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Minutes

Committee Hearing, February 25, 2008

Philadelphia City Council Committee HearingsFeb 25, 2008

People mentioned

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Organizations mentioned

Councilman Kenney

I'm sorry? 58 BILLS 080027, 28 - RULES - 2/25/08

Mr. Green

-- on Columbus Boulevard.

Councilman Kenney

The projections of what?

Mr. Primavera

What we're saying is that the conditions will be better when we're open than they are now. In effect, our mitigation program has technically said that we will, in effect, improve existing conditions. And, Jeff, is that your statement?

Mr. Primavera

And you're going to go through that in detail when we have our full traffic presentation?

Mr. Primavera

And you've been working with PennDOT and the Streets Department to make sure that what you've said is true?

Councilman Kenney

Can I continue?

Mr. Primavera

Absolutely. 59 BILLS 080027, 28 - RULES - 2/25/08

Councilman Kenney

Oh, thank you very much.

Mr. Primavera

I didn't think he heard the question.

Councilman Kenney

I really -- Mr. Primavera, I like you, I think you're a very good lawyer, but I really don't like you running the hearing.

Mr. Primavera

All right, well --

Councilman Kenney

I just -- I really don't.

Mr. Primavera

Well, I'm not running it; it's your hear.

Councilman Kenney

We've been doing -- he's here 12 (indicating Councilman DiCicco), I'm here 16.

Mr. Primavera

I just think the -- (Laughter.)

Councilman Kenney

I think we've run a hearing before.

Mr. Primavera

I'm sorry. The witnesses are not hearing the questions 60 BILLS 080027, 28 - RULES - 2/25/08 because it's a kind of a different environment for them, so I just want to make sure --

Councilman Kenney

I understand, and I don't --

Mr. Primavera

(Addressing fellow panel members.) If you don't understand the questions, just --

Councilman Kenney

And I don't we're -- I don't think there's any contention here at all.

Mr. Primavera

Oh, no. All right.

Councilman Kenney

I think everybody has been polite and nice to each other, and that's fine. We need to have an understanding that this "truck is a truck" is not passing through; it needs to get to a specific location. So that if I'm driving a truck for the first time through this neighborhood and I'm delivering to Southwest Philly and I get stuck in 61 BILLS 080027, 28 - RULES - 2/25/08 traffic, I'm going to turn off and go somewhere else, but if I've got to get to Packer Avenue Marine Terminal or any of the other facilities there, I have nowhere else to get there, so I'm stuck on this main thoroughfare. And as I'm stuck there, the longer I'm stuck there, the more expensive the endeavor becomes. So I really would like to have some look-see as to the number of container-traffic trucks coming from a specific port facility in the southern end of Philadelphia's port to know what the impact's going to be on the port-related jobs that are there.

Mr. Green

Understood.

Councilman Kenney

Okay? Good. Have you done -- and these truck counts have been done based on times of day and days of the week so we know kind of what's out there at 2 o'clock in the morning as opposed to 62 BILLS 080027, 28 - RULES - 2/25/08 what's out there at 9 o'clock in the morning?

Councilman Kenney

Okay, that's all been done. How long would the estimated larger mitigation efforts -- or mitigation proposals, how long would it take to implement them? I'm not talking about traffic signalization and turning lanes and things we can do immediately; I'm talking about the need perhaps for some ramps or those kinds of things. How long would it take to understand what we need and how long would it take to implement those mitigations?

Mr. Green

We expect, for the turning lanes and the traffic signals, one construction season, perhaps one summer, but --

Mr. Primavera

And that's for Phase I?

Mr. Green

For Phase I. 63 BILLS 080027, 28 - RULES - 2/25/08

Mr. Primavera

That's all that we're supposed to do?

Mr. Green

That's correct. In terms of the ramps, in terms of the ramps, we had proposed an additional ramp for southbound I-95 traffic to exit directly to Columbus Boulevard at Dickinson Street. With our coordination --

Councilman Kenney

And where would that -- where's the destination of that ramp?

Mr. Green

The destination would be for anybody up and down Columbus Boulevard, particularly to the south of Dickinson as well as our own traffic.

Councilman Kenney

Okay. Has there ever been any ramp mitigation study done in the area closest to the industrial part of the port?

