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Committee Hearing, December 8, 2010

Minutes from Philadelphia City Council Committee Hearings, Dec 8, 2010

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Names our system found in this transcript. Automatically extracted, so it can include anyone named in the record, not only officials or parties.

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COUNCIL OF THE CITY OF PHILADELPHIA2 COMMITTEE ON RULES - - - Room 400, City Hall4 Philadelphia, Pennsylvania Wednesday, December 8, 2010, 10:19 p.m.5 - - - BILL 100079 - Amending Title 14 of the Philadelphia Code, entitled "Zoning and7 Planning," by adding a Subsection 14-1640, entitled "Ridge Avenue Special District8 Controls," under certain terms and conditions. 9 BILL 100753 - Amending Philadelphia Zoning Maps by changing zoning designations of10 certain areas of land located within area bounded by E. Moreland Avenue, Winston Street,11 E. Mermaid Lane, and Germantown Avenue. 12 BILL 100784 - Amending Philadelphia Zoning Maps by changing the zoning designations of13 certain areas of land located within an area bounded by Eighth Street, Somerset Street,14 Seventh Street, and Lehigh Avenue. 15 COMMITTEE MEMBERS PRESENT: Anna C. Verna, Chair W. Wilson Goode, Jr.16 Blondell Reynolds Brown William K. Greenlee Darrell L. Clarke Jack Kelly17 Frank DiCicco Donna Reed Miller 18 Also Present: Councilman Frank Rizzo 19 - - - 20 21 22 23 24 25 2 12.8.10 - RULES - Bill No. 1000791

Council President Verna

Good2 morning, everyone. This is a public3 hearing of the Committee on Rules. I4 would ask the clerk to please read the5 title of Bill No. 100079.6

The Clerk

Bill No. 100079, an7 ordinance amending Title 14 of the8 Philadelphia Code, entitled "Zoning and9 Planning," by adding a Subsection10 14-1640, entitled "Ridge Avenue Special11 District Controls," under certain terms12 and conditions.13 (Witness comes forward.)14

Council President Verna

Good15 morning. Please identify yourself for16 the record and proceed with your17 testimony.18 (Witness comes forward.)19

Mr. Kramer

Good morning,20 Council President Verna and members of21 the Rules Committee.22 I am William Kramer, Division23 Director of the Development Division of24 the Philadelphia City Planning25 3 12.8.10 - RULES - Bill No. 1000791 Commission, and I am here today to2 testify on Bill No. 100079, which was3 introduced into City Council on February4 12, 2010.5 Bill No. 100079 amends the6 Philadelphia Zoning Code by creating a7 new zoning overlay entitled, "The Ridge8 Avenue Special District Controls," which9 will place new land use height, façade,10 and signage controls for only those11 properties zoned C2-Commercial that have12 on Ridge Avenue between Hermitage Street13 and Monastery Avenue.14 Bill No. 100079 creates use15 restrictions in this district. They16 include certain auto-related uses as well17 as temporary employment agencies,18 warehouses, and wholesale showrooms which19 will be prohibited in the Ridge Avenue20 Special District Controls area.21 Additionally, in an effort to22 permit only active uses on the ground23 floor only, certain uses are prohibited24 on the ground floor only, including25 4 12.8.10 - RULES - Bill No. 1000791 professional offices, funeral parlors,2 laboratories, personal service or3 treatment of patients, radio or4 television studios, and certain utilities5 The new district establishes6 requirements for properties affected by7 these new controls, including an8 8,000-square-foot limitation on the9 amount of net leaseable ground area used10 for commercial purposes in newly erected11 buildings. Newly erected buildings shall12 not be less than 25 feet or more than 4513 feet above grade.14 New regulations permitting roof15 structures and headhouses are created,16 permitting such structures under certain17 terms and conditions.18 New landscape screening,19 lighting, and façade provisions will be20 added for new structures built within the21 district.22 New sign controls are included23 in the bill requiring that signage must24 be accessory to the current building use,25 5 12.8.10 - RULES - Bill No. 1000791 and Art Commission approval will be2 required for projecting signs.3 Prohibited signs include intermittently4 illuminated box and awning signs,5 freestanding pole and monument signs,6 rooftop signs, signs with intermittent7 flashing illumination, and signs with8 digital electronic messages9 In order to maintain an active10 district, vehicular access from Ridge11 Avenue shall be prohibited, and all12 street parking shall be permitted only13 within the rear 50 percent of the lot14 depth. And a parking lot having more15 than five parking spaces must provide16 landscaping which shall not be less than17 15 percent of the area of the parking18 lot.19 The Philadelphia City Planning20 Commission, at its meeting on March 16,21 2010, recommended Bill No. 100079 be22 approved.23 That's the conclusion of my24 testimony. If you have any questions,25 6 12.8.10 - RULES - Bill No. 1000791 I'll be happy to answer them for you.2

Council President Verna

Thank3 you.4 The Chair recognizes Councilman5 Jones.6

Councilman Jones

Thank you,7 Madam Chair.8 The Fourth District is blessed9 with a number of strong, viable10 commercial corridors; one of them is11 Ridge Avenue. In spite of a recession,12 they've managed to grow and maintain job13 creation.14 They've managed to maintain a15 persona of being one of the best small16 towns in the City of Philadelphia. It's17 a place where people know you. The Ridge18 Avenue Diner and other places are19 landmarks up there, where, almost in a20 small-town manner, you can walk down the21 street and still get your shoes fixed and22 things like that.23 This does not happen all by24 itself; it happens with the good25 7 12.8.10 - RULES - Bill No. 1000791 leadership of Bernard Guet, who has2 been the -- who we've been blessed to3 have as our president up there, has done4 a yeoperson's job of holding things5 together in spite of the economic6 climate.7 In order to do what he has to8 do and maintain the quality of the9 business association and the partnership10 with us, but also his membership is11 important, and he has moved the12 boundaries a little bit to include some13 people who actually want to be included,14 and I'm happy that this kind of15 forward-thinking and this kind of16 organization exists within our district,17 and it should be replicated around the18 City.19

Council President Verna

Thank20 you very much.21 Are there any questions of22 Mr. Kramer from members of the committee?23 (No questions.)24 COUNCIL PRESIDENT VERNA:25 8 12.8.10 - RULES - Bill No. 1000791 Mr. Kramer, thank you very much.2 Our next witness is the3 Executive Director of the Roxborough4 Development Corporation.5 (Witness comes forward.)6

Mr. Guet

Good morning, Madam7 President.8

Council President Verna

Good9 morning.10

Mr. Guet

My name is Bernard11 Guet. I'm the Executive Director for the12 Roxborough Development Corporation.13 Our service area is Ridge14 Avenue from Main Street to Domino Lane.15 Our mission is to work together with16 local businesses and residents to support17 economic development and promote a clean,18 attractive, safe, and prosperous19 community.20 Philadelphia is a city of21 neighborhoods, and neighborhoods are very22 much part of the heritage of this city.23 Already several CDCs, which are community24 development corporations, have created25 9 12.8.10 - RULES - Bill No. 1000791 Special Services Districts for their2 commercial corridor.3 The zoning overlays ensure that4 the unique fabric and every5 characteristic of each of these6 neighborhoods is protected. Special7 Services Districts alter the type of8 business usage, signage, building height,9 as Mr. Kramer mentioned just before me.10 The creation of a special11 district enables neighborhood commercial12 corridors to create an engaging shopping13 environment based on the desires of local14 residential and business leaders.15 The Roxborough Development16 Corporation has commissioned Brown &17 Keener, our associate, to develop a18 Special Services District plan between19 Monastery and Hermitage Street. We are20 not talking the entire corridor; we are21 talking a section of the corridor, which22 is a central corridor here.23 In 2004, the RDC developed a24 master plan for the Roxborough Commercial25 10 12.8.10 - RULES - Bill No. 1000791 Corridor and started to implement it in2 2005. To this day, we continue to grow3 the same consistent vision. This4 proposal will reaffirm our master plan5 and is consistent with our vision for6 this section of the commercial corridors7 to become an active, vibrant,8 entertaining section of Roxborough.9 For the past year-and-a-half,10 we have worked with the Planning11 Commission -- Mr. Kramer that just spoke12 before me again -- and they guided us13 with a few recommendations that were14 implemented. It was presented to the15 entire Planning Commission, including16 Mr. Allen Greenberger, who favorably17 approved it.18 We have produced a well-19 illustrated, easy-to-read Ridge Avenue20 rule book to give to future developer,21 and we have one copy for the Council if22 needed.23 Keeping in line with this24 vision, we are asking City Council to25 11 12.8.10 - RULES - Bill No. 1000791 give its stamp of approval.2 Thank you.3

