The older-adult centers. There has been a matter for a long time being discussed up at the Northeast with respect to -- the Northeast Older Adult Center, on Castor Avenue. I'm not sure what the -- is it Fanshawe? Something like that. Is it Shellmire? Shellmire that's been talking about feeling the need to move somewhere else? Are you familiar at all with that?
Because I've been there, and they seem to feel that they've outgrown the place. The field is kind of inadequate now, it doesn't have an elevator to go up to the second floor, and so a lot of people that use the ground 1173 OPERATING BUDGET CONT'D. - BILL 05 - 2/16/00 floor can't fully use the facilities. Secondly, they're talking about wanting to go to some spot near a park or in a park. I'm just not sure exactly what it is. I was wondering what's the state there now?
It's a very heavily utilized one. I know that from my visits there.
The center -- the Northeast Older Adult Center is very heavily used. And by its usage, it does recommend itself to being expanded. The existing space is within a strip shopping mall and does not have physical space available to it. Councilman Mariano's deeply involved with identifying a new site, and more importantly, with identifying funding. The final site's not fixed, the full funding is not fixed, but the program is very well along toward being funded. Again, until a capital project fully funded, we really can't commit to what the final --
Where would the funding come from? 1174 OPERATING BUDGET CONT'D. - BILL 05 - 2/16/00
Other outside funding sources are being sought. I don't have any further information on that, though.
Doesn't the State have special funding programs for recreational activities?
I believe they're mostly for operations. I don't recall know that.
Well, I would just like to suggest that we explore it, but it's my understanding that all counties except Philadelphia have State parks fully funded by State government. Now, Philadelphia is a county as well as a city, and in other areas of government, I think we receive funding based upon the fact that we're a county and not a city because we have responsibilities that only counties have. And we have it as a city and we also have the double responsibility for the State. I would like to urge that because I 1175 OPERATING BUDGET CONT'D. - BILL 05 - 2/16/00 think we have strong claims to make upon the State because we're the only would ones -- only county, as I understand it, of the 67 in Pennsylvania that get no direct support in the nature of funding as a State park would get. And I would urge that that be looked upon. All right, thank you, Madam Chair.
I have two questions in reference to the stadium. And I know Councilman Cohen covered this territory, but I just want to make sure that I got it right. I know there's a lot of controversy, there's differences of opinion in reference to the condition of Veterans Stadium. But what I'd like -- and again, I'm not asking, Mr. Grillone, for you to make a legal opinion here, but based on the lease, which expires at '10 or '11? 2010, 2011?
At the end of 2010. 1176 OPERATING BUDGET CONT'D. - BILL 05 - 2/16/00
At the end of 2010. Based on your knowledge, are you providing the maintenance required based on the lease, the legal document that you have? And does the condition of the stadium meet requirements of that lease?
So for the record, you're stating that you believe that the maintenance that you're providing conforms to the agreement of the lease.
Also that -- okay, I got the answer that I was looking for. I want to ask you another question, and it has to do with -- not Veterans Stadium, but you being in the stadium business, you know a lot about, I would assume, other stadiums throughout the country. At least you have some knowledge of other stadiums around the United States.
Yes. Do you know of any other football-only stadiums in the United States that have the practice facility 1177 OPERATING BUDGET CONT'D. - BILL 05 - 2/16/00 incorporated into the stadium? My question is, we're going to build the Eagles a brand-new stadium. And, again, someday we're going to build them a brand-new stadium. Do you know of any other stadium in the United States that has that practice facility incorporated in a football-only stadium complex?
Part of it. In other words, on the same parcel, whether it's connected to it or it stands alone at the same site.
There are a couple that are in the proximity of the stadium, yes. And then there are others that are somewhat removed.
The practice facility that we're hoping that gets built.
Right. Except that ours is a little closer, obviously -- just divided by Broad Street.
But there are some 1178 OPERATING BUDGET CONT'D. - BILL 05 - 2/16/00 stadiums that have a practice facility that's incorporated with the stadium.
Okay, that's it that's. What I wanted to know, and you were to the point. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you very much, Councilman. Councilwoman Brown?
