Committee Hearing, June 6, 2003

¡›î› COUNCIL OF THE CITY OF PHILADELPHIA PUBLIC HEARING COMMITTEES ON FINANCE and TRANSPORTATION - - - Room 696, City Hall Philadelphia, Pennsylvania Friday, June 6, 2003 10:15 a.m. - - - RESOLUTION 020607 - Resolution authorizing the City Council Committees on Finance and Transportation to hold hearings to examine SEPTA's Market Street Elevated Reconstruction Project in West Philadelphia; its fiscal impact on local businesses and its overall effect on the community and the City at large. - - - PRESENT: COUNCILWOMAN JANNIE BLACKWELL, Chair COUNCILMAN MICHAEL NUTTER - - - V A R A L L O, INCORPORATED LITIGATION SUPPORT SERVICES 1835 Market Street, Suite 600 Philadelphia, Pennsylvania 19103 215.561.2220 215.567.2670 ¡›î› I N D E X RESOLUTION 020607 STEVEN SABO, SEPTA .......................... FRANCES JONES, SEPTA ........................ FAYE MOORE, SEPTA ........................... 12 DEBORAH MCGREGOR ............................ 20 JACKIE WILLIS ............................... 21 REVEREND BARNES ............................. 22 REVEREND JAMES ALLEN ........................ 25 LILLIE CLAITT, SEPTA ........................ 30 JOHN MACKLIN ................................ 37 RON BEAL .................................... 67 HORACE CLOUDEN .............................. 74 CLIFF ENGLISH ............................... 78 WILLIAM HAMLIN .............................. 86 BEVERLY BELL ................................ 90 3 06/06/03 - FINANCE & TRANSPORTATION - RES. 020607

Good morning. We thank you all for coming this morning. I think we've worn people out. Our crowd is a little sparse. Thank you very much. This is a continuation of the joint Committee on Finance and Transportation that was held on Friday, May 16th at 10:00 a.m., with regard to Resolution No. 020607. We'll ask the Clerk to read the Resolution again. Clerk, please read the title of the Bill.

Resolution No. 020607, a Resolution authorizing the City Council Committees on Finance and Transportation to hold hearings to examine SEPTA's Market Street Elevated Reconstruction Project in West Philadelphia; its fiscal impact on local businesses and its overall effect on the community and the City at large.

Thank you very much. We would ask Ms. Moore and Ms. Jones, or whomever would like to come to our witness table. Again, we thank Dr. Allen for being 4 06/06/03 - FINANCE & TRANSPORTATION - RES. 020607 here, for all of you from the community and all of you who are here. We're very, very happy. We've tried to make some progress in between. We would like to have either Ms. Moore or Frances or the Clerk, however you would prefer, to begin our agenda. We have made some progress with regard to lighting on the SEPTA El Project. We received your letter dated May 23rd just one week subsequent to our meeting, for which we are grateful. Would you like to read your letter or comment, Ms. Moore? Thank you all for being here and welcome again.

Thank you very much. Since I have taken the opportunity to sort of beat my engineers pretty badly, they've done a nice thing. I think I'm going to sort of pass this on over to Steve Sabo, since he can take a couple of the "at a boys," since I've given him a lot of the others. So if Mr. Sabo could take the opportunity to just tell us about the lighting and the current status.

Thank you. 5 06/06/03 - FINANCE & TRANSPORTATION - RES. 020607 Good morning. Please identify yourself and spell your last name for the stenographer.

Certainly. Good morning, Councilwoman. My name is Steven Sabo, S-A-B-O. I'm an Assistant General Manager with SEPTA for the capital design and construction. With regard to the lighting, there's a two-step approach, and the steps have begun as we speak. It's already in progress. We are in the process of replacing 27 existing luminaires, or light fixtures, on the pedestrian sides of the Market Street Elevated that are either missing or broken, and they will be repaired. The work has started. It will be completed within two weeks, and that's conservative. We hope to finish it within less time than that. The second approach, which has also begun, is a dialog with both PECO and the City with regard to supplementing the existing lights and adding light fixtures beneath the Elevated structure, beneath the existing lights, but facing out into the travel way underneath the El structure, to include additional lighting at the intersections, not just beneath the Elevated 6 06/06/03 - FINANCE & TRANSPORTATION - RES. 020607 structure. That work has begun, and we're consistent in providing you with a conservative forecast again at the end for completion of this, at the end of August, but you would see some progress within the next few weeks, depending on where we start. The reason for the conservative estimate as to the completion of all of that supplemental lighting, with is approximately 220 to 250 additional lights, is because we need to engage in a consistent dialog with PECO. They've indicated that it's not a problem adding the lights; however, depending upon whether the feed, the power supply feed, comes from manholes on the street or from poles on the crossing streets, and whether or not there's sufficient power to take this additional load of additional lighting needs to be analyzed on a block-by-block basis, and that may interrupt the consistent flow of adding the lights. But we are procuring the light fixtures currently. We've spoken to PECO. There is no substantial additional engineering outside of engaging PECO, and you should see progress within the next couple of weeks, with full completion by the end of August. 7 06/06/03 - FINANCE & TRANSPORTATION - RES. 020607

Thank you very much. Are there any questions either from my staff or other Members of Council represented here or any questions from any of the community members in this regard? Let me also state that we do have a letter dated May 23rd from Faye Moore, General Manager, and we are happy to make that available for any members of the community, as well as the record for those who may require them. We will also have the stenographer submit it in full for our record. Thank you very much, Mr. Sabo. That is great, great, great. Maybe our next issue could be parking lots, since we talked about parking. We have been in communication with Rick Dickson from the Parking Authority, who is happy it's my responsibility to let the 16th Police District know so that we don't have any problem with ticketing on 49th Street. It's fine. So in the area of 49th Street between Market and Haverford, that's a go in terms of the shoppers, people parking there. So we can start that. We need to maybe consider today a date when 8 06/06/03 - FINANCE & TRANSPORTATION - RES. 020607 you're comfortable starting and when you think it's good and when we think it's good. We're ready to start whenever SEPTA decides they're ready, because we already have an agreement with the Parking Authority that 49th Street is fine. Now, the other areas we talked about, you mentioned that there is a -- we talked about 52nd Street, 56th Street, 59th Street when it's available, since that's already crowded a lot. 52nd Street, you have a small lot and 56th Street; am I correct?

That's correct, Councilwoman.

So I will ask you when is good. The only other thing we talked about is Della Clark's lot, Enterprise Center, and they want a proposal that we have to prepare. So that one is delayed until we work out some formal agreement with Della Clark, if that's possible. In terms of the other -- we know 59th Street is crowded, so I think we just list that as a parking area. But the fact that it's generally crowded means that when there's spaces available they can be used. It's already used as a lot now. 9 06/06/03 - FINANCE & TRANSPORTATION - RES. 020607 But we can still list it as a place; when available, people can use. For 52nd Street and 56th Street, we ask you again to determine when you think lots would be available for us to begin.

56th Street is currently available. We've provided additional lighting that illuminates the parking lot itself right there at 56th and Market. The spaces have been delineated on the lot itself, and it's been paved over. So it's really in good condition and is currently being used by shoppers or people or the business people in and around that area. 52nd Street is -- we're in the process of working that out. There is an issue around a canopy that has to be removed. We've gotten your concurrence and your support in removing the canopy there. As soon as that's complete, that lot will be available for parking also.

So then we can note for the record that 56th Street, that lot -- that can hold about how many cars?

56th Street holds approximately 16 cars.

Approximately 10 06/06/03 - FINANCE & TRANSPORTATION - RES. 020607 16 cars on 56 street. And on 49th Street from Market to Haverford, I don't know how many cars that holds. I'll have to ask my staff member when he comes back. That's a very, very long distance. I can't guess those numbers, but I'll ask my staff member to judge that. That's a very, very long area and a major parking opportunity. They are currently available. Both of those spaces are currently available. So 49th Street and 56th Street are currently available. 56th Street is a work in progress. And 59th Street, when there are spaces available, it's fine to use. And again with the Enterprise Center or with 45th and Market, that is not yet ready because we have to do some formal proposal writing to have that done. Is that okay with everyone? Any questions on that issue? (No response.)

All right. So we've gone through lighting, number one. Parking lots, number two. We're happy to repeat it if there are further questions. Would you like to repeat where we are, or are you okay? 11 06/06/03 - FINANCE & TRANSPORTATION - RES. 020607 We talked about lighting. We have a report from Mr. Sabo from SEPTA about lighting. That's starting immediately. Some of it won't be finished until the end of August, but that's beginning now. We have a letter available. We talked about parking lots. 49th Street is ready now, from Market to Haverford. 56th Street is ready now. That's another cars. 59th 10 Street is crowded, so when there's space, that's 11 available. 52nd Street, we're still working on. 12 And on 45th and Market at the Enterprise Center, 13 that's not ready yet. They want a full proposal and 14 a whole big formal to-do. So that's a work in 15 progress. 16 Those are the two areas we've covered; one, lighting; and, two, parking. Am I correct, SEPTA? Now we're up to, three, the shuttle service. So that's a work in progress as well. Shall I call on you first, SEPTA?

It's me again. I'd like to actually tackle the shuttle service at the same time we talk about 52nd Street, if you don't mind. The last time we were here at City 12 06/06/03 - FINANCE & TRANSPORTATION - RES. 020607 Council on May 16th, we left with a notion that 52nd Street should be phased to provide a single lane of traffic, either north or south, depending upon the progress of the work on the other side of the barricade. We're prepared to do that. We said at the time it would take approximately weeks. I 8 think we focused on the end of August again to 9 accomplish that work. We're still prepared to do 10 that. 11 However, we'd like to encourage as a 12 consideration of the other option that was discussed, which would be accelerating 52nd Street, to complete by July 4th. The reason that we are asking you to consider that is because we offer to combine that with opening up Market Street that's currently closed at 45th Street at about the same time that 52nd Street is completed to allow the 31 Bus back onto Market Street between the beginning of the portal area for the Market Street Elevated, or approximately 44th Street as it strikes Market Street.

