I'm not sure.
Counsel, what is the name of the individual?
MacDonald.
Yeah, M-C-D-O-N-N-E-L-L.
Kevin.
I have a hand up for my number ending in 6259.
Let's see who that is.
Right away.
I've been allowed to talk.
Mr. McDonald?
Please unmute.
Once again, sir or madam, please unmute and wait to be sworn in.
Mr. McDonald?
Mr. McDonald.
Yes, I may be having a technical difficulty, so you can proceed.
Alan, you're an officer of the court, and we'll accept your testimony.
Thank you.
Questions from the board?
you said that the okay can i see this plant again so on the first floor we're going to have
this church and the beauty salon beauty salon yeah the the beauty salon is an existing use
it's on the left hand side let me uh it is approximately 800 square feet and the church
is approximately 1500 square feet let me just say that okay so for the church how many people
are going to be uh the congregation's around like 20 to 30 right now um okay you know it's not a
large congregation all right but i mean i'm not seeing like pews or benches no it's a very informal
setting like they're also going to have like um you know just play it's a place of just gathering
the congregation beyond sunday but not that much and let me just uh
yeah it's just community activities and such there are many members of the of that church
that live nearby in that community and they're basically um don't have a a static place to
to congregate okay but let me get let me get you the the floor plans
there we go so as you can see here this is the salon space and that's existing and i believe
it's been existing since either 2006 or 7 and there's a permit of record and this is not the
subject of today's special exception request what is the subject of today's special exception
request is the commercial empty space on the right-hand side that was previously a furniture
store and has been empty for some time. We're seeking to have that as the congregation space
and for gatherings and community events for that congregation. Again, it's not a large space. It's
not small. It's 1,500 square feet, and the congregation is only 20 to 30 people.
okay and you said they're all in the neighborhood is that they're located nearby so we're not going
to have traffic issues no no and and we're on a bus route of 65 and 105 and the trolley line of
t1 but that's right there's they're mostly walking there okay and the beauty salon is
Beauty salon is the same.
the same well i know it's not part of this yeah i mean
Well, I know it's not part of this.
Yeah, I mean, it's a neighborhood beauty salon.
Thank you.
There's not, again, I haven't been there.
And I don't need it, really.
But, like, but, you know, and then the therapist's office is already on the second floor.
I'm not 100%.
I think it's a legalization on the third story.
But, you know, it's been there.
the second floor at least has been there for almost you know 2006 or 7 almost a generation
so okay it's been medical the whole time yeah it's been a therapist office the whole time okay
and you said there were how many six i think believe there's six offices there
so but the plans here let me just go to here so you have one two three there's a print there's a
photocopy room over here, a few bathrooms,
a little waiting area here, some storage.
That's the second story.
I can move this thing over.
Let me stop sharing my screen for a second
and like see if I can move this over.
All right, let me reshare my screen.
See if we can do this again.
All right, let's try to enlarge this right here, if I can, there we go, uh, so it looks
like there's one, that's the fourth office, fifth office, and sixth office, and then there's
meaning area are we gonna have uh uh noise issues i mean i don't know how what kind of
worship services or services this church is going to have but are we looking at
are we concerned about the noise that may be generated and how that might affect the other
uses within the building so i think the complementary um because the church is going
to be congregating on sundays where the doctor's offices i don't believe those hours of operation
are on sundays okay i can't speak for the beauty salon but i think they're complementary in nature
okay all right actually i'm looking at my notes the beauty salon is actually closed on sundays
and Mondays. So they're definitely complementary in nature. Other questions? Thank you. Yes. Do you
have a sense of the concerns of the RCO? I know they wanted a contingent approval based on the
sort of tenancy of the building, but looking at the block, it looks like everything on that block
is either a religious space or a beauty-related business. So I was curious as to what made them
decide that this one needed to be temporary.
So all I can tell you is I think they were very adamant
that they want to improve their commercial corridor.
They had nothing against the church itself.
They just wanted something else there.
And we stated, well, we've been trying for some time.
And there is a need in the community for this congregation
to find a static place.
And I agree.
I saw, like when I was looking at the photos,
The contextual photos to the left is a huge church, it looks like, down the block.
But I think there's a need for certain people in this community to meet.
And then was there a previous special exception already approved?
Are we sort of legalizing the three businesses that have already existed?
No, the church is not in there currently.
No, I don't believe so.
No, because there's a church in there on Google Maps.
so i can't tell you i don't believe it's that i honestly don't know the the beauty salon is legal
because from previous permits and then the second floor is definitely illegal for the therapist's
office based on what i'm seeing from the pictures and i'm not 100 sure that may be a legalization
it was a previously i i think an apartment at one point the building says it was a law office
okay i i looked at i i thought i said somewhere it was an apartment one of the permits
said the third story was an apartment at one point.
But it could have been.