Council President Verna

Thank4 you very much.5 Are there any questions or6 comments of this witness?7 (No questions.)8

Council President Verna

Thank9 you again.10

Mr. Guet

Thank you.11

Council President Verna

Our12 next witness is Jo Ann Desper, Roxborough13 Development Corporation.14 (Witness comes forward.)15

Council President Verna

Good16 morning, welcome.17

Ms. Desper

Good morning,18 Madam Chair and Councilmembers. My name19 is Jo Ann Desper. I live at 609 Hermit20 Street, in the Roxborough area,21 particularly in the Wissahickon area of22 Roxborough. I'm a founding member of23 Neighbors Enhancing Wissahickon, I'm a24 board member of the Roxborough25 12 12.8.10 - RULES - Bill No. 1000791 Development Corporation, and chair of the2 Promotions Committee.3 I'm here representing a lot of4 people like myself who have put a lot of5 time and attention into helping brand6 Roxborough as a place for fun, family,7 and shopping. We feel it's essential8 that we brand Roxborough as this9 destination for shopping and dining,10 particularly the area that Mr. Guet spoke11 about between Monastery Avenue and12 Hermitage Street.13 The master plan about which he14 spoke has identified this section of the15 corridor as the Neighborhood Downtown16 Central Business District, and it serves17 pedestrian shoppers. Many of the18 building uses in this section of Ridge19 Avenue are commercial, with residential20 units located above the businesses, and21 are situated against the sidewalk. They22 are really geared towards having a23 pleasant walking experience along the24 ridge.25 13 12.8.10 - RULES - Bill No. 1000791 Businesses are accessible for2 pedestrian shoppers. We have two3 municipal parking lots located on4 adjacent side streets that provide 2005 parking spaces offering free two-hour6 parking for shoppers who come to the7 area.8 If the ordinance to permit the9 Special Services District for the Ridge10 Avenue Commercial Corridor between11 Monastery Avenue and Hermitage Street is12 affirmed by City Council, it will only13 enhance the Roxborough Commercial14 District and afford opportunities for new15 businesses and new growth.16 This is an opportunity for the17 Mayor and City Council, along with the18 Commerce Department, to continue their19 mission to support the revitalization of20 the Roxborough Commercial Corridor,21 create additional jobs, and sustain the22 local economy. We ask that you please23 consider extending this.24 Thank you very much for your25 14 12.8.10 - RULES - Bill No. 1000791 time.2

Council President Verna

Thank3 you. Thank you.4 Any questions of this witness?5 (No questions.)6 COUNCIL PRESIDENT VERNA:7 Again, I thank you.8 Do we have anyone else to9 testify on this bill? Please come10 forward and identify yourself for the11 record.12 (Witness comes forward.)13

Mr. Keener

I'm Mark Keener of14 Brown & Keener Urban Design. I've been15 working with Roxborough since 2004 and am16 one of the primary authors of this, along17 with the Planning Commission.18 I think one of the things, as19 you know, all of Philadelphia de facto20 main streets have become so over time,21 and the orderly conversion of a road to a22 main street, you know, takes a bit of23 trouble, but it's done by incremental24 investment over time. And even today,25 15 12.8.10 - RULES - Bill No. 1000791 every one of those property owners are2 investing in their properties.3 And what this does, together4 with the guide books that we created, it5 provides a way that every increment of6 investment makes Ridge Avenue a little7 better rather than a little worse.8 Everybody has sort of laid out what is in9 here; Mr. Kramer was very articulate10 about the content.11 I could answer any questions12 about the intention.13

Council President Verna

Does14 anyone have any questions?15 (No questions.)16

Council President Verna

No?17 Thank you.18 Do we have anyone else to19 testify on this bill?20 (No response.)21 COUNCIL PRESIDENT VERNA:22 Seeing no one, we will now consider Bill23 No. 100784 at this point in time.24

The Clerk

Bill No. 100784, an25 16 12.8.10 - RULES - BILL 1007841 ordinance to amend the Philadelphia2 Zoning Maps by changing the zoning3 designations of certain areas of land4 located within an area bounded by Eighth5 Street, Somerset Street, Seventh Street,6 and Lehigh Avenue.7 COUNCIL PRESIDENT VERNA:8 Mr. Kramer?9

Mr. Kramer

Good morning,10 Council President Verna and members of11 the Rules Committee. I am William12 Kramer, Division Director of the13 Development Division of the Philadelphia14 City Planning Commission, and I am here15 today to testify on Bill No. 100784,16 which was introduced into City Council17 November 18, 2010.18 Bill No. 100784 will amend the19 Philadelphia Zoning Maps by rezoning the20 block bounded by Eighth Street, Somerset21 Street, Seventh Street, and Lehigh Avenue22 from an existing zoning designation of23 R5-Residential to the proposed24 designations of ASC-Area Shopping Center25 17 12.8.10 - RULES - BILL 1007841 and C3-Commercial.2 This block is the site of the3 old Edison High School, which is4 presently vacant and is in disrepair.5 The developers intend to subdivide the6 block into two portions and reuse a7 portion of the existing building for a8 senior housing development on the one9 parcel, approximately 61,000 square feet,10 and demolish the structures on the other11 parcel in order to construct a new12 shopping center with an expected grocery13 store of approximately 20,000 square14 feet, some other retail uses, and pad15 uses, possibly including a drive-through16 restaurant.17 The Philadelphia City Planning18 Commission will consider Bill No. 10078419 at its meeting of December 14, 2010, and20 it will be presented with a staff21 recommendation for approval.22 That's the conclusion of my23 testimony, and I'd be happy to answer any24 questions you may have.25 18 12.8.10 - RULES - BILL 1007841

Council President Verna

Thank2 you.3 Are there any questions for4 Mr. Kramer from members of the committee?5 (No questions.)6

Council President Verna

Thank7 you, Mr. Kramer.8 Our next witness is Leslie9 Smallwood-Lewis.10 (Witness comes forward.)11

