We're going13 to let you off. That's as close as we're14 going to get.15
Fernando,16 would you like to add something? Just17 identify yourself for the record, please.18
Fernando Jones,19 Chairperson of the Youth Commission.20 I don't want to really21 associate myself specifically with the22 Commission. I think it's more important23 as a personal view how I view the curfew.24 But working with the Commission, I do25 107 10/12/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - BILL 1106331 have access to speak to youth in the City2 as well as my peers on the Commission,3 and we all agree with having a curfew.4 We think that over the summer, it worked5 out effectively.6 At the same time, there's7 always going to be dissenting ideas about8 any kind of legislation that comes up,9 and some of those concerns that came up10 were the fact that I think -- I believe11 in the old law, the hours were extended12 on the weekends, and maybe you might say13 that those are the times that crime might14 happen more, but from the youth that I15 talked to, for several of them, they feel16 that they have that time during the week.17 Follow the curfew, go home early, but the18 weekends are the only real time to19 actually do anything, whether it's going20 to the movies or just hanging out.21 Another concern was the fact22 that this new bill separates23 13-year-olds, 14- and 15-year-olds, 16-24 and 17-year-olds, and one of the concerns25 108 10/12/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - BILL 1106331 was that all those age groups are in high2 school at the same time, and the fact of3 the matter is that some freshmen are4 friends with seniors, some sophomores are5 friends with juniors, and some people6 were concerned that they won't be able to7 hang out with their friends because of8 the hour difference.9 So one of the possible10 solutions to that was to maybe create11 some kind of medium to allow -- maybe12 have like 30 minutes of crossover time13 where the younger people could hang out14 with the older kids or something.15 And some of the Commissioners16 pointed out that, like Jordan keeps17 saying, we need a comprehensive plan.18 The curfew alone won't solve anything,19 and I totally agree with that. Like he20 said, we were doing the Teen Safe Zones21 over the summer, but even that alone I22 don't think will solve the problem. You23 can't expect the entire city to come to24 Erie Lanes. Like what is everyone else25 109 10/12/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - BILL 1106331 going to do? And I think it's really2 important for government entities and3 non-government entities to advocate,4 promote or even create opportunities for5 kids to do stuff at nighttime.6
I want to7 echo and thank you, Mr. Jordan, and you,8 Mr. Jones, for your input. This is9 important for us. I mean, we're not just10 sitting here not hearing you. You have a11 responsibility to convey to us what we12 need to know. And so I appreciate the13 work you do. I heard you with my good14 ear about also providing resources so15 that we don't just suppress young people,16 but we engage young people to do positive17 activities.18
And one19 thing I will say, Councilman, is that we20 have been working with Commissioner Sue21 Slawson and Deputy Mayor DiBerardinis22 about recreation. While I agree with23 what Deputy Mayor Gillison said, there24 are activities, but what we have to be25 110 10/12/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - BILL 1106331 sure that we do is make sure that those2 activities that we're spending money on3 are the activities that young people want4 to do. There's no sense of us having the5 activities if there aren't activities.6 So I will say that there has7 been collaboration on how to get out and8 aggressively engage young people to find9 out in 2011 what those activities are,10 because those activities may be11 different. And one of the things that I12 know that a lot of young people have even13 said is that sometimes we do too much14 activities, because sometimes it's not15 even about the activities. It's just16 about providing the space where they can17 come and go. I mean, if you watched18 Friends on TV, they went into the coffee19 house and just relaxed. It really wasn't20 an activity. So just like adults like to21 have places where they can go and just22 relax and talk, young people like the23 same thing. So it doesn't always have to24 be a structured activity, but sometimes25 111 10/12/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - BILL 1106331 it could just be a safe environment where2 I can come and just be a young person.3
