Thank you.
chair we have 30 attendees you can proceed as you wish thank you good morning everyone my name
is bill bergman and i will be chairing this morning's eba hearings with me is our board
member, Cheryl L. Gaston. Present Mr. Chairman. Our board member, Tanetta Graham.
Chairman. Our board member, Michael Johns. Present Mr. Chairman. And our board member,
Ty O'Wynn. Ty should be on very shortly. Also here is our attorney, Hilly Emerson,
and also Kathleen Grady, our deputy director for planning and zone.
Here's our virtual format.
The proceedings are being recorded.
With your participation, you agree to be recorded.
The video will be available by contacting ZBA Executive Director at phil.gov.
For our court stenographer, we ask attorneys and witnesses to identify themselves before testifying.
If you're participating by phone, press star 9 to raise your hand and star 6 to unmute.
To enter an appearance statement, call 267-270-5548.
Leave your email address and the address of the property in question.
And finally, the question box on the screen is not for testimony.
All comments and testimony should be directed to Catherine Grady, our Deputy Director.
Here's our virtual. Let's look at our schedule for today.
Number one, MI 2023-007-273-2136 West Erie Avenue. That case is continued.
Number three, MI 2024, 000056, 1329 Levick Street.
This case has been rescheduled to Wednesday, October 30th at 930.
And number 18.
18. MI 2024-002-922-2123-25 Clearfield Street. This case has been continued. Are there any
other requests for continuance? Good morning, Mr. Chair. This is Jason Hand. I will be your
co-host for today. Good morning, Jason. I have a hand up from Mr. Vern Anastasio. He's been
allowed to speak. Good morning, Mr. Chair. Vern, could you please state your name and spell for
the court stenographer? Yes, sir. It's Vern Anastasio, V-E-R-N, last name A-N-A-S-T-A-S-I-O.
You swear or affirm to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth?
Yes, sir. What case are you interested in, sir?
I've got a couple, sir.
4219 Main Street.
On behalf of my client, Nikita Peterson, I'm asking for a continuance.
We are in discussions with the RCO, and we're…
What number is that, Hillary?
I see it.
Number nine.
So number nine, MI 2024, 002-521-42119 Main Street.
That case is continued.
Thank you.
And the other one.
Just one more.
2228 South 12th Street.
The applicant, Mr. Justin Bonner, recently hired my firm to take over the case.
And we do need to still meet with the RCO.
that's number five Mr. Chair
okay that's 2228 South 12th Street am I correct that's correct so
2228 South 12th Street, am I correct?
That's correct.
So MI 2024-000-374-2228 South 12th Street, that case should continue.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Any other requests for continuance?
Yes, sir.
I have a Tony Neng with their hand raised.
I have allowed them to speak.
sir your your case is going to be voted on today yeah yes that's what i say okay so you you don't
you don't have to be on your case will be voted on very shortly okay thanks all right thank you
any other continuities
i don't see any further hands at this time so i have a few cases without exhibits
Exhibits number four, MI 2024, 000059, 1933, North 24th Street.
This is the second listing.
No one appeared the first time.
We do not have exhibits.
Keystone Property, LLC, is the listed owner.
Dwyer and Wood, LLC, DBA are the contractors.
No hands raised for this matter, Mr. Chair.
So number four, MI 2024, 000059, 1933 North 24th Street.
This is the second listing, no exhibits, no one appeared the first time.
I vote to dismiss.
Michael Johns, my vote is to dismiss.
Cheryl Gaston, my vote is to dismiss.
Senator Graham, my vote is to dismiss.
I owe him my business to dismiss.
So, Hillary, number seven, we have an interpreter for that, and we have no exhibits. Am I correct?
That is correct, Mr. Chair.
So, number seven, MI 2024, 001188, 4220 Holmesburg Avenue.
We have an interpreter.
Please, could the interpreter please come forward?
Franklin Castillo is the listed applicant.
Could we do have with you the interpreter swearing in?
I can, excuse me, I can get that for you, Mr. Chair.
Interpreter, please.
Steve, last name beginning in A, could you please?
Hello, my name is Steven, and I'll be your Spanish interpreter.
Could you please state your name and spell it for the court stenographer?
Yes, my name is Steven, S-T-E-V-E-N, and last name Aubain, A-U-B-A-I-N, interpreter ID.
One minute, we'll have your swearing in.
sorry sir takes so long
um sorry mr chair um the then excuse me the oath is if uh to swear and affirm to faithfully
interpret um spanish into english and english into spanish i do
Thank you very much
Franklin
We want to call now Franklin Castillo
Who is the listed applicant
Así que si Franklin Castillo
Puede presentarse
No hands have been raised
For this matter sir
No hands
No sir
This is the third listing
So interpreter, please read MI 2024-001-188-4220-Holmesburg Avenue.
Third listing, I vote to dismiss.
Could you please read that for us?
Asi que MI 2024-001-188-4220-Holmesburg Avenida
hemos votado para despedir el caso.
with johns my vote is to dismiss
cheryl gaston my vote is to dismiss
tenetta graham my vote is to dismiss
iowen my vote is to dismiss
interpreter thank you very much thank you for using the service
excuse me mr chair um mr robin can you just indicate that this case has been in has been
dismissed by the board
Este caso ha sido despedido por la junta.
Este caso ha sido despedido por la Junta.
Thank you.
Do you require for the interpretation?
No, but thank you very much.
Thank you.
We're going to go to our add-on list.
So MI 2024-002-709-4511 Sampson Street, I vote no.
Charles, my vote is no.
Cheryl Gaston, my vote is no.
Tanetta Graham, my vote is no.
Taya Nguyen, my vote is no.
Number two, MI 2024, 003-175-6709 Essington Avenue.
We're going to continue this.
Am I correct, Hillary?
Yes, that's going to be continued for one week.
we need further clarification. Thank you. We will vote on this case October 2nd at 9.30 a.m.
Now we're going to go here. We're going to go to our regular list. Number two. Oh, no,
July 2024, 002-893-1815 South 17th Street.
We do have an interpreter scheduled for this.
Interpreter, if you're in the audience, please raise your virtual hand.
we're seeking the vietnamese interpreter we are
again the vietnamese interpreter could you please raise your virtual hand
no hands raised mr chair we've received confirmation board uh myself and miss emerson
and the zba um but they're not raising their hand and we don't have a contact name
we'll continue this um let's just see if the see if the applicants
are here sure the et noggin and naga din
they have been allowed to speak
i could you please state your name and spell for the court stenographer
could you spell your name please
hi um my name is mitchell m-i-t-c-h-e-l-l uh i can be the translator for them no we can't we
we can't we have to have one we have to have a court can we push this to the end chair and then
i can uh contact sure why don't we do that yeah okay thank you very much they move to number number
Number 12, MI 2024-002-622-10916, Nandina Lane, Amin Safav is the owner applicant.
good morning chair good morning board members hi um are you hamas are you the owner sir correct
I'm Hamza.
Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth, the whole truth, nothing but the truth?
Could you please spell your name for the court stenographer?
Hamza Ayada.
H-A-M-Z-A-A-Y-A-Y-D-A-H.
The application is for the elimination of one.
Sorry, excuse me, Mr. Chair.
um we have the property owner for this case listed as ameen safaiv yep yeah that's that's
We have the property owner for this case listed as Amin Safaib.
the property owner you i don't i don't have you listed as the property owner correct i'm the
applicant hansa so sir while you completed the application you're not considered the the
applicant this is not your property the property owner is the one that needs to make the presentation
um okay i can let him uh join um you can if you can share the screen for him and show the exhibits
if you'd like but he has to do the testifying only an attorney can represent somebody before
the board oh okay can he can we you know have some time so i can bring him in person
um yes we can move this one to the end as well yep all right all right thank you thank you number 14.
mi 2024 002796 3063 north 26th street kenneth key and gifty key
they'll be rejoining as a panel shortly
they've been about to speak
Good morning. This is Kenneth Key, the owner. How is everyone?
Good morning. Hi, could you please state your name and spell for the court stenographer?
Yes, my name is Kenneth Key, K-E-N-N-E-T-H-K-E-Y.
You swear or affirm to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth?
Could you please put your video on?
Excuse me, Mr. Chair. I would have to promote him to a panelist before he can be allowed to show us a video. I'm sorry about that, Mr. Kea.
That's okay. That's fine. Thank you, Jason.
All right.
And now my video.
Good morning. Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth, the whole truth, nothing but the truth?
Yes, I do.
So this application is for use as a two-family household living in an existing structure.
Two-family household living is prohibited in the RSA 5 zoning district, but you do have unanimous support from Community Action Group.
Okay, but please start your show your screen, show your documents and start your presentation.
okay let me um let me share my screen real quick yep should be a green button on the bottom there
green button on the bottom you know what i'm enlarging looking for oh green button on the
bottom i see it and i'm going to share i'm going to hit share desktop yeah yeah you're good you're
good it's coming up all right so i'm just going to close out this and i'm going to close out my
application i'm going to start off with um first please tell me if you can see my screen
you see your screen okay great now these documents that i'm going to be presenting
um have already been submitted we have your documents great so you can move through them
quickly great well you have the documents um you know the address and you understand what i'm
trying to do well um i'm not gonna take up a lot of your time with uh explain going over the
documents again i'll just um you know briefly i show you a few pictures of the property
and ask any questions, answer any questions that you may have, you know,
after reviewing the property.
I think we lost him.
I will see if I can not get him back.
all right mr key will probably have to rejoin because he's not on the virtual audience list
okay at this time
Mr. Key?
Mr. Key?
Still has not turned up, sir.
he still hasn't turned back up again
why don't we do this
let's move on to number 16
and then we'll hear those
three pro says at the end
so number 16
MI 2024
002 869
608 North Galloway Street
number D
Mikal Gold Markle and Stacey
Hopster are the owner applicants
Wow, I'm sorry.
I thank you all for staying on.
Can you hear me now?
I'm going to call you in a couple of minutes, okay?
So I'll bring you back one in a couple of minutes, okay?
I just called another case.
Okay, that's okay.
No, no, that's okay.
You're going to have to go out and then come back in, okay?
I'll call you right in hopefully 10 minutes.
We see Markle or Harpster.
I missed. They've been promoted.
Good morning. I'm here.
Good morning.
Good morning.
Could you please state your name and spell for the court stenographer?
Sure. It's pronounced Micah Old Markel.
And that's spelled M-I-C-A-H.
Last name G-O-L-D hypen M-A-R-K-E-L.
All right.
You swear or affirm to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth.
I approve.
This application is for the installation of a roof-mounted solar array on a canopy structure as part of an existing single-family dwelling.
Solar collector support structures shall not exceed nine feet in height above the surface of the roof
unless the total height of the building, including the solar collector,
does not exceed the maximum height permitted in the RSA 5, which is 38 feet, whereas the proposed
height of the solar collector support exceeds nine feet and the total height of the building,
including the solar collector, exceeds 38 feet. You do have a letter of support from the Northern
Liberties Neighbors Association. Could you please start your presentation? Sure. Thank you, Board
chair and members of the board i appreciate your time this morning um as you can see i'm installing
solar pergola above could you could you could you show that please you why don't you share your
screen you got it is there any way to cut the noise in the back or you're you're sitting somewhere
i'm sorry i'm actually across the street from the zoning board i i went to be in person this morning
and found out i was on zoom so i apologize for the noise in the background
You have a share to your screen. Okay. Yes, I'm sharing it. Give me 1.
Okay, can you hear me?
I can.
Okay, can you see the photo on my screen?
Okay, so the reason we're going for the variants, as you can see, there are two pilot houses.
The structure that we're proposing will go between the two pilot houses, and since it
contains solar energy collectors, the shading, as you can see on the right pilot house there,
would shade or obstruct the solar collectors if they were below the level
or obstruct the solar collectors if they were below the level of the pilot house and thus we
want to build them above this also allows us to set back the solar structure so that it is not
visible from the street and it causes the least disturbance to our neighbors as they
see it less as a result of the structure being hidden between the two pilot houses
i'm happy to take any questions well do you have drawings to show us yes i do let me pull those
Can you see the drawings on my screen now?
I think maybe you want to try to enlarge it a little bit so we get a sense.
Is that better?
So this is a side view of what the solar array will look like.
You see the pilot house is sort of the rectangular object.
It's 10-7 to the lower end, 12-11 to the upper end.
So it's slightly tilting south.
that's to increase the production of the solar and also to shed water
from the structure on the lower end so that it can be captured properly
how many panels do you put up are you putting up
i believe the total is one two three five it's 12 panels and you can see the structure in this
drawing there's four feet that go down to the roof deck there's a trust system below the panels and
the panels sit on top of the rails on top of that trust system okay so leave your um and and could
you tell us what happened when you went to the northern liberties neighbors association and what
was the vote uh i believe i was not personally present for the vote um as they vote in uh in
secret uh however they immediately told me that there they approved it there were several of my
near neighbors who came to support the project okay this does not affect any of the near neighbors
all right good all right so leave your drawings up questions from the board
so so how far does this sit back from the from the front uh it's i believe about 10 feet back
from the front of the house and this is a three-story structure already with pilot house
how how much higher than the uh 38 feet is it
i think you have it in that section section or the other drawing that you should
so it shows the building height of 40 feet and a structure height that at the back end extends to
12 foot 11 above okay so so the so the structure already was was above the 38
that's correct as are all of the surrounding buildings right yep i got you it's in a very
densely um built area right okay thank you other questions or comments from the board
yeah i have a question about how many other sort of structures at that height are on this block
all of these houses contain the same pilot house configuration as this house
um none of them yet have uh pergolas or anything extending above the pilot house
and then in terms of maintenance for snow load like how are you going to be handling water
because now you're building something that's also reliant on a neighbor's
pilot house for structure to be very clear it is not relying on a neighbor's house for structure
It is landing completely on my roof for structure.
There will be no shedding of water or snow onto a neighbor's roof.
It all happens directly onto my roof.
There is no extending of the solar over a neighbor's roof either.
And I have support of all of the near neighbors on the east and west side of me for this project.
So the handling of snow will shed directly onto the floor.
So the handling of snow will shed directly onto the front of the roof deck. Additionally, gutters will bring the water down to the roof deck, which will then clear the water through the existing gutters.
Thank you.
Questions or comments from our attorney, Hillary Emerson.
Not at this time, Mr. Chair questions or comments from the virtual audience.
yes mr chair i have a hand up from breonna wakefield i have allowed them to speak
morning could you please state your name and spell for the stenographer
oh wait i'm sorry they put their hand down okay all right any other hands i have a hand up from
conwin crossley i've allowed them to speak good morning could you please state your name and spell
for the stenographer. Good morning. My name is Conlon Crosley, C-O-N-L-A-N, Crosley, C-R-O-S-L-E-Y.
Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth, the whole truth, nothing but the truth?
Yes, sir, I do. Are you a neighbor? No, sir. Okay, please proceed. I'm with Councilman Young's
office, and we'd like to voice our position of non-opposition for this project. Thank you very
much mr crossley for calling in we appreciate it um anyone else in the virtual audience
no further hand at this time mr chair hi planning commission
good morning everybody amy boyd for the planning commission amy boyd
we're referring to tell the truth the whole truth nothing but the truth
i do please proceed the comprehensive plan recommends no change in zoning at this
location from the existing residential single-family RSA 5. The proposed solar panels
contribute to our citywide vision, particularly recommendations 7.1.2 and 5.1.1. 7.1.2 states
reduce overall per capita greenhouse gas emissions by 45 percent by 2035. 5.1.1 states reduce
electric, gas, and water consumption to reduce the financial and environmental costs. Additionally,
there are unique physical conditions and circumstances of the property that would prevent the solar
collectors from being installed in conformance with the zoning code and it would not injure
the use of nearby properties. The Planning Commission recommends that the board grant
the requested variance for solar collector height. Thank you. MI 2024-002-869-608 North
Galloway Street, number D, I vote yes. Michael Johns, my vote is yes.
Iowen, my vote is yes.
Tanada Graham, my vote is yes.
Thank you, sir. You have your votes.
I appreciate it. Thank you, everyone. Have a great day.
Number 14, MI 2024, 002-796-3063 North 26th Street, Kenneth Key.
Good morning again.
Good morning. Mr. Key, you've already been sworn. Just for the record, state your name again.
Kenneth Key.
could you please continue with your presentation yes thank you again and and uh please accept my
my sincere apologies for my technical difficulties i am going to start um with just a few photos
since photos um speak volumes in terms of um what i'm trying to do so this if you can see the
property is 3063 North 26th Street. I would like to confirm with you. Can you see my screen and
the property? I can. I can. Yep. So I'm requesting that the property be zoned as a two-family unit
and I purchased it in 2022. It's been a, from what I, from the research that I've done,
It's been used as a two-family unit for over 60 years illegally, and I'm seeking to get this done the right way.
With your support, the property has already been separated into two units.
You see the front entrance, and you see street parking.
It doesn't seem like it will be affected.
it. This is a photo of elementary school directly across the street. And another view of the
property on the left and the school on the right. And this is a side view of the second
floor entrance to the second floor apartment. And again, another front side view.
And, again, another front side view, entrance into the first floor apartment.
And this is the rear of the apartment.
The red door is the street side entrance to the second floor apartment.
The rear door near the punching bag is the back door to the first floor apartment.
And you see the meters, the electric meters, and notice two electric meters has already been subdivided, you know, it's been subdivided for years.
The electric, the water heaters, and so forth.
These are just some photos from across the street in the school's parking lot, so you can get a larger view of what the neighborhood looks like.
and that is pretty much it so i'll gladly take any questions what do you have in the basement
uh nothing the basement is unfinished it is not going to be an apartment in the basement
is the um you know two water heaters for the first and second for both apartments
you have photos of the inside of the property at all i do
now give me a minute because i did send some over um let's see here this is this
all right yeah i'm this is the um first second floor bathroom
is this uh we we still see we're still in the parking lot across the street
You're still in the parking lot. All right. Hold on. That's not good.
Hold on. Hold on. Hold on.
All right. So I'm going to have to exit and get out of this.
can you see this kitchen the photo of the kitchen now to you yes we see you sir oh no that's not
good let well let me let me share screens again please forgive my technical difficulties there
we go all right share all right now do you see the picture of the kitchen now yep
all right so i'm gonna have to floor uh this is yes the second floor kitchen and
i'm gonna minimize that and show you
do you see the um do you see the kitchen you see the bathroom kitchen we see the kitchen
You're still in the kitchen.
All right.
You know what?
Hold on.
This is the first floor kitchen.
You just saw the second floor kitchen.
Are you seeing this with the black stove?
We see a website now, like with all your...
oh that's not good information on it all right you see a website with all my information now
you still see the website with all my and you don't see it we do we do you see the bathroom
no no we don't sir all right um you know i i do if you if i could bring your attention to the um
The photos that I that I sent in the exhibit, I did send I did email photos to do you see my view, my view.
Let me stop here because. I'm sorry now. So I want to. Go ahead.
Yeah, I'm sorry. I did email photos of the inside as part of my exhibit package.
All right. All right. Thank you. Questions from the board.
i'd really like to see inside pictures if we can okay all right yeah hold on
then give me a minute let me let me uh let me see if i can't do this again
and i'm going to go back to my desktop i'm going to share this and now um so mr key you're sharing
your like file folder so like when you keep sharing it what we see is your file list
because you're sharing finder and not the application that shows the photos itself
Okay, so let me stop that share and go back to, oops, I'm just going to see if I can share my screen name, desktop, share my desktop here.
okay so let me stop that share
now you see my desktop right yes so now I'm just going to open up this folder this valve
do you still see my desktop we can see your finder where you are now do you see any of these
okay okay good so it's going to take a half second because and I'm just going to open up
slowly but surely now do you see this bathroom right here we do yes okay good all right so
now i'm gonna close this out and unfortunately i have to do this um a slow and tedious way
and i'm gonna here and this is the first floor kitchen can you see that we do okay good we
already saw the second floor you already saw the second floor this is the first floor kitchen
okay now i'm going to um slowly but surely what is this this is the uh this is the second this
is a picture of a second floor bedroom so close that out and again slowly but surely
this uh another picture of a bedroom on the second floor apartment so this is a two-bedroom
apartment yes and this is the first floor hallway
and again please forgive the tediousness of this um what is this this is i think you saw this one
already the first floor bathroom and i'll just keep on going down the line
i'm not sure what this one is but i know it's a second floor master bedroom
is there anything uh in particular that that's that you're looking for or i haven't seen any
photos of a living room i've seen two kitchens and no living rooms okay
this is the uh first floor um dining slash like living area or you could use it however they want
on the first floor so the gray floors are the first floor and the brown floor is the second floor
and i'm sorry sir you want to see what again
living room i'm sorry living living space living room living room you saw yeah we saw
bedrooms and kitchens and you just showed what could be used as either living or dining room
on the first floor so yes all right so those two rooms on the second floor let's go here
this is the second floor right so this this is not the main bedroom in the um
on the second floor on the second floor lead this leads out to the hallway and down this hallway here
is it leads you to the master master bedroom on the um on that floor and if there's a door here
in this corner and in the lower right i'm not sure if you can see my ex or not that that um
leads to the kitchen.
Where's the living room?
I've been asking for a living room.
Well, see, that could be
used as a living room
or the...
You know what? Let me pull up the
floor plan. That would be a better description.
That would be good.
Yeah. All right. Floor plan.
And that is...
That's also in the... Here you go.
There we go.
Can you see this?
Yes. Perfect. Now, this should answer all your questions.
You know, you started with that.
You would have been good if you started with that. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry.
That's OK. This is my first time doing this. This is much better.
Much better. I'm not sure. I'm just trying to figure it out.
So enlarge it or anything. No, no, no. That's fine for me.
that's fine for me you've got a kitchen you've got a that's that's good for me room and two
bedrooms and you've got two bedrooms and you've got a living room and a kitchen on both floors so
I feel like I told you Joel I'm sorry all right so any other questions from the board
I feel like I told you, Joel. I'm sorry.
All right. So any other questions from the board?
The only other question is there was, I'm sorry, that I have is on one of your photo of the rear, there was a service wire.
It appeared to be coming out of the meter in the rear yard, going across the bottom of the steps and down the side of the building.
Have you addressed that issue?
Service wire. I think that's like cable, cable TV.
Looks like it was going to the meter, Bob, to the meter.
Hold on, let me go back to it then.
I'm not sure what I'm talking about.
What are you referring to?
All right.
Oh, on the outside photos.
Okay, so hold on.
Bear with me.
Can you see my photos, please?
Yeah, but we need the rear.
Can you see where I'm flipping through?
It looks like it's coming from the meter, from the electric.
No, no, no.
That's a cable wire.
That's cable TV.
Yeah, that's a white cable TV.
It's going, yeah.
Yeah, right there.
No, that's, no.
Yeah, that was a bad install on cable TV.
They should have did better.
That was the.
Yeah, that still looks like a hazard.
but all right thank you. Mr. you have a few questions one um does the who has access to the
basement? Well I'm this it's a locked door so only the first floor would have access but I'm
not gonna you know there's there's an entry point in the first floor apartment not the second floor
to the basement. And then is there an entrance to the basement that can be accessed from the
outside i'm assuming as like are you your property managing this yes the only basement is this right
here um from the outside yeah okay so right now none of none of the rental tenants will have
access to the basement no i wasn't gonna i was i was thinking about maybe letting the first floor
tenant have access to the basement to store stuff down there
but that would be just like
more of a headache for me if I did that
so it is an option though
and then my second question
is where are all of the
meters for the second floor unit
like where's their gas meter
where's their electrical panel
where's their hot water heater
I think it was electric heat I thought I saw electric heat in there
yeah uh so the electric panel you mean the electric panel for the first floor
no for the second floor for the second floor is on the second floor it's on the second floor yes
and the first floor is in the basement and then where is the hot water heaters uh both of them
are in the basement both of them are in the basement i think my my concern is that as a
person that's lived in a duplex in philadelphia is that oftentimes if there's a maintenance issue
if like there's a lot of reasons when things are in the basement typically when you have a duplex
if you're going to try to split things you try to keep all of the mechanics centralized so that if
they need to be serviced by pico or if they need to be serviced by the water department you know
the tenant can be there and like do that without having to have a third party come on site um and
I think my only my main comment to you is that this is from a management standpoint you've made
this difficult for for tenants to kind of self-service any of their mechanical needs in the
unit okay they can they do second floor has access to their um electric panel first floor has but not
the hot water heater so like if the pilot light is that right so there's like a number of things
that could happen in a house that now
the tenants don't
have the ability to sort of address
quickly in an
emergency
I don't have an issue with that
having
managed property
I don't have an issue with that
601-50
any other questions from the board
questions or comments from our
attorney
um excuse me mr chair not on not on this case um but i do ask that we um return to number 17 next
because we do have the vietnamese interpreter available thank you questions or comments from
the virtual audience yes chair i have a hand up from a number ending in three five five
Yes, Chair. I have a hand up from a number ending in 3552. I have allowed them to speak.
Could you please state your name and spell for the court stenographer?
Yes, this is Adrienne Fernandez, Swamp Little Neighborhood Process Association, RCO.
Adrienne, just for the record, spell your name for the stenographer.
okay um adrianne and my last name is spelled f-e-r-n-a-n-d-e-z do you swear or affirm to
tell the truth the whole truth nothing but the truth yes please proceed okay um just wanted to
request five provisos to our support for 3063 north 26th street and the first one
is requesting a limit of two units and the second one is no basement living. The third one is to
trash and recycle and be stored in the rear of the property. The fourth one is no rooftop deck
because we've been having problems with illegal rooftop decks. Swampoodle and Community Action
Group that we've had to spend a lot of extra time on with L&I in this vicinity. And the last
provides a request is
that a certificate of occupancy
be required
because this is a legalization.
Anything else, Adrian?
That's everything.
Thank you.
Any other questions or comments
from the virtual audience?
I do not see any further
the parents, Mr. Chair. Planning Commission.
Amy Boyd with the Planning Commission.
The comprehensive plan recommends no change to zoning
at this location from the existing residential single-family RSA 5.
The appellate has demonstrated that there are unique physical conditions or
circumstances of the property that would prevent it from being used in performance of the zoning
code. Planning Commission recommends that the board grant the requested
variance for two-family household living.
Hillary, how do we
have trash stored in the rear, two units only.
Is there anything else that's enforceable?
You could require a certificate of occupancy.
Okay, thank you.
MI 2024-002-796
3063 North 26th Street. I vote
Yes. With proviso. Trash stored in rear. Certificate occupancy needed. Two units only.
Michael Johns. Yes. With provisos.
Cheryl Gaston. Yes. With provisos.
Tanetta Graham. Yes. With provisos.
Iowan. Yes. With provisos.
Thank you. Thank you, sir. You have your votes.
Thank you. Have a good day.
All right. Number 17, MI 2024, 002-893, 1815 South 17th Street.
Viet Nguyen and Nga Dinh, and we have a Vietnamese interpreter.
Could the interpreter please come on?
you see the interpreter this is not the interpreter chair this is john kelly the court
reporter i apologize for the interruption i had a crash on my computer i have been offline uh i got
back on by phone during the last hearing and um after the proceedings when i i'll have a chance
to get my computer back up i'd like to get the link so that i can uh complete the record uh
from the time that I was off
and I apologize.
Okay, thank you.
Interpreter, please raise your virtual hand
and wait to be sworn in.
We did have the interpreter, Mr. Chair.
Okay, okay.
Who's the 717 number?
That's Mr. Kelly, Mr. Chair.
The interpreter is Mai Nguyen.
Let's see them.
We'll have to come back to this case again, Mr. Chair.
We'll keep an eye out for the interpreter.
Why don't we start with the regular list, okay?
Number two, MI 2023-007-280-1384 Narragonset Street.
Darlene Treat is the attorney.
They're coming back in as a panelist.
Good afternoon, Commissioner Darlene Freed on behalf of the applicants.
Could you spell your name, please, just for the record?
Atunson Thomas, H-R-E-A-T-T.
I don't know why my video isn't on.
Were you a firm to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth?
Yes, I did.
We're going to need your video.
Yeah, I'm just saying.
Yeah, good.
So there's a letter of opposition from Safe Faith CDC and a letter of opposition from Councilperson Bass.
And you also have approximately 41 residents who have signed a petition.
Do you stipulate to the reading of the referral and its accuracy?
Why don't you please start your presentation?
I'm going to share my screen.
Good morning, Commissioners. I am Darlene Threatt. I'm here representing Mr. William
Campbell and Mr. Freeman Camper. I've submitted a package of exhibits. Can you see my screen,
sir? I'm just going to list the exhibits. I'm not going to go through them all. We have the
refusal, a tax clearance, a lease, property information, plans, pictures, community letter,
as well as proof of mailing and petitions. In my original submission, I submitted three
petitions. After that submission, and I updated it with the submission to the board, I submitted
them nine other um petitions uh from the community our commissioners my clients are b-boy bistro
they operate a food truck currently at stenton and narragansett a b-boy bistro would like to
move into a brick and mortar building at 1384 east narragansett i would note that this is a
referral and not a refuse at this time they would like to open up a restaurant
somebody's on the line
okay sorry council please proceed oh um they would like to open up a brick and mortar building at
1384 narragansett avenue they would like to have a take out restaurant there
commissioners here are is a copy of the tax clearance for that property
here's a copy of the commercial lease for that property
and commissioner here's a copy of the plans uh for the uh building uh this first page here
is just a site plan and it shows that this is a uh building on the corner of narragansett
and Stanton. There's a side entrance to the building here, which is actually on Narragansett
Street, and the building goes the length of Stanton here. I'm going to flip down to the,
there's also an exit at the far right-hand corner, as well as an entry at the far left-hand corner
on Narragansett. This exit here is on Stanton, and this is just kind of like a picture window there.
I'm going to scroll down a little further to the actual plans for the building.
I'm going to scroll down a little further to the actual plans for the building.
I'm going to enlarge them a little bit so we can see them a little better.
I'm just going to make it really big.
Basically, commissioners, we would like to have a takeout operation here.
You would enter the restaurant through the corner at Narragansett.
We have counter space along here.
we have a bathroom in the back we have some freezers this is an exit to the basement and
this would be an exit out to narragonset we do have the use of the basement according to the
lease and this is for storage only and we would also store our trash in the basement here until
trash day back behind the counter here of course it's not installed yet but this is where we would
put all of our cooking equipment, if approved by the board, up here is just the waiting area
for the patrons to wait for their takeout food. At this point in time, we did not have a
thought to use it as a sit-down restaurant, only a takeout restaurant. I'm going to show you some
pictures now. Here is the actual property. This is Stenton Avenue, the long length of the property.
the corner and the opening here is on Narragansett and this is where we posted the property on both
sides. I took some other photographs to just give you a general look of the area. Actually on Stenton
Street there it is a commercial area with a lot of traffic. A commissioner's next door on the other
side down on Stenton Avenue is a lot and I'm going to show you a picture of the lot. This is a lot in
question and there's been a lot of back and forth with this lot. And I think this is where most of
the problems with the community came. I'm going to put my clients on in the end, but my clients
are going to testify that they were under the impression that this was the landlord's lot and
that they were under the impression that they could use that lot according to him. They will
also testify that it's the landlord who fenced in the area and it's also the landlord who paid
this area, but my client will testify more to that. That's just a general area. That's across
the street on Stanton Avenue. There's a deli on the corner here. This is Narragansett Street.
That's across the street from the property. Across the street is a McDonald's,
and then there's a gas station. It's a highly traveled commercial area.
this is a picture of the actual food truck b-boy bistro that's located on stenton avenue now
my clients would like to get rid of the food truck and move into the brick and mortar building
which would probably alleviate some of the complaints outlined in the two or three letters
of opposition. This is the interior of the property currently. If approved, my clients
will come in and sit it out for their commercial takeout restaurant. I would like to say that this
restaurant is a seafood restaurant uh with fresh food uh daily fresh food brought in daily they
would like to operate from wednesday to sunday uh 11 p.m excuse me 11 a.m to 8 p.m they currently
and these are just other pictures of the inside of the space basically is for you to see
bathroom that's located in there. This is the current food truck that they've been operating
out of on Stanton Avenue. It's my understanding that they've been operating this food truck for
about a year. It's also my understanding that they have had some problems with L&I,
mainly that their initial license was not for a mobile food truck. It was just for a regular food
truck. It's my understanding that they applied for the license at L&I. They explained what they
were doing in this truck, and L&I gave them an improper license. Thereafter, my clients did go
back to L&I after learning that they had the improper license, and they did receive the proper
license for the mobile food truck, which I'll show you in a minute. These are just other pictures to
you how busy it is on that corner at Stanton and Narragansett. That's looking down Narragansett.
And this is a large picture of the truck. It's a fairly large truck on that corner, a b-boy bistro.
B-Boy Bistro.
Commissioners, here's the letters that I sent out to the community for the meeting.
I also hand delivered the flyers for this particular case to make sure that we could get a sufficient turnout and that everybody got the notice in a timely fashion.
I understand the mail is not that great in that neighborhood.
And here is a copy of the proof of mailing.
A commissioner's, I originally submitted three petitions with about 42 signatures thereafter.
I'm sorry, here's the license.
They did finally get the mobile food vending unit food service license.
Again, originally they did have the wrong vending license for that truck, but when they found out that they had the wrong license, they went in and got the proper license.
and I've also attached some additional petitions and all in all commissioners I would say we have
167 signatures on these petitions and if you look at the petitions closely there are varied
addresses on it but there are substantial amount of addresses from Narragansett and from Rittenhouse
and those are all our neighbors of the excuse me they all live in the vicinity of the food truck
as it's operating now uh commissioners i'd like to call my uh client mr william campbell for a
little testimony commissioner can you hear me yeah i can sure please please call can you raise your
hand please they have been allowed to speak good morning sir could you please state your name and
spell for the court stenographer yes my name is william campbell first name william w-i-l-l-i-a-m
campbell c-a-m-p-b-e-l-l or firm to tell the truth the whole truth nothing but the truth
Please proceed, counsel.
Mr. Campbell, do you currently operate a food truck named B-Boy Bistro at Stanton in Narragansett?
Yes, I do.
And how long have you been operating that truck?
It's been a year.
And January 17th was our first year, so just a little over a year.
And Mr. Campbell, when you when you originally started the food truck, is it correct that it was placed on 1985 Narragansett 1385?
Excuse me. I'm sorry. 1385 Narragansett. Yes. Rittenhouse. Sorry. Rittenhouse.
And Mr. Narragansett, who is the owner of 1384 Narragansett?
His name is Earl Ross. And did you have a conversation with Mr. Ross about 1385 Narragansett?
Yes. And Mr. Ross, excuse me, Mr. Campbell, 1385 Narragansett was paved and fenced in.
And was that done at the direction of Mr. Ross? Yes. And it was your understanding originally,
Mr. Ross owned that lot of 1385 East Narragansett? I'm sorry, correction. That's the lot that's on
1385 Rittenhouse, the building of Narragansett. So you referring to Rittenhouse? Yes, we were
under the impression that he was the owner of the lot. Yes. And you had operated your food truck
on that lot? Correct. And once you found out that he didn't own that property, did you remove the
food truck yes uh it took about a few months for us to try to figure it out um unfortunately i
didn't know in which way he was representing our our business apart from him being the owner of
the property and the so-called owner of the lot uh he kind of left a little bad taste in people
miles at the city council office and uh we just really want to express that yeah we had no
recollection of him not owning that lot so once ellen i did come out uh and they tried to figure
everything out once we they figured you know once they found out that we didn't own the lot
what that he didn't own a lot they told us that we would have to remove ourselves and we did so
immediately and uh mr campbell what did you do after you found out that you had the wrong
vending license for that truck uh so when ellen i came out and uh did some uh observing uh we were
told that we had the wrong license which was funny because we was like two months away from
having to renew the license so we never knew you know in those what 10 months uh that we had the
you know in those what 10 months uh that we had the wrong license so once she told us
wrong license. So once she told her
uh i forget the lady name but she worked for elanon she told us being that we were coming up
on um having to renew it she told us i can't hear him can you can you hear me
counsel can you hear me hold on counsel are you are you there
you're coming in and out darlene yeah it froze i think we're okay now i say my internet connection
is unstable today and it has been shaky mr campbell can you hear me yes i can can you
finish that once you found out that you had the incorrect license what did you do uh once she
told us to just wait until the license expired which was just a little under a month away and
once it expired, we renewed it and got the right license. Okay. Mr. Campbell, can you explain to
the board what type of food do you sell? So mostly we sell seafood. It's mostly pescatarian,
but we do offer some meat options as far as chicken and beef options as well. But we do
like rice bowls. It's from teriyaki, salmon fried rice to fried lobster sandwiches. A lot of things
that you would probably find in like a fine dining restaurant, but on wheels and more accessible and
local. And Mr. Campbell, how many persons do you employ currently? Seven. And can you tell us
whether or not your cooks or your employees certified in any way? So me and my partner,
which owns the business, we are certified serve safe. And we do have our leading cook,
which is also certified and serve safe that runs the truck.
Our commissioners, right now, that's all I have.
Questions from the board?
Questions or comments from our attorney, Hillary Amberson?
um miss three excuse me we had requested but did not yet receive a um executed lease
for your client miss emerson i did submit an executed lease i uploaded it uh when did you do
that maybe monday all right i will i will check again and i'll send you a copy right now okay
because we don't the copy we have on file is not signed so okay and let me just go down to
my package i think i substituted the executed lease on my package
yeah i'll send it to you um oh here it is there it is okay thank you so much
Can I hear what the RCO said again? What was the RCO's vote?
Nine opposed, one in support.
Letter of opposition, Faith CDC.
And can you speak to any of the opposition for the project?
I know you have petitions from the neighbors, but was there anything that stood out for the RCO's rejection?
of the plan? Yes, Ms. Graham, I did speak to Ms. Love, to be honest with you, in great detail.
And it seems that there was a problem with that truck parking there. It caused lines on the
corner, which interfered with the bus stop. And people were double parking to get to that truck.
