How much weight do you give to the fact that your interviewers were concerned about your having been dismissed without possibility of rehire?
I give it a lot of weight, 67 11/17/98 LABOR & CIVIL SERVICE - Pub. Hearing - Res. 980154 and I also give it a lot of weight because during the interview, the same people who interviewed me were not the people who I had deposed. Only one individual was the person who I had deposed, and I believe that was Mr. Tkaczuk, and he had a slight handicap, which made me remember him more so than the others. The other two were large, stocky guys, and the people who I deposed, who they state was Mr. Scaperotto and Mr. Wise were not the people who interviewed me. And in my depositions, I let it be known. So it was like a switch of personnel.
I would be happy to present Council with any documents if you request.
Thank you very much for coming forth. We appreciate your testimony.
Since my Chair is having a discussion, there are a few other people we'll call before call before we call Miss Seyda so we can spend time with her. 68 11/17/98 LABOR & CIVIL SERVICE - Pub. Hearing - Res. 980154 Rusty Thompson and Mary Ann Cooper. Mary Ann Cooper, you're here? All right, you may come forward. Is Rusty here? Where is -- he, where is Rusty? Is Mr. Crapper also a part of your group?
Why don't you come forward. (Above-named individuals Comes forward.)
Thank you very much. Would you identify yourself for the record Miss Cooper.
My name is Mary Ann Cooper. I'm a City of Philadelphia employee.
Okay. I'm a long-term City employee. I have been a City of Philadelphia employee since June of 1967. Since that time, my entire performance rating was nothing less than satisfactory. All of 69 11/17/98 LABOR & CIVIL SERVICE - Pub. Hearing - Res. 980154 my supervisors' comments on my ratings have been positive. I have never been a disciplinary problem. I do not recall ever being on any sick abuse list. I report to work on time every day and have never had a problem with lateness. I started my career as a data entry level key punch operator and worked as a key punch operator for years in data entry at the Police 10 Department. During that time, I attended 11 Community College and secured an associate's 12 degree in data processing. 13 I took a promotion exam for an 14 entry-level computer operation position in 1982. 15 I was not offered a job in that field at the Police Department's operations unit. I accepted a position at the Free Library of Philadelphia, which, at that time, was just automating. I worked there as a computer peripheral equipment operator for four years in their computer unit. In 1986, I took a promotional exam for computer console operator. I was offered a position at what is now known as "MOIS," which is the Mayor's Office of Information Services. The 70 11/17/98 LABOR & CIVIL SERVICE - Pub. Hearing - Res. 980154 position at MOIS specified a temporary detail at the Police Department's operations unit. I accepted. Around 1987, MOIS pulled it's entire operational staff out of the Police Department. I made an agreement with the supervisors at the Police Department to stay and become a permanent Police Department employee, with the understanding that I would be promoted to programmer. I also agreed to work temporary out of class as a computer operator due to severe staffing problems the Police Department was experiencing with their operations unit. I also agreed to help train the entire new computer operations staff, which included a white male who started working in 1987. I worked out of class in the operations unit for two years as a computer operator. In 1989, I moved over to the applications unit and began working at a full performance level as a programmer. After having worked as a programmer for five years, with no 24 complaints about my work, and at the urging of supervisor, I took and passed a test for 71 11/17/98 LABOR & CIVIL SERVICE - Pub. Hearing - Res. 980154 Programmer Analyst II in 1994. I ranked number one both citywide and interdepartmental. I was never promoted. The reason given was that I was not qualified. I filed a complaint in November of 1994 with the Human Relations Commission, charging race and sex discrimination. I based my complaint on two separate incidents. One was special treatment given to a white male who had less time working for the City than myself but was allowed to resign from the Police Department's applications unit. This white male then began working for a private company, and after having worked for this company for several months, had his resignation rescinded, had a leave of absence request submitted, had this leave of absence request backdated, which allowed him to take the test for Programmer Analyst I without losing any benefits and without going through any probationary period. The second white male named in my complaint was a male that I helped train as a computer operator in 1987. This white male, who worked in Operations, was promoted from computer 72 11/17/98 LABOR & CIVIL SERVICE - Pub. Hearing - Res. 980154 operator to a programmer trainee in September of 1989. He was then promoted to a programmer in January of 1990. He then was promoted to a programmer analyst trainee, actually, in August of 1990. He then was promoted to a Programmer Analyst II in August of 1991. He then was promoted to a Programmer Analyst III in September of 1992.
This white male, during the time of his promotions, was detailed to the operations unit, working out of class as a computer operator on a rotating shift. Around July of 1995, I took a promotional exam for Programmer Analyst I. I ranked number 8 citywide and 1 within my department on a promotional list. I again was denied promotion and told I was not qualified. I made an attempt to secure a promotion out of my department but I was told by a commanding officer that disparaging comments made by my supervisor prevented any chance of getting promoted out of my department. After filing complaint to the Human Relations Commission, I began to experience difficulty on my job. I began to complain of not 73 11/17/98 LABOR & CIVIL SERVICE - Pub. Hearing - Res. 980154 being given sufficient documentation to complete my assignments. I began to be given insufficient time to complete my assignments. I began to be left out of staff meetings. I began to be given assignments with conflicting instructions. I also complained to my supervisor that my programs were being sabotaged. Someone was deleting my programs from the operating system. I filed a second complaint with the Human Relations Commission, charging retaliation. I file suit in Federal Court on my first complaint of race and sex discrimination in 1997. My supervisors made false allegations that I failed to turn in assignments, that the assignments that I turned in were shoddy, with glaring mistakes, and that the assignments which I completed were past their due dates and took too long to complete. As a result of these inaccurate statements, a decision not if my favor was rendered. In conclusion, I have been denied a promotion, and I have been forced to work in a hostile working environment. I would like to see changes made in the City of Philadelphia 74 11/17/98 LABOR & CIVIL SERVICE - Pub. Hearing - Res. 980154 promotional policy. I would also like an investigation into my complaint of false statements made by my supervisors, which directly resulted in my lawsuit being dismissed. I can only open hope that this Council will address the issue of City officials with their own agenda, disallowing promotional opportunities for long-term departmental employees.
