Committee Hearing, March 12, 2008

So I think our calculation comes to approximately $9,815,000. DEPUTY COMMISSIONER GAITTENS: Yes, Madam President, I believe that is correct. As you know, when the budget is laid out, we don't have that total 6,824 from the beginning of the year all the way through. Positions leave. We hire people. They only serve for part of the year.

That's what I'm trying to get to. DEPUTY COMMISSIONER GAITTENS: Yes, ma'am. So that's actually an accounting offset to try and regulate the 75 3/12/08 - WHOLE - BILL 080156 budget. And, again, that is just an estimate. We don't know for sure how many people are going to attrit. When we lay out our academy classes in the beginning of the year, we're hoping to have these classes start, but sometimes we have problems recruiting people, having them pass all the stages, so a recruit class may be pushed back a couple of pay periods, and that affects the number also. So that is an estimate as to what we believe the vacancy would be.

And how about the turnover of positions, what is the budgeted amount of that? DEPUTY COMMISSIONER GAITTENS: Basically turnover is, if we lose a veteran officer who is making the top of the salary with a lot of longevity, that's more money there than it is when you hire a brand new recruit. They're at a much lower salary scale.

And 76 3/12/08 - WHOLE - BILL 080156 our calculation again is approximately $1,460,000 or more. DEPUTY COMMISSIONER GAITTENS: That would sound about right, yes.

So the total of delay and turnover is $11,276,044. DEPUTY COMMISSIONER GAITTENS: Yes, ma'am. That is the estimate, yes. That's correct.

Okay. If I assume an average cost of a police officer to be $50,000, that means on average we must maintain 226 vacancies at all times. Is that correct? DEPUTY COMMISSIONER GAITTENS: The average cost of a police officer, looking at it based on the 7/1/07 salary range, is 56,860. That's a base salary of 53,444, a longevity amount of 1,278, stress differential of 2,138, for a total of 56,860.

But isn't that over 200 officer vacancies 77 3/12/08 - WHOLE - BILL 080156 that we would have to have at all times? DEPUTY COMMISSIONER GAITTENS: I don't know that we have a 200 officer vacancy at all times, ma'am, no. This is a figure that's carried through every year. Last year there was the same thing with the delay in filling positions and the difference between the rates. That's the best answer I have.

But did you have approximately 200 vacancies? DEPUTY COMMISSIONER GAITTENS: Oh, no, ma'am.

You never did? DEPUTY COMMISSIONER GAITTENS: Not 200.

With the budgeted amount of money that you had, you didn't necessarily have to have vacancies? DEPUTY COMMISSIONER GAITTENS: Well, we did have vacancies during the course of the year, but I do not believe 78 3/12/08 - WHOLE - BILL 080156 at any time we went down to 200 below our authorized level. For the last fiscal year, our authorized strength is 6,624. We did go down below that. We went well below that at a certain point, but I don't think it reached 200. At the end of Fiscal Year '09, we will be at 6,824. However, we will not maintain that level during the course of the year. Looking at the breakdown for the amount of officers we'll have during the course of the year, from the beginning of the fiscal year at 7/1/08, we anticipate having 6,611. We anticipate putting in three classes, Class No. 354, 355 and 356. And when we end the year at 6/30/09, we anticipate ending at the authorized level of 6,824. However, looking at the full year average with the people who go out and as the level goes down and then it comes back up after an academy class, we believe our full year average for Fiscal Year '09 will only be 6,774. So that is 79 3/12/08 - WHOLE - BILL 080156 about a 50 officer deficit as an average number.

Would you mind repeating that number? DEPUTY COMMISSIONER GAITTENS: Yes, ma'am. I believe our projection right now during Fiscal Year '09, at the end of the year, our full year average would be 6,774, which would be 50 officers less than the fully authorized 6,824. And, again, that's due to the fluctuation in manpower based on attrition and our hiring rate. Now, I do not have the sheet with me for Fiscal Year '08, but I would be glad to provide Council with that sheet to show what our average was for Fiscal '08.

I think we're going to have to talk a little later. DEPUTY COMMISSIONER GAITTENS: I actually do have that. For Fiscal Year '08, the full 80 3/12/08 - WHOLE - BILL 080156 year average is 6,598. So that's officers short for Fiscal Year '08.

We'll 5 get this straightened out, because our 6 calculation and yours apparently are way 7 off. 8 DEPUTY COMMISSIONER GAITTENS: 9 Again, this does not include the 10 aviation, the Airport unit. So there's 11 155 sworn there also. 12

13 Understood. 14 Now, the 200 additional 15 officers, it is my understanding that 100 16 will be paid by the state or the 17 appropriation will be made by the state. 18 DEPUTY COMMISSIONER GAITTENS: 19 We hope for that, yes. 20

And 21 the other 100 will be paid by the City. 22 DEPUTY COMMISSIONER GAITTENS: 23 The City, yes, ma'am. 24

25 Commissioner, can you tell us if you are 81 3/12/08 - WHOLE - BILL 080156 in support of extending the DROP program? I know that there had been a proposal on the table where they were trying to keep certain levels of police officers for an additional year. COMMISSIONER RAMSEY: Yes, ma'am, I am in support of that, provided, of course, that it doesn't extend to everyone who is in the DROP program. There are some ranks that we simply do not need that additional year. But in order for us to slow attrition and to maintain our strength while we're trying to grow as a department, it will be necessary for us to try to do everything possible, including extending the DROP program for people, in order to be able to maintain those numbers.

And what ranks would they be? COMMISSIONER RAMSEY: Police officer, detective, sergeant primarily. There may be some other exceptions, but those are the three that are most crucial 82 3/12/08 - WHOLE - BILL 080156 to us. Corporal I would put in there as possibly, but officer, detective and sergeant primarily.

For the record, can you explain what a targeted enforcement zone is? COMMISSIONER RAMSEY: Yes, ma'am. It's more commonly referred to as a hot spot. It's an area where there's a concentration of criminal activity taking place. It could be anywhere from a square block to three, four square blocks or even larger than that. The point is to pinpoint that particular area, put additional resources there, monitor the progress you're making toward reducing crime and, more importantly, being very sensitive to displacement. Often times when you have hot spots or targeted enforcement zones you put additional resources there, things quiet down, but the activity simply moves elsewhere. So you have to monitor the surrounding area to make sure 83 3/12/08 - WHOLE - BILL 080156 you don't have that problem, and if that's the case, then you have to add resources there as well.

And for the record, can you please tell us what the nine most violent districts are? COMMISSIONER RAMSEY: Yes. We did some research to take a look at the crime problem in Philadelphia. We did that as part of our Crime Plan. 12, 14, 15, 18, 19, 22, 25, 35 and 39. Now, there were some other districts that certainly were very close to making it into that group. We are trying to keep it at a reasonable level, but certainly the 17th District, the 16th District recently has had a little spike in violent crime, although it's calmed back down a little bit now. So we have to monitor a lot of the other districts as well, because they're at risk of falling into that category. But those nine that I mention account for 65 percent of the murders last year, about 84 3/12/08 - WHOLE - BILL 080156 64 percent of our robberies, 59 percent of our shootings and so forth. So that's where most of our concentration of violent crime is located.

I know the very first district that you mentioned was the 12th, and both Councilwoman Blackwell and I do represent that part of the City. I have felt for years that the 12th Police District is much, much, much too large. Would you agree with me? COMMISSIONER RAMSEY: Well, what we're doing right now is, we're looking at all the districts in the City and our sectors. Our sectors have not been totally reviewed on a citywide basis since the 1960s, I'm told. So we're looking not only at the size of districts, but also sectors, and we're looking at our deployment to make sure we have sufficient resources in each of the districts to deal with the crime that's taking place, also taking into account 85 3/12/08 - WHOLE - BILL 080156 the number of people who are not available for duty on any given day so that we have actual numbers when we're looking at our strength. We're taking all those things into account. We will be looking at district boundaries. We're looking at sector boundaries now. I'm not familiar enough, to be honest with you, to tell you which districts may be too big or too small, but I do know that we need to have some adjustments made, and we'll work with the Council and we'll work with others in order to make sure that those changes make sense. But it's really important that we deploy properly within the districts, whatever those boundaries are, to make sure we have sufficient resources to deal with the issues.

Thank you very much.

Can I have a point of information, Council President? 86 3/12/08 - WHOLE - BILL 080156

Yes. The Chair recognizes Councilwoman Miller.

Thank you. Good afternoon, Commissioner. COMMISSIONER RAMSEY: Good afternoon.

Can you name the nine districts again? COMMISSIONER RAMSEY: Yes, ma'am. 12, 14, 15, 18, 19, 22, 25, 35, 39.

Oh, okay. All right. Thank you. I just wanted to make sure you said 14, 35 and 39, unfortunately. Thank you.

Thank you very much, Commissioner. I am confident that you're going to do an excellent, excellent job. And I see that every Councilmember has his or her light on. So we're going to go back to the first round five minutes, second 87 3/12/08 - WHOLE - BILL 080156 round, for as long as you'd like to take. And somebody laughed at me for doing that, and when we were in court this morning, the President Judge had exactly -- she didn't have an egg timer like I have, but she did have a clicker. So we're going to follow through on this. The first one to be called will be Councilman Goode.

Thank you, Madam President. Good afternoon, Commissioner. COMMISSIONER RAMSEY: Good afternoon.

Welcome again, and congratulations on your early success. I have only a few questions, because I feel safer when all of you are on the street and are at work. As I say congratulations on the statistics, I am also interested in the raw numbers, if you have the raw numbers available, in terms of homicides and shootings. We're used to hearing those 88 3/12/08 - WHOLE - BILL 080156 in terms of the raw numbers rather than percentages. I'm interested in how many homicides there were in the first two months of this year. COMMISSIONER RAMSEY: Well, as of today, we have 53 homicides as of today compared to 74 this time last year.

Okay. And shootings? COMMISSIONER RAMSEY: The number of shootings I'll defer to -- I'll have to give you the exact number of shootings. It's showing a decrease, however, but I'll give you the exact number of shootings, sir. I'll have that before it's over.

And do you keep data -- I'm assuming you do -- related to homicides and shootings on both victims and perpetrators? COMMISSIONER RAMSEY: Yes, we do. I can give you the numbers on the guns here in a moment, if you give me 89 3/12/08 - WHOLE - BILL 080156 a chance to dissect this. The number of shooting victims so far this year is 189 compared to 246 the year before, for a percent 6 decline. The number of shooting 7 incidents, 259 so far this year compared 8 to 324, 19 percent reduction. 9

So you keep 10 information, data, on victims and 11 perpetrators in both homicides and 12 shootings. I'd be interested -- I don't 13 know if you have it here, but I'm 14 interested in whether the Council can 15 receive periodic updates related to age, 16 race, gender, geography and education 17 level. 18 COMMISSIONER RAMSEY: We can 19 certainly provide that to you, sir. 20

Thank you 21 very much. 22 Thank you, Madam President. 23

You're welcome. The Chair recognizes Councilman 90 3/12/08 - WHOLE - BILL 080156 Kelly.

