did not exceed 65 feet i think the same same questions uh would have to be dealt with it
if he did that as opposed to and we have a totally separate agreement with the magic gardens mr
chairman exhibit 13 of our of our exhibits that is in agreement with them they will have a fund
miss smith will testify as to the fund that will be set aside to you know preserve the uh the bride
so you know they they take into account all this we've done it and that's what she's going to
testify to when she testifies and she's not mr i think mr holliman tommy had a question yes i think
all of that will be covered under a certificate of insurance on the project thank you thank you
Mr. Aplonsky?
Jim Polsky.
Jim Polsky.
Okay, I have my next witness if there's nothing further for Mr. Zakin.
Okay, Mr. Mariano, please proceed.
I'd like to call Emily Smith.
she's available to be sworn in chair
thank you please identify yourself your full name spell your full name and i'll swear you in
Emily Smith. M-I-L-Y S-M-I-T-H. Emily, do you swear for him to tell the truth,
the whole truth, nothing but the truth? Yes, sir. Thank you. Please proceed, Mr. Medellini.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Emily, what's your profession? I am the Executive Director of
Philadelphia's Magic Gardens. What are your responsibilities as Executive Director?
I'm responsible for the strategic vision of the organization, making sure we don't stray from our values, our mission, all of our fiscal responsibilities, managing 20 employees, working closely with our founding artist, Isaiah Zagar, and I'm also a member of the preservation team.
What is the Magic Gardens?
we're a non-profit art museum located in the art environment that was created by isaiah
zagar that's located on 10th and south we opened in 2008 and we educate the public
and tours events exhibitions outreach preservation you know the whole nine yards
before covid uh we were serving over 175 000 visitors annually and we have an economic
an impact of millions of dollars for our local community.
And did the Magic Gardens prepare what I've got up on the screen, and which is Exhibit 6 in the materials presented, a condition report, and the next exhibit, which is Exhibit 7, a repair plan regarding restoration of the cigar mosaic at the Painted Bride?
And did the Magic Gardens prepare what I've got up
on the screen and which is exhibit six?
Could you make that larger?
Chairman, respectfully, I just need to object to this witness, this evidence that's being
entered into, and the testimony of this witness.
What grounds?
Relevance.
I mean, her testimony isn't relevant.
The condition report isn't relevant because here's the thing.
Aesthetics aren't relevant.
Mr. Marcioni says this is about aesthetics, and the zoning board doesn't do aesthetics.
And that's all this is.
I'll agree with that, but I think that the condition assessment may go to Mr. Jomplowski's questions about what the Magic Gardens nonprofit could do as it relates to preserving the painted bride or any damage that may occur during construction.
understood, Mr. Chairman, but the whole question as to preserving this skin of the bride isn't
relevant to your legal analysis when you offer relief, and that's what I needed to put on the
record. I believe it's totally relevant, Mr. Chairman. The basis of preserving the bride,
it's an impediment to the property, and we're entitled to preserve it, and Mr. Yampolsky
specifically asked about conditions, repair plan, and also our ability to preserve it and present
it from having any further damage and how we're going to address those issues. So,
you know, I think it's totally relevant. It's something I agree. It's an aesthetic.
Zoning board doesn't do aesthetic. But it's, again, it goes to Mr. Iampolsky's questions,
I think yes no one's requiring the bride to be saved period the whole basis of this testimony
we understand that but if the board were to uh grant this variance then some of those issues
that have been put on the record about preservation short-term long-term uh
uh or noted in on the record and i believe it that it's relevant to to our decision
mr chairman if the board would base the preservation of the skin of the bride uh on
your the decision based on that then the zoning board would become the de facto last place
i just it's part of that discussion well then every wall covering in the city and he should
just go and tear the damn thing down, and we can end this hearing in three seconds.
Absolutely. I completely agree. I'm sure you would. Okay. You take your structures as they
come, Mr. Chairman. The zoning board is also not out there telling people to demolish structures
no matter what they are, and we are entitled to work around the structure that we have. It's no
different than the Marshall case where the Supreme Court said preserving a school made sense.
It was something that came with the property. This is exactly the same thing. It's a mosaic that comes with the property. It happens to have been completed by a world-renowned artist, but it is something that we are entitled to work to seek to provide. We should not be required to demolish a structure just because somebody doesn't like the aesthetics of it.
