COUNCIL OF THE CITY OF PHILADELPHIA PUBLIC HEARING AND PUBLIC MEETING BEFORE COUNCIL COMMITTEE ON LABOR & CIVIL SERVICE - - - Room 400, City Hall Philadelphia, Pennsylvania Tuesday, November 17, 1998 1:20 p.m. - - - BILL NO. 960598 - Amending the retirement system ordinance approved December 3, 1956 and the retirement system ordinance approved April 22, 1987, as amended. . . RESOLUTION NO. 980154 - Authorizing City Council Committee on Civil Service to conduct hearings and investigations into the diversity policies within the ongoing reorganization of the City of Philadelphia's Department of Personnel and into the effects these policies have on the City's workforce and its image. PRESENT: COUNCILMAN RICHARD T. MARIANO, Chair COUNCILWOMAN MARIAN B. TASCO COUNCILWOMAN AUGUSTA A. CLARK COUNCILWOMAN JOAN L. KRAJEWSKI COUNCILWOMAN ANNA CIBOTTA VERNA COUNCILMAN ANGEL L. ORTIZ - - - VINCENT VARALLO ASSOCIATES, INC. Registered Professional Reporters Eleven Penn Center, Suite 600 Philadelphia, PA 19103 (215) 561-2220 2 11/17/98 COMMITTEE ON LABOR AND CIVIL SERVICE I N D E X Res. 980154 Alison Richardson . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 Mary Miller Turner. . . . . . . . . . . . . . 53 7 Mary Ann Cooper . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 68 Long-term City Employee 8 9 John Crapper, Chairperson . . . . . . . . . . 77 Association of City Managers and Professional 10 Employees 11 Linda Seyda . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 86 Personnel Director for the City of Philadelphia Kevin Vaughan, Executive Director . . . . . . 123 Philadelphia Commission on Human Relations 3 11/17/98 LABOR & CIVIL SERVICE - Pub. Meeting - Bill 960598 P R O C E E D I N G S
What I'm going to do here first is I -- I'm going to -- I had a meeting for a public hearing. We'll have the meeting now for Bill No. 960598, okay? So I would like to have a public meeting for Bill No. 8 960598. I will read that bill. Bill No. 960598, amending the retirement system ordinance approved December 3, 1956 and the retirement system ordinance approved April 22, 1987, as amended, by redefining average final compensation for certain employees in positions which cannot be represented by a union by revising the base compensation upon which the retirement benefits shall be computed. Now, we already had that public hearing; we're going to go right into the public meeting.
Mr. Chairman, I move that Bill No. 960598 be moved out of committee with a favorable recommendation and a request for a suspension of the rules so that it can be read in the next session of City Council. (Duly seconded.) 4 11/17/98 LABOR & CIVIL SERVICE - Pub. Meeting - Bill 960598
It has been moved and seconded. We'll take the vote now, okay? I'll vote yes. Any nays? The ayes have it. That will close the public meeting for 960598. - - - 5 11/17/98 LABOR & CIVIL SERVICE - Pub. Hearing - Res. 980154
Now we're going to go right into the Committee on Labor and Civil Service hearing for Resolution 980154. I'm Councilman Rick Mariano. I have Councilwoman Marian Tasco, I have Councilman Angel Ortiz, Councilwoman Joan Krajewski, and Councilwoman Anna Verna. The first witness will be --
Okay, Councilwoman Tasco has a statement to read first.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Do you want to read the bill first?
Okay, first let me read the resolution. Resolution No. 980154, authorizing the City Council Committee on Civil Service to conduct hearings and investigations into the diversity policies within the reorganization of the City of Philadelphia's Department of Personnel and into the effects these policies have on the City workforce and its image.
Thank you very much. 6 11/17/98 LABOR & CIVIL SERVICE - Pub. Hearing - Res. 980154 Mr. Chairman and members of the Committee on Labor and Civil Service and fellow Councilmembers, good afternoon. I introduced resolution 980154 soon after the budget hearings in March. During hearings on the City's personnel department and its reorganization, I discovered that there were several questions which troubled me. The reorganization plans and objectives troubled me because even though a prestigious firm was involved, no material dealt with how to deal with the changing and diverse workforce. I saw no 14 evidence of plans to build gender, racial and ethnic incorporation in the workplace, and I still have not seen enough to allay my original fears. In 1988, I convened a conference on the issues of what was then labeled "Workforce 2000." Unfortunately, the year 2000 problem has now become computers, and not people. But people are still at the core of this problem, and we must have a workforce that reflects the realities of this City. And we must have a personnel department that reflects the type of workforce we're striving to create. It must have a 7 11/17/98 LABOR & CIVIL SERVICE - Pub. Hearing - Res. 980154 multi-cultural face that gives us ethical proof before the various departments. Also, the personnel department must have the diversity training and the tools to keep the rest of the City departments on the right track. Furthermore, it must meet with those personnel heads periodically to fine-tune their understanding of civil service requirements and the rewards of creating a workplace that operates as a community. I find that lacking and I see no 12 process in place to deal with prejudice and harassment that many employees from many departments have described me. There are non-threatening ways to address these emotional issues. We can reinvent government all that we like, but if the parts of the government do not reinvent their interactions, we will not be as productive or as successful as we need to be in delivering services. I want to thank Linda Seyda for coming today to help us gather information on this topic so that we may conclude with a positive program to improve our overall interactions and relationships with them and across the departments. 8 11/17/98 LABOR & CIVIL SERVICE - Pub. Hearing - Res. 980154 Representatives from several departments have agreed to present some of their experiences for our edification and how we must pay more attention to the crisis of our diverse for recognition and a listening ear. I am interested in recruitment, hiring retention, promotion, and recognition of employees, and how gender, racial, and ethic awareness is displayed. I hope that you can address these issues for us, and I trust that we can reach a consensus of some programs, and I would look to the management and productivity bank to help us institute a program that will reach every employee and set a model for the rest of the City, both private and public to follow. Thank you very much.
Thank you Councilwoman. Councilman Ortiz would also like to make a statement. Councilman?
Yes. I've been trying to, for the last year, year and a half, I've been trying to get some answers as to the makeup of the personnel of the City of 9 11/17/98 LABOR & CIVIL SERVICE - Pub. Hearing - Res. 980154 Philadelphia, makeup in terms of how many minorities and individuals, by gender and race and nationality, occupy and are performing at several levels of the City of Philadelphia. We have statistics because we have a report from the Human Relations Commission that was given to us a long time ago, during the Wilson Goode administration, and we wanted to find out whether, during the last six years, the numbers of Latinos in these areas have gone down. I've asked for, specifically by position in terms of offices, not just the secretaries and the clerks, but the directors, executives, the deputies, the individuals that are in the policy-making positions in the different departments of the City of Philadelphia. I requested that during the budget hearings, and I still haven't gotten those figures. And I hope that out of this hearing, I can get a clear picture of where we're at at this time. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Thank you, Councilman. The first person I want to call is 10 11/17/98 LABOR & CIVIL SERVICE - Pub. Hearing - Res. 980154 Alison Richardson. Alison? (Alison Richardson comes forward.)
Good afternoon, members of City Council. Thank you for allowing me to present my case for promotional opportunity in the civil service series of the programmer analyst classification. Please enter for the record Exhibit A, Unfair Labor Practices, which I've given to --
Move it closer to you, real close. Not you, the mike. Pull it.
Okay. I wanted to enter for the record Exhibit A, Unfair Labor Practices; and Exhibit B, Justification for Programmer Analyst Project Leader Appointment. When I was promoted to programmer in 1989, I began doing project leader work at that time, and this is a standards manual for which I created -- which references all of electronic print for the City of Philadelphia's departments and agencies, including the processing of payroll checks, and I also did the income tax -- school 11 11/17/98 LABOR & CIVIL SERVICE - Pub. Hearing - Res. 980154 income tax optically scannable form. These projects took several years. From there, I moved into the information center, which you can see in Exhibit B.
What I attempted to do was to give you the job descriptions that I performed as a Programmer Analyst I, a Programer Analyst II, and a Programmer Analyst III. As a Programmer Analyst I, I completed the electronic print conversion from the impact printers, as I said, which included all the processing of the payroll checks, tax forms, and miscellaneous forms for the City of Philadelphia's departments and agencies.
Is it my understanding that you have an unfair labor 12 11/17/98 LABOR & CIVIL SERVICE - Pub. Hearing - Res. 980154 practice suit with the City of Philadelphia.
I'm just concerned that you're saying things on the record here that may hurt your case. I'd be real careful. I used to be a business agent for a laborers union, and if you were in my union, you wouldn't be doing this today. But, I mean, it's up to you.
If you look at the specifications, I'm using the term "unfair labor practices" because some of the things that they have done are unfair.
What is your status in terms of a complaint? Have you filed any complaint at all? 13 11/17/98 LABOR & CIVIL SERVICE - Pub. Hearing - Res. 980154
No. I only went to Councilman Nutter's office when I was doing the West Philadelphia GIS Pilot Project, and I complained because I told him I couldn't get the promotion to project leader, but then I had to go to City Planning, and I basically --
Thank you. I just wanted you to know your rights and to tell you to be real careful. Thank you, continue.
Okay. Well, if you look at Exhibit A and you see the job specifications, what they did is, they used this note from one spec to another in which some employees are allowed to use experience as substitution for educational requirements. Then they remove it. If you look further into the specs, they -- well, you don't 14 11/17/98 LABOR & CIVIL SERVICE - Pub. Hearing - Res. 980154 have that one. Here it is here. And I've highlighted it.
Can I just ask you, what is your basic complaint and who is it against?
My basic complaint is that in 1993, I was given evaluations which was basically defamation of character because I had already completed several projects, there was no 11 question about my analytical ability. And then I was notified by personnel in, three separate mailings, that I did not qualify for the promotion. And since that time, in the civil service unit, they created an exempt position which is at the project leader level and just basically disallowed me to be able to qualify by rewriting the specifications.
And who rewrote the specifications, the personnel department or the -- you work for MOCS (ph.), right?
No, the Mayor's Office Information Services. I believe it was the personnel office. 15 11/17/98 LABOR & CIVIL SERVICE - Pub. Hearing - Res. 980154 It's just that they keep changing to whatever suits them at the time. To some people they say, any combination of education and experience to be deemed necessary by personnel. But these job classifications already came under the jurisdiction of a classification, which was created by the bargaining unit 2187 and 2186, which is the programmer analyst series.
Well, there were some situations where the union, basically, I felt, did not look out for my better interests.
No, he didn't. 16 11/17/98 LABOR & CIVIL SERVICE - Pub. Hearing - Res. 980154
And who's the 6 business agent there? That's the District Council 7 47, right? 8
Okay. So 13 basically, you told the union, and did they do 14 anything? 15
Right. Well, you know, 19 I try not to complain, I try not to file 20 grievances because I feel that in the long term, 21 that would be a reflection on me for -- where a future employee (sic.) would possibly look at me say and say, you know, She's constantly filing grievances. And they wouldn't want me. So I feel like that's a double-sided sword. 17 11/17/98 LABOR & CIVIL SERVICE - Pub. Hearing - Res. 980154 But basically, in the evaluation, they made me seem like a problematic employee, which is not true. I've done several projects for the City of Philadelphia -- for instance, the reconciliation of the federal wage tax.
I completed that. The City got the refunds from the federal employees. It was very intensive, and it requires a lot of analysis, where I'm working with the main frame processor and taking the tapes and being able to decipher the information on the tapes. I've also done the personnel analysis for several years from about 1990 to about 1995. And at one point, there were errors in the mayor's operating budget. Then I was assigned that project in which -- at that point, I'm not programming; I'm auditing.
Yes, I did, at the Programmer Analyst I level, which, at that point, it waivers the four-year degree because of the experience. But they're trying to take that away 18 11/17/98 LABOR & CIVIL SERVICE - Pub. Hearing - Res. 980154 from other employees so that that bridge isn't there, and then they take the employees that didn't qualify to take the PA I exam, and they rewrite the specs.
Because you're assuming that we've all read this material, and we have not. Okay? What we need to hear from you is what you have applied for, what is your position now, what have you applied for, and why you think you have not been given the position. We need to go in some steps because we don't know --
We haven't read this, all right? We just got this so we haven't had an opportunity, all members of Council, so we really don't know what your problem is.
In the mayor's Office of Information Service? 19 11/17/98 LABOR & CIVIL SERVICE - Pub. Hearing - Res. 980154
Okay. So you were promoted to II and then promoted to III?
