1008 COUNCIL OF THE CITY OF PHILADELPHIA CAPITAL PROGRAM & BUDGET HEARINGS BEFORE THE COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE - - - Room 400, City Hall Philadelphia, Pennsylvania Monday, February 22, 1999 9:30 a.m. - - - Bill No. 990023 - An ordinance adopting the Operating Budget for the Fiscal Year 2000. PRESENT: COUNCIL PRESIDENT ANNA C. VERNA, Chair COUNCILWOMAN AUGUSTA A. CLARK COUNCILWOMAN JANNIE BLACKWELL COUNCILMAN DAVID COHEN COUNCILWOMAN JOAN L. KRAJEWSKI COUNCILMAN JAMES F. KENNEY COUNCILWOMAN DONNA REED MILLER COUNCILMAN MICHAEL A. NUTTER COUNCILWOMAN MARIAN B. TASCO COUNCILMAN BRIAN O'NEILL COUNCILMAN ANGEL L. ORTIZ COUNCILMAN FRANK DICICCO COUNCILMAN RICHARD T. MARIANO COUNCILMAN W. THACHER LONGSTRETH COUNCILMAN FRANK RIZZO CHARLES MCPHERSON, Chief Financial Officer - - - VINCENT VARALLO ASSOCIATES, INC. Registered Professional Reporters Eleven Penn Center, Suite 600 Philadelphia, PA 19103 (215) 561-2220 1009 2/22/99 - WHOLE COMM. - Bill No. 990023 I N D E X Commissioner Lawrence M. Moy. . . . . . . . . 1011 Streets Department Joseph Doyle, Street Lighting Engineer. . . . 1027 Clarena Tollson . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1029 Deputy Streets Commissioner for Sanitation Kevin Koch, Chief Highway Engineer. . . . . . 1051 Streets Department Charles Trainor, Acting Chief . . . . . . . . 1077 Traffic Engineer, Streets Department Andres Perez, Commissioner. . . . . . . . . . 1094 Department of Public Property Deputy Commissioner Joseph James. . . . . . . 1108 Department of Public Property Joan Schlotterbeck, Building Services . . . . 1202 Director, Public Property Riley P. Harrison, Manager, Fleet Department 1205 Robert Fox, Director. . . . . . . . . . . . . 1213 Administrative Services, Fleet Management Commissioner Kumar Kishinchand. . . . . . . . 1219 Water Department Philadelphia Mike Nadol, Deputy, Water Commissioner. . . . 1225 1010 2/22/99 - WHOLE COMM. - Bill No. 990023 (Index, cont'd.) Denise Garrett, Bureau Chief. . . . . . . . . 1228 Water Revenue Bureau Richard Roy Deputy Commissioner . . . . . . . 1268 Operations, Water Department Commissioner Frances Egan, L&I. . . . . . . . 1287 Bob Solvibile, Deputy Commissioner, L&I . . . 1310 Edward McLaughlin, Deputy Commissioner, L&I 1313 David Perri, Deputy Commissioner, L&I . . . . 1356 Richard Felgus, L&I Review Board. . . . . . . 1359 Barton Kligerman, Chairman. . . . . . . . . . 1361 Board of Building Standards Bob D'Agostino, Appeal Boards Administrator 1363 John Kromer, Director . . . . . . . . . . . . 1368 Office of Housing and Community Development Barbara Kaplan, Executive Director. . . . . . 1378 City Planning Commission 1011 2/22/99 - WHOLE COMM. - Bill No. 990023 P R O C E E D I N G S
Good morning. This is the continued public hearing of the Committee of the Whole regarding Bill No. 990023. The first department to testify this morning will be the Streets Department. (Commissioner Lawrence Moy comes forward.)
Good morning. Please identify yourself for the record and proceed with your testimony. COMMISSIONER MOY: Yes.
We do have copies of your testimony, all the Councilmembers have copies of the testimony. If you will abbreviate your testimony, we will make certain that the stenographer has your entire written testimony for her notes of testimony. COMMISSIONER MOY: Thank you, Madame President.
Thank you. COMMISSIONER MOY: Good morning. My name is Lawrence Moy. I'm the Commissioner of Streets. And I'm pleased to be here this morning 1012 2/22/99 - WHOLE COMM. - Bill No. 990023 to present our abbreviated testimony on behalf of the Department's 1999 proposed Operating Budget. We request a General Fund appropriation of $115,960,124 and an All-Funds Appropriation of $144,771,124. This proposed budget reflects a net General Fund increase of about $1.5 million from Fiscal Year '99's estimated obligations. I would like to briefly highlight some of the goals achieved in areas of refuse collection, recycling, and streets maintenance. Through continuing managerial enhancements started in 1992, we have achieved significant improvements in the Sanitation Division, including increasing on-time collection from 63.7 percent in FY '94 to a projected 95 percent in FY '99 and FY 2000. Recycling expansion. In the area of recycling expansion, we are continuing to expand it in the city. For example, in FY '97, approximately 44,000 tons of household refuse were recycled and diverted from the waste stream, and the current projections for FY '99 and FY 2000 is approximately 48,000. Additionally, recycling's been put in place in many government buildings, 1013 2/22/99 - WHOLE COMM. - Bill No. 990023 including the Municipal Services Building, the Criminal Justice Center, City Hall, branch libraries, and in a number of health centers. In the area of streets maintenance, we are employing innovative technologies such as Hot-In-Place. As a result of this plan, in FY '99, we were able to resurface 157 miles of streets, an increase of 46 percent over FY '97. We have piloted the (HIP) process in FY '99 and are applying our learnings from this effort to plan the FY 2000 program. We have supplied members of Council with a full report addressing key learnings, and we believe that, with Council's support, we can affect a high-quality HIP program in FY 2000 which will continue to yield substantial savings in costs for citizens while maintaining the quality of neighborhood street refacing. Street Lighting. We are in Year 7 of an 11-year program to replace our obsolete street fixtures. The Department has replaced over 53,000 street lights between 1991 and '98, and we expect to replace an additional 10,000 lights by the end of FY '99. We expect to replace all of the city's 1014 2/22/99 - WHOLE COMM. - Bill No. 990023 100,000 street-light system by 2002. This program is enabling us to see reductions in terms of repair and maintenance that you can see reflected in our productivity measures. Approximately 100 lights remain to be installed in our program to modernize an estimated 18,000 alley lights throughout Philadelphia. The final installations are expected to be complete this summer. Traffic engineering. I'm happy to report that our LED traffic light replacement program is on schedule. By the end of FY '99, we project that 28,000 red LEDs will be installed. Combined with the replacement of over 60,000 more efficient yellow and green incandescent lights, we project savings of $670,000 in FY '99 in direct power costs, and $887,000 in FY 2000 and annually year thereafter. These savings have been programmed into our budget request. In closing and in conclusion, the employees of the Department of Streets will continue to work diligently in the delivery of services to our citizens and neighbors and to improve the quality of life in our city and to 1015 2/22/99 - WHOLE COMM. - Bill No. 990023 continue working closely with Council to shape effective programs. Therefore, we request your favorable consideration of this budget request. And I'm available to answer your questions at this time, and I have our staff here from each of our divisions available also.
