civus
Hearing video

ZBA Hearing - September 1, 2020

Philadelphia Zoning Board of Adjustment (ZBA)Sep 1, 20205h 27m

No, I don't think we need Kurt unless there were any questions about the current condition

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or any of the construction considerations

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that the board wanted to know about.

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Thank you.

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Questions from the board?

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No.

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No.

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Okay, I think Ms. Gamble might want to speak.

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And anyone else who wishes to testify,

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please raise your hand at this time.

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I'm not sure if they're for this case

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case, or if they were for the continuances.

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Is there anyone who wishes to speak on this case, 1836, Wilder Street?

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If so, please raise your hand.

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Albert Littlepage, you're going to unmute yourself.

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Can you hear me?

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Yes, Mr. Littlepage, please spell your name for the record and give us a call.

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your address. Mr. Chairman and Board, my name is Albert Littlepage, A-L-B-E-R-T, L-I-T-T-L-E-P-A-G-E.

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My address is 1801 South 17th Street. I am the president of the Point Breeze Community

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Development Coalition. We are the coordinating RCO for this particular project.

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We're going to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth.

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I do so. Help me, God.

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Thank you. Please proceed.

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I have been listening. We had a community meeting and there are residents that are currently

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listening who have been on my phone waiting for this hearing. I visited with the neighbors after

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this particular hearing. And as Rachel knows, we actually spoke about having a continuance

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during our meeting. And when we left that meeting, we thought we were under agreement that we would

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continue this um and also councilman johnson's uh aide uh france pierre was also also privy to that

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call and we had him dispatch elena to this property because of the damage that was done to

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the joining neighbor's property now when they talk about this has to be done we asked the requested

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that an engineer be uh present and we asked this last week it's interesting that she mentions that

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the engineers automatically, magically getting ready to appear. The reality is we asked for this

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information last week. And also when you talk about the downspot, that was also one of our

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concerns. And because the property had been sitting for so long and is damaged, we didn't

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know how safe it was to proceed. But what we did ask to try to compromise with the developer was

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that they would remove the setback because that's what the refusal was for. So we told them that we

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would approve it if they removed the setback so that then they can get the

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engineer and everyone in to look at the safety and the structure of the building.

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They refused to do that. So we tried to compromise based on the things and the

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benefits that the community would like. And the reason why we didn't even take a

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vote on this project is because they agreed that they would continue this

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project. There are neighbors listening now that are indicating that they do not

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want this to proceed. We are in agreement that we had a setback removed and then

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we want to get an engineer to go and there's a woman who when the first person put in he actually

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the beams are in her kitchen wall from that house they stuck old and seen the house up it was i

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went there to look at it the next day it is outrageous uh and it is dangerous and i agree

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that it needs to be something needs to be done about it but it has to be a process it can't just

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be well we're going to do what you say we're going to do and then we have to trust in that

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because if i had to trust in that i wouldn't trust in the fact that rachel came in here and actually

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presented something totally different than what she just presented to us and i'm outraged about

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that but i think can i address that um let me finish rachel hold on hold on everyone hold on

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please just just a minute i finished mr little page and then rachel you you can respond and i i

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have some questions of my own that i'm going to need some uh expertise uh from sharon and and

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with Tanya. Okay, Mr. Littlepage, you can unmute yourself. Again, I unmuted you.

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Okay, Mr. Littlepage, you can unmute yourself. Again, I unmuted you.

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Okay, I won't prolong it. I think the most important thing is that we had a very, it was a heated meeting. I think I respected the developer and his lawyers. And we worked and we really worked to try to get to an agreement.

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we didn't know about the downspout it's you know all the other things that are being stated are

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speculative based on what will be done once these things or these variances are approved

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the refusal we would like to address the refusal we asked them to remove this setback if they

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remove the setback then we can revisit this project after the engineers there thank you

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i'm going to get to that that's one of my questions uh but rachel and then so at the

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end of the meeting um and i talked to franz from the the councilman's office um as well i had

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actually said can we put it to a vote because i had i had gauged from the tone of the meeting that

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we weren't going to come to a compromise which was okay we want you to do the engineer's report

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and we want you to set it back but we had said to them we we can't just go and set it back we have

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to work through the process there was no appreciation for any of the procedural considerations

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I was trying to explain we were it was not a friendly toned meeting and Albert was kind

