Let me clarify13 that for you. The ten percent number I14 quoted for you was the amount of15 complaints that are actually sustained.16
So out of17 the hundred or so complaints we'll get --18 if we say 150, we'll get 15?19
I'm trying25 152 12/14/10 - PUBLIC SAFETY - BILL 100722, ETC.1 to --2
Yeah. It could3 be recommendations for discipline. It4 could be recommendations for changes in5 policy or practice. It could be6 recommendations for training. It could7 be reprimands. It could be a number of8 different things.9
I think it10 is very important, Madam Chair, that we11 know the exact disposition and work of12 the Commission. I think that's an13 important statistic. And I say this14 because the public, of those 12315 complaints on average -- let's use that16 number -- people who file them want to17 know that disposition, because one of the18 concerns raised -- and you sat through19 those lengthy community meetings -- was20 that the belief is that they go somewhere21 to die and that they go somewhere and22 aren't followed up on, and it is very23 important to keep the statistics.24 Of those 15 or so complaints a25 153 12/14/10 - PUBLIC SAFETY - BILL 100722, ETC.1 year that you find founded, how many of2 them have resulted in the dismissal of an3 officer?4
Councilman5 Jones, you are raising excellent6 questions and we thank you for those7 questions, and that is the value of the8 full body that we have now with the9 commissioners on board. We actually have10 an Investigative Review Committee that11 has been put together and we are actually12 going to be doing our due diligence13 process to look at the data that is very14 important so that we can understand what15 the trends are and to look at some16 proactive strategies that we can work17 together collectively with City Council,18 also with the Police Department, with19 Deputy Mayor Everett Gillison.20 So the questions that you21 raise, we thank you so much. We would22 like to be able to -- it is a high23 priority for us, and we would like to be24 able to capture all of the questions that25 154 12/14/10 - PUBLIC SAFETY - BILL 100722, ETC.1 you have in addition to the wealth of2 questions that -- our commissioners are3 meeting with actually as we speak every4 week that we're together, and it is a top5 priority. We will absolutely look6 forward to getting back to you.7
That's fair8 enough, because we got budget time coming9 up, and I'll ask them again. I10 absolutely guarantee you that.11 One of the things I'd like to12 know while you're ferreting through those13 questions is, what is the average length14 of time that it takes to turn around a15 complaint to a decision or a16 recommendation?17
The average18 number of -- well, the average has varied19 over several years. Right now it is20 about seven months for a full21 investigation to disposition.22
And why is23 the length of that -- what is the average24 length of time it takes to send somebody25 155 12/14/10 - PUBLIC SAFETY - BILL 100722, ETC.1 to trial? A hundred twenty days, isn't2 it? What is it?3 DEPUTY
One eighty?6 All right. Just as a point of reference7 there.8 What do you attribute the9 length of that discovery to?10
The length of11 time can be related to a number of12 different factors. Part of the13 investigative process requires us to14 collect information not only from15 complainants but also from independent16 witnesses. We must also collect17 information pertaining to injuries, which18 involve doctors' records, as well as any19 other type of information related to that20 complaint. That, at times, can cause the21 process to be a bit extended.22
Now, you23 didn't say budget, so okay. We're going24 to take that one off the table, Everett,25 156 12/14/10 - PUBLIC SAFETY - BILL 100722, ETC.1 but we're going to be looking at that by2 way of process.3 But let me say this: It is too4 long, and here's why it's too long. It's5 unfair to the officer that has the6 clouded title, cloud of suspicion over7 him, and it is unfair to the complainant8 who filed a complaint in good faith,9 wants a determination. Whether you say10 it's valid or not valid, at least it's11 not hanging over their head, and there12 are probably other connecting things that13 go along with that, because usually it's14 been -- well, maybe I'll pose it in the15 form of a question.16 When someone files a complaint,17 how often is it there is a counter-charge18 associated with the individual19 complaining?20
If I come to23 you for a complaint, what is the24 probability that there is some type of25 157 12/14/10 - PUBLIC SAFETY - BILL 100722, ETC.1 charge placed on the person complaining?2 Meaning, I'm coming in to complain. Is3 there something in court or is there a4 charge associated with me? On average,5 is that the norm or do you have a6 statistic that tells us that?7
Probably about 258 percent of all the complaints we receive9 have some connected charge to them where10 the individual is now in court to have11 those charges resolved. So, yes.12
I'm going13 to ask the Commission to delve into that14 and give me some exact, because "about"15 and "approximately" -- whenever you say16 25 percent on the money, I know that's17 probably a little inaccurate. So I need18 to know the accurate number, accurate19 times, how long disposition takes. I20 think that's critical in restoring faith21 of the public that this process is22 something that -- when somebody23 complains, they take time to do it. When24 an officer is under that cloud, you know,25 158 12/14/10 - PUBLIC SAFETY - BILL 100722, ETC.1 that may weigh heavily on promotions,2 this, that or the other. So disposition3 one way or the other is critical in4 resolution of these matters and restoring5 faith of the public.6
Let me add just7 for clarity that every complainant who8 comes in is informed of a disposition on9 their complaint. They are sent a formal10 notice of the disposition of the11 complaint that they filed. So no one is12 going on without knowing the results of13 their actual complaint.14
All right.15 And, finally, what is your budget and16 what is the average cost to follow up a17 complaint? How much does it cost to18 investigate these things?19
The last time we20 looked at that was back in 2006, so I can21 give you the statistics from that. Our22 budget -- well, our budget I can give you23 today. Our budget today is a little less24 than $300,000. We have five employees25 159 12/14/10 - PUBLIC SAFETY - BILL 100722, ETC.1 that are working at the Commission.2
Five3 employees that deal with the hundred and4 what cases a year?5
And if we8 have a seven-month period, that can be9 some overlap.10
There absolutely11 has been some overlap. We are carrying12 now approximately 185, I believe, pending13 cases.14
Just real15 quick, and this will be my final16 question, Madam Chair. There was a17 reference in a news article of $3118 million that was a result of lawsuits19 that the City settled on. How many of20 them were connected? Is there a direct21 correlation between complaints filed by22 you and are some of the recipients of23 those awards some of the cases that you24 deal with?25 160 12/14/10 - PUBLIC SAFETY - BILL 100722, ETC.1
There have been2 some. I couldn't tell you what the exact3 statistic would be, but there have been4 some people who have filed complaints5 with us who have received settlement from6 the City.7
Of your8 complaints, how many -- so Internal9 Affairs deals with a different group.10 How many of them have been domestic by11 nature of the complaints that were filed,12 a spouse of an officer or something like13 that? Do you get those kinds of14 complaints or is it generally just the15 public?16
We have gotten17 those kinds of complaints, but they18 are -- there's a very small number of19 those we've received.20
And how many21 of them are business related, small22 businesses? I need a breakdown, I guess,23 of the anatomy of the types of complaints24 that have come in by category. So when I25 161 12/14/10 - PUBLIC SAFETY - BILL 100722, ETC.1 say "by category," how many of them are2 people that are a result of police stops?3 How many of them are complaints that are4 a little more generated by commercial5 businesses, and a breakdown of them? And6 I would ask that question also of7 Internal Affairs. No details about any8 particular cases, but I'd like some9 general categories by which we are10 receiving those cases to see if there is11 a pattern and/or trend.12
What I can tell13 you statistically from the time that we14 began tracking the stop and frisk15 initiative, which we were asked to do by16 the Deputy Mayor, in April of 2008 until17 December of 2009, there had been 12018 complaints of police misconduct connected19 with the stop and frisk initiative. Now,20 we haven't compiled the 2010 numbers as21 of yet.22
That would be25 162 12/14/10 - PUBLIC SAFETY - BILL 100722, ETC.1 from April of 2008 to December of 2009.2
Do you keep3 track of the racial composition of these4 complaints?5
I can.10 Of the 136 complaints that11 we've received thus far this year, 7212 percent, or 97, of those individuals have13 been African American, 12 have been14 Latino, about nine percent of all15 complaints, 24 have been Caucasian, about16 19.5 percent, and three percent have been17 Asian or other.18