Let me do the simple English, and then he can complicate it for us. We are putting the 31 back on Market. 13 06/06/03 - FINANCE & TRANSPORTATION - RES. 020607 We evaluated shuttle versus closure versus single lane versus something else. We are proposing to put the 31 back on Market. In order to do that -- right now, I think it's PECO at 45th Street. They're doing some utility work. They're supposed to be done sometime around the 1st of July. That coincides with the option that we presented the first time with 52nd Street. If we went in with a 10-hour day, including a Saturday, we could complete 52nd Street in its entirety, get it out of the way, and it would be open at the same time 45th Street would be open. We would then have the 31 on Market Street. So we wouldn't need A shuttle because you'd have the regular service on back there with some detours. We have our operations people out there doing tours now. They have to look at clearances. They have to look at different paths. But there would be some detours as the construction progressed, but we figured the best way -- the more complicated way, but the better way for the community and community impact would be sending the 31 back down Market Street.

That's 14 06/06/03 - FINANCE & TRANSPORTATION - RES. 020607 wonderful. If we get the bus route back, that helps major. That gets rid of a whole lot of major complications. I had my staff doing a route, the whole shuttle thing, where it stops, where it picks up. That would make life so much simpler for us all.

That's what we determined, because we had the same problem. The shuttle would have to be integrated with bigger service and we were coming into all sorts of complications. So we figured this was the better way. It is more complicated to us, but it is easier for the community. So I got rid of all complications that Steve would have. But we need to make sure everybody recognizes that at 52nd, it would be 10-hour days. We're not out of there at five o'clock. It would be a 10-hour day. We would be there on Saturday. But by the holidays, the 31 would be coming up and down Market Street.

That's wonderful. So you're saying by July 4th?

Yes. I've given them a target of before the "Welcome America."

That's great. 15 06/06/03 - FINANCE & TRANSPORTATION - RES. 020607 That would be wonderful. You can give us a copy of the time frame, the whole shuttle route and all that stuff, so you can develop that. Schedule is the word. Thank you.

Councilwoman, prior to any action, we will advise you, of course, prior to taking it out to the community. Because, of course, this would necessitate us putting together a meeting to advise the community because this is a considerable change of the status of the construction, as well as the status of transportation on Market Street. So prior to any action, we will make sure that you get it, as well as notifying the community.

That's great. If we want, we can schedule one more before then, depending on everybody's summer schedule. We can schedule another hearing here, or we can do a community meeting. I'm happy to do it either way.

Community meeting.

Let's do a community meeting.

That would be great. Then we'll take any information out to the community 16 06/06/03 - FINANCE & TRANSPORTATION - RES. 020607 versus having them come into Center City.

All right. So members of the community, where is good to meet? Should we meet at White Rock? Should we meet at Reverend Barnes' church? Where is good for us to meet? Well, we'll talk about that at the end. We'll think about a time that's good. They're trying to -- Faye Moore and Frances and Mr. Sabo are trying to get together a schedule before "Welcome America," before July 4th. So we will need to see the bus schedule, and it would be good for everybody to have a meeting, if everybody finds it easier, in the community. For me, it doesn't matter. I'm happy to make it either place. You want an evening meeting in the community?

Yes.

Whatever works for the community.

So if the community wants an evening meeting, maybe you all can kind of consider before July 4th where and what time, and then we'll ask our fine pastors and work it out from there. 17 06/06/03 - FINANCE & TRANSPORTATION - RES. 020607

We'll also assist with the location, Councilwoman, if that's okay with you.

All right.

Councilwoman Blackwell, might I also ask that as we are developing it, if we can also have support people to sort of look at it and give us input before we finalize; that way when we go into the community we have some idea of what the community really had as an expectation?

I will ask those who are interested in this area, please leave your name and number with me, so we can give it to Ms. Moore and Frances before we leave. People who want to work on the bus issue and the bus route, if you give me your name and number, then we will list you. And I'll also list Jeff Elder from my staff. Let me know at the end of the meeting, and I will give it to them before they leave, people who want to work on that issue specifically. That's great. Our next issue, number four, is cleaning up the project area.

There are several initiatives in that regard. The first and most important one is the mandate given to our contractors to police 18 06/06/03 - FINANCE & TRANSPORTATION - RES. 020607 themselves under our supervision and inspection. It's a multi-faceted approach. The first and foremost is to continue to put pressure on our existing contractors to clean the job sites daily and the surrounding area, and to have a greater respect for the community. The second approach is, there's going to be a daily walk down with Jim Baker's group and Michael Tucker, along with other staff personnel, to identify areas where maybe there's been a lapse or there needs to be more attention placed. A third initiative is SEPTA is looking at leasing or purchasing, preferably purchasing, a piece of equipment like a street sweeper, either the push behind, which is generally for refuse, paper or construction debris, which might be the ones that you see that look like a Bobcat that you ride on and it sweeps the streets, but it's a one-man vehicle, and use that on a regular basis to clean the streets. And then Faye has something to add to that. SEPTA would buy the vehicle and make sure it's used regularly. The notion is to then turn it over --

We don't know the notion 19 06/06/03 - FINANCE & TRANSPORTATION - RES. 020607 yet. We're taking it one step at a time. We actually have our procurement people now pricing the equipment to see just how quickly we can obtain the equipment. And then, hopefully, we can work with the community to figure out what best to do with the equipment at the conclusion of the project.

The first two initiatives are already under way.

And since SEPTA is looking into that issue of buying a street sweeper, then what we can do is include that with our community agenda. When we meet in the community, we can see where we are at that point at that time and follow-up on that issue. Okay. That's cleaning of the project area. Number five, business loss fund. I'm going to ask Alisa ^ CK ^ CK to comment on the Commerce Department, unless someone from Commerce is here who wants to comment on the issue of -- I believe that this was the one -- this is the issue that we talked to Reverend Barnes about, in losses to the church; am I correct? This issue was more than that. It was about businesses being subsidized. We still have 20 06/06/03 - FINANCE & TRANSPORTATION - RES. 020607 nothing definite. Congressman Fattah's office is still looking into that, and we are still in touch with US Senator Arlen Spector's office, who reached out to us to try to get some subsidy for the businesses. So we have to add that again to our next agenda to see where they are, in terms of trying to get the businesses. You know, that's one of the major issues that created this whole Resolution and caused us to call for hearings, because we know that the businesses can't survive losing 40 to 60 percent of their business income. And so we are still waiting for the Congressman and our US Senators to let us know what they have been able to get for the businesses and what subsidies they can get.

Good morning, Councilwoman and attendees. Thank you. Our consultants tell us that we could be eligible for a business loss insurance policy paid for by SEPTA. And in that mindset, we get a third party reimbursement possibility versus the reparation -- the line item in the federal budget. So would you allow us to add that option to this item? I apologize. My name is Deborah 21 06/06/03 - FINANCE & TRANSPORTATION - RES. 020607 McGregor, M-C-G-R-E-G-O-R. Again, the item would be a business loss insurance policy for those businesses affected with the policy premium paid for by SEPTA.

All right. Obviously, I don't know anything about it. But we'll ask if SEPTA would look into that. And if, Ms. McGregor, you receive any other info about it, if you would pass that on. I will ask my staff as well to look into this, and then we'll go from there and add that to our follow-up agenda, as well. Are there any other issues with regard to this? Yes, ma'am? Please identify yourself for the record.

Jackie Willis, Willcrest Products, 60th and Market. I've turned in a letter to you today in which I did suggest a moratorium on taxes for the duration of the project. So I wanted that to go into the record.

Thank you very much. A moratorium on taxes. Okay. That is my issue. It was mentioned, and I apologize for not 22 06/06/03 - FINANCE & TRANSPORTATION - RES. 020607 having a response. We did talk about it. I will follow-up. I will deal with the Administration on this issue. I mentioned it, but I've got to formalize it so that we can have a formal response on what we can do in that regard. So that's my assignment to be ready for our community meeting, on the moratorium on taxes. We had one other issue that I wanted to mention before we start talking about minority participation and contracts. Reverend Barnes, are we straight with you giving estimates on what the church lost and all of that? Is that moving along? I remember last time you were going to get some estimates on losses that your church incurred because there was no lighting and you were robbed.

We did submit an initial estimate about a month ago. We haven't heard anything.

Those were submitted to SEPTA?

They were actually given to Michael Tucker. There were some other 23 06/06/03 - FINANCE & TRANSPORTATION - RES. 020607 estimates that we have to submit to them. But the initial estimates, we haven't heard anything. It's been approximately one month today.

We will ask SEPTA to follow-up on that for our next meeting, estimates from Pastor Barnes for his church at 6014 Market Street on their losses. Let me ask one question before we call on Jim Baker for minority participation. That will be our last issue. I suppose that will take more time than others. Reverend Barnes.

I wanted to mention that there are some other pastors here from the community that decided to come out.

Would you introduce them?

We just wanted to introduce them.

Please.

We have Pastor James Allen from Devine Memorial Baptist Church. Pastor Allen, if you would stand.

Thank you. 24 06/06/03 - FINANCE & TRANSPORTATION - RES. 020607 All of us know he is one of the leading pastors in our City and we thank him and his church for all their leadership. (Applause.)

Also on Market Street, Pastor Napoleate Birch (ph). He's from 6043 Market Street. He's across the street from our church, towards 61st Street. He decided to come out today. (Applause.)

Thank you, Pastor. Thank you for coming.

