Committee Hearing, February 23, 2011

COUNCIL OF THE CITY OF PHILADELPHIA2 COMMITTEE ON PUBLIC SAFETY3 Room 400, City Hall6 Philadelphia, Pennsylvania Wednesday, February 23, 20117 2:20 p.m. PRESENT: COUNCILWOMAN DONNA REED MILLER, CHAIR10 COUNCILWOMAN JANNIE BLACKWELL COUNCILMAN DARRELL CLARKE11 COUNCILMAN WILLIAM K. GREENLEE COUNCILMAN CURTIS JONES, JR.12 RESOLUTION 110088 - Resolution authorizing14 City Council's Committee on Public Safety to hold a public hearing to investigate the15 challenges and barriers effecting individuals with criminal records.16 - - -18 2

Good2 afternoon, everyone. I am Councilwoman3 Donna Reed Miller, Chair of the Public4 Safety Committee. Also in attendance to5 my right, Councilman Curtis Jones. To my6 left, Councilman Bill Greenlee, and we do7 expect a couple more people from this8 Committee as this hearing proceeds.9 Would the Clerk please read the10 title of this resolution.11

Resolution12 authorizing City Council's Committee on13 Public Safety to hold a public hearing to14 investigate the challenges and barriers15 effecting individuals with criminal16 records.17

Thank18 you.19 I'd like to begin by thanking20 those who have taken an interest in21 Philadelphia and especially with the22 problems that individuals with criminal23 records face.24 Individuals with criminal25 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 1100881 records are discriminated against in many2 ways, ranging from employment, housing,3 healthcare, public assistance. The list4 is long, truly unknown and constantly5 growing. Today, we will hear about the6 issues in more detail.7 Should individuals with8 criminal records be given a second9 chance? In most cases the answer should10 be yes.11 We're here today to discuss12 what folks with criminal records are13 faced with either after they have paid14 their debt to society or after being15 arrested or charged. When we help them,16 we help ourselves. Everyone ends up17 paying when individuals with criminal18 records are not helped. If we don't19 allow them to work or help themselves,20 then they are forced to either survive by21 doing whatever they can, and this usually22 means something illegal, or they are23 forced to depend on someone else such as24 public assistance. Unfortunately, as we25 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 1100881 will see today, they're usually not able2 to receive public assistance. So where3 does that put us or put the person with4 the criminal record? Back to helping5 themselves most times in an illegal6 manner.7 The most troubling part of this8 is that people with criminal records are9 discriminated against and nobody seems to10 mind. Unfortunately, discrimination11 carries many hats, and today, we will be12 looking at the blatant discrimination13 targeting individuals with records.14 It is somewhat disturbing that15 this discrimination is not even16 considered discrimination, but rather17 caution or exercise of good judgment.18 When ex-offenders return to19 prison, that means less money for20 schools, recreation centers, police or21 anything that may be necessary or dear to22 our hearts. This needs to be addressed,23 because no matter who is speaking on this24 issue, they always end up saying that25 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 1100881 these people keep returning to prison.2 Are you aware that it costs3 less to send someone to college than to4 house them in prison?5 With that in mind, are there6 any Councilmembers who wish to make a7 statement?8 Councilman Jones.9

Thank you,10 Madam Chairwoman. I just want to thank11 you for bringing this issue to your12 public attention. It is long overdue.13 You have been a champion of this issue14 and others in your chairmanship of Public15 Safety, and I want to thank you for16 making us tune in on this as a laser beam17 issue. And there are a lot of other18 advocates, but you have been for this19 Council a cheerleader for this type of20 hearing, and I'm thankful that we're21 finally having it.22

Thank23 you. Thank you, Councilman Jones.24 And also in attendance to my25 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 1100881 far right is Councilman Darrell Clarke.2 Does anyone else have -- any3 other Councilmember have anything they4 want to say?5

Yeah.6 COUNCILWOMAN MILLER:7 Councilman Clarke.8

Thank you,9 Madam Chair.10 Real briefly, Madam Chair, I11 want to concur with my colleague12 Councilman Jones in terms of your13 steadfast commitment to this issue, your14 continuing to work, despite some of the15 odds presented before you, to work on16 this very important issue.17 I want to say like tomorrow, as18 a matter of fact, we're having a hearing19 I think on the Jobs Commission, and a20 part of that Jobs Commission's21 requirement is to come up with solutions22 for employment and for jobs, and we want23 to say that we need to have somebody a24 part of that discussion who represents25 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 1100881 individuals who are the least likely to2 be employed because of problems that3 they've had in their past.4 This whole issue with respect5 to block the box is clearly something6 that's a detriment in terms of people7 even getting to the next level of8 conversation about getting a job. We9 need to be creative in creating10 opportunities for people who can't even11 get to an interview. So I'm going to ask12 that in that discussion when we pass the13 bill as we create the Commission, that a14 representative who is going to represent15 the individuals who found themselves in16 this situation of, in some people's mind,17 being unemployable simply because they're18 not given a chance, be a part of that19 discussion so we can make sure that we20 got to come up with some very creative21 ways to get opportunities for people.22 Because they have a lot of people who23 have a lot of skills. If just given a24 chance, frankly speaking, they'd be25 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 1100881 productive employees and/or potentially2 productive property businessowners,3 because I think that a lot of us need to4 look at entrepreneurial opportunities.5 Not to go on, but I know that most of us,6 the guys in here, go to a barber shop,7 and one of the things that the barbers in8 my shop that I go to at Broad and9 Susquehanna, they talk about wanting to10 open up a barber shop, but they just11 don't have the capital to open up their12 own shop. I think if we can come up with13 strategies to allow them to do that, they14 would become businesspeople, and some of15 the challenges that they've had, they16 would be more likely to reach out to17 individuals who had similar challenges18 and hire them, and then you just go on19 and on down the line.20 So maybe we shouldn't just put21 our sole focus on trying to get people22 traditional jobs. Maybe we need to think23 outside of the box. So I would like to24 reach out to individuals who are here25 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 1100881 today to be a significant part of this2 discussion on creating job opportunities3 and employment opportunities for the4 people in the City of Philadelphia.5 Thank you, Madam Chair.6

Thank7 you. Thank you, Councilman Clarke.8 One announcement I'd like to9 make is that I actually was telling10 people that the "ban the box" legislation11 hearing is next week. Well, it's not12 next week, but we will make sure that13 everybody knows when it is. It will be14 in March. And, you know, that's the15 legislation that will address the16 question on the application about whether17 you've been arrested, whether you've been18 convicted or are you this or are you19 that. So we just want to make sure that20 everybody knows that it is not March the21 2nd, but we will get back to you.22 Okay. So now will the Clerk23 please call the first witnesses.24

We'll bring up as a25 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 1100881 panel, the first set is John Christmas2 representing Councilwoman Jannie3 Blackwell; Deputy Mayor of Public Safety,4 Everett Gillison; and Carolyn Harper from5 RISE.6 (Witnesses approached witness7 table.)8

Thank9 you, and you can proceed. John, you can10 go first, representing Councilwoman11 Blackwell. Just speak into the mike and12 identify yourself and proceed with your13 testimony.14

Yes, ma'am.15 Thank you. Again, my name is John16 Christmas. I'm an attorney in17 Councilwoman Jannie Blackwell's office18 and speaking on her behalf today. I want19 to thank the Committee and you, Madam20 Chairwoman Miller and other members of21 Public Safety, for this opportunity to22 speak on the Council Lady's behalf. She23 couldn't be here today, but wanted to24 offer her support for reentry-related25 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 1100881 programs and has been a strong proponent2 of defending the rights of ex-offenders3 and, in fact, has been a strong proponent4 of reentry-related activities out in5 Southwest most notably and more recently.6 So, again, she couldn't be here7 today, but just wanted all of you to8 be -- that she's here in spirit and wants9 to offer her support to the ex-offender10 community, and certainly as the hearings11 go forward, to support all of the12 legislation and the efforts to remove the13 barriers to allowing ex-offenders to14 return to their communities in a15 sustainable way.16 So thank you very much, Madam17 Chair.18

Thank19 you. Thank you, and thank Councilwoman20 Blackwell.21

Thank you very22 much, ma'am.23 COUNCILWOMAN MILLER:24 Mr. Gillison, you can proceed.25 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 1100881 DEPUTY

Thank2 you. Good afternoon, Councilwoman Miller3 and members of the Public Safety4 Committee. My name is Everett Gillison5 and I am the Deputy Mayor for Public6 Safety. 15 Ex-offenders who are determined16 to turn their lives around and become17 law-abiding, productive members of18 society oftentimes face considerable19 barriers. 23 Those with criminal records face24 difficulties in finding employment,25 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 1100881 obtaining adequate housing and enrolling2 in educational programs. 10 This Administration has a11 strong commitment to helping ex-offenders12 overcome barriers to reentry in their13 community and the working world. For14 this very reason, this Administration has15 established through Mayoral Executive16 Order the Office of Reintegration17 Services for Ex-Offenders, or RISE. The18 RISE office, located at 34 South 11th19 Street, operates a managed reintegration20 network. Essentially, RISE is tasked21 with building a network of service22 providers to assist ex-offenders. RISE23 clients are assessed in detail to24 determine the type and level and services25 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 1100881 that they need. 17 Employment - RISE provides job18 readiness training, job placement and job19 retention services. RISE offers a Job20 Club where participants may attend weekly21 refresher classes on job networking and22 interviewing skills. RISE operates a23 sheltered workshop with Goodwill24 Industries. Low-skilled participants are25 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 8 Vocational training - qualified9 RISE participants may enroll in our10 C-Tech program, which is a six-week11 training in telecommunications, data and12 cable installation. Upon successful13 completion of the training, participants14 receive a national industry15 certification. Additionally, RISE16 provides hospitality and culinary arts17 training. At the completion of this18 six-week training, participants earn19 their national industry Serv Safe20 certification. 25 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 1100881 Our Roots 2 Reentry program is a2 partnership with the Pennsylvania3 Horticultural Society and trains4 participants in horticulture and5 landscaping. 7 Partnership CDC provides8 participants with training in9 installation and maintenance of green10 roofs. Our partnership with Eastern11 University provided participants with12 paralegal training. Ex-offenders may13 earn their paralegal and legal secretary14 diploma. The American Cities Foundation15 also provides training in landscaping and16 water conservation. 25 17 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 1100881 Through our partnership with five2 faith-based and community-based3 organizations, RISE provides life coaches4 and mentors to our participants. All5 RISE participants also receive cognitive6 behavioral training through our CPR,7 which is short for Community and Personal8 Responsibility, program. Additionally,9 RISE assists participants with voter10 registration, makes available monthly HIV11 testing and treatment referrals, provides12 referrals for substance abuse testing and13 treatment, as well as housing, clothing,14 emergency shelter, behavioral and mental15 health services. 20 Although this Administration21 alone cannot eradicate all of the22 barriers faced by ex-offenders, it is23 hoped that the services provided by RISE24 will alleviate some of these barriers and25 18 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 1100881 allow participants a smoother road to2 reentry. This Administration is3 committed to reentry. 8 I will be happy answer any9 questions that the members of the10 Committee may have. 11

Okay. We12 will not have questions until --13 Ms. Harper, do you have any testimony?14

No.15 DEPUTY

She's16 here just to answer any questions, if17 there was any.18

For19 support, okay.20 DEPUTY

If21 there's anything else.22

Okay.23 Thank you.24 I have a question. Basically,25 19 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 1100881 when you do your intake and you determine2 what someone's needs are and how to move3 them and get them involved in whatever4 phase of your program, what have been the5 main barriers to employment? Is it6 skills, competencies, knowledge, or what?7 DEPUTY

I'll8 let Ms. Harper -- I will say it's all of9 the above. The majority of the barriers10 right now as a result of the assessment11 that we did both within the prison and12 without the prison is literacy. We have13 quite a deficit. 18 We also have a problem with --19 there's just areas that the state has20 begun -- when you really look at an21 examination -- and I believe that22 Ms. Dietrich from the CLS gave me an23 analysis very early on when I was24 appointed Deputy Mayor, who indicated25 20 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 1100881 that somewhere around -- the barriers2 that the state has placed in place. If3 you get a conviction for X, you can't4 serve in this particular profession. 7 We started looking at all the8 things that you used to be able to do,9 and now the penalties are you can't get10 into a particular area that normally you11 would be able to do, because the fact of12 the matter is, the fact that you're an13 ex-offender should have no bearing on the14 fact that you can do the job. It is15 those kinds of things that we've been16 advocating. 22 I've looked and talked to23 people at PHA, and there is -- if you get24 a conviction for certain things in PHA,25 21 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 1100881 you can't live in PHA housing. 11 This has been something that12 has troubled me, and I've always -- I've13 talked about it for a long time. The14 mass incarceration that we did as a15 society starting in the late '70s and16 early '80s, where I spent most of my17 legal career, you really sit back and see18 that the expansion of people being placed19 in jail for -- whereas crime was really20 not going up to the extent that we were21 throwing people in jail, but now trying22 to get them out and trying to23 rehabilitate them and not having any24 money with which to do that, those are25 22 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 16 We are moving this thing17 forward, but we have to change the18 mindset of people that say that once you19 get a conviction, that we're no longer20 going to allow you to take part in21 society. We have to change that. 23 When I'm out talking in the community, I24 talk about it. At various churches that25 23 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 1100881 I go to, I ask my faith-based brothers2 and sisters to help me articulate why it3 is so important for us to provide these4 opportunities. 7 So I'm sorry that I -- I really8 feel this particular area. I think that9 the frustration is real. The barriers10 are real, but it really is not going to11 take legislation. 14

Well, I15 thank you for your response. I mean, we16 could feel the passion.17 So in working with the Center18 for Literacy and your partnership with19 the prisons, I'm sure they do have basic20 ed classes while someone is incarcerated,21 they have that opportunity, correct?22 DEPUTY

Yes.23

Are they24 doing the TABE testing?25 24 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 1100881 DEPUTY

Yes,2 they are. They're doing it in the prison3 as well. Yes, they're doing it as well4 inside the prison. We are expanding our5 commitment to literacy in the prison. As6 a matter of fact, I think it's either7 later this week or it might even be8 tomorrow, we will have a program at the9 prison where we're bringing together the10 Mayor's representatives on the Literacy11 Commission with those in the prison. I12 always tell people, please don't forget13 about my folks up at the prison when14 you're talking about literacy. It's not15 just the libraries that have to have16 literacy programs. It's inside. It's17 not just having great computers that are18 able to use the latest and greatest19 software. That has to be done inside.20 And I'm putting together a white paper21 for the new Secretary of the Commonwealth22 in order to hopefully have a partnership.23 Fifty percent of the people now24 who use the RISE program -- when we25 25 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 1100881 started out, it was about 80/20 between2 City folks who had county issues versus3 state. Right now, over 50 percent of the4 people in RISE are people who are coming5 home from state, and they give us no6 money at all, not a dime.7

Well, at8 one point the state actually talked about9 having reentry programs. So that10 actually has not happened?11 DEPUTY

No.12 They found that ours is much better and,13 therefore, they're using ours.14

