Darnell Carvello. Most of the attacks that I've seen and actually it was not on the Broad Street Line, but actually on the Market-Frankford Line. And personally, I get on the train at 15th Street and I go westbound, and they wait until about after 30th Street, because most of the cops, they'll get off right there. And one incident I was on the train going home one afternoon not feeling too well or whatnot and the cops were on the train at 15th Street. They got off at 30th and some of them got off at 34th, and after 34th Street, a group of boys approached me talking about, Give me all your stuff 82 4/17/08 - TRANSPORTATION - RES. 080396 and whatnot. I said, No, I'm not going for that. And between 40th and 52nd Street, I ended up getting into a fight. No SEPTA cop, no nothing. The cops sitting down at the corner of 52nd and Market, but they're sitting in their cars and then they pulled off. So there's nowhere for me really to say anything. When I went home, I told my mom about it and she took me right to the police station, and they filed a report, but I haven't gotten any response back yet.
We're joined, I see, by Councilman Rizzo, who has really worked very hard and organized a meeting to help us. Yes, you've always been helpful. We were talking about the meeting and some of your help with trying to get children protected in the subways. The last meeting we had at our school, there were about 35 attendees at that 83 4/17/08 - TRANSPORTATION - RES. 080396 meeting.
I'd like to on the record recognize that Councilman Rizzo has entered the Chambers, and if you want to be recognized, Councilman.
I just want to thank you for bringing this group together, because I think when we work together, we can accomplish a lot. I know when we had some initial incidents, SEPTA was very good, the Police Department was very good. Matter of fact, they provided overtime and did a lot of things. So, again, I'm appealing to the people that can make things happen in this city to do whatever they can to be helpful, because this is important. Lots of nice young men here today, and I just wanted to make sure that I stopped in at least to let you know that I'm listening carefully upstairs.
Thank you, Councilman. 84 4/17/08 - TRANSPORTATION - RES. 080396
All right. I'll summarize. In summary, I just want to say that there is an urgent need for more police officers and SEPTA officers to patrol the subway stops, particularly after school hours. It is very crucial before there's another death. And I said that five years ago, and I'm very sorry to report that that has occurred, and I'm pleading that something be done before there's another death in the City. Thank you.
Thank you. And before you young men leave, I want you to know something, that you put up with a lot of things during the course of a day, during the course of growing up, and one of them should not be a rite of passage, trial through fire on our mass transportation system. You should be worrying being math, science, recreation and, to a lesser extent, your female 85 4/17/08 - TRANSPORTATION - RES. 080396 friends that teenagers should be worried about, not how do I survive this SEPTA trip. And I'm not pointing at SEPTA. I'm talking about in our communities, there is a problem. Mayor Nutter has talked about the fact that we have to take ownership and be responsible in our communities as well, and we're going to do whatever it takes to bring the appropriate parties together and work together to solve this problem. We're not -- this is not about pointing fingers. This is about highlighting the problem. And, again, when I talk about doing a security audit of what's going on, you know more about what's going on on a daily basis than all of the people in this room, because you live it every day, and we're listening to you.
Thank you very much. 86 4/17/08 - TRANSPORTATION - RES. 080396 Just on the record, in order of presentation, we usurp that process, but City Controller Butkovitz has submitted written testimony and, if he comes back, will be allowed to come in, but we're going to move along for purposes of time and ask SEPTA to come up. (Witnesses approached witness table.)
Thank you. Good afternoon. State your name for the record, please.
Good afternoon, Mr. Chairman. My name is James Jordan. I'm the Assistant General Manger for Public and Operational Safety at SEPTA. MR. DiCICCO: Christian DiCicco, City Representative, SEPTA Board member.
On behalf of SEPTA, I'd like to express our appreciation for this Committee's invitation to us to appear and address this critically important issue of public 87 4/17/08 - TRANSPORTATION - RES. 080396 safety and safety on our system. I would echo and further emphasize what this Committee has heard from Commissioner Ramsey and others, that SEPTA is in a very close and productive and cooperative relationship with the City of Philadelphia police, other City agencies, the School District and the School District security forces and other entities, including Center City District, University of Pennsylvania and Temple. We have found that to be a very productive relationship. We agree with you, Mr. Chairman, that this is a problem that could only be solved if all of us work together to address it. One of the major challenges we face is that while I can submit to you and have submitted to you numbers and can give you more breakdowns and we can see that the number of serious crimes is rather low, that's not even half the battle, because if people do not feel 88 4/17/08 - TRANSPORTATION - RES. 080396 safe on our system, then we have a lot of work to do. And people do not feel safe. The tragic murder that occurred a couple of weeks ago touched such a nerve in this city because people are, quite simply, sick and tired of especially the behavior of a lot of school children after school dismissal. Most of the time that is simply obnoxious or disruptive behavior, but now we see the tragic consequences of that behavior. And, again, we have been working with City of Philadelphia police, with Commissioner Ramsey, and we'll continue to do so. Let me mention one issue that has come up that is actually more of a benefit. The question has been raised. This year we started a program for selling weekly passes to the School District, which distributes them to qualifying school children. We see no 24 evidence whatsoever that would link the use of these passes with the crime we're 89 4/17/08 - TRANSPORTATION - RES. 080396 seeing in the disruptive behavior on the system. That existed years before these passes. We do not see any patterns especially of people using the passes to roam the system. The incidents we've seen, crimes or other incidents, are school children riding the system going from school towards their home and engaging in criminal or disruptive behavior. The good news is that with the institution of the school pass program, attendance at City schools has increased between four and six percent, which we find is a great benefit. Again, because making people feel safe is important to us, we have increased our police presence, as I believe one of the students mentioned. This started last year, but certainly in the last month we have further increased our presence on the system, as has Commissioner Ramsey, and we've seen extraordinarily positive feedback from 90 4/17/08 - TRANSPORTATION - RES. 080396 the public on that issue. That's even in a sense where with the homicide and with another highly publicized incident, SEPTA police were immediately on the scene and did make arrests. So the issue is not just are there not enough police out there. In fact, in the homicidal attack, it happened in view of a police officer. That's how brazen that incident was. I assume the kids didn't see the officer since he was inside the subway station, but he saw them and responded immediately. In addition to our increased staffing, which we will be monitoring closely -- and Mr. DiCicco and the Board will be assessing after the end of the school year as to what direction we want to take to maximize our presence on the systems -- we're also investing over a hundred million dollars in our Smart Stations program. That is more than just cameras. It puts in state-of-the-art communications, including call boxes, 91 4/17/08 - TRANSPORTATION - RES. 080396 intercoms, public address systems and other alarm systems. That is a large project.
