COUNCIL OF THE CITY OF PHILADELPHIA PUBLIC HEARING AND PUBLIC MEETING BEFORE THE COUNCIL COMMITTEE ON COMMERCE & ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT - - - Room 400, City Hall Philadelphia, Pennsylvania Tuesday, October 27, 1998 2:15 p.m. - - - Resolution No. 980734 - Authorizing Council Committee on Commerce and Economic Development to hold investigative hearings on the performance and compliance of Kvaerner Shipbuilders and the Philadelphia Shipyard Development Corporation with the participation goals of minority and female businesses and contractors on the rehabilitation of the Philadelphia Naval Yard. PRESENT: COUNCILMAN MICHAEL A. NUTTER, Chairman COUNCILWOMAN AUGUSTA A. CLARK COUNCILMAN DAVID COHEN COUNCILWOMAN ANNA C. VERNA COUNCILWOMAN DONNA REED MILLER COUNCILWOMAN MARIAN B. TASCO COUNCILMAN ANGEL L. ORTIZ COUNCILMAN FRANK DICICCO COUNCILMAN RICHARD T. MARIANO - - - VINCENT VARALLO ASSOCIATES, INC. Registered Professional Reporters Eleven Penn Center, Suite 600 Philadelphia, PA 19103 (215) 561-2220 2 COMMERCE & ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT - RES. 980734 I N D E X Anthony McNeill . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Deputy City Controller 5 David Volpe . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 19 6 First Deputy City Controller 7 Anthony Fullard, President. . . . . . . . . . 31 KKAJ Inc. Steel Erecting & Fabricating Company 8 Steven Henderson, President S&W Contracting 45 9 Joyce Bridges, Principal. . . . . . . . . . . 54 10 Bridges Contracting 11 Anthony Leonard . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 62 Former Kvaerner Employee J. Pierce Barnes, Jr., Executive Director 77 United Minority Enterprise Associates Minority Contractors Association Jihad Ali, Committee Chairman . . . . . . . . 85 United Minority Enterprise Associates William Hankowsky, President. . . . . . . . . 105 Philadelphia Industrial Development Corporation Richard Ryan, Project Manager . . . . . . . . 105 Kvaerner Gary Thompson . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 105 Project Director of Construction, Kvaerner Tore Sjursen . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 106 Vice President for Yard Development, Kvaerner Ronald White, Esquire . . . . . . . . . . . . 106 Counsel to Kvaerner Jessie Merrill, Structural Engineer . . . . . 189 U.S. Department of Navy 3 COMMERCE & ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT - RES. 980734 (Index, cont'd.) Trina Woodson, President and Founder. . . . . 192 Scoops Promotional Nancy Santana . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 193 Nancy Santana's Cleaning and Maintenance, Inc. Latino Contractors Association Philadelphia Hispanic Chamber of Commerce Dwayne Ming . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 193 Chisholm Electrical Contractors Louis Cruz, Cruz Construction . . . . . . . . 194 Jerry Stein, M.F. Stein Corporation . . . . . 196 Tyrone Reed, Berean Institute . . . . . . . . 206 John Thomas, Private Citizen. . . . . . . . . 209 4 COMMERCE & ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT - RES. 980734 P R O C E E D I N G S
Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen. This is the City Council Committee on Commerce and Economic Development for a public hearing on Resolution No. 980734. My name is Michael Nutter, and I'm the chair of the committee. With me presently is Councilwoman Tasco, who was appointed as a member of the committee for today's hearing by Council President Street. We are anticipating other members of Council who are members of the committee to be present, they are on their way. But we would like to get today's proceeding started and respect everyone's time. Let me read the title of Resolution 18 980734. Authorizing the City Council Committee on Commerce and Economic Development to hold investigative hearings on the performance and compliance of Kvaerner Shipbuilders and the Philadelphia Shipyard Development Corporation with the participation goals of minority and female businesses and the contractors on the rehabilitation of the Philadelphia Naval Yard. 5 COMMERCE & ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT - RES. 980734 Before we get started, one, Councilwoman Donna Reed-Miller has joined us here at the table. Two, my colleague, Councilwoman Tasco, who introduced Resolution No. 980734, has put together -- as is generally the responsibility of a sponsoring member -- an agenda for today's hearing. I will conduct the hearing as the chair, but Councilwoman Tasco has put together today's agenda. If there are individuals who wish to testify who have not already notified either my office or Councilman Tasco's, you should you see Miss Brenda Frazier or Miss Debra Johnson who are over on the side. We wish to hear everyone who is here today and we will do our best to keep the hearing moving. We understand that some people have time constraints, but we do want to fully explore and examine the issues that have been raised by the resolution. Lastly, joining us at the table is Councilman Ortiz, a member of the committee. I believe that Councilwoman Tasco wishes to make an opening statement, and then we will start with our testimony following the agenda 6 COMMERCE & ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT - RES. 980734 that was provided by Councilwoman Tasco. The Chair recognizes Councilwoman Tasco.
