Madam5 President.6 COUNCIL PRESIDENT VERNA:7 Councilman DiCicco.8 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: The other9 question, the community benefits10 agreement, Mr. Primavera, is there one in11 place, you said, or is that still a work12 if progress?13
No, there's a14 community agreement. It was prepared --15 and you'll here from Mr. Walter Sullivan16 and Larry McEwen, and it's in our17 package, 11A. And it goes through most18 of the issues that were discussed in the19 various committees and subcommittees of20 the Chestnut Hill Community Association.21 So it's in the letter format.22 And then it says, "May 27, 201023 Conditions for CHCA Support." And it's24 between Mr. Sullivan, who's the president25 78 12.8.10 - RULES - BILL 1007531 of the association, and actually Mike2 Malone.3 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Okay. I4 don't need the details; I just want to5 make sure that there's some work in6 progress.7
There are,8 like, 20 issues, and it's all the usual9 things: materials; colors; mechanical10 equipment being disguised so that you11 don't look at a vent; window treatment,12 shades preferred. It will get pretty13 detailed.14 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Okay.15
As a matter of16 fact, there was even concerns about17 fluorescent lights. People don't want to18 look in and see what looks like hospital19 lighting. So it's going to get pretty20 detailed as we go.21 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Okay. If22 you decide to expand, Doctor, let me23 know. I have some places in my district24 that would be more than welcome to25 79 12.8.10 - RULES - BILL 1007531 support you. Plus I need to create some2 work for my friends from 989, you know,3 electrical work and stuff like that.4 (Laughter.)5
And one8 of the other, I think, good features is9 that the company has decided to put up10 video surveillance cameras.11
Yes, that's12 correct. That came up in our13 discussions. And I know Councilman Rizzo14 also mentioned that.15 So we'll have them. They'll be16 discreet because we don't want it to look17 foreboding, but I think it's a good idea18 both for the safety of the community and19 for the employees.20 And LaRhonda was in on that21 discussions, and she says, Fine, you22 know, that works for us.23
Okay.24 And one other thing I would just like to25 80 12.8.10 - RULES - BILL 1007531 add before we bring other folks up is2 that right now, where they're located in3 Mt. Airy, it really causes a big sort of4 traffic issue and parking issue.5 So with this off-street6 parking, it really will help. Relocating7 from Mt. Air to this new site will really8 help with the parking issues on that9 particular block.10
We're11 fortunate, Councilwoman. I mean, it's12 rare in Chestnut Hill -- and you know it13 'cause you drive it all the time -- to14 have a parking lot that big that's close15 to Germantown Avenue.16
The only18 parking lots that really are available19 are run by the community association, and20 they're shared by all the businesses.21 But this is a freestanding lot soley for22 this center, which is really a home run.23 Also, people can walk from here24 to McDonald's, to Staples, to the Sin Sin25 81 12.8.10 - RULES - BILL 1007531 restaurant, so it's going to help the2 local businesspeople. And it's just very3 convenient.4 So, really, we think taking it5 from the Porta-Potty place -- and, look,6 that needs to exist somewhere but it7 doesn't need to exist right off of8 Germantown Avenue in Chestnut Hill.9 And this is something that is10 not only an improvement of the building,11 but it's a need that's growing. We have12 a lot of seniors in the area, as you13 know. And, unfortunately, as the doctor14 said, the demand is going to continue to15 grow.16 And, hopefully, at some point,17 they're looking for other facilities. So18 that's one of the reasons they don't want19 to go beyond 9 o'clock, because they20 always want to build the next facility.21 If there's enough demand, they'd rather22 have a new facility in addition to what23 they have rather than trying to operate24 overextended hours in a single location.25 82 12.8.10 - RULES - BILL 1007531
Thank5 you.6 The Chair recognizes Councilman7 Rizzo.8
First, I'm a14 resident of Chestnut Hill. Second, I15 served as an elected member of the board16 of the Chestnut Hill Community17 Association, so I know your pain,18 counselor, when it comes to process.19 But, again, I -- you also said20 that it's respected because of their21 thoroughness. And we in the community22 appreciate their hard work.23
One of the25 83 12.8.10 - RULES - BILL 1007531 things that I appreciate, 'cause it was2 my suggestion to Council Lady Miller,3 that cameras be installed. As you know,4 they're very effective not to just5 protect the patients and the employees6 but also your property. So I appreciate7 the fact that you've accepted my8 suggestion on that.9 The other suggestion that I10 have is that even though you have the11 circular driveway that we all know and12 have been exposed to backup alarms, which13 these vehicles have. There needs to be14 consideration so that at o'clock at15 night, o'clock at night, when children16 are put to sleep, that vehicles use every17 effort to not have those alarms sound.18 And then there are devices that can, on a19 particular cycle of reverse, stop those20 alarms from operating at least on that21 one cycle. And I understand that that22 should be at a minimum because of the23 configuration of the drop-off point.24 And the other thing is, you did25 84 12.8.10 - RULES - BILL 1007531 mention something that just got my2 attention. I would hope that the parking3 lot would be secured and not be able to4 be used by the people after the operating5 hours of the facility to go to other6 venues, because, again, I think that7 could develop into a problem for the near8 residents of the facility.9 I spent a half hour there10 yesterday, and the building is in very,11 very dis -- it's in disrepair. And the12 quicker it gets rehabbed, the better.13 And I believe that the input14 that you're going to get to make that15 building fit into the community is16 appreciated by me as a resident and also17 as a councilmember at-large.18 So I look forward to you doing19 what you need to do there, but I would20 hope that you could address the vehicles21 that are going to be used and that there22 isn't a nuisance in the community.23
