COUNCIL OF THE CITY OF PHILADELPHIA2 COMMITTEE ON PUBLIC HEALTH AND3 HUMAN SERVICES4 5 6 Room 400, City Hall7 Philadelphia, Pennsylvania Tuesday, October 25, 20118 1:20 p.m. 9 10 PRESENT: COUNCILWOMAN MARIAN B. TASCO, CHAIR11 COUNCILMAN DARRELL CLARKE COUNCILMAN W. WILSON GOODE, JR.12 COUNCILMAN JAMES KENNEY COUNCILWOMAN DONNA REED MILLER13 COUNCILWOMAN MARIA D. QUINONES-SANCHEZ COUNCILWOMAN BLONDELL REYNOLDS BROWN14 15 BILL 110552 - An ordinance amending Section 10-602 of The Philadelphia Code, known as the16 "Clean Indoor Air Worker Protection Law," by providing a limited period of time, expiring17 January 1, 2012, during which certain Drinking Establishments, as defined, may apply for and18 obtain a waiver... 19 BILL 110565 - An ordinance amending Chapter 10-100 of The Philadelphia Code, entitled20 "Animals," to establish provisions for the reporting of wild raccoons...21 22 - - -23 24 25 2 1
Good2 morning -- or it's afternoon, isn't it?3 The Committee on Public Health and Human4 Services will come to order.5 I'd like to report that we have6 a quorum in the presence of Councilwoman7 Brown, Goode, Kenney and Tasco.8 We'll ask the Clerk to read the9 bills that are being heard today.10
Bill No. 110552, an11 ordinance amending Section 10-602 of The12 Philadelphia Code, known as the "Clean13 Indoor Air Worker Protection Law," by14 providing a limited period of time,15 expiring January 1, 2012, during which16 certain Drinking Establishments, as17 defined, may apply for and obtain a18 waiver of the provisions of the section19 prohibiting smoking in certain places,20 under certain terms and conditions.21 Bill No. 110565, an ordinance22 amending Chapter 10-100 of The23 Philadelphia Code, entitled "Animals," to24 establish provisions for the reporting of25 3 10/25/11-PUBLIC HEALTH-BILLS 110552 & 1105651 wild raccoons and to provide for the2 manner of their abatement, all under3 certain terms and conditions.4
Thank you5 very much.6 Are there witnesses to testify7 on this bill?8 (No response.)9
No one is10 going to testify? Please come forward.11 Are you here to testify on this bill?12 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: The13 second bill.14
Thank you15 very much.16 The Clerk will please read the17 next bill.18 (Off-the-record discussion.)19
The Chair20 recognizes Mr. Brian Abernathy, Chief of21 Staff, Managing Director's Office, who22 will testify on Bill 110565.23 (Witness approached witness24 table.)25 4 10/25/11-PUBLIC HEALTH-BILLS 110552 & 1105651
Thank you,2 Councilwoman Tasco and members of the3 Committee. My name is Brian Abernathy4 and I am Chief of Staff to the Managing5 Director. I'm here to testify on Bill6 No. 110565 relating to the abatement of7 raccoons.8 While the Administration does9 not have specific objections to this10 legislation, know its passage will not11 change our policy on how we handle these12 animals. Lawful abatement requires that13 Animal Control only trap raccoons if the14 animal is injured, agitated or sick.15 Animal Control will also accompany the16 Department of Licenses and Inspections to17 abandoned properties to assist with clean18 and seal activities.19 As I previously testified,20 raccoons are increasingly common in21 Philadelphia and other large cities and22 can be seen in neighborhoods across the23 City. Generally speaking, raccoons are24 attracted to areas where they can easily25 5 10/25/11-PUBLIC HEALTH-BILLS 110552 & 1105651 find food and shelter. Until these2 conditions are corrected, raccoons will3 continue to inhabit an area. If left4 alone, raccoons are not dangerous. Both5 the Humane Society and the Pennsylvania6 Game Commission recommend that humans and7 wildlife co-exist and do not support8 trapping healthy animals.9 Rather than trap raccoons or10 inspect properties, likely resulting in a11 citation for the property owner, we12 suggest property owners do the following:13 Do not feed raccoons.14 Use metal or heavy plastic15 trash containers. Keep the lid tightly16 fastened to keep odors from escaping. If17 needed, use bungee cords or ropes or put18 a weight on the lid so raccoons cannot19 open it.20 Keep food away from raccoons.21 Raccoons tend to feed at night. If22 raccoons steal food from your pet's dish,23 feed your pet during the day and bring24 the bowl inside at night.25 6 10/25/11-PUBLIC HEALTH-BILLS 110552 & 1105651 Keep barbecue grills clean or2 stored in a secure place.3 If you see a raccoon in the4 yard, turn on the lights and make a noise5 to scare it off. Do not corner a raccoon6 and force it to defend itself.7 Use wildlife repellent to drive8 raccoons from your property. You can buy9 a repellent at a home and garden or10 discount hardware store.11 Clean up spilled seeds around12 your birdfeeders or bring your13 birdfeeders inside at night.14 Light your yard or alley with15 floodlights or motion detector lights.16 Don't give raccoons a place to17 stay. Seal any openings on your18 property, especially buildings like sheds19 and garages. Report vacant, unsealed20 properties to 3-1-1 so they can be sealed21 as quickly as possible.22 In conclusion, the23 Administration does not have specific24 objections to this legislation. However,25 7 10/25/11-PUBLIC HEALTH-BILLS 110552 & 1105651 again, this legislation would not alter2 our current practices, because we feel3 that we are acting within the law and4 abating raccoons appropriately.5 Thank you for the opportunity6 to testify today, and I am happy to7 answer your questions.8
Thank you9 very much.10 The Chair recognizes Councilman11 Kenney.12
Thank you,13 Madam Chair.14 Mr. Abernathy, does the15 Administration recommend any particular16 thing that we should yell at the raccoons17 when we're pushing the lights on and off?18 Is there a specific thing we should yell19 at the raccoon to make it more effective?20