Thank you, Councilman Nutter. Good afternoon, everyone. And I want to thank you for coming out to the hearing today. During my first term on City Council, I chaired this Committee on Commerce and Economic Development, and I've never lost my concerns for the issues that impact on economic development of this city. And specifically, I am committed to ensuring that everyone who is eligible has access to every and all opportunities that are created in the city. My interest in participation by all citizens of Philadelphia goes back further to the days when I worked as Philadelphia Urban Coalition as the task force coordinator and had the economic Development Task Force, and our concerns are not far from the concerns then as are the concerns today. We are still fighting for participation in the economic growth of this city, and it was 7 COMMERCE & ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT - RES. 980734 very difficult in the early seventies to foster that kind of participation. Some people in this room who will testify today worked with me back in those days to gain some assurance that all citizens of this city would participate in the economic largesse of this city. I'm very disappointed that we are here today. It's like an "I told you so" hearing, because in December, when this legislation was brought to us in a briefing in the City Council chambers, we all -- and I specifically expressed interest and concern about the inclusiveness of this contract -- of the contract and how women and minorities would participate in this $400 million project which consists of public dollars. No matter how you identify them, the dollars are taxpayers' dollars, mine included. The dollars may come from the federal government, they may come from the State, and they may come from the City. But in the end, the dollars come from the taxpayers. As a taxpayer, I am interested that my dollars are spread around in a diverse way and that no one is excluded from 8 COMMERCE & ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT - RES. 980734 participating. The National League -- and I remember this so vividly because the National League of Cities was meeting here, and were at a meeting over at the National League, and we were called into Council and told that we had to vote on this legislation, it was very important, and I agree. Developing and bringing the Navy Yard back is very important to all of us. We want to see jobs. And because of our concern for the employment and economic development around that project, we voted. We were asked to vote without even reading the contract, and we said no. 15 So we're here now because at that time, our concerns, I believe now, were valid, because we began to get complaints from individuals who had sought participation on that project and were not given access. So we had a meeting with staff of PIDC and with some of the contractors and in particular with other Councilmembers just to get a feel for what was happening. And we really weren't too happy -- at least I wasn't -- with the results of that meeting. 9 COMMERCE & ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT - RES. 980734 And that's why we introduced a resolution to have these hearings so that those people who believe that they have not been given an opportunity to participate in this effort could come forth and put it on public record, what their concerns are. And hopefully, we will come up today with some resolution. We know that -- I have been told that the Mr. Radahl, who is the head of Kvaerner, could not be here today, but we did not to postpone these hearings. We wanted them to go forward. We will ask him to come, and we've been given a date of November the 16th. We will ask him to come. And at the same time, we want the Pennsylvania Ship Development Corporation to come forth because that is the board that we were told would oversee this project. So we will have the testimony today.
And for those people who have just come in the room, our agenda is such that we will have testimony from business people who have tried to gain work on this project, and then we'll go to the agency and Kvaerner representatives. 10 COMMERCE & ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT - RES. 980734 Thank you so much, Mr. Nutter. And, again, we thank you for coming out to broken your testimony.
Thank you, Councilwoman Tasco. The first witness this afternoon is Mr. Tony McNeil, Deputy City Controller. (Anthony McNeil comes forward.)
