And if you based your assumptions and made your decisions on his analysis of what the level of the wage tax was five years ago and took an action based on it, then I can only assume that at some point in time, we should be able to measure the impact of these cuts hopefully going in the other direction. And I just wonder if anybody's taken a look at it.
You're absolutely right. I mean, you know, we do know for a fact that wage increases -- excuse me, that tax increases chase jobs out of the City. We know that through the Inman analysis and through the analyses of others, and we will look in to see the other side of that equation.
Okay, all right, thank you. Thank you, Mr. President. I'm done.
The Chair recognizes SELECT COMMITTEE FISCAL STABILITY & INTERGOVT'L COOPERATION 110 Fiscal Stability & Intergovernmental Cooperation Councilwoman Clark on that point?
And then Councilwoman Tasco, and then Councilman Kenney.
Just to follow up on Councilman Nutter's theory, if you start with the notion that high taxes contribute to an outflow of jobs, unless that's just a feel-good, you ought to be able to measure how the reversal of jobs is stemmed by reducing that tax. If the first premise was correct -- that is, people are leaving because the taxes are high -- then if taxes are reduced, people ought not only stop leaving, but some of them ought to start coming in, and it ought to be measurable. Or it might just well be that we are drawing a conclusion based on a faulty premise. People might be leaving for reasons other than taxes. But I think to the degree that your premise counts on high taxes adding to the outflow, you have to be able to measure it the other way around.
Councilwoman, first I'd like SELECT COMMITTEE FISCAL STABILITY & INTERGOVT'L COOPERATION 111 Fiscal Stability & Intergovernmental Cooperation to say that it took Philadelphia approximately 40 years to get to the tax position we were in in 1992. We all know that in the preceding years 5 prior to the Mayor's inauguration and the 6 installation of Council President Street, City 7 taxes have been increased 19 separate times in 8 those 11 years. 9 The incremental multi-year tax 10 reduction program that we've pursued in the last 11 three years -- I think it's a little premature at this juncture to ask that incremental tax reduction program to unravel 40 years of very, very high taxation.
But I don't ask you to unravel it; I ask you to show the correlation, if any, if any, to a stemming of the outflow, which is totally different from a hockey stick in the opposite direction because you got to start losing before you can start gaining.
No, I appreciate the point. The point I was trying to make, Councilwoman, is that we've only had those first three modest rounds of tax cuts, and that it would probably be overly optimistic for us to hope that SELECT COMMITTEE FISCAL STABILITY & INTERGOVT'L COOPERATION 112 Fiscal Stability & Intergovernmental Cooperation those three modest rounds of tax cuts, even though they're large in terms of dollars for what we can afford, it would be overly optimistic of us to assume that we could stem the loss of jobs and population from Philadelphia.
What is a reasonable period? Three years is too short, eleven years is too long. What is a reasonable period to evaluate the effectiveness of the new direction?
Unfortunately, I mean, I'm not an economist, I don't what the reasonable period is. I mean, I can certainly find out that answer for you. I mean, the good news is that it appears that we've stemmed that massive job hemorrhaging that occurred in the early years of the Administration.
Because if that's so, show us that. Do you see what I'm saying? If you have stemmed that massive SELECT COMMITTEE FISCAL STABILITY & INTERGOVT'L COOPERATION 113 Fiscal Stability & Intergovernmental Cooperation outflow, that's measurable. And if it's not measurable, then that's just a feel-good.
If you'll bear with me, I'm looking for -- there's a chart in the introduction on page Roman numeral XXIV, which shows -- and it's just a reprint of a Bureau of Labor statistics chart that shows job gains and losses, its net change over the prior months. 10 But I think that gives you an excellent 11 shot of what we've been able to accomplish in this 12 City.
Okay, I'm on the right page, now show me again the text on which you rely.
It's called "City of Philadelphia Monthly Job Losses and Gains." If you look --
I'm on the right SELECT COMMITTEE FISCAL STABILITY & INTERGOVT'L COOPERATION 114 Fiscal Stability & Intergovernmental Cooperation page.
If you look at that chart, you'll notice that beginning in 1988, approximately, our job losses start to drop precipitously; and at the nadir, in 1991, the City was losing approximately 2700 jobs per month, 2700 jobs lost per month. Now, you'll see that it starts to climb up, and some people might argue that it has something to do with the City's fiscal recovery, that it has something to do with the resurgence of the national economy. And then if you look in 1995, you begin to see another lull. And then in January 1, 1995, -- '96, excuse me, Council and the Administration adopted the first cuts in the City's wage tax in four decades and the cuts in the BPT and the redefinition for the double-weighting of the business privilege tax. So I would argue that based on this chart, that things look somewhat more optimistic than they did in those early years of the Administration.
Well, I think the SELECT COMMITTEE FISCAL STABILITY & INTERGOVT'L COOPERATION 115 Fiscal Stability & Intergovernmental Cooperation chart gets us started in the right direction. Sometimes we say things that make us feel good, but we need to be able to show it in hard empirical data. Because if you can't prove it, then we start making wild assumptions.
Right. You raise an interesting issue, as did Councilman Nutter, and we will talk to economists and find out what would be a reasonable time frame where we would see if we can measure some appreciable impact from the tax reduction program.
(Inaudible, off mike) . . . there are local conditions that impacted or caused a negative or positive that were national and other policy decisions that were made that could impact on that too, because we have to answer to our constituents why we are cutting the wage tax when we don't have enough money to fund the schools or we don't have enough money to trim trees or we don't have enough money to do this in the neighborhood while we're doing the taxes. So it helps our constituents to SELECT COMMITTEE FISCAL STABILITY & INTERGOVT'L COOPERATION 116 Fiscal Stability & Intergovernmental Cooperation understand how all of this fits into the impact on Philadelphia. My question is about the funding that we will receive from the federal government to undertake the welfare-to-work programs. Where does it appear in the budget? Is it under funding from the government? How much is it, and when do we expect it? And are there any restrictions, and who's going to run the program?
I believe you'll find it on in the plan. I also know that the magnitude of the dollars is, I've heard, between 40 and $50 million for welfare-to-work. And it's my understanding that the Administration will be offering a briefing for Council in the coming weeks about our plans for welfare-to-work, and we'll be looking for input from Councilmembers at that time.
Are the dollars in this book here? Where do you show the dollars?
Where do they show up? SELECT COMMITTEE FISCAL STABILITY & INTERGOVT'L COOPERATION 117 Fiscal Stability & Intergovernmental Cooperation
Because the dollars are being spent by a variety of agencies, there's about $40 million over two years in welfare-to- work money. Some of that money will go directly to the Private Industry Council for Jobs, some of it will be run through -- since it's also grants money, but we don't yet know because we haven't finalized our plan and gotten your input. The provision that's in the grants fund for other grants, which is the unspecified place we hold grant fund appropriations until we know what we're going to spend them for, it would be in that line, but it's not identified separately until there's a specific spending plan. So I think after we've had the meeting with Council and after the full plan is developed, then we would come back for the spending that's going to happen within the City's budget transfer grant fund appropriations for that.
Thank you, Mr. SELECT COMMITTEE FISCAL STABILITY & INTERGOVT'L COOPERATION 118 Fiscal Stability & Intergovernmental Cooperation President. Gentlemen, has it ever been determined what the total costs were that were associated with the blizzard of -- what was it, '96? Did we ever cull all that information together and determine what our total cost was for that catastrophic, hopefully one-time, occurrence in our City's history?