Thank you, Madam Chair. I want to go back to the William Penn testimony and the attachment that speaks to enrollment numbers. The first paragraph of your testimony indicates that you're requesting a $5200 increase. Yet the numbers reflect that, for reasons that I'd like for you to share with us, the goals in terms of young people attending the program have not yet been achieved. When you compare your 1999 original goal with the actual goal, there's a shortfall of 400 young people. 1179 OPERATING BUDGET CONT'D. - BILL 05 - 2/16/00 And then you have a goal in FY 2000 of 850 for the current estimate, which I can understand because we're not there yet. But help us understand what reasons contributed to your not being able to achieve the goal of FY '99.
Last year, there was a problem at the camp, in the very first week of the camp with some of the staff.
And the director, Roland Chandler, had to dismiss a few of the staff.
And, therefore, we didn't feel it would be safe to continue to recruit children into the camp when our number of workers was down.
And it was like the second week of July at this point, and it would be 1180 OPERATING BUDGET CONT'D. - BILL 05 - 2/16/00 too late to recruit new staff. And that's why we had a low enrollment for us.
That year. So given the circumstance behind those staff, have they been rectified so that that bridge, we won't cross again? (Roland Chandler comes forward.)
Councilwoman, my name is Roland Chandler. I'm the Director of Camp William Penn.
Thank you. One of the things we're going to be doing is a redoubled effort i trying to recruit qualified staff. One thing we're starting earlier -- have already started, we have an announcement on cable television, we currently have a Web under construction by MOIS. So we're going to be out there earlier.
So what things are you doing differently in terms of recruitment? Have you revised the criteria of the type of professionals you're looking for or what?
We're still looking for 1181 OPERATING BUDGET CONT'D. - BILL 05 - 2/16/00 college students.
And this group largely that was dismissed last year didn't meet the criteria.
We're just going to try to look deeper and to -- like I said, starting earlier and trying to create a bigger pool of applicants is what I'm looking for this year to select from. My first priority at camp is the safety and the well-being of the campers, and keeping these folks on board would have compromised that, and I didn't want to do it. And to try to continue to have the camp enrollment with reduced staff would have also compromised that as well.
In all the years 1182 OPERATING BUDGET CONT'D. - BILL 05 - 2/16/00 of Camp William Penn?
If my other colleagues have questions on Camp William Penn, they're next on our list. So we technically haven't gotten to them yet.
So could we do any other areas dealing with Recreation before we focus on Camp William Penn? If that's okay?
My final question is not related to Camp William Penn.
It's really an acknowledgment. You state of your testimony that with the athletic programs, you draw on and enlist professional sports teams, a good thing. And then in the Mural Arts Program, 1183 OPERATING BUDGET CONT'D. - BILL 05 - 2/16/00 you draw on professional artists, so that young people get a chance to see the long view from where they are from an amateur's standpoint and what opportunities lie ahead at the professional end. So if you're not doing it already -- and I'd be curious to know if you are -- with the dance program, is there any outreach linkage with the Pennsylvania Ballet or the Philadelphia Dance Company?
Yes, there is. The dance program across the city is exploding. Leo Dignam (ph.) and Ruth Butler, two of our employees, have additional sites this year, and 16 we'll be able to get you the information and we'll 17 send it over to you. 18
On where they are 19 and where they're located. I would be interested 20 in that. 21
Thank you, 1184 OPERATING BUDGET CONT'D. - BILL 05 - 2/16/00 Councilwoman. Councilman Goode?
I have questions for the stadium manager. I forget your name.
Thank you. Let me first commend you for your honesty this afternoon. Let me ask you a question. At what point did you know there were going to be new stadiums?
Yes, at what point were you informed that there were going to be new stadiums?
Just the general, you know, information in the newspapers and the desires of the teams and the -- forgive the word -- the arenas within which they, you know, compete in terms of the economics of the business. It was obvious that they were going to 1185 OPERATING BUDGET CONT'D. - BILL 05 - 2/16/00 push for new stadiums, and I think it was common knowledge, for example, that the ---
It was a goal of the former administration to try to get those things done.
Well, I recognize the former administration, through the auspices of the Philadelphia Industrial Development Corporation, began studying stadiums back in 1997 and paid $50,000 in Economic Stimulus Funds for an Arthur Anderson report. Have you been aware of new stadiums since 1997?
Just the ones that were made public throughout the last several months that --
But you've continued to plan for stadium renovations at the level that 1186 OPERATING BUDGET CONT'D. - BILL 05 - 2/16/00 you've been planning?
Right now, as I said, we have a good bit of information that was generated from the engineering report. Unless, you know, we hear differently, you know, we will continue to use it as we formulate our plans.
