We will try to, you know, continue to share information like that with you. My guess is we probably do a better job than people think but not as good a job as we should, and we have a lot of work ahead of us to do to manage the school system the way I think we all aspire to.
That's why we like to end on a positive note. Thank you. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you. The Chair recognizes Councilwoman Brown.
Thank you, Madam Chair. Good afternoon, everybody. I wanted to revisit, if I could, information around the MBE/WBE activity. I know you did mention that we would get the additional information, and I have received some additional information, but I need to put some realities on the record. Help me first with the reporting line. What is the reporting line internally with regards 109 3/13/01 - FINAL FY '02 BUDGET HEARING to the office that oversees MBE/WBE activity? Who reports to. . . (Witness comes forward.)
Good afternoon. I'm Tom McGlinchey, Chief Operating Officer for the School District. Councilwoman, the Office of Small- Business Development reports to the Chief Operating Officer.
Okay. So the final checkoff with regards to the awarding sits in whose lap?
The Office of Small-Business Development reviews every Board award and Board resolution that approves service for anything for the School District. So that office essentially looks at every procurement for the District.
You said that the head of the Office of Small-Business Development reports to the Chief Operating Officer? 110 3/13/01 - FINAL FY '02 BUDGET HEARING
Is there a board subcommittee that oversees the activities of this office?
Okay. But that's helpful to us in terms of getting --
Well, Councilwoman, there is a board committee for facilities, purchasing, and equal opportunity. To the extent that that function relates to small-business development, then yes, the Board does have a committee to oversee that.
There's a committee, which is the Facilities, Purchasing and EEO Committee that's chaired by Vice President Dorothy Sumners-Rush. EEO, including small-business development. We treat small-business development and EEO issues together generally.
And just in terms of recent 111 3/13/01 - FINAL FY '02 BUDGET HEARING news, although I -- I was at a different Board meeting and was not at the last meeting or two meetings ago of that committee. There has been discussion going on in that committee about some -- renewing some efforts that had been discussed some years ago, including the possibility of prequalification processes and things like that that are still in the development stage, but I understand that that committee at its last meeting did have staff reporting on small-business development and EEO issues, particularly in the construction area.
In construction. Okay, that's one -- I have thee areas here.
And that committee also regularly asks questions both at the committee and at the board about minority bidding and purchasing. I don't know of many Board meetings where the question isn't asked with respect to contracts that come before the Board for approval. And it's a -- and it's a discussion that is going on, and Mrs. Rush --
And I might add -- and 112 3/13/01 - FINAL FY '02 BUDGET HEARING the President can correct me if I'm wrong, but every resolution that comes before the Board on purchasing designates how many minority bidders there were and if they did not -- if they were not the successful bidder, why they were not the successful bidder. So that comes through on every purchasing agreement.
So there's some examination as to why either MBE or WBE firms ultimately do not end up the awardee.
I mean, just to kind of give you some more -- perhaps I should invite to you a committee meeting where we talk about this, 'cause there are a number of things that have happened over the year. In addition to designating documents showing whether it's WBE or MBE, we also started probably a year or two go asking questions about the winners, you know, how long has this bidder been bidding on a project, you know, who had this project, who won this bid last time.
What's the history? 113 3/13/01 - FINAL FY '02 BUDGET HEARING
We also want to, you know, keep an eye on the competitive aspect and make sure that the District's providing opportunity for competition and for small-business opportunity.
Well, all of those observations become important when we know that at least 41 percent of the School District's operating dollars come from local -- at least as the City's contribution, and my numbers tell me that amounts to about 599 million, yet we have one contract in the area of design and construction that was awarded to a minority in the March 2000 report and 1 percent of the dollars and 5 percent contracts went to women for materials management, so if you have a database of 3,000 and this is based on information that you've provided, if you have a database of 3,000 minority and women-owned business, yet we end up with single digits, specifically percent, that is troubling.
And so I'm happy to learn that at the Board level now, there is a serious look at that because five years ago, it was 2 percent, and I only anyhow know that 'cause 114 3/13/01 - FINAL FY '02 BUDGET HEARING it was in 1995, and that was a year where I had to study what was happening in an area that I care about. So it's troubling, and I would encourage you to do whatever needs to happen internally to change these numbers because 1 percent is terrible.
We will certainly take that back, Councilwoman. I think you probably know just from your knowledge of the Board members that this is an -- you know, this is an issue of concern to all of the members of this board and something we're grappling with, probably similar to issues that the City deals with in publicly-bid contracts and some of the obstacles that there are for -- particularly if for small businesses in bidding large contracts, and sometimes -- and Ms. Smallwood, our small-business development officer, would say, you know, there are time when they are able to, at no loss to the District, to break up contracts.
And provide opportunities, and sometimes that results some in small businesses having opportunities and sometimes it doesn't.
And in defense, I know of the competency in both Riva Smallwood and Nancy Lewis, and I trust that they're doing everything they are able to at their level, but someplace between where they are and at the Board level in terms of oversight, something is happening or not happening. So know that an interest exists at this level with an improvement in that area, and just keep us informed. Because if 41 percent is coming from local contributions, then the number of the percentage of contracts going to MBE and WBE should in some kind of way mirror that if we have a database of 3,000. Thank you very much. Thank you, Madam Chair.
You're welcome. The Chair recognizes Councilman Kenney.
I'd like to go back a moment to the line of questioning with 116 3/13/01 - FINAL FY '02 BUDGET HEARING Councilman Nutter on the parent co-op nurse program. My understanding is that currently, the parent contribution is $25 a month, and we're discussing -- staff has recommended an increase to $85 a month -- $81 a month, I'm sorry, 81. And that's going to raise approximately $200,000.
