I'm not sure, but didn't we do the bill where a private owner -- where an owner of a vehicle could call a private company themselves --
Okay. Good. Because that was one of the problems I heard early on about the rotation, was that you were not 92 10/20/10 - RULES - BILL 100498, ETC. allowed --
This bill 7 permits you at the scene to call your brother-in-law if he has body shop. You don't have to participate in the rotation system. So you can have it go anywhere.
All right. That's good. And I just want to know a little bit, Mr. Fenerty, about the qualifications of a vehicle -- of the tow truck. I'm not trying to be a tow truck driver or I don't have a tow truck company, but I never even thought until Councilman Kenney said to me today earlier when we were talking about this, I never even thought about whether a tow vehicle qualified or not. I just figured they all did.
Councilwoman, in this ordinance, there are -- it is 93 10/20/10 - RULES - BILL 100498, ETC. outlined what a proper tow vehicle is. It would be a standard tow vehicle. It would not be a pickup truck with a sling laid across the bottom of it to show up at the scene. It would be a qualified tow truck, which would have certain weight classes to tow other certain weight classes. They would be inspected by our mechanics, our state-licensed mechanics, which are already on staff. We will just give them some additional duties. If they qualify, they can be placed on rotational towing, if they wish, whatever they apply for, or there are many companies may just apply for tow licenses that now go to L&I. But what we will do is, we will standardize the inspection. They will have to pass a state inspection once a year and they will have to have a tow vehicle, not a pickup truck converted into a tow vehicle for random calls.
Okay. So is that different from what they have to 94 10/20/10 - RULES - BILL 100498, ETC. do now? Wouldn't they have to pass --
They would have to pass state inspection now, taking the vehicle to their own mechanic. It would be required under this ordinance that it would go to a Parking Authority mechanic to pass inspection. That way, prior to it being licensed, it would be deemed roadworthy by a qualified mechanic who works for the Authority under the supervision of the City of Philadelphia.
Okay. Would it be the -- it's the same cost, I guess?
Coming to the Parking Authority mechanic versus going to your own private or whoever.
It may even be a little bit cheaper. I don't know what the Councilman said in here. I don't 95 10/20/10 - RULES - BILL 100498, ETC. recall off the top of --
And, again, we have not finalized all of the fees at this point. We're still in discussion. We want to make them mirror the private industry as best we can.
Yes. Thank you. I want to note before I begin my questioning that this incident -- what led us to some of these incidents happened in my councilmanic district, and I think it's important to note that the author of this is trying to deal with an issue that we all in Council have had a concern about, which is when the industry takes advantages of folks in the street and when they behave in a way that, as Gillison mentioned, Deputy Mayor Gillison, is unsafe in the streets, and I share the author's concern for that. And 96 10/20/10 - RULES - BILL 100498, ETC. I hope that the industry takes these discussions as a message that we are serious about getting this right for the safety of folks and that we need the industry to be more cooperative in how we get there. That said, I want to ask Deputy Mayor Gillison, Councilman Rizzo had worked on the towing rotation. Can you speak to what you see the current problems of our current rotation system and why we would be looking to give this authority over to the PPA? DEPUTY
Well, I think that -- and, again, we are still in the process of trying to understand the positives and the negatives that are out there. We've had the rotational system now for about, I guess, a year and a half, almost two years. As we have gone forward, we've learned a lot of different things. Obviously there's -- I will say again, for every action that is taken, there's an equal and opposite reaction. 97 10/20/10 - RULES - BILL 100498, ETC. Rotational towing is a good thing, not only from a business point of view but it gives people opportunities to grow their business and to be here in the City of Philadelphia. The problems, quite frankly, were the fact that the scanner issue. We thought that by having the rotational tow, that we would end up keeping people from running to the sites. The scanner situation allowed -- and one of the issues in the rotational towing that allowed for the private person to have the opportunity to negotiate with whoever was present put the police officer, we have found, in the position of trying to barter a deal in the middle of it, and technically government is not supposed to be in the middle of that private relationship that can be established on the street. So we ended up putting officers in the position of when they get there, trying to figure out what is the need of the consumer, the person who is involved. At the same 98 10/20/10 - RULES - BILL 100498, ETC. time, trying to manage the safety issue. And that's where I said that what we have learned, especially in the last two months, is that we have to provide a better way for the officers to negotiate on the scene what their responsibilities are under the bill and the law that's here in the City of Philadelphia. And we are addressing that. We thought that we would first try to address the rushing to the scene by taking the information off the public airwaves and putting it directly to the officer. That gives them additional time, number one. And time is of the essence here. Number two, once the officer gets there, under the bill we can actually ticket people.
