Committee Hearing, April 19, 2004

Yes. The title would be Assistant Managing Director and Deputy Managing Director. There are five Deputy Managing Directors, Assistant Managing Directors. 15

Okay. Can you, 16 before you leave today -- I am assuming you 17 don't have a level under that, or do you, 18 under assistants? 19

There would be 20 secretaries and analysts and things like that.

Okay. Can you, before you leave today, get me a chart, staffing chart, starting with yourself, the deputies and the assistants, and give me the duties and responsibilities of those 68 OPERATING BUDGET - BILL NO. 020455 - 4/19/04 individuals? One of the things that has been somewhat confusing to me is who reports to who. I know that in some instances you have people that have relationships with the MOCS who actually report directly to the Managing Director's Office or deputy in the Managing Director's Office, but not to the head of the MOCS. And similar types of situations throughout the government as it relates to the Managing Director and some of the service deliveries. And I am not really sure who reports to who or who is ultimately responsible to who. So if you can get me a chart that tells me who reports to who, who is responsible for what, that would be extremely helpful.

Sure. We can do that.

Vehicles. And I want to, like Councilman Ramos, compliment the 69 OPERATING BUDGET - BILL NO. 020455 - 4/19/04 Administration for attempting to -- in aggressively seeking to reduce the fleet. What I would like to ask you is the criteria associated with determining fleet reduction. Who, in terms of employees, has the ability to have a vehicle during the course of the work day, a vehicle overnight, how the vehicles are utilized during the course of the day, what process is set up to determine who gets what vehicle during the course of the day and who gets to take it home. Talk to me about that.

Let me tell you, and we will get you more detail. Let me tell you how -- we have gone through this particular process. We went out and, with the support of Public Financial Management, developed a number of criteria in looking at whether our automobiles were being effectively utilized. And, for example, one of the criteria that was looked at was how much usage they were getting. And we were able to do 70 OPERATING BUDGET - BILL NO. 020455 - 4/19/04 that by getting the gas mileage that each car used during the year.

Did you say you went out and did what? You hired somebody?

Public Financial Management was doing that.

Who is that?

Public Financial Management is a consulting firm, which is located in Philadelphia, PFM.

PFM?

PFM, yes.

When did you hire them?

When did we hire them? I will have to get you the exact date.

Can you include the cost of the contract?

Sure. July of '03, and we will get you the cost.

July '03.

Yes.

Can you get me 71 OPERATING BUDGET - BILL NO. 020455 - 4/19/04 the cost of that contract?

Yes.

Go ahead.

So looking at what other cities have done and so forth, they have developed criteria, trying to determine whether the cars were being adequately used. And some of those criteria -- and we will get you a list of the complete criteria -- was the mileage, which we determined by gas. So if someone was only filling their car up a couple of times a month, it led to the question of, why did that individual have a full-time car. We were looking at the cost of maintenance of those cars, a number of other criteria which we will get you.

Excuse me. Fleet Management wouldn't have that information?

Yes, fleet will have all that information.

Wouldn't Fleet 72 OPERATING BUDGET - BILL NO. 020455 - 4/19/04 Management know the cost of maintaining a vehicle?

Yes. And they were the ones to provide all the information.

So why did we hire somebody to go to Fleet Management to ask them what the cost of maintaining a vehicle was?

We were trying to establish a process that helped us determine what the criteria should be, what other cities have done. We were looking at what other cities have done to reduce their fleet, as well as the private sector, and so forth. PFM brought a particular experience to that level. Fortunately, our Fleet Management has the capacity and the capabilities of providing those types of information because of our automated fuel system and the records that we have. But in designing the program and the criteria, we felt it was important to have a consultant that could help us do that. 73 OPERATING BUDGET - BILL NO. 020455 - 4/19/04 After we established the criteria, we sat down with every department and said, this is what we have found about your cars: Here is the car, this is how many miles are on it, this is the gas, et cetera, et cetera, using those criteria. And then sat down with each department head, or whoever was assigned by that department head to sit down with this group that was doing this analysis. We started out with what I will call the staff departments, as opposed to the operating departments. So we started out with things like Procurement, Finance Department, Managing Director's Office. But we have not gone to the operating departments as of yet. And then each department was able to say -- if we said, based on our analysis, here are five cars we see that don't meet the criteria, we can't justify having a car for this, a full-time car for this department, each department was given a period of time to get back to us and tell us why they thought they needed the car. 74 OPERATING BUDGET - BILL NO. 020455 - 4/19/04

Did PFM do all this work, or was it some of that done internally?