It's been underway for quite some time. We will see the completion of the first phase of stations early next 7 year and, by 2011, the completion on the 8 remaining stations in our system. 9 I'd be more than happy to 10 either myself or with my colleagues here 11 reply or attempt to address any questions 12 the Committee might have. 13
Mr. DiCicco, 14 did you want to -- 15 MR. DiCICCO: Yes. 16
State your 17 name for the record, please. 18 MR. DiCICCO: Again, Christian 19 DiCicco, City Representative, SEPTA Board 20 member. 21 I, too, would like to thank you for the opportunity to offer my remarks with respect to making sure our underground transit system is more secure. I would like to read into the 92 4/17/08 - TRANSPORTATION - RES. 080396 record, if it's okay, a summary of the statement that I had presented at the SEPTA capital budget hearing approximately two weeks ago. Philadelphia subways and underground stations have come a long way in the past few decades. Skyrocketing gas prices have made our public transportation system more important than ever. SEPTA cannot afford to lose the public's confidence, which is why we must act immediately to put an end to recent violent episodes in our system. I have asked SEPTA staff to develop a plan, and it appears from the testimony today and working closely with Mr. Jordan and SEPTA that they are working towards implementing the following security upgrades as soon as possible, while also researching and pursuing other best practices to guarantee a safe and secure public transit system. Specifically, I have asked the 93 4/17/08 - TRANSPORTATION - RES. 080396 staff to increase the police presence on our vehicles and at our subway stations to create a more visible police presence and to discourage any further violent incidents. Increasing police overtime will allow SEPTA to strengthen police patrols in the short term while pursuing long-term solutions. Police overtime should be increased until the end of the school year in June, at which point SEPTA and its Board will assess its effects and consider a more permanent solution. SEPTA currently has a long-term plan to implement security cameras in underground stations, but the timeline for that plan must be accelerated. I urge SEPTA to install cameras in every subway station within the next 18 months, and we should pursue increased federal homeland security funds and call upon our state legislators to help finance this project. It is perfectly logical that 94 4/17/08 - TRANSPORTATION - RES. 080396 any attempt to make Philadelphia more secure from terrorist attacks should start with securing our underground systems, especially in light of the attacks on rail systems in London and Madrid in the past five years. Installing these cameras will serve two purposes and will be an extremely effective use of this funding. We have a force of approximately 250 transit police that does an excellent job in protecting our riders, but we have hundreds of thousands of commuters and we must add more officers to our force. I have asked staff to look to hire 50 new officers over the next two years while constantly reassessing our security needs. Again, I'd like to thank you, and I commend you, the Philadelphia Police Department, this Committee, SEPTA Police and staff on its joint efforts to alleviate our concerned riders problems. Thank you. 95 4/17/08 - TRANSPORTATION - RES. 080396
Okay. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Gentlemen, I guess the first question should be with Mr. DiCicco. You talk about the funding. How receptive has the Board been to those kinds of -- I know you've been for a while a very good advocate for the City, but obviously we know how the Board is set up, so I won't get into detail, but we know what I'm talking about. MR. DiCICCO: I must say that I am extremely happy with the staff's response, as well as my fellow colleagues, the Board members, understanding the need for a secure system. This is beyond the Philadelphia problem. This is a regional problem, and they understand it as well.
Great. Well, that's certainly good to hear. 96 4/17/08 - TRANSPORTATION - RES. 080396 Mr. Jordan, a couple questions. First, on that Smart Station initiative, are you doing the stations according to incidents? Like, in other words, are the ones that have the most problems being done first?
Yes, sir. The first phase targeted the highest priority stations from a safety and security standpoint.
And I don't know if you can answer this or somebody else here. We just heard the testimony of the students, and, quite frankly, I have heard those kind of things before. That's not the only thing. And I'm not saying it's typical and all that, but I have heard some concern that sometimes -- and it might be -- that the SEPTA police, they see a lot of incidents and maybe they're -- maybe callous isn't the right word, but like the one kid that talked there -- desensitized is probably a better word, 97 4/17/08 - TRANSPORTATION - RES. 080396 Mr. Chairman. I mean, clearly, it seemed to me if that young man was telling it truthfully -- and I don't have any doubt that he was -- there should have been more than just told to go home; am I right?
