There is no excuse for treating a person disrespectfully, period. There just isn't, whether a person is, you know, a decent, law-abiding citizen, a person that's committed a crime. Whatever the situation may be, there's just no excuse for a police officer to do that, period. And it's not going to be tolerated. Now, what are some of the things that we're doing aside from just, obviously, investigating complaints that are made and taking serious action.
Right. COMM. RAMSEY: One of the things that I mentioned earlier in my testimony is police service areas, PSAs. What that basically does is divide districts into either halves or thirds, where we deploy the same officers every day along with their supervisors. You got to get to know 371 4/20/09 - COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE - FY '10 BUDGET the people that are in the community that you serve.
Right. COMM. RAMSEY: You can't do it running from 9-1-1 call to 9-1-1 call all day long; it just doesn't work. Putting rookies out on foot patrol initially. Don't get started in your career by going from one crime scene to another where something's always wrong. A person's either been a victim of a crime or they've committed a crime or whatever; you don't get -- drive by a thousand good folks to get to the one that's got the problem. So, you know, those are the kinds of things that will change attitudes. We give about 85 hours now in service training -- not in-service, recruit training toward diversity and so forth, but we've got to step that up with our in-service, our MPO training, because you know, you can't get 85 hours in an academy and think that's going to last you 372 4/20/09 - COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE - FY '10 BUDGET 30 years; it just doesn't happen.
Mm-hmm. COMM. RAMSEY: So we've got to find ways to enhance our dialogue with people to better understand the differences that exist between us and also, you know, celebrate diversity as opposed to having, you know, attitudes and using inappropriate language and all of the kinds of things that have recently come to light. So those are the kinds of things that we're talking about. I had a meeting not too long ago with -- Councilwoman Miller was in attendance with some of our elected officials. (Timer bell rings.) COMM. RAMSEY: I had one Friday with Bilal Quyuum from Father's Day Rally to talk about the different ways that we can set up dialogues between police and community and small groups where we can actually talk about these issues. Maybe 373 4/20/09 - COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE - FY '10 BUDGET get a radio station to be involved and airing it live and getting people to comment online. But really open up lines of communication to better understand from both sides. And we've had an unfortunate year with five officers killed in about eleven months. We've had police shootings that have taken place, and there's a lot of tension out there, and I'm very sensitive and aware of it. And we've got to do some very strong things and positive things to bring that back to where it needs to be.
Thank you. Commissioner -- DEP. COMM. GAITTENS: If I could have just one more minute to throw something else in? 'cause I think it's important.
Oh, absolutely. DEP. COMM. GAITTENS: On the proactive side, Jane Golden and the Mural 374 4/20/09 - COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE - FY '10 BUDGET Arts, they have a Cops and Kids Program, and it's outstanding. It actually brings the youth in the neighborhood, you know, to 17, years old. They get together 6 with the cops and they talk about their 7 feelings for each other. 8 And it starts out rocky. Just 9 about all of the sessions that they have, 10 you know, there's a little mistrust or 11 they don't particularly care about, you 12 know, associating with the police. 13
Right. 14 DEP. COMM. GAITTENS: But as 15 they get to know each other over the weeks 16 and work together on the Mural Arts 17 Program, they get to understand each 18 other's perspectives. And, you know, you put yourselves a little empathy, you put yourselves in their positions. And we're having great success with that. So I -- we are very much in favor of the Cops and Kids Program.
Okay. Can you -- and I don't know if you have a 375 4/20/09 - COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE - FY '10 BUDGET point person on this Neighborhood Initiatives or whatever we want to call it, 'cause I think -- I know a number of the other Councilmembers have these issues in their districts, and if there's an opportunity, 'cause, you know, we want to -- we're a team. COMM. RAMSEY: Yes.
We're a team, and we got to make sure that, you know, if you don't know people or we don't know people, we need to be able to have a forum where they may feel more comfortable if I call 'em in or another Councilmember says, "Come on, guys. Sit down," you know, 'cause these are guys that are, like, from the 15- to 22-year range. COMM. RAMSEY: Right. Well, the plan is to definitely keep you involved. Deputy Commissioner Ross is basically my point person. A lot of this I've done myself and will continue to be personally involved, but I'm relying very heavily on Deputy Commissioner Ross to be 376 4/20/09 - COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE - FY '10 BUDGET the one to kind of keep this ball rolling --
All right. COMM. RAMSEY: -- and make sure it takes place along with his -- the deputies he has on his staff.
All right. I have his cell phone number. Okay. Thanks, Commissioner. Thank you. Thank you, Madam President.
You're welcome. The Chair recognizes Councilwoman Miller.
Thank you. Thank you, Madam President. Good afternoon. How you guys doing? DEP. COMM. GAITTENS: Fine, ma'am.
Great. I wasn't in the room but I did hear you on the intercom downstairs. 377 4/20/09 - COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE - FY '10 BUDGET Someone did ask a question regarding YVRP, but I have a couple questions regarding that program also. And I do want to thank you, Commissioner, for meeting with us last week. And we do understanding that this is going to be ongoing dialogue, because I have some groups in mind of young people that I think you can come out -- some police officers can come out and talk to. And that'll help open up dialogue with some of the younger folks, 'cause they are the ones that grab our ears all the time, talking about their inability to communicate with the police officers. In one part of the budget, it looks like you're eliminating YVRP, but then, in another part, it says that the operating budget for Fiscal Year 2010 appropriations for YVRP is 1.65 million, of which 500,000 is for Class 200, purchase of services. If that is the case, what will the $1 million in Class 100 and the 378 4/20/09 - COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE - FY '10 BUDGET $500,000 in Class 200 be used for? DEP. COMM. ROSS: Deputy Commissioner Richard Ross. And our grant guru is basically tell me that's merely a new grant, Councilwoman.