No; this was done by both fleet, the Managing Director's Office, and the Budget Office.

So what exactly did PFM do? Did they access the information and turn to over to the city, and then you did your analysis? What did they do?

I don't know the answer off of top of my head. I would have to get you the precise role that they played. But I think they helped us do the analysis, once we got the information helped us organize it.

Did they get the information or did we get the information?

No. We got the information.

We, the city, got the information and then turned it over to PFM, or did they get the information and turn it over to us? 75 OPERATING BUDGET - BILL NO. 020455 - 4/19/04

No; I believe we got the information. They probably had some computer program, software programs, to organize the information in a way that we thought we could compare each department in a fair and objective point of view. So it was -- but I will have to get you more details as to who played what role in this.

All right. I know my time is up. I will follow up on the next round.

Thank you. The Chair recognizes Councilwoman Miller.

Thank you, Madam President. Good morning, Mr. Goldsmith.

Good morning.

I want to have some followup questions to the expanded code enforcement, quality of life program. One of the biggest constituent 76 OPERATING BUDGET - BILL NO. 020455 - 4/19/04 service areas and calls that we get are about quality-of-life-type crimes, I will call them, out in neighborhoods. And I just have some questions regarding how -- I know that everyone says this program has been very successful in Council District 6. And I just have some questions around the process and what helps make it successful or not successful. In your testimony, you said that CLIP addresses high weeds, dumping of private property, graffiti, vandalism, and noncompliance with trash collection schedule. What are you doing, or is it a problem -- it may not be a problem in District 6. I know it is a problem in my area. And it just seems very, very hard, very difficult, to do anything about, and that's just about the fact that people don't like to clean up after their dogs. Have you encountered those kind of problems out there? And, if so, what are you doing? And are these people getting citations or is there abatement? What's happening in 77 OPERATING BUDGET - BILL NO. 020455 - 4/19/04 that area?

Let me ask Deputy Managing Director Conway to talk about that.

Dogs in their backyard, not so much on the streets.

With regards to dog feces, there is a major problem with it at playgrounds, so on and so forth. We would have the signs posted with the Streets Department to inform the people to walk their dog on a leash, to pick up after their dog. With regards to it being on private property, we would issue a code violation notice. We do not abate dog feces.

I know you might want to laugh, but this is a really major problem in my district. I just got a six-page letter from a constituent dealing with this same issue year after year at the same location. And at some point, I am really a Council member that calls for stronger enforcement. And I agree that maybe we do need to raise the fine from $25 to $75. We 78 OPERATING BUDGET - BILL NO. 020455 - 4/19/04 have to do something to get people to comply. But it is really a big issue. In the summer people are complaining they cannot open their windows. And many parts of my district has large back yards, and it is really, really, really a nuisance out in the neighborhood. I am sure other districts have that similar type problem. So that's problem that I would really like you to -- maybe we can figure out what we can do to get people to clean up behind these dogs and clean up this dog feces.

If it was one specific location that was a problem property, we would forward that information to L & I, try and get it into a court system, enforce the property owner to clean that up. But that would have to go through the courts.

