My point here, Councilman, is, if you'll indulge me for a minute. I mean, he's certainly qualified.
I just can't see -- somebody's not telling us something here. And I -- all the good intentions of the world are here, everyone on the committee, certainly you and the Councilwoman, and everyone up there, and all the people we hear.
But them iron workers aren't working yet. I want to see them working. I want him to make money, I want them to work. I don't want 'em to miss November, December and January because of something we do.
You know, they tell me the path to hell is paved with good intentions, and I think there's great intentions 44 COMMERCE & ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT - RES. 980734 here. I think they're personally paved with intentions of elected officials that want to do the right thing but keep them iron workers from working. And, believe me, them iron workers have all sizes and colors, I know them. I know the people that run the union, I know people in the class. They actually have American Indians in that union, correct??
Not to take any gunshots away from anybody today, but the man's -- you're obviously on some list that I happened to get my hands on.
Councilman, I think -- I think what we've found, though, is -- I mean, you can be, obviously, on a million lists. 45 COMMERCE & ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT - RES. 980734
But is he getting in his flow chart? That's my next question.
The bottom line is that the gentleman is not participating in the opportunity, and so whether they're on the list, off the list, no list, for his testimony here today, it really doesn't matter where he may be because he's obviously not getting contact and relationship direct with the people that he needs to.
Has anyone that would be in his business have been contacted?
Well, we'll hear as go down the list, and we can go to the next gentleman unless there are any other questions. But I appreciate the information.
My name is Steven 46 COMMERCE & ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT - RES. 980734 Henderson. I am President of S&W Contracting. We are primarily an asbestos abatement, lead abatement, interior demolition. We also are assigned with Local 542. We supply equipment, heavy equipment, equipment operators, and we can supply equipment. We were working at the Navy Yard during the summer. When we went over to PIDC, we called them to ask them for work that was going to be upcoming to see if we could get a jump on some of the GCs or primes that would be awarded the jobs. We never got a response. The first time I heard about an actual bid going out on the Kvaerner Shipyard --
Who did you call and did you talk to anyone when you called?
Yes, yes. We called and left a message for a William P. -- I think it's Hankowsky?
Hankowsky, yeah. We had left messages for him. We got his name initially from 542 when we asked who should we contact as far as the conversions from the Navy to 47 COMMERCE & ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT - RES. 980734 PIDC with different properties at the Navy Yard.
And we left numerous messages with him and we never got a response. The first response I got from him was at another meeting that we had that I attended with Council in one of the rooms here, and he gave me Julie K. Van Norstrum's card, and we called her, and we still haven't got a response. This was all -- we did this prior to contacting him, and we got this card from him at that meeting. But the first time I heard anything officially about the Kvaerner Shipyard was when Hanford Jones contacted my office a day before a pre-bid meeting and told us to come down and attend a meeting. We came down and attended the meeting, and the meeting was not productive for MBEs at all, in my view. It was an afterthought, after everything was already told to all of the other prospective bidders. Nothing other than there was some goals for MBE contractors. And as a result of that and as a result of not being able to get in on some of the work 48 COMMERCE & ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT - RES. 980734 that we do as far as asbestos abatement, we sent information on our company to every prospective bidder that attended that meeting. We informed them that we are signed with the laborers and that we could supply laborers to work under their supervision. We informed them that we could supply equipment, we gave at him rates. We informed them that we were signed with Local 542, and we gave them list of the rates and all the things that we could supply. And we sent that list out and we cc'd Kvaerner, and we never received a response or anything about the project at all.
That meeting, I think it was in August. I attended it at the request of Handford Jones.
We've heard this name, Hanford Jones. Who is Handford Jones? What role does he play in this? 49 COMMERCE & ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT - RES. 980734
Well, he assists the minority business -- I'm certified with the Minority Business Enterprise Council. And when there are goals involved on City-funded projects that we are not directly told about from the primes or the GCs, we usually find out through him that the project is actually going on, and then, you know, we should go to the meeting. A lot of times, we are not even contacted or even know about the job or that it's going to come about. And most of the times, we've gotten most of our leads from Handford Jones.