I have included the memo from Personnel on my ranking on Programmer Analyst II, my ranking on Programmer Analyst I, the last four years of my performance ratings, and the interdepartmental numbers where you can see there was a vacancy in my department the month before I was eligible for my first promotion in 1990. Lastly, I have my associate's degree from the Community College in data-processing. Thank you.
I'm sorry. You indicated that you took the test, and you came out number on the test?
Yes. 75 11/17/98 LABOR & CIVIL SERVICE - Pub. Hearing - Res. 980154
Don't they usually tell you before you take the test whether you'd qualify or not?
And they didn't do that with you because you, in fact, had all of the necessary qualifications --
And then you were told that you did not qualify. Did they give you any reason?
My supervisor said that I wasn't qualified for that particular job.
It was your supervisor that told you that you -- 76 11/17/98 LABOR & CIVIL SERVICE - Pub. Hearing - Res. 980154
No, I didn't go to Personnel. From Personnel, they told me I was qualified, and they also -- I did go to one interview with the DA's office when I was on the Programmer Analyst II list, and the DA's office said to me, Why isn't your own department taking you? I kind of felt that because my own department did not select me, that it sort of was -- it sort of hurt me going in to other interviews. And the DA's office asked me, You're just trying to force your department to pick you. And I said to them, If you will select me, I will work for you. And I was not selected.
Any other questions for this witness? (No further questions for this witness.)
Thank you very much. We appreciate your coming forth with your 77 11/17/98 LABOR & CIVIL SERVICE - Pub. Hearing - Res. 980154 testimony.
Good afternoon. State your name and title for this record.
I'm John Crapper, C-R-A-P-P-E-R. I am the Chairperson for the Association of City Managers and Professional Employees. I come to you this afternoon, Councilpeoples, on behalf of a few areas of concern of the "non-reps," as we are known in the City of Philadelphia, those individuals who are not represented by a collective bargaining unit but who are the mainstay and the guts and the power of the City administration who does the work. One is that the personnel system in the City of Philadelphia, as far as pay appeal, must be adjusted so that individuals will be paid accordingly to their skills and their knowledge. Secondly, I think it's absolutely absurd that the Personnel Department of this city 78 11/17/98 LABOR & CIVIL SERVICE - Pub. Hearing - Res. 980154 would abolish the training and development unit of the personnel division. If there's anything that we need, our employees supervisors and managers need constant training and development. Why would we abolish the training and development unit of the Personnel Department? Thirdly, out-sourcing. This Personnel Department just recently this year have out-sourced the writing and the oral testing of the police test. We have qualified individuals in the Personnel Department who can write those tests and can give oral testing. We have no reason to out-source that. We need to try to utilize those individuals within the City government who are qualified to do these things and save the city some money. The Anderson consultants that were hired to re-engineer the Personnel Department, they have made some improvements, but these improvements are no more than surface improvements, something that could have been done in-house, in-house. I believe, and so do the non-reps of the City of Philadelphia believe that these improvements that they have made have been 79 11/17/98 LABOR & CIVIL SERVICE - Pub. Hearing - Res. 980154 an injuring factor to the Personnel Department. We are not aware of the civil service changes that are being passed down from the Personnel Department and the Civil Service Commission each and every month. And while I'm on the subject, Madame Chairlady and members, let me address the recruitment, the recruitment of personnel by the Personnel Department. We believe and we think it's only fair that the Central Personnel Department recruit those individuals who are qualified, we believe that. And that means giving a test. There are quite a few individuals who have received T&E's; we don't oppose that, but we do believe in a written test, and if necessary, an oral test. And finally, let me speak a little on diversity. The City of Philadelphia personnel, from the testimony that was given by the Personnel Director, Miss Linda Seyda, I believe, indicated that about 46 percent were Afro-American, 49 percent were Caucasian, and about 6 percent was Latino or Asian. If that is the case, then that should be reflected; the population of this city 80 11/17/98 LABOR & CIVIL SERVICE - Pub. Hearing - Res. 980154 should be reflected in the hiring practices of this city. If we do not test and hire within the City government and within the City confines, then we are missing tax dollars, is that not right? We want individuals to be hired here so that they can spend and give back to this economy. I believe that the discrimination policies of this Central Personnel Department need to be addressed by this committee and by the City Council as a whole. If you need the assistance of myself or anyone in my organizations, we'll be readily at your call to do whatever we possibly can to rectify the situations we have. Thank you so very much.
Mr. Crapper, what is your title again, your affiliation?
The Chairperson of the Association of City Managers and Professional Employees.
I have a question. 81 11/17/98 LABOR & CIVIL SERVICE - Pub. Hearing - Res. 980154
You said that the Anderson consultants were an injury to the Department. Could you elaborate on that a little more.
