civus
Hearing video

ZBA Hearing - May 25, 2021

Philadelphia Zoning Board of Adjustment (ZBA)May 25, 20212h 40m

And this is the zoning materials for Play 2, which described it as an expansion of an existing restaurant.

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And as you can see in the zoning materials, it's part of the building.

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And I think you can even see it in the applicant's materials that there's an internal connection between the two.

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I believe they share a kitchen too.

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Okay. Tell us about that. So I'm just going to show an aerial photograph of the neighborhood. Fair to say that this is in a residential neighborhood.

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Very fair to say. Absolutely. Densely packed residential neighborhood.

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And this second photo here shows the rear of Chickie and Pete's, as well as the rear of many homes on Curtin Street, just right next door, essentially.

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and uh is this accurate yes okay you have members indeed board members who own some of those houses

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is that correct yes it is okay now we get to the proposal at hand why does the community not want

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it objection she's not supposed to speak for the community why does the for 30 years i'm not

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i'm not supposed to speak for the community are you kidding me barbara barbara miss capozzi

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supposed to speak for the community are you kidding me barbara barbara miss capozzi that's

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that's the that's the those are the rules guys guys we've established we've established we only

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had 10 minutes to present our case would you like me to bring all the other people on

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all right i'm not going to argue with you and they took up three three of the four hearings

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the applicant had three of the four hearings and they went on for multiple multiple hours

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all right okay we've had less than two hours you have a question from mr bonnie please

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yeah my suggestion is to let the neighborhood person speak that's my suggestion please

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um miss kaposi if you could be unmuted please sunk it

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just waiting okay thank you um

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why does your organization oppose um oppose this proposal

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hello she's on she please unmute her

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she has to unmute herself okay barbara we can if you stop muting me i i never saw anything so

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ridiculous okay gambling hurts people it destroys family it depletes savings it causes divorces

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and she finished the casino and that's why we don't want this that's what i heard at the

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meetings that we've had that's what i heard when people knock on my door at home that's what i

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heard when people come into my office okay i don't make it up i have other things to do in my life

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people are vulnerable and they're even more vulnerable now with covid there's there's no

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doubt that covid has destroyed the uh the it's just destroyed the fabric of our society

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Ms. Kaposi, Ms. Kaposi, I realize that you respect Pete Chiraki, is that correct?

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Very much. He's a very good businessman, and he's a Mr. Promoter.

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And if he wanted to try and make more money by subletting all or a part of his premises for another use or another type of business, you and your organization would try their best to work with him, is that correct?

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We always have, yes.

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I want to run by you a few businesses which normally might be expected to be in the generic assembly and entertainment use category and ask you just as a bunch of, I'll ask all at once, if your community would be okay with these things.

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A bowling alley, a gymnasium, a health club, or indoor swimming, tennis, or skating.

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If you wanted to do any of that, would you be okay with that?

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Absolutely.

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They're family friendly.

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They're not addictive.

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They don't hurt people.

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Thank you.

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And we would enjoy that very much.

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Thank you.

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Do you have any concluding remarks?

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I do.

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Pete is an excellent businessman.

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He's a master promoter.

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There is no doubt that his business will survive, even being this close to the casino.

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He testified that he needs this gambling to succeed.

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he should be embarrassed to even say anything so ridiculous that's absolutely not true and to

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subject this neighborhood that's always embraced him and has begged him not to do this and many

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many people have begged him not to do this myself included to continue to propose this application

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when you know that everybody is dead set against it except maybe your cousin and a few employees

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that's absolutely a disgrace thank you miss Kaposi do you have any questions Mr. Mattione

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I have a couple of quick questions where was the um I would like to be able to share my screen

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briefly oh hold on let me stop sharing and Ms. Capozzi where was the RCO meeting held

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the RCO meeting was held um across the street at the felladium it was supposed to be outside

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but um in which we we had a hard time because of the city's ridiculous lockdown restrictions

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we had a hard time finding a place in february well this is february we were going to be in the

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tent outside but because of the snow we could not be because the snow was laying on the roof of the

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tent okay okay one person at a time well he asked me a question and i'm answering him okay go ahead

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mr bonnie i have nothing to say i just was going to suggest that mr mattione ask his next question

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thank you. And you would describe the phalladium as a family-friendly place? Yes. Neighborhood spot?