Please identify yourself for the record and proceed with your testimony.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. My name is Anthony McNeil, and I'm a deputy in the City Controller's office. Thank you for this opportunity. I'd like to read a brief statement. I've provided copies earlier.
Thank you. In early September, the Controller's Office was contacted by numerous parties alleging a whole host of discriminatory bidding practices at Kvaerner Philadelphia Naval Shipyard. Some of those allegations included out of over 100 million in bid openings to date, with 11 COMMERCE & ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT - RES. 980734 almost 70 million awarded, only four MBEs and WBE firms have been awarded contracts as subcontracts, for a total of $1,740,000. KPS prequalified bidders, created an improved list of five to six prime contractors. Based on this process, qualified MBEs and WBE firms are not privy to information and, hence, allowed to bid as prime contractors. Most bids are not advertised. MBE/WBE firms cannot purchase plans or specifications for the bids in order to submit timely and competitive prices. OHCD and the City Department of Labor Standards employees who are responsible for monitoring the expenditures of federal funds and contract compliances at KPS were banned from the site and from attending all bid openings and from informational process meetings. According to the letter, according to a letter from a former KPS planning and scheduling manager, high-level KPS executives have made inclusion of MBEs and WBE firms in the process was given a very low priority. One KPS executive was quoted as 12 COMMERCE & ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT - RES. 980734 stating, "I don't care what the contract says, we will do what we want to do in this project. It's Kvaerner's business, not the City's. And all we promised in the contract was an attempt to involve minority companies. We are not contractually bound to do anything. And by the way, this conversation does not leave this room." The former KPS employee letter collaborates the information provided by other interested parties. He states the contracts have been open bids, and that MBE and WBE firms have not been notified of upcoming dates for various contracts. KPS has signed a document that requires them to take steps to use good-faith efforts to arrange for competitively-situated MBEs and WBE business enterprises to have access to bid documents and opportunities to bid on contracts. Based on the information presented to the Controller's Office, KPS has not been complying with contractual requirements to utilize minority- and women-owned firms. Hundreds of millions of dollars of public monies are included in this project. KPS 13 COMMERCE & ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT - RES. 980734 has a duty, under the master agreement, to use the best efforts to arrange for MBEs and WBE firms to be engaged as subcontractors and I believe prime contractors as well. If they are qualified, to date, KPS has not lived up to its responsibilities. With the hiring of the Greater Philadelphia Urban Affairs Coalition and a renewed partnership with the appropriate City agencies charged with monitoring the expenditures of public funds, I am hopeful Kvaerner will change its ways and become a good corporate citizen it has the reputation of being. To foster this effort, KPS should broaden its outreach efforts to include MBEs and WBE firms as prime and subcontractors. The Philadelphia Shipyard Development Corporation should also consider the placement of a representative of a WBE and WE contractors community on its board. I will be happy to answer any questions you may have. Thank you.
Thank you very much for your testimony. 14 COMMERCE & ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT - RES. 980734 First, just a bit of housekeeping. You are testifying in your capacity as Deputy City Controller.
And does your testimony reflect the concerns, if not the position, of the City Controller?
Okay. I've been intrigued for sometime about the statement -- and I've heard this before -- on .
That's been attributed to one KPS executive and the quote as you read it into the record. Do we know who made this particular statement?
Yes. We received a letter. And when I say "we," I mean the City Controller, Mr. Saidel, received a letter from this employee. I have that letter here as 15 COMMERCE & ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT - RES. 980734 documentation.
Anthony Leonard, who was a previous department manager at Kvaerner.
He's the person that wrote the letter relaying the alleged conversation?
Okay, all right. Any other questions for Mr. McNeil? Councilman Ortiz.
You say that he's a former employee. What was the reason for leaving?
I don't have that 16 COMMERCE & ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT - RES. 980734 information right now, sir. Well, it says here in this letter that he had some false charges against him when he was terminated. He's filing suit.
I'm sorry. He was terminated for some false charges. It didn't elaborate on it, but he's filing suit presently against Kvaerner.
Councilman, it's my understanding that that individual is actually here and will be testifying in the first panel.