Mr. Green

I'm about to get to that.

Councilman Kenney

Okay, I'm 64 BILLS 080027, 28 - RULES - 2/25/08 sorry.

Mr. Green

When we made that presentation of the ramp to PennDOT, PennDOT has decided -- and that was last summer -- that they would take the lead on any additional access studies to and from I-95 in our area.

Councilman Kenney

I will say, just for my opinion's sake, that that does not give me a lot of confidence, that they're taking it over, just for the record.

Mr. Green

I'm only saying --

Councilman Kenney

Okay? I don't mean to interrupt, but it's just not -- it's not comforting.

Mr. Green

I wish I too could control that kind of timing better, but that is a fact. Now, that also gives the City a lot more control as well because normally in these studies, PennDOT will partner with the local jurisdiction; in this case, the City 65 BILLS 080027, 28 - RULES - 2/25/08 of Philadelphia. The issue with PennDOT at that time was, they wanted to look more comprehensively to access than we were prepared to do, and that's why they made that decision.

Councilman Kenney

Let me understand. Is this access to -- for vehicular traffic to the casino facility and to the sounding neighborhood, or access to the industrial port?

Mr. Green

All of them.

Councilman Kenney

Okay. Was there any issues relative to a study of additional ramps -- direct ramps directly into and out of the port in the furthest southern end, where most of the highway access is? I-76 and I-95 and the Port of Philadelphia and Packer Avenue Marine Terminal all converge at that one section further down south than your casino site. Was there any discussion of putting truck 66 BILLS 080027, 28 - RULES - 2/25/08 traffic directly into the maritime facilities as opposed to vehicular traffic directly into the casino facility?

Mr. Green

Not as part of our effort. I believe there's an initiative going on now for additional access to that area as well as to the Navy Yard; I don't know much about it, however.

Councilman Kenney

'Cause the real problem with the container-truck traffic is they need to exit at Columbus Boulevard and then get on Columbus Boulevard, a/k/a Delaware Avenue, and go to the industrial port. If we can get the trucks not to leave the highway in the first place and be able to access the industrial port directly, to me, that's a better mitigation than allowing these trucks to continue to get off at Columbus Boulevard or at Dickinson Street. 67 BILLS 080027, 28 - RULES - 2/25/08

Mr. Green

I agree with you.

Councilman Kenney

Okay. Are we going to explore that possibility or...

Mr. Green

As I said, last summer, the decision was made that additional would be -- the study for that additional access, the point-of-access studies, the interchange justification reports would be taken over by PennDOT.

Councilman Kenney

Okay.

Mr. Primavera

And just as a point of clarification, all of this has to do with what we'll call "Phases II and III," which are, in effect, not on the table today. We don't -- we're not obligated to do Phases II or III. All of the mitigation that's required for what we seek approval for, which is our casino, is being done with, what you said, a summer's worth of work?

Mr. Primavera

And so that's 68 BILLS 080027, 28 - RULES - 2/25/08 why a lot of this is really conceptual, because it just may happen or it may not happen.

Councilman Kenney

But, Mr. Primavera, it is not conceptual that while we're spending a half a billion dollars on dredging the Delaware River, trying to expand our container port traffic in South Philadelphia, it is not, you know, a summer's worth of work to ensure that that work's going to stay there, because I can tell you from my experience in the port is that a shipping company is not going to wait for that container very long before they wind up in Chester or Baltimore or somewhere else. And that's -- that's -- they're real jobs. I mean -- and I'm not denigrating the jobs you guys are creating. I'm saying that those are jobs that exist today that we are going to invest a ton of money in to 69 BILLS 080027, 28 - RULES - 2/25/08 keeping and expanding, and all I need is a continued reputation in Philadelphia that you can't get into the maritime port facility with the additional 20,000 cars on Delaware Avenue because we need to move our company out of here 'cause we can't make money waiting for the containers.

Mr. Primavera

Well, we're in agreement with you. (Applause.)

