And when you say you're coming back after them, is there an avenue to prosecute? This has had to have 81 10/12/04 - L&I - BILL 040595 happened before. Would you call the DA's office or at least the police department to find out why somebody has a car?
We have tried to prosecute some of these people at one point in time as well.
Have you ever had any cars that you couldn't get back for two or three months because of arguments?
I wouldn't say two or three months but, you know, a month goes by -- a lot of times, too, once they find out who the registered owner is, they're not calling us. It's like a game of chess, it's a game of chance. Basically you call them and, do you get an answer? You don't get an answer. They don't answer the phone. And then, what is the fee? Is it 500 today? Maybe it's 1500. It's all random.
That's got to be a hard enough thing to do for the guy that said he comes to work with a couple thousand dollars everyday. But you, how many cars do you have out on the street that could get in 82 10/12/04 - L&I - BILL 040595 an accident over a weekend? You couldn't carry that much money in your pocket nor would I want you to. So you just wouldn't deal with it, right?
We have a lot of our preferred body shops that we use. Some of them will do some of this leg work for us. That's what puts them at strain as well, it takes them away from their core area, their business as well.
These preferred body shops that you're using, they're people that -- you say preferred. That might not be the right word. They're body shops that you have experience with?
I guess it's preferred. When you've got guys that you've been dealing with that you trust, you don't have to think twice about it.
Trust is a big part of this who industry, insurance, body shop, whatever you -- that's what life is all about. 83 10/12/04 - L&I - BILL 040595
So if you were doing business with somebody that turned out to be a little shady, Enterprise wouldn't be doing business with them a second time, right?
No, it's done. It's not baseball. You don't get three strikes.
It's different if it happens to someone like them ladies, because they might never go through this the rest of their life, this might be a one -- it's like buying a house, it could be a one-time thing.
The next panel will be Panel 5, tow truck drivers, John Mattioni, attorney for Tow Truck Drivers and Operators in Philadelphia; Joseph Ditillo, Joe DiCastlenuova and Anthony DiCastlenuova.
Mr. Chairman, I'm here on behalf of this organization, Tow Truck Operators of Philadelphia. 84 10/12/04 - L&I - BILL 040595 Before I get to my prepared remarks, which are brief, I've already submitted extensive comment and submitted that to all of the Committee Members. I don't propose to respond to the City Solicitor's Office comments today. I think the written comments and written remarks extensively deal with those issues. The one thing that was notably absent by the remarks from the City Solicitor's Office was any reference to not federal preemption and those thorny issues, but the relationship between the Pennsylvania Motor Vehicle Code and this Committee's authority to act in certain areas related to regulation of towing in Philadelphia. But our main thrust has nothing to do with the legal aspect; it has to do with the practical effect of what this body may do upon my clients. One of the things that struck me as critical here is that we didn't see the results of any formal studies, anybody actually sitting down and doing an analysis of what the real problems are. We've heard anecdotal stories about what happens from time 85 10/12/04 - L&I - BILL 040595 to time. And we know that, yes, some of these things do happen, but we don't know for sure exactly who the culprit is. My impression in listening today is that perhaps the major culprit are a bunch of unscrupulous body shops, but we know that not every body shop is unscrupulous. We know that there's finger-pointing at tow truck operators, but we know that most of them are probably honest, law-abiding business people. And yet we sort of paint with a broad brush a whole industry. And we'll get to that industry in a moment. One of the things that is of concern here is that it sounds as though the primary concern is not safety, but consumer protection. I have to, with all due respect to the Committee, suggest that that may be an area which is entirely preempted by the federal legislation and not delegated by the state legislation. The other thing that's of concern is that in looking at the impact of a rotation system as described here -- and it's not fully described. We're really told that we want to 86 10/12/04 - L&I - BILL 040595 have a rotation system but leave it to the City, perhaps the Police Department, perhaps the License and Inspection Department, to come up with a system that we can all have confidence in. Well, with all due respect again, we have more confidence if the Council was actually dictating what that system is rather than leaving it to the City Administration. I think the perfect illustration is we heard that when tow truck operators started to be licensed, that's when a tremendous amount of problems in the last 10 years seem to have accumulated. The other thing is that the legislation is based in terms of a rotational system based on some form of competitive process. I'm not sure that that's not just substituting one competition for another, but it's certainly not well defined at this point. Nothing that has been said has suggested that in fact the rotation system, some rotation system, will or will not work. " Well, New York City may have one and it may 87 10/12/04 - L&I - BILL 040595 work, but nobody's done a study to figure that out. We don't want to be the guinea pigs for an experiment. If you're going to do something, we'd like you to do it after you fully investigate it and determine that it has a chance of curing the problems that really exist. There are other technical issues of concern related to pricing and so on which we, with all due respect, have to suggest should be considered as either preempted by the federal legislation and not delegated by the state legislation. I am, as I said, here on behalf of the Tow Truck Operators of Philadelphia to provide an overview of the Association's position and introduce some of its members who will speak in its behalf.
We have Joseph DiTillio, Joseph DiCastlenuova, Anthony DiCastlenuova and a person not on your list, Mr. Havano Pena (ph), who would also like to speak briefly. He's a tow truck driver; he's not an owner and he's not an operator. He'd like to present that point of view as well. 88 10/12/04 - L&I - BILL 040595 The Tow Truck Operators of Philadelphia was organized a little more than a month ago as a local trade organization representing tow truck operators in the City. The purpose of the organization is to further their legitimate goals. All of the members are duly licensed tow truck operators. And I want to make sure you understand the distinction. We believe that the major problem with tow truck operators may be a large body of tow truck operators who are not licensed. And that's a failure on the part of the City of Philadelphia, and that's one the reasons why we have reservations about how much we can rely on the City to regulate towing. There are about 2600 licensed tow trucks operating in the City, many of which are owned and operated by our Association members. Our members and their employees and staff provide an invaluable service to the community. And despite the problems, I think the value of the service to the community is irreparable. They represent small businesses 89 10/12/04 - L&I - BILL 040595 employing drivers, helpers, mechanics, body repair experts, clerks and other administrative employees. They purchase goods and services from other businesses. They pay their taxes to the City and elsewhere. They are representative of that extremely important segment of the community, the small business owner and operator, so vital to the City's economy. I think that's being overlooked in the suggestion of let's just go ahead and get a rotational system without really thinking it through and what the impact will be on legitimate tow truck operators and legitimate body shop owners. Literally thousands are employed in the industry and related business. More thousands depend on towing and related concerns for support. As some of these speakers today will tell you, licensed tow truck operators also provide many incidental services and secondary benefits which may not be so obvious to the average citizen. All you've heard about are the horror stories. But what about those other stories, the 90 10/12/04 - L&I - BILL 040595 stories about the heroic tow truck operator who gets to the scene of the accident first and realizes that there's serious injuries and makes sure that emergency medical services are called because they're there before the Police Department. What about the tow truck operators that help lift up and provide services where they can't even get compensated and help to protect victims of an accident at the scene. Our Association opposes the rotational towing system as described in this bill. As counsel to the Association, we've prepared, as I've already mentioned, lengthy memorandum and other legal support for our evaluation of the bill, and we've summarized all of our conclusions related specifically to the rotational system. We have provided you with copies of these documents in an effort to highlight some of the legal problems with the bill. I do not intend to address that issue further. The legal issues are complex, they're difficult, they are deserving of the attention of this Committee and of this body. 91 10/12/04 - L&I - BILL 040595 If you have questions, I'll try to answer them, but I don't want to take up the time of others at this point. The remaining speakers for our Association are tow truck operators and other members of the Association. Some will testify about the nature of the towing business and the reasons why we believe the rotational system, as proposed, will not work. The challenges of legitimate tow truck operators in the City are great. The cost of applying and maintaining a tow truck in Philadelphia is substantial.
