civus
Hearing video

ZBA Hearing - July 15, 2020

Philadelphia Zoning Board of Adjustment (ZBA)Jul 15, 20205h 54m

building services is commercial. I'm not sure that it still doesn't because it's building

Similar wording

supplies that it still doesn't fall within an industrial type of use.

Similar wording

Wouldn't the proviso that speaks to no manufacturing address that issue?

Similar wording

I think it addresses that industrial aspect of the application. I can't say right now that I

Similar wording

necessarily agree that anything that's remaining is still not industrial which is why i would just

Similar wording

rather leave it the way it is and that's my request and we just simply eliminate that one

Similar wording

thing that we know is an industrial aspect of it that may be of concern to some of the board

Similar wording

members for a variety of reasons and we're willing to remove that i agree can i cut in

Similar wording

no what's that uh yes i think the question i think the question's been asked and answered

Similar wording

Yeah, you're all set, Ms. Wang. I'll move on. Again, I'm not trying to jam up Mr. Orphanides on the, you know, industrial commercial use.

Similar wording

Ms. Wang, can you describe for us how trucks currently access the first floor of your property?

Similar wording

Mostly it's from the front and just the truck's coming from the front of the Washington

Similar wording

and loading and leave also from the Washington Street side.

Similar wording

Okay, so at present a truck comes in off of Washington, enters into the first floor of

Similar wording

the building and then at some point turns around and goes back out the onto Washington yes most

Similar wording

of the time yes okay and you agreed that Kimball Street was too narrow for trucks to pass through

Similar wording

correct i agree okay um do you miss wang does your business use the kimball street curb cut at all

Similar wording

not a lot of time

Similar wording

okay can can you describe uh in what circumstances you do use it

Similar wording

Only since Kimball Street is a small street, it's hard to access with the truck, as you stated, but the small truck or sometimes we, you know, a small car, we can access ourselves.

Similar wording

uh remove the uh fabrication part so we don't have a lot of truck uh you know we

Similar wording

not are loading and unloading on the um the final washington

Similar wording

so so the trucks now if approved they would actually just pull up and park on washington

Similar wording

and unload or are they still going to access the property to unload

Similar wording

Sometimes we do want them to access to the property unloaded because it's easier if we have a material on the second floor, let's say cabinet, we use an elevator down if they can load inside the building or be easier for us to load it.

Similar wording

Okay. So with when a truck accesses the first floor of the property to load or unload for your showroom.

Similar wording

how would it then get back out of the building if approved because all of the parking and

Similar wording

turnaround space will now be used for residential parking i was expecting to be in from the

Similar wording

washington and out from the uh kimball street because a lot of time it's it's not our enforcement

Similar wording

because back out the uh kimball street uh it's kind of narrow but still accessible and the uh

Similar wording

but the a lot of time the parking is very close to our building and even though they leave a driveway

Similar wording

but the uh it doesn't it's not wide enough for the truck to go out so i was expecting you know

Similar wording

once this is done and the uh you know the uh driveway area can be wider than can access in and

Similar wording

out easily but not like a big big truck yeah you know the car or you know small truck they still

Similar wording

can be accessed okay but but a truck would not be able to turn around inside

Similar wording

the interior of the building on the first floor if the residential parking

Similar wording

is put in place correct yes and no the we would design if I think can be both

Similar wording

week uh david can you answer me for this part i'm not being asked the question so i mean i

Similar wording

i would i would i mean i don't i don't want to jam it no i wasn't no miss wang maybe i can maybe

Similar wording

i can direct you better um david for the board can you put back up your revised plans and just

Similar wording

show the floor plan of the first floor right here i have it up for you that way everyone can see

Similar wording

what i'm talking about right and i want miss huang to answer your the questions but but but you wish

Similar wording

you could answer them for no but i just don't know that i mean i don't want to object because

Similar wording

you were very you know considerate during my presentation and understanding but she's not

Similar wording

a truck driver she's not a traffic I don't think she's a truck driver I will

Similar wording

I will accept listening to David's objection I put it to the board she's

Similar wording

not a truck driver but she is the owner and operator of a business which has

Similar wording

all the trucks come into and out of her business and she must witness whether

Similar wording

they turn around and how they turn around I agree so I don't know if the

Similar wording

board now has in front of them the revised plans I'm not seeing it on my

Similar wording

screen i don't see them oh sorry maybe i need to share my screen again i'm sorry yeah there you go

Similar wording

is it now uh perfect thank you david sorry yes i was i was i was reprimanded before by

Similar wording

my our secretary about that i was going through emails and everybody could see it so i i thought

Similar wording

I was I thought I was still out there so okay um so miss Wang yes that's discussing the how the

Similar wording

industrial vehicles will access the property how will the customers of your business access the

Similar wording

the property when you uh are approved here you may alter the approval yes assuming that the

Similar wording

building is approved and built uh how would a customer come to your showroom come to your

Similar wording

business oh um for loading unloading material is that what you uh questioning about right

Similar wording

or or someone who wants to access your showroom anybody who's coming usually a lot of customers

Similar wording

do they park out on the street and just coming walk into the showroom they really not parking

Similar wording

to the building only time using you know uh driveway area that when we loading or unloading

Similar wording

stuff okay so so there's no commercial parking in the building as it's proposed correct

Similar wording

uh um i think the parking can be when you say commercial

Similar wording

I think the parking can be, when you say commercial, that means my understanding would be, it can be parking for residential and the commercial at the same time.