This particular bid that we went on that job, I think it was called "the concrete package." And because we had missed the environmental package, we suggested that we would supply some equipment operators and possible equipment to help augment the work that would already be ongoing on without interfering with anything. Since we were told it was fast-pace, we figured this would be a way that we could still 50 COMMERCE & ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT - RES. 980734 get in and get a small piece of the work, since we're capable of doing that, and we received no 4 response. And we sent the -- we obtained the list at that meeting from every prospective bidder that attended that meeting. We got a list after the meeting, and we sent that information to every prospective bidder on the list, and we cc'd Kvaerner with the same information.
So, may I ask, if you feel you are behind the schedule as a result of not having heard from anybody, what is it that you would consider success at this point? What do 51 COMMERCE & ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT - RES. 980734 you want to happen for you?
There's still an opportunity because when we come in with the supplying of equipment operators and equipment, that can be done at any phase of the project. There's still time left for that to happen.
They have other contractors on the site that they've awarded work to have those needs. And they could fulfill some goals, if any, by complying with that.
So your greatest problem right now is that you feel invisible; nothing you do gets you any response.
Let me ask you a question. When you bid -- let's go away from the 52 COMMERCE & ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT - RES. 980734 Kvaerner project for a moment -- and you are bidding with other contractors for other work in other areas, and you put in a bid or you write them, do you normally get a response from them, the prime contractor?
We did Building 101 at the Navy Yard -- that was the old marine barracks. And we were contacted by a consultant to come bid on the project. We put a number in on the project, and we were contacted. Sometimes I'm actually told whether I've re -- what I -- we always find out where we came in. The bonding companies that work with us want to know, they want to see the result. So we have to go after the results to find out. If not contacted, we contact them to try to find out what's going on, because they would like to see the results. But in this instance, we got no 21 response; we wasn't even contacted at all. And we sent information on the company -- rates, who were signed with, the associations we belonged to, and we got no response.
You never got any 53 COMMERCE & ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT - RES. 980734 information about the scope of work for the project, right.
Exactly. So we thought that we were being ingenious by at least, at that point, not having any specifications, not having anything to go on, supplying equipment rates and equipment operators.
And during the time your company was in business, did you and other representatives of your company develop a sort of sensitivity as to when somebody was cooperating 54 COMMERCE & ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT - RES. 980734 with you and when somebody was seeking to exclude you?
Based upon your experience in the past, what conclusion have you arrived at with respect to Kvaerner?
At this point, I have even -- I went after contractors that have done work with the Department of Transportation, and I've been able to, through numerous letters and working with their affirmative action people in the DOT, SEPTA, I've been able to get somewhere. This is the first time -- we don't even have an exchange of letters, we don't even have no 16 response at all. I mean, I've had to fight for a lot of contracts, but I've been able to get some headway, but this is the first time we've gotten nothing at all.
Yes, my name is Joyce Bridges. I'm sitting in for business partners, 55 COMMERCE & ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT - RES. 980734 Ronald Bridges and Donald Abney from Bridges Contracting.
Bridges Contracting currently has a very large contract that we're doing at 12th and Market Street, the old PSFS building, where we're employing over 115 men. We're associated with various unions in the City of Philadelphia, Local 332 being the largest union that we are affiliated with and employing their men out of that local. We're also employing operators, cement workers. Other projects that we're currently working on is down at Fourth and Washington, the Southwark project, 20th and Nedro, Champlost Homes, Abbott's Fort Housing Project, along with the Richard Allen project. In the past few months, we've had projects at the Reading Terminal, working with 56 COMMERCE & ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT - RES. 980734 Central Salvage Corporation; at the Mellon Bank at Broad and Chestnut, Central Salvage and Pepper Environmental; and a number of other projects.