But I would submit to you at this time that if, in fact, the business is allowed to move inside
to a brick and mortar structure, those problems that were created by the truck wouldn't be there
anymore. There wouldn't be any lines interfering with the bus stop. And there would be no parking
near or outside the truck. And frankly, we are requesting a referral here. And this property
is commercially zoned and is zoned for this type of use. The reason we're in front of the board is
because we like a takeout component to it, but we are asking to use this building in the way it was
designed to be used for commercial purposes. I would also submit that if it was a sit-down
restaurant, the parking situation would be increased. People would be in the neighborhood
a little longer, but since it is a takeout restaurant and it's fairly large, as you can
see from the plans, they can hold all their customers inside. Plus, the customers will have
a shorter time span in that area as opposed to if we were also asking for a sit-down restaurant.
And is the operator of the restaurant willing to work with the restaurant?
And is the operator of the restaurant willing to work with the community to, you know, address any other concerns if transferring from the truck to the restaurant?
They're definitely willing to work with the community.
Actually, I had canvassed that community myself when I was hired to take over this case.
And basically, most of the people in the community had good things to say about the truck.
The only thing that they said that was bad to me anyway is that the prices were too high.
But my clients and Mr. Freeman Camper is on the line also.
They're more than willing to work with the community.
They really want to try to have a more upscale restaurant in this location, you know, not the regular fast food, greasy, takeout Chinese stuff.
And they're trying to bring something to the community that's a little different, and it's a little healthier option for the community.
And I'm sure Mr. Campbell or Mr. Campbell are willing to answer any questions that you have, Ms. Graham, in that regard.
So my last question is, so if the restaurant is open, the food truck will no longer be parked at or near this location?
That's correct.
The food truck would be gone, but I will have to tell you that the food truck is in operation.
They're a very popular food truck in the city.
As a matter of fact, tonight the food truck would be in Point Breeze at Kenyatta Johnson's Night Watch Community Affair.
So they drive around.
They're community-oriented.
They started off a little shaky.
I have to say it's not really all their fault.
They got some misinformation.
it appears to me though once they got the misinformation that they really made an effort
to um correct um the things that they did that were displeasing or um so at the time when the
food truck is not in use it because this looks it sounds to me like they'll still have the food
truck but they won't be parking it at this location anymore it will not be even when it's
not in use like even when say if they're not using it for an event they're not going to store
the food truck at this location that they had where they had the restaurant that is correct
and uh mr campbell are you still on the line yes i am can you speak to that please yes we already
have storage uh for our food truck we actually uh right reserved the food store i'm sorry the
storage for the food truck uh months ago just to be safe whenever we couldn't have the truck in
that area that we would have somewhere to store it so we already do plan on moving the truck right
away uh it's on ivy hill road it's a storage place for the food truck that we already had reserved
so so did i hear that the community wanted a sit-down restaurant is that what
was one of the issues i i didn't really say that i don't want to really be misleading
i want to say that we did circulate petitions um there are about 10 or 12 of them there are 167
signatures now a lot of those signatures are not from uh rittenhouse in narragansett but a lot of
the signatures are. So there is community support for the opening of that takeout restaurant there
on the corner. All right. My question is about the food truck. And again, maybe I don't remember
everything I showed about this, but it used to be that the food trucks that are like parked on the
street or operating on the sidewalks had to be attached to a food commissary, which is monitored
by the health department. So are we doing something different with this because this is
this mobile truck or how how does this i i hear a lot i've heard a lot about how lni is involved in
the uh initial licensing but um i thought that trucks like this had to be also under the
jurisdiction of the health department so can you speak to that please yes we have we have a
commissary kitchen that's at Jamaican
D's that we use for our commissary
if that's what you're
yes it's like a block and a half
away from where we operate
if that's what you're talking about the preparation
of the food and everything yes
like that it's in a food
commissary that has to be
and that's under the jurisdiction
of the health department
yes we submitted that with
all our new licensing because that's
what we had to have to receive
our updated information so we have that as well, yes.
Okay, so what is this talk about this other place
where you're storing this truck, I'm sorry.
So that's the place that we're trying to get into.
So that's the place that we're trying to get into.
Okay, and is that another?
And is that another food commissary?
So how are you going to, well, okay.
It doesn't necessarily have to do with what's going on here, but.
The truck will no longer be in use.
The truck will no longer be in use.
And then we will enter into the building.
Once we enter into the building, we will no longer need a commissary kitchen.
So when board member Graham asked before if you were going to continue to use the truck after you, if you got permission for the restaurant, I thought you said that you were still going to use it.
Oh, yeah.
So the plan is we want to really get established into the building first, get everything going smooth there.
And then the plan is maybe sometime in the spring, I will put a team together to operate events, you know, once the weather get nice again, because we're about to come in the wintertime.
So the truck can be put up while we get everything going at the store smooth, and then we'll work on operating the truck for events, and then we'll still use the commissary that we use.
So we'll make sure that we have that information for the commissary for the truck, because we do do a nice amount of business, so we're probably not going to have the room to clash the two.
So we'll be using that same commissary for the truck, but the truck will be put up until then.
and how many seats are you going to have in this restaurant uh so so there's no seats because it's
a takeout so we we're not going to have no seats we want to get people in and out so that we're not
creating a lot of traffic a lot of dwelling traffic you know we uh we also offer online
services for pickups so people could be right in and out we also offer you know delivery driver
services as well so it'll be a take take out so they get in and out no sitting okay but
they still will be waiting for orders oh yeah well we we have a we have a uh we have a waiting
area where they can order and also wait for their orders okay which we which we can offer some
seating just to you know cater to especially older you know clients uh customers that need
a seat and stuff so we we can accommodate those things so i'm just i'm working towards the whole
idea of congestion in the street so these folks who are waiting for this food they're not going to be
outside otherwise causing any kind of disturbance within the neighborhood no okay all right thank
you no problem questions or comments from the virtual audience um yes mr chair i have
a hand up from charles richardson i've allowed them to speak
morning mr richardson good morning mr chair charles richardson r-i-c-h-a-r-d-s-o-n
officer councilwoman cindy bass room 508 city hall you swear or affirm to tell the truth the
whole truth and nothing but the truth i certainly do please proceed sir i assume that uh you folks
received the letter of opposition from the councilwoman and also the rationale letter
that I wrote as well.
You know, there's a lot of misinformation going on here.
I spoke to Mr. Ross, the owner of the property, last Monday, and he indicated at the time,
number one, that there was not an executed lease at that point.
He also mentioned the fact that he was the one that was actually responsible for paving
over the lot, but he also said that Mr. Camper and Mr. Campbell were the ones that fenced the lot.
So they actually didn't, you know, had some idea of what they were doing.
I received a petition from Ms. Threat this morning, and I thank you for that.
There are 132 households that are designated as near neighbors by the City Planning Commission.
of those 132, there are 107 households located on Narragansett and Rittenhouse Streets,
which are the closest streets. There are 76 households on Narragansett Street and 31 on
Rittenhouse Street. The applicants circulated petitions within the last couple of days and
obtained signatures from individuals residing in 36 of those 107 households, and that's only 33%,
A little over a third of the 107 near-neighbor households, and that's from both Darragansett and Rittenhouse Streets.
Unfortunately, the applicants have been doing things wrong from the very beginning, from illegally occupying a city-owned lot, and even after being told that they were on a city-owned lot, they had established an illegal connection to PICO, and they received numerous violations from L&I.
their every action thereafter has been reactive as opposed to learning what they needed to do to
Their every action thereafter has been reactive as opposed to learning what they needed to do to operate a legal business.
Even when informed that they could not remain at that location, they have continued to maneuver and do everything within their power to disobey the city,
including public property, the land bank, and the Philadelphia Police Department,
who told them that they can't park at the location where they currently are parked and vending as well.
The petition submitted representing only 36 of the 107 nearest neighbor households do not negate 18 complaints that we received from those two blocks since they began their operations, citing such things as traffic and congestion, customer parking, which will still be a problem in that community, no matter whether they move the truck or not, because the people still have to park somewhere in order to, you know, to partake of their, and they're very popular.
I'm going to give them that. They are very popular, but they also are causing problems
with boarding septal buses and things along those lines. I myself observed, after a constituent
called us, extension cords stretching from the windows of the subject property across the
sidewalk and into the food trailer. While understanding that Mr. Campbell has a very
large following, this case does hinge on location, location, location. And while they desire to stay
at this location, this is not the right location for this type of business. The councilwoman
request that you deny the request the other questions or comments from the virtual audience
i do not see any further hands mr chair planning commission
amy void for the planning commission the comprehensive plan recommends
no change to the commercial mixed use zoning at this location
the appellant has demonstrated that the proposed use will not cause detrimental impacts to the
neighborhood beyond what would reasonably be expected. Therefore, the Planning Commission
recommends that the board plans to request a special exception for a takeout restaurant.
Commissioner, if I may make a closing statement. You can. Thank you. Commissioners,
I respect what the councilwoman wrote and Mr. Richardson's position. My clients didn't have
100% clean hands and everything. They did get some misinformation. When they learned about what they
were doing wrong, they did make a good effort to try to correct it. I think most of the problems
that the community may have complained about will be solved when they move the restaurant inside.
That area and that building was designed for the type of use that we are requesting.
And if, in fact, you are leaning on the side of maybe giving them an opportunity, I would suggest that you give them a temporary use permit.
If the problems persist, if they're bad neighbors, bad businessmen, bad actors, when we come to the board the next time, you can deny it.
But in the city of Philadelphia, business growth, business opportunity is wanted.
They're going from a truck to a whole store.
They're providing different kind of food, food that's needed in our neighborhoods.
They're very, very popular.
And I would like you to just give them an opportunity to be good business persons.
And you can give them a limited opportunity if you're hesitant about it.
And thank you very much for your time today.
Can I ask a question?
Just one quick question.
Have they considered or had any conversations around doing a community benefits agreement?
with talking to the council
one or two?
No one, and that wasn't
considered, but we have no objection
to it. We want to be in the community.
We want to work with the community.
We'd be open
to a community benefits agreement
if they were open
to letting us
operate.
One quick point.
The council person's office
you know talked about traffic being a problem double parking in the past wouldn't that be the
same once this opens um well the truck would be gone and uh that is a street there and there would
be additional parking if that truck wasn't on that corner but to say uh traffic or congestion
wouldn't be a problem at all would be misleading but i would also say a commissioner it's kind of
unfair to put the congestion of the community and the parking problems in Philadelphia on
individual businesses. That location is designed for commercial use, and we're asking for commercial
use. So what we're going to do is we're going to hold this to the next week to vote. I'll sit and
talk to the other board members about where we stand with this, okay? Thank you very much for
your time today, Commissioner. Next Wednesday at 930. Thank you.
Hilary D, how do you make it up with the interpreter?
hello ed how do you make up with the interpreter
The interpreter is back, Mr. Chair.
Why don't we, what's that number again?
This number is 17.
My 2024-002-893-1815 South 17th Street.
Interpreter, please.
Hi, this is your Vietnamese interpreter.
My name is me, M for Mary, Y for Yankee, and my ID number is Y for Yankee, Q for Quebec, 068, and I am ready.
Hillary, could you please swear in?
Excuse me.
Do you swear in a firm to faithfully translate Vietnamese into English and English into Vietnamese?
Yes, I swear.
Thank you.
Yet no them and Nanga then please the owners they've been promoted to panelists and they're present.
See here.
I'm going to.
Could could you please help me swear them in interpreter?
All right.
Do you swear or affirm?
To tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth.
Dạ vâng, thưa quý vị, quý vị có thể và tuyên thệ rằng là mình sẽ chỉ nói sự thật và không có gì khác ngoài sự thật trong buổi ngày hôm nay không ạ?
Dạ có.
Yes, we swear.
And so, here's...
Mr. Chair, interpreter, can you just please ask them to state their names for the record so we know who is here?
Thank you.
Dạ vâng.
Phiền ông bà hãy nói tên họ của mình nhé, từng người một ạ, để chúng tôi có thể ghi lại thông tin.
Tên là không?
V-I-E-T
N-G-U-I-E-N
Mình nói tên là được rồi ạ?
Việt Nguyễn
Việt Nguyễn Nga Đinh
Yes, so my name is Việt Nguyễn, V-I-E-T-N-G-U-I-E-N, and Nga Đinh, N-G-A-D-I-N-H.
So, this application is for the erection of a one-story rear addition to an existing two-story structure.
Dạ vâng, hiện tại là mình đang nộ cái hồ sơ để được cân nhắc, đúng không ạ?
Là để từ cái nhà một tầng thành nhà hai tầng, phải không ạ?
The maximum occupied area in RM1 zoning district is 75%, whereas this is 81%.
This is your interpreter speaking.
I'm sorry, can I have you repeat?
Because he was saying something in the middle.
The maximum occupied area in RM1 zoning district is 75%, whereas 81% is proposed.
Dạ vâng, hiện tại thì cái diện tích được tối đa sử dụng hay là diện tích được tối đa chiếm dụng nghe ạ
Ở cái khu vực đấy ạ, nó sẽ là 75%
Mà trong cái lời đề nghị của mình thì hiện tại nó đang ở mức khoảng độ 81% ạ
And the required rear yard depth in the RM1 zoning district is 9 feet
Whereas 7 feet 2 inches is proposed
7 feet 2 inches
Dạ vâng, và cái khu vực sân thì là được 9 feet
Còn hiện tại là mình đang có yêu cầu là 7 feet 2 inch
Đúng không ạ?
And then finally, a letter of support from the East Point Breeze neighbors has been issued
could they please share their screen and start their presentation
Dạ vâng. Vậy thì bây giờ phiền ông bà là hãy chia sẻ màn hình và sau đó là bắt đầu diễn diễn thuyết ạ.
Okay, it's only nine.
hold on this is the this is the they want to build out in the rear am i correct
yeah yes correct okay tell them to continue
Yeah, so the reason for our proposal is
because we also live or we also have our parents with us so our parent would like to extend the
area to build the rear area so that they can you know use the area for their personal purpose like
showering or just personal hygiene and it just gives them some more space
So they're going to put a bathroom back there
Is that what we're saying
Vâng, theo như tôi hiểu là
Thì nếu mình xây như vậy là mình sẽ xây thêm cái phòng tắm ở đằng sau đó đúng không ạ
Dạ, đúng ạ
Yes, that is correct
Tell them to continue with their presentation
Vâng, mình tiếp tục đi ạ
How about photos of what it looks like
Yes, and my parents, you know, the senior people are also sick.
Okay, why don't we do this?
Could you please show me photos of the existing property?
Dạ vâng, hay là bây giờ mình như này.
Bây giờ mình hãy cho tôi xem những cái bức hình của cái hiện trạng nhà tại thời điểm này ạ.
That's the front. Go slow.
Vâng, mình đi từ từ thôi nhé.
Đấy là phần phía trước này.
That's the front of the property.
Vâng, đây là từ từ.
That's the posting.
That's the posting.
And this is the rear, right?
Đây là chỗ đằng sau đúng không ạ?
Have they already started the work?
Mình đã bắt đầu xây dựng chưa nhỉ?
Mình đã bắt đầu làm cái gì ở đấy chưa ạ?
Yeah, có.
Yes, we did.
So they started the work and now and I stopped them.
dạ vâng tức là mình đã bắt đầu
và sau đấy là mình bị dừng lại à
bị dừng lại rồi tháo ra nạ rồi
yeah so we started
and then we got stopped
and then we also took
things out
we removed certain things
if you looked at it
to the side of their property
that house was already built out on the first floor
dạ vâng
I think everything has remained the same, no construction yet so far.
No, no, what I'm saying, they're trying to build out to be consistent with the property next door is.
Tức là ý tôi đang nói là hiện tại mình đang muốn sửa
Thì cái ý của mình sửa
Tức là sau khi sửa nhà xong
Thì cái khu vực đấy
Cái diện tích đấy nó vẫn sẽ
Tương ứng với cả cái nhà bên cạnh đúng không?
Tức là mình không có lấn ra ngoài đúng không?
Tức là mình chỉ xong cái khuôn phép thôi đúng không ạ?
Dạ, dạ
Oh yeah, right
Questions from the board
Is there a rendering or sharp drawing
of the proposed
edition?
That would be my opinion too.
Could you see
they showed before how they
want to draw the
drawings there. Show the drawings.
that was a site plan though
but yeah
that's
I'm aware
have any other drawings besides that
No comments from the board.
Vâng, không biết là quý tòa có bình luận gì không ạ? Mình hãy đợi nhé.
And just confirm, so this 3 foot 2 addition or 8 foot 7 addition will align with the property next door's addition. Is that correct?
Dạ vâng, tôi muốn xác nhận rằng là cái kích thước trên cái bản vẽ này thì nó sẽ gọi là song song với cả cái kích thước của cái ngôi nhà bên cạnh, đúng không ạ?
All right, thank you.
Questions or comments from our attorney?
Not at this time, Mr. Chair.
There are comments from the virtual audience.
I do not see any hands, Mr. Chair.
Planning Commission.
Amy Boyd with the Planning Commission.
The comprehensive plan recommends the changing and zoning at this location from the existing residential multifamily R1 to residential single-family RSA5.
The few results would be consistent under the recommended zoning.
The requested variance for occupied area is diminished.
The proposed addition is consistent with the adjacent neighbor and will not ensure the use of that property.
Therefore, the Planning Commission recommends that the Board grant the requested variance for occupied area and for rear yard setback.
MI 2024-002-893-1815 South 17th Street, I vote yes.
Michael Johns, my vote is yes.
Cheryl Gaston, my vote is yes.
Taya Nguyen, my vote is yes.
Tanetta Graham, my vote is yes.
Interpreter, thank you and please tell them
that they have their votes.
Thưa ông bà, quý tòa đã đưa ra quyết định
cho cái lời đề nghị của mình
và tất cả chúng tôi đều đồng thuận
với cả cái yêu cầu xin sửa chữa của mình ạ.
Dạ, em cảm ơn chị và cảm ơn tòa phiên tòa rất nhiều.
Yeah, thank you all the judges so much.
Interpreter, thank you so much.
Yeah, thank you so much for using all services.
Interpreter, disconnecting, and have a good one.
Bye-bye.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Bye-bye.
Number six, MI 2024-000750-1343 East Lycoming Street.
Joseph Vaccaro is the attorney.
Letter of support from Juniata Park Civic Association.
they're coming back in as a panelist mr chair
good morning can you see me mr vicario i can sir could you please state your name and spell for
the court stenographer uh good morning may it please the board joseph vicaro v as in victory
a c c a r o on behalf of the applicant antonio de leon mr de leon is sitting uh to my left
in my office um he hardly so do you do you swear or affirm to tell the truth the whole truth and
nothing but the truth yes i do do you stipulate to the reading of the refusals and uh agree with
the accuracy. Yes, I do. Could you please start your screen there and present to start your
presentation? Thank you. Can you see my exhibits? Yes, we do. Okay. Starting with the tax clearance
certificate. I'm going to be as brief as possible so as not to waste the board's time. This is an
application to permit a grocery store at the location. It's the northwest corner of East
Lycoming and Glendale streets in Philadelphia. The grocery store would be located on the first
floor. If you notice the sign on the photographs, this is the old Carol's Flowers, which has been
closed for quite a few years, and the property has been vacant on the first floor since Carol's
Flowers had closed. The property zoned as RSA 5. Carol's Flowers was operated under a variance,
but obviously the variance had expired since the building has been emptied since Carol's
flowers had closed. Moving on down, this is a side view from Glendale Street.
This is a side view from Glendale Street. This is the view from East Lycoming, looking north. The poster's on the building. I could zoom out a little bit.
the posters on the building the poster inside shots this would be a two aisle grocery store
selling cold food sandwiches uh drinks and other items the store is not currently operating mr
de leon he's just been stocking up the store and getting it ready to be opened uh hopefully with
the we have the community support and we would hope that the zoning board would grant us this
variance to operate and that way he could start operating as soon as possible more shots of the
inside of the store deli case refrigerators this is the back of the area north of lycoming street
The building would end at an alley, and it's Mr. DeLeon's intention to hold the trash and to store the trash in the rear alley so as not to interfere with the sidewalks, either on Glendale Street or on Lycoming.
Another view of the back.
Here's a view from the far side, from the southeast corner, looking towards the store.
This is the north view of Lycoming.
There were some residences on the north side of Lycoming, looking east toward Lycoming.
And this is on the south side of Lycoming, to the immediate block to the east of where the store is.
Other commercial activity.
This is the dental office on the immediately catty corner to the southeast of where the proposed store would be, a view looking toward the west on Lycoming.
We have our letter of support.
Mr. DeLeon is occupying the property pursuant to a lease.
It currently terminates in 2028, I believe.
If I could speed up scrolling down, the notice that I had sent to the near neighbors with proof of mailing, there were a lot of near neighbors, copy of the application with the project information form, the refusal, and the tax clearance certificate.
The building has a 60-foot frontage on East Lycoming Street. It would go 58 feet deep, approximately north on Glendale for approximately 928 square feet of store space.
Mr. DeLeon would also be using the basement for storage of his goods.
The store anticipates operating seven days a week from Monday through Friday from 7 a.m. to 9 p.m.,
Saturdays and Sundays from 8 a.m. to 9 p.m.
He would intend to hire two workers from the neighborhood.
it. Mr. DeLeon, he also has some experience having previously operated a grocery store
by 11th and Rockland. If I could show you some photographs very briefly of the store
that he has previously operated at 11th and Rockland, it was a Wellstock store, and what
he has done at 11th and Rockland, he intends to do at Lycoming, the current store that's
under consideration by the board.
With respect to the other commercial activity in the area on Lycoming, 1345 is a salon.
That is RSA 5, and they've been operating under a variance which was issued in 2011.
1350 Lycoming is the dental office.
1352 is the daycare.
1354 is a temple.
religious services uh 1356 is another grocery store uh 1360 is a is another daycare 1362
is another church 1400 is a cake shop 1363 is a pizza parlor and 14
1400 is a cake shop, 1363 is a pizza parlor, and 1401 is a Chinese restaurant.
The properties from 1350 to 1401, they're all CMX2.
So just like the salon is operating under a variance because they're RSA5, we're requesting
the variance because the building in question is also RSA5.
Like I said, I have Mr. DeLeon who's sitting next to me.
I asked the board to accept my testimony as an officer of the court since he doesn't speak English, but I've explained everything to him in detail.
With that, I asked the board if there are any questions or concerns.
Question is from the board.
Yes. Are you planning to have a sign of some sort?
And what about this sign that was left there on the building from your former floors?
Well, there's no sign included on this application. Obviously, he is going to need a sign. At this point, this application is for the use permit. He obviously does intend to put up a sign in conformity with the code.
If any proposed sign would not be in conformity with the code, then he'll certainly put up an appropriate application for any non-conforming sign.
So does he have any connection with the sign that is there already?
No, no, no.
Other than it being on the property that he's currently leasing.
So it is part of the leased premises?
Yes, yes.
It's part of the leased premises.
But he's obviously not going to be advertising flowers because that's not his business.
Right.
Questions for the board.
Thank you.
So they'll have to apply for a separate zoning for signage?
Yep. If it's non-conforming, yeah.
And it's not conforming. The other thing I noticed in the other site that they have is the number of individual signs on the windows. That tends to be an issue, and I know that that's not the code to code, and we want to just make sure that
that doesn't happen okay understood signs get these signs get plastered all over the cigarette
signs and the other signs get plastered all over the windows which is which is not to code and i
see that all over the city and i don't know who regulates it or who um who's supposed to uh
police that but it's not happening
the questions for the board
questions or comments from our attorney
Hillary Emerson
not at this time Mr. Chair
questions or comments from the virtual audience
I see no hands
planning commission
and we vote with the planning commission
the comprehensive plan
recommends no change to the residential single
family RSA 5 zoning at this location
the proposed use is
consistent with documented prior use for
commercial, and the appellant has demonstrated that there are unique physical conditions or
circumstances that would prevent the property from being used in conformance with the zoning
code. The Planning Commission recommends that the board grant the requested variances
for two principal uses and retail sales of food, beverages, and groceries.
MI 2024-000750-1343 East Lycoming, I vote yes.
Michael Johns, my vote is yes.
Cheryl Gaston, my vote is yes.
Tanetta Graham, my vote is yes.
Thyat Wendt, my vote is yes.
Thank you, Mr. Vaccaro.
Thank you. Have a good day.
All right. All right. Number eight, MI 2024-002519-1232 South Broad Street.
Joseph Consul is the attorney.
A letter of unanimous non-opposition from South Broad Street neighbors.
Mr. Consul, could you please state your name and spell for the court stenographer?
Mr. Consul?
Got me now?
I got you.
Could you please state your name?
Go ahead.
Last name, C-O-N-S-O-L-A.
Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth, the whole truth, nothing but the truth?
Could you identify your client, the relationship to the property?
Yes. I believe we have Michael or Steve, the owner of the property, one of which is with me here today.
I believe we have Michael.
I have Michael and Angeline Young.
Yes. That's all right. Hold on one second.
One second.
Michael Young or Steve Young?
All right.
Thank you.
Do you stipulate to the reading of the refusal and do you agree with the accuracy?
Why don't you start your presentation?
I'm going to share my screen.
Hey, everyone.
We're here on 1232 South Broad Street.
This property is zoned RSA 5. We're here seeking approval for a six dwelling unit. This property, going back to 1985, was approved for four dwelling units and an office space on the first floor.
After that, it was converted by my clients to a dental lab on the first floor with four rental units above.
In 2005, by way of the permit that I'm showing on the screen, it was approved for six dwelling units, and it was converted with the appropriate permits at that time to six dwelling units.
Unfortunately, my clients never pulled rental licenses, and when the property was rezoned as single-family residential, it lost its approvals.
Nothing has changed internally since the conversion occurred approximately 19 years ago, and my clients are seeking approval of this variance to re-approve the use so they can operate legally.
we went in front of uh the south broad street neighborhood association uh we seems like everyone
um you know is in non-opposition again i don't think they do support but it was all non-opposition
everyone understood that this has been operating that way forever it's not a problematic property
and in fact i'll show you the pictures it's a really nice uh there's really nice in the interior
They sent a letter. Here's a proof of mailing, exterior photos, just one of those big properties on Broad Street, and tax clearance certificate.
We also submitted plans showing the layout of the property. Each of the three floors has two one-bedroom units.
Actually, I believe there's a couple of two-bedroom units that exist here as well.
The basement itself is not occupied. It's utilities only.
But obviously, we submitted this because we'll have to get this all legalized and get the CO.
And there's a complete layout that's included in our packet.
We include an affidavit of continuous use.
Again, this is the record showing that it was approved in 2005 for the use that we're seeking.
And then we included some interior photos just showing some of the work that exists in the property.
There was a lot more that we had shown during the RCO meeting.
I believe that the chair is an architect and he seemed pleased with the state of the property
and there's no complaints in that direction as far as we can tell from anyone.
It seems to be a nicely preserved property on South Broad Street.
With that, I'll conclude my presentation and ask my client to raise their virtual hand.
Mr. Young.
Stephen Young has been allowed to speak.
Hello, sir. My name is Stephen Young, son of the owner, Michael and Angeline Young.
They unfortunately could not make it here today. They are abroad.
So I am sitting in for that.
Hillary, we're okay with this, right?
I'm sorry, Mr. Chair, say that again.
We're okay with the son testifying, not the owners.
um generally we do request that the owners testify um is this is the son on the deed to
the property exactly okay it typically we would we would like to hear from the the owner of the
property um mr council have you talked to the owners yeah yeah they're at the rco meeting they
Mr. Consul, have you talked to the owners?
Yeah, they're at the RCO meeting.
They were messaging me yesterday.
That's why I was confused, because there was messages back and forth yesterday about them being unable to appear on Zoom.
And as an officer of the court, I'd be happy to testify.
As an officer of the court, we'll let Mr. Consul say that he's explained this to his clients and said numerous conversations with them.
Am I right, Mr. Consul?
yes absolutely questions from the board
questions or comments from our attorney hillary emerson
not at this time mr chair questions or comments from the virtual audience
i do not see any hands mr chair planning commission
with the planning commission the comprehensive plan recommends a change in zoning at this
location from residential single family rsa5 to commercial mixed use cmx3 proposed unit count
would be allowed by right under the recommended designation additionally the proposed use is
consistent with documented prior use the planning commission recommends that the board grant the
for multifamily household dwelling. Thank you. MI 2024-002-519-1232 South Broad Street, I vote yes.
Michael Johns, my vote is yes. Carl Gaston, my vote is yes. Tanetta Graham, my vote is yes.
Tywin, my vote is yes. Thank you, Mr. Consul. Thank you. Number 10, MI 2024-002-539-2101
101 South 28th Street. Mark Danik is the attorney.
There will be rejoining as a panel, sir.
There we go.
Morning, Mr. Danik. Morning, sir. Could you please state your name and spell for the course
personographer? Sure. Mark Danek, M-A-R-K-D-A-N-E-K. And I'm with a law firm of Obermeyer,
Redmond, Maxwell, and Hipple. You swear or affirm to tell the truth, the whole truth,
nothing but the truth? I do. Could you identify your client, the relationship to the property?
Yeah. My client is Ms. Tanya Krawchuk of Krawkena Architects. She is a church trustee,
as well as a registered architect who will provide some testimony related to the relief
we're seeking today. You stipulate to the reading of the refusal and you agree with its accuracy?
Yeah, we stipulate to the revised refusal dated August 29th, 2024.
And one other question, do you have an RCO letter?
Yes, I do. It's a letter.
Did it just come in?
Yeah, just last night we had the RCO meeting.
Could you make sure that we received a copy of it? And what was what is the what is the are they in favor?
So they voted not in support. They did not provide an explanation. But I can represent to Mr. Chair that during the meeting, there seemed to be a lot of confusion related to an injection site overlay zoning district designation on the revised refusal, where the neighbors seemed to believe that we were trying to put an injection site on the church property.
One other gentleman thought that the city was moving all the, say, the drug users from Kensington into the neighborhood.
And then one or two of the neighbors represented concerns regarding if a property was sold, what would somebody else build on it?
Why don't you start your presentation and try to explain all this to us?
I will share my screen.
you should be seeing an overhead photo of the property this is the church these are the two
residential homes of 2109 and 2111 south 28th this is the church hall property at 27302734
Snyder. This is the vacant lot at 2726 to 2728 Snyder Avenue. The requested relief, now this is
the revised refusal. There are, and I'll show you on the plan and my client will testify to it
further. All we're trying to do is realign the lot lines of the various properties to get rid of all
the encroachments and make sure that the property lines are actually in line with how the properties
the property lines are actually in line with how the properties were built so as a result of those
were built so as a result
changes uh we are running into issues with the percentage of coverage of the building
and also the lot sizes for the two residences um they are existing um become too small and then
the side yards uh for the church hall property which are already existing are under the required
12 foot. And then this is, as I go through these, I also had to seek an amendment of the zoning
application because the city records do not identify 2726 to 2728 Snyder as a piece of
property within the city. We do have deeds showing that it is a proper piece. And for L&I's purposes,
to make sure that everybody had notice that all five pieces of property were part of this zoning
notice, we did an amendment to make sure that everything was done correctly. And as you can see
here on the revised notice, for some reason, the zoning overlay district notice was placed
on the revised notice. And I'll touch on that more when I discuss the neighbors. Here are the
tax clearance certificates. These are the initial ones that expired in May. I do have updated ones
further in the packet. This is our appeal application. This is the addendum letter.
And then this is the letter seeking the correction. Here are my client's deeds. This is a letter from
LNI, which during the review process, they did recognize all five parcels. It's just
on the original notice of refusal, he only listed four parcels because of the computer system.
Now, this is my client's color-coded map.
And as you can see at the bottom here, these are the existing parcels.
So this is the church.
These are the two residences.
This is the church hall, and this is the bacon lot.
What they're seeking to do is realign the lot lines so that more of this property is
part of the church and also this one-story garage is no longer straddling three pieces of property.
They're all existing structures that have been there for decades, I'm guessing, and so they're
not seeking to build anything. We're just seeking to correct problems. The two residences down here,
the big issue with these, if I could scroll over, is that the buildings themselves were actually
built over the property line. I believe it's two foot six inches. So what we're seeking to do is
just basically realign the lot line so that they fall within the party walls. What that means is
the person down here who initially, I guess, built over the property line, they're going to be
picking up two foot six, and then the other parcels will get smaller. And then the, let's see if I
can scroll back. When we make this change here, that's how this results in the two residential
homes being occupying or lot D here occupies 79% of the lot area instead of 75. For the church
hall here, there's existing side yards of 6.9 feet and 5.1 where 12 foot is required. And then
the third variance request that we're seeking is for these two lots. The city code requires a
minimum of 1,440 square feet. However, what we're proposing is 1,049.4 square feet and 965.1 square
of feet and let me go here uh this is the um i downloaded the uh electronic uh neighbor mailing
lists off of the opa website since there were several properties uh what we did is i combined
everything i got rid of all the duplicates and we had one master list that was approximately 138
uh mailing notices um we did have uh a meeting an initial pre-meeting with the rco august 29th
with just the leaders um but we did send out notice so here's the proof of mailing of the
first meeting uh this is the letter showing the virtual meeting at the time it was scheduled we
were unaware that it was only a pre-meeting and not the full meeting um and we did subsequently
have a full meeting last night. And this was the email notice that I sent out. This is the
letter from the zoning board, allowing me to make the amendment to ensure that all five lots were
part of the zoning notice and package. This is my email to LNI asking for their correction in line
This is my email to LNI asking for their correction in line with my letter.
with my.
This is the poster that came out with the contact information that we listed and was posted.
When we got the official notice for the full RCO meeting on September 24th, we did do a second mailing of the notice on September 11th.
Here's the proof of mailing.
And this is the updated letter.
And then these are the project information sheets for, let's see, this is for 2101 South 28th, 2109 South 28th, 2111 South 28th, 2726 to 28 Snyder.
Not sure how, but I was able to get a project information sheet for each of the five properties.
I'm assuming they use different databases. And I do have a set of pictures here showing that
the property was posted August 29th with a notice and the amended refusal.
And then this is my witness list. And then the, hold on.
Okay. And then this are, these are photos taken September 17th showing that the posters
and the notice of refusal were still on the property.
Now, getting back to, if I can here,
the share screen thing is right in the way.
If I can move this.
Oh, I got to pull up the RCO letter again.
I'm sorry.
this is the the letter from the rco um i was on vacation so we just conducted it uh last
evening at 6 30. um the there was about 30 attendants um and as i explained further um you
know most of the questions were geared toward the fact that um they believed that we were trying to
put a injection property at the site because of the zoning overlay district but we did explain
that my client has no intention of putting an injection site on the property and that the
zoning overlay designation actually means that the properties cannot have an injection center on it
another individual expressed concerns about what could happen if any of the parcels were
sold after we do the corrections. And we did explain that anybody that buys it could be within
the RM1 zoning. They could do whatever they wanted with it. I'm not sure where the vote
took place in private. And we just found out that they voted to disagree. So we're not sure of any
specific reasons. And down here, they did not provide any specific rationale for why they voted
know and with that i would like to um have my client um brought on to the meeting to speak
as to the specific relief and i have additional photographs that i want to go through with the
client okay what's your client's name uh it should be tanya krawcheck or krakena architects i'm not
sure what name she has on her zoom um they've been allowed to speak i could you please state
your name and spell for the court stenographer tanya crotchett t-a-n-y-a-k-r-a-w-c-h-u-k
you swear or affirm to tell the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth
i swear please proceed counsel um miss crotchett uh for the record can you just please uh identify
that um your relation to the property owner here i am on the parish council as a trustee
and i am also um an architect that's been trying to help the church um clean up their
mess they've made over the years okay and um miss krawcheck were you present during my presentation
to the the board regarding the various exhibits and documents just now yes okay and um if you
were if you were called and asked each one of the questions and all the answers that I provided
would you testify the same as though would you testify to the same
facts and information as if you were testifying yes okay and with that Mr. Krawchuk I just wanted
to go over with you I have the plan up on the screen which hopefully everybody can see
um can you just please explain the existing conditions and then um what the church's
what the church's intent here with the modifications. And then when we're done with
intent here with the modifications and then when
that, we can bounce back to the photos. Okay. So a lot of the older parishioners were discussing
because we have issues with the hall and whether we want to sell it or not, we're not sure. So
I wanted to look into the properties as an architect. I'm like, well, I know a lot of
the older parishioners say the garage was built over a property line. Let me look into it. So
I took it upon myself two years ago and I started looking for the deeds. The church didn't even have
all the deeds. We actually have six deeds for the five properties that we own.
And when I started drawing it up, I was surprised because there was this weird overlap near the residences between 2109 and 2111.
And then again, between 2111 and our neighbor at 2113 through 15.
And I brought this to the council.
I said, well, it appears that they built over our property by two foot six.
Before we hired Mr. Danik, I spoke with a different attorney who said it's been so long.
There's no point in trying to go after that.
He said, just let it go.
So at that point, we hired a surveyor at the second district.
He came in and took existing conditions, drew that plan up, and then I went through with
him and explained what we wanted to do.
And the goal was to, and I went round and round, I took my plans to the council and
showed them, like, if we did it by code, this is what it would look like.
And it just looked so chopped up. And, you know, in order to get parcel D, I'm sorry, parcel E, which is 2111 to code, we would be 32 feet further to the east.
And, you know, at that point, you're hitting the garage again. And then, you know, you create this weird little space behind there.
And again, with 2109 to get that up to code, you know, you're running right up against the garage.
We wanted a nice, clean cut. And, you know, when we did rent those houses, the tenants never kept up on the back properties.
So we want to kind of take it back as part of the church and, you know, be able to possibly use it as, you know, picnic grounds or whatever.
um the issue with 2111 is when we gave away that two foot six that property went from
um i believe it was 17 six wide um we lost that two foot six so now it's down to 15 feet which
you know you need 16 foot wide property so that's our first problem um and then it actually steps
it has this weird step in the back of one foot six so in the back it goes down to 13.5 feet um
so it's all kind of cockeyed but this is as clean as we can make it um now with the church hall
there's only 10 feet between the garage and the hall the main part of the hall um i want mark to
eventually show you a picture because there is a one-story bump out on the side of the hall,
the west side of the hall, which sticks out. And that's where we set our property line.