Thank you, Madam Chair. Good afternoon. COMMISSIONER RAMSEY: Good afternoon, sir.

I just want to -- first of all, I want to commend you on your hitting the ground running as far as respect to your plans in combatting crime in Philadelphia. I think it's commendable. And I think like any plan, it has to be adequately funded, and I think that's what we're here today, to make sure that you have the tools and the resources to do the job that I know you're dedicated to do. I just had a question. There's two major roads in Philadelphia that were patrolled by Philadelphia Police, and that's I-95 and I-76, and I was just wondering now that the State Police has taken over the responsibility of patrolling those highways, whatever 91 3/12/08 - WHOLE - BILL 080156 happened or how did you reassign the policemen that were patrolling those roads, and could you tell me how many there were? COMMISSIONER RAMSEY: As of now, sir, the individuals that were actually patrolling the highways, 53, if my memory serves me correct from the information I received earlier, have been reassigned and they're patrolling the boulevards and other surface streets where we've had a lot of traffic problems. Whether or not that will remain permanent or not, I'm in the process of looking at every unit in the Department, specialized unit in particular, to find out whether or not, one, they're staffed at a level where they ought to be staffed, do we even need them or should they be better suited in the districts. All units are subject to that kind of scrutiny, including that particular unit. So that's not to say that plans are to get rid of them. The 92 3/12/08 - WHOLE - BILL 080156 plan is to take a look and review to make sure that we have adequate coverage, and certainly traffic control is a big part of what we do, including --

Is that where most of them were placed or reassigned? COMMISSIONER RAMSEY: To the boulevards and other surface streets where we've had traffic problems. We've got another problem in the City obviously, and that's just traffic flow in general where we actually need traffic control at some intersections. So looking to find out what are those critical intersections where we can have consistent presence and really pull traffic and make things work a lot better. I mean, I've been stuck myself in traffic on occasion coming downtown. So I realize it's a problem. People blocking the box, things like that that are all solvable problems, but you have to have somebody there in order to 93 3/12/08 - WHOLE - BILL 080156 do it. Let me say that that doesn't necessarily have to be a sworn. It could be a civilian, although I realize there are other issues involved in that, but there are cities that actually use traffic control aides to help further that as well. So I think we have to look at all possibilities to keep our officers where they're needed the most doing what they were hired to do, and that's perform sworn functions.

Well, coming from the Northeast, I find I fight traffic almost every day coming from that section of the City. I just noticed that your strategic crime-fighting plan required the district commanders to formulate their own plan in regard to their respective districts. COMMISSIONER RAMSEY: Yes.

Have you had 94 3/12/08 - WHOLE - BILL 080156 a chance to review those plans? COMMISSIONER RAMSEY: Those plans --

And, if so, what did you think about them? COMMISSIONER RAMSEY: Those plans were submitted, sir, about a week ago. Deputy Commissioner Fox has them now and she's giving the initial review. I should get them by the end of the week to take a look. They were drafts, but my understanding is they look pretty good based on the crime problems. I have been impressed with the level of understanding of the crime problems that captains have in general. So I'm looking forward to reading those plans. But the point is not just to get a plan on paper. It's to actually implement and execute the plan and make sure that every member of that district knows it. So they'll be reduced to pocket size, so that every single police 95 3/12/08 - WHOLE - BILL 080156 officer knows here are the problems, here are the issues, here are the strategies that we're going to be using to deal with it, and here are the goals as a district that we're setting for ourselves in terms of crime reduction and enhanced public safety. That's the whole mission, the whole goal, everybody being on the same page.

Okay. Do you foresee any changes in changing any ranks within the Department? COMMISSIONER RAMSEY: That I haven't had a chance to look at. I'm in the process now and I'll be starting next week, as a matter of fact, interviewing some of my more senior staff, having personal individual time, the Deputy Commissioners, Chief Inspectors, Inspectors. That schedule is being formulated now to start getting a better sense and feel, although I have over the last couple months come to appreciate the skills and abilities of many of the 96 3/12/08 - WHOLE - BILL 080156 staff. I haven't looked at rank specifically to see whether or not we have too many ranks, could eliminate ranks, whatever. That I have not done. I've been looking at the existing rank structure as it currently exists. (Bell rung.)

I just have one other quick question, Madam Chair, if I can. Just squeeze it in. I noticed that you decided to ride in a marked police car.

I don't think I said yes or no. 16

I beat you to the punch. Thank you, Madam Chair. I appreciate it. I notice that you're riding in a marked police car. COMMISSIONER RAMSEY: Yes.

Did you ask any of your commanders to do likewise to add to the police presence on the streets? 97 3/12/08 - WHOLE - BILL 080156 COMMISSIONER RAMSEY: The commanders, the district commanders, will be in marked cars pretty soon. I prefer being in uniform. I like riding in a marked car. I did the entire time I was in the District. That's what I did. I enjoy being a policeman and don't mind showing it. And so I've done it, and I expect others to follow suit. I'm a little disappointed that some didn't take the initiative on their own to do it, but that's okay. That's why we have a ranked structure, and I'm not afraid to tell folks what they need to do. So district commanders will be in marked cars in very short period of time.

Thank you, Commissioner. Thank you, Madam Chair. I appreciate it.

You're welcome, sir. Councilman Greenlee.

Thank 98 3/12/08 - WHOLE - BILL 080156 you, Madam President. Good afternoon, everyone, Commissioner. COMMISSIONER RAMSEY: Good afternoon.

Going back to the nine most violent districts, just one other question on that. Not surprisingly when you announced those districts, we heard from some people, particularly in those districts, there might be a tenth and eleventh, that the concern that you, I think, touched on on a slightly different subject, that when there's concentration in certain districts, they're going to -- the bad guys, if you will, will move to another district. What is a usual time frame when you start looking at those stats again to see if maybe you need to make some readjustments that what I just described happened, where one district went down but another one went significantly up? 99 3/12/08 - WHOLE - BILL 080156 COMMISSIONER RAMSEY: Councilman, we'll be looking at our crime numbers on a daily basis, but we'll be having formal meetings on a weekly basis taking a look at our trends and patterns and making adjustments as needed. I fully expect to have to make adjustments in the Crime Plan, especially as it relates to deployment. A plan is just that, it's just a projection of what you anticipate taking place, fully understanding the need for flexibility. So it's easy for me to say today that all of the graduated recruits in April will go to the nine districts. Between now and April, there may be a need for a tenth district or an eleventh district because of a change in a pattern or trend. We'll be open and flexible to that. The bottom line is, as they say, putting cops on the dots, putting people where they're needed the most to be effective in fighting crime is the goal, but those nine right now are our 100 3/12/08 - WHOLE - BILL 080156 priority.

Okay. Thank you. One other question. When there's those unfortunate situations where there are shootings by police officers, in the other cities you have been in or just from what you've seen here so far, one of the criticisms that we've heard -- and I'm not saying it's valid or not. One of the criticisms are that it takes in some cases an inordinate amount of time to come out with some kind of finding, some kind of decision. And we're certainly in no way arguing for a rush to judgment. I can think of one case where it seemed to take -- I don't know if it's completed yet, but I think it's been a year before there's been a decision. Is there, in your opinion, a general -- I know every situation is different, but a general time frame where you say at least by this time there 101 3/12/08 - WHOLE - BILL 080156 should be, whether it's three months, six months, nine months, a decision made, in fairness to all concerned? COMMISSIONER RAMSEY: Councilman, it is a case-by-case basis, but I agree with you, it does take too long, and it takes long because of the process that has to be followed. We have an administrative process that is followed in terms of what we do internally. But a lot of the delay is due to the fact that these cases have to be reviewed by the District Attorney's Office, and they will sit there sometimes for a period of time that's beyond what we would like to see. However, until there's a declination or they tell us that they're going to move forward with prosecution, then we have to stand fast, the reason being because of a court decision that was made that impacts law enforcement around the country. Any information that's gleaned from an administrative investigation cannot be 102 3/12/08 - WHOLE - BILL 080156 used as part of a criminal prosecution should that happen. So we only take it to a certain extent until we know one way or the other which way the DA's Office is going to go. The problem with it is that it does take a long time, and it directly impacts public confidence. And you can have a situation where you have a shooting and there was nothing improper about the shooting at all, but because it takes so long, that for people from the outside looking and not understanding the process, well, something must be wrong. We should have some kind of resolution to these things in as short a period of time as possible and, quite frankly, I think a year is way too long. I think that it doesn't take that long to determine whether or not you're going to move forward or not move forward with the prosecution. It certainly shouldn't take us that long to decide internally whether or not it was a violation of policy, 103 3/12/08 - WHOLE - BILL 080156 procedures or whatever, and whatever action needs to be taken needs to be taken. So I don't disagree with you, and I would like to see it shortened. I had the same problem in the District with the U.S. Attorney's Office. It is not uncommon.

Okay. All right. We're certainly on the same page there. Thank you very much, Commissioner. COMMISSIONER RAMSEY: Thank you.

Thank you, Madam President.

You're welcome. The Chair recognizes Councilman Rizzo.

Thank you, Madam President. Commissioner, you talked about the Aviation Fund that supports the 155 104 3/12/08 - WHOLE - BILL 080156 officers that work at Philadelphia International Airport, and they do a great job, by the way, and first impressions count. Many people come to Philadelphia for the first time and they see a quality group of men and women that represent our City. But in preparation for casinos, I'm thinking about a similar concept where the casino industry support officers, because the officers that work at the Airport are committed there. They are absolutely -- other issues could occur in the City and pretty much unless it's an overtime issue, they're there. I'd like to start early while we have the Police Department starting to evaluate what the actual need would be, because that community could really be affected if people start to do things that aren't proper. So the concept is similar to the Airport, that we create a fund that is supported by the industry, that those 105 3/12/08 - WHOLE - BILL 080156 officers would be committed to that community, to patrol that community and not leave that community. Councilman Clarke is giving me a little bit of information, which I appreciate. But that concept I believe could work there if it hasn't -- Councilman Clarke is telling me that's already something in the pipeline, but I'd like to make sure that in fact it is. I know it's his district, but it is also mine.

