been with l and i for five and a half years okay and i'm in your experience with l and i you've
gotten applications like this before, correct? Correct. They're applications where you've
denied a building permit for an existing continuous use given insufficient information
or no affidavit? Correct. Okay. So this wouldn't be the first time that you approved one of these?
No, no. I've had applicants who have to go back for zoning and I've issued permits for
applicants who filed affidavits of continuous use, both and every other combination in between
have been crossing my desk. And did you notice when you reviewed the file that there's a 2018
building permit that was issued and approved by L&I for maintenance on the building?
I would have to go back and look, but most likely I did notice it. But if it was for maintenance,
it wouldn't have necessarily just dictated the number of uses or provided a detailed enough plan.
Right. But it would have stated that there was maintenance on the building. I think it was
for some plumbing and drainage. Yeah, it would have noted that.
Right. And same thing you would have saw on a 2020 permit also for maintenance of the building.
Yeah, typically. And if there was a building permit that had plans associated with it, I typically look.
In fact, I always look at floor plans to identify any work that needs to be legalized within the building,
work that might have been done since the last permit was issued till the recent permit to make sure that the plans were amended
And the building inspectors would be made aware to inspect certain areas where work might have occurred over the years that had never been permitted.
So I do scrutinize the floor plans somewhat.
But if it was just routine maintenance, then I wouldn't have looked at them in any more detail than identifying that they were routine maintenance.
And then the permit that you approved, the building permit that you approved, the scope of work on it is not a significant renovation.
or would you describe it as a significant renovation?
Well, I identified it as a level two alteration.
So level three would have been within the entire building.
Level two is modifying of up to 50% of the building,
moving of walls and such.
So it's significant,
but not as significant as a level three alteration.
And in your review of the records,
did you notice anything that was a change of use
for zoning permits or for a demolition of the interior of the property or removing of walls
to make two units or one unit or three units? Not that I recall. I would have probably commented
on that within my review. And you're understanding what's the agency within the city of Philadelphia
that has the authority to determine whether there should be violations on a property, whether there
THERE WAS SUFFICIENT EVIDENCE FOR APPROVAL FOR A BUILDING PERMIT AND WHO GETS TO MAKE
THE DETERMINATION IF A USE WAS DISCONTINUED OR NOT.
IT'S GENERALLY GOING TO BE LICENSES AND INSPECTIONS.
THANK YOU.
I DON'T HAVE ANYTHING ELSE.
I HAVE JUST TWO BRIEF QUESTIONS.
WILSON, I WANT TO GO BACK TO THESE TWO PLUMBING PERMITS AND ASK YOU ABOUT THEM.
So can you see the 2018 plumbing permit on your system?
Give me a moment.
Thank you.
I'm pulling them up on Atlas.
They come up.
so in 2020 there was a house drain replaced
that was a 2020 permit i'm looking well there's two there's two i can look at the 2020 first
so the 2020 permit would you agree with me that it says replace house drain in rear
that's what it says okay and would you agree with me that that doesn't speak to whether four units
were being used or not at the time you're not going to see that kind of language in those kind
of permits it's it's simply saying what what got done especially when you're talking about trade
permits right and do you see the 2018 permit no i have to find it not atlas it's an older permit
it predates our eclipse system okay i see it on atlas but if i were to represent to you that it
It says replace house drain, house trap, and fresh air inlet sanitary as per Philadelphia
philadelphia 2024 plumbing code would you similarly agree with me that that does not
2024 plumbing code.
Would you similarly agree with me that that does?
indicate one way or another whether four units were being used at that time
no it never would but those kind of permits aren't going to indicate use
i have no further questions all right who's your next witness sorry just one second i'm mr kelly
did you have any redirect of mr wilson i don't have any questions i just if there's no other
questions i just don't want him like yes yes thank you my first my first witness is george
my first
one is George
is he here
why don't we get another chair there
is that all right
I just moved the mic around
counsel
counsel let me ask you a question
how much longer do you think your presentation will be
because we have to be out of here
by 12 and i'm not not not saying we can't give it a resumptive hearing okay you're probably going
to want a resumptive hearing okay right uh rachel thank you very much we appreciate it so but let's
let's get in as much as we can then if we're going to give it a resumptive there okay go ahead
yet could you state your name and spell for the stenographer my name is george poolin p-o-u-l-i-n
Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth, the whole truth, nothing but the truth?
Please proceed, counsel.
Oh, okay.
Please introduce yourself and your role at PVCA.
I'm a resident of Powhatan Village.
I've lived in the neighborhood for 20 years.
My address is 3502 Hamilton Street.
I've served as president of the Powhatan Village Civic Association, and I am currently serving
as co-chair of our Neighborhood Zoning Committee.
And what's your occupation?
I'm an architect. I'm a practicing architect with a firm in Center City.
This case is about density of a single building in Palatin Village.
How does Palatin Village Civic Association look at this case?
Relevant.
So Palatin Village has a master plan.
