Okay. And in this scenario, would the buyers just be out kind of those 28 or so people after they maybe saw a sign and called up and said, Hey, I'm interested in what's going on over there, and you tell 'em, We've got 28 for-sale units? Would they just go wherever they're going to go and try to get their mortgage, or are you working with them on that? I mean, how does 80 12/10/01 COMMERCE & ECON. DEV. - RES. 010218 that happen? And what's the sale price of these houses?
The sale price is currently projected at $115,000. And to answer your question, it would likely be a combination of approaches, depending upon the people who might be interested. Former residents would be working with Universal Community Homes in the self-sufficiency program, preparing to purchase a home. They would have a much greater level of assistance in locating mortgage financing; and, in fact, may have special programs available to them.
But others who qualify by income coming off the street will likely contact the broker and make their interests known and enter into an agreement to purchase the home. So it would not be very much different from the purchase of a conventional home.
Mm-hmm. Okay. The map would be helpful. And what I did not understand in what would be, I guess, your letter -- but it's after the letter, it's an 81 12/10/01 COMMERCE & ECON. DEV. - RES. 010218 attachment -- the chart that says "Income-Mixing Matrix."
For the rental units, I took it that the and 17 is probably the 40 7 percent or less? 8
But then you have 60 13 in what appears to be the 50 to 60. 14
The 51 to 60, that should be 15 66. That's a typographical error. It's 66 units. 16
Well, that's -- I 17 guess that's where I kind of got lost a little bit.
Correct. Let me run you through it. The 103 rentals are the public housing units.
If you look at that chart, 82 12/10/01 COMMERCE & ECON. DEV. - RES. 010218 it's the first 17, which is up to percent of annual median income.
The 103 also includes the 6 next 17, which is between 21 and 40. 7
Which are 41 to 50. 12 And it includes 34 of the next 66, which 13 are between 51 and 60. 14 There are an additional 32 rental housing 15 units which are tax credit-assisted and, therefore, 16 income-limited, and they are within the 51 to 60 17 percent of median. They are non-public-housing 18 tax-credit-assisted units. 19
-- that sheet based on 83 12/10/01 COMMERCE & ECON. DEV. - RES. 010218 our consideration here.
On the second sheet, again, I have to admit to you, that made --
You have low-income up to 50 percent of median at 69 units, percent; 9 middle income, 51 to 15, 220; and then upper income, 10 115 and above of median at 115. 11
That refers to the income limit. It was typed improperly. It's 11 units that are upper-income.
60 units are low-income, 220 are middle-income, and 11 are upper-income.
Okay. So you're going to get us some additional information --
-- based on today's discussion? 84 12/10/01 COMMERCE & ECON. DEV. - RES. 010218
Let me just lastly ask you, I heard what you said with regard to the IRS regulations. Notwithstanding that, have you given any thought or pursued any exploration of in a kind of a perfect-case scenario and if everyone was cooperative, have you seen any way or pursued any way that, again, you might be able to get, for all intents and purposes, a better integrated mix between rental and sale, subsidized and unsubsidized, market rate and non-market rate, whichever terminology you want to use, such that when the sign goes up -- I mean presently, you're anticipating, of all of the work to be done, a fairly significant amount of it -- I guess it's now 135 units plus the 28 for-sale -- and I don't know where they're going to be and you're going to get me a site map. I've raised this issue with you before. The concern that kind of how you started does in fact have some impact on how it concludes and what people think is really going on at this site, notwithstanding all of our efforts to change much of the perception of what was there before. 85 12/10/01 COMMERCE & ECON. DEV. - RES. 010218 Can you come up with any creative way and the appropriate people to ask -- and I have a document that Miss Fletman got me from a person I understand to be an expert. It seems to me that if there's a fair amount of interest and political will -- there obviously needs to be some additional dollars put on the table to make some other things happen, but is there a process that anyone could walk us through that said, If you did these eight things and got them all right, you might be able to convince someone to change the mix around?
Well, we have. I mean, we've looked very carefully at it. We've even looked at the development of the site as if we had a blank slate, as if we were not in any way constrained by what has occurred to date. And we have consulted experts in the field. And I honestly don't believe the final configuration of the development of this site, beginning with a blank slate, would look very much, if at all, different from the way it looks today. Delta, who conducted the most recent study, Real Estate Strategies, who conducted the earlier market study, the prominent local developer, 86 12/10/01 COMMERCE & ECON. DEV. - RES. 010218 who was brought in by the former mayor to consult with us regarding this development, other developers with whom we've consulted -- without exception, they have said that the top of the site, the western portion of the site, should be preserved for sales housing. There should not be rental public housing intermixed with that sales housing. Those who have studied mixed income --
Because it could very well deter prospective buyers of the housing from buying the home. Those being asked to pay that level of purchase price in this marketplace have enormous -- an enormous number of options. And in order to capture that prospective buyer, we are advised that you must design and construct a site which avoids as many disincentives to buy as is possible. The same kind of advice has led to recommendations that the road connecting the site to Schoolhouse Lane be open to public traffic, which, at the moment, it is not. These are the kinds of considerations that have been recommended to us.
