How you25 102 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 1100881 doing?2
-- Jones,3 Councilwoman Donna Reed and Attorney4 William.5 I am just basically here today6 as a person that has experienced being7 with someone that was incarcerated. And8 I also worked in the corporate America9 world wherein which I worked in human10 resources of the Department of Public11 Health. So I know of the hard-to-find12 positions and jobs that are available,13 but it's hard to find people that would14 like to fill those jobs.15 For example, in point would be16 a vector control worker. They usually17 are involved with setting traps for rats18 and things of that nature, and that's a19 hard position to fill for people that are20 not used to doing those type of things21 and dealing with those type of creatures.22 However, we have people in prison that23 are used to the mice and the rats that24 they see all the time, the things that we25 103 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 1100881 don't normally want to deal with. That's2 a job wherein which they could also fill.3 However, I would like to just4 briefly touch on the equal employment5 opportunity. Title VII of the Civil6 Rights Act of 1964 was the first federal7 law designed to protect most U.S.8 employees from employment discrimination.9 It was further enhanced when President10 Lyndon B. Johnson signed an order in 196511 to prohibit federal contractors and/or12 employers from discriminating against13 employees on the basis of race, sex,14 creed, religion, color and national15 origin. However, more recently, state16 statutes have listed other traits as17 protected classes, including age18 discrimination, sexual orientation,19 Americans with Disability Act of 1990 and20 Vietnam Era Veterans Readjustment Act,21 but, most importantly, the Genetic22 Information Non-Discriminating Act of23 2008. That was only three years ago, and24 basically that forbids discrimination on25 104 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 1100881 the basis of family history and genetic2 information.3 I believe that there should be4 an act that forbids discrimination on the5 basis of criminal history, because it's6 the criminal history that they are basing7 why or why not they should give a job to8 someone. So, therefore, if this ban the9 box would actually happen and be set in10 place, therefore, people that have11 records will not be discriminated upon.12 Thank you very much.13 (Applause.)14
Thank15 you. Thank you for coming in. Thank you16 guys.17 Bill DiMascio, Pennsylvania18 Prison Society.19
There23 goes your audience.24 MR. DiMASCIO: Good afternoon.25 105 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 1100881
Good2 afternoon.3 MR. DiMASCIO: I want to first4 say thank you, Councilwoman Miller,5 Councilman Jones.6 This issue of reentry is7 probably one of the most important and8 challenging of our time. And I feel like9 I've just been co-opted, because I wanted10 to say that the Prison Society has been11 in business for over 200 years and we12 started helping formerly incarcerated men13 and women to find a way to successfully14 reintegrate themselves after those15 periods of incarceration from way back16 when. So I brought my colleague, Art17 Whittaker, who is our employment18 specialist. He's more familiar with19 those old days than I am.20
21 MR. DiMASCIO: But it's time22 for a change, and I think that if23 anything comes from this hearing, it's24 going to be recognition that we25 106 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 4 The gentleman before me put it5 very clearly. We have a Department of6 Corrections, which is not really7 concerned about correcting much of8 anything. We are warehousing people. So9 after the waste of years of people's10 lives, we expect them to come out and fit11 in to society and be productive, without12 job skills, without the kind of training13 that they need. That has to stop. 18 The punishment is the loss of19 personal freedom and liberty, time in20 confinement. That's punishment. 25 107 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 8 An overall approach to better9 enable former offenders to rejoin the10 workplace and provide for their families11 by breaking down barriers will positively12 impact all of us. Not just them, but all13 of us in society. 21 In addition, we should put in place a22 system to review employer decisions that23 gives the job applicant recourse if an24 error or problem is found. We also need25 108 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 4 Finding meaningful employment5 is a critical first step in the reentry6 plan of all former prisoners. It is a7 difficult quest. Many ex-offenders lack8 up-to-date job skills, some have no prior9 work experience, and still others have10 low educational attainment levels. 12 We should have educational programs going13 on inside the prisons. 17 There are attitudes that we18 have been furthering for decades now to19 demonize people who get themselves in20 trouble. We have got to get away from21 that. 24 Approximately 16,000 getting released in25 109 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 1100881 Pennsylvania. 3 South Africa opened up to4 Nelson Mandela when he was released. He5 went on to become president of his6 country. The same thing happened with7 other international figures, Lech Walesa8 in Poland, Vaclav Havel in9 Czechoslovakia. 15 We recommend that a number of16 steps that would improve employment17 opportunities for former offenders might18 include some of these:19 We need visible support by the20 City through hiring practice. I think21 one of the reasons I'm so delighted to be22 here today is that this hearing is23 another sign of your leadership, which is24 essential. Without this, if you're not25 110 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 1100881 going to lead us and this community,2 we're never going to get on top of this3 problem. 8 And, Councilman, I know you've9 raised this issue of expungement several10 times, and I would just say to you, I11 serve on the Commission on Wrongful12 Convictions in the state government, and13 we have been, for the last four years,14 wrestling with this issue of wrongful15 convictions, what happens to innocent16 people who are wrongly convicted, and17 then it turns out that they're totally18 innocent. We are refusing to expunge19 their records. There is a real hassle20 going on in Harrisburg today, because21 their records don't get automatically22 expunged. Now, why would that be? This23 is all part and parcel, I believe, of24 this rush to demean someone else, and25 111 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 13
14 So it's my job to assist those15 former offenders and those with criminal16 records try to find sustainable17 employment opportunities in and around18 the Philadelphia area. I work every day19 with employers. I work every day with20 former offenders who come through our21 reentry programs. 25 112 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 1100881 Most of the companies, I can2 honestly say, that hire large numbers of3 former offenders are low-paying jobs,4 difficult work, high turnover, no5 benefits and no opportunity, real6 opportunity, for advancement. 10 Many that I speak to on a daily11 basis -- and I've heard it ever since12 I've started, and I've gotten to know13 these offenders, former offenders, over14 the years, and they honestly express to15 me that if they can't find a decent job,16 that they are really going to turn back17 to crime. They're going to start dealing18 drugs again or they're going to be19 involved in some kind of theft or20 robbery. They tell me this, and they're21 honest about it. And it's a large22 percentage of people that think that way,23 because they are not afforded the24 opportunities with some of these25 113 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 1100881 companies that -- especially these large2 companies out there that I try every day,3 banging my head against the wall, trying4 to go through the layers of management to5 find the person who ultimately makes the6 hiring decision. So I spend a lot of my7 time going after those small, independent8 type of employers that can make a9 decision. 13 I can honestly say to an14 employer that I've never, in all the15 individuals that I've worked with and16 have helped find jobs, I have never had17 an instance of violence on the job or an18 incident of theft even on the job. 22 I mean, fortunately, for the23 men and women that I work with, they have24 someone like me as an advocate for them25 114 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 1100881 and can go to these employers and open up2 these dialogues. I mean, recently I had3 the very good fortune of sitting down4 with a major employer of Philadelphia5 that employs some 1,800 people just in6 the Northeast, not to mention across the7 country. They would never hire a person8 with a former offense, never, regardless9 of what it was, felony, misdemeanor, they10 wouldn't have hired someone. But after11 spending time with their Director of12 Human Resources at their facility and13 presenting information to them,14 statistics that I've compiled or given15 them an idea of who the men and women, I16 had to write up several times so they can17 bring to the higher-ups and the higher18 level corporate offices, take to their19 loss prevention people and explain to20 them who these people are and what kind21 of success I've had, the type of22 individual I've had, and fortunately now23 they are opening this up. They've24 approved it on a limited basis, because25 115 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 3 Their offices are in the4 communities where there is a large5 percentage of former offenders in the6 community. 9 I can't blame a lot of10 employers for making decisions just based11 on an application, and with the thousands12 they get a day for every job opening and13 see a felony, hey, they're going to toss14 that aside. But I can't blame them, only15 because they don't really know who --16 they haven't worked with a former17 offender before. They haven't worked18 with people. 21 I really believe that there has22 to be more investment in programs like23 ours where we can go out and educate the24 public and educate employers on the25 116 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 1100881 benefits. I believe the ban the box2 legislation is extremely important,3 because that's going to give men and4 women the opportunity to interview,5 address their skills, and allow these6 hiring managers to see who they are as7 people first before they get into their8 criminal background. 15 I wanted to keep it brief.
