COUNCIL OF THE CITY OF PHILADELPHIA2 COMMITTEE ON PUBLIC SAFETY3 Room 400, City Hall6 Philadelphia, Pennsylvania Wednesday, February 23, 20117 2:20 p.m. PRESENT: COUNCILWOMAN DONNA REED MILLER, CHAIR10 COUNCILWOMAN JANNIE BLACKWELL COUNCILMAN DARRELL CLARKE11 COUNCILMAN WILLIAM K. GREENLEE COUNCILMAN CURTIS JONES, JR.12 RESOLUTION 110088 - Resolution authorizing14 City Council's Committee on Public Safety to hold a public hearing to investigate the15 challenges and barriers effecting individuals with criminal records.16 - - -18 2
Good2 afternoon, everyone. I am Councilwoman3 Donna Reed Miller, Chair of the Public4 Safety Committee. Also in attendance to5 my right, Councilman Curtis Jones. To my6 left, Councilman Bill Greenlee, and we do7 expect a couple more people from this8 Committee as this hearing proceeds.9 Would the Clerk please read the10 title of this resolution.11
Resolution12 authorizing City Council's Committee on13 Public Safety to hold a public hearing to14 investigate the challenges and barriers15 effecting individuals with criminal16 records.17
Thank18 you.19 I'd like to begin by thanking20 those who have taken an interest in21 Philadelphia and especially with the22 problems that individuals with criminal23 records face.24 Individuals with criminal25 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 1100881 records are discriminated against in many2 ways, ranging from employment, housing,3 healthcare, public assistance. The list4 is long, truly unknown and constantly5 growing. Today, we will hear about the6 issues in more detail.7 Should individuals with8 criminal records be given a second9 chance? In most cases the answer should10 be yes.11 We're here today to discuss12 what folks with criminal records are13 faced with either after they have paid14 their debt to society or after being15 arrested or charged. When we help them,16 we help ourselves. Everyone ends up17 paying when individuals with criminal18 records are not helped. If we don't19 allow them to work or help themselves,20 then they are forced to either survive by21 doing whatever they can, and this usually22 means something illegal, or they are23 forced to depend on someone else such as24 public assistance. Unfortunately, as we25 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 1100881 will see today, they're usually not able2 to receive public assistance. So where3 does that put us or put the person with4 the criminal record? Back to helping5 themselves most times in an illegal6 manner.7 The most troubling part of this8 is that people with criminal records are9 discriminated against and nobody seems to10 mind. Unfortunately, discrimination11 carries many hats, and today, we will be12 looking at the blatant discrimination13 targeting individuals with records.14 It is somewhat disturbing that15 this discrimination is not even16 considered discrimination, but rather17 caution or exercise of good judgment.18 When ex-offenders return to19 prison, that means less money for20 schools, recreation centers, police or21 anything that may be necessary or dear to22 our hearts. This needs to be addressed,23 because no matter who is speaking on this24 issue, they always end up saying that25 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 1100881 these people keep returning to prison.2 Are you aware that it costs3 less to send someone to college than to4 house them in prison?5 With that in mind, are there6 any Councilmembers who wish to make a7 statement?8 Councilman Jones.9
Thank you,10 Madam Chairwoman. I just want to thank11 you for bringing this issue to your12 public attention. It is long overdue.13 You have been a champion of this issue14 and others in your chairmanship of Public15 Safety, and I want to thank you for16 making us tune in on this as a laser beam17 issue. And there are a lot of other18 advocates, but you have been for this19 Council a cheerleader for this type of20 hearing, and I'm thankful that we're21 finally having it.22
Thank23 you. Thank you, Councilman Jones.24 And also in attendance to my25 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 1100881 far right is Councilman Darrell Clarke.2 Does anyone else have -- any3 other Councilmember have anything they4 want to say?5
Thank you,9 Madam Chair.10 Real briefly, Madam Chair, I11 want to concur with my colleague12 Councilman Jones in terms of your13 steadfast commitment to this issue, your14 continuing to work, despite some of the15 odds presented before you, to work on16 this very important issue.17 I want to say like tomorrow, as18 a matter of fact, we're having a hearing19 I think on the Jobs Commission, and a20 part of that Jobs Commission's21 requirement is to come up with solutions22 for employment and for jobs, and we want23 to say that we need to have somebody a24 part of that discussion who represents25 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 1100881 individuals who are the least likely to2 be employed because of problems that3 they've had in their past.4 This whole issue with respect5 to block the box is clearly something6 that's a detriment in terms of people7 even getting to the next level of8 conversation about getting a job. We9 need to be creative in creating10 opportunities for people who can't even11 get to an interview. So I'm going to ask12 that in that discussion when we pass the13 bill as we create the Commission, that a14 representative who is going to represent15 the individuals who found themselves in16 this situation of, in some people's mind,17 being unemployable simply because they're18 not given a chance, be a part of that19 discussion so we can make sure that we20 got to come up with some very creative21 ways to get opportunities for people.22 Because they have a lot of people who23 have a lot of skills. If just given a24 chance, frankly speaking, they'd be25 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 1100881 productive employees and/or potentially2 productive property businessowners,3 because I think that a lot of us need to4 look at entrepreneurial opportunities.5 Not to go on, but I know that most of us,6 the guys in here, go to a barber shop,7 and one of the things that the barbers in8 my shop that I go to at Broad and9 Susquehanna, they talk about wanting to10 open up a barber shop, but they just11 don't have the capital to open up their12 own shop. I think if we can come up with13 strategies to allow them to do that, they14 would become businesspeople, and some of15 the challenges that they've had, they16 would be more likely to reach out to17 individuals who had similar challenges18 and hire them, and then you just go on19 and on down the line.20 So maybe we shouldn't just put21 our sole focus on trying to get people22 traditional jobs. Maybe we need to think23 outside of the box. So I would like to24 reach out to individuals who are here25 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 1100881 today to be a significant part of this2 discussion on creating job opportunities3 and employment opportunities for the4 people in the City of Philadelphia.5 Thank you, Madam Chair.6
Thank7 you. Thank you, Councilman Clarke.8 One announcement I'd like to9 make is that I actually was telling10 people that the "ban the box" legislation11 hearing is next week. Well, it's not12 next week, but we will make sure that13 everybody knows when it is. It will be14 in March. And, you know, that's the15 legislation that will address the16 question on the application about whether17 you've been arrested, whether you've been18 convicted or are you this or are you19 that. So we just want to make sure that20 everybody knows that it is not March the21 2nd, but we will get back to you.22 Okay. So now will the Clerk23 please call the first witnesses.24
We'll bring up as a25 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 1100881 panel, the first set is John Christmas2 representing Councilwoman Jannie3 Blackwell; Deputy Mayor of Public Safety,4 Everett Gillison; and Carolyn Harper from5 RISE.6 (Witnesses approached witness7 table.)8
Thank9 you, and you can proceed. John, you can10 go first, representing Councilwoman11 Blackwell. Just speak into the mike and12 identify yourself and proceed with your13 testimony.14
Yes, ma'am.15 Thank you. Again, my name is John16 Christmas. I'm an attorney in17 Councilwoman Jannie Blackwell's office18 and speaking on her behalf today. I want19 to thank the Committee and you, Madam20 Chairwoman Miller and other members of21 Public Safety, for this opportunity to22 speak on the Council Lady's behalf. She23 couldn't be here today, but wanted to24 offer her support for reentry-related25 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 1100881 programs and has been a strong proponent2 of defending the rights of ex-offenders3 and, in fact, has been a strong proponent4 of reentry-related activities out in5 Southwest most notably and more recently.6 So, again, she couldn't be here7 today, but just wanted all of you to8 be -- that she's here in spirit and wants9 to offer her support to the ex-offender10 community, and certainly as the hearings11 go forward, to support all of the12 legislation and the efforts to remove the13 barriers to allowing ex-offenders to14 return to their communities in a15 sustainable way.16 So thank you very much, Madam17 Chair.18
Thank19 you. Thank you, and thank Councilwoman20 Blackwell.21
Thank you very22 much, ma'am.23 COUNCILWOMAN MILLER:24 Mr. Gillison, you can proceed.25 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 1100881 DEPUTY
