And I have with me today Mr. Noel Perloff, who serves on our board of directors and has actually a very interesting story to tell as it relates to his situation. But before -- I do have a answer to Councilman as it relates to the US Postal Service. My father owned a little delicatessen Oxford Avenue and St. Vincent Street. It's also a home in which I have lived until a few years ago. And my father always wanted a post box because it would attract the people to the delicatessen. He went to the post master, couldn't do it, wasn't available. Finally, after our store was closed and it was just a private residence, the post office contacted me and asked for permission -- they asked the permission of the land owner for putting a post box there at that 103 6/5/01 - STREETS & SERVICES - 000658 point, after those many years of asking and the store being closed, I denied it.
I'm glad that the US government is more sensitive than the City of Philadelphia. Thank you.
At this point, I'd like Mr. Noel Perloff to say a word on his situation. He is the owner of the Country Club Restaurant on Cottman Avenue.
Thank you, Mr. Taubenberger. Thank you, Mr. Chairman for the opportunity to testify today. My name is Noel Perloff, that's P-E-R-L-O-F-F. I'd like to start off by reading a letter to the ladies and gentlemen of City Council. I've been the owner of Country Club Restaurant and Pastry Shop for the past 45 years. We are located at 1717 Cottman between Northeast High and Wilson Junior High. Over a period of years, more and more carriers are placing their boxes in front of our restaurant on Cottman Avenue. Some of these boxes hold published newspapers while others hold nothing more than advertising for cars, apartments, housing, and personal dating services. 104 6/5/01 - STREETS & SERVICES - 000658 From time to time, children in the area have opened the boxes, spilled the contents over the sidewalk and in the street. This represents an unsightly mess and a hazard to our senior customers. I'm requesting that the ladies and gentlemen of City Council have these boxes removed or come up with a suitable solution. To that I would like to add I have some pictures of the boxes, the trash that's in the boxes. We find that this prevents the proper -- our guests from properly getting in and out of their automobiles, even though we provide plenty of off-street parking in our parking lot. The boxes have graffiti on them, sometimes the students upset the boxes, and it's -- we're in a commercial- residential area, and across the street, it becomes an unsightly mess. From time to time, our customers do complain to us to see what I can do about removing these boxes and the mess that they bring to the neighborhood. I thank you for this opportunity.
Thank you Mr. Perloff. How many boxes do you have on that site? 105 6/5/01 - STREETS & SERVICES - 000658
Yeah. I saw this about a year ago when I introduced this bill. Councilman Mariano supplied some of these photographs. Have you ever asked any of these companies to place boxes there?
Have any of the people who own these companies or distribute this information ever contacted you and asked you if it was okay for them to place their boxes on your sidewalk?
Have you ever complained to anybody at L&I or anything about these boxes?
Well, did they 106 6/5/01 - STREETS & SERVICES - 000658 respond to you, did they say anything?
They said -- what I've heard back, not in an official letter, it's the right of the these news boxes to place them wherever they want, and they have no power to remove them.
Is there parallel parking next to these boxes permitted?
So if someone were parking -- and I'll share these photographs with my colleagues. If someone were parking parallel or adjacent to those boxes, they would have a very difficult time getting in and out of their war on the passenger's side.
Do you see any benefit to your business in having those boxes on your sidewalk?
Maybe the Department 107 6/5/01 - STREETS & SERVICES - 000658 of Licenses and Inspections can clarify something. We just heard that outside of Center City, it's the property owners' sidewalk. Would it be appropriate for you to call a scrap metal dealer and come and say there's things on my sidewalk -- since you're not in Center City -- and have them taken away and maybe make a few bucks on the scrap metal, recycling. I'm being serious.
And I can tell you that I have been a party to removing several boxes in South Philadelphia. We've cut the chains and taken things away, but that shouldn't be my responsibility. I think the message has to be clear, and that's what I believe the intention of this bill is, that you seek permission before you even go to that extreme. And people may violate that from time to time.
Yeah, I know. 108 6/5/01 - STREETS & SERVICES - 000658
My question is, if Mr. Perloff had a piece of metal that fell off a truck and went onto to sidewalk, you'd be able to take it away with no problem. If Mr. Perloff had a person that wanted to -- and I'm just trying to find out what is legal here. If he called a person in the community and said there's five metal boxes on my sidewalk, come and get 'em, could he make that call and legally have them removed?
Well, first of all, let's go back to the licensing of the boxes. I believe the bill that the Councilman had passed a few years back only dealt with the licensing of honor boxes in Center City; it didn't deal with any honors boxes outside of Center City. So I don't believe that there is a provision now under the code to license or regulate honor boxes outside of Center City.