I was told at a meeting that we had with PIDC that we had no 21 authority to be able to audit the Kvaerner contract. And I would like to find out what is the extent of the authority of the Controller's Office. And you are speaking for the Controller's Office, right? 17 COMMERCE & ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT - RES. 980734
What is the extent that we have to be able to audit the overall working of Kvaerner as it is at the present time? And is it limited to the amount of money that the City now contributes to the overall grant that was given Kvaerner?
We are researching that. Our authority to audit Kvaerner is very limited. We're researching the possibilities up to the administration to invite us in so that we can do the necessary proper auditing processes.
What is the limitations that you presume to have at the present time? What are the parameters that we have currently as seen by your office?
Well, I'm going to try to -- basically as our guiding force, basically it limits us to auditing outside projects where monies are federal --
I'm sorry, I'm sorry, forgive me. Can you hear me now? 18 COMMERCE & ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT - RES. 980734
Okay. We were told that basically the federal government -- 'cause the majority of the money came from the federal government -- needs to do this audit, or proceed to do that. But we're very limited because of the Home Rule Charter.
When that contract was before us in Council, we were told we were partners in the process. I just want to establish what the limitation -- there are limited partnerships in the corporate world, and I want to establish what limited partnership we have, if possible. And I would like you to be able to be as specific as you can as to the limited partnership that the City has in the whole aspect of this contract. And how can we be sure that our money is being spent correctly at this time?
Okay. Well, then, like I said, we have to research that, and we'll do that and come back with an answer at a later day. But I know we're limited by the Home Rule Charter. We really can't go in and do a full-blown audit like 19 COMMERCE & ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT - RES. 980734 we do with the school board.
Do you have an idea, because, let's say, since there is state money, and can we as a legislative body, for example, and maybe you have this answer, maybe you don't. But if you don't, I would like you to bring it back to us. And if he cannot, Mr. Chair, I'd like the City Solicitor to give us an answer.
Since we are limited -- the City's limited and you don't have an answer to that, also, what is the role, the auditing role -- or can we ask the Auditor General, for example to audit the whole Kvaerner contract? And what are his limitations, if any, that you know about? (David Volpe comes forward.)
Mr. Volpe has joined me, who's the Chief Deputy in our office.
Mr. Volpe, please identify yourself for the record. Do you wish to 20 COMMERCE & ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT - RES. 980734 try to answer Councilman Ortiz's question?
Thank you. David Volpe, First Deputy City Controller. Certainly, we all know that there is three components to this -- there's the state money, the federal money, and our funds, and which are really the federal funds. We, a number of years ago, sent a letter to the administration in the formative stages of this partnership with Kvaerner, stating that we wanted to have full audit rights. The administration came back and said, Well, we don't have a problem with that in terms of the federal monies that are involved, which went through PIDC and the Kvaerner Philadelphia Naval Shipyard, the organization that was set up. So I believe we could audit the federal funds. The state monies, as far as I know, Auditor General Casey has noted that he'd like to perform certain audit testing on those funds particularly related to the use of steel and also some of the bidding issues pertaining to some of the larger contracts.
So what are the road 21 COMMERCE & ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT - RES. 980734 blocks that are being put forward to prevent us from following up on what you're talking about?
To my knowledge, none. I mean, we have not attempted to do a full-scale audit of the funds. Basically, we got the initial allegations in from a couple of different parties, followed up on those, met with PIDC, talked to the responsible City parties who have been monitoring the project related to the bidding requirements from OHCD, from MBEC. And we have found that certainly -- and we all, I think would agree -- they haven't been following the contract and the management agreement in terms of the goals that were set and the responsibilities we believe they have in terms of notification of vendors to get on subcontractor and prime contractor bidding lists. And that's basically the extent of what we've done. We haven't gone past what we found on the lack of follow-through on the bidding.
I would definitely like, Mr. Chairman, the Controller's Office to get together with this committee and maybe structure a 22 COMMERCE & ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT - RES. 980734 process in which an auditing process can be put into place so that all of the information that we may not be getting willingly or voluntarily will be forthcoming through the audit, if possible.
