COUNCIL OF THE CITY OF PHILADELPHIA PUBLIC HEARING AND PUBLIC MEETING BEFORE COMMITTEE ON COMMERCE AND ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT - - - Room 400, City Hall Philadelphia, Pennsylvania Monday, 12/10/01 2:25 p.m. - - - RESOLUTION 010218 - Authorizing Committee on Commerce and Economic Development to hold hearings which investigate planning process, the 1997 HOPE VI application, and current proposed development plan for Schuylkill Falls Public Housing Authority site. PRESENT: COUNCILMAN MICHAEL A. NUTTER, Chairman COUNCILMAN DARRELL L. CLARKE COUNCILMAN FRANK DICICCO COUNCILMAN ANGEL L. ORTIZ COUNCILWOMAN BLONDELL REYNOLDS BROWN - - - VINCENT VARALLO ASSOCIATES, INC. Registered Professional Reporters Eleven Penn Center, Suite 600 Philadelphia, PA 19103 (215) 561-2220 12/10/01 COMMERCE & ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT COMMITTEE I N D E X WITNESS Judith Robinson, Real Estate Broker......... Bryant Feggins, Schuylkill Falls Resident... 10 Prince Mohammed, " " " ... 11 Abbe Fletman, Esquire, Partner.............. 34 Wolf, Block, Schorr & Solis-Cohen Counsel for PHA Robert Totaro, Vice President............... 36 Penrose Properties, Inc Shaheid Dawan,Chief Operating Officer....... 36 Universal Community Homes Carolyn Sutton.............................. 87 East Falls Development Corporation 3 12/10/01 COMMERCE & ECON. DEV. - RES. 010218
Good afternoon ladies and gentlemen. The City Council Committee on Commerce and Economic Development -- this is a reconvened hearing from the original hearing regarding Resolution No. 010218. Attending today's hearing is Councilman DiCicco, Vice Chair of the committee; myself, Councilman Nutter, Chair of the committee. Other Councilmembers are on their way. We had established a quorum at the first hearing, so we'll continue with the proceedings. We have the names of a couple individuals who wish to testify. If we don't have your name and you wish to testify at today's hearing, please see the clerk of the committee, Miss Julia Chapman, who is seated to my left. Let her know of your interests at testifying and she'll get your name and put your name on the witness list. We have -- the first witness for today's hearing will be Miss Judith Robinson. (Witness comes forward.)
My name's Judy Robinson. I 4 12/10/01 COMMERCE & ECON. DEV. - RES. 010218 am a licensed real estate broker, and I'm also a resident of North Philadelphia. I am here today to support the people of Schuylkill Falls in their efforts to have diversity in housing in their neighborhood. As a real estate broker, I know a choice piece of land when I see it; it's all about location. And I hope that -- and I encourage you to assist them in any way you can to get multi-use and diversity in housing in that neighborhood. And the reason why I really am quite concerned about this is because in North Philadelphia, where I live, PHA really contributed so much to the conditions that we find our neighborhoods in today. So I really am concerned about how PHA is developing new housing as they have imploded the units that were there in the past. I understood when this project was first put on the boards that things would change. I really am concerned that PHA is allowed to pretty much remain as it was before. And I'll give you an example. Raymond Rosen is the area in which I live -- I live in that area -- and they put in the 5 12/10/01 COMMERCE & ECON. DEV. - RES. 010218 newer developments. It's about nine blocks now that PHA has been spread all over. And I brought along some pictures because I'm concerned about the fact that it's sort of like a concentrated area that these properties were put back into. In addition, I'm concerned about the workmanship and the materials. So I'm not proposing to be a major expert in construction, but when I look at what they put back up, the firewall, etc., it really concerns me that the quality of work and the material is not up to par. So not only do I support these folks getting diversity in housing, but I also am concerned that the condition of the housing that is put back there be of quality, because they're looking forward to trying to build home ownership in the community. So that's just one thing that I would just like you to keep an eye on too, Councilman Nutter, as these properties go back up. There must be some way for them to be mixed use and of quality so that the East Falls community can maintain the value that it has now. I'm sorry, I was looking for my photos 6 12/10/01 COMMERCE & ECON. DEV. - RES. 010218 when I was rushing here to try get before you today, so I might have left them, but I can certainly get them to your office.