All right. Speaking of the courts, one of the questions I have had is that, if you have had to take anyone in the CLIP test area to court, how are the courts handling this? We have a big problem in our 79 OPERATING BUDGET - BILL NO. 020455 - 4/19/04 district -- I'm sure in other Council districts the same -- with short-term dumping and just dumping, period. And one of the complaints from a couple of the police officers that I spoke to that are on that type of duty, where they are monitoring these short-term dumping sites, is that they really don't -- that the MC judges do not take it serious when these people are brought to court. And the attitude is just about, oh, why did you bring this here to me. I mean, this is like a nuisance type of hearing they don't want to be bothered with. Have you heard that?

We have heard that. In fact, I have asked the City Solicitor to help us work on that issue, and actually just sent him a memo outlining the problem that we see from our end, and see if we can't come up with a solution to it. But I think it is a problem that we have heard many times.

These 80 OPERATING BUDGET - BILL NO. 020455 - 4/19/04 short-term dumping sites are really, really bothersome to people in neighborhoods. I was at a community meeting the other night, and I couldn't believe the number of sites that people gave me. And, you know, people are using that sort of as a trash collection yard. I mean, you would almost think it was a city yard, where you could actually bring your trash to. And these places are all over my district. I am sure they are all over other Council districts. I also want to talk about the vacant property, the vacant lot program. Can you give us an inventory of the equipment? And how is this vacant lot -- is it divided up by neighborhood, by sections of the city? I guess in terms of their storage yards. Because one of the problems in my district in particular is, when the crew comes out to clean, they don't have the adequate equipment, the large pieces of equipment, to use on some of the lots where they may need a 81 OPERATING BUDGET - BILL NO. 020455 - 4/19/04 front-end loader or some of the other types of equipment that's used to effectively do a good job. So I would really like to know that, what equipment do you have, and how is it divided up citywide? Because I think the people that come out in the area that I serve are getting the short end of the stick, they don't really have adequate equipment.

The vacant lot program is broken down into three separate zones, basically about 10,000 lots per zone. With regards to the equipment, we can get you a breakdown of it, what's assigned by zone. What happens is that the surveyor will go out, take a look at the lots in the area, determine what type of equipment is required, report back to the supervisor. When we started the program, we did need a lot of large equipment, such as front-end loaders, dump trucks. As the program progressed, it has become more of just litter and high weeds on 82 OPERATING BUDGET - BILL NO. 020455 - 4/19/04 the lots, so we don't need as much large equipment. But we can get you a breakdown of what's assigned by area.

I agree that some of the lots you don't need the large equipment, and it has gotten into more of a litter removal kind of program. But there are some lots in my district that need the large pieces of equipment, but it has not been available. So, therefore, we still have -- and if you want me to, I can give you a list of exactly what I am talking about.

If you would provide us with a list, we will get the equipment out there that is required.

All right. Thank you. Thank you, Madam President.

You are welcome. The Chair recognizes Councilwoman Tasco.

Thank you. 83 OPERATING BUDGET - BILL NO. 020455 - 4/19/04 Just following Councilwoman Miller's thought in terms of the short-term dumping. I notice on of the budget detail, you state that the city will spend 150,000 in federal grant dollars for police overtime for surveillance and arresting graffiti and short-dump offenders. If we have police that are assigned to do surveillance around short dumping, why is it that we can't seem to catch the dumpers, when we report constantly the same locations where they are dumping?

The funding for the graffiti and the surveillance is for the local law enforcement block grant dollars. And that is used to reimburse the Police Department to do surveillance at locations. It is usually out of the neighborhood services unit. And the Police Department --

That doesn't answer my question. If we are using the police to do surveillance around short dumping, why can't we catch the people that are short dumping, if 84 OPERATING BUDGET - BILL NO. 020455 - 4/19/04 you have a chronic location, as Councilwoman mentioned, and we have reported at times? You can't seem to catch the guys. And if we have money that's being spent to provide surveillance for that, there ought to be some return for the dollars spent.

I don't have the answer for that. I don't know how many short dumpers were arrested within the last year, but I am sure the Police Department would have those figures.

Maybe they will be able to give us that information, at least for these police who are doing the surveillance.

We will try to get you the information.

Well, they will testify, I am sure. They are here and may have an answer for it. Or why are the federal funds being used and not General Fund dollars allocated for the Police Department for this?

