Well,18 you've had your testimony. I'm asking19 this lady. I mean, you know, people who20 live in the City, folks that are on21 television who live next door to a house22 that is abandoned, and what we're saying23 to the City, there's a problem with24 having abandoned properties like that25 66 10/25/11-PUBLIC HEALTH-BILLS 110552 & 1105651 where the raccoons can go inside. So we2 have a problem here. But I just can't3 sit here and listen to you talk -- just4 read that stuff, because I just think5 you're insensitive to the needs of the6 people who live in the City. They live7 in row houses. They don't live in single8 houses, the majority of them that are9 having these problems.10 So would you end your11 testimony, please. Would you end your12 testimony.13
Yes, I will.14 So my final remark was how we15 answer the question -- will you answer16 questions honestly when children see17 these animals caught in a cage?18 Sometimes they're left there for days on19 end until someone comes by to kill it.20 How will you explain this to a child that21 these animals are just going to be22 destroyed just because they're living23 there?24 And just because I live in the25 67 10/25/11-PUBLIC HEALTH-BILLS 110552 & 1105651 suburbs doesn't mean I'm insensitive2 to -- I lived much of my life within a3 city and I know exactly what the4 challenges are, but I don't think it's an5 issue of the animals. I think it's an6 issue with these vacant properties or7 properties that aren't properly boarded8 up, when there are holes there. The9 animals, they'll find a way in. If it's10 not a raccoon, it's another one.11
Thank you12 very much. Thank you for your testimony.13
Hi. I17 have a question for Rick Schubert. You18 said that they bring you raccoons all the19 time. Who are "they"?20
The public25 68 10/25/11-PUBLIC HEALTH-BILLS 110552 & 1105651 brings me raccoons that are injured or2 orphaned. I'm a licensed wildlife3 rehabilitator. I provide them with4 medical care and supportive care, and I5 take them outside the City and following6 state regulations and release them.7
Okay.8 And I think you said also that you're9 pretty knowledgeable about raccoons.10
So what12 do you do -- I mean, sure, we all know13 the City has an issue with trash. We all14 know that. We live here, too. But when15 they're climbing on people's roofs trying16 to get into their homes, what advice17 would you give someone? And people kind18 of think they're between the walls19 because they hear them scratching. What20 do they do?21
There's two22 solutions to that problem. There is the23 short-term fix and there's a long-term24 fix. The short-term fix was what was25 69 10/25/11-PUBLIC HEALTH-BILLS 110552 & 1105651 explained by Mr. Abernathy with City2 Animal Control. The long-term fix is3 that the raccoons are not the problem.4 It's the abandoned properties, the vacant5 lots and the trash. And until those are6 fixed, the raccoons will repopulate next7 year. In other words, in 2012, you'll8 have just as many raccoons.9
Correct. In the16 occupied homes, Mr. Abernathy answered17 that question.18
I think in the21 occupied homes that have raccoons living22 in them, Mr. Abernathy answered that23 question on how that is taken care of, by24 Animal Control.25 70 10/25/11-PUBLIC HEALTH-BILLS 110552 & 1105651
I know2 that, but what can they do to keep3 raccoons out of -- somehow, someway4 they're getting in and in the walls.5
I can talk about6 this all day. I don't want to take up7 too much time, but I answer this phone8 call every day. People call me on the9 phone and ask me this question from the10 City, from North Philadelphia, from West11 Philadelphia.12
215-482-8217 is15 the number for the Schyulkill Wildlife16 Rehabilitation Clinic. And how I answer17 that question is, there is always a way18 that the raccoon is getting in. If you19 don't solve that problem, it will be20 something else other than a raccoon. It21 will be a possum, squirrels, skunks, you22 name it. So you have to figure out how23 the raccoons are getting into your house24 and seal that up. My recommendation is25 71 10/25/11-PUBLIC HEALTH-BILLS 110552 & 1105651 hardware cloth, which is available at any2 hardware store. Half-inch to3 quarter-inch hardware cloth will keep any4 animal out if it's tacked up inside,5 holes in attics and things like that.6 Number two, getting rid of the7 animals that are there. There are many8 things that will get rid of raccoons.9 Raccoons do not like noise, smells,10 sounds. You can put ammonia-soaked rags.11 You could use loud music. You can use12 lights. You can use clumps from cat13 litter boxes in your attic. All of these14 things are things that get raccoons out15 of a property.16 Number three, you have to look17 at why the raccoon is there to begin18 with, which is why -- they're not there19 unless they have food. They're eating20 food from somewhere. If you eliminate21 the food, you eliminate the raccoons.22 Simple as that. You eliminate the food,23 you eliminate the raccoons. They can't24 survive on air. They need to eat25 72 10/25/11-PUBLIC HEALTH-BILLS 110552 & 1105651 something.2