So they15 should just give us the funding that they16 were --17 DEPUTY

From18 your lips to God's ears, Councilwoman.19

Okay.20 Thank you.21 Councilman Jones.22

Thank you,23 Madam Chair.24 Your history and track record25 26 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 1100881 in this issue is -- it speaks volumes of2 you. I happen to know your commitment to3 the issue, among other duties that you4 have.5 I have some questions that kind6 of help me put my arms around this whole7 concept and issue. First of all, how8 long has RISE been in existence?9 DEPUTY

As10 through the Executive Order, it's been --11 the Executive Order has been now a year12 and a half, almost two years.13

Two years?14 DEPUTY

Yes.15

And before16 that it was?17 DEPUTY

It was18 more the Mayor's Office for Reentry.19

Reentry,20 okay.21 If I may, there's a couple of22 statistics. I saw in one package that23 there are somewhere between 250,000,24 300,000 ex-offenders in the City of25 27 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 1100881 Philadelphia.2 DEPUTY

That's3 correct.4

That's5 correct?6 And for the record also, there7 are 50,000 or so active on probation,8 parole --9 DEPUTY

Or10 incarcerated.11

Or12 incarcerated. So that's a different --13 DEPUTY

Cohort.14

The two are15 probably -- and I'm guessing -- two16 different classifications that have17 different need sets?18 DEPUTY

They19 are, although I think that being on the20 inside, if you're still away up at the21 state, you're supposed to have certain22 things given to you and certain training.23 I have to ask what the state is doing.24 But I agree with you that it's probably25 28 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 1100881 two different cohorts.2

Let's go3 through -- I want to segregate and get4 back to those people who have completed5 whatever their obligations are to their6 reporting authorities. I want to go to,7 what is the difference -- describe for8 me, as you may or may not know -- and9 this is the kind of question that if10 someone else is better qualified at later11 testimony to enlighten this panel, that's12 fine.13 What's the difference between14 the federal reentry process, the state15 reentry process and the city/county16 process of reentry and services kind of17 that go with that?18 DEPUTY

The19 federal first. The federal has made a20 commitment through Judge Timothy Rice to21 have a Reentry Court. They try to22 pull -- much like we have in the state23 and local county through the First24 Judicial District, that we have25 29 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 1100881 identified certain specialty courts to2 handle specialty issues. We have a Drug3 Court. We have a Veterans Court. The4 federal put together a Reentry Court in5 order to have a judge who is supervising6 the probation and/or -- the current7 probation of the individual, keep them8 accountable on a weekly sometimes -- on a9 monthly, but mostly weekly basis. If10 there is a deviation, they actually11 provide additional services or they could12 take the person back into custody. It's13 the same approach we use with Drug Court,14 DUI Court and Veterans Court.15 The federal -- but they've16 identified certain partners that they've17 had for a long time that will provide18 opportunities for them to be employed.19 So their graduation rate through these20 programs, because they are showing that21 people can reenter society and get jobs22 and maintain those jobs for a long period23 of time, they're able to shorten -- the24 carrot and stick is, they shorten the25 30 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 1100881 amount of probation or parole that they2 are placed on in order to keep them on3 the straight and narrow.4 At the state level, there's no5 Reentry Court. Once you are in the state6 system, once you come back, you literally7 are -- the state Board of Parole or8 Probation serves as your probation and9 parole officers, and they are supposed to10 help. I know that under the former11 Secretary Ginault, she was trying to12 provide a basis to shift the probation13 and parole agents at the state level to14 almost a job-coaching and job-finding15 agency. There was some resistance16 culturally to doing that, because a lot17 of the agents see themselves as the law18 enforcement side rather than the19 supportive services side. But she was20 making some progress in doing that.21

So do I22 understand you to say they're more on the23 "We're going to maintain what you're24 supposed to do as opposed to life25 31 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 1100881 coaching you"?2 DEPUTY

Right.3 Exactly. Some would say they're not4 social workers. They'd rather be law5 enforcement, and never the twain shall6 meet, although I disagree with that.7 On the City side, the reason8 why we changed what was happening out at9 MORE is because instead of the idea being10 we will try to become a large city agency11 where everyone comes through and tried to12 refer out to various parties, we thought13 it best to build up capacity in the14 community, working with community15 agencies that are doing the work, and the16 idea was is that we would have money to17 hold them accountable for the outcomes of18 getting people jobs.19 We took a variety of an20 approach. We worked with America Works21 for Rapid Attachment to Work. They were22 able to get a number of jobs for people23 with minimum amount of supports being24 given. We were able to work with25 32 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 1100881 Goodwill, and they have a -- if you2 didn't have any -- you had low skills but3 we knew that you could actually do a job4 if you were trained properly, a sheltered5 workshop type of environment provided you6 with the means of having some money, but7 also getting yourself ready for life8 coaching, life skills and working while9 you are training yourself to walk that10 straight and narrow.11

So if I were12 to oversimplify, the feds have a master13 judge that really monitors the probation14 activity on a regular basis and have15 supportive services attached to it so16 that the people coming back have a17 reasonable chance of success.18 DEPUTY MAYOR GILLISON:19 Correct.20

Which cover21 the basic food groups of employment,22 housing, social supports.23 If I were to -- if I read your24 comments correctly, the state has a gap25 33 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 1100881 where they don't get in trouble, we ain't2 here to be your babysitter, and you're on3 your own kind of thing.4 DEPUTY

Right.5

And that you6 have, at the local level, tried to mimic7 more of the federal. Is that a --8 DEPUTY

We are9 trying to provide the basis so that10 people know that there's one place they11 can go to get supportive services.12

And then a13 referral.14 DEPUTY

And we15 will do two things. We will either test16 you, figure out your assessment and get17 you to the place you need to be in order18 to make sure that you can make that19 transition, then we provide support to20 you either through our partners in the21 managed reentry network or we do it22 ourselves directly.23

So if we24 were to quantify, how many reentries do25 34 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 1100881 we get from the federal level a month, a2 year, from the state a month, a year and3 from county or city, State Road, a month,4 a year?5

Federal about five6 percent of the individuals that we see at7 RISE.8

So that9 comes out to what hard number? Do the10 math.11

About, for this12 year since July, that would be 113.13

A hundred14 and thirty?15

Thirteen.16

On average a17 year, what do we get?18

About 100 to 12519 individuals from the federal.20

A year?21

Yes.22

From the23 federal, okay. And from the state?24

On average, we get25 35 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 1100881 about 600 or more.2

Six hundred.3 And from local?4

It's about 600.5 We pretty much balance out the state and6 the county.7

All right.8

With a little bit9 from the feds.10

Now, by way11 of outcomes, by way of reentry, who goes12 back more often if you were to do13 federal, state? How does that measure14 out?15

I haven't broken16 it up that way. We have a very low17 recidivism rate. We have a three percent18 recidivism rate.19

At the --20 DEPUTY

At the21 county.22

-- city23 level?24 DEPUTY MAYOR GILLISON:25 36 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 1100881 City/county level.2

And at the3 state level, you haven't compared that?4

Well, that's three5 percent of the total population that6 comes into RISE. I haven't broken it up7 out of the three percent what is federal,8 what is state and what is county. But9 out of all of the individuals that come10 into RISE, it's about three percent.11

I ask that12 question because I think it's -- we say13 it all the time in our different14 hearings. If it ain't measured, it ain't15 managed.16

I agree.17

And as a18 comparison, you have to look at what the19 federal government is doing, cost20 analysis and outcomes; state, what they21 are doing or not doing, outcomes; and22 then to tweak over a period of time on23 who is doing it and why it's more24 successful or less successful. So I25 37 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 1100881 think like in your monitoring it is2 important and valuable to look at how3 your performances are and how they stack4 up against those individuals.5 I'm going to let some of my6 other colleagues --7

Councilman Jones,8 I can provide that information to you9 before the end of the day. I mean, we10 have that information. I just don't have11 it with me here.12

Okay.13

But we have it all14 broken down. So I can get that15 information to you.16

Can you17 also send us who is eligible for RISE at18 one point or is any person eligible for19 RISE? Is there an age limit or recently20 released? Is there -- if you've been out21 too many years, you can't go to RISE? I22 mean, what are the eligibility criteria?23

The managed24 reintegration network, our exclusions are25 38 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 1100881 sex offenders and arsonists. Anyone from2 the ages of 18 to 45 can come into RISE3 and be serviced directly. We have what4 we call a cluster model for those that5 are older than 34 that have been out more6 than three years. We know that the7 highest rate of recidivism is for those8 individuals who have been out less than9 three years, so we give them the greatest10 amount of attention and more direct11 services. Those who have been out more12 than three years but less than seven13 years would be handled by our cluster14 services. There are still -- they have15 access to all of the same services, but16 they don't need the same level of17 attention. They've obviously proven that18 they can stay out of prison, but they19 might need employment, they might need20 housing, clothing so that they can go on21 an interview, et cetera. So the level of22 service that they receive is23 proportionate to what their needs are.24 That's why we do a needs assessment.25 39 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 1100881 If an individual has been out2 more than seven years, we're not worried3 about their recidivism, but they may have4 other issues that they need help with.5 We will refer them to our partners to6 provide them with exactly what help it is7 that they might need, whether it's8 substance abuse treatment, behavioral9 health, some of the basic services like10 housing, employment, et cetera. We can11 refer those individuals out. But we do12 the services based on the highest risk to13 public safety and the likelihood of them14 recidivating again.15

Okay.16 Thank you.17 Councilman Greenlee.18

Thank19 you, Madam Chair.20 Good afternoon.21 DEPUTY

Good22 afternoon.23

Just,24 Mr. Gillison, in your testimony you talk25 40 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 1100881 about TABE, and I'll be honest with you,2 I'm not totally familiar with that3 program. Could you talk a little bit4 about that, and also how does that relate5 to GED? Is it one company?6 DEPUTY

TABE7 testing is almost like a reading level8 test. It establishes where you are so9 that when you are ready to begin your GED10 studies, sometimes you are not even11 eligible to begin GED because -- to do a12 GED, you have to have at least an13 understanding at the sixth, seventh or14 eighth grade level to get into that15 program. A TABE test might show that a16 lot of your reading or reasoning or math17 skills are at a first, second or third18 grade level.19 So it is a sliding mechanism.20 We are now doing that with all of the21 sentenced prisoners. It's my intention22 to have the Commissioner of Prisons do23 that with all the sentenced prisoners who24 are there. We have approximately on25 41 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 1100881 average 1,300, and we did our first2 cohort of 350, I think -- 250. We have3 another cohort of another 250 going in,4 and we hope to be able to have everyone5 assessed so that everyone knows where6 they are and what they need in order to7 go forward to help themselves.8 We have a lot of great9 investments going into the prisons now to10 help people in this area, but that's11 where we are. GED training is the second12 level.13

So TABE14 is like kind of the first step, if you15 will?16 DEPUTY

Yes.17

And has18 that been in effect for a while?19 DEPUTY

No. We20 just started that within approximately, I21 want to say, eight months ago or nine22 months ago I started doing that.23

It seems24 to make sense, because it gives you kind25 42 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 1100881 of an idea about where a person needs.2 DEPUTY

Exactly3 right.4

And if5 there are, for lack of a better term, the6 lower level, then there's additional7 training and that kind of thing?8 DEPUTY

Yeah.9 We've actually been -- we were able to10 receive an award from -- I think it was11 Wachovia gave us a $50,000 grant in order12 to help with our literacy training inside13 the prison and also outside the prison,14 and we are using the exact same15 equipment, so that if a person should16 leave the prison, let's say they start17 there and they get bailed out or they18 come out or they get paroled, they can19 walk into RISE and do the exact same20 thing that they were doing yesterday21 today in the RISE office.22

I see.23 Okay.24 DEPUTY

Trying25 43 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 1100881 to lower the barriers.2

No. It3 makes sense. And just one last question.4 As far as the literacy rate, when someone5 is released, is there kind of a -- ever6 been a study done as to what the -- how7 many people have not reached a certain8 literacy level? You know where I'm9 getting at?10 DEPUTY

I don't11 think that there has been a study. I can12 tell you that from across the board,13 which is why we're having this meeting14 tomorrow at the prison with both members15 of the Mayor's Literacy Commission as16 well as people within the prison that17 I've kind of tasked to this and along18 with Carolyn as the RISE Director, we are19 trying to make sure that we address20 literacy.21 The courts have been great22 partners in CJAB to really come together23 and support these kinds of innovative24 programs that they know will help lower25 44 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 1100881 recidivism. Obviously all of this is in2 my public safety arena, so I have things3 as much from prisons, police, fire, but I4 also have reentry services and the5 Mayor's Office on Faith Initiatives. All6 these people working together can address7 the literacy problem as we have in the8 prisons, and I'm hoping that tomorrow is9 a step towards a long commitment to10 getting this thing eradicated and11 addressed.12

It's13 certainly a key. Thank you.14 Thank you, Madam Chair.15

Are the16 courts ordering inmates to take17 educational classes? Is that what --18 DEPUTY

They19 are not -- well, sometimes persons -- and20 I remember how it used to be. The21 standard line used to be 11 and a half to22 23 months, followed by three years23 probation and you must get your GED.24 That was a typical sentence that the25 45 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 1100881 courts gave for over 20 years, if you had2 three or four different involvements with3 the law.4 I have asked and the courts5 have been rather receptive to the fact6 that before they order a GED, that they7 first allow us to do the assessment,8 because sometimes you can set someone up9 to fail, and I've seen that happen, where10 someone will say that they will get a GED11 and they keep trying and trying and12 trying, but if they make it a stipulation13 and you don't do it, you're in technical14 violation of your probation and parole,15 and depending on a judge, you could16 actually be seen that that be another one17 of those factors that might tip the18 balance that you didn't do what I told19 you to do.20 I'm trying to really get21 people -- and the courts have been22 extremely good partners to really hone in23 on the fact that we're looking at24 individuals. One day I'd like to be able25 46 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 1100881 to get rid of the whole term2 "ex-offender," but until that day, I3 would like us to just say we have people4 that have had some issues and we're5 trying to make sure that we meet those6 issues so that we can create an7 environment that both they can have and8 be the best that they can be and we can9 get the best out of them as society. And10 for me, that's the key. You can't just11 have people maintaining the status of12 ex-offender.13 In some of my talks I talk14 about the big letter. It used to be the15 letter was A, the scarlet letter. Now16 it's X, and I want to get rid of that,17 and the only way I can get rid of that is18 to have everybody understand that at what19 point do you stop saying that you're20 paying for something you did? I would21 love to see, and I have advocated for, a22 seven-year period, where at the end of23 seven years, you should be able to have a24 presumption that if you stayed out of25 47 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 1100881 trouble for seven years, that there's a2 presumption that you get your record3 expunged instead of having it that you4 have to go through a lot of these hoops5 in order to get your record expunged.6 That, to me, makes eminent sense. The7 problem is is that that's just not the8 way it is right now.9 So we have a long way to go. I10 know I have to expand the use of the11 Pardon Board. A lot of people don't12 understand the use of pardons. The13 Prison Society has a great job in dealing14 with educating people. There are also15 some other non-profits out there that16 deal with the role of the Pardon Board in17 this process. But it's labor intensive.18 It's another -- they have so many19 barriers and so many hoops you have to go20 through or jumping over. It is almost21 designed to frustrate you. And what I'm22 trying to do is to say that we have to23 change that mindset, if we truly want24 people to get through and to be full25 48 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 1100881 operating members again of society.2 The issue that I have, quite3 frankly, though, is, I don't know of4 others' commitment. I can only tell you5 of this Mayor's commitment and this6 Administration's commitment to seeing7 these changes go through.8

