So you're aware that this is a halfway house.
Would that be, is that correct?
No, that is incorrect.
Halfway houses have a different jurisdiction and recovery houses are definitely very different
than 3.1 treatment facilities.
Are you aware that the residents of this house are going to be outside and away from the
house during the day yeah absolutely that's we encourage that that they should be able to go to
work and be productive members of society and how are they going to get to work so for them i mean
we're in the city of philadelphia we have this great thing called septa and i think that you
know folks can get to work they can walk in the community um you know again a facility that i
went to people walk down the street to the walmart or to the the wawa right and things like that you
know. So the residents, the clients that have cars, when they come to your facility, your policy is
going to be that they're not allowed to have those cars. Is that correct? Yeah, they're not allowed to
bring their cars. At this moment, we don't have parking for them. And I, you know, we don't want
to create the hindrance on the community in terms of parking. I know parking in Philadelphia is a
crazy thing. So you're feeding them only breakfast and dinner, or you also feed them lunch? So the
way it usually works in a facility like this is that there's I'm not asking you how it usually
works I'm asking you for this facility when are you feeding them and where are the cooks
I'm objecting that is not a zoning issue right how are you feeding them we just showed there's
a kitchen we didn't well there was no testimony that any cooks or any food personnel just showed
there's a kitchen where where are you personnel we just showed there's a kitchen okay that is
i objected to that right i i mean i i i think one of the things that he talked about steve mr
masters is about are people going out on a daily basis right i think the question he said was
are they going to eat lunch does anybody eat lunch there i i don't think that's a bad question
yeah i think i can answer to that i mean yes i agree that this is part of the operations which
doesn't really have a lot to do with the zoning but if people are going to be fed there yeah like
i think that the truth is is that again how it usually works in these facilities and we're at
the point where we're figuring this out because we're in the process of getting zoned if i to
remind you we you know we offer like snacks and things for the the residents to to have a lot of
residents that are on Medicaid or on other types of government assistance also receive food stamps,
right, the SNAP benefits. So they're allowed to purchase their own food, label it, which is,
again, common practice, and leave it in the facility. And they can also cook, right? Like,
again, like, just because they're addicts doesn't mean they're not capable of taking care of
themselves in that way. So let me just keep going forward. Ms. Daly, you are going to be
the operational manager of the facility or are you a temporary person in my my intent
mr masters is to be involved in this project from now
Mr. Masters, is to be involved in this project from now, as I have been, till foreseeable future,
right? You know, this project was inspired by my own story. I'm still talking, sir. I'm actually
trying to answer your question. Wait, wait, wait. Stop, stop, stop. Yeah.
Miss Daly, just answer the question. Yeah. And that's what I want you to do. Try to listen to
what he said and listen to if darwin objects then he objects and we'll figure it out but but i don't
want you going off on anything other than what he asked you absolutely so my question are you
are you the director of this facility because in the materials in your exhibit binder it says that
those positions are to be determined and that they're not assigned to you so that wasn't your
initial question but if you want to switch it to this question i'm happy to answer
is that you're now your question are you saying am i going to be you're not your role isn't to
ask me questions your role is to respond to my question she can ask for clarity sir
do you need me to repeat the question yeah go ahead okay the question is in your exhibit binder
it says that the director of the facility is to be determined you testified earlier that you are
the director of the facility which one is it so currently right now courtney um wandalowski who
you guys met earlier, is the interim director of the facility. Her entire job in this moment
as we're building to the facility is not only to get us supported, get us into a place where
she can, where we can operate in a functional and safe way. But after that, we are going to be
looking for a full director, right? In this moment, I can say that I'm going to be involved
in the project. But whether my position is director or something else, I can't give you
the Answer Masters. Your attorney said that you, to quote him, he said you will be leading the
operations. Is that not correct? Yes, but that's not the same as being a director. Okay. So you
are going to be a leader in operations. So tell us which other facilities you have been a lead
operator in before today. None. Have you ever been trained to be an operator of a 3.1 facility?
no okay um the hours of operation you're you're proposing how many hours per week of therapy to
each client that is aligned there's like an actual legal amount that has to be offered
are you asking about group therapy i'm asking if you know what the legal amount is and if you can
tell me whether you're at the bare minimum or if you're actually accentuating it to give them more
more therapy than they're than you're required to go i i'm kind of objecting to this because
that's asking a medical treatment question that is not her position so that it's dealing with
operations she will facilitate a medical officer a medical therapist to come in and and and that
therapist could could could explain that clearly so i object to that question well so so mr masters
i i agree with that i i mean i think we gotta just stay focused here on okay so miss daly you
do you know uh what the requirements are for 3.1 licensing in the state of pennsylvania
i'm not a medical doctor so that's not my wheelhouse no but i wasn't asking you about
the therapy. I was asking you for the licensing requirements. Are you familiar with what's
required of personnel at a facility? He is asking, are you at the level to give licensing,
to feed them, and to give them medical treatment? It's still the same type of question.