I believe that the results, by looking at the reorganization or re-engineering of the Central Personnel Department, have not been very fruitful. Recently, I hired an individual for one of my units, the photo lab of the Department of Records. And I told this individual that he would have to take the test, and as we heard before, he would have to qualify to be one of the two to be hired, in the top two. And that individual was not one of those. He went to Central Personnel and asked them -- well, let me backtrack. First, when the individual came on board and we knew that we was going to have a test, I asked my personnel officer of the Records Department to talk to Personnel, to have them give us a test. They said they would, but they didn't. 82 11/17/98 LABOR & CIVIL SERVICE - Pub. Hearing - Res. 980154 What they did was give a police photographer's test, and then instructed the Records Department to pull the person off of that list. A police photographer is an entirely situation from a regular City photographer. When this individual went over to find out why he was not even called for the test, Central Personnel claimed they lost his original application and sent his original notification to his previous address. I believe that what we have there, since the reorganization or the "re-engineering," as they call it of Central Personnel, I believe that this could not have been happening if we had used the individuals who were in-house, the personnel who is in-house. The employees that are presently in that department could have straightened that department out if they had the cooperation of the management and the administration.
Are you saying that the existing personnel in the central -- the employees in the Central Personnel Department were not involved in the reorganization of the 83 11/17/98 LABOR & CIVIL SERVICE - Pub. Hearing - Res. 980154 Department?
Give me some of your experience, because the percentages of Latinos and so on are not 6 percent within the City government but when you say that they should reflect it and the Personnel Department is preventing that from happening, what do you want exactly by that?
I wouldn't exactly say that, Councilman, that they are preventing it from happening; I'm saying that they might not be 84 11/17/98 LABOR & CIVIL SERVICE - Pub. Hearing - Res. 980154 encouraging, they might not be encouraging individuals to come forward. I was here recently as a Councilmatic hearing, one of the committees, and the Police Commissioner was here presenting to you, at that time I think, a proposition, an ordinance to recruit outside of the city.
This committee. Now, what I'm saying is, if we can recruit outside, why can't we recruit inside? Why can't we put our efforts in here? That's what I'm looking to see. I don't see any banners or any flyers in the City of Philadelphia advertising jobs for City employees.
And the efforts are not within the City government, they're not putting forward the programs or the outreach to be able to do that.
That's correct. And if I'm wrong, someone show me. I don't see any advertisement in the City of Philadelphia, in the proper of City of 85 11/17/98 LABOR & CIVIL SERVICE - Pub. Hearing - Res. 980154 Philadelphia, advertising. If you do not go to the Personnel Department to receive an application, then you do not know what jobs are available and what the qualifications are.
Mr. Crapper, I don't want to say you're wrong, but I happen to be a late-night cable television person, and they do have a channel that they do do this. I mean, that's something, and I mean, it should be on channels 3, 6, and 10, you're correct.
I mean, the people need to be able to find better things than that, and I agree with you on that. Anyone else have any other questions for this witness? (No further questions for this witness.)
Thank you so very much for your help and your cooperation. 86 11/17/98 LABOR & CIVIL SERVICE - Pub. Hearing - Res. 980154
Is there anyone else who wants to testify before we get to the personnel director? (No response.)
My name is Linda Seyda, and I am the Personnel Director for the City of Philadelphia. Good afternoon, members of the Labor and Civil Service Committee. I am pleased to be here with you this afternoon to talk with you about the City's civil service hiring process. As you may know, in July of 1996, the Personnel Department initiated a multi-year effort to enhance the City's processes for hiring and promoting civil service employees. This effort's goal is to improve the City's hiring process so that City managers can hire diverse, well-qualified employees in a more timely manner, thereby improving the City's ability to deliver quality services to the public. 87 11/17/98 LABOR & CIVIL SERVICE - Pub. Hearing - Res. 980154 The discussions on improving the hiring process began in the summer of 1996 and included representatives from senior management in the City as well as human resource specialists throughout the government and also most of the staff within the Personnel Department from the senior staff down to the lower-level support staff. Work to date has focussed primarily on thee areas: instituting a citywide workforce planning process, restructuring processes within the Department, and improving the timeliness and quality of hiring, through improvements in how jobs are defined and how candidate are recruited and assessed for City positions. The full effect of the project will be realized throughout the remainder of this administration and beyond the year 2,000. Even at this stage, however, we have already made progress toward realizing our goals of improving the timeliness, quality, and consistency of the Personnel Department's services. Most notably, we are pleased that we have reduced the time required to recruit, hire, and promote civil service employees. The average 88 11/17/98 LABOR & CIVIL SERVICE - Pub. Hearing - Res. 980154 number of days between announcement of an exam and completion of an eligible list has dropped 48 percent since fiscal year '97, an 83-day or almost 3-month reduction. Our goal for the end of this fiscal year is to reach an average of 75 days. This reduction was the result of the initiatives of the hiring improvement project, especially the citywide workforce planning process. Of most importance to this project is the workforce planning process in which departments, on an annual basis, submit their lists or requests for positions for review and pre-approval by both the Personnel Department and the Budget Office. The Personnel Department enters into service agreements with each department in agreeing to provide requested services by specific target dates. By enabling staff to plan and be accountable for specific outcomes, workforce planning has, in fact, improved the timeliness and quality of Personnel services and has aligned the hiring activities more closely with the City's budget process. Altogether, these initiatives assist our client agencies in filling their 89 11/17/98 LABOR & CIVIL SERVICE - Pub. Hearing - Res. 980154 vacancies in a more timely manner, and therefore enables the Department to continue to provide their critical services to the citizens of Philadelphia. In addition, I am pleased to report that in October, a local human resource professionals group recognized the Personnel Department's achievements by declaring the city an honor-mention winner in the Greater Philadelphia Human Resource Department of the Year award. In order to support and sustain the improvements in the City's hiring process --
Excuse me, Miss Seyda, we all have written copies of your testimony. This is about exciting as dental surgery to us -- to me.
Not that you're not an exciting person, but we have to get to some of the meat and potatoes of this.