Then when you get to the project leader level, it's supposed to be based on training and experience and 10 percent seniority. 20 11/17/98 LABOR & CIVIL SERVICE - Pub. Hearing - Res. 980154
A project leader, a programmer analyst project leader program.
But that's on a track; you don't have to take any more exams.
They eliminated my category. There's three categories -- General, COBOL, and FORTRAN. They eliminated the General category and changed it to a programming that they're using at MOIS called "Natural." And instead of adding Natural to the categories, they 21 11/17/98 LABOR & CIVIL SERVICE - Pub. Hearing - Res. 980154 eliminated my category and, thereby, eliminated me from the promotional process.
Do you know the new category Natural? Are you familiar with the program?
Okay, so at the point where you could have qualified for project analyst --
Did they open up the process for someone else, or did no one else gain --
Yes. As a matter of fact, the examination -- I found out later that they allowed someone who had never been a program analyst to take the examination, but were so adamantly against me taking the examination. I have three separate mailings from Central Personnel saying that I could not take the examination. 22 11/17/98 LABOR & CIVIL SERVICE - Pub. Hearing - Res. 980154
Why could you not take the examination? I don't understand that.
They said I had not been programming in Natural for four years. But, see, there's some data processing requested that simply don't fall under a specific language. For instance, the electronic print, the personnel analysis, I was doing a lot of spreadsheets. At the time I had to do the budget analysis, I did the overtime analysis. There were several projects that I had completed prior to me becoming eligible for project leader. And what they did was, they made up a category --
My superiors made up a category to put on my evaluation, under "Ability to Work Within a Work Group," they gave me "improvement needed" and just basically continually disqualified me to be promoted.
Were your projects rated after the projects were completed?
I have sign-offs and I 23 11/17/98 LABOR & CIVIL SERVICE - Pub. Hearing - Res. 980154 have references from the users, which they were very satisfied. The Revenue Department, Tom Kramer, he even said we could never have completed the optically scannable tax forms without my help. And I worked diligently -- sometimes till 3, 4 o'clock in the morning to have that work prepared so I could come in, and these projects could be processed.
So when you received your performance evaluation, you were you evaluated as "improvement needed"? Was that your overall evaluation?
No, that wasn't my overall. I only got upset about the -- my overall was satisfactory. I was only upset that they made up a category of "Ability to Work Within a Work Group." How can you be --
Is that a part of the evaluation for every employee in that department or only on your evaluation? 24 11/17/98 LABOR & CIVIL SERVICE - Pub. Hearing - Res. 980154
It was only on my evaluation. And for instance, I'm now doing time accounting for the Capital Programs Office. That's a whole project. It's very intense. Sometimes Capital or Streets time accounting, they don't get the numbers balanced, and basically, I have to audit what they have done, and that's not really a part of my job function.
All of the advanced work for the programs that encompass an application.
It's a programmer analyst project leader. 25 11/17/98 LABOR & CIVIL SERVICE - Pub. Hearing - Res. 980154
Basically, it does all the advanced programming, planning, and user contact for a particular application, a computer application.
And you're doing that now without the title of project leader?
So you're performing the task, but you do not have the title, nor the salary range?
Yes. Right now, I'm doing time accounting for the Capital Programs Office as well as Streets time accounting. And when they're in error, I audit that data. And, you know, I basically give them --
Is it your claim that -- is it your claim, to put it very clearly, that you were treated differently and that a new definition for a job was created to prevent you from assuming a position?
Yes. And that new job description was "software engineer."
And you say that the 11/17/98 LABOR & CIVIL SERVICE - Pub. Hearing - Res. 980154 -- that your supervisor or the individuals -- or who treated you differently and who in essence targeted your position or you to prevent you from being promoted and getting a chance at this position? Who did that?
The evaluation is included in my exhibit that is Dr. Karl Bortnick.
And this doctor, is he the one that then had either the Personnel Department, or whoever, write a new job description that prevented you from moving forward?
That, I'm not sure of. It was more than one person. My personnel officer is Jackie Henry. It's not one person; it's a group of people. Unfortunately, we have a status quo, and it can make it very difficult. When you're not a part of status quo, you're 27 11/17/98 LABOR & CIVIL SERVICE - Pub. Hearing - Res. 980154 automatically rejected.
But your claim is that action -- discriminatory actions were taken against you to prevent you from being promoted, and that this took on the aspect of changing the job description and preventing you from taking or participating in the exam that was given at that point? Is that your claim?
Dr. Karl Bortnick and my personnel officer, Jacqueline Henry.
All right. They are the ones that, probably with others, might have been the individuals who rewrote and prevented you from moving forward?
Yes. And I would also like to note (unintelligible) I also handle all of the press activity for the elections in the primary and the general. So when press agencies want to dial into the data center, into the central computing 28 11/17/98 LABOR & CIVIL SERVICE - Pub. Hearing - Res. 980154 agency, they contact me. And for like two months, during the primary and during the general election, my work is interrupted. And then I do network work, where I'm constantly dealing with the dial-ups, the press agencies that call in. They want to be able to dial in, and I have to support that activity.
Miss Richardson, these two people, whose name you told Councilman Ortiz, say their names again for me.
I say it very loosely. Do they your evaluations, those two? Were either one of those two involved in your evaluations?
What happened was, he gave me the evaluation, and he attempted to have me sign it. And when I refused to sign it, they said we had to review it with the personnel 29 11/17/98 LABOR & CIVIL SERVICE - Pub. Hearing - Res. 980154 officer. At that point, they took me into a conference room and sort of badgered me -- not once but twice, on two occasions during my -- because the other one, they gave me "improvement needed" in analytical ability. This was right after I did the budget analysis. How could I possibly have a deficit in my analytical ability when I just reviewed the mayor's operating budget so they could get the funding for the Police Department?
When they created this new category and they said you couldn't work within that system, you didn't work with a team, right? Is that what they said?
And you wouldn't sign that, and that was a part of your evaluation. 30 11/17/98 LABOR & CIVIL SERVICE - Pub. Hearing - Res. 980154
And I wouldn't sign that. And after she badgered me for about 45 minutes, she pushed the evaluation over to me and said, You still have to sign it.
Satisfactory. How can it -- explain -- see, some of us may have never --
See, you can't be a project leader if you don't have the ability to work within the work group. They can use that to justify not giving you a promotion where you have to lead a work group. If you have a deficit in your analytical ability, how are you going to be a project leader? And then there was times when I did documentation for time posting and the documentation for the election system. I did documentation for time accounting. It's extra. They don't even count it.
Are you the only one performing these tasks, or are you in a work 31 11/17/98 LABOR & CIVIL SERVICE - Pub. Hearing - Res. 980154 group?
With capital programs, you know, I tried to talk them into having a user group because I do all of the programming myself.
And when the numbers aren't balanced, I have to go audit all the data, and I have to fix it.
So you've tried to cooperate with your department by not filing a grievance or a complaint?
Well, I have 16 years of service and I'm just thinking, you know, 20 years of service, if I want to go somewhere else, 32 11/17/98 LABOR & CIVIL SERVICE - Pub. Hearing - Res. 980154 I don't want anyone to see a record of grievances. I just want to be able to go on with my life. You know, if they're so adamant about it, then they shouldn't give me -- I told Dr. Karl Bortnick at that point, the last time, when they tried to give me the evaluation with "improvement needed" in analytical ability, I told him, At this point, I can no longer do the personnel analysis.
At the time the evaluation said "Ability to Work Within the Work Group -- improvement needed," it was Richard Gatt. 33 11/17/98 LABOR & CIVIL SERVICE - Pub. Hearing - Res. 980154
Well, what did he evaluate you on? If he -- did he play a role in the evaluation?
So this gets to be subjective, I guess. Why do you think that you were not given the opportunity to move forward?
Well, at the time I became eligible for project leader, I was the only black and the only female to be eligible for the promotion.
Not in all of MOIS. 34 11/17/98 LABOR & CIVIL SERVICE - Pub. Hearing - Res. 980154 You see, it's in my unit, in systems development.
I'm sorry. I'm a little confused. In order to become a project leader, I know it was a promotional position, but did you have to take a civil service exam for that? Or was it automatically considered a promotion, step IV?
Programmer Analyst I through Programmer Analyst III is career advancement. Once you take PA-I exam, you can advance to II and then to III.
Yes, training and experience. I have a sample at the end of Exhibit A. Programmer analyst project leader. The specification came out February 9, 1998. It is 35 11/17/98 LABOR & CIVIL SERVICE - Pub. Hearing - Res. 980154 based on training and experience. The only time that a written examination was administered was when there was a possibly that I would qualify. The upper level's project leader and programmer analyst supervisor was training based on training and experience.
So were you given the opportunity to take the test? That's what I'm asking you.
No. They developed a written examination in which -- that I feel would have been biased anyway.
And do you know how many people applied for that position?
And how many 36 11/17/98 LABOR & CIVIL SERVICE - Pub. Hearing - Res. 980154 passed?
And I would assume that somebody would have passed. And if so, if there were an opening, why would you still be doing that work?
As I was trying to point out earlier, I have been doing project leader work from the day I got picked up as a programmer. Unfortunately back then, we were at PCC. They didn't have anyone to do the electronic print programming, and the entire conversion was waiting to be done, which included the processing of the payroll checks and several other items, which, not only did I complete the conversion, I did all of the job source libraries, I completed all the forms, put all the tax forms, payroll checks, and the police administration (unintelligible) communication module as well as their printers, and basically wrapped all up in a nice, neat little package. And that was a project before I even considered being a project leader. You know, if you did want to take a look at this, I could leave this. I created the 37 11/17/98 LABOR & CIVIL SERVICE - Pub. Hearing - Res. 980154 run book, which processes all of the forms for the City of Philadelphia departments and agencies.
Just the one time. And then they changed the specifications.
Were they using the language in the department at that time, the Natural of the program?
They just started using it. They was converting from COBOL to Natural.
Most of the people who 38 11/17/98 LABOR & CIVIL SERVICE - Pub. Hearing - Res. 980154 were in systems development. But at the time, see, actually, that eligibility occurred when I was in the information center, and I was the only PA-III in the information center.
And then I went into systems development. So, see, there would be no 14 eligibility if you no longer had that unit. (Unintelligible) funny stuff with the budget. You know, you start switching things around because you want to, you know, create this other slot and so you re-spec, and then you take the money allocated in the budget for a particular position in a particular unit and then you reallocate those funds too, and then you create another unit, you create another position, and then there's no need for the eligibility.
Councilwoman Clark? 39 11/17/98 LABOR & CIVIL SERVICE - Pub. Hearing - Res. 980154
Miss Richardson, I did not hear all of your statement, but I'm now looking through this book that you passed out. I'm reading your memo dated August 21, 1995. It's the orange tab in the book, near to the back. It says -- it's a memo to Karl Bortnick from you on employee evaluation, and it's a very short memo. It says: "Karl, please reconsider the improvement needed." And then in a handwritten note is a statement: "Alison, check with Kathy and also ask for a three- to six-month reevaluation of that factor. Karl." And that handwritten note is dated 8/22, so the day after you gave him your memo, he responded to you.
Telling you to ask for a reevaluation. Then I fast-forward to the next tab, "Performance Report for Permanent Employee." And while I'm not going to read all of it, I just look at where the checks are; you have an overall superior rating, with one satisfactory and one 40 11/17/98 LABOR & CIVIL SERVICE - Pub. Hearing - Res. 980154 outstanding.
Okay, I understand that. I'm looking at this 1998 evaluation, which appears to have corrected any deficiencies that might have been the subject of the 1995 "improvement needed" performance review. Was that your assessment, that you had what -- whether it was fair or not, that you had now been evaluated by a supervisor who saw your overall performance as superior.
Now, in response to a comment that Councilwoman -- it might have been Tasco -- as to why you are in an acting position now that a test has been completed and some people have been appointed, what was your answer to why you're acting when there are people on the register who have passed the test?
The way things work over there is sometimes -- see, a general category 41 11/17/98 LABOR & CIVIL SERVICE - Pub. Hearing - Res. 980154 -- sometimes data processing requests come in and it doesn't require Natural, it doesn't require COBOL, it doesn't require FORTRAN. It's just data-processing requests. It's like having to press dial-in to our data center, and it requires various activities. And most of the programmer analysts are so focussed on a specific language --
Miss Richardson, excuse me. What you're telling me is interesting but not relevant to the question. If an exam has been given which generated an eligibility list, were all of those people placed?
