Committee Hearing, April 19, 2004

In the unclear situation over there, you know, citizens, or authorized parkers, are kind of all over the place. And sometimes people don't necessarily utilize the space in the most efficient 257 OPERATING BUDGET - BILL NO. 020455 - 4/19/04 fashion, because you can park wherever you want.

Basically.

Should we have boxes, or something like that.

Why don't you lay it out?

We can, actually, look at that as an option. If it is working more efficiently on 15th Street, rather than 16th or on JFK, we can certainly look at it. We are always looking at all options to improve the situation.

I understand. I think if you talk to the police officers over there, they would probably tell you it is not too efficient.

Point of information. What's really --

Point of information, Councilman Rizzo.

What's mind-boggling is the fact that we own a 258 OPERATING BUDGET - BILL NO. 020455 - 4/19/04 parking lot underneath the MSB. We lease it out to a subcontractor. It was meant to be our parking lot. We could probably park the city vehicles that we need to, get them off the street, put meters and get revenue around MSB, all these authorized spots. Why, every year when this parking lot comes up for bid, do we just give it away? And I have heard, well, it is profitable. But I believe that the garage was designed to be a support for the city vehicles that require parking. Somebody some day really should look at that and say, the city's garage, maybe we should park city vehicles in it, rather than have it used for the private sector.

Councilman, we actually are looking at that. I have someone from my staff looking at that. I think I indicated earlier, as I understand the lease on that, the city is entitled to 200 discounted parking spaces. And what we are now doing with the Parking 259 OPERATING BUDGET - BILL NO. 020455 - 4/19/04 Authority is trying to define what "discounted" means. To me it means zero, to them it means a little bit more than that. So we are trying to resolve that. But under the lease, we are entitled to 200 discounted spots.

I am not sure it is leased to the Parking Authority. Isn't it leased to a private company?

Yes.

So it is not Parking Authority.

No, it is not the Parking Authority. But our contract allows for 200 discounted spots, and I don't think we have taken full advantage of that.

I think a lot of the heat would go away that we get with all this vehicle talk if we had that parking facility available to park city vehicles and allow the citizens that want to come and do business, the one that parked in the 260 OPERATING BUDGET - BILL NO. 020455 - 4/19/04 Councilman's spot, I think that really somebody should focus on it. But, you know, contract after contract it seems that nobody listens.

Point well taken. As part of the fleet reduction initiative that we are now undergoing, we are also looking at how we get our workers up here because of a lack of parking, the fact that we spend almost $900,000 a year in off-street parking for our employees. One of the options which we are now exploring is creating a shuttle bus service for employees to park in a designated city-owned lot and bring them up to the triplex area. This, of course, is being done in conjunction with also exploring getting additional spaces down at Love Park.

You mean our own city garage, we are going to be able to park our own city cars in it some day? It is very creative. Thank you. 261 OPERATING BUDGET - BILL NO. 020455 - 4/19/04

Madam Chair.

Councilman Nutter.

Thank you. You have been tremendously patient. I know my time is up. But I think it would please Mr. Goldsmith to no end that I probably have three last questions. And, with your permission, if I could ask them, and then I would be done and he could get on with his life. On of the testimony, Mr. Goldsmith, you have the Weed and Seed program. If you could just forward to the Chair the locations where the program is functioning and operating, that would be very helpful. Do you have any information that you might be able to share on an initiative that we have been working on with regard to Fairmount Park public safety?

Yes. A number of things going on. Number one, the Police Commissioner is appointing a police captain to oversee and 262 OPERATING BUDGET - BILL NO. 020455 - 4/19/04 coordinate park safety. So we understand from the entire park, which of course is 8900 acres and goes throughout the city, that we are looking at this from a strategic law enforcement perspective. So I think that's one important component. The second thing that we have done is, we have looked at the availability of cell phone coverage, particularly 911, throughout the park. I think we did something like 800,000 calls, or some large number. And we had someone come in and study that. And what we found out is, where we don't have adequate coverage is in Wissahickon and there is a small band up at Pennypack Park where I think, actually, the band shell was at. So we have engaged someone to come up with other technology that we can use. We are looking for, probably, three or four towers that we can place. Obviously it is going to be sensitive because of the nature of the park and so forth. But I think 263 OPERATING BUDGET - BILL NO. 020455 - 4/19/04 we should have that within a month. We are also talking to Verizon on their pay phones, to put street names on their pay phones around the park. One of the problems that we have with 911 calls is that it does not track, there is not street information in the park. And this is a first step of what we are trying to do.

So if you were at a pay phone, basically, somewhere on the phone it would tell you where you are?

Yes, so you could identify yourself to 911. We are also looking at emergency call boxes to put at the beginning of some of the trails. We have had conversations with Temple and Penn to see what their satisfaction and results have been with those. I was, actually, supposed to get a demonstration last week, but that was cancelled. And that's coming up. I think that there are issues with 264 OPERATING BUDGET - BILL NO. 020455 - 4/19/04 it, but we want to look at that.

You are talking about the kind of call boxes that we see on college campuses?

That's correct, that have the blue lights. We are also looking at some increased lighting, particularly on West River Drive, where I think that there are some dark areas which we have discussed; and also that one bridge, putting a mirror there. We have got the mirror in place. That will be done. We are also -- Karen Borski will probably have a better update than I do -- on getting informational, some plastic cards, made up with some of the rules. We want to have a big campaign handing those out. I think we have been shooting for May 1. Hopefully that will be available. Also looking at some pruning of trees and some other type of maintenance with shrubs to create more of an openness there, and better deployment of our park rangers and 265 OPERATING BUDGET - BILL NO. 020455 - 4/19/04 also some volunteer park patrols. So there are a number of initiatives. I hasten to add that last summer was not a good summer, and we had some terrible tragedies. But I think we always walk a fine line by trying to be responsive to those issues; but also saying that, I think, we have, when you consider that we have an urban park, one of the largest urban parks, that goes around this entire city, that it is basically a safe park, but we are always looking to do better.

Thank you for that update. And I have enjoyed working with you on these issues. And I think we have further conversation coming up shortly. A couple last questions. You mentioned tree pruning specific to the safety issues. But overall in your Appendix A, you make reference to the street tree removal program. One of the things that at times has been a little perplexing is actually getting a 266 OPERATING BUDGET - BILL NO. 020455 - 4/19/04 schedule related to both tree pruning by area, and then -- and certainly I can talk with Fairmount Park -- the at times mystery around when a request goes in for removal and when it actually happens, and then, naturally, the followup on the planting. We can never really seem to, even by season, tell citizens with any certainty when the tree is coming out; and, even after that, when the new one is coming in. So I would like to get some additional information about that.

Okay.

Lastly, what is the transportation policy for the City of Philadelphia? I ask that in the context of, when I look at your testimony, you lay out Emergency Management, Municipal Energy Office, a number of different entities. And it's both a recent assignment, general interest that I have always had, but what is the actual transportation policy, or who is driving -- no pun intended -- the 267 OPERATING BUDGET - BILL NO. 020455 - 4/19/04 transportation policy for the city?

I don't know. It is not part of the Managing Director's Office. I think Planning Commission has a role in there. I think at one point Planning Commission, I would say, is a major driver there. And it is a conversation Maxine Griffith and I have from time to time because it involves so many different components of city government. But I would think, from a planning perspective, it would be Planning Commission. From an operational, it depends on what the department is, and so forth. I think at one time that, I know when I was in city government years ago, 19 that came out of the Mayor's Office. I think 20 at one point it was moved to the Managing Director's Office. And right now I think it is in the Planning Commission.

Okay. It keeps kind of moving around. But, okay. Thank you.

Thank you 268 OPERATING BUDGET - BILL NO. 020455 - 4/19/04 very much. Are there further questions? Further questions or comments?

Madam Chair.

Councilman Rizzo.

The only thing I would like, before the Managing Director leaves, is this policy, whether the Law Department has to be drug in, where a dangerous home, we could move people out, and then there needs to be some process developed where that property then can't go to sheriff, can't go to foreclosure. That it just, it is ludicrous to think that what we heard today could happen. But I would hope that somebody would pick up the ball and prevent that situation from continuing. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Okay.

Thank you very much. Well, it looks like we can move forward. The Police Department is next. 269 OPERATING BUDGET - BILL NO. 020455 - 4/19/04

Good afternoon, Commissioner. Thank you for your patience. We do have a copy of your testimony. A copy will be given to the stenographer. Does the stenographer have a copy? So may I suggest that you abbreviate your testimony. COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: Yes, ma'am.

Thank you. Please proceed. Identify yourself and proceed with your testimony. COMMISSIONER SYLVESTER M. JOHNSON: Sylvester M. Johnson, Police Commissioner, City of Philadelphia. Good afternoon, Council President and members of City Council. It is an honor to appear before you today for the third time as Police Commissioner to present the Police Department's General Fund budget request. With me at the table are Deputy Commissioner Thomas Nestel, Fiscal Officer Thomas DeWaele, my Senior Legal Adviser Karen Simmons. Also accompanying me are Deputy Commissioner Patricia Giorgio-Fox, Deputy 270 OPERATING BUDGET - BILL NO. 020455 - 4/19/04 Commissioner Charlotte Council, Deputy Commissioner Charles Brennan, Executive Officer Marvin Burton. I am presenting to you a budget request that is $14 million less than last year's. This does not mean that we expect the department who have less work to do next year. In fact, we will provide the same level of service or better. We will increase our efforts directed at eliminating open-air drug markets, while continuing to serve search warrants on drug houses. We will devote more effort to reducing the numbers of young people who use drugs, because this is the only effective long-term way of tackling the drug problem in our city. We will be strengthening our program aimed at reducing gun violence and getting guns off the street. The number of homicides in this city still is far too high. Reducing the number of guns on the streets is one of the most serious ways of getting the homicide 271 OPERATING BUDGET - BILL NO. 020455 - 4/19/04 numbers down. We will do even more to make our schools safer for those who learn and work in them. We owe this to our children and our teachers. We will be initiating our new program; namely, reducing noise level in our city, an important quality of life issue. We will do all this without compromising the level of service that we provide in response to the emergency calls for assistance and without reducing our efforts at preventing terrorism or our preparations for responding to major incidents, whether caused by terrorism, accidents, or natural disaster. We will do all this by working more efficiently and effectively. We will reduce our budget, while continuing the high level of police service to the public, because we will be reducing our lump-sum payment to retirees, as fewer employees are expected to retire in FY '05; decreasing personnel costs through the reduction of ranking officers and supervisors; reducing court overtime; eliminating the 272 OPERATING BUDGET - BILL NO. 020455 - 4/19/04 Police Mounted Unit; utilizing grants. We will make better use of technology and generate more revenue from those services which we are able to charge fees. I am confident that the men and women of the Philadelphia Police Department, both uniformed and civilian, will rise to these challenges The Police Department General Fund Budget request for Fiscal Year 2005 is $481,172,558. This figure is $14,683,545 less than our estimated obligation of $495,856,103 in Fiscal Year 2004. It will provide for 6,910 sworn personnel, 1,037 school crossing guards and, 911 civilians. In order to sustain the sworn personnel level, the requested budget will apply for four police classes, totaling 354 recruits. Including the 159 sworn officers assigned to the airport unit that is funded through the city's Aviation Fund, out total sworn strength is Fiscal Year 2005 will be 273 OPERATING BUDGET - BILL NO. 020455 - 4/19/04 7,069. This is the highest level in more than years. 4 The Police Department will be able 5 to sustain personnel level and workload by 6 implementing a number of cost-saving measures, 7 including overtime reduction, revenue 8 generators, without affecting the level of 9 quality of service provided to the citizens of 10 Philadelphia.