I16 know I'm kind of going on here, but I17 really believe our reentry programs that18 we have here at the Prison Society have19 had a real impact on improving the20 direction, encouraging behavioral change,21 the confidence in guys with former22 offenses getting out of jail, to show23 them that they do have the skills and the24 abilities to go out there and give them25 117 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 2 And in the meantime, they can work with3 me and have those relationships with4 employers, and hopefully they get the5 better jobs with the better wages and the6 real opportunities, and that's going to7 really lessen the crime in our8 neighborhoods and the safety in our9 communities. 10 So thank you very much. 12
Thank13 you. Thank you for your testimony.14 I actually wanted to ask -- I15 think I wrote it down -- particular16 questions.17 How successful are you? What18 are your outcomes with helping people19 gain employment?20
Well, I mean,21 it's a good question. There's a number22 of different programs and there are a23 number of different programs that are24 divided into it. At one point we were25 118 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 1100881 doing primarily a program called Pride2 that was primarily drug and alcohol-based3 type of programs, and it was opened up,4 we're working with veterans as well. But5 we're well above -- I mean, as far as6 finding employment for people, we're well7 above 70 percent. Sometimes it's much8 higher than that, 80 percent finding9 employment. And once these individuals10 work with us, they know they can come11 back. As long as they stay employed, do12 what they're supposed to do, they can13 come back. I'll always work for them for14 those better jobs and finding those real15 opportunities for them in the future.16 MR. DiMASCIO: Councilwoman, we17 run several different reentry programs,18 as Art was alluding to. Some of them are19 targeted to specific groups, veterans,20 fathers, whatever, but we also run a21 program just for walk-ins. We have no22 time limit. Anybody who has ever been23 incarcerated and may have worked and then24 maybe got laid off, they can walk in and25 119 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 1100881 we'll try to provide assistance to2 anyone.3 So it's a little difficult4 sometimes to gauge just where your5 success rate is. On certain programs6 it's much higher than on others.7
Do you10 find certain industries are easier to11 work with than others?12
Yeah,13 definitely, and I think a lot of job14 developers and people that do what I do15 find that supermarkets, warehousing,16 assembly line, those type of industries.17 Supermarkets especially have been very18 good, I think, as a whole with hiring19 former offenders. They really haven't --20 especially like Brown ShopRite, for21 instance, that really does want to hire22 within their community and who their23 customer base is, and they realize that24 former offenders are part of that base.25 120 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 1100881 So there are certain industries2 that will hire more, trash collection,3 you know, things like that, but they're4 generally those labor-type positions.5 People don't get the opportunity to go to6 work at Comcast and some of these big7 telecommunication agencies and some of8 these big corporations, which if they9 did, they can go in as an entry-level10 position and work their way up. And11 that's what I try to look for. That's12 what my goal is, to find more of those.13
In14 earlier testimony you talked about15 training for cable, I'll just say,16 installers. Not your testimony but17 someone else's. And I said to myself,18 where do they go to work, because we19 weren't sure whether the companies that I20 believe are doing cable would hire them.21
Well, that was22 something I didn't talk about, because23 that's something that is very frustrating24 to me. A lot of guys come out -- men and25 121 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 1100881 women that come out of prison have2 certificates with fiberoptic training,3 and there's nothing they can do with4 them. It really is wasting money5 training people in that direction. And I6 know when the gentleman was here from7 RISE -- and I see a lot of different8 programs for weatherization and green9 jobs, but there aren't those jobs out10 there too, and a lot of money, funding11 goes to those type of programs. They12 could be better served in other areas.13
Okay.14 Thank you.15 Councilman Jones.16 You know, I could actually ask17 like a million questions, because this18 topic is that type of topic, and it's19 just something that we just have to keep20 working on, whether we have hearings,21 whether we have little small task force22 meetings, et cetera. I just wonder why23 the state or anybody would -- I would24 think that they know the most likely25 122 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 1100881 places that people will get hired. So2 let's do training around that rather than3 people coming out with a certificate4 that's of no use.5 MR. DiMASCIO: Fifteen years6 ago we used to get a lot of people hired7 in the hospitality area, chambermaids,8 people worked in hotels, of course,9 people who worked in nursing homes, and,10 of course, gradually those jobs became11 prohibited for those folks. They're just12 taking them away.13
I talked the14 other day with the union representative15 for AFSCME and the hospital workers. He16 told me, Art, don't even bother having17 people apply in a hospital, because none18 of the hospitals I deal with will hire a19 felon, even for janitorial work, and20 regardless of the crime being, you know,21 a minor drug conviction or anything with22 a felony, regardless of the crime, and23 that's too bad.24
That is25 123 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 1100881 too bad.2 Councilman Jones.3
Thank you,4 Madam Chair.5 A couple of things. One, if6 there is a gold standard industry in7 Philadelphia that hires ex-offenders, who8 is it?9
Again, I10 mentioned Brown ShopRite. I mean, and11 that's not -- but that's not the answer,12 you know, just the supermarket industry.13 I tell you, I'd like to see more people14 coming out of prison with sewing15 backgrounds, because believe it or not,16 there's opportunities out there for good17 sewing operators, machine operators.18
I think one23 of the things that I think gets lost in24 this is that there's an opportunity to25 124 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 1100881 create your own job, and that is to start2 your own business. In another life I ran3 the Philadelphia Commercial Development4 Corporation, PCDC, funded or contracted5 with a lot of the small businesses in the6 City of Philadelphia. We had an7 entrepreneurial training program where we8 embraced ex-offenders, and I want to tell9 you, what do the following industries10 have in common: a delivery business, a11 roofing business, a housing contracting12 business, exterminating company, catering13 business, a maintenance business, lawn14 care business, snow removal business.15 All of them can be started for less than16 $2,000. All of those businesses can be17 started for less than $2,000. I know18 because I've done it, and they've been19 successful, many of whom were20 ex-offenders.21 So I don't want us to not look22 at the idea of creating our own jobs, and23 in so doing, when you are an ex-offender24 and you are the CEO of your company,25 125 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 1100881 you're more inclined to understand, look2 into the plight of others who are in3 similar circumstances.4