Dr. Jones says24 he has information on that.25 85 12.8.10 - RULES - BILL 1007531 COUNCIL PRESIDENT VERNA:2 Doctor?3
Thank you.4 Councilman Rizzo, thank you.5 Just to give you some context6 again, when we dialyze patients in the7 evening, they are the most stable8 patients that we deal with.9 And when you look at the10 ambulances, those who do come by11 ambulance are more likely in the daytime.12 So it's unusual to see it in the evening13 period of time; there might be one.14 But we'll be, again, attentive15 to this in, you know, our concern about16 the neighbors' issues. We want to be17 good neighbors, so we will work with the18 neighbors. And if those issues come up,19 we'll address them with the ambulance.20 We have a full-time social21 worker who has very good relationships22 with the ambulance companies, CCT and23 Paratransit, and is constantly on the24 phone with them, and she will help work25 86 12.8.10 - RULES - BILL 1007531 in that regard.2
If, on a3 Sunday morning, at 7:00 a.m., you've ever4 been sleeping and been awaken by a backup5 alarm, you can understand people not6 being happy.7 The other question I have:8 Will the building -- not that I'm9 suggesting that it be open to the10 community, but if there was a need for a11 conference room for a community meeting12 or something like that, would you extend13 that offer to the community to use the14 facility for appropriate meetings that15 might come up that affect the community?16
There will be a17 conference room; it's not very large.18 But, again, we want to be good neighbors.19 We'll work with the neighborhood20 association, and if that's something21 possible that we can work out, we'd be22 attentive to that.23
Terrific.24 Good luck.25 87 12.8.10 - RULES - BILL 1007531
Thank6 you.7 The Chair recognizes8 Councilwoman Brown.9
Thank you,10 Madam Chair.11 A follow-up question on the12 hours. Is it customary for medical13 facilities like this to have those hours,14 as described?15
That's pretty much16 the state of the care throughout the17 country. Many places are opening up on18 Tuesday, Thursday permanently. But the19 standard of care in the Delaware Valley20 is three shifts: 6 o'clock in the21 morning to 9 o'clock on Monday,22 Wednesday, and Friday; and the 6 to 6 on23 Tuesday, Thursday, and Saturday. That's24 standard.25 88 12.8.10 - RULES - BILL 1007531
Okay.2 Thank you.3 And no way to mischaracterize4 this challenge that you're facing, but is5 this wrinkle unprecedented?6
We had that9 conversation yesterday. Mike does this10 all over the country, I'm told.11
Mike,14 please identify yourself for the record.15
Michael Malone.16 I'm involved in the approval17 process in several of these and elsewhere18 in Pennsylvania and in New Jersey and in19 Oklahoma.20 And, typically, they are21 welcomed in communities as a much-needed22 health care service and receive the23 support of the community. I mean, all of24 the issues that we addressed with the25 89 12.8.10 - RULES - BILL 1007531 Chestnut Hill Community Association are2 typically addressed. But at the end of3 the day, it's considered an inherently4 beneficial use and fairly benign in terms5 of traffic.6 COUNCILWOMAN BROWN:7 Demographics. Have you done the study or8 the back homework that drives the9 decision that a facility at this location10 indeed becomes beneficial for those11 citizens, residents, patients, period? I12 mean, because you mentioned that many of13 those in that part of the world may have14 to travel X-number of miles to some other15 location.16 So do you have demographics17 that say to you, Yes, a location like --18 a facility like this in this location19 will be needed but just based on need?20
Yes, Councilwoman21 Brown. We have done that. We've got22 details of the numbers of patients that23 have end-stage kidney disease in each of24 the zip codes that are there.25 90 12.8.10 - RULES - BILL 1007531 And, again, in northwest2 Philadelphia, there's a high penetrance,3 unfortunately, of patients with end-stage4 renal disease.5
But we know the7 number of patients in each one of the zip8 codes, and that's why this area is an9 ideal location for a dialysis community.10
I think the12 doctor's affiliated with Chestnut Hill13 Hospital.14
Yes. I'm the head15 of the Department of Nephrology at16 Chestnut Hill Hospital. I formerly was17 Chairman of Medicine at Germantown18 Hospital, which, unfortunately, doesn't19 exist.20 But I've been in the community21 for 30 years.22
Okay.23 That's important testimony as well.24 Thank you.25 91 12.8.10 - RULES - BILL 1007531 Thank you, Madam President.2 COUNCIL PRESIDENT VERNA:3 You're welcome.4 Dr. Jones, in the event that5 you cannot find any location in6 Councilman DiCicco's district, you're7 also more than welcome to come into mine.8
Thank you.9 COUNCIL PRESIDENT VERNA:10 LaRhonda, do you have anything to add to11 the testimony?12
No, ma'am. I was13 here in case you guys had any questions14 for me.15
Okay,16 thank you.17 The Chair recognizes Councilman18 Kelly.19
Thank you,20 Madam Chair.21 Dr. Jones, I just want to22 commend you for the work that you've been23 doing to help these poor people who have24 this disastrous affliction. And I know25 92 12.8.10 - RULES - BILL 1007531 of many people -- I know a few people who2 need this service. And by you providing3 this service up into that community, I4 think, is a plus. I know that most of my5 Council colleagues have people who6 probably have the same affliction and the7 same services that they need.8 And I just want to commend you9 and, of course, your counselor and10 everyone else who has tried to do11 whatever they can to make sure that this12 service is put into this community.13 Okay, thank you.14
Thank you.15 And LaRhonda is one of the16 major reasons why this facility has won17 national awards for the quality of care18 that it delivers for the patients,19 national awards.20 COUNCIL PRESIDENT VERNA:21 Wonderful.22
