Committee Hearing, October 12, 2004

COUNCIL OF THE CITY OF PHILADELPHIA PUBLIC HEARING COMMITTEE ON LICENSES AND INSPECTIONS - - - - Room 400, City Hall Philadelphia, Pennsylvania Tuesday, October 12, 2004 2:05 p.m. - - - - BILL 040595 - An Ordinance amending Title 9 of The Philadelphia Code ("Regulation of Businesses, Trades and Professions") by amending Section 9-605 ("Towing") to prohibit certain towing upon the establishment of a rotational towing system; to define the parameters of the rotational system; and to make certain technical changes; all under certain terms and conditions. PRESENT: COUNCILMAN RICHARD MARIANO, Chair COUNCIL PRESIDENT ANNA VERNA COUNCILMAN FRANK RIZZO COUNCILMAN JACK KELLY COUNCILMAN JUAN RAMOS COUNCILMAN DARRELL CLARKE COUNCILWOMAN BLONDELL REYNOLDS BROWN - - - - V A R A L L O Incorporated Litigation Support Services Eleven Penn Center 1835 Market Street, Suite 600 Philadelphia, Pennsylvania 19103 215.561.2220 215.567.2670 I N D E X BILL 040595 FRANCIS HEALY, Police Dept.......... THOMAS NESTELL, Police Dept.......... 8 RICHARD FEDER, Law Dept.............. 12 LINDA SOLTYSIAK...................... 27 JENNIFER SOLTYSIAK................... 30 DOMINIC RAGGUCI...................... 45 ARTHUR KULIS......................... 48 RALPH SPOSATO........................ 59 CHARLES NYGRD........................ 60 JOHN DOUBMAN, Insurance Federation... 65 ART LENKE, AAA Mid-Atlantic.......... 73 BYRON SOLVENSON, Enterprise.......... 78 JOHN MATTIONI........................ 83 ANTHONY DICASTLENUOVA................ 100 JOSEPH DICASTLENUOVA................. 144 JOSEPH DITILLO...................... 150 ED ALFANO............................ 152 ANTHONY BOYLE........................ 158 JOSEPH TRENT......................... 162 RICHARD ANTONOCCI.................... 164 JOSEPH PARENTE....................... 165 GUIDO DICICCO........................ 166 JOSE LATORE.......................... 173 DAVID WIECKOWSKI..................... 179 ALBERO PENA.......................... 184 ARNOLD WHITE......................... 185 3 10/12/04 - L&I - BILL 040595

The public meeting of the Committee on Licenses and Inspections is now open. I have to my left Councilman Rizzo, Councilman Clarke Councilwoman Blondell Reynolds Brown, myself Councilman Mariano, and Councilwoman Verna is also present, so we have a quorum. Will the Clerk read the title of Bill No. 040595?

Bill 040595, an Ordinance amending Title 9 of The Philadelphia Code ("Regulation of Businesses, Trades and Professions") by amending Section 9-605 ("Towing") to prohibit certain towing upon the establishment of a rotational towing system; to define the parameters of the rotational system; and to make certain technical changes; all under certain terms and conditions.

Thank you. The first panel we're going to have is Francis Healy, Staff Inspector Thomas Nestell, and Richie Feder from the Law Department.

Good afternoon, Councilman Mariano and Members of the 4 10/12/04 - L&I - BILL 040595 Committee on Licenses and Inspections. My name is Francis Healy, I'm to represent Commissioner Johnson of the Police Department and I'm here along with newly promoted Staff Inspector Thomas Nestell. First, Commissioner Johnson would like to extend his gratitude for allowing the Police Department to express its opinion on this significant legislation. These amendments will dramatically impact upon the safety of motorist and pedestrians as well as the manner in which towing services are made available to disabled motorists throughout the City of Philadelphia. As you well know, the primary objective of the Philadelphia Police Department is to protect life and property. However, for many years dangerous conditions have existed on our roadways that the Police Department has been powerless to completely control or eliminate. This hazardous practice is better known as wreck-chasing. Quite simply, the tow truck or towing company on the scene of an accident or a disabled vehicle 5 10/12/04 - L&I - BILL 040595 usually got the job. Not unexpectedly, this leads to multiple towers racing to be first in time to many accident sites. While the Police Department currently does cite towers who drive carelessly and recklessly, the profit motive far outweighs the risk. Herein lies the dangers to motorist and the pedestrians alike. When livelihoods depends upon the first to reach an accident, caution and often common sense seem to disappear, disregarding lights, stop signs, illegal turns, jumping medians and speeding have regrettably become the norm rather than the exceptions for many of the tow operators in Philadelphia. As the law of unintended consequences would have it, the current towing laws had actually created and facilitated this very hazard I've identified. For there is no 21 logical or systematic method to assign accidents to specific towers. Hence, the towers are left to fend for themselves and literally scramble for any and all available work. 6 10/12/04 - L&I - BILL 040595 One would argue that this is the very essence of out capitalistic economic and the government should refrain from any further interference. The Police Department would wholehearted agree in theory, except for the fact that the current system is placing towers and the unsuspecting public in imminent and very real danger each and every day. Thus, it is our firm belief that in the scenario it is the government's duty to intervene to protect its citizens. The amendments to 9-605 creating a rotational towing system does just that. Simply stated, only those towers assigned to an accident or disabled vehicle would be legally able to accept the job. Regardless of who else may show up, only one tower can get the job. No need to race or run lights. The profit motive behind such hazardous behavior will be eliminated, hence, the danger will no 22 longer an exist. New York City has also recognized the dangers inherent in the first-come-first-served towing system and has 7 10/12/04 - L&I - BILL 040595 already experienced many of the problems that Philadelphia is now encountering. They too experience a wreck-chasing problem. However, they have implemented a rotational tow system similar to the amendments proposed here today and they have effectively eliminated their risks. For this reason alone, the Police Department fully support the amendments to Section 9-605 creating the rotational tow system here in Philadelphia. On a side note, while the Department's objectives are firmly grounded in safety, we also recognize and support the consumer protections afforded in this legislation as well. As you know, there has been many horror stories of price gouging or unethical business practices among certain towers. Under the current statute, it may very well be illegal for the City to regulate pricing in voluntary transactions between the motorists and the towers.

However, under the new system, the tows provided will be mandatory in nature, and accordingly, the government would be capable to regulate both 8 10/12/04 - L&I - BILL 040595 towing and storage fees. While this is not our primary reason to support this legislation, the Police Department believes that these building consumer protection provisions would better serve those people who suddenly find themselves in a distressed and stranded situation. This will conclude our testimony. And once again, I thank you on behalf of the Police Commissioner for allowing us the opportunity to express this opinion. Myself and Staff Inspector Nestell will be available for any questions.

Go ahead, Councilman.

When Captain Nestell was the commanding officer of Highway Patrol, he had a personal encounter that I'd like him to -- would you pull that microphone. He was in a police vehicle, and go from there Staff Inspector Nestell.

Thank you, Councilman. I can tell you there are numerous stories. I know that the story you're referring to. I 9 10/12/04 - L&I - BILL 040595 was responding to an auto accident on the Schuylkill Expressway. Prior to approaching that accident scene, I observed a tow truck driving the wrong way on the expressway to get to that accident scene first. I think that Sergeant Healy talks about the public safety issue and the business of wreck-chasing. The first person that gets to that scene of the accident historically ends up receiving the contract for the repairs and the removal. The incentive for the tow truck driver is so astronomical that they're willing to take -- some people are willing to take chances in getting to that scene first. I can tell you that I have personally issued citations to tow truck drivers that I've seen disregard red lights, that I have seen driving in excess of 80 miles an hour, that I have seen driving on the shoulder of the highway when traffic is stopped because of an accident ahead. And this is an issue that is a recipe for disaster.

Thank you. 10 10/12/04 - L&I - BILL 040595 Inspector, did you give that guy a ticket?

I did.

Is that man here day without pointing to that person?

No. As a matter of fact, I looked through the crowd. I am familiar with some of the less reputable drivers, and I did not see any of them in the hall.

A lot guys here could probably be out making money and are sitting in here watching this. We're not trying to do anything to hurt blue collar people like this who are trying to feed their families. This isn't on you.

And I would argue that they're the ones being hurt by the system that exist because the tow truck drivers that are willing to break the law are the ones that are going to get here first and get the job. So these gentlemen are not getting a fair shot at the business in Philadelphia and we're unable to control this. 11 10/12/04 - L&I - BILL 040595

The vibe I'm getting -- let's get right to the crux of it. It's going to go to Richie Feder next. These guys are trying to make a living. They're not selling drugs, they're not on welfare, they're not stealing cars. Maybe some of them have done some of that stuff; I hope not, but it's quite possible they reformed themselves and they're here. I'm just looking around the crowd now and I don't know any of them that might have done that. One possibility, but I won't look at him. No, I'm just teasing. You know what I'm saying? At the risk of sounding like George Bush, are we going to over-regulate these people so they can't make a living? The last thing I want to sound like is a conservative Republican and I'm really a liberal Democrat. But I do not want these guys and ladies -- there's a couple ladies in the crowd. This is how they feed their family. I didn't look at this close enough yet. I met with their attorney. He asked me 12 10/12/04 - L&I - BILL 040595 to look at it. My legislative guy knows more about it than me. And I know you're a good guy. You have a great reputation as a policeman, same there, and a lawyer here. But has there been any input from this group or their parent organization? Are we just thrusting something at these guys? Does anybody know that? Mr. Feder, could you answer that? Did we meet with any of guys?

I wasn't involved in putting together the legislation, Councilman.

Councilman, did we meet with any of these towers or wreck-chasers?

The purpose of this hearing today is to meet and discuss the issue.

Okay. Go ahead.

Mr. Chairman, Members of the Committee, my name is Richie Feder. I'm the Chief Deputy Solicitor for Appeals and Legislation in the Law Department. Councilman 13 10/12/04 - L&I - BILL 040595 Rizzo asked me to come and just give a brief overview of the technical ordinance and then respond to one legal issue that's looking --

Rich, to clarify this for everybody, this is an administrative bill that the Councilman introduced and I co-signed with him? Or was this written for somebody?

This is an Administration ordinance.

It just came from your boss?

This is sponsored by the Police Department, L&I and the Mayor.

Did the Mayor call somebody one day and said, "Let's do this," because he forgot to call me on it.

I don't know the specific origins, but I know the Mayor sent this over as an Administration ordinance.

Sergeant, do you send it to Richie? Richie is the technical guy and he has to --

I believe it is the 14 10/12/04 - L&I - BILL 040595 result of current lawsuits that are pending against the Police Department this legislation was drafted.

This pains me to do this kind of stuff. There's no sense of even coming here. We're going to have this hearing, but I got to know, who is the genius that thought of this? I mean, was it Tom Ferrick from the Inquirer? Because I know he's here and it's an issue that has been -- and I'm not saying it's right or wrong. Maybe it's good that we hear this all out because I think that's what Councilman Rizzo thinks. But does anybody at this front table here know who -- when the light bulb went off, who was responsible for this? Was there somebody? I'd like to know.

I don't think any of us knows who's responsible. I suspect the answer is there isn't one person. I think it's, as Sergeant Healy testified, this is a practice that already existed in New York City and it's a proven method of both responding to the wreck chasing that Sergeant Healy and Staff 15 10/12/04 - L&I - BILL 040595 Inspector Nestell testified to and responding to the legal concerns that are raised in a separate lawsuit.

So if this gets favorably recommended out of Committee today and it goes to the Council and becomes a law, even without all these people's -- without their input, they're going to obviously do something. Maybe we can save the City a lot of money for legal expenses. I did a bill I'm thinking of that said you couldn't hang signs on poles, and I thought it was harmless. I was just tired of looking at weight loss bills because it makes me remember how fat I'm getting. That was part of it. But we passed that. The Law Department writes it for me. Another Councilman doesn't like. He challenges it. It goes in, people sign on, and all of a sudden it's not a bill. Then that just goes away. But nobody in the Law Department -- that was my idea to do that. It wasn't you, Rich. Somebody wrote that and I thought that the Law Department writes a bill, geez, that's 16 10/12/04 - L&I - BILL 040595 the gospel to me. God didn't want me to go to law school so that's why you did.

I'm familiar with that bill, Council. I continue to think the bill 6 is lawful, and we're working on amendments to help respond to the concerns of the day.

In your legal opinion -- I'm not putting you on the spot, but you're the big guy here that they sent here, so your boss definitely likes you. This will pass Constitutional mustard?

This towing bill?

Yes.

Yes, sir.

Because it passed in New York?

Yes, sir.

How many other cities?

I'm not familiar with any others. But the United States Court of Appeals for the 2nd Circuit in New York approved an ordinance that was very similar to this upon the grounds that -- 17 10/12/04 - L&I - BILL 040595

All right. Thank you. Councilman Rizzo.

Mr. Feder, Counselor, could you please explain this ordinance?

Certainly, Councilman. In a nutshell -- and Sergeant Healy has already pretty much covered the details. But what this bill does, it authorizes the Police Department to establish what's called a rotational system. And what that rotational system would be is that the Police Department would invite eligible towers who meet certain criteria to be on a list. And then the tower that's at the top of a list would get called if in the event of an accident or a disabled vehicle was blocking the highway or is on the shoulder of the Schuylkill where you can't have a vehicle sitting for safety reasons. What this bill does is it explicitly prohibits any other tower from responding to that call or from towing that car other than the tower who is at the top of the list. Once that 18 10/12/04 - L&I - BILL 040595 tower is called, he moves to the bottom of the list. The next accident comes, the next guy on the list gets called, thus the rotational system.

And that would be just the Schuylkill Expressway and 95? What if it happens like on Summerdale Avenue?

Anywhere in the City where a car is blocking the highway or blocking the street, impeding traffic. If a car is parked, it wouldn't cover that if it's not blocking traffic. But if it's on the shoulder of the expressway or in the middle of Summerdale Avenue --

So if Councilwoman Reynolds and I decide to go into this business tomorrow because it's much more profitable than what we do -- because it will probably work out real good; she's a minority, she can run the company, I'll work for her, I'll drive the tow truck, she'll write all the checks. Now, we don't know nothing about towing except for maybe when I drove a tow truck for about two months when I got out of 19 10/12/04 - L&I - BILL 040595 high school and smashed up about three cars probably. But if we do that and we don't know anything about towing but get on the list and we get on this thing and we can get in the rotation like some of the guys that's been around here doing this? Because I think there's a fear here. And we're going to find it out when they speak. I want this to see the light of day, but I just want to make sure they're being included, because I got a feeling they're not.

With respect to you, Councilman and Councilwoman Reynolds Brown, I have a feeling that the tow truck company you just described would not meet the eligibility standards that the Police Department will be setting up. There will be standards.

Correct.

The standards that they have to do anyhow, these guys, right? Would it be a run all of a sudden on who wants to do this now if this happens? Will we get a thousand more guys from out of 20 10/12/04 - L&I - BILL 040595 town that are going to come in here and start doing this? And then I won't know any of these guys' faces. It will be like a big conglomerate someday, one big tow company or five big tow companies that fix the bids between the five of them? Will that happen?