Because I'm really concerned that because housing is subsidized that people tend to want to grab the money and kind of throw up anything and leave the community in need, is basically what it looks like will happen. And the firewalls were very thin in the Raymond Rosen units, and they just looked like they are built to house very low-income people that will not be concerned about the quality. In East Falls, I know what they're looking for as far as the mixed income, so people who are homeowners would be more concerned about the quality of material. So if these properties are put up and not put up with the quality that a homeowner would be looking for, I think you probably would have problems even selling them, even in the East Falls area. The bottom line is, I'm just here to support the people of East Falls 'cause I don't want their community to look as North Philadelphia does. 7 12/10/01 COMMERCE & ECON. DEV. - RES. 010218 PHA has really been detrimental to us, as I live the Susquehanna area and PHA is putting up properties without really being concerned about the neighborhood, in my opinion. They're spread out in almost like a concentration camp-type area. So they went from high-rise to laying 'em across nine blocks. I just want to basically make sure that when we look -- talk about transforming neighborhoods and looking for best practices, etc., that we look very closely at PHA what they have become now. And I would just encourage you just to be a watchdog on the project, that any project that goes up, but particularly this project, because I think it's a great location, it's not too far from me in North Philadelphia, so I figure as they go, we can kind of get some of that positiveness too. So I'm just here today to encourage you, if at all possible, to assist them in any way possible to have diversity. And I thank you very much for your time.
Thank you for taking the time. (Applause.) 8 12/10/01 COMMERCE & ECON. DEV. - RES. 010218
I'm sorry, I can't let you go so quickly. We've been joined at the table by Councilwoman Reynolds Brown, and the Councilwoman has a question.
Good morning. You mentioned in your closing comments that high-rises are unacceptable, residences that are spread out across or around the City are unacceptable. What is your preferred approach and/or appearance of PHA presence?
Well, I would suggest that, first of all, some of the people that live in PHA renting could possibly be homeowners. So instead of having everybody there with the same income, the same outlook, renting, that you could offer some of them to purchase. That's the first thing. So it's not so much the house being closely connected, but it's more so having people all of the same income, 9 12/10/01 COMMERCE & ECON. DEV. - RES. 010218 same rental mentality sort of living in the same area, spread out all in the same area together. So I think it breeds sort of the same things that we found in the high-rise basically is what I'm saying because there's nothing really different as far as screening or opportunities to move up, so to speak.
Thank you. Any other questions for Miss Robinson? (No further questions.)
Councilman Ortiz has also joined the committee. I'm going to call the next witnesses together; that's the way the names were given to me. Mr. Jonakin and Bryant Feggins. (Witness comes forward.)
I apologize if I didn't get the pronunciation correctly, but please identify yourself for the record. 10 12/10/01 COMMERCE & ECON. DEV. - RES. 010218
I am here today to speak on behalf of Schuylkill Falls residents. I've been living there for probably 10 years, watching it grow up. It's a beautiful 11 environment. And until probably a couple months 12 ago, I was in the business of selling cars, and I 13 saw that my mom was dedicated into helping everyone 14 get back to the site as well as Mr. Jonakin and Ms. 15 Jonakin, so I decided to come aboard. I'm also a young entrepreneur from the site, in the process of starting my own business, and I would like to see that many more residents get back to work to the site, since this is what the money was, I guess, supposed to be delivered for, the residents; so, therefore, they can get back to the site and work and earn income and purchase, rent and/or both a part of Schuylkill Falls.
Okay, thank you. Please identify yourself for the record.
My name is Prince Mohammed. I think you may have said Melvin Jonakin, so this is for a correction, a name change. This is Prince Mohammed.
I'm here today to speak in reference of -- I was at the last hearing and I was disturbed greatly at the last hearing when we talk more about money for the top of the hill. (Speaker pauses.)
