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Hearing video

ZBA Hearing - October 23, 2024

Philadelphia Zoning Board of Adjustment (ZBA)Oct 23, 20246h 7m

were there in the basement there's the one exit from the basement there's a set of steps on the

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side um that have been encased so on the side of the building where you see it kind of like

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bulge out i guess or come out there are that is a set of steps and there is an emergency door

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that you can use from the basement that would allow you to come right outside and then there's

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the other original brown colored steps that you would exit with as well so there's two exits from

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the basement from the lower level and you go to the plans so right okay right

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can you go to the plans so right okay right no okay i'm i'm heading right there now let me make

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this smaller is that in full view for everyone right so there's one stair from the basement

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that enters through the staging area right and then here it goes upstairs to the entrance to

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exits to the driveway yes thank you question um alcohol there's no liquor license for this

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property there's no liquor license application for this property so there's no bar as you can

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see structure here it will be just as my client said it it'll be simply a rented space for uh

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gatherings that are and that folks uh bring in so how does that how does that work with the byob

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at this point she's not i haven't i haven't understood that she's looking to do byob type

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of events at the space i guess my question is um is a by it could a by could somebody have an event

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and do a BYOB within this zoning classification?

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And maybe that's a question.

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I see.

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I understand.

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Generally, for BYOB restaurants, and this is not particularly that,

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I probably would let my client explain what her vision is

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and how she would like to proceed with that.

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But I don't think that we have not had any discussions about alcohol at this point.

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So, Ms. Scott, you're here. You're answering the question of the board is, is there an immediate desire for you to have BOIB or alcohol-related events at your space?

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To be quite honest with everyone, that is not my desire at all. I have no intention of serving alcohol. I really don't like the effects of alcohol. I do not wish for my facility to be damaged. Let me just leave that with that.

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I am concerned as well as anyone else. The intake of alcohol and the capacity in which people

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could become intoxicated. I don't want my glass broken. I don't want any accidents. So

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I tend to not put myself in situations that could lead to stuff like that. It doesn't mean it'll be

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100% avoidable, but that's not my thought when I think about that. As I stated, like children's

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parties, repasses,

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baby showers, maybe

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even a brunch.

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I'm not

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trying to sell alcohol. I'm not

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applying for a liquor license. I don't

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really know how BYOBs work because

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that's the only, I only see those things

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in like restaurants. So I'm

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not really knowledgeable in that. I've

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always thought that you

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bars dealt with that stuff and if people wanted

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to drink, they can just go to bars.

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So I

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don't plan on offering that stuff

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because i don't i don't want to feel the effects of it if people are um intoxicated which is why

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i'm not trying to open that type of establishment all right thank you um and you mentioned at the

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meeting that people kept focusing on the house and i'm not sure what you were referring to is

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this what you're the building is that what you're calling the house no so i'll show you i'll show

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you it's this um mr johns this it's this structure right here at the front facing on toursdale it's

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immediately to the rear on the other side of the parking lot this structure here has been uh a

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property that has been vacant many years before my client purchased it and this people have gone in

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there people have broken into this property and it has been known as a property where there's been

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activity of that kind here and that's what the the neighbors were concerned about gotcha so so

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So the property in question is the one that has the L shape, right?

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Yes, yes.

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This is the subject property.

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The lot that's right behind that.

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Exactly.

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And then the house is the house in the corner.

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Gotcha.

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Okay.

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This one here, yes.

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Okay.

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Thank you.

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Any other questions from the board?

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Yes.

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I guess I'm a little confused about this model.

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Have you done this kind of catering service before?

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You said you were in banking.

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You said you were in child care. Have you done anything like this before?

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Yes, I actually have for maybe the last three years, especially during COVID.

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I've assisted with planning a lot of events. I've used other venues.

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I have friends that are balloon decorators, caterers. I've jumped in to help them.

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I plan tons of baby showers. My daycare center actually takes up two buildings and I have turned my daycare center into the very thing that I'm trying to create here.

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and have had tons of birthday parties for the children that attend here.

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I've done it for my own children, and I enjoy it.

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And I enjoy it. It's fun. I like to see people, you know, celebrate themselves.

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It's fun.

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I like to see people, you know, celebrate.

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And having done so with my current my current child care space, which is roughly 2200 square feet.

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I saw this as a great opportunity to be able to just focus in.

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I've also hosted a plethora of pop up shops, which is when you bring in different vendors, different people to have their own services or products.

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And, you know, everyone is not fortunate enough to have a storefront.

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So I've given those opportunities to those people by hosting my pop-up shops and allowing, you know, people that are starting out with candles and clothing lines and different things like that.

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They've been able to start their brands and branch out on their brands and make money and, you know, come together as a community.

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That is very fun and very beneficial for everyone in the neighborhood, as well as people that are, you know, jumping out on faith and starting their own brand.

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So, yeah, I've done it a lot, honestly.

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So you have put together these kinds of things at other locations.

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Is that what you're saying?

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Yes, as well as my own.

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I have a daycare center that is two buildings, and I've done it.

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Well, that's another location, not this one.

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That's what I need.

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Yes.

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Yes, ma'am.

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Okay.

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And I guess I'm having a problem with visualizing how this works.

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Okay.

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You say you're going to have caterers bring in things, but I don't see a kitchen area.

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I don't see any place where there would be some way for them to keep this food and prepare and serve this food.

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How does this, how is this going to work exactly?

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I don't see sinks. I don't see anything that would look like that.