Councilman, I'll make that request as well as your earlier request was for the City Solicitor's Office to make some determination as to what is the official and authorized role of the City Controller with regard to this particular project.
Yes. This question is for Tony McNeil. In your statement on , at the bottom, the last two items. When you make reference that most bids are not advertised and MBE and WBE firms cannot purchase plans, would an audit -- does your audit also deal with contract compliance? Because I would believe that because 23 COMMERCE & ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT - RES. 980734 there's public money, that these two items should not have happened. Am I correct or am I off-base?
Lastly, Mr. McNeil, on that same point, are you saying, without it being written, that the MBE/WBE firms cannot purchase plans -- this is your testimony -- purchase plans and specifications for the bids in order to submit timely and competitive prices? Are you also saying that non-MBE/WBE firms are able to purchase plans and specifications for these bids?
Can I answer that if possible. The way they've structured the project, you have a prequalification of certain bidders for certain types of job, so they'll pick -- they'll solicit input from five, six -- let's take that number -- prime contractors that they believe firms that are prime contractor type of firms. How they get to that determination if they are a prime versus a sub, I can't say. 24 COMMERCE & ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT - RES. 980734 But they'll solicit input and qualifications from those types of firms and they will negotiate with those firms. And then they'll follow up on that or not follow up on that with those types of firms in terms of trying to find subcontractors who, generally speaking, would be minority type of contractors or WBE or DBE type of contractors. So what we found was, the process they're using inherently limits the number of potential bidders, some of whom would be MBE/WBE.
These would be bids on structural steel, for example, or the crane, the demolition. They did-- on the architecture, they did pick as a partner contractor, a minority firm in addition to the prime contractor they selected for the architectural. 25 COMMERCE & ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT - RES. 980734
Mr. Volpe, you audit the -- this is a hypothetical. You audit the Kvaerner deal, and you find that there is no 7 compliance, a little compliance to the City's MBE requirements, the state requirements, and the federal requirements, what happens?
To be perfectly honest, Councilwoman, I'm not sure. We'd obviously report that, and we're in the process of telling you what we found to date on the bidding and procurement side. In terms of the City's ability to do anything about it, I'm not sure what the City's ability is. The managing agreement, the way it's written, they are structured as goals. They are not firm set-asides in any way where 15 percent has to be the case. It does say "best efforts." Now, certainly, what we found is that the best efforts have not been there. I don't think they have exercised best efforts in the process to be inclusionary. But in terms of action to take, COMMERCE & ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT - RES. 980734 recognizing they're not meeting the goal, I'm not sure what the resultant action is.
Who pays the bills? The money flows into what coffer? Do we receive all the money in the City and then -- or where does the money go, all of this money, where does the City money go? Where does the federal-money dollars go, where do the state dollars go? Who pays the bill?
So the money goes to the shipyard Development Corporation so they have the financial responsibility for paying the Kvaerner.
Mr. Chairman, this is to one of the controller's people here, Tony or David Volpe. Are either of you familiar with the 27 COMMERCE & ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT - RES. 980734 Philadelphia Convention Center's oversight board when that was being built?
I'm vaguely familiar -- generally familiar with the process that occurred in terms of oversight for the Convention Center.
In a far-range process, if we have a problem with the process that seems to be a bone of contention for a lot of people in Council right now, would the Controller's Office recommend something like the oversight board that was on the Convention Center? I mean, that was a long time coming and that happened and we got it built. My main concern here is to get this thing built and not offend anyone and make sure everybody gets a chance to bid on the contracts. Some of the preliminary names that I've been seeing are people that I actually worked with when I was an electrician in the building trades. I don't want to say their names to disqualify them from anything, but they are people that are qualified with all the City agencies and being minority-business electrical contractors. They're telling me that this thing has 28 COMMERCE & ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT - RES. 980734 been slowed up. Would that be any help, do you think? I mean, I just want to throw out something positive here.
I'm not really sure if that would help or hinder the situation. You don't want to do anything that -- this is fast track, the project is, and you don't want to slow it down. But at the same time, you want to make sure that the entities are complying with the management agreement requirements. So I'm sorry I can't answer that question directly. I'm not sure if --
Could you officially ask the Controller to respond to me in writing about that if possible?
