civus
Hearing video

ZBA Hearing - December 9, 2020

Philadelphia Zoning Board of Adjustment (ZBA)Dec 9, 20206h 34m

street at Oak Lane, there have been actually other numerous accidents, including a hit and run. My

Similar wording

niece's car was hit in front of the library. She only reported that to her insurance company,

Similar wording

not to the police. So that actually is one of the accidents that went unreported, but there are

Similar wording

numerous is it so a lot is it so tricky that the city put four speed bumps on your block

Similar wording

that is correct okay i don't have any other i don't have any other questions uh bill you can

Similar wording

mr carter cross-examine yeah sure could you go back to that aerial photo paul

Similar wording

all right um just a few questions on this uh miss young uh paul could you just hover over

Similar wording

Ms. Young's property? Right here. Which is right below the St. Mary's Protectorist Church? Well I

Similar wording

think that's an old thing from Google but that's where it is on this drawing. So Ms. Young when

Similar wording

you purchased the church had already burned down it was no longer there correct? Correct. Okay now

Similar wording

across 12th street on the corner we have the Oak Lane Library correct? Yes. Okay and that's not

Similar wording

single family residential correct correct and are you familiar with the premier apartments

Similar wording

yes and where are they in relation to your property right here okay are you familiar with

Similar wording

the premier apartments yes okay are you aware that there's 46 apartment units in there

Similar wording

yeah i am yes and that there's no part there's no on-site parking with that property correct

Similar wording

and that there's no part there's no on-site parking with that property correct

Similar wording

You

Similar wording

yes that's part of the problem okay and then there's also the firehouse that's on

Similar wording

oakland behind the library correct yes okay then across uh north of oakland then you have

Similar wording

the elwood school correct the car with respect i think it was noted in uh miss williams's testimony

Similar wording

that we stipulate that there are some municipal buildings

Similar wording

within the general vicinity.

Similar wording

Okay, just one thought, just one last question.

Similar wording

You're not a traffic engineer or any kind of a civil engineer, correct, Ms. Young?

Similar wording

Yes, I am.

Similar wording

I have my master's degree in civil engineering, yes.

Similar wording

Okay, so you are a civil engineer, okay.

Similar wording

Yes, I am.

Similar wording

Okay, did you do any engineering studies that you've presented to the board here today

Similar wording

for this project?

Similar wording

I did do some measuring of the street yes I did you've not presented that to the board

Similar wording

no I did not okay that's all I have my next witness is uh penny null if she could be recognized

Similar wording

I'm chair um if I could mention that we have over 100 people in this zoning I'm hearing and

Similar wording

that we have another special, and the allotted time has surpassed, and just to note.

Similar wording

I thank you, and I just said that a few minutes ago, so.

Similar wording

Well, Mr. Chair, I'd like to ask you what you'd like to do.

Similar wording

Well, if there's any substantive issues that have not yet been covered,

Similar wording

not, again, not to be disrespectful to the folks who are waiting online to testify,

Similar wording

I don't imagine we're going to get anything much different than has already been testified to by

Similar wording

the near neighbors uh well there there is Mr. Chairman there I could put on Ms. Kroll and ask

Similar wording

her like you know 45 seconds of stuff and then I can rest and then I can do 45 seconds and rest

Similar wording

and then I can do my closing argument now he can ask cross but you know I just want her to talk

Similar wording

about her property okay proceed we can finish it today then that's what we'll do if we can't

Similar wording

finish it today then then you're right okay but well i don't want us to close and we'd like you

Similar wording

know hopefully that we'd like the record to be closed so thank you ms crawl can you uh

Similar wording

unmute yourself she's available she just has to unmute herself i'm sorry

Similar wording

miss kroll penny can you unmute yourself can anyone hear me i can hear you i can yes chair

Similar wording

we hear you fine all right because i leave i lose i lose and have to keep getting out so i get lost

Similar wording

occasionally miss kroll miss kroll good afternoon please identify yourself for the record spell

Similar wording

your first and last name and provide us with your and provide us with your address my name is penny