Okay, thank you. 87 12/10/01 COMMERCE & ECON. DEV. - RES. 010218 Any other questions? (No further questions.)
Is there anyone else who wishes to testify? Okay. (Witness comes forward.)
Carolyn Sutton from East Falls Development Corporation. Even though I testified last time, I felt the need to come up and present a different viewpoint from some of the things that were said by Prince Mohammed. I really objected to his characterization of Schuylkill Falls standing separately from East Falls and his assertion that the people from the entire East Falls community are looking for Beverly Hills versus a totally subsidized housing project. That has never been our intent. From the beginning, we have been looking for the mixed-income development that was promised us. And these things were said at the last session, but I did feel the need to come in again and just say that that has never been our intent to do Beverly Hills. We were always looking for a mixed-income community that is similar to the mix 88 12/10/01 COMMERCE & ECON. DEV. - RES. 010218 that we have throughout the rest of East Falls I also objected to the assertion that after the first application for HUD financing was turned down, that the powers that be prevailed and got the funding the second time around. In fact, the powers that be came to the community and said that they needed the support of the rest of the East Falls community to get this financing. And we gave our support based on the mixed-income community. I also object to the characterization that all of the residents are 100 percent behind what is happening now in terms of the self-sufficiency issues. We heard testimony last time from several residents who delineated a number of problems they have in dealing with the outreach program that Universal is providing. I just also heard something complaining about the task force -- and in fact, the task force was a vehicle that was put in place for everybody who was concerned about the development of that site to come together and discuss concerns. And in fact, we have all done that, and the residents -- the former Schuylkill Falls residents have participated fully in that process. 89 12/10/01 COMMERCE & ECON. DEV. - RES. 010218 Something that was absolutely wrong was the characterization of Ridge Avenue staying a deteriorated corridor. In fact, over the past two years, more than 30 buildings have been bought and are being renovated and are leasing up quite nicely. This has involved a number of owners. People who have been there in business are now painting their properties. And we are all working together nicely to try to rebuild that corridor. There's public money in that, there's private money in that, and we continue to put in place programs so that we can turn that into a vital corridor for the community and for the City. I think that's about it. Thank you.
Okay, I appreciate your testimony. Thank you. Anyone else? (Witness comes forward.)
Good afternoon. I'm Shirley Jonakin, residents representative. Now, I was speaking of from the experience of living in the community how we had grown. I appreciate what Miss Sutton had to say as far as her (indiscernible) who had lived in that community. 90 12/10/01 COMMERCE & ECON. DEV. - RES. 010218 Now, residents have experienced a lot of negativity in that community before we got to the growth pattern -- I mean, got to the growth of HOPE VI. Unfortunately, we was going through the process and there were petitions around to be signed that we don't go through with the HOPE Six, and that was at Mifflin School. And it's a lot of unfortunate negativity they had went through emotionally, physically in the community until we all came together collectively. So we can't just overlook -- Mohammed spoke on negativity and how you feel. We lived it, Mr. Councilman, we really lived it. We lived it when Ann (indiscernible) was in office with the posters up there, like we were in the Brewster's Place -- one way in and one way out. The residential people wanted it. Of course, we want it open for passage, but there's always a walk-through. East Falls saying there's two parking lots convenient to them, and that wasn't on the City map. You know, we all going to have our ups and downs too, but we want these houses built. And one thing I do object to what Mr. Totaro said, putting the market-rate homes way 91 12/10/01 COMMERCE & ECON. DEV. - RES. 010218 up the hill. Residents have a right to live up that hill too. And all the houses' infrastructures are going to look alike. So you just can't separate us on the back of us. We work hard in that community. And we are (indiscernible) with bricks and mortar. There was a pool there. Who took the pool out? No one notified us. They just told us that the pool is no longer there. You didn't have a right to do that. You come to us with a conversation. We went to them on whatever we was going to do. And that first proposal was support. East Falls never turned around to make their support a commitment to the community. They started acting -- CDC, business, master development -- I mean master plan for the whole community, we worked towards that, you know. They had really built -- they building off the back of who? The residents. And the residents have left. It's a residential area. We done been to meetings from Roxborough down to Manayunk to beautify that area up there. Now, of course, the land has already been there. So now you going to put houses there and all 92 12/10/01 COMMERCE & ECON. DEV. - RES. 010218 they is bricks and mortar. Residents lived in the house, they had trees. The independent foundation gave them a (indiscernible). Why you can't discuss this pool? This is totally unbalanced of what the people want. It's what we all have discussed at the Thursday meeting. Now I hear you say it's 30 houses going to be there. This is really, really unbalanced for a diverse community. We lived in that community. Those that lived there are still there 30 and 40 years, they still there. And where is the word "isolation"? You can't define that too much, you know, when you put posters up and you have human beings living in the community too. But we making a difference, we working towards that. But you just can't use Afro-Americans for the benefit of the dollar bill. And let's balance the scale for the pool and the dollar bill too. And the self-sufficiency component, residents need -- excuse me. The self-sufficiency, what it consists of is upward mobility for residents hopefully that they can move back and have a better job. 15 an hour, $6 hour a hour? What training can you get? It 93 12/10/01 COMMERCE & ECON. DEV. - RES. 010218 wasn't the residents' fault that unfortunately that lived in a deplorable area. It really started from the White House down to our house, for people to have allowed things to go on the way they are now.