Also mine. COMMISSIONER RAMSEY: Sir, I agree with you. I think that that's going to have a significant impact on our resources. We need to take into consideration the impact that's going to have both in terms of traffic, security and other types of issues. We have talked internally, although we don't have anything in writing or definitive yet about an entertainment district, much 106 3/12/08 - WHOLE - BILL 080156 like Center City type of situation where you've got officers that are dedicated to doing this. The funding stream ought to be coming from the industry itself to offset the cost to the City, and those numbers would be carried just like the Aviation Unit, over and above our authorized strength, so that we're not borrowing from districts. The worst thing, in my opinion, we could do is pull from neighborhoods that are in need of police protection to move them into these other areas. We need to account for that early on, get sufficient resources so that we can move forward and not have that problem.

And I think what you just said, getting it moving early on, because I think we're going to need some support from Harrisburg, get some of our local legislators to be supportive of that also. So it's good that that's on your drawing board, because I'd be interested to see what 107 3/12/08 - WHOLE - BILL 080156 they believe would be the number of officers, and maybe we could figure out a way to pay for them so they don't -- and I agree with you totally, the minute we lose an officer from a district that can't answer a 9-1-1 call, that is not a good thing. COMMISSIONER RAMSEY: Thank you, sir.

Thank you, Commissioner. Good luck to you and your team. COMMISSIONER RAMSEY: Thank you.

Thank you. The Chair recognizes Councilman Clarke.

Thank you, Madam President. Good afternoon. COMMISSIONER RAMSEY: Good afternoon, sir.

108 3/12/08 - WHOLE - BILL 080156 Commissioner, first I want to thank you for designating your top brass for attending this morning's hearing in Commonwealth Court. They were very well recognized, and I think it will play a large role in letting the six-judge panel understand the nature of the issue. A couple of quick questions, and I think I'm going to need to come back, because I know we have a five-minute limit. With respect to your statistics in your testimony, it implies that the new strategy as it relates to the implementation of crime reduction, particularly in the first couple of months, have -- we've recognized or realized a reduction in the primary statistics of violent crimes relating to guns, homicides. Do you totally attribute that to the new strategy or do you feel that it is possibly a continuation of what we saw in the last quarter of last year? Because if my 109 3/12/08 - WHOLE - BILL 080156 recollection is correct, I do recall a substantial decrease. COMMISSIONER RAMSEY: It's probably a combination of both. It's too soon to say what, if any, impact a particular part of a strategy has on crime. I've got a lot of experience in this area, and there are some things you can do that you can almost immediately see some results, but to what extent that has versus a trend that's in longer duration, I really don't know, but I'm willing to take part of the credit for it, since I'd be getting part of the blame for it if it was going in the opposite direction.

In these jobs -- COMMISSIONER RAMSEY: So I enjoy it while I can.

-- whenever anything goes well, you take the credit, because you're going to get the blame for it if it doesn't, trust me. 110 3/12/08 - WHOLE - BILL 080156 COMMISSIONER RAMSEY: I enjoy it while I can.

All right. Commissioner, to better give us a sense -- and I'm hoping obviously that these numbers continue to drop. COMMISSIONER RAMSEY: Yes.

It would be helpful if you can provide through the Chair the statistics in the last quarter of calendar year '07 and similarly the statistics as it relates to '08 so we can kind of ourselves get a sense of the trends as it relates to those numbers, because my recollection is that those numbers were going down, just off the top of my head. COMMISSIONER RAMSEY: I can do that, sir. I'd be more than happy to provide you with that. Once thing I would like to mention, when you're making comparisons of crime stats, the most effective way is looking at year-to-year comparisons, because a lot of crime is 111 3/12/08 - WHOLE - BILL 080156 seasonal in nature and taking blocks of time where you're looking and you've got different factors present, it's not always the best way of looking at it. So a year to year, what happened this time last year versus this year and so forth and so on. But we'll provide you with that, plus the other information.

Thank you for correcting me, because that's actually what I also intended to ask before. The last quarter of '06 also, so I can do a better analysis of that. COMMISSIONER RAMSEY: Yes, sir.

Thank you. Commissioner, I hear you talking about, in not any level of detail, about possibly restructuring some of the districts, and I know that issue came up possibly two, three years ago, but was more relating to the resources associated with the ability to pay, particularly as it related to the command structure, and it was actually a proposal 112 3/12/08 - WHOLE - BILL 080156 that was put in place to restructure the districts and it would lessen the number of higher echelon of command structure. Was that analysis done on that or is this a new proposal that you're looking at or possibly looking at? COMMISSIONER RAMSEY: Well, I mean, it's new, but obviously you go back and you look at all previous plans and reports that were generated, because a lot of them are still relevant. I'm more interested, quite frankly, in the sector boundaries than I am district boundaries at this point in time. I think that our real problem right now is in the sector concept as it currently exists. It's 40-some-odd years old, if not older. When you look at one of our maps, it's very difficult to even see what's going on, because you've got so many sectors, it's impossible to staff them all. So we need to really take a strong look at that, and we will take a strong look at that. 113 3/12/08 - WHOLE - BILL 080156 Moving an actual district boundary, however, is a little more difficult in a lot of ways, and that to me is secondary to the sector issue that I just described. So we're going to start off by looking at the sectors, by merging some of the sectors, by changing our deployment strategy within those sectors and so forth. And we'll also take a look and if there's something obvious around a district boundary, then certainly I'm open to that, but right now the focus is on sectors.

Is there any potential for any overlap in sectors -- COMMISSIONER RAMSEY: There could be. (Bell rung.)

And I agree with you -- Madam President, since I started the question, can I finish it? Thank you. 114 3/12/08 - WHOLE - BILL 080156

Very well.

We have a tough boss, too, as you know. As you look at and analyze the sectors, and you said you'll be willing to look at the districts, but the question is, is there any overlap in terms of the sectors versus the districts? Because I know, frankly speaking, some of the district lines are somewhat antiquated. The demographics have changed so much in the City of Philadelphia. COMMISSIONER RAMSEY: There could be. There are always changes in demographics, patterns of call for service, all those kinds of things. So when you've got those kinds of glaring problems that you may find during the course of looking at the sectors, we see something in the district that needs to be corrected, yeah, the time to do it would be then. 115 3/12/08 - WHOLE - BILL 080156 But you won't read about it in the newspaper. If it's something that affects your particular area, we'll sit down with you and explain the rationale behind it and work together on that.

Okay. I look forward to actually having a one-on-one with you so we can kind of talk about ideas. COMMISSIONER RAMSEY: Thank you.

Thank you, sir. Thank you, Madam President.

You're welcome. The Chair recognizes Councilman Green.

Thank you, Madam Chair. Commissioner, it's a pleasure to have you here and I'm excited about the energy and some of the new ideas you're bringing to the City of 116 3/12/08 - WHOLE - BILL 080156 Philadelphia. One of the things that you talked about, you have talked about publicly, which I fully support, is the working conditions for police officers. And you, I think, were quite upset when you saw the working conditions of the police officers, as reported by KYW about a month ago. Are you satisfied with the $16.5 million that you mentioned in your testimony of capital money for improving working conditions for police officers? COMMISSIONER RAMSEY: It's a start, Councilman, but it's certainly not all that's needed. We had an estimate that I believe $47 million in order to really bring them up to speed, but realistically, we aren't the only agency in need of upgrades in facilities, so I think that having a multi-year capital improvement plan that makes sense so we can start to make some of the corrections that we need to make, people will see that's taking place. I think that's a 117 3/12/08 - WHOLE - BILL 080156 morale booster, in and of itself. I had a similar situation in the District with facilities, and we did take a five-year approach to our correcting it. It is a significant step forward, but we do need that money at a minimum because the conditions are appalling in some of these facilities. There's no other way of describing it. And we have to do something, and it is going to require more than just patchwork in some cases.

Yeah. In fact, the PICA report, which went through the Police facilities, suggested that what would be needed in year one was about and a half million dollars year 19 one for capital spending in the Police 20 Department. 21 COMMISSIONER RAMSEY: Yes. 22

And you're getting 16.5. And then in the Five-Year Plan, as you mentioned, the PICA report suggested $47 million was needed, and the 118 3/12/08 - WHOLE - BILL 080156 total allocation if you exclude IT is about $25 million. Can I ask you how much you requested for this year and for each fiscal year from the Administration for improving working conditions of police officers? COMMISSIONER RAMSEY: I'll have to defer on that one. I don't know what we requested. DEPUTY COMMISSIONER GAITTENS: Yes, sir. Over the years, we've been continuously asking for capital funds. As you know, we've been greatly underfunded for many years now. Looking at the amounts requested, you're absolutely right. In the PICA assessment, they said 816,000 was for immediate life and safety and then the other 21 and a half million was for work to be continued within one year. So it is close to $22,367,000. The problem that we come into is scheduling that work to be done all at 119 3/12/08 - WHOLE - BILL 080156 the same time. There's a certain amount of vendors, the amount of work that Public Property can schedule all at one time. So would it be nice to get to 6 25 million this year? Absolutely. It 7 would be great. However, we couldn't 8 schedule all that work to be done, so 9 allocating that much money and not being 10 able to spend it really wouldn't make 11 sense. I think it will be a push to 12 spend 16 and a half million, but I would 13 sure like to give it a good effort. 14

Sure. Could 15 you also talk about the difference 16 between 25 million over the six-year 17 capital budget actually versus the 47 18 million that PICA says is needed, and 19 should we expect additional requests for 20 capital spending after the 16 million is 21 spent that's in between -- you have $9 22 million in the out five years, when approximately 30 million is necessary, according to the PICA report. COMMISSIONER RAMSEY: We need 120 3/12/08 - WHOLE - BILL 080156 to bring these facilities up to standards. Some, in my opinion, could actually be either torn down or we move out and rebuild another facility. If 47 million is what's estimated, then 47 million is what we need. I would argue that with the cost of labor and everything else going up, it probably will exceed that at some point in time. But the facilities are not going to heal themselves. They have no 13 such power. So every year that we delay, the numbers just simply go up. So we've got some facilities that are really in poor condition, Headquarters certainly being one, but I'd rather wait and fix Headquarters at the end, to take care of our troops first out there in the field and get them squared away, then we worry about the Headquarters building. (Bell rung.)

Thank you. Could you please provide the Chair with what your actual requests were 121 3/12/08 - WHOLE - BILL 080156 for capital spending for facilities improvement, for working conditions for police officers, and also whether or not you agree with PICA's assessment of $47 million and the priorities they've set versus the priorities the Police Department set. Thank you.

The Chair recognizes Councilman Jones.

