Thank you very much. Chair recognizes Member Gilmore Richardson.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I just had an additional point of clarification that's relative to the amount of vacancies and that could translate into the actual amounts relative to Class 100. Meaning, I think I heard a number of -- was it 68 dispatcher vacancies? And so, how much does that translate to in Class 100? I'm only asking because we need to understand the difference in how much that amount is based on the Class 100 underspending based on what we are seeing here relative to this request around the additional 911 hires. I'm just trying to understand what the difference is.
So we do apply a vacancy percentage. We don't assume that the difference will be filled 100 percent of the time. So we'll just have to double check on some of this math. I don't know it off the top of my head, but we'll have to circle back and get you that information.
Right, which is why I was asking because, you know, if it is 68 positions but you know you have the vacancy allowance that you always account for at the beginning of the budget process. Just how much is it so we can understand what that is. Okay?
Thank you, Member Richardson. I believe -- Member Lozada, did you have your hand up wishing to be recognized?
I did. I wanted to shift the conversation a little bit and just put on the record my appreciation for Rob Dubow in the conversation and in his direction as it relates to St. Christopher's Hospital in my District. There are only two children's hospitals in the City of Philadelphia. St. Christopher is one of them. And they have put in a request for $2.5 million. I recognize that there's a challenge in the infor -- there is a challenge to continue to support institutions like this one. However, this request is vital to the quality of life in the 7th Council District. This hospital is the hospital that residents just don't go to for an emergency. They go there just for general medical needs. The hospital has become a teaching hospital in the City of Philadelphia. It hires locally. They generate about $13 million in revenue for the Commonwealth. They have about 36,000 jobs throughout the state. And so, I just want to make sure that we understand the urgency of this request and that we do everything possible to be able to get them what they need now, and we can figure out how we work with them on their future requests. But I wanted to make sure that I put how important this request is on the record as well as express my appreciation for Rob and everything that he's done to be able to get me clarification and ask all of the necessary questions. This being one of my first budget processes, I'm not really sure how it all works, but he has really been instrumental in guiding me through the process and through the conversation.
Well, I ditto everything you said about Rob Dubow and then some. His grimace over the decades I've known him when I anticipate every budget cycle, he does a wonderful job of being a good fiscal steward.
Yes, he has. And I think that he is pushing to find us what we need to be able to support St. Chris. I don't know where we will end up, but I just wanted to make sure that I expressed my gratitude in his work and just making sure that I'm straight and I have all of the necessary information so that we are responsible, right. I understand the challenges and I understand that we can't -- the City of Philadelphia can't be in the business of continuing to support medical or hospital institutions, but this is a -- this is only one of two. And so, I want to make sure we do whatever we possibly can to be able to support the request.
Thank you. Mr. Chair, I feel so bad. I know I'm killing you with the back and forth because I do apologize and I --
Thank you, sir. Thank you. First and foremost, I just wanted to echo the sentiments of two of my colleagues, Councilmember Lozada and Councilmember Johnson, as they raised important issues that I'm supportive of, whether it's 911 operators and the conditions that they're dealing with. We had an indepth hearing about that, a number of Councilmembers including the Chair of our Appropriations and Public Safety Committee has been advocating for this for some time, Councilmember Gauthier. Future Mayor Parker, I remember her being involved in the hearing advocating for this. So this is something that we've been very vocal about. And similar to what was said before, these are quality-of-life issues that we're talking about, supporting hospitals, supporting workers. They're extremely important. Mr. Dubow, just to close out our conversation around ACCT, you talked about the fact that they are whachamachallit, that the majority of the money that they're asking for is wages and that the contract negotiations is when this should happen; is that correct? That's what we agreed upon, right?
Sorry, I didn't hear the last part. I heard the first part about salaries --
Okay. But I mean, are you aware that they're going through contract negotiations right now? Part of the reason why they're asking for the funds right now is so that they can finalize contract negotiations. If they're paying people $12 an hour and if you want to compare somebody trying to catch wild dogs and Councilmember Jones talked about bats and things of that capacity, they can go to Target and make more money at Target then they can getting the bats out of Councilmember Jones' house right now. So at the end of the day if we're talking about some level of support throughout the course of contract negotiations, they're literally going through those negotiations right now. So I'm trying to figure out why is there so much pushback around helping give them the support that they need so that the City doesn't have to absorb this cost of these services?
Yeah. Our process for negotiations and what we do with our own departments is when the negotiations are over, we know the exact amount that we have to put in and that's the point at which we make the adjustment.
So you want them to negotiate a contract for money that they don't have and assume that the City is going to supplement them for whatever costs they absorb and if it's contract negotiations, that they won't be be able to fiscally take care of. Is that what we're recommending that they do?
That's how we do it with all our departments because if we put in an amount and set the amount for negotiations, then we set a target for where the negotiations go, so we always do it after negotiations are over. We don't put the money in before.
Mr. Dubow, you're way more experienced than me. You're great at the work that you do, and the City is in good fiscal health right now so you have to be commended for the job. But I got to push back on the idea that an organization that's a separate entity from the City of Philadelphia that has a separate board, if we were talking about L&I or Fire or Police, that theory would make sense to me. But if I'm the Executive Director of a nonprofit organization and you're basically asking me to negotiate a contract for funds that I essentially do not have, I don't know who in good faith would do that. I don't know what was done in the past. I'm not that experienced. I haven't been in City Council that long, but I think it's very difficult for us while sitting on $900-plus million to ask one of our important partners who do things like getting bats out of Councilmembers' houses to negotiate a contract to actual money -- I mean, to negotiate a contract and be able to come to an agreement for money that they don't have.
And part of what we should do and honestly I didn't -- this came to us today, right, that it was a salary issue. The first I saw of this was today. And I think we need to have a discussion with them to give them assurance that they can proceed.
Okay. And I think that would be good. But, you know, again this is another example of us as Councilmembers having our ear to the ground knowing what's going on, fighting for the things that we feel like would improve the quality of life for the City of Philadelphia and the Administration offering pushback. So I'm going to be more than willing to talk to the Executive Director and other folks involved in the organization, because again I can't have constituents calling us about wild animals and us as City government saying, sorry, it's nothing we can do about it. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Thank you, Mr. Dubow. I appreciate it.
I just wanted to do a follow-up to what Councilmember Thomas just asked. Mr. Dubow, you said this is the first time you all heard about this today?
The pay raise element of it. This is the first time I'm hearing about it, yes.
Thank you, Member Richardson. Member Johnson, is your hand up?
Thank you very much. Just wanted to circle back to Mr. Dubow regarding St. Christopher's Hospital, and I know since I've been around here this issue has come up of support from time and time again. So can you just give me the background history regarding briefly the issues regarding supporting St. Christopher's. And then obviously, it has to be a long-term strategy to help them maintain their overall operations. And part of my thought process regarding this line of questioning is just based upon us coming out of the pandemic and really saw health disparities, inequities across the City of Philadelphia regarding how different communities have access to quality health care services. And obviously, where St. Christopher's Hospital is located, right, and not too far from Kensington, not too far from the opioid crisis and the epidemic that's taking place in that area, right, how this support or lack of support play into how we're addressing the health inequities that are taking place in the City of Philadelphia. So I want to get an idea from you, Rob, because you've been dealing with this for a while separate from this funding request, but obviously looking at a long-term strategy as well and partnership with the Administration and St. Christopher's to see how we can get them on solid footing financially for their operations?
Yeah, and I might be a tiny off on this a little. But I think maybe in FY22 or FY23 when the first request came for -- we had put in that we matched by the (inaudible), and it was part of a plan to bring St. Chris back to financial stability. We got financial projections. We provided the funding. I think we leveraged about another 7.5 million. I think we did a second contribution that also leveraged additional money. We received a request for this contribution right at the very end of the budget process. And what we've been trying to understand over the last couple of weeks is what the long-term strategy is and how the hospital will eventually be able to survive without recurring City appropriations. And so, that was kind of what we were trying to figure out, understanding how important the hospital is, my understanding that it's important for us that the hospital survive. That's kind of where we've been, and Councilmember Lozada --
Yeah, I'll follow up with Councilmember Lozada as well as Councilman Chairman Curtis Jones regarding their Marshall Plan as it relates to Kensington. St. Chris not being so far from there as well as looking at the issue around the work that St. Chris has done supporting particularly children who are survivors of gunshots, right, which is a very, very critical area that needs to be addressed, but really it's also in an area again that's not so far -- I'm sorry, not so close to the level of health care institutions that probably need to be in an area where people need access to. So I just wanted to touch base with you on that particular issue and I'll follow up with Councilwoman Lozada as well as because I think it probably will be a long-term conversation as well, but I definitely will be supportive of all efforts as it relates to at least trying to keep them afloat as long as we can particularly because of the vital work that they are doing that is so severely needed in the City right now. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman.
Thank you, Member Johnson. Chair recognizes Member Lozada and then Member Richardson.
Yeah. I just want to follow up on the fact that they are an amazing partner. They are a much-needed partner as it relates to providing, like I said earlier, not just emergency services but their location is where families in that community go when they don't have health insurance. And so, we need to understand that they have been trying to have conversations apparently with the Administration since June. And so, information, important information that I think should have been asked for earlier in this process was just requested right before Thanksgiving. And so, if we were at a point where we thought we were going to question this request, those documents requested during that time should have been requested earlier in this process. And I'm not really -- I don't want to point fingers. I don't know why those documents were requested so late in this process, but I'm frustrated with that. I'm frustrated with the late request for documentation necessary to be able to come to a decision regarding such an important institution and such an important service that we know is only one of two in the City. And so, again I think that we need to really think about how do we make that whole. How do we ensure that they are fiscally stable because we need them. We need them in the community. The community, that's the only place that some of these folks have to go for medical attention. And so, I want to make sure that it is on the record that they have been having conversation not just with the Administration but with Council since some time early in June.
Thank you, Member. I think, Member Richardson, you're next.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. I just have another clarifying question based on the briefing you had in Line 76. My question is regarding the matching funds from the state for St. Chris. So I thought if they were able to secure matching funds, that we would be able to do our part from a City perspective? Did I miss something there? I thought we had that discussion previously.