I'm going to wait for Mr. DiCicco. Thank you. When we talk about money at the top of the hill as opposed to speaking towards the residents that were relocated from the site, I have a tremendous issue with us looking at this site other than for the residents of Schuylkill Falls that have been relocated from the site. My issues are, we now have these public hearings, but where were the public hearings when we were getting letters from PHA to relocate after they 12 12/10/01 COMMERCE & ECON. DEV. - RES. 010218 said we could stay on site? Where were the public hearings when we were told down at City Hall, the same place, over a hundred residents to be relocated? Where was the support? Where was the public hearing when we had a pool on a map that was taken off? Where was the public hearings when we had a commercial property that was allocated to the developers based on the revitalizing Schuylkill Falls that was somehow -- that had a meeting and it was somehow removed. You know, when you speak about public hearing, last meeting, we were talking about bricks and mortars, but we didn't talk about the 236 head-of-household and over 700 Democratic African-Americans on that site that was voting over 80 percent turnout, that we had Councilman Ortiz show up and campaign in that area. We didn't talk about that same area that supported Mr. Nutter when he ran for City Council, that same area where the Tenant Council had gotten in the streets to stop drugs, the same area that had those people whose -- however many people that lived up there on that site, come together and take care of their neighborhood in order to be accepted for a HOPE VI 13 12/10/01 COMMERCE & ECON. DEV. - RES. 010218 grant. They understand that they were denied the first time and they had to get they act together, and they did that and they were accepted this time. And every time I come to these public hearings, we don't talk about the interests of the residents; we talk about, Where Carl Greene at? the fiduciary. You don't talk to the developers; you talk at PHA. You don't talk to the Tenant Council; you talk and you ask about PHA. Ask the developers who were taking the opportunity to come forth and work with the Tenant Council and employ some of the residents from Schuylkill Falls so they can get the opportunity to work on that site and join the labor unions and earn some income to have a Christmas. We talk about the top of the hill -- we're not even at the top of the hill yet. We talk about the money for the top of the hill. " Notice Bryant and myself didn't come up here and say "former tenants of Schuylkill Falls"; We say "tenants of 14 12/10/01 COMMERCE & ECON. DEV. - RES. " In 1997, when this grant application was awarded, we were tenants. In the year 2000, we are still tenants of Schuylkill Falls. So this past election, when they told me that the redistricting of all these African-Americans, they now have to register where they've been located for the last year, I was appalled, 'cause they had no place to come back to vote. You can't just get rid of a whole ward of African-American Democratic voters and put 'em somewhere else. They don't have a place to work for on site. You want to send them down to South Philly where they're all the way up to the greater part of Germantown, you want to spread it all the way up to {indiscernible). They can't come back to East Falls, Schuylkill Falls -- they lived there for years, 19 30 years. Imagine taking your mom out her house and 20 relocating her somewhere else after she raised all of her kids there and she lived there through two mortgages. And we come down here and we try to grandstand and appease the surrounding community. We don't do it at the task force meeting, which is 15 12/10/01 COMMERCE & ECON. DEV. - RES. 010218 scheduled the last Thursday of each month. There's no one there, there's no representation there. There's no one there taking our views back. Understanding where we're going with this project right here.
But yet, you take a few people who are able to sit and draw up legal briefs and were able to communicate with their friends and network, social network. You take their views, you take their complaints. You got folks here who are complaining about Schuylkill Falls, and they can't get Schoolhouse Lane fixed no matter what they try to do. Can't get that raggedly street fixed no matter what. And they don't even live -- their street says traffic's not allowed, private property. You can't even go down their streets, and they're here today campaigning that we should rebuild Schuylkill Falls, that we should have blue shingles as opposed to red shingles, that we should have a separation of a 50-unit building that's designed for some of the young grandparents in public housing, you know, the ones that are 40, 45, 50, 55, who have taken on a responsibility of their sons and daughters to raise the kids. That's not fair that's ridiculous. 