And under8 the state authorization, there's no9 regulatory process required?10
Okay. What13 I'd really like to see -- engineering14 judgment, I don't understand what that15 means. Engineering judgment has to do16 with a bunch of things that have nothing17 to do with bike lanes. It has to do with18 safety, it has to do with traffic flow,19 it has to do with speed, it has to do20 with sort of a bunch of -- I just -- can21 someone -- I'd like to see a copy of --22 basically I'd like to see copy of that --23 I'm not saying that you don't have the24 authority. It seems to me like if we're25 138 6/2/11 - STREETS - BILL 090746, ETC.1 going to have a process to basically take2 what is a dedicated street and say that3 cars can no longer travel on half of it4 or a portion of it, that there ought to5 be some sort of regulatory process with6 public advertising, 30-day notice7 requirement, just like there is for any8 other kind of regulation that we do9 regarding things like that.10 Now, this bill doesn't propose11 that. I'm just -- in other words, I know12 we have meetings and 60 people from the13 Bicycle Coalition show up because they14 all got e-mails and ten people from the15 community, and that's fine, but maybe we16 ought to advertise, have a public17 regulatory process and like get actual18 input.19 I mean, I've heard -- the20 number one comment I get when I'm down in21 Society Hill, people who live at the22 bottom of Society Hill, is that they23 can't stand the bike lanes, and it was24 announced before they even knew that it25 139 6/2/11 - STREETS - BILL 090746, ETC.1 was a possibility.2 DEPUTY
Well, you3 raised three or four issues, so I would4 like to respond to all of them. The5 first is --6
If you can11 address just sort of the legal aspect of12 this.13 DEPUTY
We did14 not do a regulatory process to decide15 that the street was two lanes to begin16 with. When we say "engineering17 judgment," we mean public safety, because18 an engineer has to actually stamp a plan19 and, therefore, their license is on the20 line. So when we say "engineering21 judgment," that is about public safety.22 When we decide we're going to make a23 bus-only lane on Chestnut Street, that is24 about public safety. When we decide25 140 6/2/11 - STREETS - BILL 090746, ETC.1 we're going to create a two-lane street2 with a parking lane, same thing.3
Let's stop4 the pedantics with the "public safety" at5 the end of every sentence. The process6 you've described for 10th and 13th7 Streets were about creating bike lanes.8 DEPUTY
You16 eliminated streets because of buses. You17 eliminated streets because they were only18 one lane. You eliminated streets because19 of this, that or the other reason, which20 left you with very few streets left to21 put a bike lane on, and the decision to22 put those -- so the decision to go on23 10th and 13th had nothing to do --24 DEPUTY
Oh, I25 141 6/2/11 - STREETS - BILL 090746, ETC.1 respectfully disagree, Councilman.2
Every5 street we look at, all of that is about6 public safety. If we think it's not safe7 to put a bike lane where there are bus8 routes --9
But the goal10 was a bike lane, not public safety.11 DEPUTY
No. The12 goal is a bike lane where it could safely13 be put in, safely.14
Right. The15 goal was a bike lane where the bike lane16 would be safe, not public safety on that17 street.18 DEPUTY
If it19 could not have been put in safely on any20 of those cross streets, it would not have21 been recommended.22
That's fine,23 but the goal was a bike lane on a street24 that's safe for bike lanes, it was not25 142 6/2/11 - STREETS - BILL 090746, ETC.1 public safety on 10th and 13th Streets.2 DEPUTY
Which is5 what an engineering study is for, which6 is what your authorization is under state7 law. It is not creating bike lanes. It8 is to make 10th and 13th Streets safer9 through engineering studies. That's the10 point.11 DEPUTY
I12 respectfully disagree with your13 assessment, and I'm happy to give you a14 copy of the Code.15
What I'd16 like I think is a Solicitor's opinion on17 that issue, and I'll --18 DEPUTY
And I'll21 also be seeking an opinion from the22 state.23 So like I'm not for or against24 this bill right now. I want to make that25 143 6/2/11 - STREETS - BILL 090746, ETC.1 clear. But I want -- I'm serious. But2 what you're saying also is just it3 doesn't square with my understanding of4 what the authority is, and I want to5 clarify that.6 DEPUTY