Thank24 you.25 93 12.8.10 - RULES - BILL 1007531 Our next panel?2
Current dialysis3 patient, Louis Incognito.4 (Witness comes forward.)5
Good morning.8 COUNCIL PRESIDENT VERNA:9 Please identify yourself for the record.10
My name is11 Louis J. Incognito, and I am a dialysis12 patient in Mt. Airy right now.13
Did14 you want to testify on this bill, or are15 you in favor?16
Are18 you in favor of the bill before us this19 morning?20
Am I in favor21 of the moving of the building?22 COUNCIL PRESIDENT VERNA:23 Mm-hmm.24
Yes. Both are25 94 12.8.10 - RULES - BILL 1007531 close to our home. We live in Mt. Airy.2 And the other building, the3 building we're about to move in, if it's4 approved, and we hope it is, we'll have5 much better parking.6 And I think that it will be7 another plus. I think it's an asset to8 Mt. Airy, and it will be an asset to9 wherever this operation goes.10
Thank11 you.12 Any questions?13 (No questions.)14
Community20 Association: Walter Sullivan, Rob Remus21 and Larry McEwen.22 (Witnesses come forward.)23
Good morning,24 Council President and members of Council.25 95 12.8.10 - RULES - BILL 1007531
4 Sullivan. I am the president, and I've5 been privileged to be for almost two6 years, of the Chestnut Hill Community7 Association. 10 For well more than 60 years, we11 have been the authentic representative of12 the people of Chestnut Hill. We13 represent and serve them. 16 Now, we have -- let me say17 incidentally, and this is only18 incidentally -- that I am a dialysis19 patient. 24 The place in Mt. 10 - RULES - BILL 1007531 fine place, but it's old, there are2 problems, and there sure as heck are3 problems with parking. If I were from4 Chestnut Hill and I were wondering about5 the place coming into Chestnut Hill, and6 I took a ride down to Mt. 11 The Chestnut Hill Community12 Association, over decades, has developed13 a review process. There are a number of14 committees. 7 Where appropriate, the traffic,8 transportation, and parking committee9 reviews the matter. Where appropriate,10 the esthetics committee reviews the11 matter. 15 This process in this instance16 took a number of weeks, and Mr. McEwen17 can detail it. But every one of these18 meetings was published. We want the19 public to come to the meetings. 23 And some of them did come. 10 - RULES - BILL 1007531 the end of all this -- we felt we were a2 little bit blind-sided -- that there were3 petitions and all kinds of things. 10 Now, they were okay with a11 third shift until about 9 o'clock on12 Monday, Wednesday, and Friday, and they13 didn't want one on Tuesday, Thursday, and14 Saturday. 15 But, in any event, we represent16 folks. So if the developer had been able17 to live with that, we would have added18 that condition, even though it doesn't19 make in my mind a particle of sense. 4 And the -- we have a concern5 when there are neighbors who don't agree6 with the decisions we make 'cause we7 represent all of the people of Chestnut8 Hill. But we have to call it as we see9 it. 13 And it is because the place14 looks like -- the place is not appealing,15 as Councilman Rizzo has pointed out. 20
Thank21 you. Thank you, Mr. 22 MR. McEWAN: My name is Larry23 McEwen. 11 This particular issue was12 brought to us mid-February. 17 There were -- we review a18 number of things running from the19 architectural design and, in this case,20 the renovation proposal relative to the21 historical property, the Willet Stained22 Glass studio, which was of interest to23 the historical society. 14 Traffic. 16 That Winston Road, I think the daily17 traffic is 1200 cars. One block over on18 Germantown Avenue, the daily traffic is19 12,000 cars, same road width. 10 - RULES - BILL 1007531 Public safety was the second2 one. 10 The third issue was hours of11 operation. m. 10 - RULES - BILL 1007531 to that. 9 We then looked at the10 operation. We felt that the operation is11 very internalized to the building in12 terms of the work itself, that the13 traffic is actually -- we felt that this14 lot actually is ideal for the traffic15 because it does allow for the vans to be16 stored on the property, not on the17 street. 10 - RULES - BILL 1007531 community to have the building restored2 in this manner that they proposed. 10
Excuse me. My name16 is Rob Remus, and I'm a director on the17 Chestnut Hill Community Association. I18 also serve on the executive board. I'm19 also a nearby neighbor who lives and20 works in the immediate area. I've lived21 in Chestnut Hill for 11 years.22 I live about a block away, me23 and my family, but I do work right across24 the street from the dialysis center. And25 105 12.8.10 - RULES - BILL 1007531 for the last three years, I have been2 appalled by the look of the building.3 Having known the previous4 owners of the building and the previous5 operator of the building, I was very6 vocal to him on some of the matters that7 were concerning me and my family, of8 which I was concerned of the exterior9 look of the building because I understand10 it's a very limited use and it has some11 really archaic windows. And, you know, I12 usually notified him when windows were13 broken.14 But routinely, there was broken15 glass on the sidewalk, there was16 McDonald's bags of food dropped off by17 contractors, there was contractors'18 trucks parked on the sidewalk, diesel19 trucks running. And I had to maneuver20 around these things as well as my kids.21 So I was very concerned when I22 understood that this building was to be23 converted from G-2 into another use.24 I am very much for this. I do25 106 12.8.10 - RULES - BILL 1007531 not want to see another -- I would not2 like to see another G-2 use of this3 property. The Porta-Potties are4 horrible, but at least there's -- nobody5 sleeping on the sidewalks in pickup6 trucks, as far as I'm concerned.7 So I've been to almost every8 meeting from the DRC to the historical9 meetings to every community association10 meeting with this matter. I have read11 the details, I have studied them. I have12 studied the company Fresenius. I have13 forwarded it on to colleagues and my14 neighbors. I have met with my neighbors15 on three or four separate occasions as16 frequently as -- excuse me, as recently17 as last Sunday, to address some18 questions.19 And one of the points I want to20 make is, I'm often shocked on how little21 we talk about the various facts versus22 what we hear as rumors. I try to address23 them as best as I can, and I go on from24 there.25 107 12.8.10 - RULES - BILL 1007531 So that's pretty much my2 opinion of the situation.3 People have asked me, am I4 happy about a dialysis center moving down5 the street from me? I don't have anyone6 in my family that suffers that needs to7 be dialyzed. I would very much love to8 see that entire block be beautiful homes,9 but that's not in the cards.10 I am very happy to see that11 building converted into the dialysis use12 and to Fresenius's use and Dr. Jones.13 So I still stand by that.14
