COUNCIL OF THE CITY OF PHILADELPHIA2 COMMITTEE ON PUBLIC PROPERTY and PUBLIC WORKS3 - - -4 Room 400, City Hall5 Philadelphia, Pennsylvania Wednesday, December 8, 2010, 12:43 p.m.6 - - -7 8 9 Bill 100842 - Authorizing the Commissioner of10 Public Property to enter into a license for a long-term lease agreement and other related11 agreements between the City of Philadelphia as licensor and the Center City District as12 licensee or tenant for a certain parcel of land bounded approximately by JFK Boulevard,13 15th Street, South Penn Square, and the west side of City Hall, commonly referred to as14 Dilworth Plaza, under certain terms and conditions.15 16 COMMITTEE MEMBERS PRESENT:17 Darrell C. Clarke, Chair18 Frank DiCicco W. Wilson Goode, Jr.19 William K. Greenlee Donna Reed Miller20 Frank Rizzo 21 - - -22 23 24 25 2 12.8.10 - PUB PROP/PUB WORKS - BILL 1008421
Good2 afternoon. This is the Committee on3 Public Property and Public Works.4 We have established a quorum5 with Councilman Rizzo, Councilman6 Greenlee, Councilwoman Donna Reed-Miller,7 and Councilman Frank DiCicco.8 Mr. Carter, would you please9 read the title of the first bill.10
Bill No. 100842, an11 ordinance authorizing the Commissioner of12 Public Property to enter into a license13 for a long-term lease agreement and other14 related agreements between the City of15 Philadelphia as licensor and the Center16 City District as licensee or tenant for a17 certain parcel of land bounded18 approximately by JFK Boulevard, 15th19 Street, South Penn Square, and the west20 side of City Hall, commonly referred to21 as Dilworth Plaza, under certain terms22 and conditions.23
Thank you.24 For the record, there may be25 3 12.8.10 - PUB PROP/PUB WORKS - BILL 1008421 some individuals who are here for a bill2 that probably should be heard but we've3 been running behind, the vehicle leasing;4 that will immediately follow the Public5 Property hearing, and it will be in the6 Finance Committee. So either you can7 hang around or go do something else for a8 while.9 Thank you.10 (Witnesses come forward.)11 COMM. SCHLOTTERBECK: Good12 afternoon, Chairman Clarke and members of13 the Committee on Public Property and14 Public Works. My name is Joan15 Schlotterbeck; I am the Commissioner of16 Public Property.17 I'm here today to testify in18 support of Bill No. 100842, an ordinance19 authorizing me as, the commissioner, to20 enter into a long-term agreement between21 the City of Philadelphia and the Center22 City District for Dilworth Plaza. The23 purpose of the agreement is to permit the24 Center City District to reconstruct25 4 12.8.10 - PUB PROP/PUB WORKS - BILL 1008421 Dilworth Plaza into a state-of-the-art2 urban park and open the space with better3 connections to the transportation system4 below Dilworth Plaza.5 The improvements will include6 improvements to the substructure,7 landscaping, a water feature, a café,8 elevators to the transportation concourse9 level below. The project will not10 interfere in any way with SEPTA premises11 but will be heavily coordinated with12 SEPTA's anticipated rebuild of the13 transportation systems and corridors14 beneath City Hall.15 The Administration has worked16 closed with the Center City District on17 all aspects of the redevelopment plan for18 Dilworth Plaza, including design, general19 coordination, and financing.20 Specifically, we helped to security a21 $15.5 million Redevelopment Assistant22 Program (RCAP) award from the23 Commonwealth, which will be matched by a24 $15 million transportation investment25 5 12.8.10 - PUB PROP/PUB WORKS - BILL 1008421 generating economic recovery, or Tiger2 Grant, from the federal government.3 These funds represent4 significant work and planning by all of5 the parties involved in order to create6 the best product possible. It also7 signifies the full support of the8 Commonwealth and federal government are9 for this project.10 The Administration feels11 strongly that the redevelopment of12 Dilworth Plaza, in conjunction with the13 renovation of the SEPTA City Hall14 station, will greatly improve the15 transportation and recreation amenities16 in the City Hall area. Creating a more17 attractive and functional Center City is18 key to encouraging private investment in19 Philadelphia and increasing economic20 development.21 On behalf of the Department of22 Public Property, I respectfully ask that23 City Council approve Bill No. 100184, as24 it receives our full support.25 6 12.8.10 - PUB PROP/PUB WORKS - BILL 1008421 I am also requesting a2 technical amendment to the bill to make3 clear that no part of the City Hall4 itself is included in the property which5 the Center City district will develop.6 I am also requesting a7 suspension of the rules so as to allow8 for the first reading at the next session9 of Council.10 Thank you. I'm here to answer11 any questions and to allow Mr. Levy also12 to testify also on this bill.13
19 I'm here to testify in favor of20 Bill 100842 in order to facilitate the21 redevelopment of Dilworth Plaza on the22 west side of City Hall. 9 The CCD has an executed10 contract for this grant, and the grant is11 currently being circulated for signature12 in Harrisburg from all of the requisite13 State Department approvals. 10 - PUB PROP/PUB WORKS - BILL 1008421 the renovation of Dilworth Plaza, and2 that's particularly the elevators that go3 up and down from the surface level to the4 lower levels. 10 - PUB PROP/PUB WORKS - BILL 1008421 Authorities Act of 1945. I should note2 that this is the same structure that City3 Council approved for the very successful4 Café Cret on the 1600 block of the5 Parkway, where the CCD used grant6 revenues and its own resources to upgrade7 the park and build the café. All of the8 rents from that café are pledged to9 maintain the park. 10 - PUB PROP/PUB WORKS - BILL 1008421 operation of this project. We have met2 with the City's Office of Economic3 Opportunity to prepare a formal plan,4 which we will execute. 3 Key to the success of this4 project will be the active programming5 and management of the site. Currently,6 the current plaza is a very difficult7 place to hold major events because of the8 sunken plaza, multiple stairways,9 numerous changes in elevations. 13 As you will note in the site14 plan, and if you look at Exhibit A on15 , the large area on the left side,16 which, on the top drawing, number 14, is17 shown as a fountain. This is a very thin18 sheet of water. Those of you who have19 seen Millennium Park in Chicago, it's a20 thin reflecting pool. 10 - PUB PROP/PUB WORKS - BILL 1008421 do multiple events. And you see here2 illustrations of a concert being held3 there with a stand. You see the4 opportunity for farmers markets and5 winter ice-skating. 16 I should say -- backup. 18 Just to clarify, that in approving this19 lease, we still have all of the20 requirements to get final approval from21 the Historical Commission. 10 I should note that when you11 look at the site itself, and if you go to12 the illustrations and you go to the first13 page, on , this parcel is about14 100,000 square feet. 17 But the sunken area, which is18 to the left, is about 16,000 feet --19 excuse me, 12,000 square feet. The20 oculus, the round circles, are around21 3,000 square feet. 10 - PUB PROP/PUB WORKS - BILL 1008421 to this site for events. 6 We fully expect this to be the7 place for rallies when our sports teams8 win. 14
Thank you,15 Mr. Levy and Commissioner. A lot of my16 colleagues have questions. Actually,17 what I'm going to do is, I'm going to18 defer to my colleagues first.19 Councilman Rizzo.20
Mr. Levy, I,21 many months ago, learning the fact that22 there's going to be this project,23 communicated with the Planning Commission24 and asked them specifically -- and I'm25 16 12.8.10 - PUB PROP/PUB WORKS - BILL 1008421 sure the Public Property Commissioner2 will verify that there is a considerable3 amount of money spent when we do events4 out there like the Phillies rally, the5 Eagles rally, for the portable stages --6 set it up, take it down.7 I heard you say that there's8 going to be an area that will not require9 the portable stage or the platforms.10 Could you point that out on the diagram,11 where that would be?12
