Committee Hearing, March 28, 2007

COUNCIL OF THE CITY OF PHILADELPHIA COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE - BUDGET - - - Room 400, City Hall Philadelphia, Pennsylvania Wednesday, March 28, 2007 10:30 a.m. - - - PRESENT: COUNCIL PRESIDENT ANNA C. VERNA COUNCILWOMAN JANNIE BLACKWELL COUNCILMAN DARRELL L. CLARKE COUNCILMAN FRANK DiCICCO COUNCILMAN WILLIAM GREENLEE COUNCILMAN JACK KELLY COUNCILMAN JAMES F. KENNEY COUNCILWOMAN DONNA REED MILLER COUNCILMAN JUAN RAMOS COUNCILMAN FRANK RIZZO COUNCILMAN DANIEL SAVAGE BILLS 070114, 070115, 070116 RESOLUTION 070128 - - - V A R A L L O Incorporated Litigation Support Services Eleven Penn Center 1835 Market Street, Suite 600 Philadelphia, Pennsylvania 19103 215.561.2220 215.567.2670 2

Good morning, everyone. This is the continued public hearing of the Committee of the Whole. The first department to testify will be the Fire Department. Good morning, Commissioner. Kindly identify yourself for the record and proceed with your testimony. COMMISSIONER AYERS: Good morning, Council President Verna and members of City Council. I am Fire Commissioner Lloyd Ayers. With me is David Beatrice, Acting Deputy Commissioner for Administrative Services. The Fire Department's Fiscal Year '08 Operating Budget request proposes $190,107,667 for the General Fund; $5,493,025 for the Aviation Fund; and $1,410,000 for the Grants Fund, for a grand total of $197,010,692. This is an increase of $1,598,100 over the Fiscal Year '07 estimated obligations. The $176,783,434 budgeted for 3 3/28/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114, ETC. Class 100 personnel services includes funding for civilian and uniform members' contracted pay raises. It also includes funding to start the delivery of the Special Operations Command Technical Rescue School Class No. 2. Since last year's testimony, the Fire Department has hired 330 new firefighters. The last 160 of these recruits are due to graduate from the Fire Academy on May 25th. Overtime costs for Fiscal Year '08 are projected to be lowered by $7,561,613. 2 percent reduction from $31,279,613 to $23,718,000. The Department hired 15 paramedics on October 2006 and in this process of hiring an additional 15 paramedics, we are in the process of hiring 15 additional paramedics who are projected to start next month. The Fire Department is working with the Personnel Department to establish a new list so that we can continue to hire paramedics 4 3/28/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114, ETC. as they become available. 5 percent Class 100 reduction. 5 percent Class 100 reduction in funding for civilian positions. The number of authorized dispatchers in our 9-1-1 call center is being reduced from 54 to 52. In our general support division, a support clerk position will be eliminated. The balance of the savings will be generated through delays in hiring. The total projected salary savings from this reduction are $138,985. The Class 200 total of $6,181,013 reflects a net Fiscal Year '08 increase of $138,804. One hundred and fifty thousand dollars is being added to fund the emergency medical billing services contract. In Fiscal Year '07, Class 200 was increased by $11,196. That funding was needed to pass through a state reimbursement payment to several private ambulance services that provided medical services to Hurricane Katrina 5 3/28/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114, ETC. victims who landed in Philadelphia International Airport. In Fiscal Year '08, the $11,196 is being removed from the budget, as it is no longer needed. Per contract arbitration, the City now provides each member two sets of bunker gear instead of one. In Fiscal Year '07, $793,000 was added to the Class 300 budget to complete the purchase of this additional protective gear. Now that the purchase of this second set is complete, $673,000 of the funding is not required in Fiscal Year '08 and has been removed from Class 300. The total Class 300/400 budget for Fiscal Year '08 is $6,639,467. The Fire Department is charged by the Water Department for a share of the cost of maintaining the fire hydrant system throughout our City. The Fiscal Year '08 -- in Fiscal Year '08, the scheduled rate increase is projected to increase the cost from $7,033,000 to $7,313,400. This $280,400 increase is in 6 3/28/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114, ETC. Class 800. Service enhancements and accomplishments: The Fire Department responded to 9,523 fires in Fiscal Year '06, down percent from a five-year 7 high of 11,399 fires in Fiscal Year '02. 28 10 percent, from the Fiscal Year '05 total 11 of 2,191. For Fiscal Year '07 and '08, 12 we are projecting similar reductions. 13 In Fiscal Year '06, there were 14 50 fire deaths.

That is nearly a 17 15 percent decrease from the 60 fire deaths 16 recorded in Fiscal Year '05. At 29 of the fire death incidents, there were no 18 smoke alarms present. At an additional three fire death incidents, there was no 20 battery or a dead battery in the smoke alarm. I am saddened to report that recently there has been a spike in fire deaths. At the end of February Fiscal Year '07, there have been 39 fire deaths. 7 3/28/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114, ETC. At 21 of the 39 death incidents, there were no smoke alarms present. At an additional five incidents, the battery was dead or missing. For the Fire Department even one resident injured or killed is too many. Because of this, we are redoubling our efforts to educate and remind all Philadelphians and visitors of the importance of proper installation and maintenance of smoke alarms. It further drives my efforts to provide a free smoke alarm to every citizen of Philadelphia in need. Under our Smoke Alarm Distribution program, the Department distributed 8,125 smoke alarms to low-income residents in Fiscal Year '06. That is a 30 percent increase from the number distributed in Fiscal Year '05. The Kidde Company, a major smoke alarm manufacturer, and Channel 6 ABC donated many of the alarms. Through our Operation Stand Down program, members of the field fire 8 3/28/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114, ETC. companies distributed fire prevention education literature and installed smoke alarms in homes in targeted high-risk areas, such as areas with recent fire deaths. During Fiscal Year '06, the field firefighting members performed 30,117 block checks, made 1,093 Fire Code referrals, distributed approximately 20,000 pieces of fire prevention literature and visited 2,920 groups at events such as block parties and Town Watch meetings. I am pleased to report that in Fiscal Year '06 fire prevention unit staff members conducted 190 safety programs in our City schools, over 300 programs in hospitals and nursing homes and daycare centers, and 258 inspections related to high-rise buildings. In Fiscal Year '07, we are on target to meet or exceed those numbers of fire prevention programs. As part of the City's 9 3/28/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114, ETC. comprehensive emergency preparedness strategy to be ready to respond to terrorist attacks or natural disasters, the Department participated in two regional anti-terrorism drills with Bucks, Chester, Delaware and Montgomery Counties. The drills, held in May 2006 and December 2006, were designed to strengthen the interoperability, communications and emergency response capabilities of the region. To support emergency preparedness efforts, the Department will initiate Special Operations Command Technical Rescue School for a new class of uniform personnel. The training curriculum encompasses the main disciplines of technical rescue operations, such as building collapse, high angle rope rescue, confined space rescue, extrication, water rescue, et cetera, as well as terrorism and weapons of mass destruction operations. The training will be provided to 48 uniform 10 3/28/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114, ETC. personnel. Four utility trucks and a jet-ski water craft were acquired in Fiscal Year '07 with funds from a Pennsylvania State Homeland Security grant. The trucks will be used to transport and store equipment and supplies used by the Special Operations Command and the HAZMAT Mitigation units. The water craft will be used for river and flood rescue operations. The cost of all the vehicles was $788,698. The Department anticipates taking delivery of two new American LaFrance trucks by the end -- these are ladder trucks -- by the end of June. Each ladder truck is valued at $649,000. The Department has on order an additional four ladder trucks and five pumper trucks, delivery of these nine vehicles to take place throughout Fiscal Year '08. As a point of information, the cost of a pumper truck is $389,000. In response to the 11 3/28/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114, ETC.

ever-increasing demand for emergency medical services, the City Council last year added $1 million to our Fiscal Year '07 General Fund budget to increase the number of medic units. By July 18, 2006, the Department had activated Medic Units 42, 43, 44 and 45. These medic units provide added coverage during peak EMS demand periods. The Department currently deploys a total of 45 units as follows: full-time Advanced Life Support units, 14 12 peak demand Advanced Life Support 15 units, four full-time Basic Life Support 16 units and five peak demand Basic Life 17 Support units. 18 In June 2006, the Department 19 began to deploy specially trained 20 paramedic bicycle teams at large events, 21 such as the International Cycling 22 Championship, the ODUNDE Festival, the 23 Manayunk Arts Festival and the New Year's 24 Day Parade. The bikes allow paramedics to maneuver through crowds to provide a 12 3/28/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114, ETC. fast medical response. The bike team paramedics provide treatment and stabilization service until a transporting medic unit arrives. The average incident response time is one minute. The Department, in an effort to further improve emergency medical services, is in the process of obtaining two Segway vehicles through a Pennsylvania Department of Health grant. In June 2006, the Fire Communications Center installed a Verizon Vesta/Plant 9-1-1 phone system. This state-of-the-art phone system is interfaced with the computer-aided dispatch system and is Enhanced 9-1-1 Phase 2 compliant. Features such as automatic call distribution and instant call replay greatly enhance our call response system capability. The Fire Communications Center also replaced all fire station 9-1-1 watch desk computers, utilizing a high speed, broadband 13 3/28/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114, ETC. wireless network to supplement 9-1-1 dispatches. We are in the process of installing a new upgraded computer-aided dispatch system. Full implementation is anticipated to occur in early May of this year. This new Command Point CAD system will utilize GIS and computer mapping applications to provide more precise and effective resource dispatch and monitoring capabilities. The 9-1-1 phone system will be directly interfaced to the CAD and will provide 9-1-1 caller location information in a mapping format to the emergency dispatchers. Also, for the first time, this CAD system will be a shared City asset, promoting interoperability response amongst the Fire, Police and Public Property departments. Underway is a project to deploy Mobile Data Terminals in 18 of the Department's command vehicles. These terminals will provide members with 14 3/28/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114, ETC. needed information that will be used to improve command and control operations at incident scenes. The next goal of the Department would be to install Mobile Data Terminals in all engine and ladder company vehicles by the end of Fiscal Year '09. In Fiscal Year '08, the Department plans to expand the pilot National Fire Incident Reporting System project department-wide. This software system will enable the Department to produce detailed and summary management reports useful in the operation of the Fire Department. The State of Pennsylvania has selected this firehouse software as the standard fire incident reporting system for the state. I am excitedly looking forward to fully implementing the new Fire Safety Representative program which started in June 2006. I would like to have one person on each City block to be a point of contact with the Fire Department by 15 3/28/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114, ETC. e-mail to his or her local fire station. The civilian Fire Safety Representative would be provided with the most up-to-date fire safety information to pass back to neighbors. The goal of this program is to have a system of neighbors helping neighbors in preventing fires, injuries and needless loss of life.

With the Fire Safety Representatives, Station Captains and Fire Department management all working together, I see this program as an opportunity to improve the quality of life in our neighborhoods citywide on a block-by-block basis. That concludes my testimony. I would like to take this opportunity to thank Council for its continued support of our members in the Philadelphia Fire Department. I speak not only for myself but for all the members of the Fire Department in saying that I appreciate everything that you do for us and thank you very much. I'll take questions if you have any. 16 3/28/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114, ETC.

Thank you very much, Commissioner. City Council added $1 million to your FY07 budget for the hiring of additional paramedics, and you mention in your testimony you are having difficulty in filling these positions. Can you tell us what steps are being taken to ensure that you will fill those positions? COMMISSIONER AYERS: Yes. Currently, what we are doing is working with all of the area training hospitals and training corporations that train the paramedics. We know that we have many paramedics currently in school and consistently going into school. So what we have is a constant flow coming out. And these are the 15's and the 15's and the nine's and eight's that we get periodically to come in and fill those slots. What we also have is the fact that in this flow, we have currently, the way that we operate, 30 positions that 17 3/28/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114, ETC. need to be filled that are unfilled. We backfill those with overtime and with emergency medical technicians currently and we look -- we're looking at it, and at some point in the future, we will have those slots filled. But it's not as large of a gap as we had before. Slowly but surely they're coming out. And also we're working with Personnel. Personnel actually shortened the process to test and have a list ready for us, and they've been very cooperative. So once one list is --

Have you ever requested a residency waiver for these positions? COMMISSIONER AYERS: No, I have not.

And you say that the Personnel Department is working with you to expeditiously go through the process -- COMMISSIONER AYERS: Yes. 18 3/28/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114, ETC.

-- so that you will be able to hire? COMMISSIONER AYERS: Yes. Immediately when we finish a list, another test is given and a list is established and we start another class.

So you're not having the difficulty that you had last year this time in filling the positions; is that what you're leading me to believe? COMMISSIONER AYERS: No, I'm not leading you to believe that. What I'm saying is that the process that is currently being used gives us a flow of paramedics. It's not -- we don't get 100 paramedics at once, but we do get paramedics filling these spots, and the gap is shrinking, but it's shrinking slowly.

So how many vacancies do you have? COMMISSIONER AYERS: The way the system is currently configured, there 19 3/28/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114, ETC. are 30, and we're waiting to put in a class of now. 4

15? 5 COMMISSIONER AYERS: Yes. 6

How 7 many EMS units do you currently have? 8 COMMISSIONER AYERS: We have 45 9 units. 10

And 11 how many of these are Advanced Life 12 Support units? 13 COMMISSIONER AYERS: Of the 14 Advanced Life Supported units, we have -- 15 the Department currently deploys a total of 45 medic units as follows: 24 full-time Advanced Life Support units, 12 peak demand Advanced Life Support units, four full-time Basic Life Support units and five peak demand units and they are Basically Life Support units. So that's a total of 45. And as you can see, they are deployed in a way where they would have the most impact on the demand from the citizens. 20 3/28/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114, ETC.

Can you tell us where the ALS units are located? COMMISSIONER AYERS: Yes, I can. I'll get that to you in a --

I ask that because I think I sent you a letter that I had received, I guess, last summer or last fall from a constituent in Southwest Philadelphia that she had to -- she had called 9-1-1 and had to wait at least 45 minutes. She said she kept hearing the sirens going around and thinking to herself, Oh, they're going to be here any second now, but apparently the firefighter could not find the street or the location. I would think that they would have a map that they would be able to refer to. I had another constituent who tells me in Southwest Philadelphia who had to call 9-1-1 and waited and waited and waited, and finally when the firefighters arrived, she said, What on 21 3/28/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114, ETC. earth took you so long? They said, Well, we had to come from 12th and Shunk. Now, that doesn't seem to me to be a very logical way of dealing with somebody who may be having a heart attack, to have to come from 12th and Shunk to go to Southwest Philadelphia. I just think that public safety has to be our top priority. Now, why would that happen? COMMISSIONER AYERS: The emergency medical calls have continually been on an upswing. We do more calls every year. It's a constant bear on the system. One of the things that happened is when the system is busy and you have medic units that are running on calls all over the City, the system does bog down. That's why we have peak units to pick up this volume right now. So it's not a thing where --

Well, the peak units, have they come into 22 3/28/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114, ETC. existence since last summer? COMMISSIONER AYERS: I beg your pardon?

You're talking about the peak units. Have they come into existence since last summer? COMMISSIONER AYERS: No. The peak units have been in existence for a long time. We've added more.

I still think that when -- COMMISSIONER AYERS: We've added more units.

-- you have somebody from Southwest Philadelphia who has to wait for a unit to come from 12th and Shunk, that's a problem, because if one is having a heart attack, you know as I do three minutes can make a difference. COMMISSIONER AYERS: Yes. Well, a couple of things that we have done and that we're in the process of 23 3/28/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114, ETC. doing is educating the public on CPR just for heart attacks. Twenty percent of our volume is Advanced Life Support. The other 80 percent, 80 percent of our volume, is for Basic Life Support. That means it's a regular transport, no 8 lights, no sirens, just care, and people are taken to an emergency room. And that 20 percent where we absolutely need Advanced Life Support, those are the folks that we really want to get to. And in our system when we have times where units are all out -- sometimes we get to zero medic unit availability -- we run our system of first responders -- excuse me; our first responders system with the engines and the ladders, and what you wind up with is, they'll get there, they'll stabilize the patient, and when a carry unit, which we call a carry unit, comes, we will take that patient. But sometimes we do get delays in responses. I was just being reminded that that million dollars, we did put up four 24 3/28/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114, ETC. additional units with what you gave us.

So has that million dollars been spent? COMMISSIONER AYERS: It's being spent currently on an ongoing basis.

You indicated that you would forward to us the ALS units locations. Would you also forward to us a list of where the Basic Life Support units are located? COMMISSIONER AYERS: Yes, ma'am.

You mention that some of the EMS coverage is at peak demand periods versus full time. What are the peak demand periods? COMMISSIONER AYERS: We have many peak demand periods. Most of the time they're early morning from 7:00 a.m. running up into 5 o'clock, 6 o'clock, sometimes into the evening hours. And we have units that are deployed during those periods of time. And also weekends, we have deployed some of these units on 25 3/28/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114, ETC. weekends and the evenings where we have a lot of demand. I can bring you a system status that would show you exactly the times that they deploy and everything else and I will include that in the list.