Similar wording

But when you say the big truck, it depends how big is it.

Similar wording

But if it's a small, like, you know, it's a, like a pickup truck, it can be accessed.

Similar wording

It can be commercial or residential at the same time.

Similar wording

Okay.

Similar wording

And do you also have larger trucks than pickup trucks access your property?

Similar wording

If it's very big, we're not letting in. We just usually load it outside and we bring the material out and load it outside.

Similar wording

Okay.

Similar wording

Like a big box truck, you know, we're not letting it get in. We just load it on the street, actually in front of the building.

Similar wording

Right. Okay. And how will trash be handled when you, assuming that this project is built as proposed?

Similar wording

I think the charge does it shows on the print, isn't it?

Similar wording

Handling, you mean commercial charge or the residential?

Similar wording

Both, including how would it get picked up by a trash collection truck?

Similar wording

Uh, right now it's like we have a real, uh, dumpster.

Similar wording

We, the real dumpster will, uh, when the truck comes, the real dumpster will...

Similar wording

I think the question, ma'am, is going forward, if the project were approved, where will the trash be stored and where would it get picked up, uh, by a commercial, uh, trash hauler?

Similar wording

Where, in the front of the building.

Similar wording

Washington Avenue, obviously. Yes, yes. Because that's the best way to have a

Similar wording

charge truck to access in the fund and then take it out and then dump it and then bring it back in.

Similar wording

And you will be using private trash collection? Yes. And then if you could describe on the floor

Similar wording

plan, where will the granite storage be? Mr. Orfaniti showed a lot of interior photos that

Similar wording

showed quite a bit of granite storage. I'm just wondering where those would be. You mean in the

Similar wording

future? Yes. In the future we will probably show most of them in the on the showroom area and some

Similar wording

of them will be on the second floor. Okay so how would if you had granite that was getting delivered

Similar wording

to be loaded and shown in your showroom how would that happen no in the future once we have a more

Similar wording

residential up there and then the down on the first floor commercial we more like a showroom

Similar wording

area not a lot of operating uh stuff it will be reduced reduced a lot okay if we if we consider

Similar wording

where or not will be a small pieces of granite will be picked up on the showroom yes it will

Similar wording

we're on a small piece of the cabinet or a few piece of cabinet will be picked up yes

Similar wording

it will be still and i just we just don't do that heavy not that much as much as right now

Similar wording

and how is the second floor showroom accessed by customers deliveries

Similar wording

we have a elevator and we have a stair from the showroom goes up

Similar wording

okay um where is the elevator

Similar wording

sean can i help since she can't point to she hasn't had control of the screen

Similar wording

how do we how do we want to do this i mean i don't want to do her work for you since you're

Similar wording

you can you can just show me she said that there's an elevator from the first floor to the second

Similar wording

elevator i don't see it on the plant it's right here so you would enter so here's the lobby and

Similar wording

elevator that comes here elevator lobby and then comes up to here and here's the elevator lobby

Similar wording

and then they can go into the second floor showroom here's the doors or they can enter and then the

Similar wording

stairs are you come in here i mean there's actually two stairs you can come in off the lobby over here

Similar wording

and come out here or this is where their showroom right is now and there are existing stairs right

Similar wording

now that in the interior photos where you go upstairs and then you're into it so you can

Similar wording

either stairs within their existing showroom on the ground floor to the showroom upstairs,

Similar wording

the new elevator and new stair. Actually, I think this is the existing elevator

Similar wording

that there may modify. I don't know. Jenny might be able to speak to that, but elevator and stairs

Similar wording

over here leading up to this elevator lobby and stair lobby that you can also access.

Similar wording

so two stairs and one elevator okay this is a central so this is another this may be another

Similar wording

Okay, this is a central. So this is another, this may be another different commercial unit over here, or it may be theirs as well. But there's a separated access or lobby that comes in here. And that's how also you get up to the residential units as well.

Similar wording

different

Similar wording

That feeds all the way up.

Similar wording

So all access to the elevator has to come off of that hallway from Washington Avenue?

Similar wording

Do you want me to answer that?

Similar wording

Ms. Wang?

Similar wording

Yes.

Similar wording

All access to the elevator has to come off of the Washington Avenue corridor, correct?

Similar wording

Yes. Okay. Am I hearing it correctly? Have I heard that that elevator is the elevator that

Similar wording

will be used for the residential units or no? Yes, it will be mostly used for the residential

Similar wording

unit. Is there another elevator for the residents or is that the only one?