Right. On the first17 page -- excuse me, on the second -- I'm18 sorry, the first page of the attachments,19 if you look at image number 3, what you20 see in that large rectangle to the left21 is where the fountain normally is, and22 that can be turned off. That is the flat23 area that will be fully equipped with24 separately metered power so that any25 17 12.8.10 - PUB PROP/PUB WORKS - BILL 1008421 activity can occur there.2 This can also accommodate3 stages; I want to be clear about that.4 This can hold events without a stage or5 with a stage, but we won't need all of6 those cables, you won't need to be7 rolling cables for various events; it8 will out all be built into the9 infrastructure of the site.10
So in the11 plan, there is -- you used the word12 "elevated area." So are you telling me13 that if the Mayor -- or if we have a14 Phillies rally, we have a X, Y, Z rally,15 that we're still going to have to erect a16 stage because we're not going to have an17 area elevated for the public to gather18 around?19
That is correct. It20 will be one flat plain, but it is21 designed to carry a stage, and we will22 have that stage as part of the23 construction.24
So it will25 18 12.8.10 - PUB PROP/PUB WORKS - BILL 1008421 still be required to --2
We'll need to erect3 a stage. I mean, this is a multipurpose4 stage, which can be a fountain.5 And this is the same location6 if you look on the third page. On the7 third page, you'll see that is also where8 the ice-skating rink will be erected.9 But as the Commissioner just pointed out10 to me, those will not be City expenses;11 those will be borne by ourselves in12 managing this, and revenues from that13 will come from the enterprises on the14 site itself.15
So if we16 want to have a rally -- if Council wants17 to have a rally for a particular issue,18 we're going to have to pay the contractor19 to have an event out there?20 COMM. SCHLOTTERBECK: No.21
No, absolutely not.22 This is City property, and clearly, that23 is what we mean by "working out a24 policy." There will be City events that25 19 12.8.10 - PUB PROP/PUB WORKS - BILL 1008421 will have no rent to be paid on the site,2 absolutely.3
Okay. Do4 you mean to say that the people that5 designed this could not design something6 that would give us that -- to avoid that7 setup and breakdown cost? Because even8 if it is -- you develop a policy for City9 events, somebody's got to pay, and it's10 probably going to be the City.11 I mean, I just can't12 understand. I mean, if you go to13 downtown Manhattan -- and I forget the14 exactly location where everybody gathers,15 there's a stage there that requires16 very -- that requires no setup or17 breakdown.18 Why can't we at least take a19 look at that and have a stage that's20 there, that requires no labor?21
I think we can22 certainly look at that. But what we're23 trying to achieve is the maximum24 flexibility in this space so that it can25 20 12.8.10 - PUB PROP/PUB WORKS - BILL 1008421 be for farmers market, it can be for2 ice-skating, it can be for the Christmas3 markets. So the goal was to have a space4 that can be actively programmed for5 multi-uses, not one use.6
Hi. Good7 afternoon.8 (Councilman Greenlee assumes9 committee chairmanship at this point.)10 COUNCILMAN GREENLEE:11 Councilwoman Miller.12
I have13 two questions.14 I agree with Councilman Rizzo15 regarding a stage. I think we should16 build a stage, a position somewhere where17 it can still be -- the space can still be18 flexible.19 We're building -- I'm building20 a couple stages at playgrounds. And,21 boy, you don't know how much relief that22 will provide those particular sites.23
And you25 21 12.8.10 - PUB PROP/PUB WORKS - BILL 1008421 don't have to go around looking for a2 showmobile or any of those big stages to3 accommodate whatever you're having.4 That's number one.5 And what about a area for,6 like, tables for people that might want7 to eat lunch outside? Or I see on the8 diagram, you have like a ledge or this9 big step where people can sit.10
As to your first14 question, as I said to Councilman Rizzo,15 we're more than prepared to look at the16 possibility for a stage. There are17 places that could be accommodated.18 As to I think what we have19 shown in the diagram and in all the area20 around the large green lawn are a whole21 set of benches. What is not shown in the22 renderings is, we will want to do what is23 done in many parks with moveable chairs24 that can be put out there. That will be25 22 12.8.10 - PUB PROP/PUB WORKS - BILL 1008421 part of [indiscernible] because people2 like to move their chairs around on the3 lawn. And that will all be part of the4 site furnishings.5
Thank8 you.9 I just had more of a general10 question, Mr. Levy. I don't know if you11 addressed this or not; I might have12 missed it. What has there been and what13 do you plan to have as far as public14 input on this and public suggestions, if15 you will?16
Sure, yeah. Well,17 we've been, through first of all, a very18 extensive process, met repeatedly with19 the adjacent property owners and20 residents on the site.21 We've repeatedly presented to22 both the Avenue of the Arts organization,23 to the Philadelphia Convention and24 Visitors Bureau, to the Parkway Council,25 23 12.8.10 - PUB PROP/PUB WORKS - BILL 1008421 and to the board of the Convention Center2 Authority.3 We have presented in front of4 the American Institute of Architects.5 We've presented twice in front of the6 Design Advocacy Committee.7 And we have presented once for8 information purposes in front of the9 Planning Commission.10 As I said, we've been in front11 of the Historic Commission and their12 architectural review committee and13 received their preliminary approval.14 And we presented, but did not15 seek approval, of this in the front of16 the Art Commission, and we'll be back17 there again early next year.18
Now, as19 you go forward, will there be any other20 time where people can weigh in before21 it's, like, finalized?22
Absolutely. I mean,23 again, we have been -- you know, in the24 last two months, we have been delighted25 24 12.8.10 - PUB PROP/PUB WORKS - BILL 1008421 to get word from Washington of the2 federal funding and of the Governor's3 commitment to that site. And so, we are4 finalizing.5 There are a lot of comments we6 got that have now been incorporated into7 the design, which we'll be more than glad8 to share with the public.9
Okay.10 And some of those other organizations11 that you mentioned, have they actually12 gone onboard and been supportive yet? Or13 some have, some haven't?14
I know that the18 second meeting we had with the Design19 Advocacy Committee, there had been20 questions in the first meeting.21
There was no vote23 taken, but I think there was -- I think24 they recognize we had made major changes25 25 12.8.10 - PUB PROP/PUB WORKS - BILL 1008421 that they had requested.2
And I3 guess -- just one last thing, just4 generally. Were any of these groups,5 organizations you talked that just6 thought it was not a good idea to do7 anything there? I mean, is there any --8 anybody that said, We'd rather it be left9 sort of an open area?10
-- who has expressed15 opposition to aspects of it, so I think16 he should speak for himself.17
That's the only one20 that we're aware of.21 We've had questions raised22 about the design.23
And this has been25 26 12.8.10 - PUB PROP/PUB WORKS - BILL 1008421 very much a back-and-forth process.2 What you are seeing is at least3 the third version of the development of4 this. This has evolved over two-and-a-5 half, three years.6
'Cause7 I'm one who thinks we should certainly do8 something there.9
But I11 just wanted to get that on the record,12 that there hadn't been much opposition --13 or much feeling that it should be sort of14 left fallow for lack of a better word.15 Okay, thank you.16 (Councilman Clarke resumes17 committee chairmanship at this point.)18
Thank you,21 Councilman.22 I had to step out for a minute.23 Mr. Levy, my issues -- and I'm24 sort of referencing them to you -- were25 27 12.8.10 - PUB PROP/PUB WORKS - BILL 1008421 operational responsibility, maintenance.2 One of the things that I'm still unclear3 is this whole notion about who ultimately4 decides what type of events happen, who5 initiates the ability for someone to have6 an event, who has final say on the type7 of events, certain criteria for events.8 I'm still not clear on that.9 Who -- 'cause I'm hearing conflicting10 information. Who -- "ABC Group" wants to11 do whatever on the plaza, and they go to12 who?13 COMM. SCHLOTTERBECK: Well,14 councilman, right now, the approval for15 any event on City property either comes16 directly from the City Representative's17 Office, depending on what the event is.18