Thank15 you.16 Hello, welcome. Good to have17 you back.18
Good morning,19 Madam President. Craig Shelter. It's a20 delight to be back before you and the21 committee. It's been quite frankly.22 I'm here this morning both as a23 42-year resident of Chestnut Hill, and I24 was also hired by the developer in this25 108 12.8.10 - RULES - BILL 1007531 situation to make testimony before the2 Zoning Board regarding the history of how3 this site got zoned.4 I've also been recently asked5 by the community president to serve on a6 negotiating committee of the civic7 association, dealing with an expansion8 plan for Chestnut Hill College.9 And in my years at the City10 Planning Commission, I was the deputy11 director when all four quadrants of12 Chestnut Hill were rezoned.13 So I think I've brought a lot14 of institutional memory to the situation.15 I point out here that I think16 this is probably the best win/win I've17 seen of a reuse of an industrial property18 in the City. And I say this, having19 spent 19 years at PIDC and 10 years as a20 private consultant.21 And what usually happens with22 industrial properties like this is, you23 will get successive users there, as we24 did in Chestnut Hill. When Willet25 109 12.8.10 - RULES - BILL 1007531 Stained Glass left and Curtis Roofing2 came in, it was an industrial use; it3 wasn't a terrible use, but there wasn't4 sufficient income from that business to5 really fix it up.6 So the idea to have somebody7 come into this building and fix it up in8 a way where the exterior got improved,9 where the parking got improved, where10 then the access to the site is easy for.11 Five years of my 42 years, I12 lived one block away, on 7910 Winston13 Road. And the thing we worried about as14 neighbors was the fact that it's the15 widest commercial Street in Chestnut Hill16 and was a speedway. So the fact that17 there's easy access in and out, I think,18 is a given.19 Also, the fact that when you go20 pull into this facility, the wall of the21 existing building shields noise from22 going further to the northwest, where23 more of the neighbors are.24 So the question was then: What25 110 12.8.10 - RULES - BILL 1007531 was the original zoning on this site?2 And this went back to February of 1977.3 It was Bill 342. And that was a rezoning4 that was done in coordination with the5 civic association and the Planning6 Commission.7 And at the time, the idea was8 to keep the businesses in place, keep9 them happy, keep jobs in the City, and10 so, it's why the area -- why that was11 zoned G-2.12 The area right next door to it13 is Philippe Ironwork. They've been14 there, I think, for 60 or 70 years. And15 these are tradespeople that everyone in16 Chestnut Hill uses. There's Roxy Auto on17 the other side of it, if you want to have18 your car repaired.19 So the idea was, keep the20 industrial uses there until a more21 appropriate use came along. I think22 that's its case here.23 And in light of the time, I'll24 stop and answer any questions you may25 111 12.8.10 - RULES - BILL 1007531 have.2
Thank3 you.4 Are there any questions from5 members of the committee?6 The Chair recognizes Councilman7 Kelly.8
Yes. I just9 have one question to the panel, and I10 just want to know how many residential11 properties are located adjacent to this12 property or across from the property, and13 how many of 'em are there?14
I think there are15 three. If I could go up to the map.16 COUNCIL PRESIDENT VERNA:17 Certainly.18
Yes, three19 properties.20 (Mr. Shelter moves to chart on21 display, away from microphone, and is22 inaudible at this point.)23
Three24 residential properties?25 112 12.8.10 - RULES - BILL 1007531
I guess there2 would be four. I stand corrected. So3 there are four properties.4
Thank8 you.9 The Chair recognizes Councilman10 Rizzo.11
Thank you,12 Madam Chair.13 Also, I'd like to point out --14 and I don't think it's been mentioned --15 that the westerly neighbor is a16 Philadelphia electric substation. So if17 you want to talk about a site, that18 site's going to be there forever as far19 as I'm concerned. But I just wanted to20 point out that that substation is the21 near neighbor to the property in22 discussion.23 Thank you, Madam President.24 COUNCIL PRESIDENT VERNA:25 113 12.8.10 - RULES - BILL 1007531 You're welcome.2 Thank you, gentlemen. We3 appreciate your coming in to testify.4 I really want to thank all of5 you for coming in. You've all been6 extremely patient, but I just want to say7 that when you come up to testify, if you8 could just be as brief as possible,9 because we do have another hearing that10 has been scheduled for 11:30 for another11 committee.12 So with that being said, I13 would ask the clerk to please call up the14 next witnesses.15
Good19 morning, welcome. Please identify20 yourself for the record.21