Well, I'm7 happy to do that, but I would like to8 also say as it relates to the regulatory9 piece, there is a current process for10 creating regulations that are done by the11 Streets Commissioner, which are done on a12 regular basis, require a 30-day -- I13 think it's 30-day period.14
Right. I17 have no objection whatsoever to creating18 the regulatory process to do that if that19 is the concern of the Committee. None.20
Are there23 any other questions? Do you have any24 questions?25 144 6/2/11 - STREETS - BILL 090746, ETC.1 Councilwoman Sanchez.2
I guess3 with -- all these lawyers, all this legal4 talk.5 I think that it's important,6 because we do want to be a bike-friendly7 city, and I'm glad that you offered that8 up. That's exactly where I was going to9 go, because I think there's an issue of10 spelling out a process.11 So I'm okay with what --12 assuming we get the legal opinions from13 both of them, I'm okay with a regulatory14 kind of process, not necessarily the15 legislative piece. What would that16 regulatory process look like?17 DEPUTY
It would18 lay out in regulation that would be19 published and signed by the Streets20 Commissioner as to how we would go about21 both identifying the streets as well as22 what the public process would be for23 that. So I think it could easily be done24 in regulation. And I think -- part of25 145 6/2/11 - STREETS - BILL 090746, ETC.1 what is interesting is, no matter what2 the regulation is, there will always be3 people obviously both pro and con. It's4 just the nature of the beast, and I5 think -- so that would be the process.6 We would write out, publish, wait 30 days7 for comments and then -- so the process8 would be published and become a9 regulation that the Streets Department10 would be required to adhere to.11
As it12 stands now, how do we pick these streets?13 Are they by request or it's part -- I14 know we have a general big plan. What do15 we decide is priority as these gets laid16 out?17 DEPUTY
Well, the18 priority was to find -- the original19 priority was to identify and study both20 east-west and north-south streets in21 order to create a network. We find that22 when we create a network, it pulls bikes23 off other streets and puts them in an24 organized system.25 146 6/2/11 - STREETS - BILL 090746, ETC.1 Once Pine and Spruce were2 identified and we had looked at the3 east-west streets from -- right now we've4 looked at them from, I believe, Spring5 Garden to, I want to say, Bainbridge.6 And once Pine and Spruce became a7 permanent, we knew we needed to look at8 the east-west streets to -- I'm sorry;9 the north-south streets to connect to10 them. And so we looked at all of the11 east-west streets river to river. We12 were out there for months doing the13 analysis. And so we determined that the14 best two that would likely succeed would15 be 10th and 13th. So then we went to the16 District Councilperson and then we went17 to the community groups and then we held18 a community meeting.19 So that process can be created20 in regulation.21 Once the pilot program is over,22 you could in fact do a 30-day public23 notice and get comments in and then make24 the final regulations permanent. So all25 147 6/2/11 - STREETS - BILL 090746, ETC.1 of that you could currently do under2 Streets Department regulations.3 COUNCILWOMAN SANCHEZ:4 Question: As it stands now, assuming you5 did a bike lane in an area and the6 District Councilperson wanted to7 eliminate it, is there a process for8 that?9 DEPUTY
If the10 District Councilperson told us they11 weren't going to support it, we would not12 put in a pilot program.13
For me16 the constituents and the Councilperson17 get to sort of fight that out, but there18 are, as Councilman Green said, only a19 handful of streets, and we've looked at20 most of them at this point river to21 river, Spring Garden to Bainbridge, that22 we think could safely accommodate a bike23 lane where we take out a lane of traffic.24 The other type of bike lanes that we've25 148 6/2/11 - STREETS - BILL 090746, ETC.1 created all over the place, we've not2 changed the street itself.3
I know4 we had this discussion -- actually, I had5 it with the Streets Department when we6 were looking at Berks, and I know that7 became important, because we were8 connecting Berks Street in my district,9 we were connecting Temple University to10 Fishtown and that traffic flow, and11 that's an instance where we took out a12 traffic lane, and there was some13 discussion about it. I was pretty14 satisfied with the process, but I think15 it's important that while -- I think16 Councilman DiCicco -- Deputy Mayor Cutler17 said that we can accomplish some of what18 the legislation goal is through19 regulation.20 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: I was21 going to ask that question earlier.22 Thank you. I was going to ask that same23 question.24
