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Committee Hearing, March 15, 2010

Minutes from Philadelphia City Council Committee Hearings, Mar 15, 2010

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Organizations mentioned

Mr. Glazer

Well, with the greatest respect, we'll leave that to the board, when we meet, to discuss.

Councilman Goode

With the 242 3.15.10 LAW & GOV'T - BILL 100121, RES. 100139 greatest respect, I actually helped to create the Board of Ethics, cosponsored legislation, and I'm still proud that I did so. But one of the questions that I ask, even as a proponent of the Board of Ethics and still a strong supporter of the Board of Ethics, except when they're making mistakes, is simply whether it's clear that from time to time, Council will ordain some things that will require a Charter amendment, and then it's the job of the Board of Ethics to enforce those changes to the Code and/or those changes to the Charter.

Mr. Glazer

What's the question, Councilman?

Councilman Goode

The question is: Do you disagree with that in terms of whether it's actually the board's job to focus on those provisions that exist within the Code and the Charter and to enforce those provisions that are within the Code or Charter, or whether the board 243 3.15.10 LAW & GOV'T - BILL 100121, RES. 100139 should be making decisions about legislation and public policy?

Mr. Glazer

Again, we're going to leave that up to the board for discussion. How I feel about it is not the critical issue but what the board will determine. And we welcome -- we're going to discuss this at our Wednesday meeting and certainly welcome to have anyone present for that discussion.

Councilman Goode

Okay. Thank you, Mr. Glazer.

Mr. Glazer

Thank you.

Councilman Greenlee

Councilman Green.

Councilman Green

Thank you for your testimony. Just a brief question: Do you think it's appropriate for the Board of Ethics to weigh in at all on pending Charter changes or legislation, considering the fact that, you know, what you were commissioned to do by the 244 3.15.10 LAW & GOV'T - BILL 100121, RES. 100139 Charter is enforce and interpret the laws? This seems like maybe staff resources should be spent on your mandate rather than telling us what you think about every piece of legislation. You know, you're -- that's basically my point.

Mr. Glazer

Is that the question?

Councilman Green

Yes.

Mr. Glazer

It doesn't really matter what I think, and it may well turn out that the board, when they meet, totally agrees with you, that it is not our prerogative to opine in any way. However, I will tell you that as part of the creation of the Board of Ethics, the Charter did provide that we were supposed to make legislative recommendations. So I see that that is part of it. Whether this falls within that, we'll leave it up to the board to 245 3.15.10 LAW & GOV'T - BILL 100121, RES. 100139 discuss.

Councilman Green

I think in your annual report, you are required to make any legislative recommendations you might have, that's correct. Thank you.

Mr. Glazer

Thank you.

Councilman Greenlee

Any other questions? (No further questions.)

Councilman Greenlee

Thank you both.

Mr. Creamer

Thank you.

Mr. Glazer

Thank you.

Councilman Greenlee

Last on my list, the Committee of Seventy. (Witnesses come forward.)

Councilman Greenlee

Good afternoon again.

Mr. Stahlberg

Mr. Chairman, thank you. Zack Stahlberg again and Ellen Mattleman Kaplan. I'll try to make this simple. You've seen our testimony. 246 3.15.10 LAW & GOV'T - BILL 100121, RES. 100139 I appreciate the fact that you're aiming toward the November ballot, that there will be an extended hearing on this question. I hope that all of the questions -- all of the issues in the package of ethics bills get extended hearing and separate hearings if that's practical. Our position may be affected by the idea of bifurcation, which, I think, came up officially today for the first time. So, in other words, I really appreciate the decisions today and will try to respond accordingly. The only thing I would add really as to Councilman Kelly is that my organization has a great deal of respect for committee people and ward leaders and deals with them and serves them every day.

Councilman Kelly

I'm glad to hear that. 247 3.15.10 LAW & GOV'T - BILL 100121, RES. 100139

Councilman Greenlee

Okay. Thank you. Councilman Goode.