So at what point have you ever believed that new stadiums would be a reality? Will they be a reality in 2002, 2003, 2004? Is there any point at which you've decided that new stadiums will be a reality, therefore, there's no need to continue to plan renovations at the level at which you've been planning renovations.
I think that's still to be determined, Councilman. I don't know that we can predict that.
Actually Councilwoman Reynolds Brown asked me to ask you to speak a bit more into the mike.
So if you are not anticipating any specific point where there are new stadiums, then it would be your responsibility 1187 OPERATING BUDGET CONT'D. - BILL 05 - 2/16/00 to plan for what those renovations should be for the next two- or three-period, and that's what you have done.
For the record, who else will be responsible for planning those renovations in case there were not new stadiums by a certain standpoint?
We're part of an overall, you know, capital budgeting process. And we would use, you know, our knowledge and experience, along with input from the teams to get some ideas as to what they think would be necessary. And I think as testified before that it's really a collaborative effort.
So in the planning of stadiums, were you ever consulted on how the stadiums should be planned?
No. I haven't been directly involved in the process stadiums.
Okay, even though you're the current stadium manager. In addition to that, were you consulted on what the improvements should be to those stadiums -- to the 1188 OPERATING BUDGET CONT'D. - BILL 05 - 2/16/00 stadium in case there were not new stadiums.
Thank you. The Chair recognizes Councilwoman Tasco.
Do you want me go to Michael and then come back to you?
The Chair recognizes Councilman Nutter. Would you or Councilman Kenney like to speak on this issue? You move from that end of the room to this end of the room, so I assume that your focus is somewhere else at the moment.
But, Madam Chair, 1189 OPERATING BUDGET CONT'D. - BILL 05 - 2/16/00 don't take me out of the queue, all right?
I want to go back to -- I asked a long question about easement and I want to ask Mr. Iffrig while he's here, just for the purpose of the record. There is an attempt to provide entrance to the Barrett Recreation Center from the Fifth Street side. Right now, we can only enter from the Eighth Street side, I believe, and we put in a request, and there has been some discussion about obtaining easement from the railroad or someone so that we could build this opening, which we have appropriated money for. Are you familiar with that?
Yes, ma'am. There are actually two requests for easements -- our one for us and one from us. They are separate. The one from the church on the Lindsay Avenue side is separate from the one that we're engaged with EPOP, and hopefully very soon, 1190 OPERATING BUDGET CONT'D. - BILL 05 - 2/16/00 Thurgood Marshall School management to create an access through the school property through the former railroad right-of-way, which is now school property and into our eastern side of our property. I had talked to Mr. Pertillo (ph.) of the Eastern Philadelphia Organizing Project, who was involved with the neighborhood, in trying to get the access through the Marshall school. We had talked in December, he was going to call me back to arrange a meeting with the principal and with people from the community to discuss the exact location and nature of the access. I imagine that he's waiting out the weather right now. I will check back with him and see where they are with the scheduling of a meeting.
If you think if another question, just let us know. Councilman Nutter, are you ready?
Thank you, Madam Chair. I thought you'd never call on me. 1191 OPERATING BUDGET CONT'D. - BILL 05 - 2/16/00 (Laughter.)
Councilwoman Miller raised an issue, I think, when Mr. Iffrig was at the table about a particular recreation facility and a contracting issue. I don't remember the location, but your response had to do with a problem with the contractor either not having adequate funds or some look of availability of personnel or something. Do you remember that exchange between yourself and Councilwoman Miller?
The question has revolved today somewhat around the problems at the Bellfield.
Right. I don't know anything about the center, but the part I picked up in that discussion was an issue that has been discussed on a couple occasions here in the past, which is the contractors bid on multiple recreation and sometimes even Fairmount Park work all at the same time. They win the bid or bids. They now literally either don't have enough financial resource of their own to buy all of the material and equipment that they need to 1192 OPERATING BUDGET CONT'D. - BILL 05 - 2/16/00 complete the job, or they don't have enough people to do all of this work simultaneously, and then what they do is do our work based on their timetable of how they can best utilize their personnel to get the maximum number of bids, one, and slow down everybody's project, or we essentially become their bank because they don't have the resources to do what needs to be done, and then wait for us to pay them from previous jobs so they can keep the work going on the current work. Are you familiar with those kind of situations, Mr. Iffrig?
