No. Is it -- 2533 Operating Budget - 4/6/05 What I mean is --
Is it under your direct control or do any other parts... If the number is 800,000 and 276,000 goes to the City -- for what reason is beyond my understanding. But the other 500 some odd thousand dollars, does the library control and spend that on its own or do any of those dollars go anywhere else? Do they go over to the foundation? Does the foundation do anything with it? What happens with the rest of the money?
The money is allocated, as I indicated before -- and I'll be happy to repeat it again -- the money is allocated in addition to that 270... 77, it's 238,000 for library materials, a hundred thousand for outreach to children at risk, and $185,000 for our volunteer programs.
I'd like to see that in writing, if you could forward that to 2534 Operating Budget - 4/6/05 the Chair. Madam Chair, I will conclude with this. First, why did you sign the memorandum of understanding with the Mayor's Office and the Finance Director in the first place?
Okay. I wasn't sure that you're saying these are things you want in writing or these are things you want now.
We'll get back to that. Why did you sign the memorandum of understanding?
I signed the memorandum of understanding because it would allow us to spend additional money on areas that I believed were essential, and that the administration also agreed that's fine. And it would not have to go through the hassles of arguing in -- for it when we were debating with the administration how much money should be allocated to the library.
Well, first of all, no, I don't think it allows you to spend 2535 Operating Budget - 4/6/05 more money. I think it allows you to spend less money.
By signing the agreement, you get to spend $276,000 less because that goes in the City's General Fund. You don't have access to that money.
Well, the... The -- The -- The library board of trustees determined that they would be willing to raise the fines of the library if that money could go directly to the services in those three areas.
And what I'm suggesting to you, Mr. Shelkrot -- And you're talking about the board at that time, not the board today, correct?
And what I'm suggesting to you is, not only from a legal opinion that the library sought permission to get outside of the government by Morgan, Lewis Bockius at the time, but there's also a City Solicitor's opinion saying you don't 2536 Operating Budget - 4/6/05 need anybody's permission about how you use the money or your term was a hassle with the City. The state statute and the Home Rule Charter directly allocate those monies to the Free Library: Direct, plain, simple, totally under your control. Isn't that correct?
Then why do you need an agreement? Why is there any hassle? You have a state statute that guarantees those dollars are directly under the control of the library, which your own legal counsel told you, in an opinion that you got on a pro bono basis, and the City Solicitor at that time, Joe Direvski (phonetic), reaffirmed in his opinion.
I understand that. And that apparently was wrong. Right?
Your legal counsel also recommended to you that you not 2537 Operating Budget - 4/6/05 engage in this particular type of transaction, keep all the money yourself under your direction, since you have that ability, and that you take a cut in a purchase of materials line item in Class 200. Do you remember that?
Yeah. The advice you got from your pro bono Council was not to enter into an agreement with the City of Philadelphia. That was their advice, which was obviously not --
I believe everyone has had a first go-around, with the exception of Councilman O'Neill. So at this time I would recognize Councilman O'Neill.
Thank you, Madam President. 2538 Operating Budget - 4/6/05 Mr. Shelkrot, it seems to me that cutting librarians and keeping libraries open at the same time, whether it's on a limited basis or not, is akin to a hospital laying off doctors and staying open. I don't know how you even conceive of a library being open without a librarian. And so, what I'm wondering is, with all the discussions that I'm sure went on between you, your staff, the administration, your trustees, was there a plan put forth by you to either the administration, your trustees or both that was full librarian staffing -- full librarian staffing; in other words, no cuts in librarians, and other things being cut. I don't care what they were at this point. But it would seem to me if you were the hospital director, you would tell your board, I can't run this hospital without doctors, but this is what I have to do in order to keep the doctors. Was there any such plan presented that would allow you to keep the librarians? 2539 Operating Budget - 4/6/05
The plan to keep the librarians and stay within the budget target that --
You can give me alternatives, one within the budget and one without. I want to know if you gave them a plan.
If you gave them an alternate plan that would cost more money, I want to know, one, if you gave them within the budget; and two, if there was a plan that said, I refuse as a -- for this library that to have libraries open without librarians, this is what I need.