Any other25 8 10/25/11-PUBLIC HEALTH-BILLS 110552 & 1105651 questions?2 (No response.)3
Councilman4 Clarke, this is your bill. Do you have5 any comments on this bill, please? Would6 you tell us what we're doing?7
This is a12 case, Madam Chair, members of the13 Committee, that we have a particular14 problem in a lot of communities, and15 we've since found out once this story16 broke on TV that it's throughout the City17 of Philadelphia. I'm going to actually18 show something on West Philadelphia, a19 story that was done earlier.20 Unfortunately, we can't capture -- we21 couldn't go back in the archives and find22 the one from North Philadelphia where a23 raccoon actually chased a little girl24 down the street at 27th and Cecil B.25 9 10/25/11-PUBLIC HEALTH-BILLS 110552 & 1105651 Moore.2 Understanding the fiscal3 situation that we find ourselves in in4 the City of Philadelphia, we're5 unfortunately at this point apparently6 not in the position to adequately address7 this issue in a very aggressive way,8 which I think most people who have to9 deal with this situation would prefer,10 but I don't think that -- we should not11 enact legislation that when we have the12 resources or the inclination to actually13 do something about a problem that is14 real, that is challenging for the people15 to have to deal with raccoons walking16 down the middle of the street throughout17 the course of the day, and you'll see on18 this film that are actually are coming on19 the personal property.20 We need to do something about21 that, and as I talk to people and as I go22 out in neighborhoods, they don't want to23 hear that it's the State of24 Pennsylvania's responsibility to deal25 10 10/25/11-PUBLIC HEALTH-BILLS 110552 & 1105651 with game, wildlife. They know that I'm2 the guy that represents them, I'm the guy3 that they voted for, and they want me to4 do something about that. So at a5 minimum, we would like to establish6 regulations, and we have an amendment7 today that deals with specific language,8 one, identifying that only nuisance9 issues are abated. We're not asking for10 pet raccoons or any other type of11 raccoons that's in captivity to be12 abated. In addition to which, we want13 the City to use non-lethal matters,14 because I know there are some concerns.15 My good friend Councilman Kelly that sits16 next to me at Council is very concerned17 about how we abate that. So we want to18 ensure that it is non-lethal abatement.19 But at the end of the day, I20 think that it's appropriate for the City,21 who is ultimately responsible for its22 citizens, to come up with some measures23 and some guidelines to deal with what we24 believe to be a very significant problem25 11 10/25/11-PUBLIC HEALTH-BILLS 110552 & 1105651 in large parts of the community.2 Mr. Carter.3 Just briefly just to give you a4 sense of one of the stories, and there5 have been numerous stories that talked6 about this troubling problem. And I do7 believe we have a resident to testify.8 (Video shown.)9
Thank you,10 Madam Chair. I think that film speaks11 for itself.12
Thank you13 very much. Thank you very much.14 Any other questions of15 Mr. Abernathy?16
Councilwoman,17 if I may, there was one -- there's one18 issue that I wanted to address on the19 amendment, which I haven't actually seen,20 but I think it's important for the record21 at least.22 You had mentioned that you were23 going to amend the bill to encourage an24 unlethal means of abatement. Actually,25 12 10/25/11-PUBLIC HEALTH-BILLS 110552 & 1105651 state law requires that -- does not allow2 us to do non-lethal abatement. It's3 something that we looked at at Councilman4 Kenney's request at the last hearing.5 The Pennsylvania Game Commission has been6 very, very clear on their standards that7 if we capture a raccoon, it must be8 destroyed.9
Here's the10 amendment, if you'd like to see it.11 Any other questions or12 comments?13 (No response.)14
Thank you15 very much.16 The Chair now recognizes the17 next panel, Jacqueline Johnson, Vernon18 Neismith, Morris Hobson.19 (Witness approached witness20 table.)21
I am angry with22 the City, because I have an abandoned23 house next door to me. I have called --24
First,25 13 10/25/11-PUBLIC HEALTH-BILLS 110552 & 1105651 before we start, darling, would you2 please tell us who you are.3
I'm Jacqueline4 Johnson. I live at 2721 North Ringgold5 Street.6
I have an8 abandoned property 2719 North Ringgold9 Street. I've been taking care of10 grooming this property for years. Now11 the raccoons have moved in. The owner is12 in jail. I tracked down who has the13 house in real estate. I tracked down the14 wife. Everybody is telling me it's not15 their responsibility. The City on up to16 the Governor's Office can't do anything.17 When I come in my house from18 work at night, go to the bathroom, once19 these things have broke through my20 ceiling. Now they're coming out my21 bathroom wall. I am now out my house. I22 just remodeled my home. Now I have to23 break down more walls.24 Whose responsibility is it when25 14 10/25/11-PUBLIC HEALTH-BILLS 110552 & 1105651 we take care of our property and other2 people don't? We get taxed. We get3 ticketed. We get fined for everything.4 There is no money nowhere to help the5 citizens of Philadelphia? And to call6 for services, it's just embarrassing how7 the response that we get.8 I live in the middle of North9 Philly. What do I look like chasing a10 raccoon down and putting him in a cage?11 That's the only response I can get, and12 this is not even my property. And I got13 permission for L&I to be on the property.14 They still refuse to come and at least15 board it up. They're telling me that16 that's my -- I have to do something about17 it.18 Now, once I fix my property,19 this abandoned property is still open.20 Where does that leave me? And I'm still21 waiting for them to at least board it up.22 And that's not even saying how am I going23 to finish my bathroom after I break out24 the wall and secure it so at least I can25 15 10/25/11-PUBLIC HEALTH-BILLS 110552 & 1105651 stay in my own home and use my own2 bathroom. I mean, what do we do?3 COUNCILWOMAN TASCO:4 Councilman.5