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and considerate but there were some other folks who were not willing to listen to actually how

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this works from a procedural standpoint so then I said go take a vote because I figure we weren't

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getting anywhere and having another continuance for everyone to say the same thing was going to

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leave this property sitting in the condition that is which is making nothing better on either side

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of this, right? Then Albert said, well, we want to actually have a continuance because I don't feel

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like we're getting, we can get to a place where we can find a compromise. So they asked for a

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continuance. I did not say anything in writing about I'm going to continue it. I explicitly

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remember saying I don't want to continue this and I wanted to vote because we wanted to move this

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forward. So I apologize if there was a mischaracterization or a misunderstanding from

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where my perspective was but i don't know in in my six years of doing this i would have never

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in the situation where you're dealing with ellen i and dangerous violations on a property would

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have wanted to continue something for another couple months with no resolve because even if

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we got an engineer's report and sent it to the community group there would be there's no

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assurance that they would agree i think and there's no assurance that we could still do anything

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because ellen i wouldn't let us do anything understood understood i think the one thing

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everybody could agree on it's a deplorable unsafe situation and nobody wants to be here

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the sidewalk has been inaccessible for almost a year maybe even longer longer the communion said

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longer um may i ask a question um i'm sorry i had a question it sounds to me it sounds to me i could

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be wrong if going forward if this board approves this variance could we have some provisions in

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there that talk about the adjustment to the third floor that it would have to have the

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three foot or whatever the setback is required no because that was that was the only ground for

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the refusal when you're going to require the setback then you're essentially you're denying

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the variance and they can get a buy right permit they don't have to speak with the community at

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all for that is that correct rachel correct the only reason you're here is because it was already

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built out of character and didn't have a setback and it's already been built and it's already been

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sitting um and the demolition without getting approval to see what's going on there first

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we don't want to just agree to demo something that may cause more issues this has been sitting

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for two years so that that's really the concern counselor yes sir i believe you can get a make

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safe permit by engineer and then set it back eight feet but our yeah which would be essentially

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having us start over that's not a story no but it's just getting where you are now

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right but the our and i understand that our thought was if it's already been built out

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it's wired up there's plump there's you know plumbing and let's say from the engineer and

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set it back yeah and and and i don't know i don't have any i haven't seen this you have them fine

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you can show them any interior yeah we have interior i'm just like that that drain spell

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that must be coming from the interior of the building i i don't get where that came from

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can we bring kurt on the on as well um tanya because he's he's way more advanced on the

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construction side of this and has been involved way longer than I have. I want to get to a place

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and I don't know if somebody can help me get to a place that says you guys can go out and do all

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your structural engineering inspections and whatever but I want to get to a place

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but I want to get to a place that that third floor has to be set back.

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that that third floor has to be set back and you can

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And you can say, well, that means we have to start over again.

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Well, not entirely. It's just the third floor.

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And if the structural engineer comes back and says,

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this is hypothetical, that the third floor isn't structurally sound,

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you're going to have to tear it down anyway.

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Right. But going forward and assuming that off the bat is what I'm asking not

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happen, that we at least be allowed to proceed.

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I'm happy to even provide the structural report to Albert and to Petra the Nate

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you know I don't think that my client has any issue with being transparent and

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as far as the well you just got an engineer out you can't get an engineer

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just because you want one we had to schedule with him and it just so

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happened that it's tomorrow I was asking for them to have him today so that you

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know so that he could already have been at the site you know we're in a situation

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where a lot of people are moving forward with projects and professionals are not

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as easy to come by at the current moment so um kurt i see that you're on the line if you could

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speak to just the downspot in the interior um nature of this um and your thoughts sort of on

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what the board has discussed that would be helpful as you'll be the one who would have to

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undertake all of that understood can everybody hear please spell your name sir for the record

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kirk schweidock s-c-h-w-i-e-d-o-p do you swear and affirm to tell the truth the whole truth and

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nothing but the truth yes sir i do please proceed i'd like to uh say hello to ladies and gentlemen

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here today and thank them for their time first and foremost i've been uh sitting by patiently

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you know listening to everything and i would like to go through and answer any questions that you

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have as best that i can i know one of the concerns was the downspout that's in the front that simply

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goes through the parapet wall and goes to nowhere it's about a foot off the ground it will be

