ZBA Hearing - July 30, 2025

kind of and there's a house a single family house behind that

so the goal is that the new garage

will kind of fit into this niche on top of already kind of impervious area in order to provide them

better access so that they can enter more without kind of scraping the side of the car as they get

in so they have appropriate bays that they can have storage space which really can kind of

initially compelled this and to have sort of a studio space upstairs or workshop when the plan

was originally presented to the RCO they did propose to have a kind of more

traditional sized roof that would make the height of the building so that they

could have the second-story workshop to be 90 21 feet nine and a half inches in

height um and again as i mentioned the neighboring property has kind of the 25

foot height so that it would still be kind of in scale and slightly lower but provide for this

functional space um as i think you guys are aware the rco did submit a letter expressing that there

that their members themselves lacked support for this proposal and um when they initially went to

present this proposal it was expressed by members of the community or members

of the RCO sorry because there was one neighbor that attended that wasn't

support of this proposal the RCO themselves were concerned about the

scale and in terms of the fact that it looked residential to them so that it

could potentially be used for an ADU despite the fact that there's no kind of

kitchen presented are being proposed here. The owners are

not proposing a residential secondary residence here. And

as I think you guys all know, there are kind of regulations

governing that so if a future owner had such an interest, they

you know, would be obligated to comply with the law. At that

meeting, they did suggest kind of varying this to lower the

height to provide a dormer route, that would make it look

more like an accessory structure and so fred worked with his architect martin hebert who

prepared this plan and is with me this afternoon to consider kind of what modifications could be

made to address the rco while still providing this kind of functional additional space

based upon the feedback they did

drop down this roof to create a dormer roof but in evaluating it they you know realized that you know

The eight foot height ceiling is not a particularly high ceiling.

The idea is that the second floor is for use as a workshop,

and if you lower it, you're ending up with a crawl space

that doesn't provide kind of the reasonable use

of what they're looking for here.

And as you know, kind of these types of accessory uses

kind of these types of accessory uses are permitted in this district it's really just

are permitted in this district.

It's really just.

about the kind of size here that we're asking for a dimensional variance for um

so you know but you did lower date we did so in dropping it down we lowered it down to 22

feet two inches and actually at the dormer side it's 18 feet eight inches so we're 15 feet so it

does make it lower down kind of both visibly and kind of functionally to you know the higher side

of the roof the garage was you know not otherwise reduced because the additional storage and

workshop space was really what compelled the proposal and when they initially designed this

project they did consider alternate proposals on the property such as an addition to the house that

could provide that because they cannot have this kind of storage in the basement here but however

as i mentioned there's really mature landscaping all over the property there's the hundred year old

trees kind of right nearby that would all have to be taken down to provide additional impervious

whereas this was a location that really did have two structures right side by side to them and here

they're just proposing to basically push them together and create one that is more streamed

lined and will look nice kind of in the community you see this from the street you cannot see this

from the street it will be buffered so we did um

i'm having difficulty hearing i think she just walked away or backed up she's trying

get the computer for i i we hear you mr kelly sorry thank you make this smaller so that you

could see so this is kind of a proposed rendering if you drove up the driveway and took a left you

would see that you would not actually be able to see the house itself at the exact same time

there's kind of all of this mature landscaping that lines the driveway down this to the road

and it's kind of tucked into this little niche right there.

And Fred did actually reach out to his neighbors

and we have included five letters of support.

Some of them are actually non-opposition,

but within those kind of neighboring letters,

they noted things such as the fact

that they wouldn't be able to see it,

that they didn't see that this would

kind of have any sort of impact.

And there are actually very similar structures

in this neighborhood.

this kind of you know Philadelphia they're micro communities so this particular micro community has

a lot of larger scale homes that do have a lot of larger scale kind of detached structures so it is

aligned with what is kind of neighboring as I mentioned which would be higher and then even

we took got a couple photos of ones that were visible sorry can you hear me now that were

visible from the street that are also kind of two-story garage structures that are right

neighboring so this isn't going to actually change the makeup of the community it shouldn't have any

negative impact on the health safety and welfare and the goal is that it's really just an improvement

of the fact that there was kind of a dilapidated structure next to a very small garage that didn't

function it was hard to get into based upon the kind of unique shape of this property

i did kind of include i don't know that you guys want me running through it but we included the

deed the agreement of sale the notice of refusal and all of that with our package

um and i do have uh fred his wife is with me but fred's sitting right next to me

who could adopt my testimony and martin is also here who's the architect on the project why don't

we uh move the pull that close to you turn it on it's green so i'm so much on yeah yeah uh could

you please state your name and spell for the stenographer uh excuse me uh frederick gerhardt

F-R-E-D-E-R-I-C-K-G-E-R-H-A-R-T.

Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth,

the whole truth, and nothing but the truth?

I do.

Please proceed, counsel.

Fred, did you hear my presentation?

I did.

And was my presentation accurate,

and would you adopt this as your own testimony?