Are we going to6 make more meetings, more laws that's7 going to take time and time? I mean,8 I've been dealing with this from August9 the 1st. It took these things a week.10 One night they was coming through the11 ceiling, the next week they was coming12 through my bathroom. And I'm living with13 a cage in my house.14 L&I has come out and taken15 pictures. This was after the one L&I16 worker said he came out, when he never17 came out. Because that was the day I18 took off from work to go to Shirley19 Kitchen's office about this problem.20 This man said he came out. He never came21 out to inspect that property.22 I called the cops. I didn't23 know whether somebody was in there24 stripping the house or not. This is how25 16 10/25/11-PUBLIC HEALTH-BILLS 110552 & 1105651 vicious these things were coming through2 the wall. Okay? And nobody doesn't seem3 to be of a concern to anyone unless they4 wake up with a furry pillow next to them.5 That's -- I mean, I'm a single6 parent. I work hard for what little I7 have, and just to let the City say they8 can't do anything about it, how much am I9 supposed to replace? How much can I10 afford to replace? And it seems like11 it's no concern. How long is it going to12 take this bill to pass? When is the next13 meeting going to be?14
Thank you15 for your testimony.16 Councilman Clarke, is this your17 constituent?18
Ma'am,19 thank you so much for coming down.20 I just want to say that what21 you've heard here is what's been repeated22 to us. And I say "us," because I've23 since heard that there are other24 Councilmembers who actually had that25 17 10/25/11-PUBLIC HEALTH-BILLS 110552 & 1105651 issue in their districts. That I2 understand that there are challenges as3 it relates to either state regs or4 certain concerns that some people have as5 it relates to wildlife, but at the end of6 the day, you can't have a situation where7 people live in these neighborhoods and it8 is in fact the vacant properties that are9 the problem. It's not the individual's10 problem, because that's what we witnessed11 when we went out in the Strawberry12 Mansion community where this first13 started. It's these vacant properties on14 the block. The raccoons either live in15 the basement or somewhere in those16 properties, and they come out and they do17 whatever they want to do, because most18 people are understandably afraid of them.19 And I was actually telling two of my20 colleagues up there about a situation --21 I won't call the gentleman's name -- that22 actually took action on his own, and I23 told him to please stop repeating the24 fact that you shot a raccoon, because25 18 10/25/11-PUBLIC HEALTH-BILLS 110552 & 1105651 that's clearly not what we should be2 doing, but it's the level of desperation3 on some of these residents.4
That's the only5 option I have. I can't go nowhere else.6 I have no place else to live.7
Right.8 So we're hoping at a minimum,9 we in Council, because we are the branch10 of government that does legislation and11 we can put the regulations in place, and12 hopefully the Administration will see fit13 to work with us to try to implement a14 program to give these people some relief.15
Thank you,18 Madam Chair.19 What I don't understand from20 the Administration's perspective is, if21 this woman's house was infested with22 rats, we'd go in there and clean it out23 and board it up and kill the rats. I24 mean, why does a raccoon get more civil25 19 10/25/11-PUBLIC HEALTH-BILLS 110552 & 1105651 rights than a rat, when they're basically2 doing the same thing and they're tearing3 through walls and through ceilings?4
And,5 Councilman, if Animal Control was called6 about a raccoon inside a property, we7 would respond.8
No. What13 would happen if the house next door to14 this lady were infested with Norweigian15 rats, what would we do? We would just16 leave her on her own?17
No. Rats and22 raccoons are treated differently under23 state law.24
Do you have25 20 10/25/11-PUBLIC HEALTH-BILLS 110552 & 1105651 any concept as to why?2
Well,7 Councilman, and I think there's actually8 some disagreement on that as well, and9 certainly there are some folks here today10 that can testify towards the difference11 between raccoons and rats.12
So to your14 point, I actually -- I'm disturbed by the15 story that the witness testified to.16
She's more17 disturbed because she's living with it.18
And that's why19 I actually walked back up.20 (Ms. Johnson speaking without21 microphone.)22
Before we leave25 21 10/25/11-PUBLIC HEALTH-BILLS 110552 & 1105651 today, I will have her address. I will2 make sure if there are raccoons inside3 her property, we will abate the raccoon4 inside her property. The property next5 door, L&I and Animal Control will attend6 together to remove the animals and to7 board up the property.8
What do you9 base your opinion or what does the10 Administration base their opinion on that11 somehow raccoons are not dangerous?12
There has not13 been one reported attack of a raccoon on14 a person in Philadelphia, period.15
So if a rat16 is --17 (Ms. Johnson speaking without18 microphone.)19