I know I saw him driving a front-loader at 2 o'clock in the morning on 11th Street. (Deputy Managing Director Marks comes forward.)
I'm hardly an expert, Councilman. Mr. President, I'm Joe Marks, First Deputy Managing Director. I believe our total cost of that total blizzard, before reimbursement, was $16.1 million.
And this year so far, we haven't had any snow -- or last year -- of any measurable accumulation. SELECT COMMITTEE FISCAL STABILITY & INTERGOVT'L COOPERATION 119 Fiscal Stability & Intergovernmental Cooperation
That's correct. We've only had to mobilize one time for this year.
Do you mind asking what our cost was after reimbursement.
He said our total cost before reimbursement was $16.1 million, but didn't he didn't tell us what our after- reimbursement costs were.
Mr. President, it's interesting, but after the fact, what happens is -- I mean, the federal government, I believe, sent us approximately $6 million in reimbursements.
That's a significant amount of money. And generally what happens is, they'll come in about two years after they give us the money and do a complete audit to make sure that we followed all of their guidelines. And I think we SELECT COMMITTEE FISCAL STABILITY & INTERGOVT'L COOPERATION 120 Fiscal Stability & Intergovernmental Cooperation did. As long as we've done a good job, we'll get to keep all of that money.
I'm sorry for the interruption. I should tell you that there has been circulated to my office for future consideration by Members of Council a bill which would change the Philadelphia Home Rule Charter to require a mandatory snow day in every winter, because there are certain people who think what we have had so far this year is unfair. (Laughter.)
It's called "The Mandatory Snow Day Amendment To The Home Rule Charter."
Thank you. How do we plan and budget for events like blizzards in light of our geographical location, our inability to have the amount of capital equipment necessary to remove large amounts of snow like that. Because, as you remember, our citizens and constituents during the course of that hopefully one-time event of nature expected a SELECT COMMITTEE FISCAL STABILITY & INTERGOVT'L COOPERATION 121 Fiscal Stability & Intergovernmental Cooperation certain level of service that sometimes is impossible without major investments in capital machinery and equipment that would like fallow for a decade or more before they'd use it again. How do we plan and put money aside for that? Does it accumulate, and do we spend it after a certain period of time when we don't have any major snow events?
From a purely budget point of view, most of the departments budget for what they would call "a moderate winter." And I don't know the exact number, although I'm sure the Streets Commissioner could tell you how many times they mobilize in an average winter, and that would be what we fund them for. Obviously, as you're saying, in a warm winter like this, that means it's going to make it easier for them to meet their target reduction. In a bad winter, it means that we're going to have to do what did two years ago.
Do those dollars accumulate to a certain level and then stop? Or do they continue to accumulate, and it's done on a yearly basis? SELECT COMMITTEE FISCAL STABILITY & INTERGOVT'L COOPERATION 122 Fiscal Stability & Intergovernmental Cooperation
Okay, thank you. The Alley Light Program, which I think has been very successful, has basically come to just about completion. And I'm wondering if -- and I haven't been able to find --
Well, let me ask the one -- and certainly based on Councilwoman Tasco's remark about the halting of the program, the ultimate question I had -- and you can feel free to respond to her remark -- is, what do we budget in the way of maintenance? And what is the maintenance situation, and how long are we going to maintain in the future the alley lights that have been installed? And perhaps you could respond to why others have not been to installed. (Streets Commissioner Moy comes SELECT COMMITTEE FISCAL STABILITY & INTERGOVT'L COOPERATION 123 Fiscal Stability & Intergovernmental Cooperation forward.) COMMISSIONER MOY: Councilman, with respect to the -- I'm Lawrence Moy, I'm Larry Moy, the Street Commissioner. With respect to the power and maintenance costs there, as you know, there was a credit that we had from PECO, and it's a carry-forward. And we're just at a point where we're starting to dip into that credit to maintain. We're still on low-maintenance mode for most of the installation of lights. In terms of the Alley Light Program itself, we were about 89 percent complete. We are now addressing Center City to complete the program. With respect to Councilwoman Tasco's remarks there, we have completed what we dedicated ourselves to do, and that was to install alley lights where there were already existing alleys being lit. So in that sense, we have completed that level of the program.
Well, we have to SELECT COMMITTEE FISCAL STABILITY & INTERGOVT'L COOPERATION 124 Fiscal Stability & Intergovernmental Cooperation talk about what "completion" means. In some areas, alley lights were installed throughout the alleys, but when you got to certain neighborhoods, they were only installed at the end of the alleyway because you ran out of money. COMMISSIONER MOY: Well, we can certainly discuss the detailed locations, but I think the efficiency of those lamps -- they were a much more energy-efficient lamp for us. And there was really a distribution, in some cases, of two lights where there were three and they were repositioning them. So it was not a situation where everyone had the light reinstalled directly where they had a light previously. But the light coverage was, in our view, sufficient for the need. Now, if you have a specific location, we'll be happy to review that with you.
Okay, okay, I'm sure. But the question is, how have we SELECT COMMITTEE FISCAL STABILITY & INTERGOVT'L COOPERATION 125 Fiscal Stability & Intergovernmental Cooperation planned and budgeted for maintenance long-term? And do we have a warranty period? And what's the plan to keep them lit? COMMISSIONER MOY: We have sufficient funds for the credit to carry us for a couple of years here, and then we will address it on a budget --
So you have two years' worth of maintenance money? COMMISSIONER MOY: It's a little more than two years, I believe, yes.
And this next issue is a perpetual issue with most urban areas, but the streets of our City are disgracefully dirty despite the City's best efforts in maintaining and putting forth a credible street-cleaning program. Some neighborhoods are cooperative, some neighborhoods are not, with the movement of cars, in order to mechanically sweep the streets. And, granted, I will admit that the primary cause of the condition of our streets are the citizens who persist on disposing of their trash improperly, throwing their refuse in the street. And it's from young children to older SELECT COMMITTEE FISCAL STABILITY & INTERGOVT'L COOPERATION 126 Fiscal Stability & Intergovernmental Cooperation people, who they think nothing of throwing their McDonald's bag or their trash into the street, as if somebody's going to come up right behind them and clean it up. But taking all of that into consideration, the condition of our neighborhood streets from a cleanliness standpoint is either a direct or subliminal effect in people maybe deciding not to live here anymore. Have we investigated any other possible technology or techniques for cleaning our streets? Because, I mean I understand the frustration that when you assign streets for cleaning and 40 or 50 percent of the people refuse to move their vehicles, you can't effectively clean the street. In other neighborhoods, certain neighborhoods in the City, it's a very cooperative attitude with neighbors; they all move their cars, and the streets are much cleaner. What do we -- I mean, I've thought about this and thought about this, and I'm trying to think of ways in which to attack this problem. But to drive through the streets of our City, SELECT COMMITTEE FISCAL STABILITY & INTERGOVT'L COOPERATION 127 Fiscal Stability & Intergovernmental Cooperation whether it's in South Philly, the Northeast, West Philly, wherever you go, it is just an absolute disgrace. And it's one of the things that people talk or write to the newspaper about from out of town. They say, you know, You really have a lovely city, you have wonderful architecture and great cultural institutions, but the streets are so dirty. Are we looking at developing new techniques to getting this stuff up? COMMISSIONER MOY: Your level of frustration is no less than ours is in the sense of -- and you've described the problem very well. Throughout the City, we have such an irregular response to the different techniques that we've tried. And, yes, in terms of alternatives, yes, we are looking at other technologies. We look at the vacuums, we look at some other kinds of instruments that might make the job more efficient. The biggest singular problem is -- and we also look at other cities to see what's happening there. SELECT COMMITTEE FISCAL STABILITY & INTERGOVT'L COOPERATION 128 Fiscal Stability & Intergovernmental Cooperation The biggest singular problem is, as you say, in order to use the machinized sweepers, you've got to get some level of cooperation from the people that are parking their cars on those streets. And it has been very difficult for us. And this year, we are looking again at how we can do this better. And looking at getting better cooperation in various communities is certainly one of the things. We have been focussing on the commercial strips, as you know, but we need to address the problems of some of the residentials, if possible.