Most of the Association's members have invested over a hundred thousand dollars per tow truck. So it's not insubstantial. In fact, it's quite substantial when considering, as I mentioned, that there are 2600 or more licensed tow trucks in the City. One of the problems, obviously, is the failure to enforce the licensing laws that are already on the books. The members of our Association believe that the rotational system as proposed will stifle competition and will pave the way for adversely affecting towers and all the 92 10/12/04 - L&I - BILL 040595 businesses that depend on that. Our members are convinced that the logistics involved in implementing a rotational system will put many of them out of business. Also, it will be detrimental to providing quick, efficient, professional towing services and related assistance to the drivers on our streets and highways who are victims of accidents. Our Association suggests strongly that you take a good hard look to determine what the actual problems are that exist in the present system and then develop solutions that make sense. There are many good ideas being discussed to address the particular problems associated with unlicensed towers. However, the solution embodied in the regulation of towing in the City must be carefully thought through and targeted so it can solve the problems without putting small licensed tow truck operators out of business. As I mentioned, we don't see evidence in these hearings, in these proceedings or at any other time of any real active investigation and study of the towing 93 10/12/04 - L&I - BILL 040595 industry in this City. And without that, we submit that, first of all, it would run contrary to Pennsylvania law under the Motor Vehicle Code, but more importantly, it will make us the guinea pigs of an experiment on rotational towing and a rotational towing system without knowing whether it's got even a chance or hope of working. There's much at stake here for the members and the City. Thank you very much for the opportunity to provide my testimony on behalf of the Association.
Thank you, Mr. Mattioni. Councilwoman Brown has a question for you.
Good afternoon. Do you believe there is a problem as defined here today? Do you believe that there's a problem?
We believe that there are several problems related to the subject of tow truck operation. One of them that we believe is critical and should be directly 94 10/12/04 - L&I - BILL 040595 addressed and managed is the proliferation of unlicensed tow trucks on the street. Our members are all licensed operators.
Counselor, in all due respect, there are chasers that I see responding to wrecks in very expensive tow trucks, are licensed tow trucks. I don't see too many, what I would call gypsy tow trucks responding to westbound at Girard when there's a multi-vehicle accident. There are very expensive, very fancy, well-known names on the side of them with the license sticker on them. Since I've been involved in this issue, I've been paying attention. And there may be gypsy tow trucks out there, but they're not the ones that went and bought the $800 scanner to monitor police radio and fire radio.
If you're suggesting that the scanners are the root of some form of evil, we'd have to respectfully disagree with 95 10/12/04 - L&I - BILL 040595 you, Councilman. As a matter of fact, we consider that as one of the incidental benefits because legitimate tow truck operators do arrive on the scene early and are able to and, in fact, do provide assistance. And I think that's one of the points that is sorely missed here.
Mr. Mattioni, on a risk of sounding like Yogi Berra, this is like deja vu all over again. We did this before. Didn't I try to do this once? Didn't Councilman Kenney try to do this once? Now, I'm looking at guys here. There are some faces I know. I've got to find out from this panel -- and Councilman Rizzo can certainly answer this for me or anyone here. Who's doing this? I mean, who are the bad guys? Certainly, it's not you or you because I know you; it's not you. I can vouch for you; it's not you. These guys are paying these lawyers to do things and he's doing a good job, but as Council people, as elected officials, we're basically very weak-willed. We don't want to hurt anybody's feelings, but 96 10/12/04 - L&I - BILL 040595 we will. Now, you can see his back's up so he's got a problem and he's jumping around pretending he's running this Committee. He's not. But he's doing a job because he believes in something. I don't necessarily agree with him, I don't necessarily disagree with him. There is problem. Can we all recognize the fact that there is a problem? If the Staff Inspector who is the captain on the highway, who for a cop can ride the motorcycle pretty good because I rode with him, if he can tell me something and vouch for it, I think it's pretty good. So somebody was going the wrong way down the street. And if that guy was in here today, he would tell me. I see people around here that I know. Somebody tell me what's going on here because we're going to have to make a decision. And as weak-will elected officials, we don't want to hurt anybody's feelings. But we will. So let's work this out like men. I'm going to save you a whole lot of money today. We can all go up to Harvard and 97 10/12/04 - L&I - BILL 040595 go to John F. Kennedy School that I went to because the union sent me years ago. And 4 we get to a point, it's called if I go this 5 way and break my back, I lose. If I go this 6 way and the other guy breaks his back, we got 7 to get the "yes yes." The "yes yes" is right 8 in the middle here. I want you to bend a 9 little and we're going to bend a little. And 10 I'll do a lot of bending here. 11 Now, he's on the fast track to get 12 this out of committee today. They gave us 13 some amendments and the City lawyer is over 14 there working some amendments. Help us out 15 here. Because this is going to happen 16 somehow, in some form. And I think you guys 17 in this room -- we'll stay here all night. 18 Guys, get up here and help us out. I'll hold 19 this a little, but it has to eventually work 20 out. Let's figure out -- no disrespect to you. You're a paid lawyer and you did a good job. I want these guys to tell me what's going on.
I know you do, but let me tell you one thing, though. One of the 98 10/12/04 - L&I - BILL 040595 things that I know that my clients, at least, hope to get out of this hearing is an opportunity to sit down and meet with the Committee members, the staff, the City. We want to work with the City to come up with solutions. Our problem is that we're not sure we know fully what the specific answers are to and even what the specific issues are, because we've heard a lot of problems with other than tow trucks. And these fellows can talk for themselves. But we don't want to come in here saying, "No, absolutely not." What we want to do is come up with something sensible.
