Point of9 information.10 COUNCIL PRESIDENT VERNA:11 Councilman Rizzo.12
Madam13 President, I want to restate that -- and14 I appreciate what Councilman Kenney was15 trying to communicate, but if a car is16 towed by the rotational tower, it is17 protected by the rules of the18 legislation. It's when a car is hooked19 by other than a rotational tow it's fair20 game. If one of the rotational towers21 tows the car, and a tower is here, will22 be protected by law, fee structure, et23 cetera; am I right?24 LIEUTENANT HEALY: Correct.25 99 10/26/10 - WHOLE - RES. 1005871 Correct. That's the heart and soul of2 the rotational tow system, is to quickly3 move cars that are creating a public4 service emergency and quickly move them5 in an efficient manner, and that's what6 the rotational tow system is about. The7 problem with the rotational tow, as I8 testified, is when does it take place,9 when does it kick into place. That's a10 bit of a problem that needs to maybe11 probably be tweaked.12 The thing is, for the officer13 on the street, before he gets there if14 the cars are moved or drug off to the15 side of the road and I get there, does it16 really apply, does the rotational system17 apply? Technically, theoretically, yes,18 it does, but how does the officer that19 comes to that scene enforce that20 provision? How do I know for a fact that21 that car was blocking the sidewalk? So22 what he does, he handles whatever23 paperwork he has to do and goes on to the24 next job.25 100 10/26/10 - WHOLE - RES. 1005871 So that's part of the problem2 with where's the bright line, and that's3 what the Police Department has done.4 That's an inherent problem with the5 statute as drafted. It's a minor6 problem, but what we've done is, we've7 taken the very aggressive position of8 creating that bright line. We now assume9 that every call that a police officer is10 dispatched to is a rotational tow. Quite11 honestly, they're not going to be, and12 that's a problem. But this way here, at13 least we got a bright line in the scene.14 When my officers are dispatched, if15 someone else other than who is supposed16 to be there is there, then they're17 actually in violation. But still, even18 that's a little bit of a technical flaw,19 because even though we both get there on20 scene and the cars are -- everybody has21 got four wheels and they roll it to the22 side, I can't then force that tower to23 take that tow or I can't force the24 individual to take that tow, because it's25 101 10/26/10 - WHOLE - RES. 1005871 a consensual situation. It's not2 blocking the sidewalk.3 So it is not a perfect system.4 What we've done in the Police Department5 is a temporary fix until we can come up6 with a more permanent and solid solution.7 But we're trying to resolve some of those8 issues administratively, but they are9 problematic, and it's problematic for the10 towers.11 A lot of these towers will be12 going on scene and, like I said, if13 you're the fifth person of the wheel and14 you've only been called in two weeks, you15 get called to a tow and it's not a16 legitimate tow, you don't need to be17 towed, it's kind of a waste of their18 time. But right now it's the best way we19 can do the system until we can work out20 the bugs.21
I just have another25 102 10/26/10 - WHOLE - RES. 1005871 statement. I think what's happening is2 basically what -- the Police Department3 and L&I are trying to do this by4 themselves. I think what they need to do5 is sit down with industry, because I've6 been in all these meetings and I never7 sat down with any of these individuals as8 far as to create something that will9 work, because without industry input,10 nothing is going to work.11
And by that I mean14 that maybe these guys should put together15 a task force with Police Department, L&I,16 Managing Director's Office and also17 industry to try to resolve some of these18 issues, because they've been resolved in19 other places, similar issues.20 LIEUTENANT HEALY: If I may21 very quickly, when this legislation was22 first passed, Councilman Rizzo did23 convene meetings with all the players and24 all the stakeholders, and we went back25 103 10/26/10 - WHOLE - RES. 1005871 and forth for quite some time creating2 what we created, and I think it's a great3 testament to everybody coming together4 that we did get it done, because there5 were a lot of conflicting interests and6 people had different points of views to7 how this program should