And, again, not to belabor this point, but I'd be happy to talk about this more at length in the budget process, in the budget hearings as we go forward, because it is a critical problem that I think we need to solve in some way. On a similar note, middle-class housing choices for our citizens are extremely limited, in my view. Young couples who are looking to move from a smaller row house to a larger either twin or single home find very little opportunities SELECT COMMITTEE FISCAL STABILITY & INTERGOVT'L COOPERATION 129 Fiscal Stability & Intergovernmental Cooperation within a budget -- within their budgets, except for southern New Jersey and some of the surrounding counties. The opportunity to develop housing in the realm of 150 to $150,000 seems to be lacking in our housing policy, and this leaves our young families with children with little choice but to move out to Washington Township or to Delaware County. What are we doing in our housing policy's planning for the future that would give us some opportunities? I know Frank DiCicco is working on a project in South Philadelphia called "Jefferson Square," kind of trying to address that problem. And I know there's the Naval Home issue and some of the other developments privately that have come forward in an attempt to address that issue. But what can we do to give our middle-class families some choices in housing, other than moving out of the City?
Well, that question would probably be best addressed to somebody like John Kromer. However, from my perspective -- I mean, SELECT COMMITTEE FISCAL STABILITY & INTERGOVT'L COOPERATION 130 Fiscal Stability & Intergovernmental Cooperation it was always my understanding that Philadelphia was known as a city where there was a lot of affordable housing. And, as you've already pointed out, there are a lot of new housing developments coming on line, both for moderate- and for middle-income families, ranging from the Cape Heart Project, to Councilman DiCicco's project, to the PIA initiative, and some of the things that are happening in North Philadelphia. In terms of new housing, I would agree with you that -- it depends on how you define "middle income." There doesn't appear to be a lot of new housing development beyond that's taking place in the Northeast and some of those other places we've talked about. However, in terms of the housing stock within the five-county region, and including South Jersey, I don't think that you can find better affordable housing stock than you can in the City of Philadelphia. It may not be new, but --
See, part of the problem is, I believe, that sometimes people make choices to move out of the City not because they SELECT COMMITTEE FISCAL STABILITY & INTERGOVT'L COOPERATION 131 Fiscal Stability & Intergovernmental Cooperation hate the City or not necessarily because of the neighborhood school or those issues, but because they want a little bit of lawn, a little bit of a driveway, some space. And I think what we need to do is begin to think about what it is that's making people make those choices from simply their housing needs and their housing desires, and then begin to invest some of those dollars that we invest in other areas in housing into those kinds of choices.
Yeah, I agree with that. And I think that if you look at some of the more progressive movements in housing, it's not that the houses are being built with large lawns, it's that they have large community spaces that they share. And there's, you know, some of the Green Fields Development initiatives that have taken place in other cities around the country. That's the kind of approach that they're looking at. And I know that Councilwoman Fernandez, in particularly, is very interested in the Green Fields/Brown Fields issue, and it's certainly something that we should be doing a little more in SELECT COMMITTEE FISCAL STABILITY & INTERGOVT'L COOPERATION 132 Fiscal Stability & Intergovernmental Cooperation terms of our inquiries for the Administration.
And, finally, on the issue of education. With some of the successes that we've had with bringing -- attracting the Kavaerner, albeit with a large public subsidy from the State, attracting potentially family-raising wages and technical and trades types of positions other than the hospitality and tourism industry, what are people doing to coordinate better with the public schools in developing curriculum that is attractive to a Kavaerner? What are we doing about Voc. Ed? I know this is going to be discussed -- I'm going to discuss this with the public schools, the School District also. But is the Administration doing anything as it relates to skills and requirements and coordination that's necessary for our children to begin to learn now, whether it's the metric system, whether it's Norwegian, whether it's -- I mean, what are the skills that are required for these types of positions, and what are our economic development people doing with the schools to get them ready to put the curriculum in SELECT COMMITTEE FISCAL STABILITY & INTERGOVT'L COOPERATION 133 Fiscal Stability & Intergovernmental Cooperation the right spot so that they're prepared when they graduate?
Our economic development people, and myself included, have been meeting with the School District throughout the years. I mean, the fundamental problem right now is that, you know, they are -- the train wreck is about to occur. But the School District does operate vocational training. They also have an extensive school-to-career program headed by Mary Jane Clancy that's made some very, very positive inroads. And in terms of designing programs specifically for manufacturers like Kavaerner, I'm not sure; you'd have to ask Mary Jane Clancy.
I guess my concern is that the School District is kind of viewed as a little bit of an island out there by itself, and it isn't integrated enough with the economic policies of the City, you know. And I will talk to Mary Jane Clancy. I have talked to her, but what I want to know is, who in the Administration is talking to her and to SELECT COMMITTEE FISCAL STABILITY & INTERGOVT'L COOPERATION 134 Fiscal Stability & Intergovernmental Cooperation her people and to the Voc. Ed. people to retool the Voc. Ed. programs to reinstitute or to establish curriculum and programs that will make these children employable? And it's not just, you know -- again, I think everybody who wants to go to college should have an opportunity to go to college despite economic obstacles, but not everybody wants to go to college. But everybody does want to work so that they can feed themselves and their families, and you don't necessarily need to be a college graduate to do that. I know a lot of history majors that are waiting tables. What are we doing from the City's policy situation -- City's policies, integrating them with the School District to try to drive the curriculum needs and the infrastructural needs of vocational education?
It was my understanding that Mary Jane Clancy communicated regularly with Steve Mullin and people in the Commerce Department, but I'll follow up on that and make sure and get back to you in terms of what direction they're heading. SELECT COMMITTEE FISCAL STABILITY & INTERGOVT'L COOPERATION 135 Fiscal Stability & Intergovernmental Cooperation
It is not just negative to work with the Voc. Ed. schools. Kavaerner is going to be a new fixture on our landscape, but we're going to have to make education prepare youngsters for adult life. So it's got to go back to the primary grade. We've got to teach them English before we can teach them Norwegian. And English is an economic development too. We have to have well-educated youngsters who are ready for all the opportunities, those that are present and those which we can't even identify now because we don't see them. And if we can make our school system one that we can be more proud of, it can be the engine that drives our economic development opportunities. If we don't, we always have to explain it away and apologize for it. And so I would like to see there be a much broader coordination. And maybe the SELECT COMMITTEE FISCAL STABILITY & INTERGOVT'L COOPERATION 136 Fiscal Stability & Intergovernmental Cooperation Administration is the level to do it between the needs of industry and the largest public responsibility for education, which is the Board of Education that has 217,000 youngsters.