11 My written testimony that you all 12 have fully addresses a list of our major 13 accomplishments and initiatives; such as, 14 Operation Safe Streets, Operation GRRIP, 15 anti-terrorist response preparation initiatives, school safety, overtime control program, police reimbursement overtime program, use of technology to enhance our policing. The list also includes our efforts and initiatives to improve the quality of life in Philadelphia. The programs that I have mentioned only represent a small part of what we do every day and every night of every week of the 274 OPERATING BUDGET - BILL NO. 020455 - 4/19/04 year. In addition to the efforts that are listed and highlighted in my written testimony, we answered 1,810,315 calls for service, made 66,000 arrests last year, and served those who work, live and visit our city in countless other ways. " Thank you for this opportunity, and we are prepared to respond to any questions you may have. Thank you.

Thank you, Commissioner. You mention in your testimony that your Class 100 budget is being reduced by $14 million in FY '05. How much of that amount is due to the DROP and also the transfer to grants accounts? COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: I understand 275 OPERATING BUDGET - BILL NO. 020455 - 4/19/04 $10 million.

I think we calculated it to be 14. What, if any, of the $14 million in your reductions have been an operational impact upon your department? COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: Can you repeat that question again, please?

Sure. I would like to know how much of the $14 million in Class 100 that's being reduced is due to DROP and also the transfer to grant accounts? COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: Well, it is 10 million due to DROP, my understanding.

10 million? COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: Yes, ma'am. I'm not sure how many is going to -- it is about 3 million to grants.

What, if any, of the monies in reductions will have an operational impact on your department? COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: I don't believe any of the money that's being reduced. I think what we are trying to do is 276 OPERATING BUDGET - BILL NO. 020455 - 4/19/04 change a lot of different initiatives that we have. I think the effect on our department by analyzing, by making a lot of different changes that we have done so far in the last year, will enhance the services of our department, even though we are reducing our operational budget.

You mention Operation Safe Streets in your testimony and you also mention its accomplishments for FY '04. Can you tell us what the program will encompass in FY '05 and what will be the projected cost? COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: Well, I think, really, what Operation Safe Streets did, it was mentioned earlier today, it changed the quality of life here in the City of Philadelphia. It wasn't about statistics; it is about quality of life. And I also think that, in the very near future, some of the statistics we have here, at least some of the things that we are 277 OPERATING BUDGET - BILL NO. 020455 - 4/19/04 doing, by changing statistics -- not so much changing the statistics, but changing our initiatives -- will put more police officers on the street, but at the same time will enhance the quality of life here in the City of Philadelphia. I'm not sure the exact amount of Safe Streets we would anticipate next year. I have to ask. I am going to ask Deputy Commissioner Patricia Giorgio-Fax to testify, at least to answer that question.

Very well. Good afternoon. Please identify yourself for the record.

Yes. I am Patricia Giorgio-Fox, Philadelphia Police Department. The Operation Safe Streets program has continued in a fairly successful way. What we are doing in the last two months or so is, we are starting to analyze in a more efficient way the hours when the officers are needed so that we can pinpoint when the 278 OPERATING BUDGET - BILL NO. 020455 - 4/19/04 officers need to be there, rather than totally blanket a corner hours a day, 7 days a 4 week. 5 This will, hopefully, be fiscally 6 responsible, but will also get the same 7 effectiveness that we have had in the past. 8 We are doing that through mapping, 9 through crime analysis, in a much more 10 targeted way than we were in the past. 11 As the program progresses, what we 12 have realized is that we need to focus this 13 program. And what we have decided to focus it 14 on, at least for right now, is wanton gun 15 violence. 16

Is what, dear? 17

Wanton gun 18 violence. 19 And, so, actually we have a plan 20 right now in conjunction with the Safe Streets 21 program. And we call this a priority safe 22 streets corner. 23 Whenever we have an outdoor shooting 24 for which there is no immediate motive known, and the corner gives us a history of violence, 279 OPERATING BUDGET - BILL NO. 020455 - 4/19/04 or the individuals involved have a history of either narcotics activity or violence, we then set up what we call priority safe streets corner, where we will have an officer on that corner hours, 7 days a week. 7 So we believe that while we target 8 those corners, the other corners in our 9 program over the last two years have improved 10 to the point where we can randomly cover them 11 during periods of time when that's necessary. 12 And as far as a projection of cost, 13 I know that in the last two months we spent 14 somewhere in the area of 600,000 in overtime. 15 I cannot tell you what the future will hold. 16 We have not been in this mode. 17 This was, April was, the first month 18 that we started this random variable interval 19 coverage. 20

All right. Thank 21 you. 22 Commissioner, you mention the 23 elimination of the mounted unit in your 24 testimony. Can you tell us what this unit costs 280 OPERATING BUDGET - BILL NO. 020455 - 4/19/04 and what are the savings to the department by its elimination? COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: We will save approximately $700,000 a year. And let me say this: I think that the mounted unit is a very effective unit that does a very effective job. But, at the same time, being fiscally responsible, I also realize that by not reducing the mounted unit, that I would probably have to reduce personnel. And when it comes between reducing the mounted and reducing personnel, we made the choice to reduce the mounted unit. Our bike unit has been very effective, and they showed that during the RNC, that they can handle a lot of things the mounted unit used to be able to do. It is not so much that we wouldn't want to reduce just Police Department, but I wouldn't want to see any city employee, no 23 matter what department they worked in, be eliminated because we kept the horses. Approximately ten years ago we had 281 OPERATING BUDGET - BILL NO. 020455 - 4/19/04 175 horses here in the City of Philadelphia. Today we have 17. We had approximately 335 people in the mounted, today we have 26. So although I think the mounted does an outstanding job, I feel as though, being fiscally responsible, that we have to do that to save money.

Are there civilians in that unit? COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: Yes, ma'am, there are.

How many civilians, and what will happen to them? COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: Well, the uniformed police officer will be assigned to other areas. But understand that the civilians, there is approximately -- I'm not sure of the exact numbers, but those other than supervisors have the same classification as, I think, a fingerprint technician. What we would like to do is train them to be our fingerprint technicians. As far as the supervision is 282 OPERATING BUDGET - BILL NO. 020455 - 4/19/04 concerned, I think that's still being discussed.

What will happen to the horses? Are we selling them? COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: No, ma'am, we are not selling any horses at all.

What will we do with the horses? They would still have to be cared for, if we keep them. COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: We are not going to keep them. What's going to happen is that all the horses -- most of the horses that we have were donated. We are asking the people who donated them to have the first choice of giving them back. And I think there are a number of people who have decided to take them back. In addition to that, I think the New Jersey State Police will take any horses that we have leftover. There are other township police officers that want to take our horses that we have leftover. So we will not sell any horse. And 283 OPERATING BUDGET - BILL NO. 020455 - 4/19/04 any horse that even, that we volunteer to give back to, we will investigate. We don't want the horses just to be given to anybody to be misused.

And you say in eliminating the mounted unit, we will be saving what 700,000? COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: $700,000 a year.

Thank you. Commissioner, I would like to have or hear your position on PICA's report in the areas of poor management and lack of oversight and unnecessary personnel rules in the Police Department. Can you comment on that, if you will? COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: Yes, ma'am. First thing, what we would like to do is meet with the PICA to come up with just how they came up with these determinations. The percentage of uniformed officers in the field is misleading because it does not consider the number of civilian employees who 284 OPERATING BUDGET - BILL NO. 020455 - 4/19/04 are available to perform administrative duties. For example, Los Angeles has 3,080 civilian employees, that's percent. 6 Philadelphia has 933 civilian employees. 7 The other question we would like to 8 ask them, are all police departments surveyed 9 comparable in their consideration of the 10 definition of officers in the field. Can the 11 term "field" be defined in some other regard 12 in these cities. These cities differ. 13

Commissioner, you 14 mean PICA never sat with you and discussed 15 what their report was going to be indicating? 16 COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: No, ma'am, 17 they did not. 18 As far as I know, I don't think they 19 discussed it with anybody from the department. 20

Strange. 21

Point of 22 information, Madam President. 23 When Joe Vignola sat in that chair a 24 few days just before, never once said that he 25 even had a report on the Police Department. 285 OPERATING BUDGET - BILL NO. 020455 - 4/19/04 He sat there, and I asked him question after question about different things about the Police Department.

I think that report -- wasn't that delivered to all of us?

Madam President, I asked --

And I think it is on the internet.

But I asked Joe Vignola why he didn't tell Council, when we were talking about the Police Department, talking about the reimbursable program, the Expressway issues, never mentioned once that there was a report, and two days later it gets dropped.

And, as I said, it is on the internet.

But that was after the fact.

Your point is well taken. Thank you.

Thank you.