Ms. Smallwood-Lewis

Good12 morning.13

Council President Verna

Good14 morning.15

Ms. Smallwood-Lewis

My name16 is Leslie Smallwood-Lewis, and I am one17 of the partners of 701 West Lehigh18 Partners, which entered into an agreement19 of sale with the Philadelphia School20 District on March 10, 2010, to purchase21 the old Thomas Edison High School site,22 located at 701 West Lehigh Avenue.23 Joined with me today are other24 partners of 701 West Lehigh Partners and25 19 12.8.10 - RULES - BILL 1007841 the seller of the property, the School2 District of Philadelphia.3 We are before you today,4 seeking your recommendation and approval5 for the site to be rezoned from its6 current R-5 designation to a split7 designation of C-3 for the rear portion8 and area shopping center for the front9 portion of the site, as proposed by the10 Philadelphia City Planning Commission.11 The Thomas Edison High School12 has sat vacant for ten-plus years, and13 due to its lack of use and extensive14 vandalism, the building is blighted,15 unsafe, and in need of demolition.16 It is the partnership's17 intention to demolish the school building18 fronting Lehigh Avenue and construct a19 new community retail shopping center. As20 designed, the site will accommodate a21 grocery store, two pads, and an22 additional 12,000 square feet of retail.23 It is also the partnership's24 intention to retain and rehabilitate the25 20 12.8.10 - RULES - BILL 1007841 61,000-square-foot annex building2 fronting Somerset Street into a 60+ unit3 affordable senior housing facility, a4 need that has been confirmed by both the5 community and the Councilwoman's office.6 We have conducted community meetings and7 have been in constant communication with8 the Councilwoman's office regarding the9 project. The community is in support of10 the building being demolished and the11 site being redeveloped into community12 retail and senior residential living.13 Our plan for the site calls for14 the retail center to front Lehigh Avenue,15 which is a four-lane commercial corridor,16 and the senior living to front Somerset,17 which abuts the residential neighborhood.18 Both the partnership and the19 Councilwoman's office believe that our20 proposed design complements and fits21 within the fabric of the community. It22 is anticipated that the project will23 create 60-plus full-time-equivalent jobs24 for community residents and 80-plus25 21 12.8.10 - RULES - BILL 1007841 construction jobs.2 If we are successful in3 rezoning the site, it is the intention of4 the partnership to purchase the site and5 commence demolition early spring of 2011.6 We thank you in advance for7 your support and your yes vote for the8 rezoning of the old Thomas Edison High9 School site.10

Council President Verna

Thank11 you very much.12 Any questions from members of13 the committee?14 (No questions.)15 COUNCIL PRESIDENT VERNA:16 Seeing none, I thank you.17

Ms. Smallwood-Lewis

Thank18 you.19

Council President Verna

Do we20 have anyone else to testify on this bill?21 (No response.)22 COUNCIL PRESIDENT VERNA:23 Seeing no one, I would ask the clerk to24 please read the title of Bill No. 100753.25 22 12.8.10 - RULES - BILL 1007531

The Clerk

Bill No. 100753, an2 ordinance to amend the Philadelphia3 Zoning Maps by changing the zoning4 designations of certain areas of land5 located within an area bounded by East6 Moreland Avenue, Winston Street, East7 Mermaid Lane, and Germantown Avenue.8 (Witness comes forward.)9 COUNCIL PRESIDENT VERNA:10 Mr. Kramer?11

Mr. Kramer

Good morning,12 Council President Verna and members of13 the Rules Committee.14 I am William Kramer, Division15 Director of the Development Planning16 Division of the Philadelphia City17 Planning Commission, and I am here to18 testify on Bill No. 100753, which was19 introduced by Councilmember Miller on20 November 4, 2010.21 Bill No. 100753 amends the22 Philadelphia Zoning Maps by changing the23 zoning designations of certain areas of24 land located within an area bounded by25 23 12.8.10 - RULES - BILL 1007531 East Moreland Avenue, Winston Street,2 East Mermaid Lane, and Germantown Avenue3 from the existing zoning designation of4 G2-General Industrial to a proposed5 designation of C2-Commercial.6 The remapping will allow the7 Fresenius Medical Center and the Delaware8 Valley Nephrology & Hypertension9 Associates to operate a dialysis center10 with accessory doctors' offices.11 The proposed developer plans to12 rehabilitate existing vacant structures13 and provide parking in the rear. The14 operation will include 34 dialysis15 machines and provide vital medical care16 to the community by providing both17 dialysis treatment and training for18 individuals to manage their care at home.19 This project is the subject of20 a decision by the Zoning Board of21 Adjustment, which is currently on appeal22 in the courts. The decision of the board23 was to grant the requested relief for the24 property, with a proviso limiting the25 24 12.8.10 - RULES - BILL 1007531 hours of operation. The applicant2 requested the board to reconsider the3 decision, which, at an administrative4 session, the board did. The board5 removed the proviso in executive session,6 and a decision was appealed to the7 courts.8 The predominant zoning9 designation for this block is commercial,10 either a C-2 or a C-1 commercial11 designation; therefore, the rezoning of12 the parcel to C2-Commercial designation13 is consistent with the existing pattern14 of land use on the block. This bill does15 recognize the existence and continued16 operation of an industrial entity17 adjacent to the subject property.18 The Philadelphia City Planning19 Commission considered Bill No. 100753 at20 their meeting of November 16, 2010.21 After consideration, the Commission22 recommended that Bill No. 100753 be23 approved.24 It should be noted that at the25 25 12.8.10 - RULES - BILL 1007531 meeting, there were several2 representatives of the community raising3 their concerns with regards to this bill.4 The Philadelphia City Planning Commission5 also recommended that Councilwoman Miller6 continue to assist the continuing7 dialogue between all the interested8 parties.9 That's the conclusion of my10 testimony. I appreciate the opportunity11 to be before you and answer any questions12 you may have.13

Council President Verna

Thank14 you, Mr. Kramer.15 Mr. Kramer, I know that I,16 along with my colleagues, have received17 quite a bit of correspondence on this,18 and some people are saying that this is,19 quote, spot zoning.20 Would you address that issue,21 please, for the record.22

Mr. Kramer

Yes, ma'am.23 For the record, this is a24 particular block that had a combination25 26 12.8.10 - RULES - BILL 1007531 of G2-Industrial for a large portion of2 it along Moreland Avenue to Winston3 Street, and further along Winston Street.4 So there was this triangular piece of5 ground that was zoned G-2.6 The primary consideration of7 this block is, it mostly is C-2 and C-1.8 This would rezone a portion of this back9 to C-2 or to C-2.10 With the vacation of industrial11 uses in this existing building, if I were12 to go in and look at the properties13 without a use in here giving the existing14 commercial designation on the other15 ground on the block, we would normally16 consider rezoning this to a commercial17 classification.18 The number of (indiscernible)19 classification depends on the structure20 and how tall it is and how much area21 there is involved with it. In this case,22 it would most likely be a C-223 classification.24 It would not necessarily be25 27 12.8.10 - RULES - BILL 1007531 considered spot zoning in that in this2 particular instance, it is one property.3 But given the fact that it makes up a4 large portion of the block that is then5 consistent in changing to what the rest6 of the designation of the block would be,7 I would say that it is not spot zoning.8 And we are recognizing that9 there's an ironworks, I believe,10 industrial use just adjacent to this that11 we are remaining as G-2.12

Council President Verna

Thank13 you. I just thought that that should be14 placed on the record. Thank you so much.15 The Chair recognizes Councilman16 DiCicco.17 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Thank you,18 Madam Chair.19 Good morning, Mr. Kramer. Two20 questions. I just actually got one21 answered for it from Councilwoman Miller.22 I notice on the existing map23 and the proposed map, on the proposed24 map, you still leave an area of 45 feet25 28 12.8.10 - RULES - BILL 1007531 wide; I don't know how deep it is, 982 feet deep, as G2-Commercial. Wouldn't it3 be more appropriate to do all of that G-24 to a C-2, understanding that there's an5 existing business there but they would be6 grandfathered in?7

Mr. Kramer

That is correct.8 We could have done that, but we don't9 normally rezone the property unless we10 are requested to do so, unless it's a11 part of an overall community-based12 remapping bill.13 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: And my14 other question is: As a matter of right,15 give us some examples of the kinds of16 uses that could be permitted if the G-217 classification was not removed.18