Listen. Every time the City tries to do something, there's 50 one way and 50 the other. I always think of the liquor by the drink tax. Depending on who you're talking to, it was a great tax. There's fewer bars around in Philadelphia today. The corner bars are gone. People from out of town like McFadden come in and buy these places and it's not the same kind of business. But I like local businessmen. I don't want the City doing the deal that's 99 10/12/04 - L&I - BILL 040595 going to bring a big insurance company in here and control all that. And it's pure and simple. Because I don't know them. They're not going to help me when I need help to ask them to do something. I know some of these guys and they're only going to lie to me once. Most of them won't lie to me or anybody on this Committee even once. We want to be kind and we want to work this out. So if these guys can give us some stories and help us get to a point where it can be a win/win. If it's not today, I see this thing coming around the corner. It just keeps coming back and back. It's time for you all to reach inside yourself -- it's not a good analogy, but an elected official gave a speech about six months ago and he started the story. As soon as he started the story, I went "Boy, he's going to say something today that really shocks everybody." I don't expect anything that shocking to come out of this hearing. That's a totally different subject, but you guys got to reach inside yourself and show us something here so we can work this out 100 10/12/04 - L&I - BILL 040595 so we can do our job as elected officials. But you guys can make money and pay taxes. There's some bad guys in this business. You've got to tell us who they are and how we regulate it so we don't put you out of business. If it's not regulation, then say that. If it's the state that should be saying -- you made yourself clear. Can we hear some stories from these guys? Anthony.
Although it's a good idea to put into effect rotation, it's not the proper way to correct an industry that has problems. The reason why, economically, geographically, it wouldn't benefit the City of Philadelphia or the people that make up the City of Philadelphia. A lot of statements here seems like it's more on the repairs of the vehicle and not what we're here to discuss about towing. With that in mind, statistically there's 2,623 individual tow trucks licensed in the City of Philadelphia. Approximately 5,000 employees 101 10/12/04 - L&I - BILL 040595 would be needed for something like that if it's an around-the-clock situation.
Well, a 24-hour operation, you would need two drivers at least to operate.
Let me ask you this while you're on that. To do this, what's it cost to buy one of these trucks? Upwards of --
In a yearly expense to have a tow truck, including the payments you have involved, the liability you have with the truck insurance, anywhere from 10,000 to $12,000 a year to insure the vehicle, the maintenance, to keep a driver on even if he's at an hourly rate, you're going to spend about $100,000 at the end of the year.
That's correct. You're going to need a lot of 102 10/12/04 - L&I - BILL 040595 rotation calls. Geographically that can't work because here I am sitting in one area and I'm called -- they made a statement earlier, the statement, that no logical or systematic way to establish towing could be put into effect, was his words. And he was for rotation. So I have to go with that. Another statement was made that there would be no area set aside for any individuals. So if my business is established on Front and Oregon Avenue and there's a call for an accident to clear the highway, there's 3,000 vehicles in rush hour traffic that are at a standstill and a highway patrolman needs a tow truck and he calls me from Front and Oregon, I'm on the rotation list now, I have to go all the way up South Street on the Schuylkill Expressway, it's going to be a long time getting home. I hope you're not looking for a hot dinner. With that, economically, it can't work out. If you're on the list and there's 2,600 drivers or tow trucks that have to be called periodically, there's no way to make 103 10/12/04 - L&I - BILL 040595 those payments. It can work for a handful of individuals, individuals. 4 And also, there's going to be 5 requirements for equipment. Certain 6 individuals cannot provide their company with 7 that equipment; it's too expensive. If you're 8 on the rotation, do you have to be ready to 9 tow a 10-ton truck or a 3-ton car? The amount 10 of equipment you're talking about is probably in the millions of dollars invested. And another thing, it would eventually correct a monopoly. If anyone is given that opportunity that has that kind of money to establish that kind of company there's nothing going to stop them from then getting a satellite office so-to-speak at Front and Oregon, a satellite office at the end of the expressway, a satellite office in North Philadelphia and so on. There's nothing to stop them. That's happening now in New Jersey. The State of New Jersey has large companies that have offices all over the place. You can call in Deptford, for instance, and talk to a dispatcher there that 104 10/12/04 - L&I - BILL 040595 your car was towed in Cherry Hill from the same company. And then they tell you to go to Turnersville to pick it up. That's not fair. Another thing is what I would propose, which I hope we would have an opportunity to sit down at a later date and discuss -- we're hoping this can be put on hold for now because I feel like with our heads put together we'd have a lot of mutual ways that this could be rectified for everyone in interest. In fact, I believe a lot of ways and ideas that I have to implicate in this situation would bring in a lot of revenue for the City of Philadelphia that right now is being lost in many ways. I think that it should be governed by L&I and should be overseen by them, but these individuals are out here hours a day trying to make a 20 dollar. They need the freedom of 21 solicitation. They need the freedom or right 22 to not go home if they need to feed their 23 children. They need their right. If they're 24 told you're on a rotation, what are they to do, sit in a vehicle all day and wait for that 105 10/12/04 - L&I - BILL 040595 call? This is an emergency-type vehicle. This is a vehicle that is needed in an emergency case. A highway patrolman is going to want that vehicle removed quickly. He's not going to sit and wait. That's his highway, he's responsible to keep that clear, keep it safe. If there's congestion and then fights break out because they're sitting in traffic for three hours, nobody's going to be happy. If this was implicated on a rotation, I could see it happening for quite a few days, months maybe, but not long term, not long term. And another thing, I cannot myself perceive any way that economically it can help the City; only hurt the City. These gentlemen that are out here hours trying to make a 19 dollar, I hope are responsible for their 20 taxes.
The companies that own the trucks are 21 providing lots of revenue in taxes in many 22 different ways. These trucks burn up $200 or 23 3, $400 a week in gas to be out there. 24 There's a gas tax. When we purchase the vehicle, there's a sales tax. There's a wage 106 10/12/04 - L&I - BILL 040595 tax. There's a City tax. There's an income tax. For 2,623 towed vehicles, that's approximately 175-odd thousands of dollars that the City takes in in revenue. If you cut it down and say, here's the of you to go 7 tow our cars when we call you with no revenue 8 involved from what I can see and they're 9 paying $75 for their license, here you've cut 10 it approximately 174,000 -- it doesn't seem economically feasible. There are many other ways to work this out for everyone; more so the City than ourselves. And the statements that I've heard today are not zoning in on the towing industry and why there's nothing detrimental to stop us from towing freely on the streets, from what I heard. If an individual chooses to speak with somebody that comes to her door about their car, first of all, that information could be given freely from overhearing the police officer discuss it. It doesn't mean that they had to run a tag or a license or what-have-you. That could just have been eavesdropping. And if they choose to go with 107 10/12/04 - L&I - BILL 040595 that person or not, that's their own prerogative.
I ask you this question respectfully. Are you a wreck-chaser?
Wreck-chasers is a broad term of calling a tow truck operator who's out there and sees a wreck happen -- I mean, what are you defining as a wreck-chaser?