If we raised the issue in that briefing about being concerned that it was a recurring cost and at the briefing a member suggested that I talk to Councilmember Lozada to try to straighten that issue out. And that's what we've been working on since the briefing.
Okay. But I wanted to clarify that they did receive the state support?
And so, then for the record have they received any City support?
They have received payments from us in the past over the last couple of years, yes, but not in FY24.
Not in FY24. And does that match up to how much they received in total from the state?
So the amount they would be able to leverage from our payments was more than the amount that we put in. So, no, they've gotten more from other levels of government to leverage what we've given them to more than what we gave them.
Okay. Thank you for the clarification. I'm also supportive of Councilmember Lozada's request.
Thank you, Member Gilmore Richardson. Member Johnson, are you queued up again? Member --
No, sir, Mr. Chair. Let me put my hand down. Thank you very much.
All right. I see no other questions for this panel. If you will be so kind as to stick around. We will now proceed with the next panel to testify. Mr. Glass.
Yes, Mr. Chairman. Our next witness will be District Attorney Larry Krasner.
Mr. Chairman, how are you. I'm standing in today for the DA because of the meeting he's having with two family members connected to a homicide in Philadelphia.
Sorry to hear that, but we will accept your testimony, sir. State your name for the record and begin your testimony.
G. Lamar Stewart, Chief of Community Engagement, City Government Affairs. I'm joined today with ADA or by ADA Bill Fritze, who's the Chief of our Gun Violence Task Force; ADA Kim Esack, who's the Chief of Economic Crimes Division and ADA Jennifer Lin, who's the Senior Advisor on Finance and Administration. So good morning, Chairman Curtis Jones and members of the Appropriations Committee. I'm once again G. Lamar Stewart in today for DA Krasner. I'm testifying in support of the District Attorney's Office General Fund request of $3,480,000 of Class 100 supplemental budget funding to increase resources prosecuting crimes against retailers, crimes again seniors, crimes against workers and illegal gun possession by prolific offenders. The DAO is requesting funding to increase resources to strengthen the DAO's external engagement with community groups, response to constituent and increased communication collaboration with City Council and state legislators and their staff. Additionally, the District Attorney's Office is requesting $500,000 for the Victim and Witness Relocation Fund, a total fund request of $3,980,000. The District Attorney's Office is committed to increasing resources to strengthen the prosecution of illegal gun violence possession cases from arraignment through appeal. We are equally committed to the professional development and well-being of DAO personnel, especially those who prosecute the traumatic aftermath of gun violence. Emphasizing caseload reduction is a critical component to our long-term retention strategies. Lower caseloads for our ADAs to have more time to prepare for litigation, develop and support victims and witnesses in those cases. Equally important, it will allow for ADAs to have a better balance between trauma of prosecuting gun violence and the joy of living in Philadelphia. 1, Juveniles In Possession of Firearms. The DAO will also assign a group of attorneys to a Bail Revocation & Bail Appeal Program. The group will file motions to appeal and handle bail revocation hearings for defendants charged with firearm-related offenses who have pending criminal matters in the City of Philadelphia for those who are repeat gun possession offenders. The Philadelphia DAO will also create an Organized Retail & House Theft Tax Force under the supervision of the DAO's Economic Crimes Division led by Kim Esack. The Organized Retail & House Theft Task Force will collaboratively work with local, state and federal justice partners to investigate, prosecute and hold accountable individuals involved in house theft, deed fraud and crimes against retailers and businesses. Our prosecutors will vigorously prosecute those involved in fencing operations, organized house theft offenders and prolific retail theft offenders. Our team of course will work with PPD's Major Crimes Unit and the six detective divisions to identify, investigate and prosecute those who are involved in such crimes. The Philadelphia DAO will also create a Labor Crimes Enforcement Unit under the supervision of once again our economic crimes division. This unit will be responsible of bringing criminal charges against employers who engage in wage theft, labor trafficking and misclassification of workers in Philadelphia. The DAO is also seeking an appropriate increase in City funding to support DAO's Victim Witness Relocation. During prior years, the DAO received $260,000 annually from Philadelphia City Council via the Managing Director's Office. 5 million for the entire Commonwealth. However, the state has very strict guidelines for relocation and the DAO also often relies on our City relocation resources to prioritize the safety of witnesses, victims and families and survivors who don't qualify for that state funding. We are requesting all increased allocated funds for relocation that will come directly to the DAO to ensure timely and safe transition of survivors and witnesses into the DAO's witness program.
Finally, the DAO is requesting or desires to create an External Strategies & Government Affairs Division. This Division will consist of DAO's Community Engagement Unit, Government Affairs Unit, Public Relations Operations, law enforcement partnership strategies and other outward facing operations. Staff assigned to this Division will support the DAO's mission by building and improving relationships with our community, city and state government, law enforcement and other external partners through balanced programming, intentional collaboration and increased communication. The aforementioned DAO priorities and requests combine additional hires of Assistant DAs, DATA Lab Analysts, Community Engagement & Government Affairs staff as well as Philadelphia County Detectives. Philadelphia City Council's approval of this budget request will position the Philadelphia District Attorney's Office in the 2024 calendar year to work collaboratively with Mayor- elect Cherelle Parker's Administration, our next Philadelphia Police Commissioner and our partners throughout the justice system and most importantly victim service agencies and community groups as well as faith-based partners throughout the City of Philadelphia in prioritizing a balanced approach to public safety and reform. The Philadelphia District Attorney's Office will remain a committed collaborative partner as we join other City departments and agencies with this shared goal in mind, one Philly, a united city. Thank you for the opportunity to testify today. And if you have any further questions or concerns, we're happy to answer them.
Thank you, G. Lamar Stewart. A couple of questions: There has been a 14 percent reduction in homicides as I 15 recall. Give me not scientific but 16 knee-jerk how did that happen? 17
I'm going to 18 tap Bill Fritze who leads our Gun 19 Violence Task Force and his staff, they work to really address the issue of group violence here in Philadelphia.
Councilman, I don't want to take credit for anything. I think --
Can you take and state your name for the record before you start. Our stenographer has to know.
The percent 13 reduction, I would like to take 14 credit for it. PPD would also like 15 to take credit for it. I think 16 it's a combination of what we've 17 been doing throughout the City and 18 our partnership with the police 19 department. So every week we have a representative from Gun Violence Task Force and the Intelligence Division, which is now a part of the Gun Violence Task Force, that sits on the call. We have analysts assigned within our unit who work one-on-one with any cases that we can solve in realtime with those detectives to try and solve those cases. We've also done our long- term investigations in South Philadelphia, Southwest Philadelphia and North Philadelphia. We've tried to expand to do those. And based on that PCCD funding, we have been able to expand to bring more staff on to do those long-term investigations, which I think also creates kind of a chilling effect for that group violence. There has been an increase in the (inaudible) rate over the last few years in the preliminary hearings on gun cases and that's because you have Gun Violence Task Force DAs, senior DAs sitting in that room every single day making sure that those cases get held for court. We train the young DAs in that room to handle those cases, but we oversee them. And then they have that experience to go forward into the CP trial level to try those cases with a little bit of experience under their belt in order to move forward. So I think overall it's been a combination of us partnering with the police department on these long-term investigations, working with them on the shooting calls but also our advanced technology that we've been able to purchase that helps us get into those cell phones, helps us look at social media and helps us try to solve the large issue of what's going on with violence. We also have the victim assistance staff that helps, serves and goes out to the community and also our Community Engagement Team working with GVI to try and send that message out that you will be prosecuted to the fullest extent. And we again, the Gun Violence Task Force, try to take that lead along with Homicide to take those cases and prosecute them to the fullest extent. So I think overall it's been that overarching theme, the additional funding that we've been able to receive, although one-time funding from the state, has helped us to expand to do more.
So I asked that question because tomorrow I will be speaking to the private sector and they are going to ask me about those kinds of public safety concerns while I have the experts available. Some of the stuff I picked up from you and your department at the Crime Summit, which some of the findings will be public next week. We will present it to the 100th Mayor as well as the newly minted soon-to-be Police Commissioner to talk about -- and Commissioner Stanford was a part of it. Some of these kind of recommendations come from that discussion and dialogue. How many shootings? We know about murders, percent 8 reduction. How many shootings? Is 9 that up or down? 10
I can't give 11 you -- I don't want to give you a 12 number that's incorrect, but I know 13 shootings are also down. But I 14 will defer to the Police 15 Commissioner on that. 16
Police 17 Commissioner Stanford, how are you? 18 State your name again please. 19 (No response.)
He seems to be frozen, so I'll wait for that answer. One of the police was quoted in the Crime Summit, every shooting is just a failed murder. So we want to be aware of what those shootings are, whether they're up or down as well. Let me --
Councilmember, I think we have DC Vanore and a couple of other DCs who have also joined and they could help with that response. As they respond, if I can just point to this, Councilmember, and that is the work of our victim service agencies to address the issue of trauma, whether that's EMIR or South Victim Services or Northwest Victim Services, BPP which I believe I saw on a moment ago really treating that trauma, particularly for those nonfatal shooting incidents. Helping those who are impacted not want to -- address that trauma so they don't go out and retaliate. I think when we talk about reduction and violence we have to salute those who are doing the work, victim services but also those who are doing prevention work and intervention work. GVI was mentioned. Of course, Deion is doing a phenomenal job. Organizations like GROW, Donite Jones and Donnell Drinks. Anton Moore down in South Philly, Peter Michael Boone. There's a boxing program out there in Councilmember Kenyatta's area at the Rock Ministry that's doing phenomenal work mentoring young people. And so, as we talk about that reduction, of course there's that enforcement arm. But we have to support the work of those who are on the ground addressing this work from a grassroots perspective.
So I appreciate that insight as we try to find out whether shootings are up and down. Can we move to case closures. Could you for the record define what a case that is closed, what is that definition?