Mr. Kramer

The G-219 classification is a classification that20 allows fairly heavy industrial uses on21 the property. It allows manufacture of22 all sorts of different things from their23 base materials.24 As a differentiation in a25 29 12.8.10 - RULES - BILL 1007531 limited industrial classification, you're2 taking Part A and Part B and putting them3 together, or doing warehousing and that4 kind of thing.5 More heinous is, G-2 would6 permit you to do outside storage of7 materials. So you could take your8 parking lot and turn it into a moving9 place where you store all the pallets of10 stuff coming in and out of the building11 as a matter of right.12 You can do this stuff -- short13 of like a blast furnace, you can do a lot14 of fairly heavy industrial uses onsite.15 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: As a16 matter of right?17

Mr. Kramer

Yes.18 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Thank you.19 No other questions.20

Council President Verna

Thank21 you. The Chair recognizes Councilman22 Greenlee.23

Councilman Greenlee

Thank24 you, Madam President.25 30 12.8.10 - RULES - BILL 1007531 Councilman DiCicco took my one2 question; I was going to ask that.3 But the other one, just so4 I'm -- we are as clear as possible on the5 spot zoning issue that the Council6 President raised, is it basically fair to7 say your answer is that you don't feel8 it's spot zoning 'cause of, first, the9 size of the lot; and also, it is making10 it consistent with the majority of the11 rest of the area. Is that the two12 reasons?13

Mr. Kramer

Yes, sir.14

Councilman Greenlee

'Cause I15 know spot zoning, the word gets thrown16 out a lot. And I know it's -- oftentimes17 size-wise, it's an argument. So it's the18 size and the consistency, I guess.19

Mr. Kramer

Yes, sir.20

Councilman Greenlee

Okay, all21 right. Thank you.22 Thank you, Madam Chair.23

Council President Verna

Thank24 you.25 31 12.8.10 - RULES - BILL 1007531 Any other questions from2 members of the committee?3 (No further questions.)4

Council President Verna

Thank5 you.6 Mr. Kramer, you will remain?7

Mr. Kramer

Yes, ma'am.8

Council President Verna

Thank9 you.10 Our next witness?11

The Clerk

Paul Deegan and12 Kevin Dow from the Commerce Department.13 (Witnesses come forward.)14

Council President Verna

Good15 morning. Please identify yourself for16 the record.17

Mr. Dow

Good morning. My18 name is Kevin Dow. I'm the Chief19 Operating Officer of the Commerce20 Department.21

Mr. Deegan

My name is Paul22 Deegan, Senior Vice President of the23 Philadelphia Industrial Development24 Corporation.25 32 12.8.10 - RULES - BILL 1007531

Council President Verna

Good2 morning.3

Mr. Deegan

Good morning.4

Mr. Dow

Good morning. I'm5 here to testify today regarding Bill No.6 100753.7 Through our Office of8 Businesses Services Division, Commerce9 has been working with Reno Enterprises10 since last spring. Reno contacted us11 when they began experiencing challenges12 related to their relocation and expansion13 of their dialysis center, located in14 Mt. Airy, to Chestnut Hill, located at 1015 East Moreland Avenue.16 The property they would like to17 purchase and renovate has been granted a18 zoning variance to use the G2-classified19 property as a medical treatment facility,20 with a proviso which limits hours on21 Tuesdays, Thursdays, and Saturdays from22 6 a.m. to 6 p.m., rather than the23 standard hours of 6 a.m. to 9 p.m.24 In addition to a number of25 33 12.8.10 - RULES - BILL 1007531 other support letters, Commerce provided2 its own signed by the Deputy Mayor for3 Economic Development.4 The dialysis center is a5 $2 million that will create 756 construction jobs and create and/or7 retain 40 permanent jobs. The Department8 of Commerce supports this resolution --9 excuse me, this bill for three specific10 reasons:11 1. It creates jobs at a time12 when Philadelphia is experiencing one of13 the largest unemployment rates in our14 history.15 2. The center itself will meet16 the high need for our population of17 treatment centers of this nature in a18 location that's convenient and accessible19 by public transportation.20 3. Finally, it augments the21 diversity of the business mix on22 Germantown Avenue through the removal of23 a vacant property and an addition of24 pedestrian traffic that can utilize other25 34 12.8.10 - RULES - BILL 1007531 businesses on the corridor.2 Thank you for your3 consideration of these comments. I would4 be happy to answer any questions any5 members of the committee may have.6

Council President Verna

Thank7 you, Mr. Dow.8 Any questions of Mr. Dow from9 members of the committee?10 (No questions.)11 COUNCIL PRESIDENT VERNA:12 Again, thank you.13

Mr. Dow

Thank you.14

Mr. Deegan

I would like to go15 on record to say that we support the16 Commerce and Planning recommendations.17 We're also providing financing through18 the City's new, innovative Greenworks or19 Energy Works program to the project.20 It's the kind of project we21 particularly like. It's a small22 business, it's neighborhood-oriented, and23 it hits one of the important sectors in24 Philadelphia's economy, the health care,25 35 12.8.10 - RULES - BILL 1007531 health services sector. So we support2 the location and the redevelopment of3 this property with the Delaware Valley4 Nephrology & Hypertension Associates.5 I'd be happy to answer any6 questions you may have.7

Council President Verna

Thank8 you.9 Any questions from the members10 of the committee?11 (No questions.)12

Council President Verna

Thank13 you both very much.14

Mr. Deegan

Thank you, thank15 you.16

Council President Verna

Our17 next witnesses?18

The Clerk

Carl Primavera and19 LaRhonda Jones.20 (Witnesses come forward.)21 COUNCIL PRESIDENT VERNA:22 Mr. Deegan, would you mind returning to23 the witness table. Councilwoman Brown24 has a question.25 36 12.8.10 - RULES - BILL 1007531 (Mr. Deegan returns to witness2 table.)3

Councilwoman Brown

Good4 morning, and thank you for your5 testimony.6

Mr. Deegan

Good morning, good7 morning, Councilwoman.8

Councilwoman Brown

This is9 very much an after-thought.10 Share with us what is your11 standard operating procedure or practice12 as it relates to alerting, interfacing13 with, and informing the community about14 the position that PIDC takes on matters15 like this.16 What is the interface, if at17 all, with the community?18

Mr. Deegan

In this case, in19 the financing deal, I don't think we20 have. I think the community was alerted21 to it initially because of the Zoning22 Board of Adjustment hearing, which had23 posters posted on the property; and also,24 with the zoning bill, which was25 37 12.8.10 - RULES - BILL 1007531 advertised in the paper.2 We do publish a -- the PAID3 board, which approves the loans, has a4 published list of meetings for the whole5 year.6

Councilwoman Brown

Okay.7

Mr. Deegan

But we didn't have8 any direct community contact on this9 particular financing application.10

Councilwoman Brown

Okay,11 then. So is that the standard operating12 procedure?13

Mr. Deegan

Yes, yes,14 Councilwoman, it is, for financings deal.15 Yes, it is.16

Councilwoman Brown

Okay,17 then, very well. Thank you for your18 testimony.19 Thank you, Madam President.20