Good morning. 3 I have lived in Chestnut Hill,4 in the same house, paid taxes all these5 years, way back when oil was 17 cents a6 gallon. 8 A couple of things. 11 It's really about rules. 17 Despite what's happened, you18 know, we feel as though the judicial19 process is being circumvented here. 7 Now, this is very, very8 troublesome to me. The Chestnut Hill9 Residents Association is all about10 neighbors. If the majority of the11 neighbors don't want something, then we12 support them. 16 Elfant Wissahickon Realtors came in, they17 had to redo a building and spent18 $2 million on Germantown Avenue. They19 called us and said, you know, Do you20 object to this? I said, Do the neighbors21 wants it? Yes. 10 - RULES - BILL 1007531 There have been so many2 inconsistencies in the testimony you've3 heard from PIDC, from Mr. 10 Mr. Rhodes said that they want11 a business like Fresenius because they12 want small businesses coming in. And13 then, Mr. 17 We were not aware, until we18 heard it from him, that an agreement had19 been reached for no 24/7 operation. This20 has always been the thing that really21 affected the near neighbors, the hours of22 operation, and it still does. 4 But I want the committee to5 know that this was put before them right6 from the get-go. The Residents7 Association wanted to negotiate the hours8 right from the beginning. But, no, they9 went before the community association,10 Dr. 11 And what did they do? 21 I mean, is this the way you22 treat your constituents, the people23 sitting back there that vote you into24 office? I don't understand it. 5 When the Chestnut Hill6 Community Association, you know, got7 involved with this from the beginning, we8 all sat back and said, Let's follow9 procedure. We'll go to the Zoning Board,10 which we did. The Zoning Board ruled11 four-to-nothing in favor of the residents12 limiting the hours. 14 But one other point that I'd15 like to make, and then I'll defer to16 whatever questions you may have, and that17 is that the near neighbors -- and this is18 one of our biggest mottos. 21 They have over 60 signatures22 opposing not Fresenius per se, but they23 want to go back to the standard hours24 which were originally presented. 10 - RULES - BILL 1007531 is the case, they don't have a problem2 with that. 4 The standard hours were5 presented by Dr. Jones right from the6 get-go, and he said it even today. You7 know, the standard hours originally --8
The standard hours,11 which they said would be 6 to 6 three12 days a week; and 6 to 9 three days a13 week. The neighbors -- near neighbors14 don't have a problem with that.15 And that will be heard in court16 in March only because that was decided by17 the Zoning Board, and then the18 reconsideration, which took place behind19 closed doors, without any input from the20 near neighbors. And that's what we're21 arguing here, due process.22 And the last statement I have23 to make, because they took a cheap shot24 at the Residents Association. I served25 120 12.8.10 - RULES - BILL 1007531 on the board for the community2 association for nine years. I was3 president of that organization. When I4 was president, I found misdeeds going on.5 There was money unaccounted for.6 It was reported to the Attorney7 General's Office. And this has all been8 published a matter of record. The9 Attorney General's Office fined them and10 said, You better start complying;11 otherwise, we're going to have you back12 here again.13 Thank you.14
Thank you. My21 name is Ann Ward Spaeth. I've lived in22 Chestnut Hill since 1960. I am a23 resident there, and I have been a member24 of the Chestnut Hill Community25 121 12.8.10 - RULES - BILL 1007531 Association since 1967. When I first2 became a board member of that group, as a3 -- as the first president of the4 newly-formed Chestnut Hill Historical5 Society, I was one of the incorporators6 of that group, one of three7 incorporators.8 Throughout the following years,9 I have been on the board of the community10 association multiple times for -- been11 elected to it. The last election in this12 last year, there were not -- there was no13 formal vote for the people who ran for14 the board because there were not enough15 people running.16 The membership of the community17 association is currently down. And one18 of the reasons is that, in my view and in19 others' views, is that the community20 association no longer represents the21 interests of the residents but primarily22 those of the institutions and the23 businesses.24 It's very disturbing to hear --25 122 12.8.10 - RULES - BILL 1007531 the Residents Association, of which I am2 also a member, was formed because in so3 many instances in perhaps the last ten or4 twelve years, when there has been a5 problem between residents' feelings about6 a development and the business or7 institution, almost routinely -- in fact,8 I cannot think of an instance where the9 community association took the part of10 the residents.11 We are not a splinter group.12 We have been ridiculed by Mr. Sullivan13 and called --14
I22 think we have to talk about the bill23 before us.24
Yes. The bill25 123 12.8.10 - RULES - BILL 1007531 before us and the fact that it -- the2 neighbors were not called again to3 testify, when they were told at first4 that their request was reasonable, to not5 allow them to testify the second time6 seems unreasonable.7 It was suggested at the board8 meeting -- I was at the board meeting in9 May when this was presented to the CHCA10 board. It was suggested by a CHCA board11 member that there could be a -- they12 could come back in two years to reapply13 for the extra hours if that was needed.14 In that period of time,15 neighbors would have had the opportunity16 to know whether, in fact, Fresenius was a17 good neighbor and whether they could18 trust them.19 The fact that three times at20 that meeting, they said, "In 30 years,21 we've never wanted to go to a third22 shift," and the board voted -- not23 unanimously by any stretch -- to support24 them.25 124 12.8.10 - RULES - BILL 1007531 But one -- when the2 reconsideration came about, the3 neighbors, and I too, came to wonder4 about the intentions and the veracity5 actually of what we have been told was6 agreed to.7 I -- I -- I hope -- I -- I8 couldn't come to the first hearing9 because I was just returning from10 Germany, where things were beautiful, and11 I know they can do a beautiful job. But12 we don't know what will happen in13 Chestnut Hill.14 And while the committees are15 wonderful in their professional status,16 they cannot know intimately, unless they17 live in that section, the impact on the18 lives of the people there. And that is19 what the neighbors want to know and to20 assess before granting the full hours.21 Thank you very much.22