First of all, let me just say that it is... although it is not something that we have done in Philadelphia before, and it is not something that I ever wanted to do, but it is not unheard of to 2540 Operating Budget - 4/6/05 have libraries without a full-time resident librarian. VOICES IN THE AUDIENCE: Lies. Lies. Lies.
Well, you know... You know, I... Sir, it is not something we wanted to do. We do have --
Absolutely. We presented -- We presented a plan that was not going to accomplish the reductions as they evolved, but when the reductions were -- at an earlier point. But as the reductions continued to evolve, and the target budget -- The target we were... for the budget was reduced over that period, moving from December into January. There are a variety of things that we considered. 2541 Operating Budget - 4/6/05
Did you, for your trustees or the Mayor's staff or both, present a plan that kept you within the budget that you were being told you had to live with and kept all the librarians' jobs? And if there were other ways -- you presented another way or asked to present another way of doing it. That's all. I don't care if your salary had to be eliminated. I just want -- And I don't mean that I'm hoping that was the plan. But was there a plan where you showed them, this is what it would take to keep the librarians in place and stay within the budget targets that you were given?
Obviously somebody rejected it, whether it was the 2542 Operating Budget - 4/6/05 trustees or the administration. Secondly, have you presented a plan that is outside the budget targets but keeps the or 16, whatever the number of 6 librarians that are being laid off, that 7 keeps them to the trustees and/or the 8 administration? 9
Last question, 14 because Councilman Nutter touched on the 15 state involvement in these reductions in 16 staff over the last two and a half years. 17 If you could just quantify -- I know you've quantified to me privately -- the reductions in the first two Governor Rendell budgets. I know there's been funds restored, not up to the previous level in the current state budget proposal. But if you could tell me between the Mayor, his relationship with the Governor, your trustees who are mostly 2543 Operating Budget - 4/6/05 pretty high powered people, and any other lobbying capacity the City has. Is there any talks going on right now to restore the state funding to where it was when Governor Rendell took office? That is approximately half of this problem. I mean, if you take the five and a half as the full extent of the problem. To me it's kind of like a matching fund, you know, between the City and state, partnering to restore the library services. Could you tell me what's going on? And if there's some things you can't talk about on the record, it's confidential, if you could talk to the Council President, Majority Leader, whomever, let us know that something is going on. I mean the state's in a critical area time wise with their budget. And two-and-a-half million might be a lot for the City. It's a lot less for the state, in terms of magnitude. Could you touch upon those items?
First the state cuts, so everybody really understands the enormity of what's happened over the past two budgets, and that this maybe is a chance to go beyond what the Governor has in his budget this year?
Sure, I'll be happy to. In fiscal year '03, we received -- and I'll round it off, if it's okay...
That was the amount of money that the City of Philadelphia, the Free Library, received out of the total allocation. And the formulas haven't been changed. It's just that the total amount of money has been reduced. In fiscal year '04 we received, rounding it off, $6 million. This current year that we are in, we received $7.2 2545 Operating Budget - 4/6/05 million. The amount of lobbying that went on across the State of Pennsylvania, you know, various... many, many legislators said they had never received so much mail on that issue. I understand that the Governor's Office was, understandably, tired of getting it all, and meetings and phone calls, and e-mail and all of those things. There have been an extensive effort. There continues to be an extensive effort on the behalf of librarians all over the state. You know, I -- I cannot speak specifically to what the Mayor's Office has done.
No, no, no, no. What 2546 Operating Budget - 4/6/05 I meant is --
I really want to know if the juggernaut that's Philadelphia...
...that is corporate Philadelphia, that is government Philadelphia, that is the extended lobbying consultants Philadelphia, that is relationship between this Mayor and our Governor can move to get us back just to where the Governor... where we were when the Governor took office, three years later. It might be a lot easier to twist the Mayor's arm if he knew that we weren't being shorted a whole lot more money by a government that has a much bigger capacity.