Council President Verna

Thank21 you.22 Mr. Primavera, good morning.23

Mr. Primavera

Good morning,24 Madam Chair and members of the Rules25 38 12.8.10 - RULES - BILL 1007531 Committee. I am here as the attorney of2 record for the applicant. With me is3 Dr. Edward Jones; also, LaRhonda James.4 LaRhonda has been with5 Fresenius, which is the operator of the6 renal center, for 16 years, at the7 current location, in Mt. Airy. Dr. Jones8 runs the medical component.9 What we really have in this10 renal therapy center is a combination of11 the actual renal treatment, which is12 owned and operated by Fresenius, which13 has 1500 of these throughout the United14 States; they're a multi-billion-dollar15 company based in Europe, with American16 subsidiaries.17 And then we have Dr. Jones, who18 locally is a very esteemed practitioner19 in renal therapy and many hospitals and20 has a long list of achievements. So his21 patients are able to come to the22 facility, receive care and treatment, and23 then also actually receive the renal24 therapy, which you'll hear more about.25 39 12.8.10 - RULES - BILL 1007531 We also have Brett Feldman from2 my office and Mike Malone, the project3 manager. They'll be holding up4 larger-scale exhibits of information5 that's in your package showing what this6 reconditioned industrial building will7 look like when it, in fact, becomes its8 renal center.9 We also have Mr. Sidvah here,10 who's the regional manager for Fresenius.11

Councilman Goode

Madam Chair?12 COUNCIL PRESIDENT VERNA:13 Excuse me, Mr. Primavera.14 Councilman Goode?15 COUNCILMAN GOODE:16 Mr. Primavera --17

Mr. Primavera

Yes.18

Councilman Goode

Does this19 project require an economic opportunity20 plan?21

Mr. Primavera

Yes. And we22 have one signed, which we're happy to23 hand up; it may be in the package. We do24 have it.25 40 12.8.10 - RULES - BILL 1007531 We also exceed the living-wage2 issue; I know that came up recently. And3 we're happy to say we're good on both4 fronts.5

Councilman Goode

Okay, thank6 you.7

Mr. Primavera

You're welcome.8 Basically, there's a little9 history here, which, I think, has been10 more complicating than it needs to be.11 This building has been12 industrial; right now, it's used to store13 Porta-Potties and to clean them inside14 the building. It's been an industrial15 warehouse really adjacent to the Chestnut16 Hill commercial corridor, where we have17 Staples, McDonald's, video stores, a and18 lot of other bakeries and things. So the19 zoning has been really out of context.20 So the easiest and fastest way21 to change the zoning is to go to the22 Zoning Board. So we went to the Zoning23 Board, with the support of the Chestnut24 Hill Community Association that met over25 41 12.8.10 - RULES - BILL 1007531 four months with the developers to make2 sure that they were satisfied as to3 design, landscaping, hours, everything.4 We did receive their support.5 We went to the ZBA; we received6 their support, but then an appeal was7 filed. That appeal could languish for8 three years.9 In the meantime, the existing10 facility that Fresenius and Dr. Jones run11 in Mt. Airy is really -- I don't want to12 say "obsolete," but it's old-school, and13 there's a real pressing need for a14 state-of-the-art facility, and that's why15 they were so excited to move to the16 Chestnut Hill location.17 Fresenius, in addition to18 providing renal care, actually19 manufactures and designs the equipment,20 so this is going to be a showplace for21 them in this region, and they hope over22 the next few years to build at least five23 more in the City.24 So we can't wait for that25 42 12.8.10 - RULES - BILL 1007531 appeal to be resolved. And in many2 instances, we've done this, where we3 think it's faster to go to the Zoning4 Board an it turns out that it's not, so5 then we remap it.6 We've looked hard at the7 spot-zoning issue. Spot-zoning,8 according to Anderson on Zoning, who's9 the number-one writer in Pennsylvania, is10 where you take one small piece and change11 the zoning so it's entirely out of12 context with all of the surrounding13 properties.14 So an example would be, if you15 have a Levittown neighborhood, a thousand16 homes, and in the middle of it, you have17 a Wawa, which happens to be zoned18 commercial; you look at that and say, How19 did that get to be commercial? It kind20 of strikes you as out of character and21 out of context.22 So we believe that remapping is23 entirely appropriate.24 The protestants who you will25 43 12.8.10 - RULES - BILL 1007531 hear from really are concerned about the2 hours on a third shift, which will not3 happen immediately and will be limited,4 but that takes us on Tuesdays, Thursdays,5 and Saturdays to 9 o'clock at night.6 They would like us to close at 6 o'clock.7 But, as you'll hear in the8 testimony, the renal therapy is done in9 four-hour increments. So the reality is10 that if we need to go to a third shift,11 they have to stay till 9 o'clock. So12 it's just the nature of the treatment.13 We have no overnight stays.14 So it's a very benign use.15 And, unfortunately, it's one where the16 need is growing, because as we all live17 longer hopefully, the need for renal18 services and renal therapy is becoming19 more pronounced.20 So that's our testimony.21 We have LaRhonda here, who runs22 the center in Mt. Airy, and we have23 Dr. Jones, who's the medical director, if24 you'd like to hear from them. We know25 44 12.8.10 - RULES - BILL 1007531 there are other witnesses. We have2 patients who are getting therapy, who are3 available to testify. We have Craig4 Shelter, who is both a resident of5 Chestnut Hill and a planner.6 So I don't want to belabor the7 record, but we certainly have a lot more8 to say if you think it's helpful.9

Council President Verna

The10 Chair recognizes Councilman DiCicco.11 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Thank you,12 Madam Chair.13 Good morning, Mr. Primavera.14

Mr. Primavera

Good morning.15 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: The16 Porta-Potty, is that an existing17 business, or is that just a storage area?18

Mr. Primavera

It's a storage.19 The owner is here for the property, and20 he's been trying to sell this property21 for a while. He thought his was a great22 use -- not the Porta-Potty, the renal23 center.24 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: I had a25 45 12.8.10 - RULES - BILL 1007531 question there, but I won't get into2 that.3

Mr. Primavera

It's been over4 a year, so that use is an interim use to5 provide some income to pay the taxes and6 the insurance.7 The other uses that he would be8 looking to sell would be to some type of9 distributor like a -- somebody who comes10 in, uses the warehouse, and then it's11 truck traffic. Matter of fact, his12 broker is Frank Cullen, who's a13 well-known industrial broker.14 And we think that it would be15 unfortunate if this property were to16 become just distribution. You would have17 the rumbling of trucks, open 24/7,18 outdoor storage of material, and it19 really wouldn't help the other20 businesses.21 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: I get22 that. I just was curious about the23 Porta-Potty. If it's in existing use, I24 assume that there are trucks that come25 46 12.8.10 - RULES - BILL 1007531 and go --2

Mr. Primavera

And pick them3 up.4 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: --5 probably any hour of the day.6

Mr. Primavera

Right.7 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: I don't8 know how many there. From the9 photographs, it looks like there's a10 considerable amount, and that's a11 permitted use.12

Mr. Primavera

Right.13 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: So I'm14 just trying to get to the issue.15 I did receive, as the Council16 President said, several e-mails in17 objection to this bill, but sometimes --18

Mr. Primavera

A19 slaughterhouse would be permitted as a --20 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Sometimes21 you have to be careful what you wish for.22

Mr. Primavera

That's exactly23 what I mean.24 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: All right,25 47 12.8.10 - RULES - BILL 1007531 thanks.2

Mr. Primavera

And the owner3 has no desire to be difficult to the4 neighbors, but if this deal doesn't5 happen, it's been a year, and he's going6 to sell to whomever because, you know, he7 needs to --8 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Well,9 that's assuming he gets somebody who's10 interested. I mean, I don't want to use11 that as a threat to the community.12

Mr. Primavera

No.13 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: But the14 reality is that there is potential for15 those kinds of uses.16

Mr. Primavera

Right.17

Mr. Kramer

And there already18 is a use that -- I don't know if I would19 like to live across the street from a20 Porta-Potty warehouse.21 But anyway, thank you.22

Mr. Primavera

Right. Thank23 you.24 COUNCIL PRESIDENT VERNA:25 48 12.8.10 - RULES - BILL 1007531 Dr. Jones, can you tell us the number of2 maximum clients per shift?3