And you're still acting, doing the work that they are being paid to do? Is that what your suggestion is?
You do in, an acting position, what they do under the title for the money and the resume points?
How long have you done that? 42 11/17/98 LABOR & CIVIL SERVICE - Pub. Hearing - Res. 980154
Well, if I start with the electronic printing project, I would say since about -- 8
Miss Richardson, 9 has it been two years, two weeks, two months? 10 Tell me that. 11
About four years. 13 Now, Miss Richardson, this circumstance 14 made you unhappy, did it not? 15
I went to Councilman 19 Nutter at the time when I was working on the GIS project.
Okay, now stop. You went to a politician, but what about in your chain?
Yes, I went to my union rep. 43 11/17/98 LABOR & CIVIL SERVICE - Pub. Hearing - Res. 980154
My union rep had this to say to me: You're not doing advanced work; you don't get advanced training until you do advanced work.
So your union rep did not represent you in the way that you thought you should have been.
Okay. Did you file a complaint, did you ask to have a review? Who is your boss? Do you then have a right to go to your boss's boss for a review?
Prior to having an immediate supervisor, I basically took assignments from management.
Well, whoever management is, did you tell management that I'm working out of my classification, I'm being prohibited from positions that I qualify for, and 44 11/17/98 LABOR & CIVIL SERVICE - Pub. Hearing - Res. 980154 that has the effect of costing me money? 'Cause that is the situation, isn't it?
Yes, but, you know, I felt that as I was progressing through the programmer analyst series, there's always a lot of work, and you never mind helping out do the work, even when it is over the scope of your job specification. But it wasn't until I was permitted not to continue to progress through the series that then, you know, I did write memorandums requesting the consideration.
Were you asking in your memos to have this corrected? Do you want somebody to promote you according to the work that you're doing? What were you asking for? What did you want to have done? What remedy did you see?
You were requesting anticipation of eligibility to do what?
To become a program 45 11/17/98 LABOR & CIVIL SERVICE - Pub. Hearing - Res. 980154 analyst project leader.
So you want to be promoted to the work that you're doing?
The specification just -- it just wasn't that long ago before the specification came out, but they put human services only.
So they walled you out because you worked in the wrong unit to compete for the position.
Yes. At one time, as the positions would come out -- as the position came out, it wasn't department-specific. Now, what they do is too, you know, department- specific, and since I'm not in that department, then again, I cannot compete for the promotion. 46 11/17/98 LABOR & CIVIL SERVICE - Pub. Hearing - Res. 980154
So they walled you out because you don't work in the unit from which they are selecting.
So is this a problem with no solution? You can't transfer in, they won't let you work from where you are, they won't promote you and pay you at a level that you think you're qualified for, so you are between the proverbial rock and the hard place.
Yes. I was just hoping to get years in and then maybe -- 17
Okay, you were 18 hoping to have a hearing so that maybe what? 19 Tell me what you want this process to result in. 20
Right. You don't want to be eligible; you want to be the job that you're already doing, don't you?
Yes. 47 11/17/98 LABOR & CIVIL SERVICE - Pub. Hearing - Res. 980154
She wants the title and all the perks, including the pay. You need the resume points so that you can be eligible for the next job. As long as you are acting in a position, you can't do a thing with it resume points-wise.
Can I just ask one question, if I may. How long have you been working at that category? You said four years?
You do that when assignments come up and if for some reason, I don't know if it's my skills to be able to --
It's an on-and-off thing. The electronic print, that started in 1989. I did the personnel analysis 1990 until, I believe it was, 1996 and there's documentation in there to prove it. The project down at the Police Department, that lasted for a year. So --
So that's what the project leader does? Is that the work that a project leader does? 48 11/17/98 LABOR & CIVIL SERVICE - Pub. Hearing - Res. 980154
When you can take the application and you do -- you make sure all of the work gets done without intervention of a technical superior.
Is there a position description that describes this job?
How long have you been doing that work as a project leader? You say you're doing work but you're not getting paid for it.
You can do the work, but in order to get in the programmer analyst series, you must take the programmer analyst trainee written examination on Programmer Analyst I, so regardless of whether you're doing project leader work or not, you have to progress through PA-I, PA-II, PA-III, which is --
Right. And I became eligible for project leader at the end of 1993.
'93, so five years. 49 11/17/98 LABOR & CIVIL SERVICE - Pub. Hearing - Res. 980154
The immediate supervisor because there is a programmer analyst supervisor after project leader.
And you work with other people on your team and you supervise them. But in order to become a project leader, you have to know all the systems that you're dealing with, correct?
And you know those systems 'cause you keep doing project after project after project.
So now you're saying, Well, let me just be a supervisor as opposed to the hands-on person.
The project leader is still hands-on; it's the supervisor level about project leader.
Now, at one point, they offered it to me on a temporary basis only if 50 11/17/98 LABOR & CIVIL SERVICE - Pub. Hearing - Res. 980154 I agreed to go to the prisons to help straighten out the data-processing --
Well, we know the prison story, we know the prison story.
Then I told them, You're only going to give it to me long enough to go up there to fix the problem.
And it's going to cost me the money in transportation and inconvenience. So I told 'em I didn't want a temporary appointment.
Because, it seems to me, if they ever thought that you were eligible enough to offer it to you in writing, that obviates the necessity to prove that you're eligible.
I didn't like that situation because I felt that I was already there 51 11/17/98 LABOR & CIVIL SERVICE - Pub. Hearing - Res. 980154 and --
Yeah. I have a memorandum in which I sent a memo to Lou --
Miss Richardson, I know that you're getting nervous because two or three of us are asking you questions at the same time, and we don't mean to make you nervous, but that question is a yes- or no-question.
It doesn't have to be today. Miss Richardson, if there is a writing and if you can produce it, it seems to me that you are in a substantially better position because at some point, somebody in your management chain believed that you had all of the qualifications to be a fully certified employee under that position 52 11/17/98 LABOR & CIVIL SERVICE - Pub. Hearing - Res. 980154 description and that title, right?
Stop. That's what you need to do, you need to put that material in our hands. It doesn't have to be today, but that's how you gather your evidence. And a lot of that other stuff, whether it was inconvenient, whether it cost you money is not relevant to me, it's not relevant to your qualifications to do the job. Those are working conditions, those are not qualifications, okay?
Are there any other questions for this witness? (No further questions.)
We'll follow up with you in our office with Miss Frazier.
Yes. And I'll give you a copy of the memorandum here, okay.
Thank you. 53 11/17/98 LABOR & CIVIL SERVICE - Pub. Hearing - Res. 980154
Okay, could we have Mary Miller Turner. (Mary Miller Turner comes forward.)
Yes. Good afternoon, City Council. Thank you for allowing me to come down to share with you my experience in seeking employment with the City of Philadelphia in the capacity of auditor in the controller's department. I originally applied for this position in '92, I took the test. I was told that I failed the test by 2 points. The City had a policy where we can audit the test, which I did do, and I questioned six questions which were erroneously marked incorrect. I put in an appeal within the City of Philadelphia and supported this appeal with documentation, including excerpts from a text, the copy of the text, the publication and the year it was published. After one year of trying to find out 54 11/17/98 LABOR & CIVIL SERVICE - Pub. Hearing - Res. 980154 the outcome of that appeal, I was told I was denied the appeal because the City could not find or locate the text. I was told to apply again for the position which, in fact, I did do. And roughly in July of '94, I took the civil service exam again for auditor. I passed the exam, I passed the qualifying oral exam. And my name was put on the registrar. At that time, I was told to keep myself abreast of my position on the registrar, which I did do. And I became a little apprehensive in reference to my possibilities of ever securing a position because I declined on the registrar instead of inclined. And in doing so, I sought the assistance of a Mr. Benton (ph.), an attorney, to find out my correct status on the registrar. And when the information came back to him, I had, at that time, fallen to first place, but the City had cut off their hiring because it was the end of the fiscal year. I believe it was on November 6, 1995 that I interviewed for the City of Philadelphia. And upon my entrance, I was told to fill out another application, which I did do. I 55 11/17/98 LABOR & CIVIL SERVICE - Pub. Hearing - Res. 980154 interviewed with a Mr. Wise, Mr. Scaperotto, and Mr. Tkaczuk -- I may have the names mispronounced, and I apologize. During those interviews, these individuals were more concerned with my present occupation, which was working in the capacity of a substitute teacher, freelancing, accounting, and were not really considering me for the job. They were asking me what did I have to do to become a teacher instead of considering me for the position that I was there for. And I explained to them that originally, my application fell to substitute teacher because I was also on a list with the School District of Philadelphia for a financial management position. I took the substitution because it was income, and I'm self-supporting. And I told them I did not want to become a teacher, that I was seeking the position in the controller's department. Well, roughly about the 8th or 7th or 8th of November, I received a letter telling me that I did not receive the position for the auditor and that -- I called down to personnel to 56 11/17/98 LABOR & CIVIL SERVICE - Pub. Hearing - Res. 980154 find out my current status on the list and was told that I wasn't on the list at all anymore. And apparently what Mr. Wise, Mr. Tkaczuk and Mr. Scaperotto used was is what you call a "Rule of 2" to disallow me the position as auditor for the controller's department and then removed my name subsequently from the list from any further consideration. Should I continue?
Okay. At that point, I became upset because I had been applying for this job -- waiting, actually, for this type of job, had passed the qualifications for the job, and it was just these three individuals who took away my opportunity for this job, and I thought I had been unjustly treated. So I filed a complaint with EEOC who, in turn, did not investigate my complaint. They stated that they passed the complaint over to the Pennsylvania -- excuse me, the Philadelphia Human Relations Commission. And in trying to find out their findings as to why I was denied the 57 11/17/98 LABOR & CIVIL SERVICE - Pub. Hearing - Res. 980154 position, I was told that they also did not investigate my complaint, and I was subsequently issued a right-to-sue letter from the Equal Employment Opportunities Commission. I did file a case in the Federal District Court, claiming that I was unfairly treated and had a denial of opportunities for employment with the auditor's department. The case -- let me back up. During the discovery for the case, I found out that on November 6th, they did, in fact, hire two individuals, but when they turned the registrar, or sent it back after removing my name, there was still a vacancy to be filled. At that point, I was -- I did not have an attorney, I must say. I could not afford an attorney, I didn't have a -- I was representing myself. So I knew they had a vacancy still to be filled and I had again been denied, I knew that under Title 7 of the Civil Rights Act of 1964, amended in 1991, that that was an illegal practice to deny a qualified candidate for a position and then continue to seek like candidates with the same qualifications. 58 11/17/98 LABOR & CIVIL SERVICE - Pub. Hearing - Res. 980154 So I did a thorough discovery, and I found out that -- well, they would not release to me the names of the two people who they placed on the registrar above me in the earlier part of 1995; they did not give me that information. But I also found out that Mr. Tkaczuk, who was the individual who was doing, I guess, the main decision-making here never considered me for the job. The issue here was consideration. Although on the face, it appears that he did do so by allowing me to have the interview, I was never considered, as stated he in his deposition, because he was more concerned with a notation I had put on the application when I came in on November 6th as opposed to qualifications for the job. And that notation was whether or not I had been previously terminated for a position, and I had noted yes after, filing a grievance against Mellon Bank, I was wrongfully terminated. During the interview, he did ask me about that termination, and I explained to him that it was not in the capacity of accountant, that I was working in a clerk's position. It was 59 11/17/98 LABOR & CIVIL SERVICE - Pub. Hearing - Res. 980154 a wrongful termination, and the documents submitted for this termination, the court had found to be fraudulent, but I did not successfully win the case. In his deposition, he noted that he was not concerned with my background, not even concerned with the fact that I had just finished auditing a company independently here in the Philadelphia area -- just the fact that I had been terminated. And he denied me the position or any further or future opportunities for the position as a auditor with the controller's department.
Oh, I'm sorry. I didn't state my name. My name is my name is Mary Valestine Miller Turner.
Miss Turner, this has been a traumatic experience for you, I am 60 11/17/98 LABOR & CIVIL SERVICE - Pub. Hearing - Res. 980154 sure. Did you say that you were issued a right-to-sue letter by the EEOC?
And has your case progressed? What has happened to that case?