Well, we try to use 85 OPERATING BUDGET - BILL NO. 020455 - 4/19/04 federal funds and state funds to help us, particularly at a time when operating dollars are pretty scarce. So if we can get grants, we would prefer to do that. It is simply a question of economics.

So there is no -- although the dollars come out from your office, there is no report back to you around the effectiveness of the expenditure of these dollars?

I have not seen one. I would certainly ask for one.

We would like to know how many short-dumping perpetrators are arrested, and where, to determine if the money is well spent.

That's fine.

According to -- you may have answered this question. I am sorry if you have. You talk about the quality of life section, the CLIP program, to be expanded in targeted zip codes this summer. 86 OPERATING BUDGET - BILL NO. 020455 - 4/19/04 I imagine you will work with the Councilpeople on selecting those zip codes?

That's correct.

How does the expansion of this program in targeted zip codes impact on the ability to provide these services to those areas not in the zip codes?

Well, what I see as the targeted zip code approach is, where we are going to be, I will call, proactive because of the nature of the issues in the zip codes that you would identify in your councilmanic district, for example. And there we are going to have a much more systemic proactive approach to it. In other areas we will be, as we are today, more complaint-driven. So if you have issues in another zip code, or something like that, and we receive a complaint, we are going to deal with that. But I think that there are certain areas which we are trying to identify, saying, because of your knowledge of that district and what's going on in particular problems, this 87 OPERATING BUDGET - BILL NO. 020455 - 4/19/04 is where we want to be proactive and we have to take a more aggressive approach. But for other issues that come up, we will respond as we do today.

You are going to create a problem for us, because we have to make a selection of where it is in the program. And then the other residents of our districts, you know, get upset because they don't get the program, and why don't we have the program. And that's all you hear when you go out to a community meeting, why did you select that community over another. You know -- and you know how I feel about the whole program. I think that enforcement should be citywide.

And we plan to make it citywide. But we plan to do it, you know, proactively where we see a problem. You may have a zip code that you have identified for high weeds, for example, and another zip code you have identified for something else. 88 OPERATING BUDGET - BILL NO. 020455 - 4/19/04 But some zip codes simply don't have the problem that require us to put the resources there, but they may have another type of problem that we want to address. So we want to just get a little more targeted and surgical on it, because we don't have the resources to just blanket the whole city to do it.

And I agree that, but the constituents don't believe that. They all believe that they have the worst problems in their neighborhood.

I have been out there, and I understand. And sometimes they think their neighborhood is the only neighborhood.

You, on of the budget detail, the city will receive a grant to respond to threats of biological terrorism. Under this grant, the city will enter into a 452,000-plus personal services contract. Who will receive these contracts? I noticed they were -- also this money was 89 OPERATING BUDGET - BILL NO. 020455 - 4/19/04 appropriated in 2004. Who were the contractors? And will those contractors receive the contracts in 2005, carry over?

Let me ask Mike Nucci to handle that, if he can.

Councilwoman, on this particular grant, we are not sure this money is going to come in. The money has been trickling in from the federal government for biological threats and terrorism. So this is money that we may get next year. This is not cast in stone. And the money is used to be appropriated among categories at this point in time, but no 16 specific identities for any of the dollars. We just kind of spread it in there and hope we get the money next year.

Has the federal government given you any indication that it will come in, for you to put it in the budget? Have you applied for it?

Introduce yourself. Sit down and introduce yourself.

Mike Nucci, I am 90 OPERATING BUDGET - BILL NO. 020455 - 4/19/04 the Director of Emergency Management, part of the Managing Director's Office. That particular budget item is the Metropolitan Medical Response System, I think you are referring to. We have gotten in the past in the neighborhood of $250,000 a year. And, basically, that was to replace the pharmaceuticals that expire for our MMRS team, that's Metropolitan Medical Response System. Which, basically, in layman's terms is the three decon teams, decontamination teams, that are within the fire department; and the emergency medical services, which has the anecdotes for nerve agents, things like that. They expire in about 30 months, that's the shelf life of these things. So that money is to replace the expired pharmaceuticals. We expect that probably for next year that particular program will disappear and will all be rolled into the whole homeland security program. 91 OPERATING BUDGET - BILL NO. 020455 - 4/19/04 What's happening at the federal level, a lot of these smaller programs that have been going on for a number of years are being kind of rolled into one big program.