So case closure can mean a few different things as far as guilty verdicts, which is verdict at trial, a guilty plea, when a defendant pled open generally for a negotiated plea, those are three types of the positive case closures. And then you have the withdrawal, that's if the Commonwealth can't move forward with the case, whether the victim didn't appear, whether there's something wrong with that, whether we lost a motion to suppress and we can't introduce a gun or we can't introduce testimony, so withdrawal. And then you have obviously not guilty if we take it to trial and the matter is found to be not guilty by the judge.
So if I understand what it means, there are two types. There is case closure as in we have a suspect that we are prosecuting or apprehending; is that one definition?
And the second definition for just those people in the barbershops would be we found someone, we've identified them. We've prosecuted them successfully to a verdict. Is that a second tier definition?
Absolutely, Councilmember. One you're talking about an arrest rate and the other you're talking about a prosecution rate. And so, of course PPD -- and they're doing outstanding work as far as trying to apprehend individuals who have been involved in gun violence, that's kind of -- that's the arrest rate for a particular category of crime. But with ADA Fritze, he is mentioning once an individual is charged with a particular crime and through the prosecutory process at some point that case has to be resolved some way, whether that's through traditional prosecution in most cases for gun violence or in other types of cases it may be diversion or some alternative. At the end of that resolution, that will be the prosecution rate.
So can you give me those closure rates for each category?
Certainly. We can work with our data lab and get that to you and other members of the Appropriations Committee at some point, Councilmember.
Okay. Because I would think that we would know those right away, but all right. I'm going to go with that. And I'm going to move to a question about witness protection and relocation. I mentioned to you whether the actual recommendations coming out of the Summit is to work on a -- I hate the word task force, but I'll use it in this discussion -- to work with the federal government, state government to find creative ways through PHA Public Housing or HUD to create a labyrinth of safe houses that we can move witnesses to in various houses but also various cities. For the record, is that something we can start to work on in the next fiscal year?
Certainly. I think that there are a number of people -- as we mentioned in our previous conversation, Councilmember, there are a number of people who of course have interest in making sure that those who are victims and witnesses are protected, and I think this is the perfect time for us to think about expanding our approaches around where we are placing those who are victims and those who are witnesses. I think certainly we will be a partner at the table, and we talk about HUD but also PHA and their Portability Unit specifically that works with other jurisdictions across the tri-state area but also across the country and instances where we need to relocate a family outside of the Philadelphia area, so that's something that we're willing to work on and work with you on, Councilmember, as well as other members of Council to make that a priority in the new year.
Okay. Final question: When it relates to our crime lab that many members have supported expanding and providing the funding for, how are we doing with ballistics, processing of other critical data for prosecution? How are we working with that?
So unfortunately, the forensics lab is behind. And so, we are dealing with DNA reports that we're waiting months on, we're dealing with the FIU reports that we are waiting on and that does affect the prosecution of these cases. We've been working with the lab and started a working group here with the DA's Office and the lab to try to streamline these things and see if we can move forward with some of the more immediate needs, but there is a problem and that centers around staffing and requirements of the lab.
Okay. I know my Members are anxiously anticipating questioning you, so I'm going to yield the mic. And we're going to go with Katherine Gilmore Richardson, who seems to be the first one in the queue.
Councilmember, if you don't mind, you asked a question around numbers as far as prosecution rate --
I promised to overdeliver. And so, I was able to get this information from the Chief of our Homicide and Nonfatal Shootings Unit. So right now our prosecution rate or conviction rate rather for homicide shootings is 88 percent and that's as of November 22, 2023. And our conviction rate for nonfatal shootings is 81 percent as of November 22, 2023. So I just wanted to make sure I got that on the record. Again, that's coming from ADA Joanne Pescatore, Chief of our Homicide and Nonfatal Shooting Unit.
Okay. We'll yield the mic. Councilwoman Gilmore Richardson. (No response.)
Hi, Chair Jones. This is Eliza from her staff. She just had to step away for one second. She'll be right back. If you can circle back to her to ask those questions. Thank you.
Mr. Chair, I'm supportive of the work of the DA's Office and the requests that they have and I do not have any questions for this witness. Thank you.
I'm also supportive of this request, Mr. Chairman. I think that those that lie in order that you're looking in the chat there is from the previous panel, so I do not have a question. Thank you very much.
Okay. I got you on the record anyway supporting it. Member Johnson.
Yes. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Just a couple of questions: One, Bill Fritze, I want to thank you for the work that you're doing around the issue of gun violence which is an issue I'm very, very -- which is very near and dear to my heart, so thank you for staying on top of it. Thank you for your work with the Gun Violence Task Force as well as most importantly supporting victims and survivors of gun violence. But I had a couple of questions I just want to ask as we move forward. And I know the last time either the transfer ordinance 9 or the budget process I was very supportive of the Carjacking Unit, right, advocating for funding to expand the Carjacking Unit. So we know that homicides are down. We know that shootings are down. However, car thefts and carjackings are up. And so, can you give us an idea of what you and your team are doing to address this issue just based upon the funding that we started and supported the DA's Office on. So I want to give an idea of how effective are those operations coming along because we did support it and I'll say that y'all can continue to grow in a variety of different areas. And so, as you grow, which I think is a great thing, I think is also prudent to make sure that we're also being effective in key areas that we do request funding for, right. And so, I want to get an idea about where we're at carjacking-wise and car theft? And then also in terms of the Labor Unit, are y'all working in partnership with the Department of Labor with this current Administration? Is the building trades/other service units like SEIU, 32 BJ, what other stakeholders are at the table that actually I would say push the DA's Office or came up with this whole new concept that's generally in the business of going after wage theft? And so, those are the two key questions of mine. And obviously, the last one is the million dollar question: Are we prosecuting retail theft in the manner of $499 or are we addressing anyone that comes in the store that actually takes something off the shelf and are holding them accountable? Inquiring minds want to know.
Certainly. Councilmember Johnson, thank you for that question. I want to yield --
And one last thing, G. Lamar. I see y'all trying to create a whole new Government External Affairs Unit, right. And I'll talk to Larry myself. At least my perspective is maybe they continue to support you, right. Maybe give you additional staff, right. But I think I'll give you your flowers now publicly that you've been very, very effective in supporting the agenda of the District Attorney. And to be quite frank, at one point in time Members weren't responsive to be quite frank with you for whatever reason. And I think you have done a great job of really getting the DA to a point where he has good relationships with members of Council as well as your briefings with members of Council where y'all not working in silos. You're saying you can come and meet with us once a month and we'll tell you what it is we are doing when the cameras aren't watching and ask us questions about the process because we're open to addressing those issues, and that hasn't been the case when the DA first arrived. And I've seen that you have played a major role in helping in the office and actually him personally get to a whole different level in terms of working in partnership with members of City Council. And so, I know y'all talked about expanding. Hopefully, you're a part of that process or at least lead the person as a part of that process. I don't know if bringing a whole bunch of other people and you're not there is going to get the same type of response. When you're calling me on a Sunday night or in the evening saying, this is what we're working on, this is what we're trying to get support on, and I'm only picking up the phone because it's G. Lamar Stewart and I know that your heart and your commitment is based upon helping people. And so, I just wanted to state that for the record. And when I do see Larry, I'll also express that to him. But can you answer those three questions please?
I'll address the last one myself. So that External Strategies and Government Affairs Division will be a new division at the DA's Office that I will be leading. And so, community engagement, government affairs, some of our public relations operations and continue to build on our partnerships with law enforcement, all that work will take place under that division and that's something that will be under my leadership. To your question, Councilmember, I appreciate those questions around what we've been doing around retail theft thus far, the Carjacking Enforcement Unit as well as your question around $500 or less, what are we doing around retail theft in that category, I want to yield to ADA Kim Esack who is the Chief of our Economic Crimes Division. Kim has more than years experience as a prosecutor in this office and she certainly has been doing a phenomenal job piloting a program that we wanted to take on a larger scale citywide. She's been working with some of PPD's finest commanders as well as the business community and retail associations in Center City and in parts of Southwest to get this off the ground. I'm going to yield to her to answer those questions. And whatever she doesn't ask or answer, I'll come back, and the DA has also returned back to the office. I'm sure he may want to give some response as well.
Hello. Kimberly Esack. I'm the Supervisor of the Economic Crimes Division, but I'm also the recently appointed Supervisor of the Carjacking Unit, so I can address all the issues you just raised regarding retail theft, what we're doing there, what we're doing with the new Labor Crimes Enforcement Unit as well as what's going on with carjacking and auto thefts in the City of Philadelphia. So with regard to retail theft or -- I think we're coming off of (inaudible) -- retail theft, we're coming up on years in the making with a collaboration between this office and the police department as well as the community in general and the business community with regard to retailers. We started meetings two years ago to address a significant rise in the mass lootings throughout the City, a rise in retail theft and whatever issues were going on out there in the business communities. An idea was struck to try to venture on a pilot program, but we wanted to work in one small area and then take what we know from that and try to expand that citywide. We had many meetings with various stakeholders in this over the past two years. This past December of 2022 is when it really got up and running officially. I am the head of the Economic Crimes Division, which under me right now I have seven units. So the Financial Crimes Unit, which I usually handle cases such as deed theft and the various large scale economic crimes for Philadelphia. That's one of the units that's under me. We need a place for this retail theft initiative to go. And so, I brought it in with us. But mind you, I only had a staffing of about one-and-a-half ADAs. One ADA was assigned to another one of my units on a more halftime to full- time basis. So we started it just in December of 2022. Since that time I don't have exact numbers yet. We're going to be compiling this data ourselves and we really need to get it built up in a much more significant way, in a clear way to expound to you. But I just know from offhand at the beginning of October we had already adopted into my unit or into the Financial Crimes Unit is where I placed it -- and mind you, we have other work going on there with the deed theft and all the other economic crimes, but pulling this in where we started adopting the most prolific offenders that we could find. C. numbers since about 2018. We created our own list and started basically from the top and worked our way down. And what we found is that we had a significant overlap of what some members of the business community had already forwarded to us about who they believed to be their most prolific offenders in the various stores, and we basically adopted those cases. So from December of 2022, we have adopted -- at the beginning of October, the number was approximately 300 cases overall. I believe it was over 40 defendants that I had adopted into the unit. And what we did for retail theft cases, we're not just taking that case, we're looking to see if they have anything else out there and we adopt all of their cases so that we could really focus in on these particular defendants who are committing the most crime, but it was the smallest percentage of those committing those prolific retail theft offenses, so we can figure out what was going on with them, work our way down to mid-level people who maybe only had a few retail thefts out there and those who might just be starting out to see if we can get to them before they commit to a life of crime and take this a step further, do they need drug treatment, do they need something more and try to work that. Now, again limited resources and we've only just begun the work here. But the police department has been phenomenal in their collaborations with us and their willingness to adopt a program and a protocol that we have done in Center City and has been working very well. We're getting great feedback from the retailers here. The goal is to have this spread citywide to the various divisions.