But I want to speak to what we have now, because clearly if we have problems with our system now, we need to understand that before we create a new policy -- DEPUTY
-- and then we're testing something else. So I want to know, what is wrong with our current system? DEPUTY
The training issue we have to improve, and we are working on the improvement. We've already moved the MDT to give us some data as to how we're handling the situation now. That's only been in effect for less than two months. The problem of what the responsibilities of the officer are if they arrive on the scene and a person is hooked up and they're not on the rotational tow, is that a violation of this ordinance, yes or no, and what is the penalty going forward. The Law Department has opined that it is a violation of the matter, and, therefore, the officer can issue a ticket, and it can be up to a thousand dollars under the current ordinance. 100 10/20/10 - RULES - BILL 100498, ETC. We haven't issued those tickets. I think the officers needed to be told directly what their responsibilities are. So we have identified certain problems now. They become quite apparent, especially now that we have more time once we get to scenes to assess who needs to do what at what time going forward. So these are the issues that have come forward. This is the data that we have been analyzing, and we are looking at what training needs to be done to help the officers.
Just so I may add too also, one of the things we discovered with the current rotation system is of the 87 or 89 companies on the list, some of them aren't even licensed. I mean, the issue was that some of them owe like lots of taxes.
But who has oversight of that right now? 101 10/20/10 - RULES - BILL 100498, ETC.
L&I. But the issue is that even -- and I won't mention the names of the companies, but even the four or five that have been recently identified were on the rotation list. There's no way they should ever have been on that list, and that's part of the problem when, I think it was, the last Administration implemented the rotation. They wanted to understandably make it open for as many people as possible, but there needs to be some standards of business practice that folks need to come up to in order to be eligible, because we are putting a license of the City of Philadelphia on a truck, that if something happens, we're open to liability. Some of those converted Ford trucks, if something happens with them, they flip over or they flip something else over, we have actually authorized them to be on the street with that license on the side, which has caused lots of issues. 102 10/20/10 - RULES - BILL 100498, ETC.
So my question is around, what is the current role of L&I and what would it be under this current proposal? Because I see that as a failure of L&I. I mean, we've introduced bill 8 after bill around cross referencing people's BPTs with licensing. So why did L&I issue licenses to people who owed us taxes and, therefore, are in violation, and what is their certification process now? DEPUTY
The certification actually -- well, if you remember, a lot of this with L&I comes down to a paper process that we are now trying to change into an electronic matter. Literally, the cross referencing that we're all trying to do in order to make sure that revenue is coming into the City that needs to be collected, all of those things -- the complexity of what we're trying to do, you have L&I, which has a limited number of people that do 103 10/20/10 - RULES - BILL 100498, ETC. the inspections, quite frankly, there are a limited number of people that are available to do the cross referencing. You can move things by paper, and we all know what we've been trying to do over the last three years to get rid of paper and to move it more towards an electronic system. There are developments either in RFIs or RFPs to help us do this across the City, but that takes time. It's not something you can just implement tomorrow. You can put a stack of paper forward and send it over to Revenue, who would send it over to Law, who would send it back, but that's something that we have to do in a way that is measured that gives people time to do what we need to do. And, quite frankly, the way that the ordinance is written, there's a lot of responsibility that L&I has on it that needs to be shared between L&I, the Police and Revenue and Law, and all of that is something that I have to coordinate 104 10/20/10 - RULES - BILL 100498, ETC. within my office to make sure that we end up addressing this in a collaborative way with all the departments required. One of the things and one of the suggestions is, is that by relieving L&I, is that going to be a positive or a negative when it comes to who would actually do that, and the question that Councilman Kenney was asking that we're still reviewing is, is PPA the person to do it. I've had many conversations with Mr. Fenerty over the summer, the licensing issue and the weight class issue. They brought things to the table during our discussions over the summer that make sense, quite frankly. And so we're trying to look at this, make sure that when we fix it, that we come forward with a fix that is holistic, that will allow us to do the things we need to do, but I just didn't want to say that this is the -- we've identified a lot of the problems. Now 105 10/20/10 - RULES - BILL 100498, ETC. we're trying to figure out how can we improve the current system while we're in this system and then, quite frankly, work on the longer-term solution, of which this may be a way forward and it may actually suggest other things that have to be done as we go forward to fix this.
I guess my concern, and I shared it with Mr. Fenerty directly, there's a lot of things in government we don't do correctly but are our responsibility, and it's easy enough to say we're going to find somebody in private industry or anywhere else to do it and abdicate our responsibility. I think you're adding another hand to the plate, which to me would make that whole process of check and balances more complicated, not less complicated. (Applause.)