Commissioner, 286 OPERATING BUDGET - BILL NO. 020455 - 4/19/04 would you elaborate on the overtime controls that you have now put into place. COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: Well, a lot of our overtime is court overtime. And I think also, going back to the PICA report, you know, overtime expenditures do not reflect or compare work rules that maybe other cities may have, where here in the City of Philadelphia we just can't change our work rules because of union concerns. What we, basically, have done is that, as far as people working overtime, if you work two hours, you have to have the approval of a supervisor. If you are going to work over the two hours, you have to have the approval or permission of the commanding officer. There are a whole lot of other things that we are actually putting in place to try to control overtime. One of the things that we do now, Deputy Commissioner Nestel constantly asks each commander to justify their overtime expenditures, what did he do to try to reduce 287 OPERATING BUDGET - BILL NO. 020455 - 4/19/04 it. I think in the last month or so, it has been coming down. We have been meeting with the city government -- not so much with the city government, but with the court administration, with the District Attorney's Office, to try to eliminate unnecessary people going to court. Say, for example, there was one court case in one day where they subpoenaed something like 85 police officers to come to court. We have asked them to monitor that and have their supervisors approve those types of things. Right now I think what we have in place, whenever there are over ten officers that are going to court, that the supervisor has to look at it. In addition to that, I don't see the necessity of an officer going to court for almost a month at a time. Those are our concerns. The other thing, too, when these arrests are made and officers are needed for 288 OPERATING BUDGET - BILL NO. 020455 - 4/19/04 court, we want the supervisors to look over and make sure that the officers on those pieces of papers, on our investigative reports, are actually officers who are actually needed for court. So there are a whole lot of things we are trying to put in place to try to control overtime, to control our overtime.

You know, I think for as long as I have been here, this issue comes up every year. I am delighted to hear that, hopefully, something will be done about it. And I know in past years if there were ten police officers that were at the scene of a crime, ten of them didn't have to appear in the courtroom. Now the laws have changed. But I think if you can continue to work on that, it would really, really make a difference. COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: Well, one of the other things we did in the last four or five months, and by meeting with the District 289 OPERATING BUDGET - BILL NO. 020455 - 4/19/04 Attorney's Office and the court administrators, they requested that I send them more court liaison people, to look over the reports. I transferred ten people over to court liaison. So that everything that the Philadelphia Police Department can do, we will do. But it has to be a cooperative effort between the District Attorney's Office, the Police Department, and the court administration. But we will do our part.

Are police officers on call? I know years ago they used to be on call. Say there was an involuntary manslaughter case going on, and maybe there were 12 other cases listed. The officers involved in these 12 other cases would be on call, if in the event that the involuntary manslaughter case did not proceed. COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: We got away from, really, the on call. Because it appears that what was happening is that certain police officers would go in front of the judges, the 290 OPERATING BUDGET - BILL NO. 020455 - 4/19/04 officer wasn't there right at that moment, they would dismiss the cases. Other times we had police officers that they couldn't get ahold of, even though they were in other courtrooms. So we changed the rules where we didn't want anyone to have a reason to dismiss any criminal in the City of Philadelphia because the officer wasn't physically there at that point. So when the officers are subpoenaed to court, we want them in the courtrooms.

Okay. You mentioned school safety in your testimony. Can you tell us what you will be doing in FY '05 in this area. Well, we are communicating quite often with the school police and the school administrators. In addition to that, each captain has to have a report with the principals of the certain areas that they work in. At our CompStat, again, Deputy Commissioner Fox specifically asked the 291 OPERATING BUDGET - BILL NO. 020455 - 4/19/04 commanders what are they doing about certain schools, are there any problems with these particular schools. There are certain areas that we have schools -- not necessarily school police, but we have the Philadelphia police officers go over on a daily basis, say for Lincoln, Frankford, and a lot of other schools, South Philadelphia High School, that, at dismissal time, we take a lot of our administrative people who work inside, who actually go out on the street during dismissal time or the time that they report to court The communication, the network that we have with the school police officers has to become a little better. Anything they ask the Philadelphia Police Department for, we give. Whether it is a form mapping or information or statistics, we try to give it to them on a daily basis. So, we work with them every day, we communicate with them, and we make sure that we patrol troubled schools. And I think I have already mentioned 292 OPERATING BUDGET - BILL NO. 020455 - 4/19/04 that at CompStat, those questions are brought up to every commander that comes up in front of us.

In fact, I think we made 60 Minutes last night starting problems with school safety, as many other cities are facing. At this time the Chair recognizes Councilman Nutter.

Good afternoon, Commissioner. COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: Good afternoon, Councilman.

Commissioner, let me just start with a couple of preliminary questions. With regard to Operation Safe Streets, at this point what is the estimate of the number of open-air drug markets in the City of Philadelphia? COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: We have approximately 154 Safe Street corners, and it fluctuates. It fluctuates based on what's going on each week. 293 OPERATING BUDGET - BILL NO. 020455 - 4/19/04 In addition to that, Deputy Commissioner Giorgio-Fox put something in place that's a little different, she has priority corners. And priority corners are corners where there has actually been a shooting or an incident that has happened out there outside. That priority corner, police officers not only stand there for a period of time, but they are there for approximately between hours and hours or hours a 13 day. 14 Also with the priority corners we 15 bring in the state patrol, parole officers, 16 other warrant officers to send a message that 17 if these things happen in a particular area, 18 that we will not tolerate it. 19 And it also sends a message to the 20 citizens that we are concerned about what is 21 happening in that particular community. 22 So right now we have, again, about 23 154 Safe Street corners -- but, again, it 24 fluctuates -- and approximately 24, 25 priority corners whose designations are by the 294 OPERATING BUDGET - BILL NO. 020455 - 4/19/04 commanding officer of that particular district.

And if a corner is designated as a Safe Streets corner, does that mean that it is what we have referred to in the past as an open-air drug market corner? COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: Well, when we came up with Safe Streets, Safe Streets corners that we originally went to were corners that had open-air drug markets and also had violence on those particular corners; it wasn't just a corner that sold drugs. And those corners, they were like car washes, where people actually line up to buy their drugs. So, I mean, there are still some corners probably that are out there selling drugs. But the open-air drug market, the way that it used to exist three or four years ago, we find doesn't exist anymore. But, drugs are moving indoors now.

When Deputy Commissioner Fox talked about redeployment strategies, and not just having the officers 295 OPERATING BUDGET - BILL NO. 020455 - 4/19/04 out at, what I recall the start was, 300 locations. COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: That's correct.

But now we are looking at a more strategic use of the officers. What does that mean in the context of either the number of officers out or any reductions in the cost of the overall program? COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: Well, what it does, at least in my opinion, it reduces overtime. But, again, Safe Streets wasn't an overtime-type thing. When we first started Safe Streets, what we were doing -- and we learned by some of our mistakes -- was putting officers on the corner for eight hours, the entire day. And they stood on those corners for eight hours a day. What Deputy Commissioner Fox has put in place, where it is not necessary for officers to be out there for eight hours. They might be out there for an hour, they 296 OPERATING BUDGET - BILL NO. 020455 - 4/19/04 might be out there for two hours. And there are a series of corners that they will patrol, that they will handle. No one knows what time they are going to be out there, no one knows exactly what day they are going to be out there. So it is hard to set up a drug corner Because normally what happens, at least it has happened in the past, the buyers would come to certain corners because they knew those corners were selling drugs. But not knowing what corners to go to, it eliminates a lot of the buyers going to these corners and a lot of the people standing out, even the sellers. So I think that strategy has become very, very effective. The other thing which she has initiated with the priority corners, by having officers out there hours a day, I think, is 21 really, really effective. 22 But, again, by putting those police 23 officers on certain corners, at certain times of the day -- most of our crime that we understand happens between 7:00 at night to 297 OPERATING BUDGET - BILL NO. 020455 - 4/19/04 3:00 in the morning. Before we would put an officer out there from, say, 8:00 to 4:00 and 4:00 to 12:00. Now we put them out there based on our intelligence, based on surveillances, based on information from the community. We put them out there when we feel as though the officers are actually needed, during those periods of time. And we survey that. And I want the commanders to go out and monitor these types of things, where corners are needed and where corners are not needed.

You made the statement that the program was not originally designed for overtime. That's not an exact replay of your statement, but I think I got pretty close. My recollection, though, is, when the program was announced, it was anticipated that over a five-year period, there was, actually, I thought, a schedule of additional overtime costs associated with the Safe Streets program. I think it was 35 million in 298 OPERATING BUDGET - BILL NO. 020455 - 4/19/04 the first year, in the second, possibly 25 in the third, 12 and a half and 12 and a half in Years four and five. Do you recall that? COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: Yes, sir, I do.

Weren't those 9 costs additional costs attributed to overtime? 10 COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: Well, they 11 were, but that was the cost of budgeting given 12 to us by city government. 13 And at the time that we first 14 started Safe Streets, I think it was something 15 new not only to the city, but new to the 16 Police Department. 17 And we anticipated that during the 18 period of time that we started Safe Streets, 19 that drugs were going to change. As we 20 changed, they changed. And what we found, and 21 predicted, that drugs will start going 22 indoors. 23 At the same time we also realized 24 that drugs are being sold at certain times, in 25 certain areas. And because of that, we 299 OPERATING BUDGET - BILL NO. 020455 - 4/19/04 changed some of the schedules for some of our units. Say, for example, the highway patrol unit changed their hours of operation. Our narcotics strike force changed their hours of operation. We are still attacking the same areas that we did before, but we are doing it on regular time instead of overtime. But when we started this program, it is like having an invasion force going in there. We didn't really want the citizens to be too much involved in this because we knew the drugs were not going to just stop. Drug dealers are just not going to turn over and say, well, you all are out here. And by strategizing, we have more community groups that are involved in it right now. We have Mothers in Charge, Men United for a Better Philadelphia, other people are in charge out there right now. A lot of our enforcement is still out there, but is out there on straight time, instead of doing it during overtime. 300 OPERATING BUDGET - BILL NO. 020455 - 4/19/04

Okay. I know the buzzer sounded. I have some other questions, but I will come back.

I am sorry. I didn't hear you.

I said, I think I heard the --

Yes, it did go off some time ago. We will come back to you. The Chair recognizes Councilman Rizzo.