Thank25 125 12.8.10 - RULES - BILL 1007531 you, Madam President.2 Very quickly. Look, I3 understand that there certainly is4 disagreements on the process; I5 understand that, with the Zoning Board6 and all. Also, it's quite clear that7 there's some disputes with the groups in8 the neighborhood.9 But Miss Spaeth, I know in your10 letter, you say, "We count on you" --11 that's us -- "to support the residents."12 I think I heard that13 Mr. Primavera said that the organization14 would sign an agreement on the hours, and15 I think that's what the residents want,16 is to limit to 9 o'clock, right? on three17 days a week, six on the other.18 So when you get past everything19 else -- and what's before us today is20 whether to change the zoning or not.21 We're not the Zoning Board, we're not22 either association.23 But if it meets what the24 residents want, then I guess I don't25 126 12.8.10 - RULES - BILL 1007531 understand why we shouldn't support it.2
This is the first3 time I've heard that. And when we were4 presented with the case at the board, we5 did not get the final agreement, which6 was four pages, single-spaced, until it7 was placed on the table. It had been8 sent at noon that day via e-mail. People9 are at work during the day.10
Are you a11 nearby resident, ma'am? Do you live12 nearby?13
Okay, I19 understand that, I understand that.20 But I guess just my question21 is: When you get past everything else --22 and I know that's hard to get past23 everything else -- if those hours, as was24 presented today, my understanding is,25 127 12.8.10 - RULES - BILL 1007531 that's what the community wanted, that's2 what was in a lot of the communication we3 got, 'cause that communication said about4 24/7 operational. It was stated that's5 not the way it's going to be, there's6 going to be these hours.7 So I mean, I don't think, with8 all due respect, we're here to settle9 disputes between community associations10 and all that. We just want to know if11 this is the right thing to do. That's12 all.13
Thank you.17 If they go back to their18 standard hours, which is 6 to 6 three19 days a week and 6 to 9 three days, which20 the ZBA approved, fine.21
Okay.22 And that's what they said they were going23 to do.24
No, no, that's not25 128 12.8.10 - RULES - BILL 1007531 what they say. They keep flip-flopping.2 COUNCIL PRESIDENT VERNA:3 Mr. Primavera, can you respond to that,4 please.5 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Madam6 President, point of order on that7 question.8 What is the concern two days9 versus three days or three days versus10 two days?11
I12 have no idea.13 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: I'm just14 curious about that. Why is it that on15 certain days, it's accepted up to 9 p.m.16 and other days it's not? I'm -- what is17 the objection to that? What's to gain by18 only doing it three days or two days?19
The near neighbors20 will speak to that. I'm not a near21 neighbor.22 COUNCIL PRESIDENT VERNA:23 Excuse me, sir. We're really running out24 of time.25 129 12.8.10 - RULES - BILL 1007531 (Addressing Mr. Primavera.)2 Would you please make it imminently clear3 what the hours are?4
Yes. The5 agreement with the community association,6 and the agreement we're stating here7 today, is that we will be running from 68 in the morning till 9 at night as the9 maximum hours.10
That doesn't12 mean we'll run the third shift regularly,13 but means if, in fact, there's critical14 demand, we want the ability to run from 615 in the morning till 9 at night.16 Right now, we'll be running 617 to 6 Tuesday, Thursday, and Saturday,18 which is what the neighbors want. But we19 can't put 2 or $3 million into a facility20 and, all of a sudden, find that, as21 Dr. Jones said, we're turning people away22 when we have a brand-new facility because23 people think that we should close at 6.24 The three hours may be life and25 130 12.8.10 - RULES - BILL 1007531 death for some people; whereas, for2 others, it may be a matter of pride or a3 matter of getting the last word.4
Okay.12 I'm sorry about that. I misunderstood.13 So we're talking about --14 really what you're arguing about -- the15 dispute is three hours, three days a16 week.17
Okay, I20 understand that, and I think Councilman21 DiCicco asked this, and I was distracted.22
What is25 131 12.8.10 - RULES - BILL 1007531 the difference between going to 92 o'clock, I think it's, Monday and3 Wednesday and only to 6 o'clock Tuesday4 and Thursday? Why do those days make any5 difference? I mean, any major6 significance.7
Well, because we8 followed the process. It's due process9 and that was decided by --10
Yeah, but15 the question is: Why are those three16 hours an issue, in reality, to the17 community? I guess is what I'm getting18 at. Why are those three hours on those19 other three days a difference?20
What25 132 12.8.10 - RULES - BILL 1007531 is the problem?2
Thank7 you Miss Spaeth.8 Our next witness?9 (Witness comes forward.)10
Good11 afternoon, sir please identify yourself12 for the record.13
Hi. I'm Peter14 Burke. My wife and I live at 781115 Winston Road, which is one half block --16 not one, not two blocks like other people17 that have been here.18 Of course, this -- my wife and19 I filed -- are the ones who filed the20 appeal in the Commonwealth Court to the21 Zoning Board decision reversing their22 original decision and doing this behind,23 I'm sorry to say, closed doors; we were24 not permitted to make any personal25 133 12.8.10 - RULES - BILL 1007531 testimony before that decision.2 I should say, first of all,3 that I'm not a member of the CHCA and I'm4 not a member of the CHRA. I live on5 Winston Road among a number of other6 people who live on Winston Road who are7 also not members of either organization.8 Okay. The timeline of events9 is that we had several community meetings10 with the people who were proposing this11 project. They told us -- Dr. Jones stood12 up there and said, "We only run Monday,13 Wednesday, and Friday till 9. We run14 Tuesday, Thursday, and Saturday till 6."15 You've heard that drill. And he said,16 "Those have been our hours for 30 years.17 We're not going to be very much of an18 impact on your community."19 And we -- although we would20 prefer they not run any night hours, we21 said okay. You know, we agreed that we22 would accept a Zoning Board revision --23 or what do you call it?24