Yes, it was accurate, and yes, I adopted it, yes.

um and um i don't have further questions for you i anticipate the board might all right

questions from the board yes did you say did you say that you uh have a letter of support

by your right that the neighbor that's right adjacent to um where this um garage was proposed

so so yes one of the one of the neighbors um that's immediately adjacent does have a letter

one of the one of the neighbors um that's immediately adjacent does have a letter of

support the one thing that we did do and it's in our package here

is that there was proposed to be kind of a window facing them that's not part of kind of the zoning

here but the in agreement with them they removed that window so that there wasn't something looking

into their yard okay and they otherwise have a letter that says that they're in support of this

All right. Thank you.

Is there an updated subdivision plan?

So because it's in an agreement of sale, we would agree to kind of a proviso that says that we would be required to consolidate.

Ryan, are we allowed to do that?

Because that was going to be my question, because now we're subdividing something that's completely landlocked on all sides by residential properties, which we generally try not to prove.

As I understood it, it was a, what do you call it,

a change of the laundry line?

So that is now part of our lot.

It's not a separate piece of ground.

I mean, it's not separately deeded.

So it was a lot line relocation.

Exactly.

It was not a subdivision.

It's a lot line.

That's what they call it, a lot line adjustment.

And I think we have that.

We have an agreement of sale, and that's what would happen.

It wouldn't be its own separately unlocked lot.

it would be a become a part of um this 3810 the current property that we're here to discuss

council uh i don't have an exact answer off the top of my head it's something i would i would

need to look into but i but in terms of yeah i i do not know the answer off the top of my head

can i chime in a little more on kind of the legal side of it so it's sort of like a tenant that

comes in you know you have or you have we have equitable rights to that property so if you were

to grant this and for whatever reason that little piece of property didn't didn't close

we would have no rights to do that because we'd have no they would have no interest in that kind

I know, but we see these little ones that nobody's paid attention to.

I mean, we've had three in the last month that came to us that were these leftover pieces.

And then for the driveway right now, the driveway is only on your property, correct?

It is.

And the new garage or the old garages or the old buildings that are tearing down,

there adjacent or does additional construction need to be done to extend the asphalt drive to

this new structure well you're talking about the dilapidated garage that was torn down yeah the

one that was torn down because there was two right there was two there were two right next to each

other about six feet apart okay um and uh yeah the one that was torn down there now is a asphalt

that goes to the end of the driveway and then it's gravel uh right now to the left of that uh

and there's a hardscape uh where the old garage was the one that was torn down um i guess it's

called hardscape okay and then my second question is um are you planning to do automatic doors

yes and so will this i understand that you said like second floor is going to mostly be

storage and general use,

but is there going to be

a separate electric meter

and water line extension to the...

No, the existing garage

that's still there

has water, electricity,

and a drain,

I mean a waste drain.

But wouldn't those be connected

to the old property

that it needs to be connected to?

Well, we'll end up,

because I assume any,

you know, 10 years from now,

we're all going to be

driving electric cars,

so I want to put, you know,

better electricity in there so i can put some chargers in there um and then and the water will

probably upgrade it because it's been there for 100 years or over 100 years and the drain um i

think as well do you know it has a separate sewage drain or is it tied into the house at 38 it's

tied into the house right now it's high time at stokely street on yoke road yes yeah no well

it should be tied into the stokely street oh there's i don't they don't have any drainage

from the old garage the dilapidating garage okay not that i'm aware of anyway i mean i've been

there and i haven't seen anything just to be clear i think that the water is connected to

the current garage that's on the current property remember there's two garages and

that water line is connected to his house so it wouldn't be there the garage for 3810 yeah correct

so we wouldn't need to be moving a line from okay the neighboring property okay

that was my question yes questions from our attorney

that was my question yes questions from our attorney uh no chair questions or comments

from the virtual audience or the current audience yes chair i have a hand up from hillary nanger

i will melton

they should be back in shortly

mr langer yeah good afternoon this is mr langer you won't have been sworn in

just for the record state your name hillary j langer chair of east falls community council

zoning committee why don't you uh proceed with your testimony thank you um despite improvements

to the second floor aesthetic our position is opposed the proposed structure with full ac

improved running water and what looks like a 25 by 47 footprint which is 11 by

1,175 square foot footprint over two levels is oversized. It far exceeds the dimensional

requirements for an accessory structure, and its footprint will not even fit within that of

the primary structure. Albeit out of sight, due to mature trees, these trees are always vulnerable

to windstorms, such as the tornado that removed all the trees in the Fort Washington neighborhood.

Precars, the workshop, and storage can amply fit within the required dimensional standard

for an accessory structure. This is an accessory structure of overwhelming size, exceeding many

footprints of homes within East Falls, and we therefore oppose it, in that it will weaken

the character of detached single-family homes with these accessory structures.

Mr. Langer, can you see it from the street?

You cannot.

Okay, thank you.

However, the trees, I feel in my experience, are temporary.

The estate is being over 100 years old. That is an old tree, and it's only a matter of time before a tornado rips through East Falls, and suddenly the sedition is very visible.

All right. Counsel, do you have any questions?

well just briefly kind of in response the the scale of this particular accessory dwelling

would not actually fit inside of the current home it is a larger home and it is scaled in line with

this particular neighborhood while i understand that there are other neighborhoods or other even

parts of east falls that are denser and so they're perhaps smaller residences this area it really is

aligned and it will not have a negative impact on the character

of this kind of streetscape

or be kind of larger or out of place as to, as I mentioned,