be run. The fact8 that it's not working as we planned does9 not mean we didn't participate or we10 didn't try.11 I think the meetings and the12 efforts we're doing today with the13 Department and through legislature14 recognizes some of the minor problems15 that we've addressed and we need to16 address them and we're on the right page.17 We're all on the right page. But we did18 include industry. Industry was included.19 I don't know if the gentleman was20 included personally, but, like I said, we21 did the best we could to include22 industry, because we understand the23 towers are the heart and soul of this24 program. We need good, honest towers to25 104 10/26/10 - WHOLE - RES. 1005871 be a part of the rotational system for2 this to work. And the problem is,3 there's some players out there that4 aren't such, and that's the problem. But5 nonetheless, I think administratively and6 collaboratively with City Council we will7 come up with a good resolution.8
Finally, my9 statement is, I agree with this gentleman10 right here. There are a lot of dishonest11 towers. And my company is one of the12 honest towers and we have a one-acre lot13 and I insure a small number of trucks,14 six, and when we do roadside service and15 tows, we have to -- we actually asked16 GEICO to write a lot of those letters17 that Councilman Kenney referred to,18 because what happens is, the wreck19 chasers do get the car first and they're20 supposed to come to our lot because we're21 contracted with that person that was in22 the accident through GEICO, and we have23 to then pay a fee for GEICO because they24 have to release the car to us, and25 105 10/26/10 - WHOLE - RES. 1005871 sometimes it's 700, 800 dollars and the2 tow is not even 24 hours old.3 So I agree that it's a bad --4 some of the people in the business are5 bad and they do bad practices, but we all6 should not be punished for those actions7 of those individuals. They should be8 fined, fined highly actually, but we9 should not have to send the car to an10 assigned lot. I have a secured lot and11 I'm capable of not causing damage to a12 car that's stored on my lot and -- I13 mean, that's basically what I wanted to14 say.15
Madam22 President, thank you.23 I am in receipt of a fax24 transmission. This is for the record.25 106 10/26/10 - WHOLE - RES. 1005871 The witness indicated that GEICO sent us2 a communication, so I'd like to read it3 into the record.4 I am in receipt of a fax5 transmission of a letter dated October6 22nd from John Taylor, counsel for GEICO7 Insurance Company. No one from GEICO8 will be here to testify today, but I am9 submitting a document per Mr. Taylor's10 request as part of the record of today's11 hearing. The letter essentially outlines12 GEICO's concerns and suggestions13 pertaining to the rotational towing14 program. Mr. Taylor has indicated in the15 document and has copies of all members of16 Council, so I'd like to give the17 stenographer a copy for our record.18
Thank19 you.20 The Chair recognizes21 Councilwoman Sanchez.22
Thank23 you.24 I wanted to take an opportunity25 107 10/26/10 - WHOLE - RES. 1005871 to ask Mr. Giral, one of the summations2 that my colleague Councilman Kenney made3 was around the storage situation, and I4 wanted to know what financial impediment5 that creates if for some reason we6 decided to go in a different direction7 and force the tow into another location.8
You're talking9 about forcing us to tow the car back to10 the Parking Authority?11
Well, basically13 that's going to -- we're not going to be14 able to make any income based on the15 storage and maybe even possibly towing16 the vehicle a second time if it doesn't17 go back to our lot. And I just want to18 say there's two things going on here.19 There's the wreck chasers that are taking20 the cars and storing the cars and21 overcharging, and there's the guys like22 me that are on the rotational system and23 want to see it work and are charging a24 fair rate that's regulated by L&I and25 108 10/26/10 - WHOLE - RES. 1005871 which we follow.2
Yes, there will be5 a loss of income if it gets towed back to6 the Parking Authority.7
Just one8 more thing, because I think part of the9 discussion obviously when we say PPA, PPA10 has been doing 95. I'd like to get your11 comments on how that has functioned and12 how PPA has coordinated with the industry13 as it relates to 95, first of all.14