16 12/10/01 COMMERCE & ECON. DEV. - RES. 010218 And I sat here at the last public hearing, and I thought of all the times that we dealt with this issue, and we never dealt with the residents. We've always dealt with the bricks and mortar, always. And you guys got to support us in a way that we -- this is a subsidized project here, a subsidized, the whole thing is subsidized. This is not Beverly Hills. This project didn't become appealing to anyone at all until the HOPE VI grant had shown up. Now, all of a sudden, they want to make it Carnegie Hall. These folks want to make it Beverly Hills. Somebody just came up here and said, Well, we don't want it to be like Raymond Rosen. Well, Schuylkill Falls was never like Raymond Rosen, it will never be like Raymond Rosen. This young man, myself, about 10 other young men, came out of Schuylkill Falls and furthered our education, and we're back, standing strong. We settled down last year so the residents can work. We had asbestos training, we had pharmacy phlebotomy training. We had a night of candidates where Ortiz and Nesmith and all the other ones came up supported us and talked with us and shared with 17 12/10/01 COMMERCE & ECON. DEV. - RES. 010218 us. State Rep Kathy (indiscernible) came up. So we're human beings. We care about our site, we care about the development of our site. We now have a working relationship with both developers. They may not have been our choice, but we are dealing with the cards that we have been dealt, and we will not allow anyone to shuffle the deck in midstream. They haven't asked us, Come to a task force meeting before you sit here and convene about what you going to do with Schuylkill Falls, as if those people are insignificant and irrelevant. Because, guess what, at this stage, we're not looking for it to stop, we're not liking for it to halt, we're not looking for a intermission, we're not going to take it, we're not going to let -- Surely, who are these people identifying themselves who want this project to stop? Who are the CDCs in that neighborhood? Who are the, all of a sudden, East Falls Business Community, East Falls Committee on Schuylkill Falls? Do they have board members, do they have board insurance? Who do we file a civil suit against when this project stops since they so adamant about stopping this project? And we're not going to let a few folks stop this 18 12/10/01 COMMERCE & ECON. DEV. - RES. 010218 project. Now, do we have the opportunity? You guys know that there were far more residents at Schuylkill Falls than there are present right here. We may be represented by a Tenant Council, but surely, when we put the call out and get a hundred to 200 angry residents who have been forced to move out of their homes, who still have merchandise and items and stuff left in their houses of some kind of sentimental value, we'll get 'em all down here, and we'll be here all day, we'll have to reconvene till January sometime. And you guys have been blessed with not having an opportunity.
You just got a few elite people down here to speak about how the project shouldn't go on, how the blight should stop. This is the same blight that they live next to, this is the same blight area that these folks cleaned up and made it a better area. Have you taken a walk through East Falls lately? Take a look at the benches that they put in the park and all of the little Caucasian kids that sit on 'em and smoke marijuana and drink beer. Take a look at the destruction on Ridge Avenue that none 19 12/10/01 COMMERCE & ECON. DEV. - RES. 010218 of them are telling that you about, that the Schuylkill Falls housing development has cleaned up in their own house. You got a worksite now without us being there than you have when we were there. So we're not about to sit up here and take it on the chin and lay down and let you ridicule and grandstand the developers and Universal and Penrose and keep calling for Carl Greene. He's merely the fiduciary for this project. If you want to know about this project and its success stories, then you ask it to the Tenant Council and you ask the residents. Thank you. )
Let me just ask a couple questions. I mean, obviously, things have gotten better, I guess, from your perspective than -- I seem to recall one time you were trying to access some opportunities up at the site. I think you may have been arrested. I think I had to be in touch with the police about that particular issue while you were in custody in an effort to get some job opportunities and turn things around up at 20 12/10/01 COMMERCE & ECON. DEV. - RES. 010218 Schuylkill. So I think since that time things have gotten better?
You know, I think -- and it's ironic that you would bring that up because if you had a hand in this situation, what I had gone through as an advocate for Schuylkill Falls may not have ever happened, may not have ever happened. If you had had a public hearing prior to me standing up stopping work, then it may have never happened. What you're speaking about is an interesting issue.
Me having a public hearing wouldn't have stopped you from being arrested. I think --
It would have stopped the process. It had nothing to do with me being arrested. You asked the question. Have things gotten better? And --
And we looked at the 21 12/10/01 COMMERCE & ECON. DEV. - RES. 010218 situation as the glass being half full than half empty.
Okay, half a loaf of bread is better than none, okay, and we've accepted that right there. And if it takes one --
And my understanding, if it takes one to get arrested, then this young man would have got arrested as well.
And the other 12 that you were seeing me with would have got arrested, am I correct? Did you really see me as an individual traveling the way I traveled? Didn't you see me with about six other guys?
Exactly. For me to take it 22 12/10/01 COMMERCE & ECON. DEV. - RES. 010218 on the chin for the residents who can't defend themselves.
No, they're not. There's no more asbestos except for the top of the hill
Well, then this is a 23 12/10/01 COMMERCE & ECON. DEV. - RES. 010218 question I wish PHA was here, because they're now working in the labor union and at various jobs with PHA 'cause they're certified asbestos lead-abatement individuals.