I will guarantee you his memory is not accurate. I don't mean to any way impugn his honor. It could not have happened that way. What we do see -- and I will assure you, our officers are very sensitive. Under the laws of the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania, if a police officer does not witness a misdemeanor being committed and the witness does not wish to pursue charges, there is nothing that officer can do other than file an incident report with the SEPTA Police, and we see that. And I believe one of the gentlemen who was talking basically said he told the Philadelphia police officer he didn't want to talk about it. 98 4/17/08 - TRANSPORTATION - RES. 080396 Now, that's going to generate an incident report, but there is nothing that the officers can do. We also see a pattern, as I think a couple of the young men mentioned, where the students themselves don't want to prosecute. Very often they know or can find out who did it. They go home and their parents said, You're going with me to the police station, we're going to file a report. Sadly, the "don't snitch" mentality works in the subways as well as above ground, just witness the length of time it took Philadelphia Homicide Division to make the subsequent arrest in the Conroy homicide. Having said that, we are very determined to be more aggressive. Another part of the problem we deal with is, a lot of the objectional behavior is not criminal. The school kids get on the system, they're very loud, they might play fight, they might mouth, make aggressive comments. They 99 4/17/08 - TRANSPORTATION - RES. 080396 might do other things that do not rise to the level of criminal behavior. If, on the other hand, they are violating ordinances, such as by lighting up a cigarette, we will give them citations. We also will escort them out of a building or off a station. But it goes to the heart of the feeling of safety. People do not feel safe when they are on a subway or a bus, and all the sudden a couple of dozen very energetic, rowdy teenagers get on and are talking very loudly and maybe playing music, even if their behavior is completely lawful, and that's a serious problem that -- and that's simply our riders. Our personnel, our bus operators, our subway operators, our crews, SEPTA personnel are subject to the same problems, including a tragic increase in assaults on bus operators on our system, which we are also aggressively trying to address.
I was 100 4/17/08 - TRANSPORTATION - RES. 080396 going to ask about buses. We talked mostly about subways, which I think are probably where the bulk of the incidents are, but have there been any increase in incidents on buses? And if they are, are they kind of around the same time? Is it often times school related?
The complaints we see are of disruptive behavior. Because of the way our schedule works and dovetails with the school schedule, very often the buses are carrying a busload of kids from the same school, at least until they get to the transportation center or subway stop. So we don't have these inter-school or inter-neighborhood rivalries. We don't have as many members of the general public riding those buses in that 2:00 to 3:30 or so window. We do get a lot of customer complaints and a lot of complaints from our operators. Among the other initiatives we have started is a program to put multiple cameras on our buses. The pilot program, 101 4/17/08 - TRANSPORTATION - RES. 080396 I can tell you, is a dramatic success. We caught a young man about completely 4 disrupting the bus, escorted him off. 5 His mother was very upset. We invited 6 her down to look at the film, and suffice 7 it to say, one, I think that young man 8 had some problems when she got home, 9 because she was shocked. Two, the word 10 went out immediately throughout that 11 school that SEPTA now had cameras on 12 their buses, and the next day on the pilot you would have thought you were in Sunday school the way the children sat with their arms together and hands together. But for some reason, we are seeing more criminal behavior in the subway and nearby areas, like the concourse, but also we see more fear. The one other inherent problem we have is, a lot of people do not feel as safe underground. Psychologically you do not feel you have the same options.
You don't 102 4/17/08 - TRANSPORTATION - RES. 080396 see daylight out there.
We and the City most especially emphasize and put a lot of effort into cleaning, lighting, access, but the reality is, people are more fearful, and for reasons I'm not sure -- well, actually, it's probably because you can exit the subway system at any stop. Because, again, as I think this Committee knows, to the extent there is a typical pattern, it is a group of teenagers in an apparently spontaneous act surrounding someone, trying to frighten them, striking them, trying to steal a cell phone or electronic gadget, or sometimes it's been over a bag of French fries or something as small as that. It's over in a matter of seconds and then they can either get off the train or get onto the next train. We do believe our cameras will help greatly on that issue, but the one thing we know works is putting more cops in uniform out there, and we have put 103 4/17/08 - TRANSPORTATION - RES. 080396 more out, Commissioner Ramsey has put more out, and we are seeing the dramatic effect on people's feeling of safety, I would say.
I just have one more question. Just one more, if I could. Thank you, Mr. Jordan. We talked a lot here about communication and you talked about communicating and interacting with the School District. Have there been situations where, say, one particular school -- and I know it might not all be public schools -- where you hear that there's a lot of incidents of such-and-such high school that you've gone to that school or you've gone to the School District and said, Look, we got a particular problem here?
We've done that quite a lot, and as I said, we do work very closely with the Security Department of the School District. There are some schools that are more of a problem. The 104 4/17/08 - TRANSPORTATION - RES. 080396 School District has been very helpful in their response, for example, in keeping the school kids who are assigned to disciplinary schools off of our system as much as possible. A lot of the problems Ms. Joyner was talking about were related to a disciplinary school, and went away when the School District changed its approach there. Part of the problem is that we have a big system, stations on the 13 Broad Street Line, I think 32 on the 14 Market-Frankford Line, covering a lot of 15 miles of territory, and things can happen 16 anywhere along that line. We want, for 17 example, our officers to patrol both the 18 cars and the stations, and as one of the 19 young men described, these kids will wait 20 until there's not a cop around that they 21 can see or they will wait until there's 22 not a camera around and do this quick 30-second strike and then try to leave. It's very hard to police against that, especially because so often there seems 105 4/17/08 - TRANSPORTATION - RES. 080396 to be no motive other than --
It's a game for some of these kids. And you know how to catch robbers by, as Willie Sutton says, going where the money is, but this type of behavior is very difficult to police, and it's another factor in creating the sense of unease that does exist among our customers and our citizens.
Thank you. Thank you for your testimony. Let me ask a few questions. What was SEPTA's operating budget '07?
A little under a billion dollars a year. I think it was maybe 990 million, 995 million. It's a lot of money.
What 106 4/17/08 - TRANSPORTATION - RES. 080396 percentage of that budget is dedicated to security and in specific --
The SEPTA Police Department budget for the last couple of years has been about $14 million. Now, we obviously spend other money, including capital funds, on security, for example, the hundred million dollar Smart Stations project, but in terms of the annual operating budget, it's roughly $14 million against an overall budget of $1 billion.