I understand what you're saying. You know, I certainly am not privy 2547 Operating Budget - 4/6/05 to the discussions between the Mayor and the Governor. What I was referring is efforts that were made by Philadelphians as part of the state, working very hard. But I -- I -- I do not know --
Well, it doesn't sound like all those phone calls have gotten us very far.
Well, this isn't asking for, you know, $800 million for stadiums or something, where you've got to have bus loads go up or, you know, resurrect S.E.P.T.A. This is a couple million dollars out of the state budget.
It's a couple million dollars out of the state budget to have library services for Philadelphians.
It seems to me a paltry number, but it makes it a lot easier both to get votes in this City Council and I'm sure to work the second floor if the Governor's restoring the funding that he cut. And I think that should be a major focus of what we do here. I hope after this budget we never talk about whether you like the idea of express libraries or I don't even think that libraries should be joined in the title of what the building becomes without the librarian. I mean, I just... I think somebody has to come up with a new nomenclature for that type of building. But I hope we stay focused on that issue with the state because if we don't, we're never going to be back to where we were 2549 Operating Budget - 4/6/05 just two-and-a-half years ago, at full staffing six days a week, right? Thank you.
Thank you. The Chair recognizes Councilman DiCicco. COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Madam President, I'm sorry. I think all of the questions concerning the million dollars, which we finally have found out was never really there in the first place, have been answered. So, I do not have any further questions at this time. Thank you.
Thank you. The Chair recognizes Councilwoman Tasco, if she's in the room. MR. McPHERSON: She just stepped out.
Thank you, Madam Chair. Mr. Shelkrot, you were going to put 2550 Operating Budget - 4/6/05 together some thoughts or plans. Councilman O'Neill has asked for alternatives. What I want to better understand is, again, getting back to the 1.5, and then I want to move on. If you received the total of 5.5 that you've mentioned before, how many people would be hired or rehired under that proposal, and what exactly does that do?
It's my understanding that the... when we put those figures together, that that would enable us to rehire the 130 people that we have lost in the last year-and-a-half -- excuse me -- two-and-a-half years.
And are you saying that -- I mean, you need 130 people to give a librarian at the branches eight 19 hours of service and maybe six on Saturdays? 20 I mean, this is the only way? You need 120 more people to do that?
Well, the restoring -- restoring the... with the 5.5, we can restore... Your question was about the $5.5 million or... Help me. I mean, I'm 2551 Operating Budget - 4/6/05 just trying to...
...we're now at branches, four hours a day, no librarians. 19 You responded to Councilman Kelly by 20 saying you needed a million and a half to get back to the days of emergency closures and the like, although all the librarians were in the library. What I'm trying to understand is, when you go from the 1.5 to 5.5, how many 2552 Operating Budget - 4/6/05 more people end up being hired? And why does it take that many more people to get us to a librarian in every library and six to eight hours of service a day?
Well, I'm going to... While Kevin and Bill are figuring out exactly the number of people that the 5.5 will provide, what the 5.5 refers to is the reductions in public service staff that were taken in the central library, as well as the regionals and the branches over the last several years, the assistants that librarians were provided by the work that goes on in other parts of the library operation, the maintenance staff, and other departments which have suffered because of the inability to replace vacancies that existed over the last several years. The number of those positions... Okay. It is still 130 positions.
Councilman, those -- When we talk about putting librarians back in the libraries, 1.5 will get you one librarian in the library. 2553 Operating Budget - 4/6/05 It won't -- It will get those libraries back to where they were --
That is not optimal. I mean, what we would like to do, and what we've tried to do over the years, and part of why this is so difficult --
No. We'd like to have more than one librarian in the library. We'd like to have a librarian who's a librarian -- 2554 Operating Budget - 4/6/05
Well, if there's a librarian in each library... Under that, under what you just said is not optimal...
Right? So, what does it take... And what I'm now going to ask you to do is, you would have to show us or I'm at least asking, on a library by library basis, number of people, number of hours, dollar amounts, what it takes for each of the to return them to a 16 full service operation. That's one. 17 Second, when you put the plan 18 together, was there discussion with the staff 19 and the union workers in the system about 20 this plan?