Councilman Kenney

But understand, and I think you do, that while you're energetically defending your proposal and defending your development plan and giving to charity and all that stuff, it's wonderful, but there are existing high-paying, family-raising jobs that exist in the Port of Philadelphia today both on the longshoreman level and the teamster level that are in potential jeopardy because we haven't figured out what we're doing in Phase II or III yet. 70 BILLS 080027, 28 - RULES - 2/25/08 So we're being asked to invest a half a billion dollars in tax money -- both federal, state and local -- and DRP bridge fares to improve bulk and the amount of business we do in the port when, potentially, what you guys are recommending is not going to allow anything to get there.

Mr. Primavera

Oh, no. What I'm saying is, if come back for Phases II and III, we have to come back to this City Council. If you don't like whatever recommendations we have, you won't approve it because you're going to save those jobs for the port people. So there's nothing in -- we're making it easier for people to get to the port with Phase I, and as we go forward, we'll work with you --

Councilman Kenney

How -- I'm sorry, you've got to go back and tell me how you're doing that.

Mr. Primavera

All right. 71 BILLS 080027, 28 - RULES - 2/25/08 Jeff, can you go through that again? Phase I is what we're presenting today; that's our plan of development. Our improvements are going to make things better for everybody right now.

Councilman Kenney

Let me just get to my last question --

Councilman Kenney

-- and then you can continue and do your thing. The other issue I need you to tell me is whether or not you've looked at in the impact statement on the traffic is the impact of the new Food Distribution Center which is being planned. Have we looked at the new location of the center and what impact it's going to have on truck, vehicular, and other type of traffic in the southern port, in the Food Distribution Center area, and in the surrounding neighborhoods.

Mr. Green

As I understand it, 72 BILLS 080027, 28 - RULES - 2/25/08 the Food Distribution Center is moving to the Navy Yard.

Councilman Kenney

No. 5

Mr. Green

It's not?

Councilman Kenney

No. 7 There's two eagles down there and they're nesting comfortably, and there will be no Food Distribution Center. As a matter of fact, I've seen them. They're quite lovely, they're big -- they're nice -- they're beautiful birds, but they've, in fact, moved the center for us. So we're going to be, as far as I understand, closer to -- on Columbus Boulevard and Oregon Avenue now. So there's an additional coming and going of purveyors, of deliveries, of whatever else is coming and going out of there, and what impact are we going to have on those family-sustaining, teamster, and other types of jobs? 73 BILLS 080027, 28 - RULES - 2/25/08

Mr. Green

The Oregon Avenue area has direct access to and from I-95 via the interchange. Very little of our traffic is anticipated to use that interchange. Even without the ramp that you and I talked about earlier, our traffic is mainly using the existing northbound off-ramp directly to Columbus Boulevard, the southbound off-ramp that connects -- or the on-ramp that connects to Morris Street, and then the two ramps to the north up by the double-slide under ramp and the Lombard Circle ramp.

Councilman Kenney

What if I'm --

Mr. Green

Those are our access points.

Councilman Kenney

What if I'm a customer of your casino and I've been there two or three times, and when I get off that ramp northbound to Columbus Boulevard, I sit on that ramp 74 BILLS 080027, 28 - RULES - 2/25/08 for quite some time, and I might be from Delaware County or southern New Jersey, and I figure out, you know, I can get off at Front Street and bypass all that junk and get on Columbus Boulevard that way. I mean, does it -- what I found with people -- and you have more experience in this stuff than I do, but when people have experienced long delays, they start to weasel around to find other ways to get where they're going.

Councilman Kenney

And I think one of the communities' concerns is that the streets west of your facility are going to be the escape hatches for the people stuck in traffic. I also have a concern that the escape hatches coming to the place are going to tie up both the Food Distribution Center and port traffic south of your facility. 75 BILLS 080027, 28 - RULES - 2/25/08 And unless you guys take all of that into consideration, we're not going to know what the real answers are when Day One comes and we have a flood of or 30,000 cars. 7

Mr. Green

We've actually 8 extended our study. We go all the from 9 Walnut Street Plaza all the way down to 10 the Ikea driveway for our study. 11 That's almost a doubling of the study 12 area that we started with. 13

Councilman Kenney

How far 14 west? 15

Mr. Green

We go back to Water 16 Street. 17

Councilman Kenney

Water? 18

Councilman Kenney

You didn't 20 put Front, Second, Third and then 21 Moyamensing and Fourth? 22

Mr. Green

No, no, we did not. 23

Councilman Kenney

Well, 24 that's where the -- that's where 25 they're going to go. 76 BILLS 080027, 28 - RULES - 2/25/08

Councilman Dicicco

You have to put Front Street in that study.