So I have a real concern about that, because there's a lot of departments in the City 106 10/20/10 - RULES - BILL 100498, ETC. we can sit here and say, Well, you know what, I know a computer tech firm that does this better and this better, and we'd be all over that. That said, how is L&I -- what's going to be L&I's role in the proposal and how is it going to interface with Revenue and Parking Authority, particularly because the City doesn't have direct oversight of Parking Authority? What's L&I's role in this, in the proposal?
From our discussions, L&I wanted to legally maintain the responsibility of issuing the license. They didn't believe that the issuance of the license --
To the truck. They didn't believe that the legal -- they didn't want to abdicate the legal responsibility of issuing the license to the tower. 107 10/20/10 - RULES - BILL 100498, ETC. They are willing, as far as we have known and could figure out so far, to take the advice of the Parking Authority relative to the condition of the truck, the weight of the truck, the needs of the truck, qualifications and, based on their analysis, be the formal issuance of the license. The way it works now is that -- as you know, L&I in many areas is stretched to the limit. They didn't have the folks either qualified to do it or enough folks to do it, and that's how the Police Department got involved. So when the Police Department, the tow unit, got involved, it got a little better, but over a couple of years, it went back to seeming that anybody who came looking for a license got one. And some of -- as Mr. Fenerty said, some of those trucks who have been illegal and not street-worthy for a number of years start appearing with licenses on them. So it was more a jurisdictional 108 10/20/10 - RULES - BILL 100498, ETC. issue with L&I maintaining the formal licensing thing while they dealt with the Parking Authority. But, again, the Parking Authority is not exactly City government, but it's not exactly a private entity either, so it's kind of a hybrid agency that we don't have total control over for sure, but seems to be the most appropriate within the City's governance abilities to deal with the problem directly. I don't think it's L&I or the Police.
Councilman, as you know, I appear in front of City Council very frequently. If we were to be delegated part of this or all of this, we would issue whatever Council and Deputy Mayor Gillison would want, monthly reports, quarterly reports, yearly reports, on any aspect of it. We would bill the rotational towing system, which would be computerized, that at any given time be printed out, that we would devise it in such a system that there would be a 109 10/20/10 - RULES - BILL 100498, ETC. monthly report that would show what calls came in, who they were assigned to, if someone turned it down, if someone was re-called because they took too much time to get there and if another tow truck was assigned. We intend to do this with baby steps. And I think as all Councilmembers know, whenever information has been asked from the Parking Authority, there's no 12 one in Council to say we have not responded. So we're not going to act on our own, and through the discussions which I had with Mayor Gillison over the course of the summer, we would be reportable to his office for all of our actions, our regulations and all reporting.
I have one more question for Vince and I'll let the rest of the testimony go forward. One of the things that I mentioned to Fenerty was my concern about the Parking Authority applying their other rules and 110 10/20/10 - RULES - BILL 100498, ETC. regulations as part of this process, and I'll explain. From a consumer perspective, I'm in an accident, I get towed to the Parking Authority lot. Am I going to have to pay what could be contested tickets to get my car? (Applause.)
As I had replied to you with that point, any vehicle which is towed to the Parking Authority doesn't get released until the vehicle goes through the Bureau of Administrative Adjudication. If the regulations were set that one did not have to do that or if there was a modification to the regulations such as setting a hearing and come back later, that would have to be set by the City Council on how exactly --
Excuse me. 111 10/20/10 - RULES - BILL 100498, ETC. Just a question. If you go to BAA now -- your car was towed in a loading zone or whatever and you go to BAA now and you have tickets, you can go to 9th and Filbert, wherever it is, and you put a program together where you're going to pay over time. That clears you up, doesn't it?
You can go to Bureau of Administrative Adjudication, which is not governed by the Parking Authority -- it's a City entity, an independent City entity -- explain the circumstances. They would set what's called bail on the car, a minimum amount to get the car out, place you on an IPP, which is a time payment plan, which is required under Section 12-2400 of the City Code, and then the vehicle could be released.
But you don't have to pay your tickets in full if you're contesting them or you're paying them over time; you'll still get your car 112 10/20/10 - RULES - BILL 100498, ETC. back?
You would still get your car back after you went in front of a hearing examiner. (Audience members talking.)
Excuse me. I'm sorry. Everyone will have an opportunity to testify, but we're not going to take testimony from the gallery. We just can't do it. So we understand the process and the record is not confused, if I have ten parking tickets and my car gets towed and I go to a lot to pick it up and they tell me it's ten tickets, you got to clear this up, and I go to BAA, what happens?