That would be the rough numbers for FY07. Same rough numbers for Fiscal Year '08.
Well, dedicated to 107 4/17/08 - TRANSPORTATION - RES. 080396 the Police Department would be million against 1 billion. I'm not sure what the percentage is.
At any given time, 12 we will, because we have an attrition 13 rate of maybe five to six percent. We 14 adjust for that by increased use of overtime. So that we do not have unfilled deployment.
So you have not had over the last three years unfilled positions for officers?
No; we could. Again, when we have vacancy -- well, let me put it this way: We are tied to the schedule of the Philadelphia Police Academy. Up until recently, they had seen some reduction in the number of 108 4/17/08 - TRANSPORTATION - RES. 080396 classes they were holding. Therefore, we had fewer slots we could put candidates in.
For everyone's edification, your officers are trained at our facilities and are trained just like regular police officers, correct?
Yes, sir. And we meet the same standards for law enforcement and we are accredited by the Pennsylvania Police Chief's Association.
What is your level in '06-'07 for positions for officers? What was that level, funded level?
And you're saying to me over those three years, you haven't had vacancies?
What were the vacancy rate levels of unfilled 109 4/17/08 - TRANSPORTATION - RES. 080396 positions over those three years?
I could track that. We've actually had sometimes when we were over that allotment because we were able to create a large class, but I would say just in terms of vacancies, the most I have ever seen, I think, is ten or less.
I would suggest that that number is off, but I'm going to give you the benefit of your memory.
When I say "vacancy," that would be vacancies -- we also have officers who may be out on sick leave, long-term disability. They may be in training. They have vacation schedules. But in terms of unfilled positions, that is driven by a lengthy selection process and by the scheduling at the Police Academy.
I'm going to try this one again. What is this year's funded level of positions for officers 110 4/17/08 - TRANSPORTATION - RES. 080396 for SEPTA?
I would like you to go back and check the number of funded positions versus filled positions for the last three years.
Secondly, what is your turnover ratio by way of loss of officers?
Again, I would defer to the Chief, but my sense is about five to six or seven percent a year. It can -- sometimes it's very little; sometimes it can be higher. A lot of it will depend on factors outside of our control, such as whether suburban townships are hiring. They typically pay higher salaries.
It can be significantly higher for a much easier 111 4/17/08 - TRANSPORTATION - RES. 080396 job.
Is it $6,000 difference between City police officers and SEPTA police?
I believe that's right, yes, sir, for beginning. That gap narrows a little bit, but it's always less than a comparable Philadelphia police officer.
What is the number of deployed officers on the 13 stations on the Broad Street Line on peak 14 hours that were suggested by the Police 15 Department, which I believe were 3:00 to 16 6:00? 17
We look at it 18 more, I think, as 2:00 to 5:00, but 19 during that period, we are now putting 20 approximately 90 officers out on both the 21 Broad Street and the Market-Frankford 22 Line, supplemented by up to ten plainclothes undercover officers. That is a roughly --
That is as of two weeks ago. Even before then we had increased our staffing during that period.
So what was that staffing increase and what was the number?
The basic staffing plan calls for about 50 officers to be out on the two subway systems during that time, 50 to 60. We've increased that by 50 percent.
That's good news. There was a problem with training of officers based on availability of class timing with the City's Police Department?
I wouldn't call it a problem. We cannot send officers to the Academy when the Academy is not 113 4/17/08 - TRANSPORTATION - RES. 080396 holding their six-month training course and --
That was about a month ago. We graduated four officers. I'm not sure. I think we are looking to put about or in the next class, 10 which we're hoping the Academy will start 11 this summer. 12
And what was the time frame between that last graduating class, the four, and the one before that?
Again, I would defer to the Chief. (Witness approached witness table.)
We put the four into the Academy, the ones that have just graduated, about a week before the 114 4/17/08 - TRANSPORTATION - RES. 080396 previous class graduated from the Academy.
Before that, I believe we graduated nine officers from the Police Academy.
So you regularly have been able to access the training?
For the most part, 115 4/17/08 - TRANSPORTATION - RES. 080396 yeah. We're not -- the Academy is not always ready when we're ready, but they may be a month later than we'd like to start, but we do get our people in.
You stated SEPTA's overall operating budget in '07 was?
No. That's our operating budget and we are required by state law -- we're forbidden by state law from incurring a deficit.
I'm asking these questions for a reason, that as I hear what's going on, there's a couple of things that pop out at me. One, there is a lack of coordination. I heard that we 116 4/17/08 - TRANSPORTATION - RES. 080396 just started meeting with the Philadelphia Police Department -- wait a minute -- and that there was a period of at least one school year that we started working with the School Board to adjust release times for students. I think that current events has called for us to have a regular coordinating meeting, that it shouldn't be happenstance, that it should be a regular part of whether it's your Board's report or your operating staff meeting's agenda that have we coordinated in reference to security for the following hot spots. And I'd like to suggest humbly that that be a part of your operation. When I see you build something, you do it with precision, and some things happen, you get over delays, but pretty much I've watched you do the El and you've done that with a military preciseness. But when it comes to the coordination of our safety, that's kind 117 4/17/08 - TRANSPORTATION - RES. 080396 of a little bit murky and foggy to me, and what I am challenging you to do is to kind of take some of that on-time train arrival coordination and apply it to the safety factor. I asked the question, has there been an independent security audit. I'm going to ask that question to you now.
Not independent, but the SEPTA Police do security audits of all of our stations and all of our facilities. We had police commanders on -- involved in the planning of the Smart Stations project, advising where to mount cameras, where to do things to assure maximum coverage. So not independent, but we do the kinds of evaluations you were talking about internally. Externally the evaluations have been more -- have been in the area of homeland security and terrorism.