Can I charge4 you guys with a task as well by way of5 the left hand of punishment, which this6 may be, but the right hand of fellowship,7 which recreation and education and8 engagement is. We need to kind of get a9 better sense of what -- for example, in10 my district I had no idea that skateboard11 parks would be that popular. I had no12 idea. I do now. We had one in one area13 and another area said, No, we have to14 have one as well. I'm thinking15 traditional basketball courts or hockey16 rinks. No, they wanted skateboard parks.17 So those kind of activities in18 a regional perspective that provide safe19 havens for people as opposed to crossing20 boundaries that sometimes we don't know21 exist. So if we could work with the22 Recreation Department and work with23 District Councilpeople to kind of say,24 Hey, Councilman, you're going to need not25 112 10/12/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - BILL 1106331 one skateboard park but two, because2 there's a conflict here, even though,3 yes, we should ignore tribalism and4 things like that in neighborhoods, but if5 you ignore it, it has an ugly way of6 presenting itself in the worst way.7 So if you can guide us a little8 bit on those kinds of issues as to when9 we make expenditures for recreation, that10 this recreation center and this11 recreation center are very vastly12 different, and so those kinds of inputs13 would be helpful.14
We've15 started the conversation with16 Commissioner Slawson. They've been17 extremely supportive, and I think that18 it's something that we definitely look19 forward to making sure that we can do,20 and we'll work closely with all of the21 different District Councilpeople and even22 the Councillors-at-large that have a23 concern over what's going on in different24 neighborhoods. We would love to do that.25 113 10/12/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - BILL 1106331
We do need5 to thank you both for your important6 testimony and insight, because you bring7 a perspective not represented at this8 table here. And I will put on the record9 that it was the work of my office that10 created the Youth Commission --11
-- last13 term, number one.14 Number two, so that we're not15 recreating the wheel, you should know16 that the former Rec Commissioner and the17 current Rec Commissioner actually started18 what you're advising us to do, and the19 input from the former Rec Commissioner20 was to have what are called teen centers,21 and they were -- the capital investments22 were made into rec centers around the23 City to create a space just the way you24 described, where teens can just hang out,25 114 10/12/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - BILL 1106331 watch videos and do what young people do2 when you're just hanging out off the3 streets but in a safe environment.4 So to underscore what5 Councilman Jones has already suggested,6 we would urge you to continue those7 discussions and advise, because you're8 really advising the department heads how9 best we can better serve young people in10 the City. So the work that you do is11 important.12 Thank you.13
I just16 want to add, I certainly agree, what you17 said is very valuable in us putting all18 this together, because you guys much19 understand it. I think we were out on20 the corners a few years ago, so we might21 not be right on top of it these days.22 Thank you both very much.23 Right now I have five more24 people listed. I don't know if they're25 115 10/12/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - BILL 1106331 all here. And let me just add, I don't2 want to cut off or cut down on anybody's3 testimony, but we do have to have this4 room available for another event in a5 little bit. So if I could just throw6 that out there.7 I have Bobby Williams, who I8 know is here. Mr. Williams, hi. If you9 could come up.10 Anthony Murphy of Town Watch.11 I didn't see him. Is there anybody here12 representing Town Watch? No? Okay.13 Mike Harris. Mike, if you14 could come up also.15 I see Ms. Johnson, Mothers in16 Charge. Come up. And I just have South17 Philly Town Watch. Is there anybody --18
Okay.21 It's down here as South Philly. If you22 want to come up. Just sit in one of23 these chairs right behind here so we can24 keep it moving as quickly as possible.25 116 10/12/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - BILL 1106331 (Witnesses approached witness2 table.)3
Good morning.10 Thank you for the opportunity to testify11 this morning.12 Very important hearing, very13 important testimony, because our children14 are our future, and we've got to really15 work hard for them.16 On behalf of Mothers in Charge,17 its Founder and Executive Director of an18 organization whose mission since its19 conception in 2003 has been to reduce the20 number of violent acts in our community21 and provide support, education on22 violence prevention to children, families23 and the community. Mothers in Charge is24 comprised of impassioned mothers,25 117 10/12/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - BILL 1106331 grandmothers, aunts and sisters who are2 committed to working toward the goal of3 saving lives. We desire to live and4 deserve to live in an environment that is5 safe. Mothers in Charge is working6 towards the goal of making a positive7 difference in our community.8 Mothers in Charge deals with9 the devastating numbers of shootings and10 homicides of many of our young people11 that are involved in crime every day. We12 understand while Bill No. 110633 is not a13 cure-all, it is a first step and a major14 step in keeping our youth and our15 communities and city safe.16 Our organization is committed17 to do all that we can possibly do to18 combat violence. Mothers in Charge19 believes also we have a serious message20 to deliver to mothers of young people21 that are ignoring the curfew. We hope to22 have an