So you lost the funding from the old grant? 'Cause it's eliminated -- $173,739 is eliminated. And that's on , Section 43 of the budget, but then it picks up again on . COMM. RAMSEY: , ma'am?
Yes, 52, Section 43 of the Operating Budget. Then it states the loss or the elimination of 173. And then on , Section 43, it states that you'll have the 2010 appropriations of $1.65 million. DEP. COMM. GAITTENS: Yes, ma'am. And we apologize for this. The way that this budget is worked out this 379 4/20/09 - COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE - FY '10 BUDGET year, because we are closing down one responsibility division and creating a new one, it's in a separate division. If you look at the top of the page in the upper right-hand corner, you'll see that says "Operation Division 21," and on , it's Operation Division 34.
Right. DEP. COMM. GAITTENS: So it switched from one division up into the Field Ops. The amount of money is correct; it is $1,150,000, and that will be for personal services. That's . It's basically the same grant, and it is for the same purposes. Before, there was more funding for it.
Okay. You know, I thought that, but I wasn't really sure because you eliminate it, then you -- DEP. COMM. GAITTENS: It's because we closed out that one responsibility division, and now it's in a 380 4/20/09 - COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE - FY '10 BUDGET new responsibility division.
Okay. DEP. COMM. GAITTENS: It is very confusing this year.
So now, if you have it in Class 100, what exactly does that mean? I mean... DEP. COMM. GAITTENS: Class 100 covers salaries and for overtime.
Right, but it -- DEP. COMM. GAITTENS: And as for the YVRP, it's primarily overtime.
Right, but you're not going to hire police to do that, right? It's not going to be Police Department personnel. Isn't this a program that's normally run by outside agencies, or will some of the City agencies run part of this? DEP.
Good afternoon, Councilwoman. No, you have a -- it's a joint effort. You do have police officers that 381 4/20/09 - COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE - FY '10 BUDGET are working with the program, and primarily, they use overtime in order to staff it; that's what's reflected there. You also have PAN, and you also have probation officers from the First Judicial District working in conjunction as well. So this is a team effort. You also have the District Attorney's Office and other partners that make up YVRP. And this is just one portion of it. But they reflect a lot of the grant-spending here so that you can see and track what monies are being allocated where.
Okay. So that does include people from various City departments. DEP. COMM. GAITTENS: That's correct.
Okay. I just wanted to make sure of that. Plus I'm really glad that -- you know, I think YVRP is a good program, and 382 4/20/09 - COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE - FY '10 BUDGET I've certainly heard other people talk about it being a good program too. I just wanted to make sure it was still going to be around. How long do you think the new On-Street Action Operation Pressure Point is going to continue? Is that going to be -- COMM. RAMSEY: Through October.
Through October? COMM. RAMSEY: This is the plan now. We have different agencies 15 involved -- federal, state, and, of 16 course, local. And through the end of 17 October is what we're looking at now for that particular operation. This is the second weekend. Just completed this past Friday and Saturday.
Well, I know last weekend, you did the 39th Police District -- COMM. RAMSEY: Yes. 383 4/20/09 - COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE - FY '10 BUDGET
-- which part of it is in my district. I think Councilman Clarke -- do you have part of the 39th, Curtis Jones?
Okay, great. So basically, it's there for the warm weather? COMM. RAMSEY: Yes, absolutely.
Okay, all right. And, you know, we heard a lot about Stop-and-Frisk when -- (Timer bell rings.)
-- Mayor Nutter was just concluding his mayoral run and then when you came. Have you really implemented it? I mean, I do know that there was something that was going on that was like a Stop-and-Frisk anyway, but I haven't heard anything about Stop-and-Frisk. As much as we heard about it then, now you don't hear anything about it. 384 4/20/09 - COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE - FY '10 BUDGET COMM. RAMSEY: Stop, Question and Frisk has really been a tool that's used by police since the mid-1960s, 1964, I believe --
Right. COMM. RAMSEY: -- is when it first was decided by the Supreme Court. We did last year increase the number of pedestrian stops by 56 percent, 215,700 versus the 138,300 the year before. But even though we increased the number of pedestrian stops and vehicle stops by another 13 percent, the number of complaints against police only rose 7 percent. So we did a lot of upfront training to make sure officers knew when it was appropriate to use that particular tool. And we also constantly and continue today to place a lot of emphasis on knowing who the individuals are that are known to carry guns and known to commit crimes.
Okay. 385 4/20/09 - COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE - FY '10 BUDGET
Thank you. The Chair recognizes Councilman Jones.
Thank you, Madam President. And I would like to just clear for the record that I have the most diverse district in the City of Philadelphia. Councilman Clarke claimed that, but he was mistaken in that regard. (Laughter.)
I'd like to know, what is the process by which we work with private entities on security by way of providing our officers? How does that work? 386 4/20/09 - COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE - FY '10 BUDGET COMM. RAMSEY: Is it the reimbursable overtime that you're talking about?
