This is a second bite at the apple.
So if this witness,
if this witness,
I would just ask for answers to my questions
without objections i allowed the direct of this witness to go on without objection i was very
courteous and i'm asking for the same courtesy please proceed i'll put it i'll put my objection
on and i won't say it again all questions related to the historical commission are irrelevant this
is a zoning process and i'll refrain from objection but note my running objection to questions
about the commission it's not a part of this process thank you ms gallagher the initial
proposal that my client submitted to the historical commission was taller wasn't it which one are you
talking about do you mean the one that he was required to withdraw what ma'am i'm talking about
i'm talking about are you aware of miss gallagher are you aware of any adjustments to the original
plan yes i am aware i'm aware that there were adjustments to the plan and that and height was
height one of those adjustments? Yes. And was massing another? That sounds like a technical
architectural term. I don't know if I can address that. Isn't it true? Excuse me, this is Sharon
Saleta. I'm not seeing the relevance of this. These are two independent processes. You have an
appeal of the historical commission approval. This should relate only to zoning. And Mr. Chairman,
I'm asking, and Ms. Saleta respectfully, my client has been through this process and has come to you
with the results of that process and that's our hardship and this board I respectfully submit
should consider the fact that this neighbor in particular and some of the other neighbors as
well are using this as a second opportunity to diminish the project. Excuse me Mr. Fisher I
disagree. That's what zoning is about. The historical commission is a quasi-legislative
body. The ability to have input is different. The criteria are different. I'm just not seeing
irrelevance and cheer i hate to interrupt as usual but i'm calling the 45 minute mark
has already passed for this case good thank you
i mean we spent a considerable amount of time with about talking about the historical commission
very little time on the zoning issue and mr chairman the i'm sorry i didn't mean to interrupt
no no good okay mr chairman this witness talked about the imperatives of the historical commission
and the impact on her property and i'm not faulting you mr miller i'm saying
And I'm not faulting you, Mr. Miller. I'm saying all the way around.
Everyone is, we've been spending a lot of time on this historical commission issue.
Not that it's not important, but it's really not relevant to what we should be talking about.
Right. Well, you're, Ms. Gallagher, you're aware that my client is entitled to 80% lot coverage on this property, right?
We'll stipulate.
we'll stipulate to that okay and will you also agree miss gallagher that our plan is for less
than 80 percent no also that was no no i'm not aware of that in fact your plan is to go 120 feet
on 150 foot lot which is an 80 exactly that's when the first gallagher that even miss woodcock
agreed to that right well he said less than 80 she's saying it is 80 to be clear well it's less
than 80 I was in there somebody interrupted me all right okay not less than 80 I do not agree with
that now isn't it a fact I'm sorry why don't you tell the panel the height of each of your decks
I do not have that data readily available well on which floors are your decks located
my the lower deck is on the third floor and the upper deck is uh on the roof okay so on the third
floor that's the third story right correct and there's two stories below it right yes that's
well below 38 feet isn't it what what is well below the the level of her third floor
well they just 20th street slopes down so are you talking about from grade level or from
the front facade level i'm measuring it from the front well it could be more than 38 then
couldn't it because this 20th street slopes down no i'm talking about measuring it from the front
so i think it would be less but the my my client has the right to build to 38 feet on this street
right i believe the legal counsel stipulating okay and if my client builds to 38 feet
Ms. Gallagher, do you recognize these photos?
So, Mr. DeMarco showed us the top one, which was your third floor view, right?
Correct.
And if I scroll down, is that a fair and accurate depiction of your view from the second floor?
Correct.
And if I scroll down further, is that a fair and accurate view from your first floor?
That is?
Okay. Now, isn't it true that each of these rear views will be lost if there's a buy-write development to 38 feet, 80% on my client's property?
I believe on the first and second floor. That's true.
okay and is it your testimony that your third floor is more than 38 feet high i do not know
right so if it's not then you would lose your view on the third floor as well right
yes okay and that's the scaffolding that's been there for how many years
that is the scaffolding right and that's been there for coming on four years now
that's not true please let's stop with the scaffolding ms gallagher could you could you
answer that i don't know how long well you're saying approximately approximately two and a
half years thank you well ms gallagher my client began his efforts concerning this property
in the first half of 2019 right
we'll stipulate to that yes and yet you blame my client for the presence of that scaffolding
ever since objection that's that's not what she said i don't think she blamed him for the
scaffolding no i see i don't i don't remember hearing anything it's it's your testimony that
it's your uncertainty as to what's going to happen on my client's property that forces you
to leave scaffolding on the back of your property for coming up on what you admit to be three years
no action that was she said
this thing
now my client's original proposal for this property uh had more units didn't it
The one that he had to withdraw?
My client's initial proposal for the use and development of this property
consisted of more units than is before the board today, right?
I guess I'll trust you for that.
All right. And let's be fair.