Thank2 you. Good afternoon, Councilwoman Miller3 and members of the Public Safety4 Committee. My name is Everett Gillison5 and I am the Deputy Mayor for Public6 Safety. 15 Ex-offenders who are determined16 to turn their lives around and become17 law-abiding, productive members of18 society oftentimes face considerable19 barriers. 23 Those with criminal records face24 difficulties in finding employment,25 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 1100881 obtaining adequate housing and enrolling2 in educational programs. 10 This Administration has a11 strong commitment to helping ex-offenders12 overcome barriers to reentry in their13 community and the working world. For14 this very reason, this Administration has15 established through Mayoral Executive16 Order the Office of Reintegration17 Services for Ex-Offenders, or RISE. The18 RISE office, located at 34 South 11th19 Street, operates a managed reintegration20 network. Essentially, RISE is tasked21 with building a network of service22 providers to assist ex-offenders. RISE23 clients are assessed in detail to24 determine the type and level and services25 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 1100881 that they need. 17 Employment - RISE provides job18 readiness training, job placement and job19 retention services. RISE offers a Job20 Club where participants may attend weekly21 refresher classes on job networking and22 interviewing skills. RISE operates a23 sheltered workshop with Goodwill24 Industries. Low-skilled participants are25 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 8 Vocational training - qualified9 RISE participants may enroll in our10 C-Tech program, which is a six-week11 training in telecommunications, data and12 cable installation. Upon successful13 completion of the training, participants14 receive a national industry15 certification. Additionally, RISE16 provides hospitality and culinary arts17 training. At the completion of this18 six-week training, participants earn19 their national industry Serv Safe20 certification. 25 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 1100881 Our Roots 2 Reentry program is a2 partnership with the Pennsylvania3 Horticultural Society and trains4 participants in horticulture and5 landscaping. 7 Partnership CDC provides8 participants with training in9 installation and maintenance of green10 roofs. Our partnership with Eastern11 University provided participants with12 paralegal training. Ex-offenders may13 earn their paralegal and legal secretary14 diploma. The American Cities Foundation15 also provides training in landscaping and16 water conservation. 25 17 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 1100881 Through our partnership with five2 faith-based and community-based3 organizations, RISE provides life coaches4 and mentors to our participants. All5 RISE participants also receive cognitive6 behavioral training through our CPR,7 which is short for Community and Personal8 Responsibility, program. Additionally,9 RISE assists participants with voter10 registration, makes available monthly HIV11 testing and treatment referrals, provides12 referrals for substance abuse testing and13 treatment, as well as housing, clothing,14 emergency shelter, behavioral and mental15 health services. 20 Although this Administration21 alone cannot eradicate all of the22 barriers faced by ex-offenders, it is23 hoped that the services provided by RISE24 will alleviate some of these barriers and25 18 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 1100881 allow participants a smoother road to2 reentry. This Administration is3 committed to reentry. 8 I will be happy answer any9 questions that the members of the10 Committee may have. 11
Okay. We12 will not have questions until --13 Ms. Harper, do you have any testimony?14
She's16 here just to answer any questions, if17 there was any.18
Okay.23 Thank you.24 I have a question. Basically,25 19 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 1100881 when you do your intake and you determine2 what someone's needs are and how to move3 them and get them involved in whatever4 phase of your program, what have been the5 main barriers to employment? Is it6 skills, competencies, knowledge, or what?7 DEPUTY
I'll8 let Ms. Harper -- I will say it's all of9 the above. The majority of the barriers10 right now as a result of the assessment11 that we did both within the prison and12 without the prison is literacy. We have13 quite a deficit. 18 We also have a problem with --19 there's just areas that the state has20 begun -- when you really look at an21 examination -- and I believe that22 Ms. Dietrich from the CLS gave me an23 analysis very early on when I was24 appointed Deputy Mayor, who indicated25 20 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 1100881 that somewhere around -- the barriers2 that the state has placed in place. If3 you get a conviction for X, you can't4 serve in this particular profession. 7 We started looking at all the8 things that you used to be able to do,9 and now the penalties are you can't get10 into a particular area that normally you11 would be able to do, because the fact of12 the matter is, the fact that you're an13 ex-offender should have no bearing on the14 fact that you can do the job. It is15 those kinds of things that we've been16 advocating. 22 I've looked and talked to23 people at PHA, and there is -- if you get24 a conviction for certain things in PHA,25 21 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 1100881 you can't live in PHA housing. 11 This has been something that12 has troubled me, and I've always -- I've13 talked about it for a long time. The14 mass incarceration that we did as a15 society starting in the late '70s and16 early '80s, where I spent most of my17 legal career, you really sit back and see18 that the expansion of people being placed19 in jail for -- whereas crime was really20 not going up to the extent that we were21 throwing people in jail, but now trying22 to get them out and trying to23 rehabilitate them and not having any24 money with which to do that, those are25 22 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 16 We are moving this thing17 forward, but we have to change the18 mindset of people that say that once you19 get a conviction, that we're no longer20 going to allow you to take part in21 society. We have to change that. 23 When I'm out talking in the community, I24 talk about it. At various churches that25 23 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 1100881 I go to, I ask my faith-based brothers2 and sisters to help me articulate why it3 is so important for us to provide these4 opportunities. 7 So I'm sorry that I -- I really8 feel this particular area. I think that9 the frustration is real. The barriers10 are real, but it really is not going to11 take legislation. 14
Well, I15 thank you for your response. I mean, we16 could feel the passion.17 So in working with the Center18 for Literacy and your partnership with19 the prisons, I'm sure they do have basic20 ed classes while someone is incarcerated,21 they have that opportunity, correct?22 DEPUTY
Are they24 doing the TABE testing?25 24 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 1100881 DEPUTY
Yes,2 they are. They're doing it in the prison3 as well. Yes, they're doing it as well4 inside the prison. We are expanding our5 commitment to literacy in the prison. As6 a matter of fact, I think it's either7 later this week or it might even be8 tomorrow, we will have a program at the9 prison where we're bringing together the10 Mayor's representatives on the Literacy11 Commission with those in the prison. I12 always tell people, please don't forget13 about my folks up at the prison when14 you're talking about literacy. It's not15 just the libraries that have to have16 literacy programs. It's inside. It's17 not just having great computers that are18 able to use the latest and greatest19 software. That has to be done inside.20 And I'm putting together a white paper21 for the new Secretary of the Commonwealth22 in order to hopefully have a partnership.23 Fifty percent of the people now24 who use the RISE program -- when we25 25 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 1100881 started out, it was about 80/20 between2 City folks who had county issues versus3 state. Right now, over 50 percent of the4 people in RISE are people who are coming5 home from state, and they give us no6 money at all, not a dime.7
Well, at8 one point the state actually talked about9 having reentry programs. So that10 actually has not happened?11 DEPUTY
No.12 They found that ours is much better and,13 therefore, they're using ours.14
So they15 should just give us the funding that they16 were --17 DEPUTY
Thank you,23 Madam Chair.24 Your history and track record25 26 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 1100881 in this issue is -- it speaks volumes of2 you. I happen to know your commitment to3 the issue, among other duties that you4 have.5 I have some questions that kind6 of help me put my arms around this whole7 concept and issue. First of all, how8 long has RISE been in existence?9 DEPUTY
As10 through the Executive Order, it's been --11 the Executive Order has been now a year12 and a half, almost two years.13
Reentry,20 okay.21 If I may, there's a couple of22 statistics. I saw in one package that23 there are somewhere between 250,000,24 300,000 ex-offenders in the City of25 27 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 1100881 Philadelphia.2 DEPUTY
That's5 correct?6 And for the record also, there7 are 50,000 or so active on probation,8 parole --9 DEPUTY
The two are15 probably -- and I'm guessing -- two16 different classifications that have17 different need sets?18 DEPUTY