Well, why would this money not be appropriated under the Police Department?

Under the Police Department?

Or the Fire Department. Why is it in the Managing Director's department?

Because my office is responsible through the state and the federal government for coordinating all the homeland security funds. So what we do is get lists of what the Fire Department needs, what the Police Department needs, and then the money gets appropriated accordingly.

Thank you.

You are welcome. The Chair recognizes Councilman Kenney. 92 OPERATING BUDGET - BILL NO. 020455 - 4/19/04

Thank you, Madam President. Councilman Nutter had raised some issues relative to school pedestrian safety. And I just wanted to make sure that everyone knew that on Thursday at 2:00 p.m. the Joint Committee of Legislative Oversight and Public Safety will be conducting a hearing to discuss this. We have experts coming in from Phoenix, Baltimore, and Florida, three governments that actually do a very good job at school pedestrian safety. They are going to come in and tell us what they have done, and we are going to try to get our arms around this a little more. I know the Managing Director has been looking at the issue and going to make recommendations, also. But I just wanted to make sure people knew that that hearing is at 2:00 p.m. on Thursday. I want to go back for a moment to questions that Councilman Ramos was raising relative to overtime. There are regular cabinet meetings, 93 OPERATING BUDGET - BILL NO. 020455 - 4/19/04 aren't there? You attend regular cabinet meetings. How often are they held?

They are now being held once every two weeks. They had been held once a week.

Once a week for the months that you were there? 10

Yes. 11

And who attends 12 those meetings? 13

The Mayor, Chief of 14 Staff, Secretary of External Affairs, 15 Secretary of Planning Commission, Managing Director, City Solicitor, Commerce Director, Police Commissioner. I think I have got everyone.

And in that 15-month period, the issue of overtime never came up?

I am not saying it didn't come up.

It was discussed. 94 OPERATING BUDGET - BILL NO. 020455 - 4/19/04

We discussed a lot of different issues at cabinet meetings.

Well, relative specifically to overtime, what was discussed?

I can't recall. Because generally it is not those types of meetings. The Mayor would also have meetings with the operating departments in clusters, that we would get together on a regular basis and discuss issues.

Would the finance people also be there?

Yes.

So on the small cluster meetings, was the issue of overtime raised?

Issue of finances were raised, issues of overtime were raised. And then we would have, I believe, quarterly meetings with the Budget Director and his staff, the Managing Director and his staff, with the individual operating departments to go over their budgets. 95 OPERATING BUDGET - BILL NO. 020455 - 4/19/04

And I wouldn't be overstating if I said that the issue of overtime is a serious issue relative to our $227 million deficit; is that a fair statement?

I think overtime is an issue that needs to be addressed, yes.

But it is a major issue in this 227 hole? I mean, it is pension issues, it is overtime --

I don't want to minimize the issue of overtime, because I think it is an important issue. I wouldn't say it is a major issue that has created the issue we find ourselves in. I think health and pension costs are more.

I know they are more. But how much did we spend on overtime in that 15-month period?

We spent $134 dollars in Fiscal Year '03. We are projected to spend $117 million in this Fiscal Year. So I think, you know, we have 96 OPERATING BUDGET - BILL NO. 020455 - 4/19/04 decreased the overtime. And I think the Police Department has also decreased the overtime, when you look at their numbers.