Okay. I want to thank you for providing me the information that I asked for relative to the travel budget, and I recognize that with the large size of this overall budget here with the School District that 1.4 million really isn't all that much money in the scheme of things. However, I harken back to one of my favorite movies. Have you ever seed a movie called "Dave"?
It's with Kevin Kline, Charles Grodin, and Frank Langella.
Well, Dave becomes because President of the United States because the 117 3/13/01 - FINAL FY '02 BUDGET HEARING President had a stroke and he's disabled.
And he's in the basement on life support, and Dave becomes the President. And him and his personal accountant, Charles Grodin, sit down at a cabinet meeting and actually go through and start figuring out what they're going to cut and wind up saving a couple hundred millions to save, I think, a day care program, I think it was, as a matter of fact. Could we do without $200,000 less of travel in 2001? I mean, I'm not even questioning whether the travel in effect is a bad thing 'cause I see some things in here that make some sense. There's some conferences and other things that probably people should attend. And I look at the 2001 projected, or at least for the first three months of 2001, we're at about 400,000 now, so we're on a pace of about 1.6 as opposed to about 1.4 last year. Is there a possibility we could cut $200,000 out of a 1.4 or a $1.6 million travel budget and keep the parent co-op just the way it is, by using David and Charles Grodin-like 118 3/13/01 - FINAL FY '02 BUDGET HEARING accounting methods?
I just saw another movie which I rented, a Peter Sellers movie, where he became the President -- he was the gardener.
He was a gardener for 40 years and this his patron dies and they let him out in the street.
In any event, the answer is -- I did recently put out new processes, which I took to the Board, which they approved, to get a better handle on travel and conferences. And I think Councilman Cohen said -- I mean, conferences are important, they're important for 119 3/13/01 - FINAL FY '02 BUDGET HEARING professional development and so forth. It's important, however, that we have a focus on what they're being used for and we reduce the numbers and so forth. And the new process, which took effect March 1st so it's not reflected in the numbers you have numbers, will now kick in. And Dr. Farmbry review it from an educational perspective and I review it from a different set of eyes.
And I'm not suggesting that we eliminate it. I think it's something that needs to be done.
Yeah, I understand, and I want to get to your question about if we can reduce the $200,000. I don't know. Maybe. And whether that should be used to fund PCN and so forth, I think the context that I think we have to keep in perspective, we also have a $191 million deficit, and so every dollar we save has got to go there, and there's a whole bunch of needs -- not just with PCN but in our schools and so forth. I personally think we've got to be aggressive in looking at this stuff and we've got to move the resources, as I said the other day, 120 3/13/01 - FINAL FY '02 BUDGET HEARING back into the classroom.
But if, in effect, we raise it to 81 and parents drop out of the program because of the inability to pay, isn't that a self-defeating scenario for the program itself? 'Cause then the argument will be made, you know what, why do we really need this program 'cause nobody's using it anyway, 'cause people can't afford it. And, therefore, the program has a possibility in the next year or the year after of being determined not to be worth it and kind of getting rid of it.
I think those are, you know, valid concerns. I think the other valid concern that we're all concerned about is stabilizing our programs and that if we don't charge anything and if we have too much of a, you know, too much of a gap in what our expenditures are and our revenues, that's going to destabilize programs. And I know there's a fine line between, you know, how you transition into that. But I think the worst thing that could happen is that we constantly look at that program, or any program, as a loser, it's a loser, loser, 121 3/13/01 - FINAL FY '02 BUDGET HEARING and then after a while, it falls down because we haven't stabilized it. So I think that's a fine line that we're trying to walk, and this issue of fairness where we really started out, you know, last year, as I understand it, the recommendation that the Board approved was $50. And we can -- and having heard from parents and others and understanding the concerns, we have come down to $14. And I know any fee increase always makes people unhappy in any enterprise, and we understand that, and we're just trying to find the right balance here, and I don't expect anyone to be particularly happy or comfortable with what the results are. And that's what makes it difficult.
And, again, I'm not making -- I'm not making, you know, a subjective analysis that somehow this travel isn't important.
But when you look in the scheme of things, the Parent Cooperative Nursery, you know, other types of programs, again, that are dealing with children and with students, you know, it's like I'd like to drive, you know, a 122 3/13/01 - FINAL FY '02 BUDGET HEARING Lexus, but, you know, but my family car is a Sable 'cause I can't afford the Lexus. And I'm wondering whether or not we should be looking at all of these areas and hopefully I'm sure you are, but at some point in time, we have to start making the actual cuts. So, I mean, if --
Councilman Kenney, if I can clarify. The School District cut its travel budget by percent. 12
Going into this fiscal 14 year. And the numbers that you're looking at for 15 Fiscal Year 2001 actually go for the first eight 16 months of the fiscal year, so we expect to bring 17 our travel expenses down for a combination of 18 budget cuts and a new travel policy by more than a 19 half, from 1.4 million to just under $700,000 for 20 this year. 21
All right. Well, 22 hopefully, that is the case. But, again, when it 23 comes to these kinds of areas that are 24 questionable as to whether or not they're 25 absolutely needed and when we have a program that 123 3/13/01 - FINAL FY '02 BUDGET HEARING is apparently very popular and very effective, that a raise of this significance is going to put people out of it and, therefore, potentially hurt it long term or eliminate it long term, I really think if we have to make a decision, I'd rather get rid of things like this than get rid of things like that.