Well, the case was dismissed. After the depositions were taken, the City said their procedure of a Rule of 2 and entered a motion to leave, which means to close the case. I was to have days to respond to 13 this motion. However, the Honorable Herbert J. 14 Hutton of the United States District Court Eastern Division closed the case on the sixth day, without my response.
So your complaint is that you are a qualified candidate for a position of auditor, and that there came a point when were the first person on the registry.
And that under the Rule of 2, they were able to go around you as the number-one person, pick somebody who was lower than you, then take your name off the list. 61 11/17/98 LABOR & CIVIL SERVICE - Pub. Hearing - Res. 980154
Well, and also too, during discovery, all other candidates that had been on that list that my name was originally on were either hired, offered the job and declined the position, with the exception of myself.
When you filed your lawsuit, what was the basis of your lawsuit, race and sex?
So what is your status now? Your case has been dismissed from federal court.
My status is I'm not working for the City of Philadelphia in the capacity of auditor. And at present, I'm working as an apprentice teacher, doing what they recommended that I do. I've had to change my career because of denial of employment in certain civil service capacities. So at present, I am working as an apprentice teacher for the Philadelphia School 62 11/17/98 LABOR & CIVIL SERVICE - Pub. Hearing - Res. 980154 District.
What would you like this committee to do? When you came here, what remedy did you seek?
Well, my first remedy would be just to look at your rules in reference to hiring individuals. I was very disappointed to find that my name was being able to -- the City was able to remove my name from the list after I had passed the written and oral portion, which were the qualifications for the job, as stated on the application that was publicized. They did not say that once my name came up on the registrar, I would be again interviewed and the possibility that I would be denied the position.
Now, let me see if I can restate your situation. You took an examination and you passed both the written and the oral.
You went on the registrar. 63 11/17/98 LABOR & CIVIL SERVICE - Pub. Hearing - Res. 980154
And they hired down to, and including, people whose scores were no higher than yours.
Well, when it got time to my list, they did hire people whose scores were higher than mine.
Okay. So then you don't have a complaint about that. Now you're saying that they hired somebody whose score was the same as yours or lower.
Okay, the same, okay. So as to those whose scores were higher, you make no complaint.
Well, no. But they were above me on the list. 64 11/17/98 LABOR & CIVIL SERVICE - Pub. Hearing - Res. 980154
Right. If they were above you on the list, we take it that their scores were higher so you raise no complaint as to them same. As to those who had the same and lower is where you feel discriminated; is that correct?
Well, no. I felt as though I was discriminated against because these three Caucasian individuals made this decision to bar me work --
But, Miss Turner, let me help you frame your situation. After those whose scores were higher than yours, there's no 15 complaint, right?
Well, no, because they just no received the position before it was offered to me, so I could not complain about that.
Right. I want to take their condition off the table now.
As to those people who had the same score as you or lower who were hired and you were not, that's where you see the discrimination being. Yes? 65 11/17/98 LABOR & CIVIL SERVICE - Pub. Hearing - Res. 980154
Well, no, because when it got down to me, there was no one lower. I was, at that time, the first on the list. And what they did was pair me with -- where they had a new testing, there was no other candidates on the list that I was originally on. So what they did do was generated another registrar and then paired me with those candidates who had the higher score and said they were more qualified than myself when, if you look at qualifications educational-wise, I had more than them in accounting and finance capacity as far as credits earned. It is true that they did have more recent continuous employment in the field of accounting, but it was true that I also had employment, recent employment in the field of accounting.
Right. You really have a tough situation, and perhaps the toughest thing is that your case has been dismissed. Are you barred from bringing your case on those same facts?
Well, I believe that it 66 11/17/98 LABOR & CIVIL SERVICE - Pub. Hearing - Res. 980154 would be yes because the Third Circuit Court of Appeals would not allow me to bring it because they would say it's untimely at this point.
Right. Well, the thing that also too I was hoping to be viewed from City Council is the rule itself. I mean, if an individual takes the exam, qualifies, passes the exam, both written and oral, which is what's publicized as the only qualifications needed for the position, it stands to reason that once that person's name -- or once they reach that person's name on the registrar, they should be offered the position. As the lady who was just here stated, that all people who were on the registrar that she was speaking of were hired also. When it comes to me --
How much weight do you give to the fact that your interviewers were concerned about your having been dismissed without possibility of rehire?
I give it a lot of weight, 67 11/17/98 LABOR & CIVIL SERVICE - Pub. Hearing - Res. 980154 and I also give it a lot of weight because during the interview, the same people who interviewed me were not the people who I had deposed. Only one individual was the person who I had deposed, and I believe that was Mr. Tkaczuk, and he had a slight handicap, which made me remember him more so than the others. The other two were large, stocky guys, and the people who I deposed, who they state was Mr. Scaperotto and Mr. Wise were not the people who interviewed me. And in my depositions, I let it be known. So it was like a switch of personnel.
I would be happy to present Council with any documents if you request.
Thank you very much for coming forth. We appreciate your testimony.
Since my Chair is having a discussion, there are a few other people we'll call before call before we call Miss Seyda so we can spend time with her. 68 11/17/98 LABOR & CIVIL SERVICE - Pub. Hearing - Res. 980154 Rusty Thompson and Mary Ann Cooper. Mary Ann Cooper, you're here? All right, you may come forward. Is Rusty here? Where is -- he, where is Rusty? Is Mr. Crapper also a part of your group?
Why don't you come forward. (Above-named individuals Comes forward.)
Thank you very much. Would you identify yourself for the record Miss Cooper.
My name is Mary Ann Cooper. I'm a City of Philadelphia employee.
Okay. I'm a long-term City employee. I have been a City of Philadelphia employee since June of 1967. Since that time, my entire performance rating was nothing less than satisfactory. All of 69 11/17/98 LABOR & CIVIL SERVICE - Pub. Hearing - Res. 980154 my supervisors' comments on my ratings have been positive. I have never been a disciplinary problem. I do not recall ever being on any sick abuse list. I report to work on time every day and have never had a problem with lateness. I started my career as a data entry level key punch operator and worked as a key punch operator for years in data entry at the Police 10 Department. During that time, I attended 11 Community College and secured an associate's 12 degree in data processing. 13 I took a promotion exam for an 14 entry-level computer operation position in 1982. 15 I was not offered a job in that field at the Police Department's operations unit. I accepted a position at the Free Library of Philadelphia, which, at that time, was just automating. I worked there as a computer peripheral equipment operator for four years in their computer unit. In 1986, I took a promotional exam for computer console operator. I was offered a position at what is now known as "MOIS," which is the Mayor's Office of Information Services. The 70 11/17/98 LABOR & CIVIL SERVICE - Pub. Hearing - Res. 980154 position at MOIS specified a temporary detail at the Police Department's operations unit. I accepted. Around 1987, MOIS pulled it's entire operational staff out of the Police Department. I made an agreement with the supervisors at the Police Department to stay and become a permanent Police Department employee, with the understanding that I would be promoted to programmer. I also agreed to work temporary out of class as a computer operator due to severe staffing problems the Police Department was experiencing with their operations unit. I also agreed to help train the entire new computer operations staff, which included a white male who started working in 1987. I worked out of class in the operations unit for two years as a computer operator. In 1989, I moved over to the applications unit and began working at a full performance level as a programmer. After having worked as a programmer for five years, with no 24 complaints about my work, and at the urging of supervisor, I took and passed a test for 71 11/17/98 LABOR & CIVIL SERVICE - Pub. Hearing - Res. 980154 Programmer Analyst II in 1994. I ranked number one both citywide and interdepartmental. I was never promoted. The reason given was that I was not qualified. I filed a complaint in November of 1994 with the Human Relations Commission, charging race and sex discrimination. I based my complaint on two separate incidents. One was special treatment given to a white male who had less time working for the City than myself but was allowed to resign from the Police Department's applications unit. This white male then began working for a private company, and after having worked for this company for several months, had his resignation rescinded, had a leave of absence request submitted, had this leave of absence request backdated, which allowed him to take the test for Programmer Analyst I without losing any benefits and without going through any probationary period. The second white male named in my complaint was a male that I helped train as a computer operator in 1987. This white male, who worked in Operations, was promoted from computer 72 11/17/98 LABOR & CIVIL SERVICE - Pub. Hearing - Res. 980154 operator to a programmer trainee in September of 1989. He was then promoted to a programmer in January of 1990. He then was promoted to a programmer analyst trainee, actually, in August of 1990. He then was promoted to a Programmer Analyst II in August of 1991. He then was promoted to a Programmer Analyst III in September of 1992.
This white male, during the time of his promotions, was detailed to the operations unit, working out of class as a computer operator on a rotating shift. Around July of 1995, I took a promotional exam for Programmer Analyst I. I ranked number 8 citywide and 1 within my department on a promotional list. I again was denied promotion and told I was not qualified. I made an attempt to secure a promotion out of my department but I was told by a commanding officer that disparaging comments made by my supervisor prevented any chance of getting promoted out of my department. After filing complaint to the Human Relations Commission, I began to experience difficulty on my job. I began to complain of not 73 11/17/98 LABOR & CIVIL SERVICE - Pub. Hearing - Res. 980154 being given sufficient documentation to complete my assignments. I began to be given insufficient time to complete my assignments. I began to be left out of staff meetings. I began to be given assignments with conflicting instructions. I also complained to my supervisor that my programs were being sabotaged. Someone was deleting my programs from the operating system. I filed a second complaint with the Human Relations Commission, charging retaliation. I file suit in Federal Court on my first complaint of race and sex discrimination in 1997. My supervisors made false allegations that I failed to turn in assignments, that the assignments that I turned in were shoddy, with glaring mistakes, and that the assignments which I completed were past their due dates and took too long to complete. As a result of these inaccurate statements, a decision not if my favor was rendered. In conclusion, I have been denied a promotion, and I have been forced to work in a hostile working environment. I would like to see changes made in the City of Philadelphia 74 11/17/98 LABOR & CIVIL SERVICE - Pub. Hearing - Res. 980154 promotional policy. I would also like an investigation into my complaint of false statements made by my supervisors, which directly resulted in my lawsuit being dismissed. I can only open hope that this Council will address the issue of City officials with their own agenda, disallowing promotional opportunities for long-term departmental employees.
I have included the memo from Personnel on my ranking on Programmer Analyst II, my ranking on Programmer Analyst I, the last four years of my performance ratings, and the interdepartmental numbers where you can see there was a vacancy in my department the month before I was eligible for my first promotion in 1990. Lastly, I have my associate's degree from the Community College in data-processing. Thank you.
I'm sorry. You indicated that you took the test, and you came out number on the test?
Yes. 75 11/17/98 LABOR & CIVIL SERVICE - Pub. Hearing - Res. 980154
Don't they usually tell you before you take the test whether you'd qualify or not?
And they didn't do that with you because you, in fact, had all of the necessary qualifications --
And then you were told that you did not qualify. Did they give you any reason?
My supervisor said that I wasn't qualified for that particular job.
It was your supervisor that told you that you -- 76 11/17/98 LABOR & CIVIL SERVICE - Pub. Hearing - Res. 980154
No, I didn't go to Personnel. From Personnel, they told me I was qualified, and they also -- I did go to one interview with the DA's office when I was on the Programmer Analyst II list, and the DA's office said to me, Why isn't your own department taking you? I kind of felt that because my own department did not select me, that it sort of was -- it sort of hurt me going in to other interviews. And the DA's office asked me, You're just trying to force your department to pick you. And I said to them, If you will select me, I will work for you. And I was not selected.
Any other questions for this witness? (No further questions for this witness.)
Thank you very much. We appreciate your coming forth with your 77 11/17/98 LABOR & CIVIL SERVICE - Pub. Hearing - Res. 980154 testimony.
Good afternoon. State your name and title for this record.