Yes, we are, thank you. Total to date, as of now, we have 150 men and women on our payroll. As far as Kvaerner is concerned, we made contact with Kvaerner back in the middle of June because we received information, again from Mr. Handford Jones's office, and -- excuse me -- advising us of a project that was being walked through the day, the next day. Our business -- my business partners attended that walk-through and received -- they walked away with a list of all the companies that were at that walk-through at the naval base. Everyone has a copy of that as the first page. After the walk-through was over, we were contacted by Kvaerner. We received from them a list of contractors that they elected to provide to us as being prequalified or those who were prime contractors in their view, and asked that we 57 COMMERCE & ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT - RES. 980734 contact them to establish a relationship if we so desired to do business down at the naval base. Using the list that Kvaerner provided with Bridges Contracting, along with that list that we had to come home with, which basically was more information than what they gave us, we sent out letters introducing ourselves, along with giving a brief background of the various projects that we were working on, our qualifications, our bonding capacity, along with just a general background of how financial secured we were. All of our union dues are paid, all of our taxes are paid, so we are a company that are in good standings financially and have a strong backing, and we're able and willing to go out and do the work. Out of the number of contractors that we did make contact with, we received no 20 information from them. We went a step further and sent a letter to Mr. Gary Thompson at Kvaerner, thanking him for the information that he provided to us, also giving him a background of our company and asking that they consider us also. No 25 information has come from that. So we decided to 58 COMMERCE & ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT - RES. 980734 do a follow-up of our letters. Just to go back, number one, we needed to find out whether some of these prime contractors that we made contact with have actually received a contract from the shipyard. We don't know what contracts are out there so we are trying to do our homework and some follow-up steps to try to identify what contracts were out there, who were bidding on these contracts, who had secured contracts, and we got absolutely no 12 information. I would sit down and call Kvaerner. And I called the number -- I think it was -- I'm pretty sure it's 785-2600. I've called it so much, I remember the number. And to me the question asked is, What sense do you get of this person being willing to assist you and deal with you? In calling Kvaerner's office at the naval base, my sense of dealing with them is that their first line of against is the administrative assistant who answers the phone, who knows nothing, who has no 24 information to give you, who will take your name and number and promise to pass it along and have 59 COMMERCE & ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT - RES. 980734 someone call you back, and that phone call is never returned. So when you call a company and you're asking, What is the name of the person that I can talk to get some information so that I can receive information on the bids that are coming forth that you have up for bid that will be coming up for bid soon? and person cannot give you information and that person cannot transfer you to anyone, you're at a standstill. I have called that number a number of times and asked for a face-to-face meeting. I would like to come in and meet with someone, develop a relationship. I know from past experience that you simply cannot go down to the naval base and walk in an office somewhere. So these phone call are very important when you do not have the name and title of someone that you can just call and say, May I speak to Mr. John Doe who handles X-Y-Z project? That information does not come forth.
To even ask for a list of people in the organization, you do not get that information. So -- 60 COMMERCE & ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT - RES. 980734
Miss Bridges I'm sorry, excuse me. You said wrote to a Mr. Gary Thompson. I have a copy of the letter -- Kvaerner Philadelphia Shipyard, Inc. Who is Gary Thompson?
Gary Thompson is the person who faxed a letter to Bridges Contracting, along with the second page that you have identifying a list of contractors. The letter is pretty short. I didn't have enough copies to give out so --
No, I understand. Do we know what his title is or what his responsibilities are?
Project director of construction. And then when I call and ask for Mr. Gary Thompson, I'm told that he's not there, I get no information.
I have not had one phone call returned, and I've made at least 15 phone calls requesting information, trying to get various information faxed to me or sent to me 61 COMMERCE & ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT - RES. 980734 through the mail on the various bids that were up for bid.
Have you received any answer to these letters that you sent out?
Miss Bridges do you know of any other firms that has received information or had questioned answered, any other small firms?
Not from Kvaerner. The only information that comes down to the minority company comes from the city agencies that are trying to help the companies, the minority companies gain some work. No information comes forth from Kvaerner itself.
And do you have any information on non-minority firms receiving information?
We do have information of plans that have been purchased by majority companies. I personally myself cannot name those companies; my partner is in contact with them. So they are able to get the information when you call and identify yourself. 62 COMMERCE & ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT - RES. 980734 And so the strategy now is to call and I'll change my name. You know, I'm sure the gate keeper there knows Joyce Bridges by now so I'll go as a/k/a and try to go in without identifying myself, you know, as a company trying to get on their minorities bidders list.
Okay. Any other questions? (No further questions at this time.) (Anthony Leonard comes forward.)
Mr. Leonard, there was information, and you stood in the back. I just want to make sure I understand what your situation is. You are former employee of Kvaerner?
Please identify 63 COMMERCE & ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT - RES. 980734 yourself for the record.