You've submitted your testimony, everyone has it, it's here in the record. Let me ask you a couple questions, then 90 11/17/98 LABOR & CIVIL SERVICE - Pub. Hearing - Res. 980154 we'll get the other people.
Okay. I read your testimony when we got it. Your testimony talks about the recruitment initiatives which your department is undertaking. Can you tell this committee on how the initiatives will both address the diversity issues in the workforce and the need to attract qualified applicants for the City of Philadelphia -- people that live in the city, that's what we're looking at here for here.
What we have done as part of this process -- and I think it's important to note that over a period of time, the Personnel Department lost a number of employees. And, in fact, we were at one time a department of approximately 125 to 130 people. Now we're down to a department of about 100 people. So as result, we basically lost the resources that had previously been devoted to recruitment. And so what we are doing now is to reestablish a recruitment initiative and a formal recruitment team within the Department. And that group -- and granted, it's 91 11/17/98 LABOR & CIVIL SERVICE - Pub. Hearing - Res. 980154 just a couple of people, but we have set up an advisory committee with representatives from the departments. They're currently in the process of doing a needs analysis. We have representation on that committee from the Human Relations Commission, a deputy director from the Human Relations Commission sits on that committee. And it is our goal and objective to do stronger targeted recruitment which will better address the diversity needs of the City workforce, and also to establish relationships with those organizations in the City, in the community, and in our community, and at the local colleges and universities, particularly those universities that truly represent the demographics of our community, to establish targeted recruitment programs that will be effective both in enhancing diversity and also in recruiting qualified candidates. And we think that they're equally important objectives.
You spoke a little bit about that in your opening statement. Can you give me some background information on the eligibility lists? You talked about how you tried 92 11/17/98 LABOR & CIVIL SERVICE - Pub. Hearing - Res. 980154 to shave down the turnaround times. Can you tell me how you do that? Because a lot of the problems by the previous people that testified, the lists seemed to have went run on forever. I mean, the one was here from '89, and she on the list from '93, five years, and she still didn't get the job she wanted. Without getting into a specific case, are you turning them lists faster around?
What we're trying to do is to reduce, you know, reduce the time from when am exam is announced and when a list is actually --
There are some figures in my testimony. And we have reduced the turnaround time so it's now down to, I believe I said 91 days, which is a reduction from what it had been a couple years ago, of 174 days. 93 11/17/98 LABOR & CIVIL SERVICE - Pub. Hearing - Res. 980154 And we're doing that by working more closely with the departments and with the Budget Bureau so that we're not announcing exams for classes that the budget -- where the Budget Bureau is not going to approve openings or where the Department doesn't truly need candidates. And also what we are trying to do is to look at those job classifications which are most critical and where it is important to have eligible lists on the books all the time. A good example of that would be social workers, for example, uniform classes, entry-level classes. So that when departments have a need to fill a position, there will be eligible lists there for them to use and this will not have to wait to get individuals referred to them to fill their vacancies.
Okay. My last question. On of your testimony, and this isn't -- I didn't let you read that far, but you talked about a customer service program as the initial point of contact to inquiries from employees and applicants concerning the City's personnel system. 94 11/17/98 LABOR & CIVIL SERVICE - Pub. Hearing - Res. 980154 How will this program work in the future? And how will this help myself and the other members of Council in advising our constituents about jobs that may or may not be available?
For a couple of reasons -- some are internal reasons and some are not -- we felt it was important to establish one central point within the Department to address customer services needs. And so we've set up on the -- not just on the concourse level, where we've also had access, but also on the 16th floor of the Municipal Services Building, a customer service center where employees are being trained in how to handle a multitude of requests so that when candidates or employees have questions, it can become like a one-stop shopping point for them, so that they are not continually referred from one person to another person to somebody else. We still have a good bit of work to do in this area because employees have to be cross-trained so that they know how all the functions work within the Department. 95 11/17/98 LABOR & CIVIL SERVICE - Pub. Hearing - Res. 980154 But what we would like to see is once finding the department where an employee can come in and say I'm looking for a transfer from Department A to Department B, how do I go about doing that, how do I get information about me to appointing authorities in other departments? Or I'm interested in becoming a social worker with the City of Philadelphia or any number of other job titles, when can I expect that that examination will be announced? Or I'm on the eligible list for a certain job, what is my ranking at the present time, when can I anticipate that there might be openings? Granted, it's going to take time for all of our people to come up to speed so that they have all the information and they're thoroughly trained. And also, we have a need for some technology enhancements in order to make this work. But we think it's going to be, you know, a really good service for our employees. Also, I would like to point out to Council, 'cause I think it's important -- will be of interest to you, is that access to information 96 11/17/98 LABOR & CIVIL SERVICE - Pub. Hearing - Res. 980154 about jobs in the City and about City services are available on the Internet. They're available on the City's intranet, they're available in the Personnel Department, and information about jobs that are open is available in every branch library of the City of Philadelphia. So that as your constituents or members of the public raise questions about how do I know how to find out about what jobs are open, you can refer to them to any branch in the Free Library system, and they are now maintaining that information.
Thank you. Anyone else have questions for Miss Seyda? Councilwoman Tasco, Councilwoman Verna, then Councilman Ortiz.
I wanted to ask you, how would you have helped that young lady, Allison Richardson? You heard her frustration. What is the role of our personnel department to help people like that who feel so frustrated about what's happening to them in their department? 97 11/17/98 LABOR & CIVIL SERVICE - Pub. Hearing - Res. 980154 You and I have talked about this, and the kind of things that she outlined are the kinds of concerns that have been raised to me over and over again, about the manipulation in the department to prevent people from moving forward.