They19 are, although I think that being on the20 inside, if you're still away up at the21 state, you're supposed to have certain22 things given to you and certain training.23 I have to ask what the state is doing.24 But I agree with you that it's probably25 28 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 1100881 two different cohorts.2
Let's go3 through -- I want to segregate and get4 back to those people who have completed5 whatever their obligations are to their6 reporting authorities. I want to go to,7 what is the difference -- describe for8 me, as you may or may not know -- and9 this is the kind of question that if10 someone else is better qualified at later11 testimony to enlighten this panel, that's12 fine.13 What's the difference between14 the federal reentry process, the state15 reentry process and the city/county16 process of reentry and services kind of17 that go with that?18 DEPUTY
The19 federal first. The federal has made a20 commitment through Judge Timothy Rice to21 have a Reentry Court. They try to22 pull -- much like we have in the state23 and local county through the First24 Judicial District, that we have25 29 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 1100881 identified certain specialty courts to2 handle specialty issues. We have a Drug3 Court. We have a Veterans Court. The4 federal put together a Reentry Court in5 order to have a judge who is supervising6 the probation and/or -- the current7 probation of the individual, keep them8 accountable on a weekly sometimes -- on a9 monthly, but mostly weekly basis. If10 there is a deviation, they actually11 provide additional services or they could12 take the person back into custody. It's13 the same approach we use with Drug Court,14 DUI Court and Veterans Court.15 The federal -- but they've16 identified certain partners that they've17 had for a long time that will provide18 opportunities for them to be employed.19 So their graduation rate through these20 programs, because they are showing that21 people can reenter society and get jobs22 and maintain those jobs for a long period23 of time, they're able to shorten -- the24 carrot and stick is, they shorten the25 30 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 1100881 amount of probation or parole that they2 are placed on in order to keep them on3 the straight and narrow.4 At the state level, there's no5 Reentry Court. Once you are in the state6 system, once you come back, you literally7 are -- the state Board of Parole or8 Probation serves as your probation and9 parole officers, and they are supposed to10 help. I know that under the former11 Secretary Ginault, she was trying to12 provide a basis to shift the probation13 and parole agents at the state level to14 almost a job-coaching and job-finding15 agency. There was some resistance16 culturally to doing that, because a lot17 of the agents see themselves as the law18 enforcement side rather than the19 supportive services side. But she was20 making some progress in doing that.21
So do I22 understand you to say they're more on the23 "We're going to maintain what you're24 supposed to do as opposed to life25 31 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 1100881 coaching you"?2 DEPUTY
Right.3 Exactly. Some would say they're not4 social workers. They'd rather be law5 enforcement, and never the twain shall6 meet, although I disagree with that.7 On the City side, the reason8 why we changed what was happening out at9 MORE is because instead of the idea being10 we will try to become a large city agency11 where everyone comes through and tried to12 refer out to various parties, we thought13 it best to build up capacity in the14 community, working with community15 agencies that are doing the work, and the16 idea was is that we would have money to17 hold them accountable for the outcomes of18 getting people jobs.19 We took a variety of an20 approach. We worked with America Works21 for Rapid Attachment to Work. They were22 able to get a number of jobs for people23 with minimum amount of supports being24 given. We were able to work with25 32 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 1100881 Goodwill, and they have a -- if you2 didn't have any -- you had low skills but3 we knew that you could actually do a job4 if you were trained properly, a sheltered5 workshop type of environment provided you6 with the means of having some money, but7 also getting yourself ready for life8 coaching, life skills and working while9 you are training yourself to walk that10 straight and narrow.11
So if I were12 to oversimplify, the feds have a master13 judge that really monitors the probation14 activity on a regular basis and have15 supportive services attached to it so16 that the people coming back have a17 reasonable chance of success.18 DEPUTY MAYOR GILLISON:19 Correct.20
Which cover21 the basic food groups of employment,22 housing, social supports.23 If I were to -- if I read your24 comments correctly, the state has a gap25 33 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 1100881 where they don't get in trouble, we ain't2 here to be your babysitter, and you're on3 your own kind of thing.4 DEPUTY
And that you6 have, at the local level, tried to mimic7 more of the federal. Is that a --8 DEPUTY
We are9 trying to provide the basis so that10 people know that there's one place they11 can go to get supportive services.12
And we15 will do two things. We will either test16 you, figure out your assessment and get17 you to the place you need to be in order18 to make sure that you can make that19 transition, then we provide support to20 you either through our partners in the21 managed reentry network or we do it22 ourselves directly.23
So if we24 were to quantify, how many reentries do25 34 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 1100881 we get from the federal level a month, a2 year, from the state a month, a year and3 from county or city, State Road, a month,4 a year?5
Federal about five6 percent of the individuals that we see at7 RISE.8
So that9 comes out to what hard number? Do the10 math.11
On average, we get25 35 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 1100881 about 600 or more.2
It's about 600.5 We pretty much balance out the state and6 the county.7
Now, by way11 of outcomes, by way of reentry, who goes12 back more often if you were to do13 federal, state? How does that measure14 out?15
I haven't broken16 it up that way. We have a very low17 recidivism rate. We have a three percent18 recidivism rate.19
-- city23 level?24 DEPUTY MAYOR GILLISON:25 36 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 1100881 City/county level.2
Well, that's three5 percent of the total population that6 comes into RISE. I haven't broken it up7 out of the three percent what is federal,8 what is state and what is county. But9 out of all of the individuals that come10 into RISE, it's about three percent.11
I ask that12 question because I think it's -- we say13 it all the time in our different14 hearings. If it ain't measured, it ain't15 managed.16
And as a18 comparison, you have to look at what the19 federal government is doing, cost20 analysis and outcomes; state, what they21 are doing or not doing, outcomes; and22 then to tweak over a period of time on23 who is doing it and why it's more24 successful or less successful. So I25 37 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 1100881 think like in your monitoring it is2 important and valuable to look at how3 your performances are and how they stack4 up against those individuals.5 I'm going to let some of my6 other colleagues --7
Councilman Jones,8 I can provide that information to you9 before the end of the day. I mean, we10 have that information. I just don't have11 it with me here.12
But we have it all14 broken down. So I can get that15 information to you.16
Can you17 also send us who is eligible for RISE at18 one point or is any person eligible for19 RISE? Is there an age limit or recently20 released? Is there -- if you've been out21 too many years, you can't go to RISE? I22 mean, what are the eligibility criteria?23
The managed24 reintegration network, our exclusions are25 38 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 1100881 sex offenders and arsonists. Anyone from2 the ages of 18 to 45 can come into RISE3 and be serviced directly. We have what4 we call a cluster model for those that5 are older than 34 that have been out more6 than three years. We know that the7 highest rate of recidivism is for those8 individuals who have been out less than9 three years, so we give them the greatest10 amount of attention and more direct11 services. Those who have been out more12 than three years but less than seven13 years would be handled by our cluster14 services. There are still -- they have15 access to all of the same services, but16 they don't need the same level of17 attention. They've obviously proven that18 they can stay out of prison, but they19 might need employment, they might need20 housing, clothing so that they can go on21 an interview, et cetera. So the level of22 service that they receive is23 proportionate to what their needs are.24 That's why we do a needs assessment.25 39 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 1100881 If an individual has been out2 more than seven years, we're not worried3 about their recidivism, but they may have4 other issues that they need help with.5 We will refer them to our partners to6 provide them with exactly what help it is7 that they might need, whether it's8 substance abuse treatment, behavioral9 health, some of the basic services like10 housing, employment, et cetera. We can11 refer those individuals out. But we do12 the services based on the highest risk to13 public safety and the likelihood of them14 recidivating again.15
Thank19 you, Madam Chair.20 Good afternoon.21 DEPUTY