Well, you9 just have to keep plugging away. I had a10 boss that plugged away for 16 years and11 finally got that bill passed.12 DEPUTY

And I13 thank you for that.14 COUNCILWOMAN MILLER:15 Councilman Jones.16

Thank you.17 I don't want to -- the federal,18 state, city scenario, and you can just19 tell me you don't have this information,20 but this issue is going to be an ongoing21 issue for this body. So the next time --22 and I think your next opportunity might23 be during budget season -- you can make24 sure that you have this. I'd like to do25 49 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 1100881 an analysis of what is spent at the2 federal level per person, state level per3 person.4 DEPUTY

Is that5 on reentry services?6

On reentry7 services. And then to look at8 quantitative.9 Listen, I don't mean to do10 analysis paralysis, but it does serve as11 a guide to let us know if we're moving12 the needle in the right direction. So I13 want to look at that and then the14 results, because now I'm going to ask you15 how many jobs have we gotten. I heard16 your training programs. I heard all of17 that. How many actual wage-earning jobs18 have we gotten individuals over the life19 of RISE and what is the retention rate in20 those jobs.21 DEPUTY

I can22 answer. Since we've been in office, I23 know that we have confirmed over 50024 jobs. I mean, real jobs that people are25 50 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 1100881 still actually working in. And since2 last year, it's been -- I'm sorry; since3 2010 -- I'm sorry; 2009, there's been4 300.5

So how does6 that stack up to federal, state levels7 per -- I don't need to know the per8 dollar spend. You can take some time.9 But how does that compare to the other10 programs?11

Okay. And the12 retention, the job retention, is 7413 percent. Over 65 percent of the14 individuals that have been placed in15 employment have stayed in employment more16 than 90 days. We measure retention at17 the individual staying in the same job18 for at least 91 days. So we have a great19 track record with retention as you20 compare it to the national level.21

Okay. So22 you'll give us further -- you'll give the23 Chair further detail and analysis --24

Yes.25 51 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 1100881

-- at those2 levels of reentry?3 One other question. If you4 were to say who the gold standard of5 reentry was, what city would it be?6 DEPUTY

Right7 now it's Philadelphia.8

Philadelphia.9

I'll take10 that. But I took the liberty of looking11 at some others, and I'm looking at Cory12 Booker up in Newark where they have13 served over 1,300 people, 727 jobs.14 They're a city much smaller than we are,15 but have managed to do that with their16 program. Have you evaluated theirs?17 DEPUTY

I would18 love -- because I went up and I saw above19 the Deputy Mayor for Public Safety up20 there and was looking at the program.21 The one thing they had that we did not22 have is that they had a foundation, a23 private foundation, give them $5 million24 up front and said, Do what you need. And25 52 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 1100881 so they did their entire program on a2 yearly basis with $5 million.3

And keeping4 it from the Department of Labor.5 DEPUTY

Right.6 So they've had seven and a half million7 dollars, not even from city funding, that8 was dedicated to that program.9

Is there a10 reason we didn't do it?11 DEPUTY

Well,12 we don't have a foundation that stepped13 up and said that we would -- that there's14 $5 to $8 or $9 million. What we did is15 that I directed that we redistributed16 money from the Prisons and we took money17 out of Police in order to make sure that18 this commitment was made, and we were19 funding RISE at the two and a half20 million to $3 million level, coming down21 as a result of the budget cuts, we went22 down to as much as 1.6 or 1.9 million.23 But we kept our commitment, and I've24 tried to use ARRA money with our matters25 53 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 1100881 with RHD and using green jobs and2 weatherization. I was able to steer3 money to the ex-offender populus at RHD,4 because they were our partner. I put a5 million dollars there through ARRA, and6 they've come up with their own set of7 dollars and people who are employed in8 that green job area.9 So our approach, while we10 didn't have as much money, we did, I11 think, just as good, if not better,12 because we had to run it with almost a13 third of the money that they had and yet14 we still almost came up to the exact same15 number of jobs that they did.16

In light of17 the federal landscape and budget18 scenarios at the state, is there an19 opportunity for us to at least go after20 some of those dollars in our next fiscal21 cycle?22 DEPUTY

We have23 always maintained that the Second Chance24 Act dollars, which for the entire country25 54 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 1100881 was pegged at, I think, $5 million --2 this was like no money, and so we have3 tried to do what I call a sustainable way4 of looking at reentry. I did not want to5 be in this job and not have built the6 relationships and capacity in community7 to sustain this effort much long after8 I'm gone. The idea is that this should9 be the way we do business here in the10 City of Philadelphia. And the way to do11 that is not to just look at one-time12 fixes of infusions of money that then dry13 up when the money is not there. We have14 built for the long haul, and this is15 going to be -- this is sustainable. We16 have taken dollars from the Prisons17 budget. We have now made both RISE and18 this entire effort is part and parcel of19 how we are changing what's going on at20 the prison so we can get more resources21 in there as we shift away from and as the22 declining population has allowed us to go23 from almost 10,000 people inside to now24 7,500, 2,500 less than at the all-time25 55 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 1100881 high or 2,000 less than the all-time2 high. We are using those dollars trying3 to invest to make sure that we provide a4 way out and a permanent way away from5 being incarcerated as opposed to this6 norm that had been around, which is you7 come into the prison, you go back out,8 you come back to the prison, you go back9 out, you go back to the prison. We got10 to get out of that whole mindset, and the11 way to do that is to offer opportunities.12 I won't comment on the fact13 that I think education has to be changed14 in the City. I think that we're making15 strides to do that, but obviously16 education is key.17

I'm going to18 end my comments to you on one note that19 says if you cannot find jobs, create20 them, and that's an entrepreneurial21 comment that Councilman Clarke made22 comment on. And what I will say is that23 there is an opportunity I think that if24 we creatively work with labor, organized25 56 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 1100881 labor, the unions, to do -- and you have2 done some of these. There is a major3 problem in my district with alleys4 unpaved or driveways that are in5 disrepair, and I would think that that's6 also the case in the 8th District. City7 workforces cannot go into privately owned8 alleys and driveways, but through working9 with labor, there are training10 opportunities, whether through concrete11 or asphalt, to repave thousands and12 thousands of driveways. If we can13 encourage the owners of the properties,14 the houses that are to -- if 51 percent15 of them agree, we can actually pave those16 driveways and put a temporary assessment17 lien on the properties and actually pay18 for and train them. Similarly, alleys if19 we do the same thing, because we can't go20 back there and -- you've been very21 creative, and I won't go into it in a22 public hearing --23 DEPUTY

Thank24 you.25 57 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 1100881

-- to do2 some of that, but if we start to3 negotiate that in a larger way, there is4 a workforce that is available to do some5 of that work that the City workforce6 cannot do.7 Secondly, we have 3,000 miles8 of water and sewer lines under our feet9 right as we speak, some of it 100 years10 old, twenty-three percent of that water,11 fresh water, that would produce leaks out12 into the ground. And you always read13 about water mains. If we could work out14 something with the federal government15 and/or the Water Department to do some of16 that repair work, it will pay for itself17 through the water that we save, that 2318 percent leakage.19 Now, you do a lot of stuff20 during the course of your day and21 probably we need to get some minds22 smarter than myself, and there are no23 smarter than you guys in this subject24 matter, but if we dedicated some time to25 58 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 1100881 that, there is plenty of work that we can2 create jobs in inner cities to deal with3 some of the overflow availability of4 labor within the ex-offender community.5 So what I'm saying to you is,6 this is a very good start, and, again, I7 applaud my Chairwoman. We're going to do8 this again next year to see if indeed we9 can't inch towards even improving upon10 what you've laid the foundation for.11 Thank you.12 And thank you, Madam Chair.13

Thank14 you, Councilman Jones. In fact, I met15 with a former incarcerated person this16 afternoon who is going to start his own17 business and it was a cement business.18 Actually, years ago he came to me. I19 helped him through the union gain20 employment, $18 an hour, et cetera. He21 went back to prison for DUI, and he's22 been out now and he feels the way for him23 to get back on his feet and be successful24 is to start a business. He actually does25 59 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 1100881 know the work. So when you're talking2 about what you were talking about,3 immediately I thought about him, and he's4 going to -- we're helping him get his5 certification and all the things that he6 needs to start that business, and I think7 entrepreneurship is the way to go for8 many, many people.9 DEPUTY

I10 agree.11

So I want12 thank you guys for your effort and thank13 you for your testimony, and have a good14 afternoon.15 DEPUTY

Thank16 you.17

Thank you.18

Thank19 you.20

We'd like to call21 up Katrina Young and Rachel Garland from22 Housing Unit at Community Legal Services;23 Michael Lee, Supervising Attorney at NLG24 Criminal Record Expungement Clinic; and25 60 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 1100881 Bill DiMascio, Executive Director of2 Pennsylvania Prison Society.3 (Witnesses approached witness4 table.)5

We'll6 just have to shift chairs around when we7 need to.8 Please make sure you talk into9 the mike so that we can hear you.10 Identify yourself for the record and11 proceed with your testimony. And you12 guys could choose the order.13

Good afternoon,14 Councilwoman Reed Miller and Councilman15 Jones and the members of the Public16 Safety Committee. My name is Katrina17 Young and I'm a third-year law student at18 Temple University and a legal intern at19 Community Legal Services in the Housing20 Unit. 22 I have focused my research and23 representation on tenants with criminal24 records. Thank you for the opportunity25 61 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 1100881 to present testimony on the barriers2 faced by individuals seeking housing who3 have criminal records. 8 The Housing Unit at CLS9 represents low-income Philadelphians with10 a variety of housing-related legal11 issues, including evictions, unlawful12 lockouts and utility shutoffs, disability13 accommodations, and unsafe and unsanitary14 housing conditions. Our Public Housing15 section represents individuals living in16 or seeking admission to all types of17 subsidized housing, including the Section18 8 Voucher program, public housing and19 Section 8 project-based housing. Among20 the housing problems we see are those21 stemming from clients' criminal records22 and contact with the criminal justice23 system; in particular, clients who are24 denied admission due to their criminal25 62 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 2 Many of our clients come to us3 after being denied admission for4 relatively old criminal records, some5 over 20 years old. Others have been6 denied admission for records indicating7 minor offenses such as disorderly8 conduct. 13 Federal regulations issued by14 the Department of Housing and Urban15 Development govern admissions to16 subsidized housing. These regulations17 prohibit admission to individuals who18 have committed a very short list of19 specified offenses. Aside from these20 limitations, landlords and housing21 authorities have discretion to develop22 their own admission standards and are23 free to adopt policies that are more or24 less restrictive of applicants with25 63 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 1100881 criminal records. 20 Barriers to stable, affordable21 housing lead to a host of problems for22 both the individual with the criminal23 record and the larger community. Without24 stable housing, it is difficult for25 64 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 1100881 family members to stay together, for2 adults to maintain steady employment and3 for children to succeed in school. Many4 applicants denied admission to subsidized5 housing eventually become homeless for at6 least some period of time, and7 homelessness can lead to physical and8 mental health problems, development of9 addiction or relapse and, particularly10 for women and children, victimization and11 abuse. 15 Because of these issues and the16 lack of stable housing for many of17 Philadelphia's low-income residents, we18 are pleased to see City Council take19 these preliminary steps in gathering20 information about this issue. 25 65 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 1100881

4 My name is Michael Lee and I'm the5 Supervising Attorney of the National6 Lawyers Guild Expungement Clinic. I'm7 also a solo practicing attorney focusing8 primarily in criminal expungements9 throughout Pennsylvania. 21 Because criminal background checks have22 become a routine part of applications, an23 applicant with a criminal history will24 find it almost impossible to get an25 66 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 1100881 interview, let alone a job. In fact, a2 criminal record stands out as much as3 these orange hats do on these gentlemen4 and ladies to my left. 19 It's a free direct legal service program20 whereby volunteer attorneys and law21 students assist those with criminal22 and/or arrest records in clearing their23 name. We handle expungement cases24 through all stages of the process. In25 67 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. m. m. 17 We understand that a person is18 much more than an arrest record at the19 NLG. The Chair of our local chapter20 served seven years in federal prison. We21 have a paralegal working with us who was22 recently released after 20 years in23 federal prison and was the first inmate24 to challenge the living conditions at25 68 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 2 We understand that arrest3 records don't tell a full story, and when4 we talk to our clients, we try to see5 what motivates them for an expungement,6 how it can improve their lives and how7 willing they are to serve the community8 and help others who are affected by this9 crisis. In the four months since our10 beginning, we have over 248 applications,11 of which 137, or 55 percent, have been12 accepted into our clinic. 23 But that's not enough. The24 current legal market prices this valuable25 69 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 1100881 service at at least $750. This puts this2 outside of the economic reality of those3 most affected by criminal records. We4 have a small dedicated team of volunteer5 attorneys working on a limited grant6 budget. An expungement petition costs7 $15 to file per arrest. We have one8 client with an 11-page arrest record and9 not a single conviction. 14 An area where the use of15 criminal records has one of the most16 devastating impacts is denying17 employment. We have many clients that18 come to us looking for a meaningful job,19 seeking to improve their lives and are20 being rejected despite having desired21 qualifications. Not only does the22 criminal record deny economic23 opportunities, but it also24 disenfranchises people and leads to a25 70 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 12 Most contacts come in the form of police13 harassment, government bureaucracy or a14 general disinterest in whatever issues15 are affecting people. 20 Her lifelong dream is to own her own21 daycare center. 23 About five years ago her daughter was24 jumped in front of her home and she broke25 71 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 1100881 up the fight. When the police came, she2 was arrested and not the assailants and3 she was charged with the common four4 charges - aggravated assault, which is a5 felony, simple assault, recklessly6 endangering another person and7 terroristic threats. As a result of this8 arrest and subsequent arrest record being9 formed, my client was kicked out of her10 educational program, one class short of11 completing it. The only class she needed12 was an internship at the very daycare13 center where she has been working for the14 last 25 years. 23 This is not the desired result24 we are seeking to have. This is someone25 72 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 1100881 with great qualifications who is being2 denied opportunity to help her community3 solely from an arrest record. The use of4 criminal records affect innocent people5 as well as guilty people. 17 We mentioned earlier today that there are18 some valid restrictions for denying19 someone's employment. For example, if20 you have a conviction related to a21 service that you're trying to provide, it22 makes sense that an employer should know23 about it.