The latest is 17, but I'll take 14. Since there's a large number of people who have chosen or who have no other choice than the public schools, then we ought to make it work for them.
Just for a point of information, there's another organization that is working to set up these kinds of vocational programs. It's headed by Rosemary Greco, and I can't recall the name of it. But I'll get some information about that program because the board members are all private-sector people like Bill Avery from Crown Cork and Seal, and I'll get that information distributed through the Chair.
Thank you. I'd just like to have a follow-up on a SELECT COMMITTEE FISCAL STABILITY & INTERGOVT'L COOPERATION 137 Fiscal Stability & Intergovernmental Cooperation topic that was raised, and I think I need the Streets Commissioner for this. (Streets Commissioner Moy comes forward.)
Many, many years ago -- and it could be as many as 15, years ago -- 8 I was in a meeting. And we were talking about the 9 cleanliness of the streets of the City of 10 Philadelphia. 11 And I pointed out to the group of 12 people in the meeting that in this City, once a 13 week, we have a City vehicle that runs through 14 every street. Every week, a City vehicle runs 15 through every street, or just about every street, 16 picking up trash. Now, you could be in one of them little cross streets and have a problem like I had in the 1300 block of Diamond Street. You never knew what was going to happen in that little cross street. And I asked the question, what would it take to outfit those trucks so that as they went up a street, they actually swept the curb area of the street? And I asked whether or not you could SELECT COMMITTEE FISCAL STABILITY & INTERGOVT'L COOPERATION 138 Fiscal Stability & Intergovernmental Cooperation ask the people in the street to park their cars in the middle of the street so that these trucks, as they go up, could actually sweep the street and pick up trash at the same time. Because the trucks go through the street. And I asked whether or not they could rotate sides of the street so that in one week, they go up the east side, and the next week, they go up the west side, because these trucks are going on these streets once a week and picking up, and people are following behind them, picking up the trash. And I asked, I said, Explore this, because we have these trucks going up these streets. And I got and a half different 17 reasons why it could never work. 18 They started off with the labor and the 19 contracts, and the people would have to work at night, and they couldn't work at night, and it would cost too much money, and then we'd have to -- these trucks, they would be too expensive, right? And we'd have to retrofit them with equipment that allowed them as they go up the streets to sweep the streets. SELECT COMMITTEE FISCAL STABILITY & INTERGOVT'L COOPERATION 139 Fiscal Stability & Intergovernmental Cooperation Maybe now 15, years later, it's time to think about it again. I mean, I can remember when we had a big discussion here about why should a Water Department person go into a house and read a meter and then a gas -- you know, a PGW employee go into the same house and read a meter, and a PECO person go into the same house, three different people going into the same residence, none of them having very much success. And now we're doing something very different; you know, we have automatic meter-reading. And I don't know what the latest technology is, and I don't know that in most streets if there would be any difference from 12 o'clock at night to 8 o'clock in the morning if the people parked their cars in the center of the street instead of at the curb. If it's a four-lane street, a truck could come down and sweep the street and we pick up the trash and do it at night instead of doing it in the daytime. I mean, I don't know about any of that. You all know. But it is clear to me that people are concerned about sanitation, they're concerned about -- we have a very dense population, and if SELECT COMMITTEE FISCAL STABILITY & INTERGOVT'L COOPERATION 140 Fiscal Stability & Intergovernmental Cooperation we have these trucks, and we have to have 'em, and as they're going down virtually -- I mean, almost all of these streets, is there anything that could be done so that while they're doing one thing, they're also doing another?
Coordination. COMMISSIONER MOY: I think it's a question of economics and efficiencies, and I don't know, of course, the answers that you got -- the answers that you got there 16 years ago, 12 but I can imagine some of them. 13 We are familiar with some of the trucks 14 that are out there, and there's nothing wrong with 15 the machinized brooms; it's a very efficient 16 tool. 17 But we still come back to the 18 fundamental issue raised by Councilman Kenney, and 19 that is to get cooperation in terms of clearing vehicles, which we've examined when we've looked at San Francisco and some of the other cities that are able to do this.
Yeah, but when we do this in the daytime, sometimes it's impossible. I mean, where are they going to put these vehicles? SELECT COMMITTEE FISCAL STABILITY & INTERGOVT'L COOPERATION 141 Fiscal Stability & Intergovernmental Cooperation And maybe you'd be able to do at night. What I'm asking you to do is to use your imagination and get out of the box a little bit and explore what might be possible, explore what might be possible. I mean, if there's a four-lane street, and it's traffic going in both directions and we have the cars parked at the curb, if you ask the cars to park at the center of the street, you still have two lanes where people could travel and you have two lanes where people could park, except that a truck could go up there on each curb and sweep the street. And the idea is that the truck would sweep the street while it had to be up there anyway because people were picking up trash. Now that's just a very -- sort of a rudimentary outline. I mean, we talked about it years and years and years ago. And nobody -- I mean, all I got was, You can't do this, and forget about all of that, it's too much money, you could never get people to work at that time, and ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba. I mean, we just had -- it was just it could never, ever happen, under any circumstances. SELECT COMMITTEE FISCAL STABILITY & INTERGOVT'L COOPERATION 142 Fiscal Stability & Intergovernmental Cooperation But maybe now it could happen. And I guess what I'd like for you to do is use your imagination, use your creativity a little bit, assess what equipment is available in the -- I sometimes get these big manuals, I guess we all get them, right? They're always trying to sell us some piece of equipment, there's always some little piece of equipment for everything. And maybe what you could do is just sort of look through and see and maybe come up with a proposal, then you could just share it with us, you know, about what might happen here. And if I'm wrong about this, I'd like for a Councilmember to tell me. What we'd like at some point in time to do is have you explore with us just what the possibilities are, just kind of explore with us I think, because I think we're all concerned about all the same things here. And it would be very helpful to us if you all -- I mean, this is much in the nature of Councilman Nutter's question about what it would take if we were going to do certain things. Councilman Kenney raises these issues, Councilwoman Clark had this concern about SELECT COMMITTEE FISCAL STABILITY & INTERGOVT'L COOPERATION 143 Fiscal Stability & Intergovernmental Cooperation education. I mean, tell us in this one little instance whether or not it would be a problem if, for example, say, they parked in the middle, the trucks go down the side and they cleaned them while they were doing them, and you still did everything all at once. Councilwoman Fernandez.