Thank25 149 6/2/11 - STREETS - BILL 090746, ETC.1 you. That's all.2 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Councilman3 Green.4
Thank you.5 So would you be amenable to an6 ordinance, either amending this or an7 ordinance, that basically required a8 regulatory process in the Streets9 Department just as you described that10 creates bike lanes and also that required11 that every person on the street impacted12 for the length of that street would be13 mailed a notice of the regulatory process14 so that no one can later complain that15 they weren't aware of it?16 DEPUTY
As long17 as there's some flexibility with mail18 versus e-mail versus robo calling. I19 have no objection to a notification for20 every house. I just don't know that I21 think all of them are going to respond on22 the mail side. Notification I have no23 objection to.24
Okay. So25 150 6/2/11 - STREETS - BILL 090746, ETC.1 I'm still not sure where I am on this. I2 am not prepared to act today, but I do3 think that a requirement of a regulation4 where there is 30 days' notice and5 official action is taken somewhere is6 important as a part of a process to make7 sure we don't get complaints later that8 there wasn't a public process.9 DEPUTY
And I am10 assuming that that is when there will11 become a permanent bike lane versus a12 pilot program.13
No. I think14 there should be a regulatory process for15 a pilot program.16 DEPUTY
There is17 a process for it. If there is -- there's18 nothing in this current bill that talks19 at all about that. These are --20
I'm sorry.21 Your testimony said that -- or in22 response to your question to Councilman23 Greenlee, you said that it wasn't clear24 that you would be able to have a pilot25 151 6/2/11 - STREETS - BILL 090746, ETC.1 program --2 DEPUTY
It isn't,3 and one of the things I was wanting to do4 was to make it clear. You can't -- I5 guess you could -- I'd have to check the6 last piece. I don't know that there is a7 requirement or a process for a pilot8 program, but I certainly will check that.9 And I would like the ordinance to10 differentiate between creating a11 permanent bike lane and going through a12 neighborhood process and doing a pilot13 program.14
Okay. I15 mean, for myself I'll be looking forward16 to opinions from the City Solicitor.17 I'll request an opinion of the state.18 That's where I am right now.19 Thank you.20 DEPUTY
Yeah.21 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Do you22 have any plans for a bike lane in the23 vicinity of the Federal Courthouse? I'm24 concerned that someone with a bike and25 152 6/2/11 - STREETS - BILL 090746, ETC.1 saddle bags could just right up that2 handicap ramp and --3 DEPUTY
I share4 your concern, Councilman.5 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Please,6 from now until -- well, from now until7 the 31st of December, let the other guy8 worry about that.9 DEPUTY
Are you10 asking me to do a pilot program?11 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: No, no.12 We would put a sign up, bikes with saddle13 bags prohibited or something like that.14 Councilman Green.15
I'm sorry.16 10th and 13th Street, what is your17 current schedule?18 DEPUTY
We will19 implement at the end of June. It's a20 six-month pilot, and then we've committed21 to go back to the community.22
And so23 regardless of what we do, you'll commit24 to a published regulatory process for25 153 6/2/11 - STREETS - BILL 090746, ETC.1 that at the end of the six-month trial2 period?3 DEPUTY MAYOR CUTLER:4 Absolutely.5
Assuming you10 decide it's a good idea.11 DEPUTY MAYOR CUTLER:12 Absolutely.13
Thank you.14 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Councilman15 Greenlee.16
Mr.17 Chairman, given some of the sentiments18 we've heard and the purpose of trying to19 work things out and not be here all20 night, I will hold this bill. I request21 this bill be held for either amendments22 to this bill or possible introduction of23 another.24 Thank you.25 154 6/2/11 - STREETS - BILL 090746, ETC.1 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: So noted.2 Thank you.3 Thank you for your testimony.4 DEPUTY
Thank5 you.6 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Any other7 witnesses? The bill is being held, so --8 yes, sir. You need to come up, identify9 yourself for the record, please.10