I'm talking about the multi thousand dollar tow truck, all chrome, the antennas, sitting in the zoo lot waiting for T-band to broadcast an auto accident. I'm talking about the vehicle that came down the on-ramp the wrong direction from the zoo lot to respond to an accident to be first. Do you do that? 108 10/12/04 - L&I - BILL 040595
No, I personally do not do that. But out of 2,223, that's large numbers to have a vehicle on the City streets. Granted, any large number situation there's got to be good and bad. There has to be a problem area somewhere. There are X amount thousands of buses and cabs on the street. If we were to break it down and figure it out percentage-wise, I'm sure the cabs and buses cause more accidents and more problems individually than tow trucks do even on a percentage basis broken down. But now with the wreck-chasers, so-called -- I'll call them for radio listeners. When they're out there listening to the radios, they're also waiting for a private individual to call them and say, "I need your assistance." Back approximately eight years ago, I was listening to a radio when I was driving a tow truck. And I heard come over the radio in the 1st District that there was a need for police and fire. They needed a rescue unit. It came over the radio several times and I 109 10/12/04 - L&I - BILL 040595 couldn't understand why at first. Finally, the police officer came over and said there's a child pinned under a forklift, a very heavy piece of equipment. After the third or fourth time it came over, I thought to myself while I was out there and I was younger, I said, let me drive to this situation and see if there's any assistance I can provide. Fortunately for that child I was listening to that radio. I arrived at the scene with police there, many units, and they couldn't do anything with that forklift. They frankly called for a rescue unit. They couldn't get a truck there quick enough. I responded. A sergeant came over to me and asked me if I could be of assistance. I proceeded to back my truck up, extended by boom, put the hook onto the forklift and lifted it out from on top of the child. The next day, the police captain, lieutenant, everyone came to my facility and thanked me along with the father of what I did. Fortunately, the child only had a broken ankle. But it hurt. He was in pain for a lot of time. And if I wasn't monitoring or 110 10/12/04 - L&I - BILL 040595 listening to that radio that day, that child would have been in pain a lot longer.
That's only one incident. But we have lists of many opportunities like that.
You talk about the highway patrol police officers. They are now part of our traffic division, the expressway unit. I have had officers tell me that it is so bad at some hits, at some accidents, where there are six or seven tow trucks fighting each other on the shoulder of the road, not just the appropriate shoulder of road, there's tow trucks on one side of the highway stopped, jump over the guardrail to come to the -- it's a zoo out there. Something has to be done.
Back when Mr. Kenney proposed a bill, I was the one that was up here. You may remember, Mr. Mariano, you were on then. And I tried my best to stand up for these gentlemen which 111 10/12/04 - L&I - BILL 040595 were times fold, I believe. We needed more seats. Anyway, they realized that something had to be done. And they stood behind me and many association fees were collected, 300 members or so at that time. I was brought into this approximately four days ago or else I think I would have prepared myself and maybe gotten in contact with you prior to -- a long time ago. Anyway, with that, when I tried to fix the problems, I realized then that there were many drivers on these trucks that did not have proper licensing. I myself will admit to having drivers at the time years ago when I had tow trucks, and sometimes you don't realize it because they'll show you a license. We're not in the predicament where we've been told before to run it, get them checked out. I don't know how to go about that if I don't have personal police officer friends. Anyway, I have myself been guilty of that. At that point, I tried to tell them what I know is a problem is congesting the highways. The police officer doesn't like 112 10/12/04 - L&I - BILL 040595 when there's trucks and one vehicle. I 3 tried stopping that back then. But the 4 problem that I had then, I didn't initiate any 5 assistance from License and Inspection, which 6 I wish I went forward and did. But everyone 7 unfortunately thought, "Oh, Anthony stopped 8 the bill. Let's go ahead and do what we've 9 been doing." They soon forget. 10 I'm back here today because I'm hoping that, like I said earlier, this gets put on hold to where we could sit down. And I believe if you take the time to sit and discuss this with me that I will create or have you realize much economic revenue and gain for the City of Philadelphia in many ways. I really wish not to go into it today because I believe it's something that needs to be drawn out, and there are lots of ways to gain money for the City of Philadelphia. A rotation will not provide you a dollar one. In fact, another point, rotation, you want to instill that where a -- you want to include that with the Live Stop. For instance, Live Stop, many of the vehicles are 113 10/12/04 - L&I - BILL 040595 taken to the City impoundment lots and they're bid off. Many times those vehicles that are taken, and I'm sure the numbers are greater than the better ones, are dilapidated vehicles. No one's going to come and claim them. There's no value to them whatsoever. When they sell, they're lucky if they get 25, $50 for them. Who's paying the rotation truck for that tow? Is the City going to pay for it and not gain what they even spent on the tow at the lot? There's more lost. First of all, there's cost to the City, there's loss to the City, there's no gain whatsoever. And the other thing is, you want to give the police another job? Call the rotation list. Joe's towing is on it. Joe's towing truck is on a private tow, he got called an hour ago, I'm sorry, he's not back yet. Wait a minute. Police officer, highway patrol, call Jim's towing. Jim's towing is not available. His wife is pregnant. He had to run to the hospital. Call Tom's towing. Here comes Tom three hours later. Is that what's going to happen with the rotation? 114 10/12/04 - L&I - BILL 040595
If you have an operation that you just described, they won't be on the list.
Okay, they get canceled. Now, the numbers are already thin because we didn't meet the criteria with equipment mainly because we can't afford it.
And what you described earlier about a tractor-trailer involved, obviously there will be people on the rotational list that have the equipment that can handle a heavy vehicle. Again, we're trying to be straight with you. You've got to be straight with us. Most of the people in the room -- not saying most. There are some people in this room that wouldn't even be able to handle that kind of a tow.
That's correct. I'm going to refer to them as the 115 10/12/04 - L&I - BILL 040595 bigwigs. The bigwigs that can buy $500,000 tow trucks can afford a fleet of 20,000, $30,000 tow trucks.
And that's why we have the police tow squad that still exists to respond when we have a situation like an overturned dump or a tractor-trailer that has the equipment that can do some of that work or contract with a company like PennDOT has to, to pull out heavy equipment.
That's another thing. When a police vehicle responds to an overturned tractor-trailer, if you ever notice, the driver in the police tow truck isn't even capable of doing anything with it. Basically, the most I've ever seen them do is prevent anyone from hindering the situation or the scene until one of these $500,000 trucks roll up and do the tow. But then again we're back to the economics of it. I don't want to get off track with who's going to do the tows if the rotation goes into effect. Economically, you'll have 10 of them. What happens to all 116 10/12/04 - L&I - BILL 040595 these men? This isn't even an eighth of what's out there. What happens to all those individuals? I believe that they can bring more revenue to the City of Philadelphia. And I think that's what it's all about, revenue. What I have to put into effect, what I'd like to discuss along with L&I as many remedies to -- if there are any in this room, if they're unlicensed, they should never be on a truck. The company that hired them should be totally responsible. They could lose their license. So many things that could be put into effect for better economic for the City and to keep these men in the resource of earning a dollar in the City. That's what they're here for. These men have elected the Councilmen and women in order to provide for them, not take from them. This is what we're hoping that Councilmembers can see that these men make up the City, these men make up the Council. You're here to protect us, not any small individuals.