So the answer to question is, he could call and have someone come and load them on a truck and take them away, and there would be no ramifications, other than somebody might get in his face that owns the box, but I'm talking about, there would be no police showing up, saying that you -- 109 6/5/01 - STREETS & SERVICES - 000658
Would you like to comment on that? Pull the chair up and get close to the table. The response is then to Councilman Cohen next. Thank you.
Jerome Balka, with the United Vendors. And by the way, they have the best cheese cake in Philadelphia at the Country Club Diner. Let me respond to what -- we go back a long way up there. There is no licensing of honor boxes outside of Center City. To the best of my knowledge, there is absolutely no reason why the Country Club Restaurant can't remove those honor boxes. There is no law which permits those honor boxes or mandates that they be there.
It's no big deal. But I would like to suggest, Councilman DiCicco, that a bill might be appropriate to regulate honor boxes outside of Center City, and in 110 6/5/01 - STREETS & SERVICES - 000658 that way, you can limit where they go and how many.
I have attempted to do that as well. And, again, I was accused of tearing up the Constitution so -- (Laughter.)
We did that bill 9 when introduced the other one and we held off till this was all done and taken care of. Maybe this time to come back and do that, that was my bill. Maybe we should do it.
Either do it your way with an ordinance or do nothing and let the gentleman take the honor boxes down.
You know, I have a problem, I'll give you an example, at Broad and Federal, on the northeast corner in front of the First Union Bank.
The people who operate First Union, they're tenants there. The owner has a lot of properties throughout the City. No one's really paying attention to it, except the people who live and commute in that general 111 6/5/01 - STREETS & SERVICES - 000658 vicinity. I pass by it most mornings, and the newspapers in cold weather are used as cushions to keep someone's bottom warm as they're sitting on the ledge of the bank building, waiting for the bus. I don't expect the bank manager to remove them. It's very difficult for me to contact the owners of all these buildings and say, Look, why don't you get them out of there, 'cause it doesn't really matter to them. I just would like to have some order out there on the sidewalk so that people would have the right to say -- when that box gets placed there, Mr. Perloff should be able to make a call to whoever owns that box and say, I would appreciate your removing the box from my sidewalk. That should be not be his responsibility to continually pay to have those boxes removed 'cause that's what will happen. I said this and it sounded as though I was being facetious. You stand too long on a corner in this town and you will have something attached to your body. And I mean that.
Mr. Perloff -- it would probably take him a week to locate who to call to get rid of the box. But be that as it may -- 112 6/5/01 - STREETS & SERVICES - 000658
But if there were no boxes and we started with nothing and one box appears and he makes one call. Now that he has eleven boxes, it's going to take him a considerable amount of time, if he can even find those people, if he can even find who the owners are.
Either you regulate all boxes outside of Center City, and you've tried, and you ran into a flak with the newspaper people, I am sure; or you do nothing and you say to these gentlemen, Get a clipper, clip it away, and take it off. I don't know which is better.
Well, I have a gentleman, and I think I mentioned this at the last hearing, who lives in Society Hill, residential property, and has asked two or three of the honor box owners to remove them, and they have refused and they cite some first right amendments that they got the opportunity -- First Amendment rights, excuse me, that they have the right to put their stuff out there because this is news. The guy's afraid to remove the boxes.
Put him in touch with me, I'll help him. 113 6/5/01 - STREETS & SERVICES - 000658
You're going to be a busy man if I give everybody your number in my district to call you who don't want boxes on their street. Believe me, you're going to be a very busy man.
Could I finish this? I would think if I were in the business of distributing a publication like one of these books that sell real estate or automobiles or boats, that if four or five vendors -- and I assume these things cost a few bucks, these boxes. I assume that if five or six of their boxes suddenly disappeared and wound up in a shredder that they'd be more careful about how they distribute them.
I appreciate what you're saying, Councilman, but those boxes are not cardboard boxes that you're picking up. It takes a considerable amount of time and energy to remove those boxes. I don't think that -- Councilman Rizzo, would want somebody putting an honor box on your sidewalk without your permission? I don't 114 6/5/01 - STREETS & SERVICES - 000658 think you'd want that. I don't want it and I want to return some rights to property owners, 'cause there's a lot of issues floating around this council this week about taking people's rights away. In this case, I want to give the rights of a property back, I want those rights to be given back to that property owner.
I just want to note that the honor boxes and the other metal contraptions, if they're not abandoned, whoever disposes of them who's not the owner may be subject to a theft charge. Anybody can pick up something if it's been abandoned, but I'm not sure that the owners of those boxes would agree that they're abandoned. So I would just suggest caution in any property owner just arbitrarily calling, say, a junk yard saying, Come and remove these boxes. You may get yourself into trouble. And that's the only notion -- Now, do we -- did I hear you correctly, Mr. Balka, when you said that other than in Center 115 6/5/01 - STREETS & SERVICES - 000658 City that in -- other than in Center City, you believe that nobody has a right to place a box, so there's no law on it?