I join my colleagues in congratulating you and welcoming you to the City of Philadelphia. I had an opportunity to attend one of the public meetings that you had in Penn Memorial, and there was standing room only to talk about some of the issues related to crime. So welcome on board. My colleagues did a real good job of asking a lot of the questions that I had, but I do have a question from the guys at the barber shop I go to, most of whom are law-abiding citizens, but they 122 3/12/08 - WHOLE - BILL 080156 do want to know. Can you explain to us your more aggressive stop and frisk versus what already is a right that patrolmen have to stop people on the street? Can you kind of define for us what the salient differences are? COMMISSIONER RAMSEY: Yes, Councilman. There really is no real difference. The media has made quite an issue of stop and frisk. When I first went through a police academy in 1968, one of the courses that we had dealt with Terry stops or stop and frisk issues. It's not new. Officers do it every day, have been engaged in that activity every day. If there is a difference with the fact that we're putting higher concentrations of officers in our more troubled areas, then you may have areas in which the numbers of people being stopped may increase slightly. However, one of the things that 123 3/12/08 - WHOLE - BILL 080156 we're in the process of doing now is training our officers to know under what circumstances is it permissible to actually conduct that type of field interrogation and a stop and frisk, where it applies, reasonable suspicion and so forth, and also by putting more officers in the field and having continuity of assignment, learning who the decent, law-abiding citizens are in a given area versus those people that every time you see them, you need to be stopping them because they're part of the problem and they're usually carrying guns and so forth. So you need to be able to make that distinction. What we don't want to do is alienate the very community that we're here to serve, and that's our decent, law-abiding residents and visitors here in the City of Philadelphia. So we're working very hard to make sure that we don't have problems as 124 3/12/08 - WHOLE - BILL 080156 a result of that. But it's not a new concept. Officers have been doing it, will continue to do it. There is a form that's made out whenever you make a pedestrian stop that's made out, and, again, we emphasize that it will be made out in its entirety so that we can capture data if we need to, but to make sure that it's done in a way that's very professional.

Also from the barber shop, the follow-up to that is that a lot of the searching, has there ever been an exploration as to the wands as you came in City Council? I probably would imagine you didn't have to go through the metal detector, but they use wands, hand-held wands, to determine whether people have metallic objects on them. Has there been any study to look at whether we could use those kinds of techniques as opposed to sometimes more invasive kinds of searches? 125 3/12/08 - WHOLE - BILL 080156 COMMISSIONER RAMSEY: Well, stop and frisk is a pat down in outer garments for weapons only, is what it actually is. It's not a strip search or anything like that.

I'm aware. COMMISSIONER RAMSEY: It's feeling for bulges and for guns and things of that nature. It would be quite expensive to try to arm everyone with a wand that you would use for that. I think for a more extensive search going into a venue like this or some other place where you have controlled access, that's where it's appropriate. But having thousands of officers each with that, I don't think would be in our best interest to even try to do that. It would just -- the cost would be prohibitive, and I don't know if we would gain all that much by it. We also have a course that we're again going over with our officers that will assist them in identifying 126 3/12/08 - WHOLE - BILL 080156 people that may be carrying a gun. And there is an art to it, the way in which the clothing hangs on the body, the emotions and all that sort of thing.

It's my understanding -- I don't mean to interrupt you, but my five minutes I know is almost up. Isn't there technology through cameras also that can identify the traits of people who are carrying firearms? COMMISSIONER RAMSEY: I don't know about that, sir. I think a camera just sees -- you have to interpret what you're looking at. There are some officers that just have a knack for being able to identify a person that might be carrying. But the bottom line is, if we know who the troublemakers are, who the people are that normally carry versus residents, that's the group that we want to target, the troublemakers, the people who are out here shooting and robbing and 127 3/12/08 - WHOLE - BILL 080156 doing all those kinds of things, causing harm to the community. Those people we will be stopping and we'll be stopping them on a regular basis.

Commissioner, I wish you a lot of luck with that, but a lot of the guys in that barber shop look just like the guys that are the troublemakers, and making that subtle distinction is important so that we don't have college students also being -- COMMISSIONER RAMSEY: Well, that's all part of it, too, sir. (Bell rung.) COMMISSIONER RAMSEY: And, again, that comes from knowing who it is you're dealing with. Every youngster that wears baggy pants isn't part of a problem. I mean, it's just a style, is all it is, and we need to make those distinctions, and we will make those distinctions.

Thank you. 128 3/12/08 - WHOLE - BILL 080156

The Chair recognizes Councilwoman Miller.

Thank you, Madam President. Good afternoon again, Commissioner Ramsey. COMMISSIONER RAMSEY: Good afternoon.

I'd like to just start off by saying I want to commend you on how you handled the people and responded to the questions at the town meetings. You could tell -- COMMISSIONER RAMSEY: Thank you.

-- you're used to dealing with people, because some of the questions were a little bit wild. I just wanted to know a couple things. When you talk about the targeted enforcement zones within the City's nine most violent districts, last week I read in the paper that there were like several drug raids and people were arrested. Is 129 3/12/08 - WHOLE - BILL 080156 that now sort of the kind of thing that you'll be doing in those targeted enforcement zones? COMMISSIONER RAMSEY: Well, I mean, that's part of what goes on, but I'd also just to kind of clear up something that I think is not totally accurate, we can have a target enforcement zone outside of the nine districts, and we'll certainly be conducting drug raids outside of the nine districts. So whereas we're putting a higher priority in those nine districts, we're not doing it at the expense of the other 14. But, yes, we will be taking a look. Warrant service, narcotic raids if narcotics is an issue there, all those kinds of things will be part of it.

I never thought that you would ignore the other nine districts -- I mean, the other districts in the City, but I thought that last week when I read it, I know that there were two arrests from drug corners 130 3/12/08 - WHOLE - BILL 080156 and maybe three within my district, and I thought that was really good. And I know that we've arrested people before in districts, but I just thought that that may have been some special part of or a part of the targeted enforcement zone activities. COMMISSIONER RAMSEY: And it is, ma'am. It is.

Okay. And is there some reason why COMPSTAT has to be real early in the morning? COMMISSIONER RAMSEY: Well, we do it early in the morning because one of the problems that you have, which is probably a problem that you have, the longer your day goes, the harder it is to stay to a schedule. You're better off scheduling something early where you can get there and get it over with, because if you put it later in the afternoon, things arise, changes in schedule, unscheduled meetings pop up and then you wind up not being able to do what you 131 3/12/08 - WHOLE - BILL 080156 want to do or what you need to do. So we have found it better to be in the morning. People are relatively sharp in the morning, have a cup of coffee and let's get at it and then we got the rest of the day.

Okay. I did come to COMPSTAT once, but I think it was a time that we were on break, like maybe the Thursday before a holiday, because it was a Thursday and you were doing a couple of the districts in my district. But 7:00 a.m. is rather early, and I don't think that a lot of Councilmembers have been because it's really not just a convenient time to get all the way up to State Road, except for people that live up in that area. COMMISSIONER RAMSEY: Ma'am, if I may real quickly, 8:00 a.m. is when it starts, but we also have started something new that's at 10:00 a.m. which may be more convenient. Those nine districts that I mentioned earlier, we're 132 3/12/08 - WHOLE - BILL 080156 having weekly sessions with them on Tuesdays and Thursdays primarily -- or Tuesdays and Wednesdays primarily, where we take an hour, hour and a half and we go through their crime trends and patterns in numbers. So that may be -- and you're more than welcome to come to one of those if you'd like, and that's down at the PAB.

That's down at 8th and Race? COMMISSIONER RAMSEY: Yes; 10 o'clock.

Oh, okay. That's much more convenient. Yeah, I would like to come, because I did like the COMPSTAT visit and I learned a lot and I'd like to go back again, but the time is not good for me anyway. Okay. On the second page of your testimony you say that the homicide clearance rate is at 89. What is the homicide -- what is clearance rate? What does that mean? 133 3/12/08 - WHOLE - BILL 080156 COMMISSIONER RAMSEY: Well, clearance rates are the number of cases that have been closed, homicide cases that have been closed. They could be closed through arrest. They can be closed through exceptional means. An example of exceptional means would be an individual who is already in custody on another crime. You know that person is there. You can technically close the case, although they could always be rearrested for that particular crime. Sometimes the offender dies, and that's another exceptional clearance. It's actually 90 percent, 90 and a half percent as of today. But it not only takes into account cases from this year, previous year closures are counted in that, just like a previous year could be counted as a homicide if a ruling from the Medical Examiner comes in this year. It's within the year in which either the ruling or the arrest is made. (Bell rung.) 134 3/12/08 - WHOLE - BILL 080156

I don't think I get a full five minutes. Okay. Thank you. Thank you. COMMISSIONER RAMSEY: Thank you, ma'am.

The Chair recognizes Councilman O'Neill.

Thank you, Madam President. Good afternoon, Commissioner. COMMISSIONER RAMSEY: Good afternoon.

I just want to just go over something we talked a few months ago before you were sworn in, and, that is, I support 100 percent what you're doing, the nine districts, even though you don't affect my district at all. Anybody with half a head on their shoulder would know you're attacking our biggest problem, the violent crime, the area that has to be our highest priority. However, we've discussed some other areas of the City 135 3/12/08 - WHOLE - BILL 080156 that I represent that are so underserved by your department, and I don't think it's just my opinion. I think the numbers speak for themselves, that at some point in Mayor Nutter's Administration and your administration in the Department, we have to find a way to give service to the people that aren't getting it. A couple things came to mind that -- so I'm not going to repeat a lot of the things we talked about, because I'm not trying to make a record. I think it's pretty clear that you understood it. I was telling you when we were talking that I believe a lot of crimes don't get reported. I'm not talking about the violent stuff. That all gets reported. You got real good statistics on violent crime. But the quality of life stuff, the suburban type crime, if people get told time and again that it took eight hours on a Friday night for somebody to come by and then they find 136 3/12/08 - WHOLE - BILL 080156 out on Monday it was recorded as unfounded, you're usually not going to get a second call from that person. People tend to respond in a human way. m. m. So they're not there. Is there any analysis of unfounded crimes, crimes marked unfounded, that don't get into our statistic system? I'm not talking about the people that don't call, because you have no way of knowing that. If someone called, we can trust they're a good citizen, there was a crime going on or something going on that seemed like a crime, was put into the system, dispatched, it was too low a priority for 137 3/12/08 - WHOLE - BILL 080156 the number of officers out there. And when you have a super delayed, unbelievably slow response time, like seven or eight hours, I think we can expect most crimes to be unfounded. Do we at least have an analysis of what -- because I consider that a crime for statistical purposes if it wasn't there eight hours later. We have to trust the person actually saw something that called in. Are we doing anything there? Because I think that at least will be a start in terms of getting a good record of what is going on at the busiest times in the 7th, 8th, top of the 2nd Districts as I described. I mean, if you took the manpower that's out there now and put it in the same geographical area in Bucks County, we'd have a lot of police departments that wouldn't have any officers on the street. I mean, there just wouldn't be a police department there. And it's not like they're super 138 3/12/08 - WHOLE - BILL 080156 sized and they just have police officers flying around Bensalem and all the other places. But we are so per capita per call understaffed that I just want to ask you in public about that. Not specifically this thing, but I hope you can get back to me on that and whether there's something we can do in analyzing the unfounded calls where there's a distance in time between the call and the police car coming by. But do you have any plan or thinking long term, maybe not even in this budget year, but where we're going to rethink as a department how we treat calls for service instead of using a 50-year-old model of Part 1 crimes, assign police officers, then the priority goes to how many police officers you have. I mean, I have trouble telling people it's called low priority. It doesn't mean it's a low priority for the Department. It is a low priority because 139 3/12/08 - WHOLE - BILL 080156 we know there won't be a police officer that gets to it if there's only X number of officers on the street and the call load is so high. What's your thought on that?