Yeah, Mr. President, I wanted to raise same issue. And perhaps when Commissioner Moy comes back for your department's testimony, I'd also like to see and have you all consider other ways which maybe are not as unusual as that, but just build on basics that are already there. One, I was very annoyed when I found out this fall that when we talked to Philadelphia More Beautiful, they said, Don't tell people that we give out trash cans to put on a corner because we don't have enough money to do it anymore. And as I walked both in our neighborhood and in a lot of other neighborhoods, even if you wanted to put your trash in a trash can on a corner where there's a bus stop, you SELECT COMMITTEE FISCAL STABILITY & INTERGOVT'L COOPERATION 144 Fiscal Stability & Intergovernmental Cooperation can't find one. So it's just the basics. How about having trash cans readily available in neighborhoods so that people have a place to put their trash? Second, neighborhood cleanups. At least in our neighborhood -- now. Maybe some get it more, but in our neighborhood, you have one in the spring and one in the fall. Well, there's a lot of cleaning up to do so that I think we need more than one in the spring and one in the fall. Why couldn't we double or triple the number of neighborhood cleanups? Because, again, you're using neighborhood volunteer time and energy, where we go out and sweep up the trash and put it on the corner, and you have your trucks come around and pick it up. Again, I think that would be an efficient way to tap into our energy in neighborhoods with a little extra effort on the part of the Streets Department. And the third one, like Councilman Kenney said, look at these streets where there's whole rows of trash. Perhaps a mechanical broom SELECT COMMITTEE FISCAL STABILITY & INTERGOVT'L COOPERATION 145 Fiscal Stability & Intergovernmental Cooperation could come around maybe at nighttime or other times. Maybe holidays is a time when your people are working different kinds of shifts. But maybe working Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday regular hours is not the time to get some of this trash that's hard to corner. Almost every neighborhood you go into, even neighborhoods where they try to keep it clean, it does pile up. So I would think mechanical brooms should be used not just in selected districts, commercial districts, but also in other neighborhoods where you find whole strips of trash piled up where maybe there could be cleanups maybe at night or Saturday or maybe Sunday, or where you can try to think of more innovative ways to cooperate with the neighborhood and people in the City who want to have a cleaner City. We have done a lot of graffiti cleanup teams, that's great. But the other piece we really need to work on is the trash in our neighborhoods all over the City. COMMISSIONER MOY: I understand, and we'll look into all of those issues. SELECT COMMITTEE FISCAL STABILITY & INTERGOVT'L COOPERATION 146 Fiscal Stability & Intergovernmental Cooperation
Thank you. Since Commissioner Moy is clearly the target of the day, Commissioner, you responded to a question by Councilman Kenney on the Alleyway Program by saying that the program had essentially done what it was supposed to do, and you have redirected your efforts to Center City or some Center City, I guess, lighting program or something. COMMISSIONER MOY: Completed the alleyway lights in Center City.
Okay, so it's alley lights in Center City. COMMISSIONER MOY: Yes.
Okay, I didn't realize -- I think I didn't realize at the time that Center City was a part of the program. COMMISSIONER MOY: Where there are existing lights.
Okay. So you said that the program is complete now? COMMISSIONER MOY: Yes, out in the -- certainly in the districts, most of the SELECT COMMITTEE FISCAL STABILITY & INTERGOVT'L COOPERATION 147 Fiscal Stability & Intergovernmental Cooperation Councilmatic Districts.
Okay, all right. Thank you. I wanted to get clarification on what the Center City project was. Okay, thanks.
Oh, could I piggyback on that? Because I just checked with my office because I wanted to be clear on this issue of the alley lights. As I understand it, that in the Olney area, where there are four lights in an alley, you only put the end lights in because you ran out of money, that you did not do the alley lights as they were done in other neighborhoods. COMMISSIONER MOY: I'd be glad to --
So I'd like to have a complete report on the whole Alley Light Program, where the alley lights were put in, how you determined where they would go, and the replacement in the Ninth Councilmatic District. COMMISSIONER MOY: Maybe we could get the specific locations too. I'll check with your office on that. SELECT COMMITTEE FISCAL STABILITY & INTERGOVT'L COOPERATION 148 Fiscal Stability & Intergovernmental Cooperation
Because I would not like to see money going into Center City for alley lights and you didn't do them -- complete the program in the neighborhoods. And if there are lights in my neighborhood that need to be replaced, then they should be replaced. COMMISSIONER MOY: We'll certainly look into your district there, Councilwoman.
It was flashing, now it's not flashing. Okay, thank you, Mr. President. I have one question at this time. You know, recently, in my district, we've had two pretty large fires, so this question is really going to L&I and maybe the Law Department, I'm not really sure which. We had one major fire on New Year's Day where lots of lives were lost, and we had a fire just this past Sunday where 28 families had to be SELECT COMMITTEE FISCAL STABILITY & INTERGOVT'L COOPERATION 149 Fiscal Stability & Intergovernmental Cooperation evacuated. These are all apartment building or complex fires. And if L&I has hired -- on , they state that they have hired new housing inspectors with the role of fire prevention and saving lives. In both of these situations, each landlord had been cited for not complying with fire code regulations. The fire alarms did not work in either one of these cases. In both cases, the fire alarm was broke. And in both cases, the landlord had been cited. So what is the next step? Because, you know, people were really fired up. And in both situations, they pulled the fire alarms, it did not work, and they had to get out of that house or apartment in any way they can. What does it take, or what does L&I do once they cite the owner of a building? Lives are endangered, children are endangered, people have lost all of their personal belongings. What is the next step to make landlords comply with repairs to these fire-alarm system?
Councilman, I'm not familiar SELECT COMMITTEE FISCAL STABILITY & INTERGOVT'L COOPERATION 150 Fiscal Stability & Intergovernmental Cooperation with the circumstances of those two specific fires.
However, it would depend on the citation, the number of citations, the history of the property. I mean, these are some of the issues that we're trying to address in light of the tragic accident that happened with Judge Beryl Caesar. The Mayor created a task force, a working group of people. With me is Fran Egan, the L&I Commissioner, and we're trying to identify fail-safe mechanisms so that very early on in the process, if there's an instance where an L&I citation would leave -- an unrectified L&I citation would leave citizens vulnerable -- in this case, vulnerable to loss of property and life -- then we would move expeditiously to prevent those kind of occurrences. (L&I Commissioner Frances Egan comes forward.) COMMISSIONER EGAN: President Street, Councilwoman Miller, and the rest of City Councilmembers, good afternoon. SELECT COMMITTEE FISCAL STABILITY & INTERGOVT'L COOPERATION 151 Fiscal Stability & Intergovernmental Cooperation First of all, Councilwoman Miller, in terms of the Gorgas Lane fire, that is a prime example of where L&I citations for lack of compliance with the fire code, in fact, did saves those people's lives because there was a working fire-alarm system in place that met fully with the current code. And as a result of that going off, we were fortunate enough to report that there were no fatalities or serious injuries. In terms of last Sunday's -- this past Sunday's fire, that's still being investigated, so I'd be happy to get back to you with a full report on that. But, as you know, we have instituted what we call the "R2 Program" or the multi-dwelling family program, which is a proactive approach to making sure that all apartments complexes in the City of Philadelphia are meeting fire code regulations and laws. However, just so you know, when we do cite anyone for noncompliance with the fire code, those receive the utmost attention and prosecution in the court system that we can give it in all cases; in particular, with the multi-family SELECT COMMITTEE FISCAL STABILITY & INTERGOVT'L COOPERATION 152 Fiscal Stability & Intergovernmental Cooperation dwelling. So they receive high priority by our department and they also receive that kind of response from the court system.