Dr. Jones

Yes.4 First, thank you for the5 opportunity to represent the 170 patients6 that live in the northwest community that7 currently undergo therapy for their8 end-stage kidney disease. So it's a9 privilege to be here.10

Council President Verna

Thank11 you.12

Dr. Jones

Dialysis13 patients -- and dialysis is their ability14 to stay alive -- dialyze for four hours15 at a time, three times a week: Monday,16 Wednesday, and Friday; or Tuesday,17 Thursday and Saturday.18 At any one time, currently,19 there are approximately 32 dialysis20 patients at the Mt. Airy site that get21 dialyzed in that four-hour period of22 time, three times a week.23 On Monday, Wednesday, and24 Friday, a second shift of four hours25 49 12.8.10 - RULES - BILL 1007531 comes into the building, and they're2 staggered; they're not all at one time.3 The 34 patients would come in, the first4 set at 6 o'clock in the morning,5 staggered another 34 patients at6 11 o'clock in the morning; and then,7 after four hours of treatment, again8 staggered the third shift of 34 patients9 come into the dialysis facility for those10 four hours.11 On Tuesday and Thursday,12 currently, there's two shifts that go on:13 Again, 34 patients for four hours; and14 then a second shift of four hours of 3415 patients.16

Council President Verna

And17 on Tuesday and Thursday, what are the18 hours?19

Dr. Jones

On Tuesday,20 Thursday, and Saturday -- that's three21 days a week they get dialyzed, twelve22 hours of week now is the standard of23 care -- the hours currently are from24 6 o'clock in the morning to 6 o'clock in25 50 12.8.10 - RULES - BILL 1007531 the evening.2 The issue -- and one of the3 issues here, to keep it at an appropriate4 level here, because we're trying to5 provide care for patients who need it.6 And dialysis is a local7 problem; it's how they get their care.8 They shouldn't be asked to go miles for9 their care.10 They have four hours of11 treatment, and then they go home; they12 want to go home to their families. Or13 more importantly, particularly the14 evening-shift patient work, pay their15 taxes. Or they also babysit and help16 their children work, and that's why many17 of them need an evening shift.18 But the unfortunate thing right19 now is that the population of dialysis20 patients is growing at a rate of about21 3-and-a-half percent per year; and in22 Philadelphia, PA, it's one of the highest23 in the country.24 And what we don't want is a25 51 12.8.10 - RULES - BILL 1007531 citizen of northwest Philadelphia to get2 kidney failure and need dialysis. And if3 our unit is full on Monday and Tuesday,4 and now we get additional patients in5 Chestnut Hill who need dialysis, am I6 going to ask them from my office to go7 someplace else?8 And what we're asking is to9 open up -- if it happens -- it's not10 there now. But if it would happen, any11 increased growth of patients could be12 accommodated in their neighborhood.13 Dialysis is not a busy, noisy14 thing. Our patients come in, sit down,15 read, watch TV, and talk to each other.16 This dialysis unit was first at17 86 Bethlehem Pike, in Chestnut Hill, a18 commercial and residential neighborhood.19 It currently is in a residential20 neighborhood. We have a very good21 relationship with our neighbors. My22 patient lives across the street from the23 current dialysis unit; he's not24 complaining about noise and why are we25 52 12.8.10 - RULES - BILL 1007531 here or why don't we get out.2 So this is a business that3 takes care of patients, patients who need4 it, state-of-the-art therapy,5 unbelievable quality of care being given6 here.7 And what we're saying is, if8 the possibility exists that the9 population grows and our unit is full,10 then we need to open up on that Tuesday,11 Thursday, Saturday to accommodate those12 patients who live in that community.13

Mr. Primavera

And that would14 take us to 9 o'clock at night.15

Dr. Jones

And that would take16 us to 9 o'clock at night. We have17 consistently said -- and we'll sign a18 binding, legal document -- that we will19 not dialyze after 9 o'clock at night.20

Mr. Primavera

And we have an21 agreement with the community association,22 and their representatives are here to23 that effect.24 So there have been rumors that25 53 12.8.10 - RULES - BILL 1007531 it's 24/7; that's not the case. The2 treatment stops at 9 o'clock at night.3

Council President Verna

Thank4 you.5 Again, I'm going to go back to6 some of the correspondence so that many7 of the questions can be answered.8 How about parking?9

Mr. Primavera

Yes. As you'll10 see from the plan, I believe we have 4311 parking spaces, which is twice what we12 have at the current location.13 Everything happens within our14 property. So whether people come by a15 van or by their own car, they come in to16 the property. We've made arrangements17 with the community association to have a18 single point off -- or actually a19 single-road access so that it won't20 disturb anybody.21 People can come in, they can22 park. If they're waiting for the little23 transportation units, they'll be able to24 do that all within the parking area.25 54 12.8.10 - RULES - BILL 1007531 So we believe that this will be2 excellent in terms of available parking.3 We don't see any need to park on the4 street or to block anybody's traffic or5 to be in any way inconvenient for the6 neighborhood.7

Council President Verna

Thank8 you.9 The Chair recognizes Councilman10 Greenlee.11

Councilman Greenlee

Thank12 you, Madam President.13 If I could just touch on the14 hours thing again, 'cause, again, I want15 to be clear, 'cause it seemed that that16 was the main thing we were hearing.17 And as you said, you -- I know18 on a number of letters, it used the term19 24/7. You're saying you're willing to20 make a written agreement that 9 o'clock21 would be the end of your hours?22

Mr. Primavera

Yes, that's23 correct, Councilman. That was part of24 our agreement with the community25 55 12.8.10 - RULES - BILL 1007531 association. It was debated by the2 association, because the people who are3 here today in opposition wanted it to be4 closed on Tuesday, Thursday, and5 Saturday, at 6 o'clock at night.6 And Dr. Jones explained that we7 need to have that extra capacity. So the8 community association supported us in9 that. But we do have an agreement with10 them, and we are signing an agreement11 with anybody.12 I told some of the protestants,13 through their attorney, that we'd be14 happy to give them their own agreement if15 they are not willing to accept the16 community association agreement.17 But we have no interest, no18 desire to go beyond 9 o'clock at night,19 and we are legally bound by that.20 And also, quite frankly, it's21 the business model that both Dr. Jones22 and Fresenius have. We hear other23 companies do run night shifts; that's not24 the model that we have, and that's not25 56 12.8.10 - RULES - BILL 1007531 where we want to be.2

Councilman Greenlee

So even3 though the zoning might allow that, you4 you'd be willing to limit it.5

Mr. Primavera

Yes.6

Councilman Greenlee

And I7 know one of the concerns that I heard was8 that people -- ambulances would be coming9 in at 1 o'clock in the morning or10 something like that.11

Mr. Primavera

No.12

Councilman Greenlee

They13 would not be there to have that, right?14

Mr. Primavera

No. And15 also -- well, Doctor, you can --16 ambulances don't really come to a renal17 center.18

Councilman Greenlee

Right,19 okay. That's what I was going to ask.20

Dr. Jones

Let me clarify21 that.22 It's not annual an emergency23 procedure.24

Councilman Greenlee

Right.25 57 12.8.10 - RULES - BILL 1007531

Dr. Jones

I mean, emergency2 procedures go to the hospital. If we3 have anybody who we even think is sick4 and they call LaRhonda, we send them to5 the hospital because it's not built, nor6 is the manpower there to take care of7 emergencies.8 There are a small number of9 ambulances that do come. One-third of10 our patients drive, one-third get11 delivered by CCT or Paratransit, a few12 will have an ambulance.13 And one of the concerns,14 appropriately was that when an ambulance15 backs up, it makes a lot of noise, or the16 dieseling. The way the parking lot is17 built, that allows for the CCT and the18 ambulance to circle around as opposed to19 what it -- you know, now in Mt. Airy,20 it's not good because it's a small lot,21 and they can't get in and out.22 So this is not an emergency23 facility where a lot of ambulances are24 coming to; it's a few. And usually it's25 58 12.8.10 - RULES - BILL 1007531 a patient that recently was in the2 hospital, and until they get a little3 better, they may need a recliner.4