Good afternoon, Commissioner. COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: Good afternoon, Councilman.

Commissioner, I have a few questions. I don't know if I will get to all of them in this round. I would like you to describe to me the rationale, the recent move, where the money came from, why we moved to the Navy Yard a police operation. COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: Well, if you are talking about the traffic unit, I think 301 OPERATING BUDGET - BILL NO. 020455 - 4/19/04 there was an agreement between the city government and the people from the stadium and the community that when these two stadiums were built, that we would have more enforcement down there. Also, in addition to that, we changed the operation of highway patrol. It was two-fold that they had, crime beat and they had the Expressway. Now those who work the Expressway are now, again, working within the traffic unit. But I think that arrangement was made by the city government and the community and the people who are involved in the stadium. The Police Department wasn't really involved in that decision.

Are we paying rent for this facility at the Navy Yard? COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: Public Property is paying rent there. The city is paying rent there.

How much? COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: I have no 302 OPERATING BUDGET - BILL NO. 020455 - 4/19/04 idea. I will find out for you.

Could you, please. The next issue, as you heard my conversation with the Managing Director, and you heard the Managing Director's observation, that the culture in this city of running red lights is out of control. And I know you promised to get back to me on possibly some stepped-up enforcement to red-light running by the uniformed police in the City of Philadelphia. What can you do to help with this issue of red-light running in the city, since cameras aren't here yet? COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: I think I am among the opinions that when it is observed by uniformed police officers, it should be enforced at all times. We are going to come up with a strategy to make sure that those things are enforced. A person running a red light is a danger to everyone. So, again, we are going 303 OPERATING BUDGET - BILL NO. 020455 - 4/19/04 to sit down and we are going to discuss it. But the rules have always been, if you observe a person violate the law, whether it is traffic law or laws of the penal code, you should enforce it.

I understand that. But I think that it has gotten so out of control. Again, the culture that, if you run a light in Philadelphia, the chance of getting a ticket is remote. I really think you need to do something quickly to remind the officers or have some type of a specific program, one of these things that you do occasionally to make something a point to the officers to enforce, that red-light running is something that really needs to get under control. And in that same breadth, it has been reported to me that the VASCAR officers that had in the past been assigned to deal with speeding, that many of those units are inoperable, the officers aren't trained any longer, and we have very little, very little 304 OPERATING BUDGET - BILL NO. 020455 - 4/19/04 speed enforcement with VASCAR throughout the Police Department. Since we are not allowed to use radar, the VASCAR is the only alternative. Could you report to me what we are doing presently with VASCAR in the city; how many units, what districts are they? 92nd District used to have VASCAR on the Drives, and I don't think that that presence is there the way it once was. COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: Okay. I will get that information. But one of the conversations that you and I had about the red lights, and what we did, we discussed it at every roll call in the City of Philadelphia. It was already discussed, or supposed to be discussed. And we will send out a teletyped message that says I will discuss it with my deputy commissioners and come up with some plan how we can enforce that. Again, as I said, I think it should always have been enforced. If a police officer observes a person violating traffic 305 OPERATING BUDGET - BILL NO. 020455 - 4/19/04 laws, he should enforce those things. We will make sure that supervisors and other people involved in our command structure make sure these things are done.

Commissioner, again, I am not the only one seeing this. You heard the Managing Director talk about his personal observations. Were you here today, when he brought this up? COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: Yes, sir, I was.

And VASCAR? COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: I will get more information about the VASCAR. I am not sure how many we have at this point. I am not sure if any of my deputies know at this point.

Tom Nestel, Deputy Police Commissioner. Councilman, the VASCAR is predominantly used on the Expressways. We also have districts. The 5th District has one, the 39th has one, I believe the 7th has 306 OPERATING BUDGET - BILL NO. 020455 - 4/19/04 one. I'm not aware of the one in the park not working now, but we will check on that.

14th had one, and I was told that there is no one there that knows even how to operate it.

Well, if the commanding officer doesn't have someone who can operate it, it is his responsibility to let us know, and we will see that they are trained.

I am not sure if VASCAR is on the Expressway, Commissioner. I don't know about that.

Well, I am, sir.

There is?

Yes.

The last issue, Commissioner. Our strategy to go after the 6 million bucks.

Go ahead. Finish.

The strategy to go after the close to $6 million from the state doesn't seem to be a very good one, when we hear today a statement that we are going to 307 OPERATING BUDGET - BILL NO. 020455 - 4/19/04 continue to do this work, even if we don't get the money. Your chance of getting that money is limited to none, I would think, based on that type of a strategy. COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: Well, the strategy the Police Department has, at least the strategy that I have, public safety is number one. And, you know, to patrol I-95 and the 76, I think that's a little above me. This has been going on for, probably, 40 years, when I used to patrol the Expressway. But, at the same time, we cannot eliminate having officers on I-76, 95, or Broad Street.

But it is not your responsibility. COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: Excuse me?

It is not your responsibility. COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: It is my responsibility to make sure the citizens of Philadelphia are safe. 308 OPERATING BUDGET - BILL NO. 020455 - 4/19/04

But it is a state -- again, I am not going to argue the point with you. My point is that, it is not a very good strategy, to let the people know you are going to continue to do it. Do you think you are going to get money out of Harrisburg with that kind of strategy? I don't. Thank you, Commissioner. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you. The Chair recognizes Councilman Clarke.

Thank you, Madam President. Good afternoon. COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: Good afternoon, Councilman.

First, Commissioner, I want to thank you for providing expert testimony on our gun legislation and assisting us in getting those bills out of committee. All of the bills are out of 309 OPERATING BUDGET - BILL NO. 020455 - 4/19/04 committee. We have forwarded all that information to Harrisburg. We will cross our fingers and await a response from the legislature in the Governor's office. And if we enter into some substantive discussion, I would ask you that you support us again and participate in that discussion. COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: I appreciate you even putting that legislation up. I think anything that's going to benefit helping us control guns will help the citizens of Philadelphia.

Right. Safe Streets was obviously an initiative that I was very happy to see. Some of the law enforcement -- and I won't call out any names -- I can recall sitting in this particular chambers early on in my career as a Councilperson asking questions about people standing on corners, selling drugs openly, knowingly, and we basically did nothing about it. And I was told by prior law 310 OPERATING BUDGET - BILL NO. 020455 - 4/19/04 enforcement officers that there was nothing we can do. And I got so upset that one of the local newspapers drew a little funny picture of me. " I was frustrated. And it was a pretty funny picture, too. It looked nothing like me. But I want to say that I am happy that, in fact, you have done something about that. You have gone out on the corners aggressively and stemmed the tide of open-air, arrogant drug dealing. But, saying all that, I want to say that I personally believe that it is time to go another level. And I know that you understand that the level of drug trade has changed, people have gone inside. People do things in a different way, people have gotten mobile. And I want to ask you about a couple of things that I have heard over the years as it related to sustaining the level of enforcement on these designated corners. 311 OPERATING BUDGET - BILL NO. 020455 - 4/19/04 One was a Chicago initiative that was actually more targeted towards gangs, because they had a serious gang problem in Chicago. And I don't know the technical term that was used for the legislation, but the word on the street was called the Gang Bang Law, that was passed by the Chicago legislature; that, essentially, the city, along with law enforcement, was able to designate certain corners. And those corners, by law, authorized the police to allow people to move off the corner, although they weren't noticeably doing anything. But because of that certain designation of that corner, it authorized the police where they would, essentially, come in, I want the corner. And during a certain time period, I think it was like 15 minutes, if they came back, if those people did not leave, they were authorized to arrest them. And I believe that this was challenged, and I believe ultimately they won 312 OPERATING BUDGET - BILL NO. 020455 - 4/19/04 the challenge. Additionally in some areas, actually in Chicago and in a couple of other municipalities, they have gone the surveillance route. Where there are known drug corners and crime corners, where they have decided to do surveillance with pole cameras and other types of surveillance that enhance their ability to enforce certain known crime areas and also diminishing the need to have manpower. Understanding our budget constraints, and even if we didn't have them, I am assuming that you would agree that at some point we can no longer have the physical presence of police officers out on corners. And I want to know, do you think that either of these initiatives is feasible in the City of Philadelphia, or if you have any other initiatives that can allow us to monitor activity on corners or in designated drug areas without having a physical presence of an actual police officer? 313 OPERATING BUDGET - BILL NO. 020455 - 4/19/04 COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: We already, you know, have cameras up at certain times. And I think this was mentioned last year about Chicago, and we did talk to Chicago. And one of the differences in Chicago and Philadelphia, Chicago had a lot of gangs that were easily identified, the Bloods, the Crips, that we don't have the same problem here. As a matter of fact, I talked to Chicago's chief not too long ago, and he was trying to find out what we were doing here about Safe Streets. Because some of the initiatives they have up there they didn't feel as though they were working.

I think the main thing, at least in my opinion, by being involved in this for a period of time, traditional policing is not working, and just traditional policing by itself will never change the quality of life. I think we need the community, the clergy, the elected officials, the businesspeople to get involved in this. 314 OPERATING BUDGET - BILL NO. 020455 - 4/19/04 We can constantly go out there and make all of the arrests that we want to make. But, at the same time, the drugs go where is the least enforcement. There are certain times with Safe Streets that we pulled away of certain corners, and the drug dealers came back. Some corners where they came back, the community came out to say, we are not going to tolerate it, and they left. Other corners who were out there, that felt as though they can go out there and nobody says anything, they stayed. There is a reason why they sell drugs on certain corners and drugs not on other corners. I think both of the initiatives that you mentioned would be a benefit to us, if legally we could do it. My problem originally, before, is that we are not going to break the law to enforce the law. And I know it is nothing that you have asked us to do. But to take the kids from one 315 OPERATING BUDGET - BILL NO. 020455 - 4/19/04 corner, who are not doing anything, and put them on another corner, there has to be jobs and training, there has to be other things that are going to have to get involved in this to be able to change their culture. What we are finding with Safe Streets, drugs are going indoors. And by going indoors, the community has been very supportive of us, giving us information about where the drugs are going. Unfortunately, as long as you have a buyer, you are going to have a seller. And, you know, we let this go too long. It took us 25, 30 years to get into the condition we are in today. It is going to be hard to get out in one or two years. But any initiative that I think will benefit the quality of life is a good initiative. And I will again talk to Chicago. We do surveillance, we do have pole cameras up there. A lot of things that we have to do have to be legally responsible. When we go to court right now, we have to make sure that we do everything by the book. 316 OPERATING BUDGET - BILL NO. 020455 - 4/19/04 Because if we don't, they are going to throw those particular cases out. We have had cameras up there at polls where they have actually shot them down. But, at the same time, there are things we are doing differently because the drugs dealers are now doing things differently here in the City of Philadelphia. But I will communicate with Chicago and find out where the law stands. But, from my information, it was easier for them to do it because of the gangs that they had there. We really don't have the types of gangs they have in Chicago. We have some drug gangs, but they are not as identifiable as the Crips or the Bloods or some of the other disciples as they are in Chicago.