Well,3 some people think that the parent is4 leaving the babies in the wall, going5 out, getting food and bringing it back.6
So there9 is no food. They're just going out to10 find food and then bring it back.11
Right. There's12 food in the neighborhood. The raccoons13 have a very small territory. So they're14 finding food in the neighborhood.15
Okay. So16 do you have a website? Do you have tips17 on a website?18
I have --19 raccoon issues are very complicated. I20 prefer to deal with them on -- I'll talk21 to the actual person and give them tips.22 There is endless resources on the23 Internet on how to exclude raccoons from24 your property, but I will also speak to25 73 10/25/11-PUBLIC HEALTH-BILLS 110552 & 1105651 people individually on how to do it in2 their case-by-case basis.3
Could I just add6 something. There's tips on the7 Philadelphia Health Department's website.8 There's two really nice handouts that9 address those issues.10
Well, you11 know, years ago when I got the call from12 the Health Department, I actually went on13 the website, and there's lots of14 information on there, but everybody15 doesn't have -- we have a digital divide16 here in the City. So everybody doesn't17 have access to a website. But that is18 something that we could help educate19 people on, maybe put it on government20 access channel, all those kind of things.21 I think we have to really be aggressive22 with helping people understand the nature23 of this problem here in the City, because24 it is an issue. It's not manufactured,25 74 10/25/11-PUBLIC HEALTH-BILLS 110552 & 1105651 as you described, Christina. It is not a2 manufactured problem. This Council has3 to deal with real issues. The lady in4 the back, the witness, real issues.5 People that call me, real issues.6 They're not making them up. And it's our7 role and our responsibility to deal with8 that. I just want to help educate9 people, because this has been an ongoing10 problem for years, and I see it just11 continuing for years.12 I don't want to live with a13 raccoon or a possum, and those are the14 two that we see all the time. When I15 watch that animal show on TV, I mean,16 they have people in Florida catching17 alligators because they're posing a18 threat. People see raccoons as a threat.19 They're afraid of them. They don't know20 about them.21 We're not afraid of animals.22 We're not afraid of dogs and cats and23 animals we're familiar with, but we24 don't -- we haven't learned how to live25 75 10/25/11-PUBLIC HEALTH-BILLS 110552 & 1105651 with wildlife. I don't want to live with2 wildlife personally.3 Thank you.4
Thank you.5 Next. Would you come to the6 table, please, Miss, and testify.7
Thank you,12 Madam Chair. Madam Chair, I'm going to13 have to leave the Chambers. I know I'm14 not on the Committee, but I just would15 like to ask for the Committee to give16 favorable consideration. There is one17 amendment. You know, I'll be real brief.18 As we sit here today and19 talk -- and Councilwoman just talked20 about a digital divide -- it is clear21 that we have a raccoon divide here,22 because people in certain neighborhoods23 take this in a very serious way and24 people in other neighborhoods don't, and25 76 10/25/11-PUBLIC HEALTH-BILLS 110552 & 1105651 that's understandable, but it is a real2 problem. It is a challenge that all of3 the people who have that challenge have4 to deal with on a daily basis.5 So I would like to, at a6 minimum, hope that the people would7 understand that there are areas outside8 of where you live or there are issues9 outside of where you live that are as10 important to those people.11 Councilwoman said and the Chair12 said it's our responsibility as13 Councilmembers to deal with this problem,14 and we're here today to try and deal with15 this, and hopefully we can work with the16 Administration to come up with some17 solution, whatever it may be.18 Thank you, Madam Chair.19
Thank you.20 Would you state your name for21 the record, please, and proceed with your22 testimony.23