All right. On of your testimony, you state that you are reducing your number of dispatchers in your 9-1-1 call center from 54 to 52. What's the justification of this reduction if you say that you're getting increased calls? What would the justification be in reducing the employees in the 9-1-1 call center? COMMISSIONER AYERS: There was a 2.5 percent reduction across the board citywide for civilian positions.

With what, sir? COMMISSIONER AYERS: Civilian positions in the budget, and that is where we had to cut two dispatchers and one clerk. 3/28/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114, ETC.

And what were the savings for the two employees? COMMISSIONER AYERS: Total savings was $138,985.

I'm sorry. Would you repeat, please? COMMISSIONER AYERS: $138,985.

What impact does that have on the call center? COMMISSIONER AYERS: I'm sorry?

What impact does that have on the call center? COMMISSIONER AYERS: Well, the impact on the call center will be basically we will have to have those positions staffed. We'll have to use overtime if we have problems. If a person is out sick, we'll have to hire someone to fill the position.

Well, then there really are no savings, are there? COMMISSIONER AYERS: It 27 3/28/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114, ETC. depends. We could have an incident and we'll call in extra people at any time.

I'm sure if you have 54 employees, at any given day you probably have one or two who are out sick. COMMISSIONER AYERS: Yes.

Maybe one has an emergency at home, maybe one has a death in their family and has to take off three days. I don't know that a $138,000 saving is worth our jeopardizing public safety. COMMISSIONER AYERS: Well, we won't have a position that's unfilled at the call center. We have a --

But how are you going to fill them if you don't have the money? COMMISSIONER AYERS: We'll have to fill it on overtime. We can't leave the -- we have a national standard that we have to keep as far as dispatch.

What 28 3/28/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114, ETC. will the overtime cost? I think you would have to just guess on that, but what would the overtime possibly be able to come to? COMMISSIONER AYERS: President Verna, I will figure that cost and get that back to you as well.

Ms. Reed, do you mind coming up to the witness table, please, and maybe you could respond. I certainly don't know what the rationale would be to cut 9-1-1 call centers, two employees from there at the tune of $138,000 when we'd probably be spending more in overtime and the Commissioner said he would replace them. How would he replace them if he doesn't have the money?

Dianne Reed, Budget Director. We had to hit a $10 million reduction number to make the budget.

I'm sorry? 29 3/28/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114, ETC.

We had to hit a $10 million two and a half percent budget number in order to balance the Five-Year Plan, and we gave departments a number. They chose which positions to decrease. We do not tell departments what positions to decrease.

I'm sure the Commissioner didn't want to fire firefighters. And if somebody in Southwest is calling for an emergency and they have to have them come from 12th and Shunk, where is the savings supposed to be?

We held harmless uniform positions in Police and Fire, FJD, City Council and Prisons. Everyone else got a cut. It's a zero sum situation.

So are you suggesting that the Fire Commissioner voluntarily came to you and said, Listen, we could cut two people from the 9-1-1 call center? 30 3/28/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114, ETC.

It's the Department's choice.

Commissioner, was that your choice? Come on. Let him answer. COMMISSIONER AYERS: We cut the positions, the positions -- if we have a console -- we won't have a console that's normally filled unfilled. We have a standard that we keep. We make sure that we have a one-minute response to calls. We will keep that standard. We will keep that standard. We will fill those positions.

And how much, Ms. Reed, did you think that the firefighters could save?

$138,000, as he testified.

Is that the figure you gave them or did they give it to you?

No. We gave them the dollar number and they responded with 31 3/28/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114, ETC. the position complement that would --

And supposing they said to you, I'm sorry, because of the public safety issue, in good conscience we cannot cut two people.

Well, they could have -- I'm sorry, ma'am.

What would you have done?

We would have said, We'll find some alternative. I would say that City departments are rather heavy with clerical kinds of positions that we really should seek to eliminate or upgrade other kinds of positions and duties with a streamlining kind of strategy.

I don't know how you come to that conclusion. I don't know how you come to that conclusion.

Not fun.

Well, 32 3/28/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114, ETC. it's very depressing being on this side, too, and I just think it's absolutely absurd for us to be cutting $138,000 from the Fire Department when we're talking about public safety, and I don't know how you came up with the figure of $138,985. There's no logic here.

There is some logic. It's just not a pleasant logic.

Tell me how logical it is. If you think it's logical, tell me how logical it is.

The logic is that someone else's budget would have been cut by the $138,000. So the degree to which the Fire Department's budget was held harmless and has been replenished while all other departments took cuts over the last couple of years --

Can I stop you there.

-- it seemed appropriate --

Can I 33 3/28/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114, ETC. just stop you there, please. Do we have any indication as to how much overtime it's going to cost?

No. In fact, the Department has projected an overtime decrease because of the fact that they are staffing up generally. They were budgeted million in overtime. 10

But 11 if the call can't go through the 9-1-1 12 call center, how can they -- you're 13 saying how they have beefed up. How 14 could they beef up on the calls if you 15 don't have the appropriate people 16 answering calls? 17

I think that the 18 Commissioner was saying that they would 19 man the stations. 20

They 21 would man them with overtime. I think I 22 also heard the Commissioner say he would 23 have to hire two people. 24 Is that what I understood you 25 to say, Commissioner? 34 3/28/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114, ETC. Please. COMMISSIONER AYERS: What we will do is, we will make sure that we have the consoles staffed properly at all times. That's what we do.

And that would require overtime in many instances. COMMISSIONER AYERS: Sometimes it will require overtime; other times it may not. It depends on -- as you said, there's a replacement factor --

Do we have uniform firefighters manning the call centers? COMMISSIONER AYERS: Only as back-ups. In an emergency, I can have -- the answer is no. We have civilian staff, but for emergencies, if I needed to, for whatever the reason, extend our call center or have our call center staffed by other than civilian, we have trained back-ups that are uniform that can come in and staff that. 35 3/28/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114, ETC.

So now we're going to have firefighters answering the 9-1-1 calls if you do not have -- COMMISSIONER AYERS: Only in an emergency. An emergency meaning it would be something where we could not get our civilian force to the call centers. We have back-ups. We would bring in engines, drop off folks, and they would staff the call centers. We train back-ups. And I'm thinking of a major emergency. This is not like someone called in sick or someone is not available to take the overtime. I'm saying an extreme emergency we have a back-up system set for the City of Philadelphia to take care of that.

So, Commissioner, I'm tired of fighting for people who won't fight for themselves. Are you saying that you could live with this budget? COMMISSIONER AYERS: I'm saying 36 3/28/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114, ETC. that I will always staff each and every position in the call center because of the safety of the people in Philadelphia.

Okay. So you can live with the budget that you presently have before you? COMMISSIONER AYERS: I will manage the budget that is in front of me.

That's fine. I have no further questions. Councilman Rizzo.

And we will remember that, that you can deal with the funds that you have, and I hope that you can manage that effectively. Commissioner, I just want to go back momentarily. I have some observations and I have a couple questions, but I want to go back to the staffing issue. You recollect that I was the Councilmember that asked you the question -- COMMISSIONER AYERS: Could you 37 3/28/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114, ETC. speak up.

I was the Councilmember that asked you the questions about your staffing and the hiring practices, and I heard President Verna ask you about going outside the City, and I remember when the Personnel Director called me to tell me that she was prepared at the time to give you, through the Civil Service Commission, the authority, the waiver, to be able to hire people from outside, but she says she had never heard from you. If you have an issue of employment, why haven't you not implemented the waiver that was apparently available to you if you asked? COMMISSIONER AYERS: For one, it's a City management decision from the Mayor's Office to hire outside. That's for one. And the second thing is that we have handled and we have matched the alignment that we have in the emergency medical services to, one, meet the demand 38 3/28/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114, ETC. of our citizens here in Philadelphia, measured demand of what the citizens require here, and the requirement is that 80 percent of our call volume in emergency medical services, including the increases from year to year, is for Basic Life Support, where people come and basically they are using all of the emergency centers, emergency rooms around the City of Philadelphia as their primary care. And that is what's happening. And it's increasing more and more. Now, the fact that we have correctly distributed our emergency medical services, emergency medical technicians, our paramedics, in a way to service the citizens, I think that that's the right thing to do. At this point, we're looking to hire an additional 30 paramedics to bring it up to what this configuration is. When I reach that point, we will continue to hire available paramedics and then re-staff all of those units that we took 39 3/28/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114, ETC. down to Basic. That is in the plan that we have currently.

If you could as the Commissioner, without the Mayor's Office making the decision for you, if you could make the decision to get that waiver and get these posts filled, would you do that? COMMISSIONER AYERS: That's the Mayor's policy. It's the City --

I didn't ask you that. If the Commissioner had the authority to get the waiver through the employment department and also through the Commission, would you ask for that waiver? You've got 30 positions you can't fill, correct? COMMISSIONER AYERS: No, that's not correct.

How many can you not fill? COMMISSIONER AYERS: Well, we'll probably be filling -- in the next class, that 30 is going to be reduced to, 40 3/28/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114, ETC. after a hiring process and everything, it's going to be reduced to or 18, and 4 then soon after that, we're going to have 5 other students coming out of these 6 universities and out of these hospitals 7 and it will continue to come down, that 8 30. So I cannot fill the 30 right now 9 only because we haven't trained them and 10 they are not out of school. 11

Would you 12 ask for the waiver? 13 COMMISSIONER AYERS: Currently 14 I don't need a waiver. 15

You have 16 positions open. You tell me it's a 17 capacity, training capacity, issue. You don't have the capacity to train additional paramedics? COMMISSIONER AYERS: I'm saying that the way our unit, this Philadelphia Fire Department emergency service delivery system, is configured right now, that we are serving the citizens and that we are going to continue to serve the 41 3/28/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114, ETC. citizens.

I hear that, but you have no issue at all of employment within the emergency services part of the Fire Department? In other words, you're satisfied that your staffing is appropriate and the timetable that you just described is adequate to staff that operation? COMMISSIONER AYERS: That's right. And the people that we are hiring are citizens of the City of Philadelphia getting jobs and working, and I think we're moving forward with a good progress.

That's important, because I can accept that, but if you have a crisis where you can't get people, then you really need to do something to address that. But I believe you because of my relationship with you that you are okay with the level that you have even though it's not as speedy as you'd like it to be. 42 3/28/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114, ETC. COMMISSIONER AYERS: Thank you, sir.

Now, my next is an observation and I have a question. The last time we had an incident here at City Hall I saw a response that was just excellent. It was impressive, even though it turned out to be a very minor, thank goodness, situation. But what I observed is some very old equipment, and I believe that what I heard today, your work with Fleet Management, that you're going to introduce a significant amount of new equipment into the Fire Department. The numbers that I have is that you have six ladders, five pumpers and possibly if the money is available in '08, you're going to have ten new pumpers. COMMISSIONER AYERS: Yes, sir.

So the aged equipment is something that you are absolutely addressing. Because, again, I saw some equipment -- fortunately I 43 3/28/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114, ETC. understand the City ID process. We have equipment that's -- let me see here. Four engines and three ladders, that only one was less than eight years of age, and from what I understand checking with Fleet Management, that the dollars to keep that equipment on the road is very, very expensive. So this is a reaction in your report today to deal with this equipment, this aging equipment? COMMISSIONER AYERS: Yeah. This is a continued process that we are utilizing. Right now I have a team in Washington now at the Congressional Fire Service Institute. I'll be going to Washington tomorrow. And that is one of the things that we are doing, to lobby Congress, the Senate to increase the funding to major cities so that we can -- to help us to actually purchase apparatus. It's a big-ticket item for every fire service, every city, and we're hoping that they will increase the funding so that we can get more 44 3/28/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114, ETC. apparatus.

One of the areas, Commissioner, in fire service -- I read an article -- is the fact that many fire companies spend a lot of money, and I think ours included, because we design a vehicle that is so custom that it requires hundreds of hours and thousands of dollars in extras to make it. A bin that's 10 by 10, the standard bin might be 11 by 11, but we want it 10 by 10. The industry, the utility industry, the bucket trucks, the line trucks. There's a package that you can buy from a manufacturer. I understand that we're not there yet and you need to buy in to being able to save thousands of dollars on an apparatus, a ladder or most likely an engine that comes from the manufacturer that suits almost every fire company in the United States, unless it's some very specific need. Are you looking at and allowing Fleet Management to purchase some 45 3/28/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114, ETC. equipment that Chicago buys out of the box, that New York buys out of the box, that some Northern New Jersey town buys and finds very acceptable? Can we get there where we can save some money on buying some equipment that the manufacturer says that, We've done thousands of hours of research and we are ready, this equipment works well? COMMISSIONER AYERS: Actually, there is a pilot that we have currently. I started a cross-functional team with Fleet, Fire Department, Risk Management to do the assessments on actually having this type of a vehicle or purchasing this type of a custom vehicle to reduce those costs, and that pilot program, hopefully we'll get a report back and we'll be able to implement something that satisfies the City where we can actually have a vehicle that can stand up to the runs that we experience here in the City of Philadelphia. So that is a current pilot that's going on. 46 3/28/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114, ETC.

I'm glad to hear that, because I talked to one particular utility company that saved millions of dollars buying a truck that basically here's the truck, make it work, and it worked. COMMISSIONER AYERS: Well, the key is that we won't sacrifice the safety of the firefighters.

Wouldn't want that for a minute. My final is now my question. There is a program that I have a lot of interest in because it makes sense, it's common sense. Could you explain why you have not moved to the ALS engine pilot program that has a paramedic? It seems as though if you have a paramedic that now is a firefighter and they're on an engine and they are at the scene but cannot participate in a paramedic function, it seems as though they could be helpful to the firefighter. They could be helpful to the entire process. 47 3/28/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114, ETC. Why are we not where we need to be with the ALS engine pilot program? And for my colleagues that might not be familiar with what I'm talking about, could you explain the program and explain how you're adopting or going to adopt that program? COMMISSIONER AYERS: The Advanced Life Support engine is a concept that is used in many areas of the country, mostly in areas that are really laid out where you don't have a large amount of hospitals and that where you have to have remote runs, where you would need a paramedic in the vicinity at all times, and one of the ways that they have dealt with that, those departments, is to create paramedic engines. The pilot that is proposed in the contract by Local 22, as you know, that has not been settled yet. We're still -- that has not been signed, that whole contract. But I will tell you that our Fire Department management, we're 48 3/28/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114, ETC. looking at that to find out how to implement that. And one of the things that would happen is, you would have a paramedic on every engine, on every platoon. So you have to -- if you wanted to implement a system like that, you would have to have 60 engines, or if you include the ladders, now we go up to like 90 vehicles times four, and you want to put a paramedic on each one, you start looking at like numbers that are through the roof to actually have a full-blown system like that. But what we're talking about is the proposal by the union and the fact that we need to look at that proposal by the union. But right now nothing is being implemented.

Well, Commissioner, you heard President Verna talking about and I have seen many times when the engine company is the first responder because there's no unit available or they're en route from one 49 3/28/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114, ETC. part of the City. I mean, that boggles my mind that we're dispatching rescue units from South Philadelphia to Roxborough, not all the time but on occasion. Where you have an engine company show up at the scene and have a person that is a paramedic on that engine that became a firefighter and not take advantage of that opportunity to save a life or communicate with that rescue unit responding across the City to me is common sense to have that ability. So, Commissioner, if you're going to continue to have engine companies and I assume ladder trucks respond as first responders, if there's a paramedic on there, Commissioner, forget the 60 for a moment, forget the 90, but where that is in fact the case, why not take advantage of having a trained Advanced Life Support paramedic able to help a firefighter that's down? I'm sure they do it anyway without the 50 3/28/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114, ETC. authorization. But to have a paramedic on that ladder or engine and not utilize their services to me doesn't make any sense.

Councilman, if I could interject. The Commissioner and I have been talking about other alternatives that are used in other locations in which you do not send a ladder or an engine as a first responder but rather some other kind of vehicle that is not as expensive to use in that way, and so we're exploring a variety of solutions. It doesn't seem -- I mean, if you've ever been at a location where a ladder has shown up as a first responder, it's pretty bizarre and then two minutes later or maybe 30 seconds in the case where I was where that happened, the EMS unit shows up. It doesn't seem like the best use of resources.

What kind of vehicle would you suggest would show up 51 3/28/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114, ETC. in lieu of an engine or ladder?

The Commissioner is looking into some of those alternatives. I have been reading about other kinds of small vehicles that could be mobile and so forth. I don't know if he'd choose to comment on that. COMMISSIONER AYERS: They're called chase units. Some cities use small vehicles similar to police cars; some cities use vans; some cities use Suburban type vehicles. And what they do is, they have roving units. They have paramedics on the --

You talked about a huge amount of money. What you just described is a huge amount of money, vehicles, personnel. COMMISSIONER AYERS: No. It's less money.