And then17 I'd like to get Healy's kind of response18 to how the 95/PPA in coordination with19 the City has happened. So first you and20 then...21
Well, basically22 what PPA has done on the expressway is23 created a monopoly. They exclusively tow24 on the expressways. They don't allow any25 109 10/26/10 - WHOLE - RES. 1005871 private tow companies to tow up there,2 and they set their own rates. And they3 actually -- they tow every car back to4 the Parking Authority. They do not give5 the option to the consumer to have the6 vehicle towed any other place.7 LIEUTENANT HEALY: To be honest8 with you, I really wouldn't have a9 comment. It's a State Police matter.10 We're not involved in it in any way. So11 I really wouldn't even know anything12 about the contract per se. It's13 completely up to the State Police.14
It was15 done through a memo of understanding, and16 I think it's important as we look to17 fixing the towing rotation that we look18 at that, because my understanding is,19 it's just not on a memo of understanding20 between State Police and the Parking21 Authority. And I think that has created22 some of the hostility that you see with23 the towers saying, Here comes PPA coming24 into our industry again. And I want to25 110 10/26/10 - WHOLE - RES. 1005871 put that on the record because I think2 it's an important part of what's3 happening and why this has transpired and4 people feeling like we set them up to5 fail on this. We've already taken 956 from them. Now we set up a system here7 that we didn't enforce properly and here8 again we're going to impede on private9 industry. So it's the undertone, and I10 think it's important.11 LIEUTENANT HEALY: I agree with12 you completely, but the difference I13 would say on the highway, PPA is taking14 actually the towing as well as the15 storage, and what's being presented here16 would be that we're trying to still keep17 it open for the small towers that they18 could still have the business of doing19 the towing. It's just where the cars are20 being stored by PPA. That would be the21 distinction, but I understand where22 you're coming from.23
But I24 think that took a lot of business from25 111 10/26/10 - WHOLE - RES. 1005871 the tow operators already. So when we2 talk about taking -- we already took all3 of the highways, 76, 95. So now we're4 talking about potentially giving the rest5 of this over to PPA, and that's why6 there's a hostility back and forth,7 because it is a private industry piece,8 and the fact is that there's a monopoly9 there. You give them the rest of the10 City, it's a little bit too much power11 sometimes.12
I just have one13 thing to add. Originally when Rizzo14 presented the towing rotation, it was15 supposed to include the expressways. Is16 that true?17 LIEUTENANT HEALY: Pardon me?18
Originally --19 LIEUTENANT HEALY: Maybe the20 Councilman can answer that.21
It was all22 towing that was conducted within the23 County of Philadelphia. What happened24 was that there was a move to have the25 112 10/26/10 - WHOLE - RES. 1005871 Philadelphia Police reassigned from the2 I-95, the Vine Street extension and the3 Schuylkill Expressway. That patrol was4 taken over by the Pennsylvania State5 Police and at the same time, what my6 colleague Councilwoman Sanchez said, that7 that then became the responsibility of8 the Philadelphia Parking Authority,9 because the State Police by that letter10 of understanding indicated that the only11 tower that would respond to a wreck on12 any of those three highways would be the13 Philadelphia Parking Authority. No other14 towers, other than if your car became15 disabled, would be able to go and16 relocate the vehicle.17
That's18 all, Madam President. Thank you.19 COUNCIL PRESIDENT VERNA:20 You're welcome.21 Are there any other questions22 from members of the Committee of these23 witnesses?24 (No response.)25 113 10/26/10 - WHOLE - RES. 1005871
Thank2 you. Thank you very much.3 Our next witness?4
Samuel R. Marshall,5 President and CEO of the Insurance6 Federation of Pennsylvania, Incorporated;7 John R. Doubman, Secretary and Counsel of8 the Insurance Federation of Pennsylvania,9 Incorporated.10 (Witnesses approached witness11 table.)12
Good13 afternoon. Welcome. Kindly identify14 yourself for the record and proceed with15 your testimony.16