And I understand that, and I think I'm pleased that Miss Chatzkel pointed out the significant cuts, and I agree we need to do more cutting wisely, and that's what we're doing as we go through our budget process. I mean, we're in the process of going through the budget process and to do those things. I should also point out -- I mean, some of the challenges we face as we go through the budget process is, we not only have issues like PCN, but the poverty rate in this city has declined, which is good news. The bad news is that we're going to have, I believe, $12 million less in Title monies that our schools have received in the past, you know, several years. So if we go through looking at the funding and the allocations for our schools, we're not only faced 124 3/13/01 - FINAL FY '02 BUDGET HEARING with issues like PCN, we're also faced with the day-to-day K-to-12 challenges that we have because of a reduction in Title 1 monies through good news, to the extent that that's good news. So these are the balancing act that we're going through and which I know Council appreciates.
Can I shift for a moment to the issue of magnets and academies and admission criteria. There's been an ongoing philosophical battle in many areas of the City as it relates to very successful and very sought-after magnet programs and the special academy programs that are in the comprehensive high schools. And a lot of complaints have been regarding a perceived change, or an actual change, in the standards for admission. That if a child want to be involved in animal husbandry or in engineering or in science or math or law and have an avocation for that particular type of work, that they seek out and try to attend Saul and other schools that provide that kind of opportunity. And then we have the issue of putting 125 3/13/01 - FINAL FY '02 BUDGET HEARING kids into these schools by lottery, some of which children maybe don't express an avocation or desire to be there, but their parents would like them there, and I've heard anecdotal stories about children who have gotten into Saul, for example, because the parents wanted him there but he didn't like animals, which is a pretty tough place to be if you don't like animal. So then the child didn't participate, took up a space that could have been used for someone who didn't get for the lottery, and wasn't necessarily a discipline problem but certainly wasn't engaged in the process of learning because he or she -- I'm not sure if it was a boy or girl -- didn't want to be there. What's the situation now? And in the last administration, I sensed a real dislike, or disdain, for magnets or for specialized schools in that the last superintendent wanted every comprehensive high school to be a successful school, and that is our goal. And when asked the question as to how long would that take, four or five years was usually the answer. And I guess if you're the parent of an 8th-grader, it's a pretty 126 3/13/01 - FINAL FY '02 BUDGET HEARING bad answer. What are we doing with admission criteria, magnets, academies, and what's our current situation?
Well, why don't I start, and Dr. Farmbry can pick up, because part of this, as you know, was a conversation that became a Board conversation a couple years ago, and we had -- you know, we talked about it here at City Council. And I think you'd be right to characterize a policy shift -- you know, a couple policy shifts that happened back then. One that there was a -- that programs that previously had used criteria were being mostly moved to a more lottery-type system, and there was a lot of resistance then. And you will remember that City Council was very interested, there was some concern at the Board, and I guess the famous anecdote about this was that Mayor Rendell came to a Board meeting to talk about the admission criteria issue. The Board subsequently sought out to really try to address the concerns that were -- 127 3/13/01 - FINAL FY '02 BUDGET HEARING that the former superintendent was trying to address with kind of one approach. We tried to address 'em in a more tailored approach. And the result has been an expansion in the number of programs in the City -- and we can, I'm sure, get you that stuff -- that use admissions criteria. The ability of schools to -- well, the main thing the Board did was say that schools can have admissions criteria, but your School Council has to make the decision that you want admissions criteria, and the admissions criteria have to, you know, have to show that, you know, that they've been thought out and are reasonable. And a number of schools that had criteria before continued, most of 'em. And the number of new schools started and the net effect has been more kids going to these magnet-type programs and greater diversity. We also moved from having one citywide fair that used to be at the old Civic Center to neighborhood fairs, and that had an effect, as you would suspect, on applications. And there was a group that you participated in, the Admissions Criteria Monitoring Committee. Councilman Nutter is there 128 3/13/01 - FINAL FY '02 BUDGET HEARING from time to time, Councilman Rizzo always there, or has a representative there, and Councilwoman Miller, I think, from time to time also has had an representative there. And it's where we basically watch what's going on so that we balance the -- what the community wants, which is programs like this versus some of the, you know, some of the equity issues. And this, you know -- and generally, I think it's gone pretty well. Once in a while, you hear a program where, you know, the question is asked, why is there only one or no students of color in this program? Or why, you know, if this -- you know if there's a student with a disability that applied and never got an answer, was this student considered, because, you know, we also find that with accommodation, some students, you know, have done very well. So what it's done, I think, has become a much more kind of finely-tuned process, at least from the Board's perspective looking out on it and less of a broad-brush perspective.
Could I get a list of those schools that have admission criteria and 129 3/13/01 - FINAL FY '02 BUDGET HEARING those that are either a lottery or a combination of both?
We can get you that list. I also want to reiterate what Mr. Ramos --
'Cause this is something I think is also a big change. If you just look from a parent perspective, a couple major changes. One is the application itself. It now has all of the admission criteria programs together and you can see -- you can apply to them. And it used to be that you got -- it was a fragmented way of responding to parents and students that if you applied to do a Central and applied to the Communications Academy, you know, at a comprehensive high school, you would get -- it would presume that if you applied to Central that you didn't want to consider the others. It automatically put you in there and closed out the other. Now parents, I understand, I believe, get -- you're told what schools you're admitted to and then you pick. So on the consumer side, it's a lot 130 3/13/01 - FINAL FY '02 BUDGET HEARING friendlier.