I don't believe so. We have a system in place now that's been working very effectively very similar to this, and we use it for the stolen auto program.

With Eddie Alfano and them guys, right?

We have a rotational system there in recovering stolen autos.

Is that the same with the trucks with Judge Perry and Eddie Alfano? Is that what we're talking about?

And numerous other towers on the wheel. That's how we envision it to be working. And it does work effectively in that some of the requirements for the towers would be they have time limitation, be able to get to a certain area, 21 10/12/04 - L&I - BILL 040595 a whole bunch of City requirements, insurance requirements such that would require them to meet before they would be eligible on this wheel.

What measures or assurances are in place to ensure equity across the board for participating tow trucks?

Well --

Equity in opportunity, that it is indeed a rotation.

I believe, much like stolen auto program, the City is divvied up in geographic locations. If there's 300 towers, you're not going to be -- the next call will not be 300 tows away. I don't believe that's how it's going to be operated efficiently. I mean, it's going to have to be broken down geographically so responding towers can get there within a reasonable period of time. I think carving the City up in certain locales does make it much more equitable. So those towers in those areas would have more opportunity.

Sergeant, isn't 22 10/12/04 - L&I - BILL 040595 everyone going to want the one where the expressway is? If I was going to pick one of these, it would be where the expressway goes into Ridge Avenue up there, you know where the accidents are anyway. Or we can go anywhere on 95 and watch everybody with Jersey tags do 150 miles an hour anyway while I'm doing 60 and people are passing me. Who gets those?

Could I make a point?

Could you answer my question first, though? Who gets the price locations? Will there be a lottery?

I don't think locations, per se, will be given out, but it will just be rotational. If you're in that geographic area and I believe you put yourself into that geographic area, you'll be on the wheel for whatever pops up at that location.

Will there be areas that nobody will want to do because historically there's not a lot of accidents somewhere, maybe down Richmond Street because there's no accidents? 23 10/12/04 - L&I - BILL 040595

Not necessarily accidents, but this also covers disabled vehicles that are blocking the highway and stuff like that so... The Police Department perspective on this is not in any way to limit or inhibit business. What we're trying to do is just, like I had mentioned in my testimony is, we believe in free trade and everything should go without government interference in a perfect society.

Now you sound like George Bush.

In this situation, we obviously see the risk to not only the towers themselves, but the unsuspecting public. That's the only reason why we're asking the government to intervene in this area. And we're trying to do it the best way possible through the rotation to guarantee that equity-based system.

Councilman.

I just wanted to make sure, as the hearing progresses -- this 24 10/12/04 - L&I - BILL 040595 room is full of people. In fairness, there are people in this room that are opposed to rotational towing, and there are people here that are in favor of it. So you're going to hear from both sides. I don't want you to suggest that everybody in this room is opposed to rotational towing.

No, I don't think that. But nobody that's in favor of this called me or talked to me or stopped in my office. It's always the people that are against. I've got to think there's something important if people like this come down here at 2:25 in the afternoon and sit here for 40 minutes until four or five of us decide to show up. It's pretty embarrassing actually. I'm sorry, you've got another question, Councilman?

No, I'm fine.

If I could just complete the overview. Once the City has established the system and prohibited anybody other than the designated tower next on the list from 25 10/12/04 - L&I - BILL 040595 completing that particular tow, the City is then authorized to establish a fee schedule which Sergeant Healy talked about would be an incidental benefit of this in order to eliminate some of the price gouging stories that sometimes we hear about. Finally, I want to touch on the preemption issue that you're going to hear about. There is surprisingly federal law on the question. And the United States Congress has preempted local governments from regulating the pricing of consensual tows, tows that you and a tower voluntarily enter into. The federal government, however, has explicitly allowed local governments to regulate in the area of safety and also with respect to the pricing of non-consensual tows. And as you heard from Sergeant Healy, the primary purpose of this ordinance is to prevent wreck-chasing stories that Staff Inspector Nestell talked about. And so City Council clearly, in my view, has the power to create a rotational system in order to protect the safety of motorists on the highway, on 10/12/04 - L&I - BILL 040595 City streets. And then because the tow then becomes non-consensual, you as the owner of a disabled vehicle, you have no choice but to accept a tow from this particular tower. We, therefore, have the right to set pricing. And the logic of that obviously is to avoid the unbelievable price gouging that would occur if you only could take it from one tower. And so Congress has again given us the right to do that. And that's exactly what the federal court in New York ruled on. Although you're going to hear some arguments later that we are preempted, it's the Law Department's judgement that we're not and we are prepared to defend this ordinance and believe it would be upheld in federal court.

Let me ask you a legal question as a City attorney. When we have hearings here and there's an appeal to an ordinance and they use this transcript here, as an attorney, like a zoning case, are you presenting your case here so everything has to be in line like a zoning hearing when appealed after that? 27 10/12/04 - L&I - BILL 040595

I don't think there's any requirement for us to do this in terms of the law. I think it's more to satisfy the Councilmembers because you're going to hear differing legal points of view, and you need to understand that there is a very strong legal basis of this ordinance. That's the purpose of it.

Thank you. Next panel, citizens victims panel. Jennifer Soltysiak, Linda, and Bill Hodges (sic). You want the ladies to go first?

The ladies can go first, but may I make a correction?

Sure.

My name William Lodge, L-O-D-G-E, for the record.

Thank you. And, Ladies, say your name. I know I slaughtered it. Say your name for the record, whoever wants to go first.

Linda Soltysiak. 28 10/12/04 - L&I - BILL 040595 On the evening of November 5, 2003, I received a call from my daughter Jennifer stating that she had been in a car accident and would need a ride home. When I arrived at the accident, there were already two tow trucks there. One of the tow truck drivers was talking with my daughter and wanted to tow her car. I told him that we were members of AAA and that we would have to give them a call first. The driver said that he was a member of AAA and could start hooking up the car. He was very nice, and it would have been easy to believe him. I told him to wait and Jen would make the phone call. At this point, Jen was involved talking to the police and thought it would be easier if I made the call for the tow truck. I was talking to AAA and mentioned to the dispatcher the tow truck driver. The dispatcher told me not to get involved. They would put the call through and if he was a member of AAA, he would receive the call within a few minutes. When I hung up with the 29 10/12/04 - L&I - BILL 040595 dispatcher, got out of my car, the tow truck driver was gone. AAA towed Jennifer's car to our house. I suggested to the driver that he drop the car off on Magee Street on the corner. This would make it easier for him to unhook the car and also for the next driver on the following day to make the pickup. The car was legally parked and parked diagonally across the street visible from our front door. The next day sometime in the morning, a different tow truck driver knocked on my door of our house and asked to speak to Jennifer. I told him that she was on the phone could I help him. Jen was on the phone, but sitting on the couch near the front door and heard the conversation. The driver said he noticed that she had an accident and knew that she wasn't covered for collision on her insurance and wanted to tow her truck and have it fixed. My first thought was how this person knew my daughter's name and address and that she didn't have insurance to get her car fixed. This gave me a very uneasy feeling. I 30 10/12/04 - L&I - BILL 040595 asked him where he got his information. He told me he got it from the police report. I told him that Jennifer was looking to getting the car fixed. He offered to give an estimate for repairs. While he was doing this, Jen and I both agreed it was pretty creepy and pretty upsetting, first that he knew where she lived, insurance information, and he was going to give an estimate without looking at the engine and putting the car on the lift. The driver returned with a rough estimate and said that it might cost more if he wasn't able to tell if there was motor damage. I asked him to write down his quote on something with his name and phone number on it. He wrote the information down on his business card. I took the card, thanked him and said Jennifer needed time to think about what she was going to do. Thank you.

Jennifer, you want to speak?

I was 31 10/12/04 - L&I - BILL 040595 involved in a somewhat minor car accident on the evening of November 5, 2003, at the intersection Aramingo Ave. and Tacony Street. Shortly after pulling off to the side of the road with the driver of the other vehicle, tow trucks began to stop and drivers began to try to gain my business. They were very nice to me. One gentleman even held an umbrella over me to shield me from the rain. In attempts to persuade me to use their service, one driver claimed he was AAA. However, when my mom called AAA for me, he was not the dispatched truck and left the scene after the call was placed. Even though there were a few different tow trucks at the scene trying to promote their company, they were, for the most part, respectful of my decision to have AAA come and tow my car to my house until I figured out what I was going to do with it. I was given a few business cards, and that was the end of it. The real concern I have is tow truck drivers using questionable practices to gain 32 10/12/04 - L&I - BILL 040595 customers was an incident that happened the next day. The morning of November 6th, I noticed a tow truck parked behind my car which was parked diagonally from the corner of my block and not directly in front of my home on 6554 Cottage Street. I didn't think anything of it until later on that day I saw the same tow truck parked out in front of my home and the driver coming up to knock at my door. My mom answered the door and I was sitting near enough to the door to hear everything that was said. The driver asked for me by first and last name and was trying to gain me as a customer to his shop by giving me a quote for repairs on my car. He stated that he knew the limits of my insurance coverage, and when asked, claimed that he got information from the police report of the accident the night before. He offered to tow my car right then to his shop. And after we said "no thank you," he handed my mom his quote on the back of his business card. After he left my front step, I 33 10/12/04 - L&I - BILL 040595 called the 15th Police District which is where the accident took place to ask them about their practices regarding giving out information collected at an accident scene. The officer on the phone assured me that they do not give out information to tow truck companies and I could fill out a statement if I wished by calling 911 or by stopping by the station. I did not feel that this warranted an emergency phone call, but I had no way to get down to the station to fill out the report in person. Sometime in January I was pulled over on I Street right by where I work and was surprised when the officer asked me if I knew why my car was listed as abandoned. I jokingly said it couldn't be abandoned if I was driving it, but the officer was serious. He asked if I had left my car parked for a length of time back in November with damage from an accident. m. m. the following day. It was then I realized that the tow truck driver that knocked on my door had ran my tags by listing my car abandoned and then used information to dupe me into thinking his shop was somehow specially tied with the Police Department and offering me the convenience of towing it right then. I tried to contact the Abandoned Car Division of the Police Department about getting my car off the list but have not yet been able reach anyone who can tell me that it has been removed. It wasn't that the tow trucks that showed up at the accident scene that bothered me. They saw an opportunity to gain a customer and politely gave me their card if I decided to use their shop. The most disturbing part was that some random tow truck driver was able to get my personal information about me from my tags and came to knock at my door. If he had been a rapist or a murderer, he would have had access to all the same 35 10/12/04 - L&I - BILL 040595 information just because he drove a tow truck.

Thank you. I just want to say Councilman Ramos has joined us a couple minutes ago; I just forgot to tell you. Sir.

My name is William Lodge. I was involved in a motor vehicle accident on March 12th, Friday night, at 9 p.m. this year. It was located at the intersection of North 16th Street in the Broad Street off ramp of the Roosevelt Expressway. I was not as lucky as the two ladies who are sitting next to me. I was injured in the course of the accident and stuck in the car. I was approached by a tow truck driver who I happened to know. He used to be a Philadelphia Police Officer and he was discharged from his employment so he obviously needed something to do for a living so I guess he decided on being a tow truck driver. He approached my vehicle. I didn't quite recognize him at first. He says, "Oh -- he 36 10/12/04 - L&I - BILL 040595 mentioned his name. His name was Akeel (ph). He said to me, "I'll take care of you." I was in a lot of pain. I was waiting for the police and the EMS rescue squad to show up. So I pull out my keys and I said, "Could you take my car here? That's the name of an auto body shop, Len's Auto Body up on Cottman Avenue, which I've done business with before and he's extremely reputable. "Oh, no, I can't take it there. I'll take care of you," he said. He hands me a blank piece of paper, he gives me his cell phone number. And you really can't defend yourself or argue when you're getting hustled out of the car by the rescue EMS personnel and getting put on a stretcher and getting taken away. What struck me most was the fact that someone -- when the other tow truck drivers walked over to the EMS and said to me, "Oh, don't use him. He's going to charge you hundreds of dollars to get your car back." He said, "Call AAA." Well, you can't really do anything 37 10/12/04 - L&I - BILL 040595 when you're getting hauled off to the emergency room. I was in Einstein approximately all that night and the majority of Saturday. I contacted him by phone, and he had towed my car over to Rising Sun and Eleanor which looked like a bunch of abandoned garages with numerous tow trucks parked around and it looked like they got last night's haul over there. My car was there and there were several other vehicles that were obviously involved in recent accidents. And he eventually towed my car to a body shop on Aramingo and James Street. I contacted Len's after I got myself together. I had bruised ribs, I had back injuries and a knee injury. And I spoke to Len and I said, "I got to get car up here to you because I don't trust these guys. They seem to be, in my opinion, slightly dishonest in the way they did business." I didn't care too much the way did the business. So I contacted Akeel and his tow truck outfit, Philadelphia's Finest. And I asked him how much would it cost to get my car 38 10/12/04 - L&I - BILL 040595 out of there, I'm going to send a tow truck down from Len's to get my car and how much would it cost. Well, they hemmed and hawed. It took about an hour and a half. The bill 6 came out to $460 which my insurance company was forced to pay. I feel sorry for the people who don't have coverage or an understanding adjuster who knows just the way business is conducted in Philadelphia among some of the more disreputable tow truck drivers. $460 for a tow from basically Broad Street to Aramingo and James. On the bill they had there that he charged a fee for waiting for the scene to be cleared by the Accident Investigation Division of the Police Department. I think that was $80. I think he also stuck in a fee in there for cleaning up the scene of the accident. I felt like I was a victim. I felt like I was ripped off. And I'll be honest with you, I think -- who speaks for the people who are involved in an accident that can't speak or are semiconscious. Or if I would have left my car there, it's a high-crime 39 10/12/04 - L&I - BILL 040595 area, it's two blocks from my home. It would have either got stripped or maybe a renegade tow truck would have picked it up and took it for parts. That's the end of my testimony, sir.

Thank you. Any questions for these witnesses? Councilwoman Brown.

In no way to be presumptuous having heard your testimony, what is your recommendation on this bill?

I'm not sure about how to handle who gets to the scene. But how they try to convince people they're going to take care of them, like the guy that came to my house tried to make me think that he was with the Police Department and like knocked on my door asking with my name. My car wasn't parked in front of my house, so he wouldn't have known that was my car. He shouldn't be able to do that. The guys who came to the scene when I was in the accident, like I had gotten in an accident actually across the street from a shop. They 40 10/12/04 - L&I - BILL 040595 weren't one of the tow trucks that came, but they were nice guys that came. They were just trying to get business, which I can understand. They were, for the most part, polite. But the way they get information. And then now when I get pulled over, I get told my car is abandoned, and that is a problem. That's hard to fix.

That's an incredible story.

I feel the same way. The rotation seems like it would cut down on accidents. Getting to and from the scene is important. But for a driver to get this kind of information, it's a violation of privacy. I feel violated.

Did you report that to the 15?

When I called to ask if they give the information from the police report out, they said I could call 911 to fill out a report or come down to the station, but my car wasn't working and I didn't feel it was that big of an emergency to 41 10/12/04 - L&I - BILL 040595 call 911 for. But I still have his card, actually, that he gave me.

Could Councilman Rizzo see that card?