Could you provide to the Chair right today how many Advanced Life Support personnel, how many paramedics, are firefighters that are 52 3/28/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114, ETC. right now responding as a first responder to a run that they cannot because of their lack of qualification respond as a paramedic versus a firefighter? COMMISSIONER AYERS: We could do that.

Do you think you have a few out there? COMMISSIONER AYERS: Do we have paramedics that are -- absolutely. They've crossed over from firefighter to paramedic.

But am I correct to say that they are no longer certified to perform the job of a paramedic when they are now a firefighter? COMMISSIONER AYERS: They don't perform as paramedics. They changed -- they actually left the paramedic service, went to the fire side and they are classified differently.

But you could create an environment where a 53 3/28/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114, ETC. crossover, a paramedic becomes a firefighter, could still retain his certification to provide paramedic service? COMMISSIONER AYERS: Again, as far as my previous comments about the fact that we are at management looking at that based on the fact that it's part of a negotiation right now, that negotiation hasn't -- the contract hasn't taken place. And at some point, we will -- we'll entertain all of those things. All of those things that you just stated are on the table.

Commissioner, just for the record -- and that's why we're here today, because the record is what we work with here -- COMMISSIONER AYERS: Sure.

-- you could create in the Fire Department an environment where a paramedic becomes a firefighter, could be cross-trained that when they're the first responder, that 54 3/28/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114, ETC. they could provide the services of a paramedic? You could create that environment within the Fire Department if you'd like? Since when is the Budget Director involved in the operations of the Fire Department? This is unusual. COMMISSIONER AYERS: Well, it's under contract right now and it's still being negotiated.

Could you create that environment? COMMISSIONER AYERS: Could I? It's a contract issue right now, and it's a situation that I can't say that I could. I'm telling you that we do have crossover paramedics on engines and I'm saying that --

So why can't you answer that question? I thought the contract, I thought that was already an issue that was pretty much resolved. COMMISSIONER AYERS: No, it is not. 55 3/28/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114, ETC.

So you're not answering the question because this is a contractual issue that is not resolved? COMMISSIONER AYERS: Well, if I could do it right now, then it would mean that the contract was done and resolved. And I'm telling you that even without a resolved contract, that management are looking at all of those things. We're looking at all of those things.

I didn't ask you would you make the decision to adopt that. What I'm asking you, as the Commissioner, could you create -- forget the contract for a moment. Let's start all over again. We have paramedics that are becoming firefighters. If you could create a new classification of personnel, could you create as the Commissioner, going through the process, whatever it would be, through the Administration, could you create a class of employee that 56 3/28/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114, ETC. could become a firefighter, take his paramedic training with him and utilize it as a firefighter as every other paramedic that would respond in a conventional unit? COMMISSIONER AYERS: Well, I would have to discover what all the things that would have to happen, personnel, et cetera, and all of those processes. That's what would have to happen.

Councilman Rizzo?

Yes, ma'am.

Would you finish your line of questioning, because the board is full. Every Councilmember would like to --

I'll come back around.

So we will do a second go-around.

I just want the answer to the question, is the 57 3/28/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114, ETC. Commissioner --

That's fine.

-- empowered to create that class of service. We'll be back at you. Thank you, Madam President.

Thank you. The Chair recognizes Councilman Kenney.

Thank you, Madam President. Relative to recruiting, I've been banging my head against the wall too long. I'm not going to bang it anymore, but I just want to make a comment. The New York City Police Department held its entrance examination at Temple University last week and will have, during the course of the spring and summer, a recruiting van parked outside Citizens Bank Park for recruiting purposes. Now, maybe we're smarter than 58 3/28/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114, ETC. the people in New York, but we have 30 positions we can't fill and they're down here recruiting our people. We've had this discussion. We've had legislation. It's been vetoed. We've gone back and forth. I just think it's insane to limit the City's ability to recruit good, competent people, people who live here for a year or more only. That being said, Commissioner, relative to firehouses and their closings, we've been through here before with lots of dire doomsday conversation and a lot of emotional situations relative to the firehouse closing. I don't hear anything about that, and I assume that there's no planned closings for FY08? COMMISSIONER AYERS: No, there are not. We are funded and I am happy.

Great. Thank you very much, because we went through a lot of fun during that period of time. So we don't have to do that 59 3/28/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114, ETC. again. Firehouses, relative to diesel emissions -- emissions, I'm sorry, what are we planning on trying to do to kind of keep our people out of having to breathe in those fumes inside the house? Because we know there's things that need to be done with the engine and ladders while they're inside servicing them and otherwise and the engine needs to be running. How are we going to get some of that bad air out of the room? COMMISSIONER AYERS: We have funds available. We have been talking with Risk Management, who have ran all the tests that they needed to in all of the firehouses. There is a project plan that has been set up and ongoing installment of those systems.

Also, the Mayor has been kind enough to agree to do a little bit of a tour upcoming with some of the houses that really need some repair. I mean, it is a firehouse and 60 3/28/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114, ETC. people do, as you know, live in it, and the capital conditions of some of those houses are really deplorable. And I know it's not something that you sit kindly with, but it's a matter of the government moving to improve the conditions of our firefighters when they have to live, their kitchen set-ups, their bedroom areas and those kind of things. COMMISSIONER AYERS: Yes.

So hopefully we can start moving in a direction that improves the conditions of our employees when they're on the job and living in the house. So that's, I think, a good thing. The 39 fire deaths this year, do you know how many of them are related to any kind of arson? Do you have those numbers? COMMISSIONER AYERS: Yes. On the fiscal year I'd have to break that number out. On the calendar year, last year 11 were arson. 61 3/28/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114, ETC.

Eleven out of how many? COMMISSIONER AYERS: Eleven out of 46.

Any fire death or any other death is tragic. I just want to make sure it's clear that sometimes it's not an issue of just bad wiring or smoke detectors; it's an issue of people trying to kill somebody. COMMISSIONER AYERS: Last year was the highest single cause, was arson. And this year currently we have zero arsons, but the shame of it is that each and every fire death, all that we have 17 currently, was in a house that did not 18 have smoke alarms, had missing batteries 19 or dead batteries. 20

I know you 21 recently with, I think, Councilwoman 22 Blackwell, have conducted a program in 23 West Philadelphia, I believe, with your fire recruits who were helping her hand out smoke detectors and the like. So 62 3/28/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114, ETC. hopefully that will go a long way in getting people safer. COMMISSIONER AYERS: Yes, absolutely. And with that reduction in fires, you reduce -- as a system, when you stop and you look at what we have, when you reduce the fire deaths, you reduce the runs, you reduce injuries and those types of things. You start to get our citizenry more in tune with fire prevention, and that brings down everything, firefighter injuries, possibility of firefighter deaths, runs that you don't have to make. It brings down fuel costs. It's just doing that basic thing, which is our mission, fire prevention. When you do that, you get that done, you start to find the funds to do other things. You start to bring down the wear and tear on the apparatus. It's all relevant.

It's all related. An issue relating to the Fire 63 3/28/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114, ETC. Department but also to the Police Department is radio communication, cell phone communication in the subway. It is really a difficult problem, especially when you look at urban terrorism. A lot of it centers on mass transit, and the subway is a prime target. Are there any plans or study in the works to try to get the subway system accessible to both radio communication and cell phone communication? COMMISSIONER AYERS: For radio communication there is a plan in place to actually bring the underground communication into line with the regular 800 megahertz communication. Right now what we did in the meantime between the time we get that system in and what we're doing now, we have cooperation with SEPTA. They have given radios to Fire and Police so that when we respond, we can communicate underground.

So you have the capability of communicating 64 3/28/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114, ETC. underground now? COMMISSIONER AYERS: Yes, we do, through SEPTA radios and a system which is called a Rio System whereby we have our 800 radio that is put into a special mechanism, an apparatus, electronic equipment, and it allows Police, Fire, City services, Public Property to communicate.

So when you respond to a subway incident, whether it's a medical emergency or a fire of some kind, you take a different radio downstairs with you? COMMISSIONER AYERS: We have a radio -- well, the Chief already has a radio.

All right. That's it. Thank you.

Thank you very much, Councilman. Let me say that I've heard the President talk about that incident she mentioned many times. I don't even think 65 3/28/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114, ETC. you were Commissioner then, so that's probably why you don't recall it. But she's upset. She mentions that story every year because she's upset about that issue. But what I wanted to say was that thank you for Saturday. We gave out information. They put in detectors. And I had two Lieutenant Gilliams. In fact, when we met our block captains and Town Watch leaders there, I had just left one Lieutenant Gilliam, the one I grew up with, and my people were saying, We're with Lieutenant Gilliam. I said, No, you're not. So we were arguing over Lieutenant Gilliam. But certainly it was absolutely wonderful. The cadets were great. Everybody was motivated. My committeemen, Town Watch and block captains were very grateful, as am I, for that service, and certainly we applaud you, think you and your department are doing a great job, and thank you. 66 3/28/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114, ETC. COMMISSIONER AYERS: Thank you.

Councilman Greenlee.

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Sure.

Good morning, Commissioner. And first I just want to go on record recognizing the real proactive efforts you're putting out there in fire safety and fire prevention. Your department is doing a great job in working with the community. COMMISSIONER AYERS: Thank you, sir.

I just have a question on a different subject. On the bills that are sent out to people after they receive emergency services, is that all done privately or is that also related to the Fire Department? Does that come from the Fire Department? COMMISSIONER AYERS: It is 67 3/28/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114, ETC. related to the fire service that's delivered. It is emergency medical service that's delivered. It is a private organization, a private company, that does the collections for the Department. They collect from Medicare, Medicaid, Blue Cross and other insurance entities to bring back the funds for the services delivered into the General Fund.

I certainly understand people's insurance being billed. I occasionally hear concern, though, from people that have given out their insurance information. The insurance company has paid what percentage they'll pay, and they still keep getting billed. And they're obviously very concerned because they just plain don't have the money to pay it. And I guess even the bigger concern is that some of them will say, Well, geez, I'm going to be hesitant next time in calling because I'm not sure -- I 68 3/28/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114, ETC. don't want to get billed, and maybe I start having some pain, but I'm hoping it's indigestion instead of a heart attack or something. Is there any program or does there come a time where you just say, Okay, these people, they just don't have the ability to pay? COMMISSIONER AYERS: Well, I think one of the things that we have that I am sure that we have not advertised or educated the public enough to is that we do have a system. Within the company, there is a system to actually have that bill rendered null and void where they don't have to pay it. One of the things I believe that we have to do is to enhance the education, let folks know if you cannot afford to pay that bill, you won't have to pay that bill.

What is that program? COMMISSIONER AYERS: It's a 69 3/28/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114, ETC. process. It's through the -- it's still through the system. They have to just contact the company, which they get in the letter. It's in the letter that they get. If they contact the company, they have a process. They have to fill out some forms and another little process, and then they can get out of it if they ask.

Because some of the people, I guess, didn't see that. I've seen those letters. I didn't notice that. Because I know there's some people, they keep getting almost dunned on those bills. Just one last question on that, if I could, coming at it from the other direction. Have you seen -- and I know you haven't been the Commissioner the whole time. Since that process has been put in where people have to pay, have the -- maybe "frivolous" is the wrong word, but the less serious calls, have they lessened because people have to pay 70 3/28/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114, ETC. for that service, people that maybe didn't necessarily have to call for emergency service? COMMISSIONER AYERS: Unfortunately, no, because most of the people that really cannot afford to pay are the people that's using the service. People who really can't afford to pay, they're going -- they don't have HMOs, they don't have insurance, things like that that they could utilize to go to a regular doctor. They use the emergency rooms. The stories are out there. The doctors know the people who are there frequently, and I don't think that we'll get away from that. I think that is something that's outside of the fire service. We have tried to help folks out with that. We have a program currently where we ask people to learn how to use the 9-1-1 system. We have the brochures on our medic units. We have brochures in 71 3/28/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114, ETC. all of the hospitals' waiting room areas. We have brochures in the community centers, talking to people about not sitting at home and saying, Oh, I have heartburn or what is this. We want people to go and call 9-1-1 if that's the case, but we also want them to utilize some other system if they can. We're trying to partner with the Health Department and with other agencies to help educate our citizens on other available sources that will help pay for medical coverage or at least being seen by a doctor. We currently partner with Local 22. We have a Choices program where we actually have doctors come in and do a basic survey of all the citizens that want to come to the firehouse in the area, and the Local 21 actually allows the firefighters to be 22 screened as well. So with programs like this, we believe that we can educate people, tell people, Hey, look, you have high blood 72 3/28/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114, ETC. pressure, you need to see a doctor, these are available sources if you don't have money. These are the things that Choices are telling people right now, and it's just something to try to curb the demand on 9-1-1.

That certainly makes sense. I guess it takes a while sometimes to get that communicated. COMMISSIONER AYERS: It's going to take a while.

Thank you, Commissioner. Thank you, Madam President.

You're welcome. The Chair recognizes Councilman Clarke.

Thank you, Madam President. Good morning. COMMISSIONER AYERS: Good morning, sir. 73 3/28/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114, ETC.

Real quick question. With respect to the -- well, let me ask you a couple of questions. Do you know the regs associated with rental properties and the requirements for smoke detectors? COMMISSIONER AYERS: Yes. They must have working smoke alarms in their rental properties. They have to be one on each level. And it is the law. They have to do that. They cannot get a Certificate of Occupancy without that requirement being fulfilled.

Should it be hard-wired or batteries? COMMISSIONER AYERS: Some of the new construction is hard-wired, but it's only required that they have a working smoke alarm.

Because part of the problem is, as you know -- I don't have to tell you -- is a lot of people have smoke detectors but the batteries are dead. Is there an ongoing 74 3/28/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114, ETC. requirement for property owners to check on a monthly basis? I mean, what are the regs associated with that? COMMISSIONER AYERS: The requirement is that that property should be -- those smoke alarms should be working at all times.

Period. COMMISSIONER AYERS: Period. The programs that the Fire Department put out with a one-year battery, we expect people to check them twice a year. With a ten-year battery, we expect them to check them once a month. Now, the Fire Department has taken on a policy that we will only purchase with donated funds, we will only purchase and install ten-year lithium-powered batteries from now on. That's one of the things that we've taken on. We try to encourage -- when we knock on doors, we run into folks that have rental properties, we talk to them 75 3/28/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114, ETC. about it. We talk to them about the way everything is capped and try to encourage them to do a home escape plan. But when we check the batteries, if we find a batty that's missing, because it's a rental property, we don't say we're not going to put the battery in. We do it. But one of the things that we encourage that renter to do is to make sure that they check them themselves and talk to the landlord that they should be replacing the batteries. Sometimes they don't have that kind of cooperation with the landlords. Sometimes it is that kind of cooperation. We run into rental properties that's immaculate and we run into rental properties that's like, What are they doing here?

What's the penalty associated with a landlord not having an operable smoke detector? COMMISSIONER AYERS: Well, the only thing we can do is write them up, and it depends on how many properties. 76 3/28/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114, ETC. If it's a three -- if it's apartments with three people in an apartment, then we can write them up. We'll red tag them and everything else. If it's just, say, a single-family home, usually it's just easier for us to take care of it and we'll talk to L&I sometimes, but it's not really an ongoing program to identify every rental property in Philadelphia and make sure that we bang the homeowner. It's not a lot of teeth in the law.

Okay. Do you think that it would be unreasonable -- and I know it's a relatively sensitive issue -- to have to some degree, maybe a lesser degree, for an owner-occupied property to first have a requirement to have an operable smoke detector and have a penalty attached if they don't? COMMISSIONER AYERS: I think it's reasonable. It's reasonable. If you have a property that you value, that you get some fiduciary enhancement from, 77 3/28/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114, ETC. if you have that, you should make sure -- and it's the law -- you should make sure that that property is certified for occupancy, and if it's not, we believe in the Fire Department that people should pay a penalty. People should pay a penalty for that.

As the owner occupant? COMMISSIONER AYERS: As the owner occupant?

I'm asking you the owner occupant. I'm in a house. I bought a house. I own the house. I live there. Do you think it's reasonable for us to impose a penalty on that person if they do not have a working smoke detector? I understand your hesitancy, because you can imagine how -- COMMISSIONER AYERS: First of all, it would be very hard to enforce, because everybody don't let us in their house. If you have an apartment, I'm 78 3/28/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114, ETC. coming in your house. You know, like apartments, three apartments, and you have other occupants, I'm coming in. I have the authority to come in. But if it's a twin or if it's just two apartments, I don't have the authority to come in. I can't just say, I want to come in and check all the smoke alarms. If it's a single family, like it's your home, I knock on the door, you don't have to let me in. The Fire Department is let in because they know we're coming to help.