I was going to say that in our empowerment plan, there is a bullet that speaks directly to supporting the notion of choice within the public school system. And I think that parents, through the passing of that Board resolution, I guess it's two or three years now, have really exercised expanded choice within the school system, and there really has been a growth in the number of criteria-based program. What we're also finding is that because the criteria-based programs really do increase the school's responsibility, that after you've interviewed the students and had a writing sample and really taken time to ascertain that a child definitely wants this program, then once the child's in, we really are holding schools responsible for putting the supports in place for making sure the child can then stay.
So attendance and behavior and other things in the -- once admitted, are issues for retaining that student.
Are issues for retaining that student, but it also means that schools do 131 3/13/01 - FINAL FY '02 BUDGET HEARING have to take very seriously a process that we have, called "Comprehensive Support Process," or CSP, where teachers actually sit down and review the progress of a child periodically to make sure we can put supports in place. And, of course, there has to be time for teachers to sit down during the day to do that.
I want to go back to one other thing you said 'cause you mentioned the lottery, and I want to make sure that, you know, you didn't get -- that you have the right impression about this. And this is the same as when we discussed it at the admissions criteria committee. There is still some element of lottery, but you only get into the lottery after the school has said that you're qualified. So, I mean, that's the only -- it's very narrowed down, it's not what it was.
Thank you, Madam 132 3/13/01 - FINAL FY '02 BUDGET HEARING Chair.
I want to say that comments made by Councilman Nutter in terms of the parents cooperative, I don't think need to rehash that issue, but go for the same line with me. It is a program that has functioned, it's a program that working-class people can afford at this present time, and if we don't make it available for working-class people, we pretty soon won't have any working-class people in Philadelphia. But, Pedro we've had -- and I've talked to Mr. Goldsmith during the last few days because all of a sudden, I'm getting a whole rush of lead issues into the office. I attended a couple of meetings in the community the other day at the Welsh School, and we've had hearings on the lead question, and we're supposed to have another one coming up just to review the issue. Because I know that attempts were being made, and we've been petitioned to be able to see how we can manage during this period of time. And the thing is that I don't believe 133 3/13/01 - FINAL FY '02 BUDGET HEARING that information is getting down to the parents, which is what I found at the meeting I attended the other day, as to what -- the what the resolutions can be, how to go about it, and I think we should attend to it. I think information is one of the things that these parents -- I gave Mr. Goldsmith, I think, like five schools that we've got questions on. And the parents are -- and I know that these parents have questions, and I don't believe the principals are -- specifically one principal I'm, and not going to name him, but he gave the wrong information or was not giving certain type of information to some of the parents. So I -- I think we have to revisit the issue and -- because I know that we're dealing with it but I would like to see what information we got, how we're handling it and the availability of bottled water and the policies for water in different schools. I think parents are confused about that, and I think it's creating perhaps problems that we don't need at this time.
Councilman, if I may, and I'll then ask Mr. McGlinchey to respond. 134 3/13/01 - FINAL FY '02 BUDGET HEARING I think you're right. I think the issue is more of a communication issue than the substantive issue of lead in the water that the four schools that you mentioned to me have all been, you know, been tested, they've all been given a clean bill of health. And so it may be that we're not just getting that message to the schools in an adequate way and it may have to bear repeating it because obviously, there's a sensitivity out there. So I think your point about the communications is well-taken.
Well, let me say that in, for instance, the Welsch School that has, I think, close to 900 students, they only have one or two fountains open. That's what the parents told me. I see you shaking your head, but I was at a meeting with parents the other night and that's what they said to me. One on the third floor and one on the fourth floor. And what they were afraid of is that they don't know how the water in the bathrooms are and that some of their kids were going into the bathrooms, and because of the lack of fountains 135 3/13/01 - FINAL FY '02 BUDGET HEARING and the availability of water, some of the kids were, when the parent asked them questions as to where they drank water from, they said they go and drink from the bathroom. And I know that there are signs in the bathroom with red -- you know, with the X and so on. But kids -- you know, kids are not going to listen to that. And so, according to the parents, there's only two there. And other parents in the schools that I gave you. So what I'm saying is, their reality is this, and they might be -- they're being told something else and they're obviously concerned about their kids. I told them, I said I would send my kid with bottles of water into the schools.
Councilman, let me just give you an idea of the decision process with regard to providing bottled water to a school. Back in October of '99, a decision was made to provide bottled water to 100 schools that had not yet been tested. Now, since that time, as the school is tested and as we identify outlets -- drinking water outlets within that school that are acceptable, we will take that bottled water away 136 3/13/01 - FINAL FY '02 BUDGET HEARING from the school only if there are enough outlets existing according to Philadelphia health codes for the occupants of that school. So it is not true that Welsh only has --
So in a school of 800, close to 900 kids, how many water fountains should there be?
There are more than two. I can assure you there are more than two.
What I'm saying to you is, I was there this week, on Friday, actually I think it was, but they told me two, okay?
Well, we'll send someone out to check, but when your inquiry was forwarded to me from Mr. Goldsmith, I did make that call, and I was told how many outlets were there. It certainly was more than two, but I will double-check that for you. Let me get to the sink issue. When any outlet, whether it be drinking water or water in 137 3/13/01 - FINAL FY '02 BUDGET HEARING the bathrooms, whenever those outlets are identified as exceeding the acceptable level, they are taken out of service, shut off. They should not be able to be turned on by anyone. As a precaution, and according to a suggestion from the EPA, we do post signs in the bathrooms, which say "Do Not Drink From These Sinks." However, should the child ignore those signs, only those outlets in those bathrooms that have shown to be below the acceptable level provided by the EPA would be available. So we don't want them to drink from the sinks, but we do shut off those sinks where the testing has shown that they exceeded the EPA levels.