Well, those situations have happened over the years, and some of the most reliable contractors that this department's ever had did work from check to check. One of the points about the Recreation Department's projects are, is they tend to be very small. Therefore, they don't attract large contractors, and that's large, well-financed, and well-funded contractors that have large lines of credits or large amounts of assets. That's historical within the Department. 1193 OPERATING BUDGET CONT'D. - BILL 05 - 2/16/00 That is the reason that we've aggregated as many projects as we can. We've done 1200 for $120 million, but the medium-sized project is only $60,000.
Are there any opportunities, I guess, then to somehow widen somehow the pool of contractors? You and I went through a terrible time out at Venice Island with a particular contractor who could not do any of the things that person claimed that they were going to do at the particular time because they had too much work either with the Recreation Department or Fairmount Park or some other agency of the government, and slowed that project down, either due to general incompetence, lack of funds, or inability to manage their workforce in a way that allowed that project to proceed forward in a quick fashion for the amount of work that needed to be done. Now, I mean, at some level, it seems to me that we have to -- and I'm not accusing you of anything, certainly. But by way of the system, we have to better manage our contractors and develop protocols and procedures that say, you know, you 1194 OPERATING BUDGET CONT'D. - BILL 05 - 2/16/00 have five jobs with the City. How are you going to get all this work done? I mean, you've got, you know, ten people that work for you. Now, you're either going to jerk us around and you're going to do this project now and then you're going to do someone else's later and get to the other one and, you know, by the end of the year, you actually will have all the work done, but if individual contractors were doing jobs, it would have been done much quicker. It is not fair to the citizens of this city, who oftentimes have to miss a rec. season because someone has overcommitted in their zeal to do big business. I love people doing business, I've lived check to check. I mean, I know about that. And what you do if you're living check to check, you don't go out and make a whole lot of commitments on a lot of stuff. And what I want to know is -- and you may or may not have an answer for the moment and we don't have to beat it too long -- is there any process or procedure that the Department is able to develop, possibly through Procurement or any other entity, that requires someone to lay out all 1195 OPERATING BUDGET CONT'D. - BILL 05 - 2/16/00 of their activity and demonstrate their ability to perform? It's not just winning the bid. The bids go to the lowest responsible bidder. And it seems to me in that phrase "responsible," there has to be some element of can you do the work in a timely fashion? You don't win a bid in January and hope that it gets done two Januarys later for some of these small contracts. That's my first thing. Second, we've heard a lot about -- and I'm sure we'll continue to hear about -- discussions regarding Veterans Stadium. You'll all appreciate that I don't want to talk about Veterans Stadium for the moment. What I do want to talk about is another major facility in our city that gets nowhere near the level of attention, time and just due, which is the Dell East. What I'd like to know is, what is the current status, the physical plan over at the Dell East? There was discussion, I believe, last week about capital dollars, the amount appropriated versus the amount needed. But I'd also like to know about the operating costs and operation of the Dell East, which is one of the great 1196 OPERATING BUDGET CONT'D. - BILL 05 - 2/16/00 facilities in the city but certainly doesn't get the support, in my opinion at least, that it needs. What's going on at the Dell East?
Starting with the first question on the contracting issues, I could go on for quite a time on the contracting issues.
There are a number of things that have to be done. Management of the contractor starts with selection. We reject a lot of contractors before the bid's open. It's based on our best ability to read their assets and experience. Even if we knew what other projects they were working on in other departments of the city, we are not going to know what other private business they're doing or what other pitfalls 1197 OPERATING BUDGET CONT'D. - BILL 05 - 2/16/00 might run into. It is a risky business.
We have had some problems, but if you count the number of problem projects against the number of projects successfully completed, I think we've got a better ratio than the general public experiences, very frankly, because of the number of checks and balances in the contracting procedures, some of which are there to protect the contractor.
Which do make it hard to move against them to replace them. Some of those are accounting issues. I do want to stretch it out and say that one issue that's always raised is whether or not we do rewards and punishments, whether we have liquidated damages on projects to assess contractors. It usually requires a concomitant reward for early finishes. We are not funded to do rewards, we do not have additional money to pay rewards.
If that's going to be 1198 OPERATING BUDGET CONT'D. - BILL 05 - 2/16/00 established, that would be great. Other issues we have talked to the Procurement Department in a lot of detail about these things, and we expect to continue to.
Right now, the public standards for public works specifications are being rewritten.