Yes. DEP. COMM. GAITTENS: All right. An entity will go to the district captain and say they want to hire a police officer. The district captain will meet with person and basically tell them what the ground rules are. Our officer will go out there and they will perform the functions as delineated by the contract. However, they are under the understanding that if something comes out, out on the street, a robbery or a burglary or something, and it happens in front of the officer, he's leaving that entity and he's going to take care of police business the way he should. We don't act as bag-checkers at X-location or whatever, but they act as police officers while they're out there. They have 'em -- if it's the very first time that they are being used 387 4/20/09 - COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE - FY '10 BUDGET but they intend to have an ongoing relationship with the Department, they will have to pay 50 percent upfront. And if it's a first-time-only time, they would have to pay one hundred percent upfront. Other than that, people who have an ongoing relationship with the Department and are paying their bills on time, they just get billed as they normally would.
What is our current outstanding receivable based on private-collection entities like that? DEP. COMM. GAITTENS: All right. As of right now, for Fiscal Year '09, there was $16.5 million billed out. Of that, we've collected $10,905,974, which basically means there's about $4 million left outstanding out there. I know this is near and dear to Councilman Rizzo's heart. (Laughter.) DEP. COMM. GAITTENS: But of that amount -- I just want to clarify 388 4/20/09 - COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE - FY '10 BUDGET that. Of that amount, $3.2 million is basically government; it's the State of Pennsylvania that owes us that money. And it's not really all overtime. We get reimbursed for police recruits in the Academy; we get that reimbursement from the MPO Commission. That's all lumped into there together. And if you look at where we've been historically with the collections, in Fiscal Year '07, it was abysmal. Excluding the government, we only had a 71.3 percent collection rate. Now, councilman Rizzo became involved in this and he focused attention on the program. And in Fiscal Year '08, it improved and went up to 82.4 percent in collection rate. This year, I'm happy to say, we have a 91.1 percent collection rate for the non-governmental entities. Now, speaking of government, it's not to say that, you know, $3.2 million doesn't matter; it's very important that we collect that money. 389 4/20/09 - COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE - FY '10 BUDGET And our personnel are being much more aggressive with the State. We've been in contact with them twice already this week, and we are going to follow up with that. You know, traditionally, the feeling has been that government is good pay, it's just slow pay. And it's on us because we've accepted that, that they're slow pay. Well, we're not going to accept that, that it's slow pay, anymore. We're going to go after them a little more aggressively. I mean, 91 percent is a good -- it's a good percentage rate, I'm happy with that. But next year, it's going to be a lot better. So that's the focus now.
If the Revenue Department could get 91 percent pay, we wouldn't have a deficit. So we appreciate your efforts. And I was curious as to how we do it and how we actually collect on that. 390 4/20/09 - COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE - FY '10 BUDGET Thank you, Madam President.
I wasn't going to bring it up 'cause we had a nice conversation with the Revenue Department. DEP. COMM. GAITTENS: It's an important topic.
But, Commissioner Gaittens, I was kind of disappointed that the Revenue Department didn't seem to be as in the loop on this thing. And I know you guys asked for a tape of that, but they don't seem to be as engaged in this process as I was led to believe. DEP. COMM. GAITTENS: Well, so I'll just say that -- I will say collecting from the government entity, that will be on us; we'll take responsibility for that.
Okay. Because I think I caught 'em a little short on that. And I even in that tape -- 391 4/20/09 - COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE - FY '10 BUDGET I'm sure you looked at it -- said let the Police Department do what they do and you guys do -- you know, you do what you do, collect money from people that owe us money. But congratulations. That's a good move forward. DEP. COMM. GAITTENS: And Deputy Mayor Gillison has been involved in this process. And we are looking to move forward. As you know, we are looking to going into e-billing and the ACH, the automatic clearinghouse. So there is a lot, using technology, that we can do to move forward here and make it a lot better. It just makes sense that people should be able to pay by credit card. One of the Commissioner's favorite examples is: The young people out there today, some of 'em have never heard of a checkbook; they wouldn't know how to balance one if there life depended on it. They have their credit card, they 392 4/20/09 - COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE - FY '10 BUDGET go online, they e-bill, and there it is; it's all over and done.
That's right. DEP. COMM. GAITTENS: We can't do that right now. It just makes sense for us to get into that technology. Then you have the money right then. There is no collection, there is no playing around; you got the money.
Thank you. The Chair recognizes Councilman Kenney.
Thank you, Madam President. Commissioner and Mr. Gillison and Deputy Commissioner Gaittens, every year, as the weather breaks from the winter to the spring and early summer, we have an onslaught of kind of lower- level nuisance activity that doesn't always rise to the level of a 9-1-1 call, but that's 393 4/20/09 - COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE - FY '10 BUDGET the only place, up until recently, that people had to call. So in every neighborhood in the City, when kids are out there getting their spring fever and drinking their beer and causing noise and trouble, people dial 9-1-1. But in busier parts of the City, that call often winds up relegated to the lower end of the response. And if they do respond, oftentimes they're gone on arrival or there's nothing showing. Recently, we've had a meeting with 3-1-1 and your people relative to the kind of interface to allow neighborhood constituents not only to call 9-1-1, which they should do, but to have the ability to call 3-1-1. And the reason that it was raised was because we wanted to have the PhillySTAT information available at COMPSTAT meetings for police captains to see just what kind of activity there is in their neighborhood that may not be a robbery or a burglary or a rape but is 394 4/20/09 - COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE - FY '10 BUDGET nonetheless annoying to the constituents. Could you give me an idea as to where we may be in that interface? COMM. RAMSEY: Well, 3-1-1, even though it's relatively new, is making some very, very good progress in a lot of areas. The majority of the calls that are referrals that we've gotten have been for abandoned autos, but it can be far more than just abandoned autos. As you mentioned, teens gathering or drinking or what have you, those kinds of things are still going into 9-1-1 but can go into 3-1-1 for a referral, especially if they're chronic problems that, you know, just continue over time. It really would take some of the burden off the three million-plus calls we got on the 9-1-1 system last year. So we're continuing to work with 3-1-1. I think that they've done -- and I've been in -- this is the third city that I have been in that's implemented a 395 4/20/09 - COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE - FY '10 BUDGET 3-1-1, and I think that, actually, Philadelphia's a little further along than the others in terms of what they've been able to do so far. But it will grow as people become more familiar with it. As people -- you know, that first impulse is going to be to call 9-1-1, 'cause that's what we've been trained over the last 20-some-odd years. Now we've introduced something new, and it's going to take a minute before people make that distinction. But there's a lot of training and education that's going on right now both by personnel from 3-1-1 as well as our own district captains that go to community meetings and talk to people about what's appropriate for 9-1-1 versus 3-1-1. So right now, it's mostly abandoned autos -- I think 1185 so far this year, at least as of the end of March. 396 4/20/09 - COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE - FY '10 BUDGET
It's a hundred percent, by the way. COMM. RAMSEY: You know --
It's a hundred percent response. COMM. RAMSEY: Yeah, has been abandoned autos, but I do believe that it won't be long before we start to expand that beyond that.