Similar wording

Kroll, P-E-N-N-Y-K-R-O-L-L. I live at 6610 Lawton Avenue. Do you swear or affirm to tell the

Similar wording

truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth? I do. Ms. Proceed, Mr. Bonnie. Ms. Kroll, I'd like

Similar wording

you to jump to the last part of your testimony, which is about your house. Yes. I'm going to put

Similar wording

your house on here, so go for it. I live at 6610 Lawton. It's over half an acre in size, actually

Similar wording

0.66 acres in size. It's about one and a half blocks away from the subject property. I have a

Similar wording

huge, large front yard and backyard that the kids can play. The white fence you see there

Similar wording

is just the front side of the house versus the back side of the house. Well, we bought the house

Similar wording

because we were looking for a nice neighborhood to raise the children in and a nice large space

Similar wording

Ms. Kroll, so you're, now I'm showing the data sheet from your property and it's correct that

Similar wording

you said your parcel is 0.66 acres and you have a single family home on it. Is that correct?

Similar wording

Yes, I do. I'm showing now the zoning map that shows your house in relation to the subject

Similar wording

property, your house being on a property that's 0.66 acres and the subject property being 0.48

Similar wording

acres according to the engineer of the applicant, is that correct? Yes. I have no further questions

Similar wording

of this witness. All right, just a couple quick questions. Ms. Law, did you receive a letter from

Similar wording

my office with regard to the RCO meeting on this project? Yes. Okay, because I don't see you on the

Similar wording

list. Oh, that's because there are three of us who live in the house, we're a multi-generational home,

Similar wording

and my daughter and son-in-law, the Light Hearts, were the ones who went.

Similar wording

Yeah, I don't see 6610 Lawton as an address that we were required to notice by the...

Similar wording

yeah i don't see 6610 lawton as a as an address that we were required to notice by the uh

Similar wording

well oh oh let me tell you we did not get a notice from miss crawl miss crawl miss crawl

Similar wording

thank you for your testimony thank you and i would just state an objection that she's not

Similar wording

uh a near neighbor so we would ask that her testimony be stricken look at it 20 look at

Similar wording

exhibit 23 mr kurt so i i'll rest and i'm i'm ready for closing arguments i think the applicant

Similar wording

should go first since it's their burden but then I'm ready to chime in. Mr. Kroll, Mr. Kerr I'm sorry

Similar wording

are you ready? I'd like to actually just share my screen just in rebuttal to some of this testimony

Similar wording

Mr. Pony if you can get out now I'm going to find I just have one visual I'd like to share.

Similar wording

I think I'm finished I think I'm out tell me if I need to do something.

Similar wording

NEW SPEAKERS. I'M TRYING TO SHARE. IS ANYONE SEEING?

Similar wording

NEW SPEAKERS, NOT YET.

Similar wording

NEW SPEAKERS, ARE WE SEEING THAT NOW?

Similar wording

NEW SPEAKERS, YES, WE ARE.

Similar wording

Okay, this is exhibit six from my – and this is actually an aerial photo and two other photos of the prior church building that was located on this property on 1122 until 2013.

Similar wording

It's a very substantial church building, not single-family residential, very limited parking and or driveway.

Similar wording

way and this is what the neighborhood was used to from the 20s to 2013 that's what the record

Similar wording

indicates so I'll state that in rebuttal to Mr. Boney's case and as far as the closing we believe

Similar wording

that the record here support well actually are there any are there any other neighbors that are

Similar wording

going to make statements here I would hope not no I think we close that down for them we close that

Similar wording

Okay. So I believe that the record supports the grant of the requested variance. First of all,

Similar wording

this photo establishes that this property is really nonconforming since the 1920s. But for

Similar wording

the prior, this church would still be there. We're proposing a much less intensive use,

Similar wording

40 units of senior housings, which is one of the most innocuous and unobtrusive uses that you can

Similar wording

imagine. We have testimony in the record of the significant efforts made by both Pastor Richardson

Similar wording

and Mr. Bruce Morgan, the developer, to be respectful of the neighborhood and also to

Similar wording

respond to their concerns. We've been at this for a year and a half now. There are a significant

Similar wording

number of support letters which have also been submitted in the record in our binder number two.

