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Hearing video

ZBA Hearing - October 27, 2026

Philadelphia Zoning Board of Adjustment (ZBA)Oct 27, 20262h 51m

We collect existing traffic counts. We collected traffic counts at the intersection of 5th Street and Godfrey Avenue during the weekday morning, weekday evening, and Saturday midday peak hours.

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From there, we project those counts into the future using a growth rate published by PennDOT for use throughout the state, varies by county and road type.

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From there, we determine and generate trips for the proposed use, utilizing Institute of Transportation Engineers data, which, again, is consistent with PennDOT and Streets Department methodologies.

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And we add those trips onto the no-build traffic volumes.

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So that allows us to really compare no build conditions, which are conditions without this project, to future build conditions, which would be the, you know, conditions with this project added on to the existing volumes and background traffic growth.

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Okay, I am showing some of the site plan here that's part of your study, and I'm asking you to describe the proposed development and how vehicles will enter and circulate and leave.

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Sure. So what you're reviewing now is volume figures that are included in the appendix of our study. It's meant to represent the site plan, not be a complete copy of the site plan.

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But in proposed conditions, the site will have one right turn in only driveway along North 5th Street located at the northern portion of the property and then an additional driveway along Godfrey Avenue that'll be right turn in, left turn out, left turn in and right turn out only.

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So the left turn out movement will be restricted on Godfrey Avenue.

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How does the proposed access design improve upon the existing curb cuts and address conflicts near the intersection and the bus stop?

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So right now, in existing conditions, the majority of both frontages are depressed curb.

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I believe there's two really defined driveways along both frontages, but in reality, the majority of both frontages is a depressed curb.

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So a vehicle could enter and leave the site from, you know, a majority of the locations throughout the site.

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With this revised and proposed access design, it really limits the vehicular movements to those two smaller driveway footprints on the northern portion of Fifth Street and the central portion of Godfrey Avenue.

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Really eliminates the potential for, you know, pedestrian conflicts because the driveways are smaller than they are now.

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And it reduces the potential for vehicular conflicts turning into and out of the site because the vehicular movements are really channelized at two specific locations, whereas now it's more of a free-for-all.

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Understood. So would you, in your professional opinion, say that this plan, this proposal, is demonstrably safer than the previous use?

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Yes. As it relates to access to and from the property.

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Yeah. As well as for pedestrians. Is that correct?

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Correct.

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Okay. And you have reviewed the streets department approval. Is that correct?

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Yes, that's correct.

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Explain how the approved access plan relates to that.

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So the approved plan, I believe, is on the screen right now, which is consistent with the plan that we reviewed as part of our transportation impact study.

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Okay. You also did traffic attributable to the fuel usage. Explain the differences.

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traffic attributable to the fuel usage. Explain the differences between the gross

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site trips, the passerby trips, and the trips that are new to the surrounding roadway network.

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Sure. So as I mentioned, we look towards data published by the Institute of Transportation

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Engineers, which is a really national publication that's accepted by PennDOT and the Streets

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department for use in transportation impact studies. For this use specifically, a convenience

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store with gas station, IT identifies that a large portion of traffic is what we call pass-by

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trips. And what that means is it's a vehicle that's already on the roadway network. It's

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already passing the site. Someone decides they need gas or needs to stop at the convenience store.

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they pull into the site, you know, fuel their vehicle, and they get back on the existing

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roadway network. So it's not necessarily someone driving from their house to get to the site. It's

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really an existing vehicle that's already on the roadway network. And contrary to that are primary

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trips, which are the opposite. They are, you know, a vehicle that's specifically traveling to this

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site to get gas or to get something at the convenience store. IT identifies between one

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half and two-thirds of total trips to this use are pass-by trips with the remaining you know

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one half to to one-third being the the primary trips as far as the operation of the complete

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project what does your separate analysis of the full project show about future intersection delay

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and level of service that i believe is on page 47 correct so here table eight compares uh the

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future levels of service um no build conditions again being without the project completely no

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credit was taken for any existing use or permitted use on the property and the build conditions

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refer to um the construction and and um trips associated with a convenience store with gas use

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What we found is there's really minor changes in delay at the adjacent intersection of Godfrey Avenue and North 5th Street, and the site driveway along Godfrey Avenue would operate with good levels of service.

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Okay, and if we go to page 48, we look at queuing and driveway.

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What do the queuing and driveway analysis show about surrounding traffic and emergency access?

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Sure. So the intersection, you know, analysis did show that there are pretty substantial queues in existing condition at that intersection. They extend beyond the site frontage on both 5th Street and Godfrey Avenue.

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um but with the additional trips um associated with with this project there's really minor

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changes in those queues um adding about 10 feet or so so less than a vehicle on average

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um compared to the queues existing today very good i'm going to go over here to page 42

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what did your bus stop you did a bus stop observations as well and what did your bus

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stop observations show, and how did you account for those existing conditions in assessing this

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project? Sure. So we, you know, hearing some of the concerns from the community and knowing there

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is a bus stop located on the 5th Street frontage of the property, we did review really the dwell

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times and any issues associated with the existing bus stop on that portion of the frontage.