It has been my experience that we tend to overlook 118 4/17/08 - TRANSPORTATION - RES. 080396 the obvious when it comes to ourselves, and we definitely overlook the expenses when it comes to our budget. So what I am suggesting to you, that an independent security audit be conducted that kind of coordinates a number of aspects, whether it's Public Property, because some of the property is owned by the City of Philadelphia, whether it is SEPTA, the operating entity, whether it is of the school system, who actually let's our children out on your system to get from home, school and back. But somebody needs to kind of take a step back, look at the big picture and tell us where our holes, vulnerabilities, dark spots are. And I'm going to ask you that because you don't have a deficit and I'm going to challenge you kind of to apply some of those additional resources that you've gotten from the state and apply them to the safe operation of the system. I'm going to further say that when it comes to Smart Stations -- and 119 4/17/08 - TRANSPORTATION - RES. 080396 you kind of alluded to the fact that you're picking -- what is the timetable for the completion of them and what can the public look for to a smart, safe station and where and when?
I said the first phase for stations are scheduled to be 9 completed by early next year. What the 10 public will see are a large number of 11 cameras, over a thousand cameras 12 throughout the system. They will see -- 13 they will hear public address systems. 14 They will see more call box systems. 15 They may not see, but there will be 16 intercom systems that the cashiers have. 17 They will have better lighting and better 18 signage. Those are the -- 19
Can you stop 20 there? Signage, to what degree does 21 digital signs play in the security role and what is a part of that kind of --
It's valuable. We are enhancing our ability and we'll continue to do so to communicate through 120 4/17/08 - TRANSPORTATION - RES. 080396 either the electronic signage or the public address system. We have that capacity to a certain extent on the rail side. We are implementing it on the subway side. We have certain features of it on the bus side, but that is definitely an area we are developing. A lot of that communication is schedule information, service reliability, service disruption, but it would also give us the capacity -- I mean, to give you, again, one example, during our test program on Smart Stations, we had a test group who was monitoring the station, monitoring the cameras, saw a young man running up a descending escalator. We flipped the switch for the PA system and from 1234 Market told him to stop horsing around on the escalator. You would have thought he had a heart attack. All the sudden this voice is coming out of the sky. So that kind of capacity is what riders won't see and is part of the 121 4/17/08 - TRANSPORTATION - RES. 080396 complexity and cost, is the video can be fed back to our Control Center and our Police Control Center at 1234 Market so we can aggressively actively monitor situations, follow up, radio information to police approaching the scene. So there will be pieces that the public won't see, but they will see a lot.
Let me just again for the record, because I'm a little dense. By the end of next year, we will have Broad and Olney, Broad and Girard completed as a Smart Station and also I'd like to say a safe station; is that correct? (Witness approached witness table.)
I'm Jeff Knueppel, Chief Engineer for SEPTA. At the end of this calendar year, we'll be wrapping up the construction on the first 21 stations, and what we'll be doing even today is, we're starting to put the cameras and 122 4/17/08 - TRANSPORTATION - RES. 080396 wire them into the digital recorders in the communications rooms in the stations, so that while we have to wait until the end of this calendar year for all the construction to be done, we're putting what we can in service as soon as we can.
So the stations that have been mentioned will be completed by the end of this calendar year?
Right, but we might even have cameras in service earlier. As the cameras are mounted by the contractors, we will place them in service.
May I press you to ask one other question? How are you safeguarding SEPTA bus operators and the riders there?
We think the cameras on the buses will be the single most valuable thing to protect our operators and our riders. We have over 1,100 buses that cover a five-county 123 4/17/08 - TRANSPORTATION - RES. 080396 area. That presents an obvious challenge in policing, especially because -- the SEPTA Police Department is staffed and designed to patrol the two subway systems.
Have you ever had an instance where your operators were victims of crime?
Again, I can get you statistics. It has been with disturbing frequency over the last two or three years. I am aware of at least a half a dozen fairly potentially serious assaults a year against operators.
Not to my knowledge anywhere in the country. It may have happened, but --
So you wouldn't know of a situation where a bus 124 4/17/08 - TRANSPORTATION - RES. 080396 driver was kidnapped, robbed at gunpoint and his life was threatened?
I am aware of situations where bus operators were robbed at gunpoint. I would defer to the police or the department -- I don't remember the kidnapping piece, but we do have gunpoint robberies that have happened also on our rail system.
I would suggest to you that it has happened, and I won't bring the guy forward. You lost a great operator due to it. I'm hoping that these cameras come on board so that you don't lose any more. And one of the things that stuck in my mind when I ran for this office was, when I went to TWU and this former TWU worker -- because he couldn't come back to work. It was traumatic. He talked about a tale of being kidnapped and taken off of a route, robbed and then his life was threatened. And other than the fact that God was with him that moment, he was going to leave 125 4/17/08 - TRANSPORTATION - RES. 080396 here. So these cameras on these buses are an essential safety, not only for the riders, but for your own operators, and I would just leave it at that. All right?
All right. I can, unfortunately, assure you it is inherently dangerous out there. We had another operator shot just as he was driving his bus, apparently drove it into a free fire zone. He was seriously wounded. Fortunately, he is back at work. But there is no question that there are dangers out there, which is why we are -- we are also encouraging the State Legislature to increase the criminal penalties for any assault on a transit employee, making that an aggravated assault offense. And we're working closely with --
Absolutely. 126 4/17/08 - TRANSPORTATION - RES. 080396
-- with the unions, including TWU 234, on that as well. So we agree there is a problem. We are very concerned about it and we are doing what we can. I would also say we work closely with Philadelphia Police in responding to any threat on our bus system. As a general rule, they're going to be closer than we are if the incident happens in Philadelphia. So they typically would be the responding law enforcement agency on the bus side.