One of the things that occurred was, we had an opportunity to meet with Pastor Allen at the Keystone Association session not too long ago and he wanted to come today to give his support. In fact, can we actually have Pastor Allen come up and speak on behalf of the Association?

Absolutely. Thank you. Pastor Allen, Reverend Doctor James S. Allen, we welcome you. Do you want to sit on the other side of the table in one of the comfortable 25 06/06/03 - FINANCE & TRANSPORTATION - RES. 020607 chairs? Pastor Barnes doesn't mind our informality, but we would not in any way want to offend you. We thank you for taking time from your schedule and being here.

Thank you, Councilwoman Blackwell. It is very kind of you to give me this opportunity. I really have nothing to say. And I read somewhere that it is terrible for a fellow to have nothing to say and then say it anyway. I just came to listen and to give whatever support I can on behalf of the Pennsylvania Eastern Keystone Baptist Association and, of course, Devine Memorial Church. I've known Councilwoman Blackwell ever since she's been a Councilperson. Her late husband was one of the best Councilpersons who has ever served anywhere.

Thank you.

I just wanted to come by and say that.

Thank you so much, Dr. Allen. We applaud you. Thank you for all that you have been to our City. I'd like to mention two other areas and 06/06/03 - FINANCE & TRANSPORTATION - RES. 020607 then we'll go to minority participation. And that is, as my staff reminds me, Ms. McGregor continues to mention this independent audit issue. I don't know where SEPTA is on that.

I can tell you that since we -- it is unfortunate that people don't believe the numbers and some of the representations. I will continue to assert that the numbers are there. They're verifiable. So I can't see SEPTA paying for an independent assessment when we believe that the information we have is valid information. So I'm just assuming someone else is interested in doing the independent assessment. We didn't put that on our plates as something to pursue as a funding agent.

All right. I'll let the community respond to that. That was point number six and number seven. As we move forward in trying to do work on the whole SEPTA strip, we continue to need community participation and we'll continue to need our meetings and involvement on issues like curbs and sidewalks, trees, all of the things that the community wants to see. So I'm hopeful that after 27 06/06/03 - FINANCE & TRANSPORTATION - RES. 020607 we get past this emergency mode, that we can stay together to meet on the issues that affect the entire strip. Ms. McGregor.

Thank you. Councilwoman Blackwell, I hear the answer regarding the internal audit, and put forth that the community cannot afford to follow its observations with definable figures. We are not the party to ask for and then pay for an audit. But the Federal Government General Office of Accounting can provide additional services to their grantees. As a former Commissioner of Health, looking at large projects in the Virgin Islands at the level of the multi-million dollars that we're talking about -- I've built two hospitals -- my general assessment is that a half-billion dollars for a project that generates 40 jobs in its affected community has to raise somebody's question, somebody's idea, that something is not right. When the funding goes to subcontractors and services are offered, and with those services there is always the statement, we must go and find some funds to do this. I want to know where the 28 06/06/03 - FINANCE & TRANSPORTATION - RES. 020607 money has gone. The deliverables do not match this size of a project. If we have to ask beyond the City and the State, we will. But we offer to SEPTA the opportunity to answer those questions. Contractors, deliverables, scope of service, change orders, any accountant would be able to look at that and say, "This has been promised. This has been delivered. These are the funds that are either available or not available." We feel that the community issues have been underfunded. We do not get the benefit from this project at the scale that this project is existing. So I put the answer back to you that perhaps we can find another option, but this has to be an item of importance. Thank you.

Let me ask a question as a follow-up. Is this information open to the public --

Yes, ma'am, it is.

-- as it currently exists? Have you had the opportunity to see any of that, Ms. McGregor? 29 06/06/03 - FINANCE & TRANSPORTATION - RES. 020607

No, ma'am. And the documents that were provided at the last meeting are insufficient to extrapolate any of the information that we've asked for. So I will avail myself any time, any place to review with Council documents that SEPTA provides.

I'm happy to have my Council staff Darwin Beauvais available. Ms. Moore, would you make a time and an opportunity available for Ms. McGregor and whomever she chooses to review?

Absolutely. I will also add two things. The Federal Transit Administration is our cognizant agent. We meet with them quarterly. This is one topic absolutely at the forefront. There is also a project management oversight company, and again, they look at this information monthly. They give us all sorts of reviews. They're looking over our shoulder in every path that we take, so we'll be more than happy to make that information available.

Thank you very much. Maybe we can make you a point person for the group in that area to review that, along with 30 06/06/03 - FINANCE & TRANSPORTATION - RES. 020607 anybody else you deem from the community, and my staff attorney, and whomever you would like to view.

Thank you, Councilwoman.

Thank you. The Chair recognizes Councilman Nutter is here. We thank him for being here this morning. And I opened the letter from Willcrest, Ms. Willis, and certainly we will submit it for the record as a concern about her losses at Willcrest, and we will also check into this issue in terms of reimbursement for all the losses. So I will assume that responsibility as well. I believe that now we are on the next issue, which is minority participation contractors and employees, that we said we would discuss at this meeting. So I'll turn it over to SEPTA to comment.

Good morning. My name is Lillie Claitt, and that's L-I-L-L-I-E, C-L-A-I-T-T. Good morning, Councilwoman, Councilman. In response to the utilization of minorities and females on the Market Street Project, following our meeting, our May 5th meeting, SEPTA provided a letter dated May 15th in which we responded to a specific question, question number 10 31 06/06/03 - FINANCE & TRANSPORTATION - RES. 020607 to be exact, and if I may read it. , to increase the participation by our minorities and women in the construction area, in not only the contracting, but the employment opportunities available on the Market Street Elevated Project. In terms of DBE participation, we have made extra efforts to assist the minority businesses. In terms of convenience and reviewing documents for the solicitations that have come out for the project, we have provided for review purposes the bid documents, which typically cost in the range of $300 to $350 each. Those documents have been made available at SEPTA's offices at 1234 Market Street, both in the Small and Disadvantaged Business Utilizations Office and our procurement department, at SEPTA's Market Street Elevated 32 06/06/03 - FINANCE & TRANSPORTATION - RES. 020607 Community Information Center at 5344 Chestnut Street, at our consultant Contract Compliance's offices at 3624 Market Street, at the African American Chambers office at 701 Market Street, and the Enterprise Center's library at 4548 Market Street. We have provided a census to the minority contractors interested in the particular projects in reviewing the bids. We've done networking to identify those particular areas of work that they could participate in, and introductions to the contractors for their participation. In conjunction with the construction packages, we have held specific outreach efforts. Specifically, we've held six information sessions that have provided a preview of the scope of work for each construction package prior to it going out on the street, so that the contractors would have an idea of the type of work that would be involved. In addition, we've held three contractor and prime contractor sessions where we've invited the prime contractors that have expressed interest in participating or bidding on the contracts, and 33 06/06/03 - FINANCE & TRANSPORTATION - RES. 020607 the DBEs so that they could interact and hopefully enter into business relationships for subcontracting or contracting opportunities. We've collaborated with the Small Business Administration and seven major lending institutions to provide assistance in the financial concerns for the minority businesses. 4 million. In terms of the EEO participation, in 1999 we established a Workers Intake Referral Center at the West Philadelphia Partnership located at 3901 Market Street, and through that process, by the end of 2002, we had a total of 617 applicants that had expressed interest in working on the Market Street Elevated Project. Also, in 2002 in terms of training for opportunities in the construction trades, we collaborated with the Greater Philadelphia Urban Affairs Coalition, and we enrolled 55 of our applicants in their training program. At the conclusion of a 16-week construction orientation training, seven of our applicants successfully 34 06/06/03 - FINANCE & TRANSPORTATION - RES. 020607 completed that program. Since 1999, we've conducted Equal 4 Employment Opportunity workshops focussing on resume 5 writing, interviewing skills, alternative 6 opportunities and training resources. In addition, 7 we've held three major job fairs held in 2000, 2001 8 and 2002. All the MSE applicants were invited to 9 participate.

10 We have ongoing communication with each 11 and every one of the prime contractors currently working on the Market Street Elevated Project to determine if there's any need for additional employment, any new hires, and we provide lists of those applicants that are available to us that have shown interest in the project, not only the union applicants, but also the non-union applicants. In November of 2002 we contacted 258 of our applicants for the training program, Market Street Elevated training program, and following the initial interviews and orientations, we had 32 applicants that were enrolled in a Diversified Apprenticeship Training Program, and 11 were enrolled in the Tradeswomen of Purpose, Women in Nontraditional Work, which is TOP/WIN. By mid-June 35 06/06/03 - FINANCE & TRANSPORTATION - RES. 020607 or July these successful applicants will be eligible for employment in the Market Street Elevated's Access to Jobs, which is an on-the-job training program. Ms. Frances Jones will be able to provide you with update on the status of those applicants and their training. In terms of measuring and monitoring the DBE and EEO participation achievement throughout the course of this project, each contractor is required to submit to our office monthly what we call DBE Utilization Reports and EEO Utilization Reports. The contractors are also required to submit for their employment, their certified weekly payrolls, in addition to their monthly achievement and employment for not only the construction area, but also the increased minority participation. On-site monitoring is conducted daily. Through the services of Jim Baker and Associates, we have a site monitor that walks the site daily. In that process, not only do we just walk up and down the site, but we interview any new employees that are shown on the project, any new contractors that come on board. We immediately interview them to determine whether or not they will be hiring, and 36 06/06/03 - FINANCE & TRANSPORTATION - RES. 020607 who they will be hiring. When they do hire, we interview those individuals to see what trades they are in, and we monitor throughout their course of participation at the time, whether or not there's any terminations and things of that nature. We also participate in biweekly construction progress meetings, whereby if there's any concerns regarding the DBE or the EEO issues or progress, we can bring that up, and that's brought to the attention of the group at that time. One of the sanctions for failure to comply with reporting requirements, and if there's any major issues regarding the utilization of our minority contractors or the employees, there are sanctions of withholding of payment for those contractors who are in violation or if there's any issues that are outstanding. In addition to that brief overview, we provided with this package an update of where we stand with the DBE and EEO progress through January of this year, and that's in the package that's been provided for you this morning. The information contains the progress on the minority contracting, and that includes progress for four professional 37 06/06/03 - FINANCE & TRANSPORTATION - RES. 020607 service contracts and three construction packages awarded to date with actual activity.