Kevin, do you want to -- You were... As soon as... Well, let me... As soon as we had approval from the administration that this was the plan to go with, there were meetings that were held with 2555 Operating Budget - 4/6/05 the various union representatives.
Okay. Stop right there. So, who came up with the plan?
Okay. The management of the library system came up with a plan. You ran it up the flagpole to get approval by the administration. When you received that approval, you then started the conversation with the people who would be affected by the plan. Is that the way it works?
Yes. And one of the reasons it works that way is, when you are dealing with layoffs, you can't... And that was a given. Let me just say, that was a given. 2556 Operating Budget - 4/6/05
Well, as I said, at first we thought it was 4, and then it moved up to over a period of about a month. 7
And with the changing 9 of that and the reaction -- you know, the 10 understandable fear that the people had... 11 So... But when you're dealing with layoffs, 12 you have to be not only clear about what is 13 being affected, but there were to be layoffs 14 across the City. It was not -- 15
But also 16 secretive. 17 I'm trying to understand. I mean these are professionals, right? These are professional individuals at what they do?
Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Not all 17, but -- but -- but the majority, certainly.
Well, we may have a different view of this. I actually think that all 23,000 public employees are 2557 Operating Budget - 4/6/05 professionals at what they do.
That will be a different debate for another day. These individuals are professionals in the library science. They have been involved in this process for some time.
Did the thought ever occur to you, even knowing that there might be layoffs, financial problems, that you would sit down and have a discussion, solicit ideas, get proposals, recommendations from your professionals, from your staff outside of the close, high level management staff, to say: Hey, gang, we have a problem. We want to solicit some of your best ideas and recommendations and suggestions on how we resolve this problem. You might not like what comes out at 2558 Operating Budget - 4/6/05 end of the process, but we're telling you up front we have a problem. We want your input to try to figure out how to try to solve it. Give us your best suggestion and ideas. Did that happen?
Sir -- Yes. I mean, your question was, did the thought ever cross my mind? You bet it did; yes, sir.
Well, I was informed by the City's Labor Relations Office that 2559 Operating Budget - 4/6/05 this was not the time, and we should not address -- we should not discuss these issues at that time, until other aspects of the City's overall plan were put together. And you know, that was the advice, that was the direction that I received.
Okay. So at the time that you engaged in discussion, at that point the decision had already been made; is that correct?
The decision of what the staffing... what the layoffs would be.
And the outline of the staff -- outline of the pattern of reducing operations, yes.
Okay. Mr. Shelkrot, can you at least lay out for us on the record... I have a list of the proposed staffing reductions across a variety of departments. 2560 Operating Budget - 4/6/05 Many of the individuals, you know... And again, unfortunately for them, you know, you have outreach worker, word processing specialist, administrative specialist. We've got a message center operator, a driver, technicians. Only the library appears to have taken the high level hit, as compared to virtually any other department in the government. Why is that?
You know, it was my... You know, it is and continues to be my understanding that there are -- let's see -- 200, I think? People across the City? I -- You know, that -- that is -- You know, wasn't that the number? That...
These are the people who run a part of the operation. As compared to another department, it appears that a librarian, a master's degree in the level of training and service, would almost 2561 Operating Budget - 4/6/05 be comparable to a captain in a police district. They do run the operation, right? They are professionally trained people. They manage people at the branch. They provide a high level of service. What I'm trying to understand is, of all the people... Not that we want anyone to be affected, but as it relates to servicing the public, of all the people to be on the block, why would you go after librarians?
Through the reductions that had taken place at the library over the last several years, we lost -- we have eliminated positions, 15 building -- buildings workers and custodials. We lost, you know, people from our payroll office. We lost people from our executive -- not -- not -- you know, some of or supportive staff from public relations, five people from the executive offices in the support areas, including public -- an important public relations position, and...
What's the level 2562 Operating Budget - 4/6/05 of support staff in the executive office? How many secretarial staff do you have?