Well, I think the parents of those schools should have meetings. And Bethune, McKinley, Hunter, I gave -- and communications be -- and I think the principals should be told as to what the processes are. And parents want to know because they seem to have the idea that in order to have bottled water, they would have to make a decision about their budget to cut something else in order to have bottled water and -- 138 3/13/01 - FINAL FY '02 BUDGET HEARING
When bottled water is provided, it does not theoretically come out of the school budget. Everything obviously always come bout of the school budget because we only have so much money.
And one administrator is going to be put into a position in which he is going to have decide if it's books versus clean water.
Absolutely, I couldn't agree more. So when there is that need because we haven't been able to get the okay, then we provide the bottled water. But I think you're right, I think it's 139 3/13/01 - FINAL FY '02 BUDGET HEARING a communications issue, and I think we've told the principals, but we tell the principals a lot of things, and so I think we probably have to reiterate it 'cause they get a lot of, you know --
Obviously, you know, something is not -- because I have a petition in my office which I'm going to give you with -- it's over here.
Okay. My staff says we need it back because we need to make copies at least for us. Okay, so this is a ceremonial handing of it. Okay. And you can see their concerns that obviously something is not kosher.
Thank you. Thank you, Madam Chair. 140 3/13/01 - FINAL FY '02 BUDGET HEARING
Thank you. The Chair recognizes Councilman Cohen.
Thank you, Madam President. When was the last addition to the sites of the parent cooperatives? When was the last new one?
One of the staff will know the answer to that. (Witness comes forward.)
Jennifer Plummer-Davis, Director of Parent Cooperative Nurseries. We have not had any new locations in recent years. In 1998, we relocated into the H.A. Brown School, but that was just a relocation from another site. There have not been any new locations since the '80s.
Well, presently in the budget, it's budgeted for 22 classrooms, and we have 20 classrooms presently operating. And new locations come about if there is a site, a 141 3/13/01 - FINAL FY '02 BUDGET HEARING facility available, a classroom space available.
I mean, do parents make requests, or does the School Board decide it's time to create a new one and that hasn't happened for several years at least and locate -- does the School Board locate the site and announce the opening of a new site?
It's basically a needs assessment based on the community and how well the community would use that program. And currently in the budget, it's only for the 13 classrooms, so there has been no increase. 14
Well, the reason I 15 raise the question is that all my recent reading 16 on education seems to conclude that the sooner a 17 child gets into an educational atmosphere, the 18 better the long-term prospects are for the child's 19 development so that this notion of a 20 prekindergarten, which in this case, it's a 21 combination of a day care and an educational 22 component with the patients feeling very -- that it's really an important educational component, and I think the staff at the School District, I think they ought to be complimented for the way in 142 3/13/01 - FINAL FY '02 BUDGET HEARING which they've dealt with this program, because I think it's been a very real educational experience. And I can't understand why it's limited basically to the Northeast or Northwest and why -- I asked Councilman Kenney in the Council Caucus a moment ago, Are there any in South Philadelphia? and he said he didn't know of any. And I said why? He didn't know why, he thought maybe there no need, maybe there were more day care seniors. I said, Well, in the Northwest, we're loaded with, you know, in ordinary houses day care centers. But is there any explanation as to why it's only in the Northeast and the Northwest?
Well, originally, our parent cooperative nurseries classrooms, they were all over the City, but as the population changed and as our parents moved to different parts of the City, our classrooms basically followed them, but we are in agreement with, as far as early childhood education, because the School District has increased its services for preschool education by 50 percent. Last year, we increased in our Head Start program. We also have 143 3/13/01 - FINAL FY '02 BUDGET HEARING our Comprehensive Day Care program, which services over 2,000 children.
But I know of no 5 program that get the kudos as much as this program, and I know it over many years, 'cause, as I mentioned in your earlier testimony, I was a lawyer who initiated the action -- I think it was with Councilman O'Neill actually at the time, about or years ago, when the Board first 11 began making a decision that it really couldn't 12 afford it. It didn't seem then to make any sense, 13 as it doesn't seem now. 14
You're lucky that Councilman Nutter is much more reasonable than I am. I see no justification at all for any raise in the cost. If anything, since it's a public school-sponsored activity I think the movement ought to be in the other way since it is so important as an educational component. I think as soon as we get financially sound, that we would be hoping to increase the prekindergarten component to public education. And the nature of public education is that it ought to be free to 144 3/13/01 - FINAL FY '02 BUDGET HEARING everyone. And I think this Parent Cooperative Nursery, I think there ought to be a way of expanding it despite financial problems. Doing what you're doing, creating an upset among all of the parents isn't really doing anything for your budget. You know, if you had your way, the deficit instead of being, what is it now, 297 million, some figure like that?
191 million. I guess I was anticipating those years down the road when you get to $750 million. Well, so it would be what, 190.8 million instead of 191 million. You know, it doesn't really do anything and it would seem to me that you wouldn't want to spend the time that you must have spent meeting with people, trying to work out something. You know, I'm at a loss to understand why it was so important to get involved in deciding that we got to economize in this area.