Could you tell me, have you resolved the issue of your vehicle being listed as abandoned? Because if that is still on there, we'd like to address that issue.

I haven't heard that it's off the list yet.

Mr. Vogler will speak to you after you testify and will be more than happy to check to make sure that that is taken care of. I hope Staff Inspector Nestell and Sergeant Healy will also make sure that it's appropriately removed from the database.

Thank you.

Could we hear from you, sir?

Yes, ma'am. I personally feel that the police on the scene should be in charge the accident. 42 10/12/04 - L&I - BILL 040595 If there's need for emergency medical service brought in, the officer would call for a medic unit. If there's a need for a tow truck, the officer should be able to contact police radio and have a tow truck dispatched to the scene or contacted to the scene. I'm a private citizen, but I'm also an employee of the Police Department. And police radio -- done a great job now. We have -- if a car is stolen and recovered, they call for a tow truck, so it doesn't get stolen from before, off a list. We're doing a great job with Live Stop. They have tow trucks available from the Parking Authority for that matter. The officers from the Neighborhood Services Unit, they have contracted lists of salvers that they contact to come in. There's no rush to the scene to get the abandoned auto. It's done in an orderly fashion from people who appear to be reputable unless there's complaints made. So this would be just taking that, in my opinion, a step further. The officer on the scene contacts the salver of the day or the month or the 43 10/12/04 - L&I - BILL 040595 salver for the division or the district or whatever, however we break it down.

So having the Police Department as a single part of contact, in your view, adds some level of sanity to the process and the circumstances taking place?

I agree with that 100 percent. Because the guy could have made a hundred bucks probably towing my car to this particular auto body place from the accident I was. Instead, I got the hustle.

I thank you for your testimony.

I just wanted for the record, this business card was presented to you at your home?

Uh-huh.

And on the back, this note --

That's the quote the guy gave me for my car.

For the record, I want to read this, not just the quote, but it says "Cash, total 3,200." 44 10/12/04 - L&I - BILL 040595 I think the Internal Revenue Service would love to see this.

I wound up actually paying 4,000 for it to get fixed at the dealer, so I wind up getting screwed anyway but not by the tow truck driver.

One of the issues that's been pointed out and we'll probably hear more about this, that many of the hustles to fix the vehicle, the repairs are substandard. They use after-market parts instead of the parts that are meant to be on the vehicle. The steel is thinner. They're just not the quality that you expect. And then months later, the vehicle starts to deteriorate as a result of these repairs. But we'll be hearing more about that. I just wanted to, for the record -- not suggesting that the person said cash $3200 wouldn't report that cash, but there's a chance that that may not have occurred. But I think that probably it would have been reported. Next panel, Mr. Chairman.

Thank you. 45 10/12/04 - L&I - BILL 040595

Thank you very much.

Next panel, Panel 3, body shop owners and operators. Paul Brothers, Charles Nygrd; AOK Autobody, Art Kulis; Gus's Autobody, Dominic Ragguci; Haines Street Collex, Joseph Stafford; and Dr. Ralph's Automotive Services, Dr. Ralph Sposato.

Mr. Chairman, if there's anyone else we neglected to mention, please raise your hand.

Good afternoon. My name is Dominic Ragguci, and I'm here on behalf of Gus's Autobody at 9412 Bustleton Avenue, Philadelphia, PA 19115.

Gus, don't let me interrupt you, but let me first start out by interrupting. How long you been doing this?

I am related to Gus.

How long have you been in the business, though?

What, the auto body 46 10/12/04 - L&I - BILL 040595 business?

Yes. You're Dominic, right?

I'm Dominic.

How long you been doing this?

I'm not in the business. I'm here on behalf of Gus's.

So you're not a tow truck driver or a body shop?

I'm not a tow truck driver and I don't operate a body shop. I'm just a spokesman for the business.

All right. What do you think about this stuff? Is that part of what you're go to go say?

It's part of what I'm going to say.

Then I'll let you say it. I was going to ask you, it looks like you've been around a little. Not that you're old, but I was going to say, what's this all about? I mean, this sounds like some real scary stuff, to go to a woman's house and 47 10/12/04 - L&I - BILL 040595 tell her information, which we might all know anyhow but it's scary when you don't realize it.

I'm known to a couple members of the panel. Gus's Autobody is a second generation auto body shop established at its location in Northeast Philadelphia in 1949 by Gus Natelli, Jr. Gus owns and operates a tow truck in conjunction with his body shop. We recognize a rotation list is inevitable if not eminent. There are concerns -- and these will parallel the items that you mentioned earlier, Mr. Councilman. There are concerns about future fair management of a rotation list. There is a potential for body shops and tow truck operators sponsored or funded by major insurance carrier claims departments or major national auto body franchises to develop influence or a control over the rotation list. This potential could exist in any political environment. Such influence or control could compromise and affect smaller but otherwise 48 10/12/04 - L&I - BILL 040595 qualified participants on the rotation list, thus seriously affecting the smaller operator's livelihood. Thank you.

Thank you.

Good afternoon. My name is Arthur Kulis, President of AOK Autobody located at 1330 Washington Avenue. I'm a body shop owner.

You actually did this for a living?

Yes. I actually started the business in 1957 and doing all the work myself.

Did you start compounding and detailing cars?

I did everything; welding, compounding, everything.

What do you think about all of this?

I think that I'm losing a lot of business that I used to have because the chasers are stealing my work. That's what I think.

You've been 49 10/12/04 - L&I - BILL 040595 doing this a while. Using your expertise and your experience in this business, why -- this didn't just happen overnight. We've been reading about this in Mr. Ferrick's column for a while. Do you remember a time when this didn't happen?

Yes. I can remember -- actually, we stopped getting work, I'd say, 10 years ago. Up until that point. We were open until 6 o'clock in the evening. I would sit at my desk between 4:00 and 6:00 and get at least a dozen cars. "Art come tow my car. I'm located at such and such a place." I don't own a tow truck. We'd call somebody go get it. That sort of like died out completely. We were getting phone calls to come tow my car. By the time I would send a tow truck, the car is gone. I would ask the customer, "What happened?" "Oh, the guy said he's going to pay my deductible for me. I didn't pay it and I know you charge." Yeah, I don't give money away. 50 10/12/04 - L&I - BILL 040595 There's no free lunch out there. And other customers would tell me he's going to give me new tires, paint my whole car. But I've seen the cars that were fixed afterwards. And it's a shame. People got ripped off, and they know it. Any customer who comes to my place and I happen to see they had it fixed someplace else because of shoddy work, I'm not very nice to them. But they do still let me fix the car. Every Monday morning I have to come to work with at least a thousand cash in my pocket. Maybe I can get one car out of the shop. Here, I have different bills, the money I paid out to get a car out of the shop. This was $1550 cash; 475 cash.

For someone who asked you to fix their car, you've got to get their car; is what you're saying?

Correct.

Wouldn't the insurance company pay for that?

They pay. They used to 51 10/12/04 - L&I - BILL 040595 pay. But now they're not going to pay. If it's more than 2 to 300, I have to call and get permission first. And some of the horror stories the people tell me. And now today, two days on the phone trying to get one car out of a shop. They wouldn't even tell me how much I owe. Then finally they told me, "You owe $650 cash." But I sent a tow truck. When he got there, he said you have to get the owner here to come down, they've got to sign the release. It's always a stall to get another day's storage. It's not the right way to do business.

Incredible. I guess it's because the business we're in and people do stuff for us as far as our City vehicles are taken care of. I have sons with cars, and it's a major pain in the butt getting tows and doing things. It's not because of any of these guys, but I've got to think -- you've been around -- when we started regulating this industry like maybe 10, 11 years ago when L&I started -- I'm trying to 52 10/12/04 - L&I - BILL 040595 remember what L&I Commissioner. I'm looking at Councilman Rizzo because he's been here as long as I have. But I think it was either Levin or Fran Eagan when they started doing this and all the trucks -- we were doing away with gypsy -- they were calling them gypsy tow trucks in them days. It has to be years 9 ago. They put the emblems on the side of the 10 car and that was supposed to solve everything. Is that when this all started happening when people had to start hustling in a different way? There's always going to be that bad element, but is there a tow truck drivers thing against body shop owners? What do you think it is?

My opinion, most of the -- not all tow truck drivers but a lot of tow truck drivers sell the job. They don't even take it. They don't have a body shop. They're just selling it to the highest bidder. Like I said, there's no free lunch out there. The insurance companies do not give money away. We're regulated by the insurance industry on how much we get paid per 53 10/12/04 - L&I - BILL 040595 hour and what parts to put on the car. There's guidelines for every insurance company.

When you just said a minute ago that the body shop said to your potential customer that they would pay for the deductible, I think people realize when a body shop pays for the deductible, something's got to give somewhere; the part that was supposed to be replaced is straightened. They have to make up that money someplace, because I believe it is a violation of the law to fudge an estimate to pick up the deductible.

It is against the law. It's a $15,000 fine, 7 years if you try to cheat or defraud any insurance company. That's a new law a few years ago that came out. People are still doing it. Eventually, the other shoe is going to fall.

If a person has a $500 deductible and the body shop says, "Don't worry about it. You're not going to have to pay the deductible," people listening have to 54 10/12/04 - L&I - BILL 040595 realize that to make up that $500 something has to give here, whether the insurance is paying for a new fender and it turns out that it's being straightened or they're paying for a new bumper and it's -- well, we don't have too many chrome bumpers anymore -- that it's a refinished bumper. Obviously, there's something being pulled out of that job to make enough money to pay so that the customer does not have to pay the deductible. Again, it's illegal. And what I described a little while ago, the vehicle is potentially not being repaired as well as it would normally be if the body shop wasn't trying to make up the deductible.

Correct. But also when an individual makes a private contract with the body shop to save that 500 or not pay the 500, if the repairs are not satisfactory to the individual's car, when he goes back to his insurance company, there's no recourse. But if they paid the deductible, the insurance company will go back to that shop and make them fix it right. Or if they can't or won't, 55 10/12/04 - L&I - BILL 040595 they'll take it to another shop to fix it the right way and then go after that other particular shop to fix it. Ten years ago they came out with an anit-pollution license in the City of Philadelphia. I know there's a lot of body shops in the City of Philadelphia, say, 600, 700 body shops. I don't know how many are legal, but there were only six applications for this license. I was one of them.

For the spray booth and all?

For the spray booth, yes, for an anti-pollution license. And the other ones -- a couple good body shops and a couple dealers that had body shops. I was shocked.

People are spraying cars without spray booths is what you're saying?

Yes. And then they had a big investigation of the licenses. My shop's open from 7:00 in the morning until 6:00 in the evening. And one fine day 11:00, 56 10/12/04 - L&I - BILL 040595 here comes eight inspectors from the City of Philadelphia checking all over my place, licenses, this, that, everything. Which was fine, but that particular year there was a body shop open next door to me with no sign. I said, "Everything's good. How about next door? Could you check on them, please? I mean, they are my competition. Even though they're illegal, they're my competition." They said, "The door is closed. We can't." Great. Well, they said they were done, they're going to lunch. Well, at lunch, the door happened to open. So I quick ran out, they had two cars. I said, "The door is open." They said, "No, no, we're going to lunch." The City has to start working like after 5:00. A lot of body shops that are illegal work after 5:00. You have to have two shifts, I think.

Did you report that to anybody in the DA's Office or the 57 10/12/04 - L&I - BILL 040595 City's office about the inspectors not coming back?

No. 5

Okay. Any questions? Councilman Rizzo.

We have two more witnesses.

Councilwoman Brown has questions for you guys first.

The representative for Gus' Autobody, your name again, sir?

Dominic Ragguci.

Mr. Ragguci, the circumstance you raise with regard to insurance companies trying to have a stake in what might appear to be an irresponsible way, similar to the sidebar I had with Richie Feder, is there any remedy you can offer that would address that problem? Because it goes directly to this issue of equity of opportunity again across the board.

Well, I'd like to 58 10/12/04 - L&I - BILL 040595 state my qualifications in that area. I'm a retired insurance agent and broker and I successfully ran a large book of car insurance business over 23-plus years, and I know from personal experience the kind of influence that insurance carrier claims departments can have in local communities as far as things like rotation lists are concerned, particularly in the outlying areas of Philadelphia. The remedy would be simply not to allow that to happen. The small guy deserves a chance. He runs an appropriate shop. He has appropriate storage area, appropriately alarmed and fixed up to reduce pilfering and stealing. And I don't think anyone should have an influence to keep the marginal or smaller operator from getting his share of being rotated on that list. I know how they function, the major insurance carrier claims departments because I worked for them for over a long period of time. And they have a lot of control over what shops get jobs and they have a lot of control over -- they could end up getting control over who gets on that rotation 59 10/12/04 - L&I - BILL 040595 list.

And there will be a process for whether it is a combination of the Procurement Department, Police Department, and the Department of Licenses and Inspections to review the qualifications of the individual towing company. So again, everyone will have an opportunity to be part of this. And if they qualify, there will be qualifications and they'll need to be met. But I think the rotational system will alleviate a lot of problems that I know exist and the Police Department knows exists. So I think this will be a big help. And I think many people will have an opportunity to participate in this program.

Thank you. Thank you, Councilman.

Thank you, gentlemen.

Could you identify yourself for the record?

Good afternoon. Ralph Sposato, owner of Ralph's Automotive Service. 60 10/12/04 - L&I - BILL 040595

Charles Nygrd, Central City Toyota, Paul Brothers Autobody.

I'm here to say first of all that I support the rotation system and I can attest to the horror stories that we just heard. And on a daily basis I can testify to that it happens each and every day. I would suggest that most of the tow truck operators in the City of Philadelphia are legit and everybody has a right to earn a living. The problem in our industry is the tow truck chasers, the ambulance chasers. And we've heard about safety. What we did not hear about is specifically what it is that motivates these chasers to rush to the scene and get these wrecks. And that is that there's a kickback to them to the tune of 15 to percent in cash that various body shops 20 pay back to the tow trucks. And the question comes up, where does this money come from. And the money comes from substandard repairs, inferior parts, used parts and whatever that goes on in the industry. Outrageous prices. The whole thing is a sham, it's just 61 10/12/04 - L&I - BILL 040595 outrageous. I hear so much of it on a daily basis that I thought that the first opportunity that I would have to publicly address this issue, here I am and that is that. I'm here to answer any questions that you may have.

Mr. Sposato, you hit on something that is very, very important about the substandard work. And I know many body shop owners in this room can discuss the fact that a vehicle's repaired in January and starts to come apart, the paint starts to peel, the assembly is very, very bad. Could you talk about vehicles that you have inspected after the fact when it was done in one of these shops that is involved in this relationship?

I've had occasions in my career to inspect many of these cars. The problem comes in that once the deductible is waived or saved, the insurance companies, they wash their hands of it and the consumer is stuck with a substandard repair. And where do we go from here? Obviously, a shop that 62 10/12/04 - L&I - BILL 040595 usually engages in this type of a practice is not very ethical. It does not operate ethically. And when it comes time for you to take it to court, you may take a situation to court for a couple thousand dollars. Most people figure, well, it's not worth it, I'm not going to take the time. And we go on to next and next, and the problem goes on and on.