I'm John Crapper, C-R-A-P-P-E-R. I am the Chairperson for the Association of City Managers and Professional Employees. I come to you this afternoon, Councilpeoples, on behalf of a few areas of concern of the "non-reps," as we are known in the City of Philadelphia, those individuals who are not represented by a collective bargaining unit but who are the mainstay and the guts and the power of the City administration who does the work. One is that the personnel system in the City of Philadelphia, as far as pay appeal, must be adjusted so that individuals will be paid accordingly to their skills and their knowledge. Secondly, I think it's absolutely absurd that the Personnel Department of this city 78 11/17/98 LABOR & CIVIL SERVICE - Pub. Hearing - Res. 980154 would abolish the training and development unit of the personnel division. If there's anything that we need, our employees supervisors and managers need constant training and development. Why would we abolish the training and development unit of the Personnel Department? Thirdly, out-sourcing. This Personnel Department just recently this year have out-sourced the writing and the oral testing of the police test. We have qualified individuals in the Personnel Department who can write those tests and can give oral testing. We have no reason to out-source that. We need to try to utilize those individuals within the City government who are qualified to do these things and save the city some money. The Anderson consultants that were hired to re-engineer the Personnel Department, they have made some improvements, but these improvements are no more than surface improvements, something that could have been done in-house, in-house. I believe, and so do the non-reps of the City of Philadelphia believe that these improvements that they have made have been 79 11/17/98 LABOR & CIVIL SERVICE - Pub. Hearing - Res. 980154 an injuring factor to the Personnel Department. We are not aware of the civil service changes that are being passed down from the Personnel Department and the Civil Service Commission each and every month. And while I'm on the subject, Madame Chairlady and members, let me address the recruitment, the recruitment of personnel by the Personnel Department. We believe and we think it's only fair that the Central Personnel Department recruit those individuals who are qualified, we believe that. And that means giving a test. There are quite a few individuals who have received T&E's; we don't oppose that, but we do believe in a written test, and if necessary, an oral test. And finally, let me speak a little on diversity. The City of Philadelphia personnel, from the testimony that was given by the Personnel Director, Miss Linda Seyda, I believe, indicated that about 46 percent were Afro-American, 49 percent were Caucasian, and about 6 percent was Latino or Asian. If that is the case, then that should be reflected; the population of this city 80 11/17/98 LABOR & CIVIL SERVICE - Pub. Hearing - Res. 980154 should be reflected in the hiring practices of this city. If we do not test and hire within the City government and within the City confines, then we are missing tax dollars, is that not right? We want individuals to be hired here so that they can spend and give back to this economy. I believe that the discrimination policies of this Central Personnel Department need to be addressed by this committee and by the City Council as a whole. If you need the assistance of myself or anyone in my organizations, we'll be readily at your call to do whatever we possibly can to rectify the situations we have. Thank you so very much.
Mr. Crapper, what is your title again, your affiliation?
The Chairperson of the Association of City Managers and Professional Employees.
I have a question. 81 11/17/98 LABOR & CIVIL SERVICE - Pub. Hearing - Res. 980154
You said that the Anderson consultants were an injury to the Department. Could you elaborate on that a little more.
I believe that the results, by looking at the reorganization or re-engineering of the Central Personnel Department, have not been very fruitful. Recently, I hired an individual for one of my units, the photo lab of the Department of Records. And I told this individual that he would have to take the test, and as we heard before, he would have to qualify to be one of the two to be hired, in the top two. And that individual was not one of those. He went to Central Personnel and asked them -- well, let me backtrack. First, when the individual came on board and we knew that we was going to have a test, I asked my personnel officer of the Records Department to talk to Personnel, to have them give us a test. They said they would, but they didn't. 82 11/17/98 LABOR & CIVIL SERVICE - Pub. Hearing - Res. 980154 What they did was give a police photographer's test, and then instructed the Records Department to pull the person off of that list. A police photographer is an entirely situation from a regular City photographer. When this individual went over to find out why he was not even called for the test, Central Personnel claimed they lost his original application and sent his original notification to his previous address. I believe that what we have there, since the reorganization or the "re-engineering," as they call it of Central Personnel, I believe that this could not have been happening if we had used the individuals who were in-house, the personnel who is in-house. The employees that are presently in that department could have straightened that department out if they had the cooperation of the management and the administration.
Are you saying that the existing personnel in the central -- the employees in the Central Personnel Department were not involved in the reorganization of the 83 11/17/98 LABOR & CIVIL SERVICE - Pub. Hearing - Res. 980154 Department?
Give me some of your experience, because the percentages of Latinos and so on are not 6 percent within the City government but when you say that they should reflect it and the Personnel Department is preventing that from happening, what do you want exactly by that?
I wouldn't exactly say that, Councilman, that they are preventing it from happening; I'm saying that they might not be 84 11/17/98 LABOR & CIVIL SERVICE - Pub. Hearing - Res. 980154 encouraging, they might not be encouraging individuals to come forward. I was here recently as a Councilmatic hearing, one of the committees, and the Police Commissioner was here presenting to you, at that time I think, a proposition, an ordinance to recruit outside of the city.
This committee. Now, what I'm saying is, if we can recruit outside, why can't we recruit inside? Why can't we put our efforts in here? That's what I'm looking to see. I don't see any banners or any flyers in the City of Philadelphia advertising jobs for City employees.
And the efforts are not within the City government, they're not putting forward the programs or the outreach to be able to do that.
That's correct. And if I'm wrong, someone show me. I don't see any advertisement in the City of Philadelphia, in the proper of City of 85 11/17/98 LABOR & CIVIL SERVICE - Pub. Hearing - Res. 980154 Philadelphia, advertising. If you do not go to the Personnel Department to receive an application, then you do not know what jobs are available and what the qualifications are.
Mr. Crapper, I don't want to say you're wrong, but I happen to be a late-night cable television person, and they do have a channel that they do do this. I mean, that's something, and I mean, it should be on channels 3, 6, and 10, you're correct.
I mean, the people need to be able to find better things than that, and I agree with you on that. Anyone else have any other questions for this witness? (No further questions for this witness.)
Thank you so very much for your help and your cooperation. 86 11/17/98 LABOR & CIVIL SERVICE - Pub. Hearing - Res. 980154
Is there anyone else who wants to testify before we get to the personnel director? (No response.)
My name is Linda Seyda, and I am the Personnel Director for the City of Philadelphia. Good afternoon, members of the Labor and Civil Service Committee. I am pleased to be here with you this afternoon to talk with you about the City's civil service hiring process. As you may know, in July of 1996, the Personnel Department initiated a multi-year effort to enhance the City's processes for hiring and promoting civil service employees. This effort's goal is to improve the City's hiring process so that City managers can hire diverse, well-qualified employees in a more timely manner, thereby improving the City's ability to deliver quality services to the public. 87 11/17/98 LABOR & CIVIL SERVICE - Pub. Hearing - Res. 980154 The discussions on improving the hiring process began in the summer of 1996 and included representatives from senior management in the City as well as human resource specialists throughout the government and also most of the staff within the Personnel Department from the senior staff down to the lower-level support staff. Work to date has focussed primarily on thee areas: instituting a citywide workforce planning process, restructuring processes within the Department, and improving the timeliness and quality of hiring, through improvements in how jobs are defined and how candidate are recruited and assessed for City positions. The full effect of the project will be realized throughout the remainder of this administration and beyond the year 2,000. Even at this stage, however, we have already made progress toward realizing our goals of improving the timeliness, quality, and consistency of the Personnel Department's services. Most notably, we are pleased that we have reduced the time required to recruit, hire, and promote civil service employees. The average 88 11/17/98 LABOR & CIVIL SERVICE - Pub. Hearing - Res. 980154 number of days between announcement of an exam and completion of an eligible list has dropped 48 percent since fiscal year '97, an 83-day or almost 3-month reduction. Our goal for the end of this fiscal year is to reach an average of 75 days. This reduction was the result of the initiatives of the hiring improvement project, especially the citywide workforce planning process. Of most importance to this project is the workforce planning process in which departments, on an annual basis, submit their lists or requests for positions for review and pre-approval by both the Personnel Department and the Budget Office. The Personnel Department enters into service agreements with each department in agreeing to provide requested services by specific target dates. By enabling staff to plan and be accountable for specific outcomes, workforce planning has, in fact, improved the timeliness and quality of Personnel services and has aligned the hiring activities more closely with the City's budget process. Altogether, these initiatives assist our client agencies in filling their 89 11/17/98 LABOR & CIVIL SERVICE - Pub. Hearing - Res. 980154 vacancies in a more timely manner, and therefore enables the Department to continue to provide their critical services to the citizens of Philadelphia. In addition, I am pleased to report that in October, a local human resource professionals group recognized the Personnel Department's achievements by declaring the city an honor-mention winner in the Greater Philadelphia Human Resource Department of the Year award. In order to support and sustain the improvements in the City's hiring process --
Excuse me, Miss Seyda, we all have written copies of your testimony. This is about exciting as dental surgery to us -- to me.
Not that you're not an exciting person, but we have to get to some of the meat and potatoes of this.
You've submitted your testimony, everyone has it, it's here in the record. Let me ask you a couple questions, then 90 11/17/98 LABOR & CIVIL SERVICE - Pub. Hearing - Res. 980154 we'll get the other people.
Okay. I read your testimony when we got it. Your testimony talks about the recruitment initiatives which your department is undertaking. Can you tell this committee on how the initiatives will both address the diversity issues in the workforce and the need to attract qualified applicants for the City of Philadelphia -- people that live in the city, that's what we're looking at here for here.
What we have done as part of this process -- and I think it's important to note that over a period of time, the Personnel Department lost a number of employees. And, in fact, we were at one time a department of approximately 125 to 130 people. Now we're down to a department of about 100 people. So as result, we basically lost the resources that had previously been devoted to recruitment. And so what we are doing now is to reestablish a recruitment initiative and a formal recruitment team within the Department. And that group -- and granted, it's 91 11/17/98 LABOR & CIVIL SERVICE - Pub. Hearing - Res. 980154 just a couple of people, but we have set up an advisory committee with representatives from the departments. They're currently in the process of doing a needs analysis. We have representation on that committee from the Human Relations Commission, a deputy director from the Human Relations Commission sits on that committee. And it is our goal and objective to do stronger targeted recruitment which will better address the diversity needs of the City workforce, and also to establish relationships with those organizations in the City, in the community, and in our community, and at the local colleges and universities, particularly those universities that truly represent the demographics of our community, to establish targeted recruitment programs that will be effective both in enhancing diversity and also in recruiting qualified candidates. And we think that they're equally important objectives.
You spoke a little bit about that in your opening statement. Can you give me some background information on the eligibility lists? You talked about how you tried 92 11/17/98 LABOR & CIVIL SERVICE - Pub. Hearing - Res. 980154 to shave down the turnaround times. Can you tell me how you do that? Because a lot of the problems by the previous people that testified, the lists seemed to have went run on forever. I mean, the one was here from '89, and she on the list from '93, five years, and she still didn't get the job she wanted. Without getting into a specific case, are you turning them lists faster around?
What we're trying to do is to reduce, you know, reduce the time from when am exam is announced and when a list is actually --
There are some figures in my testimony. And we have reduced the turnaround time so it's now down to, I believe I said 91 days, which is a reduction from what it had been a couple years ago, of 174 days. 93 11/17/98 LABOR & CIVIL SERVICE - Pub. Hearing - Res. 980154 And we're doing that by working more closely with the departments and with the Budget Bureau so that we're not announcing exams for classes that the budget -- where the Budget Bureau is not going to approve openings or where the Department doesn't truly need candidates. And also what we are trying to do is to look at those job classifications which are most critical and where it is important to have eligible lists on the books all the time. A good example of that would be social workers, for example, uniform classes, entry-level classes. So that when departments have a need to fill a position, there will be eligible lists there for them to use and this will not have to wait to get individuals referred to them to fill their vacancies.
Okay. My last question. On of your testimony, and this isn't -- I didn't let you read that far, but you talked about a customer service program as the initial point of contact to inquiries from employees and applicants concerning the City's personnel system. 94 11/17/98 LABOR & CIVIL SERVICE - Pub. Hearing - Res. 980154 How will this program work in the future? And how will this help myself and the other members of Council in advising our constituents about jobs that may or may not be available?