Thank you, Commissioner. You state in your written testimony that you will be reducing overtime in the Sanitation Division by over $1 million. How do you plan on accomplishing this reduction without impacting services? COMMISSIONER MOY: Actually, this has been an effective savings in the past year, and I guess we've been able, through the waste disposal contracts that we negotiated within city transfer stations -- you may recall that in prior years, we had to go outside the city. Since they are inside the city, we've been able to be more effective in the way we deploy our resources. So we believe we can count on those savings.
On Pages 32 through 86 of your budget detail, it shows a 1016 2/22/99 - WHOLE COMM. - Bill No. 990023 $100,000 program to address workplace violence. How will you be developing this program, and will it be used citywide? I know we had that terrible tragedy, but do you find that there's violence within the workplace. COMMISSIONER MOY: We find that there's considerable stress in the workplace, and this is a difficult area for --
Well, stress is one thing; violence is something totally different. COMMISSIONER MOY: And we have violence also. I think it might not be evident to everyone that there are things in which situations occur on the street, with much of our workforce, where they feel threatened, and they are threatened on a daily basis. There are other things that occur within its workplace itself that we're trying to address. We have -- following the tragedy, we had met with some experts in some of these areas to get a sense of the scale of these problems, and I think that while we intend to address it on 1017 2/22/99 - WHOLE COMM. - Bill No. 990023 behalf of the Department, it's pretty clear to us that this is a problem that exists beyond not just our department. I think it is something --
Well how will you be developing this program? COMMISSIONER MOY: There's probably a series of things that we're going to develop; we're just starting to get involved with the different consultants to address improving our relationships in terms of labor management, in terms of trying to bring, I guess, a softer, gentler work place really. It's something which we want to get into, an awareness of productivity, but at the same time, continuing to bring respect into the workplace. So we will have workshops, we're going to have different that will people come in and work on different groups within the Department.
Thank you. I see Mr. Doyle sitting in the audience there who I think is absolutely excellent, and I know that my office torments him about additional street lighting, and all we ever hear is that there's no money in the budget for additional 1018 2/22/99 - WHOLE COMM. - Bill No. 990023 street lighting. Do we have money in this budget for additional street lighting? COMMISSIONER MOY: No, we do not, Council President Verna.
Why not, may I ask? COMMISSIONER MOY: Well, as part of the five-year plan, we have that kind of that fixed number of -- in terms our inventory of lights that are available. And as you know, we have a problem in terms of not just the Capital Budget, which would been the place to put in additional lighting, but --
I know that. COMMISSIONER MOY: But then we have a problem from the Operating standpoint in terms of a $15 million annual power bill. And so we do not have provision for any substantial additional lighting in either of our budgets, and it's not in the five-year plan. That's not to say that we couldn't talk with you about specific locations and try to work something out. But we have no large-scale 1019 2/22/99 - WHOLE COMM. - Bill No. 990023 supplemental street lighting program.
So are you telling me I shouldn't be fighting for monies for additional street lighting? That I should just simply sit down and talk to you and maybe we could work something out? Because, I will tell you, in some of the directs in my district, street lighting is very, very needed. And you talk about the expense of the electrical bills -- well, if it's not the electrical bills, we're going to be spending that money for additional police to be patrolling certain areas because of the vandalism and robberies that occur because there are not ample street lights. COMMISSIONER MOY: We'd be happy to sit down with you, you know, looking at limited locations --
Well, I just don't want to talk about it; I want something done about it. COMMISSIONER MOY: All right. We'll be glad to sit with you.
Commissioner, 1020 2/22/99 - WHOLE COMM. - Bill No. 990023 what are the improvements to the Hot-In-Place process that you plan to make in FY 2000? COMMISSIONER MOY: Okay, I believe that we had furnished a booklet to the Council there late last week which sort of outlined in detail the program and what our findings were. But for those folks who may not have had the time to look at it, what we did is, we ran a pilot last year for Hot-In-Place recycling in both --
Would you say that pilot was successful? COMMISSIONER MOY: Yes, in our view, it was. What we did was, we tried the Hot-In-Place recycling, which I believe you're generally familiar with, and found that where we could apply this technology, where we shouldn't apply it, we found that -- and we actually pushed the contractor to experiment in some situations that they didn't necessarily recommend, but we wanted to see what the limits were of the equipment. And we found that we are going to -- if 1021 2/22/99 - WHOLE COMM. - Bill No. 990023 we pursue this, we're going to try to do it on straight streets to eliminate the problems of some of those radii where you leave an unfinished wedge. We are going to address the problems of the manholes that -- in some places, there are manholes that are below grade. And we have some places where there was some coarse aggregate, which was actually the rough-looking surface. That was done on cool nights and it was also poor material that they used on the street itself to start with. We would avoid -- by coring, we would avoid using those kinds -- using this process on those kinds of streets. So they are some of the learnings that we got. We believe we can address the major problems that people may have seen. We think the benefits are extraordinary in terms of what the taxpayer gets by this program.
Commissioner, in looking at some of the photographs, it almost looks frightening to me. Did we have the Health Department do an environmental study? 1022 2/22/99 - WHOLE COMM. - Bill No. 990023 COMMISSIONER MOY: Yes, we did, Councilwoman and, as a matter of fact --
Do you have a copy of that report? COMMISSIONER MOY: Yes.
I'd like to see it. COMMISSIONER MOY: Yes. In the back of the -- I'm not sure whether you got this packet, but it was delivered this to your office, I believe, last week. And in the back of the packet, there is a number --
Do you have extra copies of it? COMMISSIONER MOY: If you haven't gotten it, we'll see that get another a copy. But in the back of this, there is a --
Does everybody have a copy of it? Yeah, okay, I don't have it. COMMISSIONER MOY: There is a memorandum from John Domzalski from the Health 1023 2/22/99 - WHOLE COMM. - Bill No. 990023 Department and then an accompanying memorandum from Morris Fine in the Health about the process. We have had contact with the vendor that we had last year, and I believe they are able to address some of the concerns that are raised by the Health Department.
What were the concerns of the Health Department, and how will they be addressed? COMMISSIONER MOY: They were concerned about the emissions that came as a result of this process -- I don't know whether you remember seeing it. There was a great deal of smoke which was steam, but there are -- there still are emissions. They are going to put on some type of scrubber to address the emissions. They are confident they can bring --
We're back to trash-to-steam, huh? We need scrubbers. COMMISSIONER MOY: That's right, that's right. I think it's similar to that process.
Oh, wonderful, that makes me feel even better about it. (Laughter.) 1024 2/22/99 - WHOLE COMM. - Bill No. 990023 COMMISSIONER MOY: In terms of the scrubber technology, I'm sorry. And we're confident that we can address that concern of the Health Department.
Aren't the scrubbers rather expensive? And who would pay for it, the contractor? COMMISSIONER MOY: Yes. The contractor has his own equipment.
Commissioner, how much did you say that the City has saved in last year's pilot program with Hot-In-Place? COMMISSIONER MOY: We saved $829,280. The unit cost savings we project in this coming year is in the ballpark of about percent if you 17 did a unit-cost savings. 18
Now, we lease 19 this equipment, is that how that's done? 20 COMMISSIONER MOY: No. We pay a 21 contractor for a product, which is essentially 22 come into town with their equipment and recycle 23 our streets. 24
Now, do they 25 take in their own employees? Or we also have 1025 2/22/99 - WHOLE COMM. - Bill No. 990023 Street employees that work with them? COMMISSIONER MOY: There's a mix of employees there. There have certain folks that they bring with them -- this is sort of a high-tech -- part of the machine is a high- technology type of machine with computer equipment, and they have their people come in and handle that portion of it. They bring in -- for the conventional paving machine, they use the operators from the local here in town. And for the back of the machine, for the labor component, we have the City forces that handle more or less the conventional paving part of the equipment. So it's a three-part component of labor.