opportunity to speak with the23 youth and mothers who would ignore this24 curfew.25 118 10/12/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - BILL 1106331 We recently hosted a community2 forum with standing-room only titled "Go3 Get Your Kid," an opportunity to give4 parents a voice, but also more important,5 we had over 25 organizations there to6 provide support and information for7 parents who are looking for support for8 young people. And children really do9 want and need serious structure and rules10 in their lives for their safety. Our11 main goal is that mothers don't continue12 to join our organization because they've13 lost a son, a daughter or loved one to14 violence, and we don't want to continue15 to see juveniles housed at Philadelphia16 Industrial Correctional Center or the17 Youth Study Center because of bad choices18 and decisions.19 So, yes, whatever we can do as20 an organization to support the amendments21 that are contained in Bill No. 110633,22 Mothers in Charge pledges our support,23 but also to support the children.24 Thank you for providing me the25 119 10/12/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - BILL 1106331 opportunity to testify, and I'll be happy2 to answer any questions. If there could3 be given an opportunity once again to be4 concerned with the children's whereabouts5 on any given day, I am sure that most of6 the women in our organization would7 choose an extended curfew to help save a8 life.9
Thank10 you, Ms. Johnson. I appreciate it very11 much, and thank you for all you do and12 your organization does.13 I don't know if anybody will14 have any question, but why don't we hear15 from everyone, and then if there's16 questions, it might be for generally.17 Mr. Harris.18
Good morning,19 Councilman Greenlee. My name is Mike20 Harris. I am the Director of Field21 Operations for the Philadelphia22 Anti-Drug/Anti-Violence Network. Our23 agency has been in existence now for the24 past 22 years, and prior to that, we were25 120 10/12/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - BILL 1106331 better known as the Crisis Intervention2 Network.3 We are here to try to also4 stand to support Bill 110633. As all of5 us have seen firsthand or watched the6 news on TV or heard it on the radio, we7 were very disturbed and terrified by the8 actions and behavior of some of our youth9 which were displayed on our streets this10 past summer. Most of the youth that were11 involved were under the curfew age. I12 believe that the approach to amend and to13 pass the bill will be a step in the right14 direction for the climate and safety,15 first for our youth but also for the16 future of our city and other great17 citizens that live here.18 But let me also say this, that19 I also recognize that government alone is20 not the final answer and government alone21 cannot resolve this problem alone, but I22 also know that this is a step in the23 right direction.24 But I say in closing, together25 121 10/12/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - BILL 1106331 we can make a difference in the lives and2 especially of our youth, who are our most3 valuable resource in our city. So I4 thank you very much.5
Thank6 you, Mr. Harris. Also thank you for all7 the work your organization does.8 Mr. Williams, good to see you.9 I usually see you in my office. Good to10 see you here. You can identify yourself11 for the record and proceed.12
My name is Bobby13 Williams. I'm a community activist14 almost 58 years, and so sitting here15 today listening, God bless all the things16 that this young man is saying and this17 young lady.18 I didn't hear one time the law19 loitering. We know that that is the20 oldest law in the United States. Here in21 this city, we also have the blue laws.22 All of this is before the curfew laws.23 So I'm also in support of whatever it is24 that you're going to do.25 122 10/12/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - BILL 1106331 Also, we want to also offer2 solutions. I've heard conversation here3 about kids don't have anything to do,4 give them this and give them that.5 Everything start at home. We have to6 understand that everybody do not come7 from where everybody come from. So I8 heard here today was said it was a9 playground or a center right around the10 corner, but they didn't know it, and11 that's very true throughout this whole12 City of Philadelphia. We have provided a13 lot of the things. I heard 1801 Vine14 Street. It brung my mind to Saint Gabe,15 Glen Mills.16 We have so many tools already17 that we, parents, kids, do not take -- we18 do not go to those places to get the help19 that we need. We do not listen. So we20 want to offer a lot of solutions. One of21 them, the first one would be that we22 would start cleaning up where we live,23 block by block, individual by individual,24 whether or not you own your home, whether25 123 10/12/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - BILL 1106331 or not you're in an apartment, whether or2 not you're buying a home. We believe3 that that's what we should do. We4 believe that that would help curb some of5 the flash mobs. We believe it would cut6 down on a lot of the crime.7 Also, we believe spiritually8 that we should do the moral expect, as a9 lot of us do. We have to come about10 doing those things.11 And I just want to thank you12 for this time today, and we about the13 solution part. We support the bill 10014 percent. Thank you.15