No one, you're not required to tear it down, but you're also not expected to get more than 65 feet. That's your decision.
That's why there's a zoning.
That's why we're here.
Thank you.
Next question for Ms. Smith.
Would you describe to the board the present condition of the mosaic?
Yes, it's very typical, if not a bit better than anticipated for a Zagar mural that's more than 30 years old and is completely exposed to the elements and has never done any repair work.
The majority of the mural is fine. I would say about 70% is completely fine and only needs to
be cleaned. The remaining needs some simple repairs and about 15% of that requires more
in-depth repair work. And is the Magic Gardens prepared to complete all of the recommendations
in the report and the plan? Yes, and we would be thrilled to do it. And did the Magic Gardens
enter into another agreement, which is exhibit 13, an agreement to preserve the skin of the
bride mural with the developer at the painted bride site. Yeah, we have a signed agreement
to work together to preserve the mural throughout construction and later, and it is dependent on the
ZBA outcome today. And that's at exhibit 13? Yes, I think so. And what does that
And that's at Exhibit 13?
Yes, I think so.
And what does that agreement obligate the Magic Gardens to do?
We would work together with Shimi's team to document and prepare the mural first for the construction process.
And then we would make any repairs necessary as construction is completed.
Then after that, we would clean and seal the mural.
And then going forward, we would perform any annual assessments needed.
And is the Magic Gardens capable of complying with the covenant in that agreement?
Does the Magic Gardens have the financial capability of complying with requirements of the preservation agreement?
Yes, we do.
And there have been many statements made regarding the cost to restore and maintain the mosaic.
How do you know that your cost estimates are accurate?
well anyone who claimed the amount of money it would take to preserve this mural or not
they never did a full assessment of the mural nor did they ever speak to us or to the artist
who's still alive our estimate is based on our detailed assessment and our repair plan which
which you see here and as I said the majority of the mosaic actually does not need much work
Our estimate is based on the square footage of supplies needed, which we know from many years of previous experience.
And our estimate for repairs is between $35,000 and $50,000 for this project.
And does the Magic Gardens have staff who will complete the work as part of their jobs for the Magic Gardens?
Yes, we have three full-time preservationists whose only job is to work on zagar mosaics.
They work every day on mosaics that are in very similar conditions to what you would find at the Cana Bride.
We also, of course, have Isaiah Zagar. He's the artist.
He's 82. And even though he's going a bit slower, he's also a member of our team.
And so he would be a part of that process as well.
And what assurances can you provide the board and the public that the Magic Gardens can prepare the mosaic for construction?
and once construction is completed complete any restoration necessary and also maintain the
mosaic into the future well we we know the current state of the mural right so we just need to
properly prepare any areas of concern and then in our agreement which we've already signed
shimmies engineers and our engineers work together to make sure that we have the appropriate bracing
to protect the facade and then when we get to a certain point of the construction process we can
complete our repairs which like I said it's not going to be anything new for us it's going to
take some time probably take months of time and then we're going to clean and seal the whole
mural and then actually with Shimmy's design for the building the overhang which hasn't been
mentioned yet in this in this meeting it actually protects the mural in a way that it's never been
protected before because the biggest threat to the mural like this one is water penetration
from above. So moving forward, it's going to be much better taken care of. And of course,
we're going to be doing annual assessments as well, so we can always react as needed. So after
those main repairs and the building is completed, we're looking at a much better situation moving
forward. And does the Magic Gardens have a separate fund available for the expenses predicted
to be expended in efforts to maintain and preserve and repair the mosaic. Yeah, we have a restricted
fund of over $280,000 for preservation purposes only, such as these, and we have rolling contributions
each year to that fund, and I would just add that we didn't touch any of that money during the COVID
crisis so we're ready to go i have no further questions mr chairman thank you any questions
for this witness from the board no no okay any questions from council
yes other council questions mr cook yes mr chairman hi good morning
Good morning.
Ms. Smith, did you testify at the Historic Commission hearing when it was attempted to preserve the skin of the bride?
Objection, Mr. Chairman. That's a different setting. It's a different hearing and the issues that are decided.
Understood. And can we stipulate that Ms. Smith and others, Ms. Golden and others, testified in front of the Historical Commission, and the Historical Commission did not designate this as an historical building.
and the historical commission did not designate this as an historical building.
Can we stipulate to that?
I will stipulate if we can stipulate that these witnesses testified there.
They testified here.