For a couple of reasons -- some are internal reasons and some are not -- we felt it was important to establish one central point within the Department to address customer services needs. And so we've set up on the -- not just on the concourse level, where we've also had access, but also on the 16th floor of the Municipal Services Building, a customer service center where employees are being trained in how to handle a multitude of requests so that when candidates or employees have questions, it can become like a one-stop shopping point for them, so that they are not continually referred from one person to another person to somebody else. We still have a good bit of work to do in this area because employees have to be cross-trained so that they know how all the functions work within the Department. 95 11/17/98 LABOR & CIVIL SERVICE - Pub. Hearing - Res. 980154 But what we would like to see is once finding the department where an employee can come in and say I'm looking for a transfer from Department A to Department B, how do I go about doing that, how do I get information about me to appointing authorities in other departments? Or I'm interested in becoming a social worker with the City of Philadelphia or any number of other job titles, when can I expect that that examination will be announced? Or I'm on the eligible list for a certain job, what is my ranking at the present time, when can I anticipate that there might be openings? Granted, it's going to take time for all of our people to come up to speed so that they have all the information and they're thoroughly trained. And also, we have a need for some technology enhancements in order to make this work. But we think it's going to be, you know, a really good service for our employees. Also, I would like to point out to Council, 'cause I think it's important -- will be of interest to you, is that access to information 96 11/17/98 LABOR & CIVIL SERVICE - Pub. Hearing - Res. 980154 about jobs in the City and about City services are available on the Internet. They're available on the City's intranet, they're available in the Personnel Department, and information about jobs that are open is available in every branch library of the City of Philadelphia. So that as your constituents or members of the public raise questions about how do I know how to find out about what jobs are open, you can refer to them to any branch in the Free Library system, and they are now maintaining that information.
Thank you. Anyone else have questions for Miss Seyda? Councilwoman Tasco, Councilwoman Verna, then Councilman Ortiz.
I wanted to ask you, how would you have helped that young lady, Allison Richardson? You heard her frustration. What is the role of our personnel department to help people like that who feel so frustrated about what's happening to them in their department? 97 11/17/98 LABOR & CIVIL SERVICE - Pub. Hearing - Res. 980154 You and I have talked about this, and the kind of things that she outlined are the kinds of concerns that have been raised to me over and over again, about the manipulation in the department to prevent people from moving forward.
Well, first of all, I mean, I have to say that I am not familiar with her particular situation.
However, employees do have the option to have somebody from our department come and take a look at their position. From her testimony, and I don't know -- I certainly do not have all the facts, and we will look at it later, but the employee has an option to have their job looked at and evaluated. And if they think that they're working at a higher level, we are obligated take a look at what they're doing and to say Yes, we think you are; or, No, we think you're not. Granted, resources are limited and we can't do that for 10,000 employees on a weekly basis, but it is our role and it's really our Charter-mandated role to provide services to the 98 11/17/98 LABOR & CIVIL SERVICE - Pub. Hearing - Res. 980154 departments and also to the City's workforce. And our obligation extends to the City's workforce just like it does to the City departments. And quite frankly, sometimes there are conflicting objectives. Sometimes what a department's looking for or asks for is not what the employee wants, and there are going to be times when a situation cannot be resolved in a way that everybody's happy with. But that is our Charter-mandated responsibility, to represent the interests of both the departments and the employees and to ensure that the City's hiring practices are merit-based and not discriminatory.
But it's sort of like the Law Department represents us and also represents the mayor. What side are they going to come down on? They usually come down on the side of the mayor. Where does the employee get fairness in this process? If her situation is a classic example of employees who feel that -- and you and I have talked about this in my office, about how specifications are changed so that only certain 99 11/17/98 LABOR & CIVIL SERVICE - Pub. Hearing - Res. 980154 employees can qualify for a position. Or, in her case, she does all the work but wherever she tries to moved forward, she gets an unsatisfactory rating after all of these years of working very hard and is given all these projects. Suddenly she's unqualified. I mean, where is the fairness for her? And who represents her and who protects her in this?
Again, I'm not familiar with the particulars of this particular case of this particular individual, but in terms of how --
What system do you have in your department that could help employees address a situation like that?
The process of establishing positions throughout the City government and establishing classes in our department and in other departments is a public process. And for any position or class to be established, we have -- we're required to go through and take a look at what the duties and responsibilities are, to take a look at what the requirements are of that position, to go to a 100 11/17/98 LABOR & CIVIL SERVICE - Pub. Hearing - Res. 980154 public hearing before the Civil Service Commission for not just the department, but the employee, to have an opportunity to be heard. And as far as the Personnel Department itself is concerned, that is why, because it's our department. With the current reorganization, we have made a decision that we will go to the Federal Office of Personnel Management to have them take a look at those jobs because we think since it's our house, that we need to have somebody from the outside, who everybody perceives as being neutral, to take a look at the -- look at our jobs and the selection instrument that we'll ultimately end up using.
I just want to add to one of the questions that you had from a previous witness. She said she took the civil service exam, came out number one on the list, and then was told that she did not qualify. I couldn't understand. Could you explain to me how that happens? I thought you were disqualified before taking the test if you didn't have all the necessary requirements. 101 11/17/98 LABOR & CIVIL SERVICE - Pub. Hearing - Res. 980154
Well, again, I'm not familiar with the specifics of this particular situation. There could be, I mean, any number of explanations. The department may not really have had a vacancy, the department may have told her that when it was not the case.
But I gather that her department did have a vacancy, she was then interviewed by the District Attorney's office, and that's what I didn't quite understand. If she wasn't qualified, how would these people all be interviewing her? And they wanted to know why her employer did not take her since they have an opening. I want to ask you, if that individual is number one on the list and, say, there are three opening that exist this that category throughout the City --
-- the number and number 2 candidates would be interviewed? Or is it the top three candidates?
It is the top two. Under the Philadelphia Home Rule Charter, we operate 102 11/17/98 LABOR & CIVIL SERVICE - Pub. Hearing - Res. 980154 under Rule 2.
So if she was not considered for the first opening, then she and number 3 would have to be interviewed?
Well, I think we ought to look into that. I think that that doesn't sound very good to me. You said that hiring improvements started in 1996?
Can you tell us how many in your department at that time were white, African-American, Hispanic, and Asian; and compare that to what we have today?
Currently, in the Personnel Department, our staff is 50 percent white, 47 percent African-American, and 2 percent Latino. If you go back to --
'96. 103 11/17/98 LABOR & CIVIL SERVICE - Pub. Hearing - Res. 980154
'96. . . I have it here. I will pull it out for you. What I have here is readily available.
Now, this is prior to '96, the figures that you're giving us?
In 1992, the Personnel Department workforce was 54 percent white, 39 percent African-American, and 4 percent Hispanic. It is now 50 percent white, 46.8 percent African-American, and 2 percent Hispanic.
Miss Seyda, do we have a document that you're reading from?
I don't know that you do but I'm more than happy to provide it to you.
Miss Seyda, can you tell us, how many grievances have been filed 104 11/17/98 LABOR & CIVIL SERVICE - Pub. Hearing - Res. 980154 since this new process went into effect?
Thank you. You said that from '92 to '96, the Hispanic number had gone down percent, from to 2?
So now it's 50 percent of the employees, right? It has gone down to 2 percent?
In the Personnel Department, that's correct, because that's basically -- that's two people.
Yeah, it's not a lot. I mean, we're not saying that there are many Latinos in the Personnel Department or in any other department across the City, but you're acquainted with the Human Relations investigation and the hearings that we held back in, I think it 105 11/17/98 LABOR & CIVIL SERVICE - Pub. Hearing - Res. 980154 was, '89?
I -- yes, I am familiar with them. I did not participate in those hearings but, yes, I know of those hearings.
Well, the charge, in essence, from those hearings to the mayor and the Personnel Department was to see how we can increase the number of Latinos within the overall departments of the City of Philadelphia. And there were a whole series of recommendations that were made at that point. And could you detail to me whether the Personnel Department has transmitted those recommendations to every department, and are those recommendations being applied and have they been instituted?
As I recall, one of the recommendations in that report was to establish and ensure that there was -- that there is an affirmative action officer in each department who has the responsibility for working -- for developing --
We have the Human Relations Commissioner here. He can -- he might 106 11/17/98 LABOR & CIVIL SERVICE - Pub. Hearing - Res. 980154 be able to help you in terms of what the Human Relations report says.
Right. One of the recommendations within that report was that each City department should appoint an affirmative action officer at a management level, and that that individual should coordinate programs, seminars, and periodic EEO reviews. And that is the case; each City department does have an EEO officer who plays that role. And on a semiannual basis, the Personnel Department from each department, which they give us an update as to the status of their plans. And this data then provides for us specific demographic information on Latinos as well as on other groups.
And have you -- and I agree that they have been established.
But the key issue here is whether it has been effective and whether they have actually fulfilled their functions of increasing Latino representation in all those departments. 107 11/17/98 LABOR & CIVIL SERVICE - Pub. Hearing - Res. 980154 And given the situation I read from your report, which I got today, Miss Seyda -- and I thought we were going to get this report much earlier, we've asked for the report during the budget hearings, and I know the Rendell administration really is really tardy in giving in to certain requests that we ask for committees, but I would have liked to have had this before the hearing so I could have looked at it much more in-depth and reviewed it and have my staff with me go over it. And right now I'm just going over it myself. But given the nature of it, we have Hispanics and officials and administrators making up 0 percent of the -- at that level, although I believe that maybe you're not including Andy Perez, right? I think that's at least a slight of 1 percent. I don't know how he got there. Professionals are at 1.47 percent. Technicians, 2.4 person. And this is not by department, but overall.
Protective services is at 2.18. And protective services, 4.15. 108 11/17/98 LABOR & CIVIL SERVICE - Pub. Hearing - Res. 980154 And anyway, we make up a total of 2.86. Do you know what the percentage of Latinos was at the end of the Wilson Goode administration?
Was it higher or lower than 2.86? I just want to know whether we have made any improvement in the last six years or retrogressed back to the level of the early '90s. Isn't this a part of what the Human Relations report said, that you needed to have that data in order to keep information available to see whether we were progressing or not?
Since -- looking at information from 1990, at that time, the percentage of Latinos in the City workforce was 2.08 percent, and it has been increasing slightly every year since then. Granted, these have not been large increases, but they're going in the right direction.
Yeah, from 2.08 to 2.86. (Laughter.) 109 11/17/98 LABOR & CIVIL SERVICE - Pub. Hearing - Res. 980154
Very quickly, I would imagine. I mean, if the tortoise and the hare were here, you know, I don't know how fast we would be advancing. What plans do we have, now that we know that we're not being very successful, at implementing the Human Relations Report of 1989? What plans do we have to recruit and retain Latino employees at the professional, at the -- at the above-clerical and janitorial services level? Although those are needed and we do want those types of jobs. But I do believe that policies in departments change when we have people at the policy level that are looking at the discrepancies.
Well, part of our objective in reemphasizing a recruitment program for the City and doing it on a centralized basis is to enhance our targeted recruitment programs for not just African-Americans, but for Latinos and other people as well so that the City workforce, over a period of time, does truly represent the demographics of our community. 110 11/17/98 LABOR & CIVIL SERVICE - Pub. Hearing - Res. 980154 It's important that our recruitment programs be targeted, that we go to the local universities to --
Let me stop you, let me stop you. From now till the end of the year, what is your goal in terms of elevating the numbers of Latinos across the board in the City of Philadelphia? And I was surprised because one of the things that the Rendell administration claims is that they have reduced the workforce of the City of Philadelphia, and we now have, what, 32,984 employees? At the end of the Wilson Goode administration, didn't we have around 24,000 or 25,000 employees?
And how come we have grown so much instead of the number of employees going down, at least according to everything that I have read in the papers and the claims of the Rendell administration? That's a very big growth.
And I apologize that you and I are looking at different numbers right at 111 11/17/98 LABOR & CIVIL SERVICE - Pub. Hearing - Res. 980154 the moment.
It's your numbers. But, tell me, what goals do you have to increase? If I tell you that we are at the 0 level in official administrators, by the end of the year, you know, how are we going to be there? Are we going to have 3, 4, are we going to be at percent, percent in official administrators? At that level, do we have goals per category? Do we have goals down the line?
Goals are developed within each department of the City, and what we are doing is working --
See, again, you're not -- you're saying that you don't have 'em.
Do you know any department that has goals? Do you have any goals established to go down the line in terms of those classifications that we have here and in either increasing, and where the need is at, increasing those numbers?
Well, I think -- I think across the board where we can do it, we are going 112 11/17/98 LABOR & CIVIL SERVICE - Pub. Hearing - Res. 980154 to do it and do do it. And, specifically, if you look at in the Police Department, the Fire Department, in the prisons, in all of their hiring programs, one of their objectives is to ensure that they have --
You have named three departments. I think we have Latino doctors, we have Latino accountants, we have Latino lawyers, we have a whole lot of other stuff other than individuals who can just be policemen or firemen. And if any department has made an improvement along those lines, it's the Police Department under Neal, and we kept a 10 percentile per class, and I don't know if that is being kept at this point. But I want to know, across the board, there has to be a commitment not just to say those areas where we need here because all this high crime in Latino areas. But who will monitor it? Who will -- who will monitor, who will let you know that goals are being met in the Property Department, in the Water Department -- that is abysmal -- in the Finance Department, in the Public Property Department, in the Health 113 11/17/98 LABOR & CIVIL SERVICE - Pub. Hearing - Res. 980154 Department, who will tell you?