We've worked very closely with our neighborhood and the planning commission
to work on that master plan. We typically look at encouraging density in areas where it makes
the most sense, so our commercial corridors. As a point of fact, major developments like Schuylkill
Yards and U City Square, which have thousands of units, are within our neighborhood. Our neighborhood
has seen thousands of new units within the past 10 years get constructed. However, at the core
of our neighborhood, which is zone RTA1, we do typically look to preserve either single-family
or duplex zoning, which RTA1 allows. And that's informed just by our neighborhood.
are you going to say something paul no okay um so um we are immediately the neighborhood is
immediately next to drexel university um which poses some interesting challenges um our
home ownership rate in the neighborhood is is one of the lowest in the city it's um 12 percent
owner-occupied properties so in order to ensure that we have um you know a committed uh group of
neighbors that are active in the community, we, you know, we look to protect some, some zoning of
single and two unit properties within the core of the neighborhood. I'm going to show you exhibit
our exhibit B, which is a page from the city's comprehensive plan, specifically the University
Southwest District Plan Philadelphia 2035, and I think it's on the screen now, and it
talks about the trends of decreasing household size.
You know, it's just me.
I mean, I think the concentration today should really be just L&I.
That's the only thing on the table today is L&I.
Am I correct?
I mean, I know you're trying to give a background, but all I'm saying is I think, unless I'm
wrong, this was a complaint against L&I.
Yes, we're prepared to move on.
Okay, thank you.
Our only point was that this is important to the association.
Okay, I understand it's important.
And so we were trying to make...
The complaint against elements is important, right?
Thank you.
All right, thank you.
Thank you.
Let's talk about 3411 bearing.
When did it first become on your radar at the Civic Association,
and what did you do about it at the Civic?
The Civic Association was aware that Clarence was at a point in his life
that he needed to move out of the property and the property was going to go up for sale.
Um, so in communication with, um, Clarence's family, um, they made it aware that, um, that the property would be, you know, that, that people could look at the property to purchase.
So in communication with Clarence's family, they made.
Um, and that was prior to it being publicly listed.
What, what was the first thing that you did?
Uh, the first thing as a, as chair of the zoning committee, the first thing that we did was just to see what the zoning of the property was.
and at that time we saw that there was a variance for four units and a rental license that had
expired in 2018 so um and that was really the first time that we were aware of that having
known that clarence was was in the house um all by himself so um so at that point we we took
actions on our part as a zoning committee to make sure that the zoning file was was corrected
so i'm showing the board
I'm showing the board our exhibit E, and this is, I'll represent to you, you can correct
me if I'm wrong, but you had submitted through the L&I website a communication, and this
is a reply, it looks like an automated reply from the L&I system that says that they got
it, and it includes an image of what you sent.
Is that correct?
That's correct.
Okay, so this is a submission that you made, and it says, I'll just read the, you have the property address, and you say the subject property has a zoning permit on file from 1940 for a four-unit building.
A rental license for one unit was last active in 2018. See attached documentation. And the property has not been occupied as four units for several decades. Please confirm that the non-conforming use is therefore abandoned and that the LAPT license serves as evidence of a discontinued non-conforming use.
Please confirm that L&I will record such discontinuance of use in the file of the subject property per 14305-5B3.
Thank you.
Exclamation point.
Did you receive any further response from L&I about that?
I received the automated reply just indicating that L&I had received this correspondence, but no, no one from L&I contacted me further.
after that. Is this the first time you ever submitted this type of communication through
the website? No, I'm an architect, so I'm on Eclipse every week, and I deal with plan examiners
in my professional capacity, and I've submitted other questions as it relates to the code through
the portal, and I've received replies from LNI. I think it's fair to say we have other information
from pelton village civic association through another witness um and he'll be called next but
i'll ask you at this point before you leave at some point is it fair to say that you saw online
that a building permit was issued for this property for renovations of four units and that
at that point you reached out to me to file this appeal that's correct um unfortunately we didn't
see a permit posted on the actual property but again just through the course of the work of the
zoning committee i saw that a permit had been issued and uh that the permit was for four units
i have no further questions okay mr kelly any questions rachel i don't have any questions
yeah i have a few questions so um you had mentioned that um the property was
um being inhabited by the former owner clarence is that correct correct so you're aware that he
was living there? I was aware that he was living there, correct. Okay, so you were aware, and you
also mentioned that you were aware that he was elderly and, you know, having trouble still
living there and maintaining the property. I can't speak to maintaining the property,
but he was elderly, yeah. You had mentioned that he had needed his family's help or needed to move
out of the property, I think was your testimony, given his condition, his age, things like that.
Yes, his niece, who lives in Florida, was up to help him.
Okay. I wanted to also ask you, if you knew it was on the market, to your knowledge, was this an estate sale? Was this only a private sale?
To your knowledge, was this an estate sale? Was this only a private sale? Or were you aware that
this was listed on the public market? Denise did let the neighborhood know that
interested people could look at the property before it was publicly listed. And then, of
course, we saw when the property was listed on the MLS, we saw that it was listed formally for sale.
um is there a reason that you or anybody in your civic organization given the importance of
turning this into a two-unit building didn't purchase the property
uh that's not my capacity as zoning chair so i guess the answer is no was there anything that
could hold you back as a person an individual or anybody in the organization as an individual
from being able to purchase the property?
I can't speak to that.
Okay, but you would agree that there was an opportunity
if this was so important that other individuals
besides the individual who ended up purchasing the property
could have purchased the property.
So it's not a private closed sale, correct?
Correct, absolutely, yes.
And I think with what, Paul, your attorney was showing earlier
with the comprehensive plan,
that I think that just leaned to sort of motive, but not to proof of discontinued use. So I wanted
to ask, what proof do you, do you have any proof? Mention it, given that you knew that the owner
was living inside the building, was elderly, and without, you know, do you have any proof that he
was, had any intent to reduce this building from a four unit to anything other than that?