We were trying to come up with a plan of action and work out all the kinks locally and then put it out citywide. But in order to do that, the PPD as well as this office is going to need resources for that. To answer the question about whether or not we prosecute people who steal less than $500, we absolutely do. I can attest to that. I have multiple defendants who have less than that. What we are doing though is for those who may have been out there and had cases that were less than $500, we have gone back into the system and pulled all those cases together and consolidated them so that a defendant no longer had a case -- had maybe 10 cases across the criminal justice system where one hand may not have been speaking with the other. We rectified any issues like that or on our way to doing so. So we adopted all those cases and pulled them in together. We've been working with the PPD even though it's not something that they usually do in practice, but they have been very willing to think outside the box in order to now consolidate cases and not just put them in on a cite arrest, complaint arrest, put that one through in one division, in another division where the divisions don't connect and they don't speak with one another so the defendants are targeting all over the City and their cases aren't being pulled together. We're working with the PPD in order to make that happen. We've been working with Major Crimes with fencing operations. We've been working both locally and outside the County for fencing operations. I have at least two cases where I have been working with both Philadelphia and Montgomery County on fences and we've been working our way towards search warrants and arrests to take down the fences. As for the Labor Crimes Enforcement Unit, we have been working collaboratively with all of the stakeholders and the people of interest there. I don't know all their names. I'm learning it all anew, but we have a labor liaison here who has been walking me through it and we've been out in the community and in with the unions and finding out all the organizations that want to tell us about all the wage misclassification that's been going on. We're learning as much as we can about it and we're trying to get the Assistant District Attorney to take that position as well as the Carjacking Unit now. That has been expanded so it's no longer just the Carjacking Unit. The auto theft grant was under me for the Auto Theft Unit. It's now being put -- which only supplied one ADA for some auto theft cases, but we're putting that all together and we're trying to get more support for the cases being put in one place. So the Carjacking Unit is now not just going to prosecute carjackings. We're also going to be prosecuting car theft-related cases with various crimes in that nature. Let's say a person is found with a car a month after a carjacking, two months after a carjacking, that case is just not going to go into Trial Division. We're going to adopt that case. Any other types of -- we're new to this process. It's only just started. We're going to go through and see how many cases we have out there and see how many cases that are auto theft-related that we can bring into the unit and then try to expand from there.
Okay. I just had another question. And I see the District Attorney. It's good to see you, Larry. So I guess y'all expanding, right, more and more units, right. And I guess I'm trying to still get an understanding that y'all still growing, but we also didn't totally just mask and settle those key areas that you just talked about. So I'm still trying to get an understanding, like you need more and more staff because obviously you just mentioned that, right. But at the same time we're not totally 100 percent. I don't think we'll ever be 100 percent, but the goal is 100 percent to be effective in again driving down carjackings, the thefts, right, totally having aggressive overall addressing of the gun violence, but now we're in a whole new different area and a whole new unit when it comes to wage theft, which is something I support. I have a bill 7 and I have a hearing around this whole concept of wage theft and being supportive of the unit, so we definitely want you to go after those companies. But I'm thinking of the level of expansion as it relates to us also just perfecting those key areas that you already came and requested budget requests for such as carjacking which again is up, car thefts which again is up, right. Bill Fritze is doing a great job around the issue of gun violence which is the number one issue here in the City of Philadelphia. So I just was trying to get an understanding of why we're continuing to grow when we totally still have a lot of work to do in two other areas in terms of budgetary requests. And, District Attorney Krasner, good to you see as always. Before you arrived, I was just saying I was letting your staff know and also G. Lamar know personally giving his flowers that he's done a great job in terms of helping move the District Attorney's Office forward in terms of the relationships with members of Council, the monthly briefings where you allow Members to come in and see your operations. And I'll just always be transparent that early on that probably always wasn't the case in terms of a relationship with Councilmembers, but I think and I know for a fact that G. Lamar has done an excellent job in being your conduit and working with you to create this type of partnership, not even (inaudible), but a partnership with members of Council as we move the City of Philadelphia forward around the issue of public safety. So I wanted to say that publicly while you were here regarding him because obviously one of your requests is to expand also another area which is the External Gun Relations Community Partnerships area. And him as a solo act is doing a great job, but obviously he just mentioned prior to you getting here that when y'all do expand he will be the head of that particular unit, which I believe is an excellent choice because his passion, his commitment, his personality has done a great job in building that bridge with the District Attorney's Office and members of Council. Go ahead, District Attorney Krasner. DISTRICT ATTORNEY KRASNER: Well, thank you very much, Councilmember. My apologies to everyone that I had to step away. But as I mentioned in a text to many of you, I was addressing --
District Attorney? DISTRICT ATTORNEY KRASNER: Yes, sir.
Can you please state your name for the record? DISTRICT ATTORNEY KRASNER: Oh, yes, sir. My name is Larry Krasner. You'll find it in the media. Sometimes favorably, sometimes not. But my name is Larry Krasner. I'm the District Attorney for the City of Philadelphia. I do want to express once again how grateful I am that Council has been willing to look at the situation we face in relation to public safety the way we look at it, which is that things change. You may have a year when carjackings are way up and then you may have a year where they're coming down. Well, the fact is carjackings, thank goodness, are coming down. On the other hand, car thefts have gone way up. At times they were 100 percent over this year for reasons that we could discuss at one of our briefings. We need to make sure that the District Attorney's Office and every law enforcement partner is agile that we move with the times, that we adjust to the needs. We need to improve every day. And I appreciate, Councilmember Johnson, your being transparent that we weren't doing everything perfect at first. I know that. I agree with that, and I appreciate everything that a lot of our staff, including the great G. Lamar Stewart have done because we really do try to do better every day. We know that we make mistakes every day. But one of the things that I think we have learned, and I am so grateful that Council has been willing to listen, is that there are improvements in areas of focus. There are ways to shift resources and people. Sometimes you got to reduce your nonlawyer staffing and increase your lawyer staff because that's what the backlog of cases requires because that's how we get the best work. Sometimes you got to make sure people who might leave because they're not being compensated well enough to stay, stay longer because they bring all that experience and expertise that is so hard to cultivate. So what we are trying to do is not have an ever-expanding District Attorney's Office. We're trying to have an ever-improved District Attorney's Office that on a day-to-day basis address the public safety needs as they shift but also just is excellent and does excellent work in all the areas of focus. We do not want to drop the ball anywhere. But obviously if you have an area where the level of criminal activity or the number of arrests has dropped, that may be an area where you can potentially shift. There are a lot of really interesting, important and creative things that I believe we're going to be able to do moving into this next Administration. The Mayor-elect, I am excited and encouraged to see that the announcement that Kevin Bethel, someone I have known for 20 years and have known reasonably well for 6 years, is going to be the new Commissioner. I am excited to be working with a Mayor-elect who I think will be open to some of the frankly new ideas that I've been trying to kick around for three or four years. I think that with the help of Council, with the help of other electives, with the help of our law enforcement partners and in close communication with the community, we can really make a difference. But the essence of the reason that we are lifting up certain units is that we can see the needs, we see what is important and we're trying to do everything we can to come at it at levels that frankly are more effective than ever before.
Okay. Thank you very much. And just one last part of my question: Councilman Curtis Jones -- Chairman Curtis Jones and Quetcy Lozada, Councilwoman as well as Jim Harrity are working on a Marshall Plan for Kensington, and your team just clarified the issue regarding retail theft on it and I just want to say thank you. But also, how do we look at the issue around diversion, right? And I would like to say mandatory treatment, meaning I know Judge Presenza used to run Treatment Court, right, where a person gets locked up for selling drugs, hustling drugs, a certain amount, right. They had the option to go to Treatment Court, get the treatment that they need, right. And if they complete their program, their record is exonerated, right. So give us an idea of your position and the things that your team are doing because obviously your position is not to incarcerate people for having drug addiction. I am definitely in the position on that aspect. But however, because there's going to be a new day in how we address the issue of the opioid crisis in Kensington, how do we look at diversion, right, as a part of the strategy and plan from a prosecutorial standpoint, and obviously we have Commissioner John Stanford here on the call as well regarding holding people accountable and trying to also support them in the addiction, and to have this true diversionary court such as Treatment Court, and I just want to get your perspective on that. DISTRICT ATTORNEY KRASNER: So thank you for that, Councilmember. With reference to this approach to Kensington, it's something that I'm deeply committed to. I mean, we have a four-hour meeting which starts at 8 o'clock in the morning tomorrow which will be including Councilmember Lozada and also Councilmember Harrity are invited. This is not the first meeting we've had. We are very dedicated to this issue. There's a big picture here that involves things like the fact that the DA's Office is out there almost solo litigating against big opioid companies in a way that could potentially generate the kind of resources that are not just skimming profits off of opioid manufacturers but that could make a tremendous difference, so we are very, very interested in that. In terms of diversion, diversion is accountability, has always been accountability. Certain forms of diversion actually require a whole lot more in terms of treatment or therapy or education, them being convicted, you know, not really that hard to be on probation with no particular requirements attached to it. So diversion for the right population, and it has to be the right population, in many ways can be more effective than convictions. It makes a ton of sense when it comes to activity that is related to addiction. I am more than happy, A, to continue with our informational sessions to address the concerns of Council, more than happy to do so monthly, more than happy to focus on the topics that are of interest. I can tell you there are some international models that have been more effective than forced treatment, but I can also tell you that one size does not fit all and some people's experience for how they escape addiction or they get away from it is different than the experience of others. So I think as long as we approach this in a serious meaningful way, which I'm more than happy to do with four-hour meetings with meetings of Council, diversion can be very positive. We have some data reflecting that in certain kinds of diversion, the recidivism is much lower than when people are actually convicted of the same crimes. But again, let's be transparent, let's be honest about it. We're picking who they are. We are not going to pick people who pose a danger to public safety or the worst of the worst for diversion because that's not appropriate. We're going to pick that much lower number of people who are fundamentally decent people but have a public health issue or have made mistakes and we're going try to work it out from there.