I am not discounting the fact that overtime is an issue you are trying to deal with and that you are reducing it. But I can't believe that of the 134 million I think in '03, the smallest businesses in the city, when they do their analysis and sit down and look at their quarterlies or look at their monthlies, they do look at personnel costs. And I can't believe that no one in that room of intelligent people, whether in the larger cabinet meeting or in a smaller cluster meeting, ever said, wow, do you know what we are looking at here, and do you know what we are going to be looking at next year if we don't get a handle on this now. I mean, to me, that that discussion didn't happen scares more than the fact that we spent quite crazy in '03 on overtime.

Well, I have, 97 OPERATING BUDGET - BILL NO. 020455 - 4/19/04 unfortunately, given the wrong impression. Those conversations took place all the time. If you sit in the meetings with the Budget Director and his staff with the operating departments, every line is gone through. And it is gone through in terms of what's going on in their department, both fiscally and how is it -- how does it align itself to the service measurements that we are trying to get.

So the department heads were aware of the problem, but no measures were taken to deal with it until after '03?

I think measures were taken. I think if you look at Fiscal Year '04, which I would be glad to provide you, you will see a significant reduction in the Police Department overtime. You will see a $17 million, almost a 10 percent, decrease in overtime. Some overtime you are going to have just because you are going to have it. And 98 OPERATING BUDGET - BILL NO. 020455 - 4/19/04 what we have to do is gauge the appropriate amount of overtime. We have the Greek Picnic. The Greek Picnic is a million dollars worth of overtime. The Mardis Gras last year was $177 million -- $177,000 of overtime. This year we decreased it to $138,000. These are events, unfortunately, that, to some extent are outside of our control. Now, how we man these events and how we deploy them are things that we were working at.

But those events weren't the bulk of the overtime in the Police Department, were they?

I think when you look at --

Wasn't Safe Streets really the bulk of the overtime in the Police Department?

Safe Streets is a good chunk of the overtime. And I think if you look at court overtime, which we have discussed, is a good 99 OPERATING BUDGET - BILL NO. 020455 - 4/19/04 chunk of the overtime.

I just find it incredulous that we saw this coming and really did nothing to stop it from happening until after we are in a hole for $227 million. As a member of the Board of Directors of this company, despite the lack of information we receive, I find it very difficult to believe.

Okay.

Let me move a minute to the CLIP program. It is currently operating in which districts now?

6, 7, and 10.

And how was that decision made, to operate in 6, 7, and 10? Who made the decision on 6, 7, and 10, as opposed to 1, 2, and 4, or 8, 9, and 1? I mean, how did that happen?

Let me have Tom help me out a little bit, and then I will take it from there. Because CLIP started before I got here. 100 OPERATING BUDGET - BILL NO. 020455 - 4/19/04

When the Mayor's Neighborhood Transformation Initiative was unfolding, basically we worked with different people to find out what the quality of life problems were in their area. Councilwoman Krajewski's staff and the Managing Director's Office worked on a plan together to come up with the CLIP concept.

So that was for 6. How did 7 and 10 get it?

Well, after the 6th Councilmanic District was swept, we geographically just moved into the next Council districts.

Geographically south is District 1. Geographically -- I mean, the 6th District borders on two other districts, I would guess. I mean, three other districts. I just need to know -- I guess the bottom line is, do you really think it is fair for the rest of the city not to have this -- and I applaud Councilwoman Krajewski's office 101 OPERATING BUDGET - BILL NO. 020455 - 4/19/04 for having the idea. I applaud other Council Members for trying to get it. But do you really think Managing Director -- Tom, I am not going to ask you to answer, because you are the operations guy on the ground -- do you really think it is fair that people throughout the city, who have similar problems as in the 6th and 7th and 10th do not get that kind of support and do not get that kind of service for no good reason that I can understand?

I think the program was started as a pilot program. And I think pilot programs always -- you always make a decision where you are going to start a pilot program. The decision was made. I think what we are trying to do, because of the success of the program, is to expand this in a way which we think is affordable, which is in a way that is fair, and can do the work. But I think it is also a mistake to think because CLIP wasn't in individual areas, that nothing was done in those areas. My 102 OPERATING BUDGET - BILL NO. 020455 - 4/19/04 office has been, and I am sure my predecessors before we, very responsive to the requests that members of this Council have. We can show you the number of CVNs written in councilmanic districts for trash and litter, for high weeds, for graffiti, and so forth.