In the same line of thought, a number of years ago, we had a more active night court, community court in the districts than we do have now. Now we have it somewhat more sporadically and not on a regular basis. Part of the problem that the judges complained about early on -- and maybe we could revisit the situation -- is that on the nights that the judge was sitting in the courtroom from 9 o'clock at night till o'clock in the morning, 23 2 o'clock in the morning, there weren't 24 arrests being made or there weren't people 25 being brought in before the judge. And 397 1 4/20/09 - COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE - FY '10 BUDGET they got a little frustrated with, you know, the lack of activity and kind of scaled it down. I know certain District Councilpeople from time to time have had night courts effectively. But when we were doing it on a regular basis, it seemed to be more effective. I recognize your financial constraints and your personnel constraints, but is there any discussion again of maybe trying to jump-start those judges getting back in those neighborhood courtrooms on a Saturday night usually through the spring and summer? DEP.
I can tell you that there was some discussion with Justice McCafferey about this very thing and trying to look at it. Obviously, both from the State level and from our level, as far as payment, we'd have to figure out the economic hit that we would have to deal with. But those are some of the things that we're trying to do either 398 4/20/09 - COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE - FY '10 BUDGET through CJAB to discuss and then put out a workable plan. I think that coupling that with, hopefully, as we get closer to this budget being really examined and where the courts are going to go and how they make up their challenge that they faced as well, where we go is going to be more of a community- based model. And I think that we'll be able to look not just at a specific night court but also have something on a community court basis that will be around a lot longer. And we just won't have what we have now, which is community court in Center City looking one way and not really going out to the districts.
And the effectiveness of the program was the ability to get a parent off the couch or out of bed and come in at o'clock in the morning to explain why their 14-year-old daughter had a 40-ounce malt liquor in her backpack. 399 4/20/09 - COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE - FY '10 BUDGET DEP.
That interaction with the judge and the parent and the child was very, very effective. And so, if you need some help with getting that rolling again, I'm sure there's a number of judges, as in the past, who would like to volunteer for that. The issue for them at the time was the coordination with the captain and the other commanders in the district to get these people picked up, you know, and brought in before the judge. DEP.
Thank you, Madam Chair. I was just doing some quick math in the Field Operations, and it looked to 400 4/20/09 - COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE - FY '10 BUDGET me like there are about 3600 police officers in the field. How much -- do you have any sense of how much of a police officer's time is spent being proactive, walking the beat, et cetera, in the neighborhood, helping Mrs. Jones cross the street, talking to the shop owners in the commercial district versus how much time is spent being reactive? COMM. RAMSEY: Well, one of the things that we're trying to change is the percentage of time people can be proactive versus reactive, which is why we're starting all of our new police officers for that first year on foot, because we need to reestablish foot beats; I think that is probably the best way of getting in contact with the community. It depends on the day -- it depends on the district you're in and the day and the time as to just how reactive versus proactive you can be in terms of volume of calls and such that it doesn't allow for very much other than running 401 4/20/09 - COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE - FY '10 BUDGET from call to call. But my hope is that when we get our patrol service areas and when we really start to settle people down in the PSAs and then have a different strategy in dispatching calls --
I'm sorry, Commissioner. What's a PSA? COMM. RAMSEY: A Police Service Area --
Thank you. COMM. RAMSEY: -- which is something new that we're going to be rolling out in the next few weeks that we will be able to spend more time proactively problem-solving and engaging the community. You know, the foot patrols that we started aren't just about making quality-of-life arrests and things of that nature; they are required to make positive citizen contacts and, you know, knock on doors, go up on porches and hold conversations, visit business owners. 402 4/20/09 - COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE - FY '10 BUDGET You know, I mean, over the years, many departments, including ours, have gotten away from that, and we're moving back toward that. I think that's incredibly important.