I'm going to turn it over to Councilman Greenlee, but I have one last question. Your officers do not have the ability to investigate other than -- what are their limits?
They have full -- our officers have full law enforcement powers on the transit system or in areas 127 4/17/08 - TRANSPORTATION - RES. 080396 where there's a relationship to transit. So that if it happens on the system, if it happens on the system and somebody is running away from it, we have all of the powers of a Philadelphia police officer. That jurisdiction covers all of the five counties we operate in, so that we can make the same arrest if we happen to be in Delaware County at the 69th Street Station, but we -- and to address an issue that I believe actually Commissioner Timoney looked at briefly when he was Commissioner about consolidating the departments. We are created under a different state law. We have five-county jurisdiction. We don't see a need -- and I don't think Commissioner Ramsey does either -- to merge the two departments. What is needed -- and, again, I want to correct any misimpression that's been there. We need to continue working closely with Philadelphia Police, with the School Board. We do meet regularly. 128 4/17/08 - TRANSPORTATION - RES. 080396 This isn't something that just started. This has been going on for years. But I do like your suggestion that we create a standing group to have a conversation on -- I think there are informally that sort of thing, but I agree with you that that's a good next step.
Well, as Chairman of the Transportation Committee -- and I'm going to deputize my Vice-Chair -- that we would be willing, more than willing, to participate in any task force and make sure that we do our share to encourage a little tougher laws. If we have to advocate to the state level, we'll do it. We have a mutual issue here and that mutual concern about the ridership and citizens of Philadelphia, and we want to work with you. Councilman Greenlee.
I'm sorry, Mr. Chairman. If I could just address one other point before I forget, because 129 4/17/08 - TRANSPORTATION - RES. 080396 Mr. Butkovitz had to leave. He is conducting an independent audit of SEPTA Police. In fact, we are scheduled to meet either today or tomorrow with an outside consulting group that he has retained to assist him in the audit. That may -- and it may be that he can shape that audit to include the issues we've heard today about school-related violence, school-related problems, the role of the Philadelphia Police Department, the role of the School District. I'll certainly raise that with him, but that at least a part of what you are recommending is underway as we speak and we are cooperating to the best of our ability with the Controller on that.
Thank you. Just one quick question, Mr. Chairman. Thank you, Mr. Jordan. First of all, I do recognize -- I think we both 130 4/17/08 - TRANSPORTATION - RES. 080396 do -- that SEPTA is trying to address this problem. We're not in any way trying to say you're not. But obviously there's always more that could be done. On the camera issue -- and I don't think you addressed this. I apologize if this was already asked. Will these cameras be prominent? Is it clear they're going to be whether it's on the buses or whatever? They're not hidden cameras, if you will?
No. They are overt cameras. And I believe this came up in another meeting that you and I and the Chairman were at. We will look to see if we need to make them even more overt, but from our pilot, these school kids don't have any trouble spotting them and trying to deface them. But we are not using covert cameras.
But I'm thinking even on the buses too, because that makes the passengers -- the majority of passengers that don't want a problem 131 4/17/08 - TRANSPORTATION - RES. 080396 and even the possible perpetrator of a problem, if they know they're there, obviously they're going to be less likely, we hope.
Can't do much more than that. Okay. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Are there any other witnesses that are here? School District, please come up. (Witnesses approached witness table.)
Good afternoon. I'm Greg Patton with the School District of Philadelphia. 132 4/17/08 - TRANSPORTATION - RES. 080396
My name is Michael Whalen. I'm a commander affiliated with the Office of School Climate and Safety, the Philadelphia School District.
Okay. Please submit your testimony. Do you have written testimony?
Good afternoon, Chairman Jones and members of the Committee on Transportation and Public Utilities. My name is Greg Patton and I'm with the School District of Philadelphia and I am the Family Support Coordinator. I am here today to give testimony on Resolution 080396 and to tell you how the School District of Philadelphia partners with SEPTA to ensure the well-being of school children as well as increase safety to all SEPTA riders. Each day approximately 50,000 students ride SEPTA for the purpose of 133 4/17/08 - TRANSPORTATION - RES. 080396 traveling to or from school. The primary safety while students or any rider are on SEPTA is provided by SEPTA Police. The Philadelphia School District and SEPTA, however, have a shared interest in keeping the children of Philadelphia and all SEPTA riders safe. There are two main programs run by the School District of Philadelphia that operate with substantial support from SEPTA. The first is the truancy bus. In an effort to keep kids in schools and off the streets during the school day, SEPTA provides the District with the use of a bus and additional manpower to transport kids who are picked up during the truancy sweeps. Once on the bus, all of the students are taken to a truancy center and their parent or guardian is notified. The truancy bus is used as part of an overall strategy to combat truancy and accounts for 4,000 students picked up annually. Another initiative that the 134 4/17/08 - TRANSPORTATION - RES. 080396 District runs with the support of SEPTA is known as Safe Corridors. This effort, which also includes partners in the business community, the neighborhoods and the Philadelphia Police Department, is designed to provide additional support at designated locations as students travel to and from school. The program has increased -- provides increased police support along the corridors, as well as safe havens along those frequently traveled routes. Additionally, Safe Corridors allows for information exchange between the School District and its partners, including SEPTA. For example, if the District learns that there could be an altercation after school, we alert SEPTA school officials and our other partners so that appropriate support can be provided and that the situation can be properly handled. SEPTA is an important partner in the School District's effort to keep kids safe not only while they are in 135 4/17/08 - TRANSPORTATION - RES. 080396 school, but also as they travel to and from school. Thank you for allowing me to testify here today, and I would be happy to answer any questions from the Committee at this time.