I know it's not just those areas I mentioned. There's plenty of parts of the City that match that situation. COMMISSIONER RAMSEY: Well, sir, you do raise a good issue, and one of the things we can do is take a closer look at some of the cases that are unfounded if there seems to be a long time between the call and the time the call was actually dispatched. ) COMMISSIONER RAMSEY: In the example you used, an assault in progress, that would not be a low priority if there's a physical assault taking place at that moment. But there are --

Commissioner, I have to stop you. You don't know how many calls I've had from 140 3/12/08 - WHOLE - BILL 080156 people that have described what I would think was an assault, but unless they use certain words -- I mean, when there's baseball bats involved and it's not being set up as an assault -- and I can show you Town Watch people. And this is this past summer. It's not far away. Four o'clock in the morning, it wasn't an assault in the books, but it's an unfounded crime that somebody doing some analysis may see that it was. You're not going to find too many assaults that are unfounded. So if you see something that is a physical crime going on as the report came in -- because when there's a quick response, the citizen should get in trouble if it's an unfounded crime, and we've expended manpower and prioritized the call to get there. I don't think that's our problem. I think it is the code words that people are told. Second time you might want to use -- and sometimes they go overboard. In other words, they're describing 141 3/12/08 - WHOLE - BILL 080156 something much worse than it is, because they've been let in on the secret of how to get -- how to describe something, get an officer out there. It shouldn't have to go down to that. So any analysis you can do in this area I would appreciate, because I do think we're causing our own numbers to be low. COMMISSIONER RAMSEY: Well, one thing about our system, it is recorded, and what we need if we've got a situation where police did not respond and a person called the police and it's as serious as an assault or something else where police should have been dispatched, we can pull that tape and we can find out exactly what was said and why police weren't dispatched. I mean, getting a lot of anecdotal things later on is not real helpful, because there's nothing to really check and make sure that people are doing things appropriately. But I 142 3/12/08 - WHOLE - BILL 080156 think what you're doing is really making an argument for 3-1-1 as much as 9-1-1. We do have to have a non-emergency system for less serious offenses where the expectation of immediate police response is not there. We can enhance our differential response, which means people calling and some reports can be taken by phone. We can even make appointments to come out and see people. If it's going to be a two-hour delay, tell people it will be a couple hours before we can get anybody out there for this particular type of situation. You can do that through a non-emergency number. It's difficult when you're balancing the 9-1-1/3-1-1, but I think you make a strong argument as to why we need 3-1-1. But at the same time, we have to be very vigilant and make sure that officers are responding to calls in a timely fashion and that crime is being recorded accurately and we have a real reflection of what's taking place 143 3/12/08 - WHOLE - BILL 080156 in our city.

Commissioner, one thing I want to let you know, I am not talking about any 3-1-1 situations. In the years I've heard of these stories over and over again. But I will try to get you at least the one where the Town Watch was on site with a baseball bat fight on a Friday night in the summer and it was six hours before it was answered, and these were Town Watch-trained people calling it in. COMMISSIONER RAMSEY: I'm not saying that that hasn't happened on occasion, sir, but I am saying it is not a daily occurrence either. So I think we have to look at these things.

Don't get me wrong. COMMISSIONER RAMSEY: We have to look at these things, and I'll take whatever action is appropriate, but I appreciate knowing when and where, and we can pull those tapes and get to the 144 3/12/08 - WHOLE - BILL 080156 bottom of it.

Point of information.

Mostly it's going to be Friday and Saturday night, but it tends not to happen during the week. The last thing I want to ask you, and, that is, how many officers in the Police Department right now, sworn personnel, are in special units, whatever special units they are? COMMISSIONER RAMSEY: I don't have an exact number, but I can tell you this: We're overspecialized, and that's part of what I'm doing now, is reviewing all of the specialized units and putting as many officers in uniform patrol as possible. I started by dissolving one unit. There will be others that will be looked at and manpower either cut back or dissolved, recruits coming out going right into the uniform patrol. We've allowed ourselves to get off balance, as 145 3/12/08 - WHOLE - BILL 080156 far as I'm concerned, with too few people in uniform patrol, and that's part of what I'm doing now. I have to be careful. I just can't do it in a very loose fashion, because you have to understand the consequences of cutting back. It's not that they aren't doing anything. It's simply a question of priorities, and if you cut one unit, then you need to fully understand what the consequences of fewer people there, because then we'll be having a hearing saying you need more people in handling domestic violence or you need more people handling whatever. So I've got look at all those things, but we can cut back on specialized units.

Is it fair to say, listening to you, that patrol is your top priority? COMMISSIONER RAMSEY: Yes.

Thank you. Madam President, thank you.

Point of 146 3/12/08 - WHOLE - BILL 080156 information.

The Chair recognizes Councilman Rizzo for a point of information.

Commissioner, to follow up on what Councilman O'Neill just reported, are you aware that there was a time in our Police Department that supervisors were able just to disregard calls, just erase them from the inbound call-taking screen when they were a number of hours old? Is that policy still in place and what do you think about erasing public calls from our system? COMMISSIONER RAMSEY: Well, I certainly hope it's not still in place. I wasn't aware of that specifically, but I hope it's not, and if it is, I'll change that immediately.

Could you ask somebody? COMMISSIONER RAMSEY: I mean, if there is a call for service, then 147 3/12/08 - WHOLE - BILL 080156 there ought to be some kind of response to that call --

Commissioner -- COMMISSIONER RAMSEY: -- one way or the other. Let me ask now. Is that a policy?

Commissioner, there were media reports where the calls were just erased from the system. COMMISSIONER RAMSEY: Well, what I'm told is a dog barking in the middle of the night and nuisance complaints, those kinds of calls, but not criminal activity.

Commissioner, I've heard of people calling about what Councilman O'Neill just described, quality of life issues, that the police never responded, and the answer to the question was that either the supervisor on the street -- maybe the your Deputy can tell us the process, if 148 3/12/08 - WHOLE - BILL 080156 it still exists, whether it's inside, the Lieutenant or the Supervisor in the radio room, just arbitrarily at the change of a shift can see a job that's two or three hours old and just delete it. COMMISSIONER RAMSEY: Well, let me take a look at that, sir, but, again, let me just say that nuisance complaints that come in versus actual criminal complaints are two totally different things, and we want to use our resources to the best way possible. Even if that is the case, there ought to still be some contact with a complainant to make sure the activity isn't still taking place. I mean, you could have had a call of somebody standing on the corner drinking, let's say, and two hours have passed because it's a busy night. Is he still there? Well, if the answer is no, then there's no point in dispatching, but at least we ought to contact the person to find out is the activity still taking place. 149 3/12/08 - WHOLE - BILL 080156

Commissioner, I remember a very famous case in California when the police were called about a barking dog, the OJ Simpson case. So it was a murder that was -- COMMISSIONER RAMSEY: Councilman, I mean, we could all point to those unusual circumstances.

Well, I'm just giving you an analogy. COMMISSIONER RAMSEY: But in the real world that we deal with on a regular basis, I think we just have to use some reason. We don't always have the ability to immediately respond to a barking dog, but to the extent possible, there ought to be some response by police in some manner, shape or form, call back, actual dispatch, something of that nature, is the activity still taking place, all those kinds of things, and do the best we can to be as responsive as we can. 150 3/12/08 - WHOLE - BILL 080156

So is the answer that we still do that? COMMISSIONER RAMSEY: The answer is I'll have to look into it to the extent that I'm told that there are some cases in which that can be done. My job now is to find out exactly whether or not that's something I'm comfortable with. I used a barking dog as an example because I still think it's a pretty good example, although there could be a case when the barking dog is barking at a burglar. I mean, you just don't know. So we have to take a look at our policy to make sure it's something that is really serving the public in a way in which we want them to be served.

Thank you for considering that. DEPUTY COMMISSIONER GAITTENS: Councilman, if I can throw something out in there. Since Commissioner Ramsey has been in charge, we've been giving him a daily report as to the number of jobs 151 3/12/08 - WHOLE - BILL 080156 cancelled overnight, and there have been zero since Commissioner Ramsey has taken over.

Well, I think that is good to hear, and I think that's also smart. Thank you.

Commissioner, do we have a motorcycle unit? COMMISSIONER RAMSEY: Yes, ma'am.

I'm so happy to hear that. How many do we have? COMMISSIONER RAMSEY: Sixty-three is the number I hear from behind me.

We used to have them and they used to be very, very visible in the communities, and I think we spoke about that a number of times, my colleague and I. And I know that living on Broad Street I would hear the motorcycles on Carlisle Street, as 152 3/12/08 - WHOLE - BILL 080156 would many of the youngsters who were in the community causing a great deal of havoc, and it would cause them to disband and disappear. I haven't seen a motorcycle until this morning when I was coming into City Hall, and driving down Broad Street to see two of them, I thought, could they possibly be ours? I'm delighted to hear that. I think it's something that we've needed for a long time. COMMISSIONER RAMSEY: Well --

And if they've been around, I haven't seen them heretofore. COMMISSIONER RAMSEY: I'll take a look and see how we're using them.

I think they're very, very effective. The Chair at this time recognizes Councilman Green.

Thank you, Madam Chair. 153 3/12/08 - WHOLE - BILL 080156 Commissioner, you may not be aware of this, but over the last 4 years, the City of Philadelphia -- and 5 this is as of last year's budget season. 6 At budget hearings last year, City 7 Council learned over the last 20 years 8 the City of Philadelphia has paid out $88 9 million in arbitration awards for 10 officers that have been disciplined 11 and/or terminated. Most of that $88 12 million is backpay awards. 13 Can you give us any sense as to 14 whether that's an extraordinary number 15 based on your experience in Washington 16 and Chicago? 17 COMMISSIONER RAMSEY: And 18 that's a figure over a 20-year period? 19

Yes. So 20 call it four and a half million a year. COMMISSIONER RAMSEY: I don't know if that's extraordinary or not. There are a lot of -- in both cities that I've served in previously, there's been significant numbers in terms of 154 3/12/08 - WHOLE - BILL 080156 arbitration awards. A lot of it is due to sometimes the arbitrators, quite frankly, that tend to lean more toward the union and management, but some of it is also due to not having cases prepared in a way where we can present them adequately and win the cases. Proper documentation, that's one of the main causes. The way to avoid that is by making sure that you have solid cases before you move forward and that the action you take is consistent with what the union contract calls for and as well as whatever other factors you need to consider so that we're only taking those cases forward where we have strong enough cases to win, and then you won't have -- the numbers won't be as high.