Are you familiar with -- is there a point system for police officers that gives them benefits for vacation or other things based on whether or not they've -- you know, arrests they've made or other things that's sort of outside the normal -- COMM. RAMSEY: No. 15
No, there's not? Okay. Of the other cities that you worked in, did they have fitness requirements for police officers -- COMM. RAMSEY: No. 21
-- in Washington and Chicago? COMM. RAMSEY: No. The issue always comes up and it always becomes an union issue in terms of the people that 403 4/20/09 - COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE - FY '10 BUDGET are already on the job. We will have some conversations with the Fraternal Order of Police. In most instances in the cities that we've had some discussions around the table with major city chiefs, that if you put standards like that in place, it would begin with new hires, and then you would have to gradually build it in so that eventually, that would be the entire department, but you'd almost have to grandfather in people that have been around for a while. That's normally the approach that's taken.
Have you seen any other cities move towards that? COMM. RAMSEY: Small jurisdictions, not big ones, that haven't already had it. I mean, some departments never --
We used to have fitness requirements that we no 25 longer have. 404 4/20/09 - COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE - FY '10 BUDGET COMM. RAMSEY: But once you lose it, it's hard to get back. You can't just get it back overnight; you have a very difficult time doing it.
Is there any measurement of how effective the force is as a result of the fitness of the police officers compared to, say, a 6,000-man force with fitness standards? COMM. RAMSEY: I don't know if that's something you can really quantify. I mean, right now, when you take a look at the number of people we have unavailable for duty for various reasons -- sickness, injury, things of that nature -- 6 percent roughly, a little more than 6 percent, is what we're looking at in terms of our force. Many of those officers that are off are because they are fit and they are chasing and jumping over fences and wrestling with people. They're the ones that tend to get hurt. So it's a very difficult things 405 4/20/09 - COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE - FY '10 BUDGET to quantify in terms of whether or not, you know, not that there shouldn't be some kind of standards. But how you go about putting that in place so that you have reasonable standards throughout the department based on, you know, the full range of functions that police officers perform is really the challenge, and that has to be negotiated with the union, and those are terms and conditions of employment.
And what about, like, military-style requirements of meeting a certain height that used to exist in the Philadelphia -- COMM. RAMSEY: Those were thrown out years ago through federal courts and lawsuits that were filed when the standard used to be -- I don't know about here, but in my old agency, it was 5-foot-8, and it virtually eliminated women and many other people. And, you know, so that was at least 20, if not longer, years ago that 406 4/20/09 - COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE - FY '10 BUDGET that was pretty much thrown out. And, quite frankly, thank God. We've got very good police officers that are under 5-foot-8, so...
So of the 3600 people roughly that are police officers in Field Operations, what we used to call Patrol, how many people are walking a beat, on foot patrol? COMM. RAMSEY: Well, right now we've got -- we'll have 256. Right now, we've got the 97, plus each tandem has a veteran officer with 'em. So that would be, what, 130-some-odd people roughly. We'll be adding another 160 June 22nd, when that class graduates, again, with a veteran officer. So we'll have quite a few out on foot patrol.
So you'll have 256 plus 160? You're going to keep the old recruits on foot patrol? COMM. RAMSEY: No, no. The 256 happens after the 160 come out. 407 4/20/09 - COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE - FY '10 BUDGET
Okay. COMM. RAMSEY: Okay, you got 97 now. So they graduate in June. We did this based on targeting specific areas where we've had the highest rate of crimes taking place in public space. We worked with Jerry Radcliffe, Dr. Jerry Radcliffe, from Temple University to identify these areas, working along with Deputy Commissioner Ross and his staff. And that's how we targeted the areas specifically.
You know, taking the train in everyday, I often see under train bridges or in train parking lots or others police cars just sitting there at different times. (Timer bell rings.)
Is there any sort of rule that the Department has about when patrolmen or women can, you know, sit in their car versus, like, having to park somewhere in a neighborhood and walking around at a time when they're not moving? 408 4/20/09 - COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE - FY '10 BUDGET COMM. RAMSEY: If they're not on directed patrol, which would be sitting, specifically 'cause you've got a drug corner or something else going on and you're told to sit there, or making out a report or something of that nature, then they should be mobile, unless they're going to park and get out and actually walk. Now, there's no standard policy around that. Some officers are bike- trained, for an example. So one of the things we're looking at for this summer is to, you know, add the bike racks so you can have your bike with you, and if you can do a little hour or two on a bike patrol, you can do it and then do some vehicle patrol, mix it up a little bit. But there is no standard because a lot of it is driven based on the workload at the particular time.
So, I mean, I do see this all the time, and I know people complain to me about it. Do you 409 4/20/09 - COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE - FY '10 BUDGET think it would be a good idea to put in place a formal policy? COMM. RAMSEY: Well, what's even better would be if you tell me when and where and we'll check it out and make sure that --
Well, I mean, I personally can't -- well, let me put this another way. Are you looking at technology that will be able to track where a car is at any given time that would let you know right away if someone's sitting still versus either moving the car or they've said, "I'm out of my car, I'm on foot patrol"? COMM. RAMSEY: Well, not for that reason, but if we had the vehicle locators, it would be more for safety reasons than anything else, but we don't have that right now. So, again, you know, we have to rely on supervisors to make sure that officers stay active and stay on patrol. 410 4/20/09 - COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE - FY '10 BUDGET And when we find places where people congregate or if they're doing something inappropriate, the more we know about it, then the quicker I can take action as opposed to, you know, hearing about it but then can't really get a handle on it.
Thank you, Madam Chair. Commissioner, I just have a short question. It's about a new program that you have in the Department that's called PPD 20/20. 411 4/20/09 - COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE - FY '10 BUDGET COMM. RAMSEY: Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.