Could these vehicles that are repaired under these circumstances, could they be hazardous? Could the frame still be out of alignment? Could the vehicle be returned to the customer believing that they have a vehicle that has been repaired properly?

Absolutely. Especially when it comes down to the suspension components, drive components that indeed compose a safety hazard.

Thank you.

Thank you, Councilman. Next, sir.

My name Charles Nygrd 63 10/12/04 - L&I - BILL 040595 representing Central City Toyota and Paul Brothers Autobody. We've been in business since 1905. It's a family owned and operated business, very prominent in the City. We have taken many steps to try to -- how would you say this -- to try to get those customers that we know that are getting towed, you know, we have a big push with our Toyota certified program which we are a Toyota certified shop. So, therefore, when somebody buys a new Toyota, we're hoping that they're going to want to protect their warranty and we give out discount card, things like that. We get zero cars towed into us, but do we see those cars? Yes, absolutely. Because we are Toyota, when somebody has a lienholder put on the check, it's Toyota, they have to take the car to us to get it signed. We look at the car and all the time we say "Was there a chance that you might have paid your deductible?" "No, I didn't. At the scene of the accident, et cetera, et cetera." Well, that person is now jeopardized 64 10/12/04 - L&I - BILL 040595 that they have a check that they can't get signed. Now, somehow or another this check gets signed. I could sit here all day. Do we keep a thousand dollars in cash on us all the time? Absolutely. There is just so much of this that has hurt our business. And again, we try to attack it proactively where we would actually shut our shop down to have training classes for all the body shops in the area. We send a fax out to everybody. And there's a lot of guys sitting here with us right now that they did send over their employees to get trained and that we were going to try to educate consumers that, hey, you're jeopardizing your car if you don't get it fixed right. And I think there's many issues to the problem. One of the things is that there's not licensing for body shops. You can basically just start a shop, you know, whatever City licenses you need, boom, you go ahead and you start something. So there's a lot of problems that are precipitating this, what we're all sitting here with right now at 65 10/12/04 - L&I - BILL 040595 least as far as the body shop end is. What we'd like to see is -- we support the rotation. Again, that's not our business, but we understand that there has to be a stop to what's going on out there right now. It's jeopardizing too many people.

Thank you. Any questions? (No response.)

Panel 4, insurance car rental industry, Erie Insurance, Insurance Federation of Pennsylvania, AAA, and Enterprise Car Rentals.

Some we know who's who, could you all just initially identify yourselves for the record, please?

Art Lenke, AAA Mid-Atlantic.

Byron Solvenson, Enterprise Rent-a-Car.

Sir, could you identify yourself, please?

Good afternoon, Councilman Rizzo and Mariano. My name is John 66 10/12/04 - L&I - BILL 040595 Doubman. I'm Secretary and Counsel for the Insurance Federation of Pennsylvania. With me is Art Lenke from AAA Mid-Atlantic. Bill 5 Stinger from Erie Insurance, they are members of the Insurance Federation and Bill is unavailable today; he will not be here.

You can decide among the three of you who would like to lead off.

Why don't I go first then on behalf of the Insurance Federation. Thank you for the chance to testify this afternoon. The federation is a non-profit trade association that represents insurers of all shapes and sizes doing business in Pennsylvania. And our members include most of the major auto writers who do business in Pennsylvania and in Philadelphia. Our auto insurer members continue to report some abusive pricing and customer treatment practices in the towing and storage business, not only in Philadelphia but around the Commonwealth. Few, if any, of the insurers, however, have readily accessible 67 10/12/04 - L&I - BILL 040595 data on the degree to which inflated towing and storage charges by themselves increase the loss cost for servicing policyholders. Nevertheless, these charges do increase these costs beyond what they should be. And judging by some of the worst stories, the inflated charges are significant in many cases. As you know from the Federation's appearances before City Council in the past however, we advocate a broad-based attack on all loss costs that pressure auto rates. We agree with the sponsors of this bill that the time has come to try to control towing abuses. Such an effort can't be anything but beneficial for auto policyholders and the companies which insure them in the City. All of this is not surprising, but it brings us to the key question in these proceedings, namely, will imposition of the rotational assignment system for towing disabled vehicles proposed in this bill 23 diminish unfair and abusive charges? The Federation believes that the changes in Section 9-605 will lead to improved 68 10/12/04 - L&I - BILL 040595 service to owners of disabled vehicles and give the City a much stronger enforcement mechanism to control marketplace abuses. In our view then, while this ordinance is not a complete answer, it is a move in the right direction. The current Philadelphia ordinance 9 on towing is well drafted, but it is widely perceived as ineffective. First, towers who choose top overcharge have done so with impunity under the price restrictions in Section 6 of the ordinance by inventing all sorts of incidental services representatives being connected to but not part of or controlled by the regulating towing charge. In some examples submitted to us by member companies, these add-ons include lot fees, clean-up fees, separate administrative fees and in one instance a $300 charge for two hours of advice. Insurers do not pay these charges without complaint, often negotiating reductions, but we must assume that many of these slip through the system one way or 69 10/12/04 - L&I - BILL 040595 another in whole or in part. A second criticism of the current ordinance is that the City does not have the manpower, resources and a serious commitment to enforcing it. The City is regarded as fairly good on initial licensing, but any interest in ongoing enforcement has be scant according to most commentators. With that background, Councilmember Rizzo's bill seems a valuable improvement in two respects: First, by putting an end to the race to the wreck scenario. It promises a more orderly, perhaps safer and certainly more ordered response to the need for towing services. After all, virtually anyone who has been in a vehicle which has been damaged in an accident understands that all the participants are in a very disturbed emotional state. To the extent possible, they should be spared high pressure salesmanship from any direction. To the charge that this orderly system will be anti-competitive, one asks what legitimate competitive considerations are being lost? Is there any virtue to allowing 70 10/12/04 - L&I - BILL 040595 the tower with the fastest truck or the most propitious location for his scanner or the most persuasive driver to get the job?

Early bird gets the worm is as American as apple pie, but perhaps needs to be tempered if it sets off races on Philadelphia streets and confrontations and high-pressure tactics at accidents scenes. Most importantly, insurers see this new system primarily as an improved market enforcement mechanism. That is because any tower which routinely violates the standards in the ordinance can be ousted from the rotating business. The City can now insist more forcefully on compliance. The Federation believes that the City should have this enforcement power in this environment. The Federation's endorsement of the bill, however, comes with three cautions: First, amended Section 4-D provides that the City will establish any fee it makes and the permissible tower fees by regulation. Obviously, informed by the weakness of the current ordinance, the Federation recommends 71 10/12/04 - L&I - BILL 040595 that the drafters must very carefully proscribe acceptable charges and rule out any others in connection with a towing job and storage of the vehicle. Coincidentally, the City should not see this as a profit center. Any fee the City charges should be a minor administrative charge to defray the cost of a clerk and a software program. Enforcement charges should be advised on violators. Second, in order for the system to make a marked improvement, the City must allocate resources to active enforcement, especially during the initial stages of the rotational program. Third and finally, proposed Section 17 4-E should be changed to allow owners and operators of disabled vehicles to make their own towing arrangements to which they may have access through their insurance or their automobile club. Assuming this can be done consistent with highway safety, there's no 23 reason for the City to intrude on the citizen's rights to make their private arrangements as long as the public interest 72 10/12/04 - L&I - BILL 040595 isn't in danger. This turns out to be just as important as protecting the right of the owner or operator to designate a destination for the tow. Protection of the owner operators' rights in both these respects turns out to be crucial to protect the insured's right to make the most advantageous repair arrangements under his insurance. This ties into other aspects of the towing and storage cycle with which this proposed ordinance is not directly concerned. Nevertheless, the ordinance should be drafted where possible to protect the individual driver's ability to make his or her own arrangements. Again, the Federation applauds this effort of Council to come to grips with these problems. If the Federation can be of assistance in any fashion in establishing the system, we'll be happy to oblige. If anyone has any questions, I'd be happy to entertain them.

Any questions for this witness? 73 10/12/04 - L&I - BILL 040595 (No response.)

Next.

Good afternoon, members of City Council. I'm very pleased to be here today on behalf of AAA Mid-Atlantic to provide testimony in support of a rotational towing system for the City of Philadelphia with the caveats that I will explain. As you may know, AAA has advanced the interest of motorists for over 100 years. AAA represents one-quarter of all US households and in the City of Philadelphia has 179,000 members. My name is Arthur Lenke and I've been with AAA for more than 30 years and I'm currently the managing director of emergency road service operation for AAA Mid-Atlantic. I oversee four operation centers, one in Philadelphia that handles over 400,000 emergency road dispatches each year, 180,000 are in Philadelphia. 5 million dispatches a year. I'm also responsible for 74 10/12/04 - L&I - BILL 040595 fleet operations of our 125 owned and operated vehicles and drivers and our emergency road service contract network of 700 independent facilities. AAA views the creation of a rotational towing system in the City of Philadelphia as both a safety and a consumer issue. Motorists should not have exorbitant towing or storage fees imposed upon them. AAA supports a measure that will give structure to the selection of towing companies and protect the public from predatory towing practices. But AAA believes that the language in the legislation must be clear. Members of the public, including AAA members should be able to continue to use whatever towing service they choose as long as their vehicle is not blocking traffic. The amended language in the legislation is not clear. " As long as traffic can safely move around the disabled vehicle, drivers should not be forced to be towed by the tower on the rotation list. AAA believes it is important to preserve the motorist's right to determine who makes the tow, whether it be AAA or another organization that the motorist prefers. Amended language in the legislation also says that the City may charge a fee in connection with the towing of vehicles. This fee should cover the cost of a rotational system, but the City should not simply generate revenue from the misfortune of motorists. Any driver who has just been involved in a crash, even a minor one, is usually emotional and vulnerable and easily open to being taken advantage of. That's why AAA has worked diligently over the years to provide its own members with peace of mind by contracting only with legitimate and licensed towers that will provide the quality of service that AAA members expect and 76 10/12/04 - L&I - BILL 040595 appreciate. We are familiar with tow truck operators that race to the wreck so-to-speak to take advantage of both the vulnerable motorist and a police officer who usually wants to see a crash scene cleared as soon as possible. AAA believes that it is in all motorists' best interest that the drivers involved in collisions get prompt, reliable, and credible towing assistance at a reasonable price. AAA believes that tow truck operators also deserve a fair price for their services. Because this legislation contains a mileage reimbursement rate of $2 per mile, I offer this for your consideration. AAA currently reimburses its tow truck contractors $3 a mile. We believe that this is fair and reasonable especially given the recent dramatic increases in fuel costs and the insurance market that has more than doubled the typical towing company's insurance rates over the past two years. In conclusion, as a representative 77 10/12/04 - L&I - BILL 040595 of the best interest of the motoring public, AAA wants drivers to be protected from some of the creative, incidental charges imposed on them, creative wincing fees, waiting fees and clean-up fees, to name just a few. We hope that this legislation can and will serve as an opportunity to reign those costs and more importantly eliminate the practice of body shop bounties which is in large part what the race to the wreck is all about.

I thank you for the opportunity to present AAA's position. AAA knows that buying and operating a vehicle is a major investment for consumers and for families and it's what keeps us mobile. When a vehicle is involved in any kind of collision that takes it out of service, its owner is rightfully concerned about any cost involving getting the vehicle back on the road in good repair. Safety and affordably removing the vehicle from the road is the first step in that process. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Lenke. Councilwoman Brown has a question. 78 10/12/04 - L&I - BILL 040595

Thank you for your testimony, gentlemen. Does AAA participate in a rotating kind of arrangement in any other municipalities anywhere in the country where you can put that in context for us?

Not directly. Many of our independent contractors are on police rotation schedules in many municipalities throughout the Mid-Atlantic region.

Thank you.

No other questions? Next.

Byron Solvenson with Enterprise Rent-A-Car. I think Mr. Lenke basically summed up our position as well. We're here sort of on behalf of the insurance industry because we are self-insured as well as we're here sort of on behalf of the general public because we face both positions. Many times we're left at the peril at the scene of an accident because our customers, like you've heard some of the 79 10/12/04 - L&I - BILL 040595 testimony, are distraught. They don't know what's going on. We as the owner/operator of the vehicle don't always get a chance to field our opinions on where we want our vehicles to go, where we want them towed to. So we're left at the mercy of whoever gets there first. And a lot of times those tow bills that come across, they know that if we want our car back we're going to pay up or we won't get the car. While a lot of consumers pass this on to the insurance companies and they may or may not pay their bill, we're left stuck with that bill. Will that increase our prices to consumers over time? It has to. So it's of our opinion as Enterprise Rent-A-Car, Mr. Lenke pretty much summed up what we would like to see in the bill as far as having the rotation as well as if we do have the choice to use one of the preferred tow companies that we normally deal with.

Let me ask you this question. If I'm visiting Philadelphia and they offer that insurance when I rent a car, why should I get it? 80 10/12/04 - L&I - BILL 040595

There's many different benefits to it. If you're involved in an accident, you can pretty much walk away from the car.

If I didn't get that and got in an accident like one of these stories that were told today, will you pay the money that the -- does your body shop pay money, cash to people?

I'm sorry.

Does your body shop pay cash to people to get cars? They're your cars. It's not like you're getting my car so I walk away from it and "I'm going back to Boston, you take care of this." And I just gave it to one of these horror story wreck chasers. What do you do then? If one of these guys have your car, what do you do?

I guess we're coming back after you and we're coming back after them.

And when you say you're coming back after them, is there an avenue to prosecute? This has had to have 81 10/12/04 - L&I - BILL 040595 happened before. Would you call the DA's office or at least the police department to find out why somebody has a car?

We have tried to prosecute some of these people at one point in time as well.

Have you ever had any cars that you couldn't get back for two or three months because of arguments?

I wouldn't say two or three months but, you know, a month goes by -- a lot of times, too, once they find out who the registered owner is, they're not calling us. It's like a game of chess, it's a game of chance. Basically you call them and, do you get an answer? You don't get an answer. They don't answer the phone. And then, what is the fee? Is it 500 today? Maybe it's 1500. It's all random.

That's got to be a hard enough thing to do for the guy that said he comes to work with a couple thousand dollars everyday. But you, how many cars do you have out on the street that could get in 82 10/12/04 - L&I - BILL 040595 an accident over a weekend? You couldn't carry that much money in your pocket nor would I want you to. So you just wouldn't deal with it, right?

We have a lot of our preferred body shops that we use. Some of them will do some of this leg work for us. That's what puts them at strain as well, it takes them away from their core area, their business as well.

These preferred body shops that you're using, they're people that -- you say preferred. That might not be the right word. They're body shops that you have experience with?

That we've built a relationship with and we trust.

I guess it's preferred. When you've got guys that you've been dealing with that you trust, you don't have to think twice about it.

Trust is a big part of this who industry, insurance, body shop, whatever you -- that's what life is all about. 83 10/12/04 - L&I - BILL 040595

So if you were doing business with somebody that turned out to be a little shady, Enterprise wouldn't be doing business with them a second time, right?

No, it's done. It's not baseball. You don't get three strikes.