I agree with you, Commissioner, to the degree that we don't have gangs as notorious as the Bloods and Crips. But I do know, and I am sure you know, that there is a resurgence of gang activities that is centered around drugs. And 317 OPERATING BUDGET - BILL NO. 020455 - 4/19/04 people are starting to identify themselves by name in some of these neighborhoods. So while we are not where they are at this point, I think that we need to get ahead of the curve on this one and be as aggressive as possible. I personally am a person representing a district that has a lot of the social problems that subsequently create the law enforcement issues. As I talked about earlier in the hearing last week, about spending more money on the front side, as opposed to on the back side with the prison system and the law enforcement and the judicial system. But the reality is that I am to the point where I am as frustrated as I was when the prior Commissioner said he couldn't do anything about people standing on the corners. I am getting to the level where I am extremely frustrated at the level of homicides and the continued crime. And I think it may be now to talk about another strategy as it relates to going the next level. 318 OPERATING BUDGET - BILL NO. 020455 - 4/19/04 Recently we have this phenomena, and I am calling it that now, of putting individuals who solicit prostitutes in the newspaper. And maybe we need to start putting the pictures of people who are purchasing drugs, be it a nickel bag or a dime bag or crack, or whatever, you know, in the newspapers, since the solicitation issue has gotten such notoriety. And maybe we need to go that level with the other types of illegal activities. COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: That was recommended by the Daily News a couple of weeks ago. What we do do -- at one time 30 percent of the people that bought our drugs came from outside the City of Philadelphia. And what we were doing was letting the township know who these people were, who was arrested, what did they buy, and then they were putting their names into the news media. If there is anything that I think will benefit the citizens of Philadelphia, I 319 OPERATING BUDGET - BILL NO. 020455 - 4/19/04 am very open-minded and I am willing to do.

Would you support an initiative to have individuals' pictures and names placed in the local media? COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: I have no 7 problem with that.

Okay. Thank you.

Wouldn't they have to be convicted?

I asked that question about the individuals who were arrested for solicitation. And those individuals were not convicted, they were arrested, and their pictures are in the paper. So if you can do it for the Johns, I think we can do it for the drug purchasers.

I think we ought to get a legal opinion on that, I really do.

That would have to be a large newspaper.

Very large newspaper. 320 OPERATING BUDGET - BILL NO. 020455 - 4/19/04

Are you finished, Councilman? The Chair recognizes Councilman Kelly.

Yes. Good afternoon, Commissioner. COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: Good afternoon.

First of all, I want to thank you very much for the assistance and the help that you have been giving me to make Roosevelt Boulevard a much safer road. I know that's going to take place. Specifically two areas, and two intersections, were actually probably unsafest roads in the country, and that's at Roosevelt Boulevard and Grant and Roosevelt Boulevard and Red Lion Roads. I want to thank you for your assistance in that. I know it is going to be much safer, probably, within the next few months. With that, I just would like to ask you a question. And probably it has been 321 OPERATING BUDGET - BILL NO. 020455 - 4/19/04 asked many times. And that is, do you currently have police officers assigned to do clerical duties in your districts? COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: Yes, sir, we do.

And, if so, do you have any plans on removing those police officers and putting them on the streets and replacing them with civilians who could probably do just as an effective job for probably less cost? COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: Well --

I know it's been something that's been talked -- well, been asked from you probably for many years, I know. COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: There are a lot of things that probably have been discussed for a number of years here in City Council, that being one. I think for the last 25, 30 times we went to the contract, we have went to arbitration, that's one of the things that we have asked for at arbitration, that we have 322 OPERATING BUDGET - BILL NO. 020455 - 4/19/04 civilians replace some of the police officers that we have. We have not been successful with that. A lot of these are controlled by the unions, of which we really have no control. And that's one of the things with the PICA report. It says LA has percent 9 civilians. We have less than 9 percent. 10 We would like to do that. But, as I 11 said, we are under a mandate by our labor 12 unions that we just can't do certain things. 13 So that's one of the things we will 14 probably bring up again at arbitration, and 15 see if we can bring in more civilians, put 16 more police officers on the street. 17 But what we are doing right now, 18 because of the school situation, at night or 19 during dismissal time, we are putting them out 20 on the streets, and in the mornings we are 21 putting them out on the streets. 22 I have asked every commander to look 23 into eliminating as many administrative jobs 24 as we possibly can to put people on the 25 street. 323 OPERATING BUDGET - BILL NO. 020455 - 4/19/04 In my own staff, I went from seven down to four. I know some of the other deputies have lost their staff and put more people out on the street.

Compared to other cities, how does Philadelphia compare to other cities like Boston or New York? COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: I'm not sure. Compared to the PICA report and the ones we did look at, we probably have the least civilians than anyone else. Ours is 11 percent, LA's is 25 percent. I am not sure whether Deputy Commissioner Nestel has any more information.

Councilman, we did look at six cities. Of the six, we had the lowest percentage of civilians. In the report it talked about the percentage of officers in Los Angeles who were on the street. But, as the Commissioner stated, they have percent. They have over 23 3,000 civilians; 25 percent of their 24 department is civilians. So, therefore, they 25 are able to put those additional people on the 324 OPERATING BUDGET - BILL NO. 020455 - 4/19/04 street. Unfortunately, only 11 percent of ours is. We have tried on numerous occasions in the Act 111 arbitration. In 1992 we were successful in getting 179 positions. However, since then, we have not achieved one single position to turn over.

Okay. In the last few years. I would like to ask you another question concerning police facilities. During the Capital Budget testimony, I asked why there was no money for the upgrading of district police facilities, and I was told that there was none requested. Is that true?

It is true to a degree. We had to prioritize our needs. And when we prioritized those needs, we did it with the real emergency things that had to be done; such as, the roof in the Police Administration Building. It is leaking all over and it is causing damage. So that was our first priority. 325 OPERATING BUDGET - BILL NO. 020455 - 4/19/04 We had listed about priorities, or 20 items in priority listing. Because of knowing that there is just so many dollars available, we had to select which ones --

Do you have 7 anything held in escrow, if you might say 8 that, just for emergency use? 9 Because you have probably numerous 10 police districts that are over close to 50 11 years old. And I know of one of them up in 12 the 2nd and 15th Districts, which I visited on 13 occasion. 14 And I found out that many times 15 during a rain storm, there would be 5 or 6 16 inches of rain. And, in fact, the officers 17 there couldn't even use -- they would have to 18 use only the top shelves of their storage 19 cabinets because any time it rained, the water 20 would just get through each one of their lockers. And I am sure there are other police districts the same way. I have got a listing of them here. And a lot of them, they were built back in 1950, 1955, '54, going on. So 326 OPERATING BUDGET - BILL NO. 020455 - 4/19/04 it is close to 50 years old. And I could imagine that there is going to be some request made even on an emergency basis.

Councilman, for several years there was a lot of money put into those districts to bring them up to where they should be. What has happened, if some emergency occurs, either heating or roofing, we get together with the Capital Programs Office, we get together with the Managing Director's Office, and we work out some way to come up with that money to make those repairs.

Okay. Is my time up, Madam Chair?

It is.

Thank you.

Thank you The Chair recognizes Councilman Nutter.

Thank you, Madam President. Commissioner, is there a safety 327 OPERATING BUDGET - BILL NO. 020455 - 4/19/04 plan, if you will, for lack of a more formal term, for each of the police districts in the city? COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: You say a safety plan?

A safety plan, a safety strategy. Is there a plan developed by anyone or the respective captain in the district as to, you know, what their game plan is to improve the safety in that particular district? COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: There is. I mean, there is a plan. I mean, that's the whole purpose of the CompStat. The whole purpose of CompStat, it is a management tool. And when the captains come in front of us every 28 days, they have to give their plan. But as far as Safe Streets is concerned, as far as a lot of the other plans is concerned, tactical plans, they meet with Deputy Commissioner Patricia Giorgio-Fox every Tuesday to come up with a strategy and a the plan. 328 OPERATING BUDGET - BILL NO. 020455 - 4/19/04 But at CompStat, with the mapping and the things we have had, everything that's happened in those particular districts and those particular places they have to explain. The main thing we want to do is let them know they have to let us know what is their problem and what are they doing about their problem. When they come back the second time, we want to know what plan did they put in place to resolve that problem and what did they do to, you know, eliminate those types of problems. We have the mapping, we have daily reports go out every single day. But each captain is like a little commissioner himself. He can put in place things that he feels are going to benefit his particular community.

I don't know if you want to put that on the record. COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: No, I don't. Once I used that, I changed my mind.

We will ask if the record can be stricken with regard to that 329 OPERATING BUDGET - BILL NO. 020455 - 4/19/04 remark. That will cause you more problems than you know. Let me ask this question: Can you provide to the Chair an analysis of Part and Part crimes over the last two fiscal years, complete years, and the first half of this fiscal year, by police district so we would be able to see by district, by crime, what the trend has been over the last two and a half years? COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: Yes, I can.

Okay. And is there a criminologist on the police staff? COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: No, sir.

There is not? COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: There is not.

Okay. Do you think that would be a good position to have in the Police Department? COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: Well, the problem is, one of the things that we have been doing, because of working with the federal government, and, you know, this whole 330 OPERATING BUDGET - BILL NO. 020455 - 4/19/04 cooperation we have with law enforcement, we have asked for analysts, and we use some of their analysts. I think we put X amount of money into a place. But I think that certain people in our department have a rapport with people from Temple who are criminologists, University of Pennsylvania who are criminologists. So we have people that we can communicate and do talk to and have meetings with that give us information, but we don't have any person on board ourselves. But we have contacts that we talk to.