Well, I think, Councilman 145 3/13/01 - FINAL FY '02 BUDGET HEARING Cohen, there are probably two things that we're grappling with. One, just to deal -- I'll come to the specific question. On a general level and your issue of availability of prekindergarten programs, you know, what the Board is very interested in and part of this whole effort with the City and United Way and looking at citywide is, I suspect that there are probably parts of the City that are being underserved in programs such as Head Start and CDC, and not because a decision -- anyone's making a decision to ignore it, but because there hasn't really been that comprehensive look. And it may be that -- and as you know, Head Start, and you probably agree, it is a program that is a nationally-funded program and one that at least here in Philadelphia has gotten a lot of compliments, a lot of support. And, you know, and I would expect that there are parts of the City where the District previously thought people didn't qualify for Head Start, where they probably now do. And we have to be a lot more vigilant about meeting that demand, and there is funding for that in the federal government. 146 3/13/01 - FINAL FY '02 BUDGET HEARING In CDC, which is a State-funded program, I think, you know, we could do better at matching the service with the need, but that's also a State-funded program under. And that program, parents pay anywhere from $10 they if make less than $7700 a week (sic) to $50 a week if make over $41,000. At the median family income, parents who demonstrate -- who provide proof of income pay around $36 a week in that program. And it's a program that, you know, we're also having some trouble with, as I know from staff reports, because of some of the welfare reform legislation and the burdens that it's putting on those parents to stay -- to be eligible to be able to continue in the program. Some of those parents, you know, we're losing a lot of those that are eligible and need the service because of the requirements that are being imposed on us for, you know -- and staff can talk more about the verification requirement under the welfare reform legislation. So part of what's going on too -- I mean, I agree that in -- my also as a layperson, everything I read says, you know, the sooner you start, you do better. And it's particularly true 147 3/13/01 - FINAL FY '02 BUDGET HEARING in most of the research that I've seen been and has been reported to me with respect to low-income students, low-income children. And we need to provide both -- you know we feed to do that, though the -- with PCN, you don't have the Head Start funding, you don't have the CDC funding, and you have, by some accounts, terms that are favorable to the CDC terms. And so I think, part of what the Board is grappling with trying to preserve all of them, trying to figure out a more comprehensive way of doing it, but also trying to be fair across the system. And I think, you know, the issue of, you know, how much is your increase is a legitimate question of fairness, but I think another legitimate issue of fairness is, are you treating people similarly, you know, for a similar thing. And I --
And I'm very concerned in the reevaluation that you're doing. I don't hear the expressions that I would like to hear about how we're going to safeguard this kind of program, 'cause I think this is a very unique program and it could do so much for the City of 148 3/13/01 - FINAL FY '02 BUDGET HEARING Philadelphia. What I heard this morning on the radio in an advertisement about the City of Philadelphia making a very real effort and has a special program aimed at keeping young graduates of the universities in the Philadelphia area in Philadelphia and --
And a program like this would mean so much to young people in making a decision as to whether Philadelphia is a desirable place, you know, to stay, and if I get married and have kids, what is being offered to us. And I think we're, you know, not taking advantage of that opportunity. We do some things to try to win people over, and then we sort of cut off our nose to spite our face apparently and show a lack of sensitivity in other areas. I think this is a wonderful program that would win people to staying in Philadelphia.
Well, one of the things that there's been limited discussion of but, you know, the Board has raised is an issue as we look at the citywide effort. I mean, this is the more 149 3/13/01 - FINAL FY '02 BUDGET HEARING long-term thing, which is to go to your point of how do, you know, is there some thinking going on about how to preserve and expand. You know, one of the issues we'll be looking at is, should we be making programs more similar. Instead of having three silos, should we be providing a program -- you know, should we be really trying to bring these together, including, if we have the ability down the road, to blend the money, so you're not just compartmentalizing according to, you know, this program is for folks that fall below this line, but in a sense, try to get a more blended way of funding programs, and then being driven by the program by the needs of the students as opposed to the funding source.
But here you have a program operating, and from everything we hear, very successfully. Why isn't it possible to put an end to all of the questioning and the concern of parents and reach a quick decision? Because I have to tell, I don't see Council acting on the school budget until, in my judgment, two questions are dealt with. One is the parent cooperative and the other is how we get 150 3/13/01 - FINAL FY '02 BUDGET HEARING kids to ride to school without having in a family of two or three or four, choosing which kid goes to school that week, maybe no kid goes some weeks. But this parent cooperative one which involves so little money, I mean, if you accepted the proposal, my figure would have been to keep it at the $25, if there's going to be any cost, and try to scale that down, but apparently, if there's been an acceptance by the parents of a proposal for $41, why can't you reach a decision quickly and say while we're studying everything else, we at least want to put these parents to rest with their concerns. Why isn't it possible to arrive at a quick decision since it's an already-existing program?
Well, the Board of Education, like City Council, is a deliberative body, and yesterday, the Board heard for the first time the staff proposal that was being tossed around last week. The Board yesterday for the first time got the proposal from staff and also heard of the report on the meeting from the parent representatives on Friday. There was testimony yesterday from 151 3/13/01 - FINAL FY '02 BUDGET HEARING parents raising some what I would call"fact questions" about even our methodology, whether even if you used our methodology, the numbers were right. And, you know, we're looking at that, as I committed to Councilman Nutter, and are also taking back to the Board the concerns, you know, of this body. And, you know, we hope to be able to get, you know -- reach resolution and in a way that parents know and in ample time for next year.
