Well, I think -- Well, in my opinion it's a negative effect is 2502 Operating Budget - 4/6/05 the reduction of the hours in the libraries. That has absolutely a negative effect to me. (Applause.)
I would just say that $5.5 million seems like a lot of money, but when you're talking about a $2 billion budget, I don't think it's that difficult. And I would like to see us go back to where it was fully staffed and those hours extended. (Applause.)
That's the only thing I can say right now. And I know I would be working on your behalf to see that that's done, and I think most of this Council would also. All right. Thank you, Madam President.
You're welcome. The Chair recognizes Councilwoman Miller.
Thank you. Thank you, Madam Chair. 2503 Operating Budget - 4/6/05 Good morning, Mr. Shelkrot and Honorable Wilson Goode and Kevin Vaughan.
I have a couple questions here. Can you give me an update on the completion of repairs for the Joseph Coleman Northwest Regional Library? (Applause.)
My name is Bill 11 Flemming. I'm the administrative services director for the Free Library. The improvements at Joseph E. Coleman are actually coming to an end for this phase of the project. It's an air conditioning project. The contract with the firm doing the work actually expires April 30th, so there is a sense of urgency to get the system up and running and commissioned so that we can reopen the branch.
Now, this was an improvement scheduled or an emergency closing?
This was definitely 2504 Operating Budget - 4/6/05 an improvement. It's actually, I believe, the third phase of the project we've been doing over the past two-and-a-half to three years.
Yeah. I know that you're doing. Because some of the work I actually thought you had done before, but I guess you haven't. So, we can expect this to reopen May? Like, the first week or so in May?
After we get the system running and balanced the way we think it should be done, then we will allow staff to re-enter and clean the building and reopen I hope sometime in May.
In May. Okay. And if we run into any delays, should we call you? (Laughter.)
I would like to say if we run into delays, we'll call you. (Laughter.) 2505 Operating Budget - 4/6/05
Well, that would be good, too. But in the meantime we can reach out to Mr. Shelkrot or... Okay.
All right. Good. And I wasn't in the room. I was in and out of the room. So, I don't know whether anyone asked this question or not, but does the library plan to merge any more departments in the central library? And if so, which departments, and will any public service positions be eliminated?
The question is, do we in the future or have we in the past?
In the future. We are... In the central library we are looking at additional mergers. We know that when we have a new building where there is more open space, there may well be additional mergers. There is an operation going on right 2506 Operating Budget - 4/6/05 now behind the scenes. It is not in public service. And it is designed to reduce the number of staff, but primarily it is designed to get books to the public faster. And that operation is the combination of our processing division and our collection development office. And if you would like more information about that, Joe McPeak is here, and he's chief of the central library.
Okay. I would, because we'd like to know if public service positions -- it sounds like public service positions are going to be eliminated, or I didn't quite... Yes? No?
No. There's no 18 public services positions to be eliminated in that operation. If by public services you mean the people who help the public, these are all behind-the-scenes operations, that we are bound and determined to streamline, and have been working on in other ways to streamline that operation. And now it is time -- come 2507 Operating Budget - 4/6/05 time to bring these two departments together.
Okay. Did you want the other gentleman to talk about it?
Well, if he is here, if there are questions that I can't respond to.
Oh. Okay. Well, no. I guess I'm satisfied with the answer for now.
And does the Library Foundation employ staff providing library services? And if so, who are the staff and what they do?
The Library Foundation does not employ any staff that do the same things that our librarians do. I'd be happy to provide information on the foundation staff, if you would like to, at a later time.
Yes. I think we would like to have that information. I remember you did give it to us a couple years ago at one of the budget hearings. 2508 Operating Budget - 4/6/05
That would be very clear on who's staffing the library.
So, you're going to forward that to Council President Verna.
You're welcome. The Chair recognizes Councilman Nutter.
Thank you, Madam Chair. Madam Chair, may I have the Budget Director, please?