So, I mean,6 I just -- I hear us talk about this in a7 way that kind of says, you know, if we8 don't find jobs, then I'm going to go9 back to the life I had. I have10 absolutely zero tolerance for that. That11 is not going to be the excuse. And I'm12 not from Mars. Some of my best13 friends -- when I say "best friends," I14 mean best friends. I didn't fall off a15 turnip truck and become a Councilman. I16 was from 54th and Berks Street gang. All17 right? Many of my alumni are away up18 state, and I often see them and talk to19 them. That's real rap.20 But what I'm saying to you is21 that we have a mutual responsibility,22 because they're going to come home and23 they're going to be my neighbor. My24 daughter has to marry someone. And25 126 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 1100881 there's no such thing in my mind as2 throw-away people. So we've got to get3 this thing right. But we have to take4 personal responsibility and we have to be5 realistic about some of our options too,6 because I get the college student that7 comes to my office and says, Councilman,8 I know you're doing things with community9 courts for ex-offenders. I know you're10 doing things to provide jobs by way of11 entrepreneurship for ex-offenders. What12 do I have to do? Hit someone over the13 head to get a job from you? And I can't14 answer them in that way now.15 We have to, in a dual track, be16 able to get ex-offenders not17 discriminated against, but we also have18 to provide general opportunities. And19 I'm saying whether you're the kid from20 college or kid from Graterford, starting21 your own business is a viable option, and22 we have to encourage that training and23 mindset within our community24 collectively, whether you're the offender25 127 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 1100881 or the ex-offender or not. We have to2 look at that as a real post-recession3 reality. And there's plenty of work to4 be done.5 I get sick of seeing trucks6 from Jersey coming into my neighborhood7 fixing things that guys from my community8 can fix. I have a similar problem -- I'm9 going to get mine in, because I listened.10 But I'm going to tell you that I have a11 high population of senior citizens, and12 for lack of a handyman to replace a $1213 wax ring in their toilet that sinks into14 the ceiling, that causes mold, that makes15 them homeless, that we have a need for16 not -- I don't need a carpenter to do17 that. I don't need a registered plumber.18 I need a handyman that I can send that is19 reputable to this person's house that's20 not going charge them an arm and a leg.21 So we have within our22 community -- Malik El-Shabazz said,23 Control the space you live in and to be24 able to control your own wealth. And if25 128 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 1100881 we start to look at it like that too, we2 can grow some businesses. I know people3 that are doing well that are ex-offenders4 that run their own businesses that hire5 other ex-offenders.6 So I'm saying to all of us, we7 have a responsibility. I do not shun8 that. Any obstacle that is fair to9 remove, this Councilperson, myself, we'll10 do that. But also these kids ain't from11 Mars. They're our own, and we have to12 take responsibility for them. And a lot13 of times it's because they -- I grew up14 on the gold watch that some day if I went15 and did the right thing, I was going to16 retire from a job after 20 years. That17 may not be their reality. The reality18 may be we have to start our own19 enterprises so that we create those20 opportunities. And I don't want us to21 just get stuck on one track.22 And I feel better now.23
Okay. I just24 wanted to say that I feel the same way25 129 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 1100881 you do, and one of the things in the2 reentry program, the classes that we do,3 is taking personal responsibility. I4 don't enjoy working with people that5 aren't motivated and won't do things for6 themselves. I don't particularly like to7 work with people that want me to find8 them a job rather than learning how to9 look for a job. That's what gives me the10 greatest pleasure, when somebody says,11 Art, how can I find a job? That's more12 important to me than just saying, Can you13 give me a job, you know, because I don't14 think that works.15 I was just going to say that16 some of the things you had mentioned with17 the jobs, the self-employed jobs, I don't18 have anybody that has a license. It's19 all public transportation. None of these20 guys have licenses at all.21
They've all23 been suspended, driver's licenses. They24 don't have their own transportation.25 130 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 1100881 They can't get around.2
I know13 when I used to work for State14 Representative David Richardson, that was15 an issue, the lack of a driver's license,16 and driver's licenses are so important as17 it relates to employment. You know that.18
That is20 something that we can figure out.21 I think there's another step to22 that, too. It's my understanding -- I23 can't remember it because it's been a24 while, but if you have a driver's license25 131 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 1100881 and everything is fine and you go to2 prison, you can put your driver's license3 sort of on hold or something like that.4 You may be more familiar. It's been5 years since I dealt with that. And most6 people don't know that. You just let the7 license expire. And it's easier to get8 it back if you actually put it sort of in9 that holding category. I can't remember10 the terminology, but --11
But it's14 something that we used to do like 1815 years ago. I think when people get16 convicted, there needs to be maybe a17 little fact sheet of things they can do18 that will help them when they're finally19 released.20
When I worked21 with primarily drug and alcohol-related22 offenses, individuals with those type of23 offenses and certain punishment, they --24 no one had a drivers's license. No one25 132 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 1100881 could have one. It was a result of fines2 or they were prohibited for whatever3 reason. The reason behind it other than4 fines, I don't remember, but that's a5 real serious, big issue.6
They can't get9 jobs outside of our immediate10 transportation areas either.11
Well, one15 of our speakers today, one of our16 witnesses, will talk about her program17 that actually does transportation for the18 jobseekers. Once they secure the job,19 they continue to do transportation, and20 eventually maybe they can get a ride with21 a co-worker or they can earn enough to22 buy a vehicle themselves. So she'll talk23 about that. I know that that takes24 additional funding to do transporting,25 133 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 1100881 but I also thought a few years back there2 was an opportunity here in Philadelphia3 for -- because it was a big discussion,4 lots of discussions around getting people5 to work in the suburbs. So there was a6 whole transportation that you're probably7 very familiar with.8
They do, but13 you have to get a certain number of14 people that are going to the same15 location. So that would mean they'd have16 to be hired en masse for a certain17 company. And certain companies, that18 just doesn't happen. They don't hire19 that many at one time. So that used to20 be --21
But it is a big24 issue, yes.25 134 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 1100881
Okay. I2 want to thank you. Thank you for your3 testimony and thank you for working with4 us.5
Thank9 you.10 Next we have Wayne Jacobs,11 Broderick Carroll, Reuben Jones. And12 after these three, we have Charles13 Thomas, Letitia Mack and Reverend Darrell14 Dandridge and Jennie Miller.15 (Witnesses approached witness16 table.)17
Broderick -- we're18 going to testify after him, because he19 has to leave.20
I said we're going23 to testify right after he do, right after24 Broderick do, because he has an25 135 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 1100881 appointment he had to get to, and this is2 important.3
Pull the11 mike up and talk into the mike so we can12 hear you.13