Now, not sure whether, you know, if you go down a little road, see right there, there's like a
one-story. So we set it right at the edge of that wall. That way they still have access to the
basement that stairs going down to the basement um so that that's where we ended up putting the
property line um moving it from the middle of our garage to there so that's what set that
the other side was was pretty much where it was yeah that's a good picture showing the garage and
um the bump out and clearly you can't fit 12 feet in there unless we bulldoze the garage which we
don't want to do. Um, and then we lose our parking that we do have. So I think that's everything.
And then, uh, and then Ms. Krawcheck, did you get approval from the planning commission? Is
that that stamp here? That's hard to read. I did. I actually went there twice because of the first
time. Um, I didn't realize the surveyor had, so another issue we're dealing with is the change of
our name on our property and the surveyor had our old name and I got that changed.
our old name. And I got that changed and new names on there. And I went back to the planning
commissioning a second time. And I believe that's Sarah Chan, who signed it.
Okay, and let's see. So these are okay. So these are the updated.
So I put my phone number on the picture you were just showing. Once we hung the signs with the
the injection site. A lot of our parishioners that live in the neighborhood were getting
questioned by neighbors, like, what are you guys doing? And I decided to add my phone number onto
the zoning notice so that people can contact me. And nobody did. I know Mr. Danik's phone number
is on there as well. I don't believe he got contacted either. Yeah, I did not. I'd been
dealing with Mr. Reeves of one of the RCOs directly, but I did not get any individual
phone calls from any of the neighbors. Yeah. And last week while Mr. Danik was on, he was away,
we got a message from Mr. Reeves asking for a postponement of the RCO meeting. And I tried to
deal with it because Mr. Danik was away. And I had a little bit of back and forth with Mr. Reeves.
and he said there was a lot of issues and concerns with the neighbors and I said well if you could
please write them down and email them to me I will try to address them as best I could he said
he didn't want to he wanted me to call him I asked him again to please send them in writing
and he said he demanded a postponement of the meeting and at that point I stopped communication
with him because I feel like we weren't getting anywhere and let Mr. Danak deal with it when he
got back. And I did speak to Mr. Reeves yesterday morning before the meeting and it was really he
had a concern about us doing a second mailing which we had already done and he was comfortable
then that all the neighbors had the required notice for the meeting last night. That's why
we went forward with it. And Ms. Krawcheck I just have a couple questions regarding the hardship
that the church faces. Does compliance with the requirement of the zoning code
cause an unnecessary hardship due to the size, shape, contours, or physical dimensions of your
property? The hardships stem from years of the church acquiring properties and then building
over them on combined property lines. Also, property lines overlapping with our own
properties as well as neighbors. Our goal with this is to untangle the various lots to allow
for a better alignment with the existing structures. And then will the variance you
seek represent the least modification possible of the code provisions to provide relief from
the requirements of the zoning code? Yes, we are only proposing lot line adjustments within the
extents of our own properties. Do you propose any new construction? No. And will the variance you
seek increased congestion in the public streets or in any way endanger the public? No, all the
uses are remaining the same. And will the variance you seek substantially or permanently harm your
neighbor's use of the property or impair inadequate supply of light and air to those properties?
No, we're just mowing property lines.
And will the variance you seek substantially increase traffic congestion in the public streets or place undue burden on water source, school park, or other public facilities?
No, all uses will remain the same.
And will the variance you seek create environmental damage, pollution, erosion, or siltation, or increase the danger of flooding?
Thank you. And with that board, I would open it up to any questions that you may have.
Sure. Questions from the board?
I have a question. Go ahead, Cheryl.
No, you go ahead.
Quickly, at the RCO meeting, did the church inform the community of its possible intent or is just trying to figure out if they're going to sell the whole?
Yeah, it did come up. One of the concerns the church faces is that they have a small membership and lack revenue.
So what assets they have are the real estate.
So, you know, one of the possible intentions, and Ms. Krawchuk can confirm this, is possibly selling off the vacant lot to generate revenue to fix up the church and maintain it as a use.
That's really what I think has kind of generated all this, and that did come up during the RCO meeting, and we did explain it to them.
They did seem to have the concerns that were voiced were more on, well, if they sell it, what would go there next?
right i mean is it thought to have a deed restricted if it's sold um so that would
Right. I mean, is it thought to have a deed restricted if it's sold so that it wouldn't be, it couldn't be anything that the community didn't favor?
No, that discussion did not come up. What I did explain is that the property is owned RM1 and that whoever would buy it, they would be entitled to build whatever within the zoning code.
If they chose to go beyond that, they would have to come before the zoning board as well as the RCO again.
okay and and you do you think you clearly explained that the injection site overlags i
it can be kind of tricky to some lay people when they see injection site they're not thinking that
you have to come back to get permission to do something like that but do you feel like it was
that was good enough yeah i did the first 10 people kept asking the same question and i kept
repeating because they there was a lot of confusion on the zoom meeting with people coming on late
in different things. So I did repeat it a number of times. Finally, a woman, forget her last name,
I think it might be Mika, Mika Washington and Charles Reeves. They both explained that they,
I guess, had been in touch with the councilman's office to confirm that the injection site could
not go there and that was not permitted. And so that, you know, I believe was fairly well
discussed. And then after Mika and Mr. Reeves' discussion, the questions then focused more
on um you know if the church sold it what what could possibly go there
thank you the question other questions from the board
okay i guess my question is um you're not you you're consolidating these you're not consolidating
these what do we so so we're moving uh what we're doing is adjusting that we're not consolidating
or subdividing anything, what we're doing is simply moving existing lot lines so that
this area here, this open area that's currently deeded to the two individual residences will now
be part of the church campus. And by doing that, that eliminates putting the garage completely on
the property so that it's not straddling three different properties. So it's, I mean, it's,
i guess it's more of a lot line adjustment it's not really subdividing or adding anything new it's
the from the city's perspective um this will have to clean up this 2726 to 28 lot which the city
doesn't currently electronically recognize as a parcel but we do have deets showing that it is a
real piece and that is something on the uh revised uh refusal um that mr cohen of ellen i he did
note that that would be cleaned up, assuming that we get permission. And as we move forward,
that's where that'll get resolved. But, you know, that's the ultimate goal. And these are just the
three variance requests that we're seeking, as shown on the color-coded plan here. So you can
see here the change of the blue, basically. And the blue is what's triggering the different
variances and over here is a sort of like a highlight showing the adjustments to the property
lines to get them in line with the property walls instead of there being an encroachment on each
parcel as it moves up the block. Okay and you don't well I guess since you own the different
properties it's not a problem with respect to doing with respect to actual ownership of
No, well, the only, I guess, to answer your question, the only difference is that this parcel here, which is not owned by the church, that owner actually correctly gets two foot six to include now that his entire structure is on property deeded to himself instead of having two foot six of his property overlapping onto my client's property.
so rather than challenge the neighbor and tell him to tear down the house and move it
um and i could pull up a picture i think um let's see i think we have a good one yeah so this is the
this is the other structure that was built over the two foot six this is uh 2111 this is
one over on the right yeah the big brown building is not owned by the church and this is what was
built two foot six over the property line and then each one it looked like a surveyor's error
because these other two were also built two foot six over so rather than fight the neighbor for
this piece and have him move it um the church just decided to give this neighbor that two foot six
which now makes it in line with his actual built structure but to do that don't you have to do okay
But to do that, don't you have to do, okay.
I mean, wouldn't you have to do a subdivision, if you will, and then a consolidation so that it's part of the other property?
Not that I'm aware of.
When we were dealing with L&I, Mr. Cohen, what he proposes, the guidance we've been following.
okay which is you can just do this and i yeah and i think it might have more due to the fact
that these are all existing structures and that's just how they were built um so it's not like we're
building anything new or trying to you know tear down anything it's just yeah i'm not i'm not saying
that what i'm saying is that uh the the idea that you've got
the neighboring property this this property here right is two foot six over your property time
correct yeah so then
can i how are you can i mention something you're saying you're transferring it to
them but how do you how are you doing that without any kind of can i can i yeah go ahead
okay so the way 2109 2111 and 2113 through 15 if you read their deed there's um separate
paragraphs um of sections um so when you actually can you zoom into the blow up in the middle
mark yeah um yeah that's good so if you read through the deed that yellow part is one part
i'm sorry um yeah it goes from if you repeat on the left pob 2109 and it goes to pob 2111
And then there's another paragraph that says it also includes that P.O.B. 2111 to the next P.O.B. 2111, that orange section.
So that's. Is that the two feet six inches?
Yeah, the orange is the two foot six that for whatever reason, I don't know if it was meant to be like, you know, it was supposed to be open between the houses and they just built whatever they wanted and didn't, I don't know, maybe they didn't have codes or something back then when they built this.
I don't know. But you know how some properties have that walkway between their houses. Maybe that was I have asked around a lot of people. Nobody understands what that two foot six is. But the two foot six is also on 2113 through 15. Our neighbors did because I also purchased their deed and I read it and the exact same paragraph, exact same wording is in their deed.
so it's like we both owned it but our neighbor built over it so um was it meant to be open I
don't know but at this point he built over it and it's been there so long and the same thing
happened between our two residences if you read um the deed for 2109 and the little green
area there yeah it has that weird two foot six space as a separate paragraph and both of them
own it kind of it's kind of weird so i figure there nothing needs to be done we just need to
update our our written deeds which is the next step if we can move forward with this yeah and
i guess my only i'm just thinking that you you'd have to do it through some sort of process so
reforming the deeds in some way yeah and i do believe as we work through the lni process i
do believe that deeds of confirmation would need to be prepared and recorded correct okay
all right the surveyor is in that sense yeah he's already written uh the surveyor has already
written the legal description of the new properties and it's ready to be handed off if
if we move forward from here oh okay and you're doing that without doing a formal consolidation
because you don't really have to
because of the way the deeds of you.
All right.
Thank you.
Any other questions for the board?
Questions from our attorney, Hillary Emerson.
I just want to note that a copy of the RCO letter
could be forwarded.
That would be great
because we have not received it.
Thank you.
Yeah, I'll send it after.
I think RCO ZBA,
Mr. Reeves did send it to a handful of people,
but i do have i'll and i didn't want to upload it because i i didn't want to upload another person's
And I didn't want to upload it because I didn't want to upload another person's document, but I can email it to the board council after this.
And I guess, I'm sorry, I did have another question, which is the houses, what are they being used for?
Are they just empty or are you using them in conjunction with the church or what's in there?
They were being rented. There was some water damage a couple of years ago. We've had the roofs redone, but the water damage inside, we're still working on. As Mr. Danik said, we're having some slight monetary issues.
So if we could sell maybe a piece of the land of this whole property, then we could have the money to fix them up and then re-rent them again.
Okay. Thank you.
Questions or comments from the virtual audience?
I do not see any further hands, Mr. Chair.
Planning Commission.
Amy Boyd with the Planning Commission. The comprehensive plan recommends no changing
zoning at this location from the existing residential multifamily RM1. The proposed
occupied area variance is de minimis, and the proposed lot area and side yard measurements
are consistent with the character of the neighborhood. Additionally, the proposed lot
line adjustments are attempted to correct inconsistencies in property records and align
with the existing buildings.
The Planning Commission recommends that the Board grant the requested variances
for occupied area, minimum lot area, and side yard setback.
MI 2024-002-539-2101-S 20A Street, I vote yes with proviso.
Her amended refusal dated 327-24.
Michael Johns, my vote is yes with proviso.
Carol Gaston, my vote is yes with provisos.
Tanetta Graham, my vote is yes with provisos.
Iowan, my vote is yes with provisos.
Thank you, counsel.
You have your votes.
Great.
Thank you.
All right.
And number 11, MI 2024-002-620-1126 South Front Street.
Jennifer Bazzillo is the attorney.
applicant provided email from pensport civic association indicating that the position would
be non-opposition a letter of non-opposition from council member squilla has been received
good morning council good morning hi could you please state your name is spelled for the court
stenographer sure jennifer bazitlo b-a-z-y-d-l-o you swear or affirm to tell the truth the whole
truth and nothing but the truth i do but you identify your client and the relationship to
the property sure um my client is cascade investments llc um who is the owner and
applicant for this project and today i have alec tran who's the principal member of that llc
with me. Stipulate to the reading of the refusal and agree
with its accuracy. I can stipulate to the reading or waive the reading
but I can't stipulate to the accuracy as the one refusal
for the fence gate on South Howard states that it is
100% opaque when it is not. Thank you. Why don't you proceed
and start your presentation. One second here.
Documents up.
okay all right so uh as we say we're here today to talk about 1126 south front street i'm just
going to run through the exhibits really quickly and then we'll come back to the ones that are
um of note um so this is the refusal and we have the deed showing cascade investments as the owner
uh we showed that the property tax balance is zero for this property uh the letter of non-opposition
from pensport civic this was my email when i didn't have that um this is the aerial view of
the property just to get you acquainted this is along south front street in pensport um you know
right across from the highway here um let's see here this is the zoning map of the area as you
see it's a mix of residential and commercial and industrial. This was the prior fence. We'll come
back to this. This is some photos of people jumping the prior fence. And here you can see
our postings. There are three sides to this property and it was posted on the front, side,
And it was posted on the front, side, and rear, and surrounding area.
and rear.
We'll come back to a lot of these as well.
And this is the plans for the fence and rear gate.
So let's just go back to here.
All right.
So 1126 South Front Street, it is zoned RSA 5.
It has an existing structure on it with a rear yard.
The parcel itself is a little over 1,900 square feet, and it is currently used by a variance that was obtained in 2020 as the owner's tax accounting office and a residential unit.
We are in South Philly here, and this property is bordered by three streets.
Front Street in the front, Titan on the side, and South Howard in the rear.
And this is kind of what generates some of the issues with the fencing and meeting the requirements of the code for the fencing.
So right now we have, I'm going to show you what the fence is right now.
Give me one second.
So my client bought this property in 2019.
So we're here just today to legalize what is already there.
namely this wall along this wall slash fence along Titan Street and this gate in the rear
prior so when my client bought the property in 2019 there was already a fully opaque
masonry wall slash fence there and the property in general was kind of in rough shape so as he
was using it for his business he began to fix up the property and had a contractor come out
and look at this wall um and it was determined that basically the wall was not in good shape
was leaning over was falling was cracking that sort of stuff and the contractor meant uh recommended
to replace it which is what my client did um at the time he didn't fully understand that this
should have that he should have obtained permits before doing this as he was replacing an existing
wall with a substantially similar wall. Specifically, if we look at what the difference
between what was there and what is there now, this wall right here along Titan Street is
10 cinder blocks high, which gives it a height of about 6 feet 10 inches. And when we look
at what is there now, we have a wall that is a little over 7 feet tall because one additional
cinder block was added to the top. And as far as the rear fence goes, that is a little over nine
feet. However, and I just want to show also, this is where the fully opaque, you can see that there's
light coming through this fence. It is not 100% opaque. You can definitely, as you look at the
different angles, see into the rear yard at that, in that top portion, the non-compliant portion of
the fencing is in fact able to see through it. And what I would note here is that, well, first
let me talk about another reason was the fence was built a little bit higher. And that was the
owner was having problems with people jumping over the fence. Let me just get back to those photos
here um so this is again right across from where the um 95 runs with the parking underneath um it
is a mix of residential and industrial area um and there are significant issues that can arise
with people uh maybe in the area not looking to do such great things like steal from people
break into people's homes and that sort of thing and this is kind of an ideal area because you had
a main street with this quiet private back area that's kind of the rear of everyone's property
and so this is just an example of people coming into the property jumping over into the neighbor's
yards it's been an issue so the extra brick was just to kind of put it above the reach of most
people that they can't come over and climb over quite as easily while not significantly altering
what was there. So really, and this, this sort of security issue stems from the fact of how this
property is situated, that it is, it's not just a rear yard. It is a corner. And it is a corner.
The property has three, three faces. And so we're in the rear. And it's not out of character for
neighborhood either to have a higher wall here. Let me get back to the existing conditions. As you can see the adjacent
let me get back to the existing conditions. As you can see the adjacent parcel has a garage
or what used to be a garage maybe now is storage immediately adjacent which with a significantly
higher structure immediately adjacent to where we have this roll gate. When you look let me get
to these other photos uh and then if you look here um going on the photo with north howard
this is what's directly across from where the seven foot five uh wall is on titan street i have
a little bit better photo of it too hold on one second there we go uh and this is an industrial
zone building with 100 lot occupancy that hosts an emergency a 24-hour emergency vet um
um there are no windows on the first floor there's nothing that a difference of three feet three and a
half feet really impacts that neighbor at all um and this park is what is across the street from
the roll gate um so you really don't have any impacted you know light or air impacts on any
of the neighbors especially since that rear um has you know is not fully opaque um hold on one
second. Let me just get back to where I was here. So, and also of note, if you look at the other
corners here around here, they're occupied. These are the two other corners across from
our property going north on North Howard. And at these corners, we have full story buildings. This
is two stories. This is three stories. And when you look at what we have, we're over 30 feet under
where these buildings were allowed to be built. So it's not like you have four corners where
everyone's yards meet up and everyone's unique. The consistency would actually be to have a higher
building here rather than just a wall to protect for security reasons. I also wanted to note,
let me get to this other picture here. If you can see Caddy Corner here, this is a building
that's on Wharton Street. It's 111 Wharton Street. As you can see, they have a fully opaque fence,
and I measured this fence, and it's a little over six feet here as well. So it's not between the
property next door and across, and the buildings on the corner, we have a fairly unique property
with three sides, and we have it surrounding by other things that are taller, denser than what
we're proposing here. So, and I would just say again that it really is the way that this lot
is configured and its location that necessitates having a higher wall and for increased security
purposes. There should be no, and in terms of impact on the neighbors too, I could argue that
having a secure property and not something that obviously looks like a property to attract
people to break into, to jump into, to hang out in, is better for the neighbors than to have
a property that people know they can break into because there's not adequate protection of the
property. The proposed variant shouldn't increase traffic or congestion. It wouldn't endanger the
public health or safety. And this has no impact on light or air access or use of the surrounding
properties. And as I said, the surrounding properties are similar or higher than what
we are proposing. I notified 132 addresses for the Pennsport Civic meeting, which we
had on September 9th, as stated in the letter. Let me show you here. There was no community
opposition at the meeting and they also had received no opposition um from community members
outside of the meeting i would also note that uh i received a couple of phone calls from neighbors
i explained what was going on and they had no problem as well if you want to take that for what
that is um so there was no issues with the neighbors um and so really we're looking to
to legalize what is there, which is the existing wall here and fence.
And obviously, if the variance is granted, we will be going through the process of making
sure that the appropriate building permits are retroactively obtained and that all of
the structures are safe and secure and built to come.
Counsel, you want to bring your client on?
Mr. Tran, can you raise your hands, please?
I have been about to speak, sir.
Sir, could you please state your name and spell for the court's sonographer?
My name is Alec Tran.
It's A-L-E-C-T-R-A-N.
Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth, to hold truth, and nothing but the truth?
Swear or affirm to tell the truth, to hold truth, and nothing but the truth.
Yes, I do.
Yes, I do.
Please.
Please proceed, counsel.
Mr. Tran, did you hear my testimony here today and believe it to be truthful and accurate?
And would you adopt it as your own?
Thank you.
Questions from the board?
No questions.
Questions or comments from our attorney, Hillary Emerson?
I just wanted to know, Mr. Chair, that we did receive a copy of the letter this morning,
the letter of non-opposition from PennSport. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Questions or
comments from the virtual audience? I do not see any further hands, Mr. Chair. Planning Commission.
Amy Ward with the Planning Commission. Comprehensive plan recommends no change to the
residential single-family RSA 5 zoning at this location. The dimensional variance is
is existing and was construction without the benefit of permits.
There are no unique physical circumstances or condition that would prevent the fence height
for being in conformance with the zoning code.
However, the opacity issue was pre-existing when the appellant purchased the property.
Planning Commission recommends that the Board deny the requested variance for fence height
and grant the requested variance for opacity on Titan Street and Howard Street.
MI 2024-002-620-1126 South Front Street, I vote yes.
Michael Johns, my vote is yes.
Terrell Gaston, my vote is yes.
Sonetta Graham, my vote is yes.
Iowen, my vote is yes.
Thank you very much.
Thank you, counsel.
Hillary, number 12, this is the one we didn't get to.
Yes, the property owner, I understand, is available.
MI 2024-002-622-10916, Nandina Lane Amin Safay is the owner.
There's a letter of support from the Somerton Civic Association, vote of 27 to 6, and a letter non-opposition from Council Member O'Neill.
hello this is hamza the applicant and i have amin the owner is with me right here he's on the line
okay so we we're well we're going to use amin is the owner that's going to testify for us okay
correct okay amin could you please state your name and spell it for the court stenographer
Hey, good morning.
My name is Avin.
Last name is Safayev.
Could you spell your name, please?
A-M-I-N.
Go ahead.
Last name, Avin.
Last name, S-A-F-A-E-V.
Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth?
So this application is for the elimination of one interior garage parking space to close the existing garage door and the creation of one surface parking space accessory to an existing semi-detached single-family dwelling.
The proposed surface parking space is located in the front yard, which is prohibited in the RSA 3 zoning district.
Could you please start your presentation?
Mr. Chair, I don't know if there's any way, because it seems like the property owner is on the phone with the...
Hillary, I got it. Absolutely. Can you see these? Are you going to be able to see the documents?
Hello?
i mean i mean can can you see the documents
can you see the documents i mean but yeah sorry you you got to stop your
coming in there okay i mean can you see the documents
i mean
Yeah, I think the only way we can proceed, Mr. Chair, is if the property owner comes on to the Zoom separately so that we can see him and know that he can see the documents that are being presented.
So, I mean, I think I'm going to continue this, shall we?
Yes, Mr. Chair.
So MI 2024-002-622-10916-9AD.
002-622-10916, Nanadena Lane.
Cases continued.
Thank you, Board Chair.
Thank you, members.
Thank you.
Number 13, MI 2024, 002-641, 621 North 64th Street.
Mahari Bailey is the attorney.
There's a recommendation of support from the Neighbors of Overbrook Association,
9 to 3.
Coming back in.
Great.
Thank you.
I'm sorry.
I'm trying to start the video.
I apologize, Chair.
Good afternoon, Chair.
Good afternoon, Board members.
Will you state your name and spell for the court stenographer?
Mahari Bailey, M-A-H-A-R-I, last name Bailey, B-A-I-L-E-Y.
do you swear or affirm to tell the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth
i do but you identify your client the relationship to this property yes sofinite mconin is the owner
she should be in the uh in the audience as well you stipulate to the reading of the refusal and
you agree with its accuracy yes why don't you start your presentation counsel i'm going to
share the screen and then share screen. Okay. You are screen sharing. Okay. Can you see my screen?
You might want to make it a little bit bigger. Yeah, I am. I am. I just wanted to know if you
know your screens help, sir. Okay. Thank you. Yeah. So 621 North 64th street. I'll go through
the documents, and then I'll give you the story once we make our way through the documents.
It should be relatively quick. We have the refusal, the application for appeal. The packet
was mailed in probably a month ago. We've been ready. Project information form, the deed is there,
the notification to the neighbors. We had the RCO meeting as well. RCO is in support.
One second, she had a lot of mailings.
She's compliant with the taxes, photographs.
Okay, so these are the photographs of the exterior with the notice.
And then we'll go to the, these are the interior photos, and I'll refer back to these shortly.
I don't know if you need me to slow down so you can see the photos, but she purchased a home renovated already.
So these are the photos of the interior and these photos are from the listing when she purchased the home.
Yeah. And then here I'll shrink this. Here's the the layout in the plans from the architect.
um so as you can see she has the home was built as a single family home and sold to her
as a four bedroom two and a half bath home but there's the basement in this house is above grade
so when the home was uh when the home was renovated they added an in-law suite because
the home was built to miss mcconin's needs uh her parents were in north jersey and they were
retiring and moving in with her. So she requested that the home be built with an in-law suite.
So permits were pulled. The house was built accurately. As you can see, there's access to
the basement on this. There's a rear stairwell in the back of the house, if you see, to access
the basement from the stairwell. So when she purchased the home, her family moved in. She
lived in with her family. Her family subsequently decided to return to North Jersey and she decided
to rent out two rooms in the home, one of the rooms being the basement area. So she got her
rental license. And as you can see, it's owner occupied, single family dwelling, renting two
rooms. But she had a landlord tenant dispute with one of the tenants who became unhappy.
So they subsequently called L&I.
L&I came out and determined that the building should be listed as a duplex because the in-law suite contained a separate kitchen.
So they wanted her to go through zoning to get it zoned as a duplex so she could continue renting the two spaces.
So as you can see, here's the original listing as well.
I'll make that bigger for you.
Here's the original listing, the RCO meeting.
The RCO is supporting the change.
The RCO is supporting the change to a residential duplex.
And then if you look here, almost the entire block is multifamily.
So east side of the street, 11 out of the 19 properties are multifamily dwelling.
And on the west side of the street, there's one, two, three, four multifamily dwellings that are known.
I think there's a few that aren't known.
um but yeah miss mcconin purchased the property as a single family home she rented out the two
rooms counsel how do you get into the property again could you show that i'll show you yeah
there's two there's two means of uh of egress into the into the property so if you go to the
you want to see pictures or you want to see the plans well the plans if you have pictures it
makes it easier it might yeah so i'll go back to the pictures um so as you can see uh the photographs
that's the front door here this black door um and then i'll show you from the interior
again the basement is above grade so if you look here you see this door here
sorry i'll zoom in this door here is another means of egress to enter that space there's
also an egress window above grade in this space as well i don't know that it's in it's if you if
you see where this door where the pointer is to the right of that there's an egress window so
there's multiple means of egress from the from the above grade basement and then there's um
two means of egress from the first floor of the upstairs as well okay um yeah so miss mconin just
wants to make this a legal duplex so that she can remove the city center of violation with some
fines. So she's trying to get the fines removed. And we just want to legalize this as a duplex so
she can continue to rent out. Do you want to bring her on, please? Yeah. Can you raise your hand,
Ms. McConaughey? She has been about to speak. Hello. Hi, could you please state your name and
spell for the court stenographer? Sure. It's Sophanit Makanen, S-O-P-H-A-N-I-T, last name
Makanen, M-A-K-O-N-N-E-N. Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth, the whole truth, nothing but the
truth? Yes. Please proceed, counsel. Thank you. Ms. Makanen, have you heard my entire testimony?
Yes. Okay. Has it been truthful and accurate? Yes. Do you adopt it as your own? Yes. Thank you.
questions from the board
yeah go ahead
I was just wondering is there a question
I mean a picture of the
exterior of the building where these two
clear story glass block windows
are to say
that again in this last photo
that you had from the interior of the basement
where there's the two windows up
above do you have a photo of the building
from the exterior at that
view I'm trying to hold
I'm going to go through all the pictures, so I'm not sure what. So here's the, this is the front
of the house. This is a front bedroom. That's the bay, a middle bedroom, second bedroom. There's
three bedrooms and two baths on the, uh, on the top floor, which is the second floor.
This is the first floor living area facing the front of the house. Um, this is the dining room
and the rear of the house is here so there's a door that exits the rear there um that's a
half bath in that in this room here to the left is that half bath to the right is the egress
um i'm not sure what windows you're talking about so let me go through you'll see keep going
keep going those those is there a photo of the of the facade of the house oh no that's a breezeway
that's not um that's a breezeway so the the house is built on an uh on an incline in a hill
so the level of the basement at this point the ground is about here where my arrow is
but it it runs like this down so at some point it drops and then there's steps and you go down
and it's above green yeah i was just wondering okay i understand no there's no exterior uh
There's no exterior photos of the breezeway. I apologize.
And then how do you, is there a rear exit for the basement?
Like does the basement have.
Yeah. I showed that in the.
I heard you mention it. Okay.
That's the exit right there.
And where's that exiting into the rear yard, into the rear yard.
And then how is there an alley or can they walk through the breezeway to get
to the main street?
Yeah. I'm sorry. So you exit this door. You're in the rear yard.
So you exit this door, you're in the rear yard, you turn left, and you make another left, and you're in the breezeway.
you turn left and you make another left and you're in the
So there's, let me go back to the, here, here it is.
So we do have pictures, sorry, the architect did take pictures.
So that, this is the door for the first floor here, where you come out and you go down the steps to enter the rear yard.
This is the door to enter the apartment.
There's a little storage area and then a second door inside.
So you turn left and then you come here and you see what I mean?
You go up these steps and then you just walk through the breezeway.
Okay. And do you know the width of that breezeway?
No, it varies at certain points because you see here, this is the average width.
Yeah, it's definitely it's definitely up to code because it's it's bigger than three feet.
I just don't know the exact number.
Okay. Other questions?
Yes. I'm assuming your plan is, or I shouldn't assume, but is your plan to completely seal off the basement from the first floor since it's going to be zoned truly as a duplex with the appropriate separation?
So, Fanit, are you preferring to do that, to separate it, or are you preferring to leave it and do it as the owner-occupied room rentals?
I'd follow whatever is required.
So, is the request to do a two-family dwelling?
Yes, the request is to do a two-family dwelling.
Falling separated by one-hour fire rating, so there'd be no connection between the two.
That's what she's going to want to do.
So then the only egress and ingress would be through that breezeway that you described.
Yes, and then there's an egress window here as well.
you keep saying the egress window but if those if those are the two windows that you're showing
the plan that's not an egress no no no no these are the two windows that she was just asking about
they're here in the front here this here these windows are above grade and egress so to the
correct height they're not depicted they're not drawn on the plan as egress windows are usually
notated but you did say that when you when you know when I when I say egress I'm sorry I don't
mean the egress well it's not below grade it's above grade so when I said window I said it's
not they're not the size like egress windows have a specific yeah specific size and documentation
on floor plans that that is not showing and you did not have a photo of the window you said the
window is over here so we we haven't seen it is all we're saying okay let me see if we no she
doesn't have a picture those are the two and then that's not an egress window so yeah so the side
one is uh no she doesn't have she doesn't have the kitchen that's the basement that's the kitchen
in the basement and that is so that's this window here yeah that's this window here
okay but there is either way there is direct egress outside yeah there is direct egress
outside as well.
There is. There's just not a lot
of natural light. That's all.
The questions from the board.
Questions or comments from our
attorney?
Not at this time, Mr. Chair.
Questions or comments from the virtual audience?
I do not see any further hands, Mr. Chair.
Planning Commission?
Amy Boyd with the Planning Commission.
The comprehensive plan recommends no change in zoning at this location from the existing residential single-family twin, RSA 3.
The property is located on the block base consisting of RSA 3 homes with no parking.
The additional unit would therefore consist of an overuse of the property.
Therefore, the Planning Commission recommends that the Board deny the requested variance for two-family residential use.
MI 2024-002-641-621-North-64th Street, I vote yes.
Michael Jones, my vote is yes.
Cheryl Gaston, my vote is yes.
Tanetta Graham, my vote is yes.
Iowan, my vote is no.
Thank you, Counselor, you have your votes.
Thank you.
Thank you, everyone.
Have a good day.
Number 15, MI 2024, 002-842-4143 Lancaster Avenue.
Henry Clinton is the attorney.
henry clinton is the attorney
they will be rejoining as a panelist soon sir
good afternoon mr chairman and members of the board
counsel could you please state your name and spell for the courts tonight
sure henry h-e-n-r-y clinton c-l-i-n-c-o-n
Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth, the whole truth, nothing but the truth?
Do you identify your client in relationship to this property?
Sure. My client is Kevin Roghani, R-O-W-G-H-A-N-I.
He's a member of the Orbitant Partnership.
Okay. Do you stipulate to the reading of the refusal, and do you agree with the accuracy?
I do, Mr. Chairman.
Please start your presentation.
And let me see here. I also. You have a letter of support from Hope, Philadelphia.
And also you have a petition of support from five neighbors, including four on the block.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Again, Henry Clinton on behalf of Mr. Raghani. Can you see my cover sheet?
We can.
All right. Contains a table of contents A1 through A10, which I ask be admitted.
it. This is the refusal. So this is basically a long, vacant commercial property, we believe at
least 10 years, on the 4100 block of Lancaster Avenue, where there are numerous commercial
spaces that are vacant. And there are some all residential units that are occupied, two triplexes.
And where the front facade of this property is in utter disarray, as is the internal
uh part of the property which i'll show you in photographs and we're basically going to rehab
the property drastically and and at great expense and redo the front facade
the background on this is there was commercial space historically and i have records from the
1920s indicating it was retail food and it was always retail or commercial on the first floor
and then three units above. Because my client contacted with a nearby commercial realtor,
basically advising us that keep the commercial space small because you have a better chance of
getting a commercial tenant. This is a block that's in transition. There are a lot of businesses
there, but there are a number of vacant spaces. So basically what we're doing is taking the first
floor commercial, shrinking the commercial space, keeping the facade as a commercial,
and then putting an accessible unit, one bedroom in the rear. So instead of having commercial in
three, we're asking for a commercial in four. And the reason being the commercial space is too large
and we want to try to attract some tenant there so we don't have a dark space. That's really the
background and I'll walk you through the presentation we do have an RCO letter of
support I just point out that there was other RCOs that also participated and
they're in support because they're trying to revitalize this commercial
corridor and they are happy that we're going to have an accessible unit on the
first floor these are signatures from other business owners on the block
there's a hair salon there's a barber shop and there's a sign shop and I'll
show you photographs. So this is an aerial view of Lancaster Avenue. Where my cursor is, that's
moving south. That's Brown Street, where my cursor is right now. And toward where my cursor is now,
it's north on Lancaster Avenue. So where the black line is, is the subject property. On the corner
is a new store that's supposed to be opening up. And I'll show you closer photographs of that.
As we work our way down the block going south, there's a hair salon, there's a sign company, there's a triplex, there's a vacant lot, and there's a few other vacant lots and some businesses on that side.
There's also some vacant commercial space.
This is a closer view.
So here with the red brick, which I believe has been painted over, and the front facade, which is in disarray, this is my client's property, which he just acquired in January.
The front wall, and I'll show you closer shots, is in really good shape.
I mean, it's going to be dressed up, cleaned up, new windows, and we're going to maintain the corners.
We're not adding anything to the footprint.
We're not adding any height or any third story.
We're basically keeping the building but redoing the front facade.
So this is a juice bar on the corner.
It's a relatively small space.
We believe it's under 500 square feet.
Here's the hair salon.
Here's the company that does printing.
Here is the triplex vacant lot, and then this is a triplex too.
Here is the triplex, vacant lot, and then this is a triplex too.
Again, some of the other, the closer shot of the various businesses.
The only thing I didn't say in the beginning, across the street, this is a tire repair shop.
A lot of vehicles parked in open space there, but it's been there for a while, and we understand that use.
So this is the rear of the property.
There's a bay that overhangs the second floor, excuse me, the first floor.
And this brings light and air into the units on the second and third floor.
And I'll show you the floor plan.
Because of the nature of this building, each unit is going to have ample light and air.
It's not a situation where the client's trying to cram a lot of units into a building where there's no light or air.
Because of the step-back construction of this property along the north wall, it really is advantageous for someone to have decent light and air.
This is the triplex down the street that I mentioned.
Here is a science store, another shot of our property, my client's property.
Directly across the street is a clinic from the Philadelphia College of Osteopathy Medicine.
And this is a better view of the property, again, with the hair salon right to the south.
Some interior photographs to show you the dismal condition of the property.
Basement will just be for storage and utilities.
These are the rear yard, overgrown, but will be taken care of.
We took a photograph of the property at night, just so you can see how it appears, and we
think that the brick may have been painted over and that there's maybe a brown or gray
brick underneath.
this is what the rendering this is running what the property will look like again maintaining the
cornice nice row lock of our windows the headers they'll stay the same and we'll redo the front
facade the door on the left is the entry to the accessible unit on the first floor and also to
get to the apartments upstairs let me just switch this around
again just the depiction of what the property will look like again maintaining what is there
let me go back and
this is the site plan but I and this is what I was talking about with the step back nature of the
building. This is the corner store, which is going to sell drinks and smoothies, and this is our
property. So along the north wall, it steps back, and this line will then serve as a line for our
commercial space with a door here so that there's open space for the commercial tenant to put
whatever items they want in the alleyway, but also along this alleyway, they're light to bring
into the first floor rear handicap unit and then the second and third floor also step back
and there'll you'll i'll show you there's windows here and also there's a two-story protruding bay
in the rear i'll work left to right this is the basement there'll be a shared basement accessible
for anyone who wants to use it except for the commercial space uh the front door as i said
There were two doors. One leads to the units. The other door leads to the commercial space, which is about 330 square feet.
Again, when my client, and he will testify to this, spoke to a commercial broker in the neighborhood at 52nd and Larchwood,
she said that it's best to try to keep the commercial unit small.
You're really going to be able to attract more of a wide range of tenants because they don't want to pay for large commercial space on the first floor.
and we don't want to compete with the other tenants on the commercial space on the block.
So my client is trying to gear this to maybe a small nonprofit, maybe a contractor, maybe
an accountant, you know, an accountant, something like that, that you don't need a lot of back
area, but you do need frontage on a commercial corridor and you do need to have an appealing
facade. So as you walk into the second door, the door on the left, you would lead to the
accessible unit in the rear, which has one bedroom and a full bath, kitchen, living room,
and dining area. Then you would walk up the steps to the second floor. You would have a two
Then you would walk up the steps to the second floor. You would have a two-bedroom unit as you enter. In the front would be a living, dining, and kitchen area, one bedroom all on the side with window area, and then bathroom having a window, and then a rear bedroom also having windows.
So the layout is going to be one bedroom on the first floor, two bedrooms on the second floor, and then on the third floor, it would be, again, one bedroom and then a studio apartment.
So you would then walk up the steps, and at the top of the steps on the second floor, there are trash enclosures for each of the three apartment dwellers on the second and third floor.
The first floor apartment will be able to keep the trash in the rear, and the commercial unit will be able to keep its trash outside.
in that small breezeway. I'll return to the third floor. We have one bedroom in the front
and then a studio, an affordable studio in the rear of the property.
The rest of the documents are the typical documents you would see in such a presentation,
our application, tax clearance, zoning map. Again, it is a unique small lot, but does have
an out area in the rear yard, but because of the step back nature of the building,
you are able to bring light and air into the building. The deed indicating ownership in
January of 2024, our notice letter, and then just some zoning records that we were able to find from
1954 indicating, because I couldn't find any current use at all. That's why I say it's been
vacant and in a blighted condition for a minimum 10 years and the folks on the during the community
meeting really weren't sure how long it's been vacant so i don't want to overstate that but we
do believe it's at least 10 years 1956 three family with retail and hand clothing this is a
document, the historical document just indicating 1924, three units, 1956, three units in the
business. And again, that same year, 1956. And again, this is a record from 1968. We were able
to find three-family retail food and cosmetics.