So if the23 raccoons are burrowing through walls and24 through ceilings, there's --25 22 10/25/11-PUBLIC HEALTH-BILLS 110552 & 1105651
If they're2 burrowing through walls and ceilings,3 there's likely a hole in the roof, and4 that person would be held responsible for5 property maintenance violations.6
I don't know12 the circumstance. And if it's coming13 through the wall of the neighboring14 property, if it's a shared party wall, I15 think that's a different response, but if16 it's burrowing through a ceiling, which17 was what your question was, if there is a18 roof and there is a hole in that roof, it19 is the property owner's responsibility to20 maintain that property. A raccoon will21 not create a hole by itself.22
Here's the23 long-term problem: The long-term problem24 is the City -- and this is not directed25 23 10/25/11-PUBLIC HEALTH-BILLS 110552 & 1105651 at you -- the City, the Administration,2 us and every Administration in the past3 helped create the situation because we4 didn't do anything with the abandoned5 building.6
So why will8 we not be responsible for our lack of9 treating the abandoned building and what10 came as a result of it, which is an11 infestation of raccoons?12
And my13 response, Councilman, is L&I and Animal14 Control are working in partnership to15 clean and seal buildings actively.16
What do you21 do when you go out there today or22 tomorrow or whenever you go and you got23 like a family of raccoons in there or a24 couple families of raccoons? What do you25 24 10/25/11-PUBLIC HEALTH-BILLS 110552 & 1105651 do?2
If L&I goes out3 by itself and there's a family of4 raccoons, they will call Animal Control,5 and Animal Control and L&I will go out6 together. They will not capture the7 raccoons. They will --8
What are9 you going to do, talk to the raccoons? I10 mean, what's the purpose of them going11 together if they're not going to address12 the problem of what the --13
Raccoons will14 leave the property. Raccoons will leave15 the property when Animal Control and L&I16 enter together.17
They run out.20 We remove what attracted the raccoons to21 that area, which is the easy housing, and22 they move on.23
To another25 25 10/25/11-PUBLIC HEALTH-BILLS 110552 & 1105651 location, Councilman. I am not in a2 position --3
Councilman, I'm5 not in a position to say that we're going6 to capture and kill raccoons. We're not7 going to do that.8
No. It's11 against state law to capture and kill12 raccoons unless they're actively damaging13 property.14
This is --15 I don't understand the whole concept of16 why you're taking that position.17
Councilman,18 I've had a number of conversations with19 the Game Commission. I've looked at20 other cities and their laws.21 Philadelphia is following best practice22 across the country. There's no major23 city in the country that abates raccoons24 in the way that you're asking us to.25 26 10/25/11-PUBLIC HEALTH-BILLS 110552 & 1105651
I'm just2 asking you to get this lady's life back3 together.4
And I'm very5 willing to do that, and that's actually6 why I stepped back up. There are --7
Maybe8 because we treat raccoons so well, they9 all come here.10
They13 started to talk to each other and say,14 Philly is great.15
There are steps16 that we can take under the current law17 and the current practices that will18 address this woman's concerns.19
I mean, you20 could understand the ridiculous21 discussion we're having relative to her22 specific problem.23
I agree, and I24 think we can address her specific25 27 10/25/11-PUBLIC HEALTH-BILLS 110552 & 1105651 problem.2
I think4 something has to be done, and it's futile5 to have her call L&I and they not really6 respond. I mean, the house should have7 been boarded up a long time ago.8
That just11 is inexcusable, to know that there's a12 problem and nothing is done about that13 property. And if the guy is in jail, you14 know nothing is going to be done if you15 can identify that. So something -- I16 mean, the policy has to change to be able17 to do something at the moment.18
And the policy19 actually should be able to address her20 issues. For whatever reason it sounds21 like staff did not follow up, and we'll22 make sure that that happens.23
All right.24 The Chair recognizes25 28 10/25/11-PUBLIC HEALTH-BILLS 110552 & 1105651 Councilwoman Miller.2
Who is a5 member of this Committee and part of the6 quorum.7
A few8 years ago I got a call from the Health9 Department that said that the majority of10 calls that they receive regarding11 raccoons came from zip code 19144, which12 is Germantown. So we started having town13 meetings throughout that zip code to just14 talk about and try to help people15 understand what to do about raccoons, and16 some of what you have in your testimony17 at the bottom, those helpful hints were18 things that people were given, but also19 the City sent out L&I and the Health20 Department to vacant properties, abated21 those properties. In fact, what they22 did, they actually looked at the entire23 area for whatever types of rodents or24 nuisance-type animals.25 29 10/25/11-PUBLIC HEALTH-BILLS 110552 & 1105651 In Germantown, we have the2 raccoons and we have possums all over.3 One of my staff members told me this4 morning when she was out last night5 walking her dog, there were eight6 raccoons sitting on the corner right down7 the street from her house. And I learned8 a lot back then about raccoons, and there9 were a couple people that came from some10 of the refuge places to say, Please don't11 kill the raccoons. But I think at some12 point -- and I was watching a TV show and13 on this particular show, the show was14 based out of New York. They talked about15 raccoons. Oh, darn, there's a raccoon16 outside eating my trash. So I said, Oh,17 wow, they have them too.18 But in Germantown there are19 many raccoons, and I think -- I know they20 live in abandoned homes, but I think they21 also live where there's high grass and22 weeds. Many people have large backyards.23 I came out of a church meeting one night24 and looked up on the roof and there were25 30 10/25/11-PUBLIC HEALTH-BILLS 110552 & 1105651 about six raccoons sitting on the roof of2 this community center that the church3 owned.4 So they're everywhere. They're5 in Mt. Airy. I mean, they're everywhere6 that I know of in my district, but mostly7 people complain in the northwest,8 particularly the grassy, trees, some9 places with abandoned homes.10 At some point, I don't know11 what we do about the raccoons, but it's12 almost like we have to learn how to live13 with them.14