My name is Timothy11 Carey. I live at 715 Pine Street.12 When you hold the bill, I would13 like to see those bike lanes on 10th and14 13th.15 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: They're16 being -- they are going --17
They are going to18 go forward even though you hold the bill?19 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Yes, they20 are.21
We're not25 155 6/2/11 - STREETS - BILL 090746, ETC.1 taking action on the bill, so nothing2 happens.3
So I5 don't see the need for any other6 testimony unless --7
I mean,10 we're holding the bill, so there would11 have to be another hearing anyway.12
Okay. Well,13 my name is Sarah Clark Stuart with14 Bicycle Coalition. I want to thank you15 for holding the bill. We're delighted,16 and we hope to work with the17 Administration and the Council on this18 forthcoming new ordinance, but we are19 very glad to hear that this bill will be20 held.21 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Thank you.22 COUNCILMAN GREEN:23 Mr. Chairman, I would like to request24 that we stop taking testimony --25 156 6/2/11 - STREETS - BILL 090746, ETC.1
I'm sorry.4 Councilman Greenlee has agreed to hold5 the bill. I'd like to request that we6 stop taking testimony.7 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: I will.8 The only thing I'd say, that these folks9 have been here for --10
I11 understand.12 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: -- quite a13 few hours, and out of respect to them, I14 just -- I think you might be the last15 one.16 Anyone else want to testify?17 (No response.)18 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: We'll let19 this gentleman finish.20
Certainly.21 I thank you for the Sergeant-at-Arms and22 I want to talk about process. I went to23 the hearing on 10th and 13th. I went to24 Jefferson University and I talked.25 157 6/2/11 - STREETS - BILL 090746, ETC.1 For this process, I came here2 before 2:00 p.m. I waited for two and a3 half hours to be able to testify.4 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: You can5 testify.6
Then the7 bill is held. So if we're talking about8 an open, transparent and9 easy-to-deal-with process for the10 community, I live in Bella Vista, your11 district. I think it's important that we12 have a process that's easy for people to13 deal with, not one where it changes at14 the last minute.15 I thought the (unintelligible)16 in the Streets Department did a great job17 on 10th and 13th Street. Both people for18 and against the lanes came out to19 testify. It wasn't just Bike Coalition20 members, and that was a good process.21 This has not been a good process. And22 now that the bill is held, I'll have to23 come back again if I want to comment on24 it.25 158 6/2/11 - STREETS - BILL 090746, ETC.1 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: If the2 bill gets called up again. We don't even3 know if it will ever get called up.4
Sure. And I5 want to thank you all for your time.6 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Thank you.7 Thank you for your patience.8 Thank you, everyone.9 This concludes the public10 hearing on the Committee of Streets and11 Services. We will now go into the public12 meeting.13 I would ask as you're leaving,14 ladies and gentlemen, if you could be a15 little bit quiet. We're still in session16 here.17 The Chair recognizes Councilman18 Greenlee.19
Thank20 you, Mr. Chairman. I move that the21 following bills be reported out of this22 Committee with a favorable23 recommendation, that the rules of Council24 be suspended to allow for first reading25 159 6/2/11 - STREETS - BILL 090746, ETC.1 at our next session of Council: Bill2 Nos. 090746, 110226, 110258, 259, 298,3 299, 300, 301, 310, 311, 364, 365, 366,4 368, 378, 393, 435, 436, 437, 438, 439.5 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: I move6 that the bills that have just been read7 into the record with the exception of8 Bill No. 110259 be approved.9 (Duly seconded.)10 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: It's been11 properly moved and seconded that all of12 the bills that have just been read into13 the record, with the exception of Bill14 No. 110259, be reported out of this15 Committee with a favorable16 recommendation, that the rules of Council17 be suspended.18 All those in favor?19 (Aye.)20 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Those21 opposed?22 (No response.)23 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: The bills24 have passed.25 160 6/2/11 - STREETS - BILL 090746, ETC.1 Councilman Greenlee.2