Right.19 COMM. SCHLOTTERBECK: Or the20 City's Managing Director's Office. We're21 not going to give away those rights.22 We're going to still maintain that23 coordination with the Center City24 District.25 28 12.8.10 - PUB PROP/PUB WORKS - BILL 1008421 So as I -- the way I can2 explain it is, if the Philadelphia3 Orchestra wanted to do an event and it4 happened to be the day of the Mummers5 Parade, the parade's on and the concert's6 off. I mean, we're not giving away any7 control of what happens on the site.8
So the9 Center City District, what you're saying,10 is in no way involved in the11 authorizations of events.12 COMM. SCHLOTTERBECK: No, I13 didn't say that.14
All right.15 What are you saying?16 COMM. SCHLOTTERBECK: I'm17 saying that the City will always have the18 first place in terms of the use of the19 plaza. In other words, whatever events20 that we want, if Council has something21 that they want that's a priority. The22 ideal --23
I'm not24 talking about priorities; I'm talking25 29 12.8.10 - PUB PROP/PUB WORKS - BILL 1008421 about who -- I want to an event next week2 on the plaza, after this is done, who do3 I go to?4 COMM. SCHLOTTERBECK: The5 Center City District.6
Yeah. I -- let me7 just start with a simple analogy, which8 is on the Café Cret; that entire site is9 leased to us. At any time there is a10 City parade, barricades are set up, and11 whatever plan we may have had for that12 park is superseded by the Parkway events,13 et cetera. And that's an understanding14 that's implicit in the agreement.15 This is a space that has been16 programmed for more activities. I again17 want to emphasize that currently, most of18 this site is not usable for events. And19 just like in expanding the Convention20 Center, we are giving the opportunity for21 multiple events simultaneously.22 This plaza now has two major23 areas for two major events, if you will.24 That is, the green lawn area can have25 30 12.8.10 - PUB PROP/PUB WORKS - BILL 1008421 platforms put down over it and events can2 be there; and there can be events that3 can happen with the fountain being turned4 off our.5 It is our plan that we would6 have a regular schedule of events --7 concerts, small-scale activities that8 would be approved by the City as part of9 the lease and that there would be10 override provisions that the City would11 have. We fully understand this is a12 plaza immediately next to City Hall.13 What we are bringing is14 $50 million that we have raised to15 improve this site and a set of revenue16 streams which will eliminate costs that17 the City currently has for maintaining18 this. And yet, in all of that, we19 recognize fully that this is the City's20 plaza and that City priorities will take21 hold.22
All right.23 Well, I appreciate and I want to commend24 you for getting the $50 million. And I25 31 12.8.10 - PUB PROP/PUB WORKS - BILL 1008421 got to publicly admit that none of us2 ever thought that you were going to do3 this.4 (Laughter.)5
Which was8 why it was pretty easy to commit to you9 three, four years ago, when you started,10 "Yeah, Paul, we got your back, yeah."11
Nobody14 thought you had any chance whatsoever,15 and I want to congratulate you.16
But this is19 a significant public space.20 COMM. SCHLOTTERBECK: Right.21
And this22 whole issue about usage is extremely23 important to me, and I'm sure it is to my24 colleagues. And I asked a simple25 32 12.8.10 - PUB PROP/PUB WORKS - BILL 1008421 question, and I got a week response from2 you, Commissioner and a long response3 from you.4 COMM. SCHLOTTERBECK: Well, how5 can I clear it up?6
Who do I go7 to to start the process to use the plaza?8 COMM. SCHLOTTERBECK: Well --9
It's a real10 simple question. Where do I physically11 go?12 COMM. SCHLOTTERBECK: I would13 probably say you go to the Center City14 District.15
And I'm not16 talking about who takes priority and who17 gets to say, "Well, I think this should18 take precedence over that."19
Sure. If I could23 pick up on exactly what you just said,24 which that we have all been working very25 33 12.8.10 - PUB PROP/PUB WORKS - BILL 1008421 hard to design this plaza, raise funds2 for this plaza; and only in mid-October3 did we really get the extraordinarily4 good news from the federal government of5 $15 million.6 We're also very conscious that7 our governor is leaving office and there8 are dollars that we need to nail down.9 We fully have work in front of10 us to work out all of the details of what11 you have just asked. And so, if our12 answers are not one hundred percent clear13 at this moment, it's 'cause that's a bit14 of discussion that has to go on.15 But I do want to say that I16 have been doing this job for 20 years,17 working very closely with the City,18 installing lights, improving parks.19 We've never had one moment of conflict as20 we've worked through those issues. We've21 maintained concourses and train stations.22 We are a municipal authority23 that's authorized by the City. You give24 us the authority to act, you supersede25 34 12.8.10 - PUB PROP/PUB WORKS - BILL 1008421 our authority; it's quite that simple.2
Well, with3 all due respect, Paul, you know, I know4 you a long time.5
I mean, we7 have minimal influence on what you do,8 other than saying no, as is today. If we9 said, No, we're not going to do this.10
No, I'm saying --11 (Indiscernible; parties talking12 over each other.)13
On your14 day-to-day operations, Paul, we don't15 have any influence.16
My point,17 Councilman, was that in installing of18 lights and in installing of public19 improvements in the public environment,20 we work hand-in-glove with the City.21 No, you're not overseeing22 direct operation, but there's nothing we23 do in the public environment that doesn't24 need to be approved either by the Streets25 35 12.8.10 - PUB PROP/PUB WORKS - BILL 1008421 Department, the Art Commission,2 Historical Commission. We respect that.3 We understand that our4 authority is derived from this City5 Council and from this government. And6 so, you have our word.7 And in working out that8 operating agreement, what I envision will9 happen is, we will put together -- and10 we're talking about a day three years11 from now, to be clear, okay? That is,12 we're going to be under construction for13 two years.14 We will put together an annual15 schedule of all known events, just as you16 do for every other area, and that it will17 be the agreed-upon schedule, and I18 envision that will be an appendix to the19 lease that will be the formal schedule20 for the site.21 Just as things happen by22 surprise, that schedule will get23 overwritten, as it does for lots of other24 places, and the City will have the25 36 12.8.10 - PUB PROP/PUB WORKS - BILL 1008421 ability to override. I think that's the2 concept we have.3 I think to make this place4 work, though, its failure today is not5 only bad design and an inadequate budget6 for maintenance; it's inadequate7 programming of the space.8 This space needs to be actively9 programmed; that is what our intention is10 to do. And we will defer, when the City11 comes to us and says, We have this event,12 it overrides. I think we understand13 that.14
All right.15 COMM. SCHLOTTERBECK: And I16 didn't mean to appear weak. What I was17 trying suggest is that --18
Well, I19 shouldn't say that.20 COMM. SCHLOTTERBECK: Yes.21
I apologize22 for that.23 COMM. SCHLOTTERBECK: The24 City Rep's --25 37 12.8.10 - PUB PROP/PUB WORKS - BILL 1008421
I couldn't2 hear you.3 COMM. SCHLOTTERBECK: The City4 Rep's Office as well as the Managing5 Director's role, I don't see those going6 away. So I don't know whether the7 schedule starts out on a yearly basis,8 and then weekly there's a meeting. I9 can't necessarily think what that would10 look like or how it develops.11 But, as you said, every day,12 all day, I get told, Joan, we need a13 microphone out on the apron, or we need14 this done. So he knows that he has to be15 flexible. And we know that when we make16 our agreement and we go into that level17 of detail, we will always maintain site18 control. I mean, we will have the final19 say on what happens.20