Councilman Kenney

But that's where they're going to go. I mean if I -- look, I hope all of your mitigations work, I really do. I hope they're very successful. Phase I doesn't sound like an awful lot of work; it sounds like some stuff that we're going to do to make it a little better. II and III may be something big, and we'll have some new ramps and things like that. But let me tell you something: I know from being stuck in traffic wherever, if I know another place to go, I'm going. And if I've got cars stuck now on Reed Street and on Moyamensing Avenue and Snyder Avenue, it's going to be a disaster. I mean, ride around on a Saturday -- have you done that?

Mr. Green

From -- from --

Councilman Kenney

Ride around 77 BILLS 080027, 28 - RULES - 2/25/08 on a Saturday afternoon or a Saturday morning in those streets west of Front Street. It's a lot of traffic. I mean, it's neighborhood and local traffic, but it's a lot of traffic.

Mr. Green

What I will tell, from you our traffic studies, what we have learned is that Columbus Boulevard is the major artery, and our traffic, based upon our calculations, will stick to Columbus Boulevard with the decreases in travel time that we're projecting with the improvements.

Councilman Kenney

All right. Well, I'll --

Mr. Green

The traffic shouldn't have to go off of Columbus Boulevard onto Front Street.

Councilman Kenney

You're absolutely correct: It should not have to do that. But in the event that I'm stuck -- and I do it now. I sit on that stretch of Columbus Boulevard 78 BILLS 080027, 28 - RULES - 2/25/08 from Washington Avenue to Catharine Street, and I try to figure out a way to get the hell off that street and into the neighborhood. I happen to live in the neighborhood but I have to go west in order for me to do anything. I will stop now and get to a point where you can present your traffic study, but if you haven't taken into consideration the issues relative to the commercial port of Philadelphia, to the Food Distribution Center, and to all of those other things we've talked about here, I don't know how valid this mitigation effort and study's going to be. Somebody needs to protect the Port of Philadelphia and its jobs, somebody. Now, to date, no one has, and that's a big concern for us, especially being asked to invest the sums of money that we're being asked to invest in dredging and other 79 BILLS 080027, 28 - RULES - 2/25/08 improvements. And I wish somebody had not dropped the ball or, you know, paid attention before we were here, but we don't regionally do the port, but I guess now we're a part of dealing with the port. So I will end. I appreciate your allowing me to have the time, and we'll wait and see what you have to say on the traffic study. (Applause.)

Council President Verna

Thank you. The Chair recognizes Councilman Jones.

Councilman Jones

Thank you, Madam Chair. As chairperson of the Transportation and Public Utilities Commission [sic], my only question would be: To what degree is mass transportation, mass transit been included in your plan?

Mr. Green

It's a substantial 80 BILLS 080027, 28 - RULES - 2/25/08 commitment to mass transportation. SEPTA currently operates five bus routes that terminate at the Pier 70 shopping center. They think there will be enough of a demand, as a result of our facility, to add two more, and they've already thought that through. As a result of that and through our coordination with SEPTA, we have added a bus terminal to our facility, and the section of that bus terminal dedicated to SEPTA will include four bus slots for their operations. There is a second component to the mass transportation issue. Foxwoods has designed into that bus area six slots for buses, charter buses, to and from Foxwoods. They intend to operate a bus program, upwards of 55 buses a day, and that's a fairly substantial bus program. The third component of that effort is, we want to encourage the 81 BILLS 080027, 28 - RULES - 2/25/08 dialogue that's ongoing now relative to the light-rail system that we've all heard about in the newspapers recently along Columbus Boulevard that SEPTA and the Delaware River Port Authority are working on. That, we believe, will bring a lot of Center City customers to our facility, taking a lot of cars and taxis off the roads. There's a fourth component.

Councilman Jones

Are you talking be about PATCO?

Mr. Green

I'm talking about -- the Port Authority and SEPTA are cooperating -- in fact, I understand they've held a hearing already -- on a potential light-rail system for Columbus Boulevard.