We do keep21 categories of male and female as well.22 I'm just looking for it here on my sheet.23 We do have that statistic. I24 don't have it with me right now. We can25 163 12/14/10 - PUBLIC SAFETY - BILL 100722, ETC.1 supply it.2
I know3 Ms. Spraggins is going to make sure you4 have that.5
Yes, we are.6 We will definitely look at breakdown with7 female and male.8
You're11 welcome.12 Mr. Johnson and Ms. Spraggins,13 what type of outreach do you do and how14 do you think you can become a more15 visible organization? Because many16 people don't know who you are and what17 you do.18
Thank you,19 Councilwoman Miller, for asking the20 question. We have the opportunity now to21 be much more effective and increase the22 Philadelphia Police Advisory Commission23 awareness in the community due to the24 full body of the Commission's25 164 12/14/10 - PUBLIC SAFETY - BILL 100722, ETC.1 commissioners that we have on board.2 We have been in the community.3 I've held community meetings as well as4 participate in the pilot program, and we5 are in the process, in addition to6 providing the -- reviewing the --7 gathering the due diligence around the8 statistical data, to look at the type of9 complaints.10 We are also -- our second top11 priority, or you can say out of our top12 three, is to develop a comprehensive13 community outreach program that will14 increase our awareness throughout the15 City of Philadelphia.16
Certainly17 we know you exist, but I do think that18 more and more people need to know not19 just about you but also about the police20 advisory groups at the local districts.21 And I know you have nothing to do with22 that, but I just think it's a need that23 we need to make sure that we publicize24 more that you guys are around.25 165 12/14/10 - PUBLIC SAFETY - BILL 100722, ETC.1
Absolutely.2 And we will be working very closely with3 Deputy Mayor Everett Gillison and looking4 at a comprehensive public safety strategy5 which will highlight a lot of the6 coordination as well as the comprehensive7 strategy that we've put together to reach8 the people in the community so that they9 know that we are their partners, as well10 as we want each City Council member to11 know we're your strategic partners.12 We're here to work together with you,13 because we know how hard you work in the14 community to effect change, as well as to15 work with Commissioner Ramsey and the16 fine police officers that really are17 dedicated to ensure that the City is18 safe.19
Okay.20 Thank you.21 Mr. McGrody, I have a question.22 If someone has a complaint, is the FOP a23 place that a person can come with a24 complaint?25 166 12/14/10 - PUBLIC SAFETY - BILL 100722, ETC.1 MR. McGRODY: No, not at this2 time. I don't -- we haven't had a3 discussion with Commissioner Ramsey. We4 actually represent and defend the police5 officers. I don't know if that's6 something we'd be involved in.7
Okay. I8 mean, I know that you represent and9 defend, but I just thought I'd ask the10 question, because I never heard of11 anybody going there and filing a12 complaint.13 MR. McGRODY: We have had14 people come in and file complaints, and15 we do direct them to the proper facility16 or we provide them with a phone, if need17 be.18
Okay.19 Thank you.20 Are there any other questions21 for this panel by Committee members?22 (No response.)23 (Ms. Gess yelling from24 audience.)25 167 12/14/10 - PUBLIC SAFETY - BILL 100722, ETC.1
Thank you very4 much for having us. Thank you.5 (Ms. Gess yelling from6 audience.)7
Our third8 panel, Cecil Thomas, Cincinnati Council9 President; Helen Foster, New York City10 Councilwoman; Chad Lassiter, Professor at11 University of Penn.12 (Ms. Gess yelling from13 audience.)14
If you19 sign up, we can have you testify when20 it's your turn. Thank you.21
We24 actually have Cecil Thomas, Cincinnati25 168 12/14/10 - PUBLIC SAFETY - BILL 100722, ETC.1 Council President on the phone, so we're2 going to hear his testimony first.3
I'm6 sorry. Say that again. We are having a7 little disturbance here.8
Okay.11 Can you proceed? You can just state who12 you are and proceed with your testimony.13 COUNCIL PRESIDENT THOMAS:14 Sure. Absolutely. Well, I'm a member of15 the City Council here in the City of16 Cincinnati.17 I'm getting a tremendous amount18 of feedback. Sorry. So I'll try to work19 through this.20 I'm the President Pro Temp of21 the Council here in Cincinnati, and I'm a22 former law enforcement officer, retired23 after 27 years as a member of the24 Cincinnati Police Department. After25 169 12/14/10 - PUBLIC SAFETY - BILL 100722, ETC.1 retiring from the Police Department, I2 spent five years as the Executive3 Director of the Cincinnati Human4 Relations Commission here in the City of5 Cincinnati, and during that period was6 when we had civil unrest in our city as a7 result of problems between the8 relationship between citizens and police,9 and an officer-involved shooting sparked10 some unrest in our city.11 So I kind of feel that -- I12 hear what's being said here. I listened13 to the discussions, and it mirrors a lot14 of what Cincinnati was experiencing that15 led up to the civil unrest in our city.16 And I want to check in to make17 sure I'm still on the line, if someone18 can let me know, because I just don't19 want to be talking to myself and find out20 I wasn't --21
Very24 good.25 170 12/14/10 - PUBLIC SAFETY - BILL 100722, ETC.1
So4 as a result of that incident, prior to5 that, there was a tremendous amount of6 distrust between certain segments of our7 community and the police. More specific,8 the areas of our city that were9 experiencing a number of problems, in the10 African American communities in11 particular, the areas of our city that12 had high incidence of crime, high13 incidence of police-citizen contacts,14 those areas were strained tremendously as15 it relates to citizens and police, and as16 a result of all of that strain, things17 started to just deal that we had citizens18 being shot by the police, we had police19 being shot by citizens, and the overall20 perception was, it was an "us against21 them" attitude in our community. 8 Well, the mistake that the9 Cincinnati Police Department made, along10 with the government at that time, was11 that they said, Well, we're investigating12 it and we'll let you know. Well, all13 that did was add additional suspect to14 what was going on and maybe there was15 coverup and these types of things. 3 So we needed to take a look at police, we4 needed to take a look at citizens. 8 We first looked at our Police9 Department, and we said, Are you doing10 everything -- are your procedures and11 policies, are they the best practices12 around the country? 1 indiscriminate stopping of young African2 American males and using that as a3 pretext to see if they were selling drugs4 or carrying drugs. 11 Well, yes. 14 So the pretext of that started15 to happen much more frequently, not just16 vehicle stops but just citizen-police17 contacts. 7 Now, after the civil unrest,8 when we looked at what we needed to do,9 we decided that we -- well, we had to10 come to an agreement. Meaning the FOP,11 the Police Department, the City of12 Cincinnati and the citizens all had to13 come to some agreements. The first thing14 that we wanted to do was allow an outside15 entity, being the Justice Department, to16 take a look at Cincinnati's policies,17 police policies and procedures. 1 Cincinnati Police Department that needed2 some form of change or tweaking or some3 corrections, 105 of those policies. 8 Once we began to address those9 105 or so changes -- and there was10 resistance by our law enforcement11 community, which was expected. However,12 as we continued to evolve, things got13 better and better. 19 There were two agreements that20 we worked out to begin to work through21 some of our problems. One I sent to22 Councilman Jones is called the RAN23 Report. 1 between the Justice Department and the2 City of Cincinnati, which changed the way3 we do a lot of our policies and4 procedures. 6 I said there were two, but7 there was three. The third one was the8 Collaborative Agreement, which was a9 monitored, agreed-upon method by which we10 worked together, citizens, police, the11 Justice Department, as well as -- it was12 the citizens and the government. 16 The other piece of that that17 built that trust was that we agreed that18 the most important thing is to stop the19 violence and how do we do that without20 violating the most principles of rights21 of citizens, without pointing the finger22 at police, without pointing the finger at23 the community, but allowing them to work24 together. 2 Overall, you all are where we3 were a number of years ago. I'm not4 against arguing against the stop and5 frisk. There's a means by which you do6 that. The problem we had when I was on7 the police force utilizing the same8 tactics of stop and frisk, checking9 people out, is that young officers -- and10 I'm not condemning the younger officers,11 but when you bring young officers on,12 they're extremely aggressive. They want13 to do the job and they want to lock up14 the bad guy, and they want to use every15 means by which to do that, and sometimes16 they over -- they become overbearing in17 how they do their work. 1 that kind of stop and arrest because you2 didn't have probable cause.