Thank you, 117 10/12/04 - L&I - BILL 040595 Anthony. Councilman Ramos.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. You know, I was concerned about the one panel that stated that tow trucks drivers were overly aggressive, had information on the damaged car owner. I found that very disturbing. But I also heard the insurance, AAA, say something sympathetic toward the tow truck drivers, that they didn't want to run them out of business. I didn't quote them exactly, but I believe that was a concern of theirs as they expressed their support for a rotation system. So I've been here for most of the hearings thus far, with the exception of the first couple people from the Police Department. And all the panels thus far have been for this rotation. You're the first panel that seems to be opposed to the rotation system. But you also happen to be the people representing the tow truck drivers. All the others and their respective involvement in 118 10/12/04 - L&I - BILL 040595 this issue were for the rotation system. I'm concerned about the tow truck drivers here and their business. I'm a member of this Committee, but I head up a Committee that looks out for jobs in this City. I sure don't want to run out of business legal, licensed tow truck drivers that are not infringing on the personal information of people to continue to make a livelihood. I had an incident last year sometime. A relative is visiting from New York. She gets in an accident on 95, and three tow truck operators show up. So by the time she gets to my house and gets the car at least moved to my house, she was happy that there were three tow truck operators show up because she said that they were very nice to her and that she had to pick one. And the idea that she could pick one to get her out of that situation helped her with her nerves, was in her view a very positive thing. I don't want to see tow truck drivers run out of business, but we sure want them in this City to do the work properly, to 119 10/12/04 - L&I - BILL 040595 be safe, to be fair, get this business circulated with the auto body parts throughout the City. So yes, I have a legitimate concern about the tow truck drivers, that they not be run out of business. I hear your arguments. It's the first time this afternoon that I've heard your side, tow truck operator side of the story. I think that we need one of you, I believe, Mr. John Mattioni, right, the attorney, that's you right there, right?
You said something to the effect that you would look at, design -- that's my word -- something that was put together by City Council. I don't know how the Chairman feels about that, but that's something that you presented. You said to look into the unlicensed operators as well. Someone mentioned that there was no study on how many more good stories -- you could do a hundred good deeds, and one bad deed will always taint any profession that we happen to be in. 120 10/12/04 - L&I - BILL 040595 So I'm glad that the tow truck operators have you here. I'm glad you came to defend your bread and butter. But obviously, there has to be some readjustments in this system. And I believe that we can probably find -- we should find a way, Mr. Chairman, to come up with a comprehensive way to get this done where all of the parties are in agreement. That, one, there needs to be some changes made here in this system, but let's make them, let's make these changes so it won't hurt people that are making a livelihood in this business. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, I apologize for not being here earlier. We were out in the district touring certain locations with some people from the state and hopefully bring some housing money to the district so you understand why I had to take care of that 121 10/12/04 - L&I - BILL 040595 business. This question may have been asked. Please forgive me if it's redundant. The first thing I need to get a sense of, were there any substantive conversations or conversations at all with members of the Administration, sponsors of the bill, about crafting this legislation or any other legislation, any formal conversations?
I myself didn't have an opportunity because I was only asked to speak on everyone's behalf approximately four or five days ago. Like I said earlier, I would have gladly welcomed the opportunity to sit down prior to this day.
When you said you were asked to speak, are you representing drivers in a formal process?
I'm representing the Tow Truck Operators of Philadelphia which is the new organization that has been formed in order to --
Formed in response to this bill? 122 10/12/04 - L&I - BILL 040595
That's okay. People do that here all the time. That's fine. I just want to get a sense of the process and the history.
We had no 9 communication with any Administration representative. We've had some communications with some Councilmembers. I've tried to make it clear that we don't want to come in and just sound like obstructionists. On the other hand, when you're faced with a bill which you think can have serious economic repercussions, the major thrust of what the witnesses all seemed to say was primarily economic rather than safety.
That is correct. But we've only been involved for a little over a month, frankly. But we've had no 6 communication with anyone other than some of the Councilmembers and their staffs. So that the answer to your question is really no. 9
When is the first you had knowledge of the bill? Was it in May?
I was retained approximately five weeks ago. And until I spoke to Councilman Rizzo, I wasn't even aware that it was an Administration sponsored bill, to be honest. That was a couple weeks ago, I guess.
Once you were retained, you became aware of the bill, understandably, because that's not the business you're in. With respect to you, as an operator or --
I own a body shop. 124 10/12/04 - L&I - BILL 040595
No, I wasn't. I sort of been out of the towing business for quite sometime now. And I own and operate my own facility. I do a lot of my own work and haven't had contact with many of the men for quite sometime.
Based on what you're telling me that you've had to respond to this bill in a formal way has been somewhat limited, I'm assuming, if you just found out a week ago and you were just retained.
That's correct. I would like the opportunity to get more involved with it.
As it relates to proposals -- and I think to some degree you have talked about some of the recommendations that you think would make the industry more 125 10/12/04 - L&I - BILL 040595 user friendly for the people who have some concerns about this issue. In terms of time lines, what kind of time lines would it take you to craft something in terms of recommendations to Council?
Well, I have rough ideas that I would like to propose first to John so that we can mutually agree on what to propose to you as Council. And then from there, take maybe a handful of meetings, but I want it to be done right. As I get older, I want this fixed now. I don't want to come back here to this table 5 years from now, 10 years from now. I don't want to be approached by any one of these gentlemen and say, "Help" again. What I'd like to do is -- first time, second time is a charm. I'd like to come in now and work it out, sit down and keep something into effect permanently. That's why I feel like basically it should be governed by Licenses and Inspections. I think there should be a special unit for this. And I have a lot more to add to that. And I think then if it's 126 10/12/04 - L&I - BILL 040595 governed by some City individuals that it can then be -- the economic effect could be felt for the City. You can keep track of -- the way I have a proposal, you could keep track of the money that comes from tow companies.
All right, you're going a little beyond the question I asked. I asked you about time line.
I want a handful of meetings, whatever that would take. I'm flexible. So if it takes, say, 12 hours of meetings to meet with people, I'd like to have that. Whether that's over a course of, you want to do it in a day, you want to do it in a week or month, that's at your discretion.
It sounds like you have some recommendations, you personally and you as a group. And I'm assuming that you could put that together relatively quickly.
And as a first response to what the Administration has proposed and the sponsor of the bill, I think that should be able to be done relatively 127 10/12/04 - L&I - BILL 040595 quickly, then you can hammer out things that make sense. I mean, we found in this body sometimes when people sit down and talk about issues, more often than not they have similar interests more so than they have dissimilar interests. The other question is with respect to representation, too often we have a situation where people come in and purport themselves to be representing a group of people. And then when something gets crafted, another group of people say, "Wait a minute, they don't represent me. I have different interests." So can you here today say that you represent not only the people in this room, but the many hundreds that -- you said this is one-eighth of the tow truck drivers. Can you --
I just want to 128 10/12/04 - L&I - BILL 040595 make sure it's clear. Not everyone in this room is represented by this organization. There are people in the next panel that are not represented by this organization.
We have a limited number of actual members of this organization. We don't purport -- despite our name, we don't purport to represent the entire towing industry in Philadelphia. Essentially, we're involved with -- we would be involved in the consensual part of the business, not the non-consensual.