Let me introduce -- this is John Macklin. He does all our MBEC stuff, Minority Business Enterprise Center, work for City Council. He's assigned to the President and the Members of the City Council, so he's our employee to deal with minority issues. We've asked him to help us in this area and to come to our hearing. So that is who he is. John Macklin. M-A-C-K-L-I-N, for the stenographer. John.

Good morning. Ms. Claitt, you mentioned you have monthly monitoring reports?

Yes.

Do you have the monthly monitoring reports for last month?

Yes, we do.

Are they in this packet?

No, they are not. The monthly monitoring from each of the contractors, that is on file, and that is in the process of being input into our database for generation of reports. 38 06/06/03 - FINANCE & TRANSPORTATION - RES. 020607

So in this file here is just the monitoring up to January?

Yes. This is a summary. This is not all of the back-up detail that goes with this. This is summarizing all the participation through January 2003.

Okay. Because I'm a little concerned because we're having some complaints coming in from contractors now, from having some problems on these projects with the project managers. So if those monthly reports would reflect -- I'm hoping would reflect the job site meetings. If there's any problems these primes are having with the minorities, it should reflect in those job site meetings, I imagine you have weekly or monthly.

Yes. Biweekly. There are minutes taken, and any issues are documented through the minutes, yes.

Are you aware of some of your project managers, after they've signed and agreed a certain dollar amount of minority participation on some of these contracts, that they're going back now and asking those minority 39 06/06/03 - FINANCE & TRANSPORTATION - RES. 020607 contractors to reduce their cost, their unit cost?

I'm not aware of that, sir, no. 5

That is happening.

Do you know what project in particular?

Yes.

And can give us specifics? I'm Faye Moore.

Yes. The project, I guess it's Bridge and Pratt.

That's a different project.

It's a different project?

Yes. But give us the information anyway.

But it's going on now? It's still continuing?

Yes, it is.

Because we need to make sure that our minority contractors are addressing their concerns. Because this is some of the problems that are happening with our minority contractors and why they're being financially stripped of completing these projects. 40 06/06/03 - FINANCE & TRANSPORTATION - RES. 020607 I have a document here I want to share with you what is happening not just with SEPTA, but with a lot of the prime contractors in this City. Contractors have established patterns of abusive practices designed to systematically strip the financial strength of our black and Hispanic contractors, and then take advantage of them on their weakened financial conditions. That's happening now on SEPTA's project, one of your SEPTA projects.

I'm sorry. I couldn't hear the tail end of what you were saying. Could you just repeat the tail end for me?

Let me start over. You have some prime contractors who have established patterns of abusive practices designed to systematically strip the financial strength of black and Hispanic contractors and then take advantage of their weakened financial conditions. They create an ongoing cash flow crisis and have orchestrated a combination of events to financially and logistically break black and Hispanic contractors, which keeps them at a marginal growth. We mentioned the other day, why we don't 41 06/06/03 - FINANCE & TRANSPORTATION - RES. 020607 have more minority and black contractors on the projects, or why they're not bidding on your projects. It's because of the predatory prime contractors that have major contracts with SEPTA. How they go about stripping minority firms is a problem.

Excuse me. Were you going to give us some specific names?

I didn't want to.

But you're prepared, even afterwards, to give --

Yes. The contracts that these minority firms are assigned, the subcontracts that the prime gets our subcontractor to sign off on, they're designed to strip the finances of our minority black and Hispanic contractors. Let me give you an example. " Let me read something to you. It states, "Independent of any action by the owner, which is SEPTA, contractor may at any time terminate subcontractor for the convenience of the contractor for any reason and without any default by the subcontractor under this 42 06/06/03 - FINANCE & TRANSPORTATION - RES. " These minority contractors are signing off on this. And they're working on the project. And when your project manager decides they want to get rid of a subcontractor, they will go back to his subcontractor agreement and bring these issues up. " And it states, "Upon written request by the contractor, the subcontractor shall furnish to the contractor in writing such evidence as the contractor may require relating to the subcontractor's ability to fully perform the work specified in this agreement in the manner and within the time specified herein. Such evidence shall include, but not be limited to the following: The status of the subcontractor's payments to his subcontractors, suppliers and/or material; the status of a subcontractor's payment to a union or other such fringe benefit plans; the financial condition of the subcontractor; the subcontractor's ability to timely finish or furnish all management, supervision, labor materials, supplies, equipment, tools, machinery, plants, services, engineering, to perform the work specified in the agreement; 43 06/06/03 - FINANCE & TRANSPORTATION - RES. " When they want to get rid of any subcontractor, these are some of the predatory practices they will put on the subcontractor. This has to stop. I submit to you and I hope that you will begin to not only monitor up and down the street, but on these jobs where these minority contractors are working. We can't legislate attitudes. We can't legislate attitudes. And we've got to make sure that the prime and the subcontractor develop a relationship so that they can get along. But there's a report out that all of them are adhering to. We first thought it was a joke. But as time goes on, we can see the identity of this document and how it's really hurting our programs. You may not be aware of what is going on from the prime contractor's perspective because all you know is he is the low bidder and he has his documents stating who is minorities are. But when that minority starts to work, he gets in there maybe four, five months, almost a year, his prices have 44 06/06/03 - FINANCE & TRANSPORTATION - RES. 020607 already been set. " That is not fair. The article I'm talking about is How to Evade Affirmative Action Programs for Minority Contractors and how to Drive Compliance Officers Off Their Rocker. This document has been out for years. It's over years old that 11 I know. But these prime contractors, they belong to 12 the associations and they have this document and 13 their members have it and they share it with them. 14 The document states, "You're a general contractor 15 proposing to bid for some work from a public agency. " It says, "You of course have nothing 20 against minorities. After all, when your people first arrived here in this old country, they were minorities. And you still consider yourself to be a minority. You disagree with the Affirmative Action programs in principle. After all, why should some minorities receive preferential treatment over 45 06/06/03 - FINANCE & TRANSPORTATION - RES. 020607 others? You had to fight and scramble for what you have. Nobody gave you any quarters. " These are documents that are going around to prime contractors. This is why we haven't been able to grow, because of the predatory practices that these prime contractors are putting on our subcontractors, especially black and Hispanic.

Then it goes on to say, "On the practical side, who wants a bunch of inexperienced, incompetent, financially weak minority subcontractors messing up a good job? Perhaps you would like to do everything in your power to frustrate the Affirmative Action program, that is, without getting exposed, or blacklisted or censored. You can do it. " And they gave you the outlines. "Rules, Always be courteous, always be congenial. Always express sympathy for minorities. Never refuse to do anything. Promise anything, then procrastinate like hell. Never give the slightest inch without a 46 06/06/03 - FINANCE & TRANSPORTATION - RES. " Then they go into procedures. "Secure one or more lists of minority contractors. Send out invitations to all and everyone on that list. Discourage those minority contractors who respond. Never lend a set of drawings to minority contractors. Don't be generous with information. After bid openings, rigorously screen those minority contractors who submitted bids. Deal with those minority subs who are apparently not unqualified and who have submitted reasonable prices before the bid due date. Award as many contracts as you can as early as possible. Award one or more contracts to minority subs. " Now, here is the kicker. "If anyone should ever question you about results, point to the following: Your exhaustive efforts to recruit minority contractors. The number of minority contractors you invited to the bid; unfortunately, most of them don't bother. The time and effort you spent in investigating and negotiating with them; unfortunately most of them are unqualified or could not carry the work financially. Your willingness to 47 06/06/03 - FINANCE & TRANSPORTATION - RES. 020607 permit them a last look; unfortunately, most of them simply could not meet a competitive price. Of course you are willing to give them the contract at the higher cost if the public agency is willing to adjust your contract price. In spite of the all difficulties, you were able to award a significant number of dollars to minority contractors. " These are some of things that black contractors, Hispanic contractors and minority contractors are facing through predatory contractors. Not all of them are predatory. But what comes across my desk are letters indicating that there is something really going on out here. Not knowing -- the agency, SEPTA, not knowing what it really is. So if you have monitors out there, you need to be out there checking with every minority contractor to make sure that he is being fairly treated. Is his work being performed properly? Is his funding coming in on time? Because we know if that project manager -- he belongs to the associations, those same associations that filed suit against our program, that cut this 48 06/06/03 - FINANCE & TRANSPORTATION - RES. 020607 program across this country out. As a result, we've been retrogressing ever since. That project manager needs to be sensitive, have sensitive training. You mentioned about training. These project managers, they are trained by their associations to eliminate minority contractors through the process. " Some of them don't even read these contracts, so they don't really know what they're signing. It's their fault, perhaps. But it's so thick. They're more concerned about getting the contract than they are about the substance that will create a financial burden that will destroy their company. So I would suggest that we take a very close look at how we are letting these prime contractors award these contracts to the subcontractors, and then in midstream, in midstream, ask for a reduction of costs. That is going on.

Thank you, Mr. Macklin. We thank you very much. (Applause.)