So, in conclusion, at least with regard to my testimony, I can have my client adopt my
testimony, but I did want to ask him a couple of questions before I concluded.
If he could unmute himself, Mr. Chairman.
Kevin, can you raise your hand, please?
Could you please state your name and spell for the stenographer?
Yes, my name is Kevin Rogani, K-E-V-I-N-R-O-W-G-H-A-N-I.
Or affirm to tell the truth, the whole truth, nothing but the truth.
Please proceed, counsel.
Kevin, good afternoon.
And you've been on the call the entire time when I presented your project.
And can you tell the board whether or not you spoke to a commercial broker?
And if you did, what did that broker tell you and where are they located?
They are located right down in Havertown, Havertford Road, or Havertford Avenue right there in West Philadelphia.
I spoke to them about this property and about my future plans.
They did agree that a small commercial space is better suited considering the area has a lot of vacant businesses and some of the existing businesses are using very small space.
The changes that we've experienced in the last five years with COVID, a lot of businesses are not requiring as much space.
um especially if it's a you know non-profit or some sort of contractor office or small office
of that sort um they said uh you know it would uh rent out um and it would be uh more affordable
for a small business to launch um in an area that needs you know uh commercial space to be filled
Kevin, you've been on the block numerous times, correct?
Correct.
And how many vacant commercial spaces are there on the block right now?
I would say at least 50%.
Um, there's, uh, there's a lot of businesses that went out of business and they're, uh, boarded up or the, uh, gates that are, uh, to protect the building or the glass, uh, are pulled down and they're just vacant.
There's a lot of businesses that went out of business.
Right. Do you have any leads on commercial tenants?
I'm like, not at the moment, because the state of the property is just not attractive to entice somebody to rent as is. So at the moment, no.
You have an intention to sign a listing agreement with a commercial broker?
Absolutely.
And do you intend to move forward with that if the board looks upon us kindly today?
Okay. I don't have any further questions, Captain. Thank you.
By the way, one more question. Are you going to have this property professionally managed by someone, by a commercial broker?
Okay. And are you going to make that first floor accessible unit affordable?
Yes, I will. That first floor is essentially matches the sidewalk grade. So in some aspects, it's easy for handicapped folks.
And also the studio apartment on the third floor, is that also going to be an affordable unit, which you told the community group?
Okay. No further questions of this witness, Mr. Chairman.
Questions for the board.
I have a question in terms of the trash that's on the upper floor of the trash room. How is that going to be managed?
I will speak for Kevin. I believe, Mr. Johns, that the management company is going to have a service person take that trash out.
okay then the first floor tenant um uh there'll be commercial trash pickup and the first floor
tenant will uh keep their trash at the rear yes the first floor tenant will keep the trash right
in this breezeway and yes it will be commercial trash pickup okay and for the uh trash area that's
on the second floor um what's the yeah the second floor uh road and control and exhaust
uh we're trying to get an exhaust uh i don't think we can get an exhaust out the side but
i think the plan is to take it into the breezeway and then run it up to the roof
where my cursor is we can get it through the joist bay there out into the open space there
Correct. The floors have, each floor has a very high ceiling. It's beyond eight feet. Each floor, I think, is about 10 feet.
Okay. Appreciate you putting furniture on the plane. Makes it much easier for people to read. Thank you.
Thank you, Mr. Johns.
I have a question.
So I have two questions.
One, for the accessible unit at the rear, how are they supposed to bring their trash through the building from the rear yard?
So that's the only exterior space that we have?
And then, two, you keep referring to this as an accessible unit.
And I know you mentioned that it was at grade to the sidewalk, but your elevations depict a step that's generally considered higher than a zero-step entry, and there's no turning radius in the residential bathroom, and it does not look like it, like the way the doors are laid out, it does not look like it is designed around wheelchair use, nor does it have a roll-in shower.
So could you speak a little bit more about how you're accommodating this and considering it an accessible unit?
Kevin, can you handle that?
Is the architect on the call as well?
Yeah, Aaron. Aaron Forsum, can you raise your hand and be on mute it?
I'm absolutely not. Are you able to hear me?
Yes. Could you please state your name and spell for the court stenographer?
Sure. So my name is Aaron Forsman, A-A-R-O-N, and then Forsman, F-O-R-S-M-A-N, and I'm with Wiedemann Architecture. We are the architecture firm for this project.
Swear or affirm to tell the truth, the whole truth, nothing but the truth.
Please proceed, counsel.
So, Aaron, on that first floor, we have represented to the community group that this is going to be an accessible unit.
And Ms. Graham raised a question about, it looks like on a rendering, there may be a step.
It looks like on a rendering, there may be a step.
Is that going to be a ramp step?
Let me go back.
Yeah, I can clarify a little on that.
Currently, it is not designed for accessibility, so we can adjust it to fit that.
We would just have to adjust it for clearances.
And again, like you were saying, a roll-in shower, that sort of deal with all the accessibility features.
And then currently, with the step at the front, there is a step.
So we would have to add some sort of either ramp right off the front or most likely just a ramp off that one front to the left.
So the reason I bring that up is because the ramp would have needed to be reviewed as part of the zoning packet to make sure that it wasn't encroaching into the right of way.
So for the hardship reasoning to be that this is going to be an accessible unit, there's a disjuncture with that argument for me.
I'm sorry, I misidentified you as Ms. Graham, my mistake.
It's okay.
Yeah, if I guess that's the case, it would make sense for the drawings to be updated to show that that truly is inaccessible.
So you don't know the ground floor because the front configuration would need to change and they don't have the appropriate holes, you know, on the full side of the door, et cetera.
As Ms. Taya mentioned, the wheelchair access to the bathroom.
My concern is that it's tight.
A lot of the clearances that you would need to make this an accessible unit, it's tight and that it might require encroaching more into that commercial unit.
And it would absolutely change the layout of this first floor.
At least for the hallway entry, yes.
Well, and there's not that much space there, too.
So I just, right.
Right.
The front first floor front would need to be, those entrances would need to be reconfigured.
I feel like that's the main point of this conversation
so I think the plans would need to be updated
right I have a question in terms of the
third floor studio like is there not a market
for another two bedroom unit
condensing the third floor into one two bedroom unit
you don't think there's a market for that in the community
uh i'll kevin i'll try that question i i mean we do have one two bedroom i think the thought was
make make the units a little bit different you have a one bedroom two one bedrooms and then a
studio uh but i i wouldn't say a two bedroom is not marketable so i would
do you want to weigh in on that question by miss graham uh whether that third floor unit
should be two bedroom uh rather than a studio and a one bedroom
i don't know i don't know if you've done a marked study or anything i mean this is
what is this this is lancaster avenue yes 4100 block so i'd imagine there's a market for both
That's that's what I would think, but I don't want to just because of the relationship to, you know, University of Penn, Drexel and the other now.
Questions or comments from the virtual audience?
planning commission
see any further hands Mr. Chair
planning commission
Amy Boyd with the planning commission
the property zoning designation
commercial mixed use CMX2
is recommended to remain consistent
under the 2023 proposed remapping
the appellant has not shown evidence
that there are unique physical circumstances
or condition that would prevent the property
for being used in conformance to the zoning code.
The property has a documented history
of the three-family household dwellings.
The City Planning Commission recommends
that the board grant the variance
for multifamily household dwelling
with provisor maximum three units.
So why don't we do this?
Why don't we hold this, Henry?
And why don't we do the plans over
or update the plans?
And Hillary, can we close this
except for the updated plans
and any comments council may want to make?
um then we would need to we would need we can but we would need to do a resumption hearing if
you're going to be showing well then why don't we do it why don't we do a short resumptive hearing
okay okay all right henry is that okay all right the resumption hearing will be
All right, Henry, is that okay?
All right, and the resumption hearing will be limited to presentation of revised plans and any comments from council, the public, or the planning commission in relation to those plans.
Okay, sure.
Okay, thank you.
Is there anyone in the virtual audience who there are 930 cases not been called?
i do not see any answers mr chair okay good see everybody at 2 p.m
mr chair you're muted
good afternoon everyone my name is bill bergman and i will be chairing this afternoon
ZBA hearings. With me is our Vice Chair Ismail Shahid. Present Mr. Chairman. Our Board Member
Cheryl L. Gaston. Present Mr. Chairman. Our Board Member Tanada Graham. Present Mr. Chairman.
Board Member Michael Johns. Present Mr. Chairman. Our Board Member Taya Nguyen and I believe she
should be on any minute. Also present is our attorney, Hilary Emerson, and our Deputy Director
for Planning and Zoning, Kathleen Grady. Here's our virtual format.
The proceedings are being recorded. With your participation, you agree to be recorded.
The video will be available by contacting ZBA Executive Director, all in one word,
at phila.gov. For a court stenographer, we ask attorneys and witnesses to identify themselves
before testifying. If you're participating by phone, press star 9 to raise your hand and star
6 to unmute. To enter an appearance statement, call 267-270-5548. Leave your email address
and also the address of the property in question. And finally, the question and answer box on the
screen is not for testimony. All testimony or comments should be directed to our Deputy Executive
Director, Kathleen Brady. Let's look at this afternoon's schedule. Number one.
MI 2024-002-258-2315 West Cumberland Street. Mr. Anastasia, are you available? I understand this
This may be a contingence request.
I've been about to speak, sir.
Mr. Anastasio, I think you've already been sworn once today.
Just state your name for the record.
Good afternoon, Mr. Chair, members of the board.
Vern Anastasio.
Vern 2315 West Cumberland.
Yes, Mr. Chair.
The RCO asked us to return with some revisions in our layout, and that's what we're going to do.
if we can get a continuance today. Okay, thank you. The case will be continued. So MI 2024-002-258-2315
West Cumberland Street, that case has been continued. Number five, MI 2024-004-377-4902
Knox Street, that case is continued. Are there any other requests for continuance?
Good afternoon, Mr. Chair. This is Jason Hand. I will be your co-host for the session. Mr.
Anastasio has his hand up again. I have allowed him to speak.
Yes, sir. Good afternoon again, Mr. Chair. Vern Anastasio for 1427 West Diamond Street.
I am asking for a continuance in that matter.
What's that number, Hillary?
Four or five here?
Here it is.
Okay, I got it.
Okay, thank you, sir.
MI 2024-004-374-1427 Diamond Street.
That case has been continued.
Thank you.
Any other requests for continuance?
I do not see any further hands, Mr. Chair.
So our add-on list, number one, MI 2024-004-290-21 Wall Street.
The vote in this matter has been rescheduled to Wednesday, October 2nd, 2024 at 2 p.m.
The next two cases I'm going to do together, MI 2024-002-706.
MI 2024, 002, 706, 2141 East William Street, and MI 2024, 002, 707, 24, 2143 East William Street, I vote no to both.
Jones, my vote is no to both.
Gerald Gaston, my vote is no to both.
Tanetta Graham, my vote is no to both
Tia Nguyen, my vote is no to both
Ishmael Shaheed, my vote is no to both
We're going to order our regular list
Number two, MI 2024-003-921-323 North Preston Street
Alan Nockmson is the attorney
Chair, they will be coming back in as a panelist short
Thank you.
New members of the board, Alan Nockmson, A-L-A-N, last name Nockmson, N-O-C-H-U-M-S-O-N.
You swear or affirm to tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth?
um could you identify your client in relationship to the property yeah my clients are rue and jenny
lee or lie the owners of the property our vice chair has a few questions sir
good afternoon council do you agree to weigh the reading of the refuse or stipulate to its accuracy
i do have you emailed them all the required documents and exhibits that's needed to
proceed with this case five days in advance of this hearing uh yes we have thank you council
so please proceed and share your screen. Thank you.
Councilor, we have a letter of unanimous support from the West Poulton Saunders RCO.
Yes, we do, Mr. Chair.
So this is an interesting matter at 323 North Preston Street.
This property was advertised as a duplex.
There's actually active rental licenses under the former owners as a duplex.
My client tried to get a rental license after they purchased the property to get a rental license for two units.
They were denied. And we don't understand why.
So rather than, you know, fight it and spend months upon months like maybe getting the rental licenses without this process, my clients just hired me to just do this process.
So we're not making any changes at all.
This has been a duplex since 2009. And like I said, according to public records, which will show it had a rental license with the previous owner that had no lack of activity.
So we'll review the notice of refusal and then a letter of support from the West Palatin Sounders Park RCO.
You'll see it was a very well attended meeting in support in their letter of support.
They even indicate that this has been a legal duplex since 2009.
Then I'll also show you the rental license, which is a matter of public record, which shows it as a duplex, two rental licenses.
Then you'll also see the fact that, I guess the Zoni may have changed on this block, but we were RM1, but now it's RSA 5.
So there's a number of what's currently RSA 5 properties, which are multifamily in nature, and we'll just show you that as well.
The Redfin listing where my client purchased a property shows that it was advertised as multifamily, and that's what they purchased it as.
Maps of the area, photographs of the property.
We created simple floor plans for our clients.
Nothing's changed.
Everything that is there today was there when my clients purchased the property, but we'll show you just basic floor plans.
And then the RCO meeting notice.
Again, I believe there was around 20 people that attended that meeting unanimously in support of this matter.
D to the property, showing that Rue and Jenny Lai are the owners of the property.
And then finally, our certificate of tax clearance, showing that my clients do not owe any real estate taxes on account of this property.
Notice of refusal.
So this is an RSA 5 property.
I think in name only.
It has a long multifamily history.
Since 2009, it's been used as a duplex, and it's a large lot.
Nevertheless, it's 1,602-square-foot lot.
Letter of support.
So it was actually 25 people who unanimously supported it.
19 members of the community, as well as all six board members of the community group,
brought in support.
And then in the letter of support, they said that we support it.
There's an active rental license in place, and the property has been used as a two-family dwelling since approximately 2009, and we purchased it this way.
So, rental license showing that this isn't, well, now it's inactive, but it was inactive for some time.
So, rental license showing that this isn't, well, now it's.
I guess it's inactive because when my client purchased it, then the old owner didn't continue that rental license, but it was an active rental license.
The 300 block of North Preston Street, where we're at, if you can see, we're number one and highlighted and we're RSA 5.
But there are 10 other instances of RSA 5 properties, which are also multifamily in nature.
So it's not out of character to have multifamily on North Preston Street, or at least the 300 block.
And then here's some pictures of some of those properties, 318 North Preston Street, 319 and 21 North Preston Street, 322 North Preston Street, 324 North Preston Street, 325 North Preston Street, 326 North Preston Street, 327 and 329 North Preston Street, 330 North Preston Street.
And then the advertisement as well for this listing where my client purchased the property, but you can see it was advertised as multifamily.
And then maps of the area again, while our block is yellow in RSA 5, we do have a lot of instances of multifamily use, but then we're also near a lot of multifamily zoning classifications like RM1 and CMX2.
So not out of character to have multifamily nearby.
We're not only a few blocks away from Lancaster Avenue, which is a commercial corridor.
And then as you can see here, this is where Lancaster intersects.
So it's a few block walk.
But, you know, and then we're also close to Market Street as well, which is a commercial corridor.
And then photographs of the property.
This is the front of the property.
This is the property in 2009.
So nothing's really changed here.
You'll see the multiple meters in 2009.
for this property so it's three electric meters so one for each unit and probably one for
the common area and then this is our proof of posting for today's hearing our orange notice
posting which we posted and then this is north prescient street to the right of the property
to the left of the property and then these are the meters that currently exist there
and you can see the multiple mailboxes as well for the property
and then the multiple hot water heaters
and the multiple gas meters.
And then our plans and drawings are very simple.
You walk on the porch, you make a right,
you get into unit number one,
which has a living room, kitchen, bathroom, bedroom,
and another bedroom.
And then they have access to the basement
where the washer and dryer is.
Instead of going to the right in the vestibule area,
you go up a flight of steps.
It's a multi-level unit up there. You hit the landing, you have the kitchen, the living room, one bedroom, a bath, and then you go up a flight of steps and there's two more bedrooms and another bathroom as well as washer and dryer.
RCO meeting notice, we met on September 5th at 7 p.m.
We sent out that notice by U.S. Postal Service.
We then got a certificate of mailing.
We took the notice as well as proof of mailing, and we attached it to an email to the coordinating RCO and all relevant parties,
letting them know that we sent this notice to 110 addresses.
Here are the addresses.
Here's our proof of mailing to those addresses.
Our application for appeal that we filed on Rue and Jenny's behalf,
along with the notice of refusal and the project information form,
the deed to the property showing that they own the property,
and then finally the certificate of tax clearance
that's showing that they owe no real estate taxes for this property.
I would ask that Jenny virtually raise her hand to be sworn in.
but i'm not to speak could you please state your name and spell for the stenographer
um i um i'm my i'm jenny's nephew i'm just going to translate and uh
after i do it um we can't tell alan we can't do that i can't i didn't realize they would
the translation so i mean she will speak i'm just gonna tell her what she needs to say
if that's okay um i don't i'm not sure that we can do that alan have you talked to her
yeah we have talked to her we've prepped her for this i didn't realize that i mean
all right and alan as an officer of the court we'll take your testimony instead of i appreciate
it. Thank you. Thank you. Questions from the board? Questions or comments from our attorney?
Not at this time, Mr. Chair. Questions or comments from the virtual audience?
Are there comments from the virtual audience?
Yes, sure.
I have a hand up from Strawberry Mansion Community Concerns.
I have allowed them to speak.
I know.
Sorry.
Sorry.
That's okay.
That's okay.
Yeah, I knew that.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Planning Commission.
This is Ron Bednar, City Planning.
First name Ron, R-O-N.
Last name Bednar.
B-E-D-N-A-R.
You swear or affirm to tell the truth, the whole truth, nothing but the truth?
Please proceed, sir.
This property is indicated for residential use on a city plan, given the documented use history where we recommend requested legalization variance be granted.
MI 2024-003-921-323 North Preston Street, I vote yes.
Michael Johns, my vote is yes.
Cheryl Gaston, my vote is yes.
Tanada Graham, my vote is yes.
Thaya Nguyen, my vote is yes.
Ishmael Shaheed, my vote is yes.
Thank you, counsel.
Thank you.
Number three, MI 2024-004-362, 6800 Martins Mill Road.
Alec Sokoloff is the attorney.
There's a letter of unanimous non-opposition from the Longcrest Community Association.
There's also three form letters from people on the block.
Good afternoon, members of the board.
Could you just state your name and spell for the stenographer, please?
Sure. Oleg Sokolov, O-L-E-G-S-O-K-O-L-O-V, on behalf of Behavioral Health Solutions Holding Company.
do you swear or affirm to tell the truth the whole truth is nothing but the truth
i do our vice chair has a few questions sure good afternoon good afternoon uh do you agree
the way to read another refuse or stipulate to its accuracy i do have you emailed in all the
required documents that's needed to proceed with this case i have and um i will be presenting and
hope the board will accept some additional letters of support that were just received in the last few
days okay uh the last few days did you send that over to our attorney already i have not yet the
package with the the original letters was sent but this is some additional that i just received
okay so we'll proceed with the case but we may have to hold the
vote but leave that up to the chair please proceed and share your school thank you mr
everybody able to see that we can okay wonderful um good afternoon everyone as i said oleg sokolov
on behalf of behavioral health solutions holding company i will let miss jackson when she comes on
give you a little bit more information about what they do but this is a mental health services
facility for people in the neighborhood. They provide various counseling services on site.
And what we are talking about here is a request to use the upstairs spaces for the purposes of
office, strictly office. They are not seeing any clients or any, I'm not sure if it's the
right term, patients, but no one other than their own staff is upstairs in the office.
For a little bit more reference, this property was previously an accountant's office, and no changes have been made by the current ownership or Ms. Jackson, who is the president of Behavioral Health Solutions.
So this is ostensibly a request to legalize the use that was existing.
As I said, no work or refit of the upstairs has been done.
So I'll just take you through the exhibits here.
We have Ms. Jackson and Behavioral Health Solutions purchased this property just in
March of this year.
here. These are just some pictures of the space we are talking about.
This is the property itself.
It's actually, as you'll see when I go to the zoning map, it's a unique property.
It is on a bit of a corner and abuts and is very thin at one side and gets a little wider as you go further down Martin's Mill.
This is just a view of the street in one direction.
One direction. This is the intersection of Martins Mill and Oakley, and then North Street. So we are right here. And you can see that, you know, this neighborhood certainly has this unique characteristic of these triangular-shaped lots at the corner of this almost four-way intersection, surrounded by RSA 5.
This is the intersection of Martin's Mill and Oakley.
our application for appeal
we met with the RCO on August 15th it was an incredibly well attended
meeting in fact even the the state representative who we had a chance to chat with
at the end of the meeting you know was very supportive of certainly this kind of
business and the neighborhood as to the value that it adds to the neighbors and really provides
a service that I think more and more in today's world, you know, we're lacking and we really want
to support as a city and as communities. And that seemed to be the takeaway that we received
from the meeting. We noticed 60 neighbors along with the RCOs.
And as the chair pointed out, we do have this letter released on September 25th for non-opposition from the RCO.
Our zoning posters hung at the property.
Our tax clearance.
And as the chair stated, we do have the three letters of support that were submitted along with the file from nearby neighbors, almost immediate neighbors here on the block.
And then if I may, ask the board to consider some additional neighbors of once again, immediate or directly across the street neighbors.
These are residential neighbors, in fact, that, you know, do support this kind of use.
If it please the board at this time, I'd like to ask Ms. Jackson just to come on and add a little
color to what kind of business and exactly what it is they do there and what they do upstairs.
Why don't you bring Ms. Jackson on? Sure.
They've been enough to speak. Good afternoon. Hi, good afternoon. Could you
please state your name and spell for the synod for sorry jackson e-l-i-s-s-a-r-h-j-a-c-k-s-o-n
you swear or affirm to tell the truth the whole truth nothing but the truth
i affirm please proceed counsel thank you very much um good afternoon miss jackson could you
give the board just a little bit more information about you know the kind of services that you
provide there just very briefly? So Behavioral Health Solutions is a social service agency that
serves adults with intellectual disabilities and mental health issues. We've been in business for
going on 16 years, and we've been renting property for about 15 years. So we're happy to be in the
neighborhood. Actually, I live in the neighborhood and have been in the neighborhood for 25 years.
So we're happy to serve our community. Most of our clients, 95% live in Philadelphia County. We offer behavior consultation, community participation supports, and in-home and community supports, which means that we take our clients out into the community.
So we use this area as a meeting spot.
So on bad days raining like this, we might have some clients in, but for the most part,
we get our clients out in the community, in their own communities and in this community.
So we have a management team of four persons, a clinical psychologist, I'm a social worker,
and two administrative persons, and we occupy the second floor.
the building is all when we moved in it was ready to go so we just painted the walls and
we moved our furniture and so it has always been residential I mean commercial administrative space
and Miss Jackson it's correct to say that you never you very rarely have clients or patients
coming into the space itself correct even in the downstairs even the downstairs because we're
the goal of the service is to get people acclimated into their communities so and
and you would never have anybody any of the clients or patients in the upstairs
administrative spaces right no not it's a long way up so
um and just quickly you you heard my testimony here my presentation here before the board
um and just quickly you you heard my testimony
i affirm yes did you hear my did you hear my presentation that i gave to the board
this afternoon okay and would you would you adopt it as your own yes okay all right thank you
ms jackson unless you want to add anything i have no no further things for you okay thanks
Questions from the board.
So this is like back of house administrative kind of use.
You're, I guess, processing whatever paperwork needs to be done, payments, if there's any payments involved or whatever.
Is that what this is really for?
so if i may quickly yeah we're what we're talking about is not the use of the the space itself for
this business we are just talking about the second floor office spaces which i'm displaying on the
screen and they're just for those four staff members that miss jackson just just mentioned
one of them being herself so it's administrative back of house kind of activities that these folks
would be involved yeah what what you're seeing here on the screen just desks and you know
coordination and and you know a place to do emails and and processing intakes and things like that
all right okay thank you thank you other questions from the board
questions or comments from our attorney hillary emberson
not at this time mr chair questions or comments from the virtual audience
Chair, I have Strawberry Mansion community concerned with the hand raised. I will allow them to speak at this time.
I don't think that's.
I'm not sure what's happening. I'm on my phone, so I don't know why my hand keeps going up.
I understand. That's okay. Thank you. Thank you.
Anyone else in the virtual audience?
We would be happy to take support from Strawberry Mansion as well.
I'm sure you would. Thank you.
Questions or comments from Planning?
uh yeah this is ron bednar city planning uh the property is indicated for commercial residential
mixed use on the city plan given the pre-existing conditions of the site
recommended crest variance be granted thank you mi 2024 004 362 6800 martins mill road i vote yes
Michael Johns, my vote is yes.
Cheryl Gaston, my vote is yes.
Tynetta Graham, my vote is yes.
Tywin, my vote is yes.
Thank you very much, members.
Hillary, we're going to do six and ten together?
Yeah, I got it.
Okay, thank you.
You're welcome.
You're faster than me today.
We're going to do six and ten together.
So number six, MI 2024-004-387-1401-66th Avenue.
And number 10, MI 2024-004-449-1401-66th Avenue.
There's a letter of support from 10th Ward Democratic Committee, and Brett Feldman is the attorney.
we're coming back in as a panel sir mr chair when we vote on this matter um if we could vote on the
cases separately because um if if they are granted there is a proviso requested that is only applicable
to one one of the cases sure thank you good afternoon uh mr chairman members of the board
Brett Feldman, Team 35 Market Institute.
Can you spell your name for the stenographer?
Brett, B-R-E-T-T, Feldman, F-E-L-D-M-A-N.
Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth?
Do you identify your client and their relationship to the property?
Yes, I represent McDonald's, USA, the applicant and the equitable owner of these two properties, of this one property for these two cases.
Our vice chair has a few questions.
Good afternoon, counsel. Do you agree to wait to read another refusal or stipulate towards accuracy?
Have you emailed all the required documents that's needed to proceed with this case? Five days in advance of the theory?
I have.
thank you council please proceed and share your screen great let me just share my screen
Thank you, Council. Please proceed and share your screen.
Great. Let me just share my screen.
Can everyone see my screen?
Great. So, again, Brett Feldman, I represent McDonald's.
This is an application to take an existing, vacant, increasingly blighted takeout restaurant, redevelop it for McDonald's with all new landscaping, stormwater management.
There are, as I think Ms. Emerson said, there are two cases here.
There is one related to the use and structures, and then there's one related to signage.
I've submitted two exhibit packages, which I'd ask both to be incorporated into the record and for ease of presentation, I'll present on both at the same time, if that's acceptable to the board.
Please.
Great.
So this is the application, as I said, to redevelop this location to a McDonald's.
passed up the exhibits one through 17, one through 19. It's the, it's basically the same
package for both cases. And with me today is Alexander Ortiz. He is the area construction
manager for McDonald's. Our project engineers, Thomas Kreibel and Justin Klee from Polar
Engineering. And I'll be asking them to present testimony after, after I speak. So I'll get right
to it. Here are the refusals. We have done everything we can do to eliminate and reduce
down the refusals that are necessary. On the sign case, we have two small refusals. One is for
a freestanding sign. There's a small message board on the freestanding sign that is used,
as we'll explain, to communicate to our customers days and hours of operation when the restaurant,
whether the drive-thru is open or it's the lobby because we have separate hours for
both of those features, whether there's any specials. But otherwise, the freestanding
sign is entirely code compliant in terms of size and height. And then the second refusal on the
signage is for menu boards. If you've ever been into a drive-thru, you know you've got your main
menu board. And then sometimes there's a smaller board, order board right before that, that also
has the food items. McDonald's, in its extensive studies for the best way to operate a drive-thru,
believes you can have two menu boards. We're seeking two additional menu boards, these pre-menu
boards. So by the time you get to the menu board where you actually order, you know what you're
going to order, and you'll move through this as quick as possible. It's just like going into a
restaurant, which might, before you're seated, they might hand you the menu. So when you actually
get seated, you know what you're going to order. That's kind of how these menu boards work.
That's the only relief that we need for the signage.
And then for the use, as you'll see, we're taking an existing building that's been used as a pizza hut, that's been used as a Boston market.
And we're going to be doing a little demo, a little additions, but reusing that existing building.
So the only relief that we need ultimately is we're adding two drive-thru lanes.
And the second drive-through lane is within 20 feet of a property line, which creates a refusal, which will explain the why and what we've done to accommodate that.
But that's the only relief that we need in terms of the use and structure.
So let me get right to the site itself.
Here it is.
This is the intersection of 66th Avenue, Broad Street, and Old York Road.
This is a heavy commercial corridor, CMX 2.5.
WE ARE SURROUNDED BY OTHER SIMILAR USES UP AND DOWN BROAD STREET.
TO THE WEST IS A SELF-STORAGE FACILITY.
THERE'S A DUNKIN DONUTS RIGHT TO THE NORTH OF US.
THERE'S AN AUTO BODY FACILITY, USED CAR REPAIRS INCREASINGLY.
MORE OF A JUNK YARD RIGHT ABOVE THE DUNKIN DONUTS.
ACROSS THE STREET IS THE CVS.
LET ME JUST GO THROUGH SOME MORE OF THE PICTURES.
TO ORIENT EVERYONE, HERE IT IS.
This is the existing, the restaurant that's now there, but vacant, that we're going to reuse most of this building.
And here's the Dunkin' Donuts and the auto repair facility, just showing, and then a little bit farther up, the CVS, the other auto repair facilities and auto service facilities.
And then there's a self-service facility right to our left, to the west.
And then as you go at a street view, this might look more familiar.
This is the Boston market.
It's been closed for a little bit of time.
It was a pizza hub previously.
This gateway location is becoming blighted with trash.
I KNOW THERE'S BEEN A LOT OF EFFORTS TO TRY TO SECURE THIS BUILDING BECAUSE OF PEOPLE TRYING TO GET IN THERE, SO WE'RE HOPING OBVIOUSLY TO MOVE AHEAD AS SOON AS POSSIBLE.
I know there's been a lot of efforts to try to secure this building because of people trying to get in there.
THAT'S WHAT IT LOOKS LIKE. THAT'S THE SELF-STORAGE FACILITY BEHIND US.
HERE'S THE EFFORTS TO SECURE THE BUILDING, THE SELF-STORAGE FACILITY.
HERE'S IT IN MAP VIEW.
AND HERE'S REALLY WHAT WE'RE LOOKING TO DO.
This is, you'll see, we're taking the existing building.
We need to demo a little bit of it.
We need to have a little bit of an addition.
And then we are going to significantly increase the landscaping.
We've worked for many months with city planning to meet the landscaping requirements here,
which were pretty extensive.
There'll be new stormwater management here.
They'll be repaved. It'll be new security lighting, new cameras here at the location.
And the biggest, you know, as far as for this case, the newest addition to the site are these
two drive-through lanes. And let me just say, we're using the existing ingress egress points
on 66th Avenue here. But these two drive-through lanes, drive-through lane one, drive-through lane
too. The restaurant right now does not have drive-thru lanes. We think that's a lot of the
reason why the last couple efforts have failed at this location in a post-COVID world. It's
absolutely critical that a fast casual restaurant that's kind of on its own location, not like an
inline downtown, has drive-thrus. So we have these two drive-thru lanes here. The reason for the
second drive-thru lane, we spent months and months with the streets department in order to make
sure that this location with the drive-throughs would have no impact on services on Broad Street,
no impact on services on 66th Avenue, and ultimately working with McDonald's expertise,
Bowler's expertise, Bowler engineering, and the streets department, it was determined that having
the two drive-through lanes would provide, we would be able to meet any capacity levels as far
as queuing in these drive-through lanes. There wouldn't be any impacts on the ingress, the egress,
the parking, the loading, the deliveries. So these are, you know, the two drive-thru lanes
that are proposed. As you can see here, we've added a lot of landscaping along Broad Street
that does not exist now, but there is a code requirement that a drive-thru lane, a staffing
lane, cannot be within 20 feet of this property line. And that is the only refusal that was
identified by L&I in terms of use and structures. But we do meet, you know, there's supposed
be a five foot buffer in landscaping we do and you can see there's significant increases in landscaping
here um turning to uh what you know here are the plans that the streets department approved showing
that as additional car queuing uh the two lanes that then merge into one um and i would i would
point out and we'll discuss this if necessary further there really was no other way to configure
these drive-through lanes um if you look in the crosshatch here there is a easement and this
crosshatch that goes from 66th Avenue right in the middle of our site through our site.
That's the egress ingress point for that self-storage facility to the west.
We, according to the easement, we cannot build over that. We cannot negatively impact that.
So that's why I assume when this restaurant was built 30 years ago or whatever it was at this
point now, it was placed in this position here. So we can't touch any of this, get anywhere near
that or change the configuration of the restaurant or the drive-thru lens to impact that to go over
that, which is why these drive-thru lanes needed to be where they were based off of all of our
calculations and the work with the streets department. Turning to what this will look like,
I will ask the representative from McDonald's to talk a little more about this, but this is
their most latest prototype with top-of-their-line finishes, all their new technology.
If you've been into a McDonald's, they've got the touchscreens inside. This is their latest
2024 design that you would see in any suburban area they tried to bring a lot
of architectural details to this gateway location and I'll ask eventually the
McDonald's representative to speak about that getting back to the relief
that's needed for the signage just just briefly here here is you can just see
here this is that three standing sign and they've got this small message board
right here um it's it's only i think three and a half feet high and that is what's used again to
communicate days and hours of operation whether breakfast is being served or not being served
where the lobby is open whether the drive-through is open again this is all
again this is all in an effort to make sure that this location operates as smoothly as possible
in an effort to make sure that this location operates as smooth
for ingress and egress people aren't coming in customers aren't coming in unless they need to
unless they really want to be there um and that that message board is is critical to that that
mission and uh it's it's a package that mcdonald's has used at other locations and then briefly the
pre-browse menu board which is this is right here this is the this is the the main menu board which
I think we've all seen if you went to McDonald's or any restaurant with a drive-thru and these are
these pre-brows that are positioned before the main menu board they're only 10 square feet and
that's again so if you're in that line in the drive-thru you'll have an opportunity to hopefully
make your selection so when you get to the menu board itself, you don't fumble like I do all the
time in a drive-thru. You order, and then you keep moving on again to make sure that there isn't any
impacts on circulation or any of the surrounding conditions. That is the relief that we're seeking
here. We have floor plans. This is a pretty small location. McDonald's is utilizing this to the best
extent possible but we have the floor plans here we can we can talk about that um these are the
approvals uh from the streets department that literally took months and months uh to make sure
that could you show we're having a hard time seeing that i'm sorry the floor plans we didn't see okay
Okay. Sorry. They're like schematic. Let me just go up here.
Can you see that now, Mr. Chair? Okay. That's the floor plans here.
Most of it is the restaurant, is the back of house operations and a small area here where you're
ordering. This is primarily a takeout location just because of the size of it. You will be able
to order inside the lobby, but there's also the drive-thru. Again, this was just the reality of
the location. You can certainly answer any more questions on that. The street department approval,
which took months and months, and ultimately with the two drive-thru lanes, it was deemed that there
wouldn't be any negative impacts as far as vehicular ingress or egress or level of service
on the surrounding streets those are all the materials this is showing mcdonald's actually
agreed to have a a special delivery vehicle a smaller delivery vehicle than you typically see
in order to make sure that they could and that's where all these lines are that they can make the
turning radius is uh in the in the in the parking lot uh to to supply the store um we worked closely
with the city planning commission i think you saw the landscaping it's a significant increase
AND LANDSCAPING, ESPECIALLY ALONG THAT FRONT AREA AND THE SIDES BASED OFF OF THE NEW, MORE
ROBUST LANDSCAPING REQUIREMENTS. AND HERE ARE ALL THOSE PLANS THAT WERE APPROVED. I'LL JUST
FLIP THROUGH THOSE HERE. WE ALSO WORKED WITH THE WATER DEPARTMENT. WE HAVE NEW STORMWATER
MANAGEMENT AT THIS LOCATION. EVEN THOUGH WE'RE USING A LOT OF THE EXISTING BUILDING,
THE EARTH DISTURBANCE STILL GOT US INTO A FULL STORMWATER MANAGEMENT APPROVAL HERE AT THIS
location. And that's the plans that you see here. Our ownership documents. I'll just flip through
this real quick. Our tax clearance with no tax balance here. This is the zoning history. It's
been a fast casual takeout restaurant for many, many years. And here is that zoning history over
time. The Pizza Hut, the Boston Market, and I think there might have been even other similar
USES BEFORE THAT, JUST FLIPPING THROUGH THIS REAL QUICKLY, OUR ZONING POSTERS, PROPERTY
WAS POSTED, I THINK YOU SAW THESE PICTURES ALREADY, OUR APPEALS, PROJECT INFORMATION FORM,
NOTICE OF MAILING TO THE RCO, WE DID MEET WITH THE RCO, WE ARE PLEASED TO HAVE A LETTER
of support from the RCO, the 10th Democratic Ward. We're in substantial agreement with the
proviso letter. We will absolutely, I know there are concerns from what I understand were mostly
around cleanliness and safety. As I mentioned, we will be having a full LED package for safety
and security here, a full set of cameras throughout the site, through the drive-thru
with the inside, the outside, near the trash storage facility. We will be having daily
commercial trash pickup. McDonald's always likes to hire in the neighborhood. We'd absolutely
love to work with the RCO and neighbors on hiring in the neighborhood here. And I think
our hours are relatively consistent with this.
Relatively consistent with this, we're looking to have hours in the lobby, 10, 11 o'clock,
and then we'd be looking for a little bit of additional hours for that drive-through,
which is consistent with many of the other uses in that area. So I think we're relatively
consistent with the RCO letter here. So with that, I'm going to stop. I'd ask that, I don't know if
there's any questions, but I do want to just briefly turn it over to Alexander Ortiz, the
construction manager, and have him promoted as a panelist for this project, if I may.
Okay. Alex, could you have any cop there in the virtual world?