But ultimately, sir, let me just -- we need to use diversion to increase public safety. And we believe in the track that we're on, but we are always open to the ideas of others and any data, any evidence that would show a different path.
And thank you. And that was a quick segue into my last part of the question. And how are we dealing with -- I had a recent intergovernmental meeting with some law enforcement folks, state level, federal level, obviously Jacqueline Romero spoke very highly of you, was a part of talking about the role that (inaudible) in terms of coming into our City different cartels operating all in the City of Philadelphia. S. Attorney and their administration, right, as well as our Attorney General, right? And I know Bill Fritze is a part of that Gun Violence Task Force, but particularly right now we're talking about the drugs, the ridding of blocks in Kensington, right, and really going off the guys who are really doing what you just said, the worst of the worst, in that Kensington area that's just outright running blocks and selling drugs, open air drug operations. And so, what are your team's efforts around approaching it from that aspect? So I want to do the prevention and diversion standpoint because I know that's something that you lead with, right. You can't just incarcerate our way out of this situation. And so, I got your perspective from that aspect. But from a prosecutorial enforcement standpoint, how are we dealing with the big drug dealers who are selling drugs in Kensington making life like hell for the kids and the families living and going to and from school, to and from the store, to and from the market and is wreaking havoc by open air drug dealing and running of blocks and the running of drug cartels in Kensington? DISTRICT ATTORNEY KRASNER: So the answer to that, Councilmember, is that I can point to some remarkable successes that we've had. One of them was the bust of Kip and Cambria a few years ago which was about getting the professional drug dealers, not just getting the 16-year-old kid with six bags in his pocket on the corner which is frankly how this was handled historically in Kensington, it was grab and go, get the kids on the corner but you're never getting the guy who's making all the money. You're never getting the guy who's actually receiving the supply or very seldom. That approach will never succeed. The most important thing in our view when it comes to drug dealers, drug dealers are in a totally different category than users. It's a different population. Drug dealers should be prosecuted and to the extent they are professional drug dealers, diversion is not appropriate. Kip and Cambria was about 65 professional drug dealers who all met a pretty serious measure of justice. A shut down of a two-generation drug corner that was so good at what they did that they used to rent blocks out to other drug dealing organizations. Two generations they were there. They were taken down with an excellent law enforcement collaboration. Another example, our dangerous drug offender unit, which has been running extremely favorably by a guy named Paul Reddel for years. Spent years, my signature is all over wiretap warrants for a drug dealer who was personally going into and out of Mexico. He was personally dealing with members of one of the leading cartels there. He was involved in drug dealing at such a high level that we are talking about scores of kilos and we are also talking about millions of dollars in cash that were confiscated from tractor trailers, from vehicles during house raids, things of that sort. Now, that went on quietly for two-and-a-half years. It was a case that the Feds didn't want initially. But by the time we had done everything we could to develop it, they did want it. They are prosecuting it and we've had excellent cooperation from Jacqueline Romero, the United States Attorney appointed by our President. I think we have a very solid cooperation with them. S. Attorney. I'm just being honest. That's the truth.
So I think we have an excellent cooperation there, but there are certain things that are concrete that can be done that I believe would revolutionize our ability to really make a dent in drug dealing that's occurring in Kensington. I've mentioned that at times and I'd love to do a session on it if you are interested. One of them is to do a lot more wiretaps. Wiretaps are very, very effective with big-time drug dealing and very, very effective with people who are shooting up neighborhoods. I would love to do a lot more wiretaps. That's something that the Philadelphia Police Department and the DA's Office could do together. We just need some resources that is not crazy resources. I think that there's a lot that we can do. We just need to get away from a kind of law enforcement that is measured by did you make a lot of arrests as opposed to did you get the people who are driving this criminal activity. I think that principle applies to drug dealing in Kensington where it has been a blight for over 60 years, but I think that principle also applies to retail theft. If you're not going to get the people who organized it all, you're not going to get the people who make all the money. Then all that you're doing is nipping away at the tentacles. You're not getting the head of the octopus, and we need to get the head of the octopus.
Well, thank you. Thank you, District Attorney Larry Krasner. I just want to say thank you for your hard work. I do want to follow up with you regarding that. Not now, I'm going to pass on my time. But I probably want to have a deeper side conversation with you regarding the fencing of retail stores to these big shadowy operations that are going on versus the little guys who are going in the store, but we do know little guys need to feed their habit. We do know that the data shows that a lot of folks that got to get particularly the heroin, when you got this, a good way to get it is by going into these stores, taking items from the stores and selling them back on the streets. But obviously, there's a bigger conversation that we had about who they're actually giving these items to and receiving money from and how they're going to get their habit. So I'll find another time off the record to have a conversation with yourself and G. Lamar regarding those efforts. Thank you very much for your time. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. DISTRICT ATTORNEY KRASNER: Thank you. I know for a fact that there are some people suffering from addiction who are given a list of things to steal and paid in drugs. I know that. And that's part of the reason why we've asked for support for organized retail and house theft because we want to get the fences. That's really never been done in Philly, but we want to get the fences because we think it is so crucial and I'm happy to talk to you about that more.
So thank you, Member Johnson. And the only thing I'll say before I turn it over to Katherine Gilmore Richardson is that it's not an or, it's an and, that we need to go after the bigger whales that are putting an infrastructure together to sell these goods, but you have door-to-door salesmen. I talked to a resident of Kensington the day before yesterday I think it was, and they said that they will knock on the door almost like a salesman, you put your order in. By the end of the evening, they will have brought you back that soap powder or whatever. So it has to be and as opposed to or. So I saw on 60 Minutes I think it might have been, a whole infrastructure that is in the dark web that you can place orders for all kinds of things. So, yes, they are important but to the shop owner in Kensington, they need to get to the person that walks in with a bag and shops with impunity as well. So with that, I recognize Councilmember Gilmore Richardson.
Thank you. Thank you so much, Mr. Chair. Apologies for the slight delay as I was tending to the very important Council business in the building. But I wanted to thank DA Krasner and his team for their testimony. And of course, you know my running (inaudible), Mr. DA. And I really thank G. Lamar Stewart for his work and how he continues to work with the members of Philadelphia City Council as we interface with your office on some of these more important issues. I wanted to talk to you specifically about organized retail theft and just organized theft in general, which I think is a huge issue here in the City. One being because now I have experienced this and have a different lens and view regarding theft here in our City. And so, I've never really talked about it but several -- I'd said two months ago now, it was actually two months ago tomorrow, that my car was smash-and-grab robbed. All of my belongings were stolen. And immediately they proceeded to use one of my cards, one of my credit cards at the supermarket, and then I sort of followed them throughout the City as they were utilizing my different credit cards at different stores. So they went from Wynnefield to the Northeast. com and everywhere else. But because of my disdain for this situation happening to me, I followed their footsteps physically and everywhere they went. 2 miles from the scene. In addition to that, I also found other items from a number of individuals, like different 4 credit cards, IDs. So it was very 5 apparent to me that these 6 individuals just go around and do 7 this and then they sort of pick a 8 store that they'll go to that maybe 9 have easy access of gift cards at 10 the front or they are able to use 11 self-checkout. 12 How are you all looking at 13 both individuals and sort of 14 organized individuals around this 15 retail theft issue? My concern is 16 that, yes, we should get the folks 17 that are in charge of these 18 operations, but in addition to that 19 we need to deal with the folks who 20 are actually committing the crime as well. So I just ask what is your thought process there? How would the support for organized retail and how the Theft Task Force deals with the issue similar to the one that I described? DISTRICT ATTORNEY KRASNER: Well, thank you for that question. What you are describing is unfortunately something that has also affected my family in Philadelphia many years ago, outside of Philadelphia actually just about a week ago. And in my mind what you are describing is organized theft. This is a crew who had a plan. When you start to find multiple cards and you're seeing this kind of quick ability to follow the playbook, a lot of people who steal identities and steal credit and steal bank accounts follow which is to run to different jurisdictions and try to move the money as quickly as possible, you're talking about people who know what they're doing. In my mind, that is incredibly important stuff. It needs to be prosecuted vigorously, and I don't really know anybody better at it than Kim Esack and who has been working really vigorously on this. But once again, we've got some homerun hitters in this office who need to deal with pressing issues. This is a pressing issue. I understand that there is this myth out there that the DA's Office does not prosecute theft that are less than $500. That has never ever, ever, ever been true. That is a completely false narrative that has only gotten waves because it's been apparently repeated so many times. This is not how we view this. I understand how incredibly damaging, inconvenient, terrible it is to have your identity stolen, to have your credit card stolen, to have people accessing your bank account.