Thank you. My name24 is Lee Hall. I'm Vice-President for25 77 10/25/11-PUBLIC HEALTH-BILLS 110552 & 1105651 Legal Affairs for a group called Friends2 of Animals, who are an international3 advocacy organization for animal welfare,4 and I'm here today representing 3085 current members in the City of6 Philadelphia, and thank you, members of7 Council, for hearing me out. org, in case9 there are any follow-up questions. I'll10 be very brief today. 12 Let's make Philadelphia the13 greenest city. That's the ambitious goal14 of Mayor Nutter for Philadelphia, and15 let's remember that green means respect16 for other living beings within a17 bio-community. Philadelphia is part of18 the native range of raccoons. That's all19 regions of Philadelphia. There is no20 divide. S. 6 Attacks on humans by raccoons7 are extremely rare and always the result8 of the raccoon feeling threatened. As9 for resolving the perceived conflicts or10 the real conflicts, the issues facing11 people on a day-to-day basis, trapping is12 unlikely to resolve these issues because13 of what Rick, the wildlife biologist, has14 said, and, that is, the natural tendency15 of raccoons to augment their reproductive16 rate and then fill in. So if there's a17 den around, the other raccoons will know18 about it or quickly discover it. 21 One 2008 study showed that the22 costs of large-scale measures to23 eradicate raccoons from the given area24 for a certain time are usually many times25 79 10/25/11-PUBLIC HEALTH-BILLS 110552 & 1105651 higher than the cost of the damage done2 by the raccoons. 6 One thing that hasn't been7 brought up today or in the proposed8 legislation is the benefits that raccoons9 bring in the biological sense. They're10 omnivorous. They are recyclers. They do11 take leftovers from municipal waste and12 they use it. They also control insects13 in private and community gardens. Much14 greener to respect animals' natural roles15 than reach for pesticides. And also, as16 Christina said, many people do -- and17 this is an issue, too. 20 We often find at Friends of21 Animals that if a particular group of22 animals is targeted in what they see is23 an overbearing way, they'll try to24 protect those animals, and that will25 80 10/25/11-PUBLIC HEALTH-BILLS 110552 & 1105651 exacerbate the situation, because the2 last thing you want is somebody trying to3 shelter animals or feed them more. 6 In conclusion, as Philadelphia7 resident and Friends of Animals member8 Bridget Irons, who is here today, has9 said and has testified on paper, the10 raccoon is here to stay. We must deal11 with encounters such as this in a humane12 way. 14 Raccoons are noted for their15 intelligence, as was mentioned. Studies16 show that they're able to remember the17 solutions that they found for problems18 three years after learning them. So they19 are beings to be respected. 4
Thank you5 very much. I think the point here today6 that the Councilman is trying to make is7 that we receive calls about raccoons in8 vacant houses next to people who don't --9 who are being invaded. The question here10 is what do we do about that.11 Nobody is against the raccoons.12 Nobody wants to kill the raccoons.13 Nobody -- what they want to do is find14 out from the City, if a person calls with15 a house that's vacant with raccoons or16 any other foreign -- other animal that's17 a nuisance, what is the City going to do18 about it. That is the question, and19 that's the answer we want to get. That's20 what we're trying to get to.21 Thank you all for your22 testimony.23 Is there anybody else here to24 testify on this bill?25 82 10/25/11-PUBLIC HEALTH-BILLS 110552 & 1105651 Come on.2 (Witnesses approached witness3 table.)4
Good afternoon,5 Councilmembers. My name is Sarah Speed.6 I'm the Pennsylvania State Director of7 the Humane Society of the United States,8 and as my name implies, I will be brief.9 I represent nearly 650,00010 members within the Commonwealth of11 Pennsylvania. However, I would like to12 clarify that as Pennsylvania State13 Director, I am a generalist and not a14 wildlife biologist.15 I am here today, though, to put16 the resources of my organization at your17 disposal to craft a humane and18 comprehensive plan of action for dealing19 with this problem. We have a number of20 wildlife biologists who work with cities21 and municipalities all over the country22 to create solutions for dealing and23 living with urban wildlife. We have an24 urban wildlife haven program. We have a25 83 10/25/11-PUBLIC HEALTH-BILLS 110552 & 1105651 number of resources on our website,2 including a list of humane ways to abate3 raccoons, including some of the options4 that were already listed today. Our5 website is HumaneSociety.org. On that6 left-hand side, there is a section you7 can click on that says "wild neighbors,"8 and it does have a listing and a specific9 page just for raccoons and how to deal10 with them.11 So I would like to offer our12 services to help the City craft a13 cost-effective way to educate the public14 on how they can help keep raccoons out of15 their houses, how the City can16 effectively and humanely deal with this17 issue and respond to these calls about18 vacant lots.19 I have put together some20 written testimony that does include also21 my contact information, and I would be22 available for any further questions from23 the Committee.24