Shortly after your first conversation with my client,
my client then allowed you to park at no charge on his property.
didn't he that is not true let's what is what's wrong with you no no and please let's be respectful
sorry i don't see the relevance of that okay it was suggested to be a good neighbor we'll accept
that but mr chairman why maybe the suggestion was that my client was somehow surly and and and
disagreeable and the fact that my client allowed his next door neighbor to park free of charge on
his property demonstrates something to the contrary are you object you sustained the objection
i why is it i don't the relevance of that to zoning i i don't i don't understand it okay
may i just have one moment please
thank you those are all my questions of this witness thank you mr demarco
i don't have any redirect okay if you have anyone else we implore you to give us someone who's going
to say speak to something new and different i do i guess we'll do uh if bob sutton is still on the
call Bob are you can we get Bob Sutton on on board for those who are waiting on the phone it's not
that the board doesn't appreciate you're taking the time to be here but redundancy doesn't help
but redundancy doesn't help any of us.
to help any of us we have other cases still to be
We have other cases still to be heard.
Do we have Bob?
Bob, are you there?
Bob Sutton.
That's three times, so next one.
Okay, I'll move on to next.
Lisa Hastings, please, if Lisa is available.
Tanya, do we have Lisa Hastings?
I have no hands up.
Do we have Kathleen Harleman?
No hands are up.
Yeah, but I think they're on.
They just don't know to raise their hands.
I did tell them.
Kathleen, are you with us?
We have Kathleen, Tanya.
Kathleen.
No, Kathleen.
Tanya, no.
my other witness would be john jonathan goodman
did all them leave i can't believe all them left that mr goodman from uh councilwoman got the a's
office no no this is mr goodman's 2004 spring garden oh john i'm sorry the other one's andrew
i'm sorry my mistake i mean look if they left they left i mean uh it's a shame because i guess
we went late but well it's only our fourth hearing i know bob sutton lisa hastings kathleen harleman
and john goodman all wanted to testify mr chairman all right we'll stipulate that they were here in
opposition okay whatever reason okay all right well then it's just the rco and then i i mean
you know i would have argument and i would i do i do want to have you to hear from those four
witnesses but oh here's john texting me oh he's not being they're saying they're not being
acknowledged mr chairman at least john goodman is tanya do we have john goodman you have his hand
up you said he had his hand up and he's he and he says he has his hand raised and he's in the chat
and then she's they say kathleen's raising her hand as well did tanya leave us
oh she's still there
i also see bob sutton's hand raised are still there
i just had a text message from tanya that her system froze oh
excuse me bob sutton is on as well mr chairman um excuse me chair this is pauline from the it
yes pauline could um i'm sorry i don't remember your name but can you please um
I'm going to share your screen for a minute and I can put those people and promote those
panelists.
Absolutely.
Thank you.
All right.
So let's do Bob.
Can I do Bob Sutton first, please?
Thank you.
Good evening, Mr. Sutton.
please identify yourself with a record spell your name and give us your address
Mr. Sutton you just need to unmute yourself please
okay now I see how I can unmute myself thank you very much
I have been trying to raise my hand I have been trying to
okay we got it please identify yourself
my name is Robert Sutton
what are your last name?
S-U-T-T-O-N
and your address?
2001 Hamilton Street, PHP 508.
I live at City View.
Mr. Stein.
You're swearing if I'm to tell the truth, the whole truth, nothing but the truth.
Yes, I do.
Please proceed.
Bob, you're here in opposition to this matter?
Yes, I am.
And you're in the City View Towers?
Yes, I am.
And did the City View Towers conduct any type of process
in terms of reaching a decision on whether to agree, oppose, or stay neutral in this case?
I am not aware of any such process.
I did talk with the board member, one of the board members for my condominium association,
and was told that it was never an issue that was raised during the board meetings.
Objection.
I am just saying that there was no discussion that I was aware of, and I tried to find out about one and found that there was nothing.
I am just saying that there was no discussion that I was aware of.
Objection.
Do you have to speak on your behalf?
I am not aware of any effort to identify the opinions of City View residents about the proposed plan.
I know of some city residents who are opposed, and I have also heard that there are some in favor.
Tell the board why you're here and why you do not agree with the variances in this case.
Well, I have been active with neighborhood issues for many years, even before I moved to City View five years ago.
I've been active with the Logan Square Neighborhood Association.
um the the association has always been um considering the views of near neighbors when
there is our development proposals uh i've been interested in the historic aspects of the
neighborhood and i think that this is a building that is over scaled and inappropriate as it's
currently planned i understand that it has been modified to some extent but basically i would say
that zoning variances should be granted as a matter of hardship. And I see only self-imposed
hardship here. I do not see any hardship case. This is something that could have been a well-designed
building in accord with the neighbors, could have been cooperatively developed, could have been
done within the current zoning there is no reason why there should be any relief given to this
developer from the provisions of the zoning code if there is no hardship and you're in you're you're
you're abutting basically you're an unit owner of the abutting property right i am i can see it from
my my apartment that's all i have mr chairman of bob miller i have no questions thank you
appreciate that mr demarco uh new and different well kathleen is an immediate neighbor that wanted
to testify she's been on my list from the beginning okay hold on a minute please sure okay kathleen
Harleman. Okay, Kathleen has been promoted. She just needs to unmute herself.
Good evening, ma'am. Please identify yourself, the records by your last name, and provide us
with your address. Kathleen Harleman, H-A-R-L-E-M-A-N, 2012 Spring Garden Street, Philadelphia.
And do you swear and affirm to tell the truth, the whole truth, nothing but the truth?
Mr. DeMarco.