So the point3 was, is that the Chief of Police decided4 that -- and this was part of an5 agreement -- that at any time a police6 officer decides that he's going to7 attempt to search a car, he cannot just8 say to the citizen, Can I search your9 car? 1 lot of citizens who would just make false2 complaints against police. So we had to3 write in our Collaborative Agreement4 accountability for folks who file just5 frivolous complaints that did not6 actually occur, and then we tracked7 those. 13 On the other side of that, we14 also established tracking mechanisms for15 officers who continuously get complaints16 that either were sustained or there was17 no way to determine one way or the other18 whether it's sustained or not. When you19 start to track that, the officer starts20 to develop a pattern. Those are the21 officers that we were able to begin to22 say, Okay, are you sure you want to be a23 police officer? 2 So as a result of all of that,3 we now have in place something that is4 really working well in our city as it5 relates to citizens and police working6 together. There's an effort called the7 Cincinnati Initiative to Reduce Violence,8 CIRV, C-I-R-V is the acronym. 10 And the reason that works so well is11 because the citizens are saying to the12 police, You do your job. You're trained13 to do a certain job, which is to protect14 us. And then the citizens are saying to15 the police, We will work with you and16 weed out those that are the problem. The17 only thing that the citizens are asking18 of the police in -- I mean of the City19 Administration is that we create20 opportunities for those who want out of21 that circumstance of crime and all those22 other things. 1 over there that want out of that --2 that's caught up in that life-style and3 want out of it, we got to create4 opportunities for them to be able to get5 out of that, but, however, if they insist6 on continuing that life of crime, of7 selling drugs on the corner, even after8 we brought you in and said, Look, we know9 who you are, the community knows who you10 are, we want you to stop doing that in11 our community, if you still insist on12 doing that, the citizens will say to the13 Chief of Police and his designees, Yes,14 we will help you get this person out of15 our community. 18 And, finally, the third part of19 all of that is when we talk about all the20 collateral damage. What we've determined21 is that there is only a very small22 percentage of people in our community23 that is causing the bulk of the problems24 as far as the violence. 1 it through a lot of intelligence from our2 law enforcement community, intelligence3 from citizens, everybody say, Well, these4 are the folks that are the real problem5 in our community. 13 So with that -- okay. So with14 that, let me wrap this up real quick. 1
Okay.2 Thank you, President Thomas. I think3 that Philadelphians and our different4 entities are together on this issue. You5 know, our goal is to just keep improving6 and making sure that we're doing the7 right thing. And we want to thank you8 for your input today and look forward to9 reading the documents that you've sent to10 Councilman Jones.11 Councilman Jones.12 COUNCIL PRESIDENT THOMAS:13 Okay. I'll hold on and just listen.14
18 It's already on. See, ours is19 red. I don't think yours is red. 22 Good afternoon. My name is Chad Dion23 Lassiter. 1 Pennsylvania. 6 I also want to acknowledge my7 colleagues, Councilman Jones, Deputy8 Mayor of Public Safety Everett Gillison,9 Gabriel Bryant from Philadelphia Futures10 and Deputy Commissioner Ross. 17 Regrettably, many African18 Americans and Latino Americans are aware19 of police misconduct in this nation's20 history and specifically here in21 Philadelphia, be it in the form of22 excessive use of police force, brutality23 or racial profiling. 1 of family members or friends. Therefore,2 the more recent instances of police3 misconduct, no matter how shocking to4 some, confirm what many black and brown5 people already believe about the American6 criminal justice system: That justice is7 not always leveraged fairly. 12 Simply put, the public face of13 a police brutality victim is that of14 black and Latino male. This racial link15 is the direct result of the16 disproportionately high number of blacks17 and Latinos who have been assaulted by18 the police. The racialization of police19 brutality has come at a high price. The20 fact that police brutality is represented21 as black has relegated it to the bottom22 tier of the social problems. 1 of police brutality offered by members of2 minority communities. 10 All told, the dismissal of11 police violence as a black thing should12 not surprise anyone on City Council or in13 the City of Philadelphia. 16 Not only has police brutality17 been widely defined as a black problem,18 it has been positioned as a problem for19 which blacks are solely to blame. Some20 here will assert that the high levels of21 police abuse against blacks and Latinos22 can be explained by their high rates of23 offending. 2 Councilman Jones and others,3 many whites have no idea of how afraid4 many black and Latino people are of5 police. 16 The harsh truth is that young17 black men have the highest probability of18 being stopped and, therefore, harassed by19 the police. 1 PROFESSOR LASSITER: --2 studying in the library while black,3 working while black, or in my case during4 the summer of 2005, attending church5 while black, when two or four black cops6 wanted to check my Bible for a weapon of7 a crime that happened near or around the8 church that I attend, Triumph Baptist9 Church. 5 Where do we go? Because of the6 "we against them" fraternity and7 mentality and the "blue wall of silence"8 within the Police Department, it has9 always been difficult to prove police10 brutality cases. Police officers often11 refuse to come forward to expose brutal12 and corrupt fellow officers. Police13 officers are also invested with a special14 dispensation of trust, which provides15 them to get the benefit of the doubt in16 court proceedings. 18 Therefore, the cops are right, is the19 thinking. If we assert that not all20 police engage in misconduct, then we must21 also assert that not all black and Latino22 people are criminals. 1 The problem of police brutality2 must be understood in a larger social,3 economic and political context. )9 PROFESSOR LASSITER: Not saying10 that these are forthcoming suggestions11 that have not been looked at. Maybe they12 have. I offer some following13 suggestions:14 Advocate for more police15 training, not on cultural awareness,16 anti-racism training, and how to interact17 more effectively with minority18 communities. 6 And, lastly, engage in greater7 outreach and education to African8 Americans and people of color. )18
Thank19 you, sir. Thank you for your testimony.20 Are there any questions?21 (No response.)22
Thank23 you. Thank you for your patience in24 waiting. Thank you.25 193 12/14/10 - PUBLIC SAFETY - BILL 100722, ETC.1 The next witnesses we have on2 the list -- and if I could just add,3 there are a number of people who still4 wish to give testimony and I just -- we5 all appreciate if you could be as brief6 as possible so everybody has a chance to7 testify and doesn't have to leave.8 The next ones I have on my list9 are Pastor Brian Jenkins. Is he here?10 Yes. Joe Easton, is he here? Okay. And11 Sara Mullen or anyone representing the12 ACLU. If you three could come forward,13 I'd appreciate it.14 And, again, if you have written15 testimony, we can have that put in the16 record.17 (Witnesses approached witness18 table.)19
Pastor20 Jenkins, you're first. If you could just21 identify yourself for the record and22 proceed, please.23
Thank you.24 Good morning -- afternoon actually now.25 194 12/14/10 - PUBLIC SAFETY - BILL 100722, ETC.1