Because I16 think they're here to stay.17 (Applause.)18
Listen,19 you know, I don't like those raccoons.20 They look terrible when you see them21 running down the street and their backs22 all hunched, and they're scary. And I23 have constituents that say they're trying24 to get in their house, they're coming25 31 10/25/11-PUBLIC HEALTH-BILLS 110552 & 1105651 through chimneys. There's another woman2 that doesn't live far from me who says3 she looked up and one was in her house4 and she had to hire someone to come and5 do something to her chimney. Someone6 else just did their roof because they7 said that they scratch and they feel like8 they're coming through. So when the9 woman before you testified, the things10 that she's saying, I've heard time and11 time again, and I've seen raccoons12 running down the street, particularly at13 night, and I learned that normally when14 it's a whole group, it's a mother,15 daughter and children, because after they16 have the babies, I guess they get rid of17 the male raccoon. It just becomes a18 female and children thing.19 But we have to do something. I20 don't know what we do. We didn't grow21 up -- I didn't grow up with raccoons. I22 was born and raised in Germantown. I23 never knew anything about a raccoon, and24 now all the sudden, we have all these25 32 10/25/11-PUBLIC HEALTH-BILLS 110552 & 1105651 raccoons. I think they're saying because2 of development that's taking place,3 they're moving back into the City. I4 really don't know. But we got to figure5 out what to do about the raccoons, what6 do we do, how do we live with them. I7 personally don't want to live with8 raccoons. I don't blame her. She's9 fired up, and I don't blame her.10 And I have a neighbor also,11 Councilman Clarke, that uses his weapon12 to get rid of the raccoons in his yard.13 So I don't know what we do.14
And,15 Councilwoman, I actually think you hit it16 on the head, is that we do need to live17 with wildlife together and --18 (Applause.)19
-- we are happy20 as a City Administration to help21 community outreach and provide22 educational materials to you and your23 constituents to make sure that the folks24 understand how to deal with raccoons on25 33 10/25/11-PUBLIC HEALTH-BILLS 110552 & 1105651 their property. And the story that the2 witness had is horrible and I'm ashamed3 that the City responded the way it did.4 We will respond better. I can't -- I5 don't know what happened, but we will6 address her concern.7
But8 they're coming in. They're trying to9 get -- people think they're trying to get10 in through the roof. They hear them11 scratching. They also said they hear12 them in the walls. One constituent said13 that they're on the windowsill in her14 kitchen, so she can't open her kitchen15 window anymore, because people are afraid16 they're going to come through the17 screens. And it's just awful. And if we18 live with wild animals, wildlife, they19 need to find their spot and leave us20 alone. I mean --21
One of the22 things I would suggest to constituents in23 some of those circumstances is to24 actually buy repellent to help make sure25 34 10/25/11-PUBLIC HEALTH-BILLS 110552 & 1105651 the raccoons avoid certain parts of the2 property as well. In general, raccoons3 are harmless and they're lazy creatures.4
Well, I5 know you don't have all the answers,6 Brian. This is a problem --7
Not that8 one crawling up the wall. That was9 pretty active, that one.10 I just have a question about11 what happens when a private property12 owner calls a company and they come out13 and abate the problem and they capture14 them, what do they do with them?15
So you're20 just saying the City don't want to kill21 them?22
No. I'm saying23 the City doesn't have the resources to24 act as exterminators.25 35 10/25/11-PUBLIC HEALTH-BILLS 110552 & 1105651
But what if2 this woman doesn't have the resources to3 pay a thousand dollars to abate the4 problem?5
In this6 situation, because the raccoon is7 actually within her property, the City8 will come in and abate.9
What if we10 set money side in a pool to hire11 abatement services for people who can't12 afford it?13
Personally,14 Councilman, I would say that's a waste of15 taxpayer dollars.16
Unless the17 raccoon was in your house, then you would18 think it was pretty good use.19
And the City20 will respond if the raccoon is in your21 house. That's what I'm saying very22 clearly. The City -- if the raccoon is23 in your property, the City will respond.24
And will25 36 10/25/11-PUBLIC HEALTH-BILLS 110552 & 1105651 come and do what to it?2
I do care22 whether they get killed or not. Let's23 put that aside. I am -- the reason we24 have concerns about this legislation and25 37 10/25/11-PUBLIC HEALTH-BILLS 110552 & 1105651 the abatement of raccoons in general is2 not whether or not the raccoon is killed3 or not. That is a piece of it, but it is4 not the only piece.5
Financial and8 we don't believe it's within the9 City's --10