Because it's a commercial property. Is that the law, if it's a commercial property, you have the authority to have access, but if it's a strict residential unit, single-family home -- is that written in the law or is that just a policy? COMMISSIONER AYERS: Okay. Let me understand you. When you say "commercial," you mean it's a rental property? 79 3/28/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114, ETC.

Correct. COMMISSIONER AYERS: If it's a rental property and it's three units, we have to go in.

So it's three and above? COMMISSIONER AYERS: Three and above, we go in. Or rooming units that's five rooming units, four rooming units, we go in. If it's a property and it's just someone you rented to, we don't have to go in.

I'm asking from a legal perspective. COMMISSIONER AYERS: No. We legally --

You cannot go in a single-family home that's a rental property? COMMISSIONER AYERS: No. We legally can't go in there. If we go in there and we see that it's not properly certed, like we see smoke alarms that's not properly certed, then I can call L&I 80 3/28/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114, ETC. and say, They have smoke alarms in there that's not working or that's missing, and L&I could take an action.

Let me understand this. I understand you don't have the authority to go in anything below the threshold of three units per property. Is there a requirement to have a smoke detector, an operable smoke detector, in anything below the three-unit threshold? COMMISSIONER AYERS: There's a requirement to have a smoke alarm in every residential unit in Philadelphia, whether it's rented or you own it or whatever.

But you don't have the authority to go in the house unless it's three and above? COMMISSIONER AYERS: To go in a private house and look and see if they have it.

I thought -- okay. So you're saying there 81 3/28/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114, ETC. is -- either I'm mixing you up or you're mixing me up. You're saying that there is a requirement in a single-family home to have an operable smoke detector? COMMISSIONER AYERS: There's a requirement because they get the occupancy certification. You have to have it. That's given by L&I.

At the time of -- COMMISSIONER AYERS: At the time of purchase.

At the time the Certificate of Occupancy is given? COMMISSIONER AYERS: Exactly. Whatever the business exchange is, whether you just purchased a house where you have an inspector go through and look at it or just sold the house and before the sale can be complete, that cert has to hit the table at the closing. All of those things have to be in place. Now, after it's done, it don't 82 3/28/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114, ETC. mean that I have the authority to come in your house and, I want to see your smoke alarms. What we do is, we say it is the law, you have to have smoke alarms, working smoke alarms.

At the time of the sale or the issuance of a Certificate of Occupancy? COMMISSIONER AYERS: At the transaction.

But subsequent to that, there's really no law or there's really no enforcement capability? COMMISSIONER AYERS: The exception with two units is if one of the units is a commercial unit like a store or restaurant and an apartment above. Then we have the authority to go in.

Okay. Thank you, Commissioner. COMMISSIONER AYERS: Okay.

One last question. I've been thinking about this 83 3/28/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114, ETC. for a while and actually a staff member suggested that I do a bill that requires everyone to have a smoke detector with a penalty attached to it, be it owner-occupied or a single-family dwelling, and before I embarked on such a mission, because I think it could possibly be a mission, I thought it was appropriate to have that conversation with you first. Okay. All right. That's sufficient. Thank you. COMMISSIONER AYERS: Hopefully the Fire Safety Representative program will help get smoke alarms in many, many more houses.

Thank you, Commissioner. The Chair recognizes Councilman Kelly.

Thank you, Madam President. Good morning, Commissioner. COMMISSIONER AYERS: Good morning. 84 3/28/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114, ETC.

You mention in your testimony that you have reached your authorized budget position level. What is that level? How many firefighters do you have? COMMISSIONER AYERS: Currently, we're budgeted for 2,503. That's total firefighters, civilian, everybody.

What's your attrition rate; in other words, people who are leaving the Department each year? COMMISSIONER AYERS: It's close to 80 a year.

Eighty a year? COMMISSIONER AYERS: Yes.

What is your class size? COMMISSIONER AYERS: Currently, we have two classes of 80 firefighters. We started out with a few more firefighters in the classes, like closer to 90, because we have --

A few of 85 3/28/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114, ETC. them drop out? COMMISSIONER AYERS: Well, we lose only a couple. We only lost a few firefighters in this class, and most of them say, This is not for me, and they leave. And sometimes people fail out that can't do the work, but for the most part, they'll go through. Currently, we'll graduate -- we have two classes of 80 in now. We're going to graduate on May 25th those candidates. They'll go out and they'll populate the vacancies.

So, in other words, you have two classes during the year? COMMISSIONER AYERS: Yes.

Of approximately about 80 to 85, so that even through attrition, it would be reduced by 80 so you would still be up -- COMMISSIONER AYERS: From the class end, yeah, but just to be clear, now we are -- we weren't allowed to hire 86 3/28/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114, ETC. for -- we're not allowed to hire -- we didn't hire because of the threat of the company closings. The threat is gone. The money has been replaced. So in order to populate those firehouses for safety reasons, not just on the backfill and the overtime but also for safety reasons, putting teams together, we put together two double classes. In the years moving forward, we will probably only be putting in one class, possibly two classes a year, but mostly just one class a year.

Okay. I want to get back to the paramedics. I just want to be clear about this. You have a class right now which probably has 15 paramedics in it? COMMISSIONER AYERS: Yes, sir.

Is that the limit that you can train paramedics? COMMISSIONER AYERS: No, sir.

You can have a class of 30, in other words? COMMISSIONER AYERS: Yeah. I 87 3/28/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114, ETC. think --

My question is, even with these paramedics, are 5 you still short? 6 COMMISSIONER AYERS: Yeah, we 7 will be short. 8

You'd be 9 short by 15? 10 COMMISSIONER AYERS: By 15, 11 unless paramedics go into a fire class or 12 unless they leave the system, which -- 13

So it's more 14 or less a recruitment problem then, 15 because you could hire 30 and have them go through a class and be at full strength? COMMISSIONER AYERS: Yeah. It's a possibility we could hire 30 paramedics. If we, say, like didn't have the restrictions or we had all of the --

Are you budgeted for that? COMMISSIONER AYERS: Oh, yes. We're budgeted for it. 88 3/28/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114, ETC.

So it's just that you're missing right now? 4 COMMISSIONER AYERS: Exactly. 5 And as soon as Personnel sets up this 6 next list, which the process usually 7 doesn't take more than 30 days or so, 8 once they set up this next list, we'll 9 immediately start another class and we'll 10 immediately -- we have this chain going, 11 so until we get to that 30. And then 12 after that 30, the next available class, 13 we'll hope to be repopulating some of the 14 Basic units we took down. We'll put them 15 in now, start bringing back up.

If you're at full strength with paramedics, what's your average response time? When someone calls for an emergency, what is the average response time before a paramedic arrives? COMMISSIONER AYERS: It was seven minutes and -- I believe it was 7:53. Let me double-check. 7:09 was actual for '06. It was 6 minutes and 53 89 3/28/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114, ETC. seconds in '05.

Council President Verna mentioned something about the response time in South Philadelphia which you found that the nearest paramedic responded was quite a distance away. And I can tell you, I was speaking to a civic association person up in Somerton. Her neighbor who had a heart attack called for an emergency for the response. Where the paramedics came from was Allegheny Avenue to go to Somerton. Now, I don't know how long that took, but I know it took over 6 minutes and 53 seconds. If you're at full strength, would that be reduced in any way, the response time? COMMISSIONER AYERS: No. That does not --

I don't know the reason for that. The reason for it, of course, is because the closest ones were already out on a call, so they had 90 3/28/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114, ETC. to come back and they finally found one at Allegheny Avenue to respond to it. COMMISSIONER AYERS: The response time is a fact of the volume and the number of calls. To put another paramedic on the unit or to -- you would have to put more units into service to affect the unit-per-hour usage. That's what you would have to do. So it's not whether it's a paramedic or emergency medical technician. They still may have to come a long way based on what the use of the system is currently.

Can I make a point of information, Councilman Kelly?

Sure.

On that point. Point of information, Madam President.

Yes.

The assumption, Commissioner, on the 91 3/28/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114, ETC. statement that you just made to Councilman Kelly -- and I don't like assumptions -- that they are out on another run, tell us the facts. A day like today or some day of the year, do you have units that aren't staffed that would normally respond that are parked in the garage in the firehouse that could have responded but weren't available to respond? Not because they're out busy; because you have staffing issues. COMMISSIONER AYERS: No. The system status squads, medic units, they run at a certain time. Now, it's based on peak demand. And if that unit is not on -- say if it's a 12-hour unit, it's not on -- then that would be correct, that it's not running, but it's running because there's no demand.

I'm not talking about that. I'm talking about let's say that you have this very complicated schedule, peak, off peak. On any given day, is there a unit that is 92 3/28/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114, ETC. scheduled that isn't available because of staffing issues? COMMISSIONER AYERS: No. 5

So, in other words, today whatever this complicated schedule is, that everything is in place even if people don't show up for work? COMMISSIONER AYERS: That is correct.

Thank you for that point of information, Councilman Kelly.

Thank you, Councilman. I just want to follow up on what Councilman Rizzo was just saying. If you had a paramedic on one of those engine companies or whatnot who might be a lot closer than, say, going quite a distance to reach a paramedic unit, that would probably help immensely, I think, if you send out an engine company or one of those special cars that you mentioned or special vehicles, which would save us, 93 3/28/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114, ETC. of course, a lot of money than sending out a ladder or an engine company. In your opinion, would that be correct? COMMISSIONER AYERS: Well, when we send a ladder or an engine or a medic unit, when that person comes on the scene, it depends on what's facing the paramedic or the emergency medical technician.

And that would only be a temporary situation anyway, wouldn't it, until a paramedic unit could arrive? COMMISSIONER AYERS: Exactly.

In other words, you would be just giving an emergency treatment. COMMISSIONER AYERS: That's for the intervention. The most important and critical thing for a patient, one of our citizens that's in trouble, is the intervention, the fact that they get someone on that person if they went down with a heart attack, that we have hands 94 3/28/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114, ETC. on that person's chest and doing cardiac compressions as soon as possible. And with our first responder system, we have the time down around four minutes and something. It's a lower time. They've actually carried a person away -- to actually get them packaged and to carry them away, that response is at 6 minutes and 53 average. But like the Council President said, there are times when you're going to have stretched times based on --

Peak times. COMMISSIONER AYERS: -- peak times.

I want to get back to what Councilman Rizzo alluded to a little while ago. What's the lifespan of one of our fire equipment? I noticed you're purchasing new equipment now, but what is the average lifespan of a fire apparatus? COMMISSIONER AYERS: Several years ago we were looking at trying to 95 3/28/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114, ETC. keep a pumper or an engine company for to 20 years, which now we know it is not -- in Philadelphia, it's not a good thing. We should be looking at getting the lifespan of our vehicles down around ten years, where we can actually sell them off and then --

That was my 10 next question of what we do with the old 11 equipment. 12 COMMISSIONER AYERS: Fleet 13 handles it. They actually process the 14 equipment through sales and other ways. 15

But we don't have a process right now where saying that after ten years, a certain equipment could be just eliminated or actually replaced? COMMISSIONER AYERS: That is what we're trying to implement now, where we can have apparatus that are no more than ten years old. With the plans that we put forward, with the processes that we're trying to do with the federal 96 3/28/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114, ETC. government, that's what we'd like to do. If it's 15, we wouldn't be squawking, but if we could get it at ten, it would be ideal. But we don't get that all the time.

Okay. And that's your recommendation, ten years? COMMISSIONER AYERS: That's what I would like to see.

I would like to touch on another thing, fire stations. Now, it's my impression that these fire stations were going to have a system to deal with the emissions, actually an exhaust system placed in each of these fire stations. Do you know how many fire stations have been completed so far? COMMISSIONER AYERS: We have several fire stations that were completed, but they were completed with an exhaust system that was not in the agreement between the local and the City, and right now we have an ongoing project plan to replace all of the -- to put in 97 3/28/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114, ETC. systems that will be full-capture systems. Right now I'm not exactly certain of the exact number that's in. I can get that for you.

Can you get that for me? COMMISSIONER AYERS: I certainly will.

Now, in my understanding, there's two different systems. One is a source capture system and the other is a smoke eater. Is there much of a difference in cost compared to those two systems, and which would you recommend? COMMISSIONER AYERS: There is a difference in the cost, and Risk Management and the City has worked out an agreement with the local and they're both satisfied with them. I think they're going to have -- well, I'm pretty sure the system is going to be full capture.

Full capture? All right. I'm saying source 98 3/28/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114, ETC. capture. COMMISSIONER AYERS: Source.

Source capture? All right. And I'd appreciate that to see what the progress is in doing that, because I think that's one of the things that we want to make sure, that we're protecting the people who are going to protect us, and if we fail to do that, then if we put them in jeopardy, we're all in jeopardy. COMMISSIONER AYERS: Yes.

So I would like to ask you to see what you can do to really implement that program. I think it's very, very important. COMMISSIONER AYERS: Yes.

Thank you, Commissioner. Thank you, Madam President.

You're welcome. The Chair recognizes Councilman Ramos. 99 3/28/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114, ETC.

Thank you, Madam President. Commissioner, you mention in your statement that you had some bad news, and, that is, that there have been 39 fire deaths thus far this year. Are you making a projection that you'll probably go beyond the fire deaths that we have had in the last two years? COMMISSIONER AYERS: No. That is the fiscal year count. Right now on the annual count it's projecting that we are behind last year. We had on the same date 29 deaths. And now I'm talking the calendar year. We have right now, 17 fire deaths. And hopefully we won't. 18 The things that we're doing 19 over the past several years, the things 20 that we have done with education, with 21 smoke alarms, with the partnering in the 22 community, all of those things, we expect 23 that we'll raise the level of education for our citizens and the level of fire protection through the smoke alarm 100 3/28/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114, ETC. program. More and more people have started to donate and give us the opportunity to get those smoke alarms in the homes of folks that don't get the message, can't understand the reasoning. But that personal contact that we have in going door to door and with the Fire Safety Representative program, we believe that we're going to make a difference and that we will see the outcomes of this effort in lower fire deaths and injuries.

You've noted very clearly and I see you on the news talking about smoke detectors and giving out smoke detectors for free and putting them up yourselves, but the cause of the fire is something else, and you have talked recently about electrical wiring, the electrical heaters, the other space heaters and so forth. I mean, is the electrical wiring, is that something that you see or is that something you're seeing that is a cause of a lot of these 101 3/28/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114, ETC. fires? COMMISSIONER AYERS: Yes. We still see electrical causes as a large part of the fire deaths and injuries, permanent electrical wiring due to the age of many of the homes that we have to fight these fires in. Many times we'll see electrical appliances that are utilized in these homes that draw on the older wiring systems, some infrastructure problems that have to be taken care of. One of the things that we have done is, from a program perspective, was to protect people first, get in and have the fire safety issue, protection, getting people out of harm's way, showing folks how to make sure they have smoke alarms up, have a home fire escape plan. And then the third part to this program is actually telling people what they need to do to keep themselves fire safe in the first place. Our goal is not to have the fire. The Charter charges us with fire 102 3/28/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114, ETC. prevention, going and swearing that we go fight the fire, which we do. We put the fires out. Then the Fire Marshal makes the determination, the cause and the origin. And then that information is given to the Fire Prevention Division, where they are charged with creating programs for the citizens, programs for the firefighters to prevent the fire in the first place. Our home fire safety checklist, which we're really pushing now into all of the communities, and the Fire Safety Representative program is to help mitigate the chances to have the fire, electrical safety, smoking safety, people that smoke in the house, storage of flammable liquids and things like that. The charge now is to get yourself fully safe. So we want to not have to go out the door to a fire. We don't want to go out the door to a fire. We know that we're going to have fires until we get 103 3/28/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114, ETC. the infrastructure done, until we get people in housing that is suitable to live in and help change behaviors and things like that. Once we do that, we're going to continue to see everything go down. That's what we want. We want runs down, we want fires down, injuries down and everything. So the emphasis now is on those three things: protection, home escape planning and fire prevention in the first place.

Do you see more fires due to the electrical of faulty installation or just old electrical installations versus a space heater? I mean, is this happening more in one end versus the person smoking a cigarette? COMMISSIONER AYERS: They run pretty close together, but if you say due to electrical causes, you would combine electrical appliances and the improper use with the permanent and non-permanent 104 3/28/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114, ETC. electrical wiring, and it would trump probably everything on the list. We see houses where people don't use professionals. They'll overload circuits, put three and four circuits on one breaker at the same time, three or four appliances on one circuit. We see people who do haphazard jury-rigging wiring. It causes deaths, causes fires and injuries. The one key piece that we saw out of all of this, even with the electrical problems that we run into, is that with the smoke alarm program that we've been doing, we saw a dramatic 33 percent reduction in injuries. That's unprecedented. We never saw anything like that. So to us, we're still looking at it. We feel that people are getting the early warning and getting out of the way of the fire. It's just -- I mean, what else would you attribute it to? The fires only dropped 2.4 percent. The injuries dropped 33 percent. 105 3/28/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114, ETC.