Commissioner Egan, I talked to a lot of tenants. At the Gorgas Lane fire, we were there for about five hours and went over to the shelter. Sunday at the Awbury Apartments fire, we were there for about five hours and went back again yesterday. Many of the tenants said that when they pulled the fire alarm, it did not work. At Gorgas Lane, on the fourth floor, some people on the first floor said it worked, but they didn't have a problem getting out. At Gorgas Lane, they were almost jumping out of windows to escape. And Sunday, at the Awbury Apartments fire, people said the alarm did not work. The person that called the Fire Department went out to his car to get his cell phone to call you, and then he went back and alerted the neighbors. Now, maybe they're not telling us the truth, maybe your investigation has shown that the landlord -- at least Gorgas Lane's landlord -- was SELECT COMMITTEE FISCAL STABILITY & INTERGOVT'L COOPERATION 153 Fiscal Stability & Intergovernmental Cooperation in compliance, but that's not what we've been told be many tenants. COMMISSIONER EGAN: Well, the investigation by the Fire Marshal and our electrical inspectors have resulted in the final conclusion that the fire alarm was working, and many of the residents who did escape without injury testified to the fact that it was working the day of that fire. Now, as I said before, the most recent fire is still under investigation.
Okay, well, that's a major concern of ours because when tenants tell us that they've pulled the alarm box and nothing happens, then we're -- we have a lot of apartment buildings in the Eighth District, and I just wanted to know, how soon does it take to get the landlord to comply. I'd appreciate the information you said you'd send. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. President.
My question has SELECT COMMITTEE FISCAL STABILITY & INTERGOVT'L COOPERATION 154 Fiscal Stability & Intergovernmental Cooperation nothing to do with the preceding question. The question that I have really goes back to the Commissioner Moy. (Commissioner Moy comes forward.)
Congratulations, Commissioner, it is your day. I want to express my appreciation to you because many streets in North Philadelphia east of Broad Street are noticeably cleaner. And this is an opportunity for me to say that to you. At the same time, I'd like to ask, what is your strategy for cleaning vacant lots in the Empowerment Zone? There are lots and lots of weeds-strewn and trash-strewn lots in the Empowerment Zone, which, I suspect, detracts from their development value. COMMISSIONER MOY: I think this is a joint-response situation there. We do have the Empowerment Zone. Streets is primarily focussed on cleaning up the streets itself.
Right. COMMISSIONER MOY: And L&I handles private lots, and I think the Commissioner from L&I might be better-prepared to respond to that. SELECT COMMITTEE FISCAL STABILITY & INTERGOVT'L COOPERATION 155 Fiscal Stability & Intergovernmental Cooperation
Okay, thank you. Go ahead, Commissioner Egan. COMMISSIONER EGAN: Thank you. Councilwoman Clark, as a matter of fact, there's a couple different answers to --
Excuse me. Commissioner, can we have you identify yourself for the record. COMMISSIONER EGAN: Commissioner Egan, Licenses and Inspections.
Just to be sure. COMMISSIONER EGAN: Thank you, President Street. About six months ago, I was appointed as a Mayoral appointee to the American Street Empowerment Zone. So serving on that board now, I'm beginning to work very closely with that board in that particular area of our City. And we are -- just last week, I met with their -- I forget which subcommittee it's called, but their subcommittee on that very process of cleaning up the lots, and they're developing a whole plan that will encompass the whole American Street Zone, and L&I will work very SELECT COMMITTEE FISCAL STABILITY & INTERGOVT'L COOPERATION 156 Fiscal Stability & Intergovernmental Cooperation closely with them to help them accomplish that goal. So we're in the process right now of working with them. In the meantime, when priority locations come in to my attention, we will respond to them as quickly as possible.
So stated another way, if there are lots that are becoming a nuisance, then people -- my office should contact your office to have them given priority attention? COMMISSIONER EGAN: You've got it Councilwoman.
Thank you. I want to end on that note, Mr. President.
Thank you very much. The Chair recognizes Councilwoman -- Councilwoman Fernandez, is your light still on?.
Well, first I wanted to commend the Administration for reconsidering its position on the Rangers because SELECT COMMITTEE FISCAL STABILITY & INTERGOVT'L COOPERATION 157 Fiscal Stability & Intergovernmental Cooperation at least -- since the Rangers serve not only Fairmount Park but a lot of the parks in other neighborhoods. And it seems to me that if we don't find a way to provide that service, you might have to pay for it with more expensive police officers, so I'm glad you're reconsidering.
Councilwoman, I think there may be some misunderstanding here. I think you should ask for Mr. Rost to repeat his testimony on commitment to the Park Rangers. I didn't hear any commitment at all to the Park Rangers.
No, but I heard them say that they were giving it some rethinking, some reconsideration.
I just don't want anybody to -- I didn't hear any commitment to the Park Rangers. What I heard was, We'll let you know before the beginning of the fiscal year what we think will happen with the Park Rangers. We're trying to get somebody else to pay for them.
That's an excellent summary, SELECT COMMITTEE FISCAL STABILITY & INTERGOVT'L COOPERATION 158 Fiscal Stability & Intergovernmental Cooperation Mr. Council President.
Well, then I would like to take a different tack. I think it needs to be reconsidered. Thank you, Mr. President, for helping my ears be just a little bit sharper. One comment. In the economic development section, on and 74, you mention this "Avenue of Technology." And, again, since that would affect -- I live in West Philly, so if it was going to go from Penn Center/City Hall out to 50th and Market, I think it's a great idea to complement the Avenue of the Arts, to have an Avenue of Technology going out by the Science Center and beyond. There was very little detail on there. Could you, when the Commerce Commissioner or Commerce Director testifies, could he give us some additional background on any businesses that the Commerce Department has already helped? Or what's the status of that? Is it just a concept at this point? Or has some actual work been done? SELECT COMMITTEE FISCAL STABILITY & INTERGOVT'L COOPERATION 159 Fiscal Stability & Intergovernmental Cooperation
It seems as if some actual work has been done on it, Councilwoman. I know from our prior discussions that this is something of great interest to you personally. And I don't see the Commerce Director in attendance here today, but I'll make sure to have a report prior to their hearing.
When they give the regular testimony. Then a question about Section 108 loans. You note in the -- I guess it's 38-39, you note that you've already invested -- or borrowed $108 million, which is one and a half times as much as what you had anticipated in doing as part of the Economic Stimulus Program. And that you plan at the end of the five years to have taken $254 million in loans. And I guess I have one concern, which is, as we know, that's borrowed against the Community Development Block Grant. And I think what I would like to know is, first, I'd like a good list of where all those loans have gone to date. And then what your projections are. And then the repayment plan and what effect that has SELECT COMMITTEE FISCAL STABILITY & INTERGOVT'L COOPERATION 160 Fiscal Stability & Intergovernmental Cooperation on the future CDBG budgets. Because I know I just heard from John Kromer that, you know, it's getting tighter and tighter, so I think we have to look very carefully at the big picture and make sure we're making wise decisions about borrowing, you know, against future CDBG dollars.
That's a point well taken, and we'll make sure that you're provided with that information as well.
Then my third point, back on this cleanliness issue. You note on , you're talking about Partners for Progress. And I hear there's a lot of activity, and it says in your report that you cleaned up 146 zip codes.
Census tracks, that's right. Census tracks would be more realistic. If 146 zip codes in the City would be done --
So 146 census SELECT COMMITTEE FISCAL STABILITY & INTERGOVT'L COOPERATION 161 Fiscal Stability & Intergovernmental Cooperation tracks. Could you provide us with a map and then a listing by street of where those cleanups have occurred? Because I would sort of like to have a sense that -- I can't tell if I go into a neighborhood and it looks like it's much cleaner, if that's due to Partners in Progress or the neighborhood cleanup or whatever. So that would be information that I'd like to have a chance to look at.