I completely agree, Commissioner, and I would ask you to maybe take your experience from other places and take a look at our policies and how we document files and how we do the things you just discussed, and if you 155 3/12/08 - WHOLE - BILL 080156 could sort of report back to us whether or not our system is okay or our system has been changed as a result of that review. COMMISSIONER RAMSEY: Thank you. I will.

Thank you. Implementation of surveillance cameras, is that a cost avoidance or does that increase the cost of policing? COMMISSIONER RAMSEY: Let me turn to Deputy Commissioner Gaittens for that. DEPUTY COMMISSIONER GAITTENS: Yes, sir. As of right now, the camera budget for the actual equipment itself and the maintenance costs and all of that, that is out of MOIS' budget. That is not Police Department. In Fiscal '09, we have 27 additional civilian positions will be added to our budget for monitoring costs. Additionally, this year there was $1.1 million expended to set up the monitoring 156 3/12/08 - WHOLE - BILL 080156 center in the Police Headquarters Building.

Is there any data that you're aware of regarding whether or not additional police cameras, though, cost or save the police money in operating expense, both in terms of the ability to more quickly, say, capture people who are involved in events than otherwise so that it frees up resources to work on the next less important matter, et cetera, and in terms of deployment of manpower and other things? I'm just curious as to whether or not the implementation of this technology is really cost avoidance and can provide a positive return on investment so that we can look at potentially expanding this program to a much greater extent. DEPUTY COMMISSIONER GAITTENS: I mean, if you look at it from a business standpoint, if you're looking at ROI, I don't think we can put anything down in writing to say that, yes, you'll save X 157 3/12/08 - WHOLE - BILL 080156 number of dollars. However, I can say since the inception of the video surveillance program when we started with our pilot in July of '06, we have utilized the cameras in 97 arrests. Fifty-one were for narcotics, for 8 quality of life, then we have graffiti, 9 theft and robbery. 10 As far as Part 1 crimes, the 11 most recent one was of a Temple student 12 up on North Broad Street at Broad and 13 Susquehanna. We had a limited-duty 14 officer monitoring the cameras and he 15 actually saw the way that the suspects 16 were acting, believing that they were 17 trying to set people up for a robbery, 18 dispatched officers to the scene before 19 the robbery even took place, and then as the Temple student approached, they did surround him, and by the time the officers got on location, a robbery had been committed and the arrests were made. And the best use for the cameras, though, for our purposes are 158 3/12/08 - WHOLE - BILL 080156 forensic purposes, to capture the images so that we can utilize them later in court. And although we haven't had any cases in Philadelphia, in talking to other departments and talking to the City Solicitors and to the attorneys that work for their prosecutions over there, they have told us that when a defense attorney and a suspect is presented with a copy of a DVD and it clearly shows the suspect, they tend to make a plea bargain. So that would save us time going to court and hiring officers and putting officers on overtime for the prosecution. (Bell rung.) DEPUTY COMMISSIONER GAITTENS: And as far as looking at the investigation aspect, if a detective can get an image from a camera and show the suspect vehicle, get a better description of it, see what was going on in the neighborhood, that helps as far as going out and doing the neighborhood canvas and interviewing people. So that will cut 159 3/12/08 - WHOLE - BILL 080156 down on the investigation time. So while I can't put it in writing and say quantitatively this is true, anecdotally I can say absolutely it's worth the investment. Will it ever replace a cop? Absolutely not.

That's not the question, replacing police officers. The question is whether or not it makes the Department more efficient and the police officers we have can actually be deployed differently, better, because of the use of cameras and whether or not it avoids costs in terms of lots of things, and I would suggest to you that perhaps a grant proposal to the Department of Homeland Security to study that question in the City of Philadelphia would be received favorably, because I'm not aware of a study that's been done on a major city police department where they've implemented cameras. And we're somewhat behind other jurisdictions and it may be interesting to get the federal government 160 3/12/08 - WHOLE - BILL 080156 to provide us dollars for a study for that. I think it's something that we would be interested in, and, frankly, many other cities would be interested in that information. Since we're at this early stage, now would be the time to try to get resources to answer that question. Madam President, I heard the bell go off, but I thought our second round was just as many questions as we had.

Oh, I don't think so. We'll have another go-around.

Okay. I thought I heard that in the beginning. I apologize.

No. 20 Sorry. The Chair recognizes Councilwoman Miller.

Thank you, Madam President. Just a couple questions. I 161 3/12/08 - WHOLE - BILL 080156 want to just talk about the homicide clearance rate again. And I understand it's from past years and this year and whatever, but we have a lot of folks that, say, particularly some of the teenage or young men that are killed, that their perpetrators are not arrested or unknown. And it seems to me -- and it may be just because maybe I hear ten people say it. Maybe that sounds like a lot to me, but is that a high figure, that we have not found a lot of these people that have killed some of these younger people? COMMISSIONER RAMSEY: Councilwoman, probably 85, 90 percent of the cases someone knows who is responsible for the death, and in many of those cases, we have heard and believe we know who may be responsible for the death. However, having enough evidence to be able to move forward to get a DA to press charges is a totally different matter, and in many instances, the 162 3/12/08 - WHOLE - BILL 080156 reluctance of the witnesses to come forward is a problem when it comes to actually getting charges, and that makes it very, very difficult. So there are -- it's unfortunate that we have situations where we've got people on our streets now where they're suspects in a particular case, but we lack enough evidence to be able to bring it forward to trial. So I would say that that's probably a fairly accurate statement, but it takes more than that to be able to actually move forward, get a person off the street and successfully prosecute them for the crime of murder.

Okay. So basically then a lot of those homicides are unresolved, right, unsolved? COMMISSIONER RAMSEY: Many of them are unsolved, unfortunately, because we don't have enough evidence to be able to move forward with prosecution and that person is free to either kill again or 163 3/12/08 - WHOLE - BILL 080156 themselves become a victim, because people in the street think that a person does it and then next thing you know, you've got a retaliatory shooting or stabbing or what-have-you. So it just adds to that cycle of violence. But the more people we get to come forward and provide information that will result in a successful prosecution, the better off we are.

Well, it is true that we do need more people to be involved in what they call snitching. It's not really snitching. It's just telling. We can't have safe streets if citizens aren't willing to come forward to help. I want to get -- and I don't know whether someone asked you this question or not, but do you have a status or update on the video surveillance cameras installations? COMMISSIONER RAMSEY: Yes. I'll defer to Deputy Commissioner 164 3/12/08 - WHOLE - BILL 080156 Gaittens. He'll give you an update on where we're at now with the video surveillance cameras. DEPUTY COMMISSIONER GAITTENS: Yes. Our goal is still to have 250 cameras by the end of this year. Currently, we are working in the area of 52nd and Market trying to get the cameras up there. We're running into some problems with PECO and with SEPTA as far as hanging the cameras on their equipment. We are working with the vendor to try and put up cameras in other areas where it's a little more accessible and we don't have to go through that. However, the City's lawyers, the vendor's attorneys and the different entities are working on it. We believe it will be resolved shortly. Currently, we have the ten pan-tilt-zoom cameras out there in the areas down in the 17th District around the Barrett Middle School. We've already had the two at Broad and Susquehanna, two 165 3/12/08 - WHOLE - BILL 080156 at Broad and Girard, the cameras down at 7th and Girard. We still have some of the pods up in the neighborhoods, although they are not monitored at the police monitoring facility. We have the Unisys cameras in the 16th District at 36th and Filbert, 38th and Filbert, 44th and Market. In the 19th we have cameras at 47th and Locust, 47th and Walnut, 48th and Walnut, 51st and Market, 52nd and Chestnut, 52nd and Ludlow, 53rd and Market, 60th and Ludlow, 60th and Chestnut. In the 19th we have 52nd and Filbert and 60th and Arch. And, as I said, we intend to meet the goal of 250 cameras by the end of this calendar year.

So it sounds like you're focusing right now on West Philadelphia? (Bell rung.) DEPUTY COMMISSIONER GAITTENS: What we did is, we worked with the vendor, and the way that the wireless cameras are working, they put in what 166 3/12/08 - WHOLE - BILL 080156 they call a high site or a service area, and then the cameras feed their data into that spot and then it gets transmitted back. So it's best when you start working to put up the cameras that you work in one particular area at a time. And we had laid out a general plan as to where we were going to go, and by the end of the year, we would be in every single division in the City to cover the maximum coverage all across the City. As I said, we're running into some engineering problems, particularly with the El super structure and with the amount of radio waves and air traffic that goes through the City, but the engineers for the vendor are working on that. So, yes, we do intend to get to the areas around Kensington and Allegheny, Broad and Erie, North Philly. We intend to get to all the areas in the City.

Well, I 167 3/12/08 - WHOLE - BILL 080156 do know that you intend to get to them. I was actually just hoping that more would be up before the spring -- DEPUTY COMMISSIONER GAITTENS: So were we.

-- when all of our friends start coming out, you know. I think you did put one up, though, at 17th and Wingohocking. Did you put one up there? DEPUTY COMMISSIONER GAITTENS: No, ma'am.

Oh, okay. Because someone told me that you did. All right. Okay. Thank you. Thank you, Madam President.

You're welcome. The Chair again recognizes Councilman Green.

Thank you, Madam President. In your testimony and in the Five-Year Plan on , you talk about 168 3/12/08 - WHOLE - BILL 080156 reducing the number of outstanding warrant offenders by pushing warrant service down to the street patrol level. I'm wondering whether or not the costs of that are -- the cost implications of that are fully reflected in the budget, in your opinion, for the Police Department. COMMISSIONER RAMSEY: Well, that's actually a good question. I'll have to get back to you on whether or not it has any direct costs. I consider it to be part of their normal duties and functions, and doing it within their eight-hour tour is what I was referring to, that you've got people that are wanted on warrants, it's in your area of responsibility, part of your responsibility is not just letting the fugitive squad get them, and we'll be sending people out to take a look and see if they can pick them up. So I wasn't looking at it as an additional cost, although it could be, but I'd have to -- 169 3/12/08 - WHOLE - BILL 080156

And do you know if the DA, the courts and the Prison System were aware of this plan and whether or not -- COMMISSIONER RAMSEY: Yes.

-- the costs have been reflected in their Five-Year Plans? COMMISSIONER RAMSEY: That I don't know, sir, but they are aware, because I've had numerous discussions with all of our partners about our Crime Plan, Warrant Service obviously being one of them. I was with the U.S. Marshal yesterday and the DA yesterday, and the Crime Plan was discussed again. It was never raised as an issue in terms of any added cost to them, but they're fully aware of the fact that we are going to step up our warrant enforcement.