Commissioner, a person that's out there -- we have an election coming up on May the 15th. People have the right to run for public office in this great democracy. A person that's running for public office, a non-incumbent, said this about your Fire Department to one of the local Spanish language newspapers. He said that the Fire Department is a disaster and that you make an emergency call and your entire family burns because of the inefficiency in this department. Have people died in any of the fires since you've been a fireman, since you've been the Commissioner due to the inefficiency of your department? And I quote. COMMISSIONER AYERS: Absolutely not. The men and women in the Philadelphia Fire Department, paramedics and firefighters, they go out, they give 110 percent. They do it all the time. 106 3/28/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114, ETC. They put their selves in jeopardy all the time. I have a...

I consider this statement to be appalling and irresponsible. COMMISSIONER AYERS: I have a firefighter in the hospital right now -- or he just came home. He just came home. He's got a long time before he heals. He and the other members who went down with him in the fire trying to save a man and several folks -- we got some people out. We got two or three people out. We saved them. The one person we couldn't get out, he died. But right now he's facing recovery, pain, surgery. He's got a cast from his hip to his toe, trying to save somebody. So I don't care what they're running for or what they're doing. If they're making statements like that, they have not examined the Philadelphia Fire Department. They have not done a case 107 3/28/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114, ETC. study on us. They don't know what we do. And it's obvious to me that they're just saying something, whatever it is. But I need to -- if I could get that, I'd like to respond to that person with a personal letter to him.

I'll make that available to you. Another area of your administration -- and this started quite a few years ago because it's the right thing to do and we're also very conscious of this. We're very conscious in this City Council and I would say all of us in this City know the importance of equality across the board, and the equality of minority inclusion is also an issue of -- minority inclusion in City jobs. What are your numbers nowadays with the inclusion of African-Americans and Latinos in your Fire Department? COMMISSIONER AYERS: African-Americans, approximately 25 percent, 27 percent. Latinos, 108 3/28/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114, ETC. approximately seven percent, somewhere around in there.

And I've seen this --

Excuse me. May I ask how many women? COMMISSIONER AYERS: Women, it's approximately, say, two percent. It's a very low percentage. It's one of our goals, to increase the women in the Fire Department. We have women in the current classes, but we want to do more to increase women, other minorities as well.

I've been, since I was elected to this Council, holding yearly job fairs right outside my office, and one of the things that I always do is make available to the public that's interested to come and apply for City jobs, with special emphasis on Police and Fire. And I put it out through the different mediums, the small community newspapers throughout the City 109 3/28/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114, ETC. in Southwest Philly, all over the place, to come. And I see that you do that quite a bit. It seems like there has been some success in doing that. Is there things that you've seen that holds back a minority community, whether Hispanic, black, Asian, women, from joining your department? COMMISSIONER AYERS: I think that we have to stay diligent with recruitment in all communities, all communities, making sure that the opportunity to come into the fire service or Police Department or any other departments where people can get good, solid work and become fruitful, tax-paying citizens and bring up their families and do all of the things -- the quality of life things that we hear coming from Council and coming from the Mayor, the things that we'd like to have the opportunity to do, and, that is, provide jobs. We want to provide jobs 110 3/28/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114, ETC. here. We want good, solid citizens for the Fire Department. And it is just making sure that we stay on our recruitment, education, making sure people know the opportunity is there.

And just recently, a few months ago, I was at a graduation at your facility and promotions of Latino firefighters, and I think it's the first time in the history of the Fire Department that a group of Latinos that have -- the numbers have grown, and because of it, they're moving up the ladder. And it was a lot of pride in the Spanish language newspapers. It was all over the place. I want to commend you for your efforts, but we still got a little ways to go. But it made a lot of people of that ethnic group very proud that their own was moving up and equal in the Department. So I want to thank you publicly for the work you're doing in that area. 111 3/28/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114, ETC. COMMISSIONER AYERS: Thank you, and I will submit to you that the men and women in the Latino community that come in the fire service, they work hard for the entire community and they work hard in their own community. So it's just an example of what people do when they stay focused on the mission of the Fire Department and dedicate themselves. So it is an opportunity and I was proud to be a part of that.

Well, we're proud of you. Thank you, Commissioner. Thank you, Madam President.

You're welcome. The Chair recognizes Councilwoman Miller.

Thank you. Thank you, Madam President. Good afternoon, Commissioner. I just want to thank you for the fine job that the Fire Department does. I just want to pick up on the 112 3/28/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114, ETC. question that Councilman Ramos was asking. How many Asians do you have? Do you have any that are firefighters? Or in the category of other, other than women, African-Americans, Hispanics? COMMISSIONER AYERS: I believe currently we have approximately three Asians. What I will do is, I will double-check that number on firefighter and paramedic and I'll get it back to you.

Okay. I was just wondering, because Philadelphia has so many different groups of residents now, it would be nice if everybody was represented. COMMISSIONER AYERS: Absolutely. I personally recruited in the Asian community for the last recruitment. I talked to several groups, talked to them about the opportunity, and we will do so again.

And what made me think of that is that I go to a 113 3/28/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114, ETC. nail shop to get my nails done and an Asian gentleman does my nails and he's no 4 longer there because he's actually in the Police Academy. I'm like, Oh, my God, he left to become a cop, but anyway... I just also want to know, how many paramedics do you presently have and how many do you need? COMMISSIONER AYERS: Two hundred twenty presently and 30 that we need.

So once you finish these last two classes, then your vacancy will only be 30? COMMISSIONER AYERS: The vacancy for the current configuration will be a little less than 30.

Are police officers trained to be paramedics? COMMISSIONER AYERS: No. 22

Okay. COMMISSIONER AYERS: No. We have some emergency medical technicians that we have trained and that is for the 114 3/28/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114, ETC. special teams within the Police Department, and we partner -- any time they need that service, we partner with them so that they can get their teams trained.

Okay. Now, just regarding the factors, I'd like to ask a question regarding the Operation Stand Down program. What are the factors that makes a neighborhood a high-risk area other than -- you did state that it's an area where there's recent fire deaths. Are there any other factors that would make a neighborhood high risk? COMMISSIONER AYERS: Yes, Councilwoman. We look at the numbers of fires, we look at the numbers of injuries and we look at the community, the age of the community, conditions in the community. And a lot of the times just the fires are indicators, but, unfortunately, we also get the injuries and the deaths along with that. And with Stand Down what we did was, instead of -- 115 3/28/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114, ETC. on a regular basis, we train approximately eight companies a day, take them out of service and they train at the Fire Academy or at other facilities depending on what the subject is. And instead of doing that training, over a period of time what we did was, we took those eight companies and had them partner with other companies in high-hazard areas and assisted them in installing smoke alarms and putting out fire prevention literature. So we shut the City down for everything with the exception of putting up smoke alarms and putting out fire prevention literature. Of course, with the exception of any emergencies that happened.

Right. I ask that question because I was wondering how you selected what areas you go in and do door to door to distribute smoke alarms. COMMISSIONER AYERS: We actually look at the census tract and 116 3/28/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114, ETC. then we take it down to the street segments themselves. So this block is a block where firefighters have been on three or four times for fires, and we would actually go into that block and target it.

And I was looking at your chart, your death analysis chart from 1996 to 2006. I know for a while when we first started NTI, demolishing properties, I know that when we were demolishing properties, you said fires were going down. COMMISSIONER AYERS: Yes.

Because we had gotten rid of so many abandoned buildings. COMMISSIONER AYERS: Yes.

But it's kind of interesting that -- and they went down for 2002, 3 and 4, and then we sort of had a spike of fire deaths in the incidents in 2005. They were going down good 2002, 2003, 2004, and then 2005 they 117 3/28/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114, ETC. started traveling up again. Is there any particular reason? I believe that when there's a fire, you do an investigation to try to figure out what caused the fire. So based on your analysis of what caused the fires, do we know why they sort of went up in 2005? COMMISSIONER AYERS: Yeah. It was combinations of causes, smoking, some were smoking, some were arson, some were electrical due to electrical causes. But, again, with the deaths, it's always families that didn't get an early warning or citizens that didn't get an early warning, a senior citizen that couldn't get out of the way and didn't have an early warning. I think in that year we lost a lot of senior citizens, and most of the seniors that we did lose were folks that didn't have folks coming over and changing the battery. One instance, I think it was on Keystone Street -- that might have been last year, but as an 118 3/28/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114, ETC. example, Keystone Street, we had an elderly couple. We had smoke alarms, one on every level, even in the basement, but they were old, outdated and batteries hadn't been changed. Still had the same batteries in them from who knows how long. So those were the things that elevated the number. We believe that the only way to get it down is to continue to educate. Unfortunately, we use ten-year averages because we have spikes. This year with the deaths we had and the 11 15 deaths we had within a seven, eight-day 16 period, it was something that we 17 experienced across the country as fire 18 chiefs, and we actually met in Mobile, 19 Alabama to talk about the subject. It's 20 like, What are we doing wrong? What do 21 we have to do? Why so many fire deaths? 22 And we looked at it, we examined it, and these are the kinds of things that just have to happen in the community. That cold snap caused a lot of 119 3/28/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114, ETC. folks to go to alternative heating, a lot of folks to do things that normally people wouldn't do in a structured environment or a healthy environment, complete healthy environment. The children, the mother, the pregnant mother, and the four children we lost on Walnut Street, you know, it's just not right thinking to take your children and to go and situate yourself in a one-room house that have no services, to steal or pilfer the electricity and set up just a hot water heater and that's the only thing there, using in the same room a refrigerator, a hot stove, a microwave oven, a heater. All of this in one room. So these are the kind of things that we run into, and those are things that we have to come together as a society, as system things, that have to be fixed, and if we don't fix those things, we're going to have people doing behaviors like that. So those are the kinds of 120 3/28/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114, ETC. things that we saw as chiefs across the country what we have facing us. And impingement is on the fire service. We're the first responders. We respond to it all. So these are the things -- this is where we need help. This is where we need help.

And I think, too, that we are always interacting with the public. We probably need to help you with your community education. COMMISSIONER AYERS: Yes.

We need to make sure that people know about fire prevention. COMMISSIONER AYERS: Well, Council has been very helpful. They've been responsive to all of the packages that we sent out. I get smoke alarm requests back from your constituents and we fill them. I mean, we're doing the things that we have to do, I believe. 121 3/28/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114, ETC.

I think we do, too. I think it's just something that we have to just keep hammering at. I know when we did the heater giveaways, I was really reluctant to do it, but on the other hand, you want to help people have heat, but you want to make sure that they knew how to use the heater properly. And so, of course, you guys were there on the scene -- COMMISSIONER AYERS: Yes.

-- educating everybody, almost one on one about how not to use the heater. Because I don't think people understand that they cannot put those in -- they have to put it in a wall socket and not into an extension cord. COMMISSIONER AYERS: Exactly.

But --

Point of information. Can I follow up?

Certainly. The Chair recognizes 122 3/28/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114, ETC. Councilman Rizzo.

Commissioner, you just said something that interests me. You talked about our senior citizens. What about senior citizens that can't hear a smoke detector? Have you stepped forward to the visual? Because I know that many of the hard-wired systems have a strobe light now for people that can't hear. COMMISSIONER AYERS: Yes.

But I was also thinking that there was a Code change where multi-dwellings, apartment buildings like here in Center City, had to go to a hard-wired system. But first comment on the visual. Is there anything portable that people that have hearing issues you could help put a visual detector in there? COMMISSIONER AYERS: Well, we can direct them to the services. We don't have that kind of service in the Fire Department. They do the strobe and 123 3/28/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114, ETC. they also -- they have a vibration piece that attaches to their pillow or is used as a pillow. So those are the kinds of things that --

But we don't have that? COMMISSIONER AYERS: No. The Fire Department don't have that.

But let's say that your firefighters were doing what they do, which is great, putting those smoke detectors up. If they came across, let's say, an 85-year-old lady that obviously couldn't hear, how would they deal with that? Is there another step you go? COMMISSIONER AYERS: Yes. We deal with like PCA, Philadelphia Corporation for the Aging, who help with services like that, and we direct them.

We just don't say, Well -- COMMISSIONER AYERS: We don't just leave them, no. We don't just leave 124 3/28/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114, ETC. them.

Thank you, Council Lady. Thank you, Madam President.

You're welcome.

You're welcome.

And I just want to ask one more question. How many firefighters did you say you had? what? 14 COMMISSIONER AYERS: That was 15 our total number. When we get our 16 classes out, we'll have 2,339, which is 17 our authorized number. 18

Okay. 19 COMMISSIONER AYERS: 2,315. 20 I'm sorry. I included some civilians. 21

Okay. I 22 think that that is it. I had another 23 question, but I can't remember what it 24 was. Anyway, thank you. 25 Thank you, Madam President. 125 3/28/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114, ETC.

You're welcome. COMMISSIONER AYERS: Thank you.

Councilman Savage.

Thank you, Madam President.

You're welcome.

Good afternoon, Commissioner. COMMISSIONER AYERS: Good afternoon, sir.

As you know, I put a resolution in calling for mandatory carbon monoxide detectors in every household. COMMISSIONER AYERS: Yes.

You were sent the resolution and we briefly talked about it, and you're going to testify at the hearings, as well as Brian McBride from Local 22? COMMISSIONER AYERS: Yes. 126 3/28/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114, ETC.

I commend your efforts to put a smoke detector in every home and increase awareness about their importance. Has any efforts been made to do the same for carbon monoxide detectors? COMMISSIONER AYERS: Actually, we did talk with Safety, Councilwoman Miller, about that to move forward and get them into homes. Currently, the only program that we have is a program we work with PGW on, where we come in and service a family that's been shut off and that person observes some dangerous situation or potentially dangerous situation, say a kerosene heater or if they see them using some other type of resource like electric heater, what we will do is, we come in and we would put smoke alarms or check to make sure that they had smoke alarms and also install one carbon monoxide detector. That was the program. We met with them last week, and we are going to partner to put together a 127 3/28/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114, ETC. safety sheet to go into the bills that would encourage families to get a CO detector and encourage families to have smoke alarms and to educate them of the danger of using gas -- going around the gas meter and things like that and also how dangerous carbon monoxide is if they use a kerosene heater and warn them not to use other types of appliances that would generate carbon monoxide. So just a real warning. So we're in the process of writing that pamphlet right now.

All right. Thank you, Commissioner.

Commissioner, when I last questioned you and you told me that we only had two percent women in the Fire Department, I've been sitting here asking myself why. Can you tell me if you have actively been trying to recruit women. COMMISSIONER AYERS: We have been not currently active, but during our recruitment, our last recruitment for 128 3/28/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114, ETC. this current list that we are operating on now, we did actively recruit women. We went after female firefighters. We had several that did pass the test and got on the list, even some women that had just came out of the Service. Unfortunately, this is, I believe, the fourth recruit class. In a couple of recruit classes a couple of the women just didn't come in. They actually said they couldn't do it.

So how many do you have in the recruitment classes? COMMISSIONER AYERS: I will tell you exactly how many women that we have after this testimony. I'll get that back to your office this afternoon.

Give me just a little rough number. Would it be one? Would it be five? COMMISSIONER AYERS: Three, four. I believe it's three or four women. I don't have the exact number. 129 3/28/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114, ETC.

All right. Would you get back to me, please? I'd be curious to see that. Councilman Rizzo.

Thank you, Madam President. Commissioner, I want to go back to -- I'm not going to ask him that question, Budget Director, so relax. COMMISSIONER AYERS: I apologize. COMMISSIONER RIZZO: Not a problem. If she would have waited until I made my statement, she wouldn't have had to whisper in your ear. I'm going to not here publicly discuss these contractual issues. I'm going to have a private conversation with you off the record about that. COMMISSIONER AYERS: Yes, sir.

But I want to go back to the call-takers, because something has developed while we're having this proceeding that I might have 130 3/28/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114, ETC. to comment on. Could you explain how the process works? I know in the Police Department we have call-takers and dispatchers. COMMISSIONER AYERS: Yes.

Do you have that same scenario in the Fire Department? COMMISSIONER AYERS: Yes. We have a person that takes the call in, and then as the person that's taking the call in, they are entering it on a screen and the dispatcher is receiving it on the screen and dispatching it at the same time the call-taker is taking the call.

Okay. Earlier in the hearing I believe it was President Verna that discussed this issue with you. Do you have shortages of either call-takers or dispatchers right now? And I mean in positions, not that you're using overtime to cover that. Are you short of either dispatchers or -- can 131 3/28/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114, ETC. a dispatcher be a call-taker and a call-taker be a dispatcher? COMMISSIONER AYERS: Yes.

Do you have shortages of those positions right now? COMMISSIONER AYERS: Are you saying that we have currently as we're sitting right now a seat that's unfilled?