It's different if it happens to someone like them ladies, because they might never go through this the rest of their life, this might be a one -- it's like buying a house, it could be a one-time thing.

Absolutely.

Thank you. Any other questions? (No response.)

The next panel will be Panel 5, tow truck drivers, John Mattioni, attorney for Tow Truck Drivers and Operators in Philadelphia; Joseph Ditillo, Joe DiCastlenuova and Anthony DiCastlenuova.

Mr. Chairman, I'm here on behalf of this organization, Tow Truck Operators of Philadelphia. 84 10/12/04 - L&I - BILL 040595 Before I get to my prepared remarks, which are brief, I've already submitted extensive comment and submitted that to all of the Committee Members. I don't propose to respond to the City Solicitor's Office comments today. I think the written comments and written remarks extensively deal with those issues. The one thing that was notably absent by the remarks from the City Solicitor's Office was any reference to not federal preemption and those thorny issues, but the relationship between the Pennsylvania Motor Vehicle Code and this Committee's authority to act in certain areas related to regulation of towing in Philadelphia. But our main thrust has nothing to do with the legal aspect; it has to do with the practical effect of what this body may do upon my clients. One of the things that struck me as critical here is that we didn't see the results of any formal studies, anybody actually sitting down and doing an analysis of what the real problems are. We've heard anecdotal stories about what happens from time 85 10/12/04 - L&I - BILL 040595 to time. And we know that, yes, some of these things do happen, but we don't know for sure exactly who the culprit is. My impression in listening today is that perhaps the major culprit are a bunch of unscrupulous body shops, but we know that not every body shop is unscrupulous. We know that there's finger-pointing at tow truck operators, but we know that most of them are probably honest, law-abiding business people. And yet we sort of paint with a broad brush a whole industry. And we'll get to that industry in a moment. One of the things that is of concern here is that it sounds as though the primary concern is not safety, but consumer protection. I have to, with all due respect to the Committee, suggest that that may be an area which is entirely preempted by the federal legislation and not delegated by the state legislation. The other thing that's of concern is that in looking at the impact of a rotation system as described here -- and it's not fully described. We're really told that we want to 86 10/12/04 - L&I - BILL 040595 have a rotation system but leave it to the City, perhaps the Police Department, perhaps the License and Inspection Department, to come up with a system that we can all have confidence in. Well, with all due respect again, we have more confidence if the Council was actually dictating what that system is rather than leaving it to the City Administration. I think the perfect illustration is we heard that when tow truck operators started to be licensed, that's when a tremendous amount of problems in the last 10 years seem to have accumulated. The other thing is that the legislation is based in terms of a rotational system based on some form of competitive process. I'm not sure that that's not just substituting one competition for another, but it's certainly not well defined at this point. Nothing that has been said has suggested that in fact the rotation system, some rotation system, will or will not work. " Well, New York City may have one and it may 87 10/12/04 - L&I - BILL 040595 work, but nobody's done a study to figure that out. We don't want to be the guinea pigs for an experiment. If you're going to do something, we'd like you to do it after you fully investigate it and determine that it has a chance of curing the problems that really exist. There are other technical issues of concern related to pricing and so on which we, with all due respect, have to suggest should be considered as either preempted by the federal legislation and not delegated by the state legislation. I am, as I said, here on behalf of the Tow Truck Operators of Philadelphia to provide an overview of the Association's position and introduce some of its members who will speak in its behalf.

We have Joseph DiTillio, Joseph DiCastlenuova, Anthony DiCastlenuova and a person not on your list, Mr. Havano Pena (ph), who would also like to speak briefly. He's a tow truck driver; he's not an owner and he's not an operator. He'd like to present that point of view as well. 88 10/12/04 - L&I - BILL 040595 The Tow Truck Operators of Philadelphia was organized a little more than a month ago as a local trade organization representing tow truck operators in the City. The purpose of the organization is to further their legitimate goals. All of the members are duly licensed tow truck operators. And I want to make sure you understand the distinction. We believe that the major problem with tow truck operators may be a large body of tow truck operators who are not licensed. And that's a failure on the part of the City of Philadelphia, and that's one the reasons why we have reservations about how much we can rely on the City to regulate towing. There are about 2600 licensed tow trucks operating in the City, many of which are owned and operated by our Association members. Our members and their employees and staff provide an invaluable service to the community. And despite the problems, I think the value of the service to the community is irreparable. They represent small businesses 89 10/12/04 - L&I - BILL 040595 employing drivers, helpers, mechanics, body repair experts, clerks and other administrative employees. They purchase goods and services from other businesses. They pay their taxes to the City and elsewhere. They are representative of that extremely important segment of the community, the small business owner and operator, so vital to the City's economy. I think that's being overlooked in the suggestion of let's just go ahead and get a rotational system without really thinking it through and what the impact will be on legitimate tow truck operators and legitimate body shop owners. Literally thousands are employed in the industry and related business. More thousands depend on towing and related concerns for support. As some of these speakers today will tell you, licensed tow truck operators also provide many incidental services and secondary benefits which may not be so obvious to the average citizen. All you've heard about are the horror stories. But what about those other stories, the 90 10/12/04 - L&I - BILL 040595 stories about the heroic tow truck operator who gets to the scene of the accident first and realizes that there's serious injuries and makes sure that emergency medical services are called because they're there before the Police Department. What about the tow truck operators that help lift up and provide services where they can't even get compensated and help to protect victims of an accident at the scene. Our Association opposes the rotational towing system as described in this bill. As counsel to the Association, we've prepared, as I've already mentioned, lengthy memorandum and other legal support for our evaluation of the bill, and we've summarized all of our conclusions related specifically to the rotational system. We have provided you with copies of these documents in an effort to highlight some of the legal problems with the bill. I do not intend to address that issue further. The legal issues are complex, they're difficult, they are deserving of the attention of this Committee and of this body. 91 10/12/04 - L&I - BILL 040595 If you have questions, I'll try to answer them, but I don't want to take up the time of others at this point. The remaining speakers for our Association are tow truck operators and other members of the Association. Some will testify about the nature of the towing business and the reasons why we believe the rotational system, as proposed, will not work. The challenges of legitimate tow truck operators in the City are great. The cost of applying and maintaining a tow truck in Philadelphia is substantial.

Most of the Association's members have invested over a hundred thousand dollars per tow truck. So it's not insubstantial. In fact, it's quite substantial when considering, as I mentioned, that there are 2600 or more licensed tow trucks in the City. One of the problems, obviously, is the failure to enforce the licensing laws that are already on the books. The members of our Association believe that the rotational system as proposed will stifle competition and will pave the way for adversely affecting towers and all the 92 10/12/04 - L&I - BILL 040595 businesses that depend on that. Our members are convinced that the logistics involved in implementing a rotational system will put many of them out of business. Also, it will be detrimental to providing quick, efficient, professional towing services and related assistance to the drivers on our streets and highways who are victims of accidents. Our Association suggests strongly that you take a good hard look to determine what the actual problems are that exist in the present system and then develop solutions that make sense. There are many good ideas being discussed to address the particular problems associated with unlicensed towers. However, the solution embodied in the regulation of towing in the City must be carefully thought through and targeted so it can solve the problems without putting small licensed tow truck operators out of business. As I mentioned, we don't see evidence in these hearings, in these proceedings or at any other time of any real active investigation and study of the towing 93 10/12/04 - L&I - BILL 040595 industry in this City. And without that, we submit that, first of all, it would run contrary to Pennsylvania law under the Motor Vehicle Code, but more importantly, it will make us the guinea pigs of an experiment on rotational towing and a rotational towing system without knowing whether it's got even a chance or hope of working. There's much at stake here for the members and the City. Thank you very much for the opportunity to provide my testimony on behalf of the Association.

Thank you, Mr. Mattioni. Councilwoman Brown has a question for you.

Good afternoon. Do you believe there is a problem as defined here today? Do you believe that there's a problem?

We believe that there are several problems related to the subject of tow truck operation. One of them that we believe is critical and should be directly 94 10/12/04 - L&I - BILL 040595 addressed and managed is the proliferation of unlicensed tow trucks on the street. Our members are all licensed operators.

Councilman Ramos.

I'll yield to Councilman Rizzo.

Counselor, in all due respect, there are chasers that I see responding to wrecks in very expensive tow trucks, are licensed tow trucks. I don't see too many, what I would call gypsy tow trucks responding to westbound at Girard when there's a multi-vehicle accident. There are very expensive, very fancy, well-known names on the side of them with the license sticker on them. Since I've been involved in this issue, I've been paying attention. And there may be gypsy tow trucks out there, but they're not the ones that went and bought the $800 scanner to monitor police radio and fire radio.

If you're suggesting that the scanners are the root of some form of evil, we'd have to respectfully disagree with 95 10/12/04 - L&I - BILL 040595 you, Councilman. As a matter of fact, we consider that as one of the incidental benefits because legitimate tow truck operators do arrive on the scene early and are able to and, in fact, do provide assistance. And I think that's one of the points that is sorely missed here.

Mr. Mattioni, on a risk of sounding like Yogi Berra, this is like deja vu all over again. We did this before. Didn't I try to do this once? Didn't Councilman Kenney try to do this once? Now, I'm looking at guys here. There are some faces I know. I've got to find out from this panel -- and Councilman Rizzo can certainly answer this for me or anyone here. Who's doing this? I mean, who are the bad guys? Certainly, it's not you or you because I know you; it's not you. I can vouch for you; it's not you. These guys are paying these lawyers to do things and he's doing a good job, but as Council people, as elected officials, we're basically very weak-willed. We don't want to hurt anybody's feelings, but 96 10/12/04 - L&I - BILL 040595 we will. Now, you can see his back's up so he's got a problem and he's jumping around pretending he's running this Committee. He's not. But he's doing a job because he believes in something. I don't necessarily agree with him, I don't necessarily disagree with him. There is problem. Can we all recognize the fact that there is a problem? If the Staff Inspector who is the captain on the highway, who for a cop can ride the motorcycle pretty good because I rode with him, if he can tell me something and vouch for it, I think it's pretty good. So somebody was going the wrong way down the street. And if that guy was in here today, he would tell me. I see people around here that I know. Somebody tell me what's going on here because we're going to have to make a decision. And as weak-will elected officials, we don't want to hurt anybody's feelings. But we will. So let's work this out like men. I'm going to save you a whole lot of money today. We can all go up to Harvard and 97 10/12/04 - L&I - BILL 040595 go to John F. Kennedy School that I went to because the union sent me years ago. And 4 we get to a point, it's called if I go this 5 way and break my back, I lose. If I go this 6 way and the other guy breaks his back, we got 7 to get the "yes yes." The "yes yes" is right 8 in the middle here. I want you to bend a 9 little and we're going to bend a little. And 10 I'll do a lot of bending here. 11 Now, he's on the fast track to get 12 this out of committee today. They gave us 13 some amendments and the City lawyer is over 14 there working some amendments. Help us out 15 here. Because this is going to happen 16 somehow, in some form. And I think you guys 17 in this room -- we'll stay here all night. 18 Guys, get up here and help us out. I'll hold 19 this a little, but it has to eventually work 20 out. Let's figure out -- no disrespect to you. You're a paid lawyer and you did a good job. I want these guys to tell me what's going on.

I know you do, but let me tell you one thing, though. One of the 98 10/12/04 - L&I - BILL 040595 things that I know that my clients, at least, hope to get out of this hearing is an opportunity to sit down and meet with the Committee members, the staff, the City. We want to work with the City to come up with solutions. Our problem is that we're not sure we know fully what the specific answers are to and even what the specific issues are, because we've heard a lot of problems with other than tow trucks. And these fellows can talk for themselves. But we don't want to come in here saying, "No, absolutely not." What we want to do is come up with something sensible.

Listen. Every time the City tries to do something, there's 50 one way and 50 the other. I always think of the liquor by the drink tax. Depending on who you're talking to, it was a great tax. There's fewer bars around in Philadelphia today. The corner bars are gone. People from out of town like McFadden come in and buy these places and it's not the same kind of business. But I like local businessmen. I don't want the City doing the deal that's 99 10/12/04 - L&I - BILL 040595 going to bring a big insurance company in here and control all that. And it's pure and simple. Because I don't know them. They're not going to help me when I need help to ask them to do something. I know some of these guys and they're only going to lie to me once. Most of them won't lie to me or anybody on this Committee even once. We want to be kind and we want to work this out. So if these guys can give us some stories and help us get to a point where it can be a win/win. If it's not today, I see this thing coming around the corner. It just keeps coming back and back. It's time for you all to reach inside yourself -- it's not a good analogy, but an elected official gave a speech about six months ago and he started the story. As soon as he started the story, I went "Boy, he's going to say something today that really shocks everybody." I don't expect anything that shocking to come out of this hearing. That's a totally different subject, but you guys got to reach inside yourself and show us something here so we can work this out 100 10/12/04 - L&I - BILL 040595 so we can do our job as elected officials. But you guys can make money and pay taxes. There's some bad guys in this business. You've got to tell us who they are and how we regulate it so we don't put you out of business. If it's not regulation, then say that. If it's the state that should be saying -- you made yourself clear. Can we hear some stories from these guys? Anthony.

Although it's a good idea to put into effect rotation, it's not the proper way to correct an industry that has problems. The reason why, economically, geographically, it wouldn't benefit the City of Philadelphia or the people that make up the City of Philadelphia. A lot of statements here seems like it's more on the repairs of the vehicle and not what we're here to discuss about towing. With that in mind, statistically there's 2,623 individual tow trucks licensed in the City of Philadelphia. Approximately 5,000 employees 101 10/12/04 - L&I - BILL 040595 would be needed for something like that if it's an around-the-clock situation.

How many employees?

Well, a 24-hour operation, you would need two drivers at least to operate.

Let me ask you this while you're on that. To do this, what's it cost to buy one of these trucks? Upwards of --

In a yearly expense to have a tow truck, including the payments you have involved, the liability you have with the truck insurance, anywhere from 10,000 to $12,000 a year to insure the vehicle, the maintenance, to keep a driver on even if he's at an hourly rate, you're going to spend about $100,000 at the end of the year.

That covers every month, to pay the truck insurance?