However, instead of offering24 guidance and limiting the use of criminal25 73 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 14

Thank15 you. Thank you for your testimony, and16 we look forward to you participating. So17 you know we'll be in touch with you.18 Is your group represented on19 the committee that we have?20

Yes.21

Oh, okay.22 Councilman Jones.23

Thank you,24 Madam Chair.25 74 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 1100881 Fascinating, and thank you all2 for your work in this important issue.3 Can you do me a favor, separate4 for me -- and, again, you are experts in5 this, and people aren't always as engaged6 in that activity every day, and for the7 people that might be watching this on8 TV -- the difference between expungement9 for a conviction versus an arrest.10

Excellent question.11 When someone is arrested, there are two12 main results from the charge. You have13 conviction data, in which someone is14 incarcerated or has probation or parole,15 or they have non-conviction data, which16 means the case was dismissed or withdrawn17 or otherwise found not guilty.18 When someone has conviction19 data, they must first apply for a pardon20 with the Board of Governors. This can21 take up to three years, and you're really22 at the mercy of an appointed room as to23 whether or not you'll be offered24 forgiveness for your conviction. If the25 75 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 1100881 pardon is granted, you must then file for2 an expungement for those charges.3 An expungement deals with any4 time you have non-conviction data, also5 if someone has been dead for three years6 or if they were convicted of a summary7 offense, which are generally quality of8 life, and have been free from arrest for9 the last five years. So there's a more10 narrow field in which you can have an11 expungement for. But what an expungement12 does is, it erases all indications of the13 arrest, fingerprints, photographs and14 record with the State Police, the FBI and15 the arresting agency. That will then let16 you legally say you've never been17 arrested or convicted of a crime.18

Because when19 we start to deal with the box issue,20 there's the question "have you been21 convicted of a felony" and is there also22 "have you ever been arrested"?23

Yes. Again, this is24 part of the problem, is some agencies ask25 76 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 1100881 have you ever been convicted, which is2 generally legal, and some ask have you3 ever been arrested or convicted, which is4 not very legal at all, because if you've5 been arrested but found not guilty, then6 you're still innocent. And, more7 importantly, it's a basic principle of8 America that you're innocent until proven9 guilty. So we already put the burden on10 an innocent person to clear their name.11 So when you file for an expungement, you,12 the person who has been cleared by the13 legal system of wrongdoing, you have to14 take time out of your day to contact an15 attorney or to pay for this petition, go16 down to the courthouse and follow up with17 the State Police months later. So the18 burden is on an innocent person to clear19 this data. And this is the same whether20 you are convicted of a crime or not.21 When you're dealing with22 expungements, it's things that have been23 taken care of. So let's say a typical24 thing is someone gets arrested for two25 77 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 1100881 types of drug charges. One they plead2 guilty to and one they don't prosecute.3 The one you don't prosecute, you're4 entitled to a redaction, which is the5 same as an expungement technically, in6 that it removes that charge from all of7 the reporting agencies, but you still8 have that conviction. So the onus is9 still saying, Okay, you're guilty of this10 crime, but you need to go out of your way11 to remove this not guilty from your12 record. So people walk around for 15, 2013 years saying, I was found not guilty or14 the case was withdrawn, not even knowing15 that they have an arrest record, and,16 more importantly, not knowing how easy17 the Internet has made searching people's18 arrest records.19

Does that20 include no contest? Where does that fall21 in?22

Yes. That would23 include -- I don't see no contest as a24 final disposition of a case that often,25 78 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 1100881 but it would include if the prosecution2 decides not to prosecute, if the judge3 withdraws the charges, if you4 successfully complete ARD or if you've5 done a summary offense.6

So if you7 complete ARD, is there still an arrest?8

Yes. However --9

And you10 still need to go through the process of11 expungement?12

According to the13 statute, if you've completed ARD, the14 expungement is automatic, but from my15 experience and practice is that now16 people who complete ARD get a letter17 saying, You have completed your end of18 the bargain for this ARD, here is an19 attorney you may contact to file this20 petition for you. So as a21 court-appointed attorney, they've already22 determined that you can't afford to have23 legal representation for your case. We24 get you into ARD. I get paid as a25 79 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 1100881 court-appointed attorney and go about my2 business. You complete your program and3 then they tell you, By the way, you now4 have to pay someone for this expungement.5 And, as I said, the average rate is $7506 or more.7

To what8 degree -- and this is for the broader9 panel as well as yourself -- can data10 legally on housing or employment, the11 box, be used? I know in PHA they use12 this as routine to exclude people from13 public housing. Can they do it in the14 private sector? Is it legal? Do they do15 it anyway? Give me the realities of16 that.17

In the private18 sector especially, there's no prohibition19 against it, so a lot of landlords will20 run a criminal background check on21 applicants who want to be tenants.22

Is it legal?23

In Pennsylvania I24 don't know that it's been challenged.25 80 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 1100881 There are organizations that are starting2 to challenge it across the country, from3 my research, and some -- I mean, it kind4 of depends on the framing of the issue.5 In some areas, it has been found to be6 illegal, and in others it hasn't. It's a7 relatively new issue that's being8 addressed.9

Okay. My10 final question, and I'll turn this over,11 has anybody done an analysis of what laws12 need to be changed at the local level,13 state level and federal level and kind of14 gave it to legislative bodies to say, If15 you want to help move reentry into16 another level, here's the barriers that17 need to be removed at the city level,18 state level, federal level? Has anyone19 done that, to your knowledge?20

Not to my knowledge,21 but I can report back to the Committee if22 it does come across to me.23

That would24 be something I think a lot of legislative25 81 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 1100881 bodies would at least consider.2 Thank you, Madam Chair.3

Thank4 you.5 I have a question regarding the6 PHA and the application process. In your7 testimony, you said that there's a short8 list of specific offenses --9

That's correct.10

-- that11 relates to applicants here in12 Philadelphia. What is that list?13

Under federal law,14 the only -- there are actually two15 offenses from which you're completely16 prohibited from public housing: anyone17 who is on a state sex offender registry18 and anyone who has been convicted of19 manufacturing crystal methamphetamine in20 public housing. Aside from those two,21 there are no blanket prohibitions. There22 are some restrictions in terms of the23 time from which you were convicted.24 There's a waiting period for a few other25 82 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 1100881 offenses like some major drug offenses,2 but you're not -- there's no blanket3 prohibition on those applicants.4 So basically then the federal5 government leaves it up to local housing6 authorities to develop their own7 admissions policies, and they have pretty8 wide discretion. So, for example, in9 Philadelphia, the admissions policies are10 relatively strict. It is not a blanket11 policy in terms of if you have a criminal12 record, you're absolutely excluded, but13 what we would like to see is more of a14 policy that allows for more of an15 individualized look at applicants. So16 how long ago was the offense committed.17 Obviously if it was never a conviction,18 it shouldn't matter anyway, whether it19 was a minor offense, whether it has20 anything to do with your ability to be a21 good tenant, things like that.22

Okay. I23 didn't know that. I just thought that24 people --25 83 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 1100881

A lot of people2 think that, yeah.3

Excuse4 me?5

A lot of people6 have that assumption. A lot of people7 actually think that any drug convictions8 automatically preclude you from being9 accepted, and that's not true.10

Yeah.11 Someone I met with earlier today said,12 Oh, you know, if you have a drug13 conviction, you are not eligible for PHA14 and --15

For PHA, that's16 generally true. It's just that federal17 law doesn't require that. So it's the18 local policy that prohibits that, not19 federal law.20

Is there21 anywhere here in Pennsylvania that has a22 local policy that's working and helping23 people, or everybody pretty much has this24 blanket no ex-offenders?25 84 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 1100881

I mean, from my2 research, which is pretty limited, not so3 much in Pennsylvania. There are a few4 places, one that I know of in the Bay5 Area in California where they have done6 some trial admissions policies that are a7 little more relaxed, but they're more in8 areas where they have fewer applicants9 because there's not such a demand. A lot10 of times the reasons for these really11 strict policies are based on this idea12 that there's a huge demand for more13 affordable subsidized housing. And so14 that's sort of the basis for...15

Okay.16 Well, I do want to thank everyone for the17 testimony. We have probably about ten or18 12 more people.19 I actually sent an e-mail out20 letting people know about the clinic that21 you had at Enon Baptist Church.22

Thank you very much.23

And I24 know it was pretty crowded. And it's25 85 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 1100881 really discouraging that people can't2 find work because of a misdemeanor or a3 felony or, as you said, just an arrest4 that's never been erased from the record.5

Yes.6

So thank7 you, and we do look forward to working8 with everybody.9

Thank you.10

Thank11 you.12

Thank you.13

Would Michael and14 Gwen Ta'Bon please come to the stand.15

Michael16 has to go to a protest. That's why we're17 bringing him up.18 (Witnesses approached witness19 table.)20

Have a21 seat, and don't forget to speak into the22 mike so we can hear you well, and23 identify yourself for the record.24

My name is Michael25 86 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 1100881 Ta'Bon.2

Bring the3 mike closer to you, Michael. I know your4 handcuffs are in the way, but...5

Yes, ma'am.6 How y'all doing this afternoon?7 Thank you for the invitation, Ms. Miller.8

You're9 very welcome.10

12 I think it's important to13 understand that the first step to fixing14 the problem is honestly acknowledging15 that the problem exists. If you go to a16 hospital, right, but you're not the sick17 person, they're not going to be able to18 really prescribe the medication that you19 need because you're not the person. It's20 like if I'm sick at home and my wife go21 to the hospital and just tell them what's22 wrong with me and then the doctor mails23 the medication to me, how do you really24 expect me to get healed when they haven't25 87 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 2 A lot of times I think our3 problem with dealing with ex-convicts as4 well as dealing with violent children in5 the City of Philadelphia is simply6 because nobody is really letting the7 children and the ex-convicts tell you8 what they problems are. Everybody is9 just sitting there with their creative10 ideas. 20 We are the patients. 23 The twist is -- and excuse me for my lack24 of proper language, but the twist is, if25 88 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 1100881 the problem was dealt with prior to the2 incarceration, you wouldn't have a3 problem in the first place. It seems --4 I'm not saying everybody, but a lot of5 people seem to deal with the problem6 after it's on they doorstep. 10 So the problem -- what we got11 to do first of all is just really become12 what we claim to be, the City of13 Brotherly Love. If your brother is an14 ex-convict, Mr. Jones, he might get a job15 because he's your brother, but are you16 really showing brotherly love in the City17 of Philadelphia anymore? Because the18 young people have changed it to19 Killadelphia. And which title is more20 important today if we really be honest21 about the problem? Not to insult our22 city, but so that we can honestly fix the23 problem that's here. 25 89 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 11 Can we honestly ask ourselves12 is that a true statement? Are they13 really keeping people in safe, secure14 facilities? Or do people usually go to15 jail and come out worse than they went16 in? Because if we don't be honest about17 it -- because 85 percent of the people18 who are incarcerated come home, what type19 of person do you want to move next door20 to you is what the general public who21 acts like they don't care need to start22 asking they self? 25 90 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 1100881 And the streets is here to2 help. We here in solidarity saying we3 understand that in order to fight this4 war, the five fingers have to ball up5 into a fist together. If you poke at the6 finger with one finger poked too hard,7 you're going to break the finger. )19

We got to lead by20 example. When the blind lead the blind,21 everybody falls in the ditch. Momma told22 us that a long time ago.23 The 13th Amendment, slavery and24 mortal servitude is illegal, except when25 91 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 1100881 you've been duly convicted. So we2 dealing with another situation where we3 haven't been honest with ourselves.4 Slavery and mortal servitude is not5 abolished. The word "abolished" means to6 put an end to something. The 13th7 Amendment states "except." The word8 "except" makes the word "abolished" null9 and void.10 This is what happens when the11 ex-convict goes up state, begins to read12 the books and find out what meanings are13 to the words.14 And so now slavery has always15 been a business. Somebody is sending16 they kids to college or sending our kids17 to prison, and until we deal with that,18 we going to have this problem, because19 you got one group of government that20 wants to really help get the people out,21 but then you got some people in22 government that benefit off of the people23 being sent to prison. This is business.24 It always been a business. It never25 92 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 1100881 stopped. It never was abolished. It2 just changed, the law changed, so that it3 wouldn't look like it's really that much4 of a problem. You understand where I'm5 coming from?6 So now what happened in7 slavery? Let's look at slavery just not8 as a reason to hate nobody, but we9 supposed to learn from our past, use what10 we learned in the present to make our11 future better.12 So let's look at slavery. What13 happened when they said we was free?14 Well, they let us go, and a lot of the15 slaves actually ran back to the16 plantation because they wasn't mentally17 and spiritually capable of being free men18 and women. Nobody dealt with the inside19 of the human being in order to prepare20 them for society.21 So now let's take that into22 this modern-day slave thing that we23 dealing with that people making money off24 called the penitentiary. You let the25 93 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 1100881 people go, but while they're there, okay,2 you got a training program in the school,3 but the books is ten years behind in4 curriculum. You got a computer in there,5 but you don't have Microsoft Word and the6 seven and eight and nine. You dealing7 with one, two and three. So even if8 somebody did want to give them a job,9 would they really be qualified to10 compete?11 They getting all this money.12 Where is it going? Somebody got to13 really want to help somebody before it14 come to they doorstep.15 The idea of that seven years,16 that -- I mean, no disrespect to the17 brother, but he said -- I can't remember18 the brother's name, the Deputy Mayor, but19 he said something about in seven years20 after they get out of jail, then we could21 talk about giving them a real22 opportunity. So if you go to school --23 remember when you was little? Anybody24 remember when they was kids in here? You25 94 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 1100881 remember when you was little and your mom2 spanks you because you got a bad report3 card? How many times did your mom spank4 you for the same bad report card? You5 mean to tell me anybody in here ever did6 what they mom five years later spanking7 them for something they did five years8 ago? Because ex-convicts is still9 getting spanked five, six, seven years10 later. Come on, man.11 Listen, you ask -- he who is12 without sin, let him cast the first13 stone, right? Right?14 (Applause.)15

So just because16 some people didn't get caught for the17 things they done, right, but they know18 they was wrong because they get on they19 knees and they pray for forgiveness.20 What if God was like government? What if21 he gave people half a chance so, Well,22 I'm going to forgive you halfway, so I'm23 going to let you fill your lungs up with24 half my air. How many people would have25 95 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 1100881 asthma?2 What if he said, I'm going to3 just give a half a heartbeat? How many4 people will be in the hospital halfway5 dead?6 If you going to say I did my7 time and you're going to call the8 Department of Corrections -- listen to9 the title of the word, Department of10 Corrections. You have a department to11 correct people. You said that you was12 rehabilitating people and getting them13 ready for society. Well, taxpayers is14 paying for the Department of Corrections15 to correct people. So to not give the16 ex-convict a job when they get home is to17 say that you wasting money on the18 Department of Corrections, because19 obviously they ain't correcting nobody.20 (Applause.)21