But there are no 10 press conferences for those, there are no 11 stories in the paper for those. There is no, you know, extolling the virtues of this program for those. That's just done on a regular day-to-day basis. And, again, Councilwoman Tasco raised this, and others have raised it. Can't you understand that the average taxpayer living in the 1st or 2nd or 4th or 9th watches this stuff and says, I have as much a problem with high weeds and dog feces and beat-up properties as anybody, why am I an orphan here? I just don't think it is fair. And I think that the decisions were made in a political way, which makes it even further 103 OPERATING BUDGET - BILL NO. 020455 - 4/19/04 unfair, that these neighborhoods -- I mean Council Verna's district I know clearly, because I live across the street from it, has serious problems. There is no reason in the world why that shouldn't be part of the CLIP program. And why we are delaying the implementation of this, to me, is just unbelievable. I am sorry. I think my time went up.

Thank you, Councilman. The Chair recognizes Councilman Nutter.

Mr. Goldsmith, this is not where I was when we left, but you just raised it about the overtime issue. You mentioned that the Greek Picnic was a million dollars in overtime?

I believe that's what my records reflect.

What was the overtime before the size of the Greek Picnic 104 OPERATING BUDGET - BILL NO. 020455 - 4/19/04 dramatically reduced over the past couple of years?

I don't have that information. I could try to get it.

But you just happen to know that it was a million dollars last year?

Yes.

What was the overtime for Welcome America?

I will get that for you in a minute.

Madam Chair, I would only ask that I not be charged the time in terms of delay in getting a response. I think this is -- I think we may be seeing the start of a new tactic, a new stratagem created where you ask a question in 15 seconds and it takes 4 minutes and 45 seconds to get an answer. I am not paranoid, but it is just -- I am starting to notice a pattern.

I will have to get you the answer, Councilman. 105 OPERATING BUDGET - BILL NO. 020455 - 4/19/04

I knew that. Two minutes later I knew I was getting the old, got to get back to you. Okay. All right.

Do you want to know if it was more than a million dollars? Maybe he can answer that question.

Welcome America is about a week. So, I mean, you know, Greek Picnic is a day. It's been decreasing in participants. I mean, I just thought that it was interesting that that, you know, gets highlighted as one of the major cost factors for an event that has, with a great amount of support certainly from the city, turned itself around from some difficult times some years ago; but in a discussion of overtime, is now highlighted as, you know, one of the great drivers of overtime costs. I mean, how many events do we have a year, major events? Either on the Parkway or out in the park?

Councilman, what I 106 OPERATING BUDGET - BILL NO. 020455 - 4/19/04 was suggesting, I was not trying to put the overtime problem on Greek Picnic. I was citing the Greek Picnic as I would the Mardis Gras, and I would site snow storms and so forth that are events that are somewhat out of our control.

I understand that.

Let me answer your question.

Welcome America is actually in our control. I think it is our event. So, what's the overtime.

The actual cost for Fiscal Year '03 was $462,904, of which --

This is for Welcome America?

This is for Welcome America. Which Public Property was $76,000; Streets Department, $17,000; Recreation, $12,000; L & I, $20,000; Police, $250,000; Fairmount Park, $77,000; and Health Department, $601; and Fire, $9,000. So the total cost that we have is 107 OPERATING BUDGET - BILL NO. 020455 - 4/19/04 460 -- approximately $463,000.

Well, how many people came to the Greek Picnic last year? You are really eating into my time here, but now we have a situation.

Since the Greek Picnic -- we don't have those numbers, since it is not an official event. I think, clearly --

I think it is an official event.

Certainly the audience in the park was significantly reduced. Down on South Street and on North Broad Street and so forth, there were a number of people. But we have to prepare for the worst on some of these events.