Councilman Goode

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Stahlberg, there are two different views or types of authority. One is being an authority, which means you have a command of the subject matter; the other's being in authority, which means you have the actual power to make a decision. How should ethics policy be made in Philadelphia?

Mr. Stahlberg

Well, I'm not sure how the two parts of your question relate.

Councilman Goode

Who is an authority on ethics and who in authority on ethics?

Mr. Stahlberg

Well, we -- it's our belief that the citizens of Philadelphia decided that they were an authority and that they decided that 248 3.15.10 LAW & GOV'T - BILL 100121, RES. 100139 political-activity rules --

Councilman Goode

Mine is a broad question.

Mr. Stahlberg

I'm sorry?

Councilman Goode

Mine is a broad question. It's not specifically related to this. It's related to this matter but in general.

Mr. Stahlberg

I'd appreciate it if you could give it to me again, then.

Councilman Goode

All right. Who is in authority in terms of policy-making ethics? And who is an authority in terms of policy-making ethics? Describe to me how ethics policy-making should happen in Philadelphia.

Mr. Stahlberg

As it relates to this question --

Councilman Goode

I'm asking in general.

Mr. Stahlberg

I'm not sure how to answer that, really. 249 3.15.10 LAW & GOV'T - BILL 100121, RES. 100139

Councilman Goode

Okay, thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Councilman Greenlee

Thank you. Any other questions? (No further questions.)

Councilman Greenlee

Thank you both.

Mr. Stahlberg

Thanks.

Councilman Greenlee

Anyone else here to testify on this bill and resolution. (No response.)

Councilman Greenlee

Seeing none, after a snappy three-and-a-half hours, that will conclude the hearing of the Committee on Law and Government. We will now go into the public meeting. Again, for the record, as I mentioned earlier, Bill No. 100123 and Resolution 100140 are being held to the call of the Chair. The Chair now recognizes 250 3.15.10 LAW & GOV'T - BILL 100121, RES. 100139 Councilman Green regarding an amendment for Bill No. 100121.

Councilman Green

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I move the amendment which has been circulated to all members to Bill 8 No. 100121, and I move that it be approved. (Motion duly seconded.)

Councilman Greenlee

It's been moved and seconded. All those in favor, please say aye. Opposed? Hearing none, the amendment has been adopted. Again, the Chair recognizes Councilman Green.

Councilman Green

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I move that Bill No. 100121, as amended, be approved by this committee and that we have a suspension of the rules to enable first reading at our next 251 3.15.10 - LAW & GOV'T - PUBLIC MEETING session of Council. (Motion duly seconded.)

Councilman Greenlee

It's been moved and seconded. All in favor, say aye. Opposed? Hearing none, Bill No. 100121, has amended, has been reported out of this committee with a favorable recommendation, and the rules of Council have been suspended to allow for first reading at our next session of Council. Again, the Chair recognizes Councilman Green.

Councilman Green

I move that Resolution No. 100139 be reported out of committee with a favorable recommendation. (Motion duly seconded.)

Councilman Greenlee

All in favor please, say aye. Opposed? Hearing none, Resolution 100139 is being reported out of this committee 252 3.15.10 - LAW & GOV'T - PUBLIC MEETING with a favorable recommendation. That concludes the business of the Committee on Law and Government. Thank you all very much. (Proceedings end at 4:30 p.m.) * * * 253 C E R T I F I C A T E I HEREBY CERTIFY that the proceedings of the City of Philadelphia Council Committee on Law and Government are contained fully and accurately in the stenographic notes taken by me on Monday, March 15, 2010, and that this is a true and correct statement of same. __________________________________ JOSEPHINE CARDILLO Registered Professional Reporter (The foregoing certification of this transcript does not apply to any reproduction of the same by any means, unless under the direct control and/or supervision of the certifying reporter.)