There is no law regulating honor boxes outside of Center City, and I verified that with the gentleman from L&I.
But to maybe raise the shackles of the chairman again, the First Amendment is really not limited to Center City.
Ah, here we go. Mr. Perloff, I will guarantee you, you will be in court if you remove those boxes. (Unintelligible, parties talking over each other.)
And with respect to the honor box that conveys information, I think there may well exist a First Amendment right. It's something that ought to be looked at before anybody's urged to do things. I think we do have to find some way of dealing with this situation, but I hope it's within constitutional limits. I think it's a shame that all of these boxes appear and nobody, you know, takes responsibility for them. I think there can be 116 6/5/01 - STREETS & SERVICES - 000658 a requirement that whoever places a box must maintain it, must keep it clean, you know, or subject it to removal by an appropriate department of City government. I think maybe that's the direction we ought to move in.
And I think, Councilman, we did address that to a limited degree in Center City when we did the honor box legislation a couple of years ago, where we provide corrals for honor boxes, but I will tell you from the experience of that bill, if it were not for the Special Services District in Center City, which has a staff that goes out and cleans sidewalks and maintains sidewalks and removes graffiti, that bill would be useless. It is a very time-consuming and expensive ordeal to continue to monitor these boxes, remove the graffiti, because basically, the attitude from these folks who put these boxes out there is, nothing's going to happen to me, I'm going to do it, I don't care. They're selling a product on somebody else's pavement who may not want them to be there, and there's no repercussion for it. And to ask an individual property owner 117 6/5/01 - STREETS & SERVICES - 000658 to take that additional responsibility in not only maintaining his or her sidewalk, which is what they're responsible for, but now to take on the responsibility of monitoring honor boxes, making a phone call to make them get cleaned or removed, I don't think that is fair to the citizens of this city.
I don't think it is either, and I think that may be the responsibility of the Department of Licenses and Inspections. They have inspectors out, they monitor graffiti on buildings and tell property owners to remove it.
But, sir, truthfully, there are not enough inspectors to do all of this work. There are inspectors who I wish were citing political candidates who fail to remove posters from the last primary election. That's not getting done. There's stuff that goes on out there every single day, and if we ban it and you're not allowed unless you get permission and then the Department would agree, provided the honor boxes meet the code requirements, whatever, it's okay.
I would have to just comment on -- 118 6/5/01 - STREETS & SERVICES - 000658
It is nothing but additional trash that is put on the sidewalks of the City.
I would just want to comment on the gentleman's statement there. The Department only has inspectors that work in our 8 Business Compliance Unit, and they inspect 9 everything from licensing of businesses to vendors 10 on the street to all other activities related to 11 business regulatory. We just don't have the 12 manpower to do all of that. 13
And I don't know if 14 you doubled it if that would make a difference, I 15 rally don't know. 16 Again, why should we, the taxpayers, pay 17 the cost that we will incur to monitor something 18 that is on a person's pavement who didn't want that 19 something on there in the first place? 20 Councilman Mariano -- you have some testimony?
No, no, very simply, a lot of things are being kicked around and 119 6/5/01 - STREETS & SERVICES - 000658 we're concerned about a lot of things, but what I remember, and that was probably the last session of Council -- or was that this one when you did the other honor box with the corrals and I did a bill 6 and didn't know, then we talked, and when we went down 'em, I wanted to do it citywide, and Councilman DiCicco said probably I want to do it citywide too, but we'll have better luck in Center City if we do it first and spring out. But what I remember -- and not being an attorney, not being a First Amendment right person, and I understand Councilman Cohen and the attorneys on this board that are concerned about this. But when the people from the big newspapers came in, what I remember was, they said, first of all, we don't care about the ones that you're not buying, we only care about the dailies. The weeklies, we're not concern about. Now, I have a real problem, concerned about it. If Councilman Clarke and I started a business that sells cars in the newspaper, that's a little different than one of the dailies. That's even more different than the Northeast Times or the Gleaner. And the Northeast Times and the 120 6/5/01 - STREETS & SERVICES - 000658 Gleaner called me during that and I gave the picture to Councilman DiCicco that was in front of your restaurant, Mr. Perloff, that somebody gave me that showed that. And I said, Look, here's one at the end of my district and Councilman O'Neill's that we shared, it's a total disgrace. So we understand what -- you understand trying to separate -- like I don't want to hurt the Gleaner and the Northeast Times 'cause they're selling legitimate papers that only comes out once a week, and they don't sell 'em anymore, they save 50 cents or 75 cents, but they give 'em away in cleaners. But what does that have to do with the guy selling apartments and cars? So what's next? You know, that's the whole concern, trying to not trample on anybody's First Amendment rights but doing the right thing, but it comes down basically to you got to make sure that Mr. Perloff doesn't have to clean up outside of the store for something he's not making money on. It's simply that easy.