You will have a hearing, a bail hearing, in front of a hearing examiner. They will set what the minimum collateral is for the release of the vehicle, conduct a hearing on the 113 10/20/10 - RULES - BILL 100498, ETC. innocence or guilt, if it's been timely. If the tickets are five or six years old, they will just put you on a time payment plan. But there is a requirement that you would have to post some type of collateral to get the vehicle out, and that is determined on an individual case under statute set by City Council that's determined by a hearing examiner.
I think that's one of the things we have to flush out in this, but I'll let the rest of the testimony and then --
That is something we would have to discuss with Council, whatever the --
Well, no one gets out of the impoundment lot under any circumstance unless the vehicle is 114 10/20/10 - RULES - BILL 100498, ETC. insured or unless an insurance company or a lienholder or the claimant, they come in, they're covered by their insurance to pick it up. We do require everyone who retrieves their vehicle to be insured and the vehicle to be registered.
Of the current 89 on the rotation list, is residency in Philadelphia an eligibility factor? DEPUTY
I don't know. Everett Gillison, Deputy Mayor for Public Safety. I don't know. I'll have to research and get it back to the Chair.
He can check it. I do believe the arrangement is that if you are not a resident, if you 115 10/20/10 - RULES - BILL 100498, ETC. don't have a business residing in Philadelphia and the township or municipality outside of Philadelphia prohibits Philadelphia towers from doing work there, you're precluded. If you live in a township that allows Philadelphia towing companies to participate on a rotation list or to do tow work in that township, you are eligible to apply here. It's a reciprocity issue. If they're prohibiting us, we're prohibiting them. If they're allowing us in, we allow them to apply.
So we'll get clarity on that. And the follow-up question is, members of Council are always -- and I stepped out, so forgive me if the question was already raised -- of making 116 10/20/10 - RULES - BILL 100498, ETC. sure that businesspeople of color and women are in the mix of opportunity. So of that 89, what's the breakdown in terms of -- DEPUTY
That was a question that was asked, Councilwoman, I guess when you left, and I have pledged to the Chair that I will get the list of the firms, the number of minority and women who are currently in it, and I would provide that to the Chair. I didn't bring that with me today.
Are there any other questions for these witnesses? (No response.)
Seeing none, thank you very much. Mr. Fenerty, if you can -- I don't know if you have the time or not, if you could hang in there 117 10/20/10 - RULES - BILL 100498, ETC. just a little bit. If not, I understand. But, Mr. Fenerty, you're going to stay, right?
All right. Next list panel is Jose Giral, Sheri Pagano and Mikina Harrison, please. (Witnesses approached witness table.)
For about 11 years I have owned a small towing company which is located in Philadelphia. Currently, I am on the City's towing rotation. If this bill is passed, I'll be forced to go out of business. While I understand and agree with the spirit in which this legislation 118 10/20/10 - RULES - BILL 100498, ETC. was crafted, this bill is not the answer. Currently, on Philadelphia interstates, the State Police use the Parking Authority for all tows, excluding private tow companies. I understand that the City cannot do anything to help us on the expressway, but they can help us here. I see this bill as a foundation for things to come. Philadelphia is not the only city that had these problems in this industry. There are a lot of different ways cities have dealt with this similar issues, but none of which involve the Parking Authority. I believe that Police and License and Inspections should maintain authority and work with the industry in order to resolve these problems. I provided some Councilmembers with a few solutions that have been proven to work in other cities. One idea is issuing a tow operator license. This will create a record of operators so they 119 10/20/10 - RULES - BILL 100498, ETC. can be monitored. Another idea is modifying the current rotation system already in place. The Parking Authority will be a partner in my business -- by my business by me having to tow cars back to the Parking Authority so they can collect storage and prevent me from maybe even acquiring the second tow. Consumers will be charged an extra $25 every tow to cover the Parking Authority's administration costs. Also, by granting them the memorandum of understanding is how they got the authority to tow exclusively on the state highways from the state. Furthermore, if this bill gets passed, owners picking up their vehicles at the Parking Authority lots would have to pay the outstanding tickets. I agree that everyone should pay their tickets, but that might not be the right time and place. I'd like to say that the 120 10/20/10 - RULES - BILL 100498, ETC. current rotation system has not had significant time to be adjusted in order to work, so enacting the current bill 5 would just be starting all over again. And, most importantly, by giving the Parking Authority enforcement powers, this would only increase the cost of tows to the consumers, but also increase application and license fees. Most importantly, during tough times. Thank you.