So if --11 and I'm sorry to interrupt the12 Councilwoman.13
If we16 decided as a Council to put aside a pot17 of money to pay for private abatement,18 you wouldn't spend it?19
I would have to20 look at it, but off the cuff, I don't21 believe that we would spend it.22
Any more25 38 10/25/11-PUBLIC HEALTH-BILLS 110552 & 1105651 questions?2 (No response.)3 (Councilwoman Tasco speaking4 without microphone on.)5
Someone6 told me last night they're complaining to7 me about possums and she's going to shoot8 them. So, I mean, people are going to9 get hurt. So I think this is a very10 serious matter that we have to figure out11 how we deal with.12
And if the14 raccoon is not in her house but next15 door, you're going to abate that property16 too?17
We will go in,18 make sure the raccoons are not within the19 property, seal the property to make sure20 that they do not come back. And,21 Councilwoman, you are absolutely right,22 we do need to deal with this issue, but23 it's an issue of education. Possums and24 raccoons don't hurt people.25 39 10/25/11-PUBLIC HEALTH-BILLS 110552 & 1105651
But people2 don't know that. They're not going to3 take --4
I've heard7 dogs don't hurt you and I run from dogs8 when I see them, because I have a natural9 fear of dogs.10
But from a14 practical standpoint, the City does not15 have the resources to capture raccoons or16 possums. We just -- there is no -- we17 wouldn't be able to even start that18 issue.19
We're not20 suggesting the City does it. We're21 suggesting the City pay to have it done,22 which is cheaper than the City doing it.23
And my24 understanding is if the City paid to have25 40 10/25/11-PUBLIC HEALTH-BILLS 110552 & 1105651 it done -- and this is a question for the2 Game Commission -- to animals that aren't3 causing any nuisances, aren't damaging --4
They're9 causing nuisances next door to that10 lady's house. They're causing a11 nuisance.12
A nuisance13 to her. It's a nuisance to her. It may14 not be a nuisance to these people who15 like raccoons.16
It may not be a17 nuisance under the law, and that would be18 what we need to review.19
I didn't20 understand the answer to the question in21 that if we decided to put money aside for22 private abatement for people who can't23 afford to abate it themselves, you24 wouldn't spend it?25 41 10/25/11-PUBLIC HEALTH-BILLS 110552 & 1105651
If -- and this2 is my question, Councilman. I guess I3 don't understand the question. Are you4 asking if they're abating it on their own5 property?6
If the7 house is abandoned and no one is going to8 abate it themselves because there's no9 one there --10
I would11 actually argue that a private company12 probably couldn't enter that property,13 but I would be happy to look at it.14
Animal Control19 and L&I would enter the property, because20 L&I has the right to enter property.21 Animal Control would go with them, make22 sure the animals are removed, seal the23 property to make sure that the animals24 didn't come back.25 42 10/25/11-PUBLIC HEALTH-BILLS 110552 & 1105651
And then2 you would take them down the street to3 another place.4
Animal Control5 would -- if they captured them, Animal6 Control would have to euthanize them. If7 they did not capture them, the raccoons8 would find another place to live.9 And I think you hit the10 problem -- I don't remember which -- you11 hit the problem on the head. The problem12 is the vacant properties, and we are13 dealing and have been working on a14 comprehensive strategy to deal with15 vacant property.16 COUNCILMAN KENNEY:17 Mr. Abernathy, could we then prioritize18 the vacant properties if they have19 raccoons in them? Could we put them to20 the top of the list?21
Councilman, I22 can't answer that question. You also23 have to determine what vacant properties24 are causing more damage and more25 43 10/25/11-PUBLIC HEALTH-BILLS 110552 & 1105651 deleterious effects on different2 properties.3
What would4 the City do if that woman's house had --5 that entered cats and dogs and they6 started living there and there was like7 20 dogs and ten cats and the guy was8 still in jail? What would the City do9 then?10
No;16 domestic dogs and cats. Not a healthy17 situation, they're reproducing, they're18 whatever.19
No.22 There's nobody in the house. The guy is23 in jail.24
The dogs would25 44 10/25/11-PUBLIC HEALTH-BILLS 110552 & 1105651 be abandoned, it would be inhumane and,2 therefore, an animal cruelty case.3
And then4 you can take them and not have to5 euthanize them, just take them out?6
Humane law7 enforcement would have to get a warrant8 to enter the property, capture the dogs,9 and they would be turned over to PSPCA10 and the District Attorney to prosecute.11
So if there12 was a possibility of changing state law13 that would allow you to go in there and14 abate the raccoon problem and release15 them into the wild, that would be okay?16 You didn't have to euthanize them.17
That's a harder18 question to answer, Councilman, and I'm19 not going to try at this point.20
Because I21 could see the state maybe giving us a22 waiver or changing law for Philadelphia23 County only -- they like doing that for24 us anyway -- to allow you to remove them25 45 10/25/11-PUBLIC HEALTH-BILLS 110552 & 1105651 but not have to kill them, and then2 everybody would be happy.3
You put6 them out in the woods where they live,7 where they're supposed to live.8
And one of the9 issues is that they are -- this issue10 derived from Fairmount Park coming into11 the neighborhoods. If you look at the12 raccoons and the neighborhoods that have13 the most raccoons, if we drop them off in14 Fairmount Park, they would come back15 into --16