I am here. Mr. Ortiz, could you please state your name and spell for the stenographer?
Hi, yes, my name is Alexander, first name, Ortiz, last name, A-L-E-X-A-N-D-E-R-O-R-T-I-Z.
Where or firm to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth?
Please proceed, counsel.
Oh, sorry, are you able to turn on your camera?
Let's see.
I don't see a button for it.
Is that uncontrolled locally on your end?
I'm sorry.
We'll have to promote him to a panelist.
I've already done so.
Thanks.
It's easier for me to see when I'm asking questions.
Thank you.
I just had to rejoin.
Thanks for your patience.
Hang on one sec.
Sorry to put the hassle here.
There you go.
Thank you.
Good afternoon.
Can you give your title briefly?
My title is Area Construction Manager.
And I understand you oversee the construction process for New McDonald's locations, not
just in Philadelphia, but New Jersey, Delaware, Maryland, D.C., and Northern Virginia, correct?
That's correct.
But you're actually a friend here.
You're calling in from Philadelphia area.
Can you just give the board, you know this site real well.
You grew up near the site.
Can you just briefly talk about your background in this immediate area and your understanding
of the site?
Yeah, so I drive by the site regularly. I'm from Philadelphia, was from North Philadelphia, went to school in Philly, went to Drexel for engineering. And I also worked at the Sunoco Refinery in South Philly. So I've been in Philly pretty much my whole life. Now I live just outside of the city in the Willow Grove, Abington area. And so we drive through the Broad Street and Old York Road route all the time.
And so I'm really excited to partner with the community on this location and have a
sense of pride because, again, it's the old stomping ground, I'll say.
So we're ready to work.
Got it.
I don't want to repeat everything as far as what this new location will look like.
But just briefly, I know safety and security was an issue.
I know landscaping was an issue.
Can you just briefly explain, you know, the McDonald's brought kind of their A-game as far as the site, as far as landscaping, design, architecture, technology to this?
Because as I understand, this is one of your first actual new location, not a rebuild, but new location in the city of Philadelphia in some time.
That's correct.
So this is an important project for McDonald's.
I'm sorry.
Yes, that's correct.
It's been a few years, but we're excited to bring in a new build here.
You know, McDonald's is right now bringing out our new prototype building. It's got the latest and greatest finishes in terms of exterior finishes that are high quality that will last, that will continue to perform there.
You have alpalic metal finishes, you have party board finishes, elements that hold up to the element, pieces that hold up to the elements.
And so from a clean perspective, they're easy to maintain, they're easy to manage, and we'll be able to maintain a beautiful building here for years to come.
With regard to landscaping, we want to partner with the community to beautify it as well.
So as you saw on the plan that Brett presented earlier, we are going all in with landscaping.
Our operators actually are evaluated by McDonald's corporate with spot checks.
So the corporation comes out to the location, does a spot check for cleanliness, for operations, for landscaping, checks for potholes.
They check, make sure all the lights are working and the operators are actually judged and given an evaluation based on how they do.
And so there's a lot of pride being taken these days in the operators and trying to score as high as possible on those evaluations because they give them the opportunity to to take on more restaurants and help them grow.
And this location, this location, if approved, developed, would be actually given to.
And this location, this location, if approved, developed, would be actually given to the Philadelphia operator who just scored presumably high on, you know, who operates locations, who has scored high on those metrics, correct?
Exactly.
Lately, what McDonald's approach has been is they're going to reward the successful and excellent operators, the ones who have a high customer service rating, the ones who have a high cleanliness rating, safety rating.
all of those items are evaluated in our spot checks.
And in turning to safety and security,
just, and this was, you know,
this is something we had a lot of conversation
with the community as far as security cameras,
lighting, so that there aren't areas of the site
that can't be seen by the cameras.
Just real quick on that topic.
Yes, so each location has dozens of cameras
inside and outside of the building.
And then covering the entire lot, all entrances, the trash corral or dumpster enclosure will also have cameras and LED lighting.
And the purpose, obviously, is just to let everyone know, the community know that, hey, this is a safe place.
But it also does help to mitigate some of the risks that come with, you know, with business, you know, in the city.
So the cameras help a lot. We've got dozens of those.
And then we also have LED lighting that is around the entire lot.
The good thing about LED lighting, it lasts a long time.
It stays bright for a long time.
And then it also has directional lighting.
So I know that what we'll be doing here, the directional lighting, we'll be shooting straight down on our lot.
And so it'll be very clean, clear, and bright, presenting, I think, a big improvement versus what you have today.
That was one of the requests from the community.
So I don't want to, again, beat this too, but the drive-thru lanes, which is really the reason why we're here right now, there is no drive-thru lanes.
The last couple iterations of restaurants have failed here.
As I understand it, having the two drive-thru lanes is absolutely critical to making sure that this location is viable, is successful, is longstanding.
but also that the operation of the drive-thru and the queuing is efficient, is safe, and that
there's no impacts on 66th Avenue, Broad Street, Old York Road. Is that correct? Yes, yes. The
drive-thru is critical for, obviously it's critical to our business, but it's also a key element for
keeping the drive-thru efficient, bringing cars in, having the ability to stack cars. I mean,
they're not going to be packed all day long. There's just specific times of the day when a lot
of folks want to come in for breakfast or a lot of folks want to come in for lunch. And we want
to be prepared to manage all those cars when they do come in. Having the second drive-through lane
allows for just an additional number of cars that can be in line. And this way, it prevents any
issues of the cars forming a long line, frustrating customers, blocking traffic. We don't want any of
that we want to get folks in and out as efficiently and as quickly as possible right so that's uh the
reason for requesting the second drive as far as the location these drive lanes even before i got
involved you were working with bowler engineering and the city on the design that we see here today
iteration after iteration after iteration ultimately this was the only viable option with
the two lanes because of this because of the existing restaurant because of the easement here
Can you just briefly explain, you know, kind of the geometry based on your experience, helping to design and construct what we had to go in this direction?
Brett, I think you already described that. I mean, if he can tell us something different than what you said, fine.
But, you know, you sort of like lay it out, then you ask him to lay the same thing out. So if you would.
Got it. Alexander, is there anything more as far as beyond what I offered on this topic?
I would just say that because of the easement, because of the layout of the site, it is a difficult site to fit everything in.
But I believe that we've maximized and done the best we can with what's available.
Yeah. And similarly, with the need for the pre-browse and the need for the on the on the freestanding sign, the animated.
Similarly, this is all designed to make sure that this operates as well as possible and that there's no negative impacts.
Correct. Correct. The pre-browse boards are meant to help be more make the drive through more efficient.
simple as that. Great. Mr. Chairman, I'm going to stop right there with Alexandra. I don't know
if there's any further questions. If not, I just wanted to- But could you tell me where the sign
would go on this diagram? Yeah, sure. Thank you. Yeah, it's right over here at the corner.
The corner here. Let me just pull up the site plan. I'm sorry.
The corner here. Let me just pull up the site plan. I'm sorry.
Right here. If you can see that right at the corner. There is a freestanding sign there.
That's there. I think it's almost the same size. It's just we couldn't reuse that sign. It's old
and tired, but it would go right there.
And again, it's fully code compliant
other than that element on the sign.
Mr. Chairman, if there's no further questions,
I just wanted to call our project engineer
just to adopt my testimony, Justin Klee.
He's the one that's been designed for a year.
Justin, can you just, Justin Klee,
I'd ask that you be promoted.
Thank you, by the way. Thank you, Mr. Ortiz.
Thank you very much. I appreciate your time.
I've been allowed to speak.
Hi, sir. Could you state your name and spell for the court stenographer?
Yes, my name is Justin Klee, J-U-S-T-I-N-K-L-E-E.
Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth?
Receive counsel.
Justin, you are the project engineer on this project for McDonald's on behalf of Bowler Engineering, correct?
That is correct, yes.
And you are a licensed professional engineer in the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania?
And you heard my testimony as far as the design, as far as the need for the drive-thru, as far as the need for the signs and the window and the freestanding sign?
Yes. And your testimony fits what I would say as well.
Okay. And you adopt it as your own?
I do. Yes.
Great. Mr. Chairman, I'm not going to ask Justin to go through this as well. He was the person that came up with this design, worked with the streets department and city agencies to make this possible.
Okay. All right. Questions from the board.
Is this going to be one of those double, is that what I'm seeing? The double drive-through with the sign in the middle?
yes miss gaston there's it's it's it's two lanes that merge into one gotcha um which is
you know let me just shrink this down here sorry yeah so it's it's it's two lanes that become one
so ultimately it's one but you order you order from the order would be in that middle sort of
section there yeah you order right here and right here there's yeah there's two menu boards right
You can order from either side.
And then you go into the one lane.
And then you go into the one that's very common.
Gotcha.
So I guess my issue is, well, my question about the security, you're adding all this
trees and shrubbery and what have you, and that also increases the, well, you said there'll
be enough lighting that this won't be a problem in terms of uh there being shadows or places where
people could um i guess uh i'm not sure what i should say here uh hide or whatever or spoke
around and that kind of thing yeah a lot of these trees and i mean i'm not the tree expert but a lot
these trees are you know you've got the you know the bottom of it and then they they canopy out
so um you know they're designed to be low you know the bushes are are low you know there's not
really places that people hide uh but we did we did want to make this as attractive as possible
right so i'm not seeing like there's any like fencing or anything it's just the
trees or to act as this buffer yeah yes yes yeah yeah um but it's this is really a gateway location
i mean it's it's it's a major intersection um and it was really important for planning and for
mcdonald's um to you know to try to make this something that you would they would be proud of
and you would see whether it be in philadelphia or any of our suburban new locations all right
Thank you.
Thank you.
Other questions from the board?
Questions or comments from our attorney, Hillary Emerson?
Not at this time, Mr. Chair.
Questions or comments from the virtual audience?
I do not see any hands raised.
Explain any, Commission.
This is Ron Bednar, City Planning.
The property is indicated for commercial mixed use on the city plan.
The applicant's hardship is not supported with evidence of unique physical conditions of the site that would prevent it from being used in conformity with the site.
physical conditions of the site that would prevent it from being used in conformity with the signage
requirements and the related drive lane standards of the code. Therefore, we recommend the request
of variance not be granted. So I'm going to vote these separately, two of them. So MI 2024-004-387-1401-66
6th Avenue. I vote yes.
Michael Johns,
my vote is yes.
Cheryl Gaston, my vote is yes.
Iowyn, my vote is yes.
Ishmael Shaheed,
my vote is yes.
And then I'm going to, is Tanetta here?
Did she vote?
Maybe we lost her. Okay, so I'm going to move
to number 10.
MI 2024,
24-004-449-1401-66th Avenue, I vote yes with proviso. Hours of operation closed by 10 p.m.
Monday through Friday and 11 p.m. on Saturday and Sunday.
Mr. Chairman, if I may, there's the letter itself. I don't know if that
captures the drive-thru component of this.
The proviso we have.
Yeah, we are open to the lobby being, you know, at the 10 and 11, like they talked about.
But the drive component, we were looking for some additional hours, which is consistent with the, you know, many of the, you know, competitors that are within half a mile, a quarter mile.
So that's, you know.
Was that mentioned in your presentation at all or you didn't do the hours?
Yeah, I did. I did mention in the letter itself that the hours, you know, we were we were consistent with, you know, the the interior, the lobby in that 1011 area.
But the drive through. And here's the challenge. We don't we don't have an operator yet.
So we're a little bit challenged with confirming exactly.
But the drive-thru, the hour issue was really a safety and security issue, as we understood it, and that the drive-thru, because we wouldn't be inside, some additional time would be satisfactory.
I'm not sure how we say additional time could be in the proviso.
Hillary, do you have any suggestions for this?
um i i think i think that we could say um i'm trying to think of its interior it's technically
takeout so interior dining wouldn't make sense um we could just uh we're fine with the lobby being
that i believe that yeah i just don't know if lobby is going to be clear um interior dining
the lobby the the the 10 and the 10 and 11 were fine the drive-through was a you know a separate
uh a separate item so mr chair i think if we just take the current proviso and add um
uh i don't say interior dining because it's not just the dining it's actually you can go in and
get stuff but that's being closed and i i know what you're saying about that so i'm trying to
think of the best way to word it yeah um uh uh let's see the rest order so i mean we could or
we could say ordering we could say ordering um after after those hours um orders only through
the drive-thru that might be the easiest way that would be great that would be great
MI 2024-004-449-1401-66th Avenue, proviso. Hours of operation closed by 10p Monday through Friday and by 11p Saturday and Sunday.
Driveway ordering will be allowed for a period of time after that. Is that okay?
that's fine yeah i i will i will adjust the proviso on the notice of decision just to
indicate that it will be takeout only after 10 p.m monday through friday and 11 on saturday and
sunday but just just but i agree hillary my only thing is is this good to two o'clock i mean what
what's the timeline i mean if i live in a neighborhood do i want them to be three o'clock
in the morning or
1 o'clock in the morning, they're still buying things?
1 o'clock in the morning, they're still buying things?
What's being requested,
What's being requested, Mr. Feldman, in terms of hours?
That's what I'm saying. He said he doesn't know.
We could say 2?
Is that 2 o'clock in the morning?
I don't know. Clubs close at 2.
That's what you're saying.
The bar and the club are closed at the same time.
I mean, McDonald's is the same as the bar?
Is that good or bad?
I don't know.
You may need some food on the way home.
I don't know.
We think open at McDonald's.
Mr. Chair, if you'd like to have further conversation on the hours, we could vote on this next weekend, and Mr. Feldman and I can be in touch.
so what we'll do is the second we already voted on six number 10 we'll finish this next week
and you can work out with mr feldman what we're looking for okay
sounds good is that okay mr feldman it is it is it is we've been trying to figure this out
okay all right thank you thank you for having consideration thank you thank you number seven
MI 2024-004-388-1601-49-North 20 A Street.
Neal Shklarov is the attorney.
Letter of support from Brewery Town-Charlesbury Community Civic Association.
And the art commission approval is required prior to permit approval.
We're coming back in as a panel goes shortly, sir.
Ms. Sklarov?
Hold on, he may be coming back in right now.
All right, he'll be rejoining soon.
Okay, thank you.
hey so we see him yeah he's been promoted but uh mr sklaroff
mrs sklaroff if you're still present please turn on your video
again mrs sklaroff if you're present please turn on your video
I want it. Why don't we do this? Why don't we move on and then we'll see if we can get him a little bit.
Maybe he's having a problem with his machine.
OK, so let's go to number eight.
Oh, there he is, Mr. Chair. He just turned on his video.
OK. All right.
Cancel.
Can you unmute, Mr. Skleroff?
can you unmute
he has to be having a hard time so
mm-hmm let's move the number eight we'll we'll call him again okay okay we'll come back to you
mi20 go out of the zoom and come back in again mi2024 004 404 2800
MI 2024-004-404-2800 West Cheltenham Avenue.
Tameka McCoy is the attorney.
There's a letter of non-agreement from the 50th Ward Executive Committee.
They will be coming back in as a panelist shortly.
good afternoon everyone hi good afternoon counsel could you please state your name
and spell for the court stenographer sure tamika mccoy mc capital k o y first name is spelled t-a-m-i-k-a
do you swear or affirm to tell the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth
yes could you identify your client the relationship to this property
sure um the client is um the consulting group and enon tabernacle baptist church
also participating in this session will be ian smith who worked as the architect on this project
our vice chair has a few questions for you good afternoon uh community had submitted a
um letter of non-opposition i believe could you just double check that i know there had a letter
no no letter says letter of non-agreement that this is what we have non-agreement leaving the
decision to the board okay thank you good afternoon counselor do you agree the way the
reading of the refusal or stipulate to its accuracy? Yes. Have you emailed in all the
required documents and exhibits that's needed to proceed with this case five days in advance
of this hearing? Yes. Thank you, counsel. Please proceed and share your screen.
Thank you. So I have here the application that had been submitted on behalf of the property
located at 2800 Sheltonham Avenue. Occupied on that premises is the Enon Tabernacle Baptist Church.
Affixed with the submissions are a copy of the Deed of Trust. Essentially, it's a non-profit
organization. It has been at this location since 2001. What is proposed essentially is a zoning
variance to affix a permanent gate for designation of access points, as well as to have on the gate
a sign that is illuminated and can actually provide notification. What I'd like to do
is go through to identify that when we submitted the information, it had been sent out to the
community members. We had affixed with the submissions all of the members that had been
the fact that there were 94 people in total. The notifications were made by flyers in the door as
well as direct mailings. I had also affixed a real estate tax certificate that shows that all
tax obligations for the premises at 2800 Sheltonham Avenue is fully in compliance.
I have here a copy of the notification that had been sent out, a copy of the notification
regarding the hearing, and a copy of the refusal. What is currently affixed at the property are
temporary fencing, which essentially has been there since 2006, temporary, but this is essentially
what's there. There are staircases. It's typical fencing that would be used around a construction
site, but in this particular instance, it's used as a perimeter. And the plan essentially is to
affix a more suitable permanent structure that is also for the purpose of beautification as well.
Um, this would be a long shot of one of the entrance points for vehicles at the time that
the RCA RCO hearing was conducted, which was on August 27th, there was a total of 20 attendees
and the voting essentially, uh, was to some extent held in observance because
was to some extent held in observance because the schematics had not been done to give the
residents a clear understanding as to how it would look and how they would be impacted.
Here we have the notices that have been affixed to the gate. And what was presented essentially
was a copy of these plans that shows the structure of the church, the perimeter, as well as some of
the photographs that had been depicted. What's new and what you have that the residents don't
that would shed some light into the final project and how it would look is the actual fencing the
gates and how it essentially would correspond with what's required by the code. We know that
the code requires 50 cent opaqueness, this gate essentially would allow for you to be able to see
right through. It would essentially fit the aesthetic of the building. It would be suited
in such a way that there's posts so that it could be a sturdy structure as it wraps around the
perimeter of the property. The variance essentially seeks to have the height as well as the setback
address, and that's why we are making this application here today. Part of the fencing
structure also talks about a sign that would enable for the community to see actually what's
going on with the church. So the church has, for example, a football team, and it would be able to
announce, you know, Saturday game from 1 p.m. to 2 p.m. And we know that kids who are engaged
in these kinds of extracurricular activities are not as likely to find themselves up in criminal
conduct, are more likely to matriculate to college, and it is actually activities that
bring the community together, whether or not they are a member of the church. It's actually open to
the public some of the activities that they have. Other things that would be posted on this sign,
for example, would be days that people can come in and vote or days that they could register for
early voting, things like that. They would also affix information that would be helpful to the
community in terms of how they could get, for example, Thanksgiving turkey giveaways and things
of that nature. So people who are passing by would be able to see it. This also was not available to
the residents at the time of the RCO meeting, but I think could set some light in terms of the 45
degree angle for which the sign, which is illuminated, would be positioned so as to not
have a impact on any of the area residents, but at the same time, be able to serve as a notification
arm for things that are happening in the community. This would be, again, looking onto how the sign
would appear in correlation with the gate. So it wouldn't necessarily stand out. It would
essentially be the same height. There would be, as I said, a software that comes with the program
that would allow the operation to, number one, control the dimness. Number two, control the
information. Number two, control how the information scroll, how slowly it would scroll.
And the operation of those signs would essentially be from dusk, from dawn to dusk.
So essentially, the lighting could be controlled depending on what the sun intensity is during the course of the day.
And it could be essentially automated by virtue of a software program that would be integrated within it.
As I said, it would add beautification to the area because what they have there now and what had been approved through a similar zoning process such as this is this temporary fencing.
So what this would do is essentially add a permanent solution to that temporary fix.
And the permanent solution would essentially, you know, aesthetically be in line with what's happening in the foreground and the background.
And as I said, it's positioned at a 45 degree angle so that the residents wouldn't necessarily have disturbance with any notices that would be mentioned on any of the signage.
So essentially, these renderings, I think, would have contributed.
So essentially, these renderings, I think, would have contributed significantly to an understanding as to what the community could have expected in terms of what the final fencing would look like.
And I think this is helpful in addressing the concerns that had been expressed during the course of the 50th Ward.
Even without those renderings, the same amount of people was in support as was opposed.
But again, they wanted to abstain so that the board could have the full opportunity
to see the renderings, which at that time had not been complete.
With that, I would like to have Mr. Ian Smith brought into the meeting.
That's on how I used to fence.
let's see here
i believe we can have mr ian kind of address sure okay thank you
do we see his hand would you please allow sure sir could you please state your name and spell
for the stenographer my name is ian smith it is i-a-n-s-m-i-t-h you swear or affirm to tell
the truth the whole truth nothing but the truth i do please proceed counsel okay sure mr smith did
you hear the presentation that was made before the board yes and you had the opportunity to see the
um renderings that had been presented yes
Yes. And one of the questions that came up is the height of the fence. I know one of the
renderings shows it in relation to people that would be walking, but could you please articulate
the height of the fence, please? The height of the fence is six foot four inches and was clearly
articulated on the zoning documents that were filed initially in order to receive the refusal.
okay and the fencing is such that um more than 50 can be viewed through the fencing is not a
solid fence correct that is correct it's aluminum the only solid would be the post is that correct
that is correct the brick masonry um piers or monuments um um breaking up the fence um on a
rhythm. Are there any other questions for Mr. Smith? Mr. Smith, how long is, how large is the
sign? The sign is the equivalent of the same height of the fence. It is a monument. It's
sitting within a monument, so it's approximately, I think we're designing at this point in time
approximately like seven feet wide by about five feet tall okay thank you
questions from the board so uh did you with with the information that had been presented to the
board had you testified yourself would that information be consistent with what was presented
mr smith oh yes okay and so you're not you're not making many modifications or um adjustments to the
information that had been submitted correct i am not all right i would submit on that
questions from the board um did i hear you correctly that the renderings that you're
showing us now were not presented to the rco that's correct so we had the uh layout that had
been available but the actual pictures that shows what it would look like were not available at that
time it was not um finished yes can i can i augment that a little bit three of the six renderings
were presented um we weren't exactly we didn't expect that we were going to receive commentary
on the signage projection at the time and did not present um i think three of the renderings
that speak to the projection, but the rent, like the sign was presented.
So if we scroll back a little bit on the left-hand side,
I can identify what was presented to the renderings, right?
So that one was presented.
The next one, 13 was presented.
14 was presented.
This was not presented.
All right.
And this was not presented.
and the last one was not presented
okay so
so the rco didn't see everything that we're seeing
correct not not in its completeness correct okay
correct not not in its completeness correct okay so um the question is um was there any
um discussion of going back to the rco when you had a more complete package to show them
well because portions of it was and it was discussed they had an idea as to what it was
It's just we were able to augment that with additional information.
It's not different from what they had.
Well, let me ask this.
After the meeting, you did send a letter to the RCO as a follow-up, right?
Why don't you talk about the letter that was sent to the RCO?
So there was a letter sent to the RCO that essentially addressed things that came up by virtue of what was discussed in the meeting, what the signage would be, information that we were able to gather regarding the software that would control the signage.
And so this is what I'm showing now is a copy of the follow-up letter that was essentially sent to the RCO.
And that's just so that there is continuous discussion between the community and the church so that everyone is kind of on the same page in terms of the goal and the final objective.
did the one of the that came up was the length of time that it would take to actually construct
the fence which you know it's kind of hard to gauge right now so as of as of right now there's
no construction that has taken place as of yet we're waiting for the approval in order to go
into that next phase we'll have to get a more um detailed um identification as to the construction
concerns once we kind of get to that but it's a necessary thing we have to have contractors come
out and actually do the work and it's going to take time to do that but the finalization of it
um will result in something that's more beneficial than not to the community as a whole
That's not my question. My question is, you had a meeting with the RCO. You didn't have all the information that they asked about or that you were ready to present to them at the time of this meeting.
so then there's a letter that was sent with that when you sent this letter was there an
understanding that there would be a letter and that there would be more information or did the
RCO vote um after this the the meeting so the RCO when they sent their information they essentially
voted to allow for the board to make the ultimate determination as to whether it was approved or not
so that's what the RCO responded with that would have been after they received the letter yes and
after the initial RCO hearing on August 27th so on August 27th the they didn't vote is that what
you're saying well yes additional information correct there was a preliminary and I can
actually present Michael Spain who can speak more to that if you'd like to hear from someone else
he's actually here yeah my only concern is that um if you know you're you're presenting us with
information that the rco didn't see i mean we you know that their their decision may have been
different or they may have voted differently if they had all of the information and i'm just
trying to make sure that there's not a notice problem here okay that's that's my concern about
If you can show us whatever, but if the RCO who is supposed to at least give a recommendation as to their view of a proposal and they don't have all the information about the proposal when they take a vote, it's a little problematic.
And then we would be filling in gaps where that's not really what we're saying.
you know supposed to do i mean so there had been no um material modifications to what had been
um material modifications to what had been presented it was information to clarify
um based on information related during the presentation and during the meeting so
clarification not necessarily modification is what um okay is the essence of what we're talking
Yeah, but sometimes, you know, when there's that kind of, there's an issue with respect to the information that has been provided or that there's extra information that maybe the RCO might be influenced by, then there's arrangements made for another meeting.
I mean, this didn't, you know, so you're, there was no subsequent meeting.
So there was no subsequent meeting.
The meeting that was conducted on August 27th was the only meeting that we had where we present some of the schematics.
As I had indicated, the top view, as Mr. Smith indicated, had not been available at that time.
So at this time, it is available.
Also, the rendering here that shows the view from Sheltonham Avenue, looking onto the 2800 block of Sheltonham, where Enoch is, had not been presented.
But what had been presented is the photograph here and the photograph here that shows the fencing in substance.
Okay. All right. Thank you.
so then i think it would should be mentioned that the board was at a split they were tied
seven seven with two people abstaining and that's when they wrote we we recommend that
we leave this decision to the board right that makes yeah that's what i understood so
So it seems to me the one issue that the community didn't get a chance to fully, I guess, opine on is the projection that the sign would provide.
And they provided to us this rendering that shows at a 45 degree angle where the projection would sort of extend in terms of the brightness for the sign.
And it shows that it really won't have an impact on the surrounding, you know, residential properties.
And it's visible from Sheldon Ham Avenue.
That's kind of what I got from your presentation.
Yes, that's what I'm going to inspire on.
So I don't have an issue.
Okay, any other questions from the board?
Yeah, I have two questions.
One, if we go back to the literal specific use denial,
One of them is because of the illumination, and the other is because of the fence being in the required setback.
So I guess a question I have, and perhaps either Ms. McCoy or Mr. Smith can answer this, is was there a consideration of not having an illuminated sign?
And if not, then why is the illumination important?
And then two, what's the prohibition of having the fence on the property line to avoid the denial or the refusal?
So, and I want to answer to that, essentially.
A part of the reason for the positioning is that it is still on the grassy area.
It's not on the curb where the variance had previously been approved for the temporary fencing.
So it would essentially occupy a similar location along that fence line.
With regard to the use of the signage, it's actually just bringing us into the millennium.
It's allowing...
Can I speak to that a little bit?
Because I filed the application.
The application is not for illumination.
It's actually for a dynamic sign.
So generally, dynamic signs could be some type of illumination.
But the goal was to provide updates to the constituency and whatnot.
It is set back within the property line a little bit,
simply because we were concerned about it fronting one street or another directly.
And the goal was to try to mitigate as much as possible conflicts
with regard to a dynamic sign affecting traffic and whatnot it would be on the oblique
um a dynamic sign affecting traffic and whatnot um it would be on the oblique it's not a direct
facing condition that would um you know fully distract but at the same time the oblique
definitely would um sort of reduce the amount of glare that would come off of the sign simply
because it is an led sign and they do operate in that way and can be attenuated further
and part of the goal was that the um the owners you know proposed that i know um there are some
expectations of putting it further deep in the site um at this time it wasn't considered but
i know that it's something that is possible thank you thank you
and currently there's no signs at all there am i correct correct any other questions from the board
questions or comments from our attorney hillary emerson
i just wanted to clarify in the discussions was the location of the sign changed at all
since the original plans were reviewed by l and i no they have not okay all right thank you okay
thank you questions or comments from the virtual audience
no questions at this time chair
planning commission uh ron bednar city planning your property is indicated for residential use
on a city plan or adopted district plan recommends no change to the existing zoning at this location.
The applicant's hardship is not supported with evidence of unique physical circumstances or
condition of the property that would prevent it from being used in conforming with the code.
The relief requested does not represent the minimum necessary. We recommend the request
Surveillance not be granted.
MI 2024-004-404-2800 West Cheltenham Avenue.
I vote yes.
Michael Johns, my vote is yes.
Cheryl Gaston, my vote is yes.
My vote is yes.
Tywin, my vote is yes.
Ishmael Shaheed, my vote is yes.
Thank you, counsel.
You have your votes.
Thank you very much. Have a good day, everyone.
Hillary, do we have any word from Sklaroff?
He was raising his hand, so I think we could try again.
Let's take a look. Number 7, MI 2024-004-388-1601-49-North 28th Street.
Neil Sklaroff, please.
Is this hand raised?
Chair?
Hold on, Chair.
I do see a hand raised.
Good afternoon, everyone.
I think maybe I got clicked on incorrectly, similar last name.
Okay, thank you.
Yeah, we're looking for Neil Sklaroff.
All right, let's move on.
We'll check one more time before we leave.
His hand is raised now, Mr. Chair.
Thank you.
Panelists, once again, please excuse the malfunction.
I think I have now areas. Here he is. My great apologies to the chairman and the board,
but also to my witnesses. Time is very precious. Unfortunately, I installed a new mask that's
supposed to help my carpal syndrome and it didn't do that. So I'd like to start. Why don't you
state your name and spell it for the sonographer. My name is Neil Sklaroff, N-E-I-L-S-K-L-A-R-O-F-F.
I'm an attorney with Dilworth Paxson at 1500 Market Street, Suite 3500E.
at 1500 Market Street, Suite 3500E, Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, 19102.
Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth?
Yes, I do, Mr. Chairman, and I also ask that in accordance with, I think it's Section 14-30313F,
if I remember correctly, that my testimony be that of the client.
Could you identify your client and the relationship to the property?
Right. My client is the school district of Philadelphia, which owns the property.
Now, hold on one minute. Our vice chair has a few questions for you, Mr.
I'm sorry.
Do you agree to waive the reading of the refusal or stipulate to its accuracy?
Have you emailed in all the required documents and exhibits that's needed to proceed with this case five days in advance of this hearing?
Yes, I have.
Thank you, Counselor. You can proceed and share your screen.
I'd like to be able to share my screen.
I don't see the icon for that.
It could be a green button on the bottom of the share screen.
Yes, I now have it.
You open your documents first, then push that.
They were loaded.
You're coming up now.
We have it.
I did something right.
You're doing a lot right.
This project for the school district is to install a digital message board at the William D. Kelly School.
Joining me this afternoon is Dr. Crystal Edwards, the principal of William D. Kelly Elementary School, and Mr. Steve Talbot, the executive program director of the school district's Office of Capital Programs.
I'd like to begin by thanking the Brewery Town, Sharswood Community Civic Association for hosting our public meeting.
And I believe they have submitted to the board its letter of support for this project.
Again, the project is to install a digital sign measuring approximately four feet by eight foot on the 28th Street side of the school.
In our cover sheet, you will see a mural on the building depicting the likenesses of President Obama, Maya Angelou, Louis Armstrong and Harriet Tubman.
You'll see an area of brick to the right, which is not part of the mural.
We contacted the Mural Arts Philadelphia, as well as the principal artist on this,
Mr. David Michene, who is also the Director of Residential Artists at the Mural Arts Philadelphia.
And they have no objection and have approved the installation of the sign.
Obviously, we have a list of exhibits.
The first exhibit is our Certificate of Tax Clearance.
The second is our deed.
The city of Philadelphia conveyed this property to the school district of Philadelphia in September of 1964,
famous for the fact that the Phillies began September 11 games up and ended one game behind
St. Louis, for those of you who care about such things. Our third exhibit is an aerial view.
As you can see from this, the school property is bounded by Cecil B. Moore Avenue and West
Oxford Street and in between 28th Street and North Marston Avenue. And you'll see in the
lower right across Marston Avenue is a parking lot for Kelly Staff Parking.
This is a view going north on 28th Street. The mural is to your right. Right past the mural
Right past the mural is the entrance to the school and then additional school building.
is the entrance to the school and then additional school building.
As you will see from our postings that I'll show you in a moment, this is mostly a residential area.
This is looking up Oxford Street right across from where the mural, the digital sign will be placed.
This is looking down 28th Street across from the intersection.
We posted a number of our notices and our notices of refusal. And again, these pictures include not only the posting, but what's directly across the street.
So you'll see there is some non-residential uses going on.
This is likely the parking lot I pointed out before.
And it's school in the background.
In addition to what I think is more residential construction ongoing on Marston Street.
And again, the parking lot.
We posted a lot of summons.
The next exhibit is the refusal.
We have been refused.
We are located in our M1 district, and therefore the size of our sign exceeds that allowable
in the zoning district.
In addition, as you will hear in a moment, the proposed sign is not only accessory, but
also for non-accessory use.
Our application for appeal is included in our exhibits, as well as the project information form.
This is a site plan. It's very difficult to read, so I'll just skip over it.
And here is another rendering of the sign.
As I said, there are both accessory and non-accessory uses for that.
If you could make Dr. Edwards a panelist so she could explain the accessory and non-accessory uses.
Dr. Edwards?
I have been allowed to speak, sir.
Hi, Dr. Edwards.
I'm here.
Hi, could you please state your name and spell for the court stenographer?
Awesome.
Dr. Crystal Edwards, C-R-Y-S-T-A-L-E-D-W-A-R-D-S.
You swear or affirm to tell the truth, told truth, nothing but the truth.
Oh, absolutely.
Thank you.
Please proceed, counsel.
Dr. Edwards, would you share with the board your proposed uses for the digital sign?
Absolutely.
Thank you, Neil.
W.D. Kelly is not only a hub of the neighborhood and the 19121, but we are also a homegrown community school, having only having over 20 partnerships, which includes Temple Phases, Handle With Care, Temple University's dentistry office.
We are full site, Grandma's Kids, the YMCA, and the list goes on and on.
We recently become a University of Penn Fife STEM School, along with foster grandparents
and many more.
Because we have so many programs that uplift and support the neighborhood, including being
a fill abundance food site, we have a full grocery store along with a farmer's market
on Thursdays in our lobby area, the community is always welcome. We need to make sure
that we have signage outside that not only list whatever activity is going on in the daytime,
whatever we have after school that stays and supports children and families until 6 p.m.
We want them to know what groceries are available.
We want them to know what fruits and vegetables are available.
We want them to know when walk-in hours for the temple dentistry is going on.
We want them to know what type of clothing is available, what activities are going on.
And this is for the entire community.
Oftentimes, our families do not have cell phones.
They do not have computers.
This sign is to let everyone know that they are welcome and what supportive services are there.
We know that our families are dealing with not only homelessness.
We know that our families are dealing with not only homelessness, but food insecurities as well as there's only one grocery store in a five mile radius of our school, not including any type of corner stores.
So we want to make sure that our community is getting the best support around mental health, nutrition, education, even with our physical fit nature for our young people and families coming from not only the Y, but the Philadelphia Outward Bound School as well for their outdoor education.
So as a hub of the neighborhood, we just want to have a sign that is informative, that our community can know what is going on and how we can be of service, because we definitely want to continue to watch the feet of the neighborhood so that all families are served.
Thank you, Dr. Edwards.
Thank you.
The bottom of the sign is about nine feet off the sidewalk. The sign is four feet wide, but the total brick area is more than five foot tall. And there's another four feet of wall beyond that.
It's almost on the intersection of Oxford and 28th Street, but it faces across 28th Street toward the other side of Oxford Street.
Just because it's in the record, there's the material that was given to L&I.
And there was also the specifications for the sign.
It should extend six or eight inches from the wall.
Dr. Edwards could probably testify that this is the best place in which to go through the wall into the interior in order to set up the computer controls for the sign.
And I think the rest of these exhibits are our letter to the RCO, our letter to the neighbors, and certificates of mailing.
I've only included two here. There were 50 because there were 300 addresses, and there are six on the certificate of mailing.
I'll be pleased to answer any questions from the board, but I think Dr. Edwards' testimony demonstrates how important and needy this sign is for the community.
Questions from the board?
A couple questions. Is it just one sign or are there two signs, one on each street?
One sign.
So it's just one sign facing the one street. Yes. Okay. And how is the sign going to be protected from vandalism?
Well, I don't want to speak to, because we never do speak about the security at a school district property. If Dr. Edwards wants to add anything, she's certainly free to do so.
Okay. The question was about vandalism of the sign?
yeah okay so the sign um as neil stated it is nine feet off the ground but it is in direct sight
of cameras um from the the um entrance of the school um and that has to be about 20 feet off
of the ground. So if there is any ill-mannered nature going on with that sign, we'll be able
to see that and address it immediately. But because just of the nature of what we do at
W.D. Kelly, that is not something that is common on the outside of our building.
uh i didn't see any graffiti um on on the building um i think there was a small amount
on the north um mansford side but other than that you know somebody throws a rock you know what i
Yeah, and that is very rare, but I know that Steve is on the call as well.
But I know that Steve is on the call as well, but the district takes care of the maintenance and whatnot so that it does not get, you know, destroyed in any way or manipulated in any way and, you know, becomes an eyesore.
Thank you.
You're welcome. Thank you.
Any other questions from the board?
Neil, do you want Steve to come on
and describe what he's
putting up? Steve, would you like
to add to my description of the sign?
Would you elevate him as a panelist?
Steve?
Excuse me,
what is the last name?
Talbot.
Okay, they have been allowed to speak.
Please state your name and spell for the stenographer.
My name is Steve, S-T-E-V-E, Talbot, T-A-L-B-O-T-T.
I am the Executive Program Director for the Office of Capital Programs at the school district.
We're affirmed to tell the truth, the whole truth, nothing but the truth.
Please proceed, counsel.
So, Steve, could you describe the sign and add your testimony to anything you've heard so far in this hearing?
Sure. It is a four foot by eight foot LED light emitting diode type sign in an aluminum framed case.
It will be mounted nine feet above the sidewalk elevation, which I would agree with Dr. Edwards' testimony that the height of the sign will deter from vandalism to a certain extent.