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removed and that hole will be sealed up it's not connected to anything i believe rachel can show a

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picture of that from the um from the roof deck adjacent to the pilot house

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i don't know why it was put there there's no explanation for it in my 31 years of construction

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and it goes nowhere it's literally i'm sorry excuse me if you interrupt i'm speaking to

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the drain spout on the facade of the building between the second and third floor

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can you bring that picture picture up rachel this one oh no it's the roof deck gives the

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front view of the property

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yep there it goes right above where the electric lines are you see that drain spout

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it's about equal to the roof line of the property to the left

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what purpose does that serve

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none that I know of

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I will tell you Frank

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they proposed to set it back

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and put a deck somewhat there

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so they put the drain spout there

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they never set it back

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but they never set it back

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is it where's the water from the roof going

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is it going to the water from the roof it goes to the rear of the property so the roof deck is all

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pinched towards the back okay this is the interior this is the third floor i believe yeah

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so you can see sort of the what what had already been done

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It's been framed, the electric's in, and the insulation is in.

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From your experience, Kurt, is there a way to set it back,

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even if it was more like a mansard roof or something like that,

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to kind of meet in the middle?

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to uh to set that back as a mastered roof we'd have to unframe everything and then start

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rebuilding again uh i think the cost of doing that would be prohibitive based on the situation

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that we find ourselves in but we don't know you may have to go back anyway right whoever built

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this thing obviously just decided to do what he wanted to do without any regard for any of the

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codes. Yes, Tom, I'm sorry. Tom, unmute yourself. Thank you, Frank. The cost would not be prohibited.

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I don't get it. If you're going to require, look at this guy.

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this is just the interior my question would be for somebody to say the cost isn't prohibitive

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based on what i'm basing it on where we stand with our budget so

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based on what i'm basing it on where we stand with our budget so i'm not trying to insult anyone i'm

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just speaking from a business standpoint but if an engineer comes along sir and tells you it is

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structurally unsound you're gonna have to demolish it just so you know structurally only structurally

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unsound was uh only brought up in the last meeting there was there was no mention of that in the

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first meeting whatsoever. It doesn't matter what the meeting, it doesn't really matter what took

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place at the meetings, what Elle and I will say. Would it make sense for us to put this on hold

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for two weeks, to get the engineer out there, to get a report on the structural integrity, and then

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circle back with the board? I think that we're kind of just, I completely understand the board's

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concerns. I also completely understand, you know, the position of the clients in trying to remedy

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this so maybe we actually need to get the structural engineer and get that information

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so that we can make a better decision than sort of just guessing on how to do this would that be okay

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and then that way we can provide that also to the community group so they feel

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so they're in the loop with that as well yeah i mean the case will stay open obviously we can't

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we're not going to close you have to go out and get a structural engineer i understand that i'm

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just saying if we could at least spend the next two weeks getting that information that we could

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provide to the community that way at least we can say hey listen we we need to demo this anyways

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so let's just withdraw or actually it's in good shape you know here's here's the path least

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resistance on this end it's just i'm trying to give us bet more answers than what we have now

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that's kind of where i was going yeah yeah i i have rachel i'm sorry question i had rachel was

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did L&I ever require us to get a structural engineer or was that brought on by the community

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group? So what I was saying to them was I haven't been in touch with L&I besides knowing that we

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can't pull any permits. We don't have a we have a stop work order. We don't have a make safe

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violation. If we had a make safe violation to Chairman Holloman or Member Holloman's comments,

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we would need to get plans and everything. I do believe we should get a structural engineer

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either way ellen i most likely will request that um so i don't i don't i think that it's

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something we'd have to do anyways what i'm suggesting is that we uh we do that it'll help

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appease the um the community's concerns and also will give us better direction and the board better

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direction um with this case going forward because the prior the prior owner went ahead and built

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something apparently that wasn't even part of the the permitting process they gave him the

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to go ahead in the first place so if you see here they went beyond the scope of the permit

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days it says here permit work not same as permits so whatever they had submitted um you know to to

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lni was not uh what was approved i'm in agreement with that and my point of bringing it up was the

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fact that uh when i discussed the structural engineer we're we were never ordered by lni to

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get a structural engineer not that i'm not in agreement that we need it but we're being preemptive

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the community brought it up we agreed to it we tried to act on that as fast as possible and um

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