I mean, I'm not22 trying to insult or disrespect, but let's23 keep it real one time in City Hall. We24 dealing with crack babies back in '84,25 96 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 1100881 '85, '86. It's 2004, '5 and '6, '8, '10,2 '11. So then crack babies is grown and3 now they got kids. 6 Now, back in the '80s, I7 remember when the newspaper talked about8 what problems the crack babies was going9 to have. Did anybody really deal with10 the problems on the inside of the crack11 baby? They was cute and little and you12 gave them the bottle and I care about13 them when they in the hospital, but when14 that crack baby turn 18, he's a crack15 adult now, throw him in jail, give him16 ten to 20. 18 Come on, man. Like we got to19 do better as a people, man. Somebody got20 to start loving somebody. The real21 problem here is love. Jesus say -- what22 did he say? How many times do I forgive23 my brother? Seven times? He said, No;24 70 times seven. You know why? Because25 97 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 2 So we got to start giving3 people some true forgiveness and stop4 playing games with God, because he's the5 real judge. And that's why they say the6 righteous scarcely make it in, because7 they get self-righteous. See, Jesus8 said, You didn't come visit me when I was9 in prison. 12 All the good works you're13 doing, all the good intentions and all14 that, they say that good intentions pave15 the way to hell, man. Look at us. Our16 city is in hell. 17 Ask some kids that can't go to school18 because somebody knock they homey eye19 socket out his head. 21 Now, here's the twist. You22 want to create some jobs? Well, AA says23 that one addict helps another addict,24 right, to stop getting high. They say25 98 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 1100881 one alcoholic stops another alcoholic2 from drinking, right? How many millions3 of dollars going to these programs, AA4 and NA? Well, what about the new5 program, one ex-convict helping the6 potential convict to stop committing7 crime? 10 So now you got all these11 gang-bangers from the '70s that did they12 15 to 30. They home now. Now you got13 these new gangs in school. Nobody in14 school obviously can really deal with15 them, because whatever non-profit in the16 school organization throw at them, the17 kids is winning. 21 You can't even go outside and play. So22 the kids is winning. But why not send23 the ex-gang-banger into the school to24 deal with the new gang-banger? Why not25 99 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 1100881 send the drug dealer in the school2 that -- give him the job to deal with the3 little guy that's trying to sell drugs4 now. Because, you know why? See, what5 people don't understand is, gangsters6 don't want they kids to get shot. Drug7 dealers don't want they children addicted8 to drugs. So you can utilize the same9 people that just don't have no purpose10 obviously to fix the problem. And I bear11 witness and I got people with me that say12 I'm on 1924 Hunting Park Avenue and God13 gave me a job, and they all coming. God14 is using me to fix the ex-convicts, but15 guess what? I still ain't got no PVC16 pipes in my house, because the government17 won't give me a job. You understand? 20 See, you got to understand21 something, bro. While he talking about a22 training program, the drug dealer got23 drugs right now. I got a job for you now24 and I got a couple dollars for you to get25 100 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. Man, you know that money change3 people position. I just came from the Convention6 Center. I seen all them $10,000 coats7 and nice cars, but everybody being8 tightfisted with that bread. Somebody9 got to share. That's just why the Bible10 says that it would be easier for a camel11 to fit through the eye of a needle than12 for a rich man to make it into the13 kingdom of God. If anybody know God,14 man, this ain't my words. This is God15 talking. 16 Let some of that bread go, man,17 and help somebody. Invest. 19 COUNCILWOMAN MILLER:20 Mr. 21

Yes, ma'am.22

We've23 heard you. You made a lot of excellent24 points.25 101 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 1100881

Yes, ma'am. Thank2 you.3

But it's4 time for you to wrap up your testimony.5 I think -- is your wife going to testify?6

Yes. And I'll let7 her finish now. I just want to say, we8 need help, all of us. And we not here,9 you know what I mean, to cause any10 problems in City Hall when we be showing11 up. It's simply I think that people12 forgot what it was like when these rooms13 used to be filled up with people who14 cared 50 and 60 years ago. So the15 streets is going to start filling these16 rooms up again, showing that we care. We17 just need somebody to care back about us.18 God bless y'all.19 (Applause.)20

Thank21 you.22

My name is Gwen23 Ta'Bon. Hello, Councilman --24

How you25 102 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 1100881 doing?2

-- Jones,3 Councilwoman Donna Reed and Attorney4 William.5 I am just basically here today6 as a person that has experienced being7 with someone that was incarcerated. And8 I also worked in the corporate America9 world wherein which I worked in human10 resources of the Department of Public11 Health. So I know of the hard-to-find12 positions and jobs that are available,13 but it's hard to find people that would14 like to fill those jobs.15 For example, in point would be16 a vector control worker. They usually17 are involved with setting traps for rats18 and things of that nature, and that's a19 hard position to fill for people that are20 not used to doing those type of things21 and dealing with those type of creatures.22 However, we have people in prison that23 are used to the mice and the rats that24 they see all the time, the things that we25 103 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 1100881 don't normally want to deal with. That's2 a job wherein which they could also fill.3 However, I would like to just4 briefly touch on the equal employment5 opportunity. Title VII of the Civil6 Rights Act of 1964 was the first federal7 law designed to protect most U.S.8 employees from employment discrimination.9 It was further enhanced when President10 Lyndon B. Johnson signed an order in 196511 to prohibit federal contractors and/or12 employers from discriminating against13 employees on the basis of race, sex,14 creed, religion, color and national15 origin. However, more recently, state16 statutes have listed other traits as17 protected classes, including age18 discrimination, sexual orientation,19 Americans with Disability Act of 1990 and20 Vietnam Era Veterans Readjustment Act,21 but, most importantly, the Genetic22 Information Non-Discriminating Act of23 2008. That was only three years ago, and24 basically that forbids discrimination on25 104 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 1100881 the basis of family history and genetic2 information.3 I believe that there should be4 an act that forbids discrimination on the5 basis of criminal history, because it's6 the criminal history that they are basing7 why or why not they should give a job to8 someone. So, therefore, if this ban the9 box would actually happen and be set in10 place, therefore, people that have11 records will not be discriminated upon.12 Thank you very much.13 (Applause.)14

Thank15 you. Thank you for coming in. Thank you16 guys.17 Bill DiMascio, Pennsylvania18 Prison Society.19

God bless y'all.20 MR. DiMASCIO: I'm losing my21 audience.22

There23 goes your audience.24 MR. DiMASCIO: Good afternoon.25 105 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 1100881

Good2 afternoon.3 MR. DiMASCIO: I want to first4 say thank you, Councilwoman Miller,5 Councilman Jones.6 This issue of reentry is7 probably one of the most important and8 challenging of our time. And I feel like9 I've just been co-opted, because I wanted10 to say that the Prison Society has been11 in business for over 200 years and we12 started helping formerly incarcerated men13 and women to find a way to successfully14 reintegrate themselves after those15 periods of incarceration from way back16 when. So I brought my colleague, Art17 Whittaker, who is our employment18 specialist. He's more familiar with19 those old days than I am.20

21 MR. DiMASCIO: But it's time22 for a change, and I think that if23 anything comes from this hearing, it's24 going to be recognition that we25 106 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 4 The gentleman before me put it5 very clearly. We have a Department of6 Corrections, which is not really7 concerned about correcting much of8 anything. We are warehousing people. So9 after the waste of years of people's10 lives, we expect them to come out and fit11 in to society and be productive, without12 job skills, without the kind of training13 that they need. That has to stop. 18 The punishment is the loss of19 personal freedom and liberty, time in20 confinement. That's punishment. 25 107 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 8 An overall approach to better9 enable former offenders to rejoin the10 workplace and provide for their families11 by breaking down barriers will positively12 impact all of us. Not just them, but all13 of us in society. 21 In addition, we should put in place a22 system to review employer decisions that23 gives the job applicant recourse if an24 error or problem is found. We also need25 108 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 4 Finding meaningful employment5 is a critical first step in the reentry6 plan of all former prisoners. It is a7 difficult quest. Many ex-offenders lack8 up-to-date job skills, some have no prior9 work experience, and still others have10 low educational attainment levels. 12 We should have educational programs going13 on inside the prisons. 17 There are attitudes that we18 have been furthering for decades now to19 demonize people who get themselves in20 trouble. We have got to get away from21 that. 24 Approximately 16,000 getting released in25 109 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 1100881 Pennsylvania. 3 South Africa opened up to4 Nelson Mandela when he was released. He5 went on to become president of his6 country. The same thing happened with7 other international figures, Lech Walesa8 in Poland, Vaclav Havel in9 Czechoslovakia. 15 We recommend that a number of16 steps that would improve employment17 opportunities for former offenders might18 include some of these:19 We need visible support by the20 City through hiring practice. I think21 one of the reasons I'm so delighted to be22 here today is that this hearing is23 another sign of your leadership, which is24 essential. Without this, if you're not25 110 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 1100881 going to lead us and this community,2 we're never going to get on top of this3 problem. 8 And, Councilman, I know you've9 raised this issue of expungement several10 times, and I would just say to you, I11 serve on the Commission on Wrongful12 Convictions in the state government, and13 we have been, for the last four years,14 wrestling with this issue of wrongful15 convictions, what happens to innocent16 people who are wrongly convicted, and17 then it turns out that they're totally18 innocent. We are refusing to expunge19 their records. There is a real hassle20 going on in Harrisburg today, because21 their records don't get automatically22 expunged. Now, why would that be? This23 is all part and parcel, I believe, of24 this rush to demean someone else, and25 111 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 13

14 So it's my job to assist those15 former offenders and those with criminal16 records try to find sustainable17 employment opportunities in and around18 the Philadelphia area. I work every day19 with employers. I work every day with20 former offenders who come through our21 reentry programs. 25 112 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 1100881 Most of the companies, I can2 honestly say, that hire large numbers of3 former offenders are low-paying jobs,4 difficult work, high turnover, no5 benefits and no opportunity, real6 opportunity, for advancement. 10 Many that I speak to on a daily11 basis -- and I've heard it ever since12 I've started, and I've gotten to know13 these offenders, former offenders, over14 the years, and they honestly express to15 me that if they can't find a decent job,16 that they are really going to turn back17 to crime. They're going to start dealing18 drugs again or they're going to be19 involved in some kind of theft or20 robbery. They tell me this, and they're21 honest about it. And it's a large22 percentage of people that think that way,23 because they are not afforded the24 opportunities with some of these25 113 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 1100881 companies that -- especially these large2 companies out there that I try every day,3 banging my head against the wall, trying4 to go through the layers of management to5 find the person who ultimately makes the6 hiring decision. So I spend a lot of my7 time going after those small, independent8 type of employers that can make a9 decision. 13 I can honestly say to an14 employer that I've never, in all the15 individuals that I've worked with and16 have helped find jobs, I have never had17 an instance of violence on the job or an18 incident of theft even on the job. 22 I mean, fortunately, for the23 men and women that I work with, they have24 someone like me as an advocate for them25 114 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 1100881 and can go to these employers and open up2 these dialogues. I mean, recently I had3 the very good fortune of sitting down4 with a major employer of Philadelphia5 that employs some 1,800 people just in6 the Northeast, not to mention across the7 country. They would never hire a person8 with a former offense, never, regardless9 of what it was, felony, misdemeanor, they10 wouldn't have hired someone. But after11 spending time with their Director of12 Human Resources at their facility and13 presenting information to them,14 statistics that I've compiled or given15 them an idea of who the men and women, I16 had to write up several times so they can17 bring to the higher-ups and the higher18 level corporate offices, take to their19 loss prevention people and explain to20 them who these people are and what kind21 of success I've had, the type of22 individual I've had, and fortunately now23 they are opening this up. They've24 approved it on a limited basis, because25 115 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 3 Their offices are in the4 communities where there is a large5 percentage of former offenders in the6 community. 9 I can't blame a lot of10 employers for making decisions just based11 on an application, and with the thousands12 they get a day for every job opening and13 see a felony, hey, they're going to toss14 that aside. But I can't blame them, only15 because they don't really know who --16 they haven't worked with a former17 offender before. They haven't worked18 with people. 21 I really believe that there has22 to be more investment in programs like23 ours where we can go out and educate the24 public and educate employers on the25 116 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 1100881 benefits. I believe the ban the box2 legislation is extremely important,3 because that's going to give men and4 women the opportunity to interview,5 address their skills, and allow these6 hiring managers to see who they are as7 people first before they get into their8 criminal background. 15 I wanted to keep it brief.

I16 know I'm kind of going on here, but I17 really believe our reentry programs that18 we have here at the Prison Society have19 had a real impact on improving the20 direction, encouraging behavioral change,21 the confidence in guys with former22 offenses getting out of jail, to show23 them that they do have the skills and the24 abilities to go out there and give them25 117 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 2 And in the meantime, they can work with3 me and have those relationships with4 employers, and hopefully they get the5 better jobs with the better wages and the6 real opportunities, and that's going to7 really lessen the crime in our8 neighborhoods and the safety in our9 communities. 10 So thank you very much. 12

Thank13 you. Thank you for your testimony.14 I actually wanted to ask -- I15 think I wrote it down -- particular16 questions.17 How successful are you? What18 are your outcomes with helping people19 gain employment?20

Well, I mean,21 it's a good question. There's a number22 of different programs and there are a23 number of different programs that are24 divided into it. At one point we were25 118 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 1100881 doing primarily a program called Pride2 that was primarily drug and alcohol-based3 type of programs, and it was opened up,4 we're working with veterans as well. But5 we're well above -- I mean, as far as6 finding employment for people, we're well7 above 70 percent. Sometimes it's much8 higher than that, 80 percent finding9 employment. And once these individuals10 work with us, they know they can come11 back. As long as they stay employed, do12 what they're supposed to do, they can13 come back. I'll always work for them for14 those better jobs and finding those real15 opportunities for them in the future.16 MR. DiMASCIO: Councilwoman, we17 run several different reentry programs,18 as Art was alluding to. Some of them are19 targeted to specific groups, veterans,20 fathers, whatever, but we also run a21 program just for walk-ins. We have no22 time limit. Anybody who has ever been23 incarcerated and may have worked and then24 maybe got laid off, they can walk in and25 119 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 1100881 we'll try to provide assistance to2 anyone.3 So it's a little difficult4 sometimes to gauge just where your5 success rate is. On certain programs6 it's much higher than on others.7

Exactly. They8 are much higher.9

Do you10 find certain industries are easier to11 work with than others?12

Yeah,13 definitely, and I think a lot of job14 developers and people that do what I do15 find that supermarkets, warehousing,16 assembly line, those type of industries.17 Supermarkets especially have been very18 good, I think, as a whole with hiring19 former offenders. They really haven't --20 especially like Brown ShopRite, for21 instance, that really does want to hire22 within their community and who their23 customer base is, and they realize that24 former offenders are part of that base.25 120 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 1100881 So there are certain industries2 that will hire more, trash collection,3 you know, things like that, but they're4 generally those labor-type positions.5 People don't get the opportunity to go to6 work at Comcast and some of these big7 telecommunication agencies and some of8 these big corporations, which if they9 did, they can go in as an entry-level10 position and work their way up. And11 that's what I try to look for. That's12 what my goal is, to find more of those.13

In14 earlier testimony you talked about15 training for cable, I'll just say,16 installers. Not your testimony but17 someone else's. And I said to myself,18 where do they go to work, because we19 weren't sure whether the companies that I20 believe are doing cable would hire them.21

Well, that was22 something I didn't talk about, because23 that's something that is very frustrating24 to me. A lot of guys come out -- men and25 121 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 1100881 women that come out of prison have2 certificates with fiberoptic training,3 and there's nothing they can do with4 them. It really is wasting money5 training people in that direction. And I6 know when the gentleman was here from7 RISE -- and I see a lot of different8 programs for weatherization and green9 jobs, but there aren't those jobs out10 there too, and a lot of money, funding11 goes to those type of programs. They12 could be better served in other areas.13

Okay.14 Thank you.15 Councilman Jones.16 You know, I could actually ask17 like a million questions, because this18 topic is that type of topic, and it's19 just something that we just have to keep20 working on, whether we have hearings,21 whether we have little small task force22 meetings, et cetera. I just wonder why23 the state or anybody would -- I would24 think that they know the most likely25 122 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 1100881 places that people will get hired. So2 let's do training around that rather than3 people coming out with a certificate4 that's of no use.5 MR. DiMASCIO: Fifteen years6 ago we used to get a lot of people hired7 in the hospitality area, chambermaids,8 people worked in hotels, of course,9 people who worked in nursing homes, and,10 of course, gradually those jobs became11 prohibited for those folks. They're just12 taking them away.13