A written response has been repaired (sic) and will be supplied by the Administration.
A written response has been prepared and will be delivered by the Administration.
Okay. That was on capital. Talk to me about operating. 1199 OPERATING BUDGET CONT'D. - BILL 05 - 2/16/00
I didn't see in the testimony any real mention of the Dell East, and I don't see anything in here that talks about personnel, operating budget, which, I'm sure, is in the big book, but I was looking for something here in the testimony.
For our summer of 1999, our revenues were approximately $581,000. Of that we, counted as revenues the City's contribution of $388,000. Their expenses so far for this fiscal year, Fiscal Year 2000, and the majority of the season for calendar year '99 fell under Fiscal Year 2000. We have expenses of approximately $646,000 to date, and we were anticipating approximately $100,000 in expenses for start-ups prior to the end of this fiscal year. 1200 OPERATING BUDGET CONT'D. - BILL 05 - 2/16/00
On the Dell East payroll? They function with -- all year-round with two full-time people and one temporary person, who helps out substantially. And during the season, they have approximately 38 seasonal staff down there. Those salaries come out of the Department's General Fund. The salary costs come out of a different pot of money, the money I'm discussing here for expenses. The expenses I just quoted were net of the payroll expenses. Do you understand what I said?
You took me into a place from which I'm not sure I can escape.
When I discussed expenses that we've incurred so far, they were expenses to run the Dell, exclusive of the payroll expenses of the manager and the --
Okay, right, I understand. How does that compare with last year? And aren't we always looking to both upgrade the facility, have more activities and more programs and the like? I mean, what are we doing and what 1201 OPERATING BUDGET CONT'D. - BILL 05 - 2/16/00 are we not doing that we could be doing but for lack of funding?
Comparison to last year is that we have incurred more expenses this year and have gotten -- well, incurred about the same amount of expenses, maybe a little more, but our revenue gone down about 25,000, 35,000 from the last previous season. As far as programming is concerned, here is Warren Haskins, and he's the Director of the Dell East. (Warren Haskins comes forward.)
Hello, City Council. Warren Haskins, Manager. Presently, the Department is in the process of requesting $130,000 additional appropriation for the Dell, which is sorely needed to get us up and running throughout this season and for next season, bottom line.
Correct, yeah. We have a 1202 OPERATING BUDGET CONT'D. - BILL 05 - 2/16/00 deficit from last season, which we've brought over to this fiscal year. And at the moment, we don't really have all of our present start-up monies, so we're looking for an appropriation, which would allow to us start up and allows us to have a feasible operating budget for Fiscal Year 2001, which would be July 1.
All right. Well, let me go back to the young lady, or maybe Warren knows it. What is the anticipated budget for FY '01?
The anticipated budget for the Dell East is, the City makes a contribution to the Dell East out of its General Fund and it's stayed at the same level of --
So why do you 1203 OPERATING BUDGET CONT'D. - BILL 05 - 2/16/00 characterize it as "a contribution"? We own the place.
I characterize it as a contribution because it's the way we account for the monies that help to support the Dell East. Part of the monies are, in fact, from the City's Operating Budget, but there's another pot of money that they generate through the revenues that they generate.
Right. What's our contribution to the Veterans Stadium?
Our contribution to the Veterans Stadium is their whole operating budget.
Of approximately $4 million, but they also generate revenue of -- we're anticipating $11 million for next year for Veterans Stadium.
They probably have a few more people than the Dell, right? 1204 OPERATING BUDGET CONT'D. - BILL 05 - 2/16/00
All right. So what's the issue with the start-up costs and level of contribution or additional contribution? I mean, how do you make -- I mean, we want the place to work. I mean, we're obviously not doing as good a job as anyone of us would particularly like in terms of having a world-class facility out there. We've got a $4.5 million need, we're trying to stretch a half million dollars to cover $4.5 million. You know, maybe if the place looked better, maybe if the accommodations were a little nicer, maybe if it was a place that people thought that the City actually cared about, people might actually come out there, right?
So what are we going to do about it? 1205 OPERATING BUDGET CONT'D. - BILL 05 - 2/16/00
Well, we'll have to work on a plan for that. We can approach that from various angles of what we can do to make the place as viable and vibrant as it should be.
I understand that, that's on the capital side. Now we're talking about the operating side. I mean, we don't need to plan for $130,000. We need to transfer some money into the appropriate budget class and end that discussion, right?