My name is4 Brian Jenkins. I'm the Senior Pastor of5 Chosen 300 Outreach and Worship Center at6 1116 Spring Garden Street and Executive7 Director of Chosen 300 Ministries8 worldwide. 12 My congregation is made up of13 primarily homeless people. Ninety14 percent of the congregation is actually15 homeless. We've experienced two16 incidents in particular during worship,17 during worship in which police officers18 have come into our worship services and19 disrupted worship. One was in October of20 2008. There were six police officers21 that stormed into our building during22 worship service to look for someone. 5 July 5th of 2009, two officers6 stormed into our Sunday morning worship7 during prayer and wanted to look for8 someone who had pick-pocketed someone on9 Arch Street, which is three-quarters of a10 mile away. 18 There was policy that was put in place by19 the Police Department that officers could20 not enter into a worship service without21 notifying a supervisor and unless there22 was severe just cause. 4 I then stopped the officer. 7 So from that, you know, we8 finally got the officers out of the9 building. 15 They also, both of them, came to our16 Sunday morning worship and addressed the17 issue. 20 I believe that everybody has a21 right at some time to make a mistake or22 bad choice. The issue, the greater23 issue, is not the decision that was made24 on the day of our worship service. 10 We then filed another written11 complaint both to the Mayor of the City12 of Philadelphia, also the Police13 Commissioner. 15 We finally -- an internal16 investigation was done. 3 To date -- this incident4 happened July the 5th, 2009, over a year5 and a half ago -- what we have received6 is no answer. 7 My concern at this point is not8 so much the incident, but in our public,9 in our City government, we have the10 inability when complaints are filed that11 they are not answered. And I think you12 made an outstanding point earlier that it13 takes 180 days for a criminal to be14 prosecuted and that complaint to be15 completed. 19 I believe that we have an20 outstanding police force. 1 congregation of homeless people and no2 action is taken. 9 Like I said, we have some great10 officers. 11 We have great people that serve like12 Richard Ross and Kevin Bethel. 16
Thank17 you, Pastor, for your testimony.18 Mr. Easton.19
Yes. 2 And, again, my name is Joe3 Eastman. 13 For the past five years, it has14 been my honor and privilege to work with15 and get to know a man I believe to be the16 best district commander in Philadelphia,17 Captain Brian Korn, Commanding Officer,18 6th Police District. 20 Sixth District may be one of21 the most diverse in the City, going from22 Poplar Street in the north to Lombard in23 the south, Broad Street to the Delaware24 River. 1 to Chinatown, in my opinion, is treated2 with equal respect and dignity by Captain3 Korn and his officers. 7 Another reason and one in which8 I think is very beneficial for the sense9 of community within 6th District is the10 dialogue between 6th District and the11 community. 16 Couple this with Captain Korn's open-door17 policy to community members and it is18 easy to see the reason most issues are19 handled very quickly. If an issue is not20 resolved the day it is voiced, it's been21 my experience that it is resolved before22 close of business the next day. 5 I spent 25 years in the United6 States military. I received orders and I7 gave orders. I think I understand the8 art of leadership. 11 This is certainly true in 6th District,12 in my experience. Whether a lieutenant,13 sergeant or patrol officer, each one14 treats every community member within 6th15 District with respect and dignity. 19 With respect to the hearing, I20 believe this sense of community engrained21 within 6th District would empower those22 who believe it may have happened --23 misconduct now -- to come forward and24 report it. 1 member would feel threatened by coming2 forward. Just the opposite would happen,3 I believe. 13
Hi. Actually, Mary17 Catherine Roper. I'm a staff attorney18 for the American Civil Liberties Union of19 Pennsylvania, and I want to thank you for20 inviting us here today, but, more21 importantly, thank you for holding this22 hearing.23 The most important thing I have24 to say to you, though, is that you need25 205 12/14/10 - PUBLIC SAFETY - BILL 100722, ETC.1 to hold another hearing in a year. We2 have heard a lot of aspirations and3 promises from the leadership of the4 Police Department today. I have to tell5 you, they are aspirations that I have6 been hearing from this Administration for7 two years that have not yet come to pass,8 such as the revitalization of the9 Integrity and Accountability Office.10 We agree with Commissioner11 Ramsey, with Deputy Mayor Gillison that12 the only way to effectively fight crime13 is with a police force that has a14 cooperative relationship with the15 community, which means communication,16 which Commissioner Ramsey certainly has17 been working on. But it also means18 accountability, and that is something19 that I think this community has not had20 from the Police Department.21 The new plan that has been put22 forward certainly has some excellent23 strategies for putting that kind of24 accountability into place. It doesn't25 206 12/14/10 - PUBLIC SAFETY - BILL 100722, ETC.1 have any deadlines in it. I'm wondering2 when these things that -- we heard a lot3 of things, we want to do this and we want4 to do that. We are interested at this5 point in results.6 This Administration has been7 here for nearly three years, and8 certainly the problems with the9 Philadelphia Police Department and its10 relationship with the community have been11 in existence much longer than that and12 have been known much longer than that.13 When this Administration first14 came in, when Commissioner Ramsey first15 came in and proposed a crime plan for16 dealing with what was then a crisis in17 crime, particularly violent crime in this18 city, one of the things we did at the19 ACLU was put forth a public call for an20 accountability plan. I can't tell you21 how happy I am to see an accountability22 plan from the Philadelphia Police, but23 the proof, of course, will be in the24 results.25 207 12/14/10 - PUBLIC SAFETY - BILL 100722, ETC.1 I'm very happy in particular to2 see the new means of the public making3 complaints to the police. We have talked4 to many, many, many people with5 complaints about the conduct of6 Philadelphia police officers, ranging7 from simple rudeness to unnecessary8 violence. The vast majority of these9 people are completely terrified at the10 idea of walking into a police district11 office to file a complaint. The idea12 that they can now do that through a13 hotline, over the Internet, that is a14 huge improvement.15 I've also spoken to many people16 who have gone to police district offices17 to file complaints and they have been met18 with resistance, with discouragement,19 with efforts to talk them out of it, even20 though very polite and at times with21 downright threats.22 This is not always the case.23 There are -- there is -- no one wants to24 paint a generalization that says every25 208 12/14/10 - PUBLIC SAFETY - BILL 100722, ETC.1 police officer misbehaves, every2 complaint is dealt with improperly. None3 of that is true. Unfortunately, it4 happens often enough and the consequences5 don't follow often enough that what the6 public sees is a lack of accountability.7 Obviously Philadelphia8 residents --9
Ma'am, if10 I can just ask you to wrap it up as soon11 as you can, please.12
Because a15 lot of people are complaining that16 they're waiting a long time. Thank you.17
And I have every18 sympathy with them.19 I've said the most important20 thing I have to say. We all know the21 history of problems with this Police22 Department. We certainly trust in the23 genuineness of the statements here by24 everyone associated with the Police25 209 12/14/10 - PUBLIC SAFETY - BILL 100722, ETC.1 Department that they want to fix the2 problem. The question is, will there be3 a follow-through, and that's why I ask4 this Committee, please, to follow through5 on your investigation.6
Thank7 you.8 I think Councilman Jones, you9 had a question for one of the witnesses.10
No. I'm11 going, for brevity, to hold it and I'll12 talk to you guys separately. Thank you13 so much for your testimony.14
I am highly21 opposed to the stop and frisk policy.22 Why can't it be stop and say good23 morning?24 (Applause.)25 210 12/14/10 - PUBLIC SAFETY - BILL 100722, ETC.1
I mean,2 oftentimes stop and frisk is simply a3 pre-determination that person is guilty4 of doing something. Why can't you just5 say hi? I mean, hello. Good morning.6 Good afternoon. How are things going?7 Not, What do you have on you?8
The next12 people I have on the list, Latasha13 Williams, is she here?14 (No response.)15
Hugh16 Giordano or a representative of Green17 Party? Okay. They're here. Greg18 Brinkley? I think I saw Greg. I thought19 I saw him before. Greg Brinkley here?20 No.21 The National Lawyers Guild,22 anyone representing them? Okay. And I'm23 probably going to say this wrong, and I24 apologize ahead of time, Sweit Adeen25 211 12/14/10 - PUBLIC SAFETY - BILL 100722, ETC.1 Muhammad (ph), the Muslim League of2 Voters, anyone here representing them?3 (No response.)4
No?5 Okay. Why don't we start with you two.6 And I hate to do this, but, again, we got7 people complaining. The Chair of the8 Committee first set a three-minute rule.9 I'd really like to try to stick to that.10 Okay? I think you could say it in three11 minutes.12 If you could --13
Very well.14 I'll be glad to. I'll do my best.15 Good afternoon, Councilmembers.16 I welcome the opportunity to come here17 and testify as a representative of the18 National Lawyers Guild.19 Just to give you some20 perspective, my name is --21
Could you22 just identify yourself for the record.23