My name is Anthony Leonard. I was previously the department scheduling manager for Kvaerner Philadelphia Shipyard.
My responsibility, when I was hired May 4th, was to develop the entire project schedule.
Okay. Now, is it my understanding that you have since been discharged and that you have a pending lawsuit against your former employer?
Is the suit strictly between yourself and your former employer? Are there any other parties that are --
Correct. And also one of 64 COMMERCE & ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT - RES. 980734 our Kvaerner subsidiaries, so it is primarily Kvaerner.
Okay. I'm not sure what your testimony is. And to the best of my knowledge, I don't have any written testimony in front of me from you. I do want to strongly caution you that given the nature of the fact that you have a pending lawsuit against your employer, we do not want to get into the issues that are detailed or that may be detailed in that particular lawsuit.
If you have other information that you'd like to share with us, we're more than pleased to hear it.
But I will again strongly caution you about getting into issues between you and your former employer in this public hearing.
Basically, the testimony I'm providing is, I was brought on with Kvaerner 65 COMMERCE & ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT - RES. 980734 to develop the planning reconstruction schedule for the shipyard. That test commenced May 4th, and I was given a four-week deadline. So, basically, I worked day and night and got the schedule issued June 1st of 1998, which was accepted by PIDC, the Kvaerner management, as a workable base line schedule for the engineering procurement and construction efforts, all encompassing for the redevelopment of the shipyard. Now, after that was issued, during the course of June and July, the main focus of my point, which I raised to the vice president of the yard construction, a Mr. Tore Sjursen, was what I was noticing with the exclusion of minority participation. And I already raised the issue that basically the reason I took this potion was because I grew up in this area, and this job brought me back to this area with the hopes of bringing economic stability back to this tristate region. So I thought they understood that. Now, during the course of my conversations with the vice president, Tore 66 COMMERCE & ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT - RES. 980734 Sjursen, repeatedly, when I approached him with these questions of minority exclusion, he found a way to sort of lay it to the side. Don't worry about it Tony, it's being handled, it's being covered. A few times, persons of the management team would make jokes. Well, should we grab the telephone book? And from my standpoint, I didn't find that too humorous. Now to go further on, in a management meeting, I raised the question again -- and this was a management meeting of all management participants relative to the shipyard, and it was the week of July 17th. And I directed the minority exclusion inference that I was seeing directly again to Tore Sjursen. His direct statement to me was, point-blank, "This is our project, not the city's -- Kvaerner's project, not the city's. I don't care what the contract says, we are not contractually bound. We are only contractually bound to involve minorities." And that pretty much put us at odds at that point. And I sent a letter to Jonathon 67 COMMERCE & ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT - RES. 980734 Saidel stipulating the same essence of his quote directed toward me. Now, this was July 17th. No, I'm sorry, this was earlier, it was during the week of July 2nd.
Mr. Leonard, I assume that those issues must be the heart and soul of some part of your --
Well, again, I'm very concerned about where we're going with your testimony.
Again, if there are general issues that you want to put on the record about minority participation --
Just from a general standpoint. 68 COMMERCE & ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT - RES. 980734
-- I'd be glad to get into that. What I don't want to entertain is a "he said/he said" conversation.
Okay. Well, from the standpoint of minority participation, there was minimal. It was a low priority. It was questioned many times. The documents from May through August stipulate that. I raised the question to the management at Kvaerner many times, and nothing was done.
Now, in quick, concise terms, that was it. Minorities were put on the back burner. There was not a fair playing ground. It was more of a chosen field of people who were known by other people at Kvaerner, which did not stipulate a fair, competitive bid ground. And it was made harder for individuals in this region, along with minorities and WBE businesses to get information to purchase, or to get advertised bids. I created the schedule, all the bid dates were there. They were all known in May. All the packages were defined from May through '99. 69 COMMERCE & ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT - RES. 980734
So -- I'm sorry. So should I take from your testimony that you are essentially verifying or corroborating the previous testimony of at least the three witnesses that we've heard so far?
I have a question. You mentioned that the process was open only to those people who had an inside track. Were there other non-minority groups who were not given an opportunity also to participate?