And how many employees do we have that work on this? COMMISSIONER MOY: We have seven City employees working on it.
All right, I don't want to dominate this. We'll have a go-around. The next Councilperson to be recognized 1026 2/22/99 - WHOLE COMM. - Bill No. 990023 is Councilman Kenney.
Thank you, Madame Chair. Good morning, Commissioner. We had a small discussion about this in the Capital Budget round. Are all of the alley lights that were scheduled to be installed -- I guess now we're back six, seven years or so, have they all been installed? Not replacement one-for-one, but in all the streets and driveways where there were old alley lights, have new ones been replaced? And are there any alleys left that need that done? COMMISSIONER MOY: All of our streets have been -- we've had the alley lights in all areas except for Center City. And there are about 100 street lights remaining in Center City. We expect that they'll be done this summer.
And what is the status of the maintenance contract to change the bulbs when they go out? I know there are longer light bulbs. And are we anticipating having the Streets Department, once the contractor's warranty is done -- or maintenance contract is done, 1027 2/22/99 - WHOLE COMM. - Bill No. 990023 continue on? COMMISSIONER MOY: I've got Mr. Doyle here, and he can address your questions, Councilman. (Joseph Doyle comes forward.)
Good morning. Identify yourself for the record, please.
I'm sorry. Joseph Doyle, Street Lighting Engineer. The question related to the alley lighting maintenance is best answered with, for the short term, we have our maintenance contractor doing an individual repair when a complaint comes in. We receive it, we turn it over to him, he responds within hours. 18 If he is not able to make the repair, 19 which is limited in a way similar to the 20 street-lighting type of repairs -- the lamp burned 21 out or something basic -- he can repair that. He 22 will do that immediately. Otherwise it's turned 23 back to City forces and we make the repair if the 24 fixture's been vandalized or something defective like that. 1028 2/22/99 - WHOLE COMM. - Bill No. 990023 In the longer term, when the new contract takes place in about a year, we will have a little bit more direct response from the maintenance contractor where the caller will call they directly and they will go out and make that service. So that in the short time, we have maintenance handled on a one-for-one basis; but in the longer term, they will all handled directed by the maintenance contractor.
All right, thank you. We had a special briefing that was set up by Councilman DiCicco, the Chairman of the Streets and Service Committee, the other day, and there was a question about recycling versus street cleaning and what available resources there were to do both or some in that regard. One of the things that came up, and I'd like an answer for the record now, is that the condition of the streets after trash collection sometimes is not as nice as we'd like it to be. And one of the things that I've recognized and have asked this question in the past is why there 1029 2/22/99 - WHOLE COMM. - Bill No. 990023 are no shovels or brooms on the rear of trash trucks as there were for as long as I can remember growing up my whole life in the city. Even when a trash bag breaks or a box splits, some -- many of our employees conscientiously try to get that stuff up in the truck. They're just --- they are scooping it up with hands. What is the difficulty in requiring brooms and shovels back on the trucks again? COMMISSIONER MOY: We have our Deputy Commissioner Clarena Tollson who can address that. (Clarena Tollson comes forward.)
My name is Clarena Tollson, the Deputy Streets Commissioner for Sanitation. The challenge with maintaining brooms on the truck has been keeping them there, to be quite honest. The trucks are not equipped such that there's a place to hide a broom or to put it out of way, and so they're exposed. The only ones that we've been able to maintain on the trucks are the broken brooms that we get on the route, to be quite honest. Those that we supply just don't last. 1030 2/22/99 - WHOLE COMM. - Bill No. 990023
Okay. Maybe there's someone else there with some institutional memory of how we maintained them on the trucks, I guess, for four of the last ten years. I mean, they were also there. I can't believe that that kind of simple thing cannot be accomplished through management so that a broom and a shovel is available to a conscientious employee who has a spill and wants to pick it up. In the meantime, what we have is the reputation of the Streets Department is besmirched in the minds of neighbors who see a street dirtier sometimes than it was before the trash was picked up, and then complain, and in their own mindset, think that the Streets Department employees are not competent or not caring. And I don't think that's the case; I 1031 2/22/99 - WHOLE COMM. - Bill No. 990023 just don't think they have the tools to work with to keep the street clean as they go through to pick up the trash. And to me, that's a management issue of how we keep them on the truck or how we replace them. I think in the long run, it's better for our city and our streets and the attitude of our citizens if, in fact, they can do that and actually see them do that. So I mean, I would urge you just to -- I mean, the answer that you gave me I don't think is really adequate. You know, we can have trouble keeping them on there while --
You know, we have trouble doing a lot of things, so I mean, we should try to figure out a way to try to get it done.
I don't say it's an impossibility; it's just one of the challenges that we face, one of the challenges that we face, and we will go back and look at ways to maybe work with Fleet to see if we can rig something to the trucks to lock things in.
Okay. I just want 1032 2/22/99 - WHOLE COMM. - Bill No. 990023 to reiterate: it's an attitudinal issue when it comes to citizens. And I think Sanitation people unfairly get a reputation of being, you know, not hard workers or not caring. I don't think that's the case at all, but I do think that -- I get calls from people all the time on trash day that say, you know, These guys threw the bags around, things opened up, they're spilled all over, the street's a mess, we got to go out and clean it up. And I've seen myself Sanitation workers who are trying to, you know, with their hands, scoop up trash and put it in the truck, and I think that for a simple piece of equipment like a broom and a shovel, it doesn't seem to be a very complicated issue.
Okay. COMMISSIONER MOY: We'll try and work on that. Try to work on that, Councilman.
Thank you. The Chair recognizes Councilman Nutter.
Thank you, Madame 1033 2/22/99 - WHOLE COMM. - Bill No. 990023 Chair. Actually, that issue was not on my list but I'm glad the Councilman raised it. Miss Tollson, when you say that you have trouble keeping equipment on the truck, are you talking about a physical location for it because the trucks are not built to have this kind of extra equipment stored on the truck? Or are you talking about sending the trucks out with a shovel and a broom, and somewhere in the course of the day, the shovel and broom don't come back with the truck? Which is the problem?
The location where the broom and shovel would go are in a box underneath the compactor itself.
And it's exposed during the course of a day. We actually tried it for a little while; we issued brooms every day, and we were replacing them quite often.
People take them home? Do they fall off the truck? 1034 2/22/99 - WHOLE COMM. - Bill No. 990023
Yes. There's a lot of theft on the street. There's a lot of theft on the street.
Right. And so at the end of the day, they come back and what do they say, "I lost my broom"?
We tried to monitor it to see if the same people were losing the brooms all the time. There were certain routes where it was somewhat prevalent, that we just couldn't keep brooms on the trucks. And the only ones we were able to keep was when we issued a broken broom or a broom that was found on the route. That was never taken; people wouldn't take those.
It's like people don't steal the beat-up trash cans; they just take 1035 2/22/99 - WHOLE COMM. - Bill No. 990023 the new ones.
Actually, I wasn't talking about your folks; I'm talking about when citizens leave them out on the streets.
Oh, okay, all right. The old beat-up trash cans always seem to stay in front of your house; it's just the new ones that get lost. All right, you said you're going to check into that.