I'm as zealous of First Amendment rights as you are. That's what keeps us alive and going. 121 6/5/01 - STREETS & SERVICES - 000658
But are limits, just like you can't yell "fire" in a crowd in a crowded theater, First Amendment rights have limits. How about limiting, one, the number of honor boxes at any particular location and --
Well, I think it's regulation. What we did in Center City, we need as a council to expand that. I think this will all pretty much address that if we get through this, whatever happens, and we go onto that next.
And I think all of us, the business association, the property owners, my people, we'd like to all pitch in and work out what is best for all of us. We don't -- we're not going to be able to ban honor boxes, period. Let's face it. I think there is a First Amendment right, but we can do something to make it better.
I disagree on that, but I think, if you're telling me that someone who has an honor box to distribute and/or sell their product has more rights than I do and I pay the real-estate taxes on that property, we're in 122 6/5/01 - STREETS & SERVICES - 000658 trouble, we're in big trouble.
Let me tell you about newsstands for a second. The City licenses newsstands. To obtain a newsstand license, you have to go to L&I, give them the location and a diagram and so forth. Let's leave the diagram and so forth out. You have to go to L&I and give them the location. They do not have to automatically approve every location.
And neither do they have to go -- and correct me if I'm wrong, Mr. Haigler. Neither do they have to go to the owner of the property and say, We're going to drop 4 by 8 by 8 foot box on your sidewalk.
I just want to clarify first that L&I doesn't approve the location. The locations are approved by the Streets Department.
Okay, but the Streets Department, as far as I know of -- and I think it was testified to at the last hearing -- 123 6/5/01 - STREETS & SERVICES - 000658 never contacts the owner of the property.
That's correct, they don't. But they look to see whether there is sufficient passage.
Yeah, but that goes to the heart of what this bill is, in my opinion, that the individual property owner has limited rights as to what happens on his or her property, and the Streets Department, government tells you what you can live with and what you can't live with. That doesn't make sense to me.
No, no appeal, that's it. Streets Department says you meet the criteria, you fit the code, the box is the right size, there's enough place to walk. You, Mr. Rizzo, who own the property, you have no say in the process. (Unintelligible, parties talking over 124 6/5/01 - STREETS & SERVICES - 000658 each other.)
A property owner can appeal from the issuance of a newsstand license to the L&I Review Board.
But doesn't that generally happen after the box has already been placed?
No. And in fact, actually, that's a back door way to any kind of rights. I would like to say a word if I could.
Once again for the record, my name is Al Taubenberger, T-A-U-B-E-N- B-E-R-G-E-R, President, Northeast Philadelphia Chamber of Commerce. Absolutely at this point, the property owner has virtually no rights. And even, as explained by my fellow witness here, it's very limited. It's almost a back door approach to rights. So, I mean, there absolutely are no rights, 125 6/5/01 - STREETS & SERVICES - 000658 and no one in this room would ask for an honor box on their property. There's not anyone in this room 4 who would ask for honor box on their property simply because it doesn't enhance their property, it doesn't help the neighborhood. Really, the bottom line is, Philadelphia people like to keep their neighborhood clean. The property owners, the businessmen, the residents want a clean city to live in, and an honor box does not enhance that motive. There's no reason to have them without some regulation. I think really to enhance our city, to give property owner some right, 'cause now he has no 15 rights, there ought to be some regulation on this. And we are very much in favor of this bill or something like it to regulate the uses. You saw the extreme, without any regulation --
I see the extreme walking through this city and driving through this 126 6/5/01 - STREETS & SERVICES - 000658 city day in and day out. I spend 99 percent of my life in this city and I see it all over the place.
How do you deal with the existing honor boxes in front of Mr. Perloff's restaurant? After this legislation, how would he proceed? Would they be grandfathered or --
If you're asking me my opinion, I wouldn't grandfather anybody in 'cause it doesn't make sense.
But legally, they're not supposed to be there in the first place, so what am I un -- I'm not undoing anything, they weren't supposed to be there in the first place. And all I'm saying going forward, so that everyone is on a level playing field, if you want to put a box, contact the owner and get permission. If permission is denied, you don't put it there. 127 6/5/01 - STREETS & SERVICES - 000658
Is it the City responsibility to remove them? Who's going to have to them?
No, the property owner -- (Unintelligible, parties talking over each other.)