Councilman Greenlee

Plus it5 would be in the hours that we just --6

Dr. Jones

It's only till7 9 o'clock.8 And, again, we will, both from9 a physician point of view, as a medical10 director, and Fresenius will legally sign11 that.12 And, remember, as a practicing13 physician, I don't want a phone call14 after 9 o'clock at night, you know? I15 don't want a phone call on Saturday night16 after 9 o'clock. I don't want a shift17 after those hours, you know.18 So we don't want it, as19 physicians who take care of the patients;20 the patients and staff want it. And21 Fresenius's model, at least in our22 facilities, is not to dialyze at that23 time of night.24

Councilman Greenlee

One last25 59 12.8.10 - RULES - BILL 1007531 question, if I could.2 Mr. Primavera, on the whole3 Zoning Board scenario, if you will, I4 know, again, the other thing that has5 been raised a lot was the process of how6 it happened. There was an original7 decision, then it was reconsidered.8 Could you talk about that and9 talk about whether that is an unusual10 situation or how it came about, that kind11 of thing, please.12

Mr. Primavera

Yes.13 The hearing at the Zoning14 Board -- you know, the Zoning Board hears15 30 cases a day. So I think what happened16 was, some of the confusion over the17 hours -- 'cause they are confusing --18 resulted in the Zoning Board approving19 the center but limiting the hours on20 Tuesday, Thursday, and Saturday to 621 o'clock at night.22 I sent a letter of23 reconsideration explaining how we needed24 that additional time. Attached to the25 60 12.8.10 - RULES - BILL 1007531 letter were letters from PIDC, Commerce,2 and the Planning Commission in support of3 that.4 I sent copies to everybody who5 entered an appearance. We had 30 people.6 Many of the people who entered an7 appearance at the Zoning Board all8 received copies of that request.9 The Zoning Board granted the10 request, but for a reason best known to11 the Zoning Board, they didn't contain the12 hours that I requested; they just removed13 the entire proviso.14 My only suspicion is, they15 said, Look, since you have an agreement16 with the Chestnut Hill Community17 Association, which is a private18 agreement, we're not going to get into19 the hours. I think that that created20 some concern.21 When Dan McElhatton, who's the22 attorney for at least two of the23 neighbors who are concerned, contacted24 me, I told him that I would be willing to25 61 12.8.10 - RULES - BILL 1007531 stipulate to put the hours back in the2 zoning decision so the Zoning Board would3 ratify the hours that we seek now.4 We tried everything possible to5 reach some accommodation with the people6 who were concerned. And if, in fact,7 that process made them skeptical, I'm8 sorry for it, but it was above-board in9 the sense that reconsideration is done10 generally; and second of all, everybody11 who was at the Zoning Board was copied on12 my request.13 So it wasn't as though they14 woke up one day and were surprised by how15 this happened.16

Councilman Greenlee

I think17 that's the thing, the reconsider -- you18 said reconsideration is done generally.19 You do obviously a lot of zoning stuff.20

Mr. Primavera

Yes.21

Councilman Greenlee

What -- I22 mean, how often do you do that as an23 attorney? I mean, what --24

Mr. Primavera

I would say 1525 62 12.8.10 - RULES - BILL 1007531 to 20 percent of the cases.2 Typically what happens is this:3 Typically, the Zoning Board will approve4 the case, and somebody forgot to add to5 the sign. So what we do, is we'll send a6 letter back to the Zoning Board saying,7 Can you please approve the use but also8 now this sign? 'cause otherwise, we'd9 have to go back for a whole new zoning10 case for just the sign.11

Councilman Greenlee

Mm-hmm.12

Mr. Primavera

Or sometimes13 the Zoning Board forgets to include some14 other stipulations, or that there has15 been a change in what's happening. Maybe16 the restaurant is going from 6,000 square17 feet to 4,000, or vice-versa.18 So it's typically used not to19 basically change the decision yes or no,20 although that's happened too, but it's21 basically done to modify the decision,22 either to clarify a mistake that's been23 made or to give them a chance to24 reconsider some aspect of what they25 63 12.8.10 - RULES - BILL 1007531 approved.2

Councilman Greenlee

And it's3 done without any other hearing.4

Mr. Primavera

No, no.5 Typically it's not.6

Councilman Greenlee

Mm-hmm.7

Mr. Primavera

If they want8 to, if it's a big enough change, they9 could invite everyone back. But10 typically, they figure after you hear one11 of these cases, you know what's going on,12 and they're able to decide whether they13 want to modify it or not, without a14 second round of hearings.15 As a matter of fact, if you16 have a second round of hearing, then17 people are going to bring more issues up.18 You kind of --19

Councilman Greenlee

Right.20

Mr. Primavera

It never gets21 resolved. So typically, the board does22 not have a hearing on reconsideration.23

Councilman Greenlee

Okay,24 thank you.25 64 12.8.10 - RULES - BILL 1007531

Council President Verna

Thank2 you.3 The Chair recognizes Councilman4 DiCicco.5 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: I think6 Councilwoman Brown had her light on7 first.8

Council President Verna

Oh,9 Councilwoman Brown.10

Councilwoman Brown

Thank you,11 Madam President. Thank you, Councilman.12 Councilman Bill Greenlee13 touched on the notion of support. You14 stated in your testimony that there was15 support, so my follow-up question was:16 Was there support in writing? And the17 answer is yes.18

Mr. Primavera

Yes, it was.19

Councilwoman Brown

Okay. I20 just learned, looking at testimony up21 here, that there are a number of --22 support came from -- just for the record,23 did it come from the Chestnut Hill24 Community Association, the Chestnut Hill25 65 12.8.10 - RULES - BILL 1007531 Residents Association, or the Chestnut2 Hill Historical Society? Which?3

Mr. Primavera

The community4 association.5

Councilwoman Brown

The6 Chestnut Hill Community Association.7

Mr. Primavera

Yes, that's8 correct. And the historic, I'm told.9

Councilwoman Brown

And the10 historic?11

Mr. Primavera

And the12 historic.13

Councilwoman Brown

Okay.14

Mr. Primavera

I wasn't aware15 of that, but I'm told that they also16 approved it.17

Councilwoman Brown

Are they18 on record as supporting it?19

Mr. Primavera

Yes.20

Councilwoman Brown

Would it21 be fair to say, then, that this22 modification has led now to a23 misunderstanding and/or a divide with24 regards to the -- I won't use the word25 66 12.8.10 - RULES - BILL 1007531 "inability" but the challenge to come to2 come common ground?3

Mr. Primavera

Well, I think4 that there's been some recent history.5 The community association has6 been around forever, and it has a very7 elaborate process. You'll hear from8 them. As a matter of fact, some might9 say it's too elaborate. You have to go10 through a landscape committee, a traffic11 committee, an esthetic committee, a use12 cheat.13 And being in Chestnut Hill, we14 have architects and engineers and lawyers15 galore, so they monopolize these16 committees. So it's a very belabored17 process, but maybe that's why people feel18 confident that it does a good job.19

Councilwoman Brown

Sure.20

Mr. Primavera

Because of some21 dissension with a few residents who22 didn't win seats on the community23 association, there's a movement to create24 a splinter group, and they want to be25 67 12.8.10 - RULES - BILL 1007531 against anything the association is for.2