I said good14 evening. My name is Broderick Carroll,15 and I'm just here to let the people know16 how important it is to ban the box,17 because of two prior experiences I had.18 I had -- just last year, I had applied19 for some life insurance, and the sales20 representative, he was at my niece's21 house and I applied for life insurance,22 and I was approved. I gave the man my23 money to apply for life insurance. He24 said, you know, you need $42. Give me25 136 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 1100881 that and we'll start your life insurance.2 So I gave him the money.3 A week later, somebody called4 my house -- well, called me on my phone5 and started asking me questions, all kind6 of questions, do you smoke, do you drink.7 No. No, I don't do none of8 that. I don't do none of that.9 He said, Well, have you ever10 been locked up?11 I said, Yes.12 He said, You on probation or13 parole?14 I said, Yeah.15 He said, Hold on for a minute.16 Came back to the phone and said, We not17 going to be able to accept you. We'll18 send you your money back.19 And I was like -- I didn't20 understand it, but my whole thing was21 this happened last year. I've been out22 of jail since 2005. So that's like five23 years I haven't been in jail, and now you24 going to tell me because I say I'm on25 137 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 1100881 probation or I've been locked up that I2 can't get life insurance now?3 Just last month I went for a4 job interview, and at the interview, I5 presented my resume to the people, and6 they looking at my resume. They say, Oh,7 you have a superb resume.8 I was going for to be a youth9 coordinator, a mentor, which I just had10 that job last year. I had child abuse11 clearance and everything.12 So they was like, in the13 interview, they was like, you know, I14 like your resume. It's impressive. I15 like all the questions -- you answered16 all the questions right. We going to17 hire you. So she said, Go on out and18 fill out the application.19 So, you know, when you got to20 the box "have you ever been convicted," I21 checked it off yes. Five minutes later,22 they call me in the office and says, Oh,23 we can't hire you because of that.24 But my whole thing is, I'm only25 138 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 1100881 dealing with children. How through my2 record as a retail theft actually --3 that's what my record consists of, a4 retail theft. How do that affect me of5 getting a job of dealing with children,6 when I have a certificate from the United7 Way stating that I passed the class as a8 mentor, and on my resume I was just last9 year, I was a youth coordinator? So now10 how is it that I'm not qualified to work,11 you know, for a child, to work with12 children? But it's just because of that13 box, you know, yes, I've been convicted14 of a felony, which was 2005. This is15 2011 and you still holding that against16 me, you know. So...17
And it25 139 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 1100881 wasn't an assault.2
So it's4 unbelievable. And I have never heard5 of -- and I don't know everything about6 this. I never heard that you were7 denied, people were denied insurance8 because of a criminal record. What was9 that, life insurance?10
Life13 insurance. That's the first time I've14 heard that.15
So now when I go16 to apply for life insurance, you know, do17 I tell the truth or do I lie?18
Well, I'm19 sure you'll figure that one out, but I20 know I would. Well, it depends on --21 Will made a point that they'll deny your22 claim if something happened to you, but I23 think that's something that you'd have to24 think about.25 140 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 1100881
I mean,3 who would tell? Do they do that kind of4 investigation? Well, they don't want to5 pay, but okay.6 Well, Mr. Broderick, listen, I7 want to thank you for your testimony.8
I want to thank9 you for allowing me to be here. Y'all10 have a good evening.11
We got like maybe14 like six people that want -- about six15 more people. Will that be okay?16
Let us24 get the -- you two, and then we'll get25 141 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 1100881 the other organizations, bring them up2 and then we can have those other folk.3
Madam Chairman7 and the honorable members of the Public8 Safety Committee, thank you for the9 opportunity to speak to you today to10 bring this issue to light. 22 For the past 11 years, XCE has conducted23 anti-illegal gun rallies in one of the24 City's hot spots for violence to raise25 142 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 1100881 community awareness of the issue of gun2 violence and to empower community3 residents to take aggressive action to4 save the lives of youth. 9 In 2003, XCE partnered up with10 Up Against the Law Collective to form the11 Part of Me Clinic to remove barriers to12 employment for formerly convicted -- for13 the formerly convicted through the14 utilization of executive clemency. In15 this work, XCE worked with Community16 Legal Services and the Philadelphia17 Public Defenders Association. 21 XCE also worked with government22 and community-based organizations serving23 youth in the effort to prevent violence24 at its root. These organizations include25 143 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 4 The work of XCE has been5 recognized by this distinguished body6 with a resolution presented on October7 21st, 2010. 11 XCE is in total support of the12 ban the box bill. XCE stands firmly13 against all discriminatory practices14 against formerly convicted people. S. prisons and20 jails. Another 5 million people are21 under supervision by the criminal justice22 system on probation or parole. More than23 70 percent of those in prison are people24 of color. Pennsylvania has a higher25 144 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 1100881 correction population in all but eight2 states. Out of all 50 states,3 Pennsylvania has the greatest disparity4 between white and non-white incarceration5 rates. 9 The punishment does not end10 once a convicted felon has been released11 from incarceration. 16 When the formerly convicted return to17 their communities and families and try to18 put their lives back together, they19 encounter a myriad of barriers that make20 it extraordinarily difficult to care for21 their families, find work, get safe22 housing, obtain public benefits, or for23 immigrants to stay in the same country as24 their families. As the entire political25 145 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 1100881 economy of the criminal legal system2 relies on racist and classless practices3 in arrest, conviction and sentencing4 procedures, a disproportionate number of5 ex-offenders are people of color and poor6 people. 25 146 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 5 Although the ban the box bill6 would not be a cure-all for a system of7 apartheid as it relates to the formerly8 convicted, but it will be a start. 23 We often note that too many of24 our children grow up in fatherless homes,25 147 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 1100881 which leave our children at risk to2 delinquency and other developmental3 maladies. 15
25 148 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 1100881 When all of our positions first2 started out doing this kind of work, we3 recognized that it's not no one size fit4 all for formerly convicted people. You5 know, you got formerly convicted people6 that fits in different areas, but they7 trying to set things up to make it one8 size fit all. 18 You know, when looking at the19 extent of the convictions and how it20 affects people, you can have people that21 been off parole and probation for 20, 30,22 35 years crime-free. 25 149 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 11 They are held to the last -- until they12 die, and this is the reason why we need13 to make some kind of changes. 17 At the time that we started18 this work, we had people coming to us19 that been home for 20, 25 years, and the20 first thing they said was, I didn't know21 you can have a pardon. I didn't know you22 can clean your record up. And what did23 that say to us? That says to me that the24 Probation Department never told their25 150 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 3 Also go for people that's on4 parole. Parole officers never tells5 them. 11 Now, our organization assists12 people with cleaning up their records13 through the pardon process and14 expungement. We are the only group in15 the State of Pennsylvania that is16 providing that service outside the legal17 community. No one else do this. 19 You got 300,000 formerly20 convicted people living in this city,21 with 200,000 no longer on probation and22 parole and being treated like they just23 got sentenced, that been home for 20, 25,24 30 years. But now they are facing a new25 151 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 1100881 reality. 5 You know, this is the reason6 why -- one of the things that we would7 like to try to get the Council to do is8 begin to look at people, formerly9 convicted people, and let's say two10 categories. Three years or less. If a11 person got three years or less time, they12 should have had either went into some13 type of reentry program, some kind of14 training program. Before they are ready15 to work, they should have went to some16 type of program and have a program send a17 referral letter saying this person is18 ready to work, because a lot of times19 employers don't know and a lot of times20 these developers, the job developers,21 they're most so concerned about numbers,22 sending folks, sending folks, but we feel23 that what they should do is, they should24 certify that person. If that person went25 152 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 6 Now, the other group of folks7 that we talk about is the ones that been8 home three years or more. These folks9 here doesn't necessarily need a referral,10 okay, simply because of the fact that11 they been home three years or more. And12 all the surveys and studies that have13 been done says that after a person been14 home three years, his likelihood to15 recommit a crime is just like a person16 that never committed a crime. And I will17 get you that report. I forgot to bring18 it. It called Redemption. 25 153 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 1100881 And so, you know, what we're2 saying is that we should begin to look at3 things like this and start putting things4 in order so that folks can get back to5 work, so this way, we can address this6 issue of long-term poverty within our7 city. You know, we got one-fifth of our8 population is poverty. 9 One-fifth of the population is formerly10 convicted people, too. 12