Thank you very much. I appreciate your testimony. I just want to make sure the record is clear. The raise in towing fee suggested from 150 to 175 was done to try to help the industry save some money. If you want us to back it up to 150 again, I mean, that can be done in the legislation. I don't mind hearing complaint about some things that you may disagree with relative to the bill, but the 175 from 150 was done to help, not to hurt. 121 10/20/10 - RULES - BILL 100498, ETC.
To help who? The Parking Authority? Because that's where it's going to.
When we finally do the bill, if folks still feel the same way, we can knock it back to 150 if it's a consumer protection --
Why would anything have to be going to the Parking Authority? Right now the current rotation does not -- it's $150 and it goes straight to me, and it's a straight fee, which that's what we charge.
Also in this bill, what happens is, you have to tow the car back to the Parking Authority, right? Which that takes away storage fees that I could be collecting.
That I 122 10/20/10 - RULES - BILL 100498, ETC. understand.
And also maybe I might have a -- get a second tow out of it by towing it from my business to wherever the owner wants to.
I'm not disputing any of your testimony, other than the fact that the 175 was done to make the 150 that you get whole. That's the only reason it was done. So I just want to make sure that the record is clear that that was done basically --
No, out of discussion with the industry, not out of courtesy, just to try to make you whole, that's all. So I just want to make sure that was understood. Please identify yourself for the record.
Hi. Good afternoon. My name is Mikina Harrison and I am owner of A-Bob's Towing in 123 10/20/10 - RULES - BILL 100498, ETC. Philadelphia. I only got notice of this recently. I did not receive this in the mail, so I haven't had a lot of time to prepare most that I have a problem with in the bill. But one of them is, we do private lot enforcements, and there is a particular lot over at Haldeman and the Boulevard that's owned by a private real estate company that we contract with, and one of their clients is Chickie and Pete's, and lots of times people park their cars there when they go on road trips, and Chickie and Pete's call us to enforce their lot, and in this bill it suggests that we have to wait for police officers or PPA to come and ticket the vehicles first, and in the past we already had a delay with police dispatch. Lots of times the system was down, we could not obtain the three-digit number, and that basically decreased a lot of the cars that we could tow, which caused lost revenue. 124 10/20/10 - RULES - BILL 100498, ETC. Currently, since the police don't even come out for regular fender-benders, I'm concerned with the response time it would take for them to come and ticket a car on a private lot. That's the first problem. The second problem is, it takes the ownership out of the person that actually owns their private lot. If they contract with us and we are going to them in a very quick fashion to remove the vehicle so that Chickie and Pete's can actually accommodate their customers, why would they have to wait for the police to ticket their cars? (Applause.)
First, your testimony is not on this bill. The bill 20 that was already passed is going into effect November 12th.
No. 25 There's another bill that deals with 125 10/20/10 - RULES - BILL 100498, ETC. hospitals relative to that piece of legislation. But relative to the issue of the ticket to tow, the reason that we got to where we are is because we believed that you needed a neutral arbitrator, a neutral person who had no 8 financial interest, to decide whether or not that car was actually illegally parked, because we've had numerous complaints of folks who, of course, one side says one thing, one side says the other, I wasn't parked illegally, yes, you were, and the people take care their car. We needed someone, Parking Authority, Police Department, University Police, SEPTA, anyone's eligible or authorized to issue a parking ticket. It does not have to be just the Philadelphia Police. In instances where we have well-known, ongoing issues, Chickie's and Pete's, for example, both there and in South Philadelphia, we have made arrangements. The Parking Authority has 126 10/20/10 - RULES - BILL 100498, ETC. agreed that when we know there's a possibility of large numbers of cars parked illegally, they will put folks out there, because it's in their interest also to write those tickets from a revenue standpoint and to get you on your way with the illegally parked cars. So we can make those arrangements on special circumstances when there's an ongoing, regular problem, and we've gotten that commitment from the Authority.
Is there some type of standard that you guys have labeled as a reasonable response time?