See, I mean if it's farfetched, it's something. I mean, we want to get this going.
Thank you. 29 COMMERCE & ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT - RES. 980734
Good afternoon. I'm concerned about the pre-qualifications process. Do you know if minority-women and disabled business firms were prequalified as prime contractors?
Are you saying that you don't know what the prequalification process is that Kvaerner uses? Do you know that?
Well, I think it's been evolving certainly up until. Not too long ago, certainly, there was a very limited prequalification process. At least for the primes, there was a structured process. As for the smaller firms and traditional minority firms, we're not sure how many were included in, that if any. As Tony said, someone from OHCD might be in a better position to 30 COMMERCE & ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT - RES. 980734 answer that.
I need to know what process is used. Then I want to know how many people survived the process and how they're doing? Is there anybody in the room who can answer that, do you know?
Councilwoman, I believe that there are individuals who may be able to answer that. They are on the list I have from PIDC or --
That tends to be my concern, Mr. Chairman. I don't mean to take your witnesses out of order but I wish to have that question answered. Thank you.
I understand. Any other questions for these witnesses? (No further questions.)
Gentlemen, thank you very much. Again, Councilwoman Tasco's office put 31 COMMERCE & ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT - RES. 980734 together the witnesses as panels, as I indicated earlier. If there are people who have not been in touch with Councilwoman Tasco's office about getting on the witness list, please see Debra Johnson or Brenda Frazier. The first panel is Anthony Fullard, Steven Henderson, Ronald Bridges, and Anthony Leonard. Would those individual please come to the witness table and begin their testimony. (Above panel comes forward.)
While those persons are coming to the table, let me recognize the presence of Councilman DiCicco, who is a member of the committee, and Councilwoman Verna, the majority leader. Can we have everyone identify themselves for the record as you begin your testimony and proceed in whatever order you've worked out amongst yourselves. If you haven't developed an order, we'll start with the gentleman in the striped shirt. Proceed, sir.
My name is Anthony Fullard. I am the president of KKAJ Incorporated 32 COMMERCE & ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT - RES. 980734 Steel Erecting & Fabricating Company.
Could you please state your name and where you're from, please. I didn't hear that.
Mm-hmm. My name is Anthony Fullard. I'm from KKAJ Incorporated Steel Erecting & Fabricating Company.
We have shown great interest in the Kvaerner project, and we have been in contact with the OHCD Department. Hanford Jones had been a great help to us to try to acquire as much information that we could to begin the bidding process for our company. As we pursued that information, we -- normally, we are given the structural drawings in 33 COMMERCE & ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT - RES. 980734 order to bid a project. We, up until this date, have never received any drawings whatsoever, nor have we been directed where to even purchase any drawings, if any. We were told that it was a it was a as-built project, and that there were no 7 drawings to be obtained. Now, the information that we did receive was --
Mr. Fullard, I'm sorry to interrupt you. What -- I'm not too expert in the construction industry. What does that mean?
It means that whomever is bidding the fabrication and the erection of this building would have to come up with some designs of what they consider of, you know, how this building or how this structure could be built.
Based on -- I don't know. Normally, they have some type of template for you to go by of what the owner wants to build there, okay? And, as I said before, we had never received any drawings or anything of that 34 COMMERCE & ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT - RES. 980734 magnitude so that we can give any kind of a quote of what we could do on the project.
And how did you learn about these buildings? Or how do you know that there is an building opportunity?
OHCD -- Hanford Jones has been giving us information on this project to extent that he had that we could bid this project. And this is what I have here.
Okay. So when you found out about that, what did you do next? Who did you try to contact in order to be able to either get some drawings, find out more information? What was your next step?
Okay. My next step is I did receive a prime -- a still prime contractors list. 35 COMMERCE & ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT - RES. 980734
From Hanford Jones, OHDC. And we looked through these prime contractors on whom we felt comfortable to bid from. So I contacted numerous fabricating prime contractors.
Okay. And the only one that responded to us was S.M.I. Owens Fabricating Company. And they did send us some information, and this is the information that I have on the project. And the information basically had the total weights of each building that had to be built.