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Okay. Isn't it true that this is a picture from the inside of the phalladium?

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I really couldn't say. And isn't it true that this shows Pennsylvania seal game right inside

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this family-friendly phalladium that doesn't have the game segregated or anything. Anybody

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walking into the palladium can walk right up

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to this gambling Pennsylvania

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Pennsylvania skill game. It's right there on the bar inside the play team. Isn't that true,

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skill game. It's right there on the bar inside

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the palladium. Isn't that true, Ms. Capozzi?

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Ms. Capozzi? If that wasn't legal, it wouldn't be there.

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But you're opposing... That's not the question.

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Isn't that true, though, that's right there? I really don't know what that is, and I don't

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know what it has to do with this. It has everything to do with this, because you're sitting here

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saying that you're opposing a totally segregated, totally controlled, small sports betting parlor

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of 2,600 square feet while across the street at the family-friendly bar where you held your RCO

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meeting, they have on the bar itself Pennsylvania skill games where you can go in and gamble and

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there's no segregation. Children could walk right up. Michael, there's no comparison whatsoever.

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And I have nothing to do with the phalladium. Barbara, Barbara, Barbara, Barbara. There's no

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comparison. Barbara, please answer the question. Mr. Mattione, are you accusing the phalladium

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of having an illegal gambling game mr bonnie let's not go down that well he

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he's making he's making the comparison now you know that and i know that no no i don't not look

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he's not looking to get anybody in trouble i don't know what that game is do you know what

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that i don't know what that game is it says pennsylvania skill what do i know i don't know

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all right all right red herring let's go move on it's not a red herring it just shows that

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In your neighborhood, there is already gambling.

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It's much more accessible than the casino, the casino, I'm sorry, the sports book inside

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proposed inside of Chickies and Peaks.

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Is that your best argument, Michael?

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I have no further questions for Ms. Proposal.

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Barbara, you're supposed to answer the question.

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I have no further questions for Mr. Proposal.

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All right, I have a question.

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Could you go back to the original, Paul, go back to the slide that shows the protesters

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outside?

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Yes.

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Yes, I will.

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uh well i have one of them easily accessible i don't know if you want to see all three of them

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here's one of that i think that one is the one i was looking for um thank you

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uh no it's not the one that i see i can find the other ones

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well whatever the let's go to the petition if you haven't the petition ms capozzi testified that

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there's 1300 plus signatories yeah and i'm looking at the petition i was wondering

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this did the people who signed the petition were they made aware of exactly what is being proposed

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here or were they of the opinion that this was going to be an extension of a casino because

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the word parks casino could be misleading meaning the casino in in its truest sense

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it's very clear table games table games sports bar and paramutual betting we took the words

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exactly from the the zoning application and a zoning lawyer made this up chicky since pete's

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proposed sports book i just was curious when you see the word with parks casino well it is with

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parks casino are you saying we were lying no i didn't say that barbara i would never

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okay it is it not with parks casino i didn't say that i said the word casino can be misleading

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i'm not suggesting it was done in a nefarious way i'm asking of the signatories and most of them are

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they're not even signatures they're printed a lot of these a lot of the names have been printed

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they're not real signatories this is where we're going mr mr chairman that's sad this is really

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sad what's sad this is where we're going all the issues in this case and this is where we're going

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there's plenty of them that are printed that are i'm just saying there are a number there are a

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number of them that are printed and i'm just asking was it explained to the signator quite

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for the signatories that this was not going to be a casino that's all i'm asking that's that

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shouldn't be a hard question okay it is quite clear just from the face of that

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i'm looking at that just from the face of that exactly what it was well it's clear to you but

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i'm wondering if it was clear to other people that's all i'm asking i'm not criticizing why

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don't we bring them in why don't we have another hearing and waste more time well if you consider

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it a waste of time i suggest that this hearing is concluded okay my suggestion no no more

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suggestions closing statements let's go okay well my question is do we want to do that now or do we

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want to do it tomorrow because tomorrow we have 50 something cases on there i understand my closing

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statement this is this is a joke for some people we're not going to get we're not going to accommodate