All right. I would like to return, though, to an issue that was raised by Councilwoman Verna, which is the street lighting budget -- or lack thereof. Commissioner, was your testimony that when a request is made, the Councilmember or the citizen calls, they have a street-lighting request, they need more light on X-Y-Z Street, your testimony is that you really don't have any 1036 2/22/99 - WHOLE COMM. - Bill No. 990023 dollars specifically set aside to increase street lighting. You may have some dollars, I guess, to deal with replacement or maintenance of ongoing sites, but you really don't have any extra money to deal with -- let's say there are six poles on a block, three of them have lights on them, but citizens have complained that there's kind of a dead spot or a very dark spot. And the solution would be putting a light on one of those three empty poles. You're saying you don't have money for that? COMMISSIONER MOY: In our program, we have essentially addressed -- that's essentially correct. We have addressed in the group replacement program, as you know, trying to get better lighting on those other three poles, which gives you better distribution, but we don't have specific funding to fill the three gaps that you've described.
Well, oftentimes, people are not even looking to fill the three. I mean, they might be looking for one, you know, maybe two. 1037 2/22/99 - WHOLE COMM. - Bill No. 990023 I mean, is it the history of the Department that you just never had money set aside to try to deal with kind of, quote/unquote, extra lighting requests?
That's not the history. COMMISSIONER MOY: Yeah, that's pretty much my impression. I don't think we've ever had any real --
No, it's not, Commissioner. I remember us having street lighting appropriations in the budget.
Good morning, Councilman. Joe Doyle, City Street Lighting engineer. Correct. In of the past, historically, there were line items in the Capital Budget for additional street lighting. In the early '90s and particularly in '90, '91, because of the financial crisis, that money was dropped out.
And shortly thereafter, we instituted a replacement program where we did bring capital funds back into our budget. They 1038 2/22/99 - WHOLE COMM. - Bill No. 990023 were focused directly on the replacement program taking the obsolete lighting that we had in service out.
Well, let's talk about pre-'90s. I mean, was the Department in a particular -- for lack of better terms -- were you in, you know, a light-up mode or project? Was there an additional lighting project going on citywide where you were actively out trying to put more lights in different places? Or was it just a response to complains?
Well, I wasn't here in the early '80s as a street lighting engineer, but my knowledge of it is that it was basically a complaint-oriented system, that there was money put into the budget that those locations were requested, either through private individuals or through Council, were investigated, and that they were installed based on a complaint-only basis. There was not comprehensive plan, but that's how it was handled.
I understand. Last question while the beeper is beeping. What is your recollection of what the 1039 2/22/99 - WHOLE COMM. - Bill No. 990023 size of that line item was? I mean, was it small, was it medium, was it massive? I mean, do you have any numbers or recollection off the top of your head?
Councilwoman, it depends on the street light itself. If you're installing a new street light on an existing PECO utility pole, the cost is in the range of about $250 installation cost. Maintenance has to be added to that. The cost of a street light that requires its own pole and a new utility services is in the range of at least 1,000 to $2,000, depending on the location and some of the. 1040 2/22/99 - WHOLE COMM. - Bill No. 990023 Construction details. So there's a wide disparity of the cost, depending on the cost of exactly what it's mounted on and where the utility service is coming from.
All right. It's interesting that you mentioned PECO. You know, this PECO Energy calculator really comes in hand from time to time. So if it's $100,000, at 250 a light, that gets you 400 lights a year. That's just on a pole that --
Right. Well, pretty much all the poles out there are pretty much PECO poles, aren't they? Or does Bell Atlantic have poles out there?
Of the wood utility poles, the vast majority of them are PECO, yes. 1041 2/22/99 - WHOLE COMM. - Bill No. 990023
But there's many of areas of the city that do not have aerial services in terms of PECO's definition of where existing poles exist. There are many neighborhoods that -- for example, Eastwick -- that have underground services that were built in the last or 10 years, and a new standard was applied where all of 11 the utilities are underground. And so, for 12 example, if a resident in Eastwick requests an 13 additional light, it's a different situation than 14 one where there's a utility pole in, say, South 15 Philadelphia. 16
Hmm, okay. I mean, 17 would you at least explore -- I mean, you're going 18 to continue, I guess, to get hit with this. Would 19 you continue to explore the prospect of the return 20 of that kind of line item? Especially, if you're talking about like $100,000? Those were capital dollars?
I'd have to check on that to verify that over the years. I'm --
I don't want to promise that was the number and then be incorrect.
And if the cost is what you say it is, I mean, how much more could we be paying for the power?
Well, over a five-year period, each new street light would cost about $1,000, even if it's mounted on a utility pole. The average maintenance and energy cost is about $150 per light per year. And so working the numbers out for a $250 installation and 150 for 1043 2/22/99 - WHOLE COMM. - Bill No. 990023 the five years, it's about $1,000 per light over the five-year period.
Thank you. The Chair recognizes Councilman O'Neill.
Thank you, Madame Chair. Commissioner, I want to try to stick to addressing resurfacing. The list for the different highway districts that we have, I have most of my district in the 6th and a little bit in the 5th. Is there a breakdown on how much of that resurfacing is City crews only and how much is private crews only and how much is the mixture of crews with the hybrid with the HIP resurfacing? Do we have that breakdown? COMMISSIONER MOY: Yes. I believe we gave you a general idea of the listing in response to a question on the capital. We can identify from within that -- the districts, and we can also identify I think for you further the breakdowns 1044 2/22/99 - WHOLE COMM. - Bill No. 990023 that we had expected for HIP and contract.
The reason I mention it is there's maybe six or seven cul-de-sacs that are mentioned on the 6th Highway District. And a few years ago, I was out with some people from your department, looking at a fairly bad City job, but it was done right before the 4th of July and it was on a pretty tough cul-de-sac with an island in the middle. And I thought we had agreement that that stuff should go out private, that streets that aren't straight shots that have very difficult manual work to get done should be done privately. So I just want to check on that. I don't have to go through that today, but that was my understanding. Secondly, with the HIP, you've shown some Xeroxed color photos that are a little on the dark side, but I'll agree they don't look bad in your I'm sure best-case scenario. I don't know if you're familiar with what I'd have to kindly call "the worse-case scenario," but I have a competing set of photos -- and you have it with you -- that are pretty ugly and scary and border on just unbelievable. I won't even go through each one -- 1045 2/22/99 - WHOLE COMM. - Bill No. 990023 just one gets worse than the other, as far as I'm concerned. So I just have a few questions about HIP, maybe to follow up on what the Council President was asking. In your costs -- and I can see why this would be cheaper. If this costs as much as what we get done normally, I'd be really upset. But in terms of putting your costs together, I'm told that there are -- these are, I'm sure, Center City locations where there's traffic problems, as opposed to some areas where there might not be serious traffic problems. But I'm told that HIP was working 7 to 7, whereas private contractors get told they can't start till about 9:30 and they've got to be off by 3. Secondly, I've been told that there are seven City inspectors added to the crews directing traffic, and that there are seven police officers also. Do we have the cost differentials factored in for 7 to 7 versus 9: 30 to 3 for seven City inspectors added to a job just to direct traffic, where the private concerns have to hire 1046 2/22/99 - WHOLE COMM. - Bill No. 990023 people to do that? And are we charging ourselves for the police time the way we charge the private contractors? COMMISSIONER MOY: We actually work, I believe, to 9 in terms of the downtown. And we 7 have -- the unit costs are folded into the 8 contractor's bid. I don't think the police -- the 9 inspector costs are added in, but I don't think the police costs are generally added in to that.