Thank you16 for your testimony.17 Charles Thomas, Letitia Mack18 and Jennie Miller.19 (Witnesses approached witness20 table.)21
Good afternoon,22 and thank you for having me here. I'm23 Charles Thomas. I'm from Camden, New24 Jersey.25 154 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 1100881
6 At the age of 19 years old, I7 was incarcerated. 9 I was released in 2001. I was10 transferred from the prison system to a11 community release program, which we now12 call a reentry program. I was sent from13 New Jersey state prison to the Garrett14 House, which was for violent offenders at15 that time. 19 The Garrett House is situated20 directly across the street from Rutgers21 University and adjacent to Camden County22 College. When I got there, I was full of23 aspirations. I wanted to go to Rutgers24 University. And with a GED, I thought25 155 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 1100881 that it would not qualify me to go into2 that university, but I was encouraged to3 try anyway. 5 The staff at the Garrett House6 at that time provided so much7 encouragement to the men that were sent8 there. 12 I went on three days after my13 graduation and applied for graduate14 school, and one year after that, I15 graduated in 2004 with a Master's Degree16 in social work. My interest was working17 with juveniles. I wanted to work with18 adolescent boys, because when I was very19 young, I was influenced by the streets20 and I ended up joining gangs and sticking21 people up. I ended up in prison, of22 course. 25 156 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 1100881 Thinking that my education2 would qualify me for those type jobs, I3 was just deluding myself. There's so4 many regulations in place. No matter how5 much a person do to try and better him or6 herself, if you have that criminal7 record, you're still going to be held8 accountable, even though my offense9 happened in 1974. 12 And after being denied those13 opportunities, I was offered a job with14 the same agency that I went to as an15 inmate, and I now work for Volunteers of16 America. The halfway house that I was17 sent to I now supervise. I have 84 men18 in one house and 48 women in the other19 house. The same services that benefited20 me are the services that I now provide21 for other men and women going through and22 facing some of the very same challenges23 that I faced. Without going through a24 halfway house or a reentry program, I25 157 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 2 Most men and women that I work3 with, all they want is an opportunity,4 and once given the opportunity, they step5 up to the plate. 35 an hour as waitresses, and7 the things that they do with the money8 that they make would amaze you. Savings9 accounts skyrocket. As waitresses, they10 rely on tips. They have to have bank11 accounts. They pay child support. 18 A lot of men and women come to19 our programs with skills. I don't20 believe anyone getting out of prison come21 to us for us to fix them. No one was22 born in prison. 23 Building upon the strengths that people24 bring into our programs I believe is25 158 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 2 We have men that come in who3 are absolutely excellent at remodeling4 houses. We have men with plumbing5 certification. And when they come to us,6 they think, well, we need to go out and7 find a job. Well, while you're under the8 umbrella of the Department of9 Corrections, of course, you have to live10 by their rules and regulations. 20 Some of the things you talked21 about already was the driver's license22 issue. A lot of times people that get23 convicted, loss of license, loss of24 driving privileges become one of those25 159 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 1100881 collateral sanctions that the courts2 impose. And if you have child support3 arrears, you will lose your driving4 privileges as well. So they attach those5 things, not understanding the impact that6 it have on looking for work. If you live7 in a rural area, buses and public8 transportation is sparse. 10 You can't legitimately job search if you11 can't drive. 22 Also, when we talk about23 banning the box, my first job search that24 I went on, it was absolutely25 160 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 1100881 discouraging.
In fact, that I honestly2 thought I had the job until I handed in3 my application and I checked the box,4 yes, I have been convicted. As soon as5 he read the first page and saw the box,6 he told me to leave. We don't hire7 ex-offenders. And the program that I8 went into, we absolutely had to find a9 job within 30 days, and if you don't find10 a job within 30 days, you was placed on a11 15-day contract, which means they12 extended your job search for 15 days,13 because the Department of Corrections at14 that time, which was ten years ago,15 thought that if you didn't find a job in16 a prescribed timeframe, you really wasn't17 looking for one. And so on my 27th day,18 I did find a job. I found a job at a19 warehouse cleaning toilets. 50 a day. And I made $824 an hour cleaning toilets, and I cleaned25 161 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 1100881 those toilets, to quote or paraphrase2 Dr. King, like Rembrandt painted3 pictures. And I got promoted, of course,4 and was able to purchase my first house,5 moved on after I graduated. I got6 offered the opportunity at Volunteers of7 America, where I currently work as the8 Treatment Director of both of those9 facilities. And it just goes to show10 what a person can do with the proper11 motivation, putting the proper case12 management in place, having those13 employment specialists that's going to be14 there to walk people through. Because if15 you've been in prison ten years, 1516 years, five years, there's a need, and17 that need is job readiness skills, being18 able to sell yourself, being able to go19 on an interview and conduct yourself in20 the proper way. All of that stuff helps21 you get into the door. 24 So when we talk about banning25 162 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 7 What happens to the other 90 percent of8 the men and women who never make it to a9 reentry program? 13 The number of people that make14 it to reentry programs is so small, but15 those people that are affected by the box16 is everybody with a conviction. Any17 person in the State of New Jersey or18 Pennsylvania that has a conviction, the19 box will impact your opportunity. So20 banning that box is critical. 22 Anything that I can do or Volunteers of23 America across the bridge can do to24 assist you with your work, I'm here to do25 163 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 3
Thank4 you. Thank you for your testimony.5 Ms. Mack.6