A25 134 12.8.10 - RULES - BILL 1007531 proviso?2
No, no, we would3 accept their getting permission to4 operate this facility.5 Okay. We asked them to put6 that in writing, like they had put all7 these other two pages of provisos on8 building size, building bricks, building9 windows in a letter to the Chestnut Hill10 Civic Association. And they rejected11 that. They rejected it approximately12 less than one month before the final vote13 before the CHCA.14 So a number of neighbors -- not15 members of either association -- went16 around. We developed a petition asking17 members of the community if they would18 support asking them to continue the19 maximum hours of operation that they had20 said they operated for 30 years. And we21 had approximately 70 signatures on that22 petition. I think someone has sent you23 copies of those petitions.24 Okay, so that's where we are.25 135 12.8.10 - RULES - BILL 1007531 And you've gotten the history of the2 actions did he ZBA.3 We're upset that the ZBA4 reversed themselves. So my wife and I5 filed an appeal, which is our legal6 right.7 And we feel very upset that8 you're jumping into this once again now9 at the request of the promoters of this10 project, taking away the due process that11 we feel we have a right to have before12 the court of law.13 Okay. What's the problem with14 nine hours? First of all, they told us15 they'd never add them, they never used16 it. That's a problem, okay.17 We prefer no night hours. The18 businesses that exist in the neighborhood19 -- remember, we're not on Germantown20 Avenue; we're away from Germantown21 Avenue. The businesses that exist near22 our properties where we live don't23 operate nine hours. We don't have -- I24 mean, you even have these Philippe25 136 12.8.10 - RULES - BILL 1007531 Brothers Ironwork; they don't work at2 night. Those guys go out and work and3 they come home 1t 5 o'clock and they4 leave. The same with the auto body shop;5 they come in at 8, they leave at 5.6 There's no business activity, there's no7 trucks, there's no nothing.8 This facility is a different9 animal from what we have dealt with in10 our neighborhoods.11 The other thing I wanted to12 mention is this business about residents.13 There's apartment buildings on the14 left-hand side which face Germantown15 Avenue that back up on this property.16 There are several houses along Germantown17 Avenue down beyond the property that18 also -- they face Germantown but they19 have their backyard on Winston Road, so20 they're really Bonn both streets.21 There's catty-corner across the22 street houses, single-family, twin houses23 up Winston Road. Moreland, same24 situation; there happened to be25 137 12.8.10 - RULES - BILL 1007531 apartments on the other two corners.2 It's a lot more than four properties of3 residential people that are impacted by4 this proposed operation.5 So I -- I mean -- and the other6 thing, PECO, they have a facility right7 next door, a substation. If there's8 anybody that comes to that facility from9 PECO once a week maybe, maybe twice a10 week, we don't have traffic. These11 businesses are not high-traffic12 businesses, and they are not nighttime13 businesses.14 So that's why we're concerned15 about nighttime hours.16 We said okay, we understand.17 You've got patients that want to be18 dialyzed at night and that you have a19 history of operating Monday, Wednesday,20 and Friday nights, but you have no21 history of operating Tuesday, Thursday,22 and Saturday. So why come to the23 community, tell us all of this, and say24 oh -- at the last minute, Oh, we got to25 138 12.8.10 - RULES - BILL 1007531 have access to 9 p.m. every night.2
Okay.7 Just a moment, please.8 The Chair recognizes Councilman9 Greenlee.10
Thank11 you, Madam President.12 Sir, I appreciate first that13 you're a resident and you're not getting14 involved in the community association15 versus the Residents Association; I16 understand that. And, again, as I said17 to the other people, I understand the18 process questions you may have.19 But I guess I'm still not real20 clear on what the difference is in the21 nights. I mean, if it's a problem on22 Monday with traffic, why would it not be23 a problem on Tuesday? Or if it's not,24 vice-versa? You know what I'm saying? I25 139 12.8.10 - RULES - BILL 1007531 guess I just don't see something like2 this that's happening to not allow it to3 happen because of those few hours. It4 just doesn't --5
Why -- okay. We9 said, "We'll let that happen. Just give10 us some peace and quiet three nights a11 week." And if -- and was Ann Spaeth was12 right. Walter Sullivan offered them the13 offices of his organization if, in two14 years or three years, they felt they15 needed that extra time, we would hold16 some public hearings in the community.17 And if there was no problems with the way18 they were operating, okay. But they19 wouldn't accept that either.20
When you21 say "peace and quiet," though, how22 much -- as it was described here, I mean,23 you're talking about cars pulling in and24 out. Is it that much -- I mean, what you25 140 12.8.10 - RULES - BILL 1007531 have right now under G-2 would have the2 potential to have a lot more of traffic3 and trucks pulling in and that kind of4 stuff, wouldn't it?5
The G-2 that was10 existing there was, again, once again, a11 daytime operation. They didn't come in12 at night.13
And also, it17 doesn't have to be G-2 in that sense. I18 mean, you're going -- you, being the19 City, is going through this process of20 redoing the zoning areas.21
And if that23 property is a G-2 -- I've heard it said24 at least at the zoning committee that25 141 12.8.10 - RULES - BILL 1007531 it's not targeted for G-2. It's too2 small for an industrial operation.3
Well,4 that's one of the reasons why they want5 to -- I think the idea to remap and it6 change it, yeah, to make it more7 consistent.8