Could we17 take them further out? Could we take18 them like to Berks County? They would19 get lost, they wouldn't know their way20 back. And they'd go to Berks County and21 get shot out there by a farmer, so maybe22 that's not the answer either.23 I'm telling you, this is like24 one of the most bizarre public policy25 46 10/25/11-PUBLIC HEALTH-BILLS 110552 & 1105651 discussions ever.2 So all right.3
Most folks4 down south don't believe that I'm talking5 about raccoons.6
Councilwoman,7 I'm a country boy at heart and when it8 comes to -- I had bears going through my9 trash. Raccoons don't bother me.10
Okay.11 Let's hear the next witnesses, please.12 Don't go away.13 Sue Cosby, Rick Schubert,14 Christina Kobland and Barbara Reibman,15 Sarah Speed, Lee Hall and Lisa Levinson.16 Everybody just come up.17 (Witnesses approached witness18 table.)19
Hi. My name is20 Rick Schubert. I'm from the Schuylkill21 Center for Environmental Education. I'm22 the Director of the Schuylkill Wildlife23 Rehabilitation Clinic in Philadelphia. I24 am a licensed wildlife rehabilitator. S. Fish and Wildlife3 Service. 6 My clinic is a hospital for7 injured and orphaned wildlife. I deal8 with raccoons in the City all year round9 on a daily basis, not in any kind of10 fantasy setting. I deal with real11 raccoons in North Philadelphia, in West12 Philadelphia. I have my hands on them13 every day, and I deal with real problems,14 and I have about 14 years experience in15 dealing with raccoons. I consider myself16 an expert on both raccoons and on17 possums. 21 They are a symptom. This is an22 ecological problem. We live in the23 filthiest city in the United States of24 America. 2 If you provide raccoons with3 food, shelter and habitat, there will be4 raccoons everywhere. That is the5 underlying problem. 8 Ecologically raccoons have a9 homeostatic feedback mechanism. If you10 abate raccoons and you still have raccoon11 habitat and garbage all over the City,12 the remaining raccoons, because you can't13 abate them all, next year will hormonally14 have a feedback mechanism where they will15 produce more offspring. Those offspring16 will survive to adulthood with higher17 rates of survival and they will have18 healthier offspring. 25 49 10/25/11-PUBLIC HEALTH-BILLS 110552 & 1105651 I brought a visual aid that I2 wanted to bring here, but I couldn't get3 it in through security, which is that I4 went around my block. 5 Airy, East Mt. Airy, and in one night6 collected chicken bones, rib bones,7 yogurt containers, peanut containers,8 bags of potato chips, bags of M&Ms. 12 I deal with people that are13 calling that are hysterical. 15 I deal with people that call me that are16 hysterical, from North Philadelphia and17 West Philadelphia. These raccoons are18 brought to me on a daily basis. I treat19 them and I relocate them outside the20 City. 2 Fish and Wildlife Service, treat raccoons3 and relocate them at a wildlife4 rehabilitation setting. 16 So you pass a law where you17 exterminate raccoons in the City because18 some people view them as a problem and19 the raccoon population will bounce right20 back. 22 Some people consider raccoons a23 nuisance. That's because they're24 overpopulated in the City. I do25 51 10/25/11-PUBLIC HEALTH-BILLS 110552 & 1105651 understand that, but I don't believe the2 City of Philadelphia is authorized to do3 wildlife extermination. 8 Things like Norway rats are9 invasive species. They are not native10 wildlife. A raccoon is a native11 wildlife, belongs here, been here for12 millions of years before human beings13 ever came around. We have to live with14 them. We have to learn how to control15 their populations. 17 My clinic deals with these18 animals on a daily basis, and I provide19 resources with you on helping you with20 this problem. 25 52 10/25/11-PUBLIC HEALTH-BILLS 110552 & 1105651 So any questions about this,2 please contact my facility, Schuylkill3 Wildlife Rehabilitation Clinic. 7
My name is9 Barbara Reibman. Thank you for hearing10 my testimony. I'm an officer of the11 Burket Plack Foundation, which is one of12 the largest Philadelphia foundations13 dedicated solely to funding animal14 protection programs. Ironically, we also15 fund the Schuylkill Wildlife Center. 19 I believe that this ordinance20 is not tenable. I also think that21 fiscally not tenable. Expecting animal22 shelter staff to trap every seen raccoon23 is not a possible task. 4 The reason that raccoons I believe are5 regulated differently than rats, for6 example, are because they're game7 animals, and the Pennsylvania Game8 Commission has very different set of9 rules for game animals, and they're10 native wildlife also. 14 The issue regarding relocating15 raccoons has not been promulgated by the16 Game Commission. It's also a health17 issue, because raccoons are rabies vector18 species. So I just wanted to clarify19 those two points. 21 Also, every trapped raccoon22 would have to be killed. 11 ACCT already provides raccoon12 abatement, as we saw. Their protocol is13 accessible on their website to the14 general public. They will come to remove15 an animal when the animal is in an area16 within the home. They will not come when17 the animal is in an attic, wall space or18 a crawl space immediately. They'll come19 after the animal has been trapped in20 those areas. So the homeowner has to get21 a trap, set the trap, and when the animal22 is in the trap, call ACCT and they will23 come and remove the animal. 3 These standards I think would4 probably do the trick for you in terms of5 abating the raccoon problem. To expand6 them is going to be very, very expensive,7 as far as I can see. The Pennsylvania8 SPCA, which supervises ACCT, according to9 their form 990 from 2009, ran over a $410 million deficit as it is. 14 In terms of the efficacy of15 this ordinance, like Rick said -- I don't16 need to give a lecture on wildlife17 population dynamics. Removing raccoons18 here and there is not going to reduce19 raccoon numbers. 