Thank3 you, Mr. Chairman. I move the adoption4 of the amendment Bill No. 110132.5 (Duly seconded.)6 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: It's been7 properly moved and seconded that the8 amendment to Bill No. 110132 be approved.9 All in favor?10 (Aye.)11 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Those12 opposed?13 (No response.)14 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Councilman15 Greenlee.16
Thank17 you, Mr. Chairman. I move that Bill No.18 110132, as amended, be reported out of19 this Committee with a favorable20 recommendation, that the rules of Council21 be suspended to allow for first reading22 at our next session of Council.23 (Duly seconded.)24 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: It's been25 161 6/2/11 - STREETS - BILL 090746, ETC.1 properly moved and seconded that Bill No.2 110132, as amended, be reported out of3 this Committee with a favorable4 recommendation and that the rules of5 Council be suspended so as to permit6 first reading at our next session of City7 Council.8 All in favor?9 (Aye.)10 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Those11 opposed?12 (No response.)13 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Councilman14 Greenlee.15
Thank16 you, Mr. Chairman. I move the adoption17 of the amendment to Bill No. 110259.18 (Duly seconded.)19 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: It's been20 properly moved and seconded that the21 amendment to Bill No. 110259 be approved.22 All in favor?23 (Aye.)24 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Those25 162 6/2/11 - STREETS - BILL 090746, ETC.1 opposed?2 (No response.)3 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: The4 amendment is approved.5 Councilman Greenlee.6
Mr.7 Chairman, I move that Bill No. 110259, as8 amended, be reported out of this9 Committee with a favorable recommendation10 and that the rules of Council be11 suspended to allow for first reading at12 our next session of Council.13 (Duly seconded.)14 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: It's been15 properly moved and seconded that Bill No.16 110259, as amended, be reported out of17 this Committee with a favorable18 recommendation, that the rules of Council19 be suspended.20 All in favor?21 (Aye.)22 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Those23 opposed?24 (No response.)25 163 6/2/11 - STREETS - BILL 090746, ETC.1 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: The bill2 is approved as amended.3 Councilman Greenlee.4 COUNCILMAN GREENLEE:5 Mr. Chairman, I move the adoption of the6 amendment to Bill No. 110380.7 (Duly seconded.)8 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: It's been9 properly moved and seconded that the10 amendment to Bill 110380 be approved.11 All in favor?12 (Aye.)13 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Those14 opposed?15 (No response.)16 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: The17 amendment is approved.18 Councilman Greenlee.19 COUNCILMAN GREENLEE:20 Mr. Chairman, I move that Bill No.21 110380, as amended, be reported out of22 this Committee with a favorable23 recommendation, that the rules of Council24 be suspended to allow for first reading25 164 6/2/11 - STREETS - BILL 090746, ETC.1 at our next session of Council.2 (Duly seconded.)3 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: It's been4 properly moved and seconded that Bill No.5 110380, as amended, be reported out of6 this Committee with a favorable7 recommendation and that the rules of8 Council be suspended.9 All in favor?10 (Aye.)11 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Those12 opposed?13 (No response.)14 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: This15 concludes the public meeting on the16 Committee of Streets and Services.17 Thank you all for your18 attendance.19 (Committee on Streets and20 Services concluded at 4:40 p.m.)21 - - -22 23 24 25 165 1 CERTIFICATE2 I HEREBY CERTIFY that the3 proceedings, evidence and objections are4 contained fully and accurately in the5 stenographic notes taken by me upon the6 foregoing matter on June 2, 2011, and that7 this is a true and correct transcript of same.8 9 10 11 12 --------------------13 MICHELE L. MURPHY14 RPR-Notary Public15 16 17 18 (The foregoing certification of this19 transcript does not apply to any reproduction20 of the same by any means, unless under the21 direct control and/or supervision of the22 certifying reporter.)23 24 25