Okay. How many of the former residents are working there?
How many of the former residents are working at the site right now?
We have Michael Bennett and, I think, a Josh (indiscernible).
I thought Michael got terminated. 24 12/10/01 COMMERCE & ECON. DEV. - RES. 010218
Yeah, but, see, this is where -- in the two-week span from the last public hearing and the one prior to this, Michael was readmitted back to the site.
Actually, I think it was a blessing, but let me help you out here.
Okay, do you know that Domus had allowed us to do security on the site?
Well, neither do you talk to us as well, but Domus had allowed us to do security on the site. We put a proposal in for X-amount of dollars.
And now the same amount of residents -- the 12 who had worked with Social Security protecting that site and monitoring that 25 12/10/01 COMMERCE & ECON. DEV. - RES. 010218 site, will be allowed to work up under Domus on that site.
You know, construction, there are different phases, different things are happening.
So that means when the actual building begins, the residents are already slated to go on the site. Should we just put 12 residents on that site because what, what should 13 they do? 'Cause you would like them on that site 14 right now? 15
No, I think the residents should have an opportunity to do work at the development. That's why I asked the question.
And we agree with you, we agree with you, but you just made a statement that I got maced and locked up. Because I feel the same way you do, that they should have an opportunity to work on the site.
That was a long time ago. Your basic premise is that, as I took the testimony, everything is fine, things are going 12/10/01 COMMERCE & ECON. DEV. - RES. 010218 well, the residents are working, everyone should pretty much be happy. And all I was saying was, there seemed to be a different point in time when there was a very different view by many of the residents that things were not going well and things were not right, things were not working out. There was a chain of events.
Right, but now you guys have forced us to take our own responsibility for our own residence in our own hands, and now we have to get out and politic, and now we can't leave it up to you to call public hearings when things aren't working right with PHA or the developers. So --
Well, the resolution 17 was introduced a while ago. But all of these things, as I best understood them, I mean, City Council does not run PHA.
PHA is of its own entity, gets its money from the federal government.
But it was my 27 12/10/01 COMMERCE & ECON. DEV. - RES. 010218 understanding that a number of people have a variety of opinions about this, both residents, as well as neighborhood people. And this is a forum that's been open to anyone. No one has been denied ever an opportunity to come here and speak. I think you were here at the last hearing, a couple of other residents were here at the last hearing, there wasn't that much notice. We said at that hearing that there would be another hearing. We are trying to get to the bottom of a whole host of issues. Some may be addressed by things that you have already done, some may not be addressed by those things, whether it's the Michael Bennett situation or others. It's a public hearing. But PHA --
-- takes steps that it wants to take for its own purposes and also does not necessarily communicate with its own residents. We've had many, many conversations, you and I, about the actions of PHA and your direct request to even get PHA to meet with you or Miss Jonakin or other people. 28 12/10/01 COMMERCE & ECON. DEV. - RES. 010218 So I mean, look, you have the right to jump around from time to time and be on whatever side you want to be on, that's fine. PHA, it is their development. They set up a self-sufficiency program. I think the last hearing, when you were here, there were complaints about the self-sufficiency program. I know over the years you have complained bitterly about the self-sufficiency program, but that's not a City Council program; that's a PHA program. And whether it's working or not, it's a PHA issue, and it's all transitioned from RHD to Universal, who has the information, who doesn't. I mean, all of those issues are really PHA issues.
You're making it seem like all of a sudden, you are -- you've been just privy to this information as well as you're able to recount the various entities that are involved. You've known both by correspondence and both 29 12/10/01 COMMERCE & ECON. DEV. - RES. 010218 physically and both by phone call of these issues.
So let's not bring them up as if they happened yesterday and you just called a public hearing to resolve some of these issues.
These issues -- you've left us -- you've left us out there and we had no other choice but to do what we needed to do for ourselves to service ourselves. So if you care to speak about issues, then speak about the current issue because this public hearing that you've designed for us surely wasn't for the residents at this time, because if it was, it would have been designed a long time ago to better service the residents. This was merely to discuss East Falls premise on finding money to get the top of the hill fixed up. But yet, East Falls does not speak for Schuylkill Falls. We are our own entity, so when they speak, they just want to see something happen for us. Please, please don't -- please --
Well, you're entitled to your perspective. It's impossible for you to 30 12/10/01 COMMERCE & ECON. DEV. - RES. 010218 know why I do what I do. It's also impossible for you to know -- (Unintelligible; parties speaking over each other.)