Sir, excuse me. I'll tell you what, it's three and a half years, I've been trying to get three newsstands that were abandoned, have been abandoned for a better part of six years, and I know 'cause I look at one every morning as I look out my window on Market Street. In fact, one newsstand at Fourth and Market has a for-sale sign on it. It's three and a half years. Every department has guaranteed me it would be removed. It's still there. I'm not going to depend on that. I don't want that box or any other thing put on someone's pavement without the explicit permission of the property owner. They have first rights as far as I'm concerned. Any other questions for these witnesses? I'm apologizing to everybody. I know 128 6/5/01 - STREETS & SERVICES - 000658 it's been a long day and we have a lot more bills, but I knew these would be the most controversial, and I wanted to get the other people out as quickly as possible.
Councilman, let me just address one question -- one issue on the sidewalk sale vending. This bill will be the death of sidewalk sale vending if passed.
I thought you said that in Center City, they may have some protection because the property owners don't own the sidewalk.
I know, but you're going to -- this bill gives the property owner, even though he doesn't own the sidewalk, the right to tell L&I, I don't want this vendor on the sidewalk in front of my store.
If you want to ban vending, sidewalk sale vending, introduce a bill and say no 24 sidewalk sale vending, period. Hold hearings on it and see what the public wants. 129 6/5/01 - STREETS & SERVICES - 000658
No, no, no, no, no, no, no. I did the honor box legislation a couple years ago. I spent the better part of a year and a half to two years with the print industry, PNI, PGN, all other groups to design a program that would work in Center City when my hope was to get that same program throughout the rest of the City. It is cost-prohibitive. And I said this earlier and I think I have to repeat it again. Were it not for the Special Services District in Center City and the fee structure that paid for the corrals and monitors those things on a daily basis, 'cause they have a staff that walks the streets of the Special Services District hours a day, 7 days a week, it would not 21 be worth the paper it was written on. 22 There's no way we can do it in South 23 Philadelphia, in North Philly, or in Northeast 24 Philadelphia. You don't have the community wherewithal and organizational strength to be able 130 6/5/01 - STREETS & SERVICES - 000658 to control it. And who's going to pay for the corrals, and who will pay for the policing when people attach an honor box to the outside of the corral, which they do almost on a daily basis in Center City. The special Services District has the resources to remove it. It will not -- we will not improve quality of life on our sidewalks unless we do something, I believe, in my opinion, that this bill 11 addresses. Councilman Cohen.
Mr. Chairman, I think there is a problem here that needs to be dealt with, but I think doing it with a blunt instrument and eliminating all runs you directly into all kinds of constitutional problems. There are First Amendment rights; like it or not they exist. They ought to exist, they ought to be strengthened, in my opinion. But in any event, they exist. What you've got to do is to find a way to distinguish between the First Amendment kind of boxes and the others. Do we have an opinion from the City Solicitor with respect to the legality of this bill? If you don't, I suggest strongly that 131 6/5/01 - STREETS & SERVICES - 000658 you seek such an opinion because if you just blanketly ban all of these boxes, you're flying right into the face of the First Amendment, and you're not achieving anything, except a lot of expense.
Well, I would like to see what the City Solicitor's Office says because there is a right of newsstands to furnish news to the public. It's protected constitutionally, and we ought not to fly in the face of it, but at least let's get a City Solicitor's opinion as to what has to be done.
Well, I don't have that opinion with me, but I know the City Solicitor was very much involved in the honor box legislation for Center City, and I don't recall any issues on the First Amendment rights issue.
That's because you 132 6/5/01 - STREETS & SERVICES - 000658 weren't eliminating them.
Yeah, well, then you could eliminate those that are not involved in the -- (Unintelligible, parties talking over each other.)
This is not an attempt by me to eliminate honor boxes entirely from the City of Philadelphia. This is kind of what we do with the other bill that we'll do on Thursday, diverting the attention somewhere else. All I'm saying is that an individual property owner should have his or her rights to decide what goes on that pavement. It could be an honor box, it could be a vendor, it could be -- I don't know what else it could be, it could be anything that appears out there.
It could be a pay phone, a pay phone -- thank you, Robin -- that gets dropped -- see -- 133 6/5/01 - STREETS & SERVICES - 000658
There's a difference between constitutionally-protected rights and those that are not. As to those that are not constitutionally protected, we would have the power to eliminate them.
I appreciate what you're saying, and all I'm saying, with all due respect, Councilman, this has been argued for the last approximately four years when you take in what we took -- when we debated the issue on honor boxes in Center City, and there have been all these opinions and no one has suggested that there's any constitutional violations here. That's all I'm saying.
Because you weren't eliminating them. You could regulate, but you can't eliminate.
We eliminated them on some intersections and didn't on others.
But that's part of regulation. You can limit the number of them, you 134 6/5/01 - STREETS & SERVICES - 000658 can decide how many there should be.
But can't say that the citizens of the Northeast, South Philadelphia -- and I could name all of the communities -- will have no rights to free information. Say if City papers that are given out freely without cost, you can't say the residents of that area can't have any of them if all of the property owners say no. You've clearly breached the constitution.