Who knows how far back, though?
All right.
Other questions?
I have a quick question. So there's a lot going on in the building.
Could you go back to the
drawings so I can see what's happening
at the rear of the building and
exits for each
business on the
first floor? Yeah, they each do.
So let me try to get...
Let me try to get...
Oh, jeez.
Oh, jeez, that's not...
And is there a rear yard or no?
There is for each one.
So they both have rear access, both of them.
So here's the rear access for the beauty salon.
And I can drag my cursor, and here's the rear access for the church right here.
And is that where trash and...
Yeah, I would believe so.
I would believe so.
i don't believe there's a basement for this property so yes i would think that the trash
would be stored in the rear again both the there's you know there's a kitchenette there
there's no cooking on the premises it's a very light use in terms of the amount of hours of
operation for the church and i would think it's grab and go a lot in terms of cleanup
for the beauty salon it's very light you know in terms of the trash during the week
questions from our attorney
no chair
questions or comments from the audience
or the virtual audience
yes chair the individual with the number
ending in 6259
if I raise their hand again
I'm going to allow them to speak one more time
number ending in 6259
could you please state your name
I think the person has got two devices
please turn off your other device
if you have another one on please thank you it's star six to unmute
yeah i don't i don't think that's working well
okay cleaning commission
good afternoon i'm sorry to interrupt you mr chair there's three other hands raised okay
the first hand is gregory allen i've allowed them to speak
hi could you please state your name and spell for the stenographer yes sir chair my name is
gregory allen g-r-e-g-o-r-y-a-l-l-e-n right do you swear or affirm to tell the truth the
whole truth and nothing but the truth yes sir i do you a neighbor i am um i am the charity rco
and please proceed of the of overbrook west neighbors yep
please proceed okay so um you are correct there there has was virtually no objection
to the existing tenants who have been there for a long time or to legalizing the third floor.
I think the objection of most neighbors had to do with a religious assembly on the ground floor.
And while we recognize the good that the religious assembly might do, Ms. Gaston is correct. There are six other congregations within the area, all of whom will impact the area.
In addition, Ms. Wynn is correct that there have been a similarity to the businesses that have been in the area.
And we've been working to diversify that a little bit.
There are quite a few vacancies.
Some of that has to do with the church occupancy on the 6200 block of Lancaster.
And it also concerns us that at the time of the request for this variance, simultaneous to it, that the owner had the property up for sale, I believe he entered into a lease with the tenant prior to the property being approved as a religious assembly, and then later withdrew the property from sale.
And when we asked him why there was signage on the property as a religious assembly withdrew that as well. So we never had an opportunity to review the lease. Again, we didn't know that they were asking for 2029. We were thinking two years, three years maximum, but that's a four year lease.
and so um that that's not consistent with our understanding there there's also one other person
on this call that would like to be heard um who is the president of the overrook farms
um club the local neighborhood association okay um thank you very much for taking the time to
Thank you very much for taking the time to call. Alan, do you have any questions?
calls alan do you have any questions no
No. I mean, the only thing I would state is that if the board feels that the, I guess, four-year temporary variance is too long and they want to put the church on a shorter time frame, we defer to the board in that respect.
All I would say, it's a very expensive, long, this is a very expensive, long process for many, and it's a non-profit, and we would hope that the board would take that into account.
Thank you.
And the next person on the list.
Yes, Thaddeus Squire.
I will let him speak.
Good afternoon.
Thanks.
Can you hear me?
Thaddeus, could you please state your name and spell for the stenographer?
Thaddeus Squire, T-H-A-D-D, as in David, E-U-S.
Last name, S-Q-U-I-R-E.
Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth?
Yes, indeed.
And you're a neighbor.
I am a neighbor.
Sorry.
Please proceed.
Yeah, I'm a neighbor and also chair of the Overbrook Farms Club, which is the RCO adjacent to Overbrook West neighbors.
And we do actually share some jurisdictional overlap on 63rd Street in the Commercial Corridor, which is the reason I'm here today.
uh and i i can echo very briefly um you know first of all just to to respond to a couple comments um
from the owner's representation um you know the owner i i understand is a for-profit and private
owner i'm assuming they're bearing the cost uh for this variance as it's their obligation and
not the church so i just want to uh state that as a question uh to the previous comment and to
board member Wynn's comment about the other churches on the corridor, you know, from our
research, we do not see that they are zoning compliant. They are actually there not in a
compliant manner, and that has just simply not been challenged. So I don't think there's real
precedent for this kind of exception legally on the corridor. We certainly support the upper
store uses, as well as the hair salon. No objections there. We also have nothing against
certainly places of worship and faith communities. In the neighborhood, there are quite a few.
But we also see lots of purpose-built churches where a congregation like this could find a home
instead of a perfectly viable commercial storefront. And so we share Mr. Allen's