Well, why are you9 doing a special legislative end-run here10 when we have a legitimate lawsuit in a11 court of law and we're getting cheated12 out of our -- out of the due process13 under that circumstances.14
The21 Chair recognizes Councilman DiCicco.22 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Thank you,23 Madam Chair.24 You know, I've dealt with a25 142 12.8.10 - RULES - BILL 1007531 number of these types of issues over the2 years, as have my colleagues, especially3 the District Council folks, and I'll just4 give you an example.5 At Broad and Wolf, which was6 formerly a funeral home, a developer came7 to me -- it's directly across the street8 from the Council President's district, on9 the east side of Broad -- and proposed to10 build a drugstore. I forget if it was11 Walgreen's, one of those national brands.12 The site is directly across the13 street from the Methodist Hospital, on14 the same side of Methodist hospital,15 where the emergency entrance and parking16 entrance is to the hospital.17 The neighbors objected to the18 drugstore being developed there. We did19 ask the developer if he would restrict20 the hours to no later than 12 o'clock.21 Where I'm going with this is,22 these are two entirely different types of23 operations. If this were a drugstore, a24 CVS or one of those name-brand businesses25 143 12.8.10 - RULES - BILL 1007531 that has either 12 hours or 24 hours of2 operation, I can see the flow of traffic3 being an imposition to the community.4 This is really a medical5 facility which is an office building6 that, for the most part, does not do7 ambulatory work or emergency work.8 If this was strictly an office9 building that housed people who did10 clerical work, would there still be11 objections because it's 9 o'clock?12 I mean, I look at this as a --13 and no disrespect to where you live and14 the folks live near you -- as a dead15 zone. I see this as a -- it is what it16 is, a vacant warehouse, with a not-good17 use of the parking lot, turning into an18 attractive-looking building that will be19 somewhat lit, that will employ people.20 And you will have pedestrian traffic,21 there's no question, but not a whole lot22 of that either.23 And see, I come from the24 position that we don't live in Mayberry;25 144 12.8.10 - RULES - BILL 1007531 we live in a city. And for me,2 pedestrian traffic, with some vehicular3 traffic, is healthy. It's better than4 what's there.5 I guess my question, then,6 would be: If -- hypothetically, if the7 hours of operation for the six days was8 6 p.m., would you and your neighbors9 still be objecting to this proposal?10
I doubt it.11 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: So the12 three hours is the deal-breaker?13
Nighttime,14 nighttime.15 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Thank you.16 No other questions.17
Thank18 you.19 Any other questions?20 (No further questions.)21
Do we25 145 12.8.10 - RULES - BILL 1007531 have anyone else to testify on this bill?2 (No response.)3 COUNCIL PRESIDENT VERNA:4 Anyone else to testify on the bill?5 (No response.)6
Seein7 g none, this will conclude our public8 hearing, and we will now go into a public9 meeting.10 * * *11 146 12.8.10 - RULES - PUBLIC MEETING1
The2 Chair recognizes Councilman Greenlee3 regarding Bill No. 100079.4
Thank5 you, Madam President.6 I move that Bill No. 100079 be7 reported out of this committee with a8 favorable recommendation and that the9 rules of Council be suspended so as to10 allow for first reading at our next11 session of Council.12 (Motion duly seconded.)13
It's14 been moved and seconded that Bill No.15 100079 be reported out of committee with16 a favorable recommendation and, further,17 that the rules of Council be suspended so18 as to permit first reading at our next19 session of Council.20 All in favor will say aye.21 Those opposed?22 The ayes have it, and the23 motion carries.24 Again, the Chair recognizes25 147 12.8.10 - RULES - PUBLIC MEETING1 Councilman Greenlee regarding Bill No.2 100784.3
Thank4 you, Madam President.5 I move that Bill No. 100784 be6 reported out of this committee with a7 favorable recommendation and that the8 rules of Council be suspended to allow9 for first reading at our next session of10 Council.11 (Motion duly seconded.)12
It13 has been moved and properly seconded that14 Bill No. 100784 be reported out of15 committee with a favorable recommendation16 and, further, that the rules of Council17 be suspended so as to permit first18 reading at our next session of Council.19 All in favor will say aye.20 Those opposed?21 The ayes have it, and the22 motion carries.23 The Chair recognizes Councilman24 Greenlee regarding Bill No. 100753.25 148 12.8.10 - RULES - PUBLIC MEETING1
Thank2 you, Madam President.3 I move that Bill No. 100753 be4 reported out of this committee with a5 favorable recommendation and that the6 rules of Council be suspended to allow7 for first reading at our next session of8 City Council.9 (Motion duly seconded.)10
It11 has been moved and properly seconded that12 Bill No. 100753 be reported out of13 committee with a favorable recommendation14 and, further, that the rules of Council15 be suspended so as to permit first16 reading at our next session of Council.17 All in favor will indicate by18 saying aye.19 Those opposed?20 The ayes have it, the motion21 carries.22 And this concludes our public23 meeting regarding the Rules Committee.24 Thank you all very much.25 149 12.8.10 - RULES - PUBLIC MEETING1 (Proceedings end at 12:28 p.m.)2 * * *3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 150 C E R T I F I C A T E2 I HEREBY CERTIFY that the4 proceedings of the City of Philadelphia5 Council Committee on Rules are contained fully6 and accurately in the stenographic notes taken7 by me on Wednesday, December 8, 2010, and that8 this is a true and correct statement of same.9 10 11 12 __________________________________ 13 JOSEPHINE CARDILLO Registered Professional Reporter14 15 16 17 18 19 20 (The foregoing certification of21 this transcript does not apply to any22 reproduction of the same by any means, unless23 under the direct control and/or supervision of24 the certifying reporter.)25