And there are also closed-circuit TV cameras that are in view of the sign itself.
It will be mounted right to the masonry facade of the building.
The electrical feed for that sign will will extend through the wall behind the sign.
And so it will be powered with 120 volt power.
And then it will also have a low voltage connection to a computer that will be located in the main office of the school.
So Dr. Edwards and her staff will be able to control the messaging that is provided on the sign.
are there any other questions from the board
questions or comments from our attorney hillary emerson
not at this time mr chair since your comments from the virtual audience
do not see any further answers the chair planning commission
So Ron Bednar, City Planning. Property is currently indicated residential on the city plan. Given the physical site conditions, we recommend the request of variance be granted.
Thank you. MI 2024-004-388-1601-49 North 28th Street. I vote yes.
Johns, my vote is yes.
Cheryl Gaston, my vote is yes.
Tanetta Graham, my vote is yes.
Iowen, my vote is yes.
Ishmael Shaheed, my vote is yes.
Thank you, Mr. Sklarov.
Thank you, and thank you for your courtesies.
Have a great day.
Number nine, MI 2024, 004-446-6602 North 7th Street.
Alan Ockamson is the attorney.
There's a letter of unanimous opposition 46-0 from the Oak Lane Community Action Association.
Hi, Mr. Nockmson. You've been already sworn. Just state your name, please.
Alan Nockmson.
Could you identify your client, the relationship to this property?
Oh, yes. My clients are Martin Campbell and Maricela Torres, the owners of the property. And in the virtual audience is Maricela Torres, who's going to adopt my testimony as her own, and she'll be able to take any questions from the board.
Okay, thank you. Our vice chair has a few questions.
Good afternoon, counsel. Do you agree to waive the read and other refuse or stipulate to its accuracy?
Have you emailed in all the required documents and exhibits that's needed to proceed with
this case five days in advance of this hearing?
Yes, we have.
All right.
Thank you.
Please proceed and share your screen.
Thank you.
Just make sure it's the right thing.
I'm here to present 6602 North 7th Street.
This is an RSA 2 property.
We're looking to have a personal care home in this property.
It's a rather large property.
The square footage of the lot is 9,336 square feet.
And the building structure itself for this home is over 3,500 square feet.
So, you know, just to point out, this is a referral, and we'll go over the legal standard of a referral, but this is not a variance.
So we have a notice of referral.
And then we have correspondence from the Oak Lane Community Action Association.
So I did not handle the, you know, the community meeting. I've been asked to handle the hearing. I don't know what happened in the community meeting. It sounds like from the letter, maybe my client wasn't prepared to like answer some questions or provide some pictures or whatever.
However, you'll see this is a little bit different than our normal presentation, but it has a lot of the stuff that you would see from our presentation.
And I think it really goes to the merits of this special exception we're seeking.
I do believe this zoning appeal should be granted just based on the actual merits of the case.
Also, we have the Philadelphia 2035 plan, Upper North District plan, kind of leads to the merits of our case.
and we'll review that. Then again, going to the merits of the case, my client has numerous
certifications and hours of training experience, and we'll review that as well. Maps of the area,
photographs of the property in the surrounding area. We provided simple plans and drawings based
on what our client told us about the property so the board can see what we're trying to do here.
our RCO meeting notice it sounds like a lot of people have attended but you know from a legal
standpoint for a notice referral you know we have a certain burden and we'll talk about that burden
but ultimately then anyone who opposes this project then has a burden as well and they
must meet that burden under the legal standards that have set forth under the Philadelphia zoning
code. So we'll review that. We have our applications for special exception, the deed to the property,
and then a certificate of tax clearance. Again, my client, Ms. Torres, is online. I would ask her
to virtually raise her hand, and then she'll be sworn in. I'll have a few questions for her, and
I think her input may be necessary for some questions about the merits of this zoning appeal.
So first things first, you know, this is a notice of referral and this is, you know, this is our notice of referral.
And we're looking to change the use of the property to a personal care home.
Again, not a variance.
And, you know, the standard is pretty straightforward.
You know, I'm going to read it just so, you know, we can go through it.
But, you know, first, with specific conditions of use, the applicant shall have the initial duty of presenting evidence
and the burden of proof that the proposed use meets the definition for use permitted by special
exception, that all dimensional standards are satisfied, and that the application complies
with all the criteria and meets all the conditions applicable to the proposed use, including all
applicable use standard, specific standards. Then what's titled specific detrimental impacts on the
neighborhood, the applicant shall have the initial duty of presenting objective evidence
and the burden of proof that the grant of a special exception will not cause the following
specific detrimental impacts to the community beyond that which would normally be expected
from the proposed use. So the board has to keep in mind like congestion in the public streets or
the transportation systems, overcrowding the land, impairing an adequate supply of light and air to
the adjacent property, burdening water, sewer, school, park, or other public facilities,
impairing or permanently injuring the use of adjacent conforming properties, endangering
the public health or safety by fire or other means, and inconsistency with the, or inconsistency
with the comprehensive plan of the city.
If we meet our burden, then people who are in opposition must, they have a duty to present
evidence and the burden of proof that the proposed use would cause a detrimental impact
be would cause a detrimental impact on the health safety and welfare of the neighborhood
on the health, safety, and welfare of the nation.
exceeding that which is what we do normally would be expected from their proposed use
if they don't meet that burden then this board must approve uh this uh application for a special
exception so we did meet with the community you know my client didn't meet with the community and
And admittedly, they were not very happy about this project, but I think it's more about conceptually what they're not happy about this project, not, you know, you know, about the merits of this actual application.
So they claim that there's going to be congestion and overcrowding in this space.
We are limited under state law to have no more than five adults in this personal care home.
The personal care home is for people with mental disabilities who are high-functioning adults, nonetheless, who are looking to live independent of other family members.
And we're going to have two individuals as employees who are going to overlap for that 24-hour period of time that there's going to be someone there at all times.
So we have five bedrooms here and we have two people, you know, and for those five up to those five individuals and no more than five individuals.
And again, for a personal care home, you have to have a minimum of four individuals, but we're not going to have more than five individuals living there at all times.
And we have two employees who are going to rotate to keep an active eye on them for 24 hours a day.
So I don't know how it would be congestion, overcrowding in this space where you have a five bedroom house where you have at most five people living there at all times.
And, you know, again, in terms of the parking situation, we have a driveway, which will show, which allows for off street parking nonetheless.
And then the individuals, my understanding is the individuals who would be living there don't don't and cannot have cars.
So, again, those individuals will not be parking off the street or on the street.
And then the letter goes on to say that the impact on the public welfare because of lowering of property values and maybe some potential risk for increased hazards given this use.
There, there's no specific proof for this particular business that they're going to cause any issues with the public, you know, health and safety and welfare. And in actuality, it's not uncommon to have these personal care facilities nearby.
There's three that I see, you know, given my research, 1,006 66th Avenue is a group home for disabled girls, which is in a single family home classification like we have.
1020 Oak Lane is the Laurel Square Healthcare and Rehabilitation Center, which is also nearby.
And the third one that, again, within a block or two away, is 1115 West Shelton Avenue, which is the Tender Nest Home Care, which is also in a single family zoning classification.
So, again, not out of character, and there's nothing to say what we are proposing or doing would cause any harm to the public, again, the burden of the community if they challenge this use.
So they did notice, if you notice at the end of the first page,
I think they were a little bit upset with my client who didn't know better,
but she didn't provide any visual aids or interior photograph,
interior or exterior photographs or blueprints.
So I think that could have been something that may have caused them to be a
little bit upset.
But we're here today to show the board everything that we have.
Alan, before you go on, could you comment on the clientele?
There's a couple of sentences there about what the clientele they thought it was, but it could change.
Would you comment on that? Yeah. I mean, I'll ask my client.
So I asked her like what the clientele is going to be.
It's it's mainly autistic individuals who are, again, high functioning adults who can live on their own.
So I think that's what that's what she told me as the individuals.
It's not going to do with veterans because there's a thing here about they said veterans, too.
We can ask her.
She did not mention any bedrooms.
They did say that there are a number of these type of facilities nearby in East Oak Lane,
but that has nothing to do with the fact of whether this facility is a proper facility.
I can't speak to the others.
I just know that there's a few that I identified in my notes in researching this matter.
In my notes and researching this matter, they're in close proximity, but they're talking about facilities that deal with medical, drug and alcohol, short and long term facilities.
They're in close proximity, but they're talking about
We're not doing that. We're not like, again, this is not a rehab facility.
This is a facility for individuals who have mental disabilities, which, again, there's a lot of families who have individuals who, again, are functioning.
But, you know, they need a little bit of help and a little bit of supervision here.
We're not looking at anyone who has any drug or alcohol issues who needs to be in like a short-term or long-term care facility.
That's not our purpose here.
Let's see.
And then it says that, look, the location, you know, this type of facility would be better served in another area of the neighborhood.
Again, we're focused on this area of the neighborhood.
And nearby, there's three other instances of similar type of facilities here.
So it's not out of character. Now, if you look at the Upper North District Plan in 2016, not that this is apples to apples here, but that district plan did say that there's a growing senior population.
It has nothing to do with this, but that they're looking for assisted living facilities nearby.
So the Planning Commission is even pushing for some of this residential use to be more in terms of assisted living facilities, which is kind of comparable to what we're asking for here.
So, again, even the Planning Commission is proposing some of this adaptive use for some of these properties.
And then the certifications. Again, it's extensive. So last week or the week before, I did a review for a child daycare. We have the Philadelphia zoning code, but we also have state overview of a lot of these projects that we're handling, and this is one of them.
The Pennsylvania Department of Human Services had to review my client's application to see if it even met the criteria for this particular property to be used as a personal care home.
Again, if it didn't fit that criteria, she wouldn't have been able to overcome that burden from the state, and then she would obviously not have sought this special exception from the city.
But, you know, again, through a thorough overview of the Department of Human Resources, they stated that it has met their criteria.
And then my client, Ms. Torres, has been in the business for almost 15 years.
She actually has a home care agency at 5150 Ridge Avenue.
So what they do with that business is that she has workers go to people's homes to help them out, which is different than here.
She wants actually a home for individuals who can have their own space without their family members there, but they just need assistance.
But she's been in the business 15 years, and she has to take a ton of certifications and get a ton of certifications from the States.
So she has done over 200 hours of certification training for personal care home.
She's done 400 hours of education as well as part of her training.
And then I just wanted to give you a copy of all the certifications.
It's like 20 pages of certifications.
Again, that goes to, you know, the criteria for a special exception.
Is she worse than what you would expect of this type of use?
I don't think so.
So I actually think that she's like well-trained and experienced to handle this type of use.
This is training in 20 parts that she had to do.
And then maps of the area.
Again, corner property, 66th and 7th.
And it's a large, large, large property.
Again, the building structure is 3,500 square feet above grade.
There's a driveway along the right side of it on 7th Street.
It's almost a 9,336 square foot lot.
And you can see here,
it's like hard to see because I'm going to have to expand out
but here's the driveway which has the ability to have at least two
cars there and those are for the employees and again
there'll be 24 hour care here just trying to get out
And then photographs of the property. Again, my clients purchased this property in April of 2024.
and then photographs of the property
They're going to be doing some significant rehab work to this property, all as a right.
And hopefully this board grants the zoning relief they're seeking.
But they're not increasing the size of the building structure.
the keeping in its current configuration and the rooms in their current configuration.
This is the hearing notice posters my client posted well in advance of today's hearing on both
public streets. This is North 7th Street to the right of the property, North 7th Street to the
left of the property, 66th Avenue to the right of the property, 66th Avenue to the left of the
property. Interior photos of the property. And then just our plans and drawings.
Again, we made these plans based on what our client told us about the property. But the first
floor you open up, it's an open floor plan of a livery room, dining room, and kitchen. And then
the second and third floors have different bedrooms. So you go up a flight of steps.
There are three bedrooms on the second floor with a shared bathroom and a laundry facility.
And then upstairs, excuse me, there's, yeah, there's, yes, there's how many bedrooms?
All right, three.
And then there's, I think there's three here, but I would assume one of the bedrooms is for the healthcare worker who may, you know, when there's a change in shift.
But there's three bedrooms up here and another bathroom.
41 addresses were notified of the meeting.
The community meeting.
This is the proof of mailing of the community meeting notice that my client handled.
list of the addresses that the notice was mailed to and then our application for a special exception
the deed to the property showing that my client owns the property and she purchased it in april 2024
And then the Certificate of Tax Clearance showing my clients in good standing with the City of Philadelphia regarding real estate taxes for this property.
I would ask that Ms. Torres virtually raise her hand.
They've been about to speak.
Ms. Torres, could you please state your name and spell for the sonographer?
Yes, Maricela, M-A-R-I-S-S-M-E-L-A.
Torres, T-O-R-R-E-S.
Where or from, tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth.
Counsel, please proceed.
Ms. Torres, you heard everything I had to state today about your zoning matter.
And is it true and correct?
And do you adopt as your own testimony?
Thank you.
I have a few questions for you on top of this.
So first of all, I think you told me of this, you're limited to, or you're the maximum occupancy for residents in this property is five, right?
Is that correct?
Yes, it is.
So, and you would be okay with agreeing to provide a maximum of five occupants living in the residence?
And then, you know, not that we would need this, but if necessary, you would agree to a temporary variance of five years.
And, you know, again, can you just explain your experience in personal care?
Well, we currently operate a home care agency in Philadelphia where we provide service, personal care service, which includes housekeeping, cooking, cleaning, medicine reminders, and running errands, things of that nature.
And we just became licensed with the ODP, which is the Office of Developmental Programs, to provide services to the adults with autism intellectual disability, which is what we have applied for today.
which is what we have applied for today.
When I initially applied for the acceptance,
I only applied for a personal care home
and we were going to provide services
for the elderly and or veterans,
which is who we provide services for now.
But we recently received the non-contagious approval
in September.
So that is why we are now doing
the um the uh rehabilitation home for adult autism and intellectual disability
yeah and and again during my presentation i stated that you got certifications you know as a personal
care uh provider and that was 200 hours of certifications is that right yes okay and you
have also 400 hours of education as required for those certifications? Yes, and that's with the
with the ODP, which is the Office of Developmental Program. It's an extensive training there and
we complete it all. Yeah, and you have a degree in business administration? Yes. Right, and then
And as part of the running of this operation, hopefully at 6602 North 7th Street, you need two employees, you know, who are going to alternate for supervision over a 24 hour period. Is that right?
And then you're.
Oh, go ahead. Sorry.
No, go ahead. I'm sorry.
No, you're going to testify, please.
So we do get an authorization that's specialized for each individual. So there can be someone who requires six hours and another person that requires four, which we will use one aid and have them split the time so that we're not having two aids in the home at once if we can split it. But at most, we want to have two aids in the home at all times.
I get my question was which I was going to which I think you led to was like these aids also have
to be trained and certified as well correct yes okay and and you know given the amount of years
you've been in the business almost 15 years you have an inventory of potential employees
who can handle providing these services right yes okay um and then again one of the things I
I mentioned was the fact that you have a driveway for this home, right?
All right.
And I think it's a minimum of two cars that can fit one behind the other.
Is that right?
All right.
Thank you.
So, Mr. Chair, I think we've met the requirements for specific conditions of use in the Philadelphia Zoning Code.
I also believe respectfully that we've met the requirements regarding the fact that we do not provide any specific detrimental impacts on the neighborhood, such as congestion to public streets or transportation systems, overcrowding the land, negatively impairing light and air to adjacent properties because we're not increasing the size of the building structure, that building structure exists.
we're not burning water sewer school park or other public facilities and we have five individuals
who are going to be living at most in this property on the full-time basis and we have
people who are going to be overseeing them and supervising them um you know roundabout
we're not going to impair or permanently injure the use of adjacent conforming properties we're
not going to endanger the public health or safety by fire or other means and and this proposed use
is not inconsistent with the comprehensive plan of the city especially if you look at the 2035
plan you know they're proposing adaptive reuse of some of these properties to help the elderly
population through assisted living facilities thank you questions from the board
Ms. Nachamson, could you just, I don't know, you probably showed it real quickly on the diagram, but how much rear yard space is there? I know there was a lot of the front yard space, but can you tell me how much rear yard space is it?
Yeah, I don't think we showed that. I just made up a floor plan, but I do have an aerial view, so we can maybe see from the aerial view. And if not, I can always just jump on Atlas and then share my screen. So let's see what I got here.
Thank you.
all right I had that photo
oh here it is
so and and is if Ms. Torres is still on the line I I would like you know she's been at the property
So this is the building structure here. This is the driveway.
Ms. Torres, can you direct me and help the board understand like the outdoor space for this property?
So the yard is pretty large. I actually have a picture of it, but the yard is pretty large and it goes back and it also comes around the side.
OK, are you saying is it this way right here?
Yes, that's it right there. Yes.
Okay, so this is the yard. It's facing 66th Avenue. This is this base between here and the back. So from 66th Avenue here is a huge side yard.
And I'm assuming it's fenced already.
Ms. Torres, is it fenced?
It isn't fenced. We have the small trees going around, but it isn't fenced. However, that is one other thing that we would like to get done is put up a white picket fence.
thank you the questions from the board yeah question a couple questions you said there were
some other uh homes similar to this in the uh nearby
yes uh or when we investigated this matter we saw a group home for disabled girls at
1006 66th Avenue, and another facility called Tender Nest Home Care, which is at 1115 West
Shelton Avenue. Both, my understanding, are both in single-family home zoning classifications.
Mr. Nockmson, are they all the same regulations? I mean, it sounds like
you're talking about two different regs. One is 2,600, the other one is 6,400.
I will defer to my client, Ms. Torres, to explain.
Do you understand if there's a difference, Ms. Torres, between?
Yes, and it is two different regulations.
So you're visiting, and then 6,400 is when someone is inside of the house,
and you have to provide 24-7 customer care over them, correct?
Yes, we're at 64.
So the other ones in close proximity, are they 64s or 2,600s?
I can't tell you about the, I'm going to assume the one for the young ladies is probably 24-hour care, but I can't tell you about the home care.
Just because we have home care and we provide services outside the home, so I'm not sure what type of services they provide.
but i think the point was that the zoning classification would be of a personal care home
for those facilities which is similar to what we're seeking um you know again we're just trying
to show that what we're requesting is not have character from a zoning perspective
in the neighborhood alan could you have your client could you have your client comment on
what happened at the meeting i mean you got 46 votes against you could yeah so yeah so miss
torres i mean you were at the meeting i wasn't like can you explain like why you know you had
significant opposition at the community meeting um so as uh counsel um explained i wasn't prepared
i i think i just thought um you know it's it's a home a residential home to help others i didn't
think we were going to get a lot of kickbacks. I wasn't prepared. I'll be honest. I did have a lot
of information regarding the care that we will be providing. I did explain that I want to keep
the residential fill of the home. It's not going to be a commercial space. We will not be housing
more than five people. But I just think honestly that I wasn't prepared to have so much kickback
on it. And I do apologize for that. It's my first time doing this. And I guess I just went in there
really positive. And I didn't think that I would have some kickback. How are the individuals that
would potentially be housed there? How are their medications managed? Are they allowed to
what are the restrictions around their activities in terms of
What are the restrictions around their activities in terms of?
So medication is stored in a safe area.
So if you look at the den, we're actually going to make that the office space where we have to lock all the medication.
Anytime medication is dispersed, we will, the person that is taking the medication out will have to sign a log.
And any time the medicine is administered, we have to sign the log as well.
All of our aides will be trained and certified to administer medicine, so they will know that they have to lock the medication after use so that no one can get to the medicine cabinet.
And I do apologize. I'm nervous.
Does your staff, are the individuals that would be staying there, are they required to take their medications or are they just given medication reminders?
It will depend on the participants authorization. So if their authorization says we have to administer it, then we will have to have a time, a schedule for administering the medication.
If they can take, administer their own medication, then we will be giving them a medicine reminder.
Are there restrictions to the activities of the individuals that will be living?
In other words, are they free to go wherever they want to go shopping during the day, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera?
Or are they restricted to the grounds of the facility?
No. So there will be hours in their service plan that will allow for the aide to maybe go to the park with them. We have service plans where you'll see that a particular adult wants to learn how to cook, and we will have time out to take them to the supermarket, help them pick out the groceries, but they will be with someone and supervise at all times when they leave the home.
And do they have jobs or are they?
So that will all depend on the service plan.
So we can potentially get a resident that works for four hours a day and they will have transportation, which is a third party.
Come pick them up, take them to work, pick them up from work and bring them back.
So it all depends on the individual.
And where do you get the client that you're going to have living there?
And what's the usual length of a step?
So our client referrals will come from the Office of Developmental Programs and support
coordinating agencies that are under the Office of Departmental Programs.
um and there's the when i spoke to my analyst she said most times um they will start with six
months if the residents like where they are staying they can be there for a few years
okay thank you at the community meeting did people bring up an issue around uh saturation
of these types of facilities in their neighborhood was that a concern they raised that as a concern
not that i recall not about having too many of these in the neighborhood i do um know there was
one comment about um employees uh riding around in loud music or smoking during their breaks but
but not about a particular facility like this one
or home in the area.
All right, thank you.
Questions or cons?
One more question, Chair.
So it's a three-bedroom, you said, Alan?
It's actually six bedrooms.
And Ms. Torres, I just want to make sure,
since this is your property.
Six bedrooms.
There is six bedrooms.
There is six bedrooms, yes.
And then, again, just correct me if I'm wrong,
miss torres but you envision one bedroom for each of of the uh the individuals who would live there
and then i would assume that the other bedroom would be i guess for one of your employees just
you know if they need to rest that's all that's not on on on the clock it's not so much to rest
but if um there's a break um they can go into that bedroom now it should be another room for
an office for all of the medication to be stored correct yes that's in the den so the den um is to
the left um okay all right except for me
um all right um questions or comments from our attorney
not at this time mr chair questions or comments in the virtual audience
um yes chair i have a hand up from a michael campbell
i won't have him to speak
all right could you please state your name and spell for the court stenographer sure my name is
michael m-i-c-h-a-e-l campbell c-a-m-p-b-e-l-l you swear or affirm to tell the truth the whole
truth and nothing but the truth uh yes i do are you a neighbor no i actually um i am a community
health worker, I retired from the substance abuse and behavioral health industry, where part of my
charge there was working with recovery houses and different mental health houses. So I have
some expertise. And I also, my mother was a patient of Mrs. Torres through her three years
of Alzheimer's challenges. Mom unfortunately passed away, but I am someone that was fortunate
enough to have the services by Mrs. Torres' organization through COVID. So I know a lot
about her organization, her patient care piece, and I just wanted to comment if I could.
You can comment on whether you think this is a good project.
I think it's an awesome project. I think, again, I'm a community health worker and the idea of community health is to provide services in community as part of the community and just as an integration to the community.
I actually lived in that neighborhood as well, where the property is going to, the business is going to be at for about a year or so. So I'm familiar with that neighborhood. That neighborhood is not saturated with this type of endeavor.
This endeavor is on a corner house. I do think that it will be pretty much seamless if you have a patient capacity of five people that are supervised and managed by trained professionals.
And as you've seen, Mrs. Torres has the certifications. Her staff is trained. They're able to manage five people in that particular location.
I also noted here, just look at my notes here, that she's going to put a fence in the back.
So in terms of recreation for this population, they're not a population that requires a lot of recreation. It's a huge property. I'm quite sure that there could be activities outside.
I did not hear, again, that this population will be traveling or wandering in the community.
And I think that goes to when Mrs. Torres is getting the referrals.
She has, and I want to speak for her, but I'll say this.
He does have the ability to choose the type of patient based on, you know, all the demographics and, you know, the neighborhood, et cetera, to make sure that the person that's going to be getting the services will be appropriate for everything.
So I'm not sure what happened with the 46 to nothing. Probably, again, there was probably wasn't an opportunity to give them enough information or talk about, you know, the patient capacity, what actually was was going to go on in a facility.
So why don't we in other words, you're you're you're in favor of this.
I am absolutely in favor, not just from a business and patient standpoint.
I'm a community health worker.
Communities around the country, and I travel around the country, are doing things like this with patient care.
Thank you very much.
Thank you very much for taking the time to calls.
We appreciate it.
Is there anyone else in the virtual audience?
Yes, Chair.
I have Theodore Leakes with her hand raised.
I have allowed them to speak.
Hi, could you please state your name and spell for the court stenographer?
theodore leaks hello theater leaks t-h-e-o-d-o-r-e leaks l-e-e-k-s do you swear or affirm to tell the
Theodore Leakes.
Hello, Theodore Leakes.
truth the whole truth nothing but the truth yes i do are you a neighbor i live directly across the
street are you in favor of this project no i am not and i'm also the block captain of the 6600
block of 7th street you would you want to offer some reasons why you're against this project
I'm against this project because, number one, we have quite, it's quite few of the houses like that and similar to that in our neighborhood.
We had one, we had one about four years ago that actually a young, a young mentally person died because of a fire on 66 Avenue, I believe it was 66 and 10th or 66 and 11th.
and we last year we had a couple of people that walks down the block one guy actually
exposed himself to um a couple young ladies that was waiting on the bus stop on the corner of 66
and 7th I just don't think I think this I think it's a need for this type of place I just don't
think it should be in a residential area where we have children, we have grandchildren.
And I just don't, I think we are being overwhelmed with people that don't live in our neighborhood
coming in, starting businesses in our neighborhood. That's going to be unhealthy to us.
We appreciate you taking the time to call us and we understand your concerns.
Is there anyone else in the virtual audience?
Yes, Chair.
Claude Cornish has their hand raised.
I have allowed them to speak.
All right, Mr. Cornish, could you please state your name and spell for the stenographer?
Yes, my name is Claude, C-L-A-U-D-E, Cornish, C-O-R-N-I-S-H, and I'm the third.
All right, do you swear or affirm to tell the truth, the whole truth, nothing but the truth, sir?
So help me God.
Okay, are you a neighbor?
yes sir i am my address is 66 you don't think of your address but are you in favor of this
project or against it i am against this project you could you offer any other reasons than what's
already been offered yes sir i can and um thank you for the opportunity board members um i did
I'd send it a letter stating the reasons for my disapproval of the special notice.
Number one, congestion on the streets, which speaks to the parking congestion issue.
Yes, they do have a driveway.
However, that driveway has only one means of ingress and egress.
So any employees that they have, if you have two employees parked in, you have your third or coming in, someone is going to get blocked in.
Overflow parking, what they did not talk about was overflow parking for visitors.
So if their residents have visitors, there is no place really for overflow parking.
There's only one parking on one side of the street.
Additionally, at the corner, there is a no parking sign at the end of their property.
As far as impairing, permanently injuring use of adjacent properties, there's a lack of proper lawn maintenance and litter remover.
On that property, it sits on a corner.
Unfortunately, there is a lot of debris that is there.
there is also lack of maintenance and lawn care. It is very infrequent. The bushes and the shrubs
that they speak of that is currently the border of the home are overgrown into the walking path.
Additionally, from a public safety standpoint, there are uneven and damaged sidewalks and walkways,
the pathway actually up to the house needs to be repaired. So if these individuals,
not just the community that is walking around the property, but if these individuals are also
going to be walking around the property, that's going to be a tripping and a danger hazard.
The lawn, while it is a very spacious lawn, it is an uneven lawn. So it's kind of on a level and
um two two tiers um additionally at the end of the driveway there is a small
parcel of uh grass but there is a very big indentation in the land where there were previously
stood a garage and that concrete and all is caved in and there are no barriers
And that concrete and all is caved in.
And there are no barriers.
As they said, there are no barriers.
So if they're individuals that are in this home walking around very easily, very, very easily can trip and fall and injure themselves.
So you're against this project.
You're against the project.
Vehemently against this project.
And additionally, can I add just one very good point?
So they keep referring to the Philadelphia 2035 plan, and this being a transitional for older citizens, Philadelphians.
However, they were very clear when they presented the information in their meeting, which is why everyone has been such an opposition in the neighborhood.
But this plan, which is just being brought up today, speaks about older Philadelphians.
However, they have put in an application, and they may notice that they put in an application during that Tuesday night meeting, that they put in an application for 18 and plus, and that is what they're seeking to do as well.
So to me, that Philadelphia plan becomes irrelevant.
Additionally, some of the other properties, two of those properties that they mentioned are actually physical homes.
However, their attorney mentioned the Laurel property, which is more of a commercial facility.
We also have another commercial facility.
So these these the reference is not an apples to apples comparison.
Chair.
Cornish, we appreciate you taking the time to call us.
Jason, do we have any other hands?
Yes, we have.
How many hands?
there are seven hands right now okay all right we'll do the seven come on give me the next hand
valley ferrera i'll have them to speak please state your name and spell for the court sonographer
hi my name is valerie ferrera v-a-l-a-r-i-e last name f-a-r-e-i-r-a you swear or firm to tell the
truth the whole truth nothing but the truth yes i do are you a neighbor yes i am valerie we've had
a lot of testimony about this are you in favor of this project or against i am against valerie
thank you very much for taking the time to call us we appreciate it jason can i have the next hand
yes iris brunson with their hand raised hi iris could you please state your name and spell for
the court stenographer hello my name is iris brunson i-r-i-s-b-r-u-n-s-o-n right do you
swear or affirm to tell the truth the whole truth nothing but the truth yes are you a neighbor and
as you've heard we've had a lot of testimony up with this are you in favor of this project or
against well actually i'm a member of the housing and zoning committee of the rco i wanted to give
testimony on our report. I'll just be summarizing. Well, we have your report. We saw your report.
So why don't you give me just really quick highlights because we want everybody to have
an opportunity to testify. Yes, it's going to be very brief. The RCO board's vote is unanimous in
support of the community's position opposing the special exception for the property as a personal
care home. Among the community's concern is the lack of clarity, certainty, or guarantee of the
population of this dwelling. That's where I know Ms. Torres said there was kickback, but really
it was people who had specific questions and they weren't getting the answers. They did, and how can
you approve something when you don't know what it is going to be? So it was a lack of clarity.
It was said that it would be elderly with autism, but then the description of the population changed.
So that makes the community very uncertain about what's going to be there and who's going to be there.
And with that, it gives you a dis-ease in your own community and neighborhood.
So that's my summary.
All right. Thank you very much for being short and summarize this.
Next hand, please.
Kenyatta, leave with her hand raised. I have allowed them to speak.
Hi, could you please state your name and spell for the court stenographer?
Yes, my name is Kenyatta Lee, K-E-N-Y-A-T-T-A-L-E-E.
You swear or affirm to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth?
Yes, I do.
Are you a neighbor?
Yes, I live right up the street.
Are you in favor of this project or against?
I am totally against, and I think most of my neighbors are against it.
And one fact is, you know, I applaud her for all her certifications and all that.
But when you're dealing with the medication, that might bring undesirables to believe that there's opioids or some type of drugs in that place and cause danger.
That might bring undesirables to believe that there's opioids or some type of drugs in that place and causes danger to all the neighbors in the community.
So we're all against it.
They can just take it to another neighborhood.
Mr. Lee, thank you for taking the time to call.
Next hand, please.
Yes, Chair.
I'm Louise Kersey.
I have allowed them to speak.
Could you please state your name and spell for the court stenographer?
My name is Louise Kersey
L-O-U-I-S-E
K-E-R-S-E-Y
I am a nurse
Oh good, good, thank you
Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth, the whole truth
and nothing but the truth?
Are you a neighbor?
Are you in favor of this project or against the project?
Against the project
Ms. Kersey, we do appreciate your call
and we have several other people
but we thank you for your position
Next hand, please
next hand is salima davis i have another to speak hi could you please state your name and spell for
the court stenographer hi yes salima davis s-a-l-e-e m is a mary a-h last name d-a-v-i-s
right do you swear or firm to tell the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth
Yes. Are you a neighbor? No. All right. Are you in favor of this project or against?
I am in favor of this project. Well, for one, I have a family member who has autistic,
who is autistic, and I feel like they should be able to live in the community just like everyone
else and there should be again like someone like Maricela Torres who has the proper um you know
certifications where she can again provide her employees with the proper certification which
will allow and you know make a better community for everyone and just because someone has a
disability that doesn't mean that they cannot function in the community with other neighbors
Like, so I am in favor of it.
All right.
And I thank you for taking the time to call.
So we appreciate it.
Next hand.
Yes, I have a Yoha Grissom with their hand raised.
I have a lot of them.
Could you please, could you please state your name and spell for the stenographer?
Hi, my first name is Yoha, Y-O-H-A.
Last name is Grissom, G-R-I-S-S-O-M.
Right.
You swear or affirm to tell the truth, the whole truth, nothing but the truth.
Are you a neighbor?
No, I'm not.
Are you in favor of this project or against?
I'm in favor.
I just wanted to say one thing that, you know, as the young lady just stated before, it's really not fair to, you know, assume that people that have disabilities, intellectual disabilities or autism are bad people.
They're people that were born different.
They need help.
And it's not fair to people that may not have the family.
Thank you very much.
We appreciate you taking the time to call.
Next hand, please.
i have a kelly mcshane tyree i've allowed them to speak hi could you please state your name
and spell for the stenographer yes thank you kelly mcshane tyree k-e-l-l-y m-c-s-h-a-i-n
tyree t-y-r-e-e you swear or affirm to tell the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth
Are you a neighbor?
Are you in favor of this project or against?
I am against this project.
We have several other people, but we do appreciate you taking the time to call.
Yes, and if I could offer just a little bit more perspective,
on the same 6700 block of North 8th Street,
there was a facility that tried this and absolutely failed in the community
about seven years ago.
And there were so many complaints in terms of quality of life, double parking for the attendants.
And it was the, God bless, autistic, intellectually disabled community.
But there were so many mental health issues.
They did have to be, sometimes they walked alone.
And usually they really did need to be, have an escort.
The neighbors had to get to know everybody's name because there were so many issues that occurred.
It affected the local businesses in terms of disruptions there.
Ultimately, it was failed.
There were so many complaints to the landlord of that property that they ultimately discontinued their contract with them.
I also would like to say, as a realtor, there is no hardship.
This family bought this property for $300,000 on 6602 North 12th Street.
Folks are investing a lot of money in very rare single-family homes in this city.
Folks are investing a lot of money in very rare single-family homes.
It is a tiny, tiny community that really values the single-family home and needs homeownership and needs families to invest in these properties.
They are trying to do that.
So 6602 North 12th Street, they went through a restoration renovation.
It sold for $680,000.
Thank you, Rick.
$67,000, $12,000.
I know.
I appreciate that.
but right now we're concentrating on 7th street we appreciate your call and i have to get other
people on the line thank you very much next hand carnell kemp i have allowed them to speak
i could you please state your name and spell for the stenographer
oh carnell kemp carnell kemp please unmute and wait to be sworn in
Hi, could you please state your name and spell for the court stenographer?
Next hand, please.
I have Felicia Tecky.
I have a welcome to speak.
Hi, Mr. Kemp.
Hi, could you please state your name and spell for the stenographer?
N-E-L-L-K-E-M-P.
right do you swear or affirm to tell the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth
yes i do are you a neighbor yes i am are you in favor of this project or against
i am totally against it we want to keep our community residential and for our families
and so we can grow and create generational wealth all right thank you very much for
taking time to call us we appreciate it jason
we're going to hold it at that jason we're not going to take any more into that
could you please state your name and spell for the court sonographer
my name is felicia techie f-e-l-i-s-h-i-a-t-e-k-i-e
And I swear or do you swear or affirm to tell the truth, the whole truth?
Nothing but the truth.
Yes, sir.
Are you a neighbor?
No, I am not.
All right.
Are you in favor of this project?
I am in favor of the project.
And I just want to say that I do have a brother that is autistic.
And I just wish that he could find somewhere in the community that would help him.
A great community helps everyone.
Right.
all right thank you very thank you very much for taking the time to call us we appreciate
your input next hand jason next hand is david anchor i have allowed them to speak
hi could you please state your name and spell for the court stenographer
yes my name is david anchor d-a-v-i-d-a-n-k-e-r you swear or affirm to tell the truth the whole
truth and nothing but the truth yes i do mr mr anchor are you a neighbor
Are you in favor of this project or against?
I am opposed.
And if I can just briefly comment, I was at the community meeting.
And I think a key thing that hasn't been raised is that, you know, at that meeting, the number of employees was described as three.
And this meeting, I've only heard two described.
Additionally, the property owner and developer, which described having three persons, three residents in the home.
And now I'm hearing about a maximum of five.
I think a number of key facts have kept shifting and drifting throughout this conversation.
And Mr. Anker, we've run this type of business before, and she's unsure what to do.
But I think that's important.
All right.
Thank you very much, Anker, Mr. Anker, for taking the time to close.
We appreciate it.
Next hand.
chair i have two two hands up that have already spoken i don't know if you want to uh
no we're not going to take them back yeah anybody else no nobody else okay uh mr chair can i just
briefly respond if you yes briefly uh first i would like to admit uh my exhibits into evidence
So I move those evidence. Second, there was some discussion about we haven't proven undue hardship. As we know, that's not the standard. This is a special exception we're seeking. This use is conditionally approved under the Philadelphia Zoning Code.
We respectfully believe we've met our burden for specific conditions of use and specific
detrimental impacts on the neighborhood. Unfortunately, the community has not met their
Unfortunately, the community has not met their burden or the objectors haven't met their burden because they're talking about generally they're against personal care facilities in their neighborhood.
burden or the objectors.
They didn't address specifically what's wrong with this personal care facility.
It's, again, conditionally approved and assumed that this use is allowed.
And it's their burden to prove that there's something specific to the use that we're proposing that makes it unfit for this board to grant that special exception.
And just as a side note, the state oversees these type of facilities.
So, again, if there's any issues regarding the sidewalks, the landscaping, or anything in that respect, there's consistent oversight, even past the CO stage, that Ms. Torres has to meet those burdens. Thank you.
Thank you.
Planning Commission.
Okay. This is Ron Bednar, City Planning. The applicant has demonstrated proposed use will have no more of an impact than would be normally expected. We recommend the proposed personal care home be granted a special exception.
Mr. Nakamason, obviously, we've had a lot of testimony, and I really would like to take about five minutes next week to talk to the board members to make sure that everybody is real clear where we want to be with this, okay?
So we will vote on this next Wednesday at 2 p.m., sir.