That's correct. You're going to need a lot of 102 10/12/04 - L&I - BILL 040595 rotation calls. Geographically that can't work because here I am sitting in one area and I'm called -- they made a statement earlier, the statement, that no logical or systematic way to establish towing could be put into effect, was his words. And he was for rotation. So I have to go with that. Another statement was made that there would be no area set aside for any individuals. So if my business is established on Front and Oregon Avenue and there's a call for an accident to clear the highway, there's 3,000 vehicles in rush hour traffic that are at a standstill and a highway patrolman needs a tow truck and he calls me from Front and Oregon, I'm on the rotation list now, I have to go all the way up South Street on the Schuylkill Expressway, it's going to be a long time getting home. I hope you're not looking for a hot dinner. With that, economically, it can't work out. If you're on the list and there's 2,600 drivers or tow trucks that have to be called periodically, there's no way to make 103 10/12/04 - L&I - BILL 040595 those payments. It can work for a handful of individuals, individuals. 4 And also, there's going to be 5 requirements for equipment. Certain 6 individuals cannot provide their company with 7 that equipment; it's too expensive. If you're 8 on the rotation, do you have to be ready to 9 tow a 10-ton truck or a 3-ton car? The amount 10 of equipment you're talking about is probably in the millions of dollars invested. And another thing, it would eventually correct a monopoly. If anyone is given that opportunity that has that kind of money to establish that kind of company there's nothing going to stop them from then getting a satellite office so-to-speak at Front and Oregon, a satellite office at the end of the expressway, a satellite office in North Philadelphia and so on. There's nothing to stop them. That's happening now in New Jersey. The State of New Jersey has large companies that have offices all over the place. You can call in Deptford, for instance, and talk to a dispatcher there that 104 10/12/04 - L&I - BILL 040595 your car was towed in Cherry Hill from the same company. And then they tell you to go to Turnersville to pick it up. That's not fair. Another thing is what I would propose, which I hope we would have an opportunity to sit down at a later date and discuss -- we're hoping this can be put on hold for now because I feel like with our heads put together we'd have a lot of mutual ways that this could be rectified for everyone in interest. In fact, I believe a lot of ways and ideas that I have to implicate in this situation would bring in a lot of revenue for the City of Philadelphia that right now is being lost in many ways. I think that it should be governed by L&I and should be overseen by them, but these individuals are out here hours a day trying to make a 20 dollar. They need the freedom of 21 solicitation. They need the freedom or right 22 to not go home if they need to feed their 23 children. They need their right. If they're 24 told you're on a rotation, what are they to do, sit in a vehicle all day and wait for that 105 10/12/04 - L&I - BILL 040595 call? This is an emergency-type vehicle. This is a vehicle that is needed in an emergency case. A highway patrolman is going to want that vehicle removed quickly. He's not going to sit and wait. That's his highway, he's responsible to keep that clear, keep it safe. If there's congestion and then fights break out because they're sitting in traffic for three hours, nobody's going to be happy. If this was implicated on a rotation, I could see it happening for quite a few days, months maybe, but not long term, not long term. And another thing, I cannot myself perceive any way that economically it can help the City; only hurt the City. These gentlemen that are out here hours trying to make a 19 dollar, I hope are responsible for their 20 taxes.

The companies that own the trucks are 21 providing lots of revenue in taxes in many 22 different ways. These trucks burn up $200 or 23 3, $400 a week in gas to be out there. 24 There's a gas tax. When we purchase the vehicle, there's a sales tax. There's a wage 106 10/12/04 - L&I - BILL 040595 tax. There's a City tax. There's an income tax. For 2,623 towed vehicles, that's approximately 175-odd thousands of dollars that the City takes in in revenue. If you cut it down and say, here's the of you to go 7 tow our cars when we call you with no revenue 8 involved from what I can see and they're 9 paying $75 for their license, here you've cut 10 it approximately 174,000 -- it doesn't seem economically feasible. There are many other ways to work this out for everyone; more so the City than ourselves. And the statements that I've heard today are not zoning in on the towing industry and why there's nothing detrimental to stop us from towing freely on the streets, from what I heard. If an individual chooses to speak with somebody that comes to her door about their car, first of all, that information could be given freely from overhearing the police officer discuss it. It doesn't mean that they had to run a tag or a license or what-have-you. That could just have been eavesdropping. And if they choose to go with 107 10/12/04 - L&I - BILL 040595 that person or not, that's their own prerogative.

Councilman Rizzo.

I ask you this question respectfully. Are you a wreck-chaser?

No, I am not. I'm body shop owner.

Do you know who the wreck-chasers are?

Wreck-chasers is a broad term of calling a tow truck operator who's out there and sees a wreck happen -- I mean, what are you defining as a wreck-chaser?

I'm talking about the multi thousand dollar tow truck, all chrome, the antennas, sitting in the zoo lot waiting for T-band to broadcast an auto accident. I'm talking about the vehicle that came down the on-ramp the wrong direction from the zoo lot to respond to an accident to be first. Do you do that? 108 10/12/04 - L&I - BILL 040595

No, I personally do not do that. But out of 2,223, that's large numbers to have a vehicle on the City streets. Granted, any large number situation there's got to be good and bad. There has to be a problem area somewhere. There are X amount thousands of buses and cabs on the street. If we were to break it down and figure it out percentage-wise, I'm sure the cabs and buses cause more accidents and more problems individually than tow trucks do even on a percentage basis broken down. But now with the wreck-chasers, so-called -- I'll call them for radio listeners. When they're out there listening to the radios, they're also waiting for a private individual to call them and say, "I need your assistance." Back approximately eight years ago, I was listening to a radio when I was driving a tow truck. And I heard come over the radio in the 1st District that there was a need for police and fire. They needed a rescue unit. It came over the radio several times and I 109 10/12/04 - L&I - BILL 040595 couldn't understand why at first. Finally, the police officer came over and said there's a child pinned under a forklift, a very heavy piece of equipment. After the third or fourth time it came over, I thought to myself while I was out there and I was younger, I said, let me drive to this situation and see if there's any assistance I can provide. Fortunately for that child I was listening to that radio. I arrived at the scene with police there, many units, and they couldn't do anything with that forklift. They frankly called for a rescue unit. They couldn't get a truck there quick enough. I responded. A sergeant came over to me and asked me if I could be of assistance. I proceeded to back my truck up, extended by boom, put the hook onto the forklift and lifted it out from on top of the child. The next day, the police captain, lieutenant, everyone came to my facility and thanked me along with the father of what I did. Fortunately, the child only had a broken ankle. But it hurt. He was in pain for a lot of time. And if I wasn't monitoring or 110 10/12/04 - L&I - BILL 040595 listening to that radio that day, that child would have been in pain a lot longer.

I appreciate that.

That's only one incident. But we have lists of many opportunities like that.

You talk about the highway patrol police officers. They are now part of our traffic division, the expressway unit. I have had officers tell me that it is so bad at some hits, at some accidents, where there are six or seven tow trucks fighting each other on the shoulder of the road, not just the appropriate shoulder of road, there's tow trucks on one side of the highway stopped, jump over the guardrail to come to the -- it's a zoo out there. Something has to be done.

Back when Mr. Kenney proposed a bill, I was the one that was up here. You may remember, Mr. Mariano, you were on then. And I tried my best to stand up for these gentlemen which 111 10/12/04 - L&I - BILL 040595 were times fold, I believe. We needed more seats. Anyway, they realized that something had to be done. And they stood behind me and many association fees were collected, 300 members or so at that time. I was brought into this approximately four days ago or else I think I would have prepared myself and maybe gotten in contact with you prior to -- a long time ago. Anyway, with that, when I tried to fix the problems, I realized then that there were many drivers on these trucks that did not have proper licensing. I myself will admit to having drivers at the time years ago when I had tow trucks, and sometimes you don't realize it because they'll show you a license. We're not in the predicament where we've been told before to run it, get them checked out. I don't know how to go about that if I don't have personal police officer friends. Anyway, I have myself been guilty of that. At that point, I tried to tell them what I know is a problem is congesting the highways. The police officer doesn't like 112 10/12/04 - L&I - BILL 040595 when there's trucks and one vehicle. I 3 tried stopping that back then. But the 4 problem that I had then, I didn't initiate any 5 assistance from License and Inspection, which 6 I wish I went forward and did. But everyone 7 unfortunately thought, "Oh, Anthony stopped 8 the bill. Let's go ahead and do what we've 9 been doing." They soon forget. 10 I'm back here today because I'm hoping that, like I said earlier, this gets put on hold to where we could sit down. And I believe if you take the time to sit and discuss this with me that I will create or have you realize much economic revenue and gain for the City of Philadelphia in many ways. I really wish not to go into it today because I believe it's something that needs to be drawn out, and there are lots of ways to gain money for the City of Philadelphia. A rotation will not provide you a dollar one. In fact, another point, rotation, you want to instill that where a -- you want to include that with the Live Stop. For instance, Live Stop, many of the vehicles are 113 10/12/04 - L&I - BILL 040595 taken to the City impoundment lots and they're bid off. Many times those vehicles that are taken, and I'm sure the numbers are greater than the better ones, are dilapidated vehicles. No one's going to come and claim them. There's no value to them whatsoever. When they sell, they're lucky if they get 25, $50 for them. Who's paying the rotation truck for that tow? Is the City going to pay for it and not gain what they even spent on the tow at the lot? There's more lost. First of all, there's cost to the City, there's loss to the City, there's no gain whatsoever. And the other thing is, you want to give the police another job? Call the rotation list. Joe's towing is on it. Joe's towing truck is on a private tow, he got called an hour ago, I'm sorry, he's not back yet. Wait a minute. Police officer, highway patrol, call Jim's towing. Jim's towing is not available. His wife is pregnant. He had to run to the hospital. Call Tom's towing. Here comes Tom three hours later. Is that what's going to happen with the rotation? 114 10/12/04 - L&I - BILL 040595

If you have an operation that you just described, they won't be on the list.

So do you leave them off the list?

Yes.

Okay, they get canceled. Now, the numbers are already thin because we didn't meet the criteria with equipment mainly because we can't afford it.

And what you described earlier about a tractor-trailer involved, obviously there will be people on the rotational list that have the equipment that can handle a heavy vehicle. Again, we're trying to be straight with you. You've got to be straight with us. Most of the people in the room -- not saying most. There are some people in this room that wouldn't even be able to handle that kind of a tow.

That's correct. I'm going to refer to them as the 115 10/12/04 - L&I - BILL 040595 bigwigs. The bigwigs that can buy $500,000 tow trucks can afford a fleet of 20,000, $30,000 tow trucks.

And that's why we have the police tow squad that still exists to respond when we have a situation like an overturned dump or a tractor-trailer that has the equipment that can do some of that work or contract with a company like PennDOT has to, to pull out heavy equipment.

That's another thing. When a police vehicle responds to an overturned tractor-trailer, if you ever notice, the driver in the police tow truck isn't even capable of doing anything with it. Basically, the most I've ever seen them do is prevent anyone from hindering the situation or the scene until one of these $500,000 trucks roll up and do the tow. But then again we're back to the economics of it. I don't want to get off track with who's going to do the tows if the rotation goes into effect. Economically, you'll have 10 of them. What happens to all 116 10/12/04 - L&I - BILL 040595 these men? This isn't even an eighth of what's out there. What happens to all those individuals? I believe that they can bring more revenue to the City of Philadelphia. And I think that's what it's all about, revenue. What I have to put into effect, what I'd like to discuss along with L&I as many remedies to -- if there are any in this room, if they're unlicensed, they should never be on a truck. The company that hired them should be totally responsible. They could lose their license. So many things that could be put into effect for better economic for the City and to keep these men in the resource of earning a dollar in the City. That's what they're here for. These men have elected the Councilmen and women in order to provide for them, not take from them. This is what we're hoping that Councilmembers can see that these men make up the City, these men make up the Council. You're here to protect us, not any small individuals.

Thank you, 117 10/12/04 - L&I - BILL 040595 Anthony. Councilman Ramos.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. You know, I was concerned about the one panel that stated that tow trucks drivers were overly aggressive, had information on the damaged car owner. I found that very disturbing. But I also heard the insurance, AAA, say something sympathetic toward the tow truck drivers, that they didn't want to run them out of business. I didn't quote them exactly, but I believe that was a concern of theirs as they expressed their support for a rotation system. So I've been here for most of the hearings thus far, with the exception of the first couple people from the Police Department. And all the panels thus far have been for this rotation. You're the first panel that seems to be opposed to the rotation system. But you also happen to be the people representing the tow truck drivers. All the others and their respective involvement in 118 10/12/04 - L&I - BILL 040595 this issue were for the rotation system. I'm concerned about the tow truck drivers here and their business. I'm a member of this Committee, but I head up a Committee that looks out for jobs in this City. I sure don't want to run out of business legal, licensed tow truck drivers that are not infringing on the personal information of people to continue to make a livelihood. I had an incident last year sometime. A relative is visiting from New York. She gets in an accident on 95, and three tow truck operators show up. So by the time she gets to my house and gets the car at least moved to my house, she was happy that there were three tow truck operators show up because she said that they were very nice to her and that she had to pick one. And the idea that she could pick one to get her out of that situation helped her with her nerves, was in her view a very positive thing. I don't want to see tow truck drivers run out of business, but we sure want them in this City to do the work properly, to 119 10/12/04 - L&I - BILL 040595 be safe, to be fair, get this business circulated with the auto body parts throughout the City. So yes, I have a legitimate concern about the tow truck drivers, that they not be run out of business. I hear your arguments. It's the first time this afternoon that I've heard your side, tow truck operator side of the story. I think that we need one of you, I believe, Mr. John Mattioni, right, the attorney, that's you right there, right?

Yes.

You said something to the effect that you would look at, design -- that's my word -- something that was put together by City Council. I don't know how the Chairman feels about that, but that's something that you presented. You said to look into the unlicensed operators as well. Someone mentioned that there was no study on how many more good stories -- you could do a hundred good deeds, and one bad deed will always taint any profession that we happen to be in. 120 10/12/04 - L&I - BILL 040595 So I'm glad that the tow truck operators have you here. I'm glad you came to defend your bread and butter. But obviously, there has to be some readjustments in this system. And I believe that we can probably find -- we should find a way, Mr. Chairman, to come up with a comprehensive way to get this done where all of the parties are in agreement. That, one, there needs to be some changes made here in this system, but let's make them, let's make these changes so it won't hurt people that are making a livelihood in this business. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Thank you, Councilman. Councilman Clarke.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, I apologize for not being here earlier. We were out in the district touring certain locations with some people from the state and hopefully bring some housing money to the district so you understand why I had to take care of that 121 10/12/04 - L&I - BILL 040595 business. This question may have been asked. Please forgive me if it's redundant. The first thing I need to get a sense of, were there any substantive conversations or conversations at all with members of the Administration, sponsors of the bill, about crafting this legislation or any other legislation, any formal conversations?

I myself didn't have an opportunity because I was only asked to speak on everyone's behalf approximately four or five days ago. Like I said earlier, I would have gladly welcomed the opportunity to sit down prior to this day.

When you said you were asked to speak, are you representing drivers in a formal process?

I'm representing the Tow Truck Operators of Philadelphia which is the new organization that has been formed in order to --

Formed in response to this bill? 122 10/12/04 - L&I - BILL 040595

From what I know, yes.

That's okay. People do that here all the time. That's fine. I just want to get a sense of the process and the history.

We had no 9 communication with any Administration representative. We've had some communications with some Councilmembers. I've tried to make it clear that we don't want to come in and just sound like obstructionists. On the other hand, when you're faced with a bill which you think can have serious economic repercussions, the major thrust of what the witnesses all seemed to say was primarily economic rather than safety.

You're an attorney?

I'm an attorney.

You're representing?

The Association.

The new 123 10/12/04 - L&I - BILL 040595 association?

That is correct. But we've only been involved for a little over a month, frankly. But we've had no 6 communication with anyone other than some of the Councilmembers and their staffs. So that the answer to your question is really no. 9

When is the first you had knowledge of the bill? Was it in May?

I was retained approximately five weeks ago. And until I spoke to Councilman Rizzo, I wasn't even aware that it was an Administration sponsored bill, to be honest. That was a couple weeks ago, I guess.