Councilwoman Brown

I see.3

Mr. Primavera

So we're having4 that.5 The community association feels6 that its years and years of proven7 service and its standing in the8 community -- and it represents residents,9 businesses, institutions --10

Councilwoman Brown

I see,11 okay.12

Mr. Primavera

-- that they13 have to hold the line and say, We're not14 going to let a runt group or a splinter15 group divide our community so that we16 lose what we have.17

Councilwoman Brown

Mm-hmm.18

Mr. Primavera

So that's19 what's really going on here because it's20 not about three hours; it's about control21 and it's about politics, you know,22 neighborhood politics.23 And it's about people who, you24 know, have -- the last case they opposed25 68 12.8.10 - RULES - BILL 1007531 they -- you probably saw it in the paper.2 A lady had a little grocery store that3 was wonderful, and she had takeout4 coffee, and they closed her down because5 they didn't want the takeout coffee.6

Councilwoman Brown

And the7 "they" would be the Chestnut Hill8 Residents Association?9

Mr. Primavera

Yes.10

Councilwoman Brown

Okay.11

Mr. Primavera

So that's what12 we're dealing with here.13 So there's always the big14 picture, which we're talking about; and15 then there's the little picture, which16 is, you know, people's agendas.17

Councilwoman Brown

Mm-hmm.18 Did this revelation of facts, as you just19 described it, reveal itself during the20 zoning hearing process?21

Mr. Primavera

I think it22 started back with the community23 association process, where there were24 four or six meetings of the community25 69 12.8.10 - RULES - BILL 1007531 association, and there was a certain2 group of people who couldn't find a way3 to get onboard with the larger4 association.5 They then went to the Zoning6 Board and said, Well, we don't want the7 community association to speak for us.8 They then filed an appeal to the Zoning9 Board.10

Councilwoman Brown

I see.11

Mr. Primavera

And now, they12 came to the Planning Commission, two or13 three of them, and now they're here14 today.15 So it's an ongoing struggle for16 what they believe is the proper voice.17 We clearly believe that the association,18 the Chestnut Hill Community Association,19 has been the voice for years.20 And, you know, if you want to21 be on the voice, you got to run and you22 got to win. If you lose and you can't23 get a seat on that board, I don't think24 you take your bat and ball and go home; I25 70 12.8.10 - RULES - BILL 1007531 think you just run again next year, and2 you spend more time convincing people3 that your view is the right view. You4 don't create your own association.5

Councilwoman Brown

Okay. And6 so then, for a restatement of the facts7 so that I get it, the Chestnut Hill8 Community Association supports it.9

Mr. Primavera

Yes.10

Councilwoman Brown

The11 Chestnut Hill Historical Society supports12 it.13

Mr. Primavera

Yes.14

Councilwoman Brown

It's been15 approved by the Planning Commission?16

Mr. Primavera

Yes.17

Councilwoman Brown

And --18

Mr. Primavera

And the zoning19 Board.20

Councilwoman Brown

And the21 Zoning Board.22

Mr. Primavera

And Commerce23 and PIDC.24

Councilwoman Brown

Okay, all25 71 12.8.10 - RULES - BILL 1007531 right then.2

Mr. Primavera

As a matter of3 fact, we can't think of any constituency4 or group that's not in support of it5 other than the people you'll hear from6 today who describe themselves as "The7 Residents Association."8

Councilwoman Brown

Okay,9 then. Thank you for your testimony.10

Mr. Primavera

Thank you,11 Councilwoman.12

Councilwoman Brown

Thank you.13

Council President Verna

Thank14 you.15 The Chair recognizes Councilman16 DiCicco.17 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Thank you,18 Madam Chair.19 Good morning again.20 I want to get back to the21 parking issue. On the chart here, it22 shows 42 spaces. I believe it was23 testified to that 10 percent or 1224 percent, was it, of the patients arrive25 72 12.8.10 - RULES - BILL 1007531 by private vehicle on average?2

Dr. Jones

About a third.3 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: A third,4 I'm sorry, a third. So it would be about5 12, roughly 12 vehicles.6

Dr. Jones

Yes.7 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: How many8 of the 40 permanent employees would be on9 -- are they shift work, or are you going10 to have 40 maximum at anytime, or would11 there be less than 40?12

Dr. Jones

There are variable13 periods of time. The doctors may come14 and go the, social worker may come and15 go.16 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Give me a17 make number at any one given time of the18 number of employees --19

Dr. Jones

I'm being told 22.20 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Okay, 22.21 So that gives us 34. If every employee22 came to work by vehicle, you'd have 34 of23 the 42 spaces --24

Dr. Jones

Yes.25 73 12.8.10 - RULES - BILL 1007531 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: -- taken2 up between patients and employees,3 correct?4

Dr. Jones

Correct.5 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: All right.6

Dr. Jones

And I think it may7 have been in the handout.8 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Roughly.9 I'm just using rough numbers.10

Dr. Jones

Yes.11 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: All right.12 That could obviously go up and down, but13 you're still within at least eight to ten14 spaces that would be still available if15 you maxed out on employees and the16 one-third of the patients.17

Dr. Jones

Yes.18 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Also, I19 notice that you have a lot of20 improvements in terms of greening. Is21 there, or will there be, any lighting22 attached to the building or pedestrian23 lighting that would light up the24 perimeter of the property in this plan?25 74 12.8.10 - RULES - BILL 1007531

Mr. Primavera

I'm going to2 ask Mike Malone just to come up3 because --4

Dr. Jones

Mike is the project5 manager.6

Mr. Primavera

(Inaudible,7 off-mic).8 ... with the community9 association, too.10 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Thanks.11 (Witness comes forward.)12

Mr. Malone

Yes. And Carl13 just testified --14 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Identify15 yourself for the record, please.16

Mr. Malone

Michael Malone.17 We do have lighting in the18 parking lot; there are several poles. So19 the parking lot will be lit.20 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: I'm21 talking about the perimeter of the22 building, on the face of the building or23 on the sidewalk.24

Mr. Malone

I do not believe25 75 12.8.10 - RULES - BILL 1007531 that there is lighting planned for the2 perimeter of the building. And, you3 know, that was one of the things that was4 discussed at the community association.5 I don't think that the neighbors wanted6 to look at lights at night.7 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Well, I8 would think the opposite. I would think9 they'd want it lit because right now what10 you have is a very dark warehouse. I11 would think that some sort of lighting12 either washing the wall or the side, but13 I'm not talking about a fence of14 lighting.15 COUNCIL PRESIDENT VERNA:16 Dr. Jones, I think you want to add17 something?18

Dr. Jones

Thank you, Madam19 President.20 Yes. I don't know whether you21 know much about the Chestnut Hill22 Association, but we have gone through23 five meetings over the last -- since24 February 14th, lengthy meetings and have25 76 12.8.10 - RULES - BILL 1007531 worked closely with the association to2 work on the building and what the3 building looks like, what the lighting4 will be, what the inside lighting will5 be.6 So we will work with the7 community in all of these efforts to make8 sure the building is appropriate for the9 community. We will landscape it. And10 we've even volunteered to put a committee11 together that would include the12 physicians, Fresenius, and the community13 to help oversee what goes on. On the14 parking, if it's an issue, we'll get15 those things resolved.16 But the lighting piece, we will17 follow the lead and work with the18 association, where there are a lot of19 architects and folks on those committees.20

Mr. Malone

And I was just21 given the Chestnut Hill document, the22 community association document. And one23 of the things that we need to submit24 before construction is the lighting plan25 77 12.8.10 - RULES - BILL 1007531 for their review and comment.2 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: The other3 --4