No. We're going to monitor that and adjust accordingly. Again, a lot of these issues we're dealing with -- and I'm sorry that you're having to deal with them in a financial way -- had to do with the way the industry conducts -- some of the people in the industry conducted themselves over the years. For example, 127 10/20/10 - RULES - BILL 100498, ETC. just last week, just last week, with all this discussion of towing going on, just last week a Parking Authority tow truck stopped a private tow company from removing a car from the curb in a loading zone. Now, the car may in fact have been illegally parked over time in a loading zone. That private tower had absolutely no right to take that car, none, but already had it hooked, ready to take it, and if the Parking Authority hadn't showed up with the police, he would have taken that car. These are the problems that we're trying to address. Do I want to burden the Police Department any further for having to go out and put a ticket on a car? But I'd rather have that done than a person lose their car because a tow truck driver decided, whose financial interest is at stake, that that car is parked illegally. I mean, just last week it happened. Even with all the discussion that we're having over the 128 10/20/10 - RULES - BILL 100498, ETC. past couple months, they're still taking cars from the curb illegally. So I need a ticket on that car in order for it to go. But as far as the individual circumstances that you've described, we're going to address those on a case-by-case basis, with help from the Police Department and the Parking Authority. I mean, we'll monitor it as it goes forward. Let me tell you, there's no 14 perfect piece of legislation that's ever going to come out of here, and everything gets adjusted every couple of years. My first piece of legislation on towing I think was passed in 1993 and we still haven't fixed it. So we keep on going at it and people still try to get around it, but I'm sure that will happen if this thing passes. But we'll see.
Well, Sarah from your office faxed me Bill No. 100213. So is that everything that we're discussing 129 10/20/10 - RULES - BILL 100498, ETC. today? Is that correct?
No. This is Bill No -- what we're dealing with now is Bill No. 100536, which is --
I have that as well, but she had handed me 213 and I thought we were discussing that.
213 was signed by the Mayor, and we are amending 213 today to help hospitals move cars quicker from their emergency zones for emergency room -- their emergency areas.
Okay. So in Bill No. 536, it contains a lot of the things that's in 213. So that's why I was --
And, again, once you have a chance to acclimate yourself to the bill and study it, we're not moving the legislation out of Committee today. We will be having one or probably two more hearings before we're finished. So you're welcome to come back or to communicate with Sarah by 130 10/20/10 - RULES - BILL 100498, ETC. letter or by e-mail what your concerns are that we can try to address.
Well, some of the things I did look over would be the $500 fee, right?
A licensing fee, a relicensing fee. And currently -- for the business privilege license or license for towing? I wasn't clear on that.
The initial licensing is 500. The additional licensing yearly is three.
I think -- I mean, again, I recognize the fact that you've just gotten the bill, and hopefully you could peruse it and then come back to our next hearing or communicate with Sarah and we can try to 131 10/20/10 - RULES - BILL 100498, ETC. accommodate your issues.
Absolutely. One last thing. While testimony was going on, one of my other colleagues had mentioned that when we were speaking about the rotational system and if we are allowed to be on their county, then they can be on our county, I was told that was false, that two out of the three heavy-duty trucks that do towing for PPA do not reside in the county.
I understand, but that may be accurate, but in fact has nothing to do with this legislation. And the reason that we have this discussion about reciprocity is because I don't want to be in a situation where we start prohibiting Bristol and other places, Delaware County, from towing here and then they retaliate by 132 10/20/10 - RULES - BILL 100498, ETC. passing legislation that keep us out. So it's kind of a mutually "if you let us in, we'll let you in."
But I'm sure you'll be back in another hearing. Thank you.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I want to ask you the same question I asked the two first witnesses. In your view, who are the winners and losers in this proposal?
Because they actually taking revenue away from us and 133 10/20/10 - RULES - BILL 100498, ETC. basically creating a system that is not right.
What value do you see in uniformity across the system? Or, no, maybe you don't --
I think there's a need to uniform the system. And there's already a system in place. I think what we need to do is go back to that system and try to fix it basically with the help of the Police Department and L&I, not the Parking Authority.
There's a lot of changes. I spoke to City Council about even creating a operator's license, which every individual that operates a tow truck would have to apply for a license and, of course, they would have to have a 134 10/20/10 - RULES - BILL 100498, ETC. driver's license and they would have to be in good standing to curb the violence that's been going out there, because at the end of the day, the towing rotation does not by itself curb the violence that's been going out there and all the nightmares that you hear. That's not the only solution.
At the suggestion of the industry, we intend to put in that requirement.
Chairman addressed the issue of the $150 and how it appears, based on this testimony, that's an item that can be negotiated. You also mention you believe that storage fees -- talk more about storage fees.
Well, what happens in this bill, when me as a private tower and as part of the rotation, what I'm 135 10/20/10 - RULES - BILL 100498, ETC. going to have to do is tow the car back to the Parking Authority, which what they'll do is generate revenue actually from the storage fees and take away from me maybe even towing the car a second time. So basically the way the rotation sits right now, I go, I pick up a vehicle, I bring it back to my storage facility, I collect storage and I also get to tow the car a second time hopefully, not all the times, but that's revenue that's generated for small businesses. In this case, what happens is, you're just going to get a tow, which consumers are going to get penalized for additional $25 for. The Parking Authority is going to collect storage fees and they're going to generate money, and they are going to take away an avenue for me to tow the car a second time, and also put a hardship on the consumers by having to pay their parking tickets. You know, I believe that everybody should pay 136 10/20/10 - RULES - BILL 100498, ETC. their parking tickets, but maybe not when you just got into an accident and someone is in the hospital or you just came out the hospital. You know, that might not -- because paying the parking tickets at that time -- (Applause.)