Similar wording

So the board should have that and you can refer to those support letters. So there is significant

Similar wording

excuse me, significant support from the neighborhood.

Similar wording

We also have testimony from our expert architect

Similar wording

that the use in the proposal is reasonable

Similar wording

for the property, that there'll be no negative impacts

Similar wording

and that the requested variances are the minimum

Similar wording

that are needed for this reasonable use.

Similar wording

There's testimony from Mr. David Horner, the traffic expert,

Similar wording

that the proposal will not create traffic impacts

Similar wording

and that there's more than sufficient parking

Similar wording

for the proposed use.

Similar wording

We have supportive testimony from Sarah Rodriguez,

Similar wording

our civil engineer.

Similar wording

all of that all all three of those are experts and there is no expert rebuttal testimony to any

Similar wording

of that evidence final couple points the planning commission letter which was read into the record

Similar wording

at the last hearing recognizes the need for affordable housing and indicates unequivocal

Similar wording

support for the grant of these variances and finally at the first hearing back in february

Similar wording

council and parker's office made a very significant statement in support of the project so we think

Similar wording

We've done our homework.

Similar wording

We've done everything we could.

Similar wording

We've tried to accommodate the neighborhood.

Similar wording

We recognize that there's still some opposition,

Similar wording

but we believe that given the history of this property,

Similar wording

it's a reasonable proposal

Similar wording

and that the requested variances are warranted.

Similar wording

Thank you.

Similar wording

Mr. Chairman, I'll be as quick as I can.

Similar wording

Go ahead, I'm sorry.

Similar wording

Go ahead, Mr. Boni.

Similar wording

Okay.

Similar wording

The applicant has not provided any evidence

Similar wording

demonstrating a hardship for the use variants

Similar wording

or for any of the dimensional variances. The subject property is zoned RSD3, which is for

Similar wording

single-family residential detached only. It's a rectangular property with one corner that's

Similar wording

extended a little bit. It's 0.48 acres. It's flat. It's vacant. And we, in fact, have demonstrated

Similar wording

what we don't have to demonstrate, that the compliance with the zoning code can

Similar wording

What we don't have to demonstrate, that the compliance with the zoning code can in fact be done.

Similar wording

That a single-family house can easily be put here as it does exist on three sides of this property.

Similar wording

On the south side, there's Yvette Young's house and the rest of the block.

Similar wording

Behind it, there's a house on 11th Street behind this property that's a single-family house.

Similar wording

That's next to that rear driveway.

Similar wording

And across the street on Oak Lane, there is three single family homes. So it is really beyond any dispute that a single family home can be built on this property easily. In fact, Ms. Kroll's property, which is a block and a half away, is on a property that's larger than this property. So certainly a single family home can be on this property.

Similar wording

We have demonstrated parking problems that the applicant has not mentioned.

Similar wording

We have demonstrated safety problems that the applicant has not mentioned.

Similar wording

And I'm really just hitting the high points here.

Similar wording

But also, Mr. Chairman, take a look at the parking situation.

Similar wording

The church in the 90s obtained a variance to have seven spots, even though 74 was required.

Similar wording

Seven spots.

Similar wording

Now they come to you with a unity of use application to share those spots. There is absolutely zero evidence presented to warrant a reduction in the variance that you granted them.

Similar wording

Similarly, this subject parcel needs 27 spots.

Similar wording

So with the church now under the current code requiring, I believe, 35 spots, I'm sorry, 32 spots.

Similar wording

So the church under the current code, as indicated by the refusal, requires 32 spots.

Similar wording

The subject project would require 27 spots.

Similar wording

that's total required 59 spots, and they're providing you with 12. That is, that's not even

Similar wording

a variance, so not, I don't think a variance can be granted for such a radical departure from the

Similar wording

code. Finally, I will just add, as I'll be a bit of a lawyer and mention that this board granted

Similar wording

a variance for the subject parcel four years ago for a parking lot. It's undisputed,

Similar wording

Can you still hear me? It's undisputed that it's been used as a parking lot.