Okay.21 COMM. SCHLOTTERBECK: Whether22 it's Public Property Commissioner,23 whether it's the City Rep or Managing24 Director, there has to be coordination.25 38 12.8.10 - PUB PROP/PUB WORKS - BILL 1008421 And as he said, I've worked on many2 projects with the Center City District,3 and the coordination is there, and they4 have always yielded when we said it can't5 happen.6 And I just -- I don't -- I7 don't -- right now, I don't foresee a8 problem. I don't know all of the9 answers, as Paul said, because we're10 talking three years from now.11
Well, I12 understand that and I respect that.13 COMM. SCHLOTTERBECK: Yeah.14
And I15 respect both of you all's positions in16 the City and tenure. And I agree that17 getting a final authorization on funding18 in October gives you minimal time to19 craft all of the necessary agreements.20 But we come -- two weeks ago,21 an ordinance comes to Council for22 introduction, so we have less time to23 make a decision on something that you've24 been working on for quite some time.25 39 12.8.10 - PUB PROP/PUB WORKS - BILL 1008421 COMM. SCHLOTTERBECK:2 Understood.3
So you4 understand why I'm asking these questions5 now.6 COMM. SCHLOTTERBECK: Yep.7
Based on8 the requested schedule, the first hearing9 is today, and I know a lot of my10 colleagues haven't seen any of this. A11 couple of 'em, maybe ones that, you know,12 represent parts closer to the Center City13 may have seen glimpses of it.14
So to ask16 them to say okay -- and, you know, I know17 it's -- a whole District Council18 prerogative thing works most times, but,19 you know, this is City Hall.20 COMM. SCHLOTTERBECK: I --21
Let me25 40 12.8.10 - PUB PROP/PUB WORKS - BILL 1008421 finish.2 COMM. SCHLOTTERBECK: Yeah,3 yeah.4
And, you5 know, obviously, we don't want to be in a6 position where we're going to lose the7 opportunity to get $45 million in8 external funding for a plaza that most9 people think that it's, you know, a10 marked improvement.11 My issue is -- is anyone from12 the Law Department here?13 COMM. SCHLOTTERBECK: Yes.14 Yes, John Mondlak's here.15 (Witness comes forward.)16
I bet you22 never thought you were going to be here23 today, right?24
I was hoping not,25 41 12.8.10 - PUB PROP/PUB WORKS - BILL 1008421 but here I am.2 (Laughter.)3
I heard6 you're quite skilled.7 Question: Understanding the8 timeline associated with being able to9 craft all of the specifics of the10 operating agreements, if a provision were11 put in this particular ordinance that the12 ordinance moved ahead, showing site13 control, but there was a provision that14 would say certain aspects of the15 operations were subject to completion of16 a separate document, which would be the17 operational agreement, were put in here,18 do you think that that would affect or19 negatively impact this particular bill?20
I get the24 concept, but specifically the operational25 42 12.8.10 - PUB PROP/PUB WORKS - BILL 1008421 agreement that you were envisioning is2 beyond the lease. That clearly has to be3 negotiated and signed.4
See, that's5 what I'm not clear, 'cause I'm hearing6 that and understanding --7 (Indiscernible; parties talking8 over each other.)9
But we're10 being asked to pass something without11 that language in it. And I'm sure we're12 going to all agree with it probably, but13 I'm saying, if there could be a reference14 to that in this particular bill.15 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Point of16 order?17
Sure.18 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Could19 something be crafted similar to what we20 do with other bills when there is a21 community association involved where we22 do a community benefits agreement,23 something crafted similar to that, that24 would give -- it's legal, it has standing25 43 12.8.10 - PUB PROP/PUB WORKS - BILL 1008421 and teeth. I'm just curious is that2 would be an easier way.3
The City has4 tried to move away from agreements with5 community groups in the last couple of6 years just because of the problems they7 come up with in enforcement.8 I hear what you're saying; I'm9 just not sure.10 What we intend to do is flesh11 out all of that. What you're saying is,12 you want to see that level of detail.13 COUNCILMAN CLARKE:14 Understanding that that's not available15 today and probably won't be available by16 the passage of the bill, but if there was17 some reference that that was going to be18 forthcoming and the terms of that19 agreement were referenced in the bill and20 maybe the terms of that agreement shall21 be signed off by whomever -- a resolution22 by Council or whatever -- I just need23 some assurances that, you know --24
That you're25 44 12.8.10 - PUB PROP/PUB WORKS - BILL 1008421 satisfied with the terms, with the2 detail.3
Could I make a7 suggestion? I mean, I'm not the attorney8 here, but it seems to me -- I've always9 envisioned that this lease has an10 appendix, which is called "The Operating11 Agreement" or "Calendar," and that we12 have no problem in the next couple of13 weeks putting together to the best of our14 judgment all of the scheduled events that15 we know the City has usually but on that16 location, the ones that we're17 envisioning, and we'll call that "The18 Preliminary Agreement."19 And as we get two or three20 years down the road, we will know that21 that will be a document that's amended,22 but it will be the operating calendar of23 the plaza.24
I'm not25 45 12.8.10 - PUB PROP/PUB WORKS - BILL 1008421 necessarily concerned about the calendar.2
You're not3 concerned about events; you're concerned4 about --5 (Indiscernible; parties talking6 over each other.)7
I just want8 to make sure who's -- I'm still not9 clear, first of all, who's in charge of10 operations on it.11
The only concern12 that I have is whether or not it disrupts13 any of the funding.14
And I don't know16 the answer, unfortunately, because I17 haven't seen any of the Tiger Grant18 documents and the RCAP; I haven't seen19 those as well.20 So if it didn't affect those --21 and, unfortunately, I can't answer that22 question -- then it wouldn't be a problem23 to come back.24 If you grant the authorization25 46 12.8.10 - PUB PROP/PUB WORKS - BILL 1008421 to enter into a lease, however, you --2 it's not going to be effective until you3 sign off on the maintenance agreement.4 That may in fact trigger some problems5 because if you're a grant funder, you're6 going to realize that, okay, well, maybe7 this really isn't a done deal.8 I don't know the answer, but9 that's my concern.10
Is there specific13 type of issues -- I know you want it all14 resolved; that's clear. We want it all15 resolved.16 Is there something that you're17 concerned about in particular, some area,18 some general thing you're worried could19 go wrong? Like provided that the City20 steps up and --21
I mean, I22 think what I'm -- what I'm -- the kind of23 questions I'm asking are pretty basic:24 One, I want to do something on25 47 12.8.10 - PUB PROP/PUB WORKS - BILL 1008421 the plaza, who do I go to. Who has final2 authorization -- or preliminary3 authorization and who has final4 authorization?5 Two. Any potential -- and I6 hadn't gotten to these yet, potential7 lease opportunities for vending, for8 retail opportunities.9 I -- you know, those are the10 kind of things -- I just need to know11 what that process is, what the criteria12 is going to be establishing that, and13 ultimately whose responsibility it is.14 Pretty basic stuff.15
To the extent16 that there are answers to those17 questions -- although I'm not sure this18 is the practice Council wants to get19 into, but you can pass the bill subject20 to the fact that the City has ultimate21 control over public events on the site or22 last say or something like that.23 That you can do, and that would24 not affect any of the funding because25 48 12.8.10 - PUB PROP/PUB WORKS - BILL 1008421 they just want to lock certain agreement.2 They're not concerned about the details;3 they want to know that it's done. It's4 not so much -- the funders don't care who5 ultimately is going to be responsible for6 public events.7
Yeah, I11 mean, I'm assuming they don't care; they12 just want to see site control.13
I know. And I17 think part of that -- I guess if the18 Commissioner -- if you are clear to what19 it is that you want and the Commissioner20 is clear that she is absolutely going to21 make sure that that happens, then that is22 another way.23 But if you're uncertain because24 you don't know where you want it to go or25 49 12.8.10 - PUB PROP/PUB WORKS - BILL 1008421 you're uncertain that the Commissioner2 will bring it in that direction, then --3
I'm just4 uncertain because I've asked a couple of5 questions that I've yet to get answers6 to, so --7