See, that's kind of the point I'm getting at because you -- particularly you, sir, you said that if you were able to sit down and talk to people -- sometimes you can sit down and talk to people and they don't represent anybody beyond themselves. Not suggesting that that's your case. But sometimes in a legislative body, a legislative body working with an Administration to the best of their knowledge has to craft something that they think makes some sense. Fully willing to solicit input, 129 10/12/04 - L&I - BILL 040595 but to sit down with you for hours and then a group of people over here say, "Well, I want 12 hours," and "We want 15 hours," you never get stuff done.
Because 7 of the fact that I was brought into this so 8 late in term and we're already here proposing 9 a bill, if you -- what my hope was that coming 10 out of this meeting today was if we put this 11 on hold, sort of table it for now, then 12 reviewing the facts that I brought to you and the fact that I don't want to come here five years from now --
Have you submitted anything to this body beyond your testimony?
No, I haven't. But with that, if you tell me that we can table this right now, I will then be very diligent in getting the word out to these individuals, 2,623 of them, more than what's in here, get out to them what we need to do if they want to stay in a free enterprising 130 10/12/04 - L&I - BILL 040595 business. Then I will work on that. And the next time you and I need to talk, hopefully, I will have a majority rules and we can move forward from there. And I think that's quite possible if I'm going to be involved and they'll listen to me if --
I'm only speaking for myself because ultimately the sponsor of the bill makes the decision as to whether or not he's interested in proposing holding it the whole nine yards. But I'm just trying to get a line of questioning in that puts us if there is some decision to entertain, some conversation and solicit some information for purposes of crafting something that people feel comfortable with. We have the difficulty of not knowing who's in the industry and who represents the entire industry. And I don't want to sit down and craft something and you've got the majority of people don't feel comfortable with it. So it puts us at a dilemma that if every time people come in and say, "Well, you've got to sit down and meet with these various groups before we 131 10/12/04 - L&I - BILL 040595 do something," Council never gets anything done.
So it's better for us if people submit written information that can be reviewed. I mean, this process legislatively takes a couple weeks before the bill to actually become law and then ultimately the Mayor has to sign. It's not like if we were to report out today it's going to be law.
Given the opportunity, if there is a delay or so on, however it needs to be worded, if so then I can assure you I will come back and present to you a list of names, addresses, companies, whatever of people that are really or are committed now to this towing association. They will be large numbers. I will bring them to you and submit that. And then they are going to be talked to and advised that they have to go along with the program in order to stay in business and now do they want to 132 10/12/04 - L&I - BILL 040595 become a member. So we can bring you numbers, because they are out there.
People do that to bring a whole bunch of people in, and that's great. You have to submit something in writing to review because you can't sit down and interview every individual about their recommendations. So the best way to get information to the government is do it in a written form, clearly indicating who you represent, what you represent and have people review it and do what they need to do with it.
That's the time I'm asking for, to do all that.
One last question as it relates to the process. It was my understanding that there were going to be certain zones created, geographic zones where respondents would be from those zones to respond to accidents in those zones.
That's why I said geographically. I said geographically it cannot work because the first speaker -- I forget who they were -- had 133 10/12/04 - L&I - BILL 040595 indicated that there were not zones actually, that you were going to be on a list. It will be John's, Jim's, Bob's, Bill's and so on was what he indicated.
And they get called anywhere within a certain zone, but the zones are great. Now, the way we do it, a lot of times a tow truck or the radio listeners do it, they sit in an area like, for instance, the 1st District which would consist of, say, the small radius of the City of South Philadelphia or that area. They can respond to an accident within that area at a decent amount of time not to cause severe congestion throughout the streets. So the way I understood that the rotation may work in a large zone and you're on a list, you have to be available first. You could be tied up doing something else. The individuals on a rotation list are not going to have a driver sitting in an office 134 10/12/04 - L&I - BILL 040595 twiddling his thumbs waiting for a rotation call nor will he get enough rotation calls to keep him busy for an eight-hour period, let alone any further overtime that he needs to earn. It is a very minimum pay to be a tow truck operator. This is another reason why these gentlemen are out there, some hours a 9 day. Some have slept in the trucks to try and 10 earn that dollar. So the rotation is not 11 going to provide economically for many 12 individuals. 13
It won't reduce 14 the number of accidents, right? It's still 15 going to be a number of accidents and people 16 are going to respond to those accidents. Why 17 is that going to change the economics? 18
That 19 brings up another issue. If they're called to 20 a Live Stop --
The Parking Authority does Live Stops. I just want to get some clarity. Live Stops are not done by private towers.
They're 135 10/12/04 - L&I - BILL 040595 not going to be on the rotation? I understood that if it went to rotation that they were going to be called to those also.
That's what I was told. Now, maybe I'm wrong. Like I said, I've been short on time.
The Parking Authority does that. Sergeant Healy, you want to clarify that? The current system is the Parking Authority does the towing, right? SERGEANT HEALY: Correct.
You may be confusing it with the truck lists and private towers who are towing for the Truck Enforcement, correct?
But in answer to your question, how it will effect them. For instance, say the rotation call comes for an accident. An accident on the 136 10/12/04 - L&I - BILL 040595 Expressway does not get cleared immediately. That's one point. It takes several hours sometimes, hours at a time before that tow truck can even leave that area depending on what's involved, depending on if AID is holding the scene. There's an investigation before any vehicles are touched. That rotation vehicle sits there until they're done? That's taking hours at a time. In the event that there is a disabled vehicle -- actually, another point. If a rotation vehicle is called to that accident and Jim's Towing is told by the owner of the vehicle to tow it to Bob's Autobody in Conshohocken and it's 7 o'clock at night and Bob closed at 5:00, how is that tow operator supposed to be reimbursed for that tow? Put a check in the mail to me? He has three children at home that need bread and water. And after he leaves that, he gets told, "Oh, we have a disabled vehicle blocking the Girard Avenue off ramp. Could you come and tow that?" He goes and tows that disabled vehicle. It's unattended. There's no one 137 10/12/04 - L&I - BILL 040595 there to pay him for the tow. How is he going to make a living? That tow truck could be out there for the day cost $50 in fuel, let alone all the other expenses. That's a few little incidentals why it just can't work.
Thank you. I just wanted to ask the counselor, could you provide to the Chair the list of the members of your organization? And could you, for the record today, tell me as of today how many members do you have in your Tow Truck Operators of Philadelphia Association?
Our company members, I believe, are 32 or 33; I'm not sure.
Yes. And we attached a copy to one of my letters. At the time the list was, I believe, 25. We've not misrepresented who we represent. 138 10/12/04 - L&I - BILL 040595
One last question. In the ordinance it says the establishment of a rotation method of tow truck dispatch must be approved by separate ordinance of City Council.
I believe that's the present bill, that's not the amendment.
So this essentially establishes all regulatory issues as it relates to the rotational system?