That is -- that is our responsibility in terms of the monitoring of these departmental affirmative action programs. That is part of what we are doing with this project, that we monitor all of the biannual programs of the departments to ensure that they're doing everything that they possibly can to meet their stated goals and objectives. And where they are not successful in doing so, to work with them to assist them to meet those goals. And just as an aside, I think you will be pleased to know that in the police class that just went into the Department, I believe, yesterday, there were 10 Latinos in that class of 100.
That's been the policy since Willy Williams. It is the one department that has use selective-factor certification. It is the one department that the policy was put forward under Wilson Goode and has 114 11/17/98 LABOR & CIVIL SERVICE - Pub. Hearing - Res. 980154 been kept. I want to know, do we have the same sort of goals in every department of the City? And if we don't, why don't we? And if departments are not meeting it, why were you and your office not setting up the programs to be able to achieve it?
I think -- I will -- you know, granted, we need to do more than we have been doing in this area. Resources are finite. But part of what we are doing with the hiring improvement process is to put those mechanisms in place so that we can better monitor the --
Miss Seyda, 1989, a report, hearings were held, a mayor made a commitment, this mayor made the same commitment. And at the end of this administration, we still don't know -- I know that you're going to monitor it, but who in your office is going to be telling you the things that you need to be told? And how are we going to get the departments to be able to do the other things that need to be done in order to meet goals? It cannot just be left to a rhetorical 115 11/17/98 LABOR & CIVIL SERVICE - Pub. Hearing - Res. 980154 inference.
Within the Personnel Department, that's the responsibility of our affirmative action unit. They are the ones who are responsible for --
Could I ask a question. I want to join in on what they're saying. As we look at the City, and we are a city that provides services to people. And there are people who are of different cultures, ethnic groups, and backgrounds. I have a very diverse district which reflects pretty much Philadelphia. And I want to know, when I have an Indian who needs a service from the City, some help, can they get someone in that department, say, the Department of Human Services, how many social workers are of Latino or Asian or other 116 11/17/98 LABOR & CIVIL SERVICE - Pub. Hearing - Res. 980154 groups that are in the City that can speak the language, understand the culture, provide the services to the families in the Department of Health? When the Asians go to a health center, if they go, if the Latinos use the health centers, what is the diversity of that Health Department that provides those services to those people? What we want the Personnel Department to do is not let various departments have laissez-faire and do what they want to do. What we see you doing is providing that training and sensitizing them to the needs of what the goals are that are set by the City. They should be overall goals for every department in the City to be reflective of what is happening in the City. And we just had a report -- you just had Anderson Company do a reorganization for your department? Now, how much did that cost and what did we buy? Was it just to help us do better testing, or did it help us do a better job of coordinating throughout the City departments a better way of recruiting and hiring people that reflect the diversity of this city, to address the problems of Miss Cooper and Miss -- the other 117 11/17/98 LABOR & CIVIL SERVICE - Pub. Hearing - Res. 980154 young lady when they are frustrated, how do they get help? What did we buy, how much did it cost, and what did we buy?
The cost of the work that Anderson did for the City was about $2.5 million. The scope of the project is beyond simply hiring people, but it is recruiting and selecting a diverse and qualified workforce.
And we were insistent that diversity be built into our plans as a part of this project. And I personally pushed to ensure that diversity is a priority for and included within our programs.
But if -- was that program -- did you buy from Anderson Consultants their services solely for your department? Did they lay out a program for your department as well 118 11/17/98 LABOR & CIVIL SERVICE - Pub. Hearing - Res. 980154 as a plan for interacting with all the City departments? Or was it just for your department?
Well, by the very nature of the project itself, it's more inclusive than just the Personnel Department, because we're talking about policies that relate to how the City recruits, hires and retains its workforce -- not just employees in the City, but its entire workforce. And, accordingly, people who were involved with this project came not just from the Personnel Department but came from a majority of departments in the City government. So that in terms of the people who worked on this internal to the City, it was a very broad group of people. And it included African-Americans, Latinos, and Caucasians. It was not -- it was not just solely one demographic group.
Has your department set scheduled meetings with all of the City departments to talk about the new plan, the new program or the mission or whatever the results of this study were? I mean, how will the Health Department, 119 11/17/98 LABOR & CIVIL SERVICE - Pub. Hearing - Res. 980154 the Human Services Department, MOIS, for instance, understand those personnel agents and those departments? Will they know what has happened and what their responsibilities are to be? And do you meet with them periodically to talk about how they handle personnel issues in those departments?
I mean, we have ongoing meetings with all of the departments. I mean, part of what this program is and what the process is, is for there to be better communication between the departments and the Central Personnel Department and the Finance Department as well so that we're -- we're all going in the same direction and we all understand what our responsibilities are. We also do diversity training on a regular basis for the City workforce, you know, generally. And we have focus programs on a monthly basis on sexual harassment and on diversity.
Miss Seyda, I am 120 11/17/98 LABOR & CIVIL SERVICE - Pub. Hearing - Res. 980154 listening with care to your testimony, and I wonder what you have done to make sure that we have one unified personnel policy and not a policy that various from division to division, department to department. For instance, $2.5 million is a lot of money for a consulting contract. How did it improve our ability to attract and retain qualified minorities through our government? Certainly it has not begun to reflect itself in the statistics that we're looking at on your report -- on of your report, which is a dismal picture of a city workforce that is very, very non-diverse -- particularly if you look at Hispanics and their role in the City. So what -- tell me what you are doing to bring whatever lessons were learned from the contract into a citywide program so that everybody has access to the same kind of unified personnel policies and practices?
Well, I think -- I think we're going -- we're doing that in a number of ways. I mean, I think, in terms of our recruitment policies, we are -- one of our 121 11/17/98 LABOR & CIVIL SERVICE - Pub. Hearing - Res. 980154 objectives for the next months or year is to develop information brochures, material that goes to applicants and to the departments in terms of the City's hiring process, what it is, how it works. We are also work -- as far as recruitment is concerned, as I mentioned, we set up a recruitment advisory committee which works both ways. That's the vehicle for the departments to let us know what their concerns are, but it's also the vehicle for us to communicate with departments in terms of what their obligations are. Another example of what we did recently was, Kevin and I did a training program for all the personnel officers in the City on the implementation of the domestic partnership legislation that Council passed several months ago. So, I mean, on an ongoing basis, we -- granted, we need to do more, but we are setting up those communication lines with the departments so that the communication will work both ways, not just they're coming to us to make their needs 122 11/17/98 LABOR & CIVIL SERVICE - Pub. Hearing - Res. 980154 known, but also so that we can communicate that their obligations are as well.
It seems to me that we need to put one more piece in place, and that is a piece that evaluates how effective our efforts are. I mean, surely you can count the number of brochures you send out and you can count the number of meetings you attend and you can count the number of speeches that you give. But in the final analysis, if the numbers os under- represented minorities are not increasing, then we need to look at how much more of the old approach we have to continue doing and maybe look at what innovative approaches might need to be implemented. And, Kevin, before you tell me what's on your mind, I know it's going to be great wisdom -- well, no, maybe I will hear you because I want to ask a very specific question about some very frustrated people who came here today. Miss Seyda, I know you were here, and you too, Kevin. And I will ask the question you can form an answer to it as you speak. 123 11/17/98 LABOR & CIVIL SERVICE - Pub. Hearing - Res. 980154 What City avenue is available to an employee who feels himself or herself trapped, unable to get out of the group that I'm in, unable to get my present position fairly evaluated, unable to get anybody who knows or cares that I'm trapped. Those people gave perhaps the best example of the eternal conundrum -- you can't get there from here. And did that disturb you to the same degree that it disturbed me?
Councilwoman Clark and Councilmembers, thank you very much for giving me the chance to address you. I'm Kevin Vaughan, the Executive Director of the Philadelphia Commission on Human Relations. I wanted to say a few things from a couple different perspectives, and if you wouldn't mind, let me answer your direct question first. Truly, some of the examples that people gave here today, no one could have heard what they had to say and did not feel moved by their comments. What was more troubling to me, though, 124 11/17/98 LABOR & CIVIL SERVICE - Pub. Hearing - Res. 980154 in some ways was the fact that they had seemingly had many -- there were opportunities to pursue them; some people have pursued them, some people didn't pursue them at all.
And some appeared not to know what the process and structure is.
Right. And most of the people who work for the City of Philadelphia are members of unions. I mean, you have somebody from the non-represented classes, but the majority of people work for unions. The unions work very well. I mean, we at the Philadelphia Commission on Human Relations, we work very closely with the membership of the unions in terms of cases that would come up. We always insist to people that if they are represented by their union and they want to file 19 with us, that they let their union representatives know. I think there's some -- I mean, certainly, there seems to be some miscommunication between union representatives and some of the people whom they represent, as testified by people here today. And I think that there's a whole 125 11/17/98 LABOR & CIVIL SERVICE - Pub. Hearing - Res. 980154 process that collective bargaining sets forth in terms of how people file grievances and work through that system, and that's the system set up for City government to work through. If you have a problem in the job, hopefully, you can have a conversation with your supervisor directly and work that out. But if that isn't done, there's a whole grievance process in place for people to address those issues. Even if that fails, I know that the staff of the Commission who handle our intake do a lot of counseling for people. And anyone who does call and has a particular problem is invited in. Even if they do not have a particular case of discrimination that they want to file, they're given the opportunity to be counseled on how to collect data and how to keep a diary and what types of information might be helpful to them should they want to file a grievance later. So I guess my concern is for the -- the fact of the matter is that everyone that I can think of in City government certainly has a process to go through. And it seems to me that there was some confusion expressed today about 126 11/17/98 LABOR & CIVIL SERVICE - Pub. Hearing - Res. 980154 what those processes are.
Do we have a handbook, an employee handbook that spells out or at least addresses grievances and where to go to get your grievances heard?
I think people get that from the union, actually. There's nothing that I've seen in the City and from the --
I think I can address that. Actually, the City's Labor Relations Office is finalizing an employee handbook. We've been working with them on it as well. And included within that handbook is information like you've been alluding to in terms of how does an employee go about, you know, addressing concerns that they have in the workplace. I would also add that what our department does, which is very similar to what Kevin's agency does as well, is we entertain, quote, complaints or concerns that employees have on an informal basis. Many of the employees come to our agency with grievances and they may represent them as issues of being discriminated in 127 11/17/98 LABOR & CIVIL SERVICE - Pub. Hearing - Res. 980154 the workplace. I mean, what we tried to do is to resolve the problem, and we try to resolve it at the lowest level possible. And if a grievance and a problem can be resolved informally, that's our preference. Sometimes that happens, but sometimes that's not possible.
Miss Seyda, did you hear and take note of the people who came today? Do you have a little to-do list to be in touch with those people to see what, if anything, the City can do to help them, those who are employees who are disgruntled, whose who feel themselves discriminated against and, therefore, were not initially hired? What does today's testimony give you in terms of things to do?
Actually, my assistant is here with me today and she has been taking copious notes. And, unfortunately, I had to be out of room for a part of the testimony, but we have notes and a record from everybody who testified today so that we can go back and take a look at the specifics of the specific cases. 128 11/17/98 LABOR & CIVIL SERVICE - Pub. Hearing - Res. 980154
And is it your intent to do so? Are you going to be in touch with the people who came here today, complaining about City policies?
Thank you. I just -- the other thing that I had wanted to say, and I wanted to address you both as a City department head who has to work out some of these issues within my own department, as well as somebody who worked with the Personnel Department during the reorganization and kind of looked at some of the planing that was coming out of that and some of the results of that. When I initially arrived at the Commission as a City manager, it was very frustrating sometimes to try to figure out how to 129 11/17/98 LABOR & CIVIL SERVICE - Pub. Hearing - Res. 980154 make the Commission as responsive as I wanted it to be on some of these issues. I mean, I inherited an entire workforce that did not have vacancies. There were no -- I went through, I think, three and a half years, thinking I would never get to hire anybody in the time that I was at the Commission. And in the time that I've had the opportunities to hire people, and we've used selective-factor certification, we've used all of different things that the personnel office has --
And do selective factors permit you to correct under- representation?