It may take many, many months to have to iron out with all these different financial entities the problems caused and that's on top of the incredibly inconvenience of having your car window smashed, having to deal with the reality of getting it fixed and having it safe during a period of repair. So everything you are saying to me is very important and should be addressed vigorously. And I also want to reiterate that I completely agree with Councilmember Jones when I am talking about fences, it's not either or. It's yes and. We have to go after things in a way that is individual justice. There are many different levels of types of organized activity that we need to go after. To the extent there is any good news here, the good news is that from the retail cases we see, it's actually a very small number of organized prolific offenders, but they deserve very serious consequences. And people who are doing what they are doing driven out of addiction, they deserve consequences as well. It may be just different kinds of consequences that will actually get them to the point where they are no longer motivated to some addiction to do it again and again and again. We are trying to solve these problems and to prevent these things in the future. But our north star on this stuff is always public safety and taking the individual and turning that individual whether it's by means of a long jail sentence or it's by means of treatment in the direction that will make the public safer.
Okay. Well, thank you, Mr. DA, for the clarification and for the needed and necessary clarification relative to the prosecuting of retail theft in the City of Philadelphia. I just wanted to mention that specifically because now I have a personal experience with that type of situation and just wanted to really underscore the type of work that's happening. And then finally, I just again want to underscore a special thanks to G. Lamar Stewart for his work in interfacing with us from a government relations perspective, and I look forward to receiving additional information in that regard prior to the reconvening of this hearing. Thank you, Mr. Chair. DISTRICT ATTORNEY KRASNER: Thank you.
Thank you, Member Richardson. It's amazing people in the queue, people that are members of the Committee all agree on one thing and that's you, G. Lamar Stewart. So Chair recognizes Councilmember Lozada.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. Thank you, DA Krasner, for being with us this morning and my condolences to the families of the people that you were with earlier this morning. I have mixed feelings about a lot of what I'm hearing, right. While I understand that there are different levels of prosecution that are necessary based on the individual's situation, I represent a community that has been occupied for many, many, many years both by those who are suffering from addiction, those who are dealers, those who are sex workers. There's a lot of levels of occupation that are happening in the 7th Council District. And I think that based on what I've seen over the last year as an elected, I question the amount of diversion programs that exist, not just out of the DAO but in the police department, through the court system. Because at what point does diverting an individual help to improve the quality of life in Districts like mine? Are we looking at or has your office looked at -- I mentioned to you before, right, I got a report from your office where there were different diversion 16 programs, and I've expressed 17 concern about them before. Have 18 you all had the opportunity to look at those diversion programs to figure out which ones overlap? How often is a person diverted? And if the person's coming in who is a known retail theft person, how often does that person get diverted? Because somehow or either this message of the DA doesn't prosecute $499 and below, it came from somewhere, right. So why does everyone believe that? How did that come to be? And how do we change that? What do we do? Because all of my anchor stores in the community have shut down as a result of retail theft. 5 million in inventory and these guys are the same guys who consistently come in and empty our out my shelves. And so, I'm just trying to figure out are we looking at diversion programs? How do we change the perception that you will not be prosecuted? And how do we address the open air drug sales and drug use if the message is that they're not going to be prosecuted? I want to be a partner, right. I want to stop fighting. I'm excited about participating in your information sessions on a regular basis. And I mentioned to you before, I want short-term answers and I'm willing to work on long-term, but we have to do both. Like Councilmember Jones mentioned, we have to do the small operations where we're sending a message to people that they will be held accountable for their illegal activity in the District. And then we can also at the same time work on the large operations. DISTRICT ATTORNEY KRASNER: Well, thank you for those comments. I am going to let Kim Esack address some of the specifics. But let me just say this: The way that we're going to address all of these things is by doing things in ways that work and in ways that are new. The reality, the truth, is that Kensington for over 60 years has been beset by certain problems that have not been addressed by doing things the way that some of my predecessors did, that's just a fact. And things have of course gotten worse not only with the pandemic but with the meteoric rise of addiction to opioids that have paved the way for the fentanyl addiction. There are certain things that have been done traditionally that should be done, but when I come in and say, give me more so I can do wiretaps so we can get big-time drug dealers, that is an improvement over let's just grab the 16-year-old who's on the corner and keep it moving. When I talk about let's not only go after the prolific offenders who do retail theft but let's go after the fences, that's doing more. That is an effort to do more, and it is an effort that does specifically affect Kensington. So I truly, and I mean this very sincerely, I truly look forward to working with you.
These four-hour sessions are four hours that you and I could both be doing other things, but I am willing to just keep grinding away on these things with the cooperation, participation, collaboration of the incoming Mayor, of the Philadelphia Police Department, of our new Commissioner. I'm all in on let's see what we can do so that Kensington can go in a much more positive direction despite the terrible challenges that we are facing. Kim, did you want to add some comments?
Yes. Kim Esack for the record. So I completely appreciate exactly what you've said and I want to attest here and there are others that if you reach out into even the Commerce Department for Philadelphia and the Center City District, they can tell you what we've been doing. Everything you said is exactly the plan that we're going for, both short-term fixes right now for long-term goals. And that is -- it did take us a while to get here, but it is happening. I'll give you one example to tell you how the message is getting out there. There's a lot of misperception. The DA admitted earlier when he came in here that no one is perfect, no one is perfect. The Police Department, City Council, the DA's Office, we all make mistakes at times. There's a lot of misperceptions in the community, the business community, in the DA's Office, in the police department about what we were doing, about what the policy was, and there were mistakes made. And that boils down to people maybe not really understanding what the DA had in mind and needing to be retrained and refocused on what we were supposed to be doing. And when we learned about it, fixing that which is what we have actively been doing. With the police department, retailers believe that the police department weren't showing up anymore. That wasn't really happening. We got together. We all didn't point our fingers. We all came to the table and we said what the mistakes were, what the misperceptions were and we worked it out fixing that, because we could sit here all day and do a blame game, but we needed to get to results. And that's when the plan came to be about starting the pilot program. The hope was actually to be in your community now already. But outside forces have prevented that from happening. That's a matter of resources, changes in the police department, things outside of our control. But the goal is still there, and that is where we are moving to. In terms of how we're going to be treating the people who are committing the crimes, we look at every case on an individual basis. And right now what my protocol is with these retail theft offenders is to finding who they are. In 15 years experience as a prosecutor, I 16 can look at a case and say whether 17 or not someone has a drug problem 18 or whether or not they're being 19 utilized to fund somebody else's 20 business or whether or not they are the person who is running the business, and that is what we're working on right now. And when we get people in who maybe don't have as many retail thefts but they clearly have a drug problem, we're getting information. We've already started establishing that. The police department has in this protocol established an app that they're putting out to the retailers out into the community. And with more resources, the plan is to have people to be able to go out to your mom-and-pop shops in your local districts. They walk in, the officer introduces who they are, gives the phone number, gives app information, makes the connection, the retailers can work together, share information, we're already doing that. Unfortunately, it's been localized in just Center City, but the plan is to push it out. And one final example I'll give you, in all these meetings I said it seems like things changed overnight and the City exploded and everybody just decided that crime was okay and we were going to start stealing from all these stores and no one was going to do anything, but it's going to take some time to change that message. And it already has. Macy's is one of the businesses right next door to us, so we deal with a lot of their cases. One of their loss prevention supervisors there told me very recently how happy they were, because a defendant had come in and it was someone that they knew. They got him onsite arrested and he said, they told me not to steal from Macy's anymore because they're arresting for retail theft, so it is getting out there. That message is starting to change.
It's just going to take a little bit of time. I know myself of the top -- we have already put 15 people who deserve to be off the street and into prison in prison as the most prolific retail theft offenders. They have gotten a minimum of -- DISTRICT ATTORNEY KRASNER: For Center City.
Yeah, for Center City. And some of them were ones that I had pulled from maybe the Northeast Division. I have no 10 idea. We are looking at the D.C.'s. It's just whoever was at the top of the list. We went to the top for the numbers and we just went down, so we already prosecuted those and they've gotten sentences of 9 or 11-and-a-half minimum and state as well. And some of them actually thanked us for it because they needed treatment and they needed time out and they weren't going to stop otherwise. So we're trying to find out who's the drug addicts who needs help and try to divert and who actually needs to get prosecuted, who needs to go to jail and who needs something kind of in the middle and who can help us with these investigations as fences.
I look forward to making sure that the same attention that you guys are giving to retail theft in Center City, that you give to small commercial corridors because commercial corridors as all of us know are the economic engines of communities. And much of my economic engines have been severely impacted as a result of what you're calling misperception, right. And so, I am looking forward to ensuring that the same attention and the same aggressiveness that you are giving to establishments like Macy's, that you give to the local grocery store or the local Family Dollar or the local pharmacy in communities like mine who now have to walk miles in order to be able to get their needs addressed.
Councilmember, if I can just respond to that one piece there. This is G. Lamar. You and I had this conversation on this topic and I want to put on record, just know that this is a conversation that I have with ADA Esack often. Of course we piloted this program in Center City. It was actually supposed to be Center City as well as in East. However, from a resource perspective we just didn't get out there yet. It's one of the reasons we're asking to expand this through this Task Force citywide. And we believe that East and Southwest will be the next divisions that it will roll out in. But one thing that has come up consistent in my conversation with ADA Esack is we don't want a perception out there that the DA's Office only cares about what's happening in Center City. One of the things that we've done through our Community Engagement Unit as well as the staff in our office is begun to do walkthroughs of business corridors. You gave me several addresses around Aramingo Avenue and of course we've been on the Kensington and Allegheny corridor and also other business corridors throughout the City, whether it's 52nd Street, the areas that have been hit by retail theft but other crimes along the business corridor routes. And most recently the looting, we've worked very close with Deputy Commissioner -- Commissioner Stanford and Commissioner Vanore and their team to make sure we were appropriate but also very focused in our prosecution in that regard. I'm going to ask -- Bill 2 Fritze has one other example of someone not in Center City, a recent retail case that was under $500 that I think is just worth hearing, and it will be a short example.