I'm just suggesting let's do it in a sensible, reasonable way.
And please don't misunderstand me. I don't know what information people need to know about apartments that are for rent in Bala Cynwyd when they're being distributed on a street corner in Somerton.
Councilwoman 135 6/5/01 - STREETS & SERVICES - 000658 Blackwell has sent me a note that she would request that I not introduce the amendment that she offered last week and is asking me to hold the bill. And at this time, I will not introduce the amendment, but I am not inclined to hold the bill. Any other questions? (No further questions.)
Thank you, gentlemen. I do appreciate your testimony.
The clerk will read the title of the of the next bill.
Bill No. 010336, an ordinance granting permission to PF, Net, Inc., its successors and assigns, to construct, maintain, operate, replace and remove a telecommunications system along, over, in, and under the public rights-of-way and City streets and/or to place such telecommunications system within the existing 136 6/5/01 - STREETS & SERVICES - 010336 facilities owned by Verizon-PA, PECO Energy Company, Southeastern Pennsylvania Transportation Authority, CSX Corporation, Norfolk Southern Corporation, Consolidated Rail Corporation, Shared Assets, AT&T, or other entities holding a grant pursuant to other City ordinances, all under certain terms and conditions. (Witnesses come forward.)
Good afternoon, Mr. Chairman and members of the committee. My name is Nancy Sen and I'm here on behalf of the Streets Department to testify on Bill No. 010336. This bill authorizes PF.Net, a Delaware corporation, to install underground fiber optic conduit within the public right-of-way under certain terms and conditions. The purpose of this request is to provide a primary route for PF.Net between the western City limits and an AT&T pop at 500 South 27th Street, which falls between Lombard and South Street. PF.Net is undertaking a joint bill project with AT&T throughout the entire country and includes this stop in Philadelphia. For this route, PF.Net will install eight 1-1/2-inch diameter conduits. The entire route totals approximately 4.6 miles. 137 6/5/01 - STREETS & SERVICES - 010336 The Department of Streets has reviewed the proposed route and given preliminary approval. Therefore, the Streets Department has no objection to the passage of this bill. Thank you.
Thank you. And thank you, gentlemen, for your patience. If you're testifying, please identify yourself, spell your name for the record, and begin with your testimony.
My name is Dave DeSanto. That's D-E, capital S, A-N-T-O. I'm project engineer for PF.Net.
My name is Charles Hart. I am the project manager for (indiscernible) Corporation, the contractor responsible for the engineering construction of this project from Arlington, Virginia, to New Jersey.
Well, we're just here just in case the chairman or anybody on the committee had questions to ask us.
Had I known this, I 138 6/5/01 - STREETS & SERVICES - 010345 would have called you guys earlier. I apologize. We never know about these things, and sometimes there's opposition. So thank you. Thank you for your testimony and your patience again.
Bill No. 010345, an ordinance granting permission to Global Crossing Local Services, Inc., its successors and assigns to see construct maintain, operate, replace, and remove a telecommunications system under certain public rights-of-way and City streets and/or to place such telecommunications system within the existing duct facilities holding a legal grant pursuant to other City ordinances and to lease telecommunications systems or portions of a telecommunications system holding a legal grant pursuant to other City ordinances, all under certain terms and conditions.
Good afternoon, Mr. Chairman and members of the committee. My name is Nancy Sen, I'm the engineering supervisor for the Streets Department, and I'm here to testify on Bill No. 139 6/5/01 - STREETS & SERVICES - 010345 010345 on behalf of the Department. This bill authorizes Global Crossing to install and/or lease underground fiber optic conduit within the public rights-of-way under certain terms and conditions. The purpose of this project is to provide backbone route for Global Crossing around Center City originating from their gateway location in the Telecom Hotel at 401 North Broad Street and to provide ten laterals off this backbone which connect to various other pops in Center City. Global's route leaves Philadelphia via a long haul connection with Quest at the 2300 Chestnut Street Telecom Hotel location. A majority of the route is comprised of leased fiber and existing conduit space within the right-of-way. A small amount of construction will be required to link existing and new facilities. The Streets Department has reviewed preliminary plans for the project and has no 21 objection to the passage of this bill. Thank you.
Thank you. Any other questions for this witness from the committee? 140 6/5/01 - STREETS & SERVICES - 010385 (No questions.)
Anyone else here who wishes to testify on this bill? (No response.)
Hearing none, the clerk will read the title of the next bill.