Okay. I think the police costs are fairly substantial. But it's also a substantial cost differential if I got to get the street at 3:30 and you're comparing your costs to mine and you can go till 9. COMMISSIONER MOY: Yeah. Just a piece on the HIP. If we were to do that again in Center City, our preference and the contractor's preference would be to do it in the evening, as we do conventional resurfacing. We would do that again in the evenings in the summer. This particular summer, it was late in the fall in this case, and we did not want to do it because it was cool weather at night.
Streets that are 1047 2/22/99 - WHOLE COMM. - Bill No. 990023 up in the worse-case scenario book that you have in front of you, with pretty good photographs and some measurements and things that are fairly telling, there's a lot of maintenance follow-up that's going to have to be done on these streets. I mean, we can't overlook the future costs of what you're going to have do to these streets that you wouldn't have to do if they were done in a normal fashion and done very well in a normal fashion. Has that been factored into your costs? Because, clearly, that's not acceptable, and somebody's going to have to go back from the Department or from outside and do it over, and that's not acceptable. I can go through each one. Has that been factored in to the cost? COMMISSIONER MOY: Yes. I think what you have to do is put this in context as far as we're concerned.
I'm trying to. COMMISSIONER MOY: No, no. What we're saying is --
I say your best-case streets. COMMISSIONER MOY: Well, what we're 1048 2/22/99 - WHOLE COMM. - Bill No. 990023 saying is that there are basically ten locations in here that are problem locations. The contractor's required to repair those at his costs, quite number of these bad situations that you'll see in this book. So the City is not paying for them. And in the certain case of coarse aggregate, he's going to do that over, and I think he understands that. So that should not be additional maintenance costs to the City. So we have addressed the ten what is -- the locations, as a matter of fact, are a very small percentage of the number of streets that we did throughout the city and is probably less than 1 percent or something like that of the work. I think the manholes is less than 5 percent.
Isn't there a problem with this machinery and equipment doing intersections? COMMISSIONER MOY: The problem -- if you're referring to the radii and what we would call the "pies" that are at the intersections, it occurs when we have HIP done on both streets. And because it's such a large train, it proceeds down and doesn't make the turn at the intersections 1049 2/22/99 - WHOLE COMM. - Bill No. 990023 very well. A couple things on that. One, in terms of our subsequent work, we are trying to reduce that -- the number of those situations where we have intersecting. We're trying to use the HIP on the one long street, we're kind of focussing on that in terms of future program. And if -- however, if we had to do the radii, we do have a method to do it, and I think there's a photograph of some that we've done in retrofitting, so to speak. And it does come out reasonably attractive and comes out at about 11 cents a square yard additional cost. So it's not a significant cost.
Not at the present time, but they've come in to look at the process, and they are quite interested, as is the federal government. The federal government has used it out in the West, some of their people have been very sympathetic to introducing it in the area.
Now, the Hot-In-Place, how do you capture all of the 1050 2/22/99 - WHOLE COMM. - Bill No. 990023 particles, or whatever you call the environmental pollution that comes out of this process? I mean, I've seen some photos where we can't even see the trucks or the equipment because there's so much smoke and whatever coming off the street. It seems to me you could put equipment on a truck, put scrubbers on but I don't know how you capture all of that? Is there some way of getting all that in where people won't see it until it's way up in the air somewhere? COMMISSIONER MOY: I'm not sure that people won't see it. As I understand it, and we probably need a Health Department --
I mean see it off the ground-level, meaning it won't be in the scrubber. COMMISSIONER MOY: Right, right.
They'll be seeing it because it missed the scrubber; that's what I meant by that. COMMISSIONER MOY: But I think we need a Health Department expert probably to have this conversation with you, but what we hear is that a good deal of what you see is steam, which is a 1051 2/22/99 - WHOLE COMM. - Bill No. 990023 function of the amount of moisture in the asphalt itself. And we've had rainy days or rain preceding our process, and you will develop more, quote, smoke, which is actually more steam, and it is not, as we understand it, a deleterious effect. So we're able to address that with the new machinery that they're coming in with.
How did the windows get blown out of the store on 18th, 19th, 20th Street, somewhere? It's one of the stores around Chestnut or Walnut.
Good morning, Councilman. My name's Kevin Koch. I'm the Chief Highway Engineer. My understanding is that with all the safety features that are built into their equipment, a pressure-release valve on a propane feed from the system actually froze, pressure built up, and it released -- as it's designed to release. It happened in front of a deli window, and the window had to be replaced. That's my understanding.
It blew out a window is what I heard. 1052 2/22/99 - WHOLE COMM. - Bill No. 990023
No, that was the first time it's ever happened to them in the history of this equipment.
But I mean it's a normal part -- if it's a pressure-relief valve and it released, that's part of the -- of.
Yes, yes. The safety devices are designed to release that pressure.
This is off of Hot-In-Place, this is milling. Milling contracts go out to the private sector. Oftentimes the private sector is not the paving party; it's us or Hot-In-Place. I've had up to ten weeks' wait for that. It used two weeks at the most. You'd be able to tell people, Don't worry, it's a good sign of getting your street repaved. Ten weeks is just cruel to people, and it's been happening more and more. And I understand that the -- that the private sector 1053 2/22/99 - WHOLE COMM. - Bill No. 990023 isn't doing the streets faster than we ask them to. We're paving them slower than we planned to, and that's a management problem. And could you address it? 'Cause it's totally unsatisfactory. COMMISSIONER MOY: Councilman, we agree with you that ten weeks is far too long in terms of the interval between milling and resurfacing. As an aside, first of all, HIP does not have milling, and that's -- one of the features of HIP is that you have no delay, you have no period for risk in terms of manhole covers or other things between milling and resurfacing. But coming back to the control and the management piece of City forces following milling, we had two years ago or a year and a half ago, I know we had experienced some problems -- particularly over the winter, where some streets had been milled and they were left too long in a milled condition as we got into cold weather. I believe we have addressed that. We included in -- our goal is a three- to five-week window, which, we believe, is a more optimal period to get in there to make the 1054 2/22/99 - WHOLE COMM. - Bill No. 990023 adjustments to the boxes, cut the adjustments on intersecting streets, and get in to resurface. So, yeah, we're going to continue to address that and pull down the time down as much as we can to --
Well, I would hope you could shoot for two weeks rather than three to five weeks. I think with three to five, you're giving yourself too much room there. COMMISSIONER MOY: Well, we will continually try to pull it down. And if we can get it in two weeks, we will.