And we see new houses all around this city, but this city here have been talked about near and far, and we should do better. You should take Schuylkill Falls to make example of human beings working together, loving one another, educating one another, with the CDC getting jobs in that area and doing the best we can for everybody. PAll we do is sit up here and hear about the developments, the developments gave you information that I don't even know about. Low-income, median-income, where that come in at? It was about one income when we first started. 5. They done escalated to 50, 60, and $70,000 and two mortgages. It's really looking through this package 'cause we're somebody too. And everything -- and 90 percent has not been sweet and roses at East Falls, and they know that. And Mr. Stout, Miss Wood, they're experiencing some racism in that community really 94 12/10/01 COMMERCE & ECON. DEV. - RES. 010218 terribly before I even got there. It's a fact that they wanted the buildings down, but the truth is, they wanted the buildings down, the residents out, and then take control of the community. They don't have the right to do that. Carl Greene makes the final decision and whatever decision we want to make, he makes the final move. And you cannot leave the residents out. We unfortunately didn't have a case manager at Universal since August, and that case manager has assessed every family member, every household, individuals that's listed in that household, from the day care to transportation, health care, whatever their needs are, to better they situations. There was 239 occupied units with family there. And that's what we looking for.
Yes. At the beginning stages, Resources were our partners. Unfortunately now (indiscernible) supposedly is Uni-Penn. So 95 12/10/01 COMMERCE & ECON. DEV. - RES. 010218 prior to that, Resources, out of the 239 residents, they did contact 100 or more, contacted 'em to see where they needs were. There was a financial difficulty with PHA paying them they share of how they supposed to pay 'em. Then there was a confidentiality act signed with residents. That information was not going to be released. So when Uni-Penn came, they come with skeleton (indiscernible)and they had to find out where the residents were and take the long journey of contacting them. And unfortunately, residents have been recycled. Ninety percent of residents that left Schuylkill are still in public housing. It was the Housing Authority's responsibility to check all of them. So now they everywhere.
They are everywhere around this city. And we're taking the responsibility to do that 'cause those are our residents.
Right. And are you still having Tenant Council meetings?
Well, we have the task force meeting, but our main goal is and my vision is to 96 12/10/01 COMMERCE & ECON. DEV. - RES. 010218 keep in contact with all of the residents that left Schuylkill Falls, whether they want to return or not. They have special needs, especially our elders -- we're still relocating them because some residents were relocated at areas where relocation is going on gain. We're taking our residents out of Tasker. They going to do a implosion down there, you know. And then the Housing Authority is really not taking into consideration the human growth of a human being to be put in one place and have some elderly residents that were located in areas that didn't even meet the 504 Handicap Accessible unit and had to take them out of there. You know, we're talking about human beings that they have enough strength, but unfortunately, the stress going to kill them and they may not get back at all.
Hearing no further 97 12/10/01 COMMERCE & ECON. DEV. - RES. 010218 testimony, the committee will stand in recess until Wednesday, January 23rd, at a.m. 4 Thank you. 5 (Proceedings end at 4:15 p.m.) 6 - - - 7 8 9 10 98 CERTIFICATE I HEREBY CERTIFY that the foregoing proceedings of the Council of the City of Philadelphia's meeting of the Council Committee on Commerce and Economic Development of Monday, December 10, 2001, are contained fully and accurately in the stenographic notes taken by me upon, and that this is a true and correct transcript of same. RE: Resolution No. 010218 _______________________________, Josephine Cardillo Registered Professional Reporter and Notary Public (The foregoing certification of this transcript does not apply to any reproduction of the same by any means, unless under the direct control and/or supervision of the certifying reporter.)