But first I want to express appreciation to you and Mr. Goldsmith for your courtesy in accepting the call that I made very early yesterday morning and interrupting for a minute or meeting so I could find out what your schedule was, and then for courtesy extended to my representative who was at the hearing. I was here at the hearing that was continuing. But having said that, and I really appreciated that courteous treatment, when you hear all of this concern from City Councilmembers, wouldn't it make sense to try to deal with the problem quickly, expeditiously? You know, it's not like getting a person up to the moon, you know, where you got to study all kinds of 152 3/13/01 - FINAL FY '02 BUDGET HEARING technology as to how you're going to have this thing go up. Or is it that you are unable to do it because I know now, basically, it's a mayor-controlled situation. Before the amendment, the Mayor had to wait, like we in City Council often have to wait, on budgetary matters, 'cause the Board was independent and the staff had these four-year terms. But it seems to me that if the Mayor involved, a recommendation from you for a quick decision by him would probably be honored by him. I know he's gotten several messages from me on the subject and I think from other Councilmembers, and I think he's aware of the problem. So I'm just urging that you deal very quickly with the subject so that there's no need for anybody to consider holding up the education budget on that matter. Now let me shift to the other matter that I'm concerned with. Is there anybody here who would know what the administrative cost is to the School District of your current token and transfer program? 153 3/13/01 - FINAL FY '02 BUDGET HEARING
Mr. Lombardi is not here because at this moment, we are planning for, hopefully, not a SEPTA strike, but we do have a group that as we speak now planning, and Mr. Lombardo's a key member of that planning and that's why he is not here. When you say "administratively," do you mean what it costs in the schools to administer the program, or could you --
Well, all of the costs to the School District principally. There may be costs to SEPTA. It just seems to me that there's a tremendous amount of waste when there's such simple ways of getting people on buses and on public transportation. Because of my age, if I want to use, I can use my Social Security card. I'm told that in Pittsburgh, students oven merely have to show school their school identification card and ride at any time during the day, and the program seems to have worked very well from all of 154 3/13/01 - FINAL FY '02 BUDGET HEARING the reports we can get it of it, with no 3 problems. I don't know why you can't have a school identification card and eliminate whatever there is to the cost of tokens, the cost of transfers, the making availability of the -- making available the tokens to students. You don't need any administrative setup.
And I know that's not the school purpose, but that's SEPTA, but why can't we be working with SEPTA?
Well, we would like to, and my understanding is that there have been efforts -- obviously, they have not been successful. Some of it depends on technology, like, you know, smart cards and things like that, which just isn't here yet from SEPTA's perspective. And having some background in that. I understand it's easier said than done. Mr. Leary and I do have a meeting scheduled for, I think, next week, and hopefully, we can get the 155 3/13/01 - FINAL FY '02 BUDGET HEARING ball moving and figure out a way to do this. I can assure you of one thing: We really do not want to be in business of providing tokens and administering tokens in our schools. Our principals and staff have enough to do, and one of our major attempts is trying to get people to focus on the business of education and not have to be distributing tokens and so forth. That's not our business, we probably don't do a real good job of it because that's not what we're trained to do. And so if we can sit down with SEPTA and try to resolve this issue, part of it is a technology issue and so forth. And no one would be more delighted to do it than the School District.
How you will read the swipe cards. If we're going to use the swipe cards our students use in school today, there's got to be a way to read those cards either to get the tokens or whatever the process is. I mean, that's simply one of them. 156 3/13/01 - FINAL FY '02 BUDGET HEARING I'm not saying it's all technology, but there is issues that have to be resolved, and I can't speak to the background of why they haven't been resolved, but I know these things can be difficult aside from the fact that SEPTA's a regional agency, and they've got other school districts that would confuse the matter. There are issues of, you know, how you do this. I know they were doing a feasibility study a couple years ago, and I way to find out, you know, where that's at. And this is not the point the finger at SEPTA; they've got enough on their hands. All I can say is that it's in our interest as a school district to resolve this issue so we remove the impediments that exist for our kids to get to school, that we remove the administrative burdens that, you know, that plague us in the schools, and we have enough burdens that we have to deal with, so it's in our self-interest to do that, and that's where I want to work to. I can't speak to the issues of involving SEPTA 'cause I haven't sat down with them yet, but I plan to do that, and I think the 157 3/13/01 - FINAL FY '02 BUDGET HEARING meeting is scheduled for next week or the week after.
You know, that concerns us. This issue has been around for a number of years. Now, I know you haven't been the CEO of the School District for very long, but we've never gotten any kind of action except the answer of no, that there isn't enough money enough or there isn't enough technology or there isn't enough of something or other. Why can't those meetings be speeded up?
Well, I think right now, he's probably got his hands full with a couple of other things going on, and I think --
But nothing's happening at the bargaining table, so I think he's got plenty of time.
Well, I can't speak to that, but we do have a meeting scheduled for early next week and there have been meetings. You know, my understanding is that the use of tokens has been around since the early '50s, and it wasn't until 1984 or 1985 where we 158 3/13/01 - FINAL FY '02 BUDGET HEARING got into an issue of subsidizing tokens and so forth. So, you know, there's a history here that goes back 40, 45 years that we got to understand and so forth. But, you know, I share your concern, and I can't give you chapter and verse as to why it hasn't happened sooner, but I am aware of other school districts in Chicago and New York and elsewhere where it's done, and we got to understand what we can do to get it off the dime, if you will.
Well, would an appropriation of a small sum of money -- maybe 2 to $3 million -- be helpful in moving along if that money was limited to the purpose of providing free transportation, say, for children, and could we find out whether that work and how it works?