Councilman Jones

Are you also in contact with PATCO?

Mr. Green

Not yet. I'm sorry, I take that back. PATCO's a part of the Delaware River Port Authority, and we had talked to them 82 BILLS 080027, 28 - RULES - 2/25/08 about a water-taxi service to and from New Jersey and along the various points on the Philadelphia side and New Jersey side of the Delaware River. And that's another thing we'd like to cooperate with them on. So we are trying to create as strong a linkage as we can with public transportation. It can only help the traffic situation by getting cars off the road and promote all of the good things that development along this corridor can.

Councilman Jones

To what degree are you going to encourage your employees to take public transportation?

Mr. Green

We don't think we're going to have to. We believe that about 30 percent of our employees are going to use SEPTA, given our commitments to hire Philadelphians.

Mr. Primavera

And A lot of people come from the area anyway. 83 BILLS 080027, 28 - RULES - 2/25/08

Mr. Green

That's right.

Councilman Jones

Thank you. (Councilman Kenney acting as committee chair.)

Councilman Kenney

Thank you. The Chair recognizes Councilman Goode.

Councilman Goode

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Getting back to the economic opportunity plan --

Councilman Dicicco

Councilman Goode, if I may, while the gentleman from Orth-Rodgers is here,I just want to follow up on one more traffic --

Councilman Kenney

Councilman DiCicco?

Councilman Dicicco

Thank you, thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you, Councilman Goode. I just want to emphasize again what Councilman Kenney said. I think it's imperative, even from the perspective of your casino, assuming 84 BILLS 080027, 28 - RULES - 2/25/08 you get a green light to operate, that you take into consideration the impact on the sounding neighborhoods, and, in particular, Front Street. I live at 11th and Federal. When I go down to Lowe's or Home Depot or whatever, but generally Lowe's and Ikea, I travel east on Wharton Street. I get to Front and I make a right; I never go to Columbus Boulevard 'cause I know I'm going to be stuck in traffic. And I hate -- I actually was hesitant to say that 'cause I don't want to give anybody out there who's listening ideas to go through the neighborhood, but that's the reality. And I had a conversation with an attorney who's a developer in the city not too long ago, and he said the same thing: How do you get there? He says, "I'm always stuck on Columbus Boulevard." I said, "Take Front Street. It's the logical way to get 85 BILLS 080027, 28 - RULES - 2/25/08 there." So if we're talking somewhere between and 25,000 additional cars 5 converging on that site, people are 6 going to find alternatives, and it's 7 going to go beyond Front Street. But 8 Front Street it -- you know, it's wide 9 from Washington Avenue, it's wide all 10 the way up north, but from Washington 11 Avenue going south to Morris, it's a 12 wide street and it kind of makes you 13 feel as though it's going to be easier 14 to get there 'cause it -- you know, 15 it's a wider street, it's got two 16 lanes. 17

Mr. Green

I'd like to go back 18 to my testimony at the Gaming 19 Commission in Harrisburg because, 20 Councilman, I was asked a very similar question, and it came out of a comment that they had received, which is exactly the comment that you just brought forward. When you get into a 86 BILLS 080027, 28 - RULES - 2/25/08 neighborhood like the adjacent blocks in South Philadelphia, the only way to do a good study is to work with the citizens there because the issue is not the number of vehicles -- sometimes perhaps it is -- but it's a lot of other issues. It's loading, it's unloading, it's parking, it's on-street operations, it's intersection controls. And we could do a lot of counting of things and observations, but I think the best way to do it is to work with the citizens themselves to come up with a real plan, and we have committed to do that as part of our Gaming Board testimony. (Applause.)

Mr. Primavera

And there's another feature. There's going to be this system -- and we didn't talk about it because we'll have it in the formal presentation, but we're going to have realtime communication, video, audio, 87 BILLS 080027, 28 - RULES - 2/25/08 with the police department, so what the police department will do is, they'll be looking at it and they can change the timing so that they can allow, you know, cars in one direction to move through different lights. So this complete high-tech, interactive system, which we're doing at our own expense for the City of Philadelphia Police Department, there will be people monitoring this, so it'll be real time. So, Jeff, that's a big part of what we're hoping to bring to the table for everybody's sake.