May I respond? 49 06/06/03 - FINANCE & TRANSPORTATION - RES. 020607 In terms of SEPTA's contracts and our subcontractors, SEPTA's contracts have specific language concerning the contracts and the performance on the contract. The subcontract agreements that are made between the prime and our minority subs, we do receive copies of each and every one of them. We do review them. We communicate directly with the minority contractor to ensure that if there are any problems, that they can come to us about it and we address it immediately. I must say that with the Market Street Elevated Project, which is approximately percent complete, 14 we have not run into any of these types of issues at 15 this point in time. 16 We do follow very closely what happens 17 with the minority contractors that are 18 participating. As I said, we communicate with them. 19 We are very, very concerned about their financial 20 stability at any given time. Any contracts that are awarded, especially the most recently, we've had the opportunity to provide working capital and ensure that the working capital is available for those contractors who are coming about. If there's any issues regarding their finances, we are there with 50 06/06/03 - FINANCE & TRANSPORTATION - RES. 020607 resources to assist them. So as far as the Market Street Elevated Project is concerned, we have not run into any of those types of issues.

Let me ask a few questions that makes it simple for all who are here to understand. As one who doesn't understand any of the technicalities of it -- obviously I understand the issue, or I wouldn't be Finance Chair and Majority Leader. But in terms of the technicalities of it, let's make it easier for all of us to kind of understand what we're talking about. We had a meeting. One of the last community meetings was at White Rock. At that time, a lot of minority contractors came in and complained that there was no minority participation, or community participation for that matter. It kind of becomes the same thing on this project. And we knew that we needed to have that discussion about SEPTA's policy. So before we get into the specifics of it, I'd like to deal with the easy part that's easy for people to understand in terms of who's working on the project and how they're working on it, what went out on bids, whether or not minorities were invited 51 06/06/03 - FINANCE & TRANSPORTATION - RES. 020607 to participate. And, again, ask you to repeat -- you said something about 258 applications were made and 32 people -- did they pass the test? What's that mean? Something about people doing something. I 7 didn't get it all. But we just want to make it 8 plain so that people understand. Where are 9 minorities on this SEPTA Project, who was offered 10 and what are the issues? And then we can hopefully 11 come out of this with something -- and since I did hear you say not everything was bid out, that maybe there are other opportunities for minorities and for community people to apply and to participate so that we can gain something out of this process that makes people feel they are inclusive. They can apply and can get job training.

May I say, while we're concentrating mainly, I guess, on the West Philadelphia Project, the projects that are ongoing, especially on the other end of SEPTA, Bridge and Pratt, up around there, you need to take a more closer look at them. Because while we're up here in the West Philly part, they're down there in Frankford hurting our subcontractors. Those 52 06/06/03 - FINANCE & TRANSPORTATION - RES. 020607 subcontractors have an opportunity to start some work up here in West Philadelphia. But if they're being jerked around in the lower end of the project, to eliminate them from working in the West Philadelphia Project is going to create a problem that we want to try to steer away or stop.

First, if there's any specifics that you can provide to us regarding the contractors that may have submitted a letter of some sort to you, we would be happy to review that and look into the situation to see what the problem may be. So, please, we would appreciate getting that information from you.

Okay. Because you have joint venture projects, contractors, joint venture. For instance, I'm really talking about PKF. They're joint venturing with Mark, and they're joint venturing with another firm, NCI.

This is on the east end; am I correct? We would need to see the information, so that we can investigate it.

If you could just pass that to us afterwards. 53 06/06/03 - FINANCE & TRANSPORTATION - RES. 020607

If I could say first, in terms of the participation for minorities for contracting and employment, they're two separate issues. The contracting meaning -- the best way I can explain it is to say the business side of it, and the employment side is the hiring, the workers that work for the contractors, be it a prime contractor or a subcontractor. If I could just review the information that we have or the report regarding the participation on both DBE and EEO. In the packet you have, under the Disadvantaged Business Enterprise, DBE, Progress Report we have the achievement for minority participation for the professional service contracts first. And keep in mind that the percentages that I give you are based on the payments to the prime contractors versus their payment to --

I think you're making it complicated.

I'm sorry.

I want to know if people had the opportunity to apply for contracts. Before we get into all of the details, I want to know what jobs were available, who can 54 06/06/03 - FINANCE & TRANSPORTATION - RES. 020607 apply, what job training is available. In terms of the details, remember when we had that last community meeting and there was a board up there and somebody wrote numbers, nobody believed them. So I want to go to the heart of how it all starts. We can agree or disagree on the specific numbers later, but I'm trying to start from the beginning. SEPTA begins this project. It's supposed to be completed in '07, I guess. It was supposed to be a six-year project. They come out and on every project the City asks for minority participation, DBE, WBE, disadvantaged, all of that. So what do you do? Do you come out to the community? How come people feel they're not included? Were they included? Were they not? Did people apply or did people not apply? I'm trying to bring some clarity to the situation. If you give me all those little details, I don't know what you're talking about, and I don't think the other folks here do either. Am I correct, community? If you keep it clear we can ask the details later. We're trying to get a general 55 06/06/03 - FINANCE & TRANSPORTATION - RES. 020607 understanding of what happens on a project, who applies, who gets picked, how it happens, and what we can do in the future to have the community and minorities feel they're included on any projects that are available.

Councilwoman, since 1998 we have been out in the communities starting with briefing sessions, focus groups and smaller community meetings to determine exactly what the community's needs were as it related to this project. We knew at the outset that it was going to be a monumental project, that it would have a severe impact on the community, so we wanted to get the community's input from the very beginning. We heard about lack of minority participation, as far as history was concerned in contracting opportunities. We heard about the issue regarding unemployment in West Philadelphia. We also heard about all of the other impacts that the community anticipated the project was going to have on the community. So we put together an ambitious and very detailed, number one, community outreach plan to advise and to get the community's input about the project and to keep them involved from a 56 06/06/03 - FINANCE & TRANSPORTATION - RES. 020607 community perspective. We also put together a very aggressive monitoring component so that we would have documentation as it related to minority participation on the project. Thirdly, we also kept in mind that there were minority contractors that on a regular basis would not get the appropriate information regarding contracting opportunities. Hence, we put together a list of available minority contractors not only in West Philadelphia, but throughout the region because we wanted to make sure that those contractors were included and got the information, and would have the option to either bid as a prime, joint venture or to bid as a subcontractor. So as a result, since 1998 we have been working aggressively and arduously out in the community to make sure that three-prong approach was kept in place. Ms. Claitt has been working very diligently with initially the African American Chamber of Commerce, because there was a contractors' round table component there. The African American Chamber gets bids that go out from SEPTA on a regular basis. We have on three 57 06/06/03 - FINANCE & TRANSPORTATION - RES. 020607 occasions had networking sessions with prime contractors and minority contractors that were interested in doing business on the project to get them in a setting where there could be communication with them. We've had three of those sessions. In addition, we have taken, as Ms. Claitt said earlier, over 1,000 applications. Now we're moving to the job training side.

1,000 applications for what kinds of jobs?

For persons who were interested in training on the project.

For job training?

Madam President, before we go into the training part, the bid packages that you're awarding, close to a hundred million dollars for one contract, prime minority, we have a few that could joint venture to do this, but they haven't been given the opportunity. They wrote letters to SEPTA and they were ignored. But in addition, those packages are so large, it's going to find difficulty for a minority firm to bid as a prime, unless we go on the national 58 06/06/03 - FINANCE & TRANSPORTATION - RES. 020607 route. I can get some national contractors from across the country to come in here and bid on it, but we're talking about local prime contractors. If we're interested in getting local prime contractors to participate on these projects, we're going to bundle these packages, bundle them to a point where they're not so large, but somehow figure it out that they can included, either joint venture or protege. But having smaller packages so that minorities can actually come in as primes. That's why we don't have many prime contractors in the City. That's one reason.

Mr. Macklin, I'd like to take the opportunity to, first of all, ask a question -- or make a statement. To the degree that letters have come in to SEPTA, and there's an assertion that they have been ignored, if you could get them to send me copies of those letters, because we specifically in the bid package that's still out where the bids have come in, we just haven't awarded, we specifically delayed that bid because we were given the alert that maybe there was a possibility that there were some minorities considering joint venturing. So we 59 06/06/03 - FINANCE & TRANSPORTATION - RES. 020607 delayed that bid by weeks -- actually, twice, by weeks.

We're talking about construction managers being able to deal with the whole project. Construction managers, even joint ventures have construction managers.

Well, the construction manager for Market Elevated was named and has been named for two years. So that's not one of the opportunities for people to bid on currently. The items we're talking about now would have been guideway, which was just awarded. And then there's the station project that is to be awarded. But there is no opportunity for a construction manager because that construction manager has already been named and is functioning.

So every contract that you're awarding now does not have a construction manager piece to it?

If you're talking about a general contractor for something like a station, they would have a general contractor. But there is one big construction manager for the Market Elevated Project; therefore, any unsolicited proposals for 60 06/06/03 - FINANCE & TRANSPORTATION - RES. 020607 construction management would not have been entertained. So if that's the letter you're talking about --

No. No. Who is that?

Jacobs Wordrew (ph).

No, that's not the one I'm talking about.

That is the construction manager, and that is the construction manager for all of Market Elevated. So there is no opportunity for there to be a second construction manager for Market Elevated.

Let the Chair also note that Councilman Cohen is well represented. Howard Rye is here. He was here at our last meeting. He's assigned to the project and works very well in the area of community and minority participation.

Excuse me. PKF.

PKF is a construction contractor. They are not a construction management company. They are a construction company themselves.

Are you aware that we do 61 06/06/03 - FINANCE & TRANSPORTATION - RES. 020607 have some construction management companies who are black and minorities in the City of Philadelphia?

Yes.

Were they given an opportunity two years ago to participate?

When the bids were sent out for that particular contract, yes. They were added to the bid list and they were also added on resource lists for opportunities as subconsultants.

Can you supply that list to this Committee, please?

Certainly. That's not a problem.