Well, first of all, I mean, I have to say that I am not familiar with her particular situation.
However, employees do have the option to have somebody from our department come and take a look at their position. From her testimony, and I don't know -- I certainly do not have all the facts, and we will look at it later, but the employee has an option to have their job looked at and evaluated. And if they think that they're working at a higher level, we are obligated take a look at what they're doing and to say Yes, we think you are; or, No, we think you're not. Granted, resources are limited and we can't do that for 10,000 employees on a weekly basis, but it is our role and it's really our Charter-mandated role to provide services to the 98 11/17/98 LABOR & CIVIL SERVICE - Pub. Hearing - Res. 980154 departments and also to the City's workforce. And our obligation extends to the City's workforce just like it does to the City departments. And quite frankly, sometimes there are conflicting objectives. Sometimes what a department's looking for or asks for is not what the employee wants, and there are going to be times when a situation cannot be resolved in a way that everybody's happy with. But that is our Charter-mandated responsibility, to represent the interests of both the departments and the employees and to ensure that the City's hiring practices are merit-based and not discriminatory.
But it's sort of like the Law Department represents us and also represents the mayor. What side are they going to come down on? They usually come down on the side of the mayor. Where does the employee get fairness in this process? If her situation is a classic example of employees who feel that -- and you and I have talked about this in my office, about how specifications are changed so that only certain 99 11/17/98 LABOR & CIVIL SERVICE - Pub. Hearing - Res. 980154 employees can qualify for a position. Or, in her case, she does all the work but wherever she tries to moved forward, she gets an unsatisfactory rating after all of these years of working very hard and is given all these projects. Suddenly she's unqualified. I mean, where is the fairness for her? And who represents her and who protects her in this?
Again, I'm not familiar with the particulars of this particular case of this particular individual, but in terms of how --
What system do you have in your department that could help employees address a situation like that?
The process of establishing positions throughout the City government and establishing classes in our department and in other departments is a public process. And for any position or class to be established, we have -- we're required to go through and take a look at what the duties and responsibilities are, to take a look at what the requirements are of that position, to go to a 100 11/17/98 LABOR & CIVIL SERVICE - Pub. Hearing - Res. 980154 public hearing before the Civil Service Commission for not just the department, but the employee, to have an opportunity to be heard. And as far as the Personnel Department itself is concerned, that is why, because it's our department. With the current reorganization, we have made a decision that we will go to the Federal Office of Personnel Management to have them take a look at those jobs because we think since it's our house, that we need to have somebody from the outside, who everybody perceives as being neutral, to take a look at the -- look at our jobs and the selection instrument that we'll ultimately end up using.
I just want to add to one of the questions that you had from a previous witness. She said she took the civil service exam, came out number one on the list, and then was told that she did not qualify. I couldn't understand. Could you explain to me how that happens? I thought you were disqualified before taking the test if you didn't have all the necessary requirements. 101 11/17/98 LABOR & CIVIL SERVICE - Pub. Hearing - Res. 980154
Well, again, I'm not familiar with the specifics of this particular situation. There could be, I mean, any number of explanations. The department may not really have had a vacancy, the department may have told her that when it was not the case.
But I gather that her department did have a vacancy, she was then interviewed by the District Attorney's office, and that's what I didn't quite understand. If she wasn't qualified, how would these people all be interviewing her? And they wanted to know why her employer did not take her since they have an opening. I want to ask you, if that individual is number one on the list and, say, there are three opening that exist this that category throughout the City --
-- the number and number 2 candidates would be interviewed? Or is it the top three candidates?
It is the top two. Under the Philadelphia Home Rule Charter, we operate 102 11/17/98 LABOR & CIVIL SERVICE - Pub. Hearing - Res. 980154 under Rule 2.
So if she was not considered for the first opening, then she and number 3 would have to be interviewed?
Well, I think we ought to look into that. I think that that doesn't sound very good to me. You said that hiring improvements started in 1996?
Can you tell us how many in your department at that time were white, African-American, Hispanic, and Asian; and compare that to what we have today?
Currently, in the Personnel Department, our staff is 50 percent white, 47 percent African-American, and 2 percent Latino. If you go back to --
'96. 103 11/17/98 LABOR & CIVIL SERVICE - Pub. Hearing - Res. 980154
'96. . . I have it here. I will pull it out for you. What I have here is readily available.
Now, this is prior to '96, the figures that you're giving us?
In 1992, the Personnel Department workforce was 54 percent white, 39 percent African-American, and 4 percent Hispanic. It is now 50 percent white, 46.8 percent African-American, and 2 percent Hispanic.
Miss Seyda, do we have a document that you're reading from?
I don't know that you do but I'm more than happy to provide it to you.
Miss Seyda, can you tell us, how many grievances have been filed 104 11/17/98 LABOR & CIVIL SERVICE - Pub. Hearing - Res. 980154 since this new process went into effect?
Thank you. You said that from '92 to '96, the Hispanic number had gone down percent, from to 2?
So now it's 50 percent of the employees, right? It has gone down to 2 percent?
In the Personnel Department, that's correct, because that's basically -- that's two people.
Yeah, it's not a lot. I mean, we're not saying that there are many Latinos in the Personnel Department or in any other department across the City, but you're acquainted with the Human Relations investigation and the hearings that we held back in, I think it 105 11/17/98 LABOR & CIVIL SERVICE - Pub. Hearing - Res. 980154 was, '89?
I -- yes, I am familiar with them. I did not participate in those hearings but, yes, I know of those hearings.