Thank16 you, Mr. Williams. Thank you for coming17 down.18 Sir, if you'd like to come19 forward in one of those seats.20 Is there anyone else here to21 testify on this bill?22 (No response.)23
Okay.24 Great.25 124 10/12/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - BILL 1106331 You'll be our wrap-up act2 there. If you could identify yourself3 for the record.4
My name is Fred5 Manfred. I'm with the Bella Vista Town6 Watch organization, secretary there.7 We are here to support the8 curfew. We want to support it9 unanimously. In fact, last night I10 attended a PSA-1 meeting within the11 Hawthorne neighborhood. There were12 30-some neighbors in attendance, all who13 energetically supported the curfew. We14 have seen a very positive result from the15 curfew, particularly along our section of16 South Street. There's been far less17 grouping and ponding of youth. And I18 don't even say teenagers, because we have19 seen it younger than teenagers. And we20 have seen more of our neighbors coming21 out. We've seen young professionals. We22 have seen families strolling along South23 Street taking advantage of the commerce.24 So we are just here to support25 125 10/12/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - BILL 1106331 the curfew.2
And let3 me just ask you, sir, based on kind of4 the question I asked of Ms. Roper. It's5 my position there has been enough6 problems with young people,7 unfortunately. Obviously it's not all8 young people, but you live in that area.9 Have you seen what -- I mean, it's10 obviously not a small amount, right? I11 mean, you've seen a sizable amount of12 young people that unfortunately have13 caused some problems.14
And young people15 themselves, it's not the problem. The16 problem is the sense of aimlessness. I17 mean, you can sense that they're just not18 there for an objective. They're not19 there to participate in our restaurants20 or those kinds of things. They're just21 grouping and ponding and, therefore,22 keeping others, like myself, away from23 the South Street area.24
I got25 126 10/12/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - BILL 1106331 you. Thank you very much, sir.2
Again, no4 one else here to testify on this bill?5 (No response.)6
Thank7 you. That will conclude our public8 hearing, and in just a few minutes, we9 will go -- hopefully just about a10 minute -- we'll go to the public meeting.11 Thank you. Thank you all for being here12 and for your attendance.13 (Pause.)14
It's now15 good afternoon. Thank you for waiting.16 Sorry for the delay. We have a quorum17 for our meeting, including Council18 President Verna, and I would recognize19 Councilwoman Reynolds Brown regarding an20 amendment to this bill.21
Yes,22 Mr. Chairman. In response to a number of23 legitimate concerns raised by members of24 this Committee, we're offering an25 127 10/12/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - BILL 1106331 amendment, and I will be brief. We are2 amending the language that says "shall be3 a fine not to exceed $500" to "may be a4 fine not to exceed $500." And we're5 changing the number of days that an6 individual or parent will receive a7 letter. We're changing that from ten8 days to give parents 30 days to respond9 to a violation, and we are adding10 language that seeks or provides a sunset11 provision. "The changes to The12 Philadelphia Code, as authorized by this13 ordinance, shall lapse on December 15,14 2013," Mr. Chairman. So I move that the15 bill be amended.16 (Duly seconded.)17
It's been18 moved and seconded that the bill be19 amended.20 All in favor say aye.21 (Aye.)22
Hearing25 128 10/12/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - BILL 1106331 none, the bill is amended.2 Again, Councilwoman Reynolds3 Brown.4
Yes,5 Mr. Chairman. I move that Bill No.6 110633, as amended, be reported out of7 Committee with a favorable recommendation8 and further move that the rules of9 Council be suspended so to permit first10 reading.11 (Duly seconded.)12
It's been13 moved and seconded.14 All in favor please say aye.15 (Aye.)16
Hearing19 none, Bill No. 110633, as amended,20 reported out of this Committee with a21 favorable recommendation with a rules22 suspension.23 That concludes the business24 before this Committee. Thank you all25 129 10/12/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - BILL 1106331 very much for your attendance and your2 participation.3 Thank you.4 (Committee on Public Safety5 concluded at 12:20 p.m.)6 - - -7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 130 CERTIFICATE2 I HEREBY CERTIFY that the3 proceedings, evidence and objections are4 contained fully and accurately in the5 stenographic notes taken by me upon the6 foregoing matter on October 12, 2011, and that7 this is a true and correct transcript of same.8 --------------------13 MICHELE L. MURPHY14 RPR-Notary Public15 (The foregoing certification of this19 transcript does not apply to any reproduction20 of the same by any means, unless under the21 direct control and/or supervision of the22 certifying reporter.)23