I understand that. How is it possible that a one-day event could generate a million dollars in overtime, but a week-long event would only 108 OPERATING BUDGET - BILL NO. 020455 - 4/19/04 generate 400 -- what was that number, $462,000? How is that possible?

I think it is probably the amount of police presence that was assumed that was needed at these different events.

So we have an extraordinary planning for the worst with the Greek Picnic. How long is the Welcome America celebration?

I'm not sure. I think it is about ten days.

Ten days?

Yes.

And no 18 particular extraordinary planning goes into that?

Oh, extraordinary planning goes into that.

What's the total cost of the Welcome America event?

According to my numbers that I am showing here, was $463,000 109 OPERATING BUDGET - BILL NO. 020455 - 4/19/04 for Welcome America.

I thought you said those were the overtime costs?

I have these as -- I have these as actual costs.

The actual costs?

Yes.

For the whole event? You are saying just for the city?

No. This is what I am showing, I have to figure out whether it is the entire cost or just the costs we are showing for departmental costs and whether it is overtime. Is that overtime?

I would be hard-pressed to believe that the entire Welcome America celebration costs $400,000.

It is all costs.

It is what costs?

It is all costs for city departments. 110 OPERATING BUDGET - BILL NO. 020455 - 4/19/04

That wasn't my question. My question was, what is the total cost of putting on the Welcome America celebration?

Since I am just responsible for providing the city services, and not for the entire event, I will have to get you answers to that. I don't have them here.

Well, who would know that?

I don't know. I would have to check.

Well, doesn't your office do the bulk of the coordination of that particular event?

If you are asking total costs --

Excuse me. Councilman Ramos.

Just a point of information. So the $462,000, whatever number that was, is not a correct number; is that what you are saying, Mr. Managing Director? 111 OPERATING BUDGET - BILL NO. 020455 - 4/19/04

Those are city costs. Welcome America has other costs associated with it because it involves other people.

So the costs could have been greater than the 400,000-some dollars; right?

Sure. Entertainment costs and so forth.

But you don't have those numbers?

I do not. These are the costs of the city departments.

So who is in charge of the event?

I think Welcome America is -- basically comes out of the City Rep's office, but I'm not totally positive.

Well, I am a little hard-pressed to leave the record the way it is. Because I think it has a tremendous amount of discrepancy, given this conversation. Because it is not possible that 112 OPERATING BUDGET - BILL NO. 020455 - 4/19/04 that event could only cost $462,000 under any set of circumstances. And, to be honest with you, given the number of events in the various venues, I would actually question how you could have ten days of events all over the city and that cost would be half of a one-day event probably involving much fewer people. So what I would like to ask, Mr. Managing Director, is if you could have someone -- because you have a fair number of bodies with you here today -- have somebody figure out who is in charge of the event, what the total costs are. And I would like to know what the answers to those questions are before we close this record on this particular issue.

I think someone just joined the Director at the table.

My name is Bob Allen. I am Assistant Managing Director. I think I can help with some of the issues here because I have worked on some of the numbers and have developed the costs for 113 OPERATING BUDGET - BILL NO. 020455 - 4/19/04 special events with the various departments. Welcome America costs far more than $450,000, but a great deal of that is expensed directly to the event sponsors. And, so, what you see here on this page are only the direct city costs. There are many events involved in that program all week long. And although I don't have the total cost, a lot of it is managed through the City Representative's office, and it is dealt directly with the sponsors.

And do the event sponsors pick up any of the city costs? Are they built into the program.

A portion of what we have here has been reimbursed to the city by event sponsors, but not all.

Then --

In other words, the event costs far more than the sponsors provide.

I would like to see a full breakdown of the entire event. I 114 OPERATING BUDGET - BILL NO. 020455 - 4/19/04 would like to get a better understanding of the overtime costs involved. And then I would like to see for some of the other events that take place in the city, major events, what those costs are, as well.

We have that.

If we are going to have a full overtime discussion, I would like to be able to compare.

We have that detail available.