Well, the charge, in essence, from those hearings to the mayor and the Personnel Department was to see how we can increase the number of Latinos within the overall departments of the City of Philadelphia. And there were a whole series of recommendations that were made at that point. And could you detail to me whether the Personnel Department has transmitted those recommendations to every department, and are those recommendations being applied and have they been instituted?
As I recall, one of the recommendations in that report was to establish and ensure that there was -- that there is an affirmative action officer in each department who has the responsibility for working -- for developing --
We have the Human Relations Commissioner here. He can -- he might 106 11/17/98 LABOR & CIVIL SERVICE - Pub. Hearing - Res. 980154 be able to help you in terms of what the Human Relations report says.
Right. One of the recommendations within that report was that each City department should appoint an affirmative action officer at a management level, and that that individual should coordinate programs, seminars, and periodic EEO reviews. And that is the case; each City department does have an EEO officer who plays that role. And on a semiannual basis, the Personnel Department from each department, which they give us an update as to the status of their plans. And this data then provides for us specific demographic information on Latinos as well as on other groups.
And have you -- and I agree that they have been established.
But the key issue here is whether it has been effective and whether they have actually fulfilled their functions of increasing Latino representation in all those departments. 107 11/17/98 LABOR & CIVIL SERVICE - Pub. Hearing - Res. 980154 And given the situation I read from your report, which I got today, Miss Seyda -- and I thought we were going to get this report much earlier, we've asked for the report during the budget hearings, and I know the Rendell administration really is really tardy in giving in to certain requests that we ask for committees, but I would have liked to have had this before the hearing so I could have looked at it much more in-depth and reviewed it and have my staff with me go over it. And right now I'm just going over it myself. But given the nature of it, we have Hispanics and officials and administrators making up 0 percent of the -- at that level, although I believe that maybe you're not including Andy Perez, right? I think that's at least a slight of 1 percent. I don't know how he got there. Professionals are at 1.47 percent. Technicians, 2.4 person. And this is not by department, but overall.
Protective services is at 2.18. And protective services, 4.15. 108 11/17/98 LABOR & CIVIL SERVICE - Pub. Hearing - Res. 980154 And anyway, we make up a total of 2.86. Do you know what the percentage of Latinos was at the end of the Wilson Goode administration?
Was it higher or lower than 2.86? I just want to know whether we have made any improvement in the last six years or retrogressed back to the level of the early '90s. Isn't this a part of what the Human Relations report said, that you needed to have that data in order to keep information available to see whether we were progressing or not?
Since -- looking at information from 1990, at that time, the percentage of Latinos in the City workforce was 2.08 percent, and it has been increasing slightly every year since then. Granted, these have not been large increases, but they're going in the right direction.
Yeah, from 2.08 to 2.86. (Laughter.) 109 11/17/98 LABOR & CIVIL SERVICE - Pub. Hearing - Res. 980154
Very quickly, I would imagine. I mean, if the tortoise and the hare were here, you know, I don't know how fast we would be advancing. What plans do we have, now that we know that we're not being very successful, at implementing the Human Relations Report of 1989? What plans do we have to recruit and retain Latino employees at the professional, at the -- at the above-clerical and janitorial services level? Although those are needed and we do want those types of jobs. But I do believe that policies in departments change when we have people at the policy level that are looking at the discrepancies.
Well, part of our objective in reemphasizing a recruitment program for the City and doing it on a centralized basis is to enhance our targeted recruitment programs for not just African-Americans, but for Latinos and other people as well so that the City workforce, over a period of time, does truly represent the demographics of our community. 110 11/17/98 LABOR & CIVIL SERVICE - Pub. Hearing - Res. 980154 It's important that our recruitment programs be targeted, that we go to the local universities to --
Let me stop you, let me stop you. From now till the end of the year, what is your goal in terms of elevating the numbers of Latinos across the board in the City of Philadelphia? And I was surprised because one of the things that the Rendell administration claims is that they have reduced the workforce of the City of Philadelphia, and we now have, what, 32,984 employees? At the end of the Wilson Goode administration, didn't we have around 24,000 or 25,000 employees?
And how come we have grown so much instead of the number of employees going down, at least according to everything that I have read in the papers and the claims of the Rendell administration? That's a very big growth.
And I apologize that you and I are looking at different numbers right at 111 11/17/98 LABOR & CIVIL SERVICE - Pub. Hearing - Res. 980154 the moment.
It's your numbers. But, tell me, what goals do you have to increase? If I tell you that we are at the 0 level in official administrators, by the end of the year, you know, how are we going to be there? Are we going to have 3, 4, are we going to be at percent, percent in official administrators? At that level, do we have goals per category? Do we have goals down the line?
Goals are developed within each department of the City, and what we are doing is working --
See, again, you're not -- you're saying that you don't have 'em.
Do you know any department that has goals? Do you have any goals established to go down the line in terms of those classifications that we have here and in either increasing, and where the need is at, increasing those numbers?
Well, I think -- I think across the board where we can do it, we are going 112 11/17/98 LABOR & CIVIL SERVICE - Pub. Hearing - Res. 980154 to do it and do do it. And, specifically, if you look at in the Police Department, the Fire Department, in the prisons, in all of their hiring programs, one of their objectives is to ensure that they have --
You have named three departments. I think we have Latino doctors, we have Latino accountants, we have Latino lawyers, we have a whole lot of other stuff other than individuals who can just be policemen or firemen. And if any department has made an improvement along those lines, it's the Police Department under Neal, and we kept a 10 percentile per class, and I don't know if that is being kept at this point. But I want to know, across the board, there has to be a commitment not just to say those areas where we need here because all this high crime in Latino areas. But who will monitor it? Who will -- who will monitor, who will let you know that goals are being met in the Property Department, in the Water Department -- that is abysmal -- in the Finance Department, in the Public Property Department, in the Health 113 11/17/98 LABOR & CIVIL SERVICE - Pub. Hearing - Res. 980154 Department, who will tell you?