Could you give me a brief description of what that entails. COMM. RAMSEY: Well, it's a strategic plan or a strategic vision to move the Department over the next few years. 20/20 was chosen for the more obvious reasons, you know --
Eyesight. COMM. RAMSEY: -- 20/20, clarity of vision terms, things of that nature, and it's only 11 years away, which, for me, being born in 1950, is kind of hard to believe, but it is only 11 years away. We do have a project. Lieutenant Tom Hires was selected through a panel that looked at several different people who applied for the position. He's going to be the project manager. We're putting together a team. We do have some assistance from the private sector to help us put it together, but we're going to looking at training, 412 4/20/09 - COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE - FY '10 BUDGET we're going to be looking at technology, we're going to be looking at equipment, we're going to be looking at facilities. It's easy to get mired into today's crisis and not really think about what the future holds and how we need to keep pushing this department forward if we really want to see progress.
How many would be on the team? COMM. RAMSEY: Probably about five or six.
Five or six on each team? COMM. RAMSEY: Five or six, and these will be officers of all ranks. We're going to put together a survey. Very soon we'll be going out to department members, taking a look and trying to get their input from their perspective. We'll be doing similar things with the community, to find out from their perspective some of the things that they see. 413 4/20/09 - COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE - FY '10 BUDGET And then we'll start working in certain critical areas. And even though these are some tight budget times, in my opinion, there's never a right time to start trying to plan for the future. You have to start somewhere; we may as well start now. So these are the kinds of things that we're trying to do. That's what PPD 20/20 is all about. If we want the very best department in the country, then we have to work toward achieving that, and that's -- it's going to take a huge effort, but it's all doable.
Thank you. The Chair recognizes Councilman Clarke.
Thank you, Madam President. Gentlemen, now that I have both 414 4/20/09 - COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE - FY '10 BUDGET deputies here, the Deputy Mayor and the Deputy Commissioner, with respects to cameras, I just want to make sure we're all on the same page. COMM. RAMSEY: Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.
And I had actually asked the question earlier, when Deputy Mayor Gillison was here, but the Police Department, I don't think you guys were here. We understand that the issue with respects to the technology was challenging, to say the least, in the last strategy, so now we have a -- what we believe to be the appropriate hybrid model. And I hate to repeat it, but I got to bring it up, and that's the issue about placement as we move forward: One, in terms of our rollout for the next year to reflect what was the earlier viewpoint of the Police Department's in terms of placements, which I agree with quite -- quite vehemently, 415 4/20/09 - COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE - FY '10 BUDGET 'cause when I looked at those locations, I said, Oh, yeah, they know where the crime is. And, two, the Temple University issue. I hate to keep bringing it up but I'm going to keep bringing it up till we get those cameras off that campus. Can we talk about the rollout? 'cause I know we have less money, but how we, in terms of hybrids or -- and then in terms of the Temple University relocation cameras. COMM. RAMSEY: I'll take a part of it and let Deputy Commissioner Gaittens take the other part. We have 84, by the way, that are, as of today, that we have up and running, a combination of wireless and hard-wired. And I think 61 of that number is on the wireless network, and the remainder being a part of the hard wire group. Jack? DEP. COMM. GAITTENS: That's 416 4/20/09 - COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE - FY '10 BUDGET correct. And as you're well aware, Councilman, we did run into engineering issues. The original goal was 250 cameras by October of last year. The current goal right now is 244 cameras by July 1 of this year. I will maintain the same standard that I've always had: If it's not good enough, it's not going to count. A goal is just a goal. As you were saying about the Temple area, that became a part of the challenge.
Deputy, before you go past that, now, the new rollout will reflect the earlier recommendations? DEP. COMM. GAITTENS: That is correct.
And they're not driven by technology but driven by stats. DEP. COMM. GAITTENS: That is correct. 417 4/20/09 - COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE - FY '10 BUDGET
Okay. DEP. COMM. GAITTENS: We've gone back to it 'cause several of the captains have changed in certain districts since that time and we have sent it back out to them. Again, if this is still a location where you need a camera, let us know. Right from the beginning, we said, as a part of the policy, it will be the district commanding officers talking to the people in the community, talking to the businesspeople, the Town Watch groups; they are the ones who deal with the crime in their area and they know best where those cameras need to be.
Right. DEP. COMM. GAITTENS: And so, that's what we're going to do, we're going to go with them. I'm not going to make the determination, the Commissioner's not going make it, we're not going to have outside people picking the cameras.
It will keep us out of it too. 418 4/20/09 - COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE - FY '10 BUDGET DEP. COMM. GAITTENS: Right. The people who run that district know the crime best, and they will tell us where the cameras go, fine. So we went with that concept, we got our list. We ran into the engineering problem, if you will.
All right. DEP. COMM. GAITTENS: But a totally wireless solution was not going to work; the picture quality was just unacceptable. So what we did is, we went with a hybrid solution. The test area was right around Temple University. They had the 12th Jefferson, 13th and Cecil B. Moore, you know, 12th and Girard. They did the cameras out there to test this mesh technology, to see how it would work. And it worked very well. It's doing good, the picture clarity is fine. We have no complaints with it at all, it's working very well. So what we did is, we moved on. 419 4/20/09 - COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE - FY '10 BUDGET And, you know, I guess the camera people consider that low-hanging fruit. They got the cameras up there and --
Extremely low, yeah. DEP. COMM. GAITTENS: We went back to the district captain at the time and said, Well, we want to move these cameras and put them elsewhere. And the district captain said, "Well, actually, I like it there, that is a good area around there, we don't have much crime there, we want to keep it that way. I want the cameras to stay there."