-- from your perspective who the ultimate beneficiaries are of a variety of these options. It's not about top of the hill, bottom of the hill, or the side of the hill. It's about the entire site, what goes on over there and then how that relates to a much larger and broader community. If you want to take a perspective that it's only about the site, that it will stay an isolated site, that what happens there has no 16 relationship to what goes on in the neighborhood, then --
If you say "isolated site" and you've clearly lived in that community for quite some time now, right?
I'm sorry? 31 12/10/01 COMMERCE & ECON. DEV. - RES. 010218
You've clearly lived in that community for quite some time, right?
Mm, no. You may me mistaken with someone else. I don't live in East Falls.
There was two ways in and two ways out of Schuylkill Falls. Were you familiar with the site at that time?
We knew that you could come out that side street and go down Calumet Street. When you talk about a isolated site, we didn't build those barriers up there on that site right there.
I didn't either. You're talking about the Calumet Street site. Sure, there's --
Of course. I'm talking about when you say "isolated," my residents isolated the folks in there like Brewster Place.
We had no choice -- we 32 12/10/01 COMMERCE & ECON. DEV. - RES. 010218 didn't opt to have bars or poles put up to leave out of a property, which we thought it was unsafe because if someone had gotten sick at the top of the hill, the ambulance could clearly go up Calumet Street and be there.
Well, I didn't have them put there, but I did insist that in this development -- I said I didn't have them put there, but I did insist that in this development, as it was originally designed, it only had one way in and one way out. And I fought with the same people that you're complaining about to insist that there be two ways to get in and out. Now, maybe you don't know that, but there are now -- and it's because of what I did. I mean, we don't have to have a discussion about who did what to whom and how it got done.
You asked me, did I know about the site when it had two ways in before, 33 12/10/01 COMMERCE & ECON. DEV. - RES. 010218 and now it only has one? I mean --
If you want two ways in and two ways out, we're agreeable with that.
Thank you. I appreciate that. I'm glad we found a point of agreement. Thanks.
You too. Can we have the representatives from PHA, please? (Witness comes forward.)
Please identify yourself for the record. 34 12/10/01 COMMERCE & ECON. DEV. - RES. 010218
I'm Abbe Fletman, and I'm a partner at Wolf, Block, Schorr & Solis-Cohen, which is representing the Philadelphia Housing Authority in pending litigation with the East Falls community.
Okay. And why don't we establish for the record whatever you might like to tell us today about PHA, their presence or lack thereof, and why is it that the two -- I mean, not that you really need them, but just for-the-record purposes, you had two guys with you at the last hearing and maybe you decided that they didn't provide much worthwhile information at that particular hearing and kind of left them home, but there were three of you at the last hearing. Is PHA still not participate in the hearings?
Yeah, Councilman, our position has not changed since the last hearing; namely, that while there is pending federal litigation covering precisely the issues that your committee is investigating, that there will not be testimony. And we've offered to answer written questions. I mean, the position hasn't changed, and I 35 12/10/01 COMMERCE & ECON. DEV. - RES. 010218 was here, frankly, to observe, I was not aware that you were seeking a PHA witness for this hearing.
Well, I mean, the request had been made for the previous one. I mean, I'm not necessarily surprised; I just want to make sure that we have a clear and consistent record at the second hearing that the agency is maintaining the same position that it had before. But, I mean, I didn't want to make that assumption on the record, and it's better if you put it on the record.
I appreciate that, Councilman. Our position has not changed since the last hearing.
Thank you, Ms. Fletman. Mr. Totaro, are you here to finish up our discussion from a couple weeks ago? (Witnesses come forward.)
Okay. Please, gentlemen, would you please identify yourself for the record and proceed. 36 12/10/01 COMMERCE & ECON. DEV. - RES. 010218
Good afternoon. My name is Robert Totaro and I'm Vice President of Penrose Properties, Inc., a partner with Universal Community Homes in the Schuylkill Falls redevelopment.
And my name is Shahied Dawan. That's S-H-A-H-I-E-D; the last name, D-A-W-A-N. I'm the Chief Operating Officer for Universal Community Homes.