Thank you. Ms. Jones, you were talking about three sessions that the African American Chamber applied for and that 1,000 applications -- let me let you straighten that out.

Yes. The three networking sessions were for prime and minority contractors to hear about the Market Street Project for subsequent contracts. And that would have included the guideway and the stations contracts. So that was the purpose of those sessions, so that contractors 62 06/06/03 - FINANCE & TRANSPORTATION - RES. 020607 that were interested in doing work could get the information, have an opportunity to meet SEPTA staff that were involved, and to just in an informal setting get information about those two contracts. So that was an effort that we wanted to do to extend to the community to let contractors, subs and primes know that we were interested in diversifying the project as much as possible. The other part of it is a job training component. We heard very clearly from the community that there was a need for those that lived in the area, in the project area, and specific Zip codes to have the ability to work on the project. And we felt that in order to do that, that it would be helpful not to just be able to work on that project, but to get skills to be able to take to the Market Street Project, but in addition, any other construction project that was going on in the region. And our dollars and funding could not be used specifically for job training. It had to be direct transportation related. So working along with Senator Anthony Hardy Williams, who at the time was a SEPTA board member, he was able to identify resources for funding for approximately a hundred 63 06/06/03 - FINANCE & TRANSPORTATION - RES. 020607 applicants from the area that were interested in the project. Now, over a period of time we had been taking applications and had a database of over 1,000 applicants that were interested in job training. With our consultants, we culled that list over a period of time, sending letters to determine if people were still interested, following-up with phone calls. At one point that number was down to a little less than 600. After we had the training providers identified -- let me go back and say that Senator Williams identified diversified apprentice program as the training provider for his resources. We were able to find another training provider, TOP/WIN, to do construction skills training. So we had two providers. Those dollars were from an independent source, Philadelphia Work Force Development Corporation. So we had two different tracks here; one for the apprenticeship training, the other for construction skills training. Currently, after we culled the list, contacted people over another two or three months, the number was reduced to approximately 187 people 64 06/06/03 - FINANCE & TRANSPORTATION - RES. 020607 that were interested. From that 187 there was actual interest by people, going into the TOP/WIN 4 training program. 5 Now, with either of those training 6 providers, there was testing that was required and a 7 screening component that was implemented as a part 8 of the project. So there were 11 that are actually 9 now in the class at TOP/WIN, and approximately 62 10 that are in the training program at DAP. It is 11 anticipated that both training providers will be finished their training at the end of June.

And what will they be able to do? What will they be training for again?

TOP/WIN trains in construction skills; plumbing, carpentry, electrical, cement, all of the construction skills. That's exactly what TOP/WIN trains -- that's the training that TOP/WIN provides so that an applicant is able to work on a project, going from the training, after graduating and getting a certificate, working directly on the project. DAP, Diversified Apprenticeship Programs, trains applicants for the apprenticeship 65 06/06/03 - FINANCE & TRANSPORTATION - RES. 020607 test to be able to get into the construction trades.

So between the two, we're talking about 78 people who are now involved in training?

That's correct. Our original commitment five years ago was for 100 applicants to receive training on the Market Street Elevated Reconstruction Project, so we're very close to our goal.

We do have people who want to respond.

Dr. McGregor.

Councilwoman Blackwell, thank you for asking the questions related to the numbers. The community also thinks that these numbers don't communicate, number one, the attempts to get people into the pipeline or attempts to secure communication. So we're going to do a heads up on the audit by saying anecdotal information will not be allowed, to tell us three people or 11 people or so much was done and meetings were done in the past. We would like real information which we consider, yes, your successes. The 11 people, the 40 people, the 78 people. But we would like to know 66 06/06/03 - FINANCE & TRANSPORTATION - RES. 020607 the total number that those people come from. We want denominator data. We would also like to know if, in fact, you make attempts with communications. We've done this in our marketing subcommittee. We want to know the number of pieces of paper that hit the street. Not the number of people who showed up. Not the number of coupons redeemed, but the number of pieces of paper. At that point, we will know how much was put to get that final person at the table. We would then like to make recommendations on best practices and things that don't need to be done again. We cannot do that with anecdotal data. We need to have real facts. With regards to the payment for such information and audit. I am mindful that SEPTA says they have no money to monitor their behavior or their practices beyond what they're doing, so my time is donated from my own family funds. We're not asking for the City to provide services or funds. We will volunteer. But doesn't it seem strange that the amount of money that comes into this community requires us to pull from our own resources, even to get information? The numbers on this project, the 67 06/06/03 - FINANCE & TRANSPORTATION - RES. 020607 behavior on this project, does not make sense. The response from our community relations, subcontractors, is underfunded. And we would like to have it begin with real information, especially for the jobs, more importantly for the marketing. No more anecdotal information. Councilwoman, you have my address and phone number for participation with this. It can start this afternoon.

Thank you very much. Is there anyone else from the community who would like to testify? Thank you. Please identify yourself. MR. BEAL. My name is Ron Beal, B-E-A-L. I'm the committee person in the 34th Ward, 36th Division, at 63rd and Market. I'm very familiar with Frances Jones, Jim Baker and Ms. Claitt. I've had several meetings myself which they attended. At these meetings we discussed the program and your application process. Now, you said you could not find applicants who were willing to participate in your program. Now, that's false. And we already know 68 06/06/03 - FINANCE & TRANSPORTATION - RES. 020607 that. Then you asked me at the meeting on April 10th, to give you some applicants who were interested, which I mailed that to your office at 53rd and Chestnut. I haven't got a response ever since. Then I spoke to Ms. Claitt here. And you said to me -- a particular person, Tony Lilly. I said, we had a discussion about him. And I said, isn't he supposed to be getting paid $9 an hour? Do you remember that? And you said, Ms. Claitt, yes, he is supposed to get paid. We had a hundred witnesses at the meeting. His family called me every since we came to Jannie Blackwell's meeting. I spoke to you -- and I forget the other person's name. You said, oh, yeah, we're taking good care of him. I just recently spoke to Tony Lilly, and he's told me that basically you haven't done anything for him. That concerns me.

In terms of the $9 an hour, that pertains to the on-the-job training. If I recall correctly, Mr. Lilly is currently participating in the DAP program. He's going through that training program. Once he's completed 69 06/06/03 - FINANCE & TRANSPORTATION - RES. 020607 that program, then he's eligible to participate in the Access to Jobs program, which would pay the $9-an-hour stipend.

That's not what you said at the meeting. We have witnesses on that. You didn't say that at the meeting. You said he's supposed to be getting paid now.

Not while he was in training, sir. I'm sorry.

I'm only going by what you said.

Mr. Beal, we were always clear that the training program, there was no 15 stipend available for the training program. The $9 is only available once you start to work on the program. And if there was some misunderstanding, we apologize for that. But there's no stipend associated with job training.

Okay. Now, in order for him to start work --

He has to complete the training program, which will not be complete until the end of the month.

And then get into the union, 70 06/06/03 - FINANCE & TRANSPORTATION - RES. 020607 correct?

If he's going through the DAP training, only the DAP training, DAP's training is to provide assistance so that you can take the apprenticeship test. That's what the DAP training is for. The TOP/WIN training, Tradeswomen of purpose/Women in Non-Traditional Work, provides training in the construction skills to go directly to work on the project.

That's when you're working for free?

There's no stipend for the job training. The stipend is when you're actually working on the project.

Okay. Now, you told me that once he completes the DAP program -- this is what you're saying now -- then he'll get paid. Is there a fee for doing this?

If he works on the project. He does not automatically --

Well, how does he work on the project? Who hires him?

He does not automatically 71 06/06/03 - FINANCE & TRANSPORTATION - RES. 020607 get paid just because he completes the DAP training. Once he completes the DAP training, there is a transitions process that is occurring with the training providers, both DAP and TOP/WIN, where those persons that are interested in working on a project will transition from the training on to working on to the project.

That's not what you told me before. Okay. That's fine. So now, you do need -- what is it -- $500 to get into the union?

I have no idea what the entrance to union is. We are not the conduit for the unions. The conduit for the unions for the DAP graduates is through the DAP program. We have no 16 input, and we're not the conduit. Let me just be real clear. The conduit to get into the unions for those graduates through the DAP is through DAP.

I also spoke to you about an apprentice loan program. Do you remember that?

I have no knowledge of an apprenticeship loan program.

In which SEPTA would provide the loan -- you don't remember anything about that either? 72 06/06/03 - FINANCE & TRANSPORTATION - RES. 020607

Absolutely not. We never talked about a loan program because we don't have a loan program at SEPTA. And if there was some misunderstanding on your part, again, I apologize for that. But we've never made any mention of any loan programs at any meetings or any dialog about that.

Do you remember telling me also that no one in the community wanted to work? Do you remember saying that? Because we have a witness here. Do you remember that?

I don't recall using those specific words. But if you have a point, I'd like you to make it. Because we're not going into an interrogation.

My point is, where is the list of applicants that I gave you -- well, that I sent to your office at 53rd the Chestnut? Where is that list?

That list is at 53rd and Chestnut, because we have funding through DAP for -- through Senator Williams' office for the class that is in place now. We are trying to plan for a new class. We cannot start a new class for the DAP 73 06/06/03 - FINANCE & TRANSPORTATION - RES. 020607 training or for any training until those two classes that are in progress have been completed. They will not completed until the end of June.

How long are those classes?

The DAP training has been approximately to weeks. TOP/WIN is probably 9 eight to 12. TOP/WIN is a little bit less than the 10 DAP program because the DAP program is a little bit 11 more intense because it is preparation for test 12 taking. 13

As a Member of 14 the Commission of the PHA Board, PHA provides 15 minimum wage to employees who are in job training, 16 but it's because they have a couple of million dollars put aside for the training and payment schedule. So maybe that's part of the issue. Because PHA also has a diversified apprentice program, but it's all built into their whole funding stream.