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It's compatible with the food service that you're talking about.

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Okay. So normally how is this going to work?

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Normally when people rent spaces, event spaces, just like at church gatherings and things of that nature or community event centers.

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we use schools gymnasiums we've done so I've attended just like my children have events at

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their schools people bring the food and it is a prepared from outside person people have I don't

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have any problem with that that's not that's not my problem okay my problem is the food is prepared

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outside but you're bringing it into a space and you have to have some place for this caterer to

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set up this food service so that it would be available to be served to whoever is coming to

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this event. So the question is, I don't see anything in here that looks like a kitchen

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prep area of some sort where this caterer, they need, whether they're bringing food in from

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outside or not, they need some way to wash their hands. They need to have some way to

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provide basic sanitation services and what have you, keeping this food cold if it's cold food,

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hot if it's hot food. Where is that going to take place in here? Okay, so the setup is actually up

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to the attendee, if I could maybe extra envision, like maybe a cookout, when you see the sternos,

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they have the trays that they bring in, they place the sternos on there, they're encased,

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and you simply just use a lighter, and it lights up the sternos, and the food is kept warm in that

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way. They have really nice fancy ones that they bring out with lids and everything, and it is a

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very fabulous layout. The same with if you have a cookout, just to give a more example, you have

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the the pasta solid and you have the seafood solid and you know um when you think of people

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out in the park and we have our family gatherings and family reunions we bring the food out to the

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park it's the same kind of thing i do have two bathrooms with two working things so being able

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to wash their hands or excess water is definitely not an issue as far as spacing they have an

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entire room i also have a lobby area that is very very um more than enough space for them to set up

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food sometimes it's just

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brought into the space

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it's not they'll be there for maybe

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a five or six hour window

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so in thinking of food

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they're bringing in maybe

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four or five dishes

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they're serving these dishes

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and then everything goes in the trash

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so it's not

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one of those things where they're not

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cooking on site that thing

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that is already prepared by the

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professionals that they hired to

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prepare their food so

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prepare their food so you still they use the sternos and keeping it cold they'll put food on

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So, they use the sternal.

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ice though um there's a ton of different things that people use to keep food cold when they travel

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and then they set it up how they set it up and that's the that's the point of having a caterer

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because they bring in the things that they need to do they use sterno baskets and they use the

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heating devices to heat the food. They don't. You're talking about the heating. There's still

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the, you have to, you have to keep hot food's hot, cold food's cold. And I don't see anything

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in this that, you know, sternos are for warming up maybe. I'm not quite sure how that works

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when you're talking about the windows of time

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that you're talking about,

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particularly when we're talking about cold foods.

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I also have the question, let's get past that.

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And you're saying, I think Board Member Johns

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was talking about BYOB,

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but if the caterer is bringing things,

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will one of the things they bring for these different events be liquor?

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I will say, let me just interject here, you know, Ms. Gaston, you have asked several questions.

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If a client wants to rent this space, if they're renting it as it is, it's not for my client to

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prepare their food or to determine whether their food is hot or kept cold during their,

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It is simply an open, empty shell for people to rent. And they will know if they want to use it or not. It's not, I don't think that the requirement, it sounds as though you're sort of wandering around whether or not this is a suitable for catering. And it is, it is suitable for the kinds of catering.

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That's not my question. My question is, as you're basically saying, you're going to be

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renting this space for discrete periods of time to someone who will bring in their own caterer.

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And then this caterer somehow is going to be providing this food, providing whatever

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refreshments and what have you at the behest of whoever this is that's running this space.

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Regardless of that, if you're doing this, at some point there has to be some health concerns

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about who these people are, how is this going to work in terms of a space where I'm not seeing

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what would be, whether you were, if you were doing this in your house, you're doing this in

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any other kind of facility. If you're talking about doing it in a school, there are facilities

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there. There's a kitchen, there's facilities. If you're doing this in this daycare center, my

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assumption would be that there's some kind of kitchen or some kind of way that you can

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provide a space for this caterer to do the prep and what have you, and the maintenance of this

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food while this event is going on. I'm not seeing that here. And that's my concern. Okay.

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So Sherman, I think we're at an impasse here. I think we're,

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our, Cheryl's basically saying there's nothing there to make this safe and whatever. And you're

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saying that, well, I'm just

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writing a space and it's up to Cater

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to do what he does. So I think we're in an

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impasse there. And I think what I'm going to

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do with this is we're going to continue on,

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see where planning is, and then I'm going to take it

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back next week and we'll have a longer

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discussion in our executive session.

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Okay? Is there any other questions

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from the board?

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Would I be able to add anything?

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Why don't we move

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on, Sherman? I mean, I think

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I think she's tried

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to answer that question three times and

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And I don't think she's answered it to where Cheryl Gaston is.

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So we're going to move on with that.

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I do have another question, I guess.

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Two questions I have is looking at the plan.

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How is the lounge that's listed on the plan intended to be used?

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And then two, are there going to be people allowed to park in the driveway if they are utilizing the space as like visitors or attendees to the events?

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Absolutely.

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The driveway is actually great for the parking, for the decorators to come in because they may have a bunch of stuff.

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Well, that's loading. I'm asking about parking. So not the decorators, not the catering drop-off.

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I'm saying like if there's 40 people coming for a baby shower, you're going to have a line of cars of attendees to the baby shower party.

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i you're going to have a line of cars of attendees to the baby shower party in this driveway

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