I will. My24 name is Paul Hetznecker. I have been25 212 12/14/10 - PUBLIC SAFETY - BILL 100722, ETC.1 practicing as a criminal defense attorney2 and civil rights attorney in the City of3 Philadelphia for almost a quarter4 century. I began my career at the5 Defender's Association of Philadelphia.6 I spent six years there. I was in the7 Special Defense Unit before I left to go8 into private practice. And in private9 practice, I have continued since 1993 to10 represent individuals in the Court of11 Common Pleas in criminal matters, in12 federal court both at trial and on13 appeal, and also in litigating and14 prosecuting civil rights cases on behalf15 of individuals in the City of16 Philadelphia.17 Let me just talk a little bit18 about the National Lawyers Guild, and19 I'll try to be as brief as possible.20 The National Lawyers Guild is21 an organization of lawyers that has been22 committed to fighting for social justice23 since the 1930s. Lawyers from the Guild24 have played an important role in25 213 12/14/10 - PUBLIC SAFETY - BILL 100722, ETC.1 progressive movements in this country,2 such as the Labor Movement in the 1930s3 and '40s, the Civil Rights Movement in4 the 1950s and '60s, the Anti-War Movement5 in the '60s and '70s. Lawyers from the6 Guild have been instrumental in7 advocating for the rights of the poor,8 disenfranchised and oppressed in our9 society. The protection of civil10 liberties has been an important part of11 that mission.12 Guild civil rights lawyers have13 long been at the forefront of combatting14 police misconduct for decades in this15 country. The Guild sponsors the National16 Police Accountability Project, which is17 specifically designed to combat police18 misconduct and the culture of abuse that19 has developed in so many police20 departments throughout this country. The21 mission of the Guild, and I hope all who22 cherish our civil rights in this country,23 is to end police abuse through24 coordinated legal action, public25 214 12/14/10 - PUBLIC SAFETY - BILL 100722, ETC.1 education and support for grassroots2 community organizing, confronting police3 misconduct.4 In order to combat police5 misconduct, it must first be understood.6 In offering this testimony, I bring7 almost a quarter century of experience as8 a criminal defense attorney and civil9 rights attorney. Two weeks ago I settled10 the civil rights case where the City of11 Philadelphia settled with respect to two12 officers who were defendants in the case,13 each of which had at least six complaints14 against them, none of them founded, none15 of them sustained. That's not unusual,16 unfortunately, in my experience.17 And I don't offer just18 anecdotal experience. I offer everyday19 confrontation of police abuse in the20 courtroom as a criminal defense attorney21 in violation of our Fourth Amendment22 rights and also as a civil rights23 attorney litigating cases that range from24 wrongful death all the way down to an25 215 12/14/10 - PUBLIC SAFETY - BILL 100722, ETC.1 illegal stop and frisk.2 So that's my experience, and I3 offer my testimony based on that4 experience.5 And this does not disparage the6 well and good intentions of the command7 structure of the Police Department.8 Everett Gillison and I were colleagues at9 the Defender's Association for many10 years, but I stand in opposition to the11 culture that has developed within the12 Police Department for decades and has13 been maintained, despite the reforms that14 have been implemented over the years,15 including the Police Advisory Commission.16
That's17 your whistle there, your 30-second18 warning.19
If you22 have written testimony, you can submit it23 and it will be made part of the record.24
If I could25 216 12/14/10 - PUBLIC SAFETY - BILL 100722, ETC.1 just offer some of the highlights.2
Very well.5 A couple of things that have6 been offered in testimony today. One is7 the code of silence, which I think is8 entrenched within the Police Department9 and the police culture. It has to be10 combatted systematically.11 I laud the Police Department12 and the Commissioner for suggesting that13 the code of silence should be undermined14 by their new measure, and I applaud their15 efforts and I hope, as Mary Catherine16 Roper suggested from the ACLU, that a17 hearing in a year from now will be a good18 measure of whether or not that entrenched19 code of silence has been undermined.20 Secondly, there must be21 adequate supervision. An Internal22 Affairs complaint is not enough to have a23 review of -- an adequate review of police24 misconduct in the City. It doesn't do25 217 12/14/10 - PUBLIC SAFETY - BILL 100722, ETC.1 it.2 (Applause.)3
And, in fact,4 oftentimes a referral to Internal Affairs5 ends up being nothing more than6 ratification of that misconduct because7 there isn't in place the proper8 independent accountability that's been9 discussed, and, more importantly, there10 needs to be transparency. There isn't11 transparency in the structure of the12 decision-making that goes on in the13 Police Department.14 And, again, I laud the15 Commissioner's statements this morning16 about some of the reforms and some of the17 statements that Deputy Commissioner18 Gillison has suggested that will19 essentially create this transparency and20 accountability. But what I've seen over21 the years through all the cases that I've22 handled, the cases that I will handle23 tomorrow in the Court of Common Pleas or24 the lawsuits that I will bring on the25 218 12/14/10 - PUBLIC SAFETY - BILL 100722, ETC.1 numerous complaints that I get from2 civilians in my office every week about3 police abuse, what I hope to see is4 undermining that culture, is that a5 re-emergence of a new culture within the6 Police Department that lauds the7 principles of accountability and8 transparency.9 Thank you.10
Thank11 you.12 Mr. Giordano. Again, three13 minutes, please.14
I'll try.15 My name is Hugh Giordano. I am16 a representative of the Green Party,17 which is an independent third party, and18 one of our main planks is social justice.19 I am also a union representative, and I'm20 a longtime citizen of Philadelphia.21 I'm here today to speak about22 stop and frisk, which I think is a direct23 attack on the civil liberties and24 freedoms of the people of Philadelphia.25 219 12/14/10 - PUBLIC SAFETY - BILL 100722, ETC.1 And I have a real problem with it, and2 I'll give you a direct reason why.3 When I was 16 years old, I am4 from -- and I'll say, I'm from the5 Roxborough part of the City,6 predominantly middle-class, working-class7 white neighborhood. But stop and frisk8 goes beyond racial barriers. I think9 it's ageism and urbanism is attacked.10 When I was 16, I had my11 license, just got a brand new Monte12 Carlo, which was not brand new, but 1971.13 I thought I was the man, had the two14 diamond earrings in my ear, going to pick15 up a girl for a date. And as I was16 driving, I was looked at by a white17 officer -- and, again, I am white -- and18 he did an immediate U-turn. I looked19 down at my gauge. I was going 23 miles20 per hour in a 25. I'll never forget this21 day. I was pulled over. He came up to22 my window and said, Chico, I think this23 car is stolen. First thing he said to24 me.25 220 12/14/10 - PUBLIC SAFETY - BILL 100722, ETC.1 Now, I'm not Hispanic, and at2 16, I thought, you know -- I didn't think3 of anything that way.4 When he told me to get out of5 the car and put my hands on the hood on6 Ridge Avenue in front of Kathy7 Manderino's office at 5 o'clock on a8 Friday, it was embarrassing, and it made9 me hostile as a young man and gave me10 that, you know -- young people get upset11 about this type of thing, and that's why12 you have a disconnect between the13 community and the police, and that's why14 you have that don't snitch mentality.15 And so through that, it really16 opened my eyes that I grew up real fast.17 Now, ten years later, I'm 26.18 I see an African American cop pull over19 an Hispanic male in Roxborough and yell20 and scream at him because he couldn't21 speak English, saying, This is America,22 Homeboy. You don't like it, go back.23 So there is intolerance still,24 ten years later, and I saw it on the25 221 12/14/10 - PUBLIC SAFETY - BILL 100722, ETC.1 street.2 Here's the real issue: Stop3 and frisk is a Band-Aid on a gunshot4 wound. City Council may not be the law,5 but you create the law, and it's your6 responsibility as a politician and as a7 leader to make laws that protect your8 citizens. This is a representative9 democracy and it's your job to protect10 them.11 I would like to see real issues12 be talked about. Stop and frisk --13
I'll wrap it up.16 We need to fight poverty. You17 want to abolish crime, not just stop it18 and hold it down, you want to abolish it?19 Good jobs, good schools, that's what you20 need to do. It's an attack on the poor.21 Stop and frisk is a Jim Crow law. That's22 what it is, and the Green Party stands23 against that.24 (Applause.)25 222 12/14/10 - PUBLIC SAFETY - BILL 100722, ETC.1