So one of the things I was asked -- Councilwoman, I guess my voice doesn't project as well. One of the examples I wanted to give you, an explanation behind it is Gun Violence Task Force, we brought the Intelligence Division within the District Attorney's Office, but their job and their role really is to provide intelligence to the entire office. One of the things that we asked them to implement when they came over to us was to actually sit in front of that computer system for the arraignment system for the police department. So as each offender comes in and we see their name, the Intelligence Division has been doing a background on that person and they do it on every case. One of the most recent examples for retail theft was from the 15th District. It was an arrest for about $100 worth of items from one of the Walgreens in the 15th. They put a packet together to show not that this person had violent crime, but that this person had a lengthy history, bench warrant history from prior retail thefts, some out of Bucks County. And based on that, they sent this packet. They created a packet just on this retail theft offender and sent it over to the Charging Unit and the DAs and the DA reps were able to argue bail. On a retail theft case over $100, the defendant received $20,000 bail, which they would have had to post to get out. So that is an example of our Intelligence Division that's working. But based on having a staff member sitting there for that limited time to check the system as each offender comes through, so that's one of the things that we developed over there to kind of work with Kim and others to provide that information across the office.
Oh, I'm sorry. I didn't know I was on mute. I apologize. Thank you, Chairman. My question was in the work that you all are doing is there a mechanism in place that allows you to see that this particular individual is a prolific shoplifter who's also in the world of pushing guns, who's also a drug dealer, and how often are we able to see is this person actually being prosecuted, is this person pushed into different diversion programs? And I don't want percentages. I want you to give more real raw numbers.
So I can't give numbers right now. But what I can tell you is that part of this collaboration we've been doing with the police department is to get exactly this type of information from them as well as those in the stores. And I mentioned only one store here, but there were multiple retailers who have been coming to these meetings over the past two years including supermarkets, and the goal has always been to get to the mom-and-pop shops in each of the Divisions throughout the City. There's --
Are you telling me that you currently don't have the numbers where you're able to cross-reference if this individual is involved in multiple wrongdoings?
No, I don't have that right now. But when I tell you what we did with knowing that I had no resources besides just using the one-and-a-half people that I had in my unit that was actually for a whole other unit because this is considered being a task force, I just ran a D.C. No. 21 for anyone who had a retail theft arrest from 2018 to I think it was in 2022 so I could get whoever had the most of those charges and get them first, because anybody who has retail thefts, they're going to be considered a retail theft prolific offender --
Yeah, 5 but I don't understand with the 6 quality of data collection that you 7 guys have there -- I mean, 8 remember, I worked for the DA for a 9 little bit so I know the quality 10 data collection department that you 11 guys have. I'm very surprised that 12 you all can't do that cross-data 13 collection in order to be able to 14 give us those numbers. I'm not 15 going to buy that. 16
We're not 17 saying that we can't. That's the 18 whole reason that we're here asking 19 for resources. Because what I'm 20 trying to explain to you is I had one-and-a-half DAs literally working on this, one-and-a-half. It's not an amount of what you know to be just in your division alone, just the people you represent that's not enough to combat this in the way we want to. We opened up a protocol so that basically I'm getting emails from the various divisions of the police department at midnight telling me about prolific offenders that are out there committing these crimes that I would not know about, that charging wouldn't know the back story on, that information could only come from the stores. That is why the goal of this is to have the same protocol we have in Center City in every division throughout the City that requires the police department and collaboration with them. They have to have officers who are going to be those people -- in Center City we have an officer who is assigned to this task force, so he has made his presence known to all of the retailers so that he's gone in, given his card, gotten information, they can contact him about the offenders. The same plan is that is what we want to happen in your community, to have somebody who is going --
Why doesn't it start in smaller communities? Why do all of these have -- and I'm going to yield my questions because I know I'm eating up the clock here. But again, my frustration goes back to everything that -- all of the investments regardless of whether you all know that Kensington is ground zero for everything, task force and pilots start in Center City. That's nonsense. That's nonsense. 52nd Street is blowing up with crime. Kensington is blowing up with crime. Southwest Philly is blowing up with crime. And you start in Center City where they already have resources, where you know this is really not where you need to be. Can we start thinking about if you're getting this allocation, can we use it in communities that are desperate for the resources?
Can we, you know, the District Attorney just said we need to do things differently. Well, let's start doing things differently but where they will be the most impactful. And I apologize, Chairman and my colleagues, for taking up all of your time. My --
Councilmember, noted. Let me just say this: When we rolled out the Gun Crime Strategies and Prevention Collaborative during the pandemic before we were funded, this is when we were putting ADAs in the police divisions. We didn't start in Center City. The very first division we started in was Southwest. It was two ADAs there, and then we put two ADAs in East Division. Those were the first divisions that we started with. Then we went to Northwest. Then we went to South. The final division we ended with was Center City. But I do hear your point for this retail theft piece. One of the reasons -- and again, we thank ADA Kim Esack. She utilized an ADA who was working in a whole other area of her division to focus in on this pilot because we did not have the resources at that time to bring anyone in for this. It's one of the reasons we're asking for those resources for this particular purpose. And to your question as to when, Council hopefully provides the resources for this particular purpose. East Division and Southwest will be the next division that we roll out. It's something that Kim wanted to do before January --
And G. Lamar and I already had this -- because we do recognize that the police department also has potential staffing issues. This requires to have people dedicated to doing this across the City. So G. Lamar and I anticipating that maybe the police wouldn't be in the position to have an officer designated, I've already spoken with G. Lamar about his group going out to do the walkthroughs, to do the door-to- doors, to let the community know in the East and in Southwest what it was, right, the East and Southwest that we're doing this. We need the shop owners to know that we're here. We'll have their information. They'll have a way to connect to us to feed us information. And once they see that we're serious about it they may open up about this even more so and give us more intel that they may not have wanted to do so before, so that has been the goal and we have already been speaking about that because we do realize we cannot just -- we do need to work with the police on this, but we can't necessarily wait for everybody to get on the same page. But the police, the PPD, they are on board with this. They have been so far very supportive, but we know that we need to do things here on our own.
Mr. Chair, again I apologize for taking up all the time but I will end with this: We can't start initiatives or pilots in neighborhoods like Center City where there's not a whole lot going on. We need to start them in neighborhoods where we're really going to collect data and it's going to make a lot more sense. And so, I am looking forward to continuing the conversation in the future. I'm looking forward to attending the information sessions with the District Attorney. And while I am really trying to be supportive of their request, I want to make sure that when I support these ordinance 16 transfer requests, that they are going to be as impactful to communities like mine as possible. Thank you, Mr. Chair. DISTRICT ATTORNEY KRASNER: Councilmember, you have my commitment on that, that we are going to deal with it in any way, and that means you got to go where there's a need. And I am well aware of the tremendous needs of Kensington and I totally support anyone who is trying to do things that will be impactful and approve that. You have my personal commitment that we will not just be rolling out stuff in Chestnut Hill, no offense to Chestnut Hill, Center City, no offense to Center City, but we're going to roll it out across the board.
Member Lozada, you never have to apologize for the passion you have for your District. And I've said since the Kensington Marshall Plan hearing that until Kensington is safe, no 21 part of Philadelphia is safe. And we're starting there, but we're not ending there. So thank you for your passion on this subject. I also wanted to thank you and your team, DA Krasner. G. Lamar gets a lot of shout-outs. But I wanted to emphasize and thank you for your participation in the Crime Summit and some of the suggestions that have come out of that, those difficult discussions often are going to be solid policy recommendations. One question that came up was under your private Criminal Complaint Unit the question was why isn't it hours. Too often when 14 it comes to protection against 15 abuse issues, there is a need for 16 your office to be open when there 17 is not a familiar status, meaning 18 someone that is related to someone 19 who might be being victimized by 20 someone else, maybe next door or in 21 the neighborhood or stuff like 22 that. 23 Is there any possibility 24 with this new allocation that some of that need can be addressed? DISTRICT ATTORNEY KRASNER: Yes. Well, thank you for the question. Let me if I may take about 30 seconds. So we do have a PFA, which is a Protection From Abuse, hotline. This is for the purpose of protecting people who are in some kind of a domestic relationship. We have a hotline that is open hours and we do 11 respond 24 hours. That number is 12 215-686-9848. 13 Private criminal complaints 14 are actually somewhat a separate 15 thing. Pennsylvania law says if 16 police show up and they're not 17 willing to arrest and an individual 18 feels that criminal charges should 19 be brought anyway, under most 20 circumstances the individual can 21 then go to the DA's Office and 22 initiate charges. Okay. So a lot 23 of what we see happening with 24 private criminal complaint is a situation where a civilian does not feel that the police or potentially the DA, but it's usually the police, are responding in an important way. I am a believer that the private criminal complaint process is important because there are a lot of disputes that don't necessarily rise to the level of an arrest yet often between neighbors or people who know each other. But if they're not addressed, you're going to have that shooting over a parking space like we saw on Christmas Eve I think it was a couple of years ago. So I think it is a good process, but it is not specifically attune to PFAs. That's something that we take very seriously and we do have resources for that hours a day. 22 What happens with most 23 private criminal complaints is a 24 complaint is brought, there's a process for it. And then when it's brought, they are usually handled -- they're resolved by what the court system refers to as judge's pro tem, meaning lawyers who pose as judges and then they will work out a stay away order or something like that. A small number of private criminal complaints actually go to a trial. And when that happens, we prosecute those cases. That is part of what we do. But once again, I am inviting, I'm asking, I am respectfully requesting of all of you, if you give us a list of topics that you'd like us to really break down and give you all the information on in an off-the- record, face-to-face, transparent kind of way, including on this topic, I can get all the right people in the room and we're happy to dig in.
We are as we speak working on an agenda for you, and we appreciate the offer. We do, Mr. District Attorney. DISTRICT ATTORNEY KRASNER: Thank you.
All right. Are there any other questions for this witness, Mr. Glass?
Mr. Chairman, it does not appear there are any more Members in the chat or asking to be recognized with their hand.
Can you call the next witness to testify. Thank you, DA Krasner. DISTRICT ATTORNEY KRASNER: Thank you. Thank you to all of you. Thank you so much for your time.
Yes, Mr. Chairman. Our next witness will be Chief Keisha Hudson from the Defender Association of Philadelphia.