And, finally, I'm so unimpressed with HIP and I may -- you know, I have an open mind and I've seen the good jobs, although the pictures aren't quite as clear. I'm going to ask you, and in fact I'm going to insist on it. I'd rather not see paving in my district until I see that this kind of stuff isn't just not percent or percent or whatever, but that it's nonexistent. I can't afford one job like this -- to see it afterwards and have to face citizens who expect so much more than this. And we have private contractors that 1055 2/22/99 - WHOLE COMM. - Bill No. 990023 compete with our crews. These are not stupid people. There's a company that has to come down from Canada with all of this equipment. Our people know about the equipment, the people that we normally contract with. And they like making money. And if you can make money bringing the equipment down from Canada, putting people on that aren't you're own employees that you don't supervise every day, I believe that if it were a long-term solution, our people would already be in there because there's a profit motive, and there's nothing like that to drive 'em. And so I would ask that until I see something that resembles more this and what I normally see as a street resurfacing, I don't want HIP in my district. And if that means not having streets resurfaced that would ordinarily resurfaced, I'll take that responsibility with the people on that block, and I'll go door to door and explain to every one of them why. Because I don't think you experiment and say this is a terrific program when this is the result of it. And I don't care how you try to move the numbers around or move they're coming 1056 2/22/99 - WHOLE COMM. - Bill No. 990023 back into repair. I see it so far substandard to what I think an average person expects let alone somebody who's in the business, that it's not acceptable. COMMISSIONER MOY: Just let me respond this way. When you said "long-term," that's exactly what we think we're trying to do here. Bringing new technology in, we believe that we've got a couple things driving us. The asphalt costs have been going up in an uncontrolled manner, as far as we're concerned, which is making it harder for us to continue our level of commitment of resurfacing. So we took and we looked at the technology. This happens to be one of them. There are other techniques that use less asphalt, go into life-extenders, which allows us to do more. We can address the backlog, and this has helped us address the backlog. I understand your concerns, and I really would like to meet with you a little bit more to talk about some of the concerns that you have.
But I just want 1057 2/22/99 - WHOLE COMM. - Bill No. 990023 you to know that I'm unequivocal at this point. I mean, I may equivocate, actually support the program later, but right now, I don't want this in my district. What I'd be doing is saying, We're going to spend another certain amount of money, and we're just going to call it "pilot money," "Pilot II," whatever you want, but we're going to have to go back and do these streets over again, and let's see what these streets look like a second time. Because to me, I'd want these streets redone if they were in my district. I wouldn't just want somebody out there patching them up if this was a resurfacing job -- particularly where there's still holes where there's 1-1/4 inches of material. And I don't want to get into -- as long as we have an understanding, and I understand what you're trying to accomplish; I just disagree with some of the things that happened.
And I just don't 1058 2/22/99 - WHOLE COMM. - Bill No. 990023 want to be paying for it knowing what I know now.
Commissioner, would you say that the majority of the streets that were done under this year's pilot program were in Center City? COMMISSIONER MOY: Madame Chairman, no. I think the bulk of the work was done in the lower Northeast and in the Oak Lane area. I think there was about five-sevenths of the program was done up there. It was about 180,000 square yards done in Center City.
Thank you, Madame Chair. Good morning, Commissioner. COMMISSIONER MOY: Good morning.
I just want to follow up on the issue that was raised by Councilman Kenney as it relates to follow-up cleaning when the -- on trash collection day. How does the process work? Crews are sent out to pick up trash in a particular area of a highway district or whatever. What happens? Is 1059 2/22/99 - WHOLE COMM. - Bill No. 990023 there anyone who follows up after the trash is picked up to see if the route, the area had been completed, the trash has been picked up properly, and if there's any debris left behind? COMMISSIONER MOY: Yes, Councilman, we do have supervisory staff that follows through, but let me ask Deputy Commissioner Tollson to address it.
There are labor crew chiefs who presently follow the trash routes to determine whether or not the trash has been collected. Unfortunately, as we progress, we've gotten into vehicles now. They used to walk the routes. Before where they walked, they covered a much smaller area, but they could see the street as they were walking through to determine the trash collections. Now they drive their entire area. The downside of that, obviously, is that they do not see individual sidewalks as clearly as when they were walking.
Is there a way that the brooms, the shovels that we were speaking 1060 2/22/99 - WHOLE COMM. - Bill No. 990023 about earlier could be left to the responsibility of the supervisor in his or her performing the inspection of the area to find out those areas where trash may have fallen off the truck or the bag broke, to do some follow-up? Maybe not for the supervisor to do the actual picking up but to get someone from the other crew or one of the crews that are going to be in the general vicinity where the trash was left on the street to pick up, and let it be their responsible as opposed to the crew members on the individual trash trucks.
Actually, we did just that when we were challenged with maintaining the brooms on the trucks. We then got brooms and shovels for all the supervisors so that they could carry them in their vehicles. Some cleaned the material up themselves when they noticed it, of if they get a complaint when they're out there. And some will also call the crew back to have the crews clean to try to encourage them as to be as clean as possible the first time through. Through both of those methods, I think there still is a challenge with regard to 1061 2/22/99 - WHOLE COMM. - Bill No. 990023 identifying the exact locations. Because as I said, the supervisors are driving through versus walking a block. And if there's parked cars, they don't see around that. In all cases, citizens can call into our department, and when we get those calls, the supervisor will go out, identify the material, the debris that's left on the street, and then have it cleaned, or clean it themselves.
An experience I had a month or two ago in my neighborhood where we had some bulk trash, there was some refrigerators and hot-water heaters that were out. And we called from my office 'cause I actually called it into my office one day, the day before the regular trash pickup, to notify Sanitation that we had bulk trash out. Well, it wasn't picked up that week, and actually, I don't think it was even picked up the following week. And questioned why, and I was told that the supervisor from that area was either out on vacation or out sick. Would that necessitate a problem like that? Isn't there someone, an assistant 1062 2/22/99 - WHOLE COMM. - Bill No. 990023 supervisor or someone who would do a follow-up to the bulk trash in the event that the supervisor is not in?
Right. The person there had difficulty answering your question because the supervisor wasn't there; however, that has nothing to do with the service. The challenge with regard to bulk collection and service that we've had for the last three to four months is that the metals market has declined greatly. Previously, the City had the luxury of scavengers who would pick up probably half, if not more, of the bulk material in the street -- the heaters, the refrigerators, and the stoves. Since probably November or October, that has all been dried up. So now those materials are left to the City to collect with limited additional -- with no additional resources to service that, which has caused extreme delays on our bulk collections; where before, I think we had improved our services to the point where we were getting our bulk materials within the week, within the five business days. 1063 2/22/99 - WHOLE COMM. - Bill No. 990023 We're now experiencing much longer delays in picking up those same materials.
And my other question concerning bulk trash is: Wouldn't it be more efficient if we picked up bulk trash on the same day that regular track was picked up? And one of the reasons is that people still don't understand that if you have a refrigerator and you want it to get picked up by the Sanitation Department, you need to call a day prior to the regular pickup day. Again, I think it kind of becomes very unuser-friendly. It's kind of like the recycling -- what day do I put it out? Has there been any thought or discussion given to the possibility of picking up bulk trash on the same day?
We've looked at the issues of scheduling our bulk collections. Quite frankly, the challenge here is that in a district, there may only be one bulk truck to service an area that has 30 trash trucks. And as you can see, trying to cover that entire area, both driving it and servicing it with the pickups, it's not possible, which is the reason why it has been 1064 2/22/99 - WHOLE COMM. - Bill No. 990023 taken us up to five business days to service our calls or requests for bulk collection. Now, with the onslaught of bulk, it is much worse. But we had even entertained the notion of maybe scheduling bulk collection days such that people knew in advance that these were the days that we collect bulk in your area, and they didn't put it out any other day other than that. However, as we kind of tossed that idea to various people, the notion of citizens having a choice about when to put it out seems to be the preferred angle to take it on-demand versus on schedule.
It doesn't make it right, but people, for some reason, over the last decade or so have had this problem of keeping trash in their yard up until trash day, no less keeping some bulk trash around for an extra week.