Bill No. 010385, an ordinance granting permission to Sunesys Inc., its successors and assigns to construct, maintain and operate, replace and remove a telecommunications system along over, in, and under the public rights-of-way and City streets or facilities of other entities holding a grant pursuant to other City ordinances subject to such owner's consent, all under certain terms and conditions. And Companion Bill 010386, an ordinance 18 granting permission to Sunesys Inc., its successors and assigns to construct, maintain and operate, replace and remove a ductbank for certain telecommunications uses under and in the public rights-of-way, City Streets and the Frankford Creek Channel, all under certain terms and conditions.
Good afternoon, Mr. Chairman and members of the committee. My name is Nancy 141 6/5/01 - STREETS & SERVICES - 010385 Sen. I'm an engineering supervisor for the Streets Department. I'm here to testify on Bill No. 010385 and companion Bill No. 010386 on behalf of the Department. Bill No. 010385 grants permission to Sunesys Incorporated to install a new fiber optic system, primarily aerial, with some underground facilities between the Delaware River near the Frankford Creek and the Telecom Hotel site at 401 North Broad Street. The beginning of the route is an aerial line on poles within the Frankford Creek right-of-way. Sunesys has obtained permission from the Water Department to run the route from the Delaware River bore site into the Frankford Creek right-of-way to a point near Richmond Street. The remainder of the route occupies various Philadelphia rights-of-way between Richmond Street near the Frankford Creek and the intersection of 13th and Noble Streets, where the route ends at the Telecom Hotel located 401 North Broad Street. And for companion Bill 010386, it grants permission to the same company, Sunesys, to install a fiber optics underground ductbank system between the Delaware Avenue River bore site mentioned in the 142 6/5/01 - STREETS & SERVICES - 010385 previous bill, then under Frankford Creek right-of-way to a point near the intersection of Richmond Street and Lewis Street. The installation includes a boring under the Delaware River to a location in New Jersey. Sunesys has also obtained permission from the Water Department to continue the route from the Delaware River site into the Frankford Creek right-of-way to a point near Richmond Street where it will end. The underground ductbank is comprised of eight 5-inch-in-diameter conduit with four 1-1/2-inch diameter interducts in each. Some of the total interducts are to be 14 used by Sunesys and the remainder to be leased or 15 sold to other telecom companies. 16 The Streets Department has reviewed the 17 construction plans mentioned under both Bill 010385 18 and 010386 for this project and has no objection to 19 the passage of the bills. 20 Thank you.
Thank you. Any other questions for this witness from the committee? (No questions.)
Anyone else here 143 6/5/01 - STREETS & SERVICES - 010387 who wishes to testify on this bill? (No response.)
Hearing none, the clerk will read the title of the next bill.
Bill No. 010387, an ordinance granting permission to GPU Telecom Services Inc., its successors and assigns to construct, maintain and operate, replace and remove a telecommunications system along, over, in, and under the public rights-of-way, the City streets and/or to replace such telecommunications system within the existing facilities owned by Verizon-PA, PECO Energy Company, Southeastern Pennsylvania Transportation Authority, CSX Corporation, Norfolk Southern Corporation, Consolidated Rail Corporation, National Railroad Passenger Corporation, or other entities holding a grant pursuant to other City ordinances, all under certain terms and conditions.
Good afternoon, Mr. Chairman and members of the committee. Again, my name is Nancy Sen, engineering supervisor for the Streets Department, and I'm here to testify on Bill No. 24 010387 on behalf of the Department. This bill authorizes GPU Telecom to 144 6/5/01 - STREETS & SERVICES - 010387 construct a fiber backbone network in the City of Philadelphia. GPU will be placing cable both aerially and underground. They propose a total of three routes through railroad right-of-way that are mix of aerial and underground, and the third is all underground. The aerial cable will be attached to existing Amtrak catenary structures, the underground cable will be placed in existing conduit leased from Amtrak. In addition, they propose two Center City underground routes. One route will link 30th Street Station with 401 North Broad, and the second route is a new lateral construction in front of the 401 North Broad Street building. In all five, distinct routes segments will be placed within the City limits. They are: the northern route on Amtrak catenary and in their conduit; Southern route on Amtrak catenary and in their conduit; the western route in Amtrak conduit; the Center City route in SEPTA conduit; and new underground construction at 13th and noble. GPU Telecom has been asked to coordinate with the Streets Department to provide details of the proposal to assure that the locations do not 145 6/5/01 - STREETS & SERVICES - 010387 interfere with future maintenance or reconstruction of City bridge structures. The underground construction locations will have minimal impact on the City's right-of-way. The Streets Department has reviewed preliminary plans for this project and has no 8 objection to the passage of this bill.