25 56 10/25/11-PUBLIC HEALTH-BILLS 110552 & 1105651 Regarding the rabies paranoia,2 I actually called the PA Department of3 Agriculture, and I'd like to just review4 the facts. In 2009, two animals tested5 positive for rabies in Philadelphia6 County. In 2010, it was three. In 2011,7 so far it's been three, none of them8 raccoons. 13 Dr. 3 Now, on a positive note,4 regarding the public's view of raccoons5 and this paranoia about raccoons, if6 Philadelphia is interested in protecting7 the public from rabies, the use of the8 rabies vaccine bait is doable, humane and9 it's getting increasingly more effective10 as they develop a better rabies vaccine11 rate. It's currently being done in many12 counties, including Allegheny County in13 and around Pittsburgh. Distributing the14 vaccine bait, it's just a little pink15 packet that wildlife eats and they become16 vaccinated for rabies. 10
Hello. I'm14 Christina Kobland. I actually work for15 the City of Philadelphia through my16 business, Native Return. I work for the17 Division of Aviation doing a research18 project at the Northeast Philadelphia19 Airport. I'm a zoologist. Like I said,20 I have a business, Native Return. My21 goal with my business, interestingly, is22 to convince others to share their land23 with wildlife. 6 You know, diversity training is7 all in the rage now, and I think along8 with that, perhaps it would be a good9 idea to add tolerance for other animal10 species, because we all inhabit this11 planet together. And, interestingly,12 when you study this, as I've done, you13 find that when you grow biodiversity, you14 actually make the planet much more15 stable. 18 Now, raccoons you might say,19 well, they're overpopulated, and it's20 through -- they're very opportunistic,21 and through no fault of their own,22 they're also very intelligent. 2 It's easy for them to survive there. So3 they're opportunistic, like we are. 6 Just as a little anecdotal7 story, I live a stone's throw from8 Philadelphia, Montgomery County, and one9 morning I woke up -- or one day -- I have10 a birdfeeder, and I noticed a little tiny11 raccoon -- it was so tiny -- feeding12 underneath the birdfeeder. My reaction13 was, oh, my goodness. I was just14 thrilled. I love wildlife, and when I15 saw it, I was just so touched. I16 thought, I wonder why he's out there by17 himself. 23 So not everybody thinks of24 these animals as nuisances. 6 And the City has got these incredible7 fiscal challenges. Where do you draw the8 line? Do you start to fund personal9 property owners in the removal of10 squirrels and rodents and roaches? Where11 do you draw the line? 13 Now, there's got to be a14 better -- first of all, there's got to be15 a responsibility of property owners to16 take care of their own property, to board17 up the holes so that these animals can't18 get in, to properly dispose of their19 refuge so the trash isn't available to20 these creatures. 10 We've destroyed so much of the11 natural world. 15 The fear of rabies is grossly16 over-reported and sensationalized by the17 press. This drives me crazy as a18 zoologist. 22
To the25 63 10/25/11-PUBLIC HEALTH-BILLS 110552 & 1105651 contrary -- and, no, that's right. That2 was due to a bat, not a raccoon.3 To the contrary, Philadelphians4 are being infected with HIV at five times5 the national average, and our violent6 crime rate is amongst the country's7 highest. I say City Council has no time8 to spare. Prioritize and focus full9 attention on important issues facing the10 City, not these silly manufactured ones.11 There are already state laws12 that deal with diseased raccoons. This13 proposed legislation will result in the14 death of thousands of innocent, healthy15 animals just trying, like us, to survive.16 The public should also be aware17 that when they trap an animal, the18 following animals called "vector species"19 must all, by Pennsylvania law, be killed.20 They include fox, raccoon, groundhog,21 skunk, coyote and bats. They are gassed,22 shot, electrocuted, drowned, clubbed or23 worse. So this raccoon legislation will24 wipe out countless healthy wild animals,25 64 10/25/11-PUBLIC HEALTH-BILLS 110552 & 1105651 many of which keep rodent populations2 under control.3 Wouldn't Philadelphians be4 better off teaching an appreciation of5 wildlife as opposed to its cruel6 extermination? Is this the message we7 want to teach our children? Will you8 answer their questions honestly when they9 ask what will happen to the --10
Miss,11 Miss, Miss, Miss, Miss, we get the point.12 Will you answer that lady's question back13 there, when she has a house next door to14 her that's vacant and these animals are15 running into her house, what does she do?16 You live in the suburbs and you have a17 lawn, grass, and you have birdfeeders and18 all of that. That's one thing. But she19 lives in a house that's vacant next door20 and the raccoons are invading her21 property. What does she do?22
We have a25 65 10/25/11-PUBLIC HEALTH-BILLS 110552 & 1105651 responsibility as a Council to take care2 of citizens like her who are being3 inundated.4
Is that an L&I5 matter? Because shouldn't they be6 boarding up the property? That's the --7
That's8 what she asked for. Okay? That's what9 she asked for.10
I can give some11 light on it, because I don't live in the12 suburbs. I live in a row house in13 Germantown, where there are raccoons.14 And, again, I understand the woman's15 problem, but the underlying problem is16 trash and vacant houses.17