Good afternoon,7 everyone. My name is Letitia Mack. I am8 a convicted felon, as well as the founder9 of Project 4Ever Striving, which is a10 non-profit organization that helps11 ex-offenders with treatment, employment,12 transportation and housing.13 Being characterized as formerly14 convicted people, we are faced with15 barriers that are used as a detriment for16 utilizing our full potential. The17 judgment that is placed behind the18 negative connection is far greater than19 the recognition for our qualifications20 and capabilities.21 Prior to becoming a convicted22 felon, I worked for 22 years. I worked23 at a law firm where I developed a24 collection department and managed that25 164 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 1100881 department. I also worked for Drexel2 University where I was a front-desk team3 leader. After becoming a convicted4 felon, as I began to apply for jobs, they5 were not suited for my qualifications or6 my experiences. Every single time I had7 to fill out an application and check off8 that box "have you ever been convicted of9 a crime," my stomach would swirl. So, of10 course, I do agree with you, Councilman11 Jones, Councilwoman Miller, as you said12 earlier, there's nothing wrong with13 entrepreneurship, because when I went14 down to Municipal Service Building and15 completed that application for a business16 license, they never asked that question,17 and I felt free.18 I have other experiences just19 being a director of an ex-offenders20 program. I had one gentleman come in.21 He had worked for 25 years at a steel22 company. The company closed. When the23 company closed, this gentleman became24 very depressed. He's about 67 now. He25 165 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 1100881 became very depressed. He lost his2 family. He lost his house, and he began3 to abuse drugs.4 After cleaning up, he got a5 job. The job wasn't paying the same6 amount that he was used to making. Of7 course, he had to go to some treatment.8 He got hurt on the job and paralyzed the9 left side of his body. He's now10 collecting disability. Went to help him11 to apply for housing through PHA, and12 just because he has a drug conviction, he13 was turned away.14 There are so many barriers that15 are associated with being a convicted16 felon. But we can push through them.17 You know, the places that I take the18 gentleman to get hired, they do start19 them off at $10 to $11. They're on the20 outskirts of Philadelphia. So we have to21 provide them with transportation to and22 from work. And that has been working.23 I've had some people -- I've witnessed24 them change their lives. So if you just25 166 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 1100881 put forth the effort, stay focused and do2 what you have to do, it can work for you.3 In Philadelphia, there are not4 many places that will hire convicted5 felons. We do have to put in the extra6 effort to go find these jobs, and they're7 only on the outskirts of Philadelphia.8 That's all I have. Do you have9 any questions for me?10 COUNCILWOMAN MILLER:11 Councilman Jones.12
I'm going to13 be real brief, because we -- and the14 Chairwoman has been very gracious to have15 so many people testify, so I won't abuse16 that.17 But two things. One, I applaud18 you and what you're doing to train people19 to get ready for jobs, because I think20 that's very important.21 Volunteers of America, I had an22 opportunity as a freshman with Bill Green23 and Councilwoman Sanchez to come over and24 tour. I don't know if you remember that,25 167 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 1100881 but it was excellent, and the question2 becomes, how do we look at what you do3 and are you referred by the Office of4 Reentry? Do people from the reentry5 program, are they referred to your6 program?7
In most cases, they8 are. And I don't want to speak negative9 about another program, but in most cases,10 when I get people that come from11 different programs, it's because they12 could not find employment and they come13 and they're in need. They need14 employment. They need to pay their15 bills. They need to feed their children.16 So most of the referrals come from word17 of mouth, outreach, substance abuse, men18 who are on welfare. If you're a19 convicted felon and you don't have a drug20 problem and you have fines, you are not21 able to get on welfare. So most programs22 will turn you away, depending on your23 court situation.24
To all of25 168 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 1100881 you who have testified today, I'd say2 this: This is one hearing. It is not3 the end. It is the beginning, thanks to4 the Chairwoman. We need to spend some5 time, quality time, in a room a couple of6 days and figure out department by7 department, federal level, city level,8 state level, what an action plan is for9 us to do.10 I can speak for the members of11 this Committee, we're interested and12 that's why many of us stayed here all13 day, but what we don't have is the14 answers that you have, because you've15 lived it. So we need to exchange16 information like we're beginning to do17 today, but then we need to roll up our18 sleeves and be solutionaries to figure19 out long-term solutions.20 I heard so much, Mr. Blackburn,21 and I always am amazed when I listen to22 folk that I don't -- I didn't just meet23 at this hearing. They actually come down24 to my office every now and then and stop25 169 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 1100881 in. But I need to challenge you guys to2 put us in a room, legislators from all3 levels, and let's work on this problem4 together, because I think it was said,5 and I agree, it is the civil rights issue6 for many Americans in the inner city.7 And, you know, it's nice to have voting8 rights. It's nice to have employment9 rights. It's nice to have housing10 rights, but if we don't deal with this11 issue, we are creating a generation of12 untouchable class discriminated-against13 people that will be damned in a way that14 to repeat mistakes over and over again,15 and we have to do something about it.16 There is no such thing as throw-away17 people.18
Right.19 And I think -- I know that this Committee20 has a commitment, and, you know, there's21 just so many questions and answers. I22 think one of the things that we'll do is23 look at the DVD, because this is being24 recorded, and the transcripts and look25 170 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 1100881 at -- pull out the suggestions that folks2 made, and that's one place we can start3 to do follow-up.4 So this can't be the end. I5 mean, this is not the type of hearing you6 can just have once and just keep moving.7 This is a big, big problem here, and8 we're faced here in Philadelphia and many9 cities across the country.10 So I want to thank you for your11 testimony. I have had the fortune to12 meet with many of the groups, so that's13 why -- and we've met for an hour, hour14 and a half or more and just getting lots15 of information, getting a lot of16 questions answered. So I want to thank17 you for coming in, and I am sending you18 an e-mail a little later.19
We have24 four people left, and that is Clarence25 171 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 1100881 Harris, Andre Bolling, William Brown and2 Kevin Hutch, and I believe that's it.3 (Witnesses approached witness4 table.)5
Is there8 anybody else in the room to testify?9 (No response.)10
So it's11 just these four. Great.12 I just need to just say just13 for the record, this is not the first14 hearing that we've had on this whole15 issue. We've been working on this for a16 long time. We've had many meetings. We17 have this little committee going on. So18 this is just one of the hearings. We19 just need to keep moving and keep doing20 whatever it is we need to do to help in21 this whole area.22 So we're going to start with23 Clarence Harris, Andrew Bolling, William24 Brown and Kevin Hutch. That's the order.25 172 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 1100881 Make sure the mike is up close enough for2 you to speak in, identify yourself for3 the record and proceed with your4 testimony.5