Thank you for your patience, Chief Defender. Are you connected? PUBLIC DEFENDER HUDSON: I am. Good afternoon. On behalf of the Defender Association of Philadelphia, I would like to thank you, Chairman Jones, Vice-Chair Johnson, Councilmembers Thomas, O'Neill, Gilmore Richardson and Lozada for inviting us to testify today in regards to our transfer proposed by Ordinance No. 230767. As the members of this Committee know, the Defender Association of Philadelphia is a 501(c)(3) nonprofit organization that holds the City's contract to provide indigent defense services to children and adults arrested in Philadelphia and to children who are subject to child abuse and neglect cases in dependency court. This dual role as the City's provider of constitutionally mandated indigent defense services and independent nonprofit organization status puts in a unique position. On one hand, we provide essential City services. Last year we represented 37,310 clients at 211,501 scheduled hearings and typically filed more than 250 petitions for early termination of probation. On the other hand, we are not a City agency. Our office is responsible for covering all costs related to our daily operations, including rent, building maintenance costs and taxes passed onto us by a landlord, critical technology needs as we are not supported by the Office of Information Technology and the cost of benefits as we are not a City agency and, for example, are not a part of the City's pension plan. This all comes directly out of our operating budget. 5 million in appropriations for Fiscal Year '24 to cover these costs. Specifically, these funds are needed to address our lease- mandated increases in our rent, increases in our building maintenance and Philadelphia and Center City property taxes which are billed annually to the Defender by our landlord, the costs of mandatory building renovations, the licensing fees for software we need to receive electronic discovery from the District Attorney's Office, increases in our health premiums and the costs of benefits we are required to pay because our attorneys are unionized and they are mandated by the collective bargaining agreement. Unlike City agencies that are often housed in City-owned and maintained buildings and are eligible for ongoing improvements through the capital budget, we fund our office space. We have a lease and a landlord, and our lease includes rent escalations and mandates that we must absorb unexpected costs related to building maintenance and property taxes paid to the City of Philadelphia through our operating budget. This year we have experienced unexpected increases in building operating costs and both Philadelphia and Center City property taxes. These costs are billed to the Defender in total of $350,000. The building operating costs include elevator maintenance, repairs, plumbing, electrical and HVAC maintenance and repairs, building staff salaries, extermination, et cetera. We have no control over these costs and our lease mandates that we pay them. These costs are an additional 125,000 increase in rent we have incurred. We are also outgrowing our current office space. Thank you to City Council for recent investments, which have allowed us to increase staffing levels in our Child Advocacy Unit, our Juvenile Special Defense Unit and Social Services to bring our workload more in line. We're not quite there, but more in line with what is recommended national practice. Our already limited office space cannot accommodate any more staff and we are projecting about a $500,000 per year for the next three years to renovate the space we currently have for anticipated staff. An additional 185,000 of requested funds will cover costs associated with licensing acquired for attorneys and our support staff to participate in the digitized transfer of discovery.
Electronic discovery exchange, while costly, is essential to a more efficient court process, encourages a timelier exchange and eliminates unnecessary delays in court processing associated with questions as to whether pieces of discovery were exchanged. 3 million requested will serve to reimburse us for our efforts to maintain benefits for staff. As members of this Committee are aware, our staff, though they provide essential City services, are not eligible for City benefits. However, our attorneys are recently unionized and entitled to the full benefits of their collective bargaining agreement. This investment will enable us to maintain our staff benefits at current levels without passing on any rising costs to staff and will help us meet our obligations to fund other benefits already guaranteed by our CBA. Our ability to continue to offer consistent benefits to our staff remains essential to our staff retention. This concludes my testimony today, and I thank members of this Committee for your time and the support you have shown the Defender Association of Philadelphia and your recognition of the value-added service and constitutionally-mandated service we bring to the City. Thank you.
Thank you, Chief Defender. And I want to emphasize and underscore the value added to the process of justice the Defender's Association does. I know my Members all agree that you are an essential component for justice in the City of Philadelphia. And thank you in addition for your work in the 100 Shooter Review. Thank you for your work in the most recent Crime Summit, which gives insight to things that we might not recognize from the fact that you advocate for young people in custody issues in Family Court and many of them wind up in foster care and other state kind of institutions and following them almost in a case management style to their adulthood, and often, often some of those outcomes aren't the best. But sometimes you have to look in the mirror and examine the system in order to improve it or correct it. So I appreciate what you and your staff do throughout that, that is often unheralded within the justice process. Case in point of support, we recently announced this wonderful SEPTA no fare system for City employees and you and your Defenders at this point aren't eligible for it? PUBLIC DEFENDER HUDSON: That is correct, Councilmember. We are not eligible for that benefit.
But yet you are asked to travel to State Road and other institutions to defend your clients; is that correct? PUBLIC DEFENDER HUDSON: That's correct, Councilmember. Every day not only our attorneys, but investigators and social workers are traveling to virtually every corner of the City, including all the facilities, the jails on State Road, that we're there every day and often Saturdays and Sundays. But again, we do not get the benefit of SEPTA that our counterparts in the Law Department and the DAO currently receive.
I know that that perk, that service does not equate to good benefits and salaries. But it's the kind of thing that can be the difference in keeping somebody from leaving and going to the private sector; is that correct? PUBLIC DEFENDER HUDSON: That is correct. I had a staff member in the elevator just yesterday asking me what could be done to get a stipend benefit, and that would be $204 that she spends per month commuting to work and commuting around the City for her work, would be tremendously helpful for her in terms of supporting her family.
Is that amount per staffer included in your request? PUBLIC DEFENDER HUDSON: We did not include that in our request. I would like to continue that conversation and I could do that, put that math together. We have around 500 people who work here at the Defender Association. Of course we don't envision all of them would utilize the benefit, but a significant majority would. Thank you for your support Councilmember Jones, Councilmember Johnson. When I brought this issue to both of you, you were in support of us being a part of that benefit so we can certainly follow up with you and get you a number to add to our request.
Would you give it to me and I will circulate it to members of the Appropriations Commission -- I mean Committee. And we do support you, not just in words but also with our treasuries here. So please get that to us. Are there any questions -- PUBLIC DEFENDER HUDSON: Thank you, Councilmember.
-- from members of the Committee for the Chief Defender here? (No response.)
I don't see any. And that being the case, thank you for your testimony. PUBLIC DEFENDER HUDSON: Thank you. Thank you, Councilmember. Thank you, everyone.
Mr. Chairman, that was our final witness to testify for any of our panels. The only thing we have left is our public comment section.
Well, let's proceed. I want to try to power through this. It looks like we will probably recess for a while to go over the fine details of this budget and requests, and we will probably -- how many people to testify under public comment?
We have about 10. We are ready to start when Council Support -- Council Support, are you and your team ready to start linking in our first callers? COUNCIL TECH SUPPORT: We're ready to go.
Thank you. You can proceed. Who's first to testify, Mr. Glass?
Mr. Chairman, our first witness for public comment today will be Ricky Duncan from NOMO.
Who is next -- COUNCIL TECH SUPPORT: We'll reconnect him now.
Okay. Let's move to the next witness. And when these other two witnesses reconnect, we will put --
State your name for the record and please submit your testimony.
My name is Anton Moore. I'm the Executive Director of Unity in the Community here in South Philadelphia.
So I've been a part of Promise, which is an initiative under United Way. And one of the key things about The Promise and the initiative is being able to connect with neighbors door-to-door. We do a lot of community outreach with The Promise. Sorry I'm out of breath because I was getting dressed and ran downstairs when I heard my name.
No problem. Working with The Promise, one of the key things here in Philadelphia that people have a problem with is having that connection at City Hall and having that connection to resources. But through The Promise, we was able to go door-to- door and talk to neighbors about different things that's affecting the neighborhood for those to offer resources. And one of the stories that stand out to me is a young lady who was going through some tough economic times. She was behind on her rent. She had food insecurity. She didn't have food and different things like that. I would not have known that or our organization would not have known that if we didn't get those funds from The Promise grant that went through GPCA. And when I was talking to the young lady, she broke down crying to me saying, look, all the different things that she was going through once we reconnected with her and did our follow-up calls, she talked about being behind on her rent, not having food, child care is killing her and all these different things. And we were able to take those things into consideration, we was able to connect her with resources and was able to help her with some of those things. That would not have been possible without that Promise grant through GPCA. And looking through The Promise, you can't make a promise without a commitment. So I stand firm in being supportive of The Promise getting funded and add additional funding to help connect us with neighbors and residents throughout the community. That's my testimony.
Thank you, Mr. Moore. And I appreciate what you are able to do. When you knock on those doors and identify what those resources are, you are a referral source in other words?
So some of our -- not like a referral source, but we have resources, GPCA has resources and we combine those resources to help those neighbors out. So they'll -- our canvassers who are actually from the neighborhood we have knocking on the doors, they are neighbors of the people that we're actually visiting so they'll give them information that they bring back to us and we'll assess the situation, then do a follow-up call and help with those resources.
That's at a granular level of providing resources to people door-to-door. That's amazing. I would love to talk to you offline at a different time about something that came out of the Crime Summit, and it's kind of called The Promise. Obviously we're going to have to change the name of that contact. But I think to give you some insight, it is to go to -- it's similar. That is, The Promise and GVI had a baby, it would be this. And what it would be is a case management style commitment to youth that said, if you do the following things over the course of the year, here's our promise to you.
That you work all year, that you will be prudent if you need it, if you want to go to school, you'll have means to get there and something to eat. I mean, certain basic inalienable rights that should come and it should be promised to every individual that is high risk that wants to do right. So I'm going to talk to you about that offline, sir, because --
Well, real quick, you know what I noticed too, sometimes we assume that everyone is on the Internet, but it's something about that face-to-face interaction that you get with residents that make you say, you know what, you care. Sometimes people don't feel that through the Internet. When we pull up to their doors and you knock on their doors and you're addressing their concern, there's a different type of feeling that you get. And sometimes it opens you up to other problems that's going on in the community that they might be dealing with when it comes to gun violence.
Good observation, sir. Boots on the ground do matter and make a difference, so I thank you for your testimony. And I will reach out to you to have this conversation. Okay?