No. It allows you to hire on the basis of a special skill so that, for example, in the Commission on Human Relations, we believe that one of the special skills that some of our workers must have is bilingual ability to communicate. And so we've been able to hire the first bilingual Vietnamese supervisor in the City, and we've been able to hire people based on their ability to speak Spanish, based on their ability to speak Chinese, Korean. 130 11/17/98 LABOR & CIVIL SERVICE - Pub. Hearing - Res. 980154
But those are things that will inherently increase the diversity of the workforce around language minorities, and we have been able to do that. It has not been easy testing and getting the information out about those tests. And the recruitment effort early on was largely on the Commission staff to have to go out and find people. So we're really encouraged by the fact that the Personnel Department has reorganized their recruitment efforts. They've included someone from the Commission on Human Relations as part of the team to look at how they're recruiting citywide, and making sure that those efforts reflect the kind of things that are set as priorities for the Personnel Department in terms of the diversity of the workforce. The other thing that I would say is that there's a unique opportunity at this moment for the Personnel Department in that they have just completed an evaluation, department by department, of coming vacancies and retirements 131 11/17/98 LABOR & CIVIL SERVICE - Pub. Hearing - Res. 980154 that will take place over the course of the next five years. They asked all of the departments to sit down and go through the staff that was there and kind of make some predictions about what they would need to fill spaces and what type of vacancies they would have.
Unless you have specific goals and timetables, knowing that opportunities are coming up and filling them so as to overcome your under-represented classes is two things. You have to have a goal, you have to be committed to it, you have to evaluate it on each opportunity -- not wait till you have something extra 'cause there's no such thing as an extra opportunity.
But I guess my point was that there was not -- prior to this, there was not, in my knowledge -- to my knowledge, an overall look at where -- at how thing were going to come up and how you might advertise and let people know where vacancies that they could -- I mean, 'cause everybody has to apply. It's all civil service. Again, everybody's got to take that test. 132 11/17/98 LABOR & CIVIL SERVICE - Pub. Hearing - Res. 980154 And then there's this whole issue of the Rule of 2, which -- I mean, there's so many -- just from a City manager's point of view and as some somebody who has to work a department who prides itself in trying to keep a varied workforce. There is obstacle after obstacle, some of which the Personnel Department has no control over. I mean, some of these rules are rules that are in place, that we have to operate with.
Miss Seyda, we've been reading a lot lately, and I read the report by James Jordan, in terms of the police, and that's the Public Safety Chair. It was very interesting in terms of the hiring problems that are occurring. We had Timoney coming in to advocate and to push for legislation so that we could recruit outside of Philadelphia. But one of the big problems is that we have an antiquated, biased test. And what is the process, one, to redoing the test, are you going to redo the test? And, two, how are you going about doing this?
First of all, the test that 133 11/17/98 LABOR & CIVIL SERVICE - Pub. Hearing - Res. 980154 we are currently using -- I would not say it is a biased test. The problem with the test is that the validity data does not exist to substantiate the fact that the test is valid. But that notwithstanding --
Yes, bottom line is, we are going to replace the test, absolutely. And we hope to have a finished product within the next few months. We have been working on this for some period of time. We -- what we are doing at the present time is doing some further work to enhance the validity data on a new test so that when we go into federal court, as we will be required -- as required to do, that we will have a product that will be acceptable to ail.
Is the NAACP and the Barrio Police Relations Project part of the consultation grouping in terms of developing the test?
We have an advisory group that had been working with us on the earlier 134 11/17/98 LABOR & CIVIL SERVICE - Pub. Hearing - Res. 980154 developmental work on the test. I know that there is interest on the -- I know on the part of the NAACP, I know that there are other groups out there who have an interest in this test.
Who is the advisory group that currently is advising? And is --
The advisory group, as it was initially set up, included representation from within the City, within the Police Department, the Guardian Civic League, and I believe that there was also an Hispanic association that was --
I do not have them with me 135 11/17/98 LABOR & CIVIL SERVICE - Pub. Hearing - Res. 980154 today, but that information is certainly --
So the NAACP, the Police Barrio Relations Project, the ACLU, were not a part of the advisory group.
I don't -- I don't -- I don't recall, I don't believe so. I would have to check.
Is there any input into the development of tests right now, any lawyers or test experts from these communities within the frame work of the development of this test?
As I indicated, what we are working on now is enhancing the validity data on the test, and we will be working with interested parties in terms of finalizing that product.
Are you consulting with any African-American, any Latino that is an 136 11/17/98 LABOR & CIVIL SERVICE - Pub. Hearing - Res. 980154 expert in biased testing or testing along the lines that, that is an expert on terms of cultural bias, detecting cultural bias in testing and racial bias and so on? Is there an African-American, is there a Latino involved in the process, experts along those lines?
And, in fact, I'm meeting with the Police Commissioner in the Mayor's Office later this week on this very issue, and we will be reviewing what the plans are for that test, and we will be more than happy to get back in touch with you.
Miss Seyda, you are aware that tests have national implications.
On testing is Briggs. 137 11/17/98 LABOR & CIVIL SERVICE - Pub. Hearing - Res. 980154
Which says that the test must measure skills reasonably necessary to do the job in an acceptable manner.
Therefore, you cannot use interested but volunteer people there; you must submit your test to a validation process.
So that you can then say that this test has withstood all the tests that make it as culturally bias-fee as is possible.
Right. The objective is to have a test that is valid in that it is predictive of performance on the job, and that it's also fair.
Right. And that you've got down as much cultural bias as is possible.
Recognizing that you can never get all of the cultural bias out of a test or any instrument. 138 11/17/98 LABOR & CIVIL SERVICE - Pub. Hearing - Res. 980154
Right. I just want to agree with you. You are absolutely correct, and that the objective is to reduce -- to minimize any bias in the test. You are absolutely correct.
Having said that, who is validating the test that you and a committee is constructing? Who is validating? I mean, it can't be that because you are well- intentioned that you think it is valid.
We have worked with group called "University Research" in Washington, D.C., and we are also in the process of also contracting with another consultant who will be working with us over the course of the next few months to do further validity on the test. There was -- a job analysis was done to collect data. A selection instrument was developed. And there has been validity work that has been done on that selection instrument. And we are, at this point, bringing in another consultant -- a psychometrician -- to do further 139 11/17/98 LABOR & CIVIL SERVICE - Pub. Hearing - Res. 980154 validation work so that we can ensure that we have a selection instrument that will be both valid and as bias-free as possibly can be the case.
Have you selected all of your outside forces, all of your consultants and your validation experts?
Yes, we have. And we are in the process of negotiating contracts with them now.
I just have a couple questions. And I know my Chair here wants to go. I guess my frustration is the -- I guess what I want the Personnel Department to be and what it is, and I want it to be the place where people can feel they can go and get fairness, that things are going to be all right. And I will relate a story to you. In 140 11/17/98 LABOR & CIVIL SERVICE - Pub. Hearing - Res. 980154 1959, I took a test in the Police Department, I worked in the Police Department. And I came out number in the City and number 1 in the Police 5 Department. 6 So when that lady talked about her story, I went to interview for a position, and do you know what the captain asked me? And I took the test for a Clerk Typist II. He said, Can you take shorthand? Now, I could take shorthand but that's what I didn't test for. They weren't going to pay me to be a secretary; they were going to pay me to be a Clerk Typist II. And I told him no -- yes, I take shorthand, but I'm here for a Clerk Typist II. And if you want to pay me to be a secretary, then I'll be a secretary, you put me in that category. And I was denied the position. Just that simple. You know, and it was not for a Steno I or Steno II; it was for a Clerk Typist II, which I passed the test and came out number in the City, in the Police Department. So it's that kind of subtle -- I don't know if it's discrimination or just subtle manipulation of the system to exclude people. And 141 11/17/98 LABOR & CIVIL SERVICE - Pub. Hearing - Res. 980154 it's what's happening to the woman in MOIS, her supervisors are manipulating the system so that she will never be a project leader. But we're going to look into that. And the other young lady who took a test came out number 1 in her department, number 8 in the City, and was told she was not qualified. How do department heads or staff people understand that they can't do this? Who is telling them that this is wrong? That's what I want the Personnel, to be to be the watch dog for all of the employees who work for the City, who get shafted. And like the lady in MOIS, she doesn't want to file a complaint 'cause she's going to get tagged that she's a troublemaker, and the poor lady is trying to make her years. 18 So she's going to sit there doing all 19 that work day in and day out, and they're going to 20 keep jerking her around, and there's nobody who can go and say, You all are wrong, you are wrong for doing this to this woman. 'Cause you're going to give her a temporary at the prison, but you can't give her a permanent in this department, which she can qualify for. And if she didn't 142 11/17/98 LABOR & CIVIL SERVICE - Pub. Hearing - Res. 980154 qualify for it in that department, why is she being sent to prison? I don't want to have to go through a whole lot of gyrations; I just want somebody in their face, telling them that they can't keep jerking her around. And I'm going to be in their face telling her that they're not going to keep jerking her around. But they shouldn't have to come to the City Council representative to get some justice. The justice ought to come from the Personnel Department. And that's what I want, that's my frustration in all of this. 'Cause I've been with the City a long time, and I've watched it happen. We deal with people over and over again, calling my office about problems they're having in their department because they're not treated fairly. I had a lady in the Health Department, who was on the track, on a career path. They wanted to take her off that career path. And do you know how they were going to do it? They were going to her to the prison. She's off the career path so she can't promote up in her department. It's those subtle manipulations that 143 11/17/98 LABOR & CIVIL SERVICE - Pub. Hearing - Res. 980154 hurt employees. And a lot of them just -- you know, they don't know -- well, she's a troublemaker, I don't want her 'cause she filed a grievance over there so we're not going to take her.
They get stigmatized if they file a complaint. So those two ladies -- and I understand the lady from MOIS was never on the clock. She was coming here to testify today and they put her on a clock so she couldn't come in and testify. Yes. So I'm just --
That's what I meant by, is there one process? Or does Personnel mean different things, depending on who you work for on different days. This is outrageous that we have as many personnel policies as we have personnel officers. And, Miss Seyda, that's what we expect you to take care of. And at a minimum, today's testimony has given you some glaring examples of what happens when there is no unified approach to it. And, quite frankly, it's not very satisfying to be told that there are a number of 144 11/17/98 LABOR & CIVIL SERVICE - Pub. Hearing - Res. 980154 plans that are going to be put in place. How does that help a person who is presently being squeezed by a system and nobody to hear them? You know, this is the eternal "if a true falls in the woods and nobody hears it, it doesn't make a sound." Not a sound that saves the tree. And the problem that we're having here is -- did you see the people who came and sat at the table? What did they all have in common? That they were not white and male.
No, there was one man, and you could think that that was a coincidence. But if you believe in that much coincidence, I want to be the first one to sell you a bridge. That's not coincidence. That is the absence of effective policies that are being policed in a fair manner. And absent that, you're up to, Does a person feel good about you on the day that you ask them for the opportunity to exercise your right not to be discriminated against. Which, I might remind you, is a federally protected right. 145 11/17/98 LABOR & CIVIL SERVICE - Pub. Hearing - Res. 980154
Well, I just want to say -- I didn't bring this up earlier. One reason also that we're here is because of complaints about the reorganization in the Personnel Department and how that process was not fair to the existing employees who were there. So we've talked about that back and forth, but I just want that to go back on the record, that that is one of the reasons we're here. And, actually, the lady who brought the complaint to my office, and we've been working with her, was not able to be here today because she was sent to the Federal Building on a project. And I'm wondering if that was coincidental.
We've talked about this, Councilwoman, and that is coincidental.
Of all the weeks in the year, she was sent to the Federal Building on a special project this week, the week of the hearing? 146 11/17/98 LABOR & CIVIL SERVICE - Pub. Hearing - Res. 980154
If there are no 8 other questions from any committee members, we will convene this committee hearing to the call of the Chair. Thank you. We will recess this to the call of the Chair. (Adjourned at 5:30 p.m.) - - - 147 C E R T I F I C A T E I HEREBY CERTIFY that the foregoing proceedings of the Council of the City of Philadelphia of Tuesday, November 17, 1998, were reported and accurately by me, and that this is a correct transcript of same. RE: COUNCIL COMMITTEE ON LABOR AND CIVIL SERVICE BILL NO. 960598 AND RESOLUTION NO. 980154 __________________________________, JOSEPHINE CARDILLO, Registered Professional Reporter