Just,24 Mr. Gillison, in your testimony you talk25 40 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 1100881 about TABE, and I'll be honest with you,2 I'm not totally familiar with that3 program. Could you talk a little bit4 about that, and also how does that relate5 to GED? Is it one company?6 DEPUTY
TABE7 testing is almost like a reading level8 test. It establishes where you are so9 that when you are ready to begin your GED10 studies, sometimes you are not even11 eligible to begin GED because -- to do a12 GED, you have to have at least an13 understanding at the sixth, seventh or14 eighth grade level to get into that15 program. A TABE test might show that a16 lot of your reading or reasoning or math17 skills are at a first, second or third18 grade level.19 So it is a sliding mechanism.20 We are now doing that with all of the21 sentenced prisoners. It's my intention22 to have the Commissioner of Prisons do23 that with all the sentenced prisoners who24 are there. We have approximately on25 41 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 1100881 average 1,300, and we did our first2 cohort of 350, I think -- 250. We have3 another cohort of another 250 going in,4 and we hope to be able to have everyone5 assessed so that everyone knows where6 they are and what they need in order to7 go forward to help themselves.8 We have a lot of great9 investments going into the prisons now to10 help people in this area, but that's11 where we are. GED training is the second12 level.13
So TABE14 is like kind of the first step, if you15 will?16 DEPUTY
No. We20 just started that within approximately, I21 want to say, eight months ago or nine22 months ago I started doing that.23
It seems24 to make sense, because it gives you kind25 42 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 1100881 of an idea about where a person needs.2 DEPUTY
And if5 there are, for lack of a better term, the6 lower level, then there's additional7 training and that kind of thing?8 DEPUTY
Yeah.9 We've actually been -- we were able to10 receive an award from -- I think it was11 Wachovia gave us a $50,000 grant in order12 to help with our literacy training inside13 the prison and also outside the prison,14 and we are using the exact same15 equipment, so that if a person should16 leave the prison, let's say they start17 there and they get bailed out or they18 come out or they get paroled, they can19 walk into RISE and do the exact same20 thing that they were doing yesterday21 today in the RISE office.22
Trying25 43 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 1100881 to lower the barriers.2
No. It3 makes sense. And just one last question.4 As far as the literacy rate, when someone5 is released, is there kind of a -- ever6 been a study done as to what the -- how7 many people have not reached a certain8 literacy level? You know where I'm9 getting at?10 DEPUTY
I don't11 think that there has been a study. I can12 tell you that from across the board,13 which is why we're having this meeting14 tomorrow at the prison with both members15 of the Mayor's Literacy Commission as16 well as people within the prison that17 I've kind of tasked to this and along18 with Carolyn as the RISE Director, we are19 trying to make sure that we address20 literacy.21 The courts have been great22 partners in CJAB to really come together23 and support these kinds of innovative24 programs that they know will help lower25 44 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 1100881 recidivism. Obviously all of this is in2 my public safety arena, so I have things3 as much from prisons, police, fire, but I4 also have reentry services and the5 Mayor's Office on Faith Initiatives. All6 these people working together can address7 the literacy problem as we have in the8 prisons, and I'm hoping that tomorrow is9 a step towards a long commitment to10 getting this thing eradicated and11 addressed.12
It's13 certainly a key. Thank you.14 Thank you, Madam Chair.15
Are the16 courts ordering inmates to take17 educational classes? Is that what --18 DEPUTY
They19 are not -- well, sometimes persons -- and20 I remember how it used to be. The21 standard line used to be 11 and a half to22 23 months, followed by three years23 probation and you must get your GED.24 That was a typical sentence that the25 45 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 1100881 courts gave for over 20 years, if you had2 three or four different involvements with3 the law.4 I have asked and the courts5 have been rather receptive to the fact6 that before they order a GED, that they7 first allow us to do the assessment,8 because sometimes you can set someone up9 to fail, and I've seen that happen, where10 someone will say that they will get a GED11 and they keep trying and trying and12 trying, but if they make it a stipulation13 and you don't do it, you're in technical14 violation of your probation and parole,15 and depending on a judge, you could16 actually be seen that that be another one17 of those factors that might tip the18 balance that you didn't do what I told19 you to do.20 I'm trying to really get21 people -- and the courts have been22 extremely good partners to really hone in23 on the fact that we're looking at24 individuals. One day I'd like to be able25 46 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 1100881 to get rid of the whole term2 "ex-offender," but until that day, I3 would like us to just say we have people4 that have had some issues and we're5 trying to make sure that we meet those6 issues so that we can create an7 environment that both they can have and8 be the best that they can be and we can9 get the best out of them as society. And10 for me, that's the key. You can't just11 have people maintaining the status of12 ex-offender.13 In some of my talks I talk14 about the big letter. It used to be the15 letter was A, the scarlet letter. Now16 it's X, and I want to get rid of that,17 and the only way I can get rid of that is18 to have everybody understand that at what19 point do you stop saying that you're20 paying for something you did? I would21 love to see, and I have advocated for, a22 seven-year period, where at the end of23 seven years, you should be able to have a24 presumption that if you stayed out of25 47 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 1100881 trouble for seven years, that there's a2 presumption that you get your record3 expunged instead of having it that you4 have to go through a lot of these hoops5 in order to get your record expunged.6 That, to me, makes eminent sense. The7 problem is is that that's just not the8 way it is right now.9 So we have a long way to go. I10 know I have to expand the use of the11 Pardon Board. A lot of people don't12 understand the use of pardons. The13 Prison Society has a great job in dealing14 with educating people. There are also15 some other non-profits out there that16 deal with the role of the Pardon Board in17 this process. But it's labor intensive.18 It's another -- they have so many19 barriers and so many hoops you have to go20 through or jumping over. It is almost21 designed to frustrate you. And what I'm22 trying to do is to say that we have to23 change that mindset, if we truly want24 people to get through and to be full25 48 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 1100881 operating members again of society.2 The issue that I have, quite3 frankly, though, is, I don't know of4 others' commitment. I can only tell you5 of this Mayor's commitment and this6 Administration's commitment to seeing7 these changes go through.8
Well, you9 just have to keep plugging away. I had a10 boss that plugged away for 16 years and11 finally got that bill passed.12 DEPUTY
And I13 thank you for that.14 COUNCILWOMAN MILLER:15 Councilman Jones.16
Thank you.17 I don't want to -- the federal,18 state, city scenario, and you can just19 tell me you don't have this information,20 but this issue is going to be an ongoing21 issue for this body. So the next time --22 and I think your next opportunity might23 be during budget season -- you can make24 sure that you have this. I'd like to do25 49 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 1100881 an analysis of what is spent at the2 federal level per person, state level per3 person.4 DEPUTY
On reentry7 services. And then to look at8 quantitative.9 Listen, I don't mean to do10 analysis paralysis, but it does serve as11 a guide to let us know if we're moving12 the needle in the right direction. So I13 want to look at that and then the14 results, because now I'm going to ask you15 how many jobs have we gotten. I heard16 your training programs. I heard all of17 that. How many actual wage-earning jobs18 have we gotten individuals over the life19 of RISE and what is the retention rate in20 those jobs.21 DEPUTY
I can22 answer. Since we've been in office, I23 know that we have confirmed over 50024 jobs. I mean, real jobs that people are25 50 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 1100881 still actually working in. And since2 last year, it's been -- I'm sorry; since3 2010 -- I'm sorry; 2009, there's been4 300.5
So how does6 that stack up to federal, state levels7 per -- I don't need to know the per8 dollar spend. You can take some time.9 But how does that compare to the other10 programs?11
Okay. And the12 retention, the job retention, is 7413 percent. Over 65 percent of the14 individuals that have been placed in15 employment have stayed in employment more16 than 90 days. We measure retention at17 the individual staying in the same job18 for at least 91 days. So we have a great19 track record with retention as you20 compare it to the national level.21