Thank you25 84 10/25/11-PUBLIC HEALTH-BILLS 110552 & 1105651 very much. I appreciate that offer of2 support and also to know that you are3 available to help us deal with this4 issue. Thank you. He'll take your5 testimony for the --6
Thank you. I'm7 afraid I took a spill on the way and8 twisted my ankle.9
We'll put10 a copy of your written testimony in the11 record. Your full testimony will be in12 the record.13
Hi there. My18 name is Lisa Levinson and I want to do a19 few things here. I run a Toad Detour,20 which probably Councilman Curtis Jones is21 aware of because --22
Would you23 speak into the microphone. You have a24 very soft voice.25 85 10/25/11-PUBLIC HEALTH-BILLS 110552 & 1105651
Okay. 3 So anyway, my name is Lisa4 Levinson and I am the coordinator of the5 Toad Detour. 7 I also live in West Philadelphia and have8 been participating for many years in9 Project MEOW, which is a -- we rescue10 wild cats, stray cats, that are in the11 City. 18 And so they have -- many people actually19 have talked about the cats and the20 raccoons. They live together. They also21 live with the possums in these22 environments, and they cohabitate. 2 My concern is that by going in3 and trapping the raccoons, first of all,4 I think it's going to be difficult to do5 that without trapping the possums and6 also the cats that are there. And that7 most of the people that I spoke with, the8 residents -- and mostly my contacts were9 the West Philadelphia area around 44th10 and Haverford area, and the residents11 actually that I spoke to like the12 raccoons. They feel that they help to13 keep the rodent population down. 18 Some people are afraid of the19 raccoons. They don't understand. Other20 people are totally fine with them. So I21 think it really behooves the City to22 engage some of the wildlife23 rehabilitators who we've heard here today24 in being able to do some public25 87 10/25/11-PUBLIC HEALTH-BILLS 110552 & 1105651 programming just to teach local2 residents. 3 There were a lot of complaints about4 raccoons, so some wildlife rehabbers got5 together and spoke to the residents -- at6 that time, I was in the Germantown7 area -- and had discussions with the8 local people there, and people got to9 learn about this. And I actually myself10 have talked to a lot of residents, just11 what do we do when we see this raccoon,12 and, Oh, it's really scary. And a lot of13 them don't know that the animals are14 generally more afraid of them than they15 are -- than we are -- let's see. The16 animals are more afraid of them than we17 are of them. 19 So I'm not going to go on much20 more, but I do want to advocate for these21 animals, because they are part of the22 landscape of the City. They've been here23 for many, many years. Many times there24 are people hanging out, not realizing25 88 10/25/11-PUBLIC HEALTH-BILLS 110552 & 1105651 that there's a little animal just within2 a short distance of them. They mean no3 harm to the people, even if you see them4 walking around. They're not harmful. So5 I think it's important, because these are6 actually the wildlife that are around to7 like really have like a taste of nature8 and to understand that these animals9 are -- they're here. They're part of the10 landscape. 12 At least in Pittsburgh it13 didn't help. They went through this14 whole process. 17 One other really helpful18 resource, because I do believe the same19 problem that you feel you're having with20 raccoons is the same thing you'll hear21 about for furrow cats. So there's a22 group called Alley Cat Allies. They have23 a website as well, and they have a lot of24 information there about what's called the25 89 10/25/11-PUBLIC HEALTH-BILLS 110552 & 1105651 "vacuum effect," which I'm sure other2 people spoke about. When you do take out3 the animals, then they just repopulate4 because the sources are there. 10 Deb Welter is another great11 local rehabber. She answers calls all12 the time. 16 So I think public education is17 key. And I think that what I see in the18 streets of Philadelphia is no different19 today than it was ten years ago. 21 There's not any huge increase. 24
Thank you25 90 10/25/11-PUBLIC HEALTH-BILLS 110552 & 1105651 very much.2 Is there anyone else here to3 testify on this bill?4 (No response.)5
Thank you.6 There being no further7 witnesses, we will close this public8 hearing and go into our public meeting.9 We do have an amendment that10 has been offered for this bill, and the11 Chair recognizes Councilwoman Brown to12 submit the amendment for adoption.13