Now, this company that sent you information, are they somehow involved in the project?
Now they have been awarded the project. They are doing a joint venture with Havenstill and S&M Owens (ph).
So they have responsibility for building the building.
And what would your 36 COMMERCE & ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT - RES. 980734 company do as it relates to their project to build the building? What part of the business are you in?
We are in steel erection, so we would be the company that would pursue to install the steel that they actually would fabricate.
So somebody else fabricates these pieces, and then your company comes in and you erect them.
So once we learned that they had won the project, we contacted them again, and I spoke to a Mr. Brown, and he said that they had already awarded the project. Well, I'm a little ahead of myself. We did submit some bids to them, okay?
But only on the information that we had. We never seen any drawings. We just gave them a per-ton price because that's all that we had. 37 COMMERCE & ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT - RES. 980734
So we came up with what we could handle, and we submitted them a price per ton because that's what they asked for.
And then once we learned that they did -- when the fabricating bid -- well, the whole package, they subbed out the total erection package to Cornell, who is a sub to Owen Steel now. And so they told us to get in contact with them to see if there was anything that we could obtain from them. And that's where it is at this date.
Cornell had asked us to call them within 30 days because they had not had a signed contract, nor did they have any drawings for us to review. So they asked us to get back in contact with them in 30 days.
All right. So, I 38 COMMERCE & ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT - RES. 980734 mean, based on your testimony, I guess what I'm taking away is that you were told by various people that no one seems to have anything that you need to be able to submit a responsible bid. But then somehow, some way --
-- somebody apparently get the information that they need, they submit a bid, they get a contract, and then you're told to go talk to the next group from whom you cannot get any information in order to be able to submit a bid for your type of work. Is that --
Exactly. And this is the first time that we've -- and we've been on a lot of major projects throughout the city, and this is the first time that we ever was not able to obtain, even if we had to purchase them, to submit a competitive bid.
You've done work either on city or other governmental projects?
City-funded, okay, okay. 39 COMMERCE & ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT - RES. 980734 Any questions? Are you MBEC-qualified?
At the risk of extending this here, I missed a little bit of what Councilman Nutter said. You do structural steel?
So what do you do exactly? You buy it from one of the steel companies? Do you hire iron workers? is what I want to know.
Possibly. So your thing here is that you're not on the list? I mean, you're not getting information to see what specifications you need from Corning or one of the guys that supply the iron?
I am -- as of -- 40 COMMERCE & ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT - RES. 980734
No, we were not on the list to receive anything. We contacted OHCD and other entities that was in charge of this project to help us to obtain some information.
How about if I tell you that I have a list with eight structural steel contractors that are recommended subcontractors for Kvaerner and you're one of them? KKAJ, Incorporated, 7500 Germantown Avenue, Anthony Fullard, 753-0280, that's you?
You're on the list. Are there any other structural steel guys on here that may have not received the information? You know, it's some list that I got from someone that I know at Kvaerner.
Okay. That may be the miscellaneous steel list that you may be reading from because I've just learned that we were on 41 COMMERCE & ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT - RES. 980734 that list, and the --
'Cause you've done some really big projects from what I understand. I mean --
I'm getting to that, I'm getting to that. Yeah, if you could tell us some of the projects that you've done in Philadelphia.
Right now we're doing the Marriott Hotel, which is concluded. We have the stair project as well for that. We are doing the south work --
Could you put a dollar sign next to the projects, how much money is the project for and so on?
Okay. The Marriott project was -- the dollar sign was approximately $700,000. With the stair project, which is over 300,000, actually brought our contract for that particular project over a $1 million.
So Mr. Fullard, I 42 COMMERCE & ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT - RES. 980734 mean, you've done significant work on government-sponsored projects.
Just to respond to that list that he may be reading from, as I said, it may be the miscellaneous steel list that you may be reading from, but the initial list was the structural steel list, which we are not on as well.
Councilman, if you would be so kind -- 'cause I don't have the list -- could you share a copy of the list with the other members? And then we can all read from the 43 COMMERCE & ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT - RES. 980734 material.