Thank2 you. Thank you both for your testimony.3 Thank you. I'm sorry to rush4 you along, but, again, there's a lot of5 people, and as you can see, some people6 have already left because they couldn't7 wait.8 The next ones I have on my9 list, Basiymah Bey, is she here? I'm10 sorry again if I mispronounce a name.11 Abdus Sabur. Is that you, sir?12
Okay.14 Christopher Brown, is Christopher Brown15 here?16 (No response.)17 (Witness approached witness18 table.)19 COUNCILMAN GREENLEE:20 Mr. Sabur, why don't you start. Just21 identify yourself for the record and22 proceed. I understand Ms. Bey may be in23 the hallway. So, please, start.24
Good afternoon.25 223 12/14/10 - PUBLIC SAFETY - BILL 100722, ETC.1
Well, the6 hearing started at 10 o'clock, sir.7 That's why I'm trying to move people8 along.9
I know.10 We heard a whole lot about the11 Police Department. I just want to add a12 little bit to it.13 My son, Askia Sabur, was14 traumatized by the Police Department. He15 suffered six staples in the back of his16 head from a beat-down by the 19th17 District police officer. Myself, I18 charged the other police officers that19 was with him to be irresponsible in not20 stopping him.21 I'm really concerned, being a22 citizen of Philadelphia, the City of23 Brotherly Love, as one of the gentlemen24 said, that's not too brotherly nor25 224 12/14/10 - PUBLIC SAFETY - BILL 100722, ETC.1 sisterly. I have some serious concerns.2 I have concerns about how the police are3 not being fair dealing with the people4 that pay their salary. I too would like5 to see some kind of law in place by the6 City Council to change some of these7 attitudes and behaviors. One of the ways8 you can start, as far as I'm concerned,9 you could stop the drop and frisk10 situation, and, two, you can lock up the11 cops that's mistreating the citizens of12 Philadelphia.13 (Applause.)14
I don't understand.15 I just can't get it. I'm trying very,16 very hard to contain myself. It's a very17 emotional situation. If any of you have18 sons and your son has been beat down by19 somebody that you think is supposed to20 protect them, you tell me how you feel.21 (Applause.)22
I'm not college23 like you people. You people are college.24 I went to Ben Franklin and I quit because25 225 12/14/10 - PUBLIC SAFETY - BILL 100722, ETC.1 I wanted a job. I wanted something else2 in my life. I wanted to be a man in my3 life, but you people beat my child down4 and think that he's supposed to accept5 it.6 If you got a cop that's wrong,7 get rid of them, because he's no good for8 the Police Department.9 (Applause.)10
Do you understand?11 I would like to see something better, and12 right now I don't see it.13 Police brutality in14 Philadelphia is at an all-time high, and15 you want to sugarcoat it and make it seem16 like nothing is going on. It is going17 on. Racism is going on in America. Not18 just in Philadelphia but in America, all19 over, and you need to stop it, if you20 have any power. Otherwise, you're just21 puppets on a string dancing by a mensural22 man that's behind you.23 (Applause.)24
That's what I'm25 226 12/14/10 - PUBLIC SAFETY - BILL 100722, ETC.1 talking about. Yes, I'm a member of the2 nation of Islam. You might wonder where3 is the Muslims at in all of this? Their4 children are getting beat. Well, I'm5 standing up, and I'm standing up for my6 child, my family and myself, and if you7 got any gumption, you'll stop all this8 here namby-pamby talking around around9 here and do something about the police10 officers that are not doing anything for11 the people in the City of Philadelphia.12 Do you have any questions for13 me?14 (Applause.)15
There21 wasn't. There wasn't any. Ms. Bey,22 please.23
Just a moment, sir.24 What I will not condone, brother, sir, is25 227 12/14/10 - PUBLIC SAFETY - BILL 100722, ETC.1 to sit here and be adopting to a rude2 form of introduction. The gentleman was3 speaking, and if you are finished with4 him, I think appropriately so, then5 someone need to say to him that there is6 no more questions for him.7
As we did12 in all panels, ma'am, we waited for the13 panels to finish and then we ask14 questions. We did that --15
So that is the16 process. He didn't know that. He's17 asking did anybody have any questions.18
If there19 are any questions after both of you are20 finished, the Councilmembers will ask.21
Please24 identify --25 228 12/14/10 - PUBLIC SAFETY - BILL 100722, ETC.1
Please4 identify yourself for the record and5 proceed, please.6
My name is Basiymah7 Muhammad Bey. 15 I was first brought into police16 brutality at the age of 12 years old. My17 father told me the next time, turn my18 head. 1 for our community since I was a child,2 and I'm still an advocate. Today I sit3 as the Fourth Assistant President-General4 to the World Body of UNIA. 7 I'm here today to testify on8 behalf of my family. My daughter, my9 son, my children, my husband have all10 been violated by the 22nd, 23rd Police11 District where I reside at now in the12 Philadelphia area. We were told that13 this process would not go back but for14 five years. 18 The police ran in my home19 trying to give my son a burglary case,20 but because his name is Kassim Muhammad,21 they wanted to make him have a case. He22 never had a case in his life. At 2123 years old he never had a record. 1 fought it. Fortunately, we had some2 police officers that was in our house who3 did not act as ugly as the others. 6 But they did come back. They7 came back and they drug my husband8 outside. They drug my children down the9 steps, my nephew, who I raised, student10 at Strawberry Mansion High School, "A"11 student, never had a problem with the12 police in his life was drugged out of his13 house. We were raided by hoodwinks, I14 like to call them, but you all call them15 the -- what's that hit list? I'm sorry,16 but I'm lost for names. When they come17 in with those shotguns, level one, level18 two, level three? 19 SWAT team came in my home and injected my20 young nephew, who had never had a case in21 his life, took him, falsified his age,22 falsified his crime, took him out of our23 house and sent him up on State Road for24 six months. Why? 1 most families within the African2 community don't have $2,500 to throw out3 every time they come in and snatch one of4 us up. 6 They came back. They came back7 for my son, Kassim Muhammad, who had no8 charges, and they brought him and dragged9 him through the courts. 11 Just recently, two years ago,12 my daughter, Tayyaba Muhammad, was13 brutally beat by the police officers in14 the Center City area. They drug my15 daughter up and down the street. 4 My husband at the time went and5 hired a lawyer. We won our case. 9 They wanted us to identify ourself again10 just for the record. 15 I was stunned. 18 One and one is two. You don't19 need to read between the lines. 1 there is not enough information in our2 community about this situation. 6 We went to the Clerk Court,7 only to find out that there was just four8 little measly ads that went out in the9 newspaper that identified that these10 hearings will go on. Four. 12 It is appalling to me as a13 mother and certainly as an advocate that14 when Commissioner Ramsey and his team was15 to go out in the community and speak to16 the people, you seen it all over17 everywhere. 19 Where's our City Council20 representing us as a people? )24
I made personal calls25 234 12/14/10 - PUBLIC SAFETY - BILL 100722, ETC.1 to some City Council members asking them2 for their support to help us to put the3 information out in their areas to their4 constituents, and they reassured me that5 once the hearings go down, that it would6 be advertised in the paper.7 My concern is that advertising,8 that's not enough. We need a press9 conference. We need the City of10 Philadelphia representatives to say to11 the people that we are with you, that12 this is what we are doing.13 This today to me -- and14 somebody have to tell me when my time is15 up, because I'm longwinded and I started16 off by saying I got a lot on my mind.17
I didn't18 want to interrupt you, ma'am, but your19 time is up.20
Well, please give me21 a second, sir. I'll close out with this.22