Councilman Dicicco

I won't go into any -- we're going to have a hearing on March the 10th, which is more related to the traffic, so I won't belabor the record today any further. So thank you. And thank you, Councilman Goode.

Councilman Kenney

Councilman Goode. 88 BILLS 080027, 28 - RULES - 2/25/08

Councilman Goode

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. All right. Getting back to the economic opportunity plan, I note within the testimony that the plan was approved by the Pennsylvania Gaming Control Board. Can you explain for the record why the Control Board would approve a plan with only employment goals but not contracting goals?

Mr. Dougherty

No, sir, I can't explain why. We followed the format that the Gaming Board asked us to submit. Our opportunity plan we've also mirrored it after what Foxwoods does in Connecticut. And at this point, it was found acceptable by the Pennsylvania Gaming Control Board.

Councilman Goode

Is it not true that it was originally intended that there would be specifically supply relationships established as part of the gaming process that would take care of the minority inclusion, and then at 89 BILLS 080027, 28 - RULES - 2/25/08 a later point, the provision for those supplier relationships was then removed? Were you not aware of that?

Mr. Dougherty

I believe that was at one point, yes, sir, that they had set up intermediates to handle certain distributions in the state of Pennsylvania.

Councilman Goode

So with the removal of the supplier relationships, which was supposed to boost diversity and inclusion for minority businesses, do you not believe that there should not have been some other requirement by the Gaming Control Board to make sure that there was contracting inclusion? If originally it was supposed to happen through supplier relationships that would be aggressively pursued and that was taken out, shouldn't something else have been taken back in?

Mr. Dougherty

I believe that the requirement for some of those intermediate companies were just that 90 BILLS 080027, 28 - RULES - 2/25/08 they were established in Pennsylvania and they were some of the larger slot manufactures that we need to deal with. I think our commitment to dealing with the diversity in local vendors, sir, we will do a very good job in making sure that happens. The Foxwoods reputation in Connecticut for dealing with diversity, sir, is an outstanding record, and we'll bring that same record here to Philadelphia.

Councilman Goode

Are you aware of any other diversity plans that were submitted to the Gaming Control Commission?

Mr. Dougherty

No, sir. I didn't review any of them, no. 19

Councilman Goode

Do you believe that there should have been a requirement in terms of business contracting as a part of the diversity plan?

Mr. Dougherty

Sir, I believe we'll make the commitment. I'm not 91 BILLS 080027, 28 - RULES - 2/25/08 sure if you're -- legally if you're allowed to put a percentage out there, but I think there's got to be a commitment from any development coming into the City that we will make a commitment to the local suppliers or businesses in Philadelphia to do business with them.

Councilman Goode

Well, you have commitments for employment goals in terms of percentages and it is legal to have percentages for business contracting. Do you have any idea as of now what sort of diversity you're looking for in terms of business contracting?

Mr. Dougherty

Not offhand, no, sir. I think we were starting negotiations with the City to develop the EOP plan, and those percentages we would outline and then work with the City on that.

Councilman Goode

So you said you looked at the format provided by 92 BILLS 080027, 28 - RULES - 2/25/08 the Gaming Control Board?

Councilman Goode

(Inaudible.)

Mr. Dougherty

We knew that once we got involved with the project, we'd be working with the city, yes.

Councilman Goode

And at what point do you expect your economic opportunity plan to be complete?

Mr. Dougherty

We've agreed with the City administration that we would have it done by the end of March.

Councilman Goode

And so there is no expectation that this committee would consider this legislation without that plan, is there?

Mr. Dougherty

Not that I'm aware of. No, sir.

Councilman Goode

Thank you.

Councilman Kenney

I'm sorry, he has a follow-up question.

Councilman Dicicco

No, no, no, I don't.

Councilman Kenney

Okay. 93 BILLS 080027, 28 - RULES - 2/25/08 Councilwoman Brown, do you have a question?

Councilwoman Brown

Yes.

Councilman Kenney

Yes, Councilwoman Brown.

Councilwoman Brown

Good morning, gentlemen.

Mr. Dougherty

Good morning.