Okay, all right. Gentlemen, thank you Mr. Totaro, you sent me a letter recently with regard to some of the discussion that we had on income mix and rental versus housing. I know that -- I know that you want to try to be as helpful as possible. I don't know whether you were trying to keep it down to a two-page letter or just not have it kind of go on and on. I have to tell you that some of the parts of the letter were a little confusing, given the -- kind of the jumping around back and forth between the mixes and the numbers and the percentages. So why don't we try to walk back through some of that. 37 12/10/01 COMMERCE & ECON. DEV. - RES. 010218
We had also had the discussion last time about some of the other aspects of the proposal with regard to timing of when different elements would be built around, again, kind of rental and home ownership -- I don't want to say "rental versus home ownership." But why don't you kind of refresh our kind of collective memories and then go through your piece as to what, at least by your understanding, Phase I represents and what will be built when.
I think I mentioned at the last hearing that the use of the concept "phasing" has been used in two different senses as applied to this development. The one has to do with the phasing of the development of the property, and essentially that property has been divided into an eastern portion and a western portion generally divided by the new Merrick Road, which is similar in path to the existing Merrick Road.
Are east and west divided by essentially that kind of circular road? I don't remember --
So if you're looking at the map, if you're to the right of that circle, you're in the east, and to the left is the west?
Generally so. And to the east, or right, has been referred to as Phase I of the site development; and to the left, or west, Phase II. But it's a little bit complicated because that same concept of phasing has been applied to the real estate development, and so Phase I housing development represents 135 units of rental housing, which is now under construction on the eastern portion of the site. But that is not the only housing that is being developed on the eastern portion of the site. As I mentioned at the last hearing, 28 sales housing units are also being developed on the eastern portion of the site. And then the western portion of the site, which is sometimes referred as "the top of the hill" --
Hold on for one 39 12/10/01 COMMERCE & ECON. DEV. - RES. 010218 second. So that takes you 135 plus 28, so now we're in --
At the top of the hill, or the western portion of the site, is to be developed for 107 sales housing units. So the two combined should total 300 -- though math is not my strong suit.
Oh, I'm sorry. Yeah, thank you. There are the 30 units of rental housing, which is purely, by everyone's definition, market-rate rental housing, which is on the lower portion of the site west of Merrick Road fronting on Ridge, and it is to be a mixed-use building, 30 units of rental housing, about 6500 square feet of retail commercial. And it will line up as a companion building to the 50-unit mixed-use building on the eastern part of the site, east of Merrick 40 12/10/01 COMMERCE & ECON. DEV. - RES. 010218 Road. So that's the additional 30 units.
Okay. Was that the area of when you talk about the lower -- essentially the lower western side of the site, is that originally where the proposed swimming pool was going?
Okay. That issue was raised with me actually earlier today. Why don't you tell us for the record what happened with that.
When we were introduced to the development, there was still talk about the development of a pool building in that location, and we inquired about the availability of City funds and were advised that the estimated $2 million to construct that building was not available from the City. And we then began talking about an alternate plan for the development of that parcel.
So at that time, there were not 30 units designated for that particular area; the units were scattered somewhere else on the site?
There actually were several 41 12/10/01 COMMERCE & ECON. DEV. - RES. 010218 different concept plans for that portion of the site. Some of them involved multiple buildings, some of which would have been residential in character and another a recreational building. And in one iteration, it was a pool building. I even saw concept plans for a single building incorporating 30 rental housing units and the pool itself, which would have been very difficult and expensive to construct.
A combination of, I mean, in one building a pool and the residential?
I mean I remember seeing it. Okay, let me -- let me skip for one second and try to get a little bit of information, 'cause I think we didn't get as much as we probably should have the last time. Mr. Dawan, can you tell us what is going on with -- it's my understanding, and it's the reason I'm asking you the question -- and if I'm 42 12/10/01 COMMERCE & ECON. DEV. - RES. 010218 asking the wrong person, you'll tell me. It's my understanding that the self-sufficiency program is primarily being run by Universal; is that correct?
Okay, can you tell us a little bit about what's going on with that, what its various times elements are, level contact with the residents, what the programs are, and that kind of information?
Okay. Currently, we have a couple of people from the Resident Council as staff. We have case workers assigned to form a unit to deliver the services --
The case managers, are they former Schuylkill Falls residents?