Once you were retained, you became aware of the bill, understandably, because that's not the business you're in. With respect to you, as an operator or --

I own a body shop. 124 10/12/04 - L&I - BILL 040595

When were you first made aware of the bill?

Sometime last week.

So you weren't aware when it was introduced in May?

No, I wasn't. I sort of been out of the towing business for quite sometime now. And I own and operate my own facility. I do a lot of my own work and haven't had contact with many of the men for quite sometime.

Based on what you're telling me that you've had to respond to this bill in a formal way has been somewhat limited, I'm assuming, if you just found out a week ago and you were just retained.

That's correct. I would like the opportunity to get more involved with it.

As it relates to proposals -- and I think to some degree you have talked about some of the recommendations that you think would make the industry more 125 10/12/04 - L&I - BILL 040595 user friendly for the people who have some concerns about this issue. In terms of time lines, what kind of time lines would it take you to craft something in terms of recommendations to Council?

Well, I have rough ideas that I would like to propose first to John so that we can mutually agree on what to propose to you as Council. And then from there, take maybe a handful of meetings, but I want it to be done right. As I get older, I want this fixed now. I don't want to come back here to this table 5 years from now, 10 years from now. I don't want to be approached by any one of these gentlemen and say, "Help" again. What I'd like to do is -- first time, second time is a charm. I'd like to come in now and work it out, sit down and keep something into effect permanently. That's why I feel like basically it should be governed by Licenses and Inspections. I think there should be a special unit for this. And I have a lot more to add to that. And I think then if it's 126 10/12/04 - L&I - BILL 040595 governed by some City individuals that it can then be -- the economic effect could be felt for the City. You can keep track of -- the way I have a proposal, you could keep track of the money that comes from tow companies.

All right, you're going a little beyond the question I asked. I asked you about time line.

I want a handful of meetings, whatever that would take. I'm flexible. So if it takes, say, 12 hours of meetings to meet with people, I'd like to have that. Whether that's over a course of, you want to do it in a day, you want to do it in a week or month, that's at your discretion.

It sounds like you have some recommendations, you personally and you as a group. And I'm assuming that you could put that together relatively quickly.

I can.

And as a first response to what the Administration has proposed and the sponsor of the bill, I think that should be able to be done relatively 127 10/12/04 - L&I - BILL 040595 quickly, then you can hammer out things that make sense. I mean, we found in this body sometimes when people sit down and talk about issues, more often than not they have similar interests more so than they have dissimilar interests. The other question is with respect to representation, too often we have a situation where people come in and purport themselves to be representing a group of people. And then when something gets crafted, another group of people say, "Wait a minute, they don't represent me. I have different interests." So can you here today say that you represent not only the people in this room, but the many hundreds that -- you said this is one-eighth of the tow truck drivers. Can you --

Can I just interrupt, Councilman Clarke, for a moment?

Sure.

I just want to 128 10/12/04 - L&I - BILL 040595 make sure it's clear. Not everyone in this room is represented by this organization. There are people in the next panel that are not represented by this organization.

We have a limited number of actual members of this organization. We don't purport -- despite our name, we don't purport to represent the entire towing industry in Philadelphia. Essentially, we're involved with -- we would be involved in the consensual part of the business, not the non-consensual.

See, that's kind of the point I'm getting at because you -- particularly you, sir, you said that if you were able to sit down and talk to people -- sometimes you can sit down and talk to people and they don't represent anybody beyond themselves. Not suggesting that that's your case. But sometimes in a legislative body, a legislative body working with an Administration to the best of their knowledge has to craft something that they think makes some sense. Fully willing to solicit input, 129 10/12/04 - L&I - BILL 040595 but to sit down with you for hours and then a group of people over here say, "Well, I want 12 hours," and "We want 15 hours," you never get stuff done.

Because 7 of the fact that I was brought into this so 8 late in term and we're already here proposing 9 a bill, if you -- what my hope was that coming 10 out of this meeting today was if we put this 11 on hold, sort of table it for now, then 12 reviewing the facts that I brought to you and the fact that I don't want to come here five years from now --

Have you submitted anything to this body beyond your testimony?

No, I haven't. But with that, if you tell me that we can table this right now, I will then be very diligent in getting the word out to these individuals, 2,623 of them, more than what's in here, get out to them what we need to do if they want to stay in a free enterprising 130 10/12/04 - L&I - BILL 040595 business. Then I will work on that. And the next time you and I need to talk, hopefully, I will have a majority rules and we can move forward from there. And I think that's quite possible if I'm going to be involved and they'll listen to me if --

I'm only speaking for myself because ultimately the sponsor of the bill makes the decision as to whether or not he's interested in proposing holding it the whole nine yards. But I'm just trying to get a line of questioning in that puts us if there is some decision to entertain, some conversation and solicit some information for purposes of crafting something that people feel comfortable with. We have the difficulty of not knowing who's in the industry and who represents the entire industry. And I don't want to sit down and craft something and you've got the majority of people don't feel comfortable with it. So it puts us at a dilemma that if every time people come in and say, "Well, you've got to sit down and meet with these various groups before we 131 10/12/04 - L&I - BILL 040595 do something," Council never gets anything done.

I understand that.

So it's better for us if people submit written information that can be reviewed. I mean, this process legislatively takes a couple weeks before the bill to actually become law and then ultimately the Mayor has to sign. It's not like if we were to report out today it's going to be law.

Given the opportunity, if there is a delay or so on, however it needs to be worded, if so then I can assure you I will come back and present to you a list of names, addresses, companies, whatever of people that are really or are committed now to this towing association. They will be large numbers. I will bring them to you and submit that. And then they are going to be talked to and advised that they have to go along with the program in order to stay in business and now do they want to 132 10/12/04 - L&I - BILL 040595 become a member. So we can bring you numbers, because they are out there.

People do that to bring a whole bunch of people in, and that's great. You have to submit something in writing to review because you can't sit down and interview every individual about their recommendations. So the best way to get information to the government is do it in a written form, clearly indicating who you represent, what you represent and have people review it and do what they need to do with it.

That's the time I'm asking for, to do all that.

One last question as it relates to the process. It was my understanding that there were going to be certain zones created, geographic zones where respondents would be from those zones to respond to accidents in those zones.

That's why I said geographically. I said geographically it cannot work because the first speaker -- I forget who they were -- had 133 10/12/04 - L&I - BILL 040595 indicated that there were not zones actually, that you were going to be on a list. It will be John's, Jim's, Bob's, Bill's and so on was what he indicated.

To respond to anywhere in the City?

And they get called anywhere within a certain zone, but the zones are great. Now, the way we do it, a lot of times a tow truck or the radio listeners do it, they sit in an area like, for instance, the 1st District which would consist of, say, the small radius of the City of South Philadelphia or that area. They can respond to an accident within that area at a decent amount of time not to cause severe congestion throughout the streets. So the way I understood that the rotation may work in a large zone and you're on a list, you have to be available first. You could be tied up doing something else. The individuals on a rotation list are not going to have a driver sitting in an office 134 10/12/04 - L&I - BILL 040595 twiddling his thumbs waiting for a rotation call nor will he get enough rotation calls to keep him busy for an eight-hour period, let alone any further overtime that he needs to earn. It is a very minimum pay to be a tow truck operator. This is another reason why these gentlemen are out there, some hours a 9 day. Some have slept in the trucks to try and 10 earn that dollar. So the rotation is not 11 going to provide economically for many 12 individuals. 13

It won't reduce 14 the number of accidents, right? It's still 15 going to be a number of accidents and people 16 are going to respond to those accidents. Why 17 is that going to change the economics? 18

That 19 brings up another issue. If they're called to 20 a Live Stop --

The Parking Authority does Live Stops. I just want to get some clarity. Live Stops are not done by private towers.

They're 135 10/12/04 - L&I - BILL 040595 not going to be on the rotation? I understood that if it went to rotation that they were going to be called to those also.

For Live Stop?

That's what I was told. Now, maybe I'm wrong. Like I said, I've been short on time.

The Parking Authority does that. Sergeant Healy, you want to clarify that? The current system is the Parking Authority does the towing, right? SERGEANT HEALY: Correct.

So there are no 17 Live Stops.

You may be confusing it with the truck lists and private towers who are towing for the Truck Enforcement, correct?

But in answer to your question, how it will effect them. For instance, say the rotation call comes for an accident. An accident on the 136 10/12/04 - L&I - BILL 040595 Expressway does not get cleared immediately. That's one point. It takes several hours sometimes, hours at a time before that tow truck can even leave that area depending on what's involved, depending on if AID is holding the scene. There's an investigation before any vehicles are touched. That rotation vehicle sits there until they're done? That's taking hours at a time. In the event that there is a disabled vehicle -- actually, another point. If a rotation vehicle is called to that accident and Jim's Towing is told by the owner of the vehicle to tow it to Bob's Autobody in Conshohocken and it's 7 o'clock at night and Bob closed at 5:00, how is that tow operator supposed to be reimbursed for that tow? Put a check in the mail to me? He has three children at home that need bread and water. And after he leaves that, he gets told, "Oh, we have a disabled vehicle blocking the Girard Avenue off ramp. Could you come and tow that?" He goes and tows that disabled vehicle. It's unattended. There's no one 137 10/12/04 - L&I - BILL 040595 there to pay him for the tow. How is he going to make a living? That tow truck could be out there for the day cost $50 in fuel, let alone all the other expenses. That's a few little incidentals why it just can't work.

Thank you. I just wanted to ask the counselor, could you provide to the Chair the list of the members of your organization? And could you, for the record today, tell me as of today how many members do you have in your Tow Truck Operators of Philadelphia Association?

Our company members, I believe, are 32 or 33; I'm not sure.

Thirty-two or thirty-three?

That's not individuals, that's companies

Companies?

Yes. And we attached a copy to one of my letters. At the time the list was, I believe, 25. We've not misrepresented who we represent. 138 10/12/04 - L&I - BILL 040595

One last question. In the ordinance it says the establishment of a rotation method of tow truck dispatch must be approved by separate ordinance of City Council.

I believe that's the present bill, that's not the amendment.

Okay.

The amendment would --

Somebody want to clarify that?

So this essentially establishes all regulatory issues as it relates to the rotational system?

I don't believe that's correct either, Councilman. What it does is it provides the mechanism for the City then to administratively adopt a rotational system. This bill doesn't do it directly. Am I correct?

Yes.

So administratively, what's the process as it 139 10/12/04 - L&I - BILL 040595 relates to City Council's involvement in implementing such a program?

What this ordinance 5 would do, Councilman, is it would authorize the Police Department to establish the rotation system. The details of that would be done by regulation of the Police Department.

My question is, how are we involved in that? Suppose we authorize you guys to come up with a process, meaning the City, the Administration, and we don't like the process.

You pass an ordinance 15 and tell the Administration that you don't like it.

So why wouldn't we just have a process that has the Council, since we're the people's elected officials, good or bad, be in a position to effect the administrative implementation of a rotation system?

I don't think there's a right way or a wrong way to do that, Councilman. Generally, my personal view of 140 10/12/04 - L&I - BILL 040595 legislation is Council should set the overall parameters, and the details of the procedures should be left to the expert body. And obviously, if Council doesn't like the way that's done, Council passes an ordinance and says, you got it wrong. But the way this ordinance was envisioned is that the details would be left to the Police Department, subject to the overall parameters set forth in this ordinance and any subsequent ordinances of Council. If Council wanted to, you could set forth all the details right now in this ordinance.

I understand that. It should be left to the professionals. My concern about this particular bill, it seems like people haven't had, in their minds, the appropriate dialog to come up with recommendations to oppose certain recommendations beyond this public hearing. And I'm wondering during the process of this bill ultimately becoming a law and the administrative implementation of the system 141 10/12/04 - L&I - BILL 040595 that there can be input both by Councilmembers and by representatives of the tow industry so at the end game what we ultimately end up with is something that people, to a large degree, are comfortable with as opposed to just authorizing it, walking away, not having any say so.

I can't promise you in the end whether people will or won't be comfortable, but I can assure you that the Police Department in establishing the procedures will be happy to accept input from both the towing industry as well as Councilmembers.

May I interject something? I believe that the ordinance as is presently written has no standards as such for the establishment of a rotational system. It assumes that a rotational system is the answer. But the only thing it seems to say is that there's some form of competitive process, whatever that may mean. Quite frankly, I think that's kind of like -- it tells you 142 10/12/04 - L&I - BILL 040595 nothing.

Councilman and Counselor, if I may. Sergeant Healy, could you help us with that? I'm tending to think that the Police Department should be involved to a point, but they shouldn't be setting the parameters. There could be some input from a lot of people in this room, not necessarily the people at this desk, but from the people that are going to speak next. What do you say? SERGEANT HEALY: What we do is, routinely, the ordinance sets the parameters. Administratively, we direct the Police Department to come up with the operational ABCs, how it's done, but we wouldn't come up with any specific parameters. The law itself is what it is. The rotational system will be set in place. How we administer it is really all administrative, so how the police officer will respond, who they contact, what they do, but it will all be within parameters of the existing ordinance as it is. We wouldn't create new standards that will expand the 143 10/12/04 - L&I - BILL 040595 scope of the ordinance in any way.

You all right with that, Councilman Clarke?

Actually, I think Councilman Rizzo who is the sponsor of the bill had some thought to some degree.

We have another panel yet. And obviously, in my mind, I know where we need to be with this. But being known as a reasonable man, I will listen to the additional witnesses and we'll make a recommendation to the Chair. But I think we have to finish and listen to the rest of our witnesses before I can make that decision.

That's fair. Is there anybody else on this Panel?

Councilman, we have two gentlemen that want to speak briefly. In addition to that, just to answer that question specifically, the only parameter that's set is a rotational system but they don't describe what that means.

And that's something we'll work on. 144 10/12/04 - L&I - BILL 040595 State your name for the record.

My name is Joseph DiCastlenuova. I own Advance Collision Works, Car Star. It's a franchise shop. I own two locations, one in the State of New Jersey and one in Philadelphia. I know New Jersey doesn't have any clout here, but I'll give you an example. I put a shop together four years ago in the State of New Jersey. They consist of a rotation area. I'm a direct repair center for most insurance companies in the city where I am in New Jersey. It's basically that anything happens in my area, I can't get no 16 towing. They created the super wreck-chaser basically is what it is. The guy on the rotation list has come to my shop and has offered me to pay him a percentage to bring me the work. I have gone to boroughs -- again this is New Jersey, but I have gone to the boroughs to get onto the rotation list. I will not meet the criteria. They already told me don't even try to meet the criteria, even if I invested hundreds of thousands of dollars 145 10/12/04 - L&I - BILL 040595 into it. I was born and raised in the City of Philadelphia. I now own a shop in Philadelphia. I was in the towing business for years. I have now put a shop together 7 in South Philly, 1021 Snyder Avenue. Again, 8 it's also a franchise location. And I don't 9 have no problem with receiving my tows the way 10 I do. I represent 21 employees that feeds 11 about 50 people, total people. I am in the 12 process of closing down my New Jersey location 13 because I can't make it there. To bring the 14 employees -- I have five employees there. I 15 will have a total of 21 employees in my location in Philadelphia. Where I'm going to manage to put them people, I have no idea. It's not big enough. But I'm looking to provide to try to feed them any way possible. Again, just about 50 my shop alone feeds. I enjoy the fact that I am able to contact my local tower to send him out to retrieve any vehicles that I need to be towed to my location. I pay him whatever the fee is. And that's basically it. 146 10/12/04 - L&I - BILL 040595

We're not talking about that process.