All right. And then, I mean, obviously it is good that you are reaching out to try to get that kind of resource on -- I don't know how often you are in touch with those people. And, obviously, we have our budgetary problems. But, I mean, it would seem to me that having a person on staff, who is there all the time, I mean, the same amount of hours that you and the command are there, to assist with that, just might be something that we 331 OPERATING BUDGET - BILL NO. 020455 - 4/19/04 would want to look at somewhere in the course of the next budget cycle or two. I know there has been a lot of discussion over the past couple of years, your testimony lays out many of the successes, of our anti-crime program. From your perspective -- and you started your testimony saying that it was not necessarily statistically driven -- but, how do we know that the program is working? How do we determine that? COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: Well, what I try to do is go out the streets myself, and I go to most of the community meetings that I am invited to, and I do look at our statistics. And there are crimes that we can control and there are crimes that we can't control. So, I guess, I try to judge it by based on the sentiment of the community and the calls I get from the City Council people and from other people whether these things are working or not working. When we came up with Operation Sunrise, our statistics were outstanding. The 332 OPERATING BUDGET - BILL NO. 020455 - 4/19/04 amount of money that we got, our arrests were up. And when I rode around for a period of time, I realized with all the statistics being up, we had not changed the quality of life at all. People couldn't come out, kids couldn't come out and play. And when you asked the average citizens about the crime statistics, they don't know. But they do know that I can come out, they do know my kids can come out and play. So I try to judge it based on the sentiments of the community. Last year by itself we confiscated approximately $120 million in drugs. So far this year, we have more guns, we have more drugs, we have served more search warrants than we have ever served. And, in addition to that, we get more calls from the community with information than we ever did in previous years. So I think the effort that we are doing and the effort that the community sees that we are doing has joined a strong 333 OPERATING BUDGET - BILL NO. 020455 - 4/19/04 partnership.

Madam Chair, if I could just finish the last part of this in this area. Commissioner, given what you have laid out and given many other discussions and concerns -- and you are certainly right that when there are problems, I know many of us in this chamber give you a call -- but in an effort to get a better sense of what's going on, would you see any value and would you participate in any opportunity for a third-party independent analysis of the program, how it is working, what has been accomplished over the last few years; away from what any of us within the government might think about it or what our own experience has been, but actually put it to the kind of peer-review evaluation that often takes place with relatively new programs? COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: I would have no problem with that at all.

Okay. I appreciate that. Thank you. 334 OPERATING BUDGET - BILL NO. 020455 - 4/19/04 Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you. Commissioner, just refresh my memory, if you will, with the forfeiture funds. Does the Police Department, I guess, get a portion of it, does the District Attorney's Office? How does that work? Is that up to the courts? And how is that money used? COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: With the District Attorney's Office, if we do a forfeiture with them, we get 60 percent, they get 40. But this is after their costs are involved. And I think that's close to something like $750,000, or somewhere in that area. So once they get the $750,000, then we start taking the different percentage. If it is a federal-type thing, we get sometimes 80 percent and they get 20 percent. It normally goes into the operational fund. I'm not sure exactly where it goes, most of the time. 335 OPERATING BUDGET - BILL NO. 020455 - 4/19/04

General Fund? COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: No; it goes into the Police Department's fund, I believe.

And how can that money be used?

Council President, the state forfeiture money, which is the money that is funneled through the District Attorney's Office, must be used for narcotics enforcement. We utilize that money. A lot of equipment has been purchased for our narcotics people. We also utilize that money to help defray some of the overtime costs for our chemical laboratory personnel and our firearms identification unit personnel. A portion of their overtime is definitely related to narcotics, so that we can use that. The federal forfeiture law must be used as a supplement to, and not a substitute for. So if it is something that would not normally be utilized, would not normally be within an Operating Budget, then we can utilize that money for that. 336 OPERATING BUDGET - BILL NO. 020455 - 4/19/04 If it is something that is or has been in the Operating Budget, we cannot utilize that money.

Thank you. The Chair recognizes Councilman Ramos.

Thank you, Madam Chair. Commissioner, I know that you have worked very hard since you have been our Commissioner to close down open-air drug corners, and I commend you for that. I don't envy you. I remember in the mid '80s I heard former Mayor Wilson Goode say something that I always remember, especially when I go through drive-through open-air drug markets. And he said, "As long as there is an appetite for drugs, we will always have a drug problem. " And it seems like it has been around, my whole life. As a young activist at the age of 337 OPERATING BUDGET - BILL NO. 020455 - 4/19/04 19, I started a campaign against heroin trafficking in my neighborhood. It caused my little activist office to be fire-bombed. And one night someone, we never found out who it was, put a dynamite stick inside of a pipe, and put a clock on it, and we were lucky to get out of it alive. So I have my own scars from the war against drugs. But I drove through an area, East Detectives, as you have stated over the years, this has been an area that has been very hard to eradicate the drug trafficking. I drove by there on Saturday, around 2 o'clock. And between 2nd, all the way up to Front Street, where we have the Sheppard school, there were a lot of write-ups about this elementary school being in the middle of this drug-trafficking area. And it was as bad as I have ever seen it. It was just new, younger faces, new kids out there, but they were doing their thing, opening all the way down that strip. And I know at some point on Saturday the police was out there trying to get them 338 OPERATING BUDGET - BILL NO. 020455 - 4/19/04 off the streets and trying to make arrests. But it seems as though that this scourge on our cities seems to be getting worse again. In your five-year plan, you explained that the department plans to shift people and funds from off-street to on-street activities. And, as a result, in your Fiscal Year '05, you will improve from your 87 percent of your uniformed police in on-street activities to 90 percent. This is an improvement, but still less than the national average reported by PICA to be at about 92 percent. Having given that, can you please describe your plan for implementing this shift, please? COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: Again, I'm not sure where PICA got their statistics at and what they consider to be on-street police officers. It is kind of making an evaluation and a comparison between city to city. What I have been trying to do is eliminate in some of our top command to put 339 OPERATING BUDGET - BILL NO. 020455 - 4/19/04 more people at the bottom. In the last year, we have eliminated close to 60 positions from corporal above. We have no intention at this point right now to make any major promotions as far as top-level command is concerned. We have eliminated deputy commissioner spots, we have eliminated chief inspector spots, we have eliminated captain spots. We have eliminated a lot of the different places. We have eliminated administrative overtime. There was two captains, in most of the districts we are down to one. There was three, four lieutenants to every district, we are down to three. We will eliminate a lot of the supervision. And I think, by doing that, we haven't eliminated the efficiency of going out there and enforcing the law, but at the same time we put more officers on the street. They are our first-responders, and we really have to support them. And we really have to put more people out there for their 340 OPERATING BUDGET - BILL NO. 020455 - 4/19/04 support. So I have asked every deputy commissioner in the department to come up with a strategy and to evaluate each of their different views as to how we can take more people and put them on the street and do certain things. But, at the same time, I know what we have done by putting more people in each division. Say, for example, in narcotics strike force, we now have a lot of bike officers out there.

Highway patrol we boosted up by 60 people in the last year or so. They are like the top of the unit, they can go any place at any time. We put more detectives out there to go out and investigate the crimes. As far as on-street workers, there are more people out there right now. And, as I said, it is just hard for me to compare what the other cities were doing based on the PICA report than what we are doing. They might talk about the different 911 responders. We have people out there who 341 OPERATING BUDGET - BILL NO. 020455 - 4/19/04 are 911 responders, in the strike force or the highway patrol. For priority calls, they will respond. Detectives are out there, they will respond. We have warrant units out there who will respond to these different things. So we have a lot of officers out there. I try to ride each division quite often, and I will ride out there tonight, to see the things that you are seeing. And I will make sure -- not so much to make sure, because I am sure that Deputy Commissioner Fox heard what you said today, and we will address that problem. When we first came up with Safe Streets, we had 300 corners, 100 of them was in each division. But no matter how many police we put out there, unless the community and everyone else get involved in this, the churches, the politicians -- not so much the politicians, the elected officials and the businesspeople, they have to get involved in this. So, again, everything that we can do to make a good quality of life out there we 342 OPERATING BUDGET - BILL NO. 020455 - 4/19/04 will do by being more proactive than we have ever been. For a long period of time I think that the Police Department has been, basically, reactive to crime. I think we have to become a lot more proactive and educate the children. No matter how many drugs come into the City of Philadelphia, we can educate them not to sell it or not use it. But the one thing that we did find out, most of those who sell drugs live in those neighborhoods. They don't come from outside the neighborhoods to set up drug corners; they live in those neighborhoods and live on those streets and sell those drugs on those streets. So the community really has to get involved in this.

I agree wholeheartedly with you. I have seen this fine Police Department barricade that neighborhood, and I have seen it keep police officers on those 343 OPERATING BUDGET - BILL NO. 020455 - 4/19/04 corners. But it sure looked the same as it did just a couple of years ago this past Saturday. Yes, there has to be more community involvement and more -- you know, I am not questioning what you do with intelligence gathering and undercover agents. But that, you know, I think that maybe we should take a look and see are we doing enough in our intelligence gathering and those areas that have big drug problems. How many police officers, Commissioner, in your -- you have police 15 districts; is that correct? 16 COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: Yes, sir. 17

And you have a 18 couple of outposts or details, right, the 19 Convention Center and South Street and some 20 other places. 21 How many police officers do you 22 calculate are doing clerical, administrative, 23 computer-intake type of work in your police districts? COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: Well, we 344 OPERATING BUDGET - BILL NO. 020455 - 4/19/04 never give out numbers. I am not sure of the percentage, but I don't think it is that high of a percentage. We have police officers who, you know, they are up at the academy, they are all over. So it is hard for me to predict. But what I will do is go back and make a report and personally give them to you or City Council.

Please provide it to the Chair. Because if you have 3 per police district, you are talking about 69 officers doing clerical-type or clerical-related type of work. Anyway, you will provide it to us, and we will see what that number is. COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: I will provide it to you.

Thank you.