That is -- that is our responsibility in terms of the monitoring of these departmental affirmative action programs. That is part of what we are doing with this project, that we monitor all of the biannual programs of the departments to ensure that they're doing everything that they possibly can to meet their stated goals and objectives. And where they are not successful in doing so, to work with them to assist them to meet those goals. And just as an aside, I think you will be pleased to know that in the police class that just went into the Department, I believe, yesterday, there were 10 Latinos in that class of 100.
That's been the policy since Willy Williams. It is the one department that has use selective-factor certification. It is the one department that the policy was put forward under Wilson Goode and has 114 11/17/98 LABOR & CIVIL SERVICE - Pub. Hearing - Res. 980154 been kept. I want to know, do we have the same sort of goals in every department of the City? And if we don't, why don't we? And if departments are not meeting it, why were you and your office not setting up the programs to be able to achieve it?
I think -- I will -- you know, granted, we need to do more than we have been doing in this area. Resources are finite. But part of what we are doing with the hiring improvement process is to put those mechanisms in place so that we can better monitor the --
Miss Seyda, 1989, a report, hearings were held, a mayor made a commitment, this mayor made the same commitment. And at the end of this administration, we still don't know -- I know that you're going to monitor it, but who in your office is going to be telling you the things that you need to be told? And how are we going to get the departments to be able to do the other things that need to be done in order to meet goals? It cannot just be left to a rhetorical 115 11/17/98 LABOR & CIVIL SERVICE - Pub. Hearing - Res. 980154 inference.
Within the Personnel Department, that's the responsibility of our affirmative action unit. They are the ones who are responsible for --
Could I ask a question. I want to join in on what they're saying. As we look at the City, and we are a city that provides services to people. And there are people who are of different cultures, ethnic groups, and backgrounds. I have a very diverse district which reflects pretty much Philadelphia. And I want to know, when I have an Indian who needs a service from the City, some help, can they get someone in that department, say, the Department of Human Services, how many social workers are of Latino or Asian or other 116 11/17/98 LABOR & CIVIL SERVICE - Pub. Hearing - Res. 980154 groups that are in the City that can speak the language, understand the culture, provide the services to the families in the Department of Health? When the Asians go to a health center, if they go, if the Latinos use the health centers, what is the diversity of that Health Department that provides those services to those people? What we want the Personnel Department to do is not let various departments have laissez-faire and do what they want to do. What we see you doing is providing that training and sensitizing them to the needs of what the goals are that are set by the City. They should be overall goals for every department in the City to be reflective of what is happening in the City. And we just had a report -- you just had Anderson Company do a reorganization for your department? Now, how much did that cost and what did we buy? Was it just to help us do better testing, or did it help us do a better job of coordinating throughout the City departments a better way of recruiting and hiring people that reflect the diversity of this city, to address the problems of Miss Cooper and Miss -- the other 117 11/17/98 LABOR & CIVIL SERVICE - Pub. Hearing - Res. 980154 young lady when they are frustrated, how do they get help? What did we buy, how much did it cost, and what did we buy?
The cost of the work that Anderson did for the City was about $2.5 million. The scope of the project is beyond simply hiring people, but it is recruiting and selecting a diverse and qualified workforce.
And we were insistent that diversity be built into our plans as a part of this project. And I personally pushed to ensure that diversity is a priority for and included within our programs.
But if -- was that program -- did you buy from Anderson Consultants their services solely for your department? Did they lay out a program for your department as well 118 11/17/98 LABOR & CIVIL SERVICE - Pub. Hearing - Res. 980154 as a plan for interacting with all the City departments? Or was it just for your department?
Well, by the very nature of the project itself, it's more inclusive than just the Personnel Department, because we're talking about policies that relate to how the City recruits, hires and retains its workforce -- not just employees in the City, but its entire workforce. And, accordingly, people who were involved with this project came not just from the Personnel Department but came from a majority of departments in the City government. So that in terms of the people who worked on this internal to the City, it was a very broad group of people. And it included African-Americans, Latinos, and Caucasians. It was not -- it was not just solely one demographic group.
Has your department set scheduled meetings with all of the City departments to talk about the new plan, the new program or the mission or whatever the results of this study were? I mean, how will the Health Department, 119 11/17/98 LABOR & CIVIL SERVICE - Pub. Hearing - Res. 980154 the Human Services Department, MOIS, for instance, understand those personnel agents and those departments? Will they know what has happened and what their responsibilities are to be? And do you meet with them periodically to talk about how they handle personnel issues in those departments?
I mean, we have ongoing meetings with all of the departments. I mean, part of what this program is and what the process is, is for there to be better communication between the departments and the Central Personnel Department and the Finance Department as well so that we're -- we're all going in the same direction and we all understand what our responsibilities are. We also do diversity training on a regular basis for the City workforce, you know, generally. And we have focus programs on a monthly basis on sexual harassment and on diversity.
Miss Seyda, I am 120 11/17/98 LABOR & CIVIL SERVICE - Pub. Hearing - Res. 980154 listening with care to your testimony, and I wonder what you have done to make sure that we have one unified personnel policy and not a policy that various from division to division, department to department. For instance, $2.5 million is a lot of money for a consulting contract. How did it improve our ability to attract and retain qualified minorities through our government? Certainly it has not begun to reflect itself in the statistics that we're looking at on your report -- on of your report, which is a dismal picture of a city workforce that is very, very non-diverse -- particularly if you look at Hispanics and their role in the City. So what -- tell me what you are doing to bring whatever lessons were learned from the contract into a citywide program so that everybody has access to the same kind of unified personnel policies and practices?