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We typically found an average draw time of about 30 seconds for a bus to stop and either load or unload passengers with a maximum, in our observations, of about 60 seconds.

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Again, that's not intended to be a full maximum that the bus will be there, but based on our observations, the longest stop we observed was around 60 seconds.

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All right. What supports your opinion about pedestrian and traffic safety at the proposed driveway?

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And can you please explain the 700-foot site distance and the conservative analysis of 30 to 35 miles an hour?

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Sure. So really supporting our opinion is the reduction in crossing distance for pedestrian at the driveways.

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So as I mentioned right now, the driveways are, you know, essentially the full length of both frontages with minor sections where there's full height curb.

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But with the construction of this project and the reduction in the width of those driveways, the pedestrian crossing distance of each driveway will be smaller.

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You know, 24 feet is the maximum width of the driveways as shown.

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We also reviewed, you know, crash records at the adjacent intersection.

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And then we also reviewed the available site distance from the Godfrey Avenue driveway.

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So we were a little conservative in that assessment as we looked at 35 miles per hour in lieu of the 30 mile per hour posted speed limit, but we found there was sufficient site distance for vehicles exiting the site there to see traffic, bicycles, or pedestrians on the roadway.

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We were a little conservative in that assessment as we looked at 35 miles.

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Okay, I'm going to use page 16 of the binder so we can talk more about.

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And using this particular page, how does the analysis account for existing traffic flow?

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How do you, does this project affect, compare to those ordinarily expected from a convenience store with eight fueling positions?

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So our analysis considered existing traffic again by we obtained existing traffic counts at the intersection. We compared those counts to historical volumes obtained by PennDOT in the area, found they were pretty consistent with those historical volumes.

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And then, you know, we reviewed the project's impact based upon data published by ITE, which is, you know, a standard within Pennsylvania for PennDOT and the streets department.

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And we found it's, you know, pretty consistent with the impacts expected from a convenience store with eight fueling positions.

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Very good. Anything further that you'd like to add, Kevin, about this traffic flow or the study?

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No.

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Okay. Do we have any questions for this witness?

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Why don't we see you're going to have one more witness, right?

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I do. Actually, I'm going to be bringing on my client one more time, but first, I do have a safety witness as well.

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All right. Why don't you bring one? What's the reason to bring your client back on?

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Just to talk about hours of operation and some of the nuts and bolts of this.

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Okay. Why don't we try to move this further?

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Sure. Thank you, Kevin. I want to call Casey Condon.

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Casey?

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There is no one with that name in the virtual audience. Can that person please raise their hand if they're logged in under another device?

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He called in. I think he's doing, I think it's star nine or something.

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all right i see them with their hand raised they're being

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okay i'll allow them to speak sure thank you

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hello hi could you please state your name and spell for the sonographer

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casey condon c-a-s-e-y e-o-n g as in girl d as in dog o n do you swear or affirm to tell the

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truth the whole truth nothing but the truth yes sir could you put your video on please

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uh i only called in okay all right verne please proceed thank you casey thank you for joining us

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You're the owner of Precision Petroleum, is that correct?

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Yes, sir.

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And your work includes the installation, modification, removal, compliance testing of underground storage tank systems.

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Is that correct?

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Yes, sir.

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Okay.

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And what Pennsylvania DEV certifications do you currently hold?

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And what experience do you have with underground fuel systems?

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So I have three DEP certifications. I have my underground install, my underground removal, and my above-ground removal.

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I've been building gas stations for over 10 years, mostly all underground storage tank-related work, everything from truck stops, even some federal Army Depot work with underground storage tanks.

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Okay. And we've asked you to provide technical insight and address some questions from the board today based on your field experience. And you have reviewed the site plan?

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Yes.

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And you've discussed the equipment and proposed, let's propose for this specific location with our ownership. Is that correct?

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Yes.

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Okay. Can you explain briefly the proposed tanks, the piping, the monitoring, and the fueling equipment in plain language?

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the monitoring, and the fueling equipment in plain language?

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So the underground tanks have two layers in them.

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They're double-walled tanks.

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So you have your primary and your interstitial space

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that is monitored continuously multiple ways

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with the tank monitor that would be inside the store.

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it's going to continuously look for leaks inside the fuel system but there will also be a sensor

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in between the two layers of the tank as well um that would let you know if there was an issue

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for the product piping that will be uh double wall piping as well

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uh and i i even referred them to a more durable product piping this the stuff that they intend to

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put in has uh seven layers to it instead of two like the competitor uh pipings so it's a lot more

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durable they will have sensors everywhere that the fuel can leak into and if there is any liquid

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inside that area it will shut down the site so they can no longer sell fuel

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and what a tank does that speak to the uh pump shutdown is that what you

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Yep, that's the pump shutdown.

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So it's all wired in to where if the tank monitor itself sees a leak somewhere,

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it will shut down the motors to the gas station and they cannot pump any further.