When you sit here and24 you ask for the representatives to listen25 235 12/14/10 - PUBLIC SAFETY - BILL 100722, ETC.1 to the people, where are the people at?2 No, we're not here. This is a drop in3 the bucket of what is being bombarded4 with the abuse that goes on inside of our5 community.6 I called the Hispanic7 community. Where's the8 representatives -- where is Fumos and all9 of the Hispanic representatives for the10 people in this city? Why isn't the11 Hispanic community sitting at these12 tables? Why aren't they calling -- we're13 not having no ethnico separation to be14 able to get heard. This is the15 constituents of Philadelphia's concerns16 and complaints.17 When I met with Ramsey's18 officer -- Commissioner Ramsey when he19 first came to the City of Philadelphia at20 William Penn High School, I looked that21 gentleman in his eye and I hoped that he22 would read my sincerity. Sir, we need23 not to have the continuous brutal24 relationship with the police officers in25 236 12/14/10 - PUBLIC SAFETY - BILL 100722, ETC.1 your term. We need a stop to this. If2 he would listen and took in consideration3 that the people are not just always,4 Well, I'm for the police officers. I'm5 not always right. I have five children6 and two that I raised. We're not always7 right, so we have to be reprimanded.8 Aren't we, Brother Abdus?9 If the police officers are a10 problem, remove them. This has to stop.11 If they would have listened to us way12 beforehand, Askia Sabur would not be a13 victim of the brutal police talent that14 we have been seeing in this city and15 longer than I have been a young child.16 I'm here today. I would not17 leave. This is deplorable. We sat up18 here. We listened to all of this. The19 people called for this. This was20 supposed to be the people's hearing. We21 had to go through the whole entire22 morning of a structure of every City23 official in the house. You got every24 representative of the Police Department25 237 12/14/10 - PUBLIC SAFETY - BILL 100722, ETC.1 right here, every last one of them.2 Whichever one don't care to handle, the3 other one there to back them up.4 This is not no charade. They5 know what time it is. They know what's6 going on with our city. Look what7 happened to Jewell Williams, Jannie8 Blackwell, and the list goes on and on9 and on. This have to stop. Represent or10 get off the pot.11
Okay. I16 know Councilmembers have questions. Just17 for the record, there were press releases18 sent out to all the various media outlets19 on this. It's up to them obviously20 whether they cover it, but there were21 notices, I know, given out on the radio,22 because I've heard them.23 Hold on one second.24 And also just to let you know,25 238 12/14/10 - PUBLIC SAFETY - BILL 100722, ETC.1 sir, we appreciate your testimony. You2 know, there cannot be comment officially3 on any case that's under investigation4 right now.5
And I also want to13 thank Councilman Curtis Jones, who is a14 dear friend of mine, and I respect him15 greatly, and Councilwoman Donna Reed16 Miller, I thank you and I thank you. I17 thank you as well, dear brother. But18 something has to be done.19
We can't live like22 this, because it appears to me that the23 Police Department, if they continue on24 going on the way that they're going,25 239 12/14/10 - PUBLIC SAFETY - BILL 100722, ETC.1 they're facing a situation that's going2 to be very, very critical. It's going to3 be very, very critical. We need to be4 more together as opposed to being apart.5 Because, I mean, the scare tactics that I6 was hearing from one of the7 representatives from FOP talking about8 them afraid to go home, I mean, they'll9 be scared in the streets, working in the10 streets and they might not go home. I11 mean, I'd be scared to go outside. I may12 not be able to go outside because of the13 Police Department may shoot at somebody14 and a stray bullet will hit me.15 I mean, these are the things16 that go on in our city, and it shouldn't17 be. It shouldn't be.18 I mean, I hope I have said19 something that touched some people's20 mind, maybe not your heart but touched21 your mind, and we need the right-minded22 people out here serving us in the City of23 Philadelphia.24 Thank you.25 240 12/14/10 - PUBLIC SAFETY - BILL 100722, ETC.1 (Applause.)2
That's all10 right.11 First of all, on behalf of12 myself, I feel your pain as a father.13 Don't and can't talk about the14 circumstances with the case, but no one15 wants their child abused. And to16 whatever pain that is, I offer my17 personal apology.18 I would like to know, if there19 were three things that you could20 recommend to this body that you'd like to21 see changed -- and I mentioned to the22 Police Department, attitudes are harder23 to change. What laws, rules would you24 recommend to us to consider changing, or25 241 12/14/10 - PUBLIC SAFETY - BILL 100722, ETC.1 processes? I mean, share that with us2 for the record.3
That's a fantastic4 question. I think we covered it since5 the testimonies and whatnot been going6 on. The Philadelphia Police Department7 and others have to get to know their8 constituents, have to get to know the9 people. You want to have a relationship10 with the people, but I don't think you're11 going to get that if people are being12 beat down in the street. You have to13 kind of like reevaluate how you want to14 deal with the people.15 I don't know the answer, to be16 perfectly honest with you. I don't even17 know your process in here. I saw a18 caucus room where you go and talk next19 door, but the police also have a caucus20 room. It's called their district, and21 some people, whatever they learned in22 school, when they get out of school, they23 say you can throw all that away. You24 know, this is the real world. This is25 242 12/14/10 - PUBLIC SAFETY - BILL 100722, ETC.1 how we handle criminals, and in most2 cases, the criminals are my next-door3 neighbor, you know, or some other young4 person.5 I think we have to stop all the6 foolishness that we're doing. Whether7 you black, white or candy-striped, it8 don't make no difference. You got to be9 a human being first. You got people10 talking about, Well, I'm white and -- you11 got to be a human being first, you know.12 We all have that.13 And, I mean, I really don't14 have the answer. Maybe at some other15 point in time talking with other people16 and getting some ideas I could sit with17 you and maybe some other Councilpeople18 and maybe we can come up with a plan that19 we can execute.20
Because21 that's very important to us.22 Councilwoman Miller, myself and all the23 members of this Committee want this not24 to be just an exercise in venting, but25 243 12/14/10 - PUBLIC SAFETY - BILL 100722, ETC.1 what I think we are sincerely trying to2 do is look at the policy and figure out3 what can be changed for the better, what4 can be changed so that you understand the5 rules, we understand the process and to6 do something substantive so that -- you7 said since you were eight years old.8
Twelve years10 old. I don't want my grand-kids growing11 up in that kind of environment or sense12 of mistrust. I want them to be safe,13 safe from people in the community and14 safe from those sent to the community to15 protect them, and that's what I want as a16 human being.17
Could we possibly18 have a meeting later on down the road --19 it don't have to be tomorrow -- and we20 can talk over some things? Could we have21 some grassroot people that we can get22 together, we can talk over some things?23 It's very important. And if we have a24 representative of the Police Department25 244 12/14/10 - PUBLIC SAFETY - BILL 100722, ETC.1 to be there, somebody that's sincere2 that's going to get the information out3 and he's not going to be looked at as4 though he's a detriment to the gang.5 That's the way they perpetrate6 themselves, as a gang, you know, and it7 ain't -- it's not good. It's not good.8 You got to come up with some other kind9 of stuff.10
May I interject for a11 moment just on that same question? I12 think in a real form of reality is that13 the relationship that we've had with --14 and I speak on "we" as the black15 community in particular, but in general,16 the exercising of format that the police17 use against the people need to be looked18 at.19 You all asked quite a bit of20 questions up here in terms of process and21 procedures of handling different things,22 but the bottom line is is that I think23 one of the first things that came to my24 mind is that we've been talking about25 245 12/14/10 - PUBLIC SAFETY - BILL 100722, ETC.1 stop and frisk. Before that, we was2 talking about driving while black.3 Before that there, it was because you was4 just black.5 So whenever we look at these6 situations that we see generation to7 generation that we get new stereotypes8 and titles to continue on the oppression9 that goes on with the people, then I say10 that we have to look at us as people and11 stop looking at us as slaves in the City.12 And this is the working relationship that13 we've always had with the Police14 Department. The last 30 years or so15 we've had black police officers that has16 been hired throughout the City of17 Philadelphia, our way in history in terms18 of the numbers, some of my families and19 friends who have joined in on the police20 forces, but nothing has changed. The21 brutal beat-down that goes on in the 22nd22 