Not that I was aware of. There was specific instances of, for example, the structural steel package that I became aware of. A pre-bid meeting was entertained, and bidders came in. However, following that meeting, there was a sort of more detailed meeting that Kvaerner had with one of their Malaysian subsidiaries, which I vehemently opposed. And the management team tried to tell me, It's none of your business. And I informed them that it is my business. You hired me to do a 70 COMMERCE & ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT - RES. 980734 job; the contact says 20/10, and what I'm seeing you do is a attempt to take a $50 million structural steel package overseas.
So it was not -- the regional companies, whether they were minority or non-minority, were not prime -- prime --
Were there majority companies, as well as minority companies, who were excluded from the process also?
This was only one specific instance where it involved an attempt to do a total exclusion. However, on other bid packages, it was more of an exclusion of minority and WBE companies, which I opposed.
I have a question. Mr. Leonard, were you a part of the management team?
So do you know -- you know, we've been asking this question for a 71 COMMERCE & ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT - RES. 980734 while, and we haven't really received an answer -- not just today, but a couple meetings ago. Do you know what the pre-qualifications, specific qualifications are?
So who makes that up? I mean, who says, Well, you qualify and you don't qualify?
All right. And I have one other question. How did you get your job at Kvaerner?
I've been with Kvaerner for five years. I was with another subsidiary of Kvaerner.
About 50 miles away, in Bridgewater, New Jersey, Kvaerner Process. And through the president of construction for Kvaerner 72 COMMERCE & ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT - RES. 980734 Process, after a split between -- well, I don't want to get into that because that gets into another issue, okay.
But that's the realm of where it came. It came from the president of construction for Kvaerner Process, who I'd worked with hand in and hand and had done quick jobs for all over the nation. He found out about the shipyard and he saw myself as fitting the bill 12 perfectly.
How does Kvaerner in New Jersey handle minority participation?
Yes. I just want to have it very clear for the record so that the 73 COMMERCE & ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT - RES. 980734 aspect of minority exclusion from the bid process was not one that was unconscious; it was a conscious effort, they knew about it, and they just disregarded the -- or they did not make any attempt to include and be inclusive of minority participation.
I can best answer that as, brought it to their attention numerous times.
Getting to a final conclusion, based upon your experiences at Kvaerner, what conclusions have you drawn with respect to the good-faith efforts by Kvaerner to employ minority firms or women-based firms?
Relative to the shipyard? 74 COMMERCE & ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT - RES. 980734
I have seen no good-faith efforts at all. And that's what brought me basically head to head and in contention with the management team of Kvaerner.
Could you repeat the beginning? I didn't get the first part. What is the conclusion that you arrived at?
With respect to your general experience with Kvaerner over the five years you worked for them, what conclusion did you draw with respect to the company's approach to --
Councilman, hold on. Councilman, you would probably make out better if you clipped the mike to your tie. 75 COMMERCE & ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT - RES. 980734
As long as it doesn't interfere with the pattern on my tie. (Laughter.)
No, I don't think so. It's black, it goes with everything, don't worry about it.
But, sir, could you tell us, based upon your work experience with Kvaerner --
Relative to the other divisions I've been in with Kvaerner, I've spent maybe 80 percent of my time on special assignments in the field resolving problems of projects that were in trouble -- cost overruns and delay. And relative to their good-faith efforts there, I've had no problems. I've raised 76 COMMERCE & ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT - RES. 980734 some issues, but it has not been to the extreme measure that I have seen when I came to the shipyard.
Thank you. Thank you all very much. The second panel is comprised of James Barnes, John Simon, Ellen Ryan, William Tyler, and Charles Ang. Would those individuals please come to the table. (Above group comes forward.) (Councilman Cohen addresses Councilman Nutter off-mike.)
I saw a letter from the president and CEO saying they were not available. Are there present senior members of Kvaerner hearing this testimony that have some power in the company?
Councilman, it's my understanding -- one, I can see that Mr. Hankowsky from PIDC is here. It is also my understanding that there are some representatives from 77 COMMERCE & ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT - RES. 980734 Kvaerner. Mr. Rafdal could not be here, but it's my understanding that a fairly senior Kvaerner person is here. And according to the schedule, as put together by Councilwoman Tasco, they will have an opportunity after the business owners and contractors to respond to questions and respond to the testimony that's been given.