What we envisioned15 clearly is that this is a lease that16 references an operating agreement that's17 incorporated in the lease. I've always18 expected there's an operating agreement19 incorporated into the lease as an20 exhibit.21 So if you're requesting this22 lease, you're giving approval to the City23 to enter into a lease agreement that has24 an operating agreement that specifies25 50 12.8.10 - PUB PROP/PUB WORKS - BILL 1008421 those things. We're very comfortable2 with that notion, that there's an3 operating agreement incorporated in the4 lease. I have no objections to that at5 all.6
And I think that8 goes without saying, that those details,9 absolutely, everybody is aware that they10 have to go in; we haven't gotten to them.11 I think what I've also heard12 the Commissioner say is that ultimately,13 it is going to be either her office or14 somebody at the City that will, in fact,15 have the final say on all events.16 Whether or not you go to her office to17 schedule your events is a different18 question than who --19
I mean I20 don't really -- I just need to -- you21 know, I need to know that there's some22 process that's going to determine that --23
-- and I25 51 12.8.10 - PUB PROP/PUB WORKS - BILL 1008421 don't see that.2
And I think the3 process will be dictated by what's the4 most efficient. And if they're doing the5 day-to-day programming, it probably makes6 sense for them to work in all of the7 bigger events, with the understanding8 that if the City is not happy with any of9 it, we have the opportunity to fix that10 and correct that, we have the authority.11 And I think that is fully12 intended by what the Commissioner is13 trying to articulate up here, that it14 will be the City. It may not be her; it15 may be the Managing Director, but it will16 be the City.17
Councilman, if I20 could just address the other issue that21 you --22
What I'd25 52 12.8.10 - PUB PROP/PUB WORKS - BILL 1008421 like to discuss is the impact that this2 project will have on existing venues.3 An example: We all know4 there's a Christmas village outside.5 Will that be able to continue with this6 configuration?7 COMM. SCHLOTTERBECK: Yes.8
Yeah. Councilman,9 if you go to of the -- and look at10 image 19, and then look at the center,11 this is designed to carry what could be12 farmers markets, it could be a Christmas13 village. It will be physically laid out14 a different way, but that is very much a15 part of what we envision, all of those16 activities, and we think that the site17 will be much better designed for that.18
And what19 impact does this have on venues that20 already exist on this -- in this area?21 Do you have a list of venues that have,22 let's say, in the last five years have23 occurred? Because I think it would be24 unfortunate if we start displacing --25 53 12.8.10 - PUB PROP/PUB WORKS - BILL 1008421 COMM. SCHLOTTERBECK: Yeah, I2 do. We have that.3
Displacing4 venues by this configuration. So I think5 you have to be considerate of what's gone6 on out there for all these years and not7 just drop it, because I also hear that8 the community, in some cases, the9 immediate neighbors have really not been10 privy to what's going on. I don't know11 if that's right or wrong. My --12
-- office14 has gotten calls today saying that the --15
My office18 has received calls today, Paul, saying19 that there's not been a lot of20 communication about this project.21
Well, the only25 54 12.8.10 - PUB PROP/PUB WORKS - BILL 1008421 immediate residential neighbors are the2 residents at the Ritz, and we've spoken3 at that location twice. All of the major4 property owners, we've spoken to each one5 of them. So we've communicated with all6 of them.7
Well, I'm8 just being straight with you, that9 there's been some -- so what about a list10 of events --11 COMM. SCHLOTTERBECK: Well,12 councilman, I have a list of every event.13
Well --14 COMM. SCHLOTTERBECK: I mean,15 I've been doing this for a long time.16
So maybe17 that will answer Councilman Clarke's18 question: How do you approve an event19 now, today?20 COMM. SCHLOTTERBECK: What21 happens is, I don't, I personally don't.22 I'm the real estate owner, so I kind of23 allow an event to happen after it's been24 approved, either through the City Rep's25 55 12.8.10 - PUB PROP/PUB WORKS - BILL 1008421 Office or the Managing Director or both.2 And that's going to remain -- what I'm3 saying is, that's still the case.4 It will be incorporated and5 coordinated in the existing calendar for6 other events that will happen because7 this venue is so desirable.8 When this is done -- and this9 is totally different than what we have10 out there right now. The opportunity to11 do more is there and better and bigger.12 And it's very flexible.13
But it's14 still not clear -- and I've been sitting15 here listening of what that is going to16 be. And all -- if you're telling me that17 it's going to be -- I mean, you want this18 thing out of this committee. So the19 people that vote to get it out of20 committee need to really, truly21 understand what's going on here.22 COMM. SCHLOTTERBECK: Mm-hmm.23
Unless you24 don't want it out of committee.25 56 12.8.10 - PUB PROP/PUB WORKS - BILL 1008421 But my point is that -- are you2 telling me that the exact process that3 you use today to approve an event out4 there is what we're going to use in the5 future?6
Councilman, I think7 the way that we have discussed this is8 that we will sit -- there's a list of9 events, as you said, that are occurring10 out there. What we envision doing is,11 we'll sit down and review that list, we12 will make up a calendar.13 And, as I've said, we are14 virtually doubling the amount of15 programmable space on this plaza. We16 envision other events that currently17 don't happen there like ice-skating, like18 farmers markets on a regular basis.19 And so, what we contemplate is20 that the lease will have an operating21 agreement that will list a set of events22 that will occur and will establish the23 protocols between the City and the Center24 City District in terms of how you resolve25 57 12.8.10 - PUB PROP/PUB WORKS - BILL 1008421 conflicts. And we've just said that we2 fully recognize that time City supersedes3 our authority at that moment.4
So I think -- I6 think that is the assurance, I think,7 that you were looking for.8
Yeah, okay.9 But now my last question is, there is the10 potential that some activity that occurs11 there presently could get knocked out.12 COMM. SCHLOTTERBECK: Not if we13 don't want it to get knocked out. No, if14 we -- whatever is currently going on --15 we completely control what happens.16 We're not going to eliminate things, no.17
In other21 words, it's not going to be so fancy that22 a certain "X, Y, Z Group" isn't going to23 be acceptable to be out there, right?24 COMM. SCHLOTTERBECK: No.25 58 12.8.10 - PUB PROP/PUB WORKS - BILL 1008421
All right,2 okay.3 COMM. SCHLOTTERBECK: And the4 thing that the entire apron, if you will,5 as we refer to it, that's still under the6 complete jurisdiction and control of the7 City of Philadelphia Public Property8 Commissioner. Getting on and off,9 getting the event there, everything10 remains under our jurisdiction.11
Okay.12 COMM. SCHLOTTERBECK: We're not13 giving away any of that. It's a public14 space, and it will remain public.15
Councilman18 DiCicco.19 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: I don't20 know if I even want to mention this, but21 I'm just curious as to -- well, first of22 all, I think you did mention,23 Commissioner, and, Paul, you probably24 mentioned it: We're going to have much25 59 12.8.10 - PUB PROP/PUB WORKS - BILL 1008421 more usable space --2
Correct.3 COMM. SCHLOTTERBECK: Correct.4 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: -- than we5 have today.6 COMM. SCHLOTTERBECK: Correct.7 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: And a more8 practical way of using that space because9 the elimination of staircases and the --10 and I don't remember the big word you11 used, Paul.12