I talked the14 other day with the union representative15 for AFSCME and the hospital workers. He16 told me, Art, don't even bother having17 people apply in a hospital, because none18 of the hospitals I deal with will hire a19 felon, even for janitorial work, and20 regardless of the crime being, you know,21 a minor drug conviction or anything with22 a felony, regardless of the crime, and23 that's too bad.24

That is25 123 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 1100881 too bad.2 Councilman Jones.3

Thank you,4 Madam Chair.5 A couple of things. One, if6 there is a gold standard industry in7 Philadelphia that hires ex-offenders, who8 is it?9

Again, I10 mentioned Brown ShopRite. I mean, and11 that's not -- but that's not the answer,12 you know, just the supermarket industry.13 I tell you, I'd like to see more people14 coming out of prison with sewing15 backgrounds, because believe it or not,16 there's opportunities out there for good17 sewing operators, machine operators.18

Well, I'm19 going to --20

That's an easy21 one for me to get hired.22

I think one23 of the things that I think gets lost in24 this is that there's an opportunity to25 124 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 1100881 create your own job, and that is to start2 your own business. In another life I ran3 the Philadelphia Commercial Development4 Corporation, PCDC, funded or contracted5 with a lot of the small businesses in the6 City of Philadelphia. We had an7 entrepreneurial training program where we8 embraced ex-offenders, and I want to tell9 you, what do the following industries10 have in common: a delivery business, a11 roofing business, a housing contracting12 business, exterminating company, catering13 business, a maintenance business, lawn14 care business, snow removal business.15 All of them can be started for less than16 $2,000. All of those businesses can be17 started for less than $2,000. I know18 because I've done it, and they've been19 successful, many of whom were20 ex-offenders.21 So I don't want us to not look22 at the idea of creating our own jobs, and23 in so doing, when you are an ex-offender24 and you are the CEO of your company,25 125 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 1100881 you're more inclined to understand, look2 into the plight of others who are in3 similar circumstances.4

Oh, absolutely.5

So, I mean,6 I just -- I hear us talk about this in a7 way that kind of says, you know, if we8 don't find jobs, then I'm going to go9 back to the life I had. I have10 absolutely zero tolerance for that. That11 is not going to be the excuse. And I'm12 not from Mars. Some of my best13 friends -- when I say "best friends," I14 mean best friends. I didn't fall off a15 turnip truck and become a Councilman. I16 was from 54th and Berks Street gang. All17 right? Many of my alumni are away up18 state, and I often see them and talk to19 them. That's real rap.20 But what I'm saying to you is21 that we have a mutual responsibility,22 because they're going to come home and23 they're going to be my neighbor. My24 daughter has to marry someone. And25 126 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 1100881 there's no such thing in my mind as2 throw-away people. So we've got to get3 this thing right. But we have to take4 personal responsibility and we have to be5 realistic about some of our options too,6 because I get the college student that7 comes to my office and says, Councilman,8 I know you're doing things with community9 courts for ex-offenders. I know you're10 doing things to provide jobs by way of11 entrepreneurship for ex-offenders. What12 do I have to do? Hit someone over the13 head to get a job from you? And I can't14 answer them in that way now.15 We have to, in a dual track, be16 able to get ex-offenders not17 discriminated against, but we also have18 to provide general opportunities. And19 I'm saying whether you're the kid from20 college or kid from Graterford, starting21 your own business is a viable option, and22 we have to encourage that training and23 mindset within our community24 collectively, whether you're the offender25 127 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 1100881 or the ex-offender or not. We have to2 look at that as a real post-recession3 reality. And there's plenty of work to4 be done.5 I get sick of seeing trucks6 from Jersey coming into my neighborhood7 fixing things that guys from my community8 can fix. I have a similar problem -- I'm9 going to get mine in, because I listened.10 But I'm going to tell you that I have a11 high population of senior citizens, and12 for lack of a handyman to replace a $1213 wax ring in their toilet that sinks into14 the ceiling, that causes mold, that makes15 them homeless, that we have a need for16 not -- I don't need a carpenter to do17 that. I don't need a registered plumber.18 I need a handyman that I can send that is19 reputable to this person's house that's20 not going charge them an arm and a leg.21 So we have within our22 community -- Malik El-Shabazz said,23 Control the space you live in and to be24 able to control your own wealth. And if25 128 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 1100881 we start to look at it like that too, we2 can grow some businesses. I know people3 that are doing well that are ex-offenders4 that run their own businesses that hire5 other ex-offenders.6 So I'm saying to all of us, we7 have a responsibility. I do not shun8 that. Any obstacle that is fair to9 remove, this Councilperson, myself, we'll10 do that. But also these kids ain't from11 Mars. They're our own, and we have to12 take responsibility for them. And a lot13 of times it's because they -- I grew up14 on the gold watch that some day if I went15 and did the right thing, I was going to16 retire from a job after 20 years. That17 may not be their reality. The reality18 may be we have to start our own19 enterprises so that we create those20 opportunities. And I don't want us to21 just get stuck on one track.22 And I feel better now.23

Okay. I just24 wanted to say that I feel the same way25 129 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 1100881 you do, and one of the things in the2 reentry program, the classes that we do,3 is taking personal responsibility. I4 don't enjoy working with people that5 aren't motivated and won't do things for6 themselves. I don't particularly like to7 work with people that want me to find8 them a job rather than learning how to9 look for a job. That's what gives me the10 greatest pleasure, when somebody says,11 Art, how can I find a job? That's more12 important to me than just saying, Can you13 give me a job, you know, because I don't14 think that works.15 I was just going to say that16 some of the things you had mentioned with17 the jobs, the self-employed jobs, I don't18 have anybody that has a license. It's19 all public transportation. None of these20 guys have licenses at all.21

Why is that?22

They've all23 been suspended, driver's licenses. They24 don't have their own transportation.25 130 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 1100881 They can't get around.2

Is that a3 result of some action by the court or --4

Fines, a lot of5 fines.6

So the fines7 prohibit them from getting a license?8

Yeah. That's a9 big issue.10

That's11 something.12

I know13 when I used to work for State14 Representative David Richardson, that was15 an issue, the lack of a driver's license,16 and driver's licenses are so important as17 it relates to employment. You know that.18

It's huge.19

That is20 something that we can figure out.21 I think there's another step to22 that, too. It's my understanding -- I23 can't remember it because it's been a24 while, but if you have a driver's license25 131 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 1100881 and everything is fine and you go to2 prison, you can put your driver's license3 sort of on hold or something like that.4 You may be more familiar. It's been5 years since I dealt with that. And most6 people don't know that. You just let the7 license expire. And it's easier to get8 it back if you actually put it sort of in9 that holding category. I can't remember10 the terminology, but --11

Yeah. I know12 what you mean.13

But it's14 something that we used to do like 1815 years ago. I think when people get16 convicted, there needs to be maybe a17 little fact sheet of things they can do18 that will help them when they're finally19 released.20

When I worked21 with primarily drug and alcohol-related22 offenses, individuals with those type of23 offenses and certain punishment, they --24 no one had a drivers's license. No one25 132 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 1100881 could have one. It was a result of fines2 or they were prohibited for whatever3 reason. The reason behind it other than4 fines, I don't remember, but that's a5 real serious, big issue.6

That's a7 biggie.8

They can't get9 jobs outside of our immediate10 transportation areas either.11

Right.12

So it limits.13 It limits.14

Well, one15 of our speakers today, one of our16 witnesses, will talk about her program17 that actually does transportation for the18 jobseekers. Once they secure the job,19 they continue to do transportation, and20 eventually maybe they can get a ride with21 a co-worker or they can earn enough to22 buy a vehicle themselves. So she'll talk23 about that. I know that that takes24 additional funding to do transporting,25 133 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 1100881 but I also thought a few years back there2 was an opportunity here in Philadelphia3 for -- because it was a big discussion,4 lots of discussions around getting people5 to work in the suburbs. So there was a6 whole transportation that you're probably7 very familiar with.8

Yeah, there9 are.10

They no11 longer have that?12

They do, but13 you have to get a certain number of14 people that are going to the same15 location. So that would mean they'd have16 to be hired en masse for a certain17 company. And certain companies, that18 just doesn't happen. They don't hire19 that many at one time. So that used to20 be --21

Well,22 transportation is certainly an issue.23

But it is a big24 issue, yes.25 134 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 1100881

Okay. I2 want to thank you. Thank you for your3 testimony and thank you for working with4 us.5

Thank you very6 much.7 MR. DiMASCIO: Thank you.8

Thank9 you.10 Next we have Wayne Jacobs,11 Broderick Carroll, Reuben Jones. And12 after these three, we have Charles13 Thomas, Letitia Mack and Reverend Darrell14 Dandridge and Jennie Miller.15 (Witnesses approached witness16 table.)17

Broderick -- we're18 going to testify after him, because he19 has to leave.20

I can't21 hear you. Talk in the mike.22

I said we're going23 to testify right after he do, right after24 Broderick do, because he has an25 135 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 1100881 appointment he had to get to, and this is2 important.3

So this4 is Broderick Carroll?5

Yes.6

Okay.7 Please proceed with your testimony.8

Good evening. My9 name is Broderick Carroll.10

Pull the11 mike up and talk into the mike so we can12 hear you.13

I said good14 evening. My name is Broderick Carroll,15 and I'm just here to let the people know16 how important it is to ban the box,17 because of two prior experiences I had.18 I had -- just last year, I had applied19 for some life insurance, and the sales20 representative, he was at my niece's21 house and I applied for life insurance,22 and I was approved. I gave the man my23 money to apply for life insurance. He24 said, you know, you need $42. Give me25 136 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 1100881 that and we'll start your life insurance.2 So I gave him the money.3 A week later, somebody called4 my house -- well, called me on my phone5 and started asking me questions, all kind6 of questions, do you smoke, do you drink.7 No. No, I don't do none of8 that. I don't do none of that.9 He said, Well, have you ever10 been locked up?11 I said, Yes.12 He said, You on probation or13 parole?14 I said, Yeah.15 He said, Hold on for a minute.16 Came back to the phone and said, We not17 going to be able to accept you. We'll18 send you your money back.19 And I was like -- I didn't20 understand it, but my whole thing was21 this happened last year. I've been out22 of jail since 2005. So that's like five23 years I haven't been in jail, and now you24 going to tell me because I say I'm on25 137 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 1100881 probation or I've been locked up that I2 can't get life insurance now?3 Just last month I went for a4 job interview, and at the interview, I5 presented my resume to the people, and6 they looking at my resume. They say, Oh,7 you have a superb resume.8 I was going for to be a youth9 coordinator, a mentor, which I just had10 that job last year. I had child abuse11 clearance and everything.12 So they was like, in the13 interview, they was like, you know, I14 like your resume. It's impressive. I15 like all the questions -- you answered16 all the questions right. We going to17 hire you. So she said, Go on out and18 fill out the application.19 So, you know, when you got to20 the box "have you ever been convicted," I21 checked it off yes. Five minutes later,22 they call me in the office and says, Oh,23 we can't hire you because of that.24 But my whole thing is, I'm only25 138 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 1100881 dealing with children. How through my2 record as a retail theft actually --3 that's what my record consists of, a4 retail theft. How do that affect me of5 getting a job of dealing with children,6 when I have a certificate from the United7 Way stating that I passed the class as a8 mentor, and on my resume I was just last9 year, I was a youth coordinator? So now10 how is it that I'm not qualified to work,11 you know, for a child, to work with12 children? But it's just because of that13 box, you know, yes, I've been convicted14 of a felony, which was 2005. This is15 2011 and you still holding that against16 me, you know. So...17

That's18 very unfortunate.19

Yeah.20

And you21 passed the child abuse clearance and --22

And I just had a23 job.24

And it25 139 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 1100881 wasn't an assault.2

Right.3

So it's4 unbelievable. And I have never heard5 of -- and I don't know everything about6 this. I never heard that you were7 denied, people were denied insurance8 because of a criminal record. What was9 that, life insurance?10

Yes, life11 insurance.12

Life13 insurance. That's the first time I've14 heard that.15

So now when I go16 to apply for life insurance, you know, do17 I tell the truth or do I lie?18

Well, I'm19 sure you'll figure that one out, but I20 know I would. Well, it depends on --21 Will made a point that they'll deny your22 claim if something happened to you, but I23 think that's something that you'd have to24 think about.25 140 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 1100881

Right.2

I mean,3 who would tell? Do they do that kind of4 investigation? Well, they don't want to5 pay, but okay.6 Well, Mr. Broderick, listen, I7 want to thank you for your testimony.8

I want to thank9 you for allowing me to be here. Y'all10 have a good evening.11

All12 right.13

We got like maybe14 like six people that want -- about six15 more people. Will that be okay?16

I17 can't -- are they on the list?18

I think so. How19 many we got on the list left?20

We have21 some other folks.22

We can go fast.23

Let us24 get the -- you two, and then we'll get25 141 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 1100881 the other organizations, bring them up2 and then we can have those other folk.3

Okay.4

All5 right?6

Madam Chairman7 and the honorable members of the Public8 Safety Committee, thank you for the9 opportunity to speak to you today to10 bring this issue to light. 22 For the past 11 years, XCE has conducted23 anti-illegal gun rallies in one of the24 City's hot spots for violence to raise25 142 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 1100881 community awareness of the issue of gun2 violence and to empower community3 residents to take aggressive action to4 save the lives of youth. 9 In 2003, XCE partnered up with10 Up Against the Law Collective to form the11 Part of Me Clinic to remove barriers to12 employment for formerly convicted -- for13 the formerly convicted through the14 utilization of executive clemency. In15 this work, XCE worked with Community16 Legal Services and the Philadelphia17 Public Defenders Association. 21 XCE also worked with government22 and community-based organizations serving23 youth in the effort to prevent violence24 at its root. These organizations include25 143 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 4 The work of XCE has been5 recognized by this distinguished body6 with a resolution presented on October7 21st, 2010. 11 XCE is in total support of the12 ban the box bill. XCE stands firmly13 against all discriminatory practices14 against formerly convicted people. S. prisons and20 jails. Another 5 million people are21 under supervision by the criminal justice22 system on probation or parole. More than23 70 percent of those in prison are people24 of color. Pennsylvania has a higher25 144 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 1100881 correction population in all but eight2 states. Out of all 50 states,3 Pennsylvania has the greatest disparity4 between white and non-white incarceration5 rates. 9 The punishment does not end10 once a convicted felon has been released11 from incarceration. 16 When the formerly convicted return to17 their communities and families and try to18 put their lives back together, they19 encounter a myriad of barriers that make20 it extraordinarily difficult to care for21 their families, find work, get safe22 housing, obtain public benefits, or for23 immigrants to stay in the same country as24 their families. As the entire political25 145 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 1100881 economy of the criminal legal system2 relies on racist and classless practices3 in arrest, conviction and sentencing4 procedures, a disproportionate number of5 ex-offenders are people of color and poor6 people. 25 146 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 5 Although the ban the box bill6 would not be a cure-all for a system of7 apartheid as it relates to the formerly8 convicted, but it will be a start. 23 We often note that too many of24 our children grow up in fatherless homes,25 147 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 1100881 which leave our children at risk to2 delinquency and other developmental3 maladies. 15