Thank you. Thank you for your time.
Thank you. Thank you.
Thank you.
Okay. Number 11, MI 2024-004-454-6000, Willett & Avenue. Leonard Altieri is the attorney. Letter of support from the Southwest Philadelphia Consortium of RCOs.
They're coming back in as a panelist, sir.
Good evening, Mr. Chairman, or good afternoon, Mr. Chairman, how are you?
House, how are you? Could you please state your name and spell for the court sonographer?
Yes, my name is Leonard Alteri, L-E-O-N-A-R-D, Alteri, A-L-T-I-E-R-I, with the law firm of Claire Harrison.
Where or firm to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth?
Could you identify your client and relationship to this property?
Yes, my client is Jayco Enterprises, LLC, doing business with Snipes. It is a tenant of the subject property at 6,000 Woodland.
Our vice chair has a few questions.
Good afternoon, counsel. Do you agree to read another refusal or stipulate to its accuracy?
Have you emailed them all the required documents and exhibits as needed to perceive it as case five days in advance of this hearing?
I did submit the required exhibits five days in advance and supplemented the exhibit packet
either yesterday or Tuesday with a letter of support.
Thank you, counsel. Please proceed and share your screen.
Thank you very much.
Can everybody see my screen?
All right, perfect.
So again, Leonard Altieri, the law firm of Claire Harrison, representing the applicant Jayco Enterprises LLC, doing business as Snipes for the property located at 6000 Woodland Avenue in the Woodland Village Plaza.
Snipes is a German-based streetwear retailer with 450 stores across Europe and 400 stores across the eastern United States.
Their headquarters is located here in Bensalem, Pennsylvania. Snipes is one of Europe's largest providers of sneakers and urban apparel. Brand partners are similar names such as DJ Khaled, 21 Savage, and Philadelphia's very own Meek Mill. The property is located in the ICMX Industrial Commercial Mixed Use District. It is also subject to the Airport Hazard Control Overlay District and their Narcotics Injection Site Overlay District.
This is the view of the location.
Our tenant space is essentially located right here.
As you can see, it is set back pretty far from the street,
and it also has a Dunkin' Donuts, which is essentially obstructing its view.
Here's a better idea of it currently.
Again, this is our tenant space right here.
And what we are seeking this evening, Mr. Chairman,
is signage to be placed above the second floor windowsill.
so uh the applicant is proposing a static internally illuminated accessory wall sign
above the second floor windowsill of this existing shopping center
the sign that we're proposing is around 56 square feet the signage is
The sign that we're proposing is around 56 square feet.
The signage is necessary to allow motorists traveling along Woodland Avenue to safely and adequately locate the store while providing them enough time to navigate safely into the shopping center.
Additionally, the store's location, as I alluded to and showed the board in the first photo, is set back a good distance from Woodland Avenue.
And there are some obstructions in front of the shopping center that obstruct that view and make it a little bit difficult to see, which necessitates the need for signage a little bit higher.
Again, and this is just the sign zoomed in a little bit more.
We are here this evening, as I said, because we're located in the ICMX.
We got a refusal because we are not allowed to have the sign extend above the second floor windowsill.
We did meet with the Registered Community Organization, which is the 40th Ward Republicans.
They did send a letter of support, which I supplemented to the board.
And again, the wall sign will be internally illuminated and static.
It won't be flashing.
And if there are no questions for me, Mr. Chairman, I do have my witness, who's a representative from Snipes, Aida Bamford, who's a project manager and store design for construction, who can adopt this testimony.
Thank you.
what's her name again it's aida bamford bamford bamford yes
i've been about to speak hi could you please state your name and spell for the court sonographer
hi my name is aida bamford it's a i d as in dog a last name bamford b as in boy a m as in mary
and ford like the car swear or affirm to tell the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth
Please proceed, Councilor.
Ms. Bamford, are you the authorized representative to speak on behalf of Snipes?
And can you just give your title for the board?
Project Manager of Construction and Design for Snipes USA.
Sorry.
And were you on the call when you heard me give the testimony?
And is everything that you heard me say true and accurate to the best of your knowledge,
information, and belief?
And had I called you to testify, would you adopt that testimony as your own?
Mr. Chairman, if there's no further questions, I have nothing else for Ms. Bamford.
Are you done with your presentation?
And I am done. I would just like to have those exhibits admitted into the record, sir.
There are questions from the board.
Questions or comments from our attorney?
Not at this time, Mr. Chair.
Questions or comments from the virtual audience?
Yes, I have a hand up from Craig Melodosian, sir. I have a lot of them to speak.
Craig, please state your name and spell for the sonographer.
Craig Melodosian, C-R-A-I-G, last name Melodosian, M-E-L-I-D-O-S-I-A-N.
You swear or affirm to tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth?
I do, Chair Bergman.
Please proceed, sir.
I just wanted to indicate that multiple RCOs were present at this hearing, though it was, I'm sorry, community meeting that was sparsely attended by affected neighbors, in part due to the commercial, it being seated upon the commercial corridor.
Though the application is de minimis, this shopping center is of significant importance to the community.
It sits at the east end.
We also have a Snipes at the west end.
And I'll use this term with reservation, but the shopping center was savaged after the unfortunate and tragic social protests in May of 2020.
The center has struggled. What the leasing agent labeled as a refresh was actually significant repairs to the center.
We have Snipes coming in, sitting in the center of a center with significant vacancy.
We hope their high-profile presence will bring life back into the center, which will spread out to the corridor.
And the fact that they've made a commitment to put two stores into the community should be acknowledged, and we believe rewarded for their investment in Southwest Philadelphia.
Thank you for your time and attention in this matter.
Great. Craig, thank you for taking the time.
anyone else in a virtual audience
planning commission
it's from Bednar city planning
property is indicated
for industrial commercial mixed
use we have no objection to their
granting the variance
thank you MI 2024
004454
6000 Woodland Avenue I vote yes
Michael Johns my vote is yes
My vote is yes.
my vote is yes
Cheryl Guest in my book.
My vote is yes.
My vote is yes.
My vote is yes.
My vote is yes.
Thank you, counsel.
Mr. Chairman, I do have another matter.
I don't know if I can do both of them back to back.
I don't know if that's permitted.
One's the other matter.
It's 2250 Cotman Avenue.
It's MI 2024.
That's in the 330 list though, right?
Mr. Chair, that's number 13 on the 2 o'clock list.
All right, why don't you stay right there? Okay. MI 2024-004-469-2250 Contman Avenue. Counsel, just state your name. You've already been sworn.
Yes. So again, for the record, Leonard Altieri with the law firm of Claire Harrison representing the applicant. Quick Lube of Carolina doing business as take five oil change.
And there's a letter of non-opposition from take back your neighborhood with one enforceable proviso, use limited to oil and fluid changes and sale windshield wipers, right? Also, unanimous, a letter of unanimous support from the RCO community on the rise. Our vice chair has a few questions.
Have you emailed in all the required documents and exhibits that's needed to proceed with
this case five days in advance of this hearing?
I have.
Again, just like with the prior case, Mr. Vice Chairman, I did supplement the packet
either Monday or Tuesday with a letter of support or letter of non-opposition from Take
Back Your Neighborhood.
All right.
No problem.
Thank you.
Please proceed.
Thank you.
Can you see the screen?
Yes, we can.
All right, perfect. So again, Leonard Altier at the law firm of Claire Harrison for the property located at 2250 Cotman Avenue, representing Quick Lube Oil Change doing business as Take 5 Oil Change.
The property is located at 2250 Cotman Avenue, which is the location of this former Exxon gas station.
And I say former because the gas station has been subsequently shut down and is now demolished.
So you have an existing pad site that is currently at the property.
The property is located in the CA1 Auto-Oriented Commercial 1 Zoning District.
It's also subject to the following overlay districts, the use-specific standards, child care, family child care, Area 1 and Area 2,
the Northeast Overlay District, Map A, and the Narcotics Injection Site Overlay District.
What my client plans to do is to construct a three-bay, 1,442-square-foot Take-5 oil change
facility. Now, Take-5 is starting to break out into this market. They're very popular in the
South and in the Southwest. But what Take-5 is, is that it's a service in which the customer
drives into the building. They remain in their car the entire time, and then they leave when
the service of their choice is completed. There are over 800 Take-Five facilities in the United
States. Take-Five oil change provides a limited type of service consisting of the following
oil changes, windshield wiper replacements, engine air and cabin air filter replacement,
coolant and coolant exchange. The year-to-date 2023 average for service time is around 11.2
minutes with a high volume of 10 cars being serviced every hour. As you can see here,
this will be a completely new constructed facility. With regards to traffic flow,
the applicant has worked closely and in conjunction and in coordination with both
PennDOT and Philadelphia Street Department to have this layout that we show on the screen.
So as part of this development, we are closing two of the existing curb cuts that essentially were right here where we have proposed landscaping and again where we have proposed landscaping.
And instead, we'll only have two entrance points, if you will.
It'll be a right in, right out from both Cotman Avenue and Busselton Avenue.
The driveways are positioned to maximize the separation distance from the Cotman and Busselton intersection, which is located right here where the cursor is.
Providing both driveways, excuse me, allowing both driveways, both from Cotman and Busselton,
allows access options for motorists traveling to and from various directions.
With regard to the relief that we're seeking, and this is actually what the take five will look like.
This is our renderings.
One of the closer ones that one could see today would be in Jenkintown.
It's the old Glassman Subaru that we essentially just retrofitted or renovated to allow for the Take Five to work.
Again, three bay, you pull in, you never leave your car.
So even though we show additional parking here, this parking is essentially just for employees.
You come in and within 11 minutes, you're getting whatever services that you choose of those four that we provide.
uh in the ca1 zoning district
In the CA1 zoning district, personal vehicle repair and maintenance is expressly prohibited.
Now, the site itself, as I said, has been used since at least 2007 as a gas station, as is evidenced by prior zoning approvals that are on the screen now.
The proposed use, personal vehicle repair and maintenance, is a similar use and appropriate for that location at Cotman and Busselton.
We did meet with the coordinating RCO on-site, which was Take Back Your Neighborhood. They did provide a letter of non-opposition with provisives. That on-site meeting took place on August 27, 2024.
We also were in coordination or contact, I should say, with the affected RCO of Community on the Rise, which also provided us a letter of support.
And as they said, based on the responses to the questions posed, they are in support of this venture.
The applicants were transparent and forthcoming with regard to communication.
They welcome us in their community and their support.
One thing I do just want to flesh out with regards to one of the provisos in the letter from Take Back the Neighborhood, the coordinating RCO, is number eight, where it says no selling of parts except for wipers, fluid changes, and oil changes.
I do think it's important to note that we do provide air filter replacement.
I think that that was just something that was overlooked by the RCO, but I want to be clear with the zoning board that we will not be prohibited from selling or replacing those air filters.
That is, again, one of the four things that we provide, the oil changes, the windshield wiper replacements, cabin and air filter replacement, and coolant exchange.
With that being said, I do have both our project engineer and a representative from the applicant on the call.
If there's no questions for me, we can start with the applicant's representative, or we can start with the engineer, Mr. Joe Colucci, and we can get him sworn in to adopt my testimony.
Mr. Colucci, please state your name and spell it for the stenographer.
anything not to speak yes hi joseph j-o-s-e-p-h colucci c-o-l-u-c-c-i you swear or affirm to
tell the truth the whole truth nothing but the truth i do sir please proceed counsel thank you
very much joe can you just state your title and the business that you uh uh the company that you
work for yes uh my title is partner i'm with a company called development and construction
Solutions, and I am part of the engineering team associated with the plant production.
Perfect. And so you took my next question, which was you were the engineer record for this
application, essentially? Yes. And were you on the call when I made the testimony to the board?
Yes, I was. Is everything that you heard true and accurate to the best of your knowledge,
information, and belief? Yes, it was. And had I called you to testify, would you have adopted
that testimony as your own? Yes, I would. Okay. Mr. Chairman, I have no questions for
uh this witness if there's any from the board well why don't why don't we finish up with your
witnesses then we'll see what questions the board has okay you have one more witness right i do i
have the represent the uh representative ownership which is mr des roberts mr roberts could you
please state your name and spell for the court sonographer
i've been allowed to speak sorry am i uh am i unmuted there we can hear he does you're fine
Please state your name and spell for the court stenographer.
Yeah, it is Des, D-E-S, last name Roberts, R-O-V-E-R-T-S.
You swear or affirm to tell the truth, the whole truth, nothing but the truth?
Please proceed, counsel.
Des, can you just give your title and relationship to the applicant, please?
Yes, I am the director of real estate and development for Quick Loop of the Carolinas.
because we are operating as Take 5 Oil Change. I'm also one of the owners and a board member.
Perfect. And Des, were you on the call when I provided the testimony to the zoning board?
Yes. And everything that you heard me state, has that been true and accurate to the best of your
knowledge, information, and belief? Yes. And if I was to call you to testify, would you have adopted
that testimony yourself? Yes. Okay. And just one thing I want to just flesh out before I turn it
over to the board for questions i made comment a couple of times about the type of services that
we provide here at take five oil change can you just quickly very quickly explain you know just
reiterate the four types of services that we provide um yeah so we obviously we change oil
we change um windshield wiper fluids air filter air filters um and um yeah that's
change obviously yes all right and those are essential to the operation of the business
correct yes thank you i have no further questions mr chairman questions from the board
i have no further questions mr chairman questions from the board
questions or comments from our attorney hillary emerson um just briefly mr altieri um would it
just would a proviso because you mentioned the proviso from the rco wasn't quite didn't quite
compass everything um but if the board were to grant would it provide them to the effect of use
limited to oil and fluid changes, air filter changes, and the sale of
windshield wipers? Would that encompass? Yeah, I would also just
add in there, coolant exchange.
That's fluid, right? Fluid changes. I never
had auto shop when I was in high school, so
if that works, that works.
Right, thank you. Thank you.
questions or comments from the virtual audience
i do not see any hands mr chair planning commission run bednar city planning the
property is indicated for commercial use on the city plan or adopted district plan recommends
no change existing zoning at this location the applicant's hardship is not supported with
evidence of unique physical conditions of the property that would prevent it from being used
in conformity with the code, proposed single-story auto-oriented use with multiple curb cuts
is close proximity to a very busy intersection and is in direct opposition to a larger community
vision and rational planning principle for the district and the corridor. We recommend the
request for variance not to be granted. Can I just briefly respond to that, Mr. Chairman?
the plan that you see on the screen today was worked out in conjunction with the streets
department and again with PennDOT to take into effect the changes that are eventually going to
be coming down with Cotman Avenue and again this site has always been used historically as a gas
station I don't believe that a take five oil change that provides similar services that is
is that much different and I think it is a good use in this corridor with regards to Cotman and
And again, I just want to hammer home that the layout that we have here has been after conjunction with both PennDOT and Streets Department to take enough take into consideration the future development of Cotman Avenue and the improvements that the city has planned for it.
Can I can I ask a question?
Let's go.
Planning Commission staff, can you explain what you meant by this doesn't meet the future plans?
Well, when we mention larger community vision, it means that, you know, the proposals for this area were sort of vented through a community engagement process.
And the community engagement process sort of indicated that some of the, you know, commercial uses like this would sort of be detrimental, particularly at this intersection.
And I think that's the critical aspect of this because of its high-volume traffic.
It does make a very dangerous situation to sort of have multiple curb cuts at that location.
And clearly, that's something that, you know, was something that the community was aware of.
So we're just bringing that forward.
And what types of commercial, what is the vision?
less or less auto oriented or what so a lot of less well less curb cuts to begin with
auto already and it can actually be done with not as many um curb cuts at that location making it on
its safe location um and the larger community vision was to sort of begin to uh move away from
motto-oriented commercial. Thank you. Mr. Johns, can I just, because I did make this statement in
my testimony, this used to all, there used to be an opening curb cut here, and there used to be an
opening curb cut here, and essentially here, as well as down here. We have done exactly what the
representative from the Planning Commission said, where we have limited the amount of curb cuts
onto the site. So now there's only two entrances, essentially. I mean, we have to allow access from
both Cotman and Busselton, and we designed it, as I said, in a way to make sure that it's not
close to this intersection of Cotman and Busselton, which is what the Philadelphia Streets Department
and PennDOT wanted us to do. If we look at the existing features, you can see this is the only
curb cut that we're keeping. We're shortening it. There's an existing curb cut right in the front
here and over here. And that's what we're eliminating with this landscaping that you see
here. So to the representative from the Planning Commission's point, we did take into consideration
less curb cuts and follow exactly what streets and PennDOT wanted us to do. But we have to
less curb cuts and follow it exactly what streets and PennDOT wanted us to do.
But we have to allow for some sort of access into the site from both Busselton and Cotman.
And this is the safest way that we were able to do that.
All right. Thank you.
So MI 2024, 004-469-2250, Cotman.
I vote yes, with proviso.
um use limited to oil change fluid fluids air filters and windshield wipers
michael johns my vote is yes with proviso
cheryl gaston my vote is yes with proviso
tanetta graham my vote is yes with proviso ayah win my vote is yes with proviso
dismal shaheed my vote is yes with proviso thank you counsel
Thank you very much, everyone. Have a good night.
Mr. Chair, I just wanted to clarify the wording of the proviso for the record.
So use limited to oil and fluid changes, air filter changes, and the sale of windshield wipers.
Just to clarify for the record. Thank you.
Thank you, everyone.
Thank you.
Number 12, MI 2024-004-463-244 South 22nd Street.
Vernon Anastasio is the attorney.
there's a letter of non-opposition from the center city residents association with enforceable
provisos we're coming back in as a panama sir
good evening mr chair burn i i swore you a couple times this morning right am i right
Yes, sir.
Okay, all right.
Could you just state your name for the record?
Vern Anastasio, on behalf of Zahara Saeed, the owner of the subject property.
And our vice chair has a few questions for you.
Thank you.
Good afternoon, counsel.
Do you agree to waive the reading of the refusal or stipulate to its accuracy?
I've emailed them all the required documents and exhibits that's needed to proceed with this case five days in advance of this hearing.
i have and then augmented them as recently as today no problem thank you please proceed and
thank you sir
mr chair members of the board this is a special exception for a coffee shop
on north 22nd street which is a commercial corridor i've got a 96 page exhibit packet
due to time i'm not going to go through everything to uh ease your calendar a little bit
but I do want to get to the more important parts. Pages 87 to 96 are all evidence of
voluminous support from the area neighborhood. We've got more than six letters individually
written, emails sent in advance of today's hearing, and of course the letter from CCRA,
center city residents association as well as signatures from about 30 immediate neighbors
and i just want to make note of that as well
oh let's take a look here this is the property in question zone cmx one a very long history
decades upon decades of commercial use on the first floor as you know the application for a
coffee shop is already deemed to be consistent with the code, but we have to, in fact, apply
for this special exception in order to demonstrate that our use will not negatively impact the
community.
And we will be putting on evidence and testimony of that as well.
We're going to zoom out to the plans.
oh boy here we go
well they were just there and then i lost them okay i'm going to keep them tight
but here's the basement left to right we have storage in the basement that's about it
and a room for the meters
we have our first floor we have entrance to the right
we have a public restroom to the left cafe tables bistro counter tables and a service counter
that's the use uh that we're looking for
uh that we're looking for
let me show you
are they showing blank to you now um mr chair yeah they're all blank
yeah i don't know why that is i think this is more of an internet thing than anything else
i'm going to close that and
reshare
just hang in there for a minute
I don't know what happened there
I think I was idling for a few hours
and maybe that's what it was
but we'll get it back
Hours of operation are 7 a.m. to 5 p.m.
There will be just two or three employees at any one time,
and it will be owner-operated by my client, Ms. Zahara Sahid.
Here's the referral.
As you can see, prepared food shop, which is what a coffee shop is.
and it requires a special exception in the CMX category.
Let me explain to you what this isn't first.
First of all, we're not seeking a variance, as you know.
Therefore, it's not subject to any hardship analysis.
It also, there's no hours after 5 p.m.,
no outside trash storage,
no dinner service,
no commercial kitchen,
No truck deliveries, no complicated signage, no more than two or three employees at any one time.
It's not subject to speculative impacts based on other businesses.
It is not to be compared to any full-size restaurant or pizzeria in the neighborhood.
And it's not subject to popular vote or even the whims of the immediate neighbors.
So long as we can demonstrate that this particular use will not impact the community any more than a coffee shop of this kind would, then the board has to grant the special exception.
That's black letter law.
So with that, I'm going to have my client, Ms. Saeed, raise her virtual hand and adopt my testimony.
Hi, could you please state your name and spell for the stenographer?
Zahra Saeed, Z-A-H-R-A-S-A-E-E-D
Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth?
Please proceed, Counsel
Thank you
Sahara, did you hear my presentation to the board this evening?
Yes, I did
Is it true and accurate to the best of your knowledge?
Yes, it is.
Do you accept it as your own testimony?
Yes, I do.
Do you believe your proposed coffee shop, open 7 a.m. to 5 p.m., will have an impact on the community in a manner that is more than any typical little coffee shop would?
I do not. It's just a small little cafe.
I see. No cooking, is that correct?
No cooking.
No dinner service. Is that correct? Yes. No truck deliveries. Is that correct? Yes. And no commercial kitchen. Is that correct? Yes. No kitchen. Trash storage will be entirely inside. Is that right? Exactly. With commercial trash pickup and the commercial operators will take the trash from the inside to their truck. Is that correct? Yes. Thank you.
Mr. Chair I would like to call uh another witness Mr. William Faust if he's still with us
Mr. Faust excuse me Mr. Anastasia just her point of clarification um Miss Saeed is she
what's her relationship to the property she owns the property okay she owns property okay so she's
part of mas properties for llc she is that llc that is it okay thank you so much yeah
fast yes i could you please state your name is spelled for the court sonographer
yes my name is william faust faust is spelled f like frank a you like uncle s like steven t like
thomas i own and live at 234 south 22nd street that is the northwest corner of latimer
Kate, do you swear or affirm to tell the truth, the whole truth, nothing but the truth?
okay do you swear or affirm to tell the truth the whole truth nothing but the truth yes of course
Yes, of course.
Please proceed, Kate, counsel.
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Mr. Faust, I have up on my screen a petition of support, non-opposition, for the 244 South 22nd Coffee Shop.
Are you familiar with this petition?
Is your name at the very top, the very first person who signed?
And did you help circulate this petition?
I did, exclusively.
Very good.
And do you have anything to add for the board?
Well, just a few comments.
I have lived at our address.
It is four row houses north of the proposed coffee shop on the same side of the street.
We've been here since 1999.
22nd Street has always been a mixed-use street with commercial,
mixed with a low-scale commercial.
All eight properties between Latimer Street and Manning Street were originally first-floor commercial, and they have been variously over the years.
My sense of things is that the neighborhood is generally better now than it was when we moved in in 1999, and I believe that is due in part to the availability of a limited scale in commercial activity, such as this proposed coffee shop represents.
It gives neighbors nearby services. It increases pedestrian traffic. That puts eyes on the street. And that, in turn, enhances safety. That has been demonstrated by FBI crimes data.
And just to put it in perspective, we are talking about a tiny coffee shop here. It's coffee and pastries. It'll generate a small amount of trash. It'll require modest delivery.
I feel compelled to point out one, a couple of comments that were raised as concerns by very nice people, neighbors of mine, which pertain to garbage trucks and supply.
Some people were concerned about very early garbage pickup from Pazada.
And the reason why that was raised is because they were concerned that they would experience the same from this proposed coffee shop.
That very early garbage pickup has nothing to do with Pazada. It never has. You know, we live opposite where those garbage trucks stop. And that truck stops services two or three large buildings, a locust between Van Pelt and 22nd Street. They roll dumpsters up and down the 2100 block of Adams Street.
um another concern articulated was that trucks would would uh utilize for traverse uh the 2200
block of uh rittenhouse i'll bet a hundred dollars that will never happen the student
it's narrow until tight turns 22nd street is a wide street they will want that um i uh
i look forward to having a cafe on 22nd street we do have one i'm sure this one will have better
popping. And all the commercial people I've run into on 22nd Street, they eventually become our
neighbors and they're very pleasant people as a general rule. Thank you, Mr. Fausto. Just to
follow up, the truck concerns, the trash concerns that were voiced by a few people at the RCO
meeting, you in fact have witnessed those trucks actually not being attributed to the pizzeria
that the neighbors suggested by another facility.
Is that right?
That's correct.
It's two very large, really large,
former Gilded Age mansions on locusts
between Van Pelt and 22nd.
They're on the south side.
And their dumpsters are in gardens at the rear,
which fronts the 2100 Black of Latimer.
That's the early garbage pickup truck.
And for the record, you know, Pazada, boy, there have been restaurants there in that location for about 50, 50, 50 years.
And Pazada has a very limited scope of food offerings.
So they don't really generate that much trash anyway.
They typically have about two dumpsters on the sidewalk.
Why don't we concentrate on the coffee shop?
And the pizzeria is that some folks pointed to as an example of why a little coffee shop should not be allowed.
That's a completely different business and business model than what we're proposing today. Is that right?
Exactly.
Okay. So it doesn't mirror what we are proposing here at all in the slightest. Is that correct?
I don't think it remotely represents what the coffee shop would be.
Very good. I have nothing further for Mr. Faust.
Thank you.
thank you are you are you done vern you're i am mr chair i think uh i think we've we've met our
burden i submit everything into evidence i do believe there is uh some folks out in the audience
there is uh some folks out in the audience who may also want to speak questions on the board
who may also want to speak questions
yes how many does the coffee shop see
i think it's less than 18 of folks at any one time i think there's a
five or six bistro tables and some counter seats
thank you oh i'm sorry were you going to hit toneta i'm sorry oh no i'm done okay uh so uh
you said that there were no truck deliveries so how do they get supplies to my client bring it
in her car i mean we're talking we're talking about croissants a tray of croissants maybe some
bagels uh this isn't a large volume sort of bags of coffee that's correct okay so this is all going
to be done with okay it's a very yeah i can speak on this uh with some personal experience the very
first zoning hearing i've ever handled 18 years ago was my coffee shop anthony's italian coffee
shop at 9th and christian still in existence 25 years later my brother runs it there hasn't been
and and it's a far larger business than what we're proposing here we've never had one truck deliver
any coffee because it's all delivered in cars okay yep the questions from the board thank you
wheelchair accessibility no uh there'll be assistance for people who need it uh to get
up to that first step uh which is consistent with uh the commercial use on that building for
uh about a hundred years and the bathroom wheelchair accessible it may be uh if required
that that'll be subject to building code review
obviously if it must be then we will do it
bernsey does your client agree with the provisors yes mr chair they were all very reasonable
uh again the only deliveries or trash pickup for the 2200 block of written house right
that's correct okay i mean the question before the board is simple will this proposed coffee
shop impact the community in a manner more than any typical coffee shop would we've demonstrated
any other question any other questions or not yep questions or comments from our attorney
not at this time mr chair questions or comments from the virtual audience
yes mr chair i have alexander roterer with their hand raised i have allowed them to speak
and could you please state your name and spell for the stenographer
hello hi could you please state your name and spell for the stenographer yes my name is
alexander that's a-l-e-x-a-n-d-e-r last name r-o-e-d-e-r-e-r you swear or affirm to tell
the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth yes i do are you a neighbor yes i am
Please proceed.
I'm speaking in support of the proposed cafe.
I think the cafe would be a positive addition to the neighborhood, which already, as we've
heard, has several food establishments and would benefit from the addition of the business
in question.
I live less than 500 feet from a similar coffee shop, and it has been a boon for our immediate
few blocks.
I think such businesses are very appropriate for this part of the city.
Thank you.
Thank you for taking the time to call us.
Anyone else?
Yes, Mr. Chair, I have a Joseph K. I have allowed them to speak.
Hi, could you please state your name and spell for the court stenographer?
Hi, I'm Joseph K, J-O-S-E-P-H-K-A-Y.
You swear or affirm to tell the truth, the whole truth, nothing but the truth?
Are you a neighbor?
Yes, sir.
Please proceed.
I'm speaking in favor of this.
I have a young daughter who's not quite old enough to go to elementary school yet, but I'll be walking up 22nd eventually every day to go to Greenfield.
And I would just love to have this as a public space.
You know, third spaces are key to the health and vibrancy of the city.
And I just love to have this available to us.
Mr. K, thank you very much for taking the time to call us.
Anyone else?
um yes wade albert has their hand raised i've allowed them to speak
good afternoon mr albert please state your name and spell for the stenographer
sure wade albert w-a-d-e last name a-l-b-e-r-t
Sure. Wade Albert, W-A-D-E, last name A-L-B-E-R-T.
You swear a firm to tell the truth, told the truth, nothing but the truth.
I do, Mr. Chair.
Please proceed, Mr. Albert.
Thank you. So I'm counsel for the Center City Residents Association.
And I just want to say that while there were a number of individuals who spoke against this project at our meeting,
uh the center city residents association believes that this project is no different than the
overwhelming majority of similar coffee shops and prepared food shops that seek special exception
relief from us uh every year or sometimes even every month and so uh we respectfully ask that
the zba grant the we're not opposed we don't oppose rather the um uh this request uh subject
to the provisos in our letter thank you very much mr albert we appreciate your call anyone else
yes mr try have a jason how many jason how many more hands do you have just two sir the first one
is jacob nabauer i would love them to speak hi sir could you please state your name and spell
for the stenographer hi yes jacob nabauer j-a-c-o-b-n-i-b-a-u-e-r you swear a firm to tell
the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth yes are you a neighbor i am please proceed
sir. Okay, I'll be brief. I just want to mention that there's a large population of graduate
students in the area associated with nearby universities who really support this cafe and
believe that adding this cafe to the Fittler Square neighborhood supports the educational
culture of the neighborhood and the surrounding Philadelphia community. And many cafes for us are
used as meeting points to share work with colleagues. So we really would like to see
this go through. Thank you. Thank you very much for calling in. We appreciate that. Last hand,
please yes last time from jacob pritchett i've allowed them to speak hi could you please state
your name and spell for the stenographer jacob pritchett j-a-c-o-b-p-r-i-t-c-h-e-t-t
um do you do you swear or affirm to tell the truth the whole truth nothing but the truth
i do are you a neighbor i live in the second councilmanic district and i'm a user of the
bike lane but i don't live right next to it all right please proceed then okay um i just wanted
to say i i think that um the the whole area would benefit from a coffee shop like this i think having
stuff along the bike lane encourages um people to um to get out and use their their bikes to get
around and it's a concentrated you know benefit for people who um for people to do that and i
I think that a low-impact business use like this is a great fit for a neighborhood in Center City, and I think that that's all I have to add.
Thank you very much.
I appreciate your comment.
And we're done with hands, Jason?
Yes, we're done.
Planning Commission.
So, Ron Vittner, City Planning.
Property is indicated for commercial mixed use on the city plan.
And the applicant has shown that the proposed use will have no more of an impact than would be normally expected.
We recommend the requested food establishment special exception be granted.
MI 2024.
Can I request that I would like to hear from the owner that there is a commitment for wheelchair accessibility with or without the code requiring it?
I can't make that commitment because we don't know.
I was asking the owner. Is the owner on the call? Can they make a commitment?
She is. I don't think she can make that commitment without knowing what that would entail in changing the facade of the building.
We could make it accessible so that folks would have access with assistance.
But I think that would be a dangerous commitment to make without knowing the details of what would need to be done physically pursuant to the International Building Code.
I would like to understand that.
I'm sorry.
I would like to understand that this sounds like this is going to be a very great thing for the community, but if folks that are in wheelchairs can't use it, and it's not such a great thing for the folks that are in wheelchairs.
They could use it with assistance from staff.
When I see a plan that doesn't have a wheelchair accessible bath on it, and I'm being told that if the code requires us, then we'll do it.
That's correct.
The fact of the matter is, if we want to have a facility that is really open and supports the community and all folks that are in the community, even if it's disabled, there should be a commitment to make sure that that happens and not present us with plans that don't comply.
and not present us with plans that don't comply.
I think my client could probably...
I think my client could probably testify today
that she's committed to the compliant restroom for sure.
It's just the entrance on a 19th century building
that would be a little hairy to make a commitment in advance.
But I would like to call my client to the stand
to at least at the very least commit
to what Mr. John's request is pursuant to the restroom.
Can you hear me?
Yes, you've already been sworn.
Okay, yes.
So the restroom that's there is ADA compliant.
Well, that's on the plan that you presented does not.
Ms. Saeed.
Ms. Saeed.
Sorry, sorry.
It's not.
Ms. Saeed.
And this was existing.
It's an existing restroom.
Understood.
Ms. Saeed, do you, I'm going to, you're under oath,
And I want to pursue it to Mr. John's question.
Would you agree to ensure that the restroom would be outfitted for handicap accessibility or adaptability?
Thank you.
Okay, Michael, what do we, Michael, you said?
Yeah, I'm good with that if we can get a revised plan that shows that.
Well, that's an interior plan that's not subject to the ZBA review, right? We've already just committed to the ADA accessibility or adaptability restroom, and now we'll have to submit those plans with that bathroom to the building code examiner before we could ever occupy.
Does that make, am I making sense?
well we've asked other folks to do the same thing so i'm not i'm not understanding here i think
attorney i'm not understanding the difference between what we've asked other folks to do and
they've complied so i'm i'm not i'm not understanding that only because i'd like to
get a vote today after waiting three hours and i think we all and i understand the commitment
But I'm asking, can there something be a revised plan that shows that accessible bathroom be sent into to to ZBA so that we can say, yes, we agree?
I'm going to yield to others have made that.
I understand. Although, please forgive me.
There's all of these sorts of new rules are new for me.
All right. So I'm going to yield to attorney Emerson to figure out the procedurally how that would happen.
So, yes. Excuse me. So because this is a change of use application, there were no plans required.
We can certainly ask for plans that show the ADA restroom, but they we can't we can't bind the applicant to plans on a change of use application.
So that's that's that's that's where we stand.
um again our commitment stands to the ada bathroom plan and as attorney emerson said
i don't think uh no plans were submitted uh for review so but we certainly will do that
at the building code level.
So, number 12, MI 2024, 004-463-244 South 22nd Street.
I vote yes, with proviso, interior trash storage,
no deliveries or trash pickup from the 2200 block of Rittenhouse Street,
no exterior, amplified music.
Michael Johns, my vote is no.
Cheryl Gaston, my vote is yes with provisos.
Tanetta Graham, my vote is yes with provisos.
I am one, my vote is yes with provisos.
Ishmael Shaheed, my vote is yes with provisos.
Thank you, Mr.
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Is there anyone in the virtual audience whose case has not been called?
We're going to take a five-minute break.
I did not change any hands, Mr. Chair.
all right we're going to take a five minute break and we're going to come right back we'll finish
this 3 30 list all right all right we have 35 participants we can start good afternoon
everyone my name is bill bergman and i will be chairing the 330 list with me is our board member
With me is our board member Cheryl L. Gaston, present Mr. Chairman, our board member Tanetta Graham, present Mr. Chairman, our board member Michael Johns, present Mr. Chairman, our board member Taya Nguyen, also present as Hillary Emerson, our attorney, and also the deputy director for planning and zoning.
Cheryl L.
Kathleen Grady. Here's our virtual format. Seedings are being recorded.
With your participation, you agree to be recorded. A video will be available by contacting
ZBA Executive Director at phila.gov. That's all one word, ZBA Executive Director at phila.gov.
For our court stenographer, we ask attorneys and witnesses to identify themselves before
testifying. If you are participating by phone, press star 9 to raise your hand and star 6 to
unmute. To enter an appearance statement, call 267-270-5548. Leave your email address and the
address of the property in question. The question and answer box on the screen is not for testimony.
All testimony or questions should be directed to our Deputy Director Kathleen Grady.
Let's look at our list for today, for this afternoon.
Number seven, MI 2024-002-822-807 Roosevelt Boulevard.
That case is continued.
Number nine, MI 2024-002-892-2100 Robbins Street.
That case has been continued. And number 10, MI 2024-002-932-5625 Thomas Avenue, that case has been continued. Are there any other requests for continuances?
Chair, I have a hand raised by the name of Otabek Makhamedov.
He is now speaking.
Could you please state your name and spell for the court stenographer?
Hello.
Hi, could you state your name and spell for the court stenographer?
Yes, I am Otabek Mohamedo, O-T-A-B-E-K, my last name M-A-K-H-A-M-E-D-O-V.
Right, do you swear or affirm to tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth?
Yes, I do.
What case are you involved with, sir?
11707 Stevens Road Philadelphia Pennsylvania 19116 okay are you are you prepared to go on today sir
yes okay so what tell me why your hands up I mean I'm going to call your case shortly okay
okay okay all right and when you when you when I call your case you're gonna have to come on the
screen right you're gonna have to go on video all right okay i'll call your case shortly
thank you okay any other requests for continuance
also also i have a case here mi 2024 002 747 3265 south 61st street devin logan is the applicant
and SRA Incorporated
is the listed owner.
No exhibits first listing.
Devin Logan, SRA Inc.
Devin Logan,
raise your hand.
Chair, I have a hand raised
with a phone number
1415-412-8255.
bring them on all right they're allowed to talk hi could you state your name please and spell for
the stenographer yeah jason meyers json m as in mary y ers i'm the one having issues rejoining
the zoom link i know i i i have to wait your case is going to be called next i have to handle this
particular case i have now okay so you're going to hear me call you in a little bit okay
Is there anyone here from 3265 South 61st Street?
okay so there's i'm sorry chair we have a craig melodosian with their hand raised
I'm sorry.
yeah well he would yeah and craig you've already been sworn so just state your name for the record
craig melodosian i just wanted to indicate to the board that
uh the rcos have had no contact from this applicant at this time
Okay. Councilperson Gauthier has sent a note saying the same thing.
Thank you.
So, MI 2024-002-747-3265-61st Street. This is the first listing. This case will be continued. Mark must be heard. Thank you.
We're going to start with number four. MI2024-002-621-1428 Hope Street. Jason Myers is the listed owner. Mr. Myers.
Yes, good evening.
Good evening, Mr. Myers. Could you state your name and I'll swear you in?
Jason Myers. Can you spell it?