The oculus around13 it. I learned that from an architect.14 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Thank you,15 thank you. I learned a new word too.16 COMM. SCHLOTTERBECK: The17 amount of time in delay getting people on18 and off --19 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Yeah, I20 know.21 COMM. SCHLOTTERBECK: -- the22 ability to wheel up, plug in; we don't23 have that now.24 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: I25 60 12.8.10 - PUB PROP/PUB WORKS - BILL 1008421 understand that.2 COMM. SCHLOTTERBECK: I mean,3 we're running wires, we're --4 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Yeah. I5 mean, notwithstanding the operational6 issues that Councilman Clarke spoke to7 and how that gets figured all out, I8 don't know what's going on there other9 than this Christmas village.10 Occasionally I see a blowup machine that11 somebody's advertising cell phones or12 something.13 I'm just curious as to what it14 is we're worried about eliminating.15 COMM. SCHLOTTERBECK: Well, we16 have the -- we put up a lot of events for17 the Thanksgiving stands, and we do the18 Mummers out front there.19 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: I'm a20 Mummer. I know -- I just don't never21 remember ever using that.22 COMM. SCHLOTTERBECK: Well, the23 viewing stands.24 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Oh, the25 61 12.8.10 - PUB PROP/PUB WORKS - BILL 1008421 viewing stands, all right, the viewing2 stands.3 COMM. SCHLOTTERBECK: That's4 what it is.5 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Okay.6 COMM. SCHLOTTERBECK: But no, I7 mean -- and that's the point. I'm not8 trying to be reluctant in my answer.9 What I'm saying is that the City's events10 are a priority and the events that --11 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: I'm not12 trying to interrupt you; I'm only trying13 to make the point that I don't know what14 we're giving up. If anything --15 COMM. SCHLOTTERBECK: We're16 not.17 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: -- it's18 got to be a major improvement.19 COMM. SCHLOTTERBECK:20 Absolutely.21 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: -- because22 it's -- other than the viewing stands for23 parades and the Christmas/holiday24 village, it's a dead zone.25 62 12.8.10 - PUB PROP/PUB WORKS - BILL 1008421 COMM. SCHLOTTERBECK: Not only2 that --3 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: I mean,4 it's not an inviting place to be.5 COMM. SCHLOTTERBECK: -- it6 will eliminate a lot of our liability.7 We don't have --8 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: God9 forbid, between lights on Market Street10 and this plaza, we should do something to11 make people want to come to Center City.12 COMM. SCHLOTTERBECK: Right.13 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: I don't14 know why we're doing this.15 COMM. SCHLOTTERBECK: Okay.16
Thank you,17 Councilman.18 What I'd like to do -- well,19 first of all, thank you. Please remain20 in the chambers.21 What I'd like to do right now22 is, we have two other individuals who are23 listed to testify: John Gallery and24 James Lindhart. Are they available?25 63 12.8.10 - PUB PROP/PUB WORKS - BILL 1008421
Okay.8 (Councilman Greenlee assumes9 committee chairmanship at this point.)10 (Witness comes forward.)11
Good12 afternoon, Mr. Gallery. If you could13 just -- I think you know the procedure --14 put your name on the record and proceed15 with your testimony, please.16
My name is John17 Gallery. 23 With respect to the unnecessary24 part, Mr. 5 The contracts would not be6 issued if this issue of ownership was a7 requirement for the execution of those8 contracts. 14 Mr. 21 Why is it premature. I've been22 involved in every public meeting on23 Dilworth Plaza in the last over two24 years. 10 There may be intentions to do something11 different, but we don't have anything12 before us which shows that. 14 There have been many, many15 groups -- in response to your question,16 Councilman Greenlee -- who have appeared17 at these public hearings and have18 testified, expressing great concern about19 the plans. 10 - PUB PROP/PUB WORKS - BILL 1008421 made to the Art Commission two years ago,2 which the Art Commission was reviewing3 for only an in-concept approval, and no4 in-concept approval was even given by the5 Art Commission. 14 Number one, there's been no15 time for anyone to really examine the16 implications of this bill. 19 Secondly, as you've been20 expressing in your own questions, the21 details about this are not available,22 there is no draft of a lease. 10 - PUB PROP/PUB WORKS - BILL 1008421 me on the phone yesterday it was a2 license. 14 None of the -- the issues that15 Councilman Clarke was raising are not16 just about events; it's about a hundred17 percent control, who has control. 10 - PUB PROP/PUB WORKS - BILL 1008421 approved by the critical public agencies2 that need to approve it. 15
Sir, I16 think Mr. Levy did say that he knows that17 it would at least have to go to the Art18 Commission. I think he did mention some19 other organization.20
Yes, but it is25 69 12.8.10 - PUB PROP/PUB WORKS - BILL 1008421 not in the bill.2 And our concern is that this --3 a lease arrangement may be construed as a4 way to avoid some of these reviews. And5 since the Commissioner of Public Property6 and Mr. Levy both have acknowledged that7 those reviews are essential, we'd like to8 see that written into the bill.9 I don't know whether the10 Exhibit A that we received as an11 attachment to the bill is considered to12 be a part of the bill, but we would like13 to see written in that none of the City14 reviews are waived in terms of this15 arrangement, it doesn't waive any of the16 City reviews.17 We'd like to see -- make it18 clear that there is no plan that's been19 approved and, therefore, the bill should20 not include a description of improvements21 that are to be made because there are no22 improvements that have been approved at23 this point.24 We'd like to have clarity on25 70 12.8.10 - PUB PROP/PUB WORKS - BILL 1008421 whether this is a license or a lease.2 And we'd also like to be assured that the3 City Council does, in fact, have the4 authority to enter into a 20- or 30-,5 whatever it is, license or lease under6 the provisions of the Charter.7 Because this was only8 introduced last week, I sent all of you9 copies of all of these questions; I sent10 them to Councilman Clarke. This11 information has just not been available.12 I think this is an important13 public space, it's an important public14 issue, and these questions should be15 available and understood and answered and16 available to the groups that have been17 concerned with this project for the last18 two years.19 And my request to you would be20 to table this bill, wait and hear what21 the City Planning Commission says,22 whether there's other public testimony at23 the Planning Commission, and to amend the24 bill to clarify whether this is a lease25 71 12.8.10 - PUB PROP/PUB WORKS - BILL 1008421 or a license.2 And also amend the bill to3 clarify that all plans must go through4 the mandatory review process, as everyone5 has stated they would, but to put it in6 the bill so that it is explicitly clear.7 Thank you for the opportunity8 to testify.9
Thank10 you.11 Let me just ask a general12 question: Do you think that there should13 be -- I mean, the general concept. I14 hear your concern about a lot of the15 details. But the general concept of16 doing something in this nature at17 Dilworth Plaza, what is your opinion on18 that? Do you have an opinion or --19
When you say "in20 this nature," you're reffing to the plans21 before you.22
And the answer to24 that is no.25 72 12.8.10 - PUB PROP/PUB WORKS - BILL 1008421
I think there are3 a great many deficiencies in that4 particular plan.5 If you're asking me the6 question Should we do something to7 improve Dilworth Plaza? the answer is8 yes.9
But many, many11 people have expressed strong concerns12 about that plan. This is something which13 has not been acknowledged.14 And if you look at the Art15 Commission discussion, you will see that16 the Art Commission members are17 representative of the Fairmount Park Art18 Association, myself, the representative19 of the Design Advocacy Group all spoke20 expressing strong reservations. I don't21 know what that plan looks like because22 I've never seen it.23
All spoke with25 73 12.8.10 - PUB PROP/PUB WORKS - BILL 1008421 strong reservations about the plans that2 were presented at that time. Is that the3 plan that was presented? I have no idea,4 because that document that you have has5 not been available to the public.6
Mm-hmm.7 So they presented plans; you're not sure8 if these are the same ones, though,9 'cause you've never seen --10