Similar wording

And so, of course, there's no hardship if you deny this application, because they can use it

Similar wording

with the variance that you granted them, or your predecessor, granted them four years ago.

Similar wording

So in conclusion, Mr. Chairman, we ask you to do the right thing. We think this neighborhood

Similar wording

has worked hard to show you the strength of their resolve. They've sold yard signs. They've had

Similar wording

three rallies. They've had standing room only meetings. They've consistently been overwhelmingly

Similar wording

voting against this project. We think and we humbly request with all the respect and strength

Similar wording

that they can muster. And I think that they have earned and that we ask you to vote no on this

Similar wording

project it does not give us any pleasure to ask that um we're we're it's a shame that we think the

Similar wording

applicant has um you know misunderstood the requirements of a hardship um in in philadelphia

Similar wording

and um you know we're happy to see senior housing someplace else at a different product property

Similar wording

there are there are areas of this region of this district of the city where the city said in its

Similar wording

2035 plan that we should have more senior housing there's plenty of areas in the upper north district

Similar wording

that are properly zoned for that and we would be happy to you know to to see the developer go to

Similar wording

one of those places properly zoned but this is unfortunately the wrong location and we thank

Similar wording

you so much for your time um and we really you know put our fate in your if i could respond just

Similar wording

briefly, Mr. Chairman? I can't hear you're muted, Mr. Chairman. 30 seconds, please. Okay, just very

Similar wording

quickly. Mr. Bonnie's testimony was all neighbors who opposed the property project. There was no

Similar wording

expert testimony from anyone who testified that it was in fact possible to build single family

Similar wording

homes on this property. And the other thing to just keep in mind is for 70 some years, this was

Similar wording

a church. And the neighborhood had the good fortune that the church burned down. And now

Similar wording

they want the property to be down-zoned, down-used to single-family homes. This property has

Similar wording

this property has been used institutionally since the 1920s. What we're proposing is a

Similar wording

been used institutionally for since 19—1920.

Similar wording

significant reduction in intensity and we believe that the expert testimony is unrebutted and

Similar wording

warrants the grant of the variances. Thank you. Thank you. I said earlier, a few minutes ago,

Similar wording

that I was shutting down the testimony. I failed to ask, is there anyone from

Similar wording

the councilwoman's office available? Is Hillary still here? Is Hillary on?

Similar wording

hillary you can unmute hillary i apologize i i got i got ahead of myself on that one

Similar wording

oh that's okay please identify yourself you're still on the earth from earlier today

Similar wording

yes this is hillary emerson on behalf of councilwoman sherelle parker

Similar wording

please proceed um well i had i spoke at the last two hearings uh mr chair so i i did not have any

Similar wording

additional comments to add from the councilwoman okay thank you i just wanted to make sure that

Similar wording

thank you very much no problem uh questions from the board no uh i think we got the planning

Similar wording

commission last time but i'll ask the planning commission again good evening or good afternoon

Similar wording

Ariel DiLiberto from the City Planning Commission. Our previous testimony stands. We are in support

Similar wording

of this project in variance. Thank you. I'd like a little more time to talk to our board.

Similar wording

So the record on this case is closed. We'll render a decision next Wednesday, December the 16th

Similar wording

at 9 30 a.m. Thank you all for your participation. Okay, thanks for your patience and your attention.

Similar wording

Thank you, everybody.

Similar wording

and we're doing 20th street now yes calendar number one four three three four one four sorry

Similar wording

um chair you um can i please just respectfully ask um that if it's okay with you all we can

Similar wording

just do the continuances for 330 so that everyone here doesn't have to wait in case it's continued

Similar wording

absolutely just give me a second to get my paperwork okay all right on the 3 30 list

Similar wording

the following cases have requested a continuance uh page number one 20 mi 2020-001830

Similar wording

2041 north reese r-e-e-se street

Similar wording

Number six on our list, MI 2020-001-861-2442 North 54th Street.

Similar wording

And what I have next, Sharon, from earlier today, you had mentioned that page number seven,

Similar wording