Councilwoman Brown

Also, not having had the benefit of this document, let me do a follow-up to Councilman Jones' question regarding transportation, and then I'll get to my interests. Councilman Jones, who had to leave, indicated that -- or had the inquiry, have you ever considered incentivizing employees to use public transportation? Because in doing that, it just might help in removing X-number of cars off the streets, period.

Mr. Dougherty

Yes, ma'am, we've had some discussions internally; 94 BILLS 080027, 28 - RULES - 2/25/08 we've not made any formal decisions yet. But do we supply the tokens or various methods that we can have to encourage our employees to use SEPTA, we're having those conversations; we have not made a decision at this point.

Councilwoman Brown

Okay. And what's the prognosis of those discussions?

Mr. Dougherty

I think it's in very --

Councilwoman Brown

Do you have a track record at all in other cities of having incentivized employees for mass transit?

Mr. Dougherty

To help take those cars off the street, yes, ma'am. I think it's a positive thing we need to do. And, at this point, like I said, we're working out the economics, how we see that working.

Councilwoman Brown

Okay. 95 BILLS 080027, 28 - RULES - 2/25/08

Mr. Dougherty

I believe it's something we will be doing somehow, some way, but I can't give you any details at this point.

Councilwoman Brown

Okay. A number of us on City Council, in addition to being deeply concerned about EOP plans, and we all pay attention to those numbers, a number of us now pay a keen interest to being green and going green and building green, so with -- and I haven't had the benefit of this document. Is there any discussion in the document about building green?

Mr. Dougherty

Yes, ma'am. We're LEED-certified. We've committed to spending roughly about a million dollars for a partial green roof and a cool roof.

Councilwoman Brown

Any -- a green roof and a what?

Mr. Dougherty

A cool roof.

Mr. Primavera

A cool roof. I 96 BILLS 080027, 28 - RULES - 2/25/08 had not heard of it before.

Councilwoman Brown

Does that mean solar?

Mr. Dougherty

I'm sorry, ma'am?

Councilwoman Brown

I'm sorry. That's a new term, that's --

Mr. Primavera

That's new to me too.

Mr. Dougherty

Right.

Mr. Primavera

Can you tell us what that is?

Mr. Dougherty

I would like to get one of the a engineers to come over who could probably give a better description of it.

Councilwoman Brown

We'd be happy to hear about that.

Councilman Kenney

Blondell, I think it's more a white roof than a black-tar roof.

Councilwoman Brown

Oh, really?

Councilman Kenney

You know, 97 BILLS 080027, 28 - RULES - 2/25/08 reflective instead of absorbing the heat.

Councilwoman Brown

Got it. What about solar roofs?

Mr. Primavera

No, that I don't think we have. (Witness comes forward.)

Mr. Primavera

This is Mark Brodsky, who, in a minute or two, is going to do the formal presentation. He's with EwingCole, one of the largest engineering and architectural companies. They're based in Philadelphia. Mark, can you just tell us what the cool roof is and about your LEED program.

Councilman Kenney

Please identify yourself for the record.

Mr. Brodsky

My name is Mark Brodsky. I work for EwingCole. I'm the project manager for Foxwoods. Our entire facility is covered with a cool roof; that is an 98 BILLS 080027, 28 - RULES - 2/25/08 energy-saving roof that reflects absorbed heat, and that alone gives us the LEED points that we would need for that component of the building. In response to the interests of the City through the Planning Commission, we added a vegetative roof for both the appearance and really a statement about Philadelphia as a green city. It doesn't really add to our energy efficiency or give us any LEED points.

Councilman Kenney

What it does do, however, is, it's going to change the calculations potentially for your storm-water management costs. So in the end, the green roof does -- once the City reestablishes or retools their storm-water management fees, you will find that big boxes, for want of a better term, are going to save a ton of money by having a delayed entrance into the storm-water system through a green roof, so you will be saving substantial 99 BILLS 080027, 28 - RULES - 2/25/08 money in your storm-water management.

Mr. Brodsky

I believe that's generally the case, and I'll defer to the civil engineers because they know a whole lot more than I do, but my belief is that because of the storm-water management system that we have onsite, regardless of the roof, that that delay is already part of our system, as you know. We don't burden the public storm-water system.