Similar wording

that's only i think that's a two elevator in that jenny elevator but that's the only bank

Similar wording

right the two elevators yes either two elevator or one with the big one one big elevator

Similar wording

because it's it's kind of small to see on the plan that's going to handle the pedestrian traffic for

Similar wording

your showroom and the residence uh showroom will be mostly we will access inside our stairway unless

Similar wording

we sometimes we might use some uh things to you know carry from the uh uh can i just interject

Similar wording

i think some of these questions might be better addressed to the designer here that david that's

Similar wording

where i'm going next so i just wanted to make sure i got everything for ms wang yeah she's trying her

Similar wording

best to go through the plans as she understands

Similar wording

it, but there are some things that I think.

Similar wording

All right. I'll wait.

Similar wording

Okay. In that case,

Similar wording

Ms. Wang, thank you very much.

Similar wording

Those are my questions for you.

Similar wording

And Ms. Wan,

Similar wording

I would like to ask you some questions

Similar wording

if you're still on. Mr. Whalen, if I can

Similar wording

just interject. Should I, Mr. Chairman,

Similar wording

should I wait until Mr. Whalen

Similar wording

is done to go back

Similar wording

and to

Similar wording

any of these witnesses to address anything

Similar wording

raised by Mr. Whalen, or would you like that to happen as we're going?

Similar wording

Maybe as we're going. Yeah, let's do it as we're going.

Similar wording

I'll try not to take too long.

Similar wording

Ms. Wang, real quickly, just to restate,

Similar wording

most of Mr. Whalen's questions were regarding the

Similar wording

existing and the proposed industrial use, not the residential use.

Similar wording

but you were saying currently trucks drive in and they'll either turn around

Similar wording

because there's so much space and drive out nose first or they back out.

Similar wording

Correct.

Similar wording

To me, right?

Similar wording

Yes. You.

Similar wording

Oh yes.

Similar wording

Okay. And, and again, like I joked before, you know,

Similar wording

in terms of how trucks function, Mr. Whalen is correct.

Similar wording

You are the business run the business there and see trucks picking up and

Similar wording

delivering all the time, but you're not a truck driver yourself, correct? No, I don't. And is it

Similar wording

in the current design, I believe you had mentioned that trucks will either pull up to the loading to

Similar wording

the area in front and pick up or may pull in to that drive aisle that we're showing between the

Similar wording

two non-residential units to pick up, correct? Correct. And if they can't drive through,

Similar wording

let's say the truck is too big to navigate down Kimball because you're

Similar wording

gonna know basically how big of a truck can get out and if they can't turn

Similar wording

around is it possible that they might need to back out onto Washington yes

Similar wording

okay and you when you've been on Washington you see other businesses where

Similar wording

vehicles drive in nose first and back out of the curb cuts rather than coming

Similar wording

out those first you see them back out onto washington as well i see a lot of them we

Similar wording

we're in a similar business and a lot of them doing the same thing or sometimes we just back

Similar wording

it into the building and load and leave and back but do they back out that sometimes right many

Similar wording

times yes okay um in terms of how that works um i know i have the little citizens app because i

Similar wording

I live in the neighborhood, I live a couple, just a couple blocks from you and I get alerts

Similar wording

when there's an accident or somebody's jumping on somebody or something.

Similar wording

I don't see any vehicle accidents down on Washington Avenue come up much of it at all.

Similar wording

Have you seen any accidents with vehicles backing out, you know, construction type

Similar wording

vehicles, delivery vehicles, trucks with building supplies if they need to back out onto Washington?

Similar wording

Have you seen any accidents?

Similar wording

I don't, I don't see any.

Similar wording

Okay.

Similar wording

And then one thing was a question, this will be my last question.

Similar wording

Mr. Whelan had asked you about the ability to use the residential parking spaces for the non-residential use.

Similar wording

Mr. Whelan had asked you about the ability to use

Similar wording

And I just wanted, you gave your answer that you thought that they could be used for both.

Similar wording

If you understood that you could not, that technically by the code those spaces are dedicated to the residential use,

Similar wording

understand then you would then trucks would not be able to park their trucks

Similar wording

would not be able to use them to turn around that doesn't impact your

Similar wording

business or your decision to proceed with this development project as it

Similar wording

presently stands correct I just wanted to make sure she understood that moving

Similar wording

forward and again I just want to be clear you're we've shown where the trash

Similar wording

is stored I'm circling it on the drawing right now there's trash room on each

Similar wording

floor above and again you'll either have a trash truck pull up in front of the building or pull

Similar wording

into the building a little bit and then the dumpsters brought out is that the plan as opposed

Similar wording

to a truck actually driving all the way in yes that's what we're expecting to do okay so the

Similar wording

dumpsters will be kept indoors until the night of before whatever i don't know how many days you're

Similar wording

going to have pickup they're not even going to put them out they're going to stay inside the

Similar wording

building and they'll come in. Okay. Yeah, they're going to stay. And thank you for bringing that up

Similar wording

because I thought when she said trash collection from in front. Right. He was talking about the

Similar wording

vehicle. The dumpsters themselves will remain inside. They'll come inside, retrieve them,

Similar wording

and take them back outside. Thanks for clearing that up. They won't be put outside for pickup

Similar wording

on the sidewalk. They won't be stored in general on the sidewalk. The only time the dumpsters should

Similar wording

be on the sidewalk will be when they're pulled across from the inside of the building to the

Similar wording