Perhaps their dollars, the dollars that PHA gets maybe through the Office of Housing and Community Development or other funding stream dollars can be used for job training. 74 06/06/03 - FINANCE & TRANSPORTATION - RES. 020607 However, we've been very clear since the outset that our dollars cannot used for job training, which was the reason why Senator Williams so generously identified resources to enable us to have training. But he was very clear that the training provider was going to be DAP for us.

I have other issues. Are we just staying with this issue? My issues are more communal, not business.

If we're dealing with minority participation and jobs, you can ask your question. That's the issue we're dealing with. Then after that we will conclude with other issues. We have one business owner we want to call on to read a statement. Are there any other questions with regard to minority participation and SEPTA jobs? Come right up.

Good morning. My name is Horace Clouden, C-L-O-U-D-E-N. I'm one of the applicants that was contacted by TOP/WIN and by DAP. With my background, I feel that I'm already qualified to just test out in these programs. So I had offered -- well, I had asked the 75 06/06/03 - FINANCE & TRANSPORTATION - RES. 020607 person that contacted me from TOP/WIN, could I test out in any of these programs. Because it didn't make sense -- this was money coming out of my pocket. It would possibly cost me around $50 a week to attend these programs. Now, if you're talking 7 weeks, we're talking about $600 out of my pocket to 8 attend a program that I already know that I can test 9 out in. So they said I couldn't test out. So in my 10 best interest, it was better for me to say, well, I 11 can't attend the TOP/WIN program. 12 Now, when it came to the DAP program, since the only thing that was, was to prepare me to take the union test, I feel that I could test out in that as well. So I went to DAP and I test out in their test. Now, I went and took a union test. Now, basically, the union test is a basic aptitude test. So I don't know why you have to go through these 12 to 16 weeks of training, over-training somebody to take a basic aptitude test. Back to the TOP/WIN. I'm just jumping back and forth. The lady said she could not guarantee a job working on the site. So I don't know where you got that from, where if you attend the TOP/WIN program, you complete it, you will get a 76 06/06/03 - FINANCE & TRANSPORTATION - RES. 020607 job on the site. I flat out asked her. Because I would be willing to go through the program if I knew there was a job waiting for me. She said, there is no job waiting for you. We cannot guarantee you. Back to the point about the stipend. There was a meeting that I attended and heard someone say that they would be paying a stipend of maybe $8 or $9 dollars an hour. And then I asked them about the stipend when TOP/WIN called. And they said no again. There is no stipend. I mean, I was in this thing from day one and being baited and switched the whole time through. The last time I was here at the last meeting, I didn't have my facts together or whatever. But they were stringing us along. No one told us maybe until two years later that you had to be a member of the union to get on this job site. I mean, nobody really said that. So here you're going through the motions -- and I'm not exaggerating -- at least two years hoping and praying you're going to get a job. Then they drop the bomb on you one day. Well, you need to be in the union to work on this. So then you go to take the union test, a basic aptitude test that they do not show you your 77 06/06/03 - FINANCE & TRANSPORTATION - RES. 020607 answers. They do not show you where you make your mistakes. So here again it's picking and choosing who they want. And that's all I got to say.

Thank you very much. (Applause.)

We thank Ms. Jetty Newkirk, and we note that the Council voted for her unanimously yesterday to continue to be a member of the SEPTA Board. So all of you know when you see her, that's Jetty Newkirk. We thank you for your commitment. Is there anyone else who would like to testify with regard to jobs? Come right up. Anyone else? We're talking about jobs now. After that, we will deal with other issues and then we'll close. Job issues? Mr. English, come forward. After that we will, again, spend a few minutes on the other issues, and then we'll close. Thank you. 78 06/06/03 - FINANCE & TRANSPORTATION - RES. 020607

My name is Cliff English. At the last meeting, Michael Nutter said that he identified, it was over 200 card-carrying union members that had applied for it. And he said, how come none of them had been hired. That was just something I just would like to hear the answer on that. Because they said at this time they would give them the reason for why none of the 200 qualified people that are already union members, minorities in the neighborhood, hadn't been hired. Because that had me on the edge of my seat, and I didn't get an answer for that. The training and all was fine, but I just didn't understand why the people that are qualified already with cards and unions still didn't get hired?

Now, I will tell you -- I don't remember that specific one. But I will tell you that the individuals have to be hired by the contractors or subcontractors. So that's a relationship between that potential employee and that business. So that's not one that we can then say, now contractor PKF, et cetera -- whoever it might be -- you must now hire these 200 people. Those 200 people have to apply to those companies, 79 06/06/03 - FINANCE & TRANSPORTATION - RES. 020607 those corporations and seek employment directly with those individuals.

That's what Nutter had said, how come you all would have no influence whatsoever over them hiring some people from the community, that was all, if they were the ones that were qualified. I did hear him say before that the contractors had the discretion of hiring who they want. We were expecting you all to come up with something, some kind of plan where you're going to be hiring some people in the community, especially since we already identified there was people that was qualified. That's all I have to say on that work-related issue. Thank you.

I think that is one of the issues. The Mayor signed two Bills, and one of them deals with monitoring contracts to make sure that there is minority inclusion and neighborhood inclusion. And the other one deals with an Executive Order on inclusion in the contracts. Am I right? What's the Executive Order call for, Mr. Macklin?

The Executive Order calls 80 06/06/03 - FINANCE & TRANSPORTATION - RES. 020607 for --

That whole issue of -- that's a very, very important issue. Because when Lucien amended 17-500 and we created $650 million to go through our community, we were fine until the Richmond decision where it was knocked down. And then the courts won't allow you to pick who you want and determine who works. Companies are allowed to hire who they want. Emergency Contractors Program. That's right. So the Mayor -- there are two Bills; one deals with Emergency Contractors, and the other deals with monitoring. So things should get better with that inclusion, but we're at the beginning of that process. That's major. As you say, as long as we don't have to have neighborhoods included and companies contract the work out, it doesn't mean we have to included it in again. Excellent point, Mr. English.

Councilwoman, if I may. In terms of the employment and the monitoring and ensuring that the minorities and females and residents are working on the project, we are -- we have recently been in contact with the 81 06/06/03 - FINANCE & TRANSPORTATION - RES. 020607 Office of Federal Contract Compliance, who will be working closely with us to monitor these contractors. First, they will be reviewing the contracts for every contractor that's on board, from 2002 to present. At that given time, they will do a thorough review of each contractor, their practices in hiring, their terminations. They will be reviewing closely the resources that the contractors have sought to find qualified minorities and women to participate on the project. In that review, any contract they find to be in violation of the requirement for minority employment, they will be required to enter into a conciliatory agreement. If that fails, then they would be required to enter into -- a descent decree will be placed upon them. And following that, continued violation would result in debarment of any contractor that's not in compliance of the EEO goals for this project.

Who did you say was doing that?

The Office of Federal Contract Compliance Program, the OFCCP. They are 82 06/06/03 - FINANCE & TRANSPORTATION - RES. 020607 the governing authority from the federal government in enforcing the EEO goals for federally funded projects.

What we have to do as a community -- and many of you know part of the problem is -- and the Mayor's legislation is supposed to help with that -- in African American contractors, there's the whole issue of insurance, training and getting these -- a lot of these requests for proposals are such that we're unable to complete them. We don't know how to fill out a lot of these. We don't have money for bonding. We don't have insurance money. Those are many areas that we're dealing with ourselves. I know, for example, I've always tried to make our community, West Philadelphia and Southwest, a pilot for all programs. We've tried through the life of NTI and before, when we announced West Philadelphia was on a move to try to do what we could. I've even had one of the major minority CMs, contract managers, in our City try to hire our people. But we find out that part of the problem is, unless that person is willing to set up a whole other system so we can pay our people every 83 06/06/03 - FINANCE & TRANSPORTATION - RES. 020607 week, we're still stuck. And unless that company is willing to do the paperwork for the small minority company or for the individuals he or she hires, you still have problems. We have a lot of issues that we have to work out so that we can get through this maze. I mean, we know historically we have not been included in things, so we don't know how to do these things, and we don't have the money. We can't do the bonding. We don't know how to fill out all the papers. We don't know how to make it straight so that we can get paid every week. And so we have to use those who generally are in our community from the top who are willing to do those services. That's what we've been trying to do, frankly, in my office. We talk to developers and other contract managers, or developers who are willing to tell their contract managers to try to work it out so we can keep minority inclusion, even if they have to keep the paperwork and pay folks every week. But it's a difficult issue. And the only way we can get it straightened out is if we have meetings like this and we talk about it and find a way to include more people and work together. 84 06/06/03 - FINANCE & TRANSPORTATION - RES. 020607 I asked about this the other day, and I found out -- I was told that in this project, at the very top, a lot of minorities did not apply. I was surprised. But as I think about it, we don't have the capacity, ability, the money to apply. Sometimes we're fighting for contracts we can't get because we're not prepared at the top to bid on them. Then we're not included, and we wonder why. But we haven't been made able to participate in a full way. In a full way. We haven't been made full partners in the process so we know how to participate. So there's a lot of issues that we as a community have to deal with. It seems to me that we're going to have to deal with like-minded people. A few minorities who at the top have the wherewithal to do it, but be willing to work together. Not fight one another, because it just won't work. You can't fight people and ask them to work with you too and pay for you too. It won't happen. But if we work together in a cooperative manner, deal with some of the construction managers and some major developers who are willing to work with us, some African-Americans and some not, who are willing to work with us, maybe 85 06/06/03 - FINANCE & TRANSPORTATION - RES. 020607 we can move forward with the Mayor's Bills that he just signed to get full inclusion. I've been trying to deal with this since they knocked this Bill out. I remember I was here when they passed -- as you know I've been here forever. All my adult life, I'd like to say. But I've been here since January 3rd, 1976. When we built over Billy Penn's hat, when Lou and John Street did the Rouse Building. When they passed 17-500. When people were just getting contracts. I was here when the Richmond decision knocked it down and knocked us back to where we started from.