Okay. So22 you'll give us further -- you'll give the23 Chair further detail and analysis --24
-- at those2 levels of reentry?3 One other question. If you4 were to say who the gold standard of5 reentry was, what city would it be?6 DEPUTY
I'll take10 that. But I took the liberty of looking11 at some others, and I'm looking at Cory12 Booker up in Newark where they have13 served over 1,300 people, 727 jobs.14 They're a city much smaller than we are,15 but have managed to do that with their16 program. Have you evaluated theirs?17 DEPUTY
I would18 love -- because I went up and I saw above19 the Deputy Mayor for Public Safety up20 there and was looking at the program.21 The one thing they had that we did not22 have is that they had a foundation, a23 private foundation, give them $5 million24 up front and said, Do what you need. And25 52 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 1100881 so they did their entire program on a2 yearly basis with $5 million.3
Right.6 So they've had seven and a half million7 dollars, not even from city funding, that8 was dedicated to that program.9
Well,12 we don't have a foundation that stepped13 up and said that we would -- that there's14 $5 to $8 or $9 million. What we did is15 that I directed that we redistributed16 money from the Prisons and we took money17 out of Police in order to make sure that18 this commitment was made, and we were19 funding RISE at the two and a half20 million to $3 million level, coming down21 as a result of the budget cuts, we went22 down to as much as 1.6 or 1.9 million.23 But we kept our commitment, and I've24 tried to use ARRA money with our matters25 53 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 1100881 with RHD and using green jobs and2 weatherization. I was able to steer3 money to the ex-offender populus at RHD,4 because they were our partner. I put a5 million dollars there through ARRA, and6 they've come up with their own set of7 dollars and people who are employed in8 that green job area.9 So our approach, while we10 didn't have as much money, we did, I11 think, just as good, if not better,12 because we had to run it with almost a13 third of the money that they had and yet14 we still almost came up to the exact same15 number of jobs that they did.16
In light of17 the federal landscape and budget18 scenarios at the state, is there an19 opportunity for us to at least go after20 some of those dollars in our next fiscal21 cycle?22 DEPUTY
We have23 always maintained that the Second Chance24 Act dollars, which for the entire country25 54 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 1100881 was pegged at, I think, $5 million --2 this was like no money, and so we have3 tried to do what I call a sustainable way4 of looking at reentry. I did not want to5 be in this job and not have built the6 relationships and capacity in community7 to sustain this effort much long after8 I'm gone. The idea is that this should9 be the way we do business here in the10 City of Philadelphia. And the way to do11 that is not to just look at one-time12 fixes of infusions of money that then dry13 up when the money is not there. We have14 built for the long haul, and this is15 going to be -- this is sustainable. We16 have taken dollars from the Prisons17 budget. We have now made both RISE and18 this entire effort is part and parcel of19 how we are changing what's going on at20 the prison so we can get more resources21 in there as we shift away from and as the22 declining population has allowed us to go23 from almost 10,000 people inside to now24 7,500, 2,500 less than at the all-time25 55 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 1100881 high or 2,000 less than the all-time2 high. We are using those dollars trying3 to invest to make sure that we provide a4 way out and a permanent way away from5 being incarcerated as opposed to this6 norm that had been around, which is you7 come into the prison, you go back out,8 you come back to the prison, you go back9 out, you go back to the prison. We got10 to get out of that whole mindset, and the11 way to do that is to offer opportunities.12 I won't comment on the fact13 that I think education has to be changed14 in the City. I think that we're making15 strides to do that, but obviously16 education is key.17
I'm going to18 end my comments to you on one note that19 says if you cannot find jobs, create20 them, and that's an entrepreneurial21 comment that Councilman Clarke made22 comment on. And what I will say is that23 there is an opportunity I think that if24 we creatively work with labor, organized25 56 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 1100881 labor, the unions, to do -- and you have2 done some of these. There is a major3 problem in my district with alleys4 unpaved or driveways that are in5 disrepair, and I would think that that's6 also the case in the 8th District. City7 workforces cannot go into privately owned8 alleys and driveways, but through working9 with labor, there are training10 opportunities, whether through concrete11 or asphalt, to repave thousands and12 thousands of driveways. If we can13 encourage the owners of the properties,14 the houses that are to -- if 51 percent15 of them agree, we can actually pave those16 driveways and put a temporary assessment17 lien on the properties and actually pay18 for and train them. Similarly, alleys if19 we do the same thing, because we can't go20 back there and -- you've been very21 creative, and I won't go into it in a22 public hearing --23 DEPUTY
-- to do2 some of that, but if we start to3 negotiate that in a larger way, there is4 a workforce that is available to do some5 of that work that the City workforce6 cannot do.7 Secondly, we have 3,000 miles8 of water and sewer lines under our feet9 right as we speak, some of it 100 years10 old, twenty-three percent of that water,11 fresh water, that would produce leaks out12 into the ground. And you always read13 about water mains. If we could work out14 something with the federal government15 and/or the Water Department to do some of16 that repair work, it will pay for itself17 through the water that we save, that 2318 percent leakage.19 Now, you do a lot of stuff20 during the course of your day and21 probably we need to get some minds22 smarter than myself, and there are no23 smarter than you guys in this subject24 matter, but if we dedicated some time to25 58 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 1100881 that, there is plenty of work that we can2 create jobs in inner cities to deal with3 some of the overflow availability of4 labor within the ex-offender community.5 So what I'm saying to you is,6 this is a very good start, and, again, I7 applaud my Chairwoman. We're going to do8 this again next year to see if indeed we9 can't inch towards even improving upon10 what you've laid the foundation for.11 Thank you.12 And thank you, Madam Chair.13
Thank14 you, Councilman Jones. In fact, I met15 with a former incarcerated person this16 afternoon who is going to start his own17 business and it was a cement business.18 Actually, years ago he came to me. I19 helped him through the union gain20 employment, $18 an hour, et cetera. He21 went back to prison for DUI, and he's22 been out now and he feels the way for him23 to get back on his feet and be successful24 is to start a business. He actually does25 59 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 1100881 know the work. So when you're talking2 about what you were talking about,3 immediately I thought about him, and he's4 going to -- we're helping him get his5 certification and all the things that he6 needs to start that business, and I think7 entrepreneurship is the way to go for8 many, many people.9 DEPUTY
So I want12 thank you guys for your effort and thank13 you for your testimony, and have a good14 afternoon.15 DEPUTY
We'd like to call21 up Katrina Young and Rachel Garland from22 Housing Unit at Community Legal Services;23 Michael Lee, Supervising Attorney at NLG24 Criminal Record Expungement Clinic; and25 60 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 1100881 Bill DiMascio, Executive Director of2 Pennsylvania Prison Society.3 (Witnesses approached witness4 table.)5
We'll6 just have to shift chairs around when we7 need to.8 Please make sure you talk into9 the mike so that we can hear you.10 Identify yourself for the record and11 proceed with your testimony. And you12 guys could choose the order.13