You know, I -- I have -- There is -- There is -- There is one -- Well, as a matter of fact, because there's a vacancy which -- No. The person's out on long-term illness. At the moment in my office there is none. I am borrowing from people who work in other offices, such as Kevin's, in... you know, part of a person because they also work for Kevin, for the head of public services, and also people from the foundation offices, to keep functioning.
Well, I know if I go back over the transcript, I'd actually find an answer somewhere in that statement. (Laughter.)
But my time is probably going to run out. Let's talk about standards. How does this plan match up with the requirements under Pennsylvania law, with regard to 2563 Operating Budget - 4/6/05 library systems and branches?
Under the Pennsylvania law, we will not be losing any state aid through these reductions. However, if we are not careful, we will lose state aid because the amount of money that we invest in our -- spend for books and other materials is perilously close to the minimum requirements.
And can you explain to us... There seems to be some information or some confusion about the -- And you made reference to it earlier. There's some kind of culling of books at the central library, in an effort to either create space or some other reason. Why is it that the library gets rid of books?
A good public library, you know, never keeps everything it buys. The percentage of items that are not retained across the country, you know, is about -- Roughly about ten percent of the collection is culled each year. 2564 Operating Budget - 4/6/05 And that's because, on the one hand, books that aren't used are apparently not needed. On the other hand, books that are heavily used are worn out, and are very -- you know, not usable any more. And although -- You know, and -- and we follow those procedures because that's what a good public library does. It -- It cannot and should not keep everything that it ever purchased.
For the time being, this will be your last question.
Because other Council members want to be recognized.
I understand. Mr. Shelkrot, how long is it going to take you to be responsive to either the budget request that I've made or Councilman 2565 Operating Budget - 4/6/05 O'Neill or other members? When will you be able to provide us with an alternative plan to the unacceptable plan that's partially in effect today?
Okay. Do you have any indication at the moment if this Council -- I'm sorry, Madam Chair -- if this Council were to provide any additional funding to the library, do you have any indication at the moment that you would be able to spend it?
You know, at this time I don't have any indication that we would not be able to spend it or that we would be able to spend it. The issue has not come up.
I think you've covered the full range of possibilities.
Yeah. Well, I was trying to. You know, I -- You know, we -- it has not come up as a discussion.
The thought just 2566 Operating Budget - 4/6/05 never crossed your mind?
Well, of course. You know, yeah. You know, you asked a specific question, sir, and I was just trying to be specific to your answer. And I'm not trying to -- you know, to, you know, spar. I -- I -- You know, I think that --
-- if a -- if a -- if a budget were adopted and there was...
...in the administration's mind, then we would be able to spend it.
Yeah. You'd not spend it like you didn't spend what we last gave you. But I'll come back. Thank you, Madam President.
Thank you. Mr. Shelkrot, what is the likelihood that in '06 you will be collecting $1,277,000 2567 Operating Budget - 4/6/05 in fines?
So, I think the budget should be changed. I think there have to be amendments to the budget. I assume somebody from Finance is here, and certainly should be making a note of this.
Well, we -- we will -- we -- we... As -- As I mentioned earlier, we have gone back. We wanted to make sure that our analysis was correct. We wanted to be sure that money wasn't somehow disappearing. I mean, there are a lot of things -- We wanted to make sure where the -- where the problem was. And we now are preparing material to -- to discuss with the Budget Office our finding. But we wanted to be sure we had our 2568 Operating Budget - 4/6/05 facts straight.
Well, I think you have made it very clear that the facts are that you will not be able to collect that kind of money in fines in '06.
And when you are discussing this with the Finance Office, I think that this issue should also be addressed. Thank you. The Chair recognizes Councilman DiCicco. COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Thank you, Madam President, and good afternoon.
Please. Is it? COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Yes, it is. And that clock's.
Time goes by when you're having fun. COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Just move that forward one hour, and it's o'clock. Following up on the Council President's question, what is your best 2569 Operating Budget - 4/6/05 estimate -- and be conservative -- as to what you think we'll collect in fines this coming fiscal year. I'd rather have the lower number than the higher.