I've been thinking and thinking and thinking, since we're more neighborhood development in our area than any place else, you know, what we can do to help one another. But we've got to form coalitions, whether they be formal or informal, with people who can train us, teach us, and we've got to be willing to work together to get over the hump, even if it's unofficial. Some of these developers who are willing to pay people weekly, they don't have to do it, but they want to work in our area, so we kind of work out unofficial -- we make unofficial agreements 86 06/06/03 - FINANCE & TRANSPORTATION - RES. 020607 where we have to, to get over the hump too. So what we have to do is try to do what works, because sometimes we're fighting over laws that are bigger than all of us in this room. They're not even local. We're fighting over historical practices that have excluded us since we've come into America. So I think we have to realize the difference and try to work together to move forward as a community. That's my two cents. )

Thank you. Now, if it's acceptable, we'll go back. We need to call on our architect here. We also will ask -- please come up. You can testify. I'm going to ask also 61st Street Barbecue, Beverly Bell, you'll be next. Thank you.

My name is William Hamlin. I'd like to clarify the fact that I'm not an advertiser myself. I'm an architect. I have a master degrees in architecture from the University of Pennsylvania.

I stand corrected. 87 06/06/03 - FINANCE & TRANSPORTATION - RES. 020607

I was the designer of -- initially out on 52nd Street, the lead designer, which generated the largest number of jobs in modern Philadelphia history. And I'm the designer of Edison High School, which is the only major design commission every given to a black architectural firm, which is Walter Livingston's contract. What I find is that for professionals on this project, we have been pretty much eliminated for every contract, major contract, from Philadelphia. When I left Philadelphia where we did Edison High School, when I've come back all the major firms or the firms in Philadelphia have all gone into remission, and they're almost terminal. We've not been included in any of these contracts. We'd like to know what professional contracts have yet to be given on this project so that we can participate in them. If you give out $2 billion worth of contracts and we don't get one percent of it, then we're dead. And we have no future as a professional class in the City of Philadelphia on the Southeastern Region. We as a people cannot allow the few, the best and the brightest of us to be wiped clean from 88 06/06/03 - FINANCE & TRANSPORTATION - RES. 020607 the slate as a result of not being included in any of these contracts, which are federal contracts, and state and City contracts, the only contracts that are generally available to minorities in participation. We are the ones that help build the relationships with construction workers, because generally we're the ones that give out the managing contracts. If none of them come to us, then we can no longer build a working class in our community. Mr. Macklin talked about attempts and procedures and things that contractors can say they did do to mean that they tried to meet the goals and guidelines. My question is, what percentage of the contracts did we get? Is SEPTA trying to go for a gold medal participation award in terms of its level playing field requirements? If they'd level playing field requirements and they got the gold medal, was 40 percent participation and the dollar amount is for the contracts? In the impact area, what percentage of the $567 million did we get in the contracts? 326 million per person per job. If we have only one electrical trainee on 89 06/06/03 - FINANCE & TRANSPORTATION - RES. 020607 that job, why is there no one else on that job? This is the opportunity for my community that I grew up in, that I went through school, from elementary through graduate school, this is the opportunity that our community has. This is the one chance that we're going to get to save ourselves from virtual elimination. 5 of the young men are now functionally illiterate in math. They cannot pass the participation requirements to get into the unions. And the unions traditionally do not bring them aboard. 85 percent of the cars coming up to these construction sites are from outside of Philadelphia. If we're going to invest almost $2 billion dollars in a reconstruction and major projects in Philadelphia, and 15 percent of the people live in Philadelphia, and less than 10 percent of the people, or 5 percent of the people are union members, if you do the math, our return on investment is criminally small. We cannot survive as a people when we're making less than $13,000 a year and giving out the majority of the work to 90 06/06/03 - FINANCE & TRANSPORTATION - RES. 020607 people who live outside the City at a rate of three to five times what we make inside the City. If we do not get the training right now, our community is falling to the ground already. When I came back to Philadelphia, I'd have gave up my career to work in my community because I have lost my father and brother because they had no legitimate means of income. And they were succumbed to the drug trade and died. Without training, without jobs in our community, we're going to have excessive rates of death, and our community is going to crumble.

Any participant that does anything in our community must realize that our community is crying for help and we must address that, not just as a business concern, but out of concern as human beings on this planet. That is all I can say. )

Thank you very much. Ms. Beverly Bell.

Hello. My name is Beverly Bell, and I'm the owner of 61st Street Barbecue Grille, a family run take-out restaurant. My life 91 06/06/03 - FINANCE & TRANSPORTATION - RES. 020607 savings, loans, family financial and physical support helped build this business. Prior to SEPTA starting construction, my business was increasing. I expanded my business by purchasing new equipment and also invested in signs to advertise this expansion. SEPTA's construction interfered with customers and deliveries having access to my store. My customers could no longer park near or in the surrounding areas of the restaurant. Traffic was also blocked, which further prevented customers from gaining access to the restaurant. In addition, deliveries to the business also experienced difficulty. I could no longer maintain my business because of the substantial loss in customers. During SEPTA's construction, the fan outside the building was dented when a construction truck backed up into it. Also, the sidewalk alongside of the building and in front of the building has been cracked through the massive weight of the trucks. As a result of SEPTA's construction, my business was forced to close. I would like to know what SEPTA plans to do to assist me in gaining 92 06/06/03 - FINANCE & TRANSPORTATION - RES. 020607 my business back and repairing the damages. Thank you. (Applause.)

Thank you very much, Ms. Bell. We will make a copy of your testimony available to SEPTA so that they can review it. Is there anyone else who wants to testify? (No response.)

What I think we need to do now, if it is acceptable by the majority of the group, is consider all the issues we have on the table. We've already talked about lighting. We talked about parking lots. Someone else suggested 57nd and Ludlow, someone from my staff. We talked about the shuttle service and are happy to talk about that 31 being back on before "Welcome America." We talked about cleaning up the area, and that we'll follow-up on that at our next meeting. 93 06/06/03 - FINANCE & TRANSPORTATION - RES. 020607 The business loss fund, I have to follow-up with the Congressman and the US senators. The Parking Authority did agree for no 5 tickets. And we talked about those areas, again, on parking where we can begin now, like 49th, 56th. 52nd is still working. 59th Street, we can use when available, and 45th Street, they want a formal proposal. We've been talking about minority participation, and I hope out of this will come a process where we can work together better. We've also talked about maintaining contact on all other issues that involve the rehabilitation of the area, like trees, curbs and sidewalks, et cetera, et cetera. So what I would like to do now, if we may, is to decide when and where we have a follow-up meeting so that we can conclude the other issues that have not been resolved. So we can follow-up on cleaning and any other issues we need to discuss at that time. Now, would you all like to meet -- today is already the 6th. Would you all like to meet maybe two weeks from now? Again, we've got to 94 06/06/03 - FINANCE & TRANSPORTATION - RES. 020607 consider when everybody is in town and when they're out of town. Maybe the week of the 15th or the week of the 20th. If next Friday is the 13th, then that means the following Monday would be the 16th. The following Monday would be the 23rd. So what about maybe the 16th to the 18th?

Councilwoman, are you talking about a community meeting?

We're talking about an evening meeting as per your request. I'll ask the community, where would you like it to be and what time? Is 6:00 too early? What about 6:00? And where can we meet? Would you like us to contact White Rock? Since Reverend Barnes is such an integral part of this, why don't we meet at 6014 Market at Reverend Barnes' church at 6:00 on -- what's that Wednesday, the 18th maybe? How is that for you?

Councilwoman, can we go back and get back to you on this to coordinate the schedule with our consultants and all of the staff people? Would that be permissible?

That would be fine with us. 95 06/06/03 - FINANCE & TRANSPORTATION - RES. 020607 Reverend Barnes, can we assign you, Mr. English, Ms. McGregor -- if we get in touch with you, can you network to let people know? We will try to make it the week of the 18th. If that's a problem, of course then we will make it when we can, or the following week to follow-up. Pastor Barnes.

Any day other than a Wednesday night.

The pastor says any day other than a Wednesday night. It's fine with me. Why don't we do a Tuesday or a Thursday, then we don't -- it's summertime -- we don't kind of interfere with everybody's weekend during the summer. So the 17th or the 19th.

The 17th or 19th? So we'll get back to you on the date.

At 6:00 at Pastor Barnes' church at 6014 Market. Then we will get in touch with some representatives from the community and we can pass the word. Let me ask my lawyer, for the record, do we need to continue this to a date certain? What we will do is we will adjourn 96 06/06/03 - FINANCE & TRANSPORTATION - RES. 020607 subject to the call of the Chair, which means we'll have to re-advertise. So if we don't adjourn to a date certain, then we will have to re-advertise, which means we have to know about days in 6 advance, if we don't do to a date certain. Which is 7 fine. We're going to meet in between then anyway. 8 So we will recess our hearing subject to 9 the call of the Chair, and we will be in touch with 10 you about the community meeting, hopefully on the 17th or 19th. Thank you all. I think we're doing well. (Council adjourned at 12:20 p.m.) - - - 97 ¡›î› C E R T I F I C A T I O N I HEREBY CERTIFY that the foregoing proceedings of the Council of the City of Philadelphia of June 6, 2003, were reported fully and accurately by me, and that this is a correct transcript of the same. RE: COMMITTEE ON FINANCE and TRANSPORTATION ___________________________ Lisa C. Bradley, RPR and Notary Public