Good afternoon,14 Councilwoman Reed Miller and Councilman15 Jones and the members of the Public16 Safety Committee. My name is Katrina17 Young and I'm a third-year law student at18 Temple University and a legal intern at19 Community Legal Services in the Housing20 Unit. 22 I have focused my research and23 representation on tenants with criminal24 records. Thank you for the opportunity25 61 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 1100881 to present testimony on the barriers2 faced by individuals seeking housing who3 have criminal records. 8 The Housing Unit at CLS9 represents low-income Philadelphians with10 a variety of housing-related legal11 issues, including evictions, unlawful12 lockouts and utility shutoffs, disability13 accommodations, and unsafe and unsanitary14 housing conditions. Our Public Housing15 section represents individuals living in16 or seeking admission to all types of17 subsidized housing, including the Section18 8 Voucher program, public housing and19 Section 8 project-based housing. Among20 the housing problems we see are those21 stemming from clients' criminal records22 and contact with the criminal justice23 system; in particular, clients who are24 denied admission due to their criminal25 62 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 2 Many of our clients come to us3 after being denied admission for4 relatively old criminal records, some5 over 20 years old. Others have been6 denied admission for records indicating7 minor offenses such as disorderly8 conduct. 13 Federal regulations issued by14 the Department of Housing and Urban15 Development govern admissions to16 subsidized housing. These regulations17 prohibit admission to individuals who18 have committed a very short list of19 specified offenses. Aside from these20 limitations, landlords and housing21 authorities have discretion to develop22 their own admission standards and are23 free to adopt policies that are more or24 less restrictive of applicants with25 63 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 1100881 criminal records. 20 Barriers to stable, affordable21 housing lead to a host of problems for22 both the individual with the criminal23 record and the larger community. Without24 stable housing, it is difficult for25 64 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 1100881 family members to stay together, for2 adults to maintain steady employment and3 for children to succeed in school. Many4 applicants denied admission to subsidized5 housing eventually become homeless for at6 least some period of time, and7 homelessness can lead to physical and8 mental health problems, development of9 addiction or relapse and, particularly10 for women and children, victimization and11 abuse. 15 Because of these issues and the16 lack of stable housing for many of17 Philadelphia's low-income residents, we18 are pleased to see City Council take19 these preliminary steps in gathering20 information about this issue. 25 65 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 1100881
4 My name is Michael Lee and I'm the5 Supervising Attorney of the National6 Lawyers Guild Expungement Clinic. I'm7 also a solo practicing attorney focusing8 primarily in criminal expungements9 throughout Pennsylvania. 21 Because criminal background checks have22 become a routine part of applications, an23 applicant with a criminal history will24 find it almost impossible to get an25 66 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 1100881 interview, let alone a job. In fact, a2 criminal record stands out as much as3 these orange hats do on these gentlemen4 and ladies to my left. 19 It's a free direct legal service program20 whereby volunteer attorneys and law21 students assist those with criminal22 and/or arrest records in clearing their23 name. We handle expungement cases24 through all stages of the process. In25 67 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. m. m. 17 We understand that a person is18 much more than an arrest record at the19 NLG. The Chair of our local chapter20 served seven years in federal prison. We21 have a paralegal working with us who was22 recently released after 20 years in23 federal prison and was the first inmate24 to challenge the living conditions at25 68 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 2 We understand that arrest3 records don't tell a full story, and when4 we talk to our clients, we try to see5 what motivates them for an expungement,6 how it can improve their lives and how7 willing they are to serve the community8 and help others who are affected by this9 crisis. In the four months since our10 beginning, we have over 248 applications,11 of which 137, or 55 percent, have been12 accepted into our clinic. 23 But that's not enough. The24 current legal market prices this valuable25 69 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 1100881 service at at least $750. This puts this2 outside of the economic reality of those3 most affected by criminal records. We4 have a small dedicated team of volunteer5 attorneys working on a limited grant6 budget. An expungement petition costs7 $15 to file per arrest. We have one8 client with an 11-page arrest record and9 not a single conviction. 14 An area where the use of15 criminal records has one of the most16 devastating impacts is denying17 employment. We have many clients that18 come to us looking for a meaningful job,19 seeking to improve their lives and are20 being rejected despite having desired21 qualifications. Not only does the22 criminal record deny economic23 opportunities, but it also24 disenfranchises people and leads to a25 70 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 12 Most contacts come in the form of police13 harassment, government bureaucracy or a14 general disinterest in whatever issues15 are affecting people. 20 Her lifelong dream is to own her own21 daycare center. 23 About five years ago her daughter was24 jumped in front of her home and she broke25 71 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 1100881 up the fight. When the police came, she2 was arrested and not the assailants and3 she was charged with the common four4 charges - aggravated assault, which is a5 felony, simple assault, recklessly6 endangering another person and7 terroristic threats. As a result of this8 arrest and subsequent arrest record being9 formed, my client was kicked out of her10 educational program, one class short of11 completing it. The only class she needed12 was an internship at the very daycare13 center where she has been working for the14 last 25 years. 23 This is not the desired result24 we are seeking to have. This is someone25 72 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 1100881 with great qualifications who is being2 denied opportunity to help her community3 solely from an arrest record. The use of4 criminal records affect innocent people5 as well as guilty people. 17 We mentioned earlier today that there are18 some valid restrictions for denying19 someone's employment. For example, if20 you have a conviction related to a21 service that you're trying to provide, it22 makes sense that an employer should know23 about it.
However, instead of offering24 guidance and limiting the use of criminal25 73 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 14
Thank15 you. Thank you for your testimony, and16 we look forward to you participating. So17 you know we'll be in touch with you.18 Is your group represented on19 the committee that we have?20
Thank you,24 Madam Chair.25 74 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 1100881 Fascinating, and thank you all2 for your work in this important issue.3 Can you do me a favor, separate4 for me -- and, again, you are experts in5 this, and people aren't always as engaged6 in that activity every day, and for the7 people that might be watching this on8 TV -- the difference between expungement9 for a conviction versus an arrest.10
Excellent question.11 When someone is arrested, there are two12 main results from the charge. You have13 conviction data, in which someone is14 incarcerated or has probation or parole,15 or they have non-conviction data, which16 means the case was dismissed or withdrawn17 or otherwise found not guilty.18 When someone has conviction19 data, they must first apply for a pardon20 with the Board of Governors. This can21 take up to three years, and you're really22 at the mercy of an appointed room as to23 whether or not you'll be offered24 forgiveness for your conviction. If the25 75 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 1100881 pardon is granted, you must then file for2 an expungement for those charges.3 An expungement deals with any4 time you have non-conviction data, also5 if someone has been dead for three years6 or if they were convicted of a summary7 offense, which are generally quality of8 life, and have been free from arrest for9 the last five years. So there's a more10 narrow field in which you can have an11 expungement for. But what an expungement12 does is, it erases all indications of the13 arrest, fingerprints, photographs and14 record with the State Police, the FBI and15 the arresting agency. That will then let16 you legally say you've never been17 arrested or convicted of a crime.18
Because when19 we start to deal with the box issue,20 there's the question "have you been21 convicted of a felony" and is there also22 "have you ever been arrested"?23
Yes. Again, this is24 part of the problem, is some agencies ask25 76 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 1100881 have you ever been convicted, which is2 generally legal, and some ask have you3 ever been arrested or convicted, which is4 not very legal at all, because if you've5 been arrested but found not guilty, then6 you're still innocent. And, more7 importantly, it's a basic principle of8 America that you're innocent until proven9 guilty. So we already put the burden on10 an innocent person to clear their name.11 So when you file for an expungement, you,12 the person who has been cleared by the13 legal system of wrongdoing, you have to14 take time out of your day to contact an15 attorney or to pay for this petition, go16 down to the courthouse and follow up with17 the State Police months later. So the18 burden is on an innocent person to clear19 this data. And this is the same whether20 you are convicted of a crime or not.21 When you're dealing with22 expungements, it's things that have been23 taken care of. So let's say a typical24 thing is someone gets arrested for two25 77 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 1100881 types of drug charges. One they plead2 guilty to and one they don't prosecute.3 The one you don't prosecute, you're4 entitled to a redaction, which is the5 same as an expungement technically, in6 that it removes that charge from all of7 the reporting agencies, but you still8 have that conviction. So the onus is9 still saying, Okay, you're guilty of this10 crime, but you need to go out of your way11 to remove this not guilty from your12 record. So people walk around for 15, 2013 years saying, I was found not guilty or14 the case was withdrawn, not even knowing15 that they have an arrest record, and,16 more importantly, not knowing how easy17 the Internet has made searching people's18 arrest records.19