Thank you. The Chair recognizes Councilman Clarke. This is the second go-around, I think. 345 OPERATING BUDGET - BILL NO. 020455 - 4/19/04

Thank you, Madam President. Commissioner, I am going to ask you a quick question. And I hate to reference other municipalities because I believe we have the best city in the country, the best police force in the country, the best municipal work force in the country, the best Council. But every now and then there are some things that you see in other municipalities that you may want to investigate. And a couple in particular. From time to time I tend to travel to New York and I travel to Baltimore, and I have always noticed that they have this category of employee called "public safety officers." I know in Baltimore they utilize them substantially when they have games near Camden Yards. And they, basically, direct traffic, providing law enforcement in that aspect but they don't carry guns. In New York they also use them in public safety as it relates to traffic 346 OPERATING BUDGET - BILL NO. 020455 - 4/19/04 monitoring and corners and things of that nature. And I have always wondered why we, in the City of Philadelphia, use police officers to do that? And I understand it may be certain issues related to the Charter. Earlier you responded to Councilman Kelly's issues about utilizing police power in certain portions of your department, you know, clerical and on-street. And I understand that, as a result of the arbitration awards and the union issues, it is sometimes difficult to get around deployment. But I am talking about another category of employee that will be a public safety officer that would do traffic safety, that would do things as police sanitation, that would do things that you probably, frankly speaking, the police officer is overtrained for, to help reduce the number of police officers doing this that are needed, but work that obviously could be done by some other officer. 347 OPERATING BUDGET - BILL NO. 020455 - 4/19/04 If somehow -- and this may actually require a Charter change -- a level of employee could be created to provide those services, is that something that you think could be helpful as you try and free up officers to do other types of much-needed enforcement? COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: I think it would be very helpful. And legally if we could do it by contract and by labor agreements, we would have no objection to it. I think that's something that we have been trying to do for a period of time. They would become civilian employees of the Police Department. But it has been pretty difficult at our arbitrations for those things to come in place. But, as I said, I don't think anybody, at least in my executive staff, would have any problems with that. There are times that we have made certain changes just to one or two people and have been taken to court or been challenged. And I can give you some examples about that. 348 OPERATING BUDGET - BILL NO. 020455 - 4/19/04 But, as I said, no, I think it would be very -- the more uniformed police officers that we can put on the street to enforce the law would be beneficial to us and to the citizens of Philadelphia.

So let me understand. With respect to the union issue, that jurisdiction and involvement of the unions pertain solely to the Police Department and the police officers per se; am I correct? COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: Yes, sir.

So anything outside of the Police Department, in an actual police officer, the police union really has no 17 jurisdiction over those individuals? COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: I'm not sure.

I am saying, if you created another category of individual -- because I know the Charter mandates certain departments, mandates certain Civil Service requirements. If there somehow was another category of employee who was not a police 349 OPERATING BUDGET - BILL NO. 020455 - 4/19/04 officer, but to some degree dealt with public safety issues, would they fall under the jurisdiction of -- COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: I will let the expert answer that question.

Councilman, the bargaining unit positions are identified by what officers do now. So if we are presently directing traffic, that has been identified as a bargaining unit position. And any attempt to replace a police officer with a civilian in that position must be either negotiated or come out as a ruling in the Act 111 arbitration acts.

Okay. So -- that did answer my question. So would the collective bargaining process supersede the Charter? If the Charter said one thing, then the collective bargaining position says another thing, who would have --

My guess is the Act 111 arbitration would supersede, but we would have to check that with the law department. 350 OPERATING BUDGET - BILL NO. 020455 - 4/19/04

The law department. Can you do that, please?

Sure.

All right.

Thank you. The Chair recognizes Councilman Rizzo.

Commissioner, tell me about the Police Department's long-term planning. Today we heard that most of our police stations are 50-plus, most of them. There are a few new ones in the mix. My observation is that we are going to see some downsizing in the city, going to see some possible city facilities close and maybe even become available for sale. Have you thought about, has the Fire Department thought about, has the Recreation Department thought about, has the Administration thought about, possibly, when some of the city land becomes available, if it does, that we create an environment where we 351 OPERATING BUDGET - BILL NO. 020455 - 4/19/04 have a police station, a firehouse, a mini City Hall, small rec facility, all on one parcel of land? I think that would be a very efficient reuse of land that would be become potentially available going forward, long term. So is there any long-term plan? I know the police district that I live in has been there for maybe 45, 50, 60 years, and I talked to some of the officers. And I think the reason we get a pass on the condition of some of these police stations, that not a lot of the average citizens visit a police station in their lifetime. It is not a place where -- hopefully. That's a good thing. And I talked to some of the police officers that tell me about the conditions of some of the police facilities, that they are absolutely disgraceful. And I know that when I stop at a police station, even if I don't go in, parking lots are dirty, trash strewn all over the place. Even a new building wouldn't 352 OPERATING BUDGET - BILL NO. 020455 - 4/19/04 necessarily correct that. But my point, I think we need a long-term plan in replacing some of these dilapidated, antiquated, dirty facilities. Because inside, they are beyond able to clean some of them, tiles broken and floors are bad. What about long term, for your successor, to some day have a plan to build some new police stations and maybe use the concept that I described? COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: Well, you know, that's really above me. And, you know, if I had the ability, I would build all new police stations, start with police headquarters, I mean, if I had to have a building to do that. And if we had the money and the fiscal things to do that, that would be workable. But I don't even think that even when they come to the Planning Commission, that they ever involve the Police Commissioner of the Fire Department to make these particular plans. But, as I said, I would like to see 353 OPERATING BUDGET - BILL NO. 020455 - 4/19/04 the conditions of Police and Fire to be the very best. I mean, they are the only occupation that there is really no guarantee, once they leave their homes, there is no guarantee they will be coming home. So I think if we can make the working conditions as best we possibly can, I am totally in agreement with that.

Firehouses are different, I think, entirely different. People live there, pretty much they are there. Firehouses are relatively in good shape. For some reason the police stations, a totally different environment, in my opinion. COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: Like you said, we have different visitors that come there, also.

I am getting some heckling from the audience about the conditions of the firehouses. At least I believe the firehouses, I am going to have to double-check that fact. 354 OPERATING BUDGET - BILL NO. 020455 - 4/19/04 But after you just fixed the roof of the Police Administration Building, I wouldn't sell it or move. But, really, I think it is your, or any Commissioner's, responsibility, if you have facilities that need to be replaced or upgraded, to speak up. Isn't that part of the process, to suggest new facilities? COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: I believe our Administration has spoke up. And I have been on the department now going on 40 years. And if I can recall, every Police Commissioner prior to me has also spoke up and spoke out against that. But we just don't have total control of when we can build and not build a building. So when I say it is beyond me, there are so many other people that are involved in that. But I agree with you completely. I am not going against you. I agree with you totally that we should have the best working conditions possible.

The concept of 355 OPERATING BUDGET - BILL NO. 020455 - 4/19/04 possibly putting some of this stuff together? COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: Well, I would really have to evaluate that and look into that. At least at this point I don't want to make any real judgments. I am note sure whether the Fire Department, Police Department, and any others -- with all this terrorism right now, I think you have to be very, very careful of what we do and how we do things.

Thank you, Madam Chair.

The Chair recognizes Councilman Kelly.

Right. Thank you, Madam Chair. I just want to follow up with what Councilman Clarke was referring to, about the police duties and whatnot for this new unit of his. It wasn't too long ago, I believe it was maybe over ten years now, but the enforcement of traffic tickets, or parking tickets, was transferred to the Parking 356 OPERATING BUDGET - BILL NO. 020455 - 4/19/04 Authority. And that had to do with state legislation, I believe. It was approved. And that was, I mean, a police officer at that time had the duty to write parking tickets. Now, of course, that was taken from him and given to the Parking Authority. And I just wanted to know, did that have union approval, was that negotiated, or was that just the state legislature approving that? And, if so, I would like to know why a unit for traffic control or something like that would be taken away, again, from the Police Department, why that would need a Charter change, or whatever? COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: I'm not sure. I mean, I'm not familiar with it. And I don't think anybody else here is familiar with it. I mean, we still have the ability to write parking tickets, if we want to write them. It doesn't say we can't write them.

Well, you also have the ability, of course, to control 357 OPERATING BUDGET - BILL NO. 020455 - 4/19/04 traffic at any time, too. Just because this new unit that Councilman Clarke was referring to, that duty would be, of course, just -- that's all they do, would be controlling traffic in certain intersections at certain times. What I am saying is that, this could be something we could look at. Because in certain events -- I am talking about special events, which Councilman Nutter was referring to earlier today -- that maybe this could bring down the cost of running those events, the city's costs. COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: The Police Department is not against that.

I just wanted to know what had to be done to do something like that. COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: I'm not sure. But what I will do is, we will investigate it and find out.

Because I know I am going back a few years. I know the Parking Authority received that permission, you might 358 OPERATING BUDGET - BILL NO. 020455 - 4/19/04 say, or whatever, from the state. And, again, I don't know if this is something that would have to be arbitrated through the state or through the union. I don't know. COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: I will look into that.

It is something to look into. Because I think that there is a considerable cost savings involved here, there really is, with having something with controlling traffic and only that, and giving your police officers more time to do really the tough jobs, you might say, in fighting crime. COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: Yes.

So I would look into that, if you could. COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: We will.

And you mentioned something else, and you just referred to it, the terrorism. Of course this is the day and age of 359 OPERATING BUDGET - BILL NO. 020455 - 4/19/04 terrorism. I just wanted to know if you have a counter-terrorism unit and if it is headquartered here or where? COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: We have, as far as my opinion is concerned, and some of other people's opinions -- I just came from Florida last week, two- or three-day terrorist conference. I think Philadelphia has probably, second to New York, one of the best terrorist units in the entire country, by the fact we had a deputy commissioner up until last week in charge of terrorism. We formed a whole terrorist unit. And I am not going to give you the number of people, but it is a considerable amount of people. In addition to that, we used to have one person with the task force, the FBI, the terrorist thing, we now have over six. We are in constant communications with them on -- not so much on a daily basis, but on a regional basis.