Well, I think -- I think we're going -- we're doing that in a number of ways. I mean, I think, in terms of our recruitment policies, we are -- one of our 121 11/17/98 LABOR & CIVIL SERVICE - Pub. Hearing - Res. 980154 objectives for the next months or year is to develop information brochures, material that goes to applicants and to the departments in terms of the City's hiring process, what it is, how it works. We are also work -- as far as recruitment is concerned, as I mentioned, we set up a recruitment advisory committee which works both ways. That's the vehicle for the departments to let us know what their concerns are, but it's also the vehicle for us to communicate with departments in terms of what their obligations are. Another example of what we did recently was, Kevin and I did a training program for all the personnel officers in the City on the implementation of the domestic partnership legislation that Council passed several months ago. So, I mean, on an ongoing basis, we -- granted, we need to do more, but we are setting up those communication lines with the departments so that the communication will work both ways, not just they're coming to us to make their needs 122 11/17/98 LABOR & CIVIL SERVICE - Pub. Hearing - Res. 980154 known, but also so that we can communicate that their obligations are as well.
It seems to me that we need to put one more piece in place, and that is a piece that evaluates how effective our efforts are. I mean, surely you can count the number of brochures you send out and you can count the number of meetings you attend and you can count the number of speeches that you give. But in the final analysis, if the numbers os under- represented minorities are not increasing, then we need to look at how much more of the old approach we have to continue doing and maybe look at what innovative approaches might need to be implemented. And, Kevin, before you tell me what's on your mind, I know it's going to be great wisdom -- well, no, maybe I will hear you because I want to ask a very specific question about some very frustrated people who came here today. Miss Seyda, I know you were here, and you too, Kevin. And I will ask the question you can form an answer to it as you speak. 123 11/17/98 LABOR & CIVIL SERVICE - Pub. Hearing - Res. 980154 What City avenue is available to an employee who feels himself or herself trapped, unable to get out of the group that I'm in, unable to get my present position fairly evaluated, unable to get anybody who knows or cares that I'm trapped. Those people gave perhaps the best example of the eternal conundrum -- you can't get there from here. And did that disturb you to the same degree that it disturbed me?
Councilwoman Clark and Councilmembers, thank you very much for giving me the chance to address you. I'm Kevin Vaughan, the Executive Director of the Philadelphia Commission on Human Relations. I wanted to say a few things from a couple different perspectives, and if you wouldn't mind, let me answer your direct question first. Truly, some of the examples that people gave here today, no one could have heard what they had to say and did not feel moved by their comments. What was more troubling to me, though, 124 11/17/98 LABOR & CIVIL SERVICE - Pub. Hearing - Res. 980154 in some ways was the fact that they had seemingly had many -- there were opportunities to pursue them; some people have pursued them, some people didn't pursue them at all.
And some appeared not to know what the process and structure is.
Right. And most of the people who work for the City of Philadelphia are members of unions. I mean, you have somebody from the non-represented classes, but the majority of people work for unions. The unions work very well. I mean, we at the Philadelphia Commission on Human Relations, we work very closely with the membership of the unions in terms of cases that would come up. We always insist to people that if they are represented by their union and they want to file 19 with us, that they let their union representatives know. I think there's some -- I mean, certainly, there seems to be some miscommunication between union representatives and some of the people whom they represent, as testified by people here today. And I think that there's a whole 125 11/17/98 LABOR & CIVIL SERVICE - Pub. Hearing - Res. 980154 process that collective bargaining sets forth in terms of how people file grievances and work through that system, and that's the system set up for City government to work through. If you have a problem in the job, hopefully, you can have a conversation with your supervisor directly and work that out. But if that isn't done, there's a whole grievance process in place for people to address those issues. Even if that fails, I know that the staff of the Commission who handle our intake do a lot of counseling for people. And anyone who does call and has a particular problem is invited in. Even if they do not have a particular case of discrimination that they want to file, they're given the opportunity to be counseled on how to collect data and how to keep a diary and what types of information might be helpful to them should they want to file a grievance later. So I guess my concern is for the -- the fact of the matter is that everyone that I can think of in City government certainly has a process to go through. And it seems to me that there was some confusion expressed today about 126 11/17/98 LABOR & CIVIL SERVICE - Pub. Hearing - Res. 980154 what those processes are.
Do we have a handbook, an employee handbook that spells out or at least addresses grievances and where to go to get your grievances heard?
I think people get that from the union, actually. There's nothing that I've seen in the City and from the --
I think I can address that. Actually, the City's Labor Relations Office is finalizing an employee handbook. We've been working with them on it as well. And included within that handbook is information like you've been alluding to in terms of how does an employee go about, you know, addressing concerns that they have in the workplace. I would also add that what our department does, which is very similar to what Kevin's agency does as well, is we entertain, quote, complaints or concerns that employees have on an informal basis. Many of the employees come to our agency with grievances and they may represent them as issues of being discriminated in 127 11/17/98 LABOR & CIVIL SERVICE - Pub. Hearing - Res. 980154 the workplace. I mean, what we tried to do is to resolve the problem, and we try to resolve it at the lowest level possible. And if a grievance and a problem can be resolved informally, that's our preference. Sometimes that happens, but sometimes that's not possible.
Miss Seyda, did you hear and take note of the people who came today? Do you have a little to-do list to be in touch with those people to see what, if anything, the City can do to help them, those who are employees who are disgruntled, whose who feel themselves discriminated against and, therefore, were not initially hired? What does today's testimony give you in terms of things to do?