Does that20 include no contest? Where does that fall21 in?22
Yes. That would23 include -- I don't see no contest as a24 final disposition of a case that often,25 78 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 1100881 but it would include if the prosecution2 decides not to prosecute, if the judge3 withdraws the charges, if you4 successfully complete ARD or if you've5 done a summary offense.6
And you10 still need to go through the process of11 expungement?12
According to the13 statute, if you've completed ARD, the14 expungement is automatic, but from my15 experience and practice is that now16 people who complete ARD get a letter17 saying, You have completed your end of18 the bargain for this ARD, here is an19 attorney you may contact to file this20 petition for you. So as a21 court-appointed attorney, they've already22 determined that you can't afford to have23 legal representation for your case. We24 get you into ARD. I get paid as a25 79 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 1100881 court-appointed attorney and go about my2 business. You complete your program and3 then they tell you, By the way, you now4 have to pay someone for this expungement.5 And, as I said, the average rate is $7506 or more.7
To what8 degree -- and this is for the broader9 panel as well as yourself -- can data10 legally on housing or employment, the11 box, be used? I know in PHA they use12 this as routine to exclude people from13 public housing. Can they do it in the14 private sector? Is it legal? Do they do15 it anyway? Give me the realities of16 that.17
In the private18 sector especially, there's no prohibition19 against it, so a lot of landlords will20 run a criminal background check on21 applicants who want to be tenants.22
In Pennsylvania I24 don't know that it's been challenged.25 80 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 1100881 There are organizations that are starting2 to challenge it across the country, from3 my research, and some -- I mean, it kind4 of depends on the framing of the issue.5 In some areas, it has been found to be6 illegal, and in others it hasn't. It's a7 relatively new issue that's being8 addressed.9
Okay. My10 final question, and I'll turn this over,11 has anybody done an analysis of what laws12 need to be changed at the local level,13 state level and federal level and kind of14 gave it to legislative bodies to say, If15 you want to help move reentry into16 another level, here's the barriers that17 need to be removed at the city level,18 state level, federal level? Has anyone19 done that, to your knowledge?20
Not to my knowledge,21 but I can report back to the Committee if22 it does come across to me.23
That would24 be something I think a lot of legislative25 81 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 1100881 bodies would at least consider.2 Thank you, Madam Chair.3
Thank4 you.5 I have a question regarding the6 PHA and the application process. In your7 testimony, you said that there's a short8 list of specific offenses --9
-- that11 relates to applicants here in12 Philadelphia. What is that list?13
Under federal law,14 the only -- there are actually two15 offenses from which you're completely16 prohibited from public housing: anyone17 who is on a state sex offender registry18 and anyone who has been convicted of19 manufacturing crystal methamphetamine in20 public housing. Aside from those two,21 there are no blanket prohibitions. There22 are some restrictions in terms of the23 time from which you were convicted.24 There's a waiting period for a few other25 82 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 1100881 offenses like some major drug offenses,2 but you're not -- there's no blanket3 prohibition on those applicants.4 So basically then the federal5 government leaves it up to local housing6 authorities to develop their own7 admissions policies, and they have pretty8 wide discretion. So, for example, in9 Philadelphia, the admissions policies are10 relatively strict. It is not a blanket11 policy in terms of if you have a criminal12 record, you're absolutely excluded, but13 what we would like to see is more of a14 policy that allows for more of an15 individualized look at applicants. So16 how long ago was the offense committed.17 Obviously if it was never a conviction,18 it shouldn't matter anyway, whether it19 was a minor offense, whether it has20 anything to do with your ability to be a21 good tenant, things like that.22
Okay. I23 didn't know that. I just thought that24 people --25 83 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 1100881
A lot of people6 have that assumption. A lot of people7 actually think that any drug convictions8 automatically preclude you from being9 accepted, and that's not true.10
Yeah.11 Someone I met with earlier today said,12 Oh, you know, if you have a drug13 conviction, you are not eligible for PHA14 and --15
For PHA, that's16 generally true. It's just that federal17 law doesn't require that. So it's the18 local policy that prohibits that, not19 federal law.20
Is there21 anywhere here in Pennsylvania that has a22 local policy that's working and helping23 people, or everybody pretty much has this24 blanket no ex-offenders?25 84 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 1100881
I mean, from my2 research, which is pretty limited, not so3 much in Pennsylvania. There are a few4 places, one that I know of in the Bay5 Area in California where they have done6 some trial admissions policies that are a7 little more relaxed, but they're more in8 areas where they have fewer applicants9 because there's not such a demand. A lot10 of times the reasons for these really11 strict policies are based on this idea12 that there's a huge demand for more13 affordable subsidized housing. And so14 that's sort of the basis for...15
Okay.16 Well, I do want to thank everyone for the17 testimony. We have probably about ten or18 12 more people.19 I actually sent an e-mail out20 letting people know about the clinic that21 you had at Enon Baptist Church.22
And I24 know it was pretty crowded. And it's25 85 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 1100881 really discouraging that people can't2 find work because of a misdemeanor or a3 felony or, as you said, just an arrest4 that's never been erased from the record.5
So thank7 you, and we do look forward to working8 with everybody.9
Michael16 has to go to a protest. That's why we're17 bringing him up.18 (Witnesses approached witness19 table.)20
Have a21 seat, and don't forget to speak into the22 mike so we can hear you well, and23 identify yourself for the record.24
My name is Michael25 86 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 1100881 Ta'Bon.2
Bring the3 mike closer to you, Michael. I know your4 handcuffs are in the way, but...5
Yes, ma'am.6 How y'all doing this afternoon?7 Thank you for the invitation, Ms. Miller.8
12 I think it's important to13 understand that the first step to fixing14 the problem is honestly acknowledging15 that the problem exists. If you go to a16 hospital, right, but you're not the sick17 person, they're not going to be able to18 really prescribe the medication that you19 need because you're not the person. It's20 like if I'm sick at home and my wife go21 to the hospital and just tell them what's22 wrong with me and then the doctor mails23 the medication to me, how do you really24 expect me to get healed when they haven't25 87 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 2 A lot of times I think our3 problem with dealing with ex-convicts as4 well as dealing with violent children in5 the City of Philadelphia is simply6 because nobody is really letting the7 children and the ex-convicts tell you8 what they problems are. Everybody is9 just sitting there with their creative10 ideas. 20 We are the patients. 23 The twist is -- and excuse me for my lack24 of proper language, but the twist is, if25 88 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 1100881 the problem was dealt with prior to the2 incarceration, you wouldn't have a3 problem in the first place. It seems --4 I'm not saying everybody, but a lot of5 people seem to deal with the problem6 after it's on they doorstep. 10 So the problem -- what we got11 to do first of all is just really become12 what we claim to be, the City of13 Brotherly Love. If your brother is an14 ex-convict, Mr. Jones, he might get a job15 because he's your brother, but are you16 really showing brotherly love in the City17 of Philadelphia anymore? Because the18 young people have changed it to19 Killadelphia. And which title is more20 important today if we really be honest21 about the problem? Not to insult our22 city, but so that we can honestly fix the23 problem that's here. 25 89 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 11 Can we honestly ask ourselves12 is that a true statement? Are they13 really keeping people in safe, secure14 facilities? Or do people usually go to15 jail and come out worse than they went16 in? Because if we don't be honest about17 it -- because 85 percent of the people18 who are incarcerated come home, what type19 of person do you want to move next door20 to you is what the general public who21 acts like they don't care need to start22 asking they self? 25 90 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 1100881 And the streets is here to2 help. We here in solidarity saying we3 understand that in order to fight this4 war, the five fingers have to ball up5 into a fist together. If you poke at the6 finger with one finger poked too hard,7 you're going to break the finger. )19