And I'm not going14 to take 30 seconds and try to see if it's15 the same plan.16
Thank you,19 Councilman. I appreciate it.20 COUNCILMAN GREENLEE:21 Councilman DiCicco.22 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Thank you.23 Good afternoon, Mr. Gallery.24 The last statement you made about you've25 74 12.8.10 - PUB PROP/PUB WORKS - BILL 1008421 never seen 'em, I think we have all2 pretty much, safely I can say, have seen3 some rendition, or renditions, of a4 concept. It was even in the Inquirer.5
That's correct6 I'm not disagreeing with that.7 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: I remember8 seeing --9
I don't disagree10 with you.11 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Oh, you12 don't disagree, okay.13
No, I don't14 disagree with you.15 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: I'm also16 looking at Mr. Levy's testimony. Do you17 have a copy of that?18
But I listened22 pretty carefully. Go ahead.23 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Going to,24 I think, the design review section, I'd25 75 12.8.10 - PUB PROP/PUB WORKS - BILL 1008421 like to have another copy if I can get2 one. Shawn, could you give me a copy of3 Mr. Levy's testimony.4 I underscored where Mr. Levy5 testified that the CCD anticipates6 returning to the Historical Commission7 for review and final approval in February8 of '11 and will follow with a9 presentation to the Art Commission when10 design of our public art concept is11 complete -- meaning it's still a work in12 progress.13 And then the last sentence14 says, "So I want to underscore" -- and15 this is Paul Levy -- "that in approving16 this lease, the City is still reserving17 all of its rights and powers to approve18 the final design and construction19 documents for this project."20 That seems to me to be pretty21 consistent when we do leasing of City22 property for development.23 I assume -- and someone might24 correct me if I'm wrong -- that we'll25 76 12.8.10 - PUB PROP/PUB WORKS - BILL 1008421 have to go to the Planning Commission2 with a project plan, and your agency, the3 Art Commission, and the Historical4 Commission as well. I mean, it's in his5 testimony.6
Then why not put7 it in the bill?8 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Well, it9 becomes a part of the record as being10 part of the bill. I'm not an attorney,11 but I --12
I'm not, either.13 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: -- and14 maybe the Law Department can correct me.15 We can do that. I don't have a problem16 with that; I don't think Mr. Levy would17 have a problem with that as well.18 Again, if it's a technicality19 that that language be a part of the bill,20 we could amend it to be included.21
Yes. And in22 doing that, I would prefer that the23 language say not that a presentation will24 be made to the Art Commission, but the25 77 12.8.10 - PUB PROP/PUB WORKS - BILL 1008421 same language that is that the Art2 Commission will have jurisdiction for a3 final approval, just as the Historical4 Commission.5 It isn't just a presentation6 for information; it's for their approval.7 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Well, you8 start with a presentation and a concept,9 and then doesn't it get worked through10 the various commissions as to what the11 pros and cons are or what --12
All I'm saying13 is, that hasn't happened with the Art14 Commission.15 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: But it16 hasn't happened because they don't have17 control of the lease yet.18
That is not19 correct, Councilman. That's not correct.20 (Indiscernible; parties talking21 over each other.)22 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: ... 'cause23 I really appreciate all of the work you24 do, and you and I have had a good working25 78 12.8.10 - PUB PROP/PUB WORKS - BILL 1008421 relationship over the years.2
I know.3 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: But I go4 back to your first statement where you5 mention something about this is not that6 time-sensitive. I think it is, and I'll7 tell you why.8
Mm-hmm.9 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: In about10 five weeks, there'll be a new governor11 sitting in Harrisburg. And all of the12 comments -- and I'm not trying to be13 critical of the governor, but all of the14 comments I've read about where he's15 taking this state and in terms of funding16 projects, I think the RCAP Grant could be17 in jeopardy, significantly be in18 jeopardy, because it doesn't appear from19 the comments I've heard from the20 Governor-elect that he is going to go21 down the path of economic development22 just for the sake of doing projects.23 We know it's important to24 Philadelphia; I don't think he thinks --25 79 12.8.10 - PUB PROP/PUB WORKS - BILL 1008421 I can't get in his head, I'm not in his2 head. But I don't think, based on what3 I've been hearing, that he might approve4 this; he may not. I don't want to take5 that chance; I don't think it's worth6 that chance.7 Because if he's looking at8 Governor Christie and, paraphrasing his9 quote, Governor Christie is his mentor.10 And I see that Governor Christie has11 given back over $300 million in federal12 grants for the tunnel. I can't imagine13 Corbett having -- losing any sleep over14 pulling a $15 million grant, or whatever15 that number is, a $15.5 million grant16 back on the RCAP.17 I just think it is more18 time-sensitive.19
Right.20 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: If Rendell21 were in for another year, we could have22 more time to talk, but I don't think we23 have that luxury right now.24
So let me just25 80 12.8.10 - PUB PROP/PUB WORKS - BILL 1008421 make this observation.2 Mr. Levy testified that he has3 the agreements from the State. He has4 executed the agreements of the State.5 The agreements do not contain any6 requirement that City Council approve7 this lease. Those agreements are back in8 Harrisburg. The Governor will sign those9 agreements.10 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: No.11 Again, if you read his --12
I listened to13 what he said, Councilman, and what he14 said --15 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Sometimes16 we all --17 (Indiscernible; parties talking18 over each other.)19 COUNCILMAN GREENLEE:20 Mr. Gallery --21
What he said is22 not what this writing says.23 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Read24 his -- I'm asking you to read it, 'cause25 81 12.8.10 - PUB PROP/PUB WORKS - BILL 1008421 sometimes I don't hear things correctly.2 If you go on the first3 paragraph, go down to the second or third4 sentence: "The reason for this lease is5 to fulfill the requirement for site6 control, which is a condition of the7 $15.5 million RCAP Grant."8
Well, let me ask9 to settle this in a reasonable way.10 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: I think11 that's very clear.12
Can Mr. Levy13 produce a document that shows that that14 is the condition of the grant? Could you15 ask him that?16 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Well, I --17
Because that's18 not what he said.19 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Well,20 John, as I've worked with you, I've21 worked with Paul for 15 years, and I've22 never known Paul to try to pull an end23 run on anybody.24
I don't believe25 82 12.8.10 - PUB PROP/PUB WORKS - BILL 1008421 he does either, but when he testified --2 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Well,3 basically what you're saying is --4
He said something5 different and I'm just asking --6 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Well, I'm7 not going to argue with you, John.8
If he has that9 condition, I take away my comment.10 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: It's a11 part of the testimony that is on the12 record here, that that is the condition13 that must be met in order for that RCAP14 to be approved.15 So I have two issues. One16 is -- I believe that also fits into the17 time-sensitive issue that I spoke about.18 If we don't get this done before the next19 governor's sworn in, there's a very20 strong chance that this RCAP will go21 away.22 I'm not going to argue that23 point; I'm only going by what I read here24 and what I believe to be accurate,25 83 12.8.10 - PUB PROP/PUB WORKS - BILL 1008421 truthful information that is being2 testified by Paul Levy. I can't rely on3 anything else other than my experience of4 working with him, as I do with you.5