Thank16 you, Steve.17 Wayne, are you testifying?18

Yes. I have a19 little just something briefly to say.20

Identify21 yourself for the record.22

25 148 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 1100881 When all of our positions first2 started out doing this kind of work, we3 recognized that it's not no one size fit4 all for formerly convicted people. You5 know, you got formerly convicted people6 that fits in different areas, but they7 trying to set things up to make it one8 size fit all. 18 You know, when looking at the19 extent of the convictions and how it20 affects people, you can have people that21 been off parole and probation for 20, 30,22 35 years crime-free. 25 149 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 11 They are held to the last -- until they12 die, and this is the reason why we need13 to make some kind of changes. 17 At the time that we started18 this work, we had people coming to us19 that been home for 20, 25 years, and the20 first thing they said was, I didn't know21 you can have a pardon. I didn't know you22 can clean your record up. And what did23 that say to us? That says to me that the24 Probation Department never told their25 150 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 3 Also go for people that's on4 parole. Parole officers never tells5 them. 11 Now, our organization assists12 people with cleaning up their records13 through the pardon process and14 expungement. We are the only group in15 the State of Pennsylvania that is16 providing that service outside the legal17 community. No one else do this. 19 You got 300,000 formerly20 convicted people living in this city,21 with 200,000 no longer on probation and22 parole and being treated like they just23 got sentenced, that been home for 20, 25,24 30 years. But now they are facing a new25 151 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 1100881 reality. 5 You know, this is the reason6 why -- one of the things that we would7 like to try to get the Council to do is8 begin to look at people, formerly9 convicted people, and let's say two10 categories. Three years or less. If a11 person got three years or less time, they12 should have had either went into some13 type of reentry program, some kind of14 training program. Before they are ready15 to work, they should have went to some16 type of program and have a program send a17 referral letter saying this person is18 ready to work, because a lot of times19 employers don't know and a lot of times20 these developers, the job developers,21 they're most so concerned about numbers,22 sending folks, sending folks, but we feel23 that what they should do is, they should24 certify that person. If that person went25 152 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 6 Now, the other group of folks7 that we talk about is the ones that been8 home three years or more. These folks9 here doesn't necessarily need a referral,10 okay, simply because of the fact that11 they been home three years or more. And12 all the surveys and studies that have13 been done says that after a person been14 home three years, his likelihood to15 recommit a crime is just like a person16 that never committed a crime. And I will17 get you that report. I forgot to bring18 it. It called Redemption. 25 153 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 1100881 And so, you know, what we're2 saying is that we should begin to look at3 things like this and start putting things4 in order so that folks can get back to5 work, so this way, we can address this6 issue of long-term poverty within our7 city. You know, we got one-fifth of our8 population is poverty. 9 One-fifth of the population is formerly10 convicted people, too. 12

Thank13 you.14

Thank you.15

Thank you16 for your testimony.17 Charles Thomas, Letitia Mack18 and Jennie Miller.19 (Witnesses approached witness20 table.)21

Good afternoon,22 and thank you for having me here. I'm23 Charles Thomas. I'm from Camden, New24 Jersey.25 154 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 1100881

Thank you2 for coming to Philly today. Thank you.3

6 At the age of 19 years old, I7 was incarcerated. 9 I was released in 2001. I was10 transferred from the prison system to a11 community release program, which we now12 call a reentry program. I was sent from13 New Jersey state prison to the Garrett14 House, which was for violent offenders at15 that time. 19 The Garrett House is situated20 directly across the street from Rutgers21 University and adjacent to Camden County22 College. When I got there, I was full of23 aspirations. I wanted to go to Rutgers24 University. And with a GED, I thought25 155 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 1100881 that it would not qualify me to go into2 that university, but I was encouraged to3 try anyway. 5 The staff at the Garrett House6 at that time provided so much7 encouragement to the men that were sent8 there. 12 I went on three days after my13 graduation and applied for graduate14 school, and one year after that, I15 graduated in 2004 with a Master's Degree16 in social work. My interest was working17 with juveniles. I wanted to work with18 adolescent boys, because when I was very19 young, I was influenced by the streets20 and I ended up joining gangs and sticking21 people up. I ended up in prison, of22 course. 25 156 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 1100881 Thinking that my education2 would qualify me for those type jobs, I3 was just deluding myself. There's so4 many regulations in place. No matter how5 much a person do to try and better him or6 herself, if you have that criminal7 record, you're still going to be held8 accountable, even though my offense9 happened in 1974. 12 And after being denied those13 opportunities, I was offered a job with14 the same agency that I went to as an15 inmate, and I now work for Volunteers of16 America. The halfway house that I was17 sent to I now supervise. I have 84 men18 in one house and 48 women in the other19 house. The same services that benefited20 me are the services that I now provide21 for other men and women going through and22 facing some of the very same challenges23 that I faced. Without going through a24 halfway house or a reentry program, I25 157 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 2 Most men and women that I work3 with, all they want is an opportunity,4 and once given the opportunity, they step5 up to the plate. 35 an hour as waitresses, and7 the things that they do with the money8 that they make would amaze you. Savings9 accounts skyrocket. As waitresses, they10 rely on tips. They have to have bank11 accounts. They pay child support. 18 A lot of men and women come to19 our programs with skills. I don't20 believe anyone getting out of prison come21 to us for us to fix them. No one was22 born in prison. 23 Building upon the strengths that people24 bring into our programs I believe is25 158 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 2 We have men that come in who3 are absolutely excellent at remodeling4 houses. We have men with plumbing5 certification. And when they come to us,6 they think, well, we need to go out and7 find a job. Well, while you're under the8 umbrella of the Department of9 Corrections, of course, you have to live10 by their rules and regulations. 20 Some of the things you talked21 about already was the driver's license22 issue. A lot of times people that get23 convicted, loss of license, loss of24 driving privileges become one of those25 159 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 1100881 collateral sanctions that the courts2 impose. And if you have child support3 arrears, you will lose your driving4 privileges as well. So they attach those5 things, not understanding the impact that6 it have on looking for work. If you live7 in a rural area, buses and public8 transportation is sparse. 10 You can't legitimately job search if you11 can't drive. 22 Also, when we talk about23 banning the box, my first job search that24 I went on, it was absolutely25 160 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 1100881 discouraging.

In fact, that I honestly2 thought I had the job until I handed in3 my application and I checked the box,4 yes, I have been convicted. As soon as5 he read the first page and saw the box,6 he told me to leave. We don't hire7 ex-offenders. And the program that I8 went into, we absolutely had to find a9 job within 30 days, and if you don't find10 a job within 30 days, you was placed on a11 15-day contract, which means they12 extended your job search for 15 days,13 because the Department of Corrections at14 that time, which was ten years ago,15 thought that if you didn't find a job in16 a prescribed timeframe, you really wasn't17 looking for one. And so on my 27th day,18 I did find a job. I found a job at a19 warehouse cleaning toilets. 50 a day. And I made $824 an hour cleaning toilets, and I cleaned25 161 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 1100881 those toilets, to quote or paraphrase2 Dr. King, like Rembrandt painted3 pictures. And I got promoted, of course,4 and was able to purchase my first house,5 moved on after I graduated. I got6 offered the opportunity at Volunteers of7 America, where I currently work as the8 Treatment Director of both of those9 facilities. And it just goes to show10 what a person can do with the proper11 motivation, putting the proper case12 management in place, having those13 employment specialists that's going to be14 there to walk people through. Because if15 you've been in prison ten years, 1516 years, five years, there's a need, and17 that need is job readiness skills, being18 able to sell yourself, being able to go19 on an interview and conduct yourself in20 the proper way. All of that stuff helps21 you get into the door. 24 So when we talk about banning25 162 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 7 What happens to the other 90 percent of8 the men and women who never make it to a9 reentry program? 13 The number of people that make14 it to reentry programs is so small, but15 those people that are affected by the box16 is everybody with a conviction. Any17 person in the State of New Jersey or18 Pennsylvania that has a conviction, the19 box will impact your opportunity. So20 banning that box is critical. 22 Anything that I can do or Volunteers of23 America across the bridge can do to24 assist you with your work, I'm here to do25 163 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 3

Thank4 you. Thank you for your testimony.5 Ms. Mack.6

Good afternoon,7 everyone. My name is Letitia Mack. I am8 a convicted felon, as well as the founder9 of Project 4Ever Striving, which is a10 non-profit organization that helps11 ex-offenders with treatment, employment,12 transportation and housing.13 Being characterized as formerly14 convicted people, we are faced with15 barriers that are used as a detriment for16 utilizing our full potential. The17 judgment that is placed behind the18 negative connection is far greater than19 the recognition for our qualifications20 and capabilities.21 Prior to becoming a convicted22 felon, I worked for 22 years. I worked23 at a law firm where I developed a24 collection department and managed that25 164 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 1100881 department. I also worked for Drexel2 University where I was a front-desk team3 leader. After becoming a convicted4 felon, as I began to apply for jobs, they5 were not suited for my qualifications or6 my experiences. Every single time I had7 to fill out an application and check off8 that box "have you ever been convicted of9 a crime," my stomach would swirl. So, of10 course, I do agree with you, Councilman11 Jones, Councilwoman Miller, as you said12 earlier, there's nothing wrong with13 entrepreneurship, because when I went14 down to Municipal Service Building and15 completed that application for a business16 license, they never asked that question,17 and I felt free.18 I have other experiences just19 being a director of an ex-offenders20 program. I had one gentleman come in.21 He had worked for 25 years at a steel22 company. The company closed. When the23 company closed, this gentleman became24 very depressed. He's about 67 now. He25 165 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 1100881 became very depressed. He lost his2 family. He lost his house, and he began3 to abuse drugs.4 After cleaning up, he got a5 job. The job wasn't paying the same6 amount that he was used to making. Of7 course, he had to go to some treatment.8 He got hurt on the job and paralyzed the9 left side of his body. He's now10 collecting disability. Went to help him11 to apply for housing through PHA, and12 just because he has a drug conviction, he13 was turned away.14 There are so many barriers that15 are associated with being a convicted16 felon. But we can push through them.17 You know, the places that I take the18 gentleman to get hired, they do start19 them off at $10 to $11. They're on the20 outskirts of Philadelphia. So we have to21 provide them with transportation to and22 from work. And that has been working.23 I've had some people -- I've witnessed24 them change their lives. So if you just25 166 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 1100881 put forth the effort, stay focused and do2 what you have to do, it can work for you.3 In Philadelphia, there are not4 many places that will hire convicted5 felons. We do have to put in the extra6 effort to go find these jobs, and they're7 only on the outskirts of Philadelphia.8 That's all I have. Do you have9 any questions for me?10 COUNCILWOMAN MILLER:11 Councilman Jones.12

I'm going to13 be real brief, because we -- and the14 Chairwoman has been very gracious to have15 so many people testify, so I won't abuse16 that.17 But two things. One, I applaud18 you and what you're doing to train people19 to get ready for jobs, because I think20 that's very important.21 Volunteers of America, I had an22 opportunity as a freshman with Bill Green23 and Councilwoman Sanchez to come over and24 tour. I don't know if you remember that,25 167 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 1100881 but it was excellent, and the question2 becomes, how do we look at what you do3 and are you referred by the Office of4 Reentry? Do people from the reentry5 program, are they referred to your6 program?7

In most cases, they8 are. And I don't want to speak negative9 about another program, but in most cases,10 when I get people that come from11 different programs, it's because they12 could not find employment and they come13 and they're in need. They need14 employment. They need to pay their15 bills. They need to feed their children.16 So most of the referrals come from word17 of mouth, outreach, substance abuse, men18 who are on welfare. If you're a19 convicted felon and you don't have a drug20 problem and you have fines, you are not21 able to get on welfare. So most programs22 will turn you away, depending on your23 court situation.24

To all of25 168 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 1100881 you who have testified today, I'd say2 this: This is one hearing. It is not3 the end. It is the beginning, thanks to4 the Chairwoman. We need to spend some5 time, quality time, in a room a couple of6 days and figure out department by7 department, federal level, city level,8 state level, what an action plan is for9 us to do.10 I can speak for the members of11 this Committee, we're interested and12 that's why many of us stayed here all13 day, but what we don't have is the14 answers that you have, because you've15 lived it. So we need to exchange16 information like we're beginning to do17 today, but then we need to roll up our18 sleeves and be solutionaries to figure19 out long-term solutions.20 I heard so much, Mr. Blackburn,21 and I always am amazed when I listen to22 folk that I don't -- I didn't just meet23 at this hearing. They actually come down24 to my office every now and then and stop25 169 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 1100881 in. But I need to challenge you guys to2 put us in a room, legislators from all3 levels, and let's work on this problem4 together, because I think it was said,5 and I agree, it is the civil rights issue6 for many Americans in the inner city.7 And, you know, it's nice to have voting8 rights. It's nice to have employment9 rights. It's nice to have housing10 rights, but if we don't deal with this11 issue, we are creating a generation of12 untouchable class discriminated-against13 people that will be damned in a way that14 to repeat mistakes over and over again,15 and we have to do something about it.16 There is no such thing as throw-away17 people.18

Right.19 And I think -- I know that this Committee20 has a commitment, and, you know, there's21 just so many questions and answers. I22 think one of the things that we'll do is23 look at the DVD, because this is being24 recorded, and the transcripts and look25 170 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 1100881 at -- pull out the suggestions that folks2 made, and that's one place we can start3 to do follow-up.4 So this can't be the end. I5 mean, this is not the type of hearing you6 can just have once and just keep moving.7 This is a big, big problem here, and8 we're faced here in Philadelphia and many9 cities across the country.10 So I want to thank you for your11 testimony. I have had the fortune to12 meet with many of the groups, so that's13 why -- and we've met for an hour, hour14 and a half or more and just getting lots15 of information, getting a lot of16 questions answered. So I want to thank17 you for coming in, and I am sending you18 an e-mail a little later.19

Okay.20

Thank21 you.22

Thank you.23

We have24 four people left, and that is Clarence25 171 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 1100881 Harris, Andre Bolling, William Brown and2 Kevin Hutch, and I believe that's it.3 (Witnesses approached witness4 table.)5

These are the last6 four.7

Is there8 anybody else in the room to testify?9 (No response.)10

So it's11 just these four. Great.12 I just need to just say just13 for the record, this is not the first14 hearing that we've had on this whole15 issue. We've been working on this for a16 long time. We've had many meetings. We17 have this little committee going on. So18 this is just one of the hearings. We19 just need to keep moving and keep doing20 whatever it is we need to do to help in21 this whole area.22 So we're going to start with23 Clarence Harris, Andrew Bolling, William24 Brown and Kevin Hutch. That's the order.25 172 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 1100881 Make sure the mike is up close enough for2 you to speak in, identify yourself for3 the record and proceed with your4 testimony.5