Okay. Bear with me one second. I'm trying to see what I haven't covered. On , you talk about the 170 3/12/08 - WHOLE - BILL 080156 repayment of a loan to create automated system to track court attendance and police officers. It was $290,550 in PICA funding for this in Fiscal '07 and there was no appropriation for this in FY08 or FY09. So there was a project to understand the reduction in -- to try to reduce police overtime in the court system. Can you report on that? Have we gotten anywhere with that? DEPUTY COMMISSIONER GAITTENS: Yes, sir. We refer to that as the CAT system, the court attendance tracking system, and we ended up putting 80 total scanners, 63 in the Criminal Justice Center courtrooms, six in divisional hearing sites, two in Court Attendance at 1801 Vine, two at the evidence custodian in City Hall and seven at Court Attendance in City Hall. And the idea of that was when the officers were punching into court, they would go to City Hall, clock in, go over to the Criminal Justice 171 3/12/08 - WHOLE - BILL 080156 Center, have their case and then from the Criminal Justice Center have to walk back to City Hall, sometimes wait in long lines and then clock out. So somebody who was actually on the overtime clock is getting paid overtime to walk back to City Hall and to stand in line and then to finally punch out, and many, many times getting an additional half hour overtime for that. Additionally, from administrative purposes, inside the CJC an officer may be called to testify and they don't know where the officer's whereabouts are, because the narcotics officers and some of the more active tactical officers may have seven or eight listings on the same day. With the court attendance tracking system, the court liaison person can look on there and say, Yes, Your Honor, that officer is right now in Room 704. So we have the ability to know where our officers are at any given time once they've punched into the 172 3/12/08 - WHOLE - BILL 080156 system. The reason why there's no more appropriation for it is that is finally paid for. That's at the end of the payment for that system. We believe -- we cannot say for sure because there is no exact measure. There are too many variables when you're dealing with court overtime, but it is our estimate that we are saving approximately $250,000 to $300,000 a year because of this system, in addition to being able to track the officers. And it gives us a lot better administrative tools. With this system we can bring up how many officers are on what case, how many officers are testifying in that particular case, how many have been subpoenaed, what are their days off, what are their schedules. So it gives us a lot more administrative tools to work with.

Thank you. There was a federal grant -- 173 3/12/08 - WHOLE - BILL 080156 it's Section 36, -- to improve arrests of domestic violence offenders and the enforcement of protection orders. It looks like the FY08 appropriation was 150,000, but estimated obligations were only 125,000. I'm wondering why the City is not spending this entire appropriation from this federal grant, especially for such an important issue. DEPUTY COMMISSIONER GAITTENS: I'll turn that over to my Budget Officer, Mr. Scott Cadden.

Why we're not spending it?

It appears to me that we only spent 125 of the 150 in FY08 or we're only -- the appropriation was 150, but the estimated obligation is 125. And it appears to be a federal grant, and I'm wondering why we wouldn't spend it all, especially for --

I believe we only did receive 125.

So the FY08 174 3/12/08 - WHOLE - BILL 080156 appropriation was incorrect? DEPUTY COMMISSIONER GAITTENS: That would be what we requested.

Yes. DEPUTY COMMISSIONER GAITTENS: When this gets submitted, that's what we have -- a request has already been submitted. Sometimes what we get back is less than what we've asked for.

Could you please provide the Chair the results of that $125,000 expenditure? This is an issue that some of us are looking at on City Council. There are approximately 13,000 protection from abuse orders in the City of Philadelphia. About 7,000 of them are served by police officers. The people who get the protection from abuse orders have to take a day off from work to go get it, then take a day off from work to go to a district if they want the assistance of a police officer and wait until there's an officer available to go with them and do that, and I just would 175 3/12/08 - WHOLE - BILL 080156 like to ask Commissioner Ramsey, based on your experience in other cities, are you aware of the victims of abuse having to arrange for their service of the protection from abuse orders themselves or is it typically handled by writ servers or the police or sheriffs without having to inconvenience the people who have been the victims of abuse? COMMISSIONER RAMSEY: My experience, sir, has been that the victim or the complainant themselves do not actually serve the order. The Sheriff's Office would serve it or a writ server. We enforce it obviously as police, but I'm not -- but this is not the situation I'm accustomed to.

If you'd get back to the Chair with any recommendations in that area, I'd appreciate it rather than putting you on the spot. COMMISSIONER RAMSEY: Yes.

Also, in, I 176 3/12/08 - WHOLE - BILL 080156 guess, last year, actually, in 2007, there were 92,000 false alarm activations, 600 of which were actual robberies. Can you explain based on your experience in other cities what the Police Department or what the City's policy is about that and how we can try to work to reduce the cost to the Police Department and the City of false alarms? Currently, I don't know if you know what -- our policy currently is in Philadelphia you pay $35 a year through your alarm company to have this ability to have the police respond, and on your fourth false alarm, you're charged $25, and it's $25 each false alarm after that up to seven and then you're cut off. COMMISSIONER RAMSEY: Yes, sir. There have been studies looking at burglar alarms, and the last one I looked at, about a 96 percent false rate was pretty much the average, which is very, very high. A lot of jurisdictions have moved toward fining people after so many 177 3/12/08 - WHOLE - BILL 080156 false alarms, putting in place some kind of fine or fee for them to pay. That has had an impact in cutting down in some jurisdictions the number of false alarms, because it does tie up considerable resources when that happens. And there are also instances where if there's a bad electrical storm or some other unusual circumstance, that's not counted against the individual. But I would have to look at what we currently have in place, how that compares to false alarms prior to this legislation being passed and the fines being put in place to see if there's been a reduction in the number of alarms. But it is something that you have to be concerned about, because it does tie up a lot of resources.

Thank you. We will be holding hearings on that and we look forward to working with you to try to free up police resources from false alarms. 178 3/12/08 - WHOLE - BILL 080156 COMMISSIONER RAMSEY: Thank you.

Thank you very much for your testimony today. COMMISSIONER RAMSEY: Thank you.

Are there any other questions of the Commissioner? (No response.)

Seeing no one, thank you very much. COMMISSIONER RAMSEY: Madam Council President, thank you.

And, again, good luck. Thank you. Our next department? MR. McPHERSON: Procurement. (Witnesses approached witness table.)

Good afternoon. Please identify yourself for the record and proceed with your testimony. 179 3/12/08 - WHOLE - BILL 080156 COMMISSIONER ORTMAN: Good afternoon, Council President Verna and members of City Council. I am Hugh Ortman, Commissioner of the Procurement Department. With me today are Deputy Commissioner Sandra Early here on my left and Deputy Commissioner Mary Stitt, who is going to run the slide program until we're done with the testimony, then she's going to come back over here and help me out.

Okay. COMMISSIONER ORTMAN: I am presenting for your consideration the Procurement Department's Fiscal Year 2009 budget request. 4 million, unchanged from Fiscal Year 2008. 88 million for Class 100 expenses supporting 62 employees, also unchanged. 26 million for Class 180 3/12/08 - WHOLE - BILL 080156 200 purchase of services and $74,443 for Class 300 and 400 supplies and equipment. The Grants Revenue Fund budget provides $50,000 for Class 200 purchase of services. The Water Fund budget provides 67,000 for Class 100 payroll expenses for two employees, and the Aviation Fund provides 73,000 for Class 100 payroll expenses for one employee. The Procurement Department is comprised of three divisions. The Services, Supplies and Equipment Division, known as SS&E, centrally purchases products and services required by City departments so they in turn can provide services to the public. SS&E also monitors the City's Class 300 inventory of supplies, accounts for personal property and disseminates bid information to the public. The Public Works Division processes capital products and concession bids, administers the citywide advertising program, and coordinates the 181 3/12/08 - WHOLE - BILL 080156 inspection and disposal of City property. The Executive Direction Division provides the leadership, management and direction of the Procurement Department. The mission of the Procurement Department is to obtain quality goods, services and construction in a timely, cost-effective and professional manner through a competitive, fair and socially responsible process in accordance with the law. The FY2009 General Fund budget request should provide the resources necessary to accomplish this mission. The Procurement Department has a unique role in the Administration's Strategic Plan in that our customers are the departments who need goods and services so that they can provide goods and services to the citizens of Philadelphia. It is our job to find out what our customers need and provide it as quickly and efficiently as possible. Towards an increase in public 182 3/12/08 - WHOLE - BILL 080156 safety, Procurement processes all requests from Police, Fire and the Office of Fleet Management for everything from ammunition to protective clothing to safety supplies in general. In coordination with the OFM, the Department has ongoing contracts in Police for vehicles such as police cars, fire engines and other emergency vehicles. In the field of education, the Procurement Department and the School District of Philadelphia have an ongoing dialogue to ensure sharing of contracts and contract information in order to obtain better pricing and less duplication of effort. In the areas of jobs and economic development, the Department works closely with the Administration and City Council to help develop and enforce contract legislation to be included in our bid documents, such as the five percent local business preference. We also partnership with the Minority 183 3/12/08 - WHOLE - BILL 080156 Business Enterprise Council to promote minority participation in a wide variety of contracts. Our Public Works Unit works hand in hand on large capital projects throughout the City on a continual basis. As to healthy and sustainable neighborhoods, the Department works closely with the Department of Public Health and others to provide health centers with needed equipment and other medical supplies. Procurement coordinates with the energy and recycling offices in a continual effort to increase recycling and encourage use of energy-efficient products at City facilities and in major public works construction projects. Ethics is and has been for many years a major part of the philosophy and direction of the Procurement Department. High standards have long been in place in order to provide a fair and equitable bidding process and ensure that 184 3/12/08 - WHOLE - BILL 080156 taxpayers' money is being spent as appropriately and as efficiently as possible.

Every effort is made to find potential bidders using the City's vendor list, the Internet and other sources. Ethics training is provided on an ongoing basis and is followed up internally. Contracts are reviewed by several levels of City government, including Law, Finance and the City Controller's Office. The Department also works closely with both the Chief Integrity Officer and the Inspector General. As mentioned in previous testimony, the Department's immediate customer is other departments. It is our goal and responsibility to provide them with the best customer service available. We are already in the process of setting new standards of response time, attention to special requests and faster processing of bids. For example, the existing departmental telephone system has already been reconfigured with the ultimate goal 185 3/12/08 - WHOLE - BILL 080156 of a live person answering every call and that each call is forwarded quickly and efficiently. In an effort to provide our vendor base with improved customer service as well, a vendor portal is being developed to give vendors online registration capabilities, as well as real-time access to their vendor file. Currently, the City's website provides potential vendors with a wealth of information, including information on SS&E and Public Works bids. The site also provides easy access to our Vendor's Guide for Doing Business with the City, as well as links to MBEC, ACH Vendor Enrollment for electronic payment of invoices, and a Vendor Information Payment System where vendors can check the status of their invoice payments. In partnership with the Minority Business Enterprise Council, Procurement continues to work diligently and proactively to increase the awards going to certified minority vendors. At 186 3/12/08 - WHOLE - BILL 080156 pre-bid meetings, vendors are encouraged to seek minority participation and are introduced to minority businesses. Procurement continues to partner with MBEC in training programs designed to educate minority vendors about the bidding process and the opportunities with the City. Madam President, this concludes my testimony. I will be glad to answer any questions you or other members of City Council may have regarding my testimony.