Madam14 Chairwoman, I move that Bill No. 11056515 be amended.16 (Duly seconded.)17
It has18 been moved and seconded that Bill No.19 110565 be amended.20 All in favor will say aye.21 (Aye.)22
Is there23 any opposition?24 (No response.)25 91 10/25/11-PUBLIC HEALTH-BILLS 110552 & 1105651
There2 being none, the motion is accepted.3 The Chair recognizes4 Councilwoman Blondell Reynolds Brown to5 move Bill 110552 out of -- I'm sorry; to6 move Bill 110565, as amended, out of7 Committee.8
Surely.9 Madam Chairwoman, I move that Bill No.10 110565, as amended, be reported out of11 Committee with a favorable12 recommendation.13 Rules suspension?14
It has18 been moved and seconded that Bill 11056519 be reported out of Committee, as amended,20 with a favorable recommendation and that21 the rules of Council be suspended so this22 bill can be heard at Council's next23 session.24 All in favor will say aye.25 92 10/25/11-PUBLIC HEALTH-BILLS 110552 & 1105651 (Aye.)2
The motion6 is carried. Thank you.7 The Chair recognizes8 Councilwoman Brown to move the9 amendment -- the first bill we called up10 we had no witnesses. I understand11 there's someone who wants to testify on12 Bill 110552. Would you come forward,13 please.14 I'm sorry. We have to go back15 into the public hearing so you can16 testify.17 (Witness approached witness18 table.)19
Good afternoon.20 Hard act to follow. I can't beat them,21 raccoons.22 My concern is the smoking. I23 have to have smoking in my bar. My24 business has dropped so bad that I'm25 93 10/25/11-PUBLIC HEALTH-BILLS 110552 & 1105651 going to have to close up. I mean, I2 have no food in my place and I have --3
Would you4 identify yourself, please, for the5 record.6
7th and Oregon.13 I have the bar. In 1996, we applied for14 it. We never got anything. We applied15 again. We never got anything.16
Yes, we did.19 And when I called them, they said, Well,20 if you don't get it in the mail, just do21 what you're doing until you get it, and22 that's what I did. I made them smoke.23 And, of course, I got fined. The first24 time they came in, they caught us, and we25 94 10/25/11-PUBLIC HEALTH-BILLS 110552 & 1105651 got fined.2 But I just don't think it's3 fair that they shouldn't be able to smoke4 in my building. There is no food5 whatsoever being sold in the building,6 other than potato chips and stuff like7 that. But this has got to -- I have to8 get this accepted. I have to do this or9 I have to close up. I mean, I need a10 waiver or something.11
Okay.19 Thank you.20 Thank you very much. This21 ordinance was introduced by Councilwoman22 Verna and it calls for providing for time23 for you to obtain a waiver provision of24 the bill to permit smoking. So we're25 95 10/25/11-PUBLIC HEALTH-BILLS 110552 & 1105651 going to move that out of Committee.2 Thank you.3 That ends our public hearing on4 this Bill 110552. We'll go back into the5 public meeting, and I ask Councilwoman6 Brown to move to accept the amendment to7 Bill 110552.8
Madam9 Chairwoman, I move that Bill No. 11055210 be amended.11 (Duly seconded.)12
It has19 been moved and seconded that Bill 11055220 be amended.21 There being no opposition, the22 motion is carried.23 The Chair recognizes24 Councilwoman Brown to move Bill 11055225 96 10/25/11-PUBLIC HEALTH-BILLS 110552 & 1105651 out of Committee as amended, with a2 suspension of the rules.3
Madam4 Chairwoman, I move that Bill No. 1105525 be reported out of this Committee with a6 favorable recommendation and further move7 that the rules of Council be suspended so8 as to permit first reading at the next9 scheduled session.10 (Duly seconded.)11
It has12 been moved and seconded that Bill 110552,13 as amended, be reported out of Committee14 with a favorable recommendation and that15 the rules of Council be suspended so this16 bill can be heard at Council's next17 session.18 All in favor will say aye.19 (Aye.)20
There24 being none, the motion is carried.25 97 10/25/11-PUBLIC HEALTH-BILLS 110552 & 1105651 There being no other business2 before this Committee, the Committee is3 adjourned.4 Thank you.5 (Committee on Public Health and6 Human Services adjourned at 2:40 p.m.)7 - - -8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 98 1 CERTIFICATE2 I HEREBY CERTIFY that the3 proceedings, evidence and objections are4 contained fully and accurately in the5 stenographic notes taken by me upon the6 foregoing matter on October 25, 2011, and that7 this is a true and correct transcript of same.8 9 10 11 12 --------------------13 MICHELE L. MURPHY14 RPR-Notary Public15 16 17 18 (The foregoing certification of this19 transcript does not apply to any reproduction20 of the same by any means, unless under the21 direct control and/or supervision of the22 certifying reporter.)23 24 25