Their testimony was materially similar or the same there as is here.
And their goal there was to preserve the mural.
And their goal here is to preserve the mural.
objection with respectively historical commission and what they did didn't do i'm asking a relevant
question about whether or not this this this witness has testified before regarding this
matter in the same fashion with the same goal it is relevant to a question of law that will be on
appeal i think we can stipulate to that yes we can stipulate yeah to all three of those aspects
correct we stipulate that she testified before the historical commission
may i may i ask if her goal is the same here as it was there mr chairman i i think it's obvious
okay that's fine as long as it's stipulated too i have no problem with that yes all right thank you
thank you
any other questions for this witness
Mr. Matteoni, I have one additional witness, Scott Holsinger.
No one has their hand raised.
be under another name mike scott holsinger he just texted me
yes he's about to speak all right can you guys hear me now yes good morning please identify
yourself spell your full name and i'll swear you in good morning uh my name is scott holsinger
s-c-o-t-t-h-o-l-s-i-n-g-e-r you're a firm to tell the truth the whole truth nothing but the truth
Yes, I do.
Thank you, Mr. Mayor.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
And what is your profession or occupation?
I'm a structural engineer.
I've been a structural engineer for 26 years.
And is the exhibit that's on the screen, is that a copy of your CV?
Yes, it is.
And is it reasonably accurate in terms of your qualifications to testify today?
It is.
And did you review the framing and foundation concept for the project, the 230 Vine Street, prepared by the architect?
I did. Yes, we discussed it and came up with a structural concept.
Did you review the architectural plans for 230 Vine Street?
I did.
And do these plans provide protection for the cigar mosaic on the exterior of the painted bride?
Yes, in combination with the structural concept in which, at the ground level, we bring all the structural columns and foundations inboard away from the perimeter, neighboring, and mosaic structures, and then use piles that are drilled into the ground instead of driven into the ground.
It's the best solution to protect the existing structures.
Yes. And does that foundation, the way you're going to do the foundation, I don't know if I
have the correct engineering term, but however you're going to do whatever it is, it supports
the structure. Is that done not only to preserve the mosaic, but will that also limit any adverse
impact on surrounding properties? Yes, absolutely. It's a micropile foundation system. Micropiles
are four to seven inch diameter steel pipes that are drilled into the ground. And we would do that
inboard six to eight feet away from the perimeter existing structures. And we do that specifically
to protect and significantly, extremely reduce the risk of any damage to those structures.
And explain how the floors are designed, you know, the second floor, third floor, fifth floor,
how they're designed above the mosaic and the extra work that this entails.
Sure, sure. So because we're bringing in that ground floor foundation and steel column structures in six to ten feet away from the perimeter structures,
the building above the podium levels above at the second and third floor levels have to cantilever out six to ten feet from those building columns
in order to fill out the footprint of the building, and then above that, they then have
to carry the weight of the building above on those cantilevers. So those cantilevers, in order to
on those cantilevers. So those cantilevers, in order to carry the weight of the above,
are quite large in terms of steel beam size and cost of construction.
And are you confident that through this construction
system or process that the Zegar Mosaic will be preserved?
Yes, yes. You know, as was said here, anything can go wrong accidentally, but in terms of a
design concept. I've used this concept and this type of design before at historical sites,
and I'm confident that it's by far the best system to preserve the existing structures.
And as a structural engineer, from a structural engineering perspective,
will the proposed 85-foot hike cause any significantly greater impact on neighboring
properties than the 65-foot hike permitted? I do not believe so, no.
What impact, I'm sorry, with respect to impact on the foundation of the neighboring properties, we covered that, I'm sorry.
It's important to note, though, Michael, we're not doing any underpinning, not digging a basement and pulling, you know, drilling piles inboard away from the structures is being done specifically to protect neighboring structures.
And is the construction process proposed, is that the least impactful when preparing a foundation on all the structures surrounding it and also the mosaic?
Absolutely.
And can you explain again why?
Yes. Yeah. If we were to go to a spread footing foundation, we would have large footings that would require us to underpin the mosaic or neighboring structures.
structures and you know as everybody knows anytime you go underpinning you you're undermining the
structure so that you can put a new foundation in we specifically do not want to do that or avoiding
anything to do with that and what we're doing is we're drilling four inch to seven inch diameter
steel pipes into the ground um six to ten feet away from the perimeter existing structures