Thank you. We'll hear your testimony before we answer questions.
Okay. Is there anyone else? Are you part of -- UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: I am. I'm just their escort now.
Another City Council employee make good. UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Mr. Whalen is here to help with support questions.
Thank you 136 4/17/08 - TRANSPORTATION - RES. 080396 for your testimony. In general, what do you see by way -- I'll ask it differently. How do you interact with SEPTA, the City's Police Department currently?
Currently, I coordinate with ten law enforcement agencies to work on the safe travel to school during the truancy hours, which is from 9:00 a.m. to 2:00 p.m. We start the year with an annual meeting with all ten law enforcement agencies together to plan how we're going to approach known hot spots, how we'll respond to new hot spots, because our kids are very good. Once they see that uniform presence, they move it. So we actually have a process where we can always keep up with the students.
To what degree do you regularly meet with SEPTA and the Philadelphia Police?
Your Philadelphia Police divisional inspectors are 137 4/17/08 - TRANSPORTATION - RES. 080396 required, in accordance with Deputy Commissioner Fox, to have monthly meetings with their principals, and as part of those meetings are ourselves, Philadelphia School District, SEPTA, and if there's any local universities within the close area to the schools, they participate as well. In addition, the regional superintendents of schools has monthly meetings that all parties participate in as well. Now, also we have daily communications with the proper commanders on the Frankford-Market Line as well as the Broad Street Line. We also have our relationship with the individual captains. If we get intelligence or vice versa, we communicate on a daily basis and we work together. I mean, obviously the Philadelphia School District could not do this alone without the support obviously of Philadelphia Police and SEPTA. It wouldn't be accomplished in the high regard that it is. 138 4/17/08 - TRANSPORTATION - RES. 080396
Generally, without naming schools, how many hot spot schools along SEPTA's Broad Street Line and/or elevated line are we talking about?
On the Broad Street Line, we're talking approximately a half dozen, and it fluctuates back and forth up the line. On the El, we have four majors and, again, it's a transit system and the trouble transits up and down the system.
That would be something that's worked out between the individual captain, ourselves and the principal. For instance, if we have a situation where today there's certain locations we think there's going to be problems, we might go to, say, your school if you were the principal and ask you to do dismiss 15 to 20 minutes earlier. Like Ms. Joyner stated earlier 139 4/17/08 - TRANSPORTATION - RES. 080396 with De La Salle, they do on a daily basis change the schedule of the different schools to alleviate certain problems, but usually we do it on a daily basis. Most schools dismiss between, say, quarter to 3:00 and quarter after 3:00 on a daily basis, unless there's an early dismissal day, such as tomorrow, where most of the students will get out at o'clock. 12
In your opinion, are these groups of young people organized gangs or just kids that are misguided?
I think some of these kids like to think they are gangs, but they're really not. What we find normally is that the community issues become the school issues. If there's an issue in the community -- it could be over a girlfriend -- they bring it into the school, or vice versa, if the school has a problem, they take it back into the community. But I don't find it to be as 140 4/17/08 - TRANSPORTATION - RES. 080396 much organized as people would give it credence to be.
To what degree is the motivation robbery versus juvenile delinquency per se?
I believe that delinquency is probably 60 percent, but there is a criminal element out there. There's a crime of opportunity. The doors are closed, the train is going to be underground, and 30 seconds that door is going to open, and there are six doors on each train. So we grab it, we run. So I believe 60 percent is just roughhousing and delinquency, but 40 I believe is robbery.
What are your recommendations for us as a municipality and any coordinating body that we might have? If you had three pointers, what would they be?
I haven't talked to my superiors, so I'm going to give you basically what I think is most important. 141 4/17/08 - TRANSPORTATION - RES. 080396 The schools need more support. We need more social services coming into, working with the community that those children come from. We have them for a good part of the day, but they wreak havoc in our buildings as well. So the social supports and the parents would be wonderful. Baltimore had a daytime curfew and it worked wonders.
I don't mean to interrupt you. To what degree is curfew an issue in this and what degree is truancy an issue in this?
Truancy is probably one of the biggest issues. Unfortunately, we have some laws on the books that haven't been enforced. We have some that need to be strengthened. Our retail merchandise people are under the understanding you don't serve children during the day. People build stores in front of a school for the purpose of getting rich. In my career 142 4/17/08 - TRANSPORTATION - RES. 080396 we've always asked our corner stores to stop serving our children when the school bell rings, and they have cooperated. The big franchises, your Dunkin Donuts, McDonald's, Burger King, they're not hearing us. So if you go out in any neighborhood and you see a child on the way to school late, you can almost bet a week's salary they're carrying a little black bag of chips, potato chips, a Dunkin Donut or McDonald's bag. So they're already late for school and they make another half hour stop to be later. The daytime curfew would give the truancy initiative more teeth. Right now we are working on the compulsory attendance law in Philadelphia. There is no law against truancy, but because of the state law compulsory attendance, we can stop a pedestrian that looks of school age and take them in for truancy. So I think we need a truancy ordinance or a daytime curfew or some variation of 143 4/17/08 - TRANSPORTATION - RES. 080396 both.
I'm a little confused, but I'm sure the Administration will give me clarity on that some day. I'm going to put a pin in that one as a possible suggestion to reinforcement what laws are on the books. But I want to thank you, and I recognize the hard work that you do. For the record, all of the crimes that are committed on SEPTA are not done by our young people.
I want to say that again. All of the crimes that are on mass transportation are not done by young people, but obviously they've taken center stage by way of some of the theatrical performances with the videos and things like that. We're going to pay attention to that. And I want to thank you, and if there's no other comments -- you have a question. I'm sorry. 144 4/17/08 - TRANSPORTATION - RES. 080396
Let me just make one comment also. Over 90 percent of our students are wonderful young people who are trying to get an education, but we do have a percentage of students that are troubled, and we're doing the best we can.