My name is Carl Primavera, and with me today, I have Nancy Palmer and Dave Hillenbrand. It won't be necessary for them to testify, but they've been working with the Streets Department and with Councilman DiCicco's office. This will be a great upgrading of the infrastructure for the fiber system in Philadelphia. It's going to be business-friendly, it's going to be done through a partnership, as has been testified to, with Amtrak. It's really going to be a carrier's carrier and it's going to really allow a lot of wonderful things to happen in Philadelphia. Rather than taking the time today, there is a statement, along with a map, along with other information regarding GPU Telecom Services, and I'll pass them up with the hope that Council will become 146 6/5/01 - STREETS & SERVICES - 010387 more familiar with them.
Any questions for this witness from the committee? (No questions.)
And you notice the expeditious in which we did the calendar helped you out today. You see, you're still not the last person.
Okay. Again, thank you. I do appreciate your patience. You've been here before and you know how these things go. We try, but sometimes we're just not successful. Thank you for your testimony.
Bill No. 010388, an ordinance granting permission to CTSI Incorporated, its successors and assigns to construct, maintain and operate, replace and remove telecommunications 147 6/5/01 - STREETS & SERVICES - 010388 system along, over, in, and under the public rights-of-way and City streets and/or to place such telecommunications system within the existing facilities owned by Verizon-PA, PECO Energy Company, Southeastern Pennsylvania Transportation Authority, CSX Corporation, Norfolk Southern Corporation, Consolidated Rail Corporation, or other entities holding a grant pursuant to other City ordinances, all under certain terms and conditions
Good afternoon, Mr. Chairman and members of the committee. My name is Nancy Sen, an engineering supervisor for Streets Department, and I'm here to testify on Bill No. 010388 on behalf of the Department. This bill authorizes CTSI Incorporated to install aerial and underground fiber optic cable within the public right-of-way. The purpose of this request is to provide a primary route for CTSI between Plymouth Meeting and the Telecom Hotel at 401 North Broad Street. They'll enter the City limits on existing poles on Ridge Avenue near Northwestern Avenue. The route then travels south within various rights-of-ways to Center City to the end point at Broad and Callowhill Street. The route 148 6/5/01 - STREETS & SERVICES - 010388 is primarily aerial with a small portion of underground conduit construction on Ridge Avenue between Main Street and Schoolhouse Lane. In addition, new conduit will be placed to enter the Telecom Hotel building at the end of the route. The Streets Department has reviewed the preliminary construction plans and has no objection to the passage of this bill. However, to correct a clerical error in the draft of Bill No. 010388, the Streets Department offers the following amendment to Section 1. Revise the location of the company office of CTSI incorporated to read "Dallas, Pennsylvania" rather than "Dallas, Texas." Happy to say they're a local company and I totally overlooked that.
Thank you. Any other questions for this witness from the committee? (No questions.)
Anyone else here who wishes to testify on this bill? (No response.) 149 6/5/01 - STREETS & SERVICES - 010391
Hearing none, the clerk will read the title of the next to the last bill. Who drew the lucky number to be last?
Peter Kelsen is the last one. Bill No. -- actually, we have three more. Bill No. 010391, an ordinance granting permission to Williams Communications LLC, its successors and assigns, to construct, maintain, operate and replace and remove a telecommunications system under certain public rights-of-way and City streets and/or to place such telecommunications system within existing conduit facilities owned by Verizon-PA, Inc., PECO Energy Company, Southeastern Transportation Authority, CSX Corporation, Norfolk Southern Corporation, Consolidated Rail Corporation, National Passenger Railroad Corporation, or other entities holding a legal grant pursuant to other City ordinances, all under certain terms and conditions.
Good afternoon, Mr. Chairman and members of the committee. My name is Nancy Sen, an engineering supervisor for the Streets 150 6/5/01 - STREETS & SERVICES - 010391 Department, and I'm here to testify on Bill No. 3 010391 on behalf of the Department. This bill authorizes William Communications LLC to install and/or lease underground fiber optic conduit within the public right-of-way under certain terms and conditions. The purpose of this request is to provide a diverse route for Williams between the AT&T pop at 2401 Locust Street where they have existing facilities and a second at 801 Arch Street where they have recently secured office space. Council recently passed legislation, Bill No. 010195, authorizing Williams to install and/or lease conduit for a primary route between these same buildings mentioned above for the diverse route Williams has contracted with PECO Energy to lease existing interduct space in the right-of-way. A small amount of new conduit construction will be required to complete this route. The Streets Department has reviewed the preliminary plans for the project and has no 23 objection to the passage of this bill. (Witness comes forward.)
Please state your name for 151 6/5/01 - STREETS & SERVICES - 010391 the record.
Charles Naselsky on behalf of Williams. With me today to testify is (indiscernible) McCaw, who is the project manager on behalf of Williams.
My name is Valerie McCaw, M-C-C-A-W, with Williams Communications. I'm a project manager. This is our diverse route. We started construction today on our primary route. We're thrilled to be here and we'll be happy to answer any questions.
I apologize. Still working on honor boxes. Not that you're important or just as important. How are you?