I don't believe that's correct either, Councilman. What it does is it provides the mechanism for the City then to administratively adopt a rotational system. This bill doesn't do it directly. Am I correct?
So administratively, what's the process as it 139 10/12/04 - L&I - BILL 040595 relates to City Council's involvement in implementing such a program?
What this ordinance 5 would do, Councilman, is it would authorize the Police Department to establish the rotation system. The details of that would be done by regulation of the Police Department.
My question is, how are we involved in that? Suppose we authorize you guys to come up with a process, meaning the City, the Administration, and we don't like the process.
You pass an ordinance 15 and tell the Administration that you don't like it.
So why wouldn't we just have a process that has the Council, since we're the people's elected officials, good or bad, be in a position to effect the administrative implementation of a rotation system?
I don't think there's a right way or a wrong way to do that, Councilman. Generally, my personal view of 140 10/12/04 - L&I - BILL 040595 legislation is Council should set the overall parameters, and the details of the procedures should be left to the expert body. And obviously, if Council doesn't like the way that's done, Council passes an ordinance and says, you got it wrong. But the way this ordinance was envisioned is that the details would be left to the Police Department, subject to the overall parameters set forth in this ordinance and any subsequent ordinances of Council. If Council wanted to, you could set forth all the details right now in this ordinance.
I understand that. It should be left to the professionals. My concern about this particular bill, it seems like people haven't had, in their minds, the appropriate dialog to come up with recommendations to oppose certain recommendations beyond this public hearing. And I'm wondering during the process of this bill ultimately becoming a law and the administrative implementation of the system 141 10/12/04 - L&I - BILL 040595 that there can be input both by Councilmembers and by representatives of the tow industry so at the end game what we ultimately end up with is something that people, to a large degree, are comfortable with as opposed to just authorizing it, walking away, not having any say so.
I can't promise you in the end whether people will or won't be comfortable, but I can assure you that the Police Department in establishing the procedures will be happy to accept input from both the towing industry as well as Councilmembers.
May I interject something? I believe that the ordinance as is presently written has no standards as such for the establishment of a rotational system. It assumes that a rotational system is the answer. But the only thing it seems to say is that there's some form of competitive process, whatever that may mean. Quite frankly, I think that's kind of like -- it tells you 142 10/12/04 - L&I - BILL 040595 nothing.
Councilman and Counselor, if I may. Sergeant Healy, could you help us with that? I'm tending to think that the Police Department should be involved to a point, but they shouldn't be setting the parameters. There could be some input from a lot of people in this room, not necessarily the people at this desk, but from the people that are going to speak next. What do you say? SERGEANT HEALY: What we do is, routinely, the ordinance sets the parameters. Administratively, we direct the Police Department to come up with the operational ABCs, how it's done, but we wouldn't come up with any specific parameters. The law itself is what it is. The rotational system will be set in place. How we administer it is really all administrative, so how the police officer will respond, who they contact, what they do, but it will all be within parameters of the existing ordinance as it is. We wouldn't create new standards that will expand the 143 10/12/04 - L&I - BILL 040595 scope of the ordinance in any way.
Actually, I think Councilman Rizzo who is the sponsor of the bill had some thought to some degree.
We have another panel yet. And obviously, in my mind, I know where we need to be with this. But being known as a reasonable man, I will listen to the additional witnesses and we'll make a recommendation to the Chair. But I think we have to finish and listen to the rest of our witnesses before I can make that decision.
Councilman, we have two gentlemen that want to speak briefly. In addition to that, just to answer that question specifically, the only parameter that's set is a rotational system but they don't describe what that means.
And that's something we'll work on. 144 10/12/04 - L&I - BILL 040595 State your name for the record.
My name is Joseph DiCastlenuova. I own Advance Collision Works, Car Star. It's a franchise shop. I own two locations, one in the State of New Jersey and one in Philadelphia. I know New Jersey doesn't have any clout here, but I'll give you an example. I put a shop together four years ago in the State of New Jersey. They consist of a rotation area. I'm a direct repair center for most insurance companies in the city where I am in New Jersey. It's basically that anything happens in my area, I can't get no 16 towing. They created the super wreck-chaser basically is what it is. The guy on the rotation list has come to my shop and has offered me to pay him a percentage to bring me the work. I have gone to boroughs -- again this is New Jersey, but I have gone to the boroughs to get onto the rotation list. I will not meet the criteria. They already told me don't even try to meet the criteria, even if I invested hundreds of thousands of dollars 145 10/12/04 - L&I - BILL 040595 into it. I was born and raised in the City of Philadelphia. I now own a shop in Philadelphia. I was in the towing business for years. I have now put a shop together 7 in South Philly, 1021 Snyder Avenue. Again, 8 it's also a franchise location. And I don't 9 have no problem with receiving my tows the way 10 I do. I represent 21 employees that feeds 11 about 50 people, total people. I am in the 12 process of closing down my New Jersey location 13 because I can't make it there. To bring the 14 employees -- I have five employees there. I 15 will have a total of 21 employees in my location in Philadelphia. Where I'm going to manage to put them people, I have no idea. It's not big enough. But I'm looking to provide to try to feed them any way possible. Again, just about 50 my shop alone feeds. I enjoy the fact that I am able to contact my local tower to send him out to retrieve any vehicles that I need to be towed to my location. I pay him whatever the fee is. And that's basically it. 146 10/12/04 - L&I - BILL 040595
If I don't have that opportunity to call my local tower --
We're talking about an issue that we've been describing all day. We're talking about wreck-chasers. You're not talking about wreck-chasers. I'm talking about the radio listeners, if we want to call them that -- and if we wanted to stop you, if we wanted to cut off the radio communications, we could do it just like that. Every police car has a data terminal in it where every job that goes out could be given out where you could never hear it. Same with fire. So if we want to cut you off, we can cut you off by 6 o'clock tonight.
No, it's not. We 147 10/12/04 - L&I - BILL 040595 have them already in the cars. In there. All we have to do is change the way we dispatch the jobs and wreck-chasing is gone. So what you just described a minute ago is not, in my opinion, we're not talking about wreck-chaser.
Well, I'm looking at it as being a small business in the City of Philadelphia. I'm looking at 50 people I'm feeding. Now, use me as an example. If I'm feeding 50 people, how many are they feeding?
We understand, but we have some people over here that feed people too.
Now, once those people who meet that criteria of becoming on that rotation list, now your categorizing all these guys as wreck-chasers.
I'm talking about people that do what we described. And we were 148 10/12/04 - L&I - BILL 040595 told -- when I asked the question "Are you a wreck-chaser," we were told no. I believe that. If somebody wants to start telling us who the wreck-chasers are -- you're going to eventually to address that issue.
We'll police the people that are in the Association. We will make sure that those bad seeds are weeded out. That's guaranteed. UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: I'm a wreck-chaser. I'm an American citizen. I was born and raised in South Philly. I was brought up and raised as a child I was told --
You've got my word you're going to get to speak. It's probably better if we let them finish and then -- UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: He was asking who the wreck-chasers are. I'm proud of who I am.