On Temple's campus? DEP. COMM. GAITTENS: No, right out there. And you know what? I said we can't say this is our policy to let the district captain pick where the cameras go and then go back on it. But, to address your situation, Councilman, 'cause I know what the issue is there, as far as the locations go, the 420 4/20/09 - COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE - FY '10 BUDGET upper west end of the, you know, the North Central Division, what used to be the North Central Division, I've worked there years. You're absolutely right; there 6 is a significant need for cameras up in 7 that area. 8 So what the plan is, the pod 9 cameras -- you're aware of them -- the 10 portable, overt, digital-display cameras 11 that are up around Germantown and Erie -- 12
Right. 13 DEP. COMM. GAITTENS: Those 14 cameras have their stand-alones. They are 15 going to be moved out to 31 and Diamond, 31 and Fontaine, 32 and Diamond. Unisys is using a subcontractor to do that. They have told me that that move will be done by the end of April and I have no doubt you will be following up on that and --
Oh, absolutely. DEP. COMM. GAITTENS: And so we've been assured that that will be done. 421 4/20/09 - COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE - FY '10 BUDGET We would like to put a lot more cameras in that area. You're absolutely right; there's a critical need for cameras out there. We don't have access to fiber on that location at this point. And that's the bottom line to that.
If we get the -- what is it, the Cecil B. Moore Library? My understanding is that we have fiber there, at 23rd and Cecil B. -- DEP. COMM. GAITTENS: There's fiber there, there's fiber at Strawberry Mansion. I mean, there is fiber out there but it's not City-controlled. (Indiscernible; parties talking over each other.)
What about the library? Can't we -- that's ours. DEP. COMM. GAITTENS: We're -- I would like to do it, but that's an issue that we have to work out with the School Board or with --
No, this is ours, this is the City's. It's a City 422 4/20/09 - COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE - FY '10 BUDGET library at 23rd and Cecil B. Moore. My understanding it has fiber. And if we can run a hybrid off of that, I mean I'm -- DEP.
I'll be glad to take a look at that because I -- as you know, I've been basically doing this for -- since sitting in the chair. One of the things that we do want to do is really look at the School District fiber, because we really want to have an interoperable system that allows us, especially in emergencies, just to turn the switch. And because of the amount of fiber that's all over, that library fiber, if it's there, I'll have them identify it and I'll tell 'em to bring it right to me.
A real quick follow-up. See, this is where I start losing -- 423 4/20/09 - COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE - FY '10 BUDGET DEP.
'Cause we've had that conversation a few months ago about both the School District, Strawberry Mansion, which is a very hot area. DEP.
The school itself and the library. And now I'm hearing you say the same thing, so it doesn't seem like we made any progress. DEP.
No, the School District we have not because we're at -- we're still in discussion because they have made their point and we're making our point.
I mean, we're talking about a safety issue, okay? DEP.
And I know 424 4/20/09 - COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE - FY '10 BUDGET the principal. DEP.
And if it's my desire, I cannot believe that she would not support putting -- DEP.
It's not that level. This is a federal contracting level that we have to deal with.
-- that we have to deal with. And there is an opinion that basically says we can't use their fiber and want to use it.
You need a waiver from the feds to say it's okay. DEP.
Who is 425 4/20/09 - COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE - FY '10 BUDGET working on that? DEP.
We have a couple of people. And in my office, I have my chief of staff working on it, Mr. Resnick, who's working on trying to get the agreement. We're also pushing it up to our Congressional delegation.
Who is -- if you don't mind me asking -- (Indiscernible; parties talking over each other.)
-- who are they working with from the federal level? DEP.
'Cause this conversation is really getting a little stale about this camera. DEP.
And I know that the person that's over in the School District is obviously Jim Golden who is the security person over there. He wants the same thing we want, which is to use the fiber. 426 4/20/09 - COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE - FY '10 BUDGET
Yes. The Chair recognizes Councilman Green for a point of information.
Thank you. Thank you, Madam Chair. Excuse me, Councilman Clarke.
Who have you spoken to in our Congressional delegation? DEP.
Okay. So his 427 4/20/09 - COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE - FY '10 BUDGET office is working on this. DEP.
I have -- and I know that we have had our persons that are our Congressional -- what do you call them, the people that advocate for us?
I know, I understand, but we -- you know, we've asked our lobbyists also to make sure that we have this with that, and I've spoken directly with the Mayor about it, and the Mayor actually knows about it.
That -- right off the top of my head, I'll tell you I have get back to you.
Okay. If you 428 4/20/09 - COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE - FY '10 BUDGET could provide that to the Chair. DEP.
And also a point of information with respect to the original contract with Unisys. I just want to recharacterize what happened, deputy Commissioner Gaittens having been in the very business of providing video surveillance for a number of years. What happened was, there was a contract for 250 cameras. They provided a certain amount of high-site towers for those cameras. The specs called for 225 of the contracts to cameras to be fixed, the other to be moving. 18 It's a simple physics, 19 engineering question. If you make all of 20 the cameras able to move that you apply to 21 the same high-site tower, you're not going 22 to have the bandwidth. It's not a 23 question of the technology, whether 24 wireless or wired or WiFi or copper or 25 whatever. 429 4/20/09 - COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE - FY '10 BUDGET It is a question of the amount of bandwidth that you've dedicated to those cameras. And if you keep moving 'em around, you're not going to have enough bandwidth for the one high tower to make the cameras work. So the problem -- I mean, the problem is not quite how you characterize it. It's that when the specs were changed, they didn't change the amount of bandwidth that was going to be available wirelessly. So that caused the problems. So with respect to Councilman Clarke's position, not every camera has to be -- DEP. COMM. GAITTENS: That's correct?