So, you know, unfortunately, we're left with the burden -- we, the City, are left with the burden of removing this stuff, so I'm trying to figure out ways that might make it a little bit more user-friend. 1065 2/22/99 - WHOLE COMM. - Bill No. 990023
And, again, I just thought if we could do everything on the same day, people don't have to remember what day it is, other than, It's trash day, put everything out.
Right. In times past, and not so long ago, it used to be that refrigerators and tires and water heaters went in the trash truck.
No, I understand the separation issue, I understand that.
But since that separation, though, we've not had additional vehicles to put out additional bulk trucks. There's more materials, and that's a problem.
I just want to jump back to the lighting issue. I may have missed some of this. There was some discussion, I think, last year that citywide, we were looking to replace many of the light fixtures, if not all of the light fixtures. And I think Councilman Nutter may have raised a question -- or Council President Verna raised a question about getting new lights 1066 2/22/99 - WHOLE COMM. - Bill No. 990023 -- additional lighting in. And you talked about the cost involved. The new light fixtures and/or the new luminaries that we're talking about replacing are more energy-efficient. That to me says that it would bring the cost of electrification down. Could not that savings on the cost of the electric bill compensate for additional lighting where needed?
Joseph Doyle, Street Lighting Engineer. Councilman, while there are energy savings in the kilowatt-hour range, there are not big energy savings in the dollar range. The reason is that our structure -- our rate structure with PECO is highly skewed toward a service point location and not an energy usage. For example, your home energy bill has a relatively low monthly flat service charge, plus your energy. Ours -- to use that comparison -- is a very high monthly charge and a relatively low energy charge and has become even lower with some deregulation and competition in that area. So that, honestly, the energy savings 1067 2/22/99 - WHOLE COMM. - Bill No. 990023 are not a significant portion that we could then roll into another program and make use of.
And the first part of my question, where are we with the replacement of existing fixtures with the newer fixtures? And was I correct that it was a suicide project?
Yes. Citywide, it's on the order of about 60 to 70 percent completed. And geographically, we were proceeding from basically Southwest to Northeast, Northwest. So the remaining areas of the city are the far Northeast and a portion of the Northwest. The rest of the city is in the neighborhoods has been completed.
You're welcome. The Chair recognizes Councilman Rizzo.
Thank you, Madame Chair. My question is to Mr. Doyle, the Street Lighting Engineer. I just want to follow up on something he just said before I get to my questions. 1068 2/22/99 - WHOLE COMM. - Bill No. 990023 If we're not recognizing any savings as a result of this project to install energy- efficient luminaries, what motivated you to do this?
Councilman, the equipment is -- some of it is 30 years and has old long past reached its useful life. If we did not replace it in a group, we'd have to be doing it on a one-for-one, and individual repair constituents would have lights out maybe for weeks at a time. And we actually experienced that in the early '90s when I first came to street lighting, and I felt that that was not a program that was at all customer-friendly or residentially appreciated.
Maybe I didn't make my question clear. You transitioned from a particular light to an energy-more-efficient light. Why wouldn't we go to PECO Energy and try to renegotiate that deal down, based on the fact that we're consuming less energy? I don't understand why we would move in a direction of being energy-efficient when we're not receiving any benefits from going that direction. 1069 2/22/99 - WHOLE COMM. - Bill No. 990023
Well, Councilman, I can't address the issue about our rate structure with PECO; that's been controlled by the PUC. And, frankly, the City's been through that route before. But the fact that we're using more energy-efficient, I think, is not the goal of the program per se; it's one of the benefits of it. The goal of the program was to replace obsolete fixtures before they failed so that we would not have large outages for --
But that part of that process, if we're using a significant -- if we're using less energy, why should we be paying for energy that we're not using? I can't imagine in this process that we didn't go to PECO or ask the PUC to adjust the rate. If we're using X-number of kilowatt hours prior to this change, and we're still paying the same amount, something's wrong there if you have a more energy-efficient fixture.
I'm sorry, Councilman, maybe I wasn't clear on that. When I was saying the rate, the cents per kilowatt hour is 1070 2/22/99 - WHOLE COMM. - Bill No. 990023 relatively low. Our kilowatt usage has dropped and our bill has dropped. But because we pay a relatively low kilowatt hour rate, even though we've dropped significantly in our number of kill-watt hours, the net savings are not as dramatic as what they would be.
I got the impression that you went to an energy-efficient product and didn't realize any savings by doing that.
The City's street-lighting electric bill is less today than it was at some other time because of the program to go to energy-efficient fixtures.
Thank you. Commissioner Moy, going back to the schedule of time that it takes to get a street milled and paved, you indicated that this new process would make that interval less time. COMMISSIONER MOY: Within hours. Actually, there's no interval. The process, 1071 2/22/99 - WHOLE COMM. - Bill No. 990023 Councilman, is Hot-In-Place so that you really have no milling that precedes it.
Okay. Now, I can't understand why a well-managed program can't schedule milling using the old process and schedule repaving, why it takes ten weeks, why we can't do a better job. And I think we had this conversation last year, after numerous calls from people not being able to park their cars because they're not sure when the repaving crews are going to show up week after week after week. That can't be managed better, to make that happen one week and start to pave the street the following week? What is the scheduling or management problem that you have doing this more efficiently? COMMISSIONER MOY: Well, as I said to Councilman O'Neill, first of all, ten weeks is not acceptable, and I don't think we had many ten-week intervals last year; we've been working on that process. The question of whether you bring it down from three to five or whether you bring it down to one is a function of cost. And it's 1072 2/22/99 - WHOLE COMM. - Bill No. 990023 clustering and what the economics are of trying to address your resurfacing immediately following your milling. There's a -- on the milling and on box setting and on street adjustments, the contractor has to get in and do this in an efficient way. And in the same way, the resurfacing is done with crews that are focused in areas in clusters. We are going to try to do what Councilman O'Neill suggested and bring it down to less than the three weeks. I agree that it's a goal that we want to meet.
My last question is: What is the problem when we put a curb cut in to make an intersection handicapped-accessible? That after it rains, there's standing water at the bottom of that cut for days and days and days, where people having a conversation walk down the curb and they walk into two inches of water that's been standing there for sometimes a week. Why can't our engineers and the people installing these wheelchair ramps, these curb cuts do a better job of grading them so that we eliminate -- I mean, when you walk through Center 1073 2/22/99 - WHOLE COMM. - Bill No. 990023 City, it's just incredible the number of puddles that are there, and you don't expect a puddle 'cause it hadn't rained in three days for people just to have to walk through these conditions. What's the problem with putting one of these wheelchair curb cuts in and eliminate that problem? COMMISSIONER MOY: I think it's a question of having some fine grading that you've got to be very careful with when you get into flat locations, particularly around the radius of your streets. If we've got specific locations, we should be trying to trying to eliminate those puddles, though.
Well, I've reported areas around the Convention Center that were brought to my attention by some visitors, and nothing was ever done about those locations 'cause I -- I'll give you them again. COMMISSIONER MOY: Be glad to look at them.
But it's a shame to have to go back -- COMMISSIONER MOY: I agree. 1074 2/22/99 - WHOLE COMM. - Bill No. 990023
-- and spend money and fix them. Why can't they be installed properly the first time? COMMISSIONER MOY: I agree that we need to look at that process.
That is a major complaint that I also receive, and I know Mr. McPherson was saying that even in his area, it's a real problem. The Chair recognizes Councilman Kenney. Oh, I'm sorry. Councilwoman Miller.