And lastly, on 189 of the five-year plan, you talk about playing hard ball with the First Judicial District and note again that you've not budgeted money -- is it after July of '98?
You know, I think it is a useful strategy because I think we do have to call the hand of the State who, for all these years, has not picked up. It's a legal responsibility for those costs. But 100 or $120 million is like a big SELECT COMMITTEE FISCAL STABILITY & INTERGOVT'L COOPERATION 162 Fiscal Stability & Intergovernmental Cooperation chunk of change. So this year, I think you found some money in different sections of the budget? I guess you wouldn't necessarily say where they are, but I would assume that you've put some away somewhere because, while I would love to have them all of a sudden pick up the $100 million tab, I think we ought to keep forcing their hand because that is a big chunk of change out of our budget.
Yeah, I think we should clarify that the City's been very careful to take the money that would have been budgeted for the First Judicial District and put it specifically in two different places. One is the line in the budget which is the Director of Finance's line for tax cuts and the School District. And the other is the line in the Director of Commerce's budget for economic development. We don't intend to spend any money from those lines until the court-funding situation is cleared. But I think, as you've pointed out, the approach we took this year created the first motion we've seen on this in several years, both SELECT COMMITTEE FISCAL STABILITY & INTERGOVT'L COOPERATION 163 Fiscal Stability & Intergovernmental Cooperation the Governor's inclusion of about $15 million of State assumption of court costs in his budget this past week, and the Supreme Court finally appointed a Judicial Council of State-wide appointees to look into this. So we feel it's very important to keep the pressure on the State and on the legislature, in fact, which is the body that was mandated by the Supreme Court to continue to make progress. So we have not gone so far as to eliminate the funding from the budget, but we have moved it out of the First Judicial District's line, and I think it's important for us to do that, to keep reminding Harrisburg of their obligation in this area.
At this moment, if some problem arose that the Mayor thought was very important, very urgent, for example, how much money would he have at his disposal to apply to such a problem without having to come to City Council for concurrent action? SELECT COMMITTEE FISCAL STABILITY & INTERGOVT'L COOPERATION 164 Fiscal Stability & Intergovernmental Cooperation In other words, how much money is there that the Mayor can make a decision and he can move money in that direction? Has there ever been analysis of that or any study?
The short answer to your question is no. 8 In general, obviously, the Administration tries to spend money within the budget in the classes and in the departments to which it's appropriated. There is, obviously, the ability in some cases to spend money from within a class and a department for a different initiative, but we don't start from an assumption that we're going to do that. Where it would be --
Well, if I told you that an amateur budgeter had estimated for me something in the neighborhood of $300 million, would that make any sense to you? And if you are not in a position to answer, could I request that you --
Excuse me, what was that question? Councilman, could you repeat the question. SELECT COMMITTEE FISCAL STABILITY & INTERGOVT'L COOPERATION 165 Fiscal Stability & Intergovernmental Cooperation
Yes. How much money -- if some problem arose that the Mayor thought was very important, most important in his opinion, and he didn't want to have to come to City Council and get any kind of approval, how much money would the Mayor have available that he could direct at once to that problem? If he were playing a poker game and he wanted to call the --
I've never seen the analysis, but we'd certainly be interested in talking to that person to see if they'd like a job in the Budget Office. (Laughter.)
Well, could you come up with an analysis for that? I would really like to know, what does the Chief Executive of the City of Philadelphia have available to him if he decides a certain project is extremely important? Suppose he decides that he appears before the Republican or the Democratic National SELECT COMMITTEE FISCAL STABILITY & INTERGOVT'L COOPERATION 166 Fiscal Stability & Intergovernmental Cooperation Committee Study Convention Sites and he concludes that we need another hotel for a thousand rooms, and then we've got the sale done. You know, that's his conclusion, and it may very well be right. And if he decides, Well, we've got to do it, what would the money be that he would have available? It could be any kind of problem. Could I ask you to try to do that.
Okay, we'll certainly try that. There are two caveats. One is that, as you recall --
Well, it's like a bit of home financing. You decide suddenly to make a trip to the West Coast or to Florida or go out to Alaska, and you have to find out what you have available. And, for some reason, it's extremely important that you do that.
I would rather have SELECT COMMITTEE FISCAL STABILITY & INTERGOVT'L COOPERATION 167 Fiscal Stability & Intergovernmental Cooperation it asked this way.
Well, I don't mind you asking it that way, but you don't want them to come back, because we got into this a little bit. We're not talking about emergencies --
I don't want to talk about emergencies because, in effect, the Home Rule Charter provides that a certain amount of emergency money can be spent even prior to Council's authorization, depending on the nature of the emergency. So you're not talking about emergencies.
And I also don't think he's talking about -- well, the City Solicitor has ruled many, many moons ago that the City has to have its budget in balance at all times. And by that -- and what that means is SELECT COMMITTEE FISCAL STABILITY & INTERGOVT'L COOPERATION 168 Fiscal Stability & Intergovernmental Cooperation that the City, within the budget limits, within the operating departments, can spend for things otherwise not necessarily budgeted so long as at the end, it can project a balanced budget at the end. And I just want to make sure that this isn't an exercise in futility.
Because we've been there. And I think what Councilman Cohen wishes -- because you want to make sure that you answer the question. I think I know what the question is. I think what Councilman Cohen wants you to determine is what are the other sources of money that the Administration might make available on a discretionary basis for things that may or may not be budgeted? And I think you have to take into account pension obligations, contractual obligations, labor obligations, because I don't think we could spend money that -- it would be SELECT COMMITTEE FISCAL STABILITY & INTERGOVT'L COOPERATION 169 Fiscal Stability & Intergovernmental Cooperation unfair to say that we could spend money that was already allocated for pension and debt service and those things. You want that out.
You want that out. And if it's possible within the limits of the Operating Budget Ordinance, what would an administration have at its discretion that doesn't have to come to Council for approval?
-- what they have to come here to get, because that's a lot. I mean, if they have to come here --
No, no, we're not talking about Council; we're talking about --
What's that? SELECT COMMITTEE FISCAL STABILITY & INTERGOVT'L COOPERATION 170 Fiscal Stability & Intergovernmental Cooperation
I assume that I'm not asking the Mayor to do anything that would get him involved with breaking the law, you know, or of a criminal nature, or just indicate that he wants to go down to the Atlantic City casinos and see how much more -- how he can personally resolve the City's financial situation by gambling.
Well, if he wants to call -- you know, he reaches a decision that's very important, and I'm assuming he's acting in very good faith. But he's either worried that he may have problems in Council or he concludes that the SELECT COMMITTEE FISCAL STABILITY & INTERGOVT'L COOPERATION 171 Fiscal Stability & Intergovernmental Cooperation City Solicitor concludes that he need not go to Council. He has this authority, he won't break the budget, you know, the requirement that the budget remain in balance, or anything. I would like to ask that that be done, all right?