Please, let me run this. We're going to get to you. I want you to be here. UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: I'm proud of 149 10/12/04 - L&I - BILL 040595 who I am. I'm not earning a dishonest living.
And you know what? We're going to find that out. We're not saying you are. Hold on, we're going to get to you. Hold the enthusiasm and you'll have your time. We're going to get to this. I'm running this meeting. Just so you know -- the same with him, I'm running this and it's going to be fair or I'm not going to be here. Not everybody's going to be happy when they leave today. (Applause.)
That's not what this is for. I appreciate it. But let me tell you something. Not everybody is going to be happy, because I'm not happy all the time. I'm sad every morning when I've got to call my son to get him up for work. That's a whole other story. But what we're going to do here is work this out. It may not happen tonight. He might not be real happy but he'll be happy again because he's got an issue here that has to be addressed. It's a problem. We're going to get to you. 150 10/12/04 - L&I - BILL 040595 So you speak because you didn't say anything yet. Then we'll get to the big guys here because the big guns are next. There's millions of dollars over there in that corner.
Super wreck-chasers. If you put all these people together, there's a million dollars over here too, Councilman Mariano. Thank you. My name is Joseph Ditillo. I own Auto Max Collision. My company employs the same, it feeds about 50 people. These gentlemen here that are behind me that just got up and starting, "who's a wreck-chaser," they refer me work. It's an important part for me to have the work. And I too -- a gentleman back here stated that 10 years ago, calls stopped coming into him. Well, 10 years ago calls stopped coming in to me too. The big insurance companies with their steering and direct repair took that away from me. Now I depend on people that are my friends, my relatives, my companions in this team effort to keep small business in 151 10/12/04 - L&I - BILL 040595 Philadelphia alive and doing well. We got done on body shops with saving deductibles. I'm a body shop owner. Do I save a deductible? Sometimes I do, absolutely. When a women comes in with three children, a single parent, she's paying an extreme amount of insurance money in the City of Philadelphia and tells me, "I don't have $500 to fix my car" --
Do you do the same thing with the good-looking young woman too?
Absolutely. As far as putting bad parts on and after-market parts, well, there's insurance companies that require us to put on these after-market parts. State Farm was sued for their after-market part program. They no 20 longer put after-market parts on, but they can put used parts on vehicles; that's acceptable.
I'm here just to get you guys to help small business people. We 152 10/12/04 - L&I - BILL 040595 don't have college educations.
And we need Council's help. And that's all I want to say. Thank you.
Thank you for your honesty and candor. The next panel, what I refer to as the big guns, truck owners and operators. DiCicco Automotive Group, Guido DiCicco; Morton Towing and Recovery, Joseph F. Parente, owner; Philadelphia Towers and Salvers Association, Ed Alfano; and George Smith Towing.
Members of Council, Chairman Mariano, my name is Ed Alfano. I'm the owner of Century Motors. We've been in business for 30 years. I'm a member and a representative of Philadelphia Authorized Towers and Salvers. That's the association that presently does the contract work towing of abandoned vehicles and recovered stolen vehicles that Sergeant Fran Healy had 153 10/12/04 - L&I - BILL 040595 mentioned earlier. I'd like to clarify a few things about the rotation system. First of all, I'm in full support of Councilman Rizzo's bill, the way it was redesigned and with a couple of changes that were made. I have no problems with all the towers, not only our association. These other towers could be a member of the rotation system and play the same game and I think it's fair for all of us as long as we're based in Philadelphia. I just want to clarify a couple things about the program. Sergeant Healy explained that the program was started in 1999, the recover theft program. I helped co-author it. This program works in a way that in minutes response time there is a 19 tow truck on the scene to bring in a recovered 20 stolen vehicle. Contrary to what you have heard, the Police Department doesn't have an extra job. The police officer comes there, he finds a recovered theft, we take the car within 20 minutes, we bring it to a safe location. 154 10/12/04 - L&I - BILL 040595
What happens when that happens? There's an accident, you get a call?
When you get a call to get this car, where does it originate from?
Police radio calls either one of the vendors. There are 10 vendors that work geographically. Out of the 10 vendors, geographically you can handle the whole City. We handle the whole City with -- 11 vendors, I'm sorry, right now. Geographically, there's not a problem. Policeman manpower there's not a problem. Tow trucks there's not a problem. The first year, 1999 that this program was in its inception, we towed 12,000 cars. There was some talk about revenue to the City. It's a great thing. The first year we made almost a million dollars for the City. 155 10/12/04 - L&I - BILL 040595 We continue to do so. So there is revenue. The fellow that came up here and testified that he was interested in revenue for the City, I understand his point and it's a good idea if you're doing something and you're making money for the City, it makes you a little bit more important. The program works very successfully. Everyone in this room from the insurance companies, everyone in this room from body shops comes to our places and gets their vehicle and they get it at a fair rate. There's no exorbitant charges. There's fair charges. The charges are based from the City of Philadelphia. The Police Department and Licenses and Inspections monitors the program. So if you say that the rotation don't work, it's not true because it does work. We've been doing it for five years.
Can you empathize with these guys like the guy that stood up and said, "I'm a wreck-chaser"? He's out there hustling. That's you 20 years ago.
Absolutely. I 156 10/12/04 - L&I - BILL 040595 empathize with everyone. And I say that these guys shouldn't be excluded. Nobody should be excluded. If the City of Philadelphia wants to put a program together for towers on a rotation system, everybody has to be able to be a player. Nobody should be excluded. Everybody should in some capability, in some facet -- and I know most of these guys.
What's the details on something like that? How does a young guy with his first truck that's hustling to make that nut every month compete with you or him.
If a guy's a tow man and a guy wants to tow in this program, he could tow for anybody. He doesn't have the wherewithal himself --
Let me get a little more specific. This guy is from Juniata Park. He lives across the street from me. He's not, but he could be. Is he going to get to run down to where one of the brothers wanted to go down South Philadelphia or is he just going to get stuff in Northeast? 157 10/12/04 - L&I - BILL 040595 Can he get on line for everyone?
Councilman, the way we work right now, the City of Philadelphia, the Police Department places the tow truck operators geographically. It doesn't mean that the biggest get the most. I may have the biggest place, and I do. I don't get the most. They get an equal amount. That would be the fair way to do it.
That's all run out of the Police Department Special Operations?
The Police Department's very satisfied the way this program works. It works fairly. There's no problems with it. The revenue is there. And there's no reason why everybody can't be a player. You don't 158 10/12/04 - L&I - BILL 040595 have to be the biggest guy, you don't have to have a $500,000 truck. Everybody could be a player. It's got to be fair.
Is there anybody that's involved in this program that you're in that just started out?
My name is Anthony Boyle. I'm represent K&A Auto Salvage in Philadelphia. I recently just became a salver in the past year or two. And everything is run fairly, just like Eddie spoke. He has the biggest yard, 10 times the size of mine, but I get the same amount of cars that he gets every day.