Councilman Kenney

Okay. I'm sorry. Councilwoman Brown.

Councilwoman Brown

Thank you. Thank you, Councilman.

Councilman Kenney

My pleasure.

Councilwoman Brown

That's it with regards to questions around building green. Thank you, sir. Can someone speak to, if you would, one good news that came out of the building of the Convention Center 100 BILLS 080027, 28 - RULES - 2/25/08 was around employment and training, getting Philadelphia residents in the pipeline and, in some instances, a career path in the hospitality industry. Any discussion or consideration of that with Foxwoods? Any track record of having done that in other cities?

Mr. Dougherty

Yes, ma'am. We've had numerous discussions with organizations throughout the City of Philadelphia: OIC, SEEP, Congresso, CSI, who deals with disadvantaged people, some of the vet programs. We've made initial contacts with each of them. They're all very willing to deal with us and work with us, as are we willing to work with them moving forward.

Councilwoman Brown

Okay. And so what does that mean? Is there a willingness, is there a commitment to have some level of employment and 101 BILLS 080027, 28 - RULES - 2/25/08 training with local nonprofits around the ultimate building-out of this casino?

Mr. Dougherty

Yes, ma'am.

Councilwoman Brown

Thank you for your testimony.

Mr. Brodsky

Thank you.

Councilwoman Brown

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Mr. Primavera

You know, one of things that we want to encourage City Council to look into are vendor programs, and I think Councilman Goode mentioned it. Anyone who does business with the casino has to be approved by the Casino Control Board. In other areas of the country, many companies have been loath to do that because it is a very complex process of application, interview, and scrutiny. That has hurt minorities because they have not been anxious to deal with that level of bureaucracy. 102 BILLS 080027, 28 - RULES - 2/25/08 We have said that we would like for the City to help us in encouraging minority and small business. Don't be afraid of this scrutiny. There's a huge amount of vending and contracting, and we need to encourage companies to look at this as an opportunity, not as government looking over your shoulder.

Councilwoman Brown

Sure.

Mr. Primavera

So we need to work with City Council and other groups so that we don't have the experience that other people have had, where you say, Gee, where are these opportunities to contract?

Councilwoman Brown

A follow-up, Mr. Chairman.

Councilman Kenney

Yep.

Councilwoman Brown

So have you had a chance to think through what work with City Council means strategically?

Mr. Primavera

Well, we're 103 BILLS 080027, 28 - RULES - 2/25/08 hoping that we can come up with a brochure.

Councilwoman Brown

Okay.

Mr. Primavera

It would be a user-friendly brochure that we can give out and work with the Chamber of Commerce and the minority Chambers of Commerce, because the reality is that nobody wants to deal with the IRS or anything like that, and there is a lot of scrutiny that goes into this, but the amount of work that's going to be available is well worth the bureaucracy. So we'll give it more thought, but we're thinking of putting together brochures, going to the Councilmatic districts, going to some of the nonprofits. We would hate to think that people are not going to take advantage of this because they have to be certified.

Councilwoman Brown

Sure.

Mr. Primavera

And it is not 104 BILLS 080027, 28 - RULES - 2/25/08 an easy thing to be certified. Maybe we can even work with the board to create what I'll call "fast track."

Councilman Kenney

Mm-hmm.

Mr. Primavera

You know, not everybody needs the same level of security. If someone's going to be doing some type of work, you shouldn't have the same level of interview as if you're going to be managing money or something like that.

Councilwoman Brown

Okay.

Mr. Primavera

So we're throwing that out there. We'll try to be a partner, but this has come up as an issue that we need to deal with as we hopefully increase the amount of small business and minority participation in vending.

Councilwoman Brown

Okay. Let me switch back to going green again. Alternative forms of transportation. We have mass transit. What about the whole notion of bike 105 BILLS 080027, 28 - RULES - 2/25/08 rack availability as another alternative means of transportation and being environmentally conscientious?

Mr. Dougherty

Ma'am, we've committed to having public access to the waterfront, and it will be a park-like setting along the riverfront where people could ride a bike or they could job. So those opportunities will exist also.

Councilwoman Brown

So that includes actually bike racks at your facilities for employees who opt to bike?