Thank you, Madam6 Councilwoman. My name is Clarence7 Harris. I have a brief statement. 9 I would like to thank first10 Philadelphia City Council and directly11 you, Madam Councilwoman Miller, for12 allowing me to come here and speak today13 concerning Bill 100543 sponsored by14 Councilwoman Miller. My name is Clarence15 Harris. I'm a registered voter from the16 51st Ward. 20 I sit here before you today as21 a citizen, community member and father22 who is offering his support to the ban23 the box bill. In order make clear why I24 support this measure, I must tell you a25 173 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 3 I'm 46 years old. I have lived4 in Philadelphia most of my life. 88. I have7 Bachelor's degrees in anthropology,8 history and political science. I was9 awarded the honor of Distinguished10 Delegate at the Harvard Model United11 Nations debates in 1999. I studied under12 Carlo Gasperino Minote (ph), former chef13 for the Belgian royal family. I have14 become a chef of a small but growing15 reputation in Philadelphia, outside of16 Philadelphia and different parts of the17 country. 22 In 2001 -- I was married. I23 have two children. In 2001, my marriage24 hit a rough spot and there was a25 174 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 1100881 separation. During that separation, the2 family finances were sloppily managed and3 we began to fall behind in payments for4 mortgage, utilities, cars, credit cards5 and what-have-you. As often happens, I6 had to rob from Paul to pay Peter and7 began to juggle expenses. 11 candidacy at Harvard's Kennedy School of12 Politics, University of Chicago or the13 University of Pennsylvania. 17 Checks began to bounce. I18 began to try and find different ways and19 worked harder and harder to manage two20 different households then. And, like I21 said, checks began to bounce. Long story22 short is, there were several suits filed23 and ultimately criminal complaints as24 well. Eventually I pled guilty to two25 175 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 3 Ever since, I have experienced the4 difficulties -- first I have to mention5 too that as a result of that plea, I was6 sentenced to six to 24 months in state7 prison for misdemeanor bad checks. I8 spent 18 months -- six to 24 months in9 state prison. My first cellie murdered10 his child, stabbed her 41 times. 17 Ever since, I've experienced18 the difficulties of having just these19 minor infractions associated with my20 name. 23 Since May of 2010, I have been24 on a constant job search and had it25 176 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 1100881 explained to me on many occasions that2 because of the check on the box that asks3 if I had been convicted, I stand a lesser4 chance of securing employment in keeping5 with my experience and training. 7 Now, I must say that over the8 past few years, I found that I've had to9 accept lesser positions and become very10 willing to prove myself, and there have11 always been promotions associated with12 it. 17 I've also been a businessowner,18 and I didn't have that opportunity19 provided for me -- provided to me because20 I said let me settle for less. 22 I believe that this whole23 thing, this check the box bit, it robs an24 individual of the opportunity to speak25 177 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 1100881 for his or herself at an interview where2 a fair judgment can be reached. 9 And I used to hear all the time the one10 thing the system didn't need was another11 angry black man. Well, I wasn't raised12 to be that, and I found myself being13 that. 18 I don't belong to any great19 organization other than NCCF. 25 178 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 1100881
Good evening,4 Councilwoman. I don't have anything5 written. I just wanted give my testimony6 based on the things that I've been7 through. I'm an ex-offender. I was --8 COURT STENOGRAPHER: Can I have9 your name?10
My name is Andre11 Bolling. I apologize.12 Basically, I was convicted13 about seven years ago, and there's three14 different types of boxes that you can15 check on the application, have you ever16 been convicted, have you ever been17 arrested, and subsequently have you been18 arrested in the past seven years.19 However, it's just like spam e-mail.20 When you see someone who checks, yes,21 I've been convicted or arrested or in the22 past seven years have been in jail, they23 basically delete it from their inbox, and24 it kind of seems discriminatory.25 179 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 1100881 However, I feel as though most of these2 companies in the future are going to have3 you apply for future employment through4 the Internet, and that's going to5 prohibit the ordinance in Philadelphia,6 because the headquarters is going to be7 in another state. However, I appreciate8 the proactive incentive that you have9 taken, and I just wanted to say thank you10 to you and I've been following the issue,11 and I hope it passes.12 That's all I have to say.13 Thank you.14
Thank15 you. We'll have to check on that out of16 state, because I believe the human17 resource and the hiring would take place18 here, not out of state. I know that one19 company I met with, they do their20 background checks the same across the21 country. So they send it to their main22 headquarters, but they actually do the23 hiring here.24 So that's something we'll25 180 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 1100881 probably check on. Thank you.2 Okay. William Brown.3
11 I was young. I was 19 years12 old and basically I was shot and I was13 robbed. Okay? 16 When I was shot and robbed, I17 stated that I didn't want that to happen18 to me again. Okay? I started carrying a19 gun for protection. In carrying a gun20 for protection, I wound up going to a21 movie theatre, was at Cheltenham Mall and22 I was not thinking when I got in line23 that I still had that gun on me. They24 was checking at the mall for anything as25 181 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 1100881 you go into the movie theatre. Not2 unless I got out of line once I realized3 that I had it on me and they was4 checking. I got caught, got arrested,5 make a long story short. 7 I went to jail. I did five and8 a half years in federal prison. In the9 federal prison, I educated myself while I10 was there. I got my GED. I studied the11 stock market and other things. 14 I wish Councilman Jones was15 here, because he was stating as far as16 going into business for yourself,17 creating a job for yourself. You can do18 that, but in a lot of situations, some19 people may not be looking forward to20 doing so. They might want to take their21 life in a different direction as far as22 working for an employer. And basically23 that's what I wanted to do. I wanted to24 go into business but actually for an25 182 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 2 I went to school to CHI, and3 they had a business school there. I4 wanted to attend, but the lady there told5 me that being as though I have a criminal6 background, I may not want to go in that7 direction, because it's very hard to find8 a job going in that direction. 12 So I went for electrician, and she says13 more that you may get a job doing14 electrical having a background than it15 would for you going into business. 17 I was one person who always was18 determined to succeed. 25 183 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 1100881 No. I started off at the bottom. I2 flipped burgers. 8 I did that for two years, became a9 manager at Home Video. I became a store10 director. And all of this was because of11 the fact that I was checking no on an12 application to get hired at the jobs. If13 I didn't -- I was home for almost a year14 trying to look for employment and wasn't15 getting employment because of the fact16 that I was being honest and checking yes17 on the box. 19 With that, I want to say this:20 As far as removing it from an21 application, if you took ten people who22 committed a felon and -- I've been on23 both sides. I also hired people. I have24 a chance to do hiring at jobs, and I had25 184 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 1100881 to look at people who committed a felon,2 who put yes on the application. 6 If you took ten people who7 committed a felon and for the employer to8 remove -- for the question to be there so9 you can get to know the person to find10 out who they are so you wouldn't hire11 them on a job and potentially doing12 something to harm people that has come13 into your business for service, you can14 take nine of those people who succeeded,15 worked there for a year with nothing16 happening. You take one who do do17 something. An employer say, Okay, well,18 if this box wasn't removed off the19 application, the person that committed20 this crime that we hired, more than21 likely we probably wouldn't have hired22 that person and this wouldn't have23 happened. Well, is it fair to the people24 who fill out an application and committed25 185 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 1100881 an offense, the nine people who are2 successful? It will take them out of3 getting a job and being successful4 because of the fact that that box is5 there.