Thank you, Madame Chair. I just want to follow up on the curb-cut issue. I've seen some curb cuts where there's a sewage, whatever, underneath it, and I know the contractor knows it -- you can just look at it and see they closed the whole thing up. So the water won't go down into the sewage system; it just stays there, it just stays there. And I guess I agree with Councilman 1075 2/22/99 - WHOLE COMM. - Bill No. 990023 Rizzo that to me, that's the type of problem that could be eliminated. I don't know who the contractors are that's doing it, but they just don't care, they just close the things up in my district. And one happens to be on my block. We've been calling on that one for quite some time too. Ever since it happened, we call. COMMISSIONER MOY: If you'll let me have that again, I'll --
Okay, I'll give it to you later. I was wondering if the sweep officers are enforcing the piece of legislation that Councilman DiCicco introduced requiring businesses to have trash cans out in front of their stores, particularly in the commercial corridors.
We're reviewing our regulations right now so that we can make solid locations where the baskets have to go outside of the restaurants and establishments.
Okay. Because, you know, it gets real messy, and I'll give you an example? At Broad and Erie, with all those 1076 2/22/99 - WHOLE COMM. - Bill No. 990023 various bus stops and all those places, Dunkin' Donuts, this restaurant, that restaurant. And as a result, one of the sidewalks in particular is a real problem. And I know I've been working with you on that, but we also need to probably put more trash cans out there 'cause someone took the trash can, and I know that's not your problem. But the other thing they said is that one of the trash cans was placed on a pole that when a bus turned the corner, it was knocking it down. So SEPTA or a business person removed that. But I just wanted to know if that's something that you continuously look at rather than wait for a complaint. Is there a backlog on pole and street-sign replacement or placement? You know, the pole that holds the stop sign, the pole that holds the actual street sign? And the reason I ask is 'cause it seems like it takes a long time to get a actual street sign replaced. COMMISSIONER MOY: Let me have Charles Trainor, who's our Acting Chief Traffic Engineer address our sign program for you. (Charles Trainor comes forward.) 1077 2/22/99 - WHOLE COMM. - Bill No. 990023
Councilwoman, yes, there is a backlog of street-name signs. We are placing them where we can on existing poles. They do go faster than a new-pole installation. We're placing approximately 100 intersections a week now.
Okay. So we need to call you with intersections and just give you a total list. 'Cause I notice when I'm traveling the city and traveling my district to go to certain events and meetings, if the street sign's not there, really, you just don't know where you are. I mean, you know, it's in my own neighborhood or a neighborhood that I'm very familiar with. So it is rather important, I believe, that people need to have adequate street signage.
Either way, Councilwoman, if you want to call our office or send us a list, we'll address 'em.
Okay. And I just wanted to talk a little bit about tires and the bulk-trash issue. I think years ago, the bulk-trash truck 1078 2/22/99 - WHOLE COMM. - Bill No. 990023 did routinely come around on your trash collection day; that was years and years ago. I could understand if it's more cost-efficient now that people call and what not. What about tires? Is that the same system? And does it take five to six days to get tires picked up? And people kind of think that you can put one tire out with your trash, and it will get picked up, but I found that not to be true. So even if it's one tire, people need to call the Department or what?
Yes. The way our regulations are written right now, households are allowed to set out up to two tires, and it says on trash day. However --
In the last -- I can't remember how many years ago that it was, the State law changed to say that we could not take tires with the trash, so they are left behind. So, you know, even if people put them out on trash day, we can't take them with the trash truck. 1079 2/22/99 - WHOLE COMM. - Bill No. 990023 So for tires as well as metal products and appliances, we're required to take those separately on the bulk truck. And we don't use the bulk truck for tires; we take a compactor, and we're using one separate compactor and putting that on the street just to get tires.
Would it be easy if the driver of the truck could write down the fact that he saw tires on X, Y, and Z block while he was waiting for the other two people to put the trash in the truck?
Well, they're not just waiting when they're driving the truck, so I would not want to depend on that system for them to identify and write down the activity of, you know, what's left on the street. We do have our supervisors identifying it, but I think the one that is most effective is when the citizen just calls in and says, I have a refrigerator that needs to be picked up, or I have tires in my house, or there's tires on the corner, or whatever it may be. Unfortunately, there are a lot of vendors and garages that don't do the right thing 1080 2/22/99 - WHOLE COMM. - Bill No. 990023 with tires, and they're placing them out as well. That causes an additional burden with our system because we get those tires in addition to what's in the household.
All right thank you, Madame Chair. And I will follow up with the information on street signs.
Thank you. The Chair recognizes Councilman Kenney.
Thank you, Madame Chair. The recurring theme in this entire set of questioning has been paying attention to details that create refuse on the streets, which creates in the minds of people who live here a terrible attitude about their neighborhood and about maybe even the future of the city. It is a dirt, dirty city, and we are a wasteful society. So not the Street Department's fault in toto that we have a dirty city; it is people's attitudes about the way dispose of their trash, the way they haphazardly throw things into the street, the way that they change a tire and 1081 2/22/99 - WHOLE COMM. - Bill No. 990023 leave it on the fire hydrant, the way that they have basically looked at the city as a trash dump. And I've seen people in suits and ties throw their trash at the bus stop, little kids with their parents throw their trash in the street, people dump trash onto the highway, everywhere. And the issue for me is, we should be as fastidious and as angry about what those goes on in that regard as we do in drug-dealing on the corner and anything else that's a problem in the city. Why are we not expanding our enforcement division and writing tickets for all of this stuff? For example, we had this discussion the other day at the briefing, but it wasn't on the record at that time and I want it on the record now. People who own multifamily dwellings, who rent them out and actually run businesses -- when you have three, four, five apartments in a building, it is a business. Those people, many of them, put their trash out the hour after the trash truck leaves for its collection day, and that 1082 2/22/99 - WHOLE COMM. - Bill No. 990023 trash accumulates, people from the neighborhood then think it's the place to dump more trash. Then scavengers come through rodents, animals -- I mean, it is an absolute unbelievable, depressing eyesore. Why are we not out there with Street enforcement people writing up ticket every single minute to get people's -- 'cause you can't -- education stuff is great, and we send out these little brochures and we have people knocking on doors, and we do -- the only thing people really understand is when you hammer them with something like a ticket or tow their car. I mean, we had people running around without auto insurance. Finally, after years, we started taking their cars, 'cause no one thought we were serious. I honestly believe that if we don't put the brooms back on the trucks and have management force our employees or encourage our employees to clean up after themselves, if we don't write tickets to multifamily dwellings that are throwing their trash out every day, if we don't come down on tire companies and all the other people who are people trashing the city, the attitude of people 1083 2/22/99 - WHOLE COMM. - Bill No. 990023 will never change, that this street, this city could be a clean, decent place to live. And I would encourage you, and if you want to comment, please. We had this discussion with Deputy Commissioner Tollson about the ability for us to collect these fines that we write up. I talked with Judge Cermelli over at BAA, and he says he wouldn't have any problem collecting these; he as collect them as we collect any citation that is written. I think we've got to get serious on coming down hard on these people who think that the city's streets and its neighborhoods are trash dumps. And that's, I think, with the exception of the Hot-In-Place discussion, everything else has centered around dirty streets and dirty people and how we change their behavior, enforce a change in their behavior to get a handle on the streets and the condition of our neighborhoods.