How does that 360 OPERATING BUDGET - BILL NO. 020455 - 4/19/04 interact with the police aviation unit? Because I am going back. And a few months ago, I think it was recently, that we had an inebriated pilot running around our city in an airplane. And, thank God, nothing seriously happened. But I think there was some criticism over the Police response. That airplane could have done considerable damage to any facility, whether it be a cultural facility that we have in this city or it could have been a utility or anything. And I just wanted to know how you are responding to that in the future, because that's something we would have to look at in the future. COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: I didn't hear the criticism about our department. I know we forced him to land.

I think the criticism was in the response; in other words, it took them so long to get the Police helicopters up there, or whatever. COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: I have to 361 OPERATING BUDGET - BILL NO. 020455 - 4/19/04 look into that. I haven't heard any of the criticism that it took us too long to get up there. I think there is -- COMMISSIONER KELLY: Well, I don't know. It may not be the Police Department's fault, I am not saying that. It could be the control tower didn't relay that information to the Police Department. But what I want to know is, if there is an active liaison between the aviation people and the Police Department now to prevent such instances from occurring again, at least have a better response time? COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: There is a liaison, and I will look into that particular incident. Some of the things you are saying today, I haven't heard before. But we have two helicopters here. I know they are in constant communications. We talk to other people in law enforcement. So, I mean, we have to work together, and I think we have been. But we can always enhance that.

Yes. Because we 362 OPERATING BUDGET - BILL NO. 020455 - 4/19/04 have to really consider our historical sites that we have in this city, and we have to do everything to protect them. COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: Yes, sir.

Thank you. Thank you, Madam Chair.

The Chair recognizes Councilman Nutter.

Thank you, Madam President. I am going to be uncharacteristically quick. Commissioner, there was a discussion earlier about traffic safety, red-light running. And I know you put out there generally or specifically that officers, if they observed that kind of activity, should write the appropriate violation. At the same time, could you state, at least for the record, to the best of your knowledge, in the crosswalk between a pedestrian and a motor vehicle, who has the right-of-way? COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: Well, I believe the pedestrian has the right-of-way. 363 OPERATING BUDGET - BILL NO. 020455 - 4/19/04

Do you know whether the Police Department on any kind of regular basis writes tickets for motorists who do not give the pedestrian the right-of-way when they are supposed to have it, either in a signalized intersection or a designated crosswalk area? COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: I don't have any specific information whether they do or they don't. I am sure some do and some don't. But what I will -- obviously, that is a concern of yours -- do is make sure that we look into that, and that's one of the things that we really have to enforce.

I would greatly appreciate it. You were here, I think, earlier for the discussion about the Greek Picnic. Would you have any estimations on what size of force it would take to spend a million dollars in overtime for that event? COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: I think what happened -- and I heard the discussion -- that the Greek Picnic is not just a one-day event. 364 OPERATING BUDGET - BILL NO. 020455 - 4/19/04 The Greek Picnic is something that starts off on a Friday night, and goes, basically, all night Friday night, and then they are out in the park on Saturday, and then that night they are back on South Street, or they are on South Street and then around 2:00 or 3 o'clock in the morning, after they clear South Street, they are on Broad Street, and then back again on Sunday. And I think, based on prior history, what happens to some of the citizens of Philadelphia, with some of the things that were happening to our women and some of the problems we had on South Street, that we prepared for that to make sure that there is nothing happening to anybody. So it is not just -- we don't consider it to be an event. It is something that -- the park has been going down in the last two or three years. And very seldom -- and I have been involved in it in the last four or five years. All my involvement normally would have been starting on South Street. I very seldom went 365 OPERATING BUDGET - BILL NO. 020455 - 4/19/04 out to the park. I don't see the amount of people on South Street or on Broad Street diminishing. The park is diminishing, but the amount of people that are coming to South Street or Broad Street and staying on South Street, the numbers are, basically, the same. And some of the same problems we had down there are, basically, the same.

But would you agree, Commissioner, that at that point, once you enter the South Street, Broad Street portion, isn't the Greek Picnic over at that point? COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: We don't consider the Greek Picnic to be just an event. The Greek Picnic was something just in the park. The Greek Picnic brings other people into the city. The amount of people that's on South Street those nights and the amount of people on Broad Street, and I am talking about from maybe Washington Avenue, all the way up to Hunting Park, I have never seen those amount 366 OPERATING BUDGET - BILL NO. 020455 - 4/19/04 of crowds. And there are certain incidents that happen during that period of time that we have to have that amount of police officers out there to defend anything from going over.

I understand. I would be interested in the department's information with regard to major events that take place in the city, and what the respective overtime costs are associated with those events. Let me move on. Commissioner, would you say that there is the same, more, or less drug sales or drug use in Philadelphia over the past few years? COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: I'm not sure. I know last year we confiscated close to $120 million worth of drugs. And so far this year, in the first three months, we have confiscated $6 million in drugs. What I am finding is that there is more people, the drugs are going indoors, and they are selling the largest amount of drugs indoors, along with the weapons. 367 OPERATING BUDGET - BILL NO. 020455 - 4/19/04 It is hard for me to make that -- I know as of last week we still have the purest heroin in the nation still in Philadelphia. I believe, based on our arrest record, also, we are locking up more sellers and buyers than we did in previous years. And we are locking up less people who is coming from outside the city buying our drugs. At one time it was close to 30 percent. I think we are down to about or percent of the people coming from outside the city. But it is really hard to make that evaluation, whether, you know, there are less drugs or more drugs. There are too many drugs that are coming into the City of Philadelphia.

I have two last questions, and I will be done.

Might as well get them over, because we do have groups that have been waiting.

I understand. Commissioner what's your opinion as 368 OPERATING BUDGET - BILL NO. 020455 - 4/19/04 a law enforcement tool with regard to targeted video surveillance outdoors? COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: I think it plays a very important part in law enforcement. I'm not sure -- I mean, it normally sometimes will help us in apprehension. I am not sure how much it is going to be in prevention. If people know that the cameras are out there -- I mean, they know there are cameras in banks, but they still rob them. It is hard to see whether it helps or not helps. Because, again, it helps in the apprehension, but I am not sure how much it is going to do for prevention.

Well, I mean, are bank robberies up or down or about the same? If you know that there is active surveillance going on, I mean, you don't think that might discourage some people from -- COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: I am sorry. What I was trying to say is, if they know that 369 OPERATING BUDGET - BILL NO. 020455 - 4/19/04 the surveillance are out there, then it probably would have to be a help, it should be a help. But in certain people's minds, especially certain criminals, is appears as though they don't feel that they are going to be caught anyhow. Our bank robberies are up.

Well, I mean, the greatest law enforcement tools cannot account for stupidity, Commissioner. And, I mean, some of the criminals are just stupid, they do dumb things. Of course the banks have video surveillance. And, you know, most of them think that they are so smart they are not going to get caught, and you probably catch a significant portion of them. But, you know, some people actually do try to avoid observation. So, I mean, I just wondered what your perspective was on its usefulness as a tool. And have we ever looked at that in any serious way of adding to the tools or weapons that we have to fight crime in the streets? 370 OPERATING BUDGET - BILL NO. 020455 - 4/19/04 COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: I know Wilmington did it. Originally when they did it, the crime went down. I think they still have it. And I talked to the people down there. Once they became familiar with what was out there, the crime just went right back up. My opinion, you have to look into it a little more. Anything that's going to help the citizens of Philadelphia, it has to be positive. But I'm not sure whether that would deter certain people from committing certain crimes. But, again, it could help.

Last question. By the information that you shared with us on the performance reports, and certainly from newspaper accounts, the indications seem to be that homicides are up or will be up this year versus last year. And I think they were up last year versus the previous year. There is a note attached to the -- what do you call this -- Table of Service Measures down the bottom. It says, "Number of 371 OPERATING BUDGET - BILL NO. 020455 - 4/19/04 homicides. National trends for FY '04 illustrate homicides are rising in the nation's larger cities." I guess a two-part question. One, do we know why? And, second, even if homicides happen to be going up in some other cities, why would there be an automatic corollary that they would be going up here? COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: Well, when I meet with the Mayor and the city chiefs, no 12 one really knows the reason. Our homicides, we go by a ten-year average. And we are below the ten-year average. Say, for example, in 1990 we had 500 homicides. One homicide is too many. As of today, we are seven homicides over than we were this time last year. But if they make these comparisons to 2002, we had 288 homicides, which is the lowest that we had been in 18 years. We led the entire nature on reduction of homicides. But if you compare that to 2002, 2001, and 2000 -- 372 OPERATING BUDGET - BILL NO. 020455 - 4/19/04

I'm sorry, Commissioner. What did you say that number was? COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: In 2002, we had 288, I believe. 2003, we had 348. But if you go with the ten-year average, we were still below our ten-year average. Because it says up until 1998 we averaged over 400 homicides a year.

I know that. They have clearly been going down. Just, again for the record, your information indicates for FY '01, the actual was 299; FY '02, the actual was 318; FY '03, the actual was 308; and you are projecting for FY '04 316. COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: I am going to have to look at these numbers. I don't think these numbers are exactly -- they are going by fiscal years, instead of calendar year.

I understand. I mean, I just have what I have here. But generally I thought you guys counted by the calendar year. 373 OPERATING BUDGET - BILL NO. 020455 - 4/19/04 COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: We do, that's correct.

All right. So they are going to be off. Okay. Anything else you want to tell us about homicides? COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: No. 9 The only thing I noticed, that probably over the top cities in the entire 11 nation, homicides are up. 12 Last year, out of the 348 homicides we had, almost 140 were indoors. I don't know the reason. And I don't think anybody else knows the reason why the shootings are happening. If I did know the reason, we had five law enforcement officers ourselves that have been shot this year. It is a difficult type thing. But I think it has more that just to do with law enforcement. It might have something to do with the economy. I don't know what the reason is or what the answer is. But we are trying to do is put 374 OPERATING BUDGET - BILL NO. 020455 - 4/19/04 everything in place that we can possibly do to prevent the violence here in the City of Philadelphia, whether it is a child or an adult. But, again, as of this morning we are seven above we were at this time last year. But that's making a comparison where we were at 2002, where we were at the lowest. Hopefully by some of the initiatives that we put in place, that we will reduce that during this calendar year.

Okay. Thank you. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you. The Chair recognizes Councilwoman Miller.