District, just recently a medical doctor23 at Temple University, his family member,24 he allowed us to know, was arrested in25 246 12/14/10 - PUBLIC SAFETY - BILL 100722, ETC.1 the 22nd District and had a nightstick2 shoved up his rectum. Well, I was upset3 about that, but it was certainly nothing4 new to my ear. I grew up with that type5 of misbehavior and brutal behavior6 towards our people.7 So I think the Police8 Department needs to be re-advised. We9 got this whole thing is, you tell the10 people that we must tell. We got to stop11 this don't snitch. But I got a problem,12 because inside the Police Department we13 have a sophisticated code that's called14 code of silence. They don't tell them to15 snitch, but they know they better not.16 So I'm saying, you can sit here17 and watch what happened to Sabur, Askia18 Sabur, and you had all those police19 officers standing around, not one20 officer, not one officer threw they body21 on that brother, took the risk for what22 was right. Nobody didn't say that every23 last one of them was going to be24 prosecuted for conspiracy to assassinate25 247 12/14/10 - PUBLIC SAFETY - BILL 100722, ETC.1 this brother's child.2 So the working relationship of3 how it deals with us as constituents and4 the privileges that the police have to5 beat, maim and sometime even kill us has6 to be looked at. Something wrong with7 the whole analysis.8 We are human beings. We're not9 dogs. We're not slaves. We have more10 black electoral officials representing us11 in this time and this day than we've ever12 had in history. Look what we dealing13 with. Why isn't this room filled up?14 When we had those meetings where the City15 officials came out to speak to us, you16 can't tell me about no little newspaper17 article or they only went out to -- you18 had massive advertising going on, because19 you wanted the people to hear and be20 pacified from the police officer's21 strokes. Well, we're saying that we want22 the people to hear that they have a right23 to stand up against those licks and24 lashes that they get, and that the City25 248 12/14/10 - PUBLIC SAFETY - BILL 100722, ETC.1 Council should have came along with us as2 advocates and said to us that we stand3 with you on these concerns and we will4 have a press conference and allow the5 people know that the City Council is6 representing the very best interests of7 the constituents. They have to start by8 being honest and being real about what9 we're dealing with.10
Speaking of honest,11 I just wanted to ask in regards to12 Councilwoman Donna Reed Miller in regards13 to this 2009 Bill 080795, what does that14 give the police officers in regards to an15 Executive Order?16
I'm17 sorry, sir. I don't know bills by18 numbers.19
It's just22 too many numbers to remember, too many23 bills. I'd have to read it actually.24
It's an Executive25 249 12/14/10 - PUBLIC SAFETY - BILL 100722, ETC.1 Order in regards to the drop, stop and2 frisk situation. I think that's3 something that we need to ponder over and4 see if we can do some alteration in5 regards to that and possibly maybe change6 the format or maybe have some other7 peoples involved in it.8
Okay. I9 want to call on Councilman Clarke,10 because he has to leave. I don't want to11 miss your point. Earlier you did say12 something about meeting, and I think13 that's probably a good idea.14
Thank you,19 Councilwoman.20 With respect to what you just21 referenced, if it's an Executive Order,22 it's not a bill. The Executive Order is23 issued by the Administration without24 involvement of City Council.25 250 12/14/10 - PUBLIC SAFETY - BILL 100722, ETC.1
I know that3 one bill that we did pass was the4 creation of, per the Mayor's request, for5 certain emergency powers, but that6 related to things like floods and7 emergency, but nothing related to police.8 And that was a concern. We were asked to9 do that. We wanted to make sure that it10 had nothing to do with the citizens of11 the City of Philadelphia.12
Well, I just wanted13 to say that. If it's one thing, it may14 turn out to be something other. So I15 think you have to be specific.16
Yeah, but17 it was nothing that we -- I just wanted18 to -- I want to reference the fact that19 there were some concerns about our20 process, Council today, and I actually21 heard early on in the day by a couple of22 residents in the audience about the fact23 that Council was kind of monopolizing the24 level of conversation, and it is right25 251 12/14/10 - PUBLIC SAFETY - BILL 100722, ETC.1 that this was characterized as an2 opportunity for people to come in and3 talk about the concerns that they had4 about the relationships with the police,5 and one of the things that Councilmembers6 do, we do listen. In spite of the fact7 that some people don't think that we do,8 we do listen. And in deference to the9 Chair, my assumption is that, one, there10 will be follow-up subsequent11 conversations in a very public way, one,12 because the Police Department has13 indicated there are a number of things14 that they're prepared to do and are in15 the process of doing, and we'd like to16 have that documented in some response in17 a very public way.18 Two, I think that we need to19 review all of the information that's been20 put before us today and, most recently,21 the conversation about having a separate22 dialogue.23
And I think25 252 12/14/10 - PUBLIC SAFETY - BILL 100722, ETC.1 the next level of public conversation2 should -- although we want to encourage3 people to continue to talk about these4 issues, it should probably have some5 portions of it to be a solutions-based6 type of public dialogue, because at the7 end of the day, the fact that, as you8 say, we continue -- Basiymah, since you9 were 12 years old. We grew up in the10 same neighborhood, so I understand the11 concern. At some point, we got to get a12 handle on this. At some point, we have13 to set a timeline on resolution to this.14 We can't just keep talking about it and15 talking about it --16
-- coming18 up with ideas and nothing ever happens,19 because I don't want my kids and you20 all's kids to be sitting here.21 So I agree with that22 wholeheartedly, and I know that23 Councilmembers are committed either in24 this format or in another format.25 253 12/14/10 - PUBLIC SAFETY - BILL 100722, ETC.1 One of the things that we as2 Council did understand throughout a lot3 of the budget problems, there were a lot4 of cuts early on. We understood that we5 had to get out of this building and go6 out there in the neighborhoods, and we7 had very successful hearings out there8 where a lot of people felt real9 comfortable coming to a church or some10 other place within their area.11 So not speaking for the Chair,12 but I think that we will be prepared to13 be accommodating in terms of being able14 to have that conversation out in the15 neighborhood.16
One brick by brick.17 You know, one at a time. It doesn't18 matter, as long as we're building the19 right house.20
Okay. All21 right. But I just want to thank you all22 for your testimony.23
No. Thank you.24 Thank you for allowing us to come before25 254 12/14/10 - PUBLIC SAFETY - BILL 100722, ETC.1 you, and I'm just looking forward to2 meeting.3
Right.4 And I just want to say too that we thank5 you for coming in, not just you but6 everybody for coming in. Unfortunately,7 these hearings take a long time.8
And it's10 not that anybody has abused the11 three-minute testimony, because they12 really haven't. It's just that we have a13 lot of questions.14
But I do16 want you to know that your testimony did17 not fall on deaf ears.18
And20 that's one of the reasons -- and also21 Sister Bey here, and everybody actually.22 And as Councilman said, we will be23 reviewing the notes of testimony to see24 what we really need to follow up on and25 255 12/14/10 - PUBLIC SAFETY - BILL 100722, ETC.1 figure out next steps. But this is not2 the last time.3 We've had something very4 similar to -- I think it was Sister Bey's5 suggestion before. We've had meetings.6 We've had discussions with the police and7 the community regarding certain types of8 behavior. We do not condone, and we just9 have to keep working at this.10
Back in12 the '70s, long before I became a13 Councilmember, I was very active with14 police issues up in Germantown. So we've15 been there, too.16
You know, I'm just19 grateful. You know, Dave Richardson come20 to mind as being a great activist for us,21 you know.22
Well, you23 know, I used to work with Dave and for24 Dave, and when we organized a meeting, we25 256 12/14/10 - PUBLIC SAFETY - BILL 100722, ETC.1 thought maybe a couple hundred people2 would show up, and thousands showed up,3 which, you know, kind of shocked us,4 but...5
Right.8 We don't need to do that. That's why9 we're having these hearings. We don't10 want to get to that point. We want to11 begin to start mending.12