Certainly. Would the Budget Director please come to the table. The Chair recognizes Councilman Nutter. 2509 Operating Budget - 4/6/05
Thank you, Madam Chair. Ms. Reed, do you and Mr. Shelkrot need to confer any more to make sure we get the story straight? (Laughter.)
Can you provide some clarity to the record with regard to the $1 million that was appropriated or added back into the current FY'05 budget by this Council, based on the budget that we passed on July 1, 2004? Where is the $1 million.
Diane Reed, Budget Director. My understanding of the financing of that is the same as the Library Director's. You know, I've only been told about this because I was not there. I also think that there was an error --
My understanding is that the administration told the libraries that 2510 Operating Budget - 4/6/05 they would not receive an additional million dollars in appropriation unless they raised a million dollars in fees and fines.
Okay. Now, why does Mr. Shelkrot not seem to know that? Because he said there was no connection between the two.
Do you know who was told at the library what you just put on this record?
Okay. Did I see Mr. Vaughan here earlier? Pull up a chair. (Laughter.)
You'll be 2511 Operating Budget - 4/6/05 able to use the same microphone.
Mr. Vaughan, when you were here on March 17th, and either yourself or your own fiscal officer put on the record that information, who told you that the Budget Office told the library that you could not access the million dollars that City Council put in the FY'05 budget unless you raise an additional million dollars in fines?
When I was here on the 17th, two items were discussed in very close proximity, and people may have thought that there was a quid pro quo. The issue is that we were asked for --
I think the Budget Director has made it very clear that the two are connected. Is that not right?
And I will say that in the same meeting in which we were told that the million dollars was not going to be available, we had also been told that the library -- there was an expectation that the 2512 Operating Budget - 4/6/05 library would raise a million dollars in fine revenue to make our budget balance. So, we were told --
...no one figured out that the two were connected to each other? Is that the story that we're hearing this morning?
It was not presented in -- They weren't presented in the same sentence, nor were they presented as something that were connected, two things that were connected.
So now we're down to parsing sentences. I mean, do we want to dissect them? I mean, can we have an intelligent conversation about this?
Sir, if I may just 2513 Operating Budget - 4/6/05 say, a meeting --
Because I'm really about at my limit. Now, the Budget Director has now testified, whether you know it or not, Mr. Shelkrot, that there is a connection between the two. So, can we for the moment at least agree on that? Do you now know that there is a connection between the one and the other? Yes or no. 12
No. I didn't -- That's not my question. Did you hear what the Budget Director said? The Budget Director said that the two are connected. Do you understand what she's saying?
I understand... I understand what the Budget Director has said.
The Budget Director has said that her understanding -- Because 2514 Operating Budget - 4/6/05 she wasn't here at the time, her understanding --
Her understanding is that there was a connection. If I knew the meeting Mr. Vaughan was referring to, it was an hour-long meeting, and --
-- those issues were not discussed in anywhere near proximity.
You know, I'm not sure that I -- I mean, I believe I know that the meeting was -- was a meeting that was held early last summer, but...
In that meeting there was my -- If I know the meeting you're referring to, it was myself, it was Kevin, it 2515 Operating Budget - 4/6/05 was Bill Flemming, the Budget Director Rob Dubow, and I believe Peggy Van Belle was there. Those are the four people -- excuse me -- the six people that I remember most clearly. It was an hour long --
Who talked about the fines and who talked about the City appropriated or the Council appropriated a million dollars? All in the same meeting. Who talked about those items separately and so apart from each other that none of you could figure out that the one was connected to the other?
You know, I am sorry I did not tape record that meeting. There are no minutes of that meeting.
Mr. Shelkrot, it's a million dollars. It's a million dollars. (Applause.).
It's a million dollars. Now, I know we have a $3.5 billion budget. Last I checked we don't have a 2516 Operating Budget - 4/6/05 printing press in the basement. It's a million dollars, the closing for hours of branches to four hours a day. 5 And you can't remember who told you that you 6 don't get a new million dollars from this 7 City Council unless you raise an additional 8 million dollars, which you have never done in 9 history. And you can't remember who told you 10 that? 11
Sir... 15 Because, sir, I was not told that. 16 And if I told you -- 17
If I told you I 19 remembered that, I would be lying. 20 What we were told is, this is your budget. This is your budget.