Thank you, Madam6 Councilwoman. My name is Clarence7 Harris. I have a brief statement. 9 I would like to thank first10 Philadelphia City Council and directly11 you, Madam Councilwoman Miller, for12 allowing me to come here and speak today13 concerning Bill 100543 sponsored by14 Councilwoman Miller. My name is Clarence15 Harris. I'm a registered voter from the16 51st Ward. 20 I sit here before you today as21 a citizen, community member and father22 who is offering his support to the ban23 the box bill. In order make clear why I24 support this measure, I must tell you a25 173 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 3 I'm 46 years old. I have lived4 in Philadelphia most of my life. 88. I have7 Bachelor's degrees in anthropology,8 history and political science. I was9 awarded the honor of Distinguished10 Delegate at the Harvard Model United11 Nations debates in 1999. I studied under12 Carlo Gasperino Minote (ph), former chef13 for the Belgian royal family. I have14 become a chef of a small but growing15 reputation in Philadelphia, outside of16 Philadelphia and different parts of the17 country. 22 In 2001 -- I was married. I23 have two children. In 2001, my marriage24 hit a rough spot and there was a25 174 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 1100881 separation. During that separation, the2 family finances were sloppily managed and3 we began to fall behind in payments for4 mortgage, utilities, cars, credit cards5 and what-have-you. As often happens, I6 had to rob from Paul to pay Peter and7 began to juggle expenses. 11 candidacy at Harvard's Kennedy School of12 Politics, University of Chicago or the13 University of Pennsylvania. 17 Checks began to bounce. I18 began to try and find different ways and19 worked harder and harder to manage two20 different households then. And, like I21 said, checks began to bounce. Long story22 short is, there were several suits filed23 and ultimately criminal complaints as24 well. Eventually I pled guilty to two25 175 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 3 Ever since, I have experienced the4 difficulties -- first I have to mention5 too that as a result of that plea, I was6 sentenced to six to 24 months in state7 prison for misdemeanor bad checks. I8 spent 18 months -- six to 24 months in9 state prison. My first cellie murdered10 his child, stabbed her 41 times. 17 Ever since, I've experienced18 the difficulties of having just these19 minor infractions associated with my20 name. 23 Since May of 2010, I have been24 on a constant job search and had it25 176 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 1100881 explained to me on many occasions that2 because of the check on the box that asks3 if I had been convicted, I stand a lesser4 chance of securing employment in keeping5 with my experience and training. 7 Now, I must say that over the8 past few years, I found that I've had to9 accept lesser positions and become very10 willing to prove myself, and there have11 always been promotions associated with12 it. 17 I've also been a businessowner,18 and I didn't have that opportunity19 provided for me -- provided to me because20 I said let me settle for less. 22 I believe that this whole23 thing, this check the box bit, it robs an24 individual of the opportunity to speak25 177 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 1100881 for his or herself at an interview where2 a fair judgment can be reached. 9 And I used to hear all the time the one10 thing the system didn't need was another11 angry black man. Well, I wasn't raised12 to be that, and I found myself being13 that. 18 I don't belong to any great19 organization other than NCCF. 25 178 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 1100881

Thank2 you.3

Good evening,4 Councilwoman. I don't have anything5 written. I just wanted give my testimony6 based on the things that I've been7 through. I'm an ex-offender. I was --8 COURT STENOGRAPHER: Can I have9 your name?10

My name is Andre11 Bolling. I apologize.12 Basically, I was convicted13 about seven years ago, and there's three14 different types of boxes that you can15 check on the application, have you ever16 been convicted, have you ever been17 arrested, and subsequently have you been18 arrested in the past seven years.19 However, it's just like spam e-mail.20 When you see someone who checks, yes,21 I've been convicted or arrested or in the22 past seven years have been in jail, they23 basically delete it from their inbox, and24 it kind of seems discriminatory.25 179 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 1100881 However, I feel as though most of these2 companies in the future are going to have3 you apply for future employment through4 the Internet, and that's going to5 prohibit the ordinance in Philadelphia,6 because the headquarters is going to be7 in another state. However, I appreciate8 the proactive incentive that you have9 taken, and I just wanted to say thank you10 to you and I've been following the issue,11 and I hope it passes.12 That's all I have to say.13 Thank you.14

Thank15 you. We'll have to check on that out of16 state, because I believe the human17 resource and the hiring would take place18 here, not out of state. I know that one19 company I met with, they do their20 background checks the same across the21 country. So they send it to their main22 headquarters, but they actually do the23 hiring here.24 So that's something we'll25 180 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 1100881 probably check on. Thank you.2 Okay. William Brown.3

Yes. How you4 doing?5

Hi.6

11 I was young. I was 19 years12 old and basically I was shot and I was13 robbed. Okay? 16 When I was shot and robbed, I17 stated that I didn't want that to happen18 to me again. Okay? I started carrying a19 gun for protection. In carrying a gun20 for protection, I wound up going to a21 movie theatre, was at Cheltenham Mall and22 I was not thinking when I got in line23 that I still had that gun on me. They24 was checking at the mall for anything as25 181 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 1100881 you go into the movie theatre. Not2 unless I got out of line once I realized3 that I had it on me and they was4 checking. I got caught, got arrested,5 make a long story short. 7 I went to jail. I did five and8 a half years in federal prison. In the9 federal prison, I educated myself while I10 was there. I got my GED. I studied the11 stock market and other things. 14 I wish Councilman Jones was15 here, because he was stating as far as16 going into business for yourself,17 creating a job for yourself. You can do18 that, but in a lot of situations, some19 people may not be looking forward to20 doing so. They might want to take their21 life in a different direction as far as22 working for an employer. And basically23 that's what I wanted to do. I wanted to24 go into business but actually for an25 182 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 2 I went to school to CHI, and3 they had a business school there. I4 wanted to attend, but the lady there told5 me that being as though I have a criminal6 background, I may not want to go in that7 direction, because it's very hard to find8 a job going in that direction. 12 So I went for electrician, and she says13 more that you may get a job doing14 electrical having a background than it15 would for you going into business. 17 I was one person who always was18 determined to succeed. 25 183 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 1100881 No. I started off at the bottom. I2 flipped burgers. 8 I did that for two years, became a9 manager at Home Video. I became a store10 director. And all of this was because of11 the fact that I was checking no on an12 application to get hired at the jobs. If13 I didn't -- I was home for almost a year14 trying to look for employment and wasn't15 getting employment because of the fact16 that I was being honest and checking yes17 on the box. 19 With that, I want to say this:20 As far as removing it from an21 application, if you took ten people who22 committed a felon and -- I've been on23 both sides. I also hired people. I have24 a chance to do hiring at jobs, and I had25 184 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 1100881 to look at people who committed a felon,2 who put yes on the application. 6 If you took ten people who7 committed a felon and for the employer to8 remove -- for the question to be there so9 you can get to know the person to find10 out who they are so you wouldn't hire11 them on a job and potentially doing12 something to harm people that has come13 into your business for service, you can14 take nine of those people who succeeded,15 worked there for a year with nothing16 happening. You take one who do do17 something. An employer say, Okay, well,18 if this box wasn't removed off the19 application, the person that committed20 this crime that we hired, more than21 likely we probably wouldn't have hired22 that person and this wouldn't have23 happened. Well, is it fair to the people24 who fill out an application and committed25 185 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 1100881 an offense, the nine people who are2 successful? It will take them out of3 getting a job and being successful4 because of the fact that that box is5 there.

And basically, you know, that was6 my point in making, that the box should7 be removed off an application, because,8 again, the man that was here, when he was9 speaking about after you get out of10 prison, the three years that you should11 do and it should be removed after you are12 out of prison and been successful and not13 committing another crime after those14 three years, that you should be able to15 check no that you never committed a16 felon. What about the time the five and17 a half years that I did in the federal18 correctional institution? Because that's19 what it's supposed to be. What about20 those five years that I've done and21 corrected myself and came out into22 society to try to get a job, but then I23 will have to go to these programs and24 prove myself again that I'm able to work25 186 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 1100881 and be successful in the community, you2 know. 8

Well, you9 know, we agree with you and that's why10 we're doing the legislation.11 You're working now?12

No, I'm not working13 now. I'm actually in the same program14 that this gentleman is in and the15 gentleman before me was in, which is16 Career for Fathers. I'm actually in that17 program. I'm actually in that program18 now.19

Okay.20 Well, I wish you success.21 Okay. Our last person to22 testify, Kevin Hutch.23

Yes. Hi,24 Councilwoman Miller. Pleasure to see you25 187 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 1100881 again. 11 Give you basic background. I'm12 a William Penn graduate, '97, lived in13 Philadelphia most of my life. I14 originally went college in Lincoln15 University, came back. In 2002, I pled16 guilty to a list of misdemeanors, first17 and only time I've been in trouble with18 the law. Since then was an ongoing19 struggle finding employment. 22 It got to a point where I felt like more23 education was needed. I always was a24 person where my mentality was I was a25 188 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 1100881 bull in a China shop, just show me what2 dishes to break. 6 So I went to Thompson7 Institute, graduated with a pretty high8 GPA. Unlike the gentleman before me9 stated the people at his school told him10 you shouldn't apply, go out for this type11 of schooling because it wouldn't be12 beneficial towards you, Thompson13 Institute basically sold me a car. Oh,14 no, it won't affect you. Your criminal15 background won't affect you. And I went16 and graduated, and I have never in many17 applications I do in every major hospital18 and medical facility in Philadelphia has19 never been in a position to have an20 interview nor a phone call back. 25 189 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 1100881 But at the time, I used that --2 well, partially education and my3 experiences already working with retail4 chains, in that nature, and entertainment5 jobs. I was assistant manager at Famous6 Footwear in Lansdale and Philadelphia,7 went from there due to upward mobility I8 felt, I started working Comcast as a9 customer service agent. 12 A few months later I started working at13 Yellow Book USA as a contract negotiation14 specialist. 21 Having nervous breakdowns at22 work led me being part of the layoffs23 they had there at Yellow Book USA, and24 that was April 2009. Since then, I was25 190 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 1100881 looking for a gainful employment and2 going through the struggles of having to3 check that box off. At first it didn't4 affect me, because, you know, I've5 obtained employment before, but knowing6 the economy the way it was, it's going to7 be rougher. You got people who have very8 vast educations, you know, and they're9 out of work. 13 I finally obtained some level14 of gainful employment when I was accepted15 to work at GameStop. This story in16 itself was subject of a cover story for17 the December 13th, 2010 Daily News. I18 was in this program about a month, month19 and a half, and then October, I sat down20 with one of the district managers. And I21 originally told them all my misdemeanor22 charges in regards to 2002. They told me23 that they found something else on my24 criminal background that I did not25 191 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 1100881 disclose to them, and did I know what it2 was, and I told them no. They asked me3 if it was something on there, would you4 be surprised. I told them I'd be5 shocked. 8 They didn't even tell me. 10 At the same time, I was going11 out for overnight customer service12 manager for Wal-Mart in Warminster,13 Pennsylvania. Since being out of work14 for so long, I was going to work both15 jobs just to pay back bills and things of16 that nature. They were more informative17 into what happened. I received a letter18 from Wal-Mart stating that I had a felony19 conviction for cocaine possession in '9620 in Gloucester County, Virginia. Never21 been there. 23 So after I turned over a lot of24 stones, I finally got it removed, sent my25 192 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 1100881 fingerprints down to Virginia State2 Police, and they removed it. " And let's20 just be frank. That box is a21 discriminatory tool used by companies to22 not hire ex-offenders. It is outright a23 discriminatory tool. But there are more24 tools, as in my case, more tools that are25 193 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES.

2 To me, this is a start, but3 more discussions have to be put in play4 so that the future generations don't have5 to go through the same things. One main6 discriminatory tools is the background7 check, because the way I feel about it,8 if a background -- and this is just not9 my words. This is words of Pennsylvania10 state law. This document I received from11 Community Legal Services, and it states12 Pennsylvania law states felony and13 misdemeanor convictions may be considered14 by an employer only to the extent which15 they relate to the applicant's16 suitability for employment in the17 position for which he has applied. 23 Now, with that said, there are24 too many loopholes, way too many25 194 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 1100881 loopholes so that a company does not have2 to do that. They could tell them, Oh,3 well, we found somebody with a little4 more experience. Oh, well, you don't5 have enough experience, and that person6 has vast experience. 10 Also, if you really think about11 it, companies itself, their human12 resource departments are their13 departments. There's no entity outside14 of their departments making sure that15 they are holding up to this law that16 Pennsylvania has installed. Look at the17 alternatives that we have currently. You18 don't hire ex-offenders. 21 You have the Mayor and the22 Commissioner of Police complaining about23 repeat offenders, but are not doing24 enough to ensure that they have a level25 195 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. What are the solutions? Build more prisons. To me, that's4 likening to, you have a ditch and your5 purpose is to fill that ditch up so no6 one can fall in it, but your solution is7 let's just dig a bigger ditch. That does8 not solve a problem. 10 I mean, you have like the RISE11 corporation. I went to RISE. I tried to12 apply for RISE. One of the provisions,13 what they just told you, one of their14 rules in getting into RISE was, your15 crime has to be at the oldest seven16 years, and like I told a representative17 at RISE, Well, ma'am, companies care less18 how many years a crime has been19 committed. 21 So you have -- it's a great22 percentage they have in regards to how23 many people that come through that24 program become repeat offenders, only25 196 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 1100881 three percent, but when you're helping2 only a small window of Pennsylvania's3 people with criminal convictions, it's4 not a great batting average. That's like5 if, say, for instance, Jayson Werth had6 only 100 at bats one year, but he had a7 400 batting average versus someone who8 had 500 at bats and a 280 batting9 average. 13 To me, the positives, though,14 of having this law is that, yes, a person15 can get in the door and sell themselves16 and tell them, yes, I committed this17 crime certain years ago, but this is what18 I've done since then. I let my walk19 speak for itself. 21 There has to be some type of22 laws put into place in which individuals23 themselves cannot be discriminated24 against years down the road. They paid25 197 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 3 So for me, I'm in great support4 of this law, but, like I said, there has5 to be much more be done, because this6 society or this city itself -- the people7 use that term, a chain is as strong as8 its weakest link. To me, a society is as9 strong as its most needful people, and of10 anything, these individuals that are here11 today and other people around the City,12 the hundreds of thousands of individuals13 that have gone through things as similar14 as I have, are the City's most needful15 people. 22

Well,23 that's one of the reasons why we're doing24 this ban the box. We know it's25 198 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 1100881 discriminatory.2 Before I go any further,3 though, I want to make note that4 Councilwoman Blackwell is now in5 attendance at this hearing.6 I also want to announce that we7 did get our date for ban the box. It's8 March 16th at 10:00 a.m. here in this9 Council Chambers.10

March the 16th?11

March the12 16th. That's a Wednesday, at 10:00 a.m.13 You know, you're going to get a14 formal notice, but since we were here15 when we got the approval on the date, I16 just wanted to announce it before the17 hearing ended.18 With that, we have no more -- I19 don't believe we have anybody else to20 testify, and I want to thank you for21 coming. Thank you for your testimony,22 and this Committee is recessed until the23 call of the Chair.24 Thank you.25 199 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 1100881 (Committee on Public Safety2 recessed at 5:35 p.m.)3 - - -4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 200 CERTIFICATE2 I HEREBY CERTIFY that the3 proceedings, evidence and objections are4 contained fully and accurately in the5 stenographic notes taken by me upon the6 foregoing matter on February 23, 2011, and7 that this is a true and correct transcript of8 same.9 --------------------14 MICHELE L. MURPHY15 RPR-Notary Public16 (The foregoing certification of this20 transcript does not apply to any reproduction21 of the same by any means, unless under the22 direct control and/or supervision of the23 certifying reporter.)24