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to some people we're not going to get we're not going to accommodate it any longer

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it anyone i think

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i think we've heard enough testimony if my board disagrees please speak up mr chairman my closing

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statement's about 15 minutes i don't know if we can handle tanya we we're we're in trouble there

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aren't we at 12 15 we will shut everything down my suggestion to be shut down my suggestion is

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that we close the record and have closing arguments as asap on another day well on another

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day on another day we have too many cases so then it'll take it to another day excuse me this is

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sharon could you perhaps um close the record aside from written closing statements that will

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be submitted by the attorneys right and we're not shutting it down because we don't want to hear

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from folks we just don't have the ability to continue this case we have thousands of cases

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that we're trying to get off the docket and this is the fourth hearing so so so why don't i let's

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do that why don't i give a condensed version of my closing and submit the rest for the submit the

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remainder for the record if you can do it in uh three minutes i can't do it in three minutes i

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i'm not being sarcastic we got to shut down there's there are other there are other people

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who need this zoom uh call or whatever technically we can't do it any further mr chairman our

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presentation was interrupted extensively today we tried our best to get this done quickly we could

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not given the barrage of interruptions i would like to make a call i would like that's an unfair

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that's an unfair statement we're a board we have a we have the obligation to ask questions

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of witnesses that's not you can you can call it an interruption i call it doing our job

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trying to get to the issue fair enough but i would like i believe i i would like to make a

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closing argument now or on another day for 15 minutes i'm happy to work with your schedule

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i'm not trying to delay things we tried our best to do this today i think if we close the record

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and have closings on another day it will be a half an hour at the max 15 minutes for me 15

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for Mattione, Mr. Mattione, and we can call it and you can make your decision. But this is a

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very important matter. There are a lot of issues here. I have a, we work very hard on this closing

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argument and we would like to have the time to present it. And I think you will, you and your

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colleagues, you know, will find it interesting. And as I'm sure you will, Mr. Mattione is closing

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also excuse me mr bonnie if the chair agrees to do that and you're in the middle of your closing

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it's going to be stopped are you comfortable with that i'll commit to 15 minutes period

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period and that's up to the chair you can mute me that worked for mr matione

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there are two sides of this mr matione mr chairman i don't have a problem with doing

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a closing argument i just wanted as soon as possible i don't want to have to wait another

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three months we agree well it's not your choice paul i'm saying we agree with you all right he

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agrees that you don't want to delay joining you in your request for an expeditious half an hour

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at some point over the next week or two why can't they do it in writing why can't this be done in

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writing honestly chair this is tanya honestly we don't have anything available within the next two

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weeks i concur with um council who requested written closing that's what we'll do okay thank

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you i i want to i would just would like to state my objection for the record that we're

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being denied the ability to give our closing argument

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an oral argument that's right that's what i said that's what okay all right no no worries all right

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um what's my notes what is the argument do mr chairman i i haven't a clue let me say all right

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i don't i don't i'm not being sarcastic i just i don't know obviously what would you want mike

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what would you want i would want no more than a week that's fine with me what we're going to we're

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going to close this the record will be closing you'll have to submit written arguments within

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and we'll within a week correct within so that we'll have them by next wednesday next wednesday

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being the 20 what is it uh 30 uh june 2nd june 2nd all right so mi 2020-001532

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1526 packer avenue the record is closed the board uh with the exception that both sides

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parties will submit written testimony as to their closing arguments, at which time the board will

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make a decision at its next executive session. Mr. Chairman, can we say for the heck of it that

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Mr. Chairman, can we say for the heck of it that it's 5 p.m. on June the 2nd?

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it's 5 p.m. on June the 2nd?

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That our written is due?

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Yes.

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No, wouldn't that be the 1st, June 1st?

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Well, he said Wednesday. I don't care which day.

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But it's due Wednesday, June 2nd.

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You tell me when the deadline is. Just tell us when the deadline is.

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By 5 p.m. June. Is it June 2nd, Tanya?

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you that's wednesday frank yes june 2nd 5 p.m thank you mr chairman thank you all thank you

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thank all right thanks to the board and again everyone behind the scenes who makes all this

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stuff happen we appreciate it absolutely thank you guys have a good one everyone thank you

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you too

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