Paying the Parking Authority, everybody says it's real easy, you go there and you pay your parking tickets, you make payment arrangements, but most people are going to lose a day of work, they don't have transportation to get there, they just got into an accident. There's a lot of things that are in between, a little gray area I would say.
Councilwoman, again, I understand the concern, but understand the activities we're trying to curtail with this. If it doesn't go back to the Parking Authority lot, the person on the scene who is owns the car can direct it anywhere they want. 137 10/20/10 - RULES - BILL 100498, ETC. They can direct it anywhere they want, and they can still tow it to their private lot, to a body shop of their choice. The problem is that in an accident -- and the witness has described the circumstances quite well, because you're disoriented, you're frustrated, you may be hurt -- what's been happening is that the tow truck operator will present the person with a consent form, which the person often signs. And no one should ever sign one of those consent forms, because once the consent form is signed, all of our regulations and rules are out the window. That tow truck operator, if he has an agreement with the body shop, can take it to the body shop, he can take it to his or her own impoundment lot. Some of the operators have the following processes: It gets to the body shop and if you go to the body shop as the owner and you don't want that body shop doing your work, he will gouge you, 138 10/20/10 - RULES - BILL 100498, ETC. because he wasn't getting the insurance work on your car. And this is some of the industry. If you're towed on a Saturday night at o'clock and you go to pick up 7 your car Sunday morning at 12:01, two-day 8 storage, not a 24-hour -- this would 9 require a 24-hour, $25 pay. Some of them 10 are not open 24/7. They're closed on a Sunday. They close at a certain time. The person has to pay the additional storage fee. The Parking Authority, it's 24/7, they take credit cards. Some operators refuse credit cards and want cash only, and we've been working on that problem. Look, I recognize that this is a hardship for -- going to be a hardship for some people, but I didn't -- this body did not put us here. It's the activities of some of the folks in the industry, too many frankly, that have decided that that automobile has a value. Whether it's a luxury Lexus or it's a car 139 10/20/10 - RULES - BILL 100498, ETC. that's ten years old, there's a value to those. There's the insurance repair value, there's the parts value. And I don't mind people getting value out of that, but not at the expense of consumers and not at the expense of the driving and walking public, because people are racing to catch these big tunas.
Now, on the issue of the consent form, in the way that Mr. Chairman just described it, is that your understanding as well?
I need to narrow the question. On the issue of the consent form, is the way Mr. Chairman just described it, is that what happens?
No. Currently, with the City's rotation program -- I'm on the rotation tow program. Currently, if I get called to a rotation, right, I tow the --
I need to 140 10/20/10 - RULES - BILL 100498, ETC. ask you to hold up, because the question is not about rotation. I'm really interested in what is happening with that consumer at the scene of the accident specifically as it is related to the consent form. In your view, being a member of the industry, how do you handle the consent form?
Okay. It's my understanding that procedure is that --
No, not regarding the rotation, but regards to the document or the form that you present to the person that's been in an accident that gives you, the tow operator, the legal right to then remove the car. Do you present a consent form?
Yes. There are set rates right now. There's set rates, and basically the customer has the right to tow their vehicle wherever they want to tow their vehicle to.
But understand, Councilwoman, once you sign the form, there's no protection. If an accident victim decides they want their car to go to their brother-in-law's body shop or this gentleman's lot, they have the absolute right to do it, but once the consent form is signed, the flood gates open and the car goes to a body shop or it goes to a private lot and you have a much more difficult time getting it out than you do at a Parking Authority lot.
My 142 10/20/10 - RULES - BILL 100498, ETC. interest rests purely with one of the three factors of this wheel, points of this triangle. What is going to be in the best interest of the consumer, of the person whose car --
Are you saying the consent form is the same as the towing report?
Excuse me. She can't pick up if you just yell from the audience. It has to be relayed. He's the witness.
When you're involved in an accident in Philadelphia, you're allowed to call your own tow to the scene. If you don't have a tow, currently the police officer can call a rotation tow.
Or the 143 10/20/10 - RULES - BILL 100498, ETC. third option is, members of the industry hear about it and they all scramble and race to the scene.