Thank you. 22 First, an introduction. The23 Insurance Federation is a trade24 association for the insurance industry25 114 10/26/10 - WHOLE - RES. 1005871 here in Pennsylvania. 10 Councilmember Rizzo's11 resolution and the changes to the City's12 rotational ordinance proposed by13 Councilmembers Kenney and Jones reflect14 two traits we've noticed in the attempt15 to address towing abuses. 20 Second, towing laws are only as21 good as they are enforced. Abusive22 towers are a brazen group, and laws23 preventing their most egregious and most24 profitable acts only work if rigorously25 115 10/26/10 - WHOLE - RES. 2 I'll confess a bias. First, we3 and our policyholders are the ones who4 get ripped off by towing abuses. 7 Second, whatever the weaknesses8 of the Philadelphia towing ordinance, at9 least you have one. We just finished a10 legislative session up in Harrisburg with11 a fairly mild towing consumer protection12 bill. It was sponsored by a democrat,13 House Insurance Committee Chairman Tony14 DeLuca from the Pittsburgh area. It was15 supported by the AAA. It was supported16 by Attorney General Tom Corbett, as you17 know, a republican. 24 So at the state level, we don't25 116 10/26/10 - WHOLE - RES. 1005871 even have a law. Consumers, whether2 they're insures or individuals, have3 nowhere to turn for help. As a city,4 you're way ahead of that curve. The5 current ordinance you have is better than6 nothing. 9 That said, I think you're10 seeing two things with your own11 ordinance. 21 Second, and probably most22 important, the ordinance needs better23 enforcement. We don't have enough24 experience with City agencies or with the25 117 10/26/10 - WHOLE - RES. 1005871 District Attorney's Office or the Parking2 Authority to give you any great advice on3 who is the best staff outfit to enforce4 the protections, but you need more5 protection. We can offer some experience6 as insurers, because we're pretty heavily7 regulated. The best enforcement comes8 before a violation occurs. 14 We also think and we urge that15 the City's efforts be enhanced by having16 a state law. We mentioned the efforts17 from a geographically and politically18 diverse group came up short in our19 legislative session. It may have been20 more of the clock running out than any21 substantive differences. I'm not sure22 what the objections to the statewide23 protections were, but in any event, we24 and the AAA and public officials ranging25 118 10/26/10 - WHOLE - RES. 1005871 from Tom Corbett to Tony DeLuca are going2 to be back next session. We hope that3 the City of Philadelphia gets involved at4 that state level. 12 So as you improve your own13 ordinance in both updating and enforcing14 it, I'd ask that you get involved in the15 state effort, working with the16 Philadelphia Delegation in both the17 Senate and the House and in working with18 others in the Legislature. That will19 help the rest of the state,20 Philadelphia's muscle being considerable,21 but I think it is also going to help22 Philadelphia by gaining another23 enforcement agency to clean up the24 problem that has plagued consumers too25 119 10/26/10 - WHOLE - RES. Thanks.
Thank5 you.6 Are there any questions of this7 witness?8 Councilman Rizzo.9
Madam10 President, I want to thank everyone today11 both from the Administration side, you12 personally and my colleagues in Council13 for taking the time to hear this14 important issue, and I'm confident that15 we will be able to resolve the issues16 associated with the current rotational17 towing system. And, again, Madam18 President, thank you for your indulgence.19 COUNCIL PRESIDENT VERNA:20 You're welcome.21 It is my understanding we don't22 have any other witnesses from our list.23 Is there anyone in the audience that24 would like to be recognized?25 120 10/26/10 - WHOLE - RES. 1005871 (No response.)2 COUNCIL PRESIDENT VERNA:3 Seeing no one, again, I thank you.4 This resolution will be5 continued until the call of the Chair.6 Thank you all very much.7 (Committee of the Whole8 adjourned at 12:05 p.m.)9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 121 CERTIFICATE2 I HEREBY CERTIFY that the3 proceedings, evidence and objections are4 contained fully and accurately in the5 stenographic notes taken by me upon the6 foregoing matter on October 26, 2010, and that7 this is a true and correct transcript of same.8 9 10 11 --------------------12 MICHELE L. MURPHY13 RPR-Notary Public14 15 16 17 18 (The foregoing certification of this19 transcript does not apply to any reproduction20 of the same by any means, unless under the21 direct control and/or supervision of the22 certifying reporter.)23 24 25