I think we're okay with that
Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth
The whole truth and nothing but the truth
Mr. Myers are you prepared to present your case
I am over the phone
Yeah I don't have my visuals
Because I can't get into the zoom
But my case is pretty straightforward in my opinion
Yeah but we'd have to see it
I can't hear your case without seeing your visuals
Yes Mr. Joe
I did try to
I did try to send Mr. Myers a direct panelist link for the Zoom.
Unfortunately, he was unable to open it.
Mr. Myers, we unfortunately have to have a hearing, and we have to be able to see your exhibits.
We cannot handle this over email.
So, unfortunately, we will need to reschedule your case.
The staff will work with you to get you.
I know the staff will work with you to get you back as soon as they can.
so just keep an eye on your email and the staff will be in touch with you and i'm sorry for the
inconvenience number four mi 2024 002 621 1428 hope street that case has been continued
okay we're gonna
i'm gonna start with one all right hillary
um hold on one second mr chair um if you could actually do number six next that is another
thank you mi 2024 002 798 11707 stephens road amas alaydon
there's a letter of support from somerton civic association
and a letter of non-opposition from council member o'neill
good evening could you state your name i think i already swore you in am i correct sir
yes yes all right could you uh share your go on your video and share your screen
is that mr meyers
it looks like Mr. Myers was able to get on Mr. Chair
Mr. Myers can we just come back to you in a second since we're already started on the next case
no problem thank you yeah he's
we cannot share the screen because somebody else in the screen
his screen is
already being shared right Hillary Mr. Myers no one is
sharing their screen right now
Yeah, we don't have the ability to share the screen with you guys.
You need to.
Where's our tech guy?
Yes, excuse me.
He's still in the attendees.
Let me.
All right.
Take him up.
Hold on one second.
Thank you.
He'll be rejoining as a panel shortly.
Thank you.
uh this is my appeal for uh copy okay we see it yes not so refusal
keep moving that's your application for appeal we're good
Project Information Forum. Yeah.
project information forum yeah
Indeed. Indeed, yes.
Check to get off the clearance zoning board.
You're posting? Yeah. Posting sticker.
Notes from zoning applicants.
what's in civic association
tell us what tell us first of all what tell us what you're trying to do
why don't you do that first show us the pictures first and tell us what you're trying to do
excuse me i'm here i'm here just to help him with the english sir
well you can't we you can't do that he has to do it himself we had to know that beforehand sir
yes i i change it guys you want you you're so what you're trying to do is is to close your
garage up? Yes. And you're going to want to park your car outside instead of in the garage,
am I correct? Yes, outside. And tell me why are you closing your garage off?
My car is big and it's not fixed. You want to have, you're making your apartment bigger?
and I need a room
for my parents
making a room for your parents
in the garage
let me ask you how many other houses
on the block have done that
did you hear my question
yeah can you repeat
are there other houses on the block
who have closed their garage up yet you know how many uh i don't know
you went to the somerton civic association i correct yes let me ask you do you have a drawing
of what you're putting in the garage what what the room's going to look like are you putting
plumbing in there, bathroom? Tell me what you're doing there.
Gibson board. I put
Gibson board. Putting the kitchen in there?
No. Does it sound like you said
drywall, gypsum board? Drywall. Oh, gypsum board. Okay.
And you're just having a room, right? I mean,
you're going to let your parents live in the garage?
And you went to the Somerton Civic Association
and voted 12, 4, and 10 against.
Am I correct?
Do you have anything else there to show us?
No, I don't know.
questions from the board yeah i don't know how we make a decision on without seeing plans for this
i mean to close it off a garage and making it a room i don't know and for your parents and
i can't you know what is their bathroom down there out what's that's you know big chips
that's an elevation and that's fine but we don't know what's happening on the inside i don't i
don't know how we make it there's nothing inside you already done that you've already done it yes
that's that there's there's no bathroom there's nothing else there but that
there's no other bathroom
or anything in the basement
yeah there is
one bathroom which is originally
in the basement
so there's a powder
what's the rest of the basement look like i mean i this is like the this is a duplex right
no so single home and but that there's nothing else on the first floor there the garage level
right yes what's what's there sir
What's what's there, sir?
He's telling you what is in the first.
Excuse me, Mr. Chair.
I think that we may need to resume this matter with an interpreter.
I agree.
I agree.
Sir, what language do you need an interpreter for?
Uzbek language.
Uzbek?
So we're going to continue the case and get you an interpreter.
And have some plans we can look at.
I mean, I don't know how we feel.
There's a person there that can talk to them.
We've got to see what the rest of the downstairs looks like.
I mean, it's.
So MI 2024-002-798-11707, Stevens Road.
The case is continued.
and uh mr chair uh yes uh mr chair um just going back uh mr myers i'm sorry i misspoke
um because we already continued this case we have to wait wait to hear it again we will
mr myers we will put this on next week at 2 p.m okay uh all right i i'm sorry but because we
already continued it and people may have left, we can't bring it back. So we have to continue
until next week at 2 p.m. So you'll get some follow-up information from the staff. We do
apologize for the inconvenience and you will be able to get on the right Zoom at 2 o'clock next
week. All right. Thank you for your patience. Number one, MI 2023-006-254-648 North Udall
Street. Henry Clinton is the attorney. Chair, they will be coming back in as a panelist.
good evening mr chairman members of the board mr clinton you've already been sworn could you
just state your name for the record sure henry clinton c-l-i-n-t-o-n could you identify your
client relationship to the property sure jeffrey jones he's the principal of jones
these properties, and he is on the call
along with his wife.
You stipulate to the
reading of the refusal,
and you agree with the accuracy?
And we have a letter of opposition
from HMC Squared,
and we have a petition
of support with 25 signatures
and eight letters of support
from neighbors.
Why don't you begin?
Thank you.
uh this visible was your chairman it's we have it all right so good evening mr chairman members
of the board and just want to address the community group letter at the outset there
were only three people at the meeting the vote was two to one against uh and i'll show you that
in their letters that's why uh it is significant that my client was able to get the signatures
that he did and he personally did it he walked around the block and got the signatures
So these are the table of contents, A1 through A10, which I ask be admitted into evidence.
Refusal is basically, the main issue is, this is a single-family block, and we're asking for a two-family household living.
The dimensional variance is the minimus.
It's about 14 square feet, so I'm going to concentrate mainly on the use issue.
This is the RCO letter of opposition. You can see one support to oppose for abstain. So basically had three people that really participated in the meeting and had to say one way or the other.
And then if you look at the rationale, again, I don't often come to the board unless I have
community support. And when I do, I just feel that there's a good reason to come without that
support. And this is one of those rare occasions. So the reasoning is they did not like the height
or under the 38 feet. We're certainly permitted to build up the 38 feet.
the rco said it's a narrow block and having a three-story building would be inappropriate for
the width of the block i understand that and i i explained that the way this house is constructed
it is set back and i'll show you that on the site plan to mimic the houses that
to mimic the houses that are on one side because the other side is a vacant lot.
are only or on one side because that the other
And then the other comment was this increases the renter population and we don't have people
who are invested in the community. And again, you know, I think a lot of us were renters at
one time and they still be. My kids are, so I don't know why there's some animus toward renters.
Here are the support signatures that you mentioned, Mr. Chairman, and in all candor to the tribunal here.
In this petition, there are several people from Udall Street, but some of them are redundant with the letters.
So we do have some strong community support, and I hope that that would carry the day today in front of the board.
all right so this is the block the 600 block of north udall this property has been vacant
according to the aerial photographs that i looked at since 2004 the property next to it i don't know
how long has been vacant but you can see there's other vacant properties on the block uh and so
the fact that my client was able to garner some of these signatures is really a credit to him
because there are some vacant and there are vacant lots on the block, obviously,
and we could not get those signatures.
So if you look at the structure of the block,
some homes have enclosed porches and some have open porches.
We tried to mimic this enclosed porch by having an enclosed first floor,
set back the second floor, six feet.
And then when we got to third floor, we set that back an additional two feet
to try to take away any canyon effect on what the community considers a small street.
Closer view of the homes on the block, all well kept in good shape.
This is looking up the street and the property.
The vacant lot is right here to the left.
You can see adjacent is an enclosed porch.
Across the street is an enclosed porch.
And there are several other enclosed porches down toward the end of the block.
Again, just another view looking in the opposite direction.
These are not my client's cars.
They're just abandoned cars, which you'll have to take care of.
Just took a picture of this property.
It's almost directly across the street.
It's a two-family dwelling.
Again, I'm not here to point out any deficiencies in homeowners on the block.
I could not find any licensure for this duplex, but it's certainly operating as a duplex.
These are my posters that were posted on the property.
And so these are revised plans.
And I'd like to start with the, let me start with the floor plan if I can and work back.
And the reason I want to do that is the basement, first floor, second floor.
So the second floor is set back eight feet from the front so that you have an enclosed
porch on the lower level.
And then when you get to the third floor, the third floor is set back an additional two feet.
So in reality, we all know that if you're going to build a three-story house, you're supposed to set back the third floor eight feet.
And the third floor is set back eight feet.
Now I'll go back to the elevation.
So I don't have a side view to show you.
That's why I showed you the site plan, rather the floor plan slash site plan on Z2.
So back to Z1, first floor, limestone at the bottom, nicely appointed, window well, even
though we don't have any basement dwellings or living area, double hung windows, nice
brick to mimic what is on the block.
And then there's a roof on the first floor.
Second floor is set back to be at the same level as the home on its side.
And then when you get to the third floor, it's a little bit of a mansert roof, and it's
setback two feet from the additional six feet from the front of the second floor.
I'll go back to the floor plan. And it's a very modest proposal. It's two one-bedroom apartments.
My client has looked at the values of homes on the block. And again, not demeaning the block.
It's a well-kept block in good shape. But the majority of the homes on the block,
The market value is less than $100,000.
And my client will testify that he can't build a single-family home for $100,000.
It costs him about $275,000.
So he opted for a two-family dwelling.
Again, he is not crammed in bedrooms.
He's made it rather spacious and tried to match the contours of the other homes on the block.
of the other homes on the block so you walk in the front door take a left and you have your
So you walk in the front door, take a left.
living quarters on the first floor with one bedroom and access to the rear yard with a
window well in the rear in the basement and i misspoke in the beginning and there is
occupancy of the basement i meant to say no bedrooms in the basement so there's no bedrooms
in the basement there's living room dining and kitchen in the basement with an egress well
And then to get to the second unit, you would continue to walk upstairs.
This is a more spacious unit because you don't have the stairways in a way on the third floor.
But on the second floor, you have living room, dining room, and a kitchen area.
And then you would continue upstairs to the third floor, and you would have one bedroom and a master bath.
There's no rooftop deck.
We don't have any issues with height or rear yard.
We just have the minimus variance for the open space.
These were the previous plans that were submitted.
I don't really think it's necessary to go into that, only to tell you that at that point,
the third floor had not been set back, and revised plans show that the third floor is
set back, the required eight feet.
Again, that wasn't a variance or a refusal.
It was done more to, let me go back, to really mimic this situation where you have a porch or an enclosed porch in the case of the property to the right, and then you go back six feet, you go up, and then the third floor is back two feet.
So really the opposition from two individuals at the meeting was basically on the third floor.
The remaining documents are what you typically would see in a presentation, the application for appeal, tax clearance certificate, zoning map, the deed, notice letter, certificate of mailing.
so i would like to briefly have my client unmute himself and not only adopt my testimony but i
just want to ask him a couple questions so that you can see the information i gave you about the
market value of the properties on the block and the cost of building is really it's really his
testimony mr jones can you unmute yourself sir could you please state your name and spell for
a stenographer.
Mr. Jones
or Mrs. Jones.
Do we see his hand anywhere?
I was just texting him.
Mr. Jones, are you on the call?
Can you unmute?
Yes, I am. I'm on the call. This is Mrs. Jones.
I'm sorry. I was having trouble unmuting.
And, Mrs. Jones, could you please state your name and spell it for the court stenographer?
My name is Naima Jones, spelled N-A-E-E-M-A-H, last name Jones, J-O-N-E-S.
We're a firm to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth?
And you're a principal in the Joneses Properties?
Please proceed, Mr. Clayton.
Thank you, Mrs. Jones.
Jones, you were on a Zoom call when I presented your project and your husband's project.
And you've done some analysis of the block.
And are there 30 plots or parcels on this block?
And are the market values per the OPA between $14,000 and $106,000?
Yes, that's correct.
And there's only one house that's valued in excess of $100,000, correct?
Yes, that's correct.
And what would it cost for you to build a single-family home?
Based off of our estimates we've got, it would take at least $250,000 up to $275,000.
So in lieu of building a single-family home, which you probably would not be able to sell,
you've opted for a two-family dwelling with one bedroom in each dwelling.
Yes, that's correct.
I have no further questions of the witness, Mr. Chairman.
I'll just sum up if you give me that courtesy.
So we have a unique physical condition slash situation where we have a long vacant lot.
No one has attempted to build any structure on the property.
My client went door to door on the block and also on 54th Street, presented everyone with
the plans.
And I think the tenor was, again, I wasn't there, was that folks would rather have a property there than a continued vacant lot where people were parking and putting other household items on the lot.
People are parking and putting other household items on the lot.
We're not altering the essential character of the neighborhood because we're not over developing it.
Just two, one bedrooms.
We are not affecting the light and air of any adjacent property because of the setbacks to match the elevations of the homes next door.
We do have a third floor.
It would be the only home on the block of the third floor.
I'm not going to hide behind that.
But again, it's below 38 feet, and it is set back.
We are in generally harmony with the code because it is a residential block, and we're in harmony with what the other neighbors on the block want.
With that, I rest my case.
Questions from the board.
I have a question.
When was the lot purchased?
Lot was purchased 2018.
was this a how was it purchased was it a private private land or was it public auction or
purchase from p and j
okay so it's housing authority
so there is this is their agreement for for this to be affordable units or
or market rate?
Mr. Jones, can you answer that question?
We wanted to make it
an affordable living for at-risk
populations, like low-income families,
survivors of the
mixed violence, veterans, things of that nature.
What does
that mean in terms of, I don't understand,
less than 80% of AMI, less than
50% of AMI?
What's the...
What's your
in terms of the income you're targeting?
Well, I'm sorry.
Go ahead.
Mr. Johns, could she advise what they're going to rent the units for?
Would that help?
When we did our research, the average one bedroom in Philadelphia
and in the area ranges from about $1,400 to about $1,700 a month,
we were going to rent ours for as low as $1,000 to $1,200.
The questions are there any other window wells on the block?
And I guess would the window well come out at the same level
as the porch lines on the rest of the house?
Aaron, the architect, Aaron, are you on the call?
Well, I'm not to speak.
Hello, can you hear me?
Yeah, could you please state your name and spell for the stenographer?
So it's Aaron Forsman, A-A-R-O-N, F-O-R-S-M-A-N, and I'm with Wiedemann Architecture in representation for the project.
Bear a firm to tell the truth, tell the truth, nothing but the truth.
Yes, I do.
So, Aaron, I believe the question was, and Ms. Graham, correct me if I'm wrong, is the window well that I have my cursor on, does that project out further than the steps?
So, for the front, a full window well would not be required.
It would more just be a slight window well to allow the light in.
The back window well would be for egress.
So the question is, does this window well where my cursor is in the front, does that project out further than the steps?
It would probably project a tiny bit further than the steps, yes.
Can you make that window well not project out beyond the steps?
Because in this drawing, it doesn't look like it does.
Currently, there is no window well shown in that drawing, actually.
My mistake, then.
Yeah, it's only shown in the elevation.
is shown as a lower, you know, as a, as a deeper window and the as if it's.
If we did a typical depth egress, well, it would stick out further than that step.
Right. Right. But the, the, I guess the, the concern, and I don't want to speak for
Miss Graham is if can you if you don't need an egress well here and you just want to break light
and air in can you make it in such a way that it does not protrude beyond the bottom step of the
entrance steps yes okay
any other questions for the board what's what's the height of the building
and he has a question
this is is this the old plan of the new plan
is it this is if you scroll back to it this is a revised plan yes and then just
zoom into the front elevation it should say
Let me try to bring that up.
31.4, the top of roof.
And how low is the basement below grade?
What's the ceiling height in the basement, Aaron?
I believe it's still an 8-1 ceiling, but if you could go back to the elevation again to double-check it.
Not my question. My question is how low is the basement slab below grade?
Is it five feet below grade? Is it six feet below grade? Is it two feet below grade?
I'm sorry.
I don't have the exact number on hand, but it would be roughly five feet.
My apologies, Mr. Johns. I didn't mean to restate your question incorrectly.
No, I just wanted to make sure I was clear because it's always a concern if there is basement living, some basements living areas are so low below grade that if there's a heavy snow, you get locked in the basement and you can't dig yourself out.
you know what i mean so that's the concern with basement living that that i personally have
regardless of whether or not the code allows it can i can i just ask for clarification because
this is for an addition and it looks like there's something being proposed at the rear of the
property and the new third story is it both no to clarify it's currently a vacant lot this would be
a new home being built this is a okay this is a ground up construction yes
but i so i guess the trying to make it market rate or whatever trying to load it's not a
program it's just something you're setting yourself am i correct henry yes that's what
It's just something that she came up with a figure to say that, you know, $1,000 to $1,200 is cheaper.
Right. That's what she said. Yes, Mr. Chairman. I mean, we could put that in writing to the community group, certainly, but I understand your question.
okay so then my second question is there any elevation that shows this building
in relationship to the two contiguous properties on the same street because it's a row house
and this is now an infill row house i can clarify on that if you would like
so the right side is also currently a vacant lot but then the left side it is following those same
setbacks for the first and second floor so the first floor is at the property line the second
floor steps back about six feet to match that elevation for the second floor and then the third
floor is what steps back an additional two feet for the eight foot but currently there is no side
elevation drawn. Okay. Questions from our attorney? Not at this time, Mr. Chair.
Questions or comments from the virtual audience?
I do not see any further hands, Mr. Chair. Any commission?
Yeah, this is Ron Bednar. Property is indicated for residential use on the city plan. Adopted district or adopted comprehensive plan recommends no change to existing zoning at this location. The applicant's hardship not supported with evidence of physical circumstances or condition of the property that was prevented from being used and conforming with the code. We recommend the request of variance not be granted.
Can I address that, Mr. Chairman?
You know, certainly one of the elements we look at for use is in a hardship situation is, is it necessary for the viable economic use of the property?
Certainly, I agree with Mr. Bernard that a single family home could be built there.
But we have circumstances where lots may remain vacant.
I'm not a, you know, a genie.
And Jeannie, I'm not guessing what's happening in the future, but certainly nothing has happened for at least a decade.
I'm not guessing what's happening in the future, but certainly nothing has happened.
And this is one way to get housing stock and more people on the block and on the street.
MI 2023, 006254648 North Udall Street, I vote no.
Taiwan, I vote no.
my vote is no
sir gaston my vote is no
i'm opposing everybody today my vote is yes
thank you sir
thank you everyone have a great night
number two mi2024 000427
2549 north 19th street bart levy is the attorney
Hi, Chair. Bart Levy has his hand raised. I'm going to allow him to speak.
Thank you.
Good evening, ladies and gentlemen.
Could you state your name, please, and spell it for the court stenographer?
My name is Bart Levy, B-A-R-T-L-E-V-Y.
We're a firm to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth.
Yes, Mr. Chairman.
Could you identify your client, a relationship to this property?
My client is North Warnock, LLC, and Gasner DuPont, who owns that LLC.
site. Do you stipulate to the reading of the refusal and do you agree with its accuracy?
We do. Okay. There's a letter of support from all in the family CDC with some provisos.
Why don't you begin and start your presentation? Thank you. Sorry, Mr. Chair, I just wanted to
note, according to the materials submitted by Mr. Levy, the coordinating RCO was North Central
um susquehanna cdc um there was a meeting held with them on september 18th but we do not have
a letter all the families and affected rco okay all right okay okay i mean if you have something
mr levy please please share but we did not receive a letter we do i mean i just click on
the share icon on the bottom we open your documents first and then you click all right
and then what right
green light you see the green light says share screen yeah i do hold on one second
I'm clicking on it.
I've got my documents up, but nothing's happening.
IT, any suggestions?
So when you click on the share button, nothing happens?
Nothing.
I've got a total of 14 documents I'm looking at now.
And I honestly, I don't know what it takes.
In other words, the arrow's on.
I'm clicking on it, and nothing's happening.
sir you don't see a green button at the bottom of your screen sure it says share screen
it's having no effect at all
can you mr all shitty maybe go back out or come back in what do you recommend i probably suggest
Just going back to panelists, I mean, back to attendee and then trying to come back into panelists.
Perhaps I don't want to have them come off all the way since we've already had trouble with people, given the lateness of the day.
I'm sorry, I didn't get that.
Let's send you back to an attendee and then re-invite you as a panelist.
So hold on one second.
Oh, wait.
Okay, I've re-promoted him to the panel.
Let's see if it helps.
Mr. Levy, already you're allowed to speak Mr. Levy, Mr. Levy,
he has returned as a
panelist but he is not he is both
muted and his camera is off at the moment
yes we're asking
him to unmute
Mr. Levy can you unmute
okay so
I'm clicking on the screen now
Documents are open.
Once your documents are open, then hit the share screen.
Honestly, I'm tapping on it with both keys now, and it's not open.
it's having no effect I've got I'm looking at my documents
they're on the screen they're not coming up
so Mr. Levy we know you've been waiting a long time
but we're going to have to move on and continue this and then very well Mr. Chairman thank you
and what we'll try to do is get you back in as quick as we can okay we'll be in touch
I appreciate your courage I'm sorry about you I'm sorry you have that
I'm sure it's me. I'm sure it's me. Thank you.
No, no, no. Thank you, sir.
And number three, MI 2024-000-429-1932 Main Street, Oluk Sokolov.
Mr. Sokolov has been allowed to speak.
Good evening.
Mr. Sokolov, I think you've already been sworn today. Am I correct?
I have. That is correct. I do not have a link to be promoted as panelists, however.
I'll do that for you right now.
Thank you so much.
Just so you know, we do have a letter of opposition from Point Breeze CDC.
I'm sorry, Chair, as it was converting over, I missed it, just so you know.
We have a letter of opposition from Point Breeze CDC.
I am aware of that. It's in our packet, too.
I will try to be as brief since this is a fairly straightforward use request.
Could you identify your client, please, because you've already been sworn?
Yeah, my client is Mr. Zhao Yu, owner of the property.
Stipulate to the reading of the refusal and also do you agree with its accuracy?
I do, Chair.
Why don't you start your presentation?
So the refusal is simply for the use as a visitor accommodation.
I've been before this board before on this, so I will try to move through the exhibit packet pretty quickly.
This is an existing structure purchased by Mr. Yu in 2021.
It is a single-family home in the Point Breeze section of Philadelphia.
I'm sorry, Mr. Sokolov, we can't see your documents.
You know what? You can't see them because I haven't hit share screen, and like all of you, it's been a long day.
It's okay. Thank you.
All right, let's let's start it again. Maybe I won't be as brief as I thought.
So once again, the refusal just simply for the use as a visitor accommodation in an existing structure, nothing being built.
Obviously, everyone on the board is very familiar with the prevalence of the Airbnbs and the the need to obtain licensure for such use under under new city regulations.
over the last couple years. So that is what we are going for here. The property was purchased in 2021.
That is what we are going for here. The property was purchased in 2021. Mr. Yu has, throughout the time, attempted to rent it at various prices and had very little success.
The property is a bit larger in the neighborhood, and just the rent that could support the property as a long-term rental hasn't been achievable to Mr. Yu.
You can see the neighborhood is often changing, a lot of development going on in the neighborhood.
This is a view down one side of Manton Street and a view down the other.
Now you can see this property is very well taken care of, very properly decorated and shows a level of care for the property that Mr. Yu has for it and intends to maintain in his oversight over this kind of use of the property.
And I know I mentioned this, you know, for all visitor accommodation requests that I've
been before this board on, but it really does add an element of, I apologize, it does lend
an element to the city of a way to experience it that is very unique.
It's not a hotel. You really get to be part of a neighborhood for some time while you're here.
It also does allow for people within the neighborhood to have family members come and stay.
So, you know, this visitor accommodation use is something that I personally and I think a lot of people in the city see as a benefit if done and taken care of correctly.
So to that end, what we proposed and what we presented to the RCO is a given number of house rules that we, you know, propose as provisos that kind of restrict the ability to improperly use this property, improperly use the Airbnb or the short term stay process in general.
So things like smoking, noise violations, even what people do with their doggy bags and trash, because the concern is that people that come for a little bit don't have the care of the neighborhood that maybe a long-term resident does.
And while I understand that, a property like this really does not attract the parties, the type of concerns that are often apparent with Airbnbs.
The other thing I'd like to point out, you can see this property isn't an RSA 5, but it's very close to two highly commercial corridors, that being Point Breeze Boulevard and a little farther to the north.
It's not here, but we're talking about Washington Ave right up here a little bit further, just a few blocks that once again, another commercial corridor that I think is ripe to attract visitors to the city.
And this way they're very close to it and get to experience parts of the city that don't really have hotels and may not attract, you know, tourists or visitors to the city otherwise.
And once again, to just kind of point out the deficiency in hotels in the area, there's really, this is some apartment that we couldn't tell if it's just a room being rented an apartment or not.
But the Deakin Hotel and the Bella Vista Hotel are really the only two things that are nearby.
So, this use in this neighborhood really does add an element to the neighborhood as well.
Our application for appeal, our project information form.
We met with the community on June 24th, I believe.
It was not very well attended, unfortunately.
In fact, the meeting was rescheduled from a May meeting at the RCO's behest.
So we really did everything we could to try to get the community there.
And out of 162 people noticed, as evidenced by these certificates of mailing, unfortunately, we only had six people that were eligible to vote at the meeting.
But since the chair brought it up, and obviously this is a point of concern, what I would like to point out is it is a letter of opposition from the RCO formally.
However, the votes themselves, and fully understanding that it is not a large number of residents of the neighborhood that voted, but the votes of the residents were in favor, three yes to two no's.
So the non-support of the RCO formally in the letter is a bit dubious to me.
We never really got an explanation of why it changed from the vote to opposition.
Notices of today's.
Notices of today's meeting in the property.
And then unfortunately, and like many people, we've had a problem with the tax clearance
system and couldn't pull an actual tax clearance cert, but this is evidencing not only that
payments are on time, but in fact, we have a credit somehow with the revenue services.
And then we do have seven letters of support
from nearby neighbors, not everyone on the block.
Mr. Yu did what he could to get people on the block,
but it is a residential neighborhood,
so people aren't always home at the right times.
But we are talking about one, two.
So here, and here you can just see a sprinkling
of the letters of support that were obtained.
And so they are, you know, one square, within one square block.
And, oh, pardon me.
And for the sake of brevity, I will leave it at that.
If Mr. Yu is on the line, I would ask that he raise his hand to adopt my testimony.
Hello, can you hear me?
Yes, could you please state your name and spell for the stenographer?
okay show you um x-i-a-o y-u
we're a firm to tell the truth the whole truth nothing but the truth
i do please proceed counsel thank you good evening uh mr you mr you did you hear my
testimony or my presentation to the board today yes okay and would you adopt my testimony as your
Thank you.
Nothing further.
Questions from the board.
Questions or comments from our attorney, Hillary Emerson.
Not at this time, Mr. Chair.
Questions or comments from the virtual audience.
Hi, Chair.
We have a hand raised by the name of Kristen Collazo.
They're allowed to.
Could you please state your name, please?
Spelled for a stenographer.
My name is Christian Collazo, and it's spelled C-H-R-I-S-T-I-A-N-C-O-L-L-A-Z-O.
You work for the council person?
I do not.
Are you, hold on a minute.
Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth, told you nothing but the truth?
Are you a neighbor?
Yes, I live two doors up from the Airbnb.
All right, please proceed.
I just wanted to voice my opposition to the Airbnb being less than 30 days.
I believe that's what it's currently set at.
I know of five kids on the block under 18 months right now.
So it'd be a little tough to have it become a short-term rental.
I think we know people across the street who have rented out their house for the past two and a half years now.
So, I'm not, and, you know, the upkeep of the backyard at that property, too, it's not in the best condition.
I know that for a fact because I can see the trash in the backyard now from my roof deck, so.
Thank you very much for calling. We appreciate it.
All right. Thank you.
Anyone else in the virtual audience?
Hi, Chair. We have a hand up from Caitlin Arcand. She's allowed to speak.
Hi, could you please state your name and spell for the court stenographer?
My name is Caitlin, C-A-I-T-L-I-N, Arcand, A-R-C-A-M-D.
You swear or affirm to tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth?
Are you a neighbor?
are you in favor of this or against the project i'm opposed to it i don't think it's a good idea
um we have a rental property directly next door to us um and it was it's easily rented out
consistently over the past 13 years um there is no reason to have an airbnb we have a very
quiet block very peaceful block and lots of kids on the block and i don't think that um and it's
all families it's all uh you know just very yeah i think it would just bring a different
a different atmosphere to the block thank you very much for taking the time to cause
is there anyone else in the audience
anyone else
No hands at this time, Chair.
no hands at this time chair okay planning commission
Planning Commission.
This is Ron Bednar, City Planning.
The property is indicated for residential use on the city plan.
Our adopted comprehensive plan recommends no change to the existing single-family zoning at this location.
There's no unique physical condition nor circumstances of the property that would prevent it from being used in conformity with the code.
City Planning Commission recommends that the board deny proposed use variants for visitor accommodation.
MI 2024-000-429-1932 in Manton Street, I vote no.
Michael Johns, my vote is no.
Cheryl Gaston, my vote is no.
Tanetta Graham, my vote is no.
I am Wynn, my vote is no.
Thank you, Council.
Thank you, members of the board. Good evening.
Good evening. Number eight, MI 2024-002-874-6913 Tulip Street. Sean Ward is the attorney.
Sean Ward has been allowed to speak.
And my panelist, oh, there we go. There you go. Mr. Ward.
Good evening, Chair. I'm trying to figure out how to get my picture down and go live, but I can't seem to find it. Nor can I – oh, wait, Darius, hold on.
Is he a panelist?
Yeah, you should be coming back in as a panelist now.
Okay, thank you.
Okay, I'm back.
Hi, Arias.
Mr. Ward, state your name, please, and spell for the court stenographer.
Sean Ward, S-H-A-W-N, last name W-A-R-D, Esquire, attorney for Lewis and Antoinette Iataroa,
I-A-T-A-R-O-L-A
husband and wife,
owners of the property.
Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth?
Oh, yeah. Go ahead. I'm sorry.
Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth,
the whole truth, and nothing but the truth?
I do, and I also
waive and stipulate.
Okay. Please proceed.
Thank you.
Let's go to exhibit packet.
Share.
uh just to confirm my screen is shared yep awesome uh i've submitted my typical exhibit packet
um which i'm going to blow up a little bit so you can see it uh again i represent the lewis
and antoinette ayaterola husband and wife owners of 6913 tulip street at the calendar number ending
in 2874 as previously identified by the board. My exhibit packing includes A1 notice of refusal.
This is an application for a permit for use as a business and professional office in an existing
structure. No signs on this application. The use is not permitted in RSA3. Accordingly,
we seek a use variance today. A2 is the ZBA application of appeal. A3 project information
form. A4 is the deed and deed history search. A5 is proof of text clearance. A6 is a plot plan
from Atlas on file under this property. Our photographs include posting, subject property,
street views, aerial views, and some interior photos. A8 is my RCO meeting notice and certificate
of mailing. With regard to the RCO, this was originally assigned to Tech Coney Civic.
I'm sure the board is aware that they had some upheaval or some internal problems.
Accordingly, the Sixth District Council took over as the RCO and assigned to Mayfair for purposes
of holding the public meeting. So we don't have a letter from Mayfair because they chose not to
right one, they deferred to the council office. However, they did host the meeting, if that makes
any sense to everybody. So even though it says pending, we did receive a letter from Councilman
Jericho's office, and I have that as a separate attachment here. With regard to the relevant
zoning history, the only thing I can find is since 1962, this property had a variance for use
This property was used, had a variance for use to permit the sale and distribution of safety equipment, of course, with an accessory office.
to permit the sale.
No changes or other permits were filed for the property since then.
And the photographs will show that this is certainly not a single family dwelling of any sort that would be used in RSA 3.
With regard to relevant L&I history, again, nothing was found.
And A13 is the zoning map.
A14 is the area.
And in quick summary, hold on a second.
I'm going to get this thing out of the way.
Put it up top.
The Iotirola family operated an appraisal company in Taconi for decades.
Their previous location was the Taconi Music Hall, located a block away at 4817 Longshore.
They preserved, you know, renovated, preserved and maintained that Tech Honey Music Hall for decades.
And that is actually where the Tech Honey Civic used to meet.
Lou Iatirola Jr., who was with me tonight, but had to leave to pick up his grandchildren.
He waited as long as he could. But Lou was actually the zoning chair for Tech Honey forever.
Um, you know, some, some members, uh, Cheryl, uh, Gaston might even remember, uh, uh, the name,
but, uh, they relocated to 6913 Tulip Street in 2017 following the sale of the music hall.
Uh, they've operated this business office at, uh, that property at Tulip Street since 2017 until
present. Uh, the reason they're looking to sell the property is, uh, uh, Lou Senior is looking
to retire. And young Lou has certain medical issues that it just doesn't make sense to hold
on to the property and they'd rather go into retirement, sell it and move on. So again,
this appeal was reassigned for Taconi to Mayfair for RCO meeting purposes. And we're just looking
to get confirmation of the use as a business and professional office for the current existing use.
So quickly, we have, let me zoom back out. This is our refusal, application of appeal,
project information form, my transmittal letter filing the appeal.
This is the deed shown that it was purchased in 2017.
Um, I, I, I did the, the, the deed history because there's been three owners or four
owners since 1962.
So this property has not changed hands.
Um, I believe there was a, uh, uh, an easement granted to Bell Telephone Company back in,
uh, you know, 1962.
Um, but other than that, it's, it's changed hands up until the Ayatollahs who now have
it up for sale.
But they'd rather sell it confirming that it can be used as a office for business or professional purposes.
Our tax clearance. This is the the deed map. This property consists of three parcels.
The one highlighted in blue is the actual building. And then there's two other parcels next to it, which are basically the parking lot with some outbuildings.
here's a picture of our posting in the subject property as you can see
it's clearly not a single family home again our posting
as you can see the lot is fenced in this would be coming in the front entryway
steps going up to the city offices here's your uh you know your general uh secretarial uh you know
pool. Lou Senior's office in the back. A little kitchenette for the employees. Conference room.
Here's an aerial photograph. You can see the red dot is the subject property with our lot next
door. And we have some outbuildings, you know, a shed and a garage. Another aerial. This is a view.
The property is here on the left, looking at, I guess that's north on Tolop.
And here's looking at it the other way.
The property is on the right, looking back the other way.
And an aerial photograph.
As you'll see, this purple dot over here is the, you know, the original Takuna Music Hall.
They sold that and relocated, if they're purchasing this property, you know, a block away.
This is our RCO meeting notice to the following addresses, totaled 69 addresses, according to the RCO notification map.
This is our RCO meeting notice.
Here's our certificate of bulk mailing to, it went up to 70 because we added my office and the Civic.
blue circulated the best he could a petition of support but i would point out that
uh 6917 the adjoining property signed off as did 6914 located directly across the street
and then some other properties on tool of longshore keystone all within the you know walking
distance a block or so and then i attached the zoning history again um it was for the
The sale and distribution of safety equipment, accessory sign in office, whereas that was not permitted in the district.
And again, that was 1962. And I'm not quite sure how long Pendergast safety equipment was there, but it was for quite some time.
Here's the L&I history. Again, nothing found, no certifications, no investigations, no licenses, no permits.
zoning map although it is rsa3 we are very close to cmx2 which this use would probably
be permitted as a matter of right if we were in one of these other structures
and again one final aerial photograph not to belabor the point but the iatrols have been
institutions in Taconi for two generations. And at this point, Mr. Iterol is looking to retire
and they want to sell this property, but they want proper zoning on it before they turn it over
to somebody else. And again, it'd be limited to business and professional use. And again,
And the adjoining property owner at 4917 is on board, as is the neighbor directly across the street.
Other than that, we have nothing else.
Lou Ayatral, a junior, was here.
But again, he had to go pick up his grandchildren.
It's a parent-teacher conference tonight, so he's babysitting.
You're an officer of the court.
We'll take your testimony, Mr. Schoenberg.
Awesome.
That's all I have.
And I know the hour is getting late, so I won't drag it out any longer.
Questions from the board?
I have a question.
So I'm wondering if you're saying that your client is retiring and that the plan is to put the building up for sale,
why change the zoning from single family on a block that's mostly single family?
Because this property has never been used as a single family.
and uh it's not set up as a single family home there's you know there's no bedrooms there's no
bathrooms there's no showers there's no full kitchen um you know it's set up as office and
we just want to confirm that office use so that way a a knowing buyer comes in at an arm's length
deal and knows that they're getting a property that is properly zoned as an office which it's
currently, you know, established as for since, you know, the 60s.
Other questions?
Questions or comments from our attorney, Hillary Emerson?
Not at this time, Mr. Chair.
I'm sorry.
I just want to confirm that.
Hillary, you received a letter from Councilman Driscoll's office, correct?
Yes, we did.
Thank you.
I forgot to screen share that.
I apologize.
questions or comments from the virtual audience there are no no hands at this time chair any
commission sir ron bednar city planning property is currently indicated residential use on the city
plan given the documented use history and site physical conditions we we have no objection to
the granting of the requested professional office use variance. MI 2024 002 874 6913 Tulip Street,
I vote yes. Michael Johnson, my vote is yes. Charles Gaston, my vote is yes. Tanetta Graham,
my vote is yes. Iowyn, my vote is yes. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Have a great evening.
Thank you. Is there anyone in the virtual audience whose case has not been called?
Thanks, everyone. Thank you very much. Thanks, everyone. Sorry about the late hours.
All right. Thank you. Good job, everybody.
We got a lot of long cases today that we got out of our way, so thank you all.
Long cases today that we got out of our way.
So thank you all.
And by the way, thanks to the staff.
I know you guys.
Yes, thank you, Stan.
Thank you, guys.
Thank you.
See you, everybody.
Good night, everyone.
See you later.
Good night.
Good night, everyone.
Good night.