No. I understand. It's a difficult job. I wouldn't want it, sir. Trust me. Just a couple of quick questions. First, on your statement, Mr. Patton, about there are no laws on truancy, you threw me off there. I didn't realize there wasn't anything. Now, if a kid doesn't show up to school -- because I know Judge Summers is well known for bringing these kids in and scaring them three-quarters to death. There must be something.
The compulsory education law from ages 8 to 17 requires 145 4/17/08 - TRANSPORTATION - RES. 080396 every Pennsylvania (unintelligible) to be in an educational program. We use that that if you're 12, 15, out of school, 5 we can stop you for truancy. 6 Now, in the Family Courts, 7 again, they are using the compulsory 8 attendance law, and they've done some 9 fantastic things, anything from community 10 service, fines, whatever. But in 11 Philadelphia County, we don't have what 12 Upper Darby has. We don't even have what 13 Cheltenham has. 14
I think 15 we'll want to talk to you about what 16 those other counties have and what we can do, because obviously anything we can add, we'd certainly be more than willing to do that. And I certainly agree with the Chairman when he says that obviously not all the perpetrators by far are school students and certainly public school students. But I was wondering, do you keep any kind of record in your communication with SEPTA and the police 146 4/17/08 - TRANSPORTATION - RES. 080396 both perpetrators and victims that are students? Do you have anything like that?
We'd have to get you that information. We have a statistical unit. I'd have to go through my Chief, and obviously we would be more than glad to get you that information.
I think that might give us a lot of insight as to a little more detail about what's going on, who is committing the crime and who the victims often are.
Because the perception obviously is -- I don't have to tell you guys this -- that public schools get blamed for a lot of things. You know that better than I do. And I'd like to know. And also the victim thing, because I would think a lot of the victims are public school students also. Obviously we saw a few today, but...
One, I guess, last question. You talked about with the Chairman the problem schools, the half dozen, I think you said, at one time it could be. What kind of action is taken when some of these schools are identified? What communication is there with the principal? If you know, what does the principal then do?
Well, obviously we'd reach out to the principal, and if we know who some of the students are involved, the principal will bring them in, talk to them. If we feel it's deeper than -- it's a more serious issue, we'll bring in PAAN and Twist obviously, and we would notify Philadelphia Police Intelligence Unit too as well to see, as you spoke earlier about organized issues, to see if it would be on that level. But what we try to do is get these students not only the students from that particular school, but any students from any other schools, we'll notify 148 4/17/08 - TRANSPORTATION - RES. 080396 those schools as well, and then we'll monitor it from there. But we try to get them in, get the intelligence information, and obviously we communicate that with Philadelphia Police and SEPTA as well.
And obviously when Ms. Joyner was here, she talked about trying to communicate with a couple schools. And, again, I didn't hear that conversation between those schools, so I'm just going by what she said. Obviously the School District encourages those kind of conversations. So in this case, Franklin -- I forget the other school -- Parkway maybe, you want that communication obviously, right?
Well, Ms. Joyner made a great point. What we do is, if there's going to be a problem or expected problem, we'll have administrators from both schools come to that location, because now the students better -- we better identify with the students if the 149 4/17/08 - TRANSPORTATION - RES. 080396 administrators from the schools are at that location, and hopefully that prevents an incident. I mean, obviously what we try to do is be proactive. We don't want to be reactive.
Sure. And I have -- I think I gave the example earlier. I have seen that happen. This happened to be between a private school and a public school. But when that communication happened, again, it was just -- we talked about the changing of dismissal times, but that helped.
I think you hit a great point. I think one of the greatest accomplishments the School District has made, in addition as well as Philadelphia Police and SEPTA, is the communication level. We do work together. And that's just not from a law enforcement perspective; that's from an administrative perspective as well.
Okay. Thank you. 150 4/17/08 - TRANSPORTATION - RES. 080396
And I believe Ms. Joyner forgot, but there's a monthly meeting held by the captain of the 6th and the 9th District for that whole corridor, which includes Ben Franklin, Parkway, Mathematics and Civics, with SEPTA School Police and the Philadelphia Police attend.
That's a very good point, because I live in the 9th District and I remember -- it's now Captain Wilson, but it was Captain Cullen at the time -- talked about that, and he thought that was very helpful to have those constant discussions and communications. Great. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Before you go, I just want to say thank you for your testimony and say this, a couple of things that have come out of this. One, the origin of this problem didn't come from one thing, whether it was SEPTA, 151 4/17/08 - TRANSPORTATION - RES. 080396 whether it's communities, whether it's schools, but the solution for these problems won't come from one thing. It will be all of us kind of pitching in where we can to correct and right the ship and correct the problem. It is important that our young people be able to go to and from school in a safe manner. The challenges out here are immense. The competition is global, and the last thing they need to be worried about is how do I survive the SEPTA ride. So we got to work together on that. I'd like to thank all of the members of the Committee that came out, and thank you for your testimony. Are there any other parties that wish to testify? (No response.)
Thank you. Hearing none, we're going to recess this Committee. There may well be a report that comes out of this Committee based on some of the observations, and I want to thank everybody for their participation. Thank you. (Committee on Transportation and Public Utilities adjourned at 3:30 p.m.) - - - 153 CERTIFICATE I HEREBY CERTIFY that the proceedings, evidence and objections are contained fully and accurately in the stenographic notes taken by me upon the foregoing matter on April 17, 2008, and that this is a true and correct transcript of same. ______________________________ MICHELE L. MURPHY RPR-Notary Public (The foregoing certification of this transcript does not apply to any reproduction of the same by any means, unless under the direct control and/or supervision of the certifying reporter.)