Yeah, there are some practices like that. I agree. Now -- and Councilman Rizzo's bill tried to address that issue.
And he created a towing rotation, which created a uniform system to deal with issues like that. So currently on the towing rotation, if I get called to an accident scene, I offer the option to tow the vehicle whenever the customer wants to.
If the customer is not there and they're in the hospital and they can't make that decision, then it comes back to my lot. I charge a set fee, which is already mandatory for me to charge. It's $150 to tow and $25 a day storage.
There are already laws in place that address that issue. And when the customer comes to pick up the vehicle, of course we try to offer the service to have the vehicle towed a second time for him whenever -- if he's not present at the scene of the accident. This is going -- this bill is going to take that away from us. I hope I answered your question.
I have one. I want to ask Jose Giral, what do you see has been the problem with our current rotation system and our 145 10/20/10 - RULES - BILL 100498, ETC. implementation?
I think it just -- they created it and they just let it run. They didn't address certain issues.
What are those issues? I think we need to be very specific about it.
I think what the Managing Director said is good, having the training for the police officers. I think that's an interesting point that he brought up.
How about in terms of Councilwoman Donna Reed Miller talked about whether the rotational system was being followed? Do you guys feel comfortable that the rotation was followed, that there was a mechanism for tracking that or not?
The rotational, do you think it has been fair? We created these districts and 146 10/20/10 - RULES - BILL 100498, ETC. then we allowed people to apply. Was that implemented correctly?
Yeah. I think the application process was pretty fair. I think it was fair.
Okay. What other issues would you foresee -- other than the police training, what other things do you think we did not get right? One of the things that this proposal does is issue -- gives PPA the authority to inspect the trucks.
Currently, the Police Department does the inspections. I think they do a pretty good job by inspecting the vehicles. I don't think giving it to the Parking Authority is going to make any difference, because I don't think the problems are in the trucks themselves. That's the biggest issue. They think that -- I understand what the Councilman with the weight limits on certain trucks. I understand, but I don't think that's the problem. 147 10/20/10 - RULES - BILL 100498, ETC.
But you do recognize there's some bad trucks out there?
But the bad trucks got licenses on them, and if the Police Department slapped a license on a bad truck, that's a problem with the inspection process.
You know, some of these trucks are actually legal in other states. That could be argued back and forth, because -- you might be saying that, but in other states, those trucks are actually legal. Over here you want to make them illegal, but in other states they are legal. They can get a registration, they can be licensed in other counties as tow trucks. But, like I said, that could be argued all day. I don't think that's the problem.
Thank you. 148 10/20/10 - RULES - BILL 100498, ETC.
Thank you, Councilman Kenney and the Rules Committee. I appreciate any solution, any resolution to the problems that we are experiencing. So, again, I thank you for your interest in this, but I do want to make sure that we do try to work with what we already have, and next Tuesday, October the 26th at 10:00 a.m., the Committee of the Whole, all members of City Council, will be meeting in this Chamber to try and repair the rotational towing system. And, again, if the Parking Authority is the answer to the solution, at this moment I don't think that that is the entire answer to the solution. I'm for whatever makes this better for the industry. (Applause.)
Better for, it was already stated, the consumer. So I think together we've got a 149 10/20/10 - RULES - BILL 100498, ETC. base to work with, that we should work very hard to make it effective before we go to the drastic step to hand this off to a state agency.
Hi. I think what Councilwoman Sanchez was asking when she mentioned my name, my comment was I had heard that rotation was not fair, that some trucks or tow trucks were not being utilized. Just by show of hands, has rotation been fair? Have your companies been called? Can you just show your hands if it has not, if your company has not, if it has not been fair? (Some audience members raising hands.)
I think it hasn't been used properly, and that's what 150 10/20/10 - RULES - BILL 100498, ETC. happens. You know, people don't get called because they're not using the rotation the way they should.
What does that mean? Clarify that, "not used properly."
Basically the Police Department is not utilizing it the way they should utilize it.
What happens is, when the police officer comes to the scene of the accident, if the customer doesn't have their own tow, they supposed to pick from the rotation list, and that's not happening. And if it is happening, it's happening very limited. So obviously if you have 96 companies and there's only one tow a week, obviously nobody is getting called. I get called 4 o'clock in the morning, 5 o'clock in the morning when nobody else picks up the phone. That's basically what's happening 151 10/20/10 - RULES - BILL 100498, ETC. out there.
So what you're saying then could be that every time there's an accident, the people involved, the owners of the vehicle, have their own company that they call?
I mean, I know you just used one call a week hypothetically. However, I'm just trying to figure out whether that rotation system is working.