These are the numbers that you -- 2517 Operating Budget - 4/6/05
That's not my question. When you were told this is your budget, who told you that? Do you remember that?
The Budget Director at that time said, this is your budget.
Kevin, Bill, what is -- what was the budget that was allocated that we were given at the beginning of the fiscal year.
According to the document, the fiscal '05 original appropriation was $36,526,075.
What I see down at the bottom for FY'05, the original appropriation was $46,743,119. That's what my budget book says.
And I have that number, too, if you're including the grant revenue funds.
I was looking at the bottom line. That's really the kind of person I am. I am looking at the bottom line.
Well, and I was looking at -- I was looking at the General Fund numbers, but it's in that same column.
And what's your FY'05 estimated obligations? 2519 Operating Budget - 4/6/05
The FY'05 estimated obligation level is forty-seven nine thirty-one six thirty-one.
I'm sorry. Forty million -- forty-nine million, hundred and five, three seventy-six.
Very good. Now, when you had the meeting for the hour, when the Budget Director said, this is your budget, what was that a number?
And the number is as I... you know. (Pause.) Well... I can tell you that the overall -- the operating budget for the City out of City funds is $36,526,075. 2520 Operating Budget - 4/6/05
That... What I was told is, that is the budget, but that is not necessarily what the target spending level was.
Did you ever ask the Budget Director about the million dollars that was being restored?
So it didn't matter. It didn't matter what was approved. Budget Director told you --
-- this is the amount; and you said, fine. 2521 Operating Budget - 4/6/05
No. The Budget Director said to me that there was an error that was committed by their office, and the additional million dollars only serves to balance out an error that they made in their office.
So the million we put in was filling the million dollar hole that had been created from the previous year because when you got your budget you were already a million dollars short, which I think you didn't mention to us. Then we put a million back. It's not a new million dollars. It's a million filling a hole that you walked in with that no one knew about. Isn't that the truth?
You were short a million dollars when you walked in here at last year's budget, correct?
There was a very clear understanding -- The Budget Office did not want it mentioned, that it would be resolved afterward.
-- your statement is, you walked into a City Council hearing and consciously withheld information from this City Council. We believe, because you don't tell us... We believe that we're giving you an additional million dollars, and you sat at the table, understanding that that million was filling a hole that we didn't know existed; isn't that right?
Did you tell on the record that you were a million short and a mistake had been made?
There was no -- No, I 2523 Operating Budget - 4/6/05 did not. I wasn't asked that.
How would we know? How would we know about a conversation you had with the Budget Director, saying a mistake had been made; we don't want you to tell anybody; and we'll fix it later on. How would we know that?
In meeting with Rob Dubow at the time that the budget came out and we initially got our budget, and before we came to Council --
Last year's budget. He never said don't -- It was not an issue of don't say anything. The Budget Office said -- Because we added up our budget. We got our numbers. We said, wait a second. There's a million 2524 Operating Budget - 4/6/05 dollars missing here. This doesn't add up. And we called them up. And they said to us, we will restore that million dollars through the target budget process. They told us that. It was affirmative.
No, it did not happen, but they told us at the time that that's how they were going to handle it.
Did you mention to City Council that you had such an arrangement, and it was not fulfilled?
Did you ever think to mention us, when we restored the million dollars last summer, that there was a problem?
At the time that Rob told us we were going to get the money, we just... we believed that that was going to happen. 2525 Operating Budget - 4/6/05 Unfortunately, at the time that we went for our target budget meeting, which was much later than the summer... It was actually in, I believe, September or October... it was only then that we learned that we weren't going to have that million, the million that Council appropriated was going to fill that hole. That's when we found out.
So let's recap gingerly. You were told by the Budget Office that a mistake had been made which would be rectified in some subsequent reconciliation to targeting budget.
We give you an additional million, what we think is an additional million dollars which you don't get.