As long as it's part of a larger appropriation from City Council. That's a different story, but, you know, I mean, 159 3/13/01 - FINAL FY '02 BUDGET HEARING obviously that would help, you know, both financially and try to do what we do in this issue. I don't want to minimize the issue. I think it's important, you know, it's important to get kids to school. But the issue, and I really can't underestimate this and maybe it's 'cause I'm new here and I'm blowing it out of proportion, but the issue is just not getting kids to school; the issue we're facing now is having schools that we can open next September, and that's the real issue that we are wrestling with, and the magnitude of that is --
Why do you say that? I don't understand, I don't know why it's your concern. There are people that can do that -- the person that has to be able to that is the Mayor. There's no way you're going to -- the School Board can produce money.
The Mayor, through the dealings with the Governor, the Council, and maybe the President. I think the federal government intends to play a strong role in 160 3/13/01 - FINAL FY '02 BUDGET HEARING helping to finance education; otherwise what the President says makes no sense. I think he wants to make sense and I think he wants to score some political points and maybe some educational points by showing a strong support for public education, and because the federal government puts in money doesn't mean they have to control education. The same controls can exist as now. But I don't see how the School Board can do that except what you can do is in the area, say, like this parent cooperative, encourage it and publicize it and let the students graduating in the junior and senior and senior year know that if they stay in Philadelphia, this kind of a program is going to be available to them when they get married. I don't know about the Head Start program, I don't know the specific details well enough to know whether that is something that also would be helpful, and if it is, that ought to be publicized that Philadelphia is a place where a young family with generally smaller income can get an excellent beginning for their children in the field of education. I think that would really 161 3/13/01 - FINAL FY '02 BUDGET HEARING keep young brain power here in Philadelphia rather than having this drain on brain power that the Philadelphia advertisement was dealing with, and I'm trying to fine ways to encourage it.
You know, I don't you kind of get a sense of (inaudible) about the fact that some Philadelphia kids can't get to school because there's no money for it and we think we have a good public school education process here? I know we have a good one, I'm a product of it and my four kids are a product of it, and my wife was a product of the public school system in New York. Somehow I managed to get through the University of Pennsylvania and lead the law school class with this public education I got in the public schools, and it wasn't Central; it was Northeast, which was at that time the Northeast Manual Training School. So I think we have -- you know, we have a basically very sound public school system, if we can make it work all throughout the City of Philadelphia. And then you have this very innovative program, and instead of supporting it and really 162 3/13/01 - FINAL FY '02 BUDGET HEARING getting national attention for it 'cause I don't think many places have a program like this parent cooperative. You know, I think we ought to utilize it. And the other question is, how do you get all of the kids to school, you know, in a free public school system. So I would like to urge a sense of urgency. SEPTA will never feel urgent. I don't think they need any new equipment, whatever. I don't think there's any more cost to them. And if occasionally in one neighborhood, everything will be crowded, I think maybe we can, with your cooperation, can maybe adjust school hours if necessary to meet the transportation needs. In most places, that won't be necessary; they have a lot of, you know, present transportation equipment.
And this is the first real conversation we've had since the time I think I drove you around City Hall one day, right after you had left the Rendell Administration. I 163 3/13/01 - FINAL FY '02 BUDGET HEARING think I was traveling in the car and you were walking, and I asked you what you were going to do, and I said you were too good for us to lose in public service.
Thank you. You have a far better memory that than I do, and I appreciate it. Thank you.
Councilman, I know you touched on the tokens or transportation issue. Did you ask the question as to how much that would cost to provide tokens to the students?
I asked the question, but there was nobody here to answer it as to what it would cost.
Well, I think that this has been discussed for some time. I'm sure that somebody must an indication.
And what does that do; is that for all students?
$2.5 million right now is the net unreimbursed cost to the District in providing free and reduced tokens to the current population of students that use them, which is not all students.
And any proposal, I think, has to cover (inaudible), Madam President.
I think any program has to cover those students other than public schools. I think any transportation program has to cover in the parochial and the private school kids of the same age. Otherwise, you know, I think if the parents have a choice of sending the children elsewhere, we've still got to cover them. So if it's 2.5 for public, there has to be 165 3/13/01 - FINAL FY '02 BUDGET HEARING something added for the non-public schools.
Just to clarify. The $2.5 million is now the net unreimbursed cost to the School District. The students that buy tokens, that pay that reduced rate contribute another $7.9 million.
Well, Madam President, I think a fund of 2.5 to $3 million to provide transportation. . .
Just one point of information. I didn't understand the last -- either didn't understand or didn't hear completely what Miss Chatzkel said. I heard a number of $7.9 million. I don't know what that number went with and I don't know what that number means in relationship to the 2.5.
The total payments made to SEPTA this year, the projected payments for free and reduced -- free-to-students and reduced- cost-to-students tokens is in excess of $15 million. Students contribute about 166 3/13/01 - FINAL FY '02 BUDGET HEARING $7.9 million when they pay 90 cents instead of $1.15 for a reduced-cost token.
The School District pays for the rest, about $7.5 million, but we are reimbursed for about two-thirds of that cost so there's a net cost to us after reimbursement of about $2.5 million.
If there were an aim to have somebody fully cover the cost, providing free transportation to this pool of students, it would be $2.5 million for the School District's unreimbursed portion and $7.9 million for what the current students pay.
So in a total free environment, is that what people are talking about?
And there's a question 167 3/13/01 - FINAL FY '02 BUDGET HEARING also, Councilman, that --
Madam President, the Councilman's trying to get recognized.
$2.5 million is to reimburse the School District or to cover the School District's unreimbursed for what's happening now, the status quo.