If I don't have that opportunity to call my local tower --

You do.

If I have a customer who was in an accident --

We're talking about an issue that we've been describing all day. We're talking about wreck-chasers. You're not talking about wreck-chasers. I'm talking about the radio listeners, if we want to call them that -- and if we wanted to stop you, if we wanted to cut off the radio communications, we could do it just like that. Every police car has a data terminal in it where every job that goes out could be given out where you could never hear it. Same with fire. So if we want to cut you off, we can cut you off by 6 o'clock tonight.

It's too expensive.

No, it's not. We 147 10/12/04 - L&I - BILL 040595 have them already in the cars. In there. All we have to do is change the way we dispatch the jobs and wreck-chasing is gone. So what you just described a minute ago is not, in my opinion, we're not talking about wreck-chaser.

Well, I'm looking at it as being a small business in the City of Philadelphia. I'm looking at 50 people I'm feeding. Now, use me as an example. If I'm feeding 50 people, how many are they feeding?

We understand, but we have some people over here that feed people too.

Now, once those people who meet that criteria of becoming on that rotation list, now your categorizing all these guys as wreck-chasers.

Not at all.

You're using the term "wreck-chaser."

I'm talking about people that do what we described. And we were 148 10/12/04 - L&I - BILL 040595 told -- when I asked the question "Are you a wreck-chaser," we were told no. I believe that. If somebody wants to start telling us who the wreck-chasers are -- you're going to eventually to address that issue.

We'll police the people that are in the Association. We will make sure that those bad seeds are weeded out. That's guaranteed. UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: I'm a wreck-chaser. I'm an American citizen. I was born and raised in South Philly. I was brought up and raised as a child I was told --

You've got my word you're going to get to speak. It's probably better if we let them finish and then -- UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: He was asking who the wreck-chasers are. I'm proud of who I am.

Please, let me run this. We're going to get to you. I want you to be here. UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: I'm proud of 149 10/12/04 - L&I - BILL 040595 who I am. I'm not earning a dishonest living.

And you know what? We're going to find that out. We're not saying you are. Hold on, we're going to get to you. Hold the enthusiasm and you'll have your time. We're going to get to this. I'm running this meeting. Just so you know -- the same with him, I'm running this and it's going to be fair or I'm not going to be here. Not everybody's going to be happy when they leave today. (Applause.)

That's not what this is for. I appreciate it. But let me tell you something. Not everybody is going to be happy, because I'm not happy all the time. I'm sad every morning when I've got to call my son to get him up for work. That's a whole other story. But what we're going to do here is work this out. It may not happen tonight. He might not be real happy but he'll be happy again because he's got an issue here that has to be addressed. It's a problem. We're going to get to you. 150 10/12/04 - L&I - BILL 040595 So you speak because you didn't say anything yet. Then we'll get to the big guys here because the big guns are next. There's millions of dollars over there in that corner.

Super wreck-chasers. If you put all these people together, there's a million dollars over here too, Councilman Mariano. Thank you. My name is Joseph Ditillo. I own Auto Max Collision. My company employs the same, it feeds about 50 people. These gentlemen here that are behind me that just got up and starting, "who's a wreck-chaser," they refer me work. It's an important part for me to have the work. And I too -- a gentleman back here stated that 10 years ago, calls stopped coming into him. Well, 10 years ago calls stopped coming in to me too. The big insurance companies with their steering and direct repair took that away from me. Now I depend on people that are my friends, my relatives, my companions in this team effort to keep small business in 151 10/12/04 - L&I - BILL 040595 Philadelphia alive and doing well. We got done on body shops with saving deductibles. I'm a body shop owner. Do I save a deductible? Sometimes I do, absolutely. When a women comes in with three children, a single parent, she's paying an extreme amount of insurance money in the City of Philadelphia and tells me, "I don't have $500 to fix my car" --

Do you do the same thing with the good-looking young woman too?

Absolutely. As far as putting bad parts on and after-market parts, well, there's insurance companies that require us to put on these after-market parts. State Farm was sued for their after-market part program. They no 20 longer put after-market parts on, but they can put used parts on vehicles; that's acceptable.

As long as you say they're used, right?

I'm here just to get you guys to help small business people. We 152 10/12/04 - L&I - BILL 040595 don't have college educations.

I hear you. We hear you.

And we need Council's help. And that's all I want to say. Thank you.

Thank you for your honesty and candor. The next panel, what I refer to as the big guns, truck owners and operators. DiCicco Automotive Group, Guido DiCicco; Morton Towing and Recovery, Joseph F. Parente, owner; Philadelphia Towers and Salvers Association, Ed Alfano; and George Smith Towing.

Members of Council, Chairman Mariano, my name is Ed Alfano. I'm the owner of Century Motors. We've been in business for 30 years. I'm a member and a representative of Philadelphia Authorized Towers and Salvers. That's the association that presently does the contract work towing of abandoned vehicles and recovered stolen vehicles that Sergeant Fran Healy had 153 10/12/04 - L&I - BILL 040595 mentioned earlier. I'd like to clarify a few things about the rotation system. First of all, I'm in full support of Councilman Rizzo's bill, the way it was redesigned and with a couple of changes that were made. I have no problems with all the towers, not only our association. These other towers could be a member of the rotation system and play the same game and I think it's fair for all of us as long as we're based in Philadelphia. I just want to clarify a couple things about the program. Sergeant Healy explained that the program was started in 1999, the recover theft program. I helped co-author it. This program works in a way that in minutes response time there is a 19 tow truck on the scene to bring in a recovered 20 stolen vehicle. Contrary to what you have heard, the Police Department doesn't have an extra job. The police officer comes there, he finds a recovered theft, we take the car within 20 minutes, we bring it to a safe location. 154 10/12/04 - L&I - BILL 040595

What happens when that happens? There's an accident, you get a call?

Not an accident.

When you get a call to get this car, where does it originate from?

Police radio.

All right. Police radio calls --

Police radio calls either one of the vendors. There are 10 vendors that work geographically. Out of the 10 vendors, geographically you can handle the whole City. We handle the whole City with -- 11 vendors, I'm sorry, right now. Geographically, there's not a problem. Policeman manpower there's not a problem. Tow trucks there's not a problem. The first year, 1999 that this program was in its inception, we towed 12,000 cars. There was some talk about revenue to the City. It's a great thing. The first year we made almost a million dollars for the City. 155 10/12/04 - L&I - BILL 040595 We continue to do so. So there is revenue. The fellow that came up here and testified that he was interested in revenue for the City, I understand his point and it's a good idea if you're doing something and you're making money for the City, it makes you a little bit more important. The program works very successfully. Everyone in this room from the insurance companies, everyone in this room from body shops comes to our places and gets their vehicle and they get it at a fair rate. There's no exorbitant charges. There's fair charges. The charges are based from the City of Philadelphia. The Police Department and Licenses and Inspections monitors the program. So if you say that the rotation don't work, it's not true because it does work. We've been doing it for five years.

Can you empathize with these guys like the guy that stood up and said, "I'm a wreck-chaser"? He's out there hustling. That's you 20 years ago.

Absolutely. I 156 10/12/04 - L&I - BILL 040595 empathize with everyone. And I say that these guys shouldn't be excluded. Nobody should be excluded. If the City of Philadelphia wants to put a program together for towers on a rotation system, everybody has to be able to be a player. Nobody should be excluded. Everybody should in some capability, in some facet -- and I know most of these guys.

What's the details on something like that? How does a young guy with his first truck that's hustling to make that nut every month compete with you or him.

If a guy's a tow man and a guy wants to tow in this program, he could tow for anybody. He doesn't have the wherewithal himself --

Let me get a little more specific. This guy is from Juniata Park. He lives across the street from me. He's not, but he could be. Is he going to get to run down to where one of the brothers wanted to go down South Philadelphia or is he just going to get stuff in Northeast? 157 10/12/04 - L&I - BILL 040595 Can he get on line for everyone?

Councilman, the way we work right now, the City of Philadelphia, the Police Department places the tow truck operators geographically. It doesn't mean that the biggest get the most. I may have the biggest place, and I do. I don't get the most. They get an equal amount. That would be the fair way to do it.

That's all run out of the Police Department Special Operations?

Special Operations, Neighborhood Services, yes.

I remember the sergeant's name.

Delaqua.

Right, and they seem like pretty decent guys.

The Police Department's very satisfied the way this program works. It works fairly. There's no problems with it. The revenue is there. And there's no reason why everybody can't be a player. You don't 158 10/12/04 - L&I - BILL 040595 have to be the biggest guy, you don't have to have a $500,000 truck. Everybody could be a player. It's got to be fair.

Is there anybody that's involved in this program that you're in that just started out?

I can attest to everything being done fairly.

Anthony, grab the mike and say your name.

My name is Anthony Boyle. I'm represent K&A Auto Salvage in Philadelphia. I recently just became a salver in the past year or two. And everything is run fairly, just like Eddie spoke. He has the biggest yard, 10 times the size of mine, but I get the same amount of cars that he gets every day.

Well, you can empathize with these young guys here. They see guys like Eddie and go, "Wow, if I can be like Eddie. And I just want a fair shot." They're willing to work for it.

I've seen that also. 159 10/12/04 - L&I - BILL 040595 But everything that Eddie is speaking is the truth. Everything is run fairly. There's an even amount of cars given to each salver every day. Everything is done fairly.

And let's say something about the other people that were here, if I may, Councilman.

Sure.

You have people from the insurance industry. You have people from Enterprise Rent A Car. You have some people that have horror stories. Not everybody's involved in the horror stories because there's just some bad apples in the barrel. But the people come to our facilities to claim cars come at a reasonable rate, they come in a secure environment, nobody gets gouged, there's no complaints. That's what I'm saying about being fair. Most of the guys that came up here and testified at one time or another have been in our places. And the way that the police run the program and License and Inspections, this program runs completely fair. There's no gouging. Nobody gets hurt. 160 10/12/04 - L&I - BILL 040595 There was a guy that talked here from AAA. If AAA had any issues about a car that was left at the scene of an accident and went someplace, if in the rotation system one of any of the rotaters, any of the vendors brought that car to their facilities, the guy would be treated fair. He would pay half the charges. He would pay less than half of the charges.

My thing here is -- this is why we get the big bucks to make these big decisions. This is a great idea, and this is going to happen one way or the other, but it's not going to happen probably the way Councilman Rizzo wants it today. We're going to work this out because we still have some people we want to talk to. But I need everybody -- the problem -- and Councilman Clarke said it. He left, but he's coming back. What happens is we go through all this work. And this is one of many things that we do. And I'm not complaining. But our staff, my legislative aid that just whispered in my ear, he's the guy that does all the 161 10/12/04 - L&I - BILL 040595 work. So you'll have somebody like that and he'll deal with your group or the other group and we get together. We think we come to some kind of conclusion, then all of a sudden, somebody throws a monkey wrench in the thing, "They don't represent us," just what Councilman Clarke said. So eventually somebody's going to leave here or the next hearing or the one after that with some hurt feelings. We're going to try to work this out, but not forever. There's a time limit on this calendar that's running. You guys can keep on talking. We're going to talk a little amongst ourselves. I still want to hear from you, but the important thing is -- and I want to hear from them guys, the guys that at least had the intestinal fortitude to stand up and say they were wreck-chasers. And guess what, we can all tell stories. I can tell a story about the other night I was at Front and Hunting Park and I saw a van turn over. And I was too small to jump in the back window because I'm short and couldn't get up. I'm jumping up. The tow truck shows up. The tow 162 10/12/04 - L&I - BILL 040595 truck driver got up and lifted me up so I could pull a family of six people out of a truck and he stayed there while the thing could have blew up. And he didn't get the tow. He didn't get that tow. Actually, he didn't get it. I never saw him again. Didn't know who he was. And it happens. There's good stories like the story one of the guys told. We have to get to a point where everybody's comfortable. Everybody's not going to be happy here. But I appreciate your experience and the stuff you do with the other program. This kind of legislation is the kind of legislation where we got to get this done. The clock is ticking. Any other witnesses want to talk at this panel? Then I want the guys that admitted to be wreck-chasers to see what a wreck-chaser really is. Go ahead.

Good afternoon, Councilman. My name is Joseph Trent. I'm the 163 10/12/04 - L&I - BILL 040595 President of the Southwest Auto Parts Association. We currently have approximately 60 members in our association which also employs four or five workers in each business.

Can you get me a fender for a '69 Caprice for the passenger side in the back?

Absolutely, in stock.

I want to buy it. But I do need one. If anybody has one, please let me know. That's personal business.

As a matter of fact, a good majority of our membership have tow trucks and do towing for a living. We are in favor of Councilman Rizzo's bill because pricing is regulated and owners have say so of where the car will be towed and who it should be towed by. We're not here to put tow trucks out of business because, like I says, I represent a lot of tow drivers and tow companies in my association, but to give everyone a fair shake, as we believe the rotation system will do. And this bill we believe will also organize the towing 164 10/12/04 - L&I - BILL 040595 system. I would like to agree with Councilman Ramos that it should be fair but something also needs to be done. And we are also here to keep business in Philadelphia. At the last hearing that we were here, it was brought up how the outsiders were able to come to Philadelphia and we weren't able to go into their municipalities. And that's also a big major thing also.

Thank you. The next witness.

My name is Richard Antonocci. I own Philadelphia Towing and Transport. I'm a licensed salver also. I also own Towing Unlimited. We've seen pros and cons for rotation, but we haven't seen any pros for against rotation. The rotation works as a process. The law works. It's a good law. People are saying they don't want to be disqualified, but they don't know what the qualifications are yet. But I do know at the end of the day, the ends have to justify the means. And that's what's most important for everybody. If you have thoughts and theories, 165 10/12/04 - L&I - BILL 040595 then say them, but we need a solution. And rotation is the solution. Thank you.

Thank you. Anthony come on.

My name is Anthony Boyle, and as I said, I represent K&A Auto Salvage. I support the bill. And I also can understand why people are afraid of it. But just like Mr. Antonocci just said, they really don't know what they need to do to qualify because I myself, as I said, just got started. I didn't have any trucks. I now have two trucks of my own and I just recently got started. And I'm just here to say that this system is very fair. And I think once people get more informed about the procedures and everything that they'll be more for it. It's the fear of the unknown, you know.

I appreciate it. That's really good to come from someone that worked himself up. Anybody else?

My name is Joseph Parente. I own Morton Towing and Recovery. 166 10/12/04 - L&I - BILL 040595 Along with this bill, the values of this rotation works very well already with the stolen. And it does bring in revenue into the City of Philadelphia. And that can also be applied towards this accident-type rotation. We do bring in a good revenue to the City and I believe this can also bring in good revenue. And my company does support this bill.

Thank you. Anybody else? You want to go?