I think I but I hear your objection, but I think he can say, you know, do you do you know how how you're going to operate this?
Right. If you're leading operations, do you know what the operational requirements are from the state for this facility?
If she knows. Yeah. So I'm one of the people that would be leading operations. Right.
And what I'm trying to say is that I'm not a medical doctor and different people's needs change. Right.
the bare minimum for the state of Pennsylvania is certain hours of group therapy, certain hours
of the individual therapy. Right. And so for me though, that doesn't always cut it. And some
folks need to take more and it drops down oftentimes over, over time that people are in a
facility. Right. So our goal is going to be have a comprehensive facility that treats our patients
on a like case by case basis. Right. Like someone might need five individual therapy sessions.
someone might need three wait a minute wait a minute wait go ahead steve um you are gonna have
Go ahead, Steve.
You are going to have, you want up to 56 clients in this facility.
Is that correct?
And how many contracts have you been negotiating for referrals for this facility?
I'm glad you asked.
Yeah, go ahead, Derwin.
no i don't understand the relevance of this because it's it's he's basically
trying to present to the board by wearing a chicken and an egg situation you know
darling you can make a little bit let me i think there's a legitimate i think he's saying
you got 56 people you want where are you going to get them from i i think that's what he said
I need to know whether you, if you're leading operations, is that something that you know about? Is there someone else who can come on to this hearing and tell us where you're going to be getting your clients from? Are they going to be Medicaid clients? Are they going to be self-pay? Are they going to be from some other insurance?
I want to understand where these people are coming from, who they are, how many of them are involved in the criminal justice system.
And I want to know how you're how you're planning to fund this this program and who's going to pay for the for your services.
Yeah, if she knows, if she knows. Yeah, I can give a little bit of answer to that.
Like I'll say one, a three point one facility is only Medicaid just to make it clear for you.
There's no like three point one is Medicaid. It's only through Medicaid.
patients, right? We already have a contract written down and actually signed, but obviously
we need a facility first to be able to get some of these more contracts, and there'll be months
and months of renovations. But we do have a contract already with the American Treatment
Network. American Treatment Network in Haverford or Havertown? Yes.
So the contract, can you produce a copy of that contract for us?
objection what's the objection how do we know you know what you know why here's the objection
because right we sent a letter of support that they sent to councilman squilla right
evidencing that there is an agreement between american treatment center and this facility
so that that that should suffice it's well i'm well well i'm not giving you what our
When our witness comes in, we'll figure out how this facility could possibly receive Medicaid funding unless they have a contract not with American.
And again, I further my objection because you're getting into federal dollars that should not be before the board.
So I agree that we don't have to see where every dollar is.
I think his questions about where the people are coming from, how you're going to run the day-to-day operations are legitimate questions.
So why don't we see if we can't move on?
And I believe her testimony said American Treatment Network will be funneling patients.
And she said they have a contract.
yeah okay so this daily um is your contract with american treatment centers that they're going to
produce 56 people up to 56 when you get up to your full capacity or is there a lower number
that you're contracting with them so um i apologize i'm just going to say this it's not
contracting like they're they're we're selling cattle here right it's something that we can
have patients be referred to us, but it's not like a one-for-one situation. I can speak to what
our plans are if we are approved to how we're going to get other patients to fill the 56 beds.
Sure. Yeah. So a lot of that is often done with networking and working with other treatment
facilities. So there are, I can't give you the number right now. Courtney was still on. I know
as she could. There are multiple detox centers in the city of Philadelphia. As we know, there's
a large opioid crisis that is hitting the city of Philadelphia. And so there's a lot of detox
centers, right? And there's a lot of hospitalizations. Again, we don't- Can I pause?
So the detox centers, you're talking about outpatient services, right? No, that's not
what a detox center is. You're talking about residential 3.5s? No, that's not what I'm speaking
of. I'm talking about when you go to get detoxed, medical detox, when you go into a hospital.