-- wired or fiber. You could get far many more cameras out there if you're willing to go with high-resolution, fixed-position cameras and using a combination of wired and wireless. You could deploy them much more quickly and it would be far less 430 4/20/09 - COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE - FY '10 BUDGET expensive to deploy. And I just -- because you're only talking about pixel change events, it gets sent back. I throw that out there. If you want to deploy lots of cameras, that is the most effective, inexpensive way to get cameras on corners. And even if you had 'em looking at four corners like that instead of one that went there, it would be cheaper because you've got fixed cameras, which are cheap and you're only sending back pixel changes, so you don't need the bandwidth. And you have high sites all throughout the City that the City has access to at the moment. So this problem is a problem that we can solve very inexpensively and very quickly if we just kind of look at the problem differently, I think. And if the goal is to have cameras out there, then maybe we just need to sort of relook at the specs again. And I just throw that out there 431 4/20/09 - COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE - FY '10 BUDGET as a suggestion. DEP. COMM. GAITTENS: Okay.
Madam President, if you'll just allow me a little leeway on the follow-up. 'Cause I'm really -- and, you know, I'm a very easygoing guy. DEP.
But this whole issue about not getting authorization from the feds, and I really had that conversation with you last year, all right? And I had a conversation with members of the Administration about the rec center -- I'm sorry, the library at Cecil B. Moore. And it doesn't sound like this is any further along than that conversation, so I'm concerned about the commitment of getting that done. So I'm 432 4/20/09 - COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE - FY '10 BUDGET not hearing from you today that there has been any progress, and I'm a little concerned about who is actually working on this -- DEP.
I mean, I don't understand why it's that difficult. DEP.
The bottom line -- and I will tell you, on the issue of the school matter, that's something that is with me, and that's what I'm -- I'm pushing that matter. You brought the matter to my attention as far as the library, you brought that to my attention today.
-- months ago. (Indiscernible; parties talking over each other.) 433 4/20/09 - COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE - FY '10 BUDGET
That's my problem about this disconnect and this hierarchy, this whole org chart. I keep talking about every time we come here, and it's, like, this person on the org chart doesn't know what that person's doing. And I keep having these conversations, it's getting frustrating, frankly speaking, 'cause I keep talking about these cameras, and I'm going to keep talking about 'em until somebody figures out a way to get the police to support they need. This is a simple matter. I mean, it's, like, put some cameras up. And, you know, the worst-case scenario is somebody will go around the corner; they just won't freely commit a crime. I mean -- but the fact that we -- you know, we got a camera at 15th and Cecil B. Moore and you got two cameras on Temple's building, you got a 24-hour manned booth, and we put a camera on that. And it's, like, ridiculous. So I'm almost 434 4/20/09 - COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE - FY '10 BUDGET like --
But I -- and, again, as I said to you before, on the cameras, if you have a question, there wasn't a org chart issue. It is -- if there's a question about it, I've always said please tell me because --
But I -- (Indiscernible; parties talking over each other.)
We had a meeting, you couldn't make; I understand it was a family issue. You sent a person who had no clue about what I was talking 435 4/20/09 - COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE - FY '10 BUDGET about; I let that go by. And then we had a follow-up conversation, then you talked about the school issue. DEP.
And that was, like, last year. It's, like, the end of April. DEP.
Again, that issue is something that I thought we would be able to have done by now, and we haven't, and I'm still working on that. So, yes, I'm being held accountable; I have no problem with that. We are going to get that matter resolved. But that's just not something that I can say when I'm going to have a waiver from the federal government. I'm working on it. As soon as I can, I'll be able to tell you about that. Believe me, I want to because I don't want these things to be hanging out there. But that I look at as my responsibility, and as soon as I'm able to 436 4/20/09 - COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE - FY '10 BUDGET resolve that, Councilman, believe me, I'll be the first one to tell you.
Councilman Clarke, I believe Councilwoman Miller had a point of information.
Hi. I just want to do a follow-up on the cameras. I understand Councilman Clarke's frustration, but have we put any cameras up at all? DEP.
Oh, yes, absolutely. When we -- last year at this time we had four, I believe. Right now, we're up to 84, and we have a plan that will get it up to 250 by, I believe -- COMM. RAMSEY: 244. DEP.
244 by the end of July. COMM. RAMSEY: This fiscal year. DEP.
Okay, 437 4/20/09 - COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE - FY '10 BUDGET good. I've been talking to Joe James. DEP.
So -- and I -- and, you know, this is a whole process. DEP.
And I would just hope that whoever made the decision to put Councilman Clarke's camera up at 15th and Cecil B. Moore, when you've got all these other cameras of security set up around there, would not make that kind of decision in the 8th Council District, because, you know, I work along with the police captains, and we understand what's going on out there. And according to what's happening with Joe James -- and I do hope that you guys were listening to Councilman Green, because one of our problems in the northwest is that we don't have fiber optic, we don't have -- we're having a problem with hard wiring. And so, if there's a least expensive way to do it. 438 4/20/09 - COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE - FY '10 BUDGET But I know that we're trying to work with where -- like at the library and places that already have some kind of wiring. I don't understand all of the technology; I just know it's not that easy to put up the hardwired cameras in our district. I think Tasco's district is going to have the same problem. Because they explained it, where it stopped, where the wiring stopped -- COMM. RAMSEY: Mm-hmm.