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And can you speak to the vapor balance system that's being proposed?

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yeah so it's uh uh gasoline vapors are inside of a tank all the time uh on on top of the vent lines

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they have a pressurized uh vent cap which holds the pressure into the tank to reduce the amount

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of vapors when the truck is going to deliver fuel they hook up a whole nother hose and it will pull

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the vapors into the truck instead of placing it into the atmosphere and uh local area okay and

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the vdeer a root system that's intended to monitor the tank conditions uh is it your testimony that

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It'll stop further petroleum from moving, but also investigate and correct and document the issue?

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It will. Yes, it will. It will.

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It continually monitors how much fuel is in the tank and it will tell you it'll figure out if it is leaking or not leaking.

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um from from there it prints out reports and you know notifies the operator to not use the tank

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anymore and what about during fuel deliveries what measures help prevent or contain spills

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and tank overflows during delivery uh during a delivery there will be inside the tank it's a

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It's called a drop tube shutoff device, which in theory, as the fuel is coming down into the tank, there is a flap in there.

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Usually around 92% of the tank, it will start to restrict the flow.

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And at 95%, when they're dropping fuel, it will completely shut off the flow to the tank from the tanker truck, not allow it to overfill.

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Very good.

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Good. And vapor controls. How will vapor controls work when the fuel is delivered and stored?

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Sorry. That is just about the same thing.

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um so when gas is going into the tanker truck or sorry when gas is going into the tank from

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the tanker truck they have a hose that is hooked up um which sucks the um the vapors back into the

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tanker okay there's a whole separate port on the tank itself for uh just the vapor

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to be pulled back into the trucks.

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How does the proposed system compare with the current industry standards and the recognized best practices?

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How does the proposed system compare with the current industry standards?

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The whole system of what they intend on putting in?

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Yes.

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How does it compare with the current standards?

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Are there older facilities operating with single-wall tanks as opposed to what we're proposing?

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Yeah, absolutely.

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Every, uh, there's still a lot of, a lot of places that have single walled tanks.

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Um, it is, it is now industry standard to put in double walled tanks, but I, I can say

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just this year, um, with tanks that I have removed, um, way, way more single walled

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tanks were removed than double-walled tanks, and I've removed plenty of double-walled tanks as well,

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but their site that they're proposing is definitely above what is required for your bare minimum

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requirements to satisfy DEP, the parts that they intend on putting in are definitely above and

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beyond what they would need to do. So in your professional opinion, what we're proposing

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exceeds current industry standards, is that correct? Yes, absolutely.

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Would any of the proposed equipment, would you state it as state-of-the-art, any of it?

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I would say the VitaRoot system, they're very state-of-the-art.

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they they it's got it's called um continuous statistical leak detection which that is going to

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monitor the fuel in the tank 100 of the time from the time that you first put fuel in there

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it will continually monitor and tell how much fuel is

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understood are you there

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did we lose him i don't know i'm not sure yeah are you still there sir

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well he was driving so i'm not sure yeah you know sounds like he dropped off how about your

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other client your client um yeah uh sukpa sendu if you could just come back on briefly

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So as you can hear the testimony thus far, the traffic study was very deliberate, very thorough, reduced the number of access points, as the safety expert said, state-of-the-art equipment, unlike most industry standards, we are exceeding.

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And, of course, my client has already testified to the lighting and surveillance and the landscaping.

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And I hope he's back on to give us a little bit more.

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I think your client's there.

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Okay.

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Sir?

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Yes.

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Mr. Sandhu, can you speak to hours of operation, number of employees, and general trash maintenance and management?

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I think we're going to do like early morning, like 6 a.m. to probably like early, like late evening, maybe 10 or 11 p.m.

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Trash will every day. We'll have every day. We'll go out there asleep and make sure everything's nice and clean.

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Otherwise, if we're like if our business is dirty and has trash everywhere, who wants to visit your business?

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And if you have any visitors visiting your business, you're going to be out of business real soon.

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Very good. Anything else to add, sir?

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no i think like we have a good track record if anybody had from anybody from the meeting had

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the opportunity to check out our other sites i think they'd be happy um i think we're responsible

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like operators i know i go to gas stations where i don't i feel uneasy but um if you ever visited

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any of ours you'd feel like really comfortable you'd have no issues and um you'd be happy to

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have us uh you know i think we would be a great addition to the neighborhood very good and you

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attended the rco meeting correct the first one yes the second one i had to go to somebody's wedding

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so i was unable to attend it yeah but in attendance was attorney harry cook with you is that correct

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yes okay thank you nothing further for mr sandu i would like to bring on my colleague

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uh mr cook just for a very brief fact witness as to the rco meeting okay but all right and that's

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that's my last one okay yeah are we they're being promoted to panelists here

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They're being promoted to panelists here.

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Mr. Chair, members of the board.

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Hi, could you please state and spell your name for the stenographer?

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Harry Cook, H-A-R-R-Y, C-O-O-K, Anasasio Law.

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Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth, the whole truth, nothing but the truth?

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I do.

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