We got to lead by20 example. When the blind lead the blind,21 everybody falls in the ditch. Momma told22 us that a long time ago.23 The 13th Amendment, slavery and24 mortal servitude is illegal, except when25 91 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 1100881 you've been duly convicted. So we2 dealing with another situation where we3 haven't been honest with ourselves.4 Slavery and mortal servitude is not5 abolished. The word "abolished" means to6 put an end to something. The 13th7 Amendment states "except." The word8 "except" makes the word "abolished" null9 and void.10 This is what happens when the11 ex-convict goes up state, begins to read12 the books and find out what meanings are13 to the words.14 And so now slavery has always15 been a business. Somebody is sending16 they kids to college or sending our kids17 to prison, and until we deal with that,18 we going to have this problem, because19 you got one group of government that20 wants to really help get the people out,21 but then you got some people in22 government that benefit off of the people23 being sent to prison. This is business.24 It always been a business. It never25 92 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 1100881 stopped. It never was abolished. It2 just changed, the law changed, so that it3 wouldn't look like it's really that much4 of a problem. You understand where I'm5 coming from?6 So now what happened in7 slavery? Let's look at slavery just not8 as a reason to hate nobody, but we9 supposed to learn from our past, use what10 we learned in the present to make our11 future better.12 So let's look at slavery. What13 happened when they said we was free?14 Well, they let us go, and a lot of the15 slaves actually ran back to the16 plantation because they wasn't mentally17 and spiritually capable of being free men18 and women. Nobody dealt with the inside19 of the human being in order to prepare20 them for society.21 So now let's take that into22 this modern-day slave thing that we23 dealing with that people making money off24 called the penitentiary. You let the25 93 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 1100881 people go, but while they're there, okay,2 you got a training program in the school,3 but the books is ten years behind in4 curriculum. You got a computer in there,5 but you don't have Microsoft Word and the6 seven and eight and nine. You dealing7 with one, two and three. So even if8 somebody did want to give them a job,9 would they really be qualified to10 compete?11 They getting all this money.12 Where is it going? Somebody got to13 really want to help somebody before it14 come to they doorstep.15 The idea of that seven years,16 that -- I mean, no disrespect to the17 brother, but he said -- I can't remember18 the brother's name, the Deputy Mayor, but19 he said something about in seven years20 after they get out of jail, then we could21 talk about giving them a real22 opportunity. So if you go to school --23 remember when you was little? Anybody24 remember when they was kids in here? You25 94 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 1100881 remember when you was little and your mom2 spanks you because you got a bad report3 card? How many times did your mom spank4 you for the same bad report card? You5 mean to tell me anybody in here ever did6 what they mom five years later spanking7 them for something they did five years8 ago? Because ex-convicts is still9 getting spanked five, six, seven years10 later. Come on, man.11 Listen, you ask -- he who is12 without sin, let him cast the first13 stone, right? Right?14 (Applause.)15
So just because16 some people didn't get caught for the17 things they done, right, but they know18 they was wrong because they get on they19 knees and they pray for forgiveness.20 What if God was like government? What if21 he gave people half a chance so, Well,22 I'm going to forgive you halfway, so I'm23 going to let you fill your lungs up with24 half my air. How many people would have25 95 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 1100881 asthma?2 What if he said, I'm going to3 just give a half a heartbeat? How many4 people will be in the hospital halfway5 dead?6 If you going to say I did my7 time and you're going to call the8 Department of Corrections -- listen to9 the title of the word, Department of10 Corrections. You have a department to11 correct people. You said that you was12 rehabilitating people and getting them13 ready for society. Well, taxpayers is14 paying for the Department of Corrections15 to correct people. So to not give the16 ex-convict a job when they get home is to17 say that you wasting money on the18 Department of Corrections, because19 obviously they ain't correcting nobody.20 (Applause.)21
I mean, I'm not22 trying to insult or disrespect, but let's23 keep it real one time in City Hall. We24 dealing with crack babies back in '84,25 96 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 1100881 '85, '86. It's 2004, '5 and '6, '8, '10,2 '11. So then crack babies is grown and3 now they got kids. 6 Now, back in the '80s, I7 remember when the newspaper talked about8 what problems the crack babies was going9 to have. Did anybody really deal with10 the problems on the inside of the crack11 baby? They was cute and little and you12 gave them the bottle and I care about13 them when they in the hospital, but when14 that crack baby turn 18, he's a crack15 adult now, throw him in jail, give him16 ten to 20. 18 Come on, man. Like we got to19 do better as a people, man. Somebody got20 to start loving somebody. The real21 problem here is love. Jesus say -- what22 did he say? How many times do I forgive23 my brother? Seven times? He said, No;24 70 times seven. You know why? Because25 97 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 2 So we got to start giving3 people some true forgiveness and stop4 playing games with God, because he's the5 real judge. And that's why they say the6 righteous scarcely make it in, because7 they get self-righteous. See, Jesus8 said, You didn't come visit me when I was9 in prison. 12 All the good works you're13 doing, all the good intentions and all14 that, they say that good intentions pave15 the way to hell, man. Look at us. Our16 city is in hell. 17 Ask some kids that can't go to school18 because somebody knock they homey eye19 socket out his head. 21 Now, here's the twist. You22 want to create some jobs? Well, AA says23 that one addict helps another addict,24 right, to stop getting high. They say25 98 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 1100881 one alcoholic stops another alcoholic2 from drinking, right? How many millions3 of dollars going to these programs, AA4 and NA? Well, what about the new5 program, one ex-convict helping the6 potential convict to stop committing7 crime? 10 So now you got all these11 gang-bangers from the '70s that did they12 15 to 30. They home now. Now you got13 these new gangs in school. Nobody in14 school obviously can really deal with15 them, because whatever non-profit in the16 school organization throw at them, the17 kids is winning. 21 You can't even go outside and play. So22 the kids is winning. But why not send23 the ex-gang-banger into the school to24 deal with the new gang-banger? Why not25 99 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 1100881 send the drug dealer in the school2 that -- give him the job to deal with the3 little guy that's trying to sell drugs4 now. Because, you know why? See, what5 people don't understand is, gangsters6 don't want they kids to get shot. Drug7 dealers don't want they children addicted8 to drugs. So you can utilize the same9 people that just don't have no purpose10 obviously to fix the problem. And I bear11 witness and I got people with me that say12 I'm on 1924 Hunting Park Avenue and God13 gave me a job, and they all coming. God14 is using me to fix the ex-convicts, but15 guess what? I still ain't got no PVC16 pipes in my house, because the government17 won't give me a job. You understand? 20 See, you got to understand21 something, bro. While he talking about a22 training program, the drug dealer got23 drugs right now. I got a job for you now24 and I got a couple dollars for you to get25 100 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. Man, you know that money change3 people position. I just came from the Convention6 Center. I seen all them $10,000 coats7 and nice cars, but everybody being8 tightfisted with that bread. Somebody9 got to share. That's just why the Bible10 says that it would be easier for a camel11 to fit through the eye of a needle than12 for a rich man to make it into the13 kingdom of God. If anybody know God,14 man, this ain't my words. This is God15 talking. 16 Let some of that bread go, man,17 and help somebody. Invest. 19 COUNCILWOMAN MILLER:20 Mr. 21
We've23 heard you. You made a lot of excellent24 points.25 101 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 1100881
But it's4 time for you to wrap up your testimony.5 I think -- is your wife going to testify?6
Yes. And I'll let7 her finish now. I just want to say, we8 need help, all of us. And we not here,9 you know what I mean, to cause any10 problems in City Hall when we be showing11 up. It's simply I think that people12 forgot what it was like when these rooms13 used to be filled up with people who14 cared 50 and 60 years ago. So the15 streets is going to start filling these16 rooms up again, showing that we care. We17 just need somebody to care back about us.18 God bless y'all.19 (Applause.)20