And basically, you know, that was6 my point in making, that the box should7 be removed off an application, because,8 again, the man that was here, when he was9 speaking about after you get out of10 prison, the three years that you should11 do and it should be removed after you are12 out of prison and been successful and not13 committing another crime after those14 three years, that you should be able to15 check no that you never committed a16 felon. What about the time the five and17 a half years that I did in the federal18 correctional institution? Because that's19 what it's supposed to be. What about20 those five years that I've done and21 corrected myself and came out into22 society to try to get a job, but then I23 will have to go to these programs and24 prove myself again that I'm able to work25 186 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 1100881 and be successful in the community, you2 know. 8
Well, you9 know, we agree with you and that's why10 we're doing the legislation.11 You're working now?12
No, I'm not working13 now. I'm actually in the same program14 that this gentleman is in and the15 gentleman before me was in, which is16 Career for Fathers. I'm actually in that17 program. I'm actually in that program18 now.19
Okay.20 Well, I wish you success.21 Okay. Our last person to22 testify, Kevin Hutch.23
Yes. Hi,24 Councilwoman Miller. Pleasure to see you25 187 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 1100881 again. 11 Give you basic background. I'm12 a William Penn graduate, '97, lived in13 Philadelphia most of my life. I14 originally went college in Lincoln15 University, came back. In 2002, I pled16 guilty to a list of misdemeanors, first17 and only time I've been in trouble with18 the law. Since then was an ongoing19 struggle finding employment. 22 It got to a point where I felt like more23 education was needed. I always was a24 person where my mentality was I was a25 188 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 1100881 bull in a China shop, just show me what2 dishes to break. 6 So I went to Thompson7 Institute, graduated with a pretty high8 GPA. Unlike the gentleman before me9 stated the people at his school told him10 you shouldn't apply, go out for this type11 of schooling because it wouldn't be12 beneficial towards you, Thompson13 Institute basically sold me a car. Oh,14 no, it won't affect you. Your criminal15 background won't affect you. And I went16 and graduated, and I have never in many17 applications I do in every major hospital18 and medical facility in Philadelphia has19 never been in a position to have an20 interview nor a phone call back. 25 189 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 1100881 But at the time, I used that --2 well, partially education and my3 experiences already working with retail4 chains, in that nature, and entertainment5 jobs. I was assistant manager at Famous6 Footwear in Lansdale and Philadelphia,7 went from there due to upward mobility I8 felt, I started working Comcast as a9 customer service agent. 12 A few months later I started working at13 Yellow Book USA as a contract negotiation14 specialist. 21 Having nervous breakdowns at22 work led me being part of the layoffs23 they had there at Yellow Book USA, and24 that was April 2009. Since then, I was25 190 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 1100881 looking for a gainful employment and2 going through the struggles of having to3 check that box off. At first it didn't4 affect me, because, you know, I've5 obtained employment before, but knowing6 the economy the way it was, it's going to7 be rougher. You got people who have very8 vast educations, you know, and they're9 out of work. 13 I finally obtained some level14 of gainful employment when I was accepted15 to work at GameStop. This story in16 itself was subject of a cover story for17 the December 13th, 2010 Daily News. I18 was in this program about a month, month19 and a half, and then October, I sat down20 with one of the district managers. And I21 originally told them all my misdemeanor22 charges in regards to 2002. They told me23 that they found something else on my24 criminal background that I did not25 191 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 1100881 disclose to them, and did I know what it2 was, and I told them no. They asked me3 if it was something on there, would you4 be surprised. I told them I'd be5 shocked. 8 They didn't even tell me. 10 At the same time, I was going11 out for overnight customer service12 manager for Wal-Mart in Warminster,13 Pennsylvania. Since being out of work14 for so long, I was going to work both15 jobs just to pay back bills and things of16 that nature. They were more informative17 into what happened. I received a letter18 from Wal-Mart stating that I had a felony19 conviction for cocaine possession in '9620 in Gloucester County, Virginia. Never21 been there. 23 So after I turned over a lot of24 stones, I finally got it removed, sent my25 192 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 1100881 fingerprints down to Virginia State2 Police, and they removed it. " And let's20 just be frank. That box is a21 discriminatory tool used by companies to22 not hire ex-offenders. It is outright a23 discriminatory tool. But there are more24 tools, as in my case, more tools that are25 193 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES.
2 To me, this is a start, but3 more discussions have to be put in play4 so that the future generations don't have5 to go through the same things. One main6 discriminatory tools is the background7 check, because the way I feel about it,8 if a background -- and this is just not9 my words. This is words of Pennsylvania10 state law. This document I received from11 Community Legal Services, and it states12 Pennsylvania law states felony and13 misdemeanor convictions may be considered14 by an employer only to the extent which15 they relate to the applicant's16 suitability for employment in the17 position for which he has applied. 23 Now, with that said, there are24 too many loopholes, way too many25 194 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 1100881 loopholes so that a company does not have2 to do that. They could tell them, Oh,3 well, we found somebody with a little4 more experience. Oh, well, you don't5 have enough experience, and that person6 has vast experience. 10 Also, if you really think about11 it, companies itself, their human12 resource departments are their13 departments. There's no entity outside14 of their departments making sure that15 they are holding up to this law that16 Pennsylvania has installed. Look at the17 alternatives that we have currently. You18 don't hire ex-offenders. 21 You have the Mayor and the22 Commissioner of Police complaining about23 repeat offenders, but are not doing24 enough to ensure that they have a level25 195 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. What are the solutions? Build more prisons. To me, that's4 likening to, you have a ditch and your5 purpose is to fill that ditch up so no6 one can fall in it, but your solution is7 let's just dig a bigger ditch. That does8 not solve a problem. 10 I mean, you have like the RISE11 corporation. I went to RISE. I tried to12 apply for RISE. One of the provisions,13 what they just told you, one of their14 rules in getting into RISE was, your15 crime has to be at the oldest seven16 years, and like I told a representative17 at RISE, Well, ma'am, companies care less18 how many years a crime has been19 committed. 21 So you have -- it's a great22 percentage they have in regards to how23 many people that come through that24 program become repeat offenders, only25 196 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 1100881 three percent, but when you're helping2 only a small window of Pennsylvania's3 people with criminal convictions, it's4 not a great batting average. That's like5 if, say, for instance, Jayson Werth had6 only 100 at bats one year, but he had a7 400 batting average versus someone who8 had 500 at bats and a 280 batting9 average. 13 To me, the positives, though,14 of having this law is that, yes, a person15 can get in the door and sell themselves16 and tell them, yes, I committed this17 crime certain years ago, but this is what18 I've done since then. I let my walk19 speak for itself. 21 There has to be some type of22 laws put into place in which individuals23 themselves cannot be discriminated24 against years down the road. They paid25 197 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 3 So for me, I'm in great support4 of this law, but, like I said, there has5 to be much more be done, because this6 society or this city itself -- the people7 use that term, a chain is as strong as8 its weakest link. To me, a society is as9 strong as its most needful people, and of10 anything, these individuals that are here11 today and other people around the City,12 the hundreds of thousands of individuals13 that have gone through things as similar14 as I have, are the City's most needful15 people. 22
Well,23 that's one of the reasons why we're doing24 this ban the box. We know it's25 198 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 1100881 discriminatory.2 Before I go any further,3 though, I want to make note that4 Councilwoman Blackwell is now in5 attendance at this hearing.6 I also want to announce that we7 did get our date for ban the box. It's8 March 16th at 10:00 a.m. here in this9 Council Chambers.10
March the12 16th. That's a Wednesday, at 10:00 a.m.13 You know, you're going to get a14 formal notice, but since we were here15 when we got the approval on the date, I16 just wanted to announce it before the17 hearing ended.18 With that, we have no more -- I19 don't believe we have anybody else to20 testify, and I want to thank you for21 coming. Thank you for your testimony,22 and this Committee is recessed until the23 call of the Chair.24 Thank you.25 199 2/23/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 1100881 (Committee on Public Safety2 recessed at 5:35 p.m.)3 - - -4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 200 CERTIFICATE2 I HEREBY CERTIFY that the3 proceedings, evidence and objections are4 contained fully and accurately in the5 stenographic notes taken by me upon the6 foregoing matter on February 23, 2011, and7 that this is a true and correct transcript of8 same.9 --------------------14 MICHELE L. MURPHY15 RPR-Notary Public16 (The foregoing certification of this20 transcript does not apply to any reproduction21 of the same by any means, unless under the22 direct control and/or supervision of the23 certifying reporter.)24