Okay. All right. So like, so crisis kind of like that.
Yeah. There's, there's many,
there's many different services across the many fine hospitals of
Philadelphia. And so there's those spaces, right.
Where people could be referred to our 3.1 facility.
Obviously if they're deemed medically well, another process is that they're.
Wait, let's just stop.
So you're saying that some hospitals where people are being detoxed are
So you're saying that some hospitals where people are being detoxed are going to refer people to your facility?
going to refer.
That's what you're saying?
Yeah, if they are medically cleared to do so.
Okay, and who is going to provide the funding for those people?
The hospitals don't provide the funding.
Again, objection.
Objection, objection, objection.
So, Steve, where the money comes from and how much money is there, that's not the issue.
I think it's legitimate to say where are you going to get patients from, but I think the money issue is not.
Well, Mr. Chair, the viability of this operation basically comes down to several things.
Do they have an ability to bring people into this facility to get services?
and also do they have an ability to be paid for those for each of those people and what
all around right let's let let's take notice of this mayor parker just announced a hundred
million dollars towards this effort right there is not a health commissioner
i'm objecting right now you know wait wait wait excuse me can i interject please
can i interject please okay let me interject please thank you so i think the the economic
viability of the project is not a voting issue however i understand that how the project is
funded has to do with how it's regulated and that is a concern for the protestants so any
conversations having to do with funding need to be focused on on the source of funding not as terms
of how much but if there is it if if the fund if the funding is the funding that would set it up
for what type of regulation because it's the it's the conduct which is of concern and this is a
special exception case so let's stay away from the economic viability of the project because that is
not a zoning issue. Okay, fair enough. Let me switch to criminal justice issues. So Ms. Daly,
you testified that you were going to screen for certain people with past offenses for
sex offenses and for violence. Is that correct? For violent crimes and sex offenders as outlined
in the CBA. Okay. So, but you would concede, wouldn't you, that other residents of this
program will probably have been interacting with the criminal justice system and have records of
arrests and confinement? Yes, sir. Okay. So you have one security guard. Is that person 24 hours
a day, or are they only there for certain hours a day? So as I outlined before, I think the security
guard would really be stationed more overnight because during the day, there'll be much more
staff that'll also be trained on security. When you say trained on security, are you
stating to us that they're going to be trained on how to deal with people who have deep interactions
with the criminal justice system and that they've worked in in the past or been trained in some
specific way to handle people who have criminal backgrounds wait because i didn't understand
your question did you did you say that the residents will be uh their criminal background
um let me let me restate it so you're saying that that the other staff this like six or
seven people, including, I suppose, some of the people who are preparing your food,
are going to be trained in some ways to handle people who have long and involved histories in
the criminal justice system? Well, I think in one way you are making an assumption about
folks that they are involved in the criminal justice system. Again, I showed that I'm in
recovery and I've never even been arrested. I have some parking tickets, though. But I will say that
like you know they will be trained on how to de-escalate and that's an important aspect right
um i'm just not sure if you could maybe clarify what your your
like what the question really had to do with you know she stated we'll have security night
and in the daytime we can have staff who will be trained in different things and that's where we
right okay so let's try to concentrate on that all right so um what's the average stay that
you're estimating in your facility for each of these residents is it one week two weeks three
weeks and how do you and and how are you calculating um you know the turnover um for
for each of the residents so again i can speak to like what you know long-term care is long
So, again, I can speak to, like, what, you know, long-term care is long-term care. The definition of long-term care is not actually defined in one way or another. There is spaces where Medicaid will cover up to a certain time period, and that period is up to six months.
And so, you know, but that doesn't necessarily mean that like some residents may not end up staying longer or things like that.
It's all kind of individualized care. Again, addiction can be an individualized disease.
OK, are you aware of all the other three point one facilities in Philadelphia and how long those the residents stay in those facilities based on their contracts with CBH?
No, I'm not, sir.
Okay. So when you're saying that it could be up to six months, is it based on anything in reality
from the state of Pennsylvania? No, but from other facilities I'm aware of.
In other states? Yes, sir. Okay. Because you don't really have any experience in Pennsylvania,
is that correct? Define experience? Working, operating, or consulting with substance use
disorder treatment centers in the state of pennsylvania i don't have that in any state
as i mentioned to you before okay um i don't have any more questions for this time
darwin what's who's your next person i just want a little redirect um so so so darwin if you take