You've now been told, in a meeting for an hour, that a million dollars... and you got to raise an additional million dollars, but no one puts those dots together. So now we sit here today. The new Budget Director has now put on the record that her understanding is you will not get the million dollars that we gave you last year unless you raise an additional million dollars on top of the $800,000 which has been your all-time high ever in fines. That's where we are; is that right?
That -- That is correct. At the end of that meeting we were -- you know, we were reminded, don't forget, you got to raise -- we need to have you raise an additional million dollars. And we said, we have the program in place that we believe would do that. But it was not part --
Didn't I hear you say just a little while ago that now you 2527 Operating Budget - 4/6/05 think you've maxed out on that, and that it's now driving people away?
What's not? SHELKROT: So, as best I can understand, you're short $2 million, your fines are too high, and you tell us that to get back to where we were with the emergency closures is a million and a half dollars, but then somehow to get back to some other point in time it's five and a half million dollars. Now, did you lose the whole five and a half in one year?
Every dime we are allowed to. We didn't lose anything. If you mean -- 2528 Operating Budget - 4/6/05
-- over the two and a half years -- Over the last two and a half years, the number of positions that we have lost equals five and a half million dollars.
And my question to you is, to get back to the emergency closure situation, you've now testified is a million and a half dollars. Now, it might be a little difficult. And all of that money that you've lost is not City money, correct? My recollection is, of the five and a half million dollars, it's three point something out of the state and two point something out of the City. Isn't that right? Are you only talking about five and a half million dollars from the City of Philadelphia?
What I'm referring to is that those are City funded positions. If we add up the number of City funded positions that we have lost, and you multiply it times the average salary, it comes pretty close to 2529 Operating Budget - 4/6/05 five and a half million dollars.
And is there no 4 thought or no plan that somewhere between a million and a half and five and a half over some period of time there is a way to start the restoration and the rebuilding of anything that anyone would really consider a full service library? Maybe it's not four hours a day. We put the libraries back. Maybe some libraries have six on a staggered basis or any of those kinds of iterations. Couldn't you lay out a plan to us that over some period of time, not in one year, gets you back to that level?
Well, did you do it before you came up with this one? (Laughter.)
No. Your obligation is to provide service. (Applause and cheers.) 2530 Operating Budget - 4/6/05
It's like a doctor saying, well, I know in my good medical advice you should say. But some bean counter somewhere says that you now have to go. It's not in my good medical judgment that you get out of the hospital, but someone told me that you have to leave. It's not that way. This is about service. It is about service. So, I would like to see -- and I'm sure our other members would like to see -- some other plan between zero and nothing. I know you're trying to figure that one out, aren't you? (Laughter.)
There's got to be somewhere between where it has been driven and the halcyon days of wherever we thought 2531 Operating Budget - 4/6/05 we were a few years ago that demonstrates to people we are trying to do something. And it would really be nice, since we are in a budget hearing... Are there any other numbers that you'd like to reveal to us in this hearing that we haven't heard about in the last two hearings? Is there any other things up the sleeve, in the shirt, in the back pocket, another conversation you had somewhere else that you might not remember or two disparate pieces of information that sound exactly like each other but the dots haven't been connected yet? Is this the real budget? (Laughter.)
This is the real budget, to the very best of my knowledge. (Laughter.)
Is there some other knowledge we need to pursue? I mean, what do you mean to the best of your knowledge? Is this the real budget or not? Mr. Shelkrot, I'm asking you a very serious question. I want to have confidence 2532 Operating Budget - 4/6/05 in the record that we have, in the documents that we have. And I only asked you that because of what's apparently happened over the last two years. So, I am very serious about this.
Well, can you put together a plan that shows us additional services between where we are today and whether it's the million and a half or million and a half plus? Any other efforts that are being made to pursue additional dollars outside of the City, outside of the City government? What else goes on with the fines? Now, does the library keep all of the rest of the fines except for the two seventy-six or is there a further split of the remainder?
Sir, we don't keep any of it, you know. It is all used. I outlined for one of the other Council people --