Thank you, Commissioner. I see that your FY2009 budget is the same as your FY2008 estimated obligations. Can you explain why none of your costs will be increasing in FY2009? COMMISSIONER ORTMAN: What was the last sentence, ma'am? I have to beg the indulgence of the Chair. I am a little hard of hearing, and it's not amplification, it's echoes and -- 187 3/12/08 - WHOLE - BILL 080156

Would you want me to repeat? COMMISSIONER ORTMAN: -- poor acoustics. So sometimes I can't quite hear everything you say. I apologize.

That's all right. Would you want me to repeat it? COMMISSIONER ORTMAN: Just the last sentence.

Can you explain why none of your costs will be increasing in FY2009? COMMISSIONER ORTMAN: Why none of them are increasing?

As we see it. COMMISSIONER ORTMAN: Well, we've been asked to try and cut everything as much as possible. Our budget people were able to keep our budget where it was. I could bring our budget people up to further explain that to you. 188 3/12/08 - WHOLE - BILL 080156

Are they here? COMMISSIONER ORTMAN: One is.

Madam President, my name is Harold King.

Why don't you sit, use the microphone so the stenographer can hear you, please.

Yes. My name is Harold King. I'm a Fiscal Assistant with Finance ASC. As to your question about the budget not changing from Fiscal '08, these are the figures that were presented to us by the Budget Bureau, and as Commissioner Ortman just stated, we were asked to stay within the range of those numbers. We do anticipate an employee retiring, which in turn allows for additional hires to reach our employee target level of 62 employees.

Well, with that being said, are you going to be able to function efficiently with the 189 3/12/08 - WHOLE - BILL 080156 budget that you all have for 2009?

I would have to say, optimistically, yes. Currently, our projections for Fiscal Year '08, we're well within our projections and there's no reason to believe that we can't stay within the '08 projections.

Your advertising budget for FY2009 is $1,848,931, which is the exact amount you expect to spend in the current budget. I mean, we're changing nothing, are we?

Right. And, again, based on the figures given by the Budget Bureau, we could not exceed the amount for this fiscal year, as it would take us over the projected numbers that we were given to work with. And so the prudent thing to do would be to stay within the current advertising numbers and stay consistent in that manner. (Witness approached witness table.)

190 3/12/08 - WHOLE - BILL 080156 Steve, did you want to add something to what's been said?

Yes, please, Madam President. For the record, Steve Agostini, Budget Director. As you know, in the first weeks of the Administration, we sat with many of the departments looking for ways to generate efficiencies without reducing services, and one of the things that we learned in the course of going through the Procurement budget was that they were either on target for spending or didn't anticipate that they would need additional funding for their existing level of service. Now, I would agree with you, it does look curious that it's the same exact number from the prior year and so I think it's a very fair question. We think they are able to live within that for the coming year. If for some reason they can't, we will come back to you, but 191 3/12/08 - WHOLE - BILL 080156 it was our expectation based on those early meetings that they could generate sufficient efficiencies with what they were doing, that they could stay within that dollar figure, and that's why we gave them that target.

Understood. Thank you. Thank you. The Chair recognizes Councilwoman Tasco.

Yes. I have a couple of questions, but I have to go. I want to ask this one. The other day the Capital Program Budget Office was in here and they talked about the difficulty in bidding out projects for recreation facilities because they have to do a four-part bidding. Is that a fact, that all the projects have to have four-part bidding? They have to have four major contractors on a project? COMMISSIONER ORTMAN: That's a public works question, and Sandy Early is 192 3/12/08 - WHOLE - BILL 080156 our Deputy Commissioner for Public Works. I'd like her to answer them. DEPUTY COMMISSIONER EARLY: Good afternoon. The reference to the four-part bidding is based on a state law that any construction work that exceeds $4,000 must be bid separately. So if there's a recreation center that is being totally renovated and there's some -- it has to be split up in the disciplines of general construction, electrical, HVAC and plumbing. So if there is any plumbing, HVAC or electrical work that's going to exceed $4,000, it has to be broken out and bid separately.

So it applies to all City projects, construction projects? DEPUTY COMMISSIONER EARLY: Correct.

What impact does it have on the City in terms of cost? 193 3/12/08 - WHOLE - BILL 080156 DEPUTY COMMISSIONER EARLY: I don't know if they've done or a study has been done to show the difference in costs, but as far as the coordination of the project, I believe it is more efficient to have the one -- I mean, it's more efficient, it appears, to have it bid singly, but I guess because of the state regulation, it has to be separate. But the general construction is usually the one that coordinates the other three parts of the contract.

Let me just ask you one other question. I had some MBEC questions, but you answered some of it in your testimony. Are you new to the Procurement Department or did you come up through the ranks? COMMISSIONER ORTMAN: Came up through the ranks, ma'am.

Okay. Considering that many minority-owned businesses are small, does the 194 3/12/08 - WHOLE - BILL 080156 Procurement Department take steps to repackage City contracts into smaller contracts so that more small businesses can bid on the City contracts? COMMISSIONER ORTMAN: I can give you a specific example where we did try that last year with snow removal. We thought that we could -- we even bought vendors in, smaller vendors, basically like landscapers, who obviously can't landscape in the wintertime, so they're available to do that kind of work. We met with the Streets Department. This was their hope as well. We tried to break it out so that instead of all -- we only have three or four large contractors previous to this year. We attempted to get smaller vendors to bid by setting up a -- it was a prorated situation. It would be complicated to go into it. But in the end, only the major people bid. We could not get the smaller vendors to bid. We tried.

Did they 195 3/12/08 - WHOLE - BILL 080156 know about it? COMMISSIONER ORTMAN: Excuse me?

They knew about it? COMMISSIONER ORTMAN: Yeah. We actually brought them into our offices. They thought it sounded interesting. For whatever reason, they didn't -- when we opened the bids up, they were all the same major contractors that always bid. Now, they'll use these people for subs.

But they don't want to be the major. COMMISSIONER ORTMAN: I'm sorry?

They don't want to be the prime. COMMISSIONER ORTMAN: From what we can gather. We absolutely sat down and tried to do that.

Let me ask you one other question. You triggered something. 196 3/12/08 - WHOLE - BILL 080156 Now I can't think of it. I'm sorry. COMMISSIONER ORTMAN: I'll be here.

Okay. Thank you. Thank you, Madam President.

You're welcome. The Chair recognizes Councilman Rizzo.

Congratulations, Commissioner. It's nice to see somebody from within make it to the top. You've been there a lot of years. COMMISSIONER ORTMAN: Thank you, Councilman.

Congratulations again. Can you fill us in on a deal? The company is called Chartwell Advisory Group. Apparently they hold a contract and they're located in the suburbs where 197 3/12/08 - WHOLE - BILL 080156 they're trying to recover for the City -- do I have this right -- sales tax, Pennsylvania sales tax? COMMISSIONER ORTMAN: Yes, that's correct.

We pay them $50,000 a year? COMMISSIONER ORTMAN: There are often times they get paid when they shouldn't be paid. Not by the City itself, but maybe by a contractor, situations like that. Sandy might even know more about that.

Let me tell you what I know and -- COMMISSIONER ORTMAN: Go ahead, please.

Chartwell Advisory Group is a privately held company based in King of Prussia. Thirty-five percent of refunds received from state -- they get 35 percent of refunds received that they recover, 35 percent, plus they get a flat fee of 198 3/12/08 - WHOLE - BILL 080156 $50,000 a year to recover Pennsylvania sales tax. Is that correct? DEPUTY COMMISSIONER EARLY: No. 5

Explain the deal. DEPUTY COMMISSIONER EARLY: It's on a contingency basis. The $50,000 I believe you're referring to may be the -- it might be our budget person -- I think that's the grant amount that's set aside for that. But they're paid as they receive the refund. The 35 percent is a contingency basis.

But why do we need to have this agency to go after refunds for Pennsylvania -- this confuses me a little bit. If you could explain what is exactly the scenario here. What do they do for us that we give them 35 percent of the take? DEPUTY COMMISSIONER EARLY: As far as public works, I know in the past on construction projects, contractors may have paid sales tax on items that were 199 3/12/08 - WHOLE - BILL 080156 used for government work that in the past the laws have changed, and that by us being tax exempt, they were able to go back and recover by researching our contracts and contractors' records for invoices to prove that they did pay taxes, state taxes, on items that the City is being exempt should not have paid taxes on. So that is something that I guess they started their company in order to make a viable profit. They came to the City, and there was an RFP for that service done, a professional service contract, and they researched our contracts. They got records from our contractors, and they were able to recover hundreds of thousands of dollars in unpaid or erroneously paid taxes. COMMISSIONER ORTMAN: Councilman, may I add, they also go over some of our contracts such as our office supply contract, which is hundreds and actually thousands of items involved that 200 3/12/08 - WHOLE - BILL 080156 are purchased every year, and their job is to go -- because it's just too much of a job for each individual department. They will -- in the past, they went in and found that we might be being overcharged the percentage. It's supposed to be like an item -- we get a percentage discount off of every item in Staples' catalogue or whose ever we're dealing with in their catalogues, in this case say something like 55 percent discount off the catalogue price. Maybe they gave us a 45 percent discount. Well, this is where Chartwell over the years went in and found all these errors. We got the money back, and since then, Staples isn't overcharging us anymore. That's one other thing they do other than taxes, but they find the contracts where they can make their money and save us money.

Okay. But I would hope that we would try to get it right. 201 3/12/08 - WHOLE - BILL 080156 DEPUTY COMMISSIONER EARLY: Well, it has been a reduction since this audit has begun. So it's basically an auditing system that has been put in place and that has minimized that amount of incorrect taxation.

Thank you. When you see things like this, you have to ask that question. DEPUTY COMMISSIONER EARLY: Yes.

My final question is that I just recently learned -- and I'm just telling you what I just learned to lead up to my question. I recently learned that the Ford Crown Victoria that we use for a police car -- COMMISSIONER ORTMAN: Recently heard of? I'm sorry.

Want me to slow down a little? COMMISSIONER ORTMAN: No. Just repeat it, please.