And maybe within the same two-week period that President Street indicated on the other matter. Second, not even a variant of that, could we get compiled, or do you have it easily available? I would like to know all of the subsidies that the City is paying to business organizations. For example, let me mention several examples. There has been, unless it's changed overnight or very recently, annual subsidies to the ARA Building or contractual obligations where we have to maintain City offices until a certain percentage of space is occupied. And that's been going on for many, many years. And that amount, I understand is 7 to $8 million, or the last I heard, per year. SELECT COMMITTEE FISCAL STABILITY & INTERGOVT'L COOPERATION 172 Fiscal Stability & Intergovernmental Cooperation I get lots of calls from constituents when -- there was a little item in the newspapers recently about Franklin Windham Plaza getting $1 million a year. How many of those kinds of situations -- I think we've paid for things at the Gallery still. I would like a list of all the things that we are committed to pay. Do we pay for the Bar Association space at the ARA Building? I think, under the Home Rule Charter --
We're probably obligated to pay that. I'd like to know how much that is. In other words, who are we subsidizing and in what amounts? Now, could that list be compiled?
Or maybe you can tell us how we'd find it in the budget. I would like both pieces of information, where is it in the budget, and what is the list? Third, back in 1994, June 22nd, the SELECT COMMITTEE FISCAL STABILITY & INTERGOVT'L COOPERATION 173 Fiscal Stability & Intergovernmental Cooperation Mayor signed a bill which said that trucks must identify themselves on both sides of the trucks; name, address, telephone number, and nature of the business. I'm reminded about that by that by the statement of the Finance Director, because I think many of these trucks are used to doing business in a way which does not subject the persons doing the business to City taxes. You see they're loaded all over the City. I was assured at the time that the City really wanted to do something on this because there might be a great source of income, plus we don't know what some of these trucks are doing, you know, when they're just traveling around completely unmarked. Do we have any information on what the City has done thus far to enforce it? The best detective work I could manage to do was come up with the answer of zero. And I may be wrong, but I've never heard of any car being ticketed, anybody ever getting a letter saying, We found your truck doing this; therefore, we think you're doing business, SELECT COMMITTEE FISCAL STABILITY & INTERGOVT'L COOPERATION 174 Fiscal Stability & Intergovernmental Cooperation and you haven't applied for a plumber's license or an electrical engineer's license or carpentry construction work or --
Councilman, I don't have that answer for you today, but I will certainly look into it and get back to you.
All right. With respect to cleaning the streets and cars not moving, I'm a bit mystified. In the days when there was a regular cleaning schedule, the police in the district would come around the night before with signs. They'd post signs that the place is scheduled to be cleaned. And, by God, if the cars didn't move by 8 a.m., you know, whatever time was worked out with the Streets Department for the cleaning of the streets, people would get ticketed. I'd get all kinds of complaints from people whose cars were ticketed. But, nonetheless, the next time it happened, there would be very few cars on the street. You know, people would have learned their lesson. Now, is that out of fashion? I don't SELECT COMMITTEE FISCAL STABILITY & INTERGOVT'L COOPERATION 175 Fiscal Stability & Intergovernmental Cooperation understand. Councilman Kenney raised the question, and I don't understand this business of cars not cooperating. If there is a ban on parking the next morning because of cleaning, people get tickets, don't they? Or do you know? I'm asking again that question. And I assume maybe I didn't know who did the ticketing, whether it was the Police Department or some special squad. COMMISSIONER MOY: It is the police that we have been working with. We've worked in certain parts of the City to ticket. And in many cases, we also have to face the reality of having to tow, if you really want to be effective. I think what happens is, the tickets alone don't do it. There are many cases throughout the City in which we ticket and ticket. And it ruins the effectiveness of the cleaning if you just leave several cars on the strip. So we've looked at when we've talked about the alternatives of looking at corridors, we have looked at the idea of establishing corridors much as we have in Queen Village, with the SELECT COMMITTEE FISCAL STABILITY & INTERGOVT'L COOPERATION 176 Fiscal Stability & Intergovernmental Cooperation community down there.
Commissioner, it sounds to me that you're fortifying what President Street said earlier about there being -- maybe 6 now there are 20 reasons why it doesn't work. I 7 can't understand that. 8 So the first time you're not as 9 successful; the second time, you're more 10 successful. And, I assure you, by the third time, 11 most people will move their cars. 12 COMMISSIONER MOY: We will -- 13
Because they think 14 they were getting help from somewhere to deal with 15 those tickets, whoever helped them, you know, 16 their patience would have worn thin. 17 So I just was amazed by the response 18 given because I know in my area, people have 19 responded, and I think they're like folks everywhere else. Nobody wants to get a ticket. Even if they pay no attention to it, it worries them that some day, they may have to account for it. All right, would you look into that? COMMISSIONER MOY: Yes, I will. SELECT COMMITTEE FISCAL STABILITY & INTERGOVT'L COOPERATION 177 Fiscal Stability & Intergovernmental Cooperation
I think certainly in most parts of Philadelphia, that ought to help a great deal in making room for the street cleaning. Well, I'll tell you what they were angry at, they were very angry when the cars got ticketed and then the cleaning did not occur. I mean -- and I always agreed very strongly with them. They had a right to be angry with the City about that. Because if we ask for their cooperation, you know, with the threat that they may be getting a ticket if they don't cooperate, it seems to me we're duty-bound to see to it that the street cleaning takes effect. And I think that was -- if there's been a discontinuance, you know, of those special notices the day before, you know, and the ticketing, it may be because so many people had the experience that their cars got ticketed but then there was no cleaning that took place. So I would like to get a response to that. You might have to deal, you know, and talk with whoever you did, maybe the Police Department, maybe the individual captains, maybe the SELECT COMMITTEE FISCAL STABILITY & INTERGOVT'L COOPERATION 178 Fiscal Stability & Intergovernmental Cooperation Commissioner, I don't know who. But I would like to get a response to that. COMMISSIONER MOY: We'll give you a report on that.
But I would like to get a response to that. Incidently, while you're here, let's talk about street signs. For at least four years now I've been raising with regularity the fact that as you drive around the City, and those of us who are Councilmembers at large maybe have much greater reasons than the District Council members to cover the City. I must say, even though I think I'm familiar with just about every part of the City, I still arrive at places and I wonder, Did I get the right street? 'Cause there was no name for the street. And I stop at the next block and there's still no names, and I'm always told, We're just on the verge, we're getting to it, we're working on it. Could we get a report on what's been done? COMMISSIONER MOY: We'll get a report. SELECT COMMITTEE FISCAL STABILITY & INTERGOVT'L COOPERATION 179 Fiscal Stability & Intergovernmental Cooperation
Do we know how many intersections live unnamed? Nobody knows except the people who live there what street they're on. COMMISSIONER MOY: We'll give you a report on that also, Councilman.
Because I found they're very helpful. That's how you learn the City, by just noticing the signs. And after the fifth or sixth or seventh time you've seen it, you begin to remember the name of the street. And in that connection, on the Avenue of the Arts, the signs are decorative -- decorative, I don't know quite how you spell -- how you pronounce that word, but they're illegible. The print is so small. It's a nice sign to see, but you don't get any information, particularly in the evening. It's just totally impossible. Could I ask for a reexamination of why are the names of the street and the number of the blocks in such small print? Maybe at 30, you can read the signs. I'm not sure anybody at 40, which, I will yield, I have reached that age. I SELECT COMMITTEE FISCAL STABILITY & INTERGOVT'L COOPERATION 180 Fiscal Stability & Intergovernmental Cooperation don't think people of 40 can begin to read them.
There are only one or two of us around here who could see those signs, you should make note of that.