Okay.8 Thank you.9 Any other questions for10 Mr. Gallery?11 (No further questions.)12
I think13 Mr. Levy would like to say something14 else, please. Thank you.15 (Witness comes forward.)16
My name is Paul Levy17 again. I just want to clarify that one18 point.19 The way that RCAP money works20 is, the governor of the state designates21 PIDC as the vehicle through which it22 passes. We have an executed contract23 with PIDC, and that now needs to be24 improved in Harrisburg.25 84 12.8.10 - PUB PROP/PUB WORKS - BILL 1008421 So we have an executed contract2 with PIDC. A condition of that is both3 matching dollars and site control. It is4 circulating in Harrisburg now for the5 State's approval of that contract. And6 absent site control, it will not have a7 fully approved status.8
So13 according to what Councilman DiCicco14 said, it still is in somewhat jeopardy.15
The sole reason why16 we've asked you to act more quickly on17 that is that fear.18
Okay.19 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: And if I20 can, just for the record, we recess on21 the 16th and we don't come back until I22 forget what date, but it's after the next23 governor-elect is sworn in.24
That's exactly what25 85 12.8.10 - PUB PROP/PUB WORKS - BILL 1008421 prompted us to do this.2 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: That's the3 concern that I have about not approving4 this lease agreement. Thank you. Thank5 you, Mr. Levy.6
Thank7 you.8 Mr. Gallery, we'll give you one9 more shot here; otherwise, we'll go back10 and forth all day.11
I simply want to12 ask a procedural question. I don't know13 if there's anyone here who can answer it.14 The City Planning Commission15 has not taken an action on this bill.16
I believe, if I'm18 correct, that the City Council needs 3019 days after the Planning Commission makes20 a recommendation before it can act.21 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Yes.22
So the Planning23 Commission will not be acting before24 Tuesday, the 14th?25 86 12.8.10 - PUB PROP/PUB WORKS - BILL 1008421 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: I --2
Which means that3 you could not take an action this month;4 am I correct, or am I incorrect?5 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: I -- I6 don't --7
You're acting on8 the 14th and you have to wait 30 days9 after they act, don't you?10
I'm not11 aware, I'm not sure, I don't know.12 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: I think we13 could pass it.14
Yeah.15 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: And I16 don't know. Maybe somebody from the Law17 Department could answer that. In any18 event --19
I was told by --20 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: -- if we21 don't act -- here's my point. If we22 don't act -- and maybe -- assuming you're23 right, if we don't act, the conditions24 that must be met will not have been met,25 87 12.8.10 - PUB PROP/PUB WORKS - BILL 1008421 and we lose that opportunity again2 because the governor-elect --3
Again, I4 completely understand what you're saying;5 I'm just asking --6 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: That's my7 concern.8
-- a procedural9 question.10 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Yeah. I11 don't know --12
I was told by a13 member of the City Planning staff that14 City Council could not act for 30 days15 until after the --16 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: On17 approval.18 (Indiscernible; parties talking19 over each other.)20
Earlier than 3021 days after the Planning Commission's22 action.23 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: I think24 you're con -- what that refers to is the25 88 12.8.10 - PUB PROP/PUB WORKS - BILL 1008421 plan of development. We're not talking2 about a plan of development because it3 hasn't been offered yet. What we're4 talking about is legislation that will5 lease this site.6 The plan of development, you're7 absolutely right. We could not act until8 30 days after they've had an opportunity9 to review it. They're not reviewing10 anything -- I think I'm correct on11 this -- as of yet. This is just an12 action for us to lease that to CCD.13 The plan and all of the other14 things that need to occur in a process in15 a timely manner will occur later on. The16 question is: The RCAP Grant, is it in17 jeopardy or not? In my opinion, it's in18 jeopardy if we don't get it done.19
I understand20 that. I was just trying to ask for a21 point of clarification relative to the22 Planning Commission's action.23
All right.24 Thank you for your testimony.25 89 12.8.10 - PUB PROP/PUB WORKS - BILL 1008421 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: We're not2 approving the plan; we're just approving3 the lease.4
We are5 actually waiting for about five minutes.6 There's going to be an amendment crafted,7 so there will actually be two amendments.8 (Short break taken.)9 (Proceedings resume.)10
Okay. The11 committee on Public Property and Public12 Works is back in session.13 Commissioner, are you going to14 be reading the proposed amendment?15 COMM. SCHLOTTERBECK: Yes, I16 am.17
Actually,18 it's two proposed amendments. One is19 somewhat of a technical -- you already20 talked about that?21 COMM. SCHLOTTERBECK: Yes. I22 talked about that at the beginning.23
All right.24 Can you present the...25 90 12.8.10 - PUB PROP/PUB WORKS - BILL 1008421 COMM. SCHLOTTERBECK: I am now2 introducing a second amendment to3 proposed Bill No. 100842. This will4 include a Section 3, which will read as5 follows:6 "Provided that the agreement7 authorized by this ordinance will include8 a provision that ensures the operating9 departments of the City that currently10 control and license events on Dilworth11 Plaza will continue to control and12 license events on Dilworth Plaza."13
Great.16 Thank you.17 Any questions by members of the18 committee?19 (No further questions.)20
There being21 none, is there anybody to testify on this22 bill?23 (No response.)24
There being25 91 12.8.10 PUB PROP/PUB WORKS - PUB. MEETING1 none, this will conclude the public2 hearing. We will now go into the public3 meeting.4 Councilman DiCicco, please give5 me a motion on the amendment to Bill No.6 100482.7 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Thank you,8 Mr. Chairman.9 I move that the amendment that10 has just been read into the record by the11 Public Property be approved.12
We actually13 have two amendments.14 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: I'm sorry,15 that the two amendments that have been16 read into the record by the Commissioner17 of Public Property be approved to Bill18 No. 100842.19 (Motion duly seconded.)20
It's been22 moved and seconded.23 Those in favor of the24 amendments to Bill No. 100842 say aye.25 92 12.8.10 PUB PROP/PUB WORKS - PUB. MEETING1 Those opposed?2 The ayes have it.3 Councilman DiCicco, can you4 please give me a motion on the amended5 Bill 100842.6 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Thank you,7 Mr. Chairman.8 I move that Bill No. 100842, as9 amended, be reported out of this10 committee with a favorable recommendation11 and that the rules of Council be12 suspended so as to permit first reading13 at our next session of Council.14 (Motion duly seconded.)15
It's been16 moved and seconded.17 All in favor?18 Those opposed?19 The ayes have it.20 Bill No. 100842 is reported out21 of committee with a favorable22 recommendation and a rules suspension to23 allow for first reading at the next24 session of Council.25 93 12.8.10 PUB PROP/PUB WORKS - PUB. MEETING1 Thank you. Thank you for your2 time.3 (Proceedings end at 2:06 p.m.)4 * * *5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 94 C E R T I F I C A T E2 I HEREBY CERTIFY that the4 proceedings of the City of Philadelphia5 Council Committee on Public Property and6 Public Works are contained fully and7 accurately in the stenographic notes taken by8 me on Wednesday, December 8, 2010, and that9 this is a true and correct statement of same.10 11 12 13 _________________________________ 14 JOSEPHINE CARDILLO Registered Professional Reporter15 16 17 18 19 20 (The foregoing certification of21 this transcript does not apply to any22 reproduction of the same by any means, unless23 under the direct control and/or supervision of24 the certifying reporter.)25