No. In other words, the Fire Department, how many call-takers and dispatchers do you require? COMMISSIONER AYERS: It will be 11 on a shift.

Eleven on a shift? COMMISSIONER AYERS: Right.

So for four tours of duty? Is it four tours or three tours? COMMISSIONER AYERS: No. It's three tours.

In other words, my question is, without dancing 132 3/28/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114, ETC. around here, do you have enough dispatchers and call-takers employed by the Fire Department to put people 5 without overtime in those seats? 6 COMMISSIONER AYERS: Depending 7 on the platoon, we may have a platoon 8 that may be short one or two, but we are 9 also -- we have call-takers being trained 10 currently as well. 11

That's not a contractual issue, is it? So how many positions short are you today that are not employed by the Fire Department that you need to put 11 in each platoon at their task? COMMISSIONER AYERS: Right now I would have to look at the platoon configuration, but we have currently enough people to do that staffing.

Commissioner, I normally communicate fairly well. Eleven people per platoon. Do you have 11 people or do you have more than 11 for back-up? How many positions 133 3/28/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114, ETC. do you have that are not filled that are call-takers or dispatchers? COMMISSIONER AYERS: I will have to get back to you with that so that I can give you an exact answer how many per platoon we may be short.

Overall how many are you short? COMMISSIONER AYERS: I will actually -- well, we had 49 in '06 and we actually have 54 that's in our billet right now.

Fifty-four? COMMISSIONER AYERS: So we're budgeted for 54. It got cut back to 52. We had 49 last year.

Well, how many do you have right now? COMMISSIONER AYERS: Again, I'll have to let you know. I know that we are training.

But you are short positions for the call-taker or dispatcher? 134 3/28/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114, ETC. COMMISSIONER AYERS: I know we're short because we're training, but how many, I can't say.

When they're not in the seat training, they're not doing the job, or are they actually in training in the seat? COMMISSIONER AYERS: Oh, no. 10 No. They don't take the seat until they're trained.

Okay. My next question is --

Can I ask a question?

Yes, ma'am, absolutely.

How many do you have in training at the present time, Commissioner? COMMISSIONER AYERS: I believe the class is six.

Six in training. So your figures calculate... 135 3/28/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114, ETC.

The reason I'm asking that question is that I recently had an experience where I thought it was technology failure -- you're going to get back to us with those numbers, correct -- COMMISSIONER AYERS: Yes.

-- to the Chair? I recently thought it was technology, but now I'm starting to think that maybe it wasn't. I called 9-1-1 to report an accident that needed medical services. The dispatcher at Police radio does what they do to patch the call through, 9-1-1 to the Fire Department. It just rang and rang and rang. So finally the call-taker at 9-1-1 said, Something is not right here, let me try this again, and disconnected, reconnected. It took about four or five rings for Fire Rescue to answer the phone. I kind of recollect the days when that was kind of like the first ring 136 3/28/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114, ETC. answer. Is that your goal, like first or second ring to answer that call that's handed off to you? COMMISSIONER AYERS: Yeah, I'm sure it is. There's seconds. We operate on seconds, minutes and national averages. So I'm sure that there is a time, a set time, when that phone should be answered.

So, in other words, a caller needing to report a fire or a medical emergency, they call 9-1-1 and the call is handed off and the dispatcher from Police stays on the line, from what I understand -- COMMISSIONER AYERS: That's correct.

-- to capture that information. If there's a fire or a medical emergency, since the Police are the ones that move the call to the Fire Department, do they dispatch automatically to a report of a house fire or a medical emergency? Is it automatic 137 3/28/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114, ETC. that since the Police are the first agency to get the call, do they capture the information and send a patrol car to that location, fire or medical emergency? COMMISSIONER AYERS: Usually the police car -- they'll give this information and there will be a police car that will respond as well. So they'll be responding, Fire will be responding.

So it's automatic that if someone calls that Mr. Jones is on the ground, we think he's had a heart attack -- I'm getting some nods in the back that that's not the case. COMMISSIONER AYERS: Well, do Police dispatch? Police dispatch many times on emergencies. When they get it, they're the call-taker, the original call-taker. They'll run a car on it if there's a car available. They're not there to deliver the intervention. They're there because they're just the 138 3/28/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114, ETC. police.

But my point is -- COMMISSIONER AYERS: With traffic and --

-- is it a policy -- I guess that's a better way to put it -- is it a policy that the Police automatically when they receive a call, since their 9-1-1 call-taker is on the line, that they gather the information that's given to the Fire Department and they dispatch a police car to do what you just described, assist for -- COMMISSIONER AYERS: I can't tell you what the Police policy is.

I just wanted to know. COMMISSIONER AYERS: Our policy is that we go.

But why did I experience five, six rings before they picked up at your end? COMMISSIONER AYERS: I couldn't 139 3/28/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114, ETC. tell you.

But that's not the norm, correct? COMMISSIONER AYERS: I don't think that that's normal. It would have to be that the system is like absolutely swamped.

How many people are there to answer those calls? COMMISSIONER AYERS: We have 11 people on duty and they split up between dispatch and call-taking.

Okay. COMMISSIONER AYERS: I can give you a complete rundown on all of it for you.

Okay. So you are short dispatchers and you'll give us the exact number of what that is, and you have six in training, which should be hitting the room within the next reasonable period of time? COMMISSIONER AYERS: Yes.

When? 140 3/28/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114, ETC. COMMISSIONER AYERS: I'm not sure. I'll have that information for you.

Okay. Madam President, thank you.

You're welcome. Commissioner, when you forward to my attention the information that I was asking about the fire women, would you also provide me with information as to how many firefighters are women in other large cities? COMMISSIONER AYERS: Oh, okay. A survey?

I would like to do that comparison. Do you have a problem with that? COMMISSIONER AYERS: Oh, no. 22

No. 23 I'm not asking you. I'm asking --

Dianne Reed, Budget Director. 141 3/28/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114, ETC.

I can hear you.

Okay. No. I was just discussing with the Commissioner before that there are probably more like women all together, and he was saying 8 the three or four number is probably just 9 the number in the classes right now. I 10 wasn't sure if that was clear to you. 11

I 12 think that's what he indicated. He said 13 there were two percent and I believe he 14 said there were three percent being 15 trained at this time. So I would still 16 like that information, if you don't mind. 17 Are there any other questions 18 from members of the Committee? 19 (No response.) 20

Commissioner, I want to thank you and the Department for doing such a magnificent job. Thank you so much, and I'll expect that information to be forthcoming in the next week or so. 142 3/28/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114, ETC. COMMISSIONER AYERS: Yes, ma'am.

Thank you. COMMISSIONER AYERS: Thank you, Councilwoman.

You're welcome. COMMISSIONER AYERS: Council President and to all of the Councilmembers, thank you.

You're welcome. MR. McPHERSON: The next department is the Philadelphia Prisons.

Thank you. You have been extremely patient, and we thank you for that. Commissioner, your testimony is rather lengthy. COMMISSIONER KING: Yes.

If you could abbreviate it, we will give a copy of your testimony to the stenographer and it will be transcribed 143 3/28/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114, ETC. in full. COMMISSIONER KING: Okay.

So I think, as I said, I'm sure you're getting a little hungry, and apparently some of my colleagues have already reached that point. So if you don't mind, I would appreciate your abbreviating. COMMISSIONER KING: I will just read into the record the introductory paragraph. How is that?

No. 14 I think you have to read a little bit more than that. COMMISSIONER KING: President Verna and members of City Council, I am Leon King, Commissioner of the Philadelphia Prison System. To my right is Deputy Commissioner Hammond. He's our Deputy Commissioner for Restorative and Transitional Services. And to my right is Mr. Szymanski, our Fiscal Officer. At the PPS, our greatest challenge is to provide cost-effective 144 3/28/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114, ETC. services for the taxpayers of the City of Philadelphia while providing a safe, secure and humane correctional environment that adequately detains persons accused or convicted of illegal acts. In FY07, we are meeting the challenge to provide these services to an inmate population that averaged 8,780 for the fiscal year to date and exceeded 8,900 at times during the months of September and October of 2006. The $218 million Operating Budget request for FY08 is 11.5 million more than our FY07 estimated obligation level. The FY08 General Fund Class 100 request of 117 million is expected to fund 2,400 full-time positions. The General Fund Class 200 request of 95 million provides for increased costs of contracted inmate housing and for contracted maintenance services at the Curran-Fromhold Correctional Facility and the Riverside Correctional Facility. The requested funding levels for Classes 300 145 3/28/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114, ETC. and 400 remain the same as the FY07 estimated obligation level. Inmate work payments, Class 500, remain the same as the estimated obligations for FY07. And you'll see in the testimony I've presented there are a number of initiatives going on in various areas at the Prison to more effectively run the Prison System and deal with the challenges that we face. That concludes my introductory remarks and I'm ready to take questions.

Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Commissioner, you mention in your testimony various initiatives to address the growth rate of the prison population. Can you tell us what AXIOM stands for? COMMISSIONER KING: Well, actually, it doesn't stand for anything. The staff at the Prison thought that we had too many acronyms -- is that the word -- so it's actually just a word, and 146 3/28/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114, ETC. I can't remember what it means necessarily, but it reflects the fact that this is a system where you go to get information to answer questions. So AXIOM -- one of the challenges we face in trying to manage the Prison System is that we have an outdated computer system, number one, and there are a lot of things that we track that we do by paper. So AXIOM, though, is mainly, in its first stages, to address the population problem. So when someone says, for example, I think it would be a good idea to address people who have $500 worth of bail at the prison, maybe we can do something else with them, well, we have no way of telling you real quick how many people that is, where they're from, et cetera. So AXIOM is the type of thing that's going to allow us to analyze the population so we can come up with better alternatives to reduce things, and then we'll move it on to others. 147 3/28/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114, ETC.

So in a sense, you told us what it is. COMMISSIONER KING: Excuse me?

I said in a sense, you have told us what it stands for. COMMISSIONER KING: Okay.

Can you tell us the number of sentenced inmates that are currently at your facility? COMMISSIONER KING: I can't tell you that number specifically. It's one of the reasons we need AXIOM, but generally speaking, 30 to 40 percent of the inmates at the Prison are sentenced.

Okay. And I guess you cannot tell us the number of detainees you have? COMMISSIONER KING: Well, it's approximately 60 percent. So if you take our population today of 8,700, what's 60 percent of that? Three or four thousand inmates. The vast majority of them are 148 3/28/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114, ETC. pretrial.

Can you tell us -- I guess you're not going to be able to answer this unless you have the computers -- what is the number of inmates that are serving state time but the judge has ordered they serve their time in the county prison? COMMISSIONER KING: I believe that number is between 200 and 300 inmates, something like that. And we have started something with the District Attorney's Office to try and address that. I know they filed a petition with Judge Keogh to try and get those inmates out of our custody and into state custody. Their initial filing was successful. I think they wanted to do a test filing and I think we got rid of 15 to 20 inmates. So now the next step is for them to sort of widen that and try and get rid of some more of those state-sentenced inmates.

What 149 3/28/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114, ETC. does this cost the City and do we get reimbursed by the state for these inmates? COMMISSIONER KING: No, we don't get reimbursed by the state. I can get -- Mr. Szymanski can get you that number. I'm not sure we have it right here. He's saying if you use the per diem $88 a day and multiply that out. But we'll do it for you and get you that number.

That would be fine. COMMISSIONER KING: But you have to understand that the judges are the ones who sentence them to these -- if they have a sentence of two years or more or up to five, the judge has the option of making them serve the state time in the county prison. So the judge says, Okay, you got a state sentence, but you're serving it in the county. That's how it works. 150 3/28/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114, ETC.

On of your testimony, you mention expanded capacity. You state that the PPS has created temporary and emergency housing to meet short-term needs and has aggressively pursued contracted space to meet the anticipated needs of further growth. What are the locations of the temporary and emergency housing locations? COMMISSIONER KING: All of the jails have temporary and emergency housing locations. I mean, the way it has worked traditionally with the prisons -- for example, we take House of Corrections, the oldest facility. It's built to house a certain number of inmates, and then we add temporary and emergency areas in places that weren't originally designed for inmates and we put showers, toilets and beds in those areas. So all the jails, I believe, 151 3/28/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114, ETC. except PICC, have temporary and emergency areas, and then there's the contracted space.

So we haven't contracted space other than, I guess, space that are existing Prison facilities. COMMISSIONER KING: No. We also have -- I guess you would term that temporary emergency beds in Monmouth County.

Where? COMMISSIONER KING: Monmouth County, New Jersey. I believe we have around 135 inmates in Monmouth County now. We just actually issued a notice to proceed today to house inmates in Lehigh County in Pennsylvania. We're getting ready to send some females up there. I think it's up to 100 beds that we're going to have there. We entered into a contract with CEC. I think it's Community Education 152 3/28/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114, ETC. Centers at D and Erie. Is that where it is? Yes. And they're going to build us 200 beds that we hope to occupy in December. We just opened a new work release facility at 10th and Lehigh in the old YMCA building that we're going to house 110 people, and we continue to look in other places to house more inmates.

At what point in time does it become more economical to build a new facility? COMMISSIONER KING: Well, what point in time? You always have to consider building new facilities when you have aging facilities like the House of Correction and the Detention Center. So that's always got to be in the plan, building new prisons, certainly to replace current capacity. We have a particular situation right now with the juvenile inmates where the Administration is asking PICA for money to build a direct-file juvenile 153 3/28/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114, ETC. facility at the jail, because we have inmates, some of them triple-celled, the direct file, the kids, in the House of Correction. So that's a place to do it. But you have to be strategic in those sorts of places, because what I've been telling people is, the inmate population increases three to four percent a year basically, and if you wanted to keep up with the growth without any new initiatives by anybody who wants to hire a thousand police or 2,000 police, it's $58 million it cost us to build the last facility, RCF, for 768 beds and it cost us $20 million to run that facility. So if you do the math, every two and a half years we'd have to be spending $58 million to build a new jail to keep up with the inmate population. So I guess in answer to your question, you have to be strategic and you have to replace old, aging facilities. When the proper situation 154 3/28/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114, ETC. arises, you build a new facility, but you can't have it be the be-all-and-end-all of dealing with inmates, because it's just, I think -- I was reading a newspaper from 1952 that had to do with the Prison, and the Superintendent at the time, Mr. Hendricks, he was talking about over-population and keeping up with the inmates. So it's a never-ending cycle, and sometimes it's appropriate. But the last community meeting I went to out in Cobbs Creek, I asked them all to raise their hand and tell me whether or not they would enjoy to have a prison next to their house, around the corner, near their kids, near their grandmother. Nobody wanted a prison anywhere. So even if I wanted to build one, Councilwoman Blackwell, I'm not sure where everyone would let us put it.

You spoke about 60 percent of detainees are in your facility. COMMISSIONER KING: Yes. 155 3/28/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114, ETC.

How long does it take before a detainee goes to trial? COMMISSIONER KING: That I cannot tell you off the top of my head. That is another reason we need the AXIOM system. We do know that the vast majority of those people get out -- and I don't remember the percentage -- in two or three weeks once they pay their bail. Because what happens a lot of the times is, they get arrested. They have a bail amount. They go to their first preliminary hearing. No one is ready for the hearing. They continue it. They'll go to the second hearing. No one is ready for the hearing. They go to the third hearing and the judge says, Oh, we gave you a $15,000 bail the first time. That was too much. It's 5,000. Then they get released. In the meantime, the City is on the tab at $88 a day to house these people. Then for those who aren't in 156 3/28/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114, ETC. custody, the time it takes them to go to trial is something the prisons would like to know so that we can forward that on to the people in the judiciary, because our impression is that there are a lot of unnecessary continuances and other things that cause inmates to be in the -- the pretrial population to be there longer when they could expedite things and either find people not guilty, send them to the state as opposed to just sitting there.

How often do you and perhaps the District Attorney, the Police Commissioner, the Voluntary Defenders Office, whoever is involved in the system, how frequently do you meet and discuss issues such as we're talking about presently? COMMISSIONER KING: Well, we've been meeting and discussing them, I would say, for six years through the Criminal Justice Coordinating Committee. Usually we try to meet in the beginning every 157 3/28/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114, ETC. month. Then it was bimonthly. We just met, a subcommittee of that group, last Thursday, and we have another meeting this week, and we discuss these things. The challenge is -- the Solicitor heads that committee. The challenge is, you have the DA, who is an independent elected official, has a particular view of something. The judges are 150 elected officials, who all have their own view of doing things. So there's a challenge there. Everybody is aware of these issues. We had a study done through Dr. Goldkamp at Temple and there's information there, so you can look and you can see that obviously there are issues with processing cases and things of that nature. So we're all aware of what the issues are and they're there. The challenge is trying to get everybody coordinated so someone will take a stand. Judge Fitzgerald did that back last year on September 11th when he said 158 3/28/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114, ETC. there's a -- I don't know if he would call it a backlog, but what I perceive to be a backlog in criminal cases in the Court of Common Pleas. He said, This is obviously contributing to the overcrowding, let's do something about it. So now they've expedited and they've made sure the courts are open from 9:00 to 5:00 as opposed to some other hour and they're getting rid of more cases. Our challenge at the Prison is, we can't tell yet whether the cases they're getting rid of are people who were in custody or people who weren't, and that's another reason that we want to have the AXIOM system. And the proof will be in the pudding. If we get to July or August and the Prison census is still at 86 or 87, then maybe I'll be able to say what Judge Fitzgerald did worked. Right now I can't say that, because we've been very lucky --

When do you anticipate this system to be in 159 3/28/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114, ETC. operation? COMMISSIONER KING: In the next six to eight weeks, we're going to be able to start doing inquiries into the AXIOM system. We've been working on it a while.

All right. I only have, if you don't mind, another question or two and then I know my colleagues would like to be recognized. On of your testimony, you mention correctional healthcare. You mention that approximately 32,000 individuals will be admitted to the PPS during FY08. I have to assume that the majority of these are detainees. COMMISSIONER KING: Yes.

Is the PPS eligible for any reimbursement for detainees' healthcare costs? COMMISSIONER KING: As it stands right now, we don't get any reimbursement from anybody for inmate 160 3/28/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114, ETC. healthcare costs. There was an initiative and I think that's still ongoing with the Department of Public Welfare to try and get some reimbursement for those inmates who on the outside would be eligible for those source of things, and we've had a stalemate, I guess, for the past however long on that issue. Also, we are trying to see whether we can reorganize our pharmacy services, for example, so we can qualify as a -- I think it's called a healthcare site, that we can get pricing that is commensurate with what you would get if you were the federal government or the state. So we have those two sorts of things, but as it stands generally, the law, as I understand it, is if you're on SSI or you're Medicaid and you get arrested and you're a pretrial detainee, you get your benefits cut off. And it's a challenge as well when they get 161 3/28/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114, ETC. released. For example, if they're a mental health patient and before they had the state or somebody paying for their medication and they get out, there's a while before they're able to get reconnected. So we try to give them discharge meds, but if they don't get reconnected, they're not on their medication, they decompensate, they commit a crime, they come back.

Is this governed at the state or federal level? COMMISSIONER KING: Excuse me?

Is this governed by the state or federal level? COMMISSIONER KING: The state and the federal government.

And are we lobbying for changes? COMMISSIONER KING: As I understand, we are and have been in negotiations, conversations with the 162 3/28/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114, ETC. state Department of Welfare on this issue. I couldn't tell you right now -- I don't think Ms. Steiker is here -- where we are on that.

Because this gets to be very costly, I'm sure. COMMISSIONER KING: Yes. It's just one of those things and it's -- unfortunately, and I don't know where it started, but in this country, I think our position a lot of times is, you got arrested, take away your benefits, take away your voting rights, don't let you go to college, don't let you do anything. And we figure we're winning that way and we really aren't.

Commissioner, thank you very much. The Chair recognizes Councilman Greenlee.

Thank you, Madam President. Good afternoon, Commissioner. 163 3/28/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114, ETC. COMMISSIONER KING: Good afternoon.

We have heard in the past here in Council from correction officers and certainly we've heard from former and some current inmates about some of the concerns up in the prisons, particularly with the increase in violence, both inmates versus inmates and correctional officers and inmates. First of all, would you consider that an accurate statement? Have those incidents increased, say, in the last couple of years? COMMISSIONER KING: If you look at those types of incidents beginning like in the year 2000 and you get to this date, yes, they have increased, and they have increased because the inmate population has increased. There has not been, because we're able to track this, there hasn't been any significant increase over a period of time of violence at the prisons. There just 164 3/28/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114, ETC. hasn't.

There has not, you said? COMMISSIONER KING: No. I know that is the perception of some of the staff members at the Prison, but it's just not the case. I mean, there have been -- every once in a while, there's an uptick in something, but if you look at the numbers overall, that's not the case. And it's not to say we don't take it seriously. Somebody I was talking to yesterday said, Oh, there's a lot of stabbings at PICC. I said, Well, that's not true. One stabbing is too many, but, you know...

Obviously not that I question your number, but could you provide those numbers to the President of the inmates? COMMISSIONER KING: Sure.

I appreciate that. 165 3/28/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114, ETC. Along those same lines, there's some questions raised about the staffing or lack of same up there, particularly I believe there were some layoffs in '05; is that correct? COMMISSIONER KING: Yes.

Let me just throw a couple things. Social workers, do they have a bigger caseload than they did before? COMMISSIONER KING: Absolutely. When the population goes up -- our policy has been for every hundred inmates, you're supposed to have a social worker, and I think we've done pretty well over the years keeping up with that. Right now we don't have that ratio. We have some authorization to hire more social workers. Right now we're having a little trouble getting them through the pipeline, so we're reevaluating how we do that, and we want to hire some -- instead of hiring straight off the Social Worker II list, we want to hire entry-level 166 3/28/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114, ETC. social worker folks, sort of groom them to work at the prisons, and we've been told by Personnel that we'll have a better way of going there. And, yes, I think as was reflected when the Chief of Staff testified, all of us departments have needs that we think need to be met, but there hasn't been the money. There's no money there to take us where we need to be. But the social workers, there are some of them that have a lot of cases, and it's a challenge.

Do you know the average? I know you said one per hundred inmates. Do you know what they average, say? COMMISSIONER KING: It depends, and I'll let Deputy Commissioner Hammond handle it if I miss anything. It depends on what type of social worker you are. If you're on an Options Unit, for example, you probably got a caseload that's manageable and reasonable. If you're a social worker at the Detention 167 3/28/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114, ETC. Center, based on the numbers the last time I saw them, you're going to have more of a challenge. And we have some social workers there that, yeah, have a caseload of 150 or 200 people. If you're a social worker in the Intake area at CFCF, that is a constant, constant flow and you have an increased caseload. So it's true that we're not where we would like to be, but, again, we have these budget challenges. There's only so much money to go around and we're trying to keep up as best as we can.

Again, along those same lines, have there been any increase or ability to increase any programs like, say, education programs or anything like that there, or we're running into the same thing because of the increase in inmates? COMMISSIONER KING: We've had some new initiatives in the four years since I've been there. We've had the Jobs Project that I think is probably 168 3/28/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114, ETC. going to end at the end of this fiscal year that was pretty successful that we funded out of some settlement money. I think we have increased maybe by two the Options Units that we have at the Prison. We have the Pennypack School, which is an arm of the School District, and we have a great principal, who he just sent me a letter last week about all the great things that he's been doing to increase people to get into GED and things of that nature. And I think we're doing pretty well with the direct-file juveniles. Now, I'm not saying -- as I said, everybody in the City would like to do more. I think we're doing pretty well with what has been divided up. But there have been some new things, and we continue in our getting creative, and we want to have a better relationship with the community. So, for example, we started a partnership with Mothers in Charge -- and I don't think that's costing the City any money -- where they 169 3/28/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114, ETC. come in and they're mentoring and working with the direct-file juveniles. We have another, the Frankford Redirection Project up in Frankford, where we went out and said, We need you to help. They went out and formed their own non-profit corporation. They came in. They have mentors for inmates. They have support services when they leave. So we're constantly working with volunteers and others to supplement where there isn't the money right now for programming.

One of the other things we heard is particularly with recreational time that because of more inmates, that there's less time, and that adds to the friction up there. Would you say that's an accurate statement? COMMISSIONER KING: Well, I would say that it makes it more challenging, yes. I mean, you talked about the layoffs. When we made the 170 3/28/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114, ETC. layoffs, we didn't lay off any correctional officers back in 2005. We didn't lay off any correctional officers. We didn't lay off any social workers. I think we laid off a psychologist, three recreation leaders and I think the rest of them were clerical people. So we did pretty good with the layoffs. But it creates a challenge for us when you don't have the recreation leaders or whatever. You have to depend on the COs or whoever to organize recreation. So it makes it more challenging. And, of course, you want inmates to recreate, because the more they're doing something else, the less time they have to spend on doing things they shouldn't.

How about anger management? COMMISSIONER KING: We do that for inmates. They get that in Options. They get that in the Jobs Project. And I know we also have partnerships with 171 3/28/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114, ETC. Temple and Drexel and I think Penn, that they come in and work with the inmates, and anger management is one of the regular programming things, anger management, parenting skills, all those sorts of things that we teach.

Okay. Thanks. I know you mentioned dietary issues in your healthcare. Is that something that you feel has improved? Is there a dietician or do you have dieticians? COMMISSIONER KING: Yes. We have a dietician on staff. I believe it's with Aramark. Because when you go around and talk to the inmates, every once in a while I get a complaint about the food. Prison food has a certain reputation, and it doesn't necessarily look like what you might get at Ruth's Chris or somewhere, but --

I don't think that's to be expected. 172 3/28/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114, ETC. COMMISSIONER KING: Right. But we know what's in the food, and it has all the things that you need to be a happy, healthy individual. And we did go recently to the heart-healthy diet, because we had a lot of different people who had dietary requirements, if you're diabetic or you have a heart problem. So it's a low-sodium, very healthy meal.

I might have to try that myself. COMMISSIONER KING: Okay.

Not at your facility. You were talking, I think, about the juvenile situation. Is my understanding that there are juvenile female offenders up there? COMMISSIONER KING: Yes.

And how are they housed vis-a-vis the adults? COMMISSIONER KING: Well, they're housed in the adult female facility. We typically only have three 173 3/28/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114, ETC. or four, something like that, there. They're housed. They're locked in their cells and they're not allowed to be out when the adults are out. And we have specialized programming for them, because they have to go to school, I think, until they're 21. So the Pennypack School has special services that deal with just the juveniles. And Social Services also has a special focus on them. Now, we don't like that. We don't like the fact that the male juveniles are in an adult facility either, and that's why we want to get some money from PICA to take one of the buildings that we already have up on the Prison campus and make it a facility for our juveniles.

Okay. And how long has that been going on where -- has that been for quite a while, that the juveniles have been in there? COMMISSIONER KING: Yes. I've been with the prisons for -- I don't 174 3/28/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114, ETC. remember when it started. It's not an old thing, but it's not a new thing. It's been there a while. They changed the law and said, Now you commit X, Y and Z crime, you're automatically an adult and it's on your attorney to prove to the Court that you should be remanded to the Youth Study Center. So that's why we have this situation, which sometimes manifests itself with 11- and 12-year-old people being up at the Prison, which is kind of --

Because I remember that incident years ago where a young girl killed somebody in South Philly. COMMISSIONER KING: Miriam White. She's our youngest, 11. She was 11 years old.

I mean, I understand that may have been a real egregious case, but it doesn't seem like it serves anybody's purpose to have them 175 3/28/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114, ETC. in an adult facility. COMMISSIONER KING: No. We went back and forth with her attorneys and whatnot, because I was general counsel back then, and I think we got her over to the custody of the Department of Human Services and we sent her to Texas, and I think she's still in Texas.

Is that where she is? Okay. Speaking of facilities, by the way, I know Councilwoman Krajewski has raised this issue before. What's the situation with Holmesburg Prison? Where does that stand now, if you can say? COMMISSIONER KING: Holmesburg Prison stands on Torresdale Avenue.

What is the future of Holmesburg Prison? COMMISSIONER KING: Well, right now, last summer because of the situation that was going on, we rehabbed the gymnasium, which is like -- it's like detached from the rest of the Prison 176 3/28/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114, ETC. where we house 80 intake inmates. The gym has been closed now for four weeks -- about six weeks because the population has been down and we haven't had to use it. When the population goes back up, which I'm assuming that it will, there will probably come some point in the spring or the summer we'll have to open the gym up again for those 80 people. There was some work done on another part of the jail early on that caused Councilwoman Krajewski some concern, consternation and annoyance where we were thinking about putting more beds into Holmesburg to meet the population demands, but right now, since the Councilwoman voiced her concern, as it were, no work has gone on there. So right now the future plan is to use the gym, and the other part of it is an issue beyond.

No other expansion planned, to your knowledge? Is that fair to say? 177 3/28/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114, ETC. COMMISSIONER KING: Not at this moment.

Point of information on that, please.

The Chair recognizes Councilman Rizzo for a point of information.

Thank you. Commissioner, I can understand Councilwoman Krajewski's concern about the increase in the population or the use for housing inmates at that location because of the concerns from the community, but I have a question. Have we talked to the community, Council Lady Krajewski to see if there's any other appropriate use for the facility? I had an inquiry from the Police Department that it's a shame we have a space there that obviously could be utilized for something that's acceptable to the Councilperson and the community. Has there been any look at utilizing it for something that would 178 3/28/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114, ETC. save the taxpayers of this City money since we're already using it and paying for the facility? COMMISSIONER KING: My conversations and visits with the community, my sense was what they want there is a park. They would like us to demolish the buildings on the inside and they would like to have a park there. That's my read. I would imagine the Public Property Commissioner would know more about that particular issue since it's her area, but that was my read from the community. We also have a barricade shop there where we make all the barricades for the Police Department. That's located there.

Well, they'll keep you real busy with that, because they put them out, use them once and the traffic takes care of recycling. COMMISSIONER KING: Oh, I didn't know that. 179 3/28/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114, ETC.

But there must be something that the community would say, other than, let's say, the extreme of making it a park. How usable is it for office space or whatever? COMMISSIONER KING: No. 8 Holmesburg, we use the administration building in the front for our training academy. In the gatehouse right when you walk in, the cert team is there and there's a gym for the cert team, and then we have the barricade shop and the gym where the inmates are. The rest of it, when we started doing the work on what we call Soup Alley, I mean, it's no 17 condition. You would have to put lots of money in there to get rid of the lead, the asbestos, the pigeons, the things the pigeons leave behind.

Sounds like it will make a nice park. COMMISSIONER KING: Yeah.

Thank you. Thank you, Madam President. 180 3/28/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114, ETC.

You're welcome. The Chair recognizes Councilwoman Blackwell.

I think Councilman Greenlee isn't finished.

I just have one more, but if you would like to go --

That's all right. I can wait.

I'm sorry. I didn't realize that was just a point of information.

That's okay. I know I'm going a little long, but I just have one more question, if I could. On the private building at the 10th and Lehigh site you were talking about, those workers there will all be private individuals? That's not City employees, right? COMMISSIONER KING: Correct. 181 3/28/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114, ETC.

Okay. That's different, because before weren't there some places rented but there were City employees that worked there? COMMISSIONER KING: Well, we have two other sites, CEC at 17th and Cambria that is -- the facility is rented from and provided by Liberty Management, and City employees work there. 600 University is the same way. We lease that from Liberty Management, and City employees work there. In the past, we've had, for example, Delaware County. That was a contract with Delaware County. Their people worked there. In the beginning, it was county employees and then it was employees of the private company that took over the prison. At 10th and Lehigh, Liberty Management leases the building and they provide the employees. Our employees have oversight of what goes on there. And, for example, our District Council 47 people have some supervisory 182 3/28/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114, ETC. responsibility for the programming and all of that, but it is private employees.

What was the reason for the change? COMMISSIONER KING: It wasn't as though we sat down and said, We need to change this. The issue was we needed bed space and we needed bed space quickly and we had to live within a budget. So we took --

So it was budgetary related? COMMISSIONER KING: Yes. We put a notice on the -- we have to do that new reporting thing for contracts. People came back with bids, and it's cheaper to do it this way.

Do you have figures as far as the breakdown of how it's less expensive there? COMMISSIONER KING: I can get you the numbers. I believe at 10th and Lehigh the numbers are like $66 a day or $62 a day per inmate as opposed to the 183 3/28/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114, ETC. $88 per day it costs on State Road.

Okay. All right. Thank you very much. Thank you, Madam President.

You're welcome. The Chair recognizes Councilwoman Blackwell.

Thank you, Madam President. I am very glad to know where Holmesburg is located, Commissioner. And certainly we want to applaud the healthcare initiatives you mentioned, our early examinations. That's so important, even in our work with homeless people. The early exams are so important and the work with blood sugar, with diabetes and certainly with HIV and AIDS and the universal diet. I also always applaud you for having hiring out here on the sidewalk when you recruit and making applications available for those in the community who 184 3/28/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114, ETC. would like to be corrections officers. Do you have a high turnover? COMMISSIONER KING: I don't know -- I don't think of whether we have a high turnover, but we do have to 7 people, I think, a month that leave. So 8 one of the -- sometimes they go to the 9 Sheriff, sometimes the Police, sometimes 10 they go to Florida. 11

12 They're always begging to go to the 13 Sheriff. COMMISSIONER KING: But we've gotten permission from the Personnel Director to go to a full-time recruiting and testing procedure now, because it's become problematic for us. So we're going to be recruiting now all the time for social workers, COs, maintenance people, everybody. So when that's ready to go, we'll be letting all the Councilpeople know, because we want to speed up the processing of applicants.

Thank 185 3/28/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114, ETC. you for the job that you're doing, and I notice they have -- we have a reentry facility in my area, and we try to do our part. Of course, now, Madam President, in addition to Youth Study Center, they want to give me Family Court, too. So they have decided that we get it all. And I'm okay, as long as our people will accept it. We get a little kickback. It's always not what you do, but how you do it. But we certainly are committed to doing our part to certainly help in this area. Thank you. COMMISSIONER KING: Thank you.

Thank you, Madam President.

You're welcome. The Chair recognizes Councilman Savage.

Good afternoon, Commissioner. 186 3/28/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114, ETC. COMMISSIONER KING: Good afternoon.

You mentioned that there are currently 7,516 permanent beds, but the average population is 8,780 inmates. What happens to the excess? COMMISSIONER KING: The permanent beds are the beds that were originally designed for the facilities that are under our control. The excess people go into those temporary and emergency beds that I told you about that are spread out through the various facilities or are contracted in Monmouth County or Lehigh County or CEC or 600 University or the various other places.

How does the cost per day of housing a prisoner compare to the cost per day of other types of monitoring, either electronic or through the Probation and Parole Department? COMMISSIONER KING: They're all 187 3/28/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114, ETC. cheaper than what we do. As I understand it, electronic monitoring -- and maybe the Budget Director can correct me -- it's $15, $18 a day to monitor someone on an electronic monitor. Most of the other -- if you think about alternatives to incarceration, most of them are -- this is the most expensive way to do it, as far as I'm concerned.

All right. Thank you.

Commissioner, I just have one more question. Looking at your budget, the Prison health services will be costing approximately $44,000,591, and I think that includes the admissions, I assume, the admission examinations. I still cannot understand why we are not lobbying the state and federal government for some of this money. Do you know if the Administration is doing that? COMMISSIONER KING: As I understand it, we are. I don't know -- 188 3/28/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114, ETC. she doesn't know, but as I -- the Budget Director tells me that they're going to be meeting with the state about this imminently and that the Governor does have his new healthcare plan that he's trying to get so that everybody has healthcare coverage. I mean, I hear you and I agree that it's kind of ridiculous --

That we should be paying. COMMISSIONER KING: -- that the City should be paying, especially when a lot of these folks, they come in, we give them a medical exam, they leave after a week and then they go home and then, you know...

And I assume that even if they have medical care like Keystone, since they are not being examined, for instance, by a doctor who is under the Keystone plan, then we pay for it. COMMISSIONER KING: Well, I 189 3/28/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114, ETC. mean, that, again, is -- they're going to be meeting with the state on that, and that's something -- in the last two months, we've hired a new Director for our medical and mental health services, someone who comes from the state, who worked with Blue Cross and Blue Shield and Pennsylvania Hospital and knows these things. One of the things we're doing is hiring -- we're going to be entering into negotiations with two of those Blue Cross and somebody else who submitted proposals to deal with utilization management and getting good rates at hospitals, and I'm sure that's one of the things that he could sort of discuss as to whether or not we could get reimbursed, especially if there are people who get arrested who have private coverage. And I don't know if there's specific rules on that, but --

Well, I mean, we've been discussing this for years. COMMISSIONER KING: You're 190 3/28/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114, ETC. absolutely correct.

And I think that we've got to get very serious about it and start, as I said, lobbying, and I think that the state and the federal government have to put in their fair share in this. COMMISSIONER KING: If you --

We could be doing a lot more with $44 million. COMMISSIONER KING: I agree with you, and if you think about prisons in general, the state and the federal government should be doing a lot more, because it's the state, for example, that says, If you're arrested for X, you should go to county prison for XYZ, and they never bother to appropriate any money for me or any of the other county jails in this Commonwealth to build more space or to have more programs. They think it's a bottomless pit that you just throw prisoners into and don't provide us 191 3/28/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114, ETC. with the resources as a result of their dictates that they come down with.

Commissioner, I thank you. I think you're doing a great job. And, Ms. Reed, I am asking you please to follow through with the Administration also with this issue about the medical. I think that something has to be done. Thank you. The Chair recognizes Councilman Greenlee.

Thank you, Madam President. Just one last question, Commissioner, sort of a follow-up on the Liberty Management facility at Lehigh Avenue. Are they under the same mandate to have the basic services that are provided at the Prison, the kind of stuff we talked about before, the anger management, the recreation, that kind of thing? 192 3/28/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114, ETC. COMMISSIONER KING: They are required to have programming there. I can call Ms. Duzinski up here. She can tell you what specifically it is, yes, but they're required to have programming there as well.

Is there a contract or something you could send to the Council President, kind of show what they have to provide, the cost of it, that kind of thing? COMMISSIONER KING: Yes.

Okay. I appreciate if that could be provided. Thank you, Commissioner.

I'm sorry. We're just trying to figure out a way here that we could deal with this medical issue, and Mr. McPherson is saying if the detainees particularly were under public assistance, isn't there a strong possibility that we could be reimbursed? COMMISSIONER KING: That's the 193 3/28/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114, ETC. whole conversation that has been going on with the state, and as I understand it, it's a matter of the state's interpretation of federal regulations. That's what I remember, but I will make sure that I talk to Ms. Steiker again and I'll actually have Dr. Herdman, our Director of Behavioral and Medical, look into this and see -- reevaluate it and make sure that I pass it along.

Can you get back to us with what the issues are, please? COMMISSIONER KING: Sure.

Thank you. I think it's time that we got this rolling. Councilman Rizzo.

Thank you, Madam President. Commissioner, if you could please give a report on an issue that's been, I think, important to both of us. And, as you know, I had a conversation 194 3/28/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114, ETC. with the Administration, and they appeared interested in what I think -- and I think you believe -- is a worthy effort to put some of the inmates that are already processed for the work release program to work in Fairmount Park and possibly some other facilities. I know I spoke with the Chief of Staff, and she indicated that she was going to try to figure out a way to find the money in the budget to employ. If you could explain -- sometimes we in this government assume that everybody listening here understands what we're talking about. So if you could explain the program and explain the concept of what we're trying to accomplish. COMMISSIONER KING: Well, the program is one that came about as a suggestion of Councilman Rizzo wherein the Fairmount Park and the Prison System would cooperate to provide jobs for some of the people in our work release program 195 3/28/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114, ETC. who are in work release but nevertheless didn't have any employment. So we sat down and came up with a plan where Fairmount Park would train and employ some of our inmates in an effort to, one, help with their backlog in the park and, two, make the inmates employment ready so that when they left the custody and control of the Philadelphia Prisons, we would be able to get them jobs doing that sort of thing for a private company. So we have the program ready to go. I know the last go-around, we just had to tweak it to make sure that everybody in the City was on the same page, that the plan was to encourage people who contract with the City to hire these ex-offenders. So we're ready to go on that. I'm just waiting word for the money to come and we're up and running. I think it's a really, really good idea, and I know from my tours around the 600 University, Councilman, that the inmates heard about this long 196 3/28/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114, ETC. ago and there are people down there ready to sign up for it. So I think we're imminently ready to go.

Well, it's good, because fortunately the unions have bought in and indicated that this is a good way to train people, and it is a training program. I've already talked to a couple of those subcontractors that are very interested in reviewing some of the performances of these inmates that are programmed for work release to see if when they leave incarceration if they could employ them. So there's been a very positive program there. And my colleague, Councilman Goode, has legislation that will give employers a tax credit of, I believe it's, $5,000. So that is a significant incentive. The sad part of the situation is that even though you've employed many of the inmates, that there is a population there that when you did mention it -- but I think it's 197 3/28/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114, ETC. significant. I believe it's over 50, maybe 80 men and women that could leave the facility in the morning and come back in the evening if they only had a job. And that's why the Fairmount Park Commission is waiting to take the first six once the funding is approved to pay them a minimum wage. And I don't mean a minimum wage based on the minimum wage, but I think it's eight to ten dollars an hour. And also the Zoo is looking at employing some of these folks, because there's a tremendous amount of maintenance work that's needed. They have a backlog also, so they are interested, because your folks are available hours, whatever shift is 19 available, to come work. And the sad 20 part, again, is the fact that we have 21 this population that has gone through the 22 process that has been approved to work in 23 that type of an environment, but there's 24 no opportunity. So I think we as a government 198 3/28/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114, ETC. need to create that environment and make these jobs available. And I commend the unions for their support. This isn't perceived as taking anyone's job away. I think the program is a good one. And I don't know if the Budget Director knows if there's been any money. We're talking about just a hundred thousand dollars, I believe, to get the program rolling. And I don't think we need the whole hundred thousand dollars right out of the gate either to get the project going. And you said something to me that made me really want to stick with this and not give up on it, that the inmates that come back are the ones that don't have a job. COMMISSIONER KING: Most of the time, yes. That's a big problem.

And if we can have them leave the jail with a few bucks in their pocket and some possibilities of employment, especially if they have a skill, maybe we'll never 199 3/28/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114, ETC. see them again. COMMISSIONER KING: Correct. And that's what we should do, in addition to hiring a thousand police. That's just my off-the-record comment.

We're talking, Commissioner, about a very small amount of money so you can launch this program. And I would appreciate the Budget Director getting back to the Chair -- and the Chair would obviously get it back to me -- on where we are with finding the funding, this minimum amount of money. Once I see the program working, I then will even go, as I promised, to the private sector, but I'm not about to go out and ask the private sector to support a program through the fund for Philadelphia that isn't adopted by the Administration. I know you're ready to go the minute you get the word. COMMISSIONER KING: Right. 200 3/28/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114, ETC.

Thank you. COMMISSIONER KING: Again, this is important. We're going to be working with the Zoo. Actually, your idea sort of started things and I know we've started conversations with the Water Department, because they have problems recruiting for some of their entry-level positions, and we're trying to work with them to get an apprenticeship training program going at the Prison so the Water Department can get people who take the Civil Service exam and they're there to get a job with good benefits.

Exactly. You know, everyone seems to assume that as soon as a person has that word "jail" associated with their life, that they're not employable. They are. There's certain jobs -- if we wanted to try to get some of them employed at the Airport, I can understand in that environment that there may be restrictions that the FAA and Homeland Security have, but the Water 201 3/28/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114, ETC. Department is a whole different ball game, especially if there are people that just made a mistake that got them into some trouble. So I would love to hear back before this budget process is over that we found the money to launch this program to put this 80 people that are sitting there that now have the word and they're starting to squirm, I assume, because they want to go work, learn a trade so they can post for a job someplace. Thanks, Commissioner. And, again, I want to mimic what President Verna said. You have created a great environment at that place. I think the people that work with you, there's a lot of pride, and I'm proud to say I know you folks and work with you. COMMISSIONER KING: Thank you, Councilman.

Thanks. Thanks, Madam President.

202 3/28/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114, ETC. You're welcome. Are there any other questions or comments from members of the Committee? The Chair recognizes Councilwoman Miller.

Thank you, Madam President. Good afternoon, Commissioner. COMMISSIONER KING: Good afternoon.

I just want to put on record my concerns about the Jobs Project ending because of the Hendrick funds being -- I guess they've all been spent. COMMISSIONER KING: Well, I think I just signed another contract with Impact Services and the Prison Society, and their money is going to run out, I think, in the end of the fiscal year.

It runs out in June, doesn't it? COMMISSIONER KING: Yeah, the 203 3/28/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114, ETC. end of this fiscal year.

So the contract you signed is just until June? COMMISSIONER KING: Yeah.

Okay. I've been contacted by both of those groups. And since recidivism is one of the major causes of your population expanding, they actually are saying that they have successfully had about a 12 percent recidivism rate versus the more 13 than 70 percent. Seventy percent is 14 correct, isn't it? 15 COMMISSIONER KING: Our 16 recidivism rate -- this is a whole 17 complicated thing, but 56 percent the last time we did it was our recidivism rate. So that means -- I like to emphasize the positive. So it means 44 percent don't come back, but 56 percent do. But that is a dated number. It's three or four years old, and that's another reason I'm trying to get the AXIOM system up and going. 204 3/28/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114, ETC.

And you said the AXIOM system. I was wondering, is that system going to actually work or take a look at each individual inmate? COMMISSIONER KING: I mean, all their records are in that. It's in conjunction with DSS Cares, but all the records are there. And what we're going to be able to do a little better is evaluate programs like the Jobs Project and Options to see exactly whether they're doing what we intend them to do. Now, we have some records on the Jobs Project because we had people keeping track manually, but that's part of what we're going to do, going to have all the inmate information there so that we can be better at making decisions about how to spend money.

So when you describe your program as a population management program, that really just means putting all the data together in one place? 205 3/28/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114, ETC. COMMISSIONER KING: Well, you gather it -- you gather it in what's called a data warehouse.

A data warehouse? COMMISSIONER KING: Right. In other words, we have Lock and Track that has a lot of information about inmates. We have other things that we're using to track stuff. The data warehouse brings it all together, and then you can ask it questions and you can slice it and you can dice it and make some judgments about what's going on at the Prison and what's good, what's bad and where we need to improve.

Okay. So that's what this whole system is about, then? COMMISSIONER KING: Yes.

When do you think it will be operable? COMMISSIONER KING: Well, we're going to be initially in six to eight 206 3/28/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114, ETC. weeks, I believe, ready to start using it.

But anyway, if the Jobs Project is a successful project, then I want to advocate for its continued funding. And how much is that? COMMISSIONER KING: Well, I've got the figures here. We spent so far FY05 -- '04, '05, '06 and '07 all together $963,000. So that's for four years. That's four years start-up, all that thing, just for those two contracted agencies, and it's just for one facility. So I think the FY -- the fiscal year amount of money for each of those agencies for FY07, it's 146 for one and 134 for the other.

So it's about $280,000 for one year? COMMISSIONER KING: For one year at one jail.

All right. And maybe once you get this 207 3/28/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114, ETC. system up, before the year is out you can really evaluate and assess whether it's a good project that should hang around, correct? COMMISSIONER KING: Right. Well, I have preliminary information that tells me some good stuff, but I need to -- I got one report. I'm sending it back with more questions. It looks promising. There have been at least 152 inmates that I know that found jobs through this program. So it shows promise.

And so far -- COMMISSIONER KING: But I haven't reached a final conclusion.

So far, how is the reentry -- what are the outcomes for the Reentry Office in terms of employment? COMMISSIONER KING: The Mayor's Office of Reentry? I don't know. They don't report to me, so I'm not sure. I 208 3/28/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114, ETC. know it's open and I know they're offering services, but I don't have the specifics of how it's working.

All right. Thank you. Thank you, Madam President.

You're welcome. Are there any other questions or comments from members of the Committee? (No response.)

Commissioner, again, thank you very much. COMMISSIONER KING: Thank you, Madam President.

You do a great job. COMMISSIONER KING: Thanks. MR. McPHERSON: The next department is the Records Department. (Pause.)

Good afternoon, Commissioner. You've been 209 3/28/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114, ETC. extremely patient, and I thank you. Please identify yourself for the record. And may I say I have looked at your testimony. It's pages and pages long. We will give a copy of that to the stenographer. It will be transcribed in its complete form and I would ask you to simply abbreviate your testimony. COMMISSIONER DECKER: Sure. I'd be happy to. My name is Joan Decker. I'm the Records Commissioner in the City and I have with me today Jeanne Reedy, Administrative Services Director, Dave Werbo and also Diana Perry and Anita Banks. And just very briefly, I'd like to acknowledge Diana and Anita. They both are in the units that are the face of the public. They deal with a lot of activity every day. They are very efficient in supervising their units. We'd just like to give them some public recognition for their work on behalf of our department this past year. 210 3/28/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114, ETC. For FY08, the Records Department is requesting a General Fund Operating Budget of $8,041,306, a net decrease of $13,547 from the Department's '07 estimated obligations, and this level reflects changes in the following areas: Class 100 declines from $3,667,831 to $3,658,731 for FY08, a net decrease of 9,100, which reflects a reduction in lump sum payments. Position level decreases from 77 to 76 full-time staff positions. We're able to support this due to phased-in implementation of automation and technology. Class 200 increases from the '07 level of $3,755,425 to $4,016,013. This level of funding supports continuous improvement in service delivery to the public and is funded through the Department of Records fee increases which were implemented in Fiscal Years '03, '04 and '05. In FY08, Class 300 decreases by $157,735 to $81,245, and Class 400 211 3/28/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114, ETC. equipment allocation decreases by $177,265. Class 500 decreases from an '07 allocation of $2,456 to $1,456 in '08, and Class 800 is budgeted at $283,861 and reflects a partial payment of the Department's Productivity Bank loan. I'd be happy to answer any questions.

Thank you. The Chair recognizes